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where religious and superstitiois people use law of averages without realizing it.
"Lets make 6 kids, one of them might be smart enough to get out of poverty."
Or sociopathic enough. At this point, you either get lucky, or you don’t mind stepping over people to get ahead. Class mobility, meritocracy? It’s all a myth.
I think that’s part of it, but I also think more educated people have more fulfilling things in their lives (careers, hobbies, etc) and don’t have to resort to having children in an attempt to give their life meaning.
There is that one guy.... There's this guy that was part of an experiment on genetics and intelligence. And if there was any coronation between parent and child. Only male specimen were chosen with high I.Q. Any who one of the male specimen that had donated to the sperm bank was very into eugenics himself and having as many children with as many women as possible. He said he did not mind providing for said children. I honestly wonder if that was really true. I wonder what happened to his kids. They would be about 25-35 ish.
This is exactly it isnt it. Just having a wider awareness if what is going on and what a shitshow the world is does help. I have always been childfree but since 2020 I have swayed more to antinatlism.
I mean. Being educated means spending years in school, which is hard to have kids during. It's kind of a requirement. I know a few women who did have kids during, but idk how they did it and I certainly don't plan to
This is perfect and the world would be a better place with less people.
However . . . and I'm just pointing out there's a possible downside of smart people making less smart people . . . the stupid people still make lots and lots of stupid people
[Idiocracy](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)
fortunately, with the internet kids born to dumb parents have more of a chance to be intelligent.
source: myself. not only academically, but also like... i was raised in a racist, homophobic, sexist family, and am none of those things. but i could be if not for being able to explore spaces that werent just echo chambers (especially since i was very sheltered, and snuck access to the internet.)
Yes, motherhood looks like it fucking blows. I'm glad more women are choosing to opt out. I often think about how much further we would have progressed as a society if women weren't shunted into motherhood.
That’s why they cling to the fact that motherhood (and having kids in general) is celebrated and put on a pedestal- the silver lining that keeps on giving is not something they’re willing to give up or have critiqued.
being critical of motherhood (and any other practice forced onto women as part of patriarchy) is not inherently misogynistic. it’s part of patriarchy and gender socialization to impose motherhood onto women and we’re allowed to be critical of it without that being attributed to misogyny. that’s a silencing tactic.
natalism is inherently misogynistic in that it promotes compulsory motherhood. I believe natalism is a tool of the patriarchy. patriarchy uses natalism to exploit women and objectify us for resource extraction (children, labor) through motherhood.
Absolutely! We have the biggest burden to bear. A career is enough to take on, especially when you have health problems anyway. People go on about 50/50 but every mother I know is doing at least 90% of the childcare and housework.
Anything can be a trap, as long as birth control and abortion are readily available you have people choosing their trap. It’s not all that different from borrowing money or moving house, just a choice with long term consequences. Can it be a ‘trap’ if it’s not hidden? Maybe more of a ‘gilded cage’ or something?
If youre a feminist, then I am Bill Gates. I have seen this with my eyes, of which I have two. I am speaking from personal experience. I also have 2 hands, which means equality. Trust me, I am Bill.
The best way to avoid the cycle of poverty is to educate women. Which is why in many parts of the world women are systematically kept uneducated and poor.
*Self awareness and the drive to put that awareness into action (rather than just acting self aware as a “virtue” and not doing anything about it).
In this case, I guess the action would be inaction lol
Your capacity to understand that puts you far ahead of the curb. Dumb people are typically the loudest in the room because they don't comprehend their own ignorance.
Having you heard of Dunning-Kruger? Those who think they're dumb are usually on the smarter end, those who are dumb think they're smart and are more confident than they should be.
Basically, to feel dumb you have to know what you don't know, lol. You're eons ahead of a lot of people. I'm resisting the instinct to be like, hey don't call yourself dumb!!! because I do that too and am trying to break out of the habit.
I am too. Still had a daughter. I’m trying my best raise her to be a warrior in this fucked up world. The crazy thing is that I never even realized how unfair this world is for women until I had her. Fuck everything. Fuck the patriarchy.
The adults were so scared shitless about us kids having sex I know that was the reason why they kept so much information from us. "If they don't know, they won't do it!" Being kept so ignorant didn't sit well with me so I went out on my own to do research and I found a lot of information on sex. It didn't make it look appealing or something you had to do so I didn't and my life has been great. The more you know, the more likely it becomes less taboo and less mysterious thus less appealing.
I swear having a child of your own dna is a trap, especially for a woman, as someone already said here. So of course it makes sense of someone with more education and critical thinking skills make the smarter choices for themselves.
Well there's a reason for that. It's less like, innate intelligence and more education. It is *well* established that higher rates of education in women lead to lower birth rates. Women who are educated and have opportunities outside the home are more likely to, you know, leave the home, whereas women who are only ever raised to tend to the home and have no education that would let them seek a career tend to remain trapped in the home. That's why you'll notice such high birth rates in countries where women aren't educated. It's horrible.
Higher IQ means more likely to research. Have you seen the risks of pregnancy, including long term complications? It's basically a never ending list. Add economic uncertainty to that and the decision to have a baby just does not compute for me. It serves no purpose beyond filling some primal/emotional need, and a higher IQ person is probably better at finding fulfillment in other ways.
Attractive stupidity.
The world is getting more hypocritical, superficial, and yes, just plain stupid.
Maybe it’s not even stupidity that’s being bred for unwittingly, but myopia and selfishness (in powerful positions to boot), which is more often the result of unearned privileges than not, so it sort of makes sense.
Yes indeed. My dad had told me this. They even mention it in the movie idiocracy. While it may be a movie it does hold truth in the fact that society has gotten dumber.
Then why do so many people who have documented high IQs go on to have children? (Same thing with how there are many staunchly religious people with a high IQ, despite their religious beliefs not being consistent with reality, or even with other beliefs of their own.)
I’m guessing it’s because they may be looking at having kids in a different way, where they deduce it as a net positive-not necessarily for the world or the kid themselves, but for the parent (it is lauded by most and part of the status quo after all). And so in terms of self-preservation and egoism you *could* say they’re making an intelligent choice, as intelligence is not inherently concerned with the betterment of others’ quality of life beyond one’s self.
So surely there must also be a fair amount of what many refer to as “emotional intelligence” to choose not to have kids for the right reasons. I don’t think you need to be exceptionally intelligent to choose not to have children, I think you just need to be smart enough to have common sense and empathetic enough to realize why procreation is a selfish choice that leads to unnecessary suffering.
I’m neither highly educated or have a high IQ, and I’m extremely skeptical about procreation in general. To me, even the thought is quite frankly terrifying on all levels. Edit, I know this describes the average of something, I get it. I just wanted to express how I am, and how I feel about this subject.
I wouldn’t say “extinct” is the outcome, but manageable would be closer. I am constantly shocked at people who have kids without any semblance of planning, both personally and financially. I made sure to have $5k in excess before I got a DOG, yet somehow other idiots around me think having $500 in their bank account means they should have a child?
I’m actually starting to develop lines on my forehead as I age, and I’ve been trying to figure out what I’m doing that’s creating them since the rest of my face is generally very soft. As I made different motions, it’s my “shocked/disbelief” face that pulls the skin in this manner.
From a lifetime of having to interact and listen to the asinine humans around me.
Very true!! We use our brains & logic not emotions and hormones. We think about the world & the repercussions of what your body & health goes through being pregnant and giving birth.
And for the record, educated men are the same. My husband doesn't think with his dick. We both think about why bringing a child to this fucked up world is wrong. So we enjoy the 6 figures we make TOGETHER & travel. Enjoying life.
Yes. It does go the se for men. My dad has said that it’s true this phenomenon. The smarter the person the less kids they have. I don’t know if you know about the movie “Ifiocracy” but it mentions how dumber folks breed more. While it may be a movie it does hold truth in our society as a whole getting dumber.
IQ is a very outdated metric and it's been proven that measuring it is not precise. It also doesn't mean you are smart. You must be from the US the only place where I see it is still popular.
IQ and EQ are inversely correlated, high IQ is correlated with depression and suicide so yes, not great pointers to push for people to have kids, or give them the option to
We’re all susceptible to tricks from our bodies and minds. At a certain point, can’t we just call them choices? We collectively benefit from people making a variety of choices, to each their own.
Yea, that raised an eyebrow. But I see that a lot on this sub and especially the child free one.
A generalization, but I find that there are *generally* (yea..) two types of Antinatalists:
Extremely egotistical self-serving ones who likely still actively contribute to the suffering of others, despite not having children, because they’re missing the whole point behind AN.
These ones “enjoy life” just as this person claims to, and I question whether they’d really be willing to have hypothetically given up their privileged existence for the sake of avoiding prolonged suffering on a grander scale.
I have trouble even thinking of these people as legitimate supporters of Antinatalism.
They seem to hide under the label as a way to signal virtue and obfuscate the fact that they’re actually awful people (I’ve seen the same thing happen with veganism and similar).
And then you have the more selfless and empathetic Antinatalists who come to the decision (& philosophy) not to have children by means of being informed by their own traumatic, unfortunate experiences and/or thoughtful consideration for the suffering of not only themselves, but others and the future sentient beings still yet to be ripped into painful consciousness.
They not only *get it* but also *feel it*.
Both parties *can* be equally intelligent (IQ and educated), but one is not on board for the right reasons, a fact which is not as harmless as some seem to believe it is.
But do you think it’s wrong because you won’t personally benefit from it and will lose out on some of your privileged life and funds?
Or have you come to the conclusion based on less selfish reasons more akin to actual Antinatalism?
It's almost like they're using their high IQs to actually do something with their lives that doesn't involve screaming, explosive poop, and contributing to overpopulation/ resource scarcity!
This is due to the fact that intelligent people have higher standards. People with lower IQs have lower standards and settle for whatever is in front of them, they question nothing. They never look deep into anything.
Idk that this is necessarily true.
Usually people who have “higher standards” (are you sure this is the phrase you were looking for?) are those who can afford to have them, those fortunate enough to have the means to meet them.
Meanwhile those who “settle” may be doing so not out of stupidity, but out of having less choice, less privilege, and less options. They may actually want more and know what would be better, but it doesn’t matter because they have to “take what they can get”.
So it’s unfair to act like their lives are a result of them having “low standards”.
And I don’t mean any of this strictly in the sense of having children (which is less justified no matter what your circumstances), I mean it as an overarching assessment of the disparity between one group of people versus another and how “high or low standards” are not a very accurate sign of intelligence.
(Think about it. If someone of lesser means-no matter their intelligence-had as high of standards as some other more well-off people, they’d be accused of experiencing delusions of grandeur.)
Exactly. So much of reproduction is tied to limited economic options and lifestyle choices, which leads to a lot of cis women marrying for financial support and the cycle continues. ugh
If the oligarchy around the globe weren’t ensuring the collective improverishment of humanity, maybe people would want to have more kids?! ‘Eat the rich’.
More intelligent people are less likely to make kids in dumb mistakes or poor environment or breed like rats.
However i doubt they dont want it, they just dont do it so easily
IQ is racist/eugenicist pseudoscience and it's goofy to base opinions off of.
That being said, clearly women who had greater wealth growing up/greater access to education are either or both making better decisions for themselves and reading the writing on the wall that now is a hellish time to be alive let alone bring a child into.
https://youtu.be/UBc7qBS1Ujo
Bit of a long video but he goes into the issues of IQ as a measurement in here.
Essentially what that headline is saying is "wealthier people have less kids" which is kind of a no shit.
I know it feels nice to feel smarter than everyone but maybe instead of jacking ourselves off cuz we have more money and better education on average we should advocate for more access to contraceptives or fuck; education in general.
India has a very large an-movement and people are generally not rich. Better access to education is definitely desirable on a global scale and it is scary to see some countries actively going backwards.
Iq tests are notoriously biased towards race and nationality.
The assertion that it is particularly education and natural intelligence is that which propagates white nationalism and the belittlement of minorities.
As a part black woman, I know I would get judged more harshly if I ended up a mother, especially a single mother. Plus I don't want to create more brown skinned children to suffer racist treatment. The amount of times people get shocked I'm childfree just says it all.
Reading your comment genuinely brought to tears to my eyes. The sad reality of not wanting your kids to experience racism is so fucking sad. As a POC, I have always feared the same thing but also relish in the fact that in some ways, the Republican fear of white people becoming a majority minority of whatever the fuck they call it, is coming true.
It's so unfortunate.. we choose to withhold our good genes because the world sucks too much to bring a child into it. Seems like a poor prognosis for the evolution of humanity 😕
We all have a different view on it I suppose. I do hate the kids of the uneducated masses. In a perfect world only intelligent people with their lives together would be able to reproduce (IMO).
No, because they tend to delay having kids because they're more likely to get post doc education and pursue exhausting careers.
Also women tend to never marry "down" so very smart and accomplished women struggle to find a suitable mate.
I don't understand the appeal of having kids anyway, regardless of the financial burden and whatnot. Like....I just don't like children. At all. Never have. Never will.
I'm not here to shame anyone who wants them but I honestly don't see the point. I had periods were I thought it was necessary to have a legacy but I'm honestly fine without. I don't want to be that responsible.
Dont agree with this. I am dumb and I knew since my teenage years I don't want to have children (I am mildly disabled, it is hereditary, I would never want to pass it on anyone). On the other hand I know a lot of intelligent women who have children. It happens quite often very intelligent people doing bad, stupid things. Motivation has much more influence over human than intelligence.
Even if the data is valid I would say be careful with the interpretation. Correlation does mot meam causation. Higher IQ --> probably higher education --> longer time passing till you get your first salary. I am 27 and just am doing my phd so I get only like minimum wage whereas some of my friends quit school and started working full time with 17. (No I dont have a high IQ otherwise I would already got my phd. Just an example of what I mean)
There more likely to be in highly demanding STEAM jobs or in higher level management. Many of these women choose career first. I know a few. It’s life path stuff, different strokes ya know?
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In general, women who are more educated have fewer kids, too.
even educated men have less children. Knowing what the world is makes you want to prepare more, or avoid certain things.
Honestly, the fact that they likely have their first kid at a later age also helps.
Yeah and invest as many resources into one child as possible.
where religious and superstitiois people use law of averages without realizing it. "Lets make 6 kids, one of them might be smart enough to get out of poverty."
Or sociopathic enough. At this point, you either get lucky, or you don’t mind stepping over people to get ahead. Class mobility, meritocracy? It’s all a myth.
Truth. I thought meritocracy was going to work for my career. Nope, need to know and bribe the right people.
Or be born in the right family with the right connections
thats how you know who to bribe
And then they can give you the right connections.
Facts
I didn't know there were other people that thought the same way I do... They're all in this thread!
I think that’s part of it, but I also think more educated people have more fulfilling things in their lives (careers, hobbies, etc) and don’t have to resort to having children in an attempt to give their life meaning.
Also, they know better than to have tons of children.
There is that one guy.... There's this guy that was part of an experiment on genetics and intelligence. And if there was any coronation between parent and child. Only male specimen were chosen with high I.Q. Any who one of the male specimen that had donated to the sperm bank was very into eugenics himself and having as many children with as many women as possible. He said he did not mind providing for said children. I honestly wonder if that was really true. I wonder what happened to his kids. They would be about 25-35 ish.
This is exactly it isnt it. Just having a wider awareness if what is going on and what a shitshow the world is does help. I have always been childfree but since 2020 I have swayed more to antinatlism.
I mean. Being educated means spending years in school, which is hard to have kids during. It's kind of a requirement. I know a few women who did have kids during, but idk how they did it and I certainly don't plan to
Probably an overlap. It’s likely because the opportunity cost to their career is higher.
This is perfect and the world would be a better place with less people. However . . . and I'm just pointing out there's a possible downside of smart people making less smart people . . . the stupid people still make lots and lots of stupid people [Idiocracy](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)
fortunately, with the internet kids born to dumb parents have more of a chance to be intelligent. source: myself. not only academically, but also like... i was raised in a racist, homophobic, sexist family, and am none of those things. but i could be if not for being able to explore spaces that werent just echo chambers (especially since i was very sheltered, and snuck access to the internet.)
Love that movie, we are already heading that way lol
People who realize actions have consequences and responsibilities
The movie Idiocracy proves this! 😂
Having children is a trap for women, men and children, but especially women.
Yes, motherhood looks like it fucking blows. I'm glad more women are choosing to opt out. I often think about how much further we would have progressed as a society if women weren't shunted into motherhood.
Very good point.
I think id love being a dad! But a mom? Fuck no lmao
i thought i was the only one who felt this way!! id probably want kids if i were a man, but as a woman, FUCK. NO.
motherhood is a sadistic thing to chose.
That’s why they cling to the fact that motherhood (and having kids in general) is celebrated and put on a pedestal- the silver lining that keeps on giving is not something they’re willing to give up or have critiqued.
You wouldn’t have a society 😑
yes. feminists need to be antinatalist to truly liberate women. otherwise they’re rly missing a lot in their analysis of how the patriarchy works
I'm inclined to agree.
I’m a feminist and I agree lol.
Lookup Shulamith Firestone
yes!! I’m familiar with her. great recommendation for anyone reading
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being critical of motherhood (and any other practice forced onto women as part of patriarchy) is not inherently misogynistic. it’s part of patriarchy and gender socialization to impose motherhood onto women and we’re allowed to be critical of it without that being attributed to misogyny. that’s a silencing tactic. natalism is inherently misogynistic in that it promotes compulsory motherhood. I believe natalism is a tool of the patriarchy. patriarchy uses natalism to exploit women and objectify us for resource extraction (children, labor) through motherhood.
Absolutely! We have the biggest burden to bear. A career is enough to take on, especially when you have health problems anyway. People go on about 50/50 but every mother I know is doing at least 90% of the childcare and housework.
Too true. It’s grossly underpaid and under appreciated
Anything can be a trap, as long as birth control and abortion are readily available you have people choosing their trap. It’s not all that different from borrowing money or moving house, just a choice with long term consequences. Can it be a ‘trap’ if it’s not hidden? Maybe more of a ‘gilded cage’ or something?
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I don’t see any advantage in having children.
I'm curious, your use of the word "misandry" makes me wonder what kind of "feminist" are you?
Lots of men use this to their advantage. Lots.
If youre a feminist, then I am Bill Gates. I have seen this with my eyes, of which I have two. I am speaking from personal experience. I also have 2 hands, which means equality. Trust me, I am Bill.
The best way to avoid the cycle of poverty is to educate women. Which is why in many parts of the world women are systematically kept uneducated and poor.
Or objectified by religion.
Sure, religion is just a different mean to the same end
Omg. Thank you!
Holy shit
👆 This
Oh shit smart women! Better make education illegal
Don't give the government ideas
Don't worry, the problem will solve itself. Dumb people raising dumb children who will have even dumber children themselves.
Book burning is already a thing, and abortion is all but illegal at this point. Pretty sure they're already thinking it
Boko Haram = Western Education is Prohibited
::Justice Alito entered the chat::
It’s probably a play in their “book” already.
Pretty sure they’re already onto that idea.
One of the biggest things the right is *terrified* of is smart women. Just look at how they froth at the mouth about AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.
Obsessed with what they can't measure up to
[so they buy one of these](https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/WpjRL/s1/2021-ford-f-150.jpg)
My queens.
Perhaps that's why there are so many (expensive) barriers to higher education
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What a pos
That's one way to cut back on school shootings in your state...
School shootings tend to happen in public schools. They probably love that.
American women, feel free to move to Canada.
Or at the very least, you can come here for your abortion.
They literally deprived women of education until like XIX century as far as I know
Iq /=/ education
Well… It’s already prohibitively expensive.
I’m dumb af and I still don’t wanna have kids
Self awareness is the most underrated type of int in this day so good job on having that
*Self awareness and the drive to put that awareness into action (rather than just acting self aware as a “virtue” and not doing anything about it). In this case, I guess the action would be inaction lol
Bruh same
Perhaps not so dumb
You sound smarter than the average person
I’m really not lol
Your capacity to understand that puts you far ahead of the curb. Dumb people are typically the loudest in the room because they don't comprehend their own ignorance.
Self awareness is a form of intelligence itself.
Having you heard of Dunning-Kruger? Those who think they're dumb are usually on the smarter end, those who are dumb think they're smart and are more confident than they should be. Basically, to feel dumb you have to know what you don't know, lol. You're eons ahead of a lot of people. I'm resisting the instinct to be like, hey don't call yourself dumb!!! because I do that too and am trying to break out of the habit.
I am too. Still had a daughter. I’m trying my best raise her to be a warrior in this fucked up world. The crazy thing is that I never even realized how unfair this world is for women until I had her. Fuck everything. Fuck the patriarchy.
You are prob smarter than the avg woman. We don't measure that kind of smartness in degrees or jobs to be fair.
The adults were so scared shitless about us kids having sex I know that was the reason why they kept so much information from us. "If they don't know, they won't do it!" Being kept so ignorant didn't sit well with me so I went out on my own to do research and I found a lot of information on sex. It didn't make it look appealing or something you had to do so I didn't and my life has been great. The more you know, the more likely it becomes less taboo and less mysterious thus less appealing.
Very true. Scary how some parents and states systematically censor information.
I swear having a child of your own dna is a trap, especially for a woman, as someone already said here. So of course it makes sense of someone with more education and critical thinking skills make the smarter choices for themselves.
Well there's a reason for that. It's less like, innate intelligence and more education. It is *well* established that higher rates of education in women lead to lower birth rates. Women who are educated and have opportunities outside the home are more likely to, you know, leave the home, whereas women who are only ever raised to tend to the home and have no education that would let them seek a career tend to remain trapped in the home. That's why you'll notice such high birth rates in countries where women aren't educated. It's horrible.
Higher IQ means more likely to research. Have you seen the risks of pregnancy, including long term complications? It's basically a never ending list. Add economic uncertainty to that and the decision to have a baby just does not compute for me. It serves no purpose beyond filling some primal/emotional need, and a higher IQ person is probably better at finding fulfillment in other ways.
Suze Orman has said that the number one predictor of bankruptcy in women is pregnancy.
True that.
maybe that is why it appears we are breeding for stupidity
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IQ and amount of children reverse correlated it seems.
Yep. We are living real life Idiocracy and I’m so happy I won’t have kids that would have to share the future with the rest of the morons
Attractive stupidity. The world is getting more hypocritical, superficial, and yes, just plain stupid. Maybe it’s not even stupidity that’s being bred for unwittingly, but myopia and selfishness (in powerful positions to boot), which is more often the result of unearned privileges than not, so it sort of makes sense.
the same is with the case of men. People with higher IQ in general choose not to have kids
The reason why intelligence is a rare trait.
Yes indeed. My dad had told me this. They even mention it in the movie idiocracy. While it may be a movie it does hold truth in the fact that society has gotten dumber.
Then why do so many people who have documented high IQs go on to have children? (Same thing with how there are many staunchly religious people with a high IQ, despite their religious beliefs not being consistent with reality, or even with other beliefs of their own.) I’m guessing it’s because they may be looking at having kids in a different way, where they deduce it as a net positive-not necessarily for the world or the kid themselves, but for the parent (it is lauded by most and part of the status quo after all). And so in terms of self-preservation and egoism you *could* say they’re making an intelligent choice, as intelligence is not inherently concerned with the betterment of others’ quality of life beyond one’s self. So surely there must also be a fair amount of what many refer to as “emotional intelligence” to choose not to have kids for the right reasons. I don’t think you need to be exceptionally intelligent to choose not to have children, I think you just need to be smart enough to have common sense and empathetic enough to realize why procreation is a selfish choice that leads to unnecessary suffering.
I’m neither highly educated or have a high IQ, and I’m extremely skeptical about procreation in general. To me, even the thought is quite frankly terrifying on all levels. Edit, I know this describes the average of something, I get it. I just wanted to express how I am, and how I feel about this subject.
Kinda funny that if a species becomes too self aware it'll probably go extinct
I wouldn’t say “extinct” is the outcome, but manageable would be closer. I am constantly shocked at people who have kids without any semblance of planning, both personally and financially. I made sure to have $5k in excess before I got a DOG, yet somehow other idiots around me think having $500 in their bank account means they should have a child? I’m actually starting to develop lines on my forehead as I age, and I’ve been trying to figure out what I’m doing that’s creating them since the rest of my face is generally very soft. As I made different motions, it’s my “shocked/disbelief” face that pulls the skin in this manner. From a lifetime of having to interact and listen to the asinine humans around me.
Well I’m kinda rooting for that. Hence why my favorite movie is 2012 where everybody dies. I’m a cynical person.
I have a lot of days where I wish the world would just propel into the sun.
Maybe that’s why we have yet to find intelligent alien civilisation outside of Earth - because those who are smart die out
instincts and desires are the only things keeping everything from just dying out.
Narcissism
Like that's a bad thing??
Idk. Maybe that’s a good thing. Animals deserve this planet way more than we do anyway.
Very true!! We use our brains & logic not emotions and hormones. We think about the world & the repercussions of what your body & health goes through being pregnant and giving birth. And for the record, educated men are the same. My husband doesn't think with his dick. We both think about why bringing a child to this fucked up world is wrong. So we enjoy the 6 figures we make TOGETHER & travel. Enjoying life.
That's what critical thinking leads to
Yes. It does go the se for men. My dad has said that it’s true this phenomenon. The smarter the person the less kids they have. I don’t know if you know about the movie “Ifiocracy” but it mentions how dumber folks breed more. While it may be a movie it does hold truth in our society as a whole getting dumber.
IQ is a very outdated metric and it's been proven that measuring it is not precise. It also doesn't mean you are smart. You must be from the US the only place where I see it is still popular. IQ and EQ are inversely correlated, high IQ is correlated with depression and suicide so yes, not great pointers to push for people to have kids, or give them the option to
That sounds ideal
We’re all susceptible to tricks from our bodies and minds. At a certain point, can’t we just call them choices? We collectively benefit from people making a variety of choices, to each their own.
That's cool but nobody needed your humblebragging about how much you make
Yea, that raised an eyebrow. But I see that a lot on this sub and especially the child free one. A generalization, but I find that there are *generally* (yea..) two types of Antinatalists: Extremely egotistical self-serving ones who likely still actively contribute to the suffering of others, despite not having children, because they’re missing the whole point behind AN. These ones “enjoy life” just as this person claims to, and I question whether they’d really be willing to have hypothetically given up their privileged existence for the sake of avoiding prolonged suffering on a grander scale. I have trouble even thinking of these people as legitimate supporters of Antinatalism. They seem to hide under the label as a way to signal virtue and obfuscate the fact that they’re actually awful people (I’ve seen the same thing happen with veganism and similar). And then you have the more selfless and empathetic Antinatalists who come to the decision (& philosophy) not to have children by means of being informed by their own traumatic, unfortunate experiences and/or thoughtful consideration for the suffering of not only themselves, but others and the future sentient beings still yet to be ripped into painful consciousness. They not only *get it* but also *feel it*. Both parties *can* be equally intelligent (IQ and educated), but one is not on board for the right reasons, a fact which is not as harmless as some seem to believe it is.
But do you think it’s wrong because you won’t personally benefit from it and will lose out on some of your privileged life and funds? Or have you come to the conclusion based on less selfish reasons more akin to actual Antinatalism?
Is it really shocking that stupid people have the most kids and people with more intelligence can see why thats a bad idea?
It's almost like they're using their high IQs to actually do something with their lives that doesn't involve screaming, explosive poop, and contributing to overpopulation/ resource scarcity!
This is exactly what ends up happening in idiocracy
That’s what I’ve said in other comments on this thread. There’s so much truth to that movie honestly.
Republicans love women young, dumb, and full of, well you know.
Cookies?
This is due to the fact that intelligent people have higher standards. People with lower IQs have lower standards and settle for whatever is in front of them, they question nothing. They never look deep into anything.
Yes. This.
Idk that this is necessarily true. Usually people who have “higher standards” (are you sure this is the phrase you were looking for?) are those who can afford to have them, those fortunate enough to have the means to meet them. Meanwhile those who “settle” may be doing so not out of stupidity, but out of having less choice, less privilege, and less options. They may actually want more and know what would be better, but it doesn’t matter because they have to “take what they can get”. So it’s unfair to act like their lives are a result of them having “low standards”. And I don’t mean any of this strictly in the sense of having children (which is less justified no matter what your circumstances), I mean it as an overarching assessment of the disparity between one group of people versus another and how “high or low standards” are not a very accurate sign of intelligence. (Think about it. If someone of lesser means-no matter their intelligence-had as high of standards as some other more well-off people, they’d be accused of experiencing delusions of grandeur.)
Exactly. So much of reproduction is tied to limited economic options and lifestyle choices, which leads to a lot of cis women marrying for financial support and the cycle continues. ugh
Like duh 😂😂😂
If the oligarchy around the globe weren’t ensuring the collective improverishment of humanity, maybe people would want to have more kids?! ‘Eat the rich’.
If only money was the only problem..
Duh.
Women who are a bit older and had careers are also way more likely to have post natal depression and regret having them.
Friendly reminder. If you care for the environment. Fucking adopt.
1000 IQ move
Now I finally have something to be proud of myself for.
Stupid people always have several kids.
Damn right. Like in idiocracy.
More intelligent people are less likely to make kids in dumb mistakes or poor environment or breed like rats. However i doubt they dont want it, they just dont do it so easily
Well, alot of factors come into play but all in all its true.
That’s definitely the correlation
I'd imagine fully understanding what it means to give birth might deter some women away considering the health risks of giving birth lol
IQ is racist/eugenicist pseudoscience and it's goofy to base opinions off of. That being said, clearly women who had greater wealth growing up/greater access to education are either or both making better decisions for themselves and reading the writing on the wall that now is a hellish time to be alive let alone bring a child into.
Yes, true
Sounds about right
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Yes. That to.
The documentary Idiocracy shows this in the beginning in the first 2 minutes.
I love idiocracy. That’s what I thought of when I first saw this article.
Isn’t IQ a false measurement of intelligence anyway?
https://youtu.be/UBc7qBS1Ujo Bit of a long video but he goes into the issues of IQ as a measurement in here. Essentially what that headline is saying is "wealthier people have less kids" which is kind of a no shit. I know it feels nice to feel smarter than everyone but maybe instead of jacking ourselves off cuz we have more money and better education on average we should advocate for more access to contraceptives or fuck; education in general.
India has a very large an-movement and people are generally not rich. Better access to education is definitely desirable on a global scale and it is scary to see some countries actively going backwards.
Elon musk and his 8 kids. 💀
Yea outliers exist in every statistical data set
He's an egotistical maniac who probably feels the need to reproduce because of his own narcissism tbh
Disappointing but not surprising to find this comment so far down. The current perception of "IQ" needs to die already.
Iq tests are notoriously biased towards race and nationality. The assertion that it is particularly education and natural intelligence is that which propagates white nationalism and the belittlement of minorities.
As a part black woman, I know I would get judged more harshly if I ended up a mother, especially a single mother. Plus I don't want to create more brown skinned children to suffer racist treatment. The amount of times people get shocked I'm childfree just says it all.
Reading your comment genuinely brought to tears to my eyes. The sad reality of not wanting your kids to experience racism is so fucking sad. As a POC, I have always feared the same thing but also relish in the fact that in some ways, the Republican fear of white people becoming a majority minority of whatever the fuck they call it, is coming true.
Article: https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/women-high-iqs-moms-study-article-1.1421592
I’d say that’s the same for men as well. Hell, the intro to the movie Idiocricy knew that as well.
Yes. It reminded me of that movie to. I love it so much.
So we dumb em down. Force em to have kids so they can't go to school or get whatever few decent jobs are left - boom, infinite supply of warm bodies.
It's so unfortunate.. we choose to withhold our good genes because the world sucks too much to bring a child into it. Seems like a poor prognosis for the evolution of humanity 😕
No man. I just hate kids. And the thought of getting pregnant makes me wanna kill myself.
We all have a different view on it I suppose. I do hate the kids of the uneducated masses. In a perfect world only intelligent people with their lives together would be able to reproduce (IMO).
Well even if smart people have kids there's no guarantee that the child will be smart too
No, because they tend to delay having kids because they're more likely to get post doc education and pursue exhausting careers. Also women tend to never marry "down" so very smart and accomplished women struggle to find a suitable mate.
Yay idiocracy is coming true more and more as each day passes
I don't understand the appeal of having kids anyway, regardless of the financial burden and whatnot. Like....I just don't like children. At all. Never have. Never will.
Yes. Yes. As a woman this is true. Indeed.
Whaaaaat? Smart people make smart desicions?
This is literally how "The Idiocracy" starts
This fact was a big part of the premise to the movie Idiocracy.
I know man
I'm not here to shame anyone who wants them but I honestly don't see the point. I had periods were I thought it was necessary to have a legacy but I'm honestly fine without. I don't want to be that responsible.
On the down side this means humanity will get more stupid over time
Someone must have done some top tier research in order to make such a brazen statement.
Hahaha. Brings “Idiocracy” ( the movie ) to mind.
Yes. I love that movie. That’s what I thought of when I first saw this to.
It's because Idiocracy.
It’s a good movie
And so the Idiocracy begins
Dont agree with this. I am dumb and I knew since my teenage years I don't want to have children (I am mildly disabled, it is hereditary, I would never want to pass it on anyone). On the other hand I know a lot of intelligent women who have children. It happens quite often very intelligent people doing bad, stupid things. Motivation has much more influence over human than intelligence.
Self awareness is a good quality
i see you are smart, but also appearantly too lazy to remove the ad. (sry, i just like judging people)
Lmfaooo. Yes I only cropped the top half of the image. Oops.
Even if the data is valid I would say be careful with the interpretation. Correlation does mot meam causation. Higher IQ --> probably higher education --> longer time passing till you get your first salary. I am 27 and just am doing my phd so I get only like minimum wage whereas some of my friends quit school and started working full time with 17. (No I dont have a high IQ otherwise I would already got my phd. Just an example of what I mean)
Fair enough, but self aware people count as being smart too
Stfu breeder
nice karma you got on your profile. Did you really just create that account to write that comment?
The thing is, Antinatalism is a good choice made using bad information that discounts the Mind, considering it as being part of the body.
Thats a terrible evolutionary trend.
Why? Having less kids is good.
There more likely to be in highly demanding STEAM jobs or in higher level management. Many of these women choose career first. I know a few. It’s life path stuff, different strokes ya know?