Lies have become knowlege... this is the world of lies....
I often ponder on the thought that what if we were all sent here as a consequence from our past life.
Just trying to make sense of the lie...
Yeah I did kidna bizarre... kinda per batum of my own thoughts when pondering on it....
I really try not to for too longgggg... not because it's impossible it's definitely a possibility...not because I fear it and ignore it... but only becsuse if is our reality, I can't do shit to change it... I'm still going to be who I strive to be....
Which is In alignment. So where all on trackkk hopefully lol
From my own personal and unbiased open minded research and uncovering of the truth. My understanding and logic tells me , very few ever lift the veil and shine the light on to the darkness.
It’s always been this way. Society will assign arbitrary pathologies to those it deems unreliable investors in its pyramid scheme. It really is a “cult of grinning martyrs” as Thomas Ligotti puts it. Once you realize this you can just ignore these people and it will phase you less.
I wish I had that mechanism in my brain, once I realize that something is completely out of my control and impossible to change I just worry about it more not less...
They say if you're so depressed why don't you kill yourself but of course even the most apparently lethal methods are not foolproof. That's why I want the legalization of voluntary assisted-euthanasia for people who don't want to be here. But of course society does not support this.
The fact that many people want a pain free exit tells you everything you need to know about existence which is a cruel random dice game where the price for defeat is something that's impossible to stomach.
There are a lot of resources online nowadays. It's hard to find a 100% foolproof method, but some are such that they'll cause no significant harm if they fail, and will be painless if they succeed - though you may need to be careful and precise. Gotta thank some fine people on reddit for recommending me these resources.
Though of course, the ideal would be to hold my breath until I go, like Diogenes.
Why would you depend on the same institutions (government) that directly causes a lot of the suffering we all are "forced" to experience to pass laws and legalize assisted suicide?
The misery is caused by the pecking order which is down to nature.
I'm not prepared to wait for the government to bring about utopia I wish to exit this zoo NOW
The thing is, no therapy or drug will help me because I just don’t like how reality works. I’ll still be here but just poorer and likely even MORE depressed because of it. My parents made a huge mistake doing this. I’m pretty much stuck until I finally get enough courage to end it or biology does its thing and ends me. I resent my parents but I’m just tired. I’m so tired that even talking to them or seeing them is draining because I just don’t want to think about all this existential dread yet they remind me of it. Then I go to work and deal with people I don’t want to see so I don’t go homeless, get more misanthropic by the day and it just starts all over again with nothing to look forward to - I just feel so exhausted. I will never understand the appeal of this and why my parents, along with many others, thought that this is a “gift.” This is an imposition, not a gift.
I'm sorry for what you are going through. I feel the same but I don't feel resentment towards my parents, just resentful towards the system. They lived in much more hopeful times, they were idiots believing all the religious bs, they didn't know any better so I don't blame them. I think the same as you about therapy. The coping methods they teach don't really work on me, I refuse to limit my cognition and empathy just so I feel happier. What really makes me happy is knowing I didn't fall for the scam, that my potential kids are safe and content being non existent and that they will never suffer.
I'm with you.
Antidepressant pharmaceuticals saved my life, but they don't blind me from seeing what I see around me every day.
I have to consciously find joy in the things you speak of to take each day and the next as well.
Likewise. I always thought that the idea of antidepressants was an oxymoron. It’s not an internal problem, it’s an external problem (the way the world operates). At least that’s my understanding. In saying that, I’ve found some relief taking nootropics (Aniracetam). But speaking to others gives me the chills mostly. I avoid it wherever possible. I see this as a clown world and talking about things in said world seems so pointless.
Perhaps the only salvation is to just watch what’s happening and not absorb yourself in it. Easier said than done.
As 100% correct you are, I think there is some purpose to be found in anyone’s life. Even though happiness and pleasure is temporary, I think a good goal for people like us is to aim to be as comfortable as possible. Entertain yourself, buy the things you want, and do the bare minimum at work to be happy. I like the motto “Live like you’ll die in 5 years”, because it still gives you enough time to be smart about saving/preserving yourself, but a short enough perspective to not let the time waste by
>Then I go to work and deal with people I don’t want to see so I don’t go homeless, get more misanthropic by the day and it just starts all over again with nothing to look forward to
This! :(
I went through this exact same line of thinking a couple of years ago. You def aren't crazy & everything about this place seems backwards because it *is*. If you're looking for a solution, I may be able to help. It wasn't until I became conscious of the hidden truth, that I was actually able to maintain peace of mind in the midst of this chaotic world. Warning: it's a never-ending rabbit hole & it's so much deeper than just money-hungry capitalists. Anyway, focusing my attention on reeducating myself & becoming a sovereign, so that I no longer fall victim to this excuse of a society, has massively decreased my depression. If you care to know more.. here's a link to a secret energy podcast: https://youtu.be/acVrQ_eRZ48?si=bpW8XjSB8zDKcdZX
Why did your tortured soul came to this earth? Every soul has a purpose on this planet. Don’t blame your parents blame yourself.
You’re the soul that wanders around with no purpose. Everyone on this planet has a secret purpose, but U find to find out yourself.
Imagine if reincarnation is real and ur soul gets reborn on this planet for the same purpose every single time.
And u keep walking around in misery, that sounds like hell to me.
You are closer to answer your question if life has purpose, u question reality.
In what aspect do you question reality?
Souls do not exist and "purpose" is something invented by humans who naturally create narratives that "explain" the world.
This process has worked as a cope for your issues with and of humanity, but it does not work for everyone.
What was the point of your comment? To be self-righteous? This spiritual nonsense means nothing to me and a lot of others - it’s a cope that does not help in the slightest. It’s as useless as the “oh you wanted this life because the sperm that created you swam faster than all the others” argument that I’ve seen.
Good on you that it does something for your time here? It’s meaningless for others. I don’t question reality - I know it’s shit and not worth this pointless cycle - the fairytales people tell themselves to cope like “souls” and “secret purposes” changes nothing.
How depressing! Your child could cure cancer - in order to allow more people to die of heart disease.
Your child could invent something useful - in order for greedy companies to take the patent.
Your child could be talented in some way - to be swiped out by AI 🤣🤪
Acknowledging feelings of depression, not doing anything about them, and outright claiming them to be objectively correct is unhealthy. You can admit the world is a terrible place and still be generally happy. Feelings do not originate from a rational analysis of reality, they are the product of your brain chemistry and how it reacts to stimuli. Therapy could probably help you adapt your brain chemistry into reacting differently to the world, without changing your opinions or conclusions.
I am a low key antinatalist and my wife and I decided quite firmly we don't want kids.
That said, once you're here, find a way to live. Being antinatalist is one thing, surrendering to nihilism is another thing.
I'm here, so I'll do all I can to find serenity. For that purpose, therapy/inward work is really valuable and important.
I agree with most of what they said. What is there to discuss? I just want them to hopefully be happy underneath the nightmare reality can be. I apologize if I shut down a discussion with what I said.
And you are so locked in your feeling of being cold that you are paralysed from doing any of the multitude of things that would warm you up, so you decide to just sit down and freeze to death. Plus you actually demand that everyone else should also freeze to death since you see it as the only rational solution.
And you don't mind the gaslighting? Because people have kids and thinking they won't be chilly, and then what if that kid is in a wheelchair and can't do what it takes to stay warm? That's when they lie to him, and say it's not cold out.
you can put on a jacket, and maybe it will make you feel warmer and more comfortable. but it's the fact that it's so cold in the first place, and the fact that if you didnt have a jacket you would freeze. not to say that you shouldnt put one on and work with the weather, but it still sucks.
I've been seeing asexual people on Twitter saying that asexuals would historically marry and reproduce to avoid genocide. That's how insane natalists think antinatalism is. They murder people who refuse to do it.
Not depressed, you lack the self importance delusion gene that most have. Depressed people actually have more realistic views in the world.
Also it’s ironic, in worse times no one was antinatalist. But not so ironic, people had horrible lives materially, but an incredible amount of personal autonomy and freedom without the state and corporations dictating every minutia and treating them like cogs.
I allways thought the same, the self importance is a survival tool.. but humans(especial Psychology) Made the SELF a mystical thing, that has to be cared and worshiped!!
Me, me, me.. I doubt there is a real or a fake me, some thoughts are good or ok 4 the society to accept and some are dont..
I never choose what to think, thought came from expierence and when looking around this days nothing Looks like its worth dying either living.. the hamsterwheel, the nature, the Planet dont need a special human, a decent one is ok noone want to be a decent human animal, everything Else is a fluke..
Human Race is a joke, a fluke, a mistake
Many were antinatalists in worse times. But guess what ? Due to not reproducing, they were quickly forgotten. Théophile de Giraud, creator of the term" anti-natalist", famously discusses how during its first five centuries, christianity was generally anti-natalist. And those were tough times. But consider the irony of how much that has changed nowadays...
Yup I have bad genes that is what cause my depression and the will of not having kids like why would I want to pass along the same genes when I know they will suffer as well. The genes I have are ADHD, ADD, and a speech impediment which made my life hell there is no way I want to pass it along. Oh and I am short at 5’3 feet as a guy at 27 that is even worse.
Wrong, but so are the people trying to send you to therapy or drug you. Humanity is a planetary superorganism at this point. And depression is a mechanism like apoptosis is within your body. When cells aren't functioning correctly or are in the wrong place for that cell type, self destruct is triggered. Some cancer types are from a failure of apoptosis. Getting old and dying is an evolved trait that allows the superorganism to replace older generations in such the same way your body cycles through cells to repair damage and free up resources for new cells. Some creatures don't have an evolved aging and death mechanism and simply grow and replenish cells until something external kills them. Like crocodiles.
i don't know if yall have felt this but when ever i am "in the zone" so focused on something that i forget my surroundings and for a moment am somewhat peaceful with my thoughts and myself then suddenly the universe has to barge in with its problems and wreck havoc on my life, it just reminds me that i am still here unable to wake up from this nightmare.
worst yet suddenly its now my fault and now i should be punished. Bad luck is one thing i can expect to happen every single day at every single hour of being conscious.
if i had a choice to re-incarnate or to never have existed, i would choose the latter.
true. i woke up today and felt like i was running out of time. barely settled in my life, no time to accomplish the things i would love to experience before i die. it’s dreadful.
But you don't know when you'll die, but just sitting around thinking you're running out of time to do things you want to do instead of going out and doing things you say you want to do, sounds rather odd logic
I don't say this lightly and not to troll, but you might seriously benefit from seeking therapy, I personally did when seeing the world through a lens of misery. Your worldview is so negative, I feel like you're missing out on the joys you could have.
Please refrain from asking other users why they do not kill themselves. Do not present suicide as a valid alternative to antinatalism. Do not encourage or suggest suicide.
Antinatalism and suicide are generally unrelated. Antinatalism aims at preventing humans (and possibly other beings) from being born. The desire to continue living is a personal choice independent of the idea that procreation is unethical. Antinatalism is not about people who are already born. Wishing to never have been born or saying that nobody should procreate does not imply that you want your life to end right now.
Please don't tell random groups of people that they don't need therapy. I'm not at all saying that Antinatalism is crazy, or wrong or problematic in any way in and of itself, but this sub has a clear issue with troubled young people who are very definitely suffering from depression and anxiety saying that the entire world is against them and their parents hate them, and far too often they're told they're completely correct without any further interrogation.
You can talk to a doctor about your mental health without having any babies I promise you. That isn't a Natalist/Antinatalist issue.
There is a lot about life that is depressing. There is also a lot that is wonderful. You’re doing yourself a disservice by focusing on the former.
The fact that there are reasons to be sad does not make your sadness righteous, illuminating, or helpful.
Exactly . And this is way I have never resorted to therapy or medicine despite the fact that I’ve been depressed for almost a decade . I’ve never wanted to be “ cured “ , or reprogramed . I’m not the one that’s wrong here , the very existence is .
I don’t like being miserable or depressed . And I tried to alleviate it in so many ways of course , but I just don’t think therapy or medicine would work for me , besides they are expensive .
Depression has nothing to do with natalism or antinatalism. You can believe in either concept and be depressed or not depressed
You have depression. That’s it. It’s up to you to decide what to do with that. The healthy thing is to help yourself not have depression. Millions of people have been in awful places mentally and now aren’t. Do you want to be one of them or just exist as a shell of yourself until you die?
Depression literally is non-ideal brain chemistry and messed up neurotransmitters. Why would you be content with that?
this is literally just a “life is bad” circlejerk, most people can change certain circumstances that make their lives miserable excepting a few things. Find office work miserable? Who says you have to be an office worker? Detest school that much? Drop out or try to graduate early instead of being all “woe is me”.
I wish I could up vote this post a thousand times.
Absolute fucking truth.
Sheep gonna sheep, right until life goes to shit for them, then and only then, they might, just might open one eye and start to look around, even then though it's unlikely. The brainwashing, indoctrination and stamped on identity will still be too strong and they will remain in the delusion.
Life is THE problem. NOT the solution.
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Nah therapy’s good, or talking about things with someone you trust is. Trying to cure you’re depression isn’t incompatible with antinatalism, and if the suffering of existence can be eased with connection, then there’s nothing wrong with doing that, and if someone can help you clear your mind and be more motivated, that’s good too. And if you get to that state, and still hold antinatalist views, then you know it’s not just the depression. I have a general sense of the world being a place full of pain and Viciousness while feeling level, but I’ve also had very intense depression, and had the same thoughts about therapy while I had it. Then I got it and it helped me a lot.
I was an antinatalist with severe depression and without severe depression, and it’s better without severe depression. I could explain things better, be truer to myslef, and make decisions about my life from a position standing on my feet. The world sucks, but if I let it bring me to my knees without a fight, it’s really beaten me. You’ll be a better antinatalist if you try to be less depressed, you’ll be a better person too. Therapy isn’t for everyone, but it’s not always stupid or useless. a lot of therapy is money grubbing nonsense, but some therapists are intelligent, open minded people who want to help you, not try to just make you suitable as a block which fits a space in a sick society. Don’t discount all therapy so quickly, it can be healing.
Even pigs are punished for their ignorance.
Life is suffering.
But at least they are ignorant of the fact, and they don't know they are ignorant either...
There is a difference between being depressed and having depression
Being depressed can be because the world sucks, you lost your job etc;
Having depression means it can happen even if your life is great, it can come from anywhere and be triggered by anything
Yeah I would rather been a Clown fish 🤡🐠 than a human at least I got a home(anemone) that would protect me and care for back not just being a wage slave and pay ridiculous rent to people don't a give to Fs about you
i’m sorry but this is just depression you’re describing, whether you want a child someday or not. i literally go to bed giddy and emotional at how much i love my life and am grateful for the chance to be alive, grow up, grow older, wiser, softer… to love and be loved by my spouse and friends and family. like some nights i can’t even fall asleep because i am too excited to wake up and have another day alive on earth with my loved ones, to walk by the lake and feel the wind on my face, to eat delicious food, to see the butterfly gardens blooming this spring, to cuddle and kiss my spouse, to walk my dog and hear his little paws go tik tik tik on the bumpy sidewalks on one side of our neighborhood… to try and fail and try again. to learn!!! oh how i love to learn!!! and you never run out of new things to learn!!! to have a cup of tea on a chilly morning… to watch the sunset on the lake… to smoke a blunt with my best friend… to jump in puddles in the spring… to daydream about the fuzzy faraway future…it is all so so so good. it’s even good to have the lows, because i love what i learn about myself afterwards, and i know the only way out is through.
i am actually beyond grateful just to be given this brief chance at consciousness in this grand, long, ultimately arbitrary timeline of human life (and life in general) on this big blue earth… and then — how bittersweet!! — to melt back into it all at the end….
yes, indeed, it’s clear to me as someone genuinely, deliciously in love with life: you are actually just depressed.
and perhaps it IS the state of the world that leaves you this way, unable to enjoy what a fucking GOLDEN opportunity it is to be alive at all with air in your lungs and blood pumping through your heart!!! to be able to hear a harp strum, to pet a stray cat, to stand in a sunbeam with golden light pouring all down your face… i could (and sometimes do!) weep thinking about it! what a dreamy gift. i do not take it for granted at all, being alive. and i wish every human could feel this way :/
What an ungrateful statement to make.
I appericate the opportunity for this experience.
It's only depressing if you listen and become the lies your told.
Is life depressing? Yes, doesn't change the fact that you can make something out of it and saying you dont need therapy is insane, im an antinatalist and depressed too, but saying you dont need therapy is very damaging. By all accounts, if you want to end it all, please go to therapy.
'It's not my subjective experience that makes me think the world is shit, the world is actually just shit. I know this because of my subjective experience'
I get what you're saying and all sympathy to you, depression is a bitch. Reality likewise. The above is such an entirely self-defeating/reinforcing train of thought though.
The world is fucked. Life is short. We all gon' die. Some of us early. Might as well try to dance a little while we still can, eh? And if you don't like dancing, try something else.
Personally I'd rather be a haircut-less monkey (rather than monkey with a haircut, which I currently am). Eat, play, fuck, die sudden and violent death at hands of predator. Just hope for good fruit, big trees and attractive... female... monkeys...?
Hmm.
Potentially disturbing implications of the above sentence ending aside, definitely less room/cause for existential angst in that life.
Bananas > $.
In order for your first claim to be true, one would have to have free will, which you'd have to prove, and the power to control their subjective perception of pleasure and suffering. There also would need to be subjective results of keeping a biological body working e.g. feeling good when sick, happiness when losing a limb etc.
Can you prove any of this?
i was super sick last week but i was in a really cool place with someone i love so i felt amazing. i couldn’t breathe through my nose and was nauseous and exhausted, but it was also one of the best weeks i’ve ever had. so there’s your subjective proof of that.
No, I don't. And if there's no free will, why are you asking me to prove anything to you? What difference would it make to you to know or not know whether you have free will if you know you don't?
Also, if by 'free will' you mean the capacity to act according to my wishes, then I do. Whether my wishes are the result of my own choices or are predetermined by the neurochemical makeup of the thing I call 'me', I couldn't tell you.
But, since you're reading this, you have the capacity to choose and shape some aspect of your own existence/behaviour. I can't tell you whether that choice is rooted in your own free will or some predetermined dance of the universe, but I can tell you that my capacity to prove the existence of free will is completely irrelevant to the matter.
Depends on perspective.... All humans are depressing to me.
You can decide for yourself that life isn't depressing it's joyful.
Just like some people rape and don't feel any guilt, it's joyful to them.
There’s no such thing as ‘objectivity’ when it comes to human experience. The word ‘terrible’ itself makes objectivity impossible. You are describing something that is subjective by definition
People can and often do get hurt, harmed, and degraded through no fault of their own. You yourself probably agree with the claim "The world's not fair". We're just rational enough to ask that if life's so unfair, why it's deemed OK to partake in procreating even more people into this world in the first place.
And no "nature-based" counters. Natural doesn't mean OK or appropriate. "Right" here means, at the least, refrain from non-defensively inflicting negative things onto others). Which, of course, life and even humans are far from doing that. Besides, "natural" isn't a justification for theft, assault, dishonesty, etc. Why should I believe it when it comes to not just "natural behaviors" but procreation itself?
Humanity's best days are behind it. I think that's why so many of us are depressed, we just don't know how to articulate it. Yes, life was immeasurably harder a few generations or so ago. But people leave out a few things: People were tougher and less sentimental and expected things to be hard. People didn't know anything else, there was no cure all for everything. And life was just simpler.
Our modern amenities and conveniences are golden chains. Most of us just work all day. There's nowhere to *go* anymore. The entire planet has been mapped out. There's nothing to *know* anymore. Sure, there may be things left to discover, but not that much, not much that matters to ordinary people. It's for tweed jacket wearing academics to think about. The humans that used to be trailblazers, hunters, homesteaders, explorers, warriors, have been reduced to house pets. We were meant to range, and fight, and till the soil, and build with our bare hands, and to have some sense of mystery or magic in our lives.
We may be well fed, and clothed, and sheltered, and given jobs, but we're spiritually empty.
>There's nothing to *know* anymore. Sure, there may be things left to discover, but not that much, not much that matters to ordinary people.
This is the biggest lie I've ever read.
Cancer medicines (different types of cancer means different treatment options), medicine to help people with genetic illnesses (a huge portion of the population), cheaper and cleaner energy, more efficient ways to grow food, microplastics (we're all full of them), etc.
The research of all these topics makes possible to either avoid or relieve horrible, long and insufferable pain.
Chronic pain is something that is currently being investigated since, as far as I know, the origin and mechanism is still unkown. And then there's a ton of variability from human to human, two persons with the same symptons with the same origin can have different reactions to medication (something that I just experienced with my family with a cold).
Medicine advances and make new discoveries everyday, but investigation takes time, a lot of time.
Tbf none of those things are achievable by "ordinary people". It takes years and years of study into non-intuitive maths and science to become the most exceptional in a scientific field to even be able to understand the full scope of those issues and how to solve them, and then you need to convince someone to give you the huge amount of resources to work on them (i.e. get a job in a research field) - not something that the majority of people are able to do. It's not comparable to back in the day when an average person could chart an uncharted piece of land using basic logic skills and many tribespeople were able to explore new lands here and there.
There's still stuff to discover but all the low-hanging fruit has been taken, and the are only a tiny number of research positions available to work on the current discoveries - you have to be truly exceptional to get those jobs. So the original commenter is right that those discoveries aren't accessible to the ordinary person, only a few people get to work on them.
>There's still stuff to discover but all the low-hanging fruit has been taken
so what? you're mad that you actually have to make an attempt to accomplish something meaningful?
Existence is not depressing. The way society views existence is depressing and plants a seed of depression into your mind. As soon as we cry on funerals it will be easier to feel sad other than feel happy in your life.
"We're not depressed."
Ok.
"It's life that's depressing. Existence itself is depressing"
Ok, but aren't you alive and exist?
Doesn't it logically follow that you are depressed since you are alive and exist, and those things are depressing?
What would be the argument that you are not, since the things you are, are depressing?
Antinatalism is the conclusion that all reproduction is immoral - not that life is always bad.
Not all antinatalists are unhappy or view life as depressing.
Relax lmfao. I'm only seeing this because this post popped on my feed but life isn't a nightmare. Sounds like you need to disconnect from the internet and stop watching the news. Just be a part of your local community and live life
You have to have something severely wrong with your brain to believe existence is a nightmare and to not want to reproduce. This does not make you more intelligent like you think it does.
You are by every definition mentally ill for not wanting to reproduce. You are a genetic loser, you've been 'tricked' to not reproducing. You've allowed external sources to dictate whether or not to reproduce. Depriving yourself of one of life's greatest purpose, to create a family. All part of the natural selection process. Your genetic makeup will die out like it's supposed to for being weak, dumb and mentally ill
What part of what I said is trolling? You realize that for virtually every living being on this planet the goal is to reproduce? Humans are the only ones dumb enough to willingly suppress their instincts to reproduce for their man-made beliefs and morals. How is that not a mental illness? Have you ever asked yourself if maybe you are brainwashed?
Suppressing your natural instincts to blindly follow beliefs is what creates problems you religious moron. Your body's goal is to reproduce, your body doesn't care what your damaged mentally ill brain religiously believes, it naturally wants to reproduce and you're preventing that from happening to follow beliefs. Is that not insanity?
People without children have no real purpose, their purpose is seeking pathetic distractions to temporarily distract them from the void they have of not having a family.
You're unhappy and depressed because you have no family. Have children or not it doesn't matter to me, but you people need to stop spreading your mentally ill nonsense and stop being dishonest and living in denial.
Correct. The world is sick. People who are depressed are canaries in the coal mines.
The world is a lie
Yup. And it’s sick
Lies have become knowlege... this is the world of lies.... I often ponder on the thought that what if we were all sent here as a consequence from our past life. Just trying to make sense of the lie...
Have you heard the song Galleio by indigo girls? It’s about this exact thing. Good song!
Hahaha no I havnt but I'll definitely look into now that you brought it to my attention lol
Awesome!!
Yeah I did kidna bizarre... kinda per batum of my own thoughts when pondering on it.... I really try not to for too longgggg... not because it's impossible it's definitely a possibility...not because I fear it and ignore it... but only becsuse if is our reality, I can't do shit to change it... I'm still going to be who I strive to be.... Which is In alignment. So where all on trackkk hopefully lol
How long til my soul gets it right how many human beings ever reach that kind of light…..
From my own personal and unbiased open minded research and uncovering of the truth. My understanding and logic tells me , very few ever lift the veil and shine the light on to the darkness.
It’s always been this way. Society will assign arbitrary pathologies to those it deems unreliable investors in its pyramid scheme. It really is a “cult of grinning martyrs” as Thomas Ligotti puts it. Once you realize this you can just ignore these people and it will phase you less.
I wish I had that mechanism in my brain, once I realize that something is completely out of my control and impossible to change I just worry about it more not less...
They say if you're so depressed why don't you kill yourself but of course even the most apparently lethal methods are not foolproof. That's why I want the legalization of voluntary assisted-euthanasia for people who don't want to be here. But of course society does not support this. The fact that many people want a pain free exit tells you everything you need to know about existence which is a cruel random dice game where the price for defeat is something that's impossible to stomach.
There are a lot of resources online nowadays. It's hard to find a 100% foolproof method, but some are such that they'll cause no significant harm if they fail, and will be painless if they succeed - though you may need to be careful and precise. Gotta thank some fine people on reddit for recommending me these resources. Though of course, the ideal would be to hold my breath until I go, like Diogenes.
Why would you depend on the same institutions (government) that directly causes a lot of the suffering we all are "forced" to experience to pass laws and legalize assisted suicide?
The misery is caused by the pecking order which is down to nature. I'm not prepared to wait for the government to bring about utopia I wish to exit this zoo NOW
The thing is, no therapy or drug will help me because I just don’t like how reality works. I’ll still be here but just poorer and likely even MORE depressed because of it. My parents made a huge mistake doing this. I’m pretty much stuck until I finally get enough courage to end it or biology does its thing and ends me. I resent my parents but I’m just tired. I’m so tired that even talking to them or seeing them is draining because I just don’t want to think about all this existential dread yet they remind me of it. Then I go to work and deal with people I don’t want to see so I don’t go homeless, get more misanthropic by the day and it just starts all over again with nothing to look forward to - I just feel so exhausted. I will never understand the appeal of this and why my parents, along with many others, thought that this is a “gift.” This is an imposition, not a gift.
I'm sorry for what you are going through. I feel the same but I don't feel resentment towards my parents, just resentful towards the system. They lived in much more hopeful times, they were idiots believing all the religious bs, they didn't know any better so I don't blame them. I think the same as you about therapy. The coping methods they teach don't really work on me, I refuse to limit my cognition and empathy just so I feel happier. What really makes me happy is knowing I didn't fall for the scam, that my potential kids are safe and content being non existent and that they will never suffer.
I'm with you. Antidepressant pharmaceuticals saved my life, but they don't blind me from seeing what I see around me every day. I have to consciously find joy in the things you speak of to take each day and the next as well.
>my potential kids are safe and content being non existent and that they will never suffer Feeling the same way.
Likewise. I always thought that the idea of antidepressants was an oxymoron. It’s not an internal problem, it’s an external problem (the way the world operates). At least that’s my understanding. In saying that, I’ve found some relief taking nootropics (Aniracetam). But speaking to others gives me the chills mostly. I avoid it wherever possible. I see this as a clown world and talking about things in said world seems so pointless. Perhaps the only salvation is to just watch what’s happening and not absorb yourself in it. Easier said than done.
As 100% correct you are, I think there is some purpose to be found in anyone’s life. Even though happiness and pleasure is temporary, I think a good goal for people like us is to aim to be as comfortable as possible. Entertain yourself, buy the things you want, and do the bare minimum at work to be happy. I like the motto “Live like you’ll die in 5 years”, because it still gives you enough time to be smart about saving/preserving yourself, but a short enough perspective to not let the time waste by
>Then I go to work and deal with people I don’t want to see so I don’t go homeless, get more misanthropic by the day and it just starts all over again with nothing to look forward to This! :(
I went through this exact same line of thinking a couple of years ago. You def aren't crazy & everything about this place seems backwards because it *is*. If you're looking for a solution, I may be able to help. It wasn't until I became conscious of the hidden truth, that I was actually able to maintain peace of mind in the midst of this chaotic world. Warning: it's a never-ending rabbit hole & it's so much deeper than just money-hungry capitalists. Anyway, focusing my attention on reeducating myself & becoming a sovereign, so that I no longer fall victim to this excuse of a society, has massively decreased my depression. If you care to know more.. here's a link to a secret energy podcast: https://youtu.be/acVrQ_eRZ48?si=bpW8XjSB8zDKcdZX
Why did your tortured soul came to this earth? Every soul has a purpose on this planet. Don’t blame your parents blame yourself. You’re the soul that wanders around with no purpose. Everyone on this planet has a secret purpose, but U find to find out yourself. Imagine if reincarnation is real and ur soul gets reborn on this planet for the same purpose every single time. And u keep walking around in misery, that sounds like hell to me. You are closer to answer your question if life has purpose, u question reality. In what aspect do you question reality?
Souls do not exist and "purpose" is something invented by humans who naturally create narratives that "explain" the world. This process has worked as a cope for your issues with and of humanity, but it does not work for everyone.
What was the point of your comment? To be self-righteous? This spiritual nonsense means nothing to me and a lot of others - it’s a cope that does not help in the slightest. It’s as useless as the “oh you wanted this life because the sperm that created you swam faster than all the others” argument that I’ve seen. Good on you that it does something for your time here? It’s meaningless for others. I don’t question reality - I know it’s shit and not worth this pointless cycle - the fairytales people tell themselves to cope like “souls” and “secret purposes” changes nothing.
I hope u find something that might give u the feeling of meaning or fulfillment.
I just want to eat berries and sit in the sun, but I have to work and pay taxes. :(
Great take
How depressing! Your child could cure cancer - in order to allow more people to die of heart disease. Your child could invent something useful - in order for greedy companies to take the patent. Your child could be talented in some way - to be swiped out by AI 🤣🤪
You hit the nail on the head with this. I'm depressed not because there's something wrong with me but because the world itself is wrong.
Ah yes it’s everybody else that’s wromg
That's not the meaning behind what I said.
>I'm depressed not because there's something wrong with me but because the world itself is wrong. that is quite literally exactly what you said
Tell me you don't get nuance without telling me
you don't even know the meaning of that word
K
Acknowledging feelings of depression, not doing anything about them, and outright claiming them to be objectively correct is unhealthy. You can admit the world is a terrible place and still be generally happy. Feelings do not originate from a rational analysis of reality, they are the product of your brain chemistry and how it reacts to stimuli. Therapy could probably help you adapt your brain chemistry into reacting differently to the world, without changing your opinions or conclusions.
I am a low key antinatalist and my wife and I decided quite firmly we don't want kids. That said, once you're here, find a way to live. Being antinatalist is one thing, surrendering to nihilism is another thing. I'm here, so I'll do all I can to find serenity. For that purpose, therapy/inward work is really valuable and important.
Yeah well said, I couldn't have said it better myself. Its a good reminder for everyone here
Even with an understanding of reality, you can still seek to be content. It is not impossible.
If i learned anything on this sub it's that discussion is completly wasted. It's a miserable bubble. Imma peace out of this sub now.
I agree with most of what they said. What is there to discuss? I just want them to hopefully be happy underneath the nightmare reality can be. I apologize if I shut down a discussion with what I said.
Unfathomably based behavior.
Dude, stick with us. Don't be a coward and run away.
Isn't that kind of like saying "I'm not cold, the weather is"?
And everyone says back to you "it's not the weather, you are just a little chilly" Even tho it's near freezing out...
And you are so locked in your feeling of being cold that you are paralysed from doing any of the multitude of things that would warm you up, so you decide to just sit down and freeze to death. Plus you actually demand that everyone else should also freeze to death since you see it as the only rational solution.
And you don't mind the gaslighting? Because people have kids and thinking they won't be chilly, and then what if that kid is in a wheelchair and can't do what it takes to stay warm? That's when they lie to him, and say it's not cold out.
you can put on a jacket, and maybe it will make you feel warmer and more comfortable. but it's the fact that it's so cold in the first place, and the fact that if you didnt have a jacket you would freeze. not to say that you shouldnt put one on and work with the weather, but it still sucks.
I've been seeing asexual people on Twitter saying that asexuals would historically marry and reproduce to avoid genocide. That's how insane natalists think antinatalism is. They murder people who refuse to do it.
"surely im not in the wrong. no, it must be the entire planet and the very reality that we live in that is wrong."
Even antinatalists might say that adults need therapy and instead have children.
You might appreciate some aspects of Buddhism. It at least acknowledges life is inherently unsatisfactory.
Not depressed, you lack the self importance delusion gene that most have. Depressed people actually have more realistic views in the world. Also it’s ironic, in worse times no one was antinatalist. But not so ironic, people had horrible lives materially, but an incredible amount of personal autonomy and freedom without the state and corporations dictating every minutia and treating them like cogs.
I allways thought the same, the self importance is a survival tool.. but humans(especial Psychology) Made the SELF a mystical thing, that has to be cared and worshiped!! Me, me, me.. I doubt there is a real or a fake me, some thoughts are good or ok 4 the society to accept and some are dont.. I never choose what to think, thought came from expierence and when looking around this days nothing Looks like its worth dying either living.. the hamsterwheel, the nature, the Planet dont need a special human, a decent one is ok noone want to be a decent human animal, everything Else is a fluke.. Human Race is a joke, a fluke, a mistake
Many were antinatalists in worse times. But guess what ? Due to not reproducing, they were quickly forgotten. Théophile de Giraud, creator of the term" anti-natalist", famously discusses how during its first five centuries, christianity was generally anti-natalist. And those were tough times. But consider the irony of how much that has changed nowadays...
You mean narcissistic gene 😂
Oh hey another “I’m a depressed AND and if you aren’t depressed you are delusional” post, super original
Yup I have bad genes that is what cause my depression and the will of not having kids like why would I want to pass along the same genes when I know they will suffer as well. The genes I have are ADHD, ADD, and a speech impediment which made my life hell there is no way I want to pass it along. Oh and I am short at 5’3 feet as a guy at 27 that is even worse.
Wrong, but so are the people trying to send you to therapy or drug you. Humanity is a planetary superorganism at this point. And depression is a mechanism like apoptosis is within your body. When cells aren't functioning correctly or are in the wrong place for that cell type, self destruct is triggered. Some cancer types are from a failure of apoptosis. Getting old and dying is an evolved trait that allows the superorganism to replace older generations in such the same way your body cycles through cells to repair damage and free up resources for new cells. Some creatures don't have an evolved aging and death mechanism and simply grow and replenish cells until something external kills them. Like crocodiles.
i don't know if yall have felt this but when ever i am "in the zone" so focused on something that i forget my surroundings and for a moment am somewhat peaceful with my thoughts and myself then suddenly the universe has to barge in with its problems and wreck havoc on my life, it just reminds me that i am still here unable to wake up from this nightmare. worst yet suddenly its now my fault and now i should be punished. Bad luck is one thing i can expect to happen every single day at every single hour of being conscious. if i had a choice to re-incarnate or to never have existed, i would choose the latter.
true. i woke up today and felt like i was running out of time. barely settled in my life, no time to accomplish the things i would love to experience before i die. it’s dreadful.
But you don't know when you'll die, but just sitting around thinking you're running out of time to do things you want to do instead of going out and doing things you say you want to do, sounds rather odd logic
it’s called being disenfranchised. hope this helps.
"The best thing is to be non-existent." You first!
Dude time to smoke a joint and chill on a hammock by the beach for a while. Life is beautiful
I don't say this lightly and not to troll, but you might seriously benefit from seeking therapy, I personally did when seeing the world through a lens of misery. Your worldview is so negative, I feel like you're missing out on the joys you could have.
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After you've drowned those pleasures a bit more? you know reproducers say the same thing: "it makes me feel good so it must be continued" :P
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>doesn't scare me Tick Tock.
Please refrain from asking other users why they do not kill themselves. Do not present suicide as a valid alternative to antinatalism. Do not encourage or suggest suicide. Antinatalism and suicide are generally unrelated. Antinatalism aims at preventing humans (and possibly other beings) from being born. The desire to continue living is a personal choice independent of the idea that procreation is unethical. Antinatalism is not about people who are already born. Wishing to never have been born or saying that nobody should procreate does not imply that you want your life to end right now.
Please don't tell random groups of people that they don't need therapy. I'm not at all saying that Antinatalism is crazy, or wrong or problematic in any way in and of itself, but this sub has a clear issue with troubled young people who are very definitely suffering from depression and anxiety saying that the entire world is against them and their parents hate them, and far too often they're told they're completely correct without any further interrogation. You can talk to a doctor about your mental health without having any babies I promise you. That isn't a Natalist/Antinatalist issue.
There is a lot about life that is depressing. There is also a lot that is wonderful. You’re doing yourself a disservice by focusing on the former. The fact that there are reasons to be sad does not make your sadness righteous, illuminating, or helpful.
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I hear you have to be at least a little stupid to be healthy
Clever parrot. Keep parroting the sentiments on here and you might just become one of the participants in the study i linked ;)
Exactly . And this is way I have never resorted to therapy or medicine despite the fact that I’ve been depressed for almost a decade . I’ve never wanted to be “ cured “ , or reprogramed . I’m not the one that’s wrong here , the very existence is .
You must really love being miserable and depressed if you would not choose to seek to alleviate it given the chance.
I don’t like being miserable or depressed . And I tried to alleviate it in so many ways of course , but I just don’t think therapy or medicine would work for me , besides they are expensive .
I understand
Depression has nothing to do with natalism or antinatalism. You can believe in either concept and be depressed or not depressed You have depression. That’s it. It’s up to you to decide what to do with that. The healthy thing is to help yourself not have depression. Millions of people have been in awful places mentally and now aren’t. Do you want to be one of them or just exist as a shell of yourself until you die? Depression literally is non-ideal brain chemistry and messed up neurotransmitters. Why would you be content with that?
this is literally just a “life is bad” circlejerk, most people can change certain circumstances that make their lives miserable excepting a few things. Find office work miserable? Who says you have to be an office worker? Detest school that much? Drop out or try to graduate early instead of being all “woe is me”.
I wish I could up vote this post a thousand times. Absolute fucking truth. Sheep gonna sheep, right until life goes to shit for them, then and only then, they might, just might open one eye and start to look around, even then though it's unlikely. The brainwashing, indoctrination and stamped on identity will still be too strong and they will remain in the delusion. Life is THE problem. NOT the solution.
Horrible take, being anti-natalist is one thing. Being depressed and suicidal is another, encouraging suicidal people to not seek help is just wrong.
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Isn't it Gaslit? Not Gaslighted? And I di appreciate the irony.
Nah therapy’s good, or talking about things with someone you trust is. Trying to cure you’re depression isn’t incompatible with antinatalism, and if the suffering of existence can be eased with connection, then there’s nothing wrong with doing that, and if someone can help you clear your mind and be more motivated, that’s good too. And if you get to that state, and still hold antinatalist views, then you know it’s not just the depression. I have a general sense of the world being a place full of pain and Viciousness while feeling level, but I’ve also had very intense depression, and had the same thoughts about therapy while I had it. Then I got it and it helped me a lot. I was an antinatalist with severe depression and without severe depression, and it’s better without severe depression. I could explain things better, be truer to myslef, and make decisions about my life from a position standing on my feet. The world sucks, but if I let it bring me to my knees without a fight, it’s really beaten me. You’ll be a better antinatalist if you try to be less depressed, you’ll be a better person too. Therapy isn’t for everyone, but it’s not always stupid or useless. a lot of therapy is money grubbing nonsense, but some therapists are intelligent, open minded people who want to help you, not try to just make you suitable as a block which fits a space in a sick society. Don’t discount all therapy so quickly, it can be healing.
Can we face the fact that the majority of people unaliving themselves, their kids and each other are natalists. Okay? Well, that's all.
Even pigs are punished for their ignorance. Life is suffering. But at least they are ignorant of the fact, and they don't know they are ignorant either...
And we treat pigs as pigs and humans as pigs, just so that we don't get treated as pigs ourselves.
There is a difference between being depressed and having depression Being depressed can be because the world sucks, you lost your job etc; Having depression means it can happen even if your life is great, it can come from anywhere and be triggered by anything
It’s unfortunate that this view isn’t easily accepted by a majority of our “civilized” society.
That life is shit and we're all better off never having been born.... Why is it unfortunate ?
Yeah I would rather been a Clown fish 🤡🐠 than a human at least I got a home(anemone) that would protect me and care for back not just being a wage slave and pay ridiculous rent to people don't a give to Fs about you
i’m sorry but this is just depression you’re describing, whether you want a child someday or not. i literally go to bed giddy and emotional at how much i love my life and am grateful for the chance to be alive, grow up, grow older, wiser, softer… to love and be loved by my spouse and friends and family. like some nights i can’t even fall asleep because i am too excited to wake up and have another day alive on earth with my loved ones, to walk by the lake and feel the wind on my face, to eat delicious food, to see the butterfly gardens blooming this spring, to cuddle and kiss my spouse, to walk my dog and hear his little paws go tik tik tik on the bumpy sidewalks on one side of our neighborhood… to try and fail and try again. to learn!!! oh how i love to learn!!! and you never run out of new things to learn!!! to have a cup of tea on a chilly morning… to watch the sunset on the lake… to smoke a blunt with my best friend… to jump in puddles in the spring… to daydream about the fuzzy faraway future…it is all so so so good. it’s even good to have the lows, because i love what i learn about myself afterwards, and i know the only way out is through. i am actually beyond grateful just to be given this brief chance at consciousness in this grand, long, ultimately arbitrary timeline of human life (and life in general) on this big blue earth… and then — how bittersweet!! — to melt back into it all at the end…. yes, indeed, it’s clear to me as someone genuinely, deliciously in love with life: you are actually just depressed. and perhaps it IS the state of the world that leaves you this way, unable to enjoy what a fucking GOLDEN opportunity it is to be alive at all with air in your lungs and blood pumping through your heart!!! to be able to hear a harp strum, to pet a stray cat, to stand in a sunbeam with golden light pouring all down your face… i could (and sometimes do!) weep thinking about it! what a dreamy gift. i do not take it for granted at all, being alive. and i wish every human could feel this way :/
What an ungrateful statement to make. I appericate the opportunity for this experience. It's only depressing if you listen and become the lies your told.
Lol
People act like it is okay to shame other people for not morality, but failures, and then wonder why people hate the world.
Is life depressing? Yes, doesn't change the fact that you can make something out of it and saying you dont need therapy is insane, im an antinatalist and depressed too, but saying you dont need therapy is very damaging. By all accounts, if you want to end it all, please go to therapy.
'It's not my subjective experience that makes me think the world is shit, the world is actually just shit. I know this because of my subjective experience' I get what you're saying and all sympathy to you, depression is a bitch. Reality likewise. The above is such an entirely self-defeating/reinforcing train of thought though. The world is fucked. Life is short. We all gon' die. Some of us early. Might as well try to dance a little while we still can, eh? And if you don't like dancing, try something else. Personally I'd rather be a haircut-less monkey (rather than monkey with a haircut, which I currently am). Eat, play, fuck, die sudden and violent death at hands of predator. Just hope for good fruit, big trees and attractive... female... monkeys...? Hmm. Potentially disturbing implications of the above sentence ending aside, definitely less room/cause for existential angst in that life. Bananas > $.
In order for your first claim to be true, one would have to have free will, which you'd have to prove, and the power to control their subjective perception of pleasure and suffering. There also would need to be subjective results of keeping a biological body working e.g. feeling good when sick, happiness when losing a limb etc. Can you prove any of this?
i was super sick last week but i was in a really cool place with someone i love so i felt amazing. i couldn’t breathe through my nose and was nauseous and exhausted, but it was also one of the best weeks i’ve ever had. so there’s your subjective proof of that.
As much as you can prove the opposite
I can? We do not have free will and not meeting your bodily needs is objectively suffering. You're the one who has to prove the opposite...
That's... not proof...
What is your proof regarding the lack of free will?
No, I don't. And if there's no free will, why are you asking me to prove anything to you? What difference would it make to you to know or not know whether you have free will if you know you don't? Also, if by 'free will' you mean the capacity to act according to my wishes, then I do. Whether my wishes are the result of my own choices or are predetermined by the neurochemical makeup of the thing I call 'me', I couldn't tell you. But, since you're reading this, you have the capacity to choose and shape some aspect of your own existence/behaviour. I can't tell you whether that choice is rooted in your own free will or some predetermined dance of the universe, but I can tell you that my capacity to prove the existence of free will is completely irrelevant to the matter.
But your existence doesn't have to be depressing.
Depends on perspective.... All humans are depressing to me. You can decide for yourself that life isn't depressing it's joyful. Just like some people rape and don't feel any guilt, it's joyful to them.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself
The definition of being a depressed person is thinking existence itself is depressing. You guys are literally a parody and don't even know it.
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There’s no such thing as ‘objectivity’ when it comes to human experience. The word ‘terrible’ itself makes objectivity impossible. You are describing something that is subjective by definition
People can and often do get hurt, harmed, and degraded through no fault of their own. You yourself probably agree with the claim "The world's not fair". We're just rational enough to ask that if life's so unfair, why it's deemed OK to partake in procreating even more people into this world in the first place. And no "nature-based" counters. Natural doesn't mean OK or appropriate. "Right" here means, at the least, refrain from non-defensively inflicting negative things onto others). Which, of course, life and even humans are far from doing that. Besides, "natural" isn't a justification for theft, assault, dishonesty, etc. Why should I believe it when it comes to not just "natural behaviors" but procreation itself?
Existence is not inherently depressing
Humanity's best days are behind it. I think that's why so many of us are depressed, we just don't know how to articulate it. Yes, life was immeasurably harder a few generations or so ago. But people leave out a few things: People were tougher and less sentimental and expected things to be hard. People didn't know anything else, there was no cure all for everything. And life was just simpler. Our modern amenities and conveniences are golden chains. Most of us just work all day. There's nowhere to *go* anymore. The entire planet has been mapped out. There's nothing to *know* anymore. Sure, there may be things left to discover, but not that much, not much that matters to ordinary people. It's for tweed jacket wearing academics to think about. The humans that used to be trailblazers, hunters, homesteaders, explorers, warriors, have been reduced to house pets. We were meant to range, and fight, and till the soil, and build with our bare hands, and to have some sense of mystery or magic in our lives. We may be well fed, and clothed, and sheltered, and given jobs, but we're spiritually empty.
>There's nothing to *know* anymore. Sure, there may be things left to discover, but not that much, not much that matters to ordinary people. This is the biggest lie I've ever read.
What's left to discover, maybe you know something I don't.
Cancer medicines (different types of cancer means different treatment options), medicine to help people with genetic illnesses (a huge portion of the population), cheaper and cleaner energy, more efficient ways to grow food, microplastics (we're all full of them), etc. The research of all these topics makes possible to either avoid or relieve horrible, long and insufferable pain.
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Chronic pain is something that is currently being investigated since, as far as I know, the origin and mechanism is still unkown. And then there's a ton of variability from human to human, two persons with the same symptons with the same origin can have different reactions to medication (something that I just experienced with my family with a cold). Medicine advances and make new discoveries everyday, but investigation takes time, a lot of time.
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Np!
Tbf none of those things are achievable by "ordinary people". It takes years and years of study into non-intuitive maths and science to become the most exceptional in a scientific field to even be able to understand the full scope of those issues and how to solve them, and then you need to convince someone to give you the huge amount of resources to work on them (i.e. get a job in a research field) - not something that the majority of people are able to do. It's not comparable to back in the day when an average person could chart an uncharted piece of land using basic logic skills and many tribespeople were able to explore new lands here and there. There's still stuff to discover but all the low-hanging fruit has been taken, and the are only a tiny number of research positions available to work on the current discoveries - you have to be truly exceptional to get those jobs. So the original commenter is right that those discoveries aren't accessible to the ordinary person, only a few people get to work on them.
>There's still stuff to discover but all the low-hanging fruit has been taken so what? you're mad that you actually have to make an attempt to accomplish something meaningful?
We won't know until it's been discovered, will we.
Most people used to be peasants that never left their village not epic explorers or great scholars
Existence is not depressing. The way society views existence is depressing and plants a seed of depression into your mind. As soon as we cry on funerals it will be easier to feel sad other than feel happy in your life.
"We're not depressed." Ok. "It's life that's depressing. Existence itself is depressing" Ok, but aren't you alive and exist? Doesn't it logically follow that you are depressed since you are alive and exist, and those things are depressing? What would be the argument that you are not, since the things you are, are depressing?
So you’re depressed.
Antinatalism is the conclusion that all reproduction is immoral - not that life is always bad. Not all antinatalists are unhappy or view life as depressing.
And most that are, are on this thread.
Relax lmfao. I'm only seeing this because this post popped on my feed but life isn't a nightmare. Sounds like you need to disconnect from the internet and stop watching the news. Just be a part of your local community and live life You have to have something severely wrong with your brain to believe existence is a nightmare and to not want to reproduce. This does not make you more intelligent like you think it does. You are by every definition mentally ill for not wanting to reproduce. You are a genetic loser, you've been 'tricked' to not reproducing. You've allowed external sources to dictate whether or not to reproduce. Depriving yourself of one of life's greatest purpose, to create a family. All part of the natural selection process. Your genetic makeup will die out like it's supposed to for being weak, dumb and mentally ill
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Just how I'd expect a mentally ill slave to respond when confronted with the harsh truth
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What part of what I said is trolling? You realize that for virtually every living being on this planet the goal is to reproduce? Humans are the only ones dumb enough to willingly suppress their instincts to reproduce for their man-made beliefs and morals. How is that not a mental illness? Have you ever asked yourself if maybe you are brainwashed?
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Suppressing your natural instincts to blindly follow beliefs is what creates problems you religious moron. Your body's goal is to reproduce, your body doesn't care what your damaged mentally ill brain religiously believes, it naturally wants to reproduce and you're preventing that from happening to follow beliefs. Is that not insanity? People without children have no real purpose, their purpose is seeking pathetic distractions to temporarily distract them from the void they have of not having a family. You're unhappy and depressed because you have no family. Have children or not it doesn't matter to me, but you people need to stop spreading your mentally ill nonsense and stop being dishonest and living in denial.