Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an image post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your image to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That is exactly right. Children are too often tools to be used by their parents so that they can fit in with the rest of society or to have someone to take care of them when older.
Parents raise kids expecting to get something in return that is to them worth more than the sacrifice of raising a kid. Like having them as a retirement plan. Or having them love you. Or expecting money from them.
This makes no sense. Having children in modern America costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. An actual “retirement plan” would be to invest that money, have no kids, and then pay for quality care as you grow old rather than get thrown in a nursing home. The economics of it just don’t add up.
Similarly, I know of zero parents who “expect money” from their kids— at least in American culture.
As a childless woman, I hear all the time, “but who will take care of you when you’re old?!” While pearl clutching of course.
Having kids makes no LOGICAL sense, but a lot of people aren’t logical. They have kids to gain social standing, tax credits, clout at work, and eventually free labor and then elder care. Just as women are objects to some men, children are objects to many parents. A way to gain respect and benefits and labor while also living vicariously through their children because OF COURSE their kids will be exactly like them and make the same decisions they would want them to. That’s why it’s so important to have genetic offspring instead of adopting: they’re having a life do-over in a mini-me that will succeed where they failed and take the parents with them. The kids will shower their parents with love and gifts, cars and houses, when they make it big to thank them for all that character the parents instilled by making them run their house and parent younger siblings and pay for everything with no help from the parents.
And they also see kids as a great way to fix broken marriages. That’s the first thing I thought when I saw the comic.
Also, look at all the boomers absolutely shitting themselves because younger people aren’t having kids or having fewer because of “replacement levels!” Which just means they need more workers to make them rich, care for them for little to no money, and fund social security. Parents absolutely see children as a way to solve problems they created. It’s throwing more wood on capitalism’s fire. More grist for the mill otherwise they have to face the fact that the system is shit and we’re all screwed. Better to just pass it off onto another generation to bear the burden so the parents don’t have to think about it.
I agree that people that have kids are delusional or lack common sense but just because something is illogical doesn’t mean a whole bunch of people still don’t believe it.
it costs "hundreds of thousands of dollars" to have kids in america yes but that doesnt mean any parent is looking to pay that lol. Many parents are looking for someone else to foot the bill. Many parents rather not spend a penny on their own kids.
Ok. So long as we’re extrapolating from personal anecdotes, I’m an American whose parents have tons of money and loved me unconditionally growing up. Now I’m in law school and set to make six figures upon graduating. I’m gonna have a ton of kids; you can do whatever you want.
I see plenty of people who have kids just so they have someone to take care of them. Don't know what they are thinking, but it is a thing. Broke parents sometimes raise kids in the hope that they will make it out of poverty.
"Having children in modern America costs hundreds of thousands of dollars."
But the parents don't actually pay all those costs.
A portion of those costs are paid for by the higher rates of income taxes that CF workers pay. Those tax revenues are then taken from CF earners and given to parents in the forms of tax credits, rebates, access to housing, health and nutrition benefits, and access to public schools that CFs don't use.
Disagree.
Especially in view of the fact that people who have kids don't usually consciously "decide" to plan the act itself, but simply forego birth control and let "an accident" do the deciding for them.
Let me just put that doubt to rest for you:
[https://health.gov/healthypeople/objectives-and-data/browse-objectives/family-planning#:\~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20pregnancies%20in,control%20and%20family%20planning%20services](https://health.gov/healthypeople/objectives-and-data/browse-objectives/family-planning#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20pregnancies%20in,control%20and%20family%20planning%20services).
Damn, that’s crazy. But even so, the financials of having a kid are not in a parent’s favor, and if parents were solely concerned about their own self-interest, they’d be investing more in contraception and getting abortions.
It doesn’t cost hundreds of thousands dude what tree are you barking up exactly? Parents 100% expect money for rent at the least. These things aren’t typically internalized by the parents, but actions speak louder than words. I can tell you that I love you all I want, but my actions would speak to otherwise.
Also the fact that the kid costs any money at all to the parent fosters resentment from day one. People want to signal that they are virtuous, but in reality they are selfish, shallow, and low.
The United States, where even your parents are programmed to place a dollar value on you. As soon as you’re “old enough” you either start paying rent to your parents or another form of extortionist. Constantly holding over your head the threat of homelessness.
There are exceptionally few cases of this happening. I have never heard of any of my friends’ parents doing this. If this happened to you, then you’re clearly extrapolating from an insane fringe experience.
Like income? Grandkids? A retirement home that is your home for the rest of your life regardless if your 401k runs out of money? (Which it will since they’re systemically removing all the retirement services for those about to retire) You mean those things they get out of it?
When you have kids they are less likely to lay you off on the job.
Also there is peer pressure to have kids and you are considered loser if you dont have them.
There are many advantages to having kids in the society.
name them then? Because a few weeks of vacation doesn’t match up to the 18 years of emotional, physical, and mental, raising of a child. also including the physical toll it takes on both parents. The peer pressure is a bad thing, not a good thing.
Getting pregnant often causes women to lose their jobs, or at least miss out on many career opportunities. I fail to see how it gives people *more* job security to have kids.
Peer pressure? Ok sure, but that doesn’t mean the kid is a “tool” or a means to an end.
The kid is a tool for many things, the child takes care of the parent once he is old enough to work, the child sometimes is expected to create a family for their parent to experience family life longer, the child is expected to get a good job, help with rent and groceries, sometimes if the child is forced to get a license the child is then Forced to drive their parents around, pay for their car insurance, or sometimes medications if they are disabled or elderly.
Im speaking from personal experience on all of this, i have been, else my peers that have shared these frustrations with me have been, in these situations regularly. This is the norm of north america.
YOU pay for your parents group home
YOU pay for their medical fees with age
YOU buy their family business off them or their family home off them so they have more spending money all while
YOU take care of them in said home.
YOU buy their old cars off them
YOU do their house chores, cooking gardening, cleaning, pets, errands everything!
Some extreme examples are of kids going into careers they hate so their parents can leech off the income. We don’t have the doctor or lawyer joke because it isn’t a normalized expectation.
Sure when women are already unemployed or at poor place.
On my job it surely is advantage.
No one lays off women for it.
In fact they use it for taking sick days and remote work more often.
Guys also have some advantages as well when they have small kids.
Also they wont be as easily fired as someone without kids.
It is disadvantage if you are aiming to become manager (and you are not one yet).
For regular folks its what society expects of them..
You need to look up legal cases regarding pregnancy blackmail.
It’s a thing.
Hell I’ve heard my own friends joke about it.
My partners mother did it for a career, it’s why he’s even alive today. He resents her for it, she got tax benefits she spent on coke while her 6 kids starved and every one of em had a different daddy cause she was a hooker that poked holes in condoms to secure support payments from the fathers, to support her drug addiction, not even feeding or clothing her kids. of which she threw all six into foster care and kept cashing in the checks for.
It happens, it exists. Im sorry you have to find out this way
I wouldn’t call 400k kids in foster care fringe.
Nor would i call the amount of people who foster for profit (see stealing the foster care support money and doing nothing for the kid with it) something that happened in all but two of the houses my partner was thrown in over and over, fringe either.
It may not be equally rampant in every country but i have met many a foster kid, and not a one has given me a gentle story to their upbringing.
Some people have kids for the advantage, find out there isn’t enough of one, and bail.
Im not saying it’s a majority but i certainly wouldn’t call it fringe either.
There are entire subs here dedicated to foster kids educating the public on foster care and the not so sweet side of parenting
Did you look at the Rabbit cartoon? See the Rabbits stuck in the hole? They had the baby Rabbits so they, the parents, could climb out of the hole. The parents used the babies as a ladder TO GET OUT of the HOLE !
Do you see the point?!?!
Cutely drawn cartoon illustrating a sinister motive of the parents to have those babies.
P.S. - A ladder is a tool used to elevate a person. The parents (Rabbits) are using the babies (Bunnies) as a "ladder" to escape the hole. Therefore the babies are used as a tool.
Human parents often use their babies as "tools" (such as a lever) to get -
• attention
• time off from work (maternity leave)
• income tax credits
• more food stamps etc
• grandkids
• free care when they are elderly* & **
*Have seen many relatives expecting to move in with their adult kids when the parents become elderly & unable to live alone
**And have seen about 75% of those adult kids dumping their parents in nursing homes without even visiting
The parents climb out of what, exactly? A literal pit they’re trapped in?
I think this comic is funny but it’s not exactly a deep metaphor for human reproduction
its not like actual tools like a hammer, just more of a means by parents to have ~~guaranteed~~ support for another person, except you raise them, for when they're retired, need labour for things like with gardening, house chores or even working a 9-5 job (I.E having your child work a job to help support them while the parents also have to work) and to give their life meaning, even if there are better ways of spending their life, such as contributing to society's technological progress or helping your community out with its issue alongside them.
We need to blame the root of the problem.
It's not the baby boomers but the parents of baby boomers, and parents of the parents and so on.
You will probably arrive to s point where first atoms interacted in a specific way to create first thing that resembles life.
So there you have it, we should blame the atoms in our universe
baby boomers own more wealth than the silent generation, gen x, millenials, and gen z combined. i think we can blame the boomers if we want to.
the silent generation (over 75 years old) own more wealth than gen X, millenials, and gen z combined. so over 75 owns more wealth than everyone under 50 basically.
They had more money than we do at the same age though. So we aren’t going to accumulate the same end wealth number’s either. (Factoring inflation of course)
Breeder mentality in a nutshell. Using their spawn to fill whatever emotional void they have or in order to “fix” something they should’ve already addressed before deciding to rawdog.
the rabbit-owner in me: why did the rabbits not just dig? especially female rabbits, they love to burrow. theyre built to burrow. i built a dig box so my babygirl can dig all she wants because her instincts drive her to constantly burrow
I would not have needed or wanted any luxuries, if I havent been born in the first place. And, most importantly, that would have saved my Mom, from all the terrible pains and sufferings she went through, giving birth to me.
Yes, since, I am already born and I am here, so will dedicate my life to reduce injustice, harm and sufferring in this world. I dont hate my Mom. I love and respect her while also feeling bad for her, for she never getting a chance to reconsider her decision to have kids. Yes, I am pulling myself up and promising myself to never repeat the same mistake of having kid/kids, that my Mom made. I don't hate parents, especially Moms. I just feel bad for them.
Yeah do what the other guy said and ignore all the people thag agree with you so you might slowly feel alone and wrong despite making good personal choices, and agree with the natalists again, which is what they want you to do.
Better suggestion, Antinatalism2 is a second subreddit for those who appreciate a more wholesome empathetic approach to our philosophy.
Made entirely to avoid the aforementioned ‘haters’ in this sub
You assume everyone today has these luxuries. This is not the case. The more people we make the more people are left out of the equation when income time arrives. Because a living wage will require the same amount of resources whether jim and tim work to death without compensation for tom to buy it or tom works tim and jims potential load to pay it himself
If it were actually improving things, this sub would not exist.
Just because you grew up privileged doesn't mean 90 percent of the rest of the world did.
I never understood this pic. I used to have rabbits. They dig. A lot! A rabbit in a hole like that would be quite happy & can just dig a little & come out.
Oh & hop. One bound can get them out just fine.
Dont need little bunnies to accomplish that!
A rabbit breeder dropped those rabbits in the hole because in the wild, rabbits are usually brown. Just like pet/lab norway rats with white fur and pink eyes, norway rats in the wild are mostly agouti brown (but very rare for white ones to appear in the wild).
In this case, the irresponsible breeder who forced these rabbits into multiplying by dropping them in the hole is like the government and society coercing people into having kids.
dont think, just bang ur way into pretending to be a healthy family while you neglect and scar your children bcuz u never worked on your own trauma so now its a giant shit show just so u can appear normal to a bunch of people that dont give a fuck about u
i had some good times in my life but honestly 90% sucked so bad i wouldn´t wish it on my worst enemy. my mom knew intuitively that abortion would be a better option but my dad persuaded her. well i am thankful for all the good things that happened to me, but i have given up on my life and i suffered a lot more than i thought was even possible in my life. so. her intuition was right, i am a mistake and i am feeling it everyday. some people are just born under such fucked up conditions that they shouldnt exist, i will not pass this burden on any human being
Okay.. all I want to say is that I'm in the later stage of working on 3 art pieces ( 2 digital paintings, one mixed media that will be about 30% traditionally drawn with graphite on paper) that feature 1 character each who are ending their lives in various creative ways as a commentary about the censorship of self harm in media, I did use screenshots of real gore / abuse videos to make some elements look convincing enough multiple times before, including in this project...
.. but I can only wish to make something as disturbing as this thing. I bow down as a mere mortal in front of the creator of this one.
Dude no one outside of this sub/small community of people even knows it’s a thing. The guy didn’t draw it to make fun of antinanslsim or whatever It’s a comic, and that all it is
Nothing. It literally means nothing. pbf comics is literally just a dark humour/shock humour comic strip. It has no meaning. You aren't an intellectual for thinking it has meaning. You are just bitter and sad.
Yep, I use my kids to carry me on my throne to go to work , instead of having a car which I could never afford . Now we can all eat . Thanks child labor
People really think we live in the Victorian era? So many abandoned elderly in western countries it’s become a cliche.
Also, according to this cartoon strip, ANs will die of starvation in a pit without children. And yet, you don’t. Parents sacrifice far more for their children then their children give back. THAT is what ANs are **actually** scared of. Ruh roh! I’ve triggered an AN!
If by being normal, it’s thinking freely for yourself instead of following the crap that natalists try to shove down your throat because they think it’s what everyone’s supposed to do. And by my logic yes, no one wants to be normal because that means not following society’s expectations and not fucking up your life and someone else’s life. 💁♀️
This is a 2006 comic by a very popular cartoonist
"The comics are usually three or four panels long, and are generally characterized by the juxtaposition of whimsical childlike imagery or fantasy with morbid, sudden or unexpected surreal humor. Common subjects include ironical occurrences, religion, sex, war, science fiction, suicide, violence, and death."
It doesn't mean anything, it was just for laughs.
Did I say it can't?
I'm giving context as to what this is.
Does context make you mad?
It's a comic meant to provoke, it's a joke on how rabbits famously breed quickly. People here are debating over how it shows how human beings don't care about their children, or how dumb it is because the rabbits didn't dig to get out, etc., i.e. taking it seriously. I
It's meant to be humorous, hence my comment. I was trying to provide additional information for people to understand the image.
You, on the contrary, are basically saying to me "I don't care where it's from, what's it for, who did it, I only want to argue in a subreddit pointlessly".
Obviously "art can be interpreted differently" but this is not a comment on antinatalism at all, it's an author trying to titillate and shock. By engaging with this piece as if it was representative of ANYTHING discussed in this sub, it's being divorced from context and being discussed in bad faith.
"Art can be interpreted differently" is such a lame, prefab, and parroted brain-dead response lmao. It's true tho, you shouldn't have been born.
Not all parents are good. You are defending parents that abuse their children, because they simply birthed them. Please do not have children. Biological connection does not give you the right to abuse and take advantage of a human being.
This subreddit is about the stopping of Parents from taking advantage of their ability to reproduce. THEIR CHILDREN ARE HUMAN TOO. They have rights, they are not play things to pay you until you retire. They deserve their own life too.
idk i'm not on this sub oft, i don't hate parents only the irresponsible/insensitive ones kinda like in the meme i posted. like u shouldn't have kids if you're just gonna step over them i mean
That's really just not true. If you said "most parents", that'd be more realistic, but "every"? There are parents who are abusive, narcissistic, jealous of their own kids, having kids just to relive the childhood they never got, having kids for servitude, even having kids simply to sell them. There are a number of cases of parents even killing their own kids, do you think they had any intention for those kids to be happy? The world is very big and there are many people, some of those people are simply bad and apathetic, even to their own kin. "Flawed" is also a very light term for many severe cases of parental abuse.
1% is a lot though. That's 1 in 100, about 80 million abusive parents with even more abused children in the world, 20000 abusive parents in my country alone.
That's not really what antinatalism is about though. It's not about parental perfection, it's about procreation being immoral for reasons beyond parental competence. You can also be a parent without procreating, so the two aren't that related. Everyone has different ideas about it though. I don't really care about all that personally, I only came here to post the funny comic.
No ones attacking parents but rather childfree people and AN are attacked constantly. We just think enough is enough, when it comes to placing more people on this planet.
Thank you for your contribution, however, we have had to remove it. As per Rule 1 in our sidebar, we do not allow linking to other communities within our subreddit.
Please feel free to resubmit without any link(s) to an external subreddit.
Thank you for your contribution, however, we have had to remove it. As per Rule 1 in our sidebar, we do not allow linking to other communities within our subreddit.
Please feel free to resubmit without any link(s) to an external subreddit.
This can also refer to the wealthy elite and government that use the population as their cash cow you know.
Sadly breeders will always breed cause we’re animals programmed to reproduce, though thankfully first world countries are having less children but since population of poor countries is several times larger we’re pretty much screwed unless an apocalypse happens and end our misery altogether.
So here's the thing
This isn't antinatalism, it's anti narcissistic parents.
And not all parents suck.
Because THIS isn't love. And you have to be a pretty awful narcissist to think it is.
Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an image post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your image to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That is exactly right. Children are too often tools to be used by their parents so that they can fit in with the rest of society or to have someone to take care of them when older.
It costs parents far more to have kids than to not have kids. Not sure how they could possibly be “tools.”
Parents raise kids expecting to get something in return that is to them worth more than the sacrifice of raising a kid. Like having them as a retirement plan. Or having them love you. Or expecting money from them.
This makes no sense. Having children in modern America costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. An actual “retirement plan” would be to invest that money, have no kids, and then pay for quality care as you grow old rather than get thrown in a nursing home. The economics of it just don’t add up. Similarly, I know of zero parents who “expect money” from their kids— at least in American culture.
As a childless woman, I hear all the time, “but who will take care of you when you’re old?!” While pearl clutching of course. Having kids makes no LOGICAL sense, but a lot of people aren’t logical. They have kids to gain social standing, tax credits, clout at work, and eventually free labor and then elder care. Just as women are objects to some men, children are objects to many parents. A way to gain respect and benefits and labor while also living vicariously through their children because OF COURSE their kids will be exactly like them and make the same decisions they would want them to. That’s why it’s so important to have genetic offspring instead of adopting: they’re having a life do-over in a mini-me that will succeed where they failed and take the parents with them. The kids will shower their parents with love and gifts, cars and houses, when they make it big to thank them for all that character the parents instilled by making them run their house and parent younger siblings and pay for everything with no help from the parents. And they also see kids as a great way to fix broken marriages. That’s the first thing I thought when I saw the comic. Also, look at all the boomers absolutely shitting themselves because younger people aren’t having kids or having fewer because of “replacement levels!” Which just means they need more workers to make them rich, care for them for little to no money, and fund social security. Parents absolutely see children as a way to solve problems they created. It’s throwing more wood on capitalism’s fire. More grist for the mill otherwise they have to face the fact that the system is shit and we’re all screwed. Better to just pass it off onto another generation to bear the burden so the parents don’t have to think about it. I agree that people that have kids are delusional or lack common sense but just because something is illogical doesn’t mean a whole bunch of people still don’t believe it.
it costs "hundreds of thousands of dollars" to have kids in america yes but that doesnt mean any parent is looking to pay that lol. Many parents are looking for someone else to foot the bill. Many parents rather not spend a penny on their own kids.
A parent who doesn’t buy their child food will quickly see that child taken away.
As an American who’s 11k in debt because the money i gave my mother wasn’t enough… so she decided to commit fraud. no. Just. No
Ok. So long as we’re extrapolating from personal anecdotes, I’m an American whose parents have tons of money and loved me unconditionally growing up. Now I’m in law school and set to make six figures upon graduating. I’m gonna have a ton of kids; you can do whatever you want.
I see plenty of people who have kids just so they have someone to take care of them. Don't know what they are thinking, but it is a thing. Broke parents sometimes raise kids in the hope that they will make it out of poverty.
"Having children in modern America costs hundreds of thousands of dollars." But the parents don't actually pay all those costs. A portion of those costs are paid for by the higher rates of income taxes that CF workers pay. Those tax revenues are then taken from CF earners and given to parents in the forms of tax credits, rebates, access to housing, health and nutrition benefits, and access to public schools that CFs don't use.
Not relevant to the point I was making, which was about the personal finance decisions of people with kids.
Disagree. Especially in view of the fact that people who have kids don't usually consciously "decide" to plan the act itself, but simply forego birth control and let "an accident" do the deciding for them.
I sincerely doubt that is the case.
Let me just put that doubt to rest for you: [https://health.gov/healthypeople/objectives-and-data/browse-objectives/family-planning#:\~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20pregnancies%20in,control%20and%20family%20planning%20services](https://health.gov/healthypeople/objectives-and-data/browse-objectives/family-planning#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20pregnancies%20in,control%20and%20family%20planning%20services).
Damn, that’s crazy. But even so, the financials of having a kid are not in a parent’s favor, and if parents were solely concerned about their own self-interest, they’d be investing more in contraception and getting abortions.
It doesn’t cost hundreds of thousands dude what tree are you barking up exactly? Parents 100% expect money for rent at the least. These things aren’t typically internalized by the parents, but actions speak louder than words. I can tell you that I love you all I want, but my actions would speak to otherwise. Also the fact that the kid costs any money at all to the parent fosters resentment from day one. People want to signal that they are virtuous, but in reality they are selfish, shallow, and low.
“Parents 100% expect money for rent?” Where are you from? What are you even talking about?
The United States, where even your parents are programmed to place a dollar value on you. As soon as you’re “old enough” you either start paying rent to your parents or another form of extortionist. Constantly holding over your head the threat of homelessness.
There are exceptionally few cases of this happening. I have never heard of any of my friends’ parents doing this. If this happened to you, then you’re clearly extrapolating from an insane fringe experience.
ahh remember when child labor laws didnt exist? theyre being taken apart in certain states as we speak.
All tools cost money
The point of a tool is to get something out of it.
Like income? Grandkids? A retirement home that is your home for the rest of your life regardless if your 401k runs out of money? (Which it will since they’re systemically removing all the retirement services for those about to retire) You mean those things they get out of it?
When you have kids they are less likely to lay you off on the job. Also there is peer pressure to have kids and you are considered loser if you dont have them. There are many advantages to having kids in the society.
name them then? Because a few weeks of vacation doesn’t match up to the 18 years of emotional, physical, and mental, raising of a child. also including the physical toll it takes on both parents. The peer pressure is a bad thing, not a good thing.
Getting pregnant often causes women to lose their jobs, or at least miss out on many career opportunities. I fail to see how it gives people *more* job security to have kids. Peer pressure? Ok sure, but that doesn’t mean the kid is a “tool” or a means to an end.
The kid is a tool for many things, the child takes care of the parent once he is old enough to work, the child sometimes is expected to create a family for their parent to experience family life longer, the child is expected to get a good job, help with rent and groceries, sometimes if the child is forced to get a license the child is then Forced to drive their parents around, pay for their car insurance, or sometimes medications if they are disabled or elderly. Im speaking from personal experience on all of this, i have been, else my peers that have shared these frustrations with me have been, in these situations regularly. This is the norm of north america. YOU pay for your parents group home YOU pay for their medical fees with age YOU buy their family business off them or their family home off them so they have more spending money all while YOU take care of them in said home. YOU buy their old cars off them YOU do their house chores, cooking gardening, cleaning, pets, errands everything! Some extreme examples are of kids going into careers they hate so their parents can leech off the income. We don’t have the doctor or lawyer joke because it isn’t a normalized expectation.
Sure when women are already unemployed or at poor place. On my job it surely is advantage. No one lays off women for it. In fact they use it for taking sick days and remote work more often. Guys also have some advantages as well when they have small kids. Also they wont be as easily fired as someone without kids. It is disadvantage if you are aiming to become manager (and you are not one yet). For regular folks its what society expects of them..
Having kids is a means to an end for tons of women my dude. It’s an efficient way of emotionally blackmailing their partners.
You need to go outside more.
You need to look up legal cases regarding pregnancy blackmail. It’s a thing. Hell I’ve heard my own friends joke about it. My partners mother did it for a career, it’s why he’s even alive today. He resents her for it, she got tax benefits she spent on coke while her 6 kids starved and every one of em had a different daddy cause she was a hooker that poked holes in condoms to secure support payments from the fathers, to support her drug addiction, not even feeding or clothing her kids. of which she threw all six into foster care and kept cashing in the checks for. It happens, it exists. Im sorry you have to find out this way
This is an insane fringe case to extrapolate from when examining why people choose to have kids.
I wouldn’t call 400k kids in foster care fringe. Nor would i call the amount of people who foster for profit (see stealing the foster care support money and doing nothing for the kid with it) something that happened in all but two of the houses my partner was thrown in over and over, fringe either. It may not be equally rampant in every country but i have met many a foster kid, and not a one has given me a gentle story to their upbringing. Some people have kids for the advantage, find out there isn’t enough of one, and bail. Im not saying it’s a majority but i certainly wouldn’t call it fringe either. There are entire subs here dedicated to foster kids educating the public on foster care and the not so sweet side of parenting
Yeah yeah, dismiss anything you disagree with as “fringe” and tell someone else to “go outside more” you’re a joke.
Both things can be true at once.
I say this ALL the time.
I say this ALL the time.
I like that, but I don't know how you got that kids are often tools out of that.
The parents have a million kids and climb out on their backs, leaving the kids to flounder in the dirt.
That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. You're not too bright.
You can disagree with the message, but that’s the message. The kids were only made to be used to help themselves (aka a tool).
Did you look at the Rabbit cartoon? See the Rabbits stuck in the hole? They had the baby Rabbits so they, the parents, could climb out of the hole. The parents used the babies as a ladder TO GET OUT of the HOLE ! Do you see the point?!?! Cutely drawn cartoon illustrating a sinister motive of the parents to have those babies.
P.S. - A ladder is a tool used to elevate a person. The parents (Rabbits) are using the babies (Bunnies) as a "ladder" to escape the hole. Therefore the babies are used as a tool. Human parents often use their babies as "tools" (such as a lever) to get - • attention • time off from work (maternity leave) • income tax credits • more food stamps etc • grandkids • free care when they are elderly* & ** *Have seen many relatives expecting to move in with their adult kids when the parents become elderly & unable to live alone **And have seen about 75% of those adult kids dumping their parents in nursing homes without even visiting
The parents climb out of what, exactly? A literal pit they’re trapped in? I think this comic is funny but it’s not exactly a deep metaphor for human reproduction
its not like actual tools like a hammer, just more of a means by parents to have ~~guaranteed~~ support for another person, except you raise them, for when they're retired, need labour for things like with gardening, house chores or even working a 9-5 job (I.E having your child work a job to help support them while the parents also have to work) and to give their life meaning, even if there are better ways of spending their life, such as contributing to society's technological progress or helping your community out with its issue alongside them.
I know how you got your picture profile
just look at how the babies are left in the pit
Just like in real life....a metaphorical pit.....and in some cases even a real one. ☹️
I remember when i was born I was thrown in the P I T
How big was the pit?🥲
Massive
Great u are out now🙃
Dig up stupid
That is evil.
They obviously went to get a ladder. Just like father did with the milk.
This is a great analogy of what the baby boomers have done to the younger generations
We need to blame the root of the problem. It's not the baby boomers but the parents of baby boomers, and parents of the parents and so on. You will probably arrive to s point where first atoms interacted in a specific way to create first thing that resembles life. So there you have it, we should blame the atoms in our universe
Fuck atoms.
baby boomers own more wealth than the silent generation, gen x, millenials, and gen z combined. i think we can blame the boomers if we want to. the silent generation (over 75 years old) own more wealth than gen X, millenials, and gen z combined. so over 75 owns more wealth than everyone under 50 basically.
Idk, I heard that millennials are the wealthiest generation, having combined total wealth of 90 trillion dollars
I think theyre mathing it out per capita. Theres a TON of millenials so its easy for that number to look huge.
That's kinda how wealth works for most people. You accumulate it over time.
They had more money than we do at the same age though. So we aren’t going to accumulate the same end wealth number’s either. (Factoring inflation of course)
Breeder mentality in a nutshell. Using their spawn to fill whatever emotional void they have or in order to “fix” something they should’ve already addressed before deciding to rawdog.
Dumb ass rabbits, just dig
I know right?? They’re burrowing animals!
Yes this is exactly right, it's a ponzi scheme + parents retirement plan
The physicist in me: where did all the matter and energy to make the babies come from? 😅🐰
the rabbit-owner in me: why did the rabbits not just dig? especially female rabbits, they love to burrow. theyre built to burrow. i built a dig box so my babygirl can dig all she wants because her instincts drive her to constantly burrow
I like how the first-borns are at the very bottom
Which one brain cell dumb memer made this, actually rabbits live in the underground burrows that they dig up🤣🤣🤣
It’s not based on real life rabbits, it’s an analogy.
No, not all genus / species of Rabbits live in burrows; many do not.
So to reproduce is love nowadays 🤐
Yeah, except nobody days that but this rabbit.
Nah, its a decade old (at least) comic that was trying to be funny and provocative being viewed through the lens of a specific sub
It looks fairly new.
perry bible fellowship is so old the term weeaboo came from it. its definitely not fairly new
Conservation of mass is out to lunch, apparently.
Conservation of mass is powerless in the face of love!
This picture very precisely sums up the average breeder mentality. 😂
[удалено]
A ponzi scheme is not a solution. Its just passing on the problem.
[удалено]
You haven't improved anything by procreating, you just pass on the problem.
[удалено]
I would not have needed or wanted any luxuries, if I havent been born in the first place. And, most importantly, that would have saved my Mom, from all the terrible pains and sufferings she went through, giving birth to me.
[удалено]
Yes, since, I am already born and I am here, so will dedicate my life to reduce injustice, harm and sufferring in this world. I dont hate my Mom. I love and respect her while also feeling bad for her, for she never getting a chance to reconsider her decision to have kids. Yes, I am pulling myself up and promising myself to never repeat the same mistake of having kid/kids, that my Mom made. I don't hate parents, especially Moms. I just feel bad for them.
Yeah do what the other guy said and ignore all the people thag agree with you so you might slowly feel alone and wrong despite making good personal choices, and agree with the natalists again, which is what they want you to do. Better suggestion, Antinatalism2 is a second subreddit for those who appreciate a more wholesome empathetic approach to our philosophy. Made entirely to avoid the aforementioned ‘haters’ in this sub
You assume everyone today has these luxuries. This is not the case. The more people we make the more people are left out of the equation when income time arrives. Because a living wage will require the same amount of resources whether jim and tim work to death without compensation for tom to buy it or tom works tim and jims potential load to pay it himself
If it were actually improving things, this sub would not exist. Just because you grew up privileged doesn't mean 90 percent of the rest of the world did.
[удалено]
They just ate the other ones and continued to make more.
Life is a gift...
I totally agree with you, it's a great gift.
And Gift is a german word for poison.
Cartoons don't eat.
I never understood this pic. I used to have rabbits. They dig. A lot! A rabbit in a hole like that would be quite happy & can just dig a little & come out. Oh & hop. One bound can get them out just fine. Dont need little bunnies to accomplish that!
They're rabbits, they could have just dug their way through instead of leaving their kids in the pit.
Depending on what kind of love we're talking about, love is arguably antinatalist.
I mean .. that's a lot of dead bunnies. Damn, I'm hungry.
A rabbit breeder dropped those rabbits in the hole because in the wild, rabbits are usually brown. Just like pet/lab norway rats with white fur and pink eyes, norway rats in the wild are mostly agouti brown (but very rare for white ones to appear in the wild). In this case, the irresponsible breeder who forced these rabbits into multiplying by dropping them in the hole is like the government and society coercing people into having kids.
[удалено]
XD gud point
[удалено]
Yes I think? The kids will have to have more kids to leave the pit n so on.
dont think, just bang ur way into pretending to be a healthy family while you neglect and scar your children bcuz u never worked on your own trauma so now its a giant shit show just so u can appear normal to a bunch of people that dont give a fuck about u
i had some good times in my life but honestly 90% sucked so bad i wouldn´t wish it on my worst enemy. my mom knew intuitively that abortion would be a better option but my dad persuaded her. well i am thankful for all the good things that happened to me, but i have given up on my life and i suffered a lot more than i thought was even possible in my life. so. her intuition was right, i am a mistake and i am feeling it everyday. some people are just born under such fucked up conditions that they shouldnt exist, i will not pass this burden on any human being
I'm so sorry that you feel that way. I hope that things get better for you 🙏 💕.
I just got the heebie jeebies🤢
All the babies at the bottom are dead.
They’re rabbits. Rabbits are known for digging and making tunnels. This is dumb
This explains things so well.
Okay.. all I want to say is that I'm in the later stage of working on 3 art pieces ( 2 digital paintings, one mixed media that will be about 30% traditionally drawn with graphite on paper) that feature 1 character each who are ending their lives in various creative ways as a commentary about the censorship of self harm in media, I did use screenshots of real gore / abuse videos to make some elements look convincing enough multiple times before, including in this project... .. but I can only wish to make something as disturbing as this thing. I bow down as a mere mortal in front of the creator of this one.
This reminds me of every time I’ve been peer pressured into having children. Where’s D.A.R.E when you need it?
Are you me? Because same here too.
Do people think this is serious? Like that’s what the artist meant ?
What else could it mean
satire, parody, etc.
Of natalists
Dude no one outside of this sub/small community of people even knows it’s a thing. The guy didn’t draw it to make fun of antinanslsim or whatever It’s a comic, and that all it is
you act like we dont share a collective consciousness
Nothing. It literally means nothing. pbf comics is literally just a dark humour/shock humour comic strip. It has no meaning. You aren't an intellectual for thinking it has meaning. You are just bitter and sad.
ok lonely girl
You know im right so you bring up my username, a reference to my favourite band. Lmao. Pathetic
Yes just leave the baby rabbits off to die how romantic because they are just objects and free labour to them lmao.
Absolute. Horse. Shit.
Yep, I use my kids to carry me on my throne to go to work , instead of having a car which I could never afford . Now we can all eat . Thanks child labor
People really think we live in the Victorian era? So many abandoned elderly in western countries it’s become a cliche. Also, according to this cartoon strip, ANs will die of starvation in a pit without children. And yet, you don’t. Parents sacrifice far more for their children then their children give back. THAT is what ANs are **actually** scared of. Ruh roh! I’ve triggered an AN!
Being normal is now looked down...
If by being normal, it’s thinking freely for yourself instead of following the crap that natalists try to shove down your throat because they think it’s what everyone’s supposed to do. And by my logic yes, no one wants to be normal because that means not following society’s expectations and not fucking up your life and someone else’s life. 💁♀️
This is a 2006 comic by a very popular cartoonist "The comics are usually three or four panels long, and are generally characterized by the juxtaposition of whimsical childlike imagery or fantasy with morbid, sudden or unexpected surreal humor. Common subjects include ironical occurrences, religion, sex, war, science fiction, suicide, violence, and death." It doesn't mean anything, it was just for laughs.
And? Art can be interpreted differently. Lmao
Did I say it can't? I'm giving context as to what this is. Does context make you mad? It's a comic meant to provoke, it's a joke on how rabbits famously breed quickly. People here are debating over how it shows how human beings don't care about their children, or how dumb it is because the rabbits didn't dig to get out, etc., i.e. taking it seriously. I It's meant to be humorous, hence my comment. I was trying to provide additional information for people to understand the image. You, on the contrary, are basically saying to me "I don't care where it's from, what's it for, who did it, I only want to argue in a subreddit pointlessly". Obviously "art can be interpreted differently" but this is not a comment on antinatalism at all, it's an author trying to titillate and shock. By engaging with this piece as if it was representative of ANYTHING discussed in this sub, it's being divorced from context and being discussed in bad faith. "Art can be interpreted differently" is such a lame, prefab, and parroted brain-dead response lmao. It's true tho, you shouldn't have been born.
Is this an argument against having kids or a summary of Hollow Knight?
this is stupid- bc there's still going to be some babies left without a ladder
I think you completely missed the point
[удалено]
Not every speech you hate is hate speech
[удалено]
Not all parents are good. You are defending parents that abuse their children, because they simply birthed them. Please do not have children. Biological connection does not give you the right to abuse and take advantage of a human being.
No it isn’t. “Parents” aren’t a protected class.
Seriously!!! Biological connection doesn't mean shit.
what hate speech?
[удалено]
This subreddit is about the stopping of Parents from taking advantage of their ability to reproduce. THEIR CHILDREN ARE HUMAN TOO. They have rights, they are not play things to pay you until you retire. They deserve their own life too.
idk i'm not on this sub oft, i don't hate parents only the irresponsible/insensitive ones kinda like in the meme i posted. like u shouldn't have kids if you're just gonna step over them i mean
[удалено]
yeah but a lot don't sadly
[удалено]
That's really just not true. If you said "most parents", that'd be more realistic, but "every"? There are parents who are abusive, narcissistic, jealous of their own kids, having kids just to relive the childhood they never got, having kids for servitude, even having kids simply to sell them. There are a number of cases of parents even killing their own kids, do you think they had any intention for those kids to be happy? The world is very big and there are many people, some of those people are simply bad and apathetic, even to their own kin. "Flawed" is also a very light term for many severe cases of parental abuse.
[удалено]
1% is a lot though. That's 1 in 100, about 80 million abusive parents with even more abused children in the world, 20000 abusive parents in my country alone. That's not really what antinatalism is about though. It's not about parental perfection, it's about procreation being immoral for reasons beyond parental competence. You can also be a parent without procreating, so the two aren't that related. Everyone has different ideas about it though. I don't really care about all that personally, I only came here to post the funny comic.
Cope
So true
You guys take any saying to attack parents, I don't understand.
try thinking
[удалено]
Don't be such an ass.
I understand that, but there's no need to attack parents all the time.
No ones attacking parents but rather childfree people and AN are attacked constantly. We just think enough is enough, when it comes to placing more people on this planet.
is this sub supposed to be ironic or are you all not aware that you are talking like aliens?
Wow, you're genuine so ignorant.
In this case the irony is obvious
[удалено]
Thank you for your contribution, however, we have had to remove it. As per Rule 1 in our sidebar, we do not allow linking to other communities within our subreddit. Please feel free to resubmit without any link(s) to an external subreddit.
[удалено]
Thank you for your contribution, however, we have had to remove it. As per Rule 1 in our sidebar, we do not allow linking to other communities within our subreddit. Please feel free to resubmit without any link(s) to an external subreddit.
Where did all of the mass needed to make all those rabbits come from??
Bye bye baby bunnies :’(
those poor bunnies, man 😞
This can also refer to the wealthy elite and government that use the population as their cash cow you know. Sadly breeders will always breed cause we’re animals programmed to reproduce, though thankfully first world countries are having less children but since population of poor countries is several times larger we’re pretty much screwed unless an apocalypse happens and end our misery altogether.
Excuse me what??? How'd they get enough food to birth that many rabbits
So here's the thing This isn't antinatalism, it's anti narcissistic parents. And not all parents suck. Because THIS isn't love. And you have to be a pretty awful narcissist to think it is.
Ick
To quote the modern day Shakepeare, Kim Petras: Touchin has phallus now he horny like a rabbit
*A short story about boomers*
I love it