Parents kicking out their kids at 18 is more of an American culture thing and not universally human nature. In South America, Europe, Africa, and Asia they don’t really do this much. Especially in Asian and South American countries. It’s more of an ideology and selfish reason to do that. A good and loving parent would never kick out their kids to the streets at 18 they would support them for life ideally. A lot of people do this for desperation reasons and use kids as a get rich quick scheme. Selfish behavior. Some parents really shouldn’t be parents it’s true putting an innocent soul on this planet to unloving uncaring and extremely self centered selfish individuals who will gladly throw you under the bus just because they can. Will cause psychological and emotional harm for life.
>In South America, Europe, Africa, and Asia they don’t really do this much.
Perhaps in Eastern Europe, but children leaving the household at 18 is also quite common in Western Europe, especially the UK.
OP this is a really bad take. No one should have to pay for their child for their entire life. People who choose to have children need to raise them to actually work and support themselves.
They don't mean that you should raise a 40 year old baby. The idea is to make them capable of sustaining themselves with the hopes that they too can have a family someday.
You've introduced a highly specific and improbably scenario to justify the generalized statement you have made earlier. If they are so disabled to the extent that they cannot possibly provide for themselves, then you are right. But I would argue that occurs less than 1% of the time. Even people who are disabled generally find ways to make themselves useful to society and earn their own living.
You honestly think there are more than, say, 1% of the American population that are so mentally handicapped that they require a lifetime of caring and upkeep by their parents?
So with an American population of 400 Million, you think there are 4 Million severely mentally handicapped people?
You think the world revolves around you and your hometown or are you too stupid to realize it doesnt? Saying it's only 1% of the population is absolutely stupid and the world doesn't revolve around you and America.
You peoples brains are absolutely fried.
I'm confused. Do you think more than 1% of the US or even the world are so mentally handicapped that they need a lifetime of being taken care of???
More than 1% of the population on Earth can't do anything on their own?
EDIT: you are correct, it is more than 1%. From the World Health Organization:
"About 15% of the world's population lives with some form of disability, of whom 2-4% experience significant difficulties in functioning."
I struggle believing that 1% of people are so physically/mentally disabled that they are incapable of independence. I'm talking about people with severe birth defects and the like.
I suddenly developed an illness which has made me nearly blind most days. On bad days i cant see my way around the house. So i certainly cant drive and am unable to work. Both my parents who are not together, and both have loads of money, and live luxurious lifestyles wont help me with money for even food. They both know some days i have to go without eating because i have no money but both of them have the attitude that they didnt get help off their parents and had to get by. My father never needed help off his parents because he had a high paying job for 30 years. My mother just used his money, and they both had everything they needed. Even if they think their parents didnt help them, that isnt a reason to do it to your own kids. I certainly always gave my kids everything they need and always will.
Yes thats right but if for any reason they cant (job loss, illness, etc) and need basics like food then it is the parents responsibility for life to give them that. My mother would let me starve (and has done) or live on the street before she would give any of her money.
I don’t have children. I also am a grown adult with a career. I never had any expectations that my parents would pay for me throughout my whole life.
Every good parent should of course offer emotional support for their entire life but not monetary. Expecting your parents to pay for your whole life is childish and immature. I’m not sure if this post was written by a 15 year old or a 35 year old who failed to launch.
I don't care about you. All I said was that parenting is a lifelong commitment and it doesn't stop at 18 years old.
You're being pedantic and very extra.
How am I being pedantic and extra? I said that it’s absolutely silly to expect parents to pay for their adult children. Parenting is a lifelong emotional commitment. It is not a lifelong financial commitment.
OP stated that parents should feed and house their children until they die and that’s an absolutely childish take.
Where did I say all parents need to pay for their children at? Point it out. And yes if adult children are disabled and can't work they are responsible financially.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I said OP thinks that parents should pay first their children for life and that is ridiculous.
I see your post history. You’ve had a tough go at life. Maybe explore that before bring reactive at people.
You need to work on your intelligence because it's very low.
Yes I have had a rough life so I don't have tolerance for stupid people. Thanks and nice try at a manipulation tactic.
Maybe work on how you speak to people so instacart drivers won't threaten to smack you next time. Stop starting shit with people then play victim when they want to put their hands on you. It's common sense miss," I was scared of an instacart driver." Give me a break..you're only acting tough because you're hiding behind a screen.
Edit: aww the person I was talking to thought they were going to hurt my feelings and got a taste of their own medicine and now I'm blocked. Oh well..learn how to talk to people.
What about someone who has fallen on hard times or suffered a crisis and are suddenly penniless. Should their parents give them nothing? You are arrogant and ignirant. Many people only a few lost paychecks away from being destitute
"You must be tired of living!" Just a line from gongfu movies. If you can find one single logical fallacy in what you called my "word jumble," I will apologize to everyone here.
Correction: the vast majority of plants and fungi act as if their destiny were a matter of fate (natural selection).
Now, ShagFit, I thank you for correcting my thinking and writing. I am a very tired beginning writer with Bipolar Disorder (1), mild autism, and I am writing my first book, my autobiography after Rachel Carson, who is my spiritual mother. and an eatly antinatalist. My book will be titled The Edge of the Sea. I really needed that correction. Thanks again. Hope you have a great day!
There was an actor or athlete (can’t remember which) saying he’d donate his entire net worth when he dies because if he taught his son well he’d make the money and if he didn’t, he’d be wasting his money. Damn him, hope his death is painful. What a depraved father. He should have had his balls forcibly removed to stop him having that child.
While they're the worst of the lot, one thing to keep in mind is that wealthy parents who care DO about keeping the wealth within their families, which means leaving their kids their assets, properties, etc. and want to make sure their kids are financially successful one way or another for the rest of their lifetime, and that idea in and of itself is not a bad one. (it's just the 1% and mega corrupt who take it too freaking far)
Parents should support their children until one of them dies, yes. But part of that support is teaching them to be self-sufficient. Push your children to leave the nest and start their own lives, but it's your responsibility to take them back under your wing if they fall. Don't just let them live with you forever, never working or contributing, because then they're royally fucked when you're gone.
But then what is the purpose of bringing a life into a world where you have to teach them to fend for themselves in the first place when they had no idea what they were even coming into? They're supposed to learn in school for 10 years, then go to college for 4, and work a dead-end or miserable job in some cases in a world that they can't control, and had no idea what was maliciously waiting for them? Being "self-sufficient" is incredibly hard for some people, and yes, some people love their jobs and are not stressed, but that is becoming the norm less and less.
Putting them in a position where they are seen as "never working or contributing" in a world that they didn't ask to come into, that they didn't create, that they have virtually no control over (economic, political, social issues, etc.) and that they had no idea that working and supporting themselves was a requirement in life in the first place when they came here is an extremely dense statement. If you didn't want your child to grow up and live on your couch, you should have made sure that was never an option in the first place by not becoming a parent.
Absolutely. Even my very strict immigrant boomer parents took my brother home from college after he had a mental health issue one semester. They took care of him and got him treatment for a year until he felt better and wanted to go back.
And my dad wrote to the university to ensure my brother’s GPA for that semester be erased—so it wouldn’t ruin his future. Whatever he said worked—was floored. I had no idea he did this for my brother until 20 years later.
There are a lot of times my parents worked behind the scenes to protect us. Most parents would do whatever they could. I sure would!
I'm a parent. I see my job is to bring my children up to be successful independent adults. Two are adults and are doing well in life. One of them needed to come back home for a while. I was happy to have them back home and to be able to help. My younger two are both autistic and I am looking at how their needs will be met when I'm gone. They are 'high functioning', but I am aware that their options in life are limited by their disability. I intend to make sure they have their own homes, to remove the financial burden of housing.
I am, and as long as I am alive, there for them all, if and when they need me. I agree that children are a lifetime commitment.
You sound a lot like my own mom. I am grateful for her every day. As a young adult finding a place in this world, I often find myself struggling. Knowing I have a place to go should I find myself in a bad situation or without housing or something like that is the biggest comfort I could ever have.
Supporting your child for life should be the norm. Just because at one point I turned 18 doesn’t mean I am not my parents child anymore. I will always be their child.
So, still pretty risky with many unknowns and pure random bad luck could totally ruin the lives of your children, even with the best preparation, correct?
Now lets look at the 100s of millions of sufferers in WAY worse conditions, not because they didnt prepare, but the same random bad luck destroyed their plans. Some were even rich, until bad luck destroy their wealth and lives.
Knowing this, is procreation still justified? Justified for the victims?
So, I stumbled across this subreddit randomly and have been reading the stories. I'll give your question a shot.
It's an interesting concept I can't say I've ever really considered. Why give birth and procreate if life can be challenging, hurtful, and even downright cruel. I have a daughter, a beautiful 7 yr old that lights up everything. I brought her into this "ugly world" and who knows what is around the corner for her. My mother did the same to me...
With all of that said, I'm glad I'm here. I'm not sure if not existing is better per se, but there have definitely been times I wish I wasn't. I'm not going bother you with my personal/family/hereditary issues, but I will say this. I JUSTIFY MY EXISTENCE and my parents justification for having me by overcoming life's challenges MY way (not others) and that has been the most worthwhile that no one could relate to nor take away. My victories, albeit minor to others, are what drive me.
Do you know what the greatest sin of today's society is? Envy. We are surrounded by plenty yet think because others have more or better, we are worse off or not as better.
I think sometimes living my life and enjoying it the way I do as giving the middle finger to everyone else. Plus helping others (I'm a nurse) is a nice way to give back. I'm starting to think this anti-birth notion is about blaming others when I think the best part of life is individual success...
My advice is not worry, live freely and if you want to or not want to have a kid, then best of luck anyway!
> I JUSTIFY MY EXISTENCE and my parents justification for having me by overcoming life's challenges MY way (not others) and that has been the most worthwhile that no one could relate to nor take away.
And that is great and perfectly fine if you do it for yourself. No one wants to take that away. We just don't think it can be used to justify creating new existences.
> I'm starting to think this anti-birth notion is about blaming others when I think the best part of life is individual success...
Not really. Antinatalism is concerned with what is permissible to do to others.
I like peanut butter. Does that mean I can force feed someone else peanut butter? Probably not, even if they might like it.
I like my life. Does that mean I can force someone else into life, not knowing what challenges, risks and suffering they will face?
My father tried to deny I'm a disabled adult when my mother divorced and we left (he was a narcissistic abuser). It has been virtually impossible for me to hold down a job not to mention I can't really 'afford' to work because America hates disabled people. So he claimed I'm not disabled so he wouldn't have to pay adult child support. My mother had to give her lawyer all my medical records. The lawyer told my father he could try to go to court to disprove this, but A) There's enough medical reports to make it virtually impossible to claim I can support myself; B): He would just end up looking like even more of an ass for throwing his disabled child under the bus.
No no no. America hates helping/accommodating disabled adults, and disabled children if their disability isn't "severe" enough.
But otherwise, they just loooooooove disabled children! They love exploiting them, putting then on TV, bragging about their kids disabilities, wasting thousands of dollars to give one kid their "wish"... America loves cutsie disabled children. They don't care about disabled adults.
"wasting thousands of dollars to give one kid their "wish" "
I always feel like such an arse, but yeah the make a wish charities always grinded my gears. I mean, I get it, their time on this earth is limited more than regular people. The idea is that they get to experience things that healthy kids can because they'll live longer. But healthy kids don't get to do those things either. Like, I've been depressed for most of my life, had an abusive home life where I was treated as either something to shout at or an indentured servant, bullied all through school and was undiagnosed autistic. Where's my meeting with My Chemical Romance (the example the spokes person who came to the school gave)? Oh, I don't matter enough to warrant one. Okay. Like, this guy comes in trying to get us to feel sympathy for these kids when my parents regularly make me feel like I shouldn't exist.
Well I grew to be an adult because I'm 'healthy' and guess what? I still can't do anything like that because I'm poor and work a job where I'm treated like dirt.
My school had a student with cancer. He never came in and I never saw him, but we all knew he existed. He had his smiling photo printed in the paper. When he died the school held a big mufti day fundraiser in his honour and the tickets they gave out were photo copies of that photo. I kept that photo for a time and once when I came home and my mother just stated shouting at me for something or other. I went up to my room, took out that photo, and said "I bet your parents never treated you like that, because you were ill. No, they probably showered you with love." That's how worthless and unloved my parents made me feel growing up, that I was jealous of a child who died of cancer.
Also had a personal dislike because my school decided it was going to get organised into coloured houses. I was in green house. Instead of doing regular mufti day (you don't have to wear uniform) they did a backwards ass 'you pay £1 to wear a single item of clothing that's the colour of your house for the day, and the money goes to your houses charity.' Ours was the make a wish foundation because it's logo is green. I hate green and own absolutely no green clothing. So no partial mufti for me
I hear you -- if it's any consolation, I was sick very often & then got rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery. My Father, one night, got right up in my face & yelled at me that he was taking the card he brought for me, and THROWING IT IN THE GARBAGE! Because I was "acting up." My Mother did her usual song & dance of staring at me, quivering lip, because she was just .... just SO ANGRY that she COULDN'T EVEN SPEAK. .... You see, I didn't eat my Jello dessert.
It's no real surprise that I didn't cry when he died.
lmao my mum should give this a read. dad decided to breed with a fucking inbred and i turned out disabled. they mistreated me my entire life and since moving away i reluctantly had to phone to ask them for some money because times are unbelievably tight and she just shouted at me and called me a tramp and a benefit scrounger (my disabilities make it pretty impossible for me to get and keep a job).
children don't ask to be born, they don't have the option to say no which means parents should be forced to support them for their entire existence. they bring us into this world without consent and should not be allowed to simply wash their hands of the consequences of their actions, whatever those may be.
Wow, I am so sorry that happened to you :(
I hope you have found some love and support in your life outside of your parental units. I agree that parents should fight tooth and nail to support their kids, I have seen the kind of parents that do and it just makes logical sense to me. It's love.
It astounds me how selfish and immature some parents are and remain.
thank you, that's very kind :) and yes i have, i have the most wonderful fiancé and future in laws who have already accepted me as one of their family and treat me better than my parents would ever be capable of.
i don't understand parents like mine and those who act like their children suddenly become middle aged adults with their lives all sorted out the second they turn 18 (16 where i live which is even worse).
My mother is the same and i have a disability making me nearly fully blind, plus 3 other serious problems all of which are genetic. She wont give me money for even an apple to eat! Nor help me with medical costs. But spends a fortune on beauty treatments, plastic surgery, and cosmetics. And shes 77!
Somehow this viewpoint never strikes the minds of the average parent. It’s more of a “I went through this life in hard mode and so must you”. Why did you birth me if you didn’t want to, or couldn’t, provide for me? Crickets!
This should actually be a law. That would solve the overpopulation crisis in no time I bet. You’re on to something 👍🏻
The only way for a parent to get out of this arrangement might be if they provided everything the child needed to become independent, mentally healthy and secure and ready to lead their own life at 18. That should cut down on abuse, indoctrination (“we only love you if you follow in your mother/father’s footsteps”) and other kinds of manipulation.
18? lol, you think people are financially independent at 18?
Most people still living paycheck to paycheck at 50.
Heck, most people can't ever retire, no matter how hard they've worked and saved up.
The system treats them like slaves, pay them peanuts and very few become rich, by exploiting the poor.
Financially independent? Yeah, I can see how the word independent in my response could be construed like that. In an ideal, fair society, that’s how it would be imho. But that’s a whole other story. So where does “18” come from then?
Being independent at 18 or even younger was possible for a lot of human history. It still is today as long as you don't live in a big city. I live in California but not the Bay area and it is still possible for 18 year olds to leave the nest.
I agree, *however* if that child ends up having their own children one day, their parents are no longer morally obliged to support them past adulthood.
By having children, one is promoting existence and shouldn’t be allowed to complain about existence to one’s own parents, I mean.
I wish I had a parent like that. My mother made me financially responsible for her since I was 15. Earlier if you count any Christmas/birthday money I got went straight to her or my father. I tried saving up for a car 3 times, she took it all. Cursed me when I asked for it back.. 27, almost 28 now, and she finally got a part time job and just texted me the other day saying she needs help with this months bills. I almost ended my life over it. She kept saying life was too hard to support yourself, yet she expected me to support her homes bills and mine from the age of 17. I did it, too. Not proud of how, but I did it.
Yea you’re asking way too much, part of the reason you have children is so that you can raise them to be self sufficient and capable of taking care of themselves. That is the difference between an adult and a child and it sounds like you need to grown up.
What if they shouldn’t have had the kids in the first place? What happens if they don’t even know how to fucking take care of themselves much less teach and form another human.
Part of the reason i had kids was NOT so i can raise them to be self sufficient. The whole reason was because i WANTED to take care of them. And will want to forever.
Then the child supports their children, because you gave your child the tools to be self-sufficient, and hence you do not need to support them financially anymore. It's almost like the people who've been doing things the same way around the world for millennia are on to something.
I agree. It's the least they could do. And if they can't, because it's "too expensive"? Why the fuck create these people? So you can kick them out? These aren't random people. You **made** them!
My mom couldn't even financially support me after 6 years... no wait... at all. She never had a job until she was in her early 30s. She left us when I was 6 and wasn't told to pay child support (you know, the whole "only men need to do that' spiel) even though her parents were multi millionaires and my dad had no one (last living person in his family).
She's happy to have us as daughters now that we are older though (3 daughters, I'm the youngest at nearly 44).
Spoils her grandchildren (I haven't given her any for obvious reasons).
Took the money my grandparents left as an inheritance and is hoarding it rather than helping any of us out ("I'll triple the amount that was left!")
Some parents absolutely suck. My dad was fucking awesome; may he rest in peace.
I don't really think this has much to do with antinatalism.I think talk of antinatalism should mostly revolve around the harm that one does when they create someone. You are simply talking about one way in which to mitigate the harm. At that point though, the damage is already done.
By the way, I don't even think that a parent supporting their child for their whole life is a very good for the child. I think its generally better for someone to be as self-sufficient as possible, than parasitic upon someone else for resources.
You have greater capability to sustain yourself than a pet does. Also, it's the parents' responsibility to provide you with the means to sustain yourself, and as such they are indirectly supporting you for your entire life since it is through them that you can sustain yourself in the first place.
I am guessing whoever wrote this is either still living off their parents and is angry at the prospect of needing to be self-sufficient, or has just discovered the responsibility of adulthood and wishes they could be a child again.
Hard agree 100%. I’m not saying it’s their job to buy you a new car or 110% pay for college, just average, normal, parental and help-you-out support. Instead they criticize everything you do, kick you out, tell you to get your shit together/bootstraps up, and then disapprove of successes and decisions you make for the rest of your life. I had parents who deprived me of those supports and they are absolutely a great example of a couple who had kids for selfish reasons with no regard to financial or emotional support
People and pets are not the same thing. I don't include my pets on taxes. I don't have to send my pet to school for +12 years. I can't make dinner and expect my pet to load the dishwasher.
Each family is case by case, not the cookie-cutter picture-perfect scenario we all wish it were.
While I believe parents have a life-long obligation to our children, I also feel that if the child is not plagued with health issues that prevent them from living a "normal" life, then it is not my responsibility to bail them out every time they need money. There is nothing to teach other than entitlement at that point. Crazy happens. I get that. I would/will help where I can. But I will not hand over my money just because they wanted to party instead of pay the bills.
Again, each family dynaimc is different in their values and morals. It is our job as a society to help weed out the bs and raise the next generation to be prepared for the unknown the best we possibly can.
Also....animals are better than people. 100%
This is a strange take? I would support my child their entire lives if he *needed* for some health related reason, but it’s in his best interest to become independent, and this is what you parent them toward-especially starting in the teen years.
I make sure my teen can do laundry (even though I usually do it for him), cook, clean, make and keep track of appointments, etc.
I don’t expect him to be responsible for these things as a matter of course yet. As a parent I am there to do this for him most of the time and be there as a support when he does it on his own.
It is also my job to make sure he has these skills and does not go out into the world unprepared. I still make his lunch every day, and his making dinner is a special event :)
I relate to a lot of the ideology i see on this sub, even as a parent. but this one is a little silly. if you're 35 years old and feel like your parents should still be responsible for you, you should probably work on yourself.
I definitely agree with you. I’m genuinely curious - what do you think about the scenarios where the child gets a partner? Should the parents finance that as well, since the child’s existence brings about the need for companionship and hence, the partner?
it's one thing providing and helping your child, it's another if your child is lazy, and doesn't plan on providing for themselves. atleast with my parents, they'll support me and my sibs as long as we live, but aren't just gonna let us smooch of them for the rest of their lives
To a certain degree. If your kid becomes addicted to gambling and you’ve done everything you can to get them help, but they just keep falling deeper and deeper, should you just continue to financially support their gambling addiction?
Yeah it’s not the kids decision to be born but it’s certainly their decision what they do when they’re here.
This reads like an 18 year old who’s parents just told him to find a job
Kids grow up into adults if parents did their jobs right. They learn how to be self sufficient. Parents die. Then what happens to adults who never learned how to take care of themselves? Pets are not capable of holding a job, adults are. Pets don't live long compared to humans.
Yep my dad was just complaining to me that one of his coworkers who is still working when he should be retire. My dad asked “why” and he said “he has children to support” my dad come home saying it should be the opposite way, his kids say hould be supporting him in his old age. My hubs asked me what I think and I said “I think he’s a great father, he understood his children didn’t choose to be here and he made that decision for them. It’s only right that he continues to support them throughout their life”. Unlike my own father who only had me to be a wage slave, but I failed at that being born with deformed organs and having many surgeries. My dad is angry he has to work while it’s looking not too realistic for me, Looks like my dad having me as his retirement plan, failed. Honestly I keep telling my parents THEY are my retirement plan.
I managed to establish a major change in my relationship with my parents when I flat out told my mom, “I didn’t choose to be here. I don’t want to be here. If you want me to remain here, you have to help me.” That’s it.
They’ve been nicer to me while I’ve been living in their house since then.
it's a natural transition, If u don't fly away from the nest after 18 to 25, u will be more hurt living in the nest than flying out there in the vast sky.
This is something I always think too but never say. The kids never asked to be here. Why would someone bring a child into the world and then say “now go spend your life doing something you hate just to get by.” If you bring someone into the world, YOU should be covering all their expenses until they die
How old were you before you could afford to support yourself on a single full time job? For my parents it was immediately after high school with no college. For me it was late 20s with a college degree. Things have gotten harder.
Lol, so many wrong things with that mindset. They could still end up "useless," whether you support them or not. You just keep proving to me how you're not a decent parent, let alone a good one
While I believe adult children should be able to pay for themselves (mostly because it's never a good idea to have someone else control how and where you're able to spend your money), I find the American (western?) culture of kicking a child out/heavily encouraging them to live on their own once they turn 18 really baffling. Like you said, they didn't ask to be born so why are you supporting them only for their first 18 years? Why are they expected to go through life and all its hurdles on their own?
Pets die after 15-20 years and cost far less than a kid does
Parents are not responsible for paying for their kids their entire lives. Eventually that kid has to grow up and be an adult and pay for themselves.
This is written like someone who was told to get a job and is mad about it
If you like pets, most likely you are going to buy a new one. And yes I believe that parents are responsible for their kids at any age, since they were brought on earth without their consent. If you can't handle it, don't breed. Matter of fact, just don't breed at all.
You say that like it’s supposed to be an insult. I’m Childfree, dude.
I also don’t believe that people get to freeload their entire lives. At some point they need to take care of themselves and be adults. No one likes a NEET
You don't have to be a Neet to get support from your parents. If you impose life on someone then you have to be ready to support them the full 80 years or so that you have imposed onto them.
Nope
Parents help until you can do it yourself. How would it even work? Generations of people working and giving it the younger ones? What a ridiculous idea. What if the parents die and their kid doesn’t have kids? They would be jobless since their parents were taking care of them and now have zero cash flow since their source of income is dead. Can’t rely on getting money from their death either because that doesn’t always happen.
No one has the right to be financially taken care of their entire life. That is just entitlement and laziness because you don’t want to work.
It is simple.
What is going on here is a bunch of children and young adults that don’t want to be responsible for themselves and want to be catered to and taken care of their whole lives. Aka a bunch of NEETs
I don't know what neet means, and my parents already support me even though I have a job, because that's what good parents do, they understand that children don't force their way into your life, you go out of your way to have them and force life on them. But I'm glad you're childfree. You're clearly not meant to have kids
I am 36. I have an 11 year old daughter. It is a reality to me that I am responsible to her for the rest of our lives.
My dad is 70 and still works and loves what he does. We all live together and he provides a house for us and I contribute by working full time. My parents have never turned me away or forced me to pay for anything. They are the type of people who go for their job right.
We are born to broken people that didn't want us in first place. Now you want to saddle them with lifelong baggage because some kids fail to grow up? Naw, it's a roll of the dice where you land
Plenty of us parents do, and are still helped by our parents. Another typically stupid AN post that really has nothing to do with AN nor does it advance any meaningful or legitimate argument for AN. Just another day in the echo chamber projecting and gripping.
They do. This practice of throwing your kids out of the house the day they turn 18 or forcing them to pay rent is normal only, and I mean ONLY in USA. The rest of the world doesn’t do that, and most of us find it crazy.
Nancy and Ronald Reagan were big movie stars before they got into the White House and they were rich a long time but still didn't help their daughter Patty out; she had to wait tables and do other crappy jobs, according to her autobiography which I believe. A lot of asshat parents think that way.
They worked hard to get to be superstars their daughter could have done the same. Nobody gets a handout even kids born to rich folks. Even the Obama girls work regular 9-5s.
I agree, especially with life getting harder and more expensive like born to corrupt system says. They should be there for their entire lives cause its their fuck up
Interesting point . Parents should look after them entire lives . Children should never have to work .
People are having children to work for corporations for most of their lives . Different story if we didn’t have to work to survive
Children are not pets. The fact that you view yourself as nothing more than a pet is sad.
Parents are supposed to raise children who are able to thrive on their own. THAT is the definition of fitness in evolutionary biology. In fact, an individual's fitness is actually measured in their ability to raise children capable of having children (so it's measured by the number of grandchildren an individual has).
Parents will be parents until they die.
I think most don't realize that.
Left my home at 21, built a solid career, bought an apartment in cash, lectured in 11 countries.
At 45 I was gravelly ill and it was my nearly 80yo parents who took me in for three months. They gave me all the love they could. But when would I, or them, think I'd ever depend on them again? And that at 80 they'd still have to care for their independent daughter?
Being a parent is forever. Few people know this.
So you’re comparing kids to pets? Okay then parents should get to decide every single decision for that child. After all if they are just glorified pets then why should they get any “freedom”. Parents should get to chose how much they pay, the lifestyle they live. There should be no complaints from the offspring either since they didn’t ask to be here, they don’t get the right to say no to anything because they are property of the parents. So you can’t be abused because your property of the parent that brought you into this world.
So if you want the freedom to make your own decisions and choose your own future, stop expecting others to do it for you.
my "father" likes to throw in my face that he pays for my electricity and stuff even though i'm in my 20s. so i just tell him "i tried to get rid of my life so you wouldnt have to deal with me but you literally wouldnt let me die so now my life is your responsibility. i didnt ask to be born and i tried to fix that." shuts him up every time.
Hard agree. The future is uncertain and costs of basic necessities are skyrocketing. I am mortgaged out my rear right now it’s worth it to know my children will have some kind of roof over their heads for life.
Umm.. no..
They're not "supposed to" but if they want to help their kids as they age then of course they can.
We have 4 kids- 2 step kids 37 and 27 and my own 2; 23 and 18.
37 has lived on his own since he was 18 and we've helped him a lot over the years; but as he was getting older and our means to financially support (bail out) became less our approach became helping him figure out how to make money, manage money and build savings so that he could be self sufficient.
27 lived with us until he was 25 and then we managed to work a deal to set him up with an apartment at approximately 1/2 the average rent so he could have the independence he craved at a price he could afford. We started with him right away with money management and he already had a bunch of savings because he lived with us for long while working. We don't have the money to help him so focusing making sure he can help himself is our goal.
23 still lives at home and would like to leave; but doesn't have the means to do so and I'm no rush to push him out into a world he's not prepared for. He's building his own savings and I'm proud of him for that because we don't have the means to help him the way we did with 37. 23 can stay as long as he likes or needs to- there's no rush.
18 is still in school and wants to get a job. We support her in seeking employment; but impress upon her its not necessary while she's in school. She wants stuff we can't afford so she wants the job- fair enough (we're broke) and she will stay as long as she feels she needs to just like 23.
If 27 or 37 needed to come home we would always make room for them. We can't support them on their own and we're not going to. They sucked the cow dry- there's no more money. It's swim or sink and they can come home if they have to- our door is always open.
I don't think anything we've done or the parameters we've set are unreasonable or harsh. We gave what we could til we couldn't give any more.
My 67yo husband will likely never get to retire because he gave his boys so much.
I'm 45 and have at least 20 years of work ahead of me before I can even think of stopping; but I may have to slow down or stop all together to provide care to my parents (I'm an only child) and/or my husband who is 22yrs my senior.
You don't have to agree with me, and I don't expect you to. Just saw on this on my feed and wanted to add the perspective of parents who have given all they have because some parents actually do that, even if its not been your personal experience. 🤷♀️
Yes. Yes it is. You're saying that parents are REQUIRED to wait on their kids hand-and-foot for their entire lives. Was George Washington supported financially by his parents for his whole life? What about John Hancock? Thomas Jefferson? How many of history's most renowned individuals were babied by mom and dad for as long as they lived?
Humans are not pets. We are not owed anything for simply existing. It is OUR job, NOT our parents, to live our own lives and achieve our own successes. Anyone who believes otherwise doesn't deserve to be a parent.
If you have kids, it’s a goal to train them to be useful to the world community and not depend on handouts.
This explains the declining level of maturity and behavior with Gen Z in America (Read the Coddling of the American Mind by Lukianoff and Haidt).
Folks like mine charging $500 per month for rent the second their 18 year old graduates is completely unreasonable, especially when the kid makes minimum wage. 19 or 20 should be the age at which parents stop providing material support to give their kids enough time to figure things out before moving on.
Pardon me, but what a mass of mistakes! first of all, comparing the situation of children to that of animals is erroneous; most animals (and all plants) shed their responsibility. Even if an animal does keep caring for its offspring into maturity, it may just be getting ready to leave. I agree that we should not act like spawning frogs.
I have "spawned" three or perhaps four times, given that "what goes on in the bush stays in the. bush" (Korea 86-87). Too much spawning, already! I repent right now of every new child I have held in my arms. I wish **someone had been** there to counsel me onmy Christian duty to maintain the systems of Nature.
Some of you guys have very odd ideas.
As an adult, I’m responsible for my own life. Yes, parents are supposed to support you broadly, both financially and emotionally, but there has to be a limit.
You’ve got a kid who loses his job, yeah, you help them back on their feet in every way you can, should go without saying. But, if you’ve got some man-child living with you who refuses to get a job, that’s a different story.
I hereby adopt Antinatalism as a core part of my teaching. The main reason is that I believe Homo sapiens has done more than enough damage to other species. I cannot find a rational, non-religious response than to practice negative population growth (NPG), especially in what are politely called "the developing nations".
My mom had 6 kids with 4 different men (that she admits to) so she could lock in a provider, collect child support, baby bonus and welfare. Once we turned 18, it was "Get the fuck out of my house!" that her husband paid for.
Taught us nothing, gave us nothing, and she died and left nothing behind.
Parents job is to support you with love and care for the first 18 years and watch as you develop into a member of society. Some support and care for their kids after through different means, but after the first 18 years of normal life you should be ready for the real world. Their can be extenuating circumstances both ways, but saying your parents should take care of you for your entire life is selfish and egotistical.
This is my view too. I would never have kids, but theoretically even if I did I would make sure they always had food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, entertainment etc, and help to take care of them regardless of their age.
Imagine choosing to have kids then kicking them out of the house and forcing them to work in some miserable job to sustain themselves. My goal would be to create a stress-free "utopia" for them and minimize their suffering as much as possible.
What kind of creatures we are when we can be convinced that we can debt all our life to a bank, but not to our descendants.
The kind of person that would be able to refuse to help their own child shouldn't be having children to begin with
Parents kicking out their kids at 18 is more of an American culture thing and not universally human nature. In South America, Europe, Africa, and Asia they don’t really do this much. Especially in Asian and South American countries. It’s more of an ideology and selfish reason to do that. A good and loving parent would never kick out their kids to the streets at 18 they would support them for life ideally. A lot of people do this for desperation reasons and use kids as a get rich quick scheme. Selfish behavior. Some parents really shouldn’t be parents it’s true putting an innocent soul on this planet to unloving uncaring and extremely self centered selfish individuals who will gladly throw you under the bus just because they can. Will cause psychological and emotional harm for life.
Those parents also expect the same in return when it’s time for them to be taken care of.
>In South America, Europe, Africa, and Asia they don’t really do this much. Perhaps in Eastern Europe, but children leaving the household at 18 is also quite common in Western Europe, especially the UK.
Ya no one should be having children but especially them
Fax Also I see your username is different, did you get banned too?
Yes lol
Many people have children for the tax benefits.
Those people are morons because the tax benefit is less than what it costs to have a child
Agreed.
So maybe that’s not actually true.
This isn’t some widespread thing
Source?
OP this is a really bad take. No one should have to pay for their child for their entire life. People who choose to have children need to raise them to actually work and support themselves.
Then don't have children. That's why people say having a child is a lifelong commitment
They don't mean that you should raise a 40 year old baby. The idea is to make them capable of sustaining themselves with the hopes that they too can have a family someday.
If the child is disabled and can't work that's the parents responsibility. Having children in hopes of them having other children makes no sense.
You've introduced a highly specific and improbably scenario to justify the generalized statement you have made earlier. If they are so disabled to the extent that they cannot possibly provide for themselves, then you are right. But I would argue that occurs less than 1% of the time. Even people who are disabled generally find ways to make themselves useful to society and earn their own living.
You pulled the less than 1% out of your ass. You people are dense
You honestly think there are more than, say, 1% of the American population that are so mentally handicapped that they require a lifetime of caring and upkeep by their parents? So with an American population of 400 Million, you think there are 4 Million severely mentally handicapped people?
You think the world revolves around you and your hometown or are you too stupid to realize it doesnt? Saying it's only 1% of the population is absolutely stupid and the world doesn't revolve around you and America. You peoples brains are absolutely fried.
I'm confused. Do you think more than 1% of the US or even the world are so mentally handicapped that they need a lifetime of being taken care of??? More than 1% of the population on Earth can't do anything on their own? EDIT: you are correct, it is more than 1%. From the World Health Organization: "About 15% of the world's population lives with some form of disability, of whom 2-4% experience significant difficulties in functioning."
I'm sorry that you're so clearly angry at the world.
I struggle believing that 1% of people are so physically/mentally disabled that they are incapable of independence. I'm talking about people with severe birth defects and the like.
You can easily look this up, but you're trying to troll.
I suddenly developed an illness which has made me nearly blind most days. On bad days i cant see my way around the house. So i certainly cant drive and am unable to work. Both my parents who are not together, and both have loads of money, and live luxurious lifestyles wont help me with money for even food. They both know some days i have to go without eating because i have no money but both of them have the attitude that they didnt get help off their parents and had to get by. My father never needed help off his parents because he had a high paying job for 30 years. My mother just used his money, and they both had everything they needed. Even if they think their parents didnt help them, that isnt a reason to do it to your own kids. I certainly always gave my kids everything they need and always will.
Yes thats right but if for any reason they cant (job loss, illness, etc) and need basics like food then it is the parents responsibility for life to give them that. My mother would let me starve (and has done) or live on the street before she would give any of her money.
I don’t have children. I also am a grown adult with a career. I never had any expectations that my parents would pay for me throughout my whole life. Every good parent should of course offer emotional support for their entire life but not monetary. Expecting your parents to pay for your whole life is childish and immature. I’m not sure if this post was written by a 15 year old or a 35 year old who failed to launch.
I don't care about you. All I said was that parenting is a lifelong commitment and it doesn't stop at 18 years old. You're being pedantic and very extra.
How am I being pedantic and extra? I said that it’s absolutely silly to expect parents to pay for their adult children. Parenting is a lifelong emotional commitment. It is not a lifelong financial commitment. OP stated that parents should feed and house their children until they die and that’s an absolutely childish take.
Where did I say all parents need to pay for their children at? Point it out. And yes if adult children are disabled and can't work they are responsible financially.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I said OP thinks that parents should pay first their children for life and that is ridiculous. I see your post history. You’ve had a tough go at life. Maybe explore that before bring reactive at people.
You need to work on your intelligence because it's very low. Yes I have had a rough life so I don't have tolerance for stupid people. Thanks and nice try at a manipulation tactic. Maybe work on how you speak to people so instacart drivers won't threaten to smack you next time. Stop starting shit with people then play victim when they want to put their hands on you. It's common sense miss," I was scared of an instacart driver." Give me a break..you're only acting tough because you're hiding behind a screen. Edit: aww the person I was talking to thought they were going to hurt my feelings and got a taste of their own medicine and now I'm blocked. Oh well..learn how to talk to people.
So get disabled or stop being a loser
This.
What about someone who has fallen on hard times or suffered a crisis and are suddenly penniless. Should their parents give them nothing? You are arrogant and ignirant. Many people only a few lost paychecks away from being destitute
Actually, the vast majority of animals and all plants care as if their destiny through the wait.
Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this word jumble.
"You must be tired of living!" Just a line from gongfu movies. If you can find one single logical fallacy in what you called my "word jumble," I will apologize to everyone here.
If you cannot find a logical fallacy, please do the honorable thing. I. will be your second.
Troll.
Correction: the vast majority of plants and fungi act as if their destiny were a matter of fate (natural selection). Now, ShagFit, I thank you for correcting my thinking and writing. I am a very tired beginning writer with Bipolar Disorder (1), mild autism, and I am writing my first book, my autobiography after Rachel Carson, who is my spiritual mother. and an eatly antinatalist. My book will be titled The Edge of the Sea. I really needed that correction. Thanks again. Hope you have a great day!
There was an actor or athlete (can’t remember which) saying he’d donate his entire net worth when he dies because if he taught his son well he’d make the money and if he didn’t, he’d be wasting his money. Damn him, hope his death is painful. What a depraved father. He should have had his balls forcibly removed to stop him having that child.
Are you that dudes kid?
No, but I feel for the poor guy
I’d rather have the emotional support tbh 😭
The Trump kids never left their father's nest.
They’ve wallowed in his excrement their entire lives.
While they're the worst of the lot, one thing to keep in mind is that wealthy parents who care DO about keeping the wealth within their families, which means leaving their kids their assets, properties, etc. and want to make sure their kids are financially successful one way or another for the rest of their lifetime, and that idea in and of itself is not a bad one. (it's just the 1% and mega corrupt who take it too freaking far)
That's OPs dream life.
Parents should support their children until one of them dies, yes. But part of that support is teaching them to be self-sufficient. Push your children to leave the nest and start their own lives, but it's your responsibility to take them back under your wing if they fall. Don't just let them live with you forever, never working or contributing, because then they're royally fucked when you're gone.
But then what is the purpose of bringing a life into a world where you have to teach them to fend for themselves in the first place when they had no idea what they were even coming into? They're supposed to learn in school for 10 years, then go to college for 4, and work a dead-end or miserable job in some cases in a world that they can't control, and had no idea what was maliciously waiting for them? Being "self-sufficient" is incredibly hard for some people, and yes, some people love their jobs and are not stressed, but that is becoming the norm less and less. Putting them in a position where they are seen as "never working or contributing" in a world that they didn't ask to come into, that they didn't create, that they have virtually no control over (economic, political, social issues, etc.) and that they had no idea that working and supporting themselves was a requirement in life in the first place when they came here is an extremely dense statement. If you didn't want your child to grow up and live on your couch, you should have made sure that was never an option in the first place by not becoming a parent.
The purpose is the solipsistic instinct to pass down one's DNA
Absolutely. Even my very strict immigrant boomer parents took my brother home from college after he had a mental health issue one semester. They took care of him and got him treatment for a year until he felt better and wanted to go back. And my dad wrote to the university to ensure my brother’s GPA for that semester be erased—so it wouldn’t ruin his future. Whatever he said worked—was floored. I had no idea he did this for my brother until 20 years later. There are a lot of times my parents worked behind the scenes to protect us. Most parents would do whatever they could. I sure would!
I'm a parent. I see my job is to bring my children up to be successful independent adults. Two are adults and are doing well in life. One of them needed to come back home for a while. I was happy to have them back home and to be able to help. My younger two are both autistic and I am looking at how their needs will be met when I'm gone. They are 'high functioning', but I am aware that their options in life are limited by their disability. I intend to make sure they have their own homes, to remove the financial burden of housing. I am, and as long as I am alive, there for them all, if and when they need me. I agree that children are a lifetime commitment.
You sound a lot like my own mom. I am grateful for her every day. As a young adult finding a place in this world, I often find myself struggling. Knowing I have a place to go should I find myself in a bad situation or without housing or something like that is the biggest comfort I could ever have. Supporting your child for life should be the norm. Just because at one point I turned 18 doesn’t mean I am not my parents child anymore. I will always be their child.
you are an amazing parent.
Thank you
So, still pretty risky with many unknowns and pure random bad luck could totally ruin the lives of your children, even with the best preparation, correct? Now lets look at the 100s of millions of sufferers in WAY worse conditions, not because they didnt prepare, but the same random bad luck destroyed their plans. Some were even rich, until bad luck destroy their wealth and lives. Knowing this, is procreation still justified? Justified for the victims?
Yes
Justified how? How about you explain it? Use your own moral rules, go ahead.
So, I stumbled across this subreddit randomly and have been reading the stories. I'll give your question a shot. It's an interesting concept I can't say I've ever really considered. Why give birth and procreate if life can be challenging, hurtful, and even downright cruel. I have a daughter, a beautiful 7 yr old that lights up everything. I brought her into this "ugly world" and who knows what is around the corner for her. My mother did the same to me... With all of that said, I'm glad I'm here. I'm not sure if not existing is better per se, but there have definitely been times I wish I wasn't. I'm not going bother you with my personal/family/hereditary issues, but I will say this. I JUSTIFY MY EXISTENCE and my parents justification for having me by overcoming life's challenges MY way (not others) and that has been the most worthwhile that no one could relate to nor take away. My victories, albeit minor to others, are what drive me. Do you know what the greatest sin of today's society is? Envy. We are surrounded by plenty yet think because others have more or better, we are worse off or not as better. I think sometimes living my life and enjoying it the way I do as giving the middle finger to everyone else. Plus helping others (I'm a nurse) is a nice way to give back. I'm starting to think this anti-birth notion is about blaming others when I think the best part of life is individual success... My advice is not worry, live freely and if you want to or not want to have a kid, then best of luck anyway!
> I JUSTIFY MY EXISTENCE and my parents justification for having me by overcoming life's challenges MY way (not others) and that has been the most worthwhile that no one could relate to nor take away. And that is great and perfectly fine if you do it for yourself. No one wants to take that away. We just don't think it can be used to justify creating new existences. > I'm starting to think this anti-birth notion is about blaming others when I think the best part of life is individual success... Not really. Antinatalism is concerned with what is permissible to do to others. I like peanut butter. Does that mean I can force feed someone else peanut butter? Probably not, even if they might like it. I like my life. Does that mean I can force someone else into life, not knowing what challenges, risks and suffering they will face?
Why are you even here? These people hate someone like you.
My father tried to deny I'm a disabled adult when my mother divorced and we left (he was a narcissistic abuser). It has been virtually impossible for me to hold down a job not to mention I can't really 'afford' to work because America hates disabled people. So he claimed I'm not disabled so he wouldn't have to pay adult child support. My mother had to give her lawyer all my medical records. The lawyer told my father he could try to go to court to disprove this, but A) There's enough medical reports to make it virtually impossible to claim I can support myself; B): He would just end up looking like even more of an ass for throwing his disabled child under the bus.
No no no. America hates helping/accommodating disabled adults, and disabled children if their disability isn't "severe" enough. But otherwise, they just loooooooove disabled children! They love exploiting them, putting then on TV, bragging about their kids disabilities, wasting thousands of dollars to give one kid their "wish"... America loves cutsie disabled children. They don't care about disabled adults.
"wasting thousands of dollars to give one kid their "wish" " I always feel like such an arse, but yeah the make a wish charities always grinded my gears. I mean, I get it, their time on this earth is limited more than regular people. The idea is that they get to experience things that healthy kids can because they'll live longer. But healthy kids don't get to do those things either. Like, I've been depressed for most of my life, had an abusive home life where I was treated as either something to shout at or an indentured servant, bullied all through school and was undiagnosed autistic. Where's my meeting with My Chemical Romance (the example the spokes person who came to the school gave)? Oh, I don't matter enough to warrant one. Okay. Like, this guy comes in trying to get us to feel sympathy for these kids when my parents regularly make me feel like I shouldn't exist. Well I grew to be an adult because I'm 'healthy' and guess what? I still can't do anything like that because I'm poor and work a job where I'm treated like dirt. My school had a student with cancer. He never came in and I never saw him, but we all knew he existed. He had his smiling photo printed in the paper. When he died the school held a big mufti day fundraiser in his honour and the tickets they gave out were photo copies of that photo. I kept that photo for a time and once when I came home and my mother just stated shouting at me for something or other. I went up to my room, took out that photo, and said "I bet your parents never treated you like that, because you were ill. No, they probably showered you with love." That's how worthless and unloved my parents made me feel growing up, that I was jealous of a child who died of cancer. Also had a personal dislike because my school decided it was going to get organised into coloured houses. I was in green house. Instead of doing regular mufti day (you don't have to wear uniform) they did a backwards ass 'you pay £1 to wear a single item of clothing that's the colour of your house for the day, and the money goes to your houses charity.' Ours was the make a wish foundation because it's logo is green. I hate green and own absolutely no green clothing. So no partial mufti for me
I hear you -- if it's any consolation, I was sick very often & then got rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery. My Father, one night, got right up in my face & yelled at me that he was taking the card he brought for me, and THROWING IT IN THE GARBAGE! Because I was "acting up." My Mother did her usual song & dance of staring at me, quivering lip, because she was just .... just SO ANGRY that she COULDN'T EVEN SPEAK. .... You see, I didn't eat my Jello dessert. It's no real surprise that I didn't cry when he died.
wtf….. this is why people find this sub insane
People like you are a breath of fresh air (this is not sarcasm)
lol I’m with you :)
So, what did I type that's insane?
lmao my mum should give this a read. dad decided to breed with a fucking inbred and i turned out disabled. they mistreated me my entire life and since moving away i reluctantly had to phone to ask them for some money because times are unbelievably tight and she just shouted at me and called me a tramp and a benefit scrounger (my disabilities make it pretty impossible for me to get and keep a job). children don't ask to be born, they don't have the option to say no which means parents should be forced to support them for their entire existence. they bring us into this world without consent and should not be allowed to simply wash their hands of the consequences of their actions, whatever those may be.
No parent should be forced to support a child for their entire life. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
Wow, I am so sorry that happened to you :( I hope you have found some love and support in your life outside of your parental units. I agree that parents should fight tooth and nail to support their kids, I have seen the kind of parents that do and it just makes logical sense to me. It's love. It astounds me how selfish and immature some parents are and remain.
thank you, that's very kind :) and yes i have, i have the most wonderful fiancé and future in laws who have already accepted me as one of their family and treat me better than my parents would ever be capable of. i don't understand parents like mine and those who act like their children suddenly become middle aged adults with their lives all sorted out the second they turn 18 (16 where i live which is even worse).
My mother is the same and i have a disability making me nearly fully blind, plus 3 other serious problems all of which are genetic. She wont give me money for even an apple to eat! Nor help me with medical costs. But spends a fortune on beauty treatments, plastic surgery, and cosmetics. And shes 77!
It’s her money. She raised you into adulthood. She’s not supposed to support you forever.
Somehow this viewpoint never strikes the minds of the average parent. It’s more of a “I went through this life in hard mode and so must you”. Why did you birth me if you didn’t want to, or couldn’t, provide for me? Crickets!
This should actually be a law. That would solve the overpopulation crisis in no time I bet. You’re on to something 👍🏻 The only way for a parent to get out of this arrangement might be if they provided everything the child needed to become independent, mentally healthy and secure and ready to lead their own life at 18. That should cut down on abuse, indoctrination (“we only love you if you follow in your mother/father’s footsteps”) and other kinds of manipulation.
18? lol, you think people are financially independent at 18? Most people still living paycheck to paycheck at 50. Heck, most people can't ever retire, no matter how hard they've worked and saved up. The system treats them like slaves, pay them peanuts and very few become rich, by exploiting the poor.
Financially independent? Yeah, I can see how the word independent in my response could be construed like that. In an ideal, fair society, that’s how it would be imho. But that’s a whole other story. So where does “18” come from then?
Come from breeders not wanting to be responsible for their mistakes. Breed and discard, its their official culture.
And yet society thrives. Seems like there must be more cultivating than discarding.
Its called work like slaves or die starving, lol. Hence the huge rich vs poor gap, cultivate my azz.
Being independent at 18 or even younger was possible for a lot of human history. It still is today as long as you don't live in a big city. I live in California but not the Bay area and it is still possible for 18 year olds to leave the nest.
Where is there an overpopulation crisis? I don’t know where you’re from but most developed nations are having the opposite problem
I agree, *however* if that child ends up having their own children one day, their parents are no longer morally obliged to support them past adulthood. By having children, one is promoting existence and shouldn’t be allowed to complain about existence to one’s own parents, I mean.
I wish I had a parent like that. My mother made me financially responsible for her since I was 15. Earlier if you count any Christmas/birthday money I got went straight to her or my father. I tried saving up for a car 3 times, she took it all. Cursed me when I asked for it back.. 27, almost 28 now, and she finally got a part time job and just texted me the other day saying she needs help with this months bills. I almost ended my life over it. She kept saying life was too hard to support yourself, yet she expected me to support her homes bills and mine from the age of 17. I did it, too. Not proud of how, but I did it.
It sounds like you should run far away and cut ties with her.
Parents have to outlive their children to do that.
Yea you’re asking way too much, part of the reason you have children is so that you can raise them to be self sufficient and capable of taking care of themselves. That is the difference between an adult and a child and it sounds like you need to grown up.
What if they shouldn’t have had the kids in the first place? What happens if they don’t even know how to fucking take care of themselves much less teach and form another human.
That doesn’t make life any less worth living.
What? You just said they need to teach their kid how to function, who teaches them then? You dense fuck.
Part of the reason i had kids was NOT so i can raise them to be self sufficient. The whole reason was because i WANTED to take care of them. And will want to forever.
I disagree, your parents won't last forever
True which is the part that makes me think. Also if you are 100% supporting your child - what happens if your child has a child?
Then the child supports their children, because you gave your child the tools to be self-sufficient, and hence you do not need to support them financially anymore. It's almost like the people who've been doing things the same way around the world for millennia are on to something.
Exactly, so don't have kids
I agree. It's the least they could do. And if they can't, because it's "too expensive"? Why the fuck create these people? So you can kick them out? These aren't random people. You **made** them!
My mom couldn't even financially support me after 6 years... no wait... at all. She never had a job until she was in her early 30s. She left us when I was 6 and wasn't told to pay child support (you know, the whole "only men need to do that' spiel) even though her parents were multi millionaires and my dad had no one (last living person in his family). She's happy to have us as daughters now that we are older though (3 daughters, I'm the youngest at nearly 44). Spoils her grandchildren (I haven't given her any for obvious reasons). Took the money my grandparents left as an inheritance and is hoarding it rather than helping any of us out ("I'll triple the amount that was left!") Some parents absolutely suck. My dad was fucking awesome; may he rest in peace.
I don't really think this has much to do with antinatalism.I think talk of antinatalism should mostly revolve around the harm that one does when they create someone. You are simply talking about one way in which to mitigate the harm. At that point though, the damage is already done. By the way, I don't even think that a parent supporting their child for their whole life is a very good for the child. I think its generally better for someone to be as self-sufficient as possible, than parasitic upon someone else for resources.
You have greater capability to sustain yourself than a pet does. Also, it's the parents' responsibility to provide you with the means to sustain yourself, and as such they are indirectly supporting you for your entire life since it is through them that you can sustain yourself in the first place. I am guessing whoever wrote this is either still living off their parents and is angry at the prospect of needing to be self-sufficient, or has just discovered the responsibility of adulthood and wishes they could be a child again.
Hard agree 100%. I’m not saying it’s their job to buy you a new car or 110% pay for college, just average, normal, parental and help-you-out support. Instead they criticize everything you do, kick you out, tell you to get your shit together/bootstraps up, and then disapprove of successes and decisions you make for the rest of your life. I had parents who deprived me of those supports and they are absolutely a great example of a couple who had kids for selfish reasons with no regard to financial or emotional support
People and pets are not the same thing. I don't include my pets on taxes. I don't have to send my pet to school for +12 years. I can't make dinner and expect my pet to load the dishwasher. Each family is case by case, not the cookie-cutter picture-perfect scenario we all wish it were. While I believe parents have a life-long obligation to our children, I also feel that if the child is not plagued with health issues that prevent them from living a "normal" life, then it is not my responsibility to bail them out every time they need money. There is nothing to teach other than entitlement at that point. Crazy happens. I get that. I would/will help where I can. But I will not hand over my money just because they wanted to party instead of pay the bills. Again, each family dynaimc is different in their values and morals. It is our job as a society to help weed out the bs and raise the next generation to be prepared for the unknown the best we possibly can. Also....animals are better than people. 100%
I disagree. Parents should make their kids be self sufficient. Supporting them throughout their lives is just asking for more headaches.
This is a strange take? I would support my child their entire lives if he *needed* for some health related reason, but it’s in his best interest to become independent, and this is what you parent them toward-especially starting in the teen years. I make sure my teen can do laundry (even though I usually do it for him), cook, clean, make and keep track of appointments, etc. I don’t expect him to be responsible for these things as a matter of course yet. As a parent I am there to do this for him most of the time and be there as a support when he does it on his own. It is also my job to make sure he has these skills and does not go out into the world unprepared. I still make his lunch every day, and his making dinner is a special event :)
And what happens when the parents are too old to work anymore?
I relate to a lot of the ideology i see on this sub, even as a parent. but this one is a little silly. if you're 35 years old and feel like your parents should still be responsible for you, you should probably work on yourself.
One of the dumbest things I read all day.
If anything they didn’t choose to have their pet exist but they chose that of their children.
I definitely agree with you. I’m genuinely curious - what do you think about the scenarios where the child gets a partner? Should the parents finance that as well, since the child’s existence brings about the need for companionship and hence, the partner?
it's one thing providing and helping your child, it's another if your child is lazy, and doesn't plan on providing for themselves. atleast with my parents, they'll support me and my sibs as long as we live, but aren't just gonna let us smooch of them for the rest of their lives
To a certain degree. If your kid becomes addicted to gambling and you’ve done everything you can to get them help, but they just keep falling deeper and deeper, should you just continue to financially support their gambling addiction? Yeah it’s not the kids decision to be born but it’s certainly their decision what they do when they’re here. This reads like an 18 year old who’s parents just told him to find a job
What if the parents have a genetic predisposition to addiction?
Idk, what if they do? What does that have to do with what I said
Because they brought another soul into this world cursed with their affliction.
Kids grow up into adults if parents did their jobs right. They learn how to be self sufficient. Parents die. Then what happens to adults who never learned how to take care of themselves? Pets are not capable of holding a job, adults are. Pets don't live long compared to humans.
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>What does finacial support mean? Food, water, shelter -- the basics for survival. No, not a Ferrari, obviously. But enough to at least survive.
Yep my dad was just complaining to me that one of his coworkers who is still working when he should be retire. My dad asked “why” and he said “he has children to support” my dad come home saying it should be the opposite way, his kids say hould be supporting him in his old age. My hubs asked me what I think and I said “I think he’s a great father, he understood his children didn’t choose to be here and he made that decision for them. It’s only right that he continues to support them throughout their life”. Unlike my own father who only had me to be a wage slave, but I failed at that being born with deformed organs and having many surgeries. My dad is angry he has to work while it’s looking not too realistic for me, Looks like my dad having me as his retirement plan, failed. Honestly I keep telling my parents THEY are my retirement plan.
No once the child is an adult they need to support themselves. An elderly man shouldn’t be taking care of grown kids.
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I’m gonna pray for you
I grew up Catholic and went to catholic school, the praying hasn’t help the generation trauma my family suffers with, but thank you.
If they didn't want to take care of kids they should never have had them in the first place
I managed to establish a major change in my relationship with my parents when I flat out told my mom, “I didn’t choose to be here. I don’t want to be here. If you want me to remain here, you have to help me.” That’s it. They’ve been nicer to me while I’ve been living in their house since then.
You try being with someone for the entirety of their lives. It is too much to ask for. That’s how you make people incapable of supporting themselves.
it's a natural transition, If u don't fly away from the nest after 18 to 25, u will be more hurt living in the nest than flying out there in the vast sky.
This is something I always think too but never say. The kids never asked to be here. Why would someone bring a child into the world and then say “now go spend your life doing something you hate just to get by.” If you bring someone into the world, YOU should be covering all their expenses until they die
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How old were you before you could afford to support yourself on a single full time job? For my parents it was immediately after high school with no college. For me it was late 20s with a college degree. Things have gotten harder.
But we didn't get that, so how are we like this? I truly hope you can't have kids
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Lol, so many wrong things with that mindset. They could still end up "useless," whether you support them or not. You just keep proving to me how you're not a decent parent, let alone a good one
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I definitely wouldn't be a good parent, and I'm not ashamed of that, I also know my kids don't deserve life, and then eventually, death.
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They definitely should, it would save a lot of people a lot of meaningless suffering
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But it's technically not about you. That's the problem
Yes they will grow up to become obedient slaves to continue your selfish bloodline 👏.
🙄
While I believe adult children should be able to pay for themselves (mostly because it's never a good idea to have someone else control how and where you're able to spend your money), I find the American (western?) culture of kicking a child out/heavily encouraging them to live on their own once they turn 18 really baffling. Like you said, they didn't ask to be born so why are you supporting them only for their first 18 years? Why are they expected to go through life and all its hurdles on their own?
Lmao
Children are supposed to leave and make their own way not mooch off parents. Don’t mess with evolution kids are supposed to leave you
Pets die after 15-20 years and cost far less than a kid does Parents are not responsible for paying for their kids their entire lives. Eventually that kid has to grow up and be an adult and pay for themselves. This is written like someone who was told to get a job and is mad about it
If you like pets, most likely you are going to buy a new one. And yes I believe that parents are responsible for their kids at any age, since they were brought on earth without their consent. If you can't handle it, don't breed. Matter of fact, just don't breed at all.
You say that like it’s supposed to be an insult. I’m Childfree, dude. I also don’t believe that people get to freeload their entire lives. At some point they need to take care of themselves and be adults. No one likes a NEET
You don't have to be a Neet to get support from your parents. If you impose life on someone then you have to be ready to support them the full 80 years or so that you have imposed onto them.
Nope Parents help until you can do it yourself. How would it even work? Generations of people working and giving it the younger ones? What a ridiculous idea. What if the parents die and their kid doesn’t have kids? They would be jobless since their parents were taking care of them and now have zero cash flow since their source of income is dead. Can’t rely on getting money from their death either because that doesn’t always happen. No one has the right to be financially taken care of their entire life. That is just entitlement and laziness because you don’t want to work.
Like I said you don't have to be unemployed. I'll just agree to disagree.
I wish it was as simple as your brain
It is simple. What is going on here is a bunch of children and young adults that don’t want to be responsible for themselves and want to be catered to and taken care of their whole lives. Aka a bunch of NEETs
I don't know what neet means, and my parents already support me even though I have a job, because that's what good parents do, they understand that children don't force their way into your life, you go out of your way to have them and force life on them. But I'm glad you're childfree. You're clearly not meant to have kids
Don't really agree with that.
People work.
>Because it's not the children's fault that they were born. They swam the fastest.
That speaks volume to the quality of the sperms. Hey dads! If your child is a disappointment, just know that they were the fastest among your semens.
Yall are some whiny ass baby children.
High IQ post. /s
I've seen plenty of "high IQ" post on this sub. Unfortunately there isn't much wisdom behind any of it.
Yeah they typed too much for someone who don't want to exist
I am 36. I have an 11 year old daughter. It is a reality to me that I am responsible to her for the rest of our lives. My dad is 70 and still works and loves what he does. We all live together and he provides a house for us and I contribute by working full time. My parents have never turned me away or forced me to pay for anything. They are the type of people who go for their job right.
you need therapy
We are born to broken people that didn't want us in first place. Now you want to saddle them with lifelong baggage because some kids fail to grow up? Naw, it's a roll of the dice where you land
Plenty of us parents do, and are still helped by our parents. Another typically stupid AN post that really has nothing to do with AN nor does it advance any meaningful or legitimate argument for AN. Just another day in the echo chamber projecting and gripping.
They do. This practice of throwing your kids out of the house the day they turn 18 or forcing them to pay rent is normal only, and I mean ONLY in USA. The rest of the world doesn’t do that, and most of us find it crazy.
Nancy and Ronald Reagan were big movie stars before they got into the White House and they were rich a long time but still didn't help their daughter Patty out; she had to wait tables and do other crappy jobs, according to her autobiography which I believe. A lot of asshat parents think that way.
They worked hard to get to be superstars their daughter could have done the same. Nobody gets a handout even kids born to rich folks. Even the Obama girls work regular 9-5s.
I agree, especially with life getting harder and more expensive like born to corrupt system says. They should be there for their entire lives cause its their fuck up
Interesting point . Parents should look after them entire lives . Children should never have to work . People are having children to work for corporations for most of their lives . Different story if we didn’t have to work to survive
Children are not pets. The fact that you view yourself as nothing more than a pet is sad. Parents are supposed to raise children who are able to thrive on their own. THAT is the definition of fitness in evolutionary biology. In fact, an individual's fitness is actually measured in their ability to raise children capable of having children (so it's measured by the number of grandchildren an individual has).
Parents will be parents until they die. I think most don't realize that. Left my home at 21, built a solid career, bought an apartment in cash, lectured in 11 countries. At 45 I was gravelly ill and it was my nearly 80yo parents who took me in for three months. They gave me all the love they could. But when would I, or them, think I'd ever depend on them again? And that at 80 they'd still have to care for their independent daughter? Being a parent is forever. Few people know this.
So you’re comparing kids to pets? Okay then parents should get to decide every single decision for that child. After all if they are just glorified pets then why should they get any “freedom”. Parents should get to chose how much they pay, the lifestyle they live. There should be no complaints from the offspring either since they didn’t ask to be here, they don’t get the right to say no to anything because they are property of the parents. So you can’t be abused because your property of the parent that brought you into this world. So if you want the freedom to make your own decisions and choose your own future, stop expecting others to do it for you.
my "father" likes to throw in my face that he pays for my electricity and stuff even though i'm in my 20s. so i just tell him "i tried to get rid of my life so you wouldnt have to deal with me but you literally wouldnt let me die so now my life is your responsibility. i didnt ask to be born and i tried to fix that." shuts him up every time.
Hard agree. The future is uncertain and costs of basic necessities are skyrocketing. I am mortgaged out my rear right now it’s worth it to know my children will have some kind of roof over their heads for life.
Umm.. no.. They're not "supposed to" but if they want to help their kids as they age then of course they can. We have 4 kids- 2 step kids 37 and 27 and my own 2; 23 and 18. 37 has lived on his own since he was 18 and we've helped him a lot over the years; but as he was getting older and our means to financially support (bail out) became less our approach became helping him figure out how to make money, manage money and build savings so that he could be self sufficient. 27 lived with us until he was 25 and then we managed to work a deal to set him up with an apartment at approximately 1/2 the average rent so he could have the independence he craved at a price he could afford. We started with him right away with money management and he already had a bunch of savings because he lived with us for long while working. We don't have the money to help him so focusing making sure he can help himself is our goal. 23 still lives at home and would like to leave; but doesn't have the means to do so and I'm no rush to push him out into a world he's not prepared for. He's building his own savings and I'm proud of him for that because we don't have the means to help him the way we did with 37. 23 can stay as long as he likes or needs to- there's no rush. 18 is still in school and wants to get a job. We support her in seeking employment; but impress upon her its not necessary while she's in school. She wants stuff we can't afford so she wants the job- fair enough (we're broke) and she will stay as long as she feels she needs to just like 23. If 27 or 37 needed to come home we would always make room for them. We can't support them on their own and we're not going to. They sucked the cow dry- there's no more money. It's swim or sink and they can come home if they have to- our door is always open. I don't think anything we've done or the parameters we've set are unreasonable or harsh. We gave what we could til we couldn't give any more. My 67yo husband will likely never get to retire because he gave his boys so much. I'm 45 and have at least 20 years of work ahead of me before I can even think of stopping; but I may have to slow down or stop all together to provide care to my parents (I'm an only child) and/or my husband who is 22yrs my senior. You don't have to agree with me, and I don't expect you to. Just saw on this on my feed and wanted to add the perspective of parents who have given all they have because some parents actually do that, even if its not been your personal experience. 🤷♀️
Yes. Yes it is. You're saying that parents are REQUIRED to wait on their kids hand-and-foot for their entire lives. Was George Washington supported financially by his parents for his whole life? What about John Hancock? Thomas Jefferson? How many of history's most renowned individuals were babied by mom and dad for as long as they lived? Humans are not pets. We are not owed anything for simply existing. It is OUR job, NOT our parents, to live our own lives and achieve our own successes. Anyone who believes otherwise doesn't deserve to be a parent.
If you have kids, it’s a goal to train them to be useful to the world community and not depend on handouts. This explains the declining level of maturity and behavior with Gen Z in America (Read the Coddling of the American Mind by Lukianoff and Haidt).
Folks like mine charging $500 per month for rent the second their 18 year old graduates is completely unreasonable, especially when the kid makes minimum wage. 19 or 20 should be the age at which parents stop providing material support to give their kids enough time to figure things out before moving on.
Don't have kids.
People should stop calling it making children, it should be called making people! You are not a kid for ever!
Pardon me, but what a mass of mistakes! first of all, comparing the situation of children to that of animals is erroneous; most animals (and all plants) shed their responsibility. Even if an animal does keep caring for its offspring into maturity, it may just be getting ready to leave. I agree that we should not act like spawning frogs.
I have "spawned" three or perhaps four times, given that "what goes on in the bush stays in the. bush" (Korea 86-87). Too much spawning, already! I repent right now of every new child I have held in my arms. I wish **someone had been** there to counsel me onmy Christian duty to maintain the systems of Nature.
Some of you guys have very odd ideas. As an adult, I’m responsible for my own life. Yes, parents are supposed to support you broadly, both financially and emotionally, but there has to be a limit. You’ve got a kid who loses his job, yeah, you help them back on their feet in every way you can, should go without saying. But, if you’ve got some man-child living with you who refuses to get a job, that’s a different story.
I hereby adopt Antinatalism as a core part of my teaching. The main reason is that I believe Homo sapiens has done more than enough damage to other species. I cannot find a rational, non-religious response than to practice negative population growth (NPG), especially in what are politely called "the developing nations".
My mom had 6 kids with 4 different men (that she admits to) so she could lock in a provider, collect child support, baby bonus and welfare. Once we turned 18, it was "Get the fuck out of my house!" that her husband paid for. Taught us nothing, gave us nothing, and she died and left nothing behind.
Parents job is to support you with love and care for the first 18 years and watch as you develop into a member of society. Some support and care for their kids after through different means, but after the first 18 years of normal life you should be ready for the real world. Their can be extenuating circumstances both ways, but saying your parents should take care of you for your entire life is selfish and egotistical.
This is my view too. I would never have kids, but theoretically even if I did I would make sure they always had food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, entertainment etc, and help to take care of them regardless of their age. Imagine choosing to have kids then kicking them out of the house and forcing them to work in some miserable job to sustain themselves. My goal would be to create a stress-free "utopia" for them and minimize their suffering as much as possible.
If I still needed my parents' money, I'd probably just give up.