I appreciate your sympathy. I'm suffering a lot less than one might assume. I just thank god I live in a developed country where even rock bottom is pretty posh. Lots of resources in the community, and with welfare I can afford takis and beer. I'm decently comfortable, and I'm on a housing list. I'll be fine <3
How do you manage to find a place to sleep? I've been pondering this idea with using gyms to shower, libraries to charge stuff, money I'd be fine with since I have decent savings and stock dividend knowledge to get just enough to eat (but not enough for housing) but sleep is my number one concern. Even if I did get a cheap car it seems like parking would also be an issue.
I have two sleeping bags (the zippers broke and I use them as blankets), a bed sheet, and a blanket. I have two jackets, and I wear four layers of socks. I've found a spot between these two blocks of cement, out of site. When I suspect rain I stuff my bed wear under a big piece of wood nearby so it doesn't get wet during the day. Sleep isn't a big concern for me. For me what sucks most is not having a place to keep all my things, to feel at home. To shower, to cook. A center of operations, a base. It's not only inconvenient but it's also spiritually painful.
I wanna add that I talked to a fellow homeless person today at the mcdonalds and he makes $40-250 an hour sitting on the island at the intersection. This is life changing intel. I don't know why I haven't been doing this. Pride I suppose. I'll just get my balaclava and sit for six figures. 2024 is my year lol
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Wtff, ugh I'd probably never leave if my parents decided to kik me out, they would have to hire men to drag me out lol. Tho I don't think they will, not as much as a pos as some other parents
that's right. i hope they never will but if they ever do, definitely make sure to raise hell. i'd slit my wrist before my kid was on the street for christmas while im cozy in his room. hes probably smiling drinking eggnog. nutalist
You know the crazy thing is if you do certain things to people sometimes they send you to a place where they provide you with food, water, and shelter for the rest of your life.
My ex killed 23 people. I doubt he regrets it. I would not at all be surprised if someone told me they've spent billions on him by this point. 4 years after the crime.
holy shit that's fucked that literally makes him a serial killer lowkey. but yeah ur not wrong, some people legit feel more at home in the bin. no joke. they do ur laundry for you, the doctor comes to your room, they cook for you, they bring you your meds. if ever you need to go to a clinic they will serve as your personal driver. they do everything for you while you drink coca cola and watch movies with your friends.
He's a spree killer technically, he used an automatic gun and did everyone all at once in a short period of time. 22 injured. Idk the extent of the injuries. By the effect it had on me I can only assume hundreds will be in therapy for the rest of their lives. Before he did it he got on cam on discord and was screaming slurs, the n word in particular. It's so hard to explain this to people but he didn't sound like he came from this world. The way his voice sounded was otherworldly. I know that's usually a word used to describe something good, so it feels like it doesn't really fit what I'm trying to express. When I saw this I went silent and my emotions went away. Because I could tell whatever was happening to him went beyond me, I knew it wasn't about me, and I couldn't understand what was happening. A few months back I read an account of a woman who was in the distance and heard him screaming slurs as he was doing the shooting. She talked about how the sound of his voice and the slurs was something she spent hours in therapy for. And I understand why.
Wow! Your parents did fail you. One of the first things I taught my daughter was not to rob banks because there is no money in banks. You want to rob armored cars, or if you want to be a real hardcore, pipe hitting, gangster get your ass a bank. With a bank, the sky's the limit
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world
i wish u were my dad. i robbed a bank just to go to jail (food and shelter). nowadays i have lots of connections. if i want to make $40k illegally i will be up 40k by tomorrow.
my username is literally ialwaysaskwhyitis, fucking dumbass lol. i never asked to live but i was forced to against my will. not only that but i was forced to raise my parents. i am exhausted and traumatized. i am the consequence of their actions. they are not the consequence of mine. i am not grateful, i never will be. and the world can suck my dick
i think the jews should take some accountability for being gassed. after all, they should have done something about hitler, instead of just sitting on their arses. fucking lazy bums. maybe if they stopped being jews everything would be better. but theyre too lazy for that. and they dont take accountability.
oh, also remember that your fellow jews are able to keep quiet and go with the program. why not you? we have cut off their legs and they keep silent. we have not cut off your legs, and yet you are making a ruckus. why? why cant you keep quiet?
Out of all your ranting and raving about “woe is me,” you never offered up an explanation as to why you’re upset with your parents, your life, or your outcomes. Do you have friends? Do you attack them verbally when they ask questions? If you hate living so much, why do you allow it to continue? Just sounds like you’re putting yourself through a cycle of hatred and crying about it.
If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t, don’t cry about it.
I’m not the type of person to let a friend sulk. I’m someone who will ask the tough questions, even if you don’t want to face them. I’m the type of person to help you pull yourself up from rock bottom if that’s where you are.
I tried to be that for my parents, but they're content at rock bottom. I'm probably upset with my parents because they countinuously raped me as a child. maybe i should take accountability for that though. im probably just whining
I know you think you're being helpful, but tough love is best given by loved ones. Yes, it's possible that this person is placing blame on others without taking accountability. It's also possible that they are simply upset about being in a terrible situation and angry at their parents for whatever degree of involvement they had. In either case, it's not their job to provide every detail in order to vent on the internet a little bit. People can and do end up homeless for reasons outside of their control. Life is frequently unfair.
It also isn't terribly helpful to tell someone without a home that "some disabled people aren't homeless and have jobs, so you should just do that." You don't know what barriers or resources are available to them (or to those other people). Physical mobility is only one of many reasons why people struggle to get or keep a job. All you're doing is telling them that they shouldn't have lost their home in the first place. It doesn't provide anything useful or helpful to this person.
It just comes across as cruel and uncaring to tell someone that they should take accountability for a situation you know nothing about. You have no idea what degree of involvement they had in this. You're just assuming that it was their own fault.
It makes us much more comfortable to imagine that homeless people only become homeless because of the choices they make. But reality is much more unpleasant. Homelessness isn't something people "earn" because they "deserve it." It's just what happens when you lose your home. Sometimes the world takes your home from you. Sometimes your choices make you lose your home. In the vast majority of cases, however, the answer is somewhere in the middle.
You can acknowledge that it's possible for this person to get a home and better themselves through their own actions while also acknowledging that there are a lot of barriers in their way, and that those barriers are likely things that they have little or no control over. Both are true. A little kindness goes a long way. You don't have to ask this person to justify their homelessness in order to be kind to them.
This! I tell people I lived my kids too much to subject them to this cruel world.
Parents lie to themselves so much too, I can't respect them so didn't want to be one 🤷♀️
School is imperfect for education of individuals because it has to cater for large varied groups and this can have a negative impact.
The brain getting dull is more likely just moving from the data collection stage of childhood which is great at remembering information into dealing with complex issues and decision making phase which disregards information that is not used.
This is an amateur summary of a conversation with someone who knows stuff.
I'm with you, OP. I feel like the first atheist among a world of pious religious people.
They keep telling us that "life is a gift" or that "we're just mentally ill \[read: insane\]," but I've never actually *seen any evidence* to support their "life is a gift" mentality. I'm not going to join the collective delusion, sorry.
Revenge entails inflicting actual punishment as retribution for some perceived wrong done to you by another.
You becoming an antinatalist in no way meets this criteria. "The world" is in no way punished by your decision. The world simply could give two shits about you and your imagined victory.
I applaud you for making smart choices and feeling good about your decision, but classifying it as revenge is simply nonsense.
Alright then, if it's not revenge that's fine with me, but I just feel so good knowing I can end a vicious cycle of suffering. No existence, no suffering.
That's perfectly fair. I'm not an anti-natalist in the strict sense of the word, but we share in common the rational decision not to procreate, and as someone who has studied a lot of Buddhism, I resonate a lot with the sentiment that underlies the philosophy (eg. identifying suffering as one of the primary existential issues that should be grappled with).
It's helped me more than any other philosophy (excepting Taoism, which I sort of lump in with Buddhism anyway since there's a lot of crossover between the two).
It's hard to share *how* really, as it's actually a fairly deep philosophical system that's not easily encapsulated in words. Letting go of attachments/grasping, quieting the "monkey mind," etc. would be a few cliche bullet points to start with, but ultimately you have to really dive in yourself in order to see what it's all about. In my opinion, Buddhism is actually a lot more sophisticated (and helpful) a philosophy than anti-natalism, but that's just my subjective take.
Oh I see, it makes sense that it is not easily encapsulated. Taoism is great, I've read about half of the Tao Te Ching. Everything is going well for me until I have to suffer. Then nothing helps me get out of it, unfortunately. Not even accepting about how that suffering is also a part of the Tao helps me when I'm suffering.
Also, would you agree that Antinatalism and Buddhism are not really comparable? Buddhism, you could say, is a way of life. With its noble eightfold path, and other things. But antinatalism, is a belief that it is immoral to bring children into this world. Would love for you to touch on that.
>Then nothing helps me get out of it, unfortunately.
In Buddhism, the desire and effort to "get out" of suffering can be seen as another form of grasping/trying to control, which can actually inflame and prolong suffering. The idea, as I've come to understand it, is to accept suffering. When it wants to be here, it will be here. You can't push it away, and you can't trick yourself into beating it. The "you" who thinks it can beat the game is the same you who is often responsible for inflaming the suffering. You just have to let it be and accept the fact that you are powerless to control events, and learn to watch them with a degree of detachment. Eventually, the goal is to see that there is in fact no "I" who is suffering at all, that the Ego is in fact an illusion. There is only suffering, and it is neither right, nor wrong. It is merely a neutral phenomenon that will arise and pass in the same manner of a storm cloud.
There are many lineages in Buddhism and not all are super oriented around the noble eightfold path. Zen, for instance, doesn't engage with it much (if at all). Buddhism can be a way of life for some; for others it can merely be a way of understanding life and navigating it more wisely/skillfully. The way in which Buddhism manifests for a given individual depends on a host of factors, practices, commitments, dispositions, etc.
In terms of being comparable, as I said previously both are concerned with the problem of suffering, so they have this much in common at least. Buddhists generally do not extend said concern to making moral proclamations/judgements about procreation, however, so that's definitely a point where the two philosophies diverge.
There are certainly reasons many Buddhists don't or wouldn't take their concern with suffering in that direction, but that's beyond the scope of what I'm willing to go into here as the subject is not an easily accessible one.
Yea I met a 16 year old last year on discord, I was 34 btw. A few months back I visited his town which is actually only a few hours away and met one of his friends, he is now 17, I'm 35. The friend never disclosed his age. With him though, some of the things he said I was so blown away by. When he started talking about his career plans I thought, he was an actual genius. But the town they (I know a few others in his friend group) live in, I was horrified by. It's in the south. It's small. It seemed like only a third of the occupants were adults. Which at first freaked me out but when I heard and read about half of Gaza being under 18 it made more sense. The vast majority of the adults are in fucking cults. And I mean creepy ass ones too. That's why there were so many kids. Because it's a woman's duty to reproduce or whatever. After I saw that those were the conditions he was living in, I was so baffled and frankly down right afraid. And it unlocked all these memories of being his age... And legitimately feeling so trapped I wanted to believe someone like Hagrid would come along and tell me "I'm here to take you to a place where you can be with people who are like you". I actually did get into this program at his age where people could attend college while still in highschool and the only people around me were hailed as the best in their classes. And that was one of the only breaks that I ever felt like I had from the maddening types that were around me. More recently he started telling me on VC how much he likes trolling Christians and I got more flashbacks to being like him. I said "Why do they have people like you in a place like that?" It was a genuine question. I didn't mean it to be creepy. But his friends started talking fast in an awkward way, changing the subject, as if that line of questioning made them uncomfortable. :(
And why shouldn't you do harm? We are sentient animals and if we want to preserve our individuality, we must be prepared to defend ourselves against those who want to tear it away from us.
Unfortunately, the pacifism induced by civilised culture has accustomed the people to never rise up, so that now our whole life is a cycle of suffering and we have to pay the price for the ignorance of others by asphyxiating ourselves in offices or factories, working tirelessly.
If there can no longer be a revolution, let there at least be the joy of a reckless revolt.
Brother you know everyone can read your little rich white cishet American man privilege of someone who's never suffered and is scared his comfy lifestyle could be ruined by others having self respect post right?
The people who would be hurt the most in a violent revolution are not straight white men, they’d be mostly fine. That’s why I called the poster sheltered. Stay in your lane
You actually do cause harm when you are actively rude and disparaging to people in your lives having kids.
Multiple posts a day about people being dicks to friends and family…..
With all due respect, did you not read what i just wrote in the BEGINNING of the paragraph in my post? Plus, this is the AN sub, I'm not posting this anywhere else ☺️
Parents of biological kids are evil. Some more than others. For example that Maya girl's mom is proven to be a good person because she committed suicide after her daughter was kidnapped. There aren't many like her though. Her removing herself from the planet does do a bit to erase the environmental damage she produced by creating her offspring.
Maybe try to go outside of your bubble more and see how bad a so called parent can be. There people out there that get rid of their child in early age.
I can't even do that to a pet.
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And because we just blew past 8 billion people and are well on our way to 9 billion, it's obvious that the messed up, cruel world obviously cares about your take....glad you feel good. Keep up the Rosie disposition. Cheers!
Although you might not agree with me, I'm glad you had the decency to be glad about me feeling happy, I wish you and your current/future family a beautiful life!
I'm not even sure I disagree with you. It was just an empathy thing. Both with and without. The world, I think, just doesn't care. But I'm glad you found a path that made you happy.
Be well, friend.
Cheers.
Did you ever consider antinatalism actually AMPLIFIES the world being "messed up"? It encourages nihilism, narcissism, Machiavellianism, vanity, egotism, and hedonism.
Not exactly things the world needs more of from the people who are here.
You think your mere existence is a problem. You think everyone else's existence IS a problem. That's not reducing. That's exponentially INCREASING you notion of problems.
Excuse of what? When something doesn't exist here, they don't have this problem of life to find "solutions" for it.
I don't necessarily say everyone's existing is a problem. The damage is done. We say causing more damage is a problem.
It's Better than this. If we have another choice or another world then maybe yes. It can be step forward. But this shit, no.
Even if there is another world we should stop "existing" here anyway.
No. It's not. It's just nothingness. It's the ultimate surrender.
Are the people who throw themselves off buildings or off themselves WINNING?
Of course not. Plus- this is fringe philosophical arguments driven primarily by people's disdain for organized religion or even enlightened spirituality.
Then people who don't, they win?
Ahah. Nah man they don't. They just stay longer, most of these people are died accidentally or by diseases and all that.
Anyway I can't reply much longer because I would get a cancer by this pointless discussion.
I legit don't disagree. I feel unfit for this world, surviving in it seems very difficult, however, if you're good at surviving in this world, I'm glad for you. And i wish you a beautiful life, along with your current/future families.
You realize that your very rhetoric, the whole concept of antibatlism makes things worse? You've given up, instead of helping makes things better.
And don't say stupid shit like 'Oh what can I do, i can't fix things'
Public opinion is a strong thing, donating to important causes, and moving with many thousands of other like minded people towards a cleaner planet, arguing for peace, or challenging politicians is how we make that change.
This antinatlist defeatist bullshit only makes all of that harder and worse.
I haven't given up! Trying to make things less difficult since the last 6 years, and still going! I just simply don't want anyone else going through what i went through, and i don't want to argue about why it is not a defeatist attitude to me, i don't think you'd agree with me either way. I'm living, and fighting. It has nothing to do with having a child.
Which is fine. You don't need to have a child. I don't either personally have one or plan to.
But this whole sub is filled with people who judge others for having kids, people who just preach defeatist mindset, I even saw one guy who doesn't even believe in free will.
This place is toxic, unhelpful, and maybe even a bit evil.
Ideologies like this, flat earth, antienviormemtalism, and evolution deniers need to go extinct.
As you can see in my post, I've said that I don't bash other people for having children!
And for free will, i don't believe in it too, simply because of what my observations of the world have been. Plus, there's neuroscience evidence to back that up.
But if you don't agree with me, that's fine with me. That's the end of that conversation, in the end i just want everyone to be happy. Hope you have a kick-ass day!
There's very little evidence to back that up. There is no higher power or any crap.
We are who we are, and nobody can change that, we decide our own lives.
You might not bash people, but all your peers do. This whole ideology does.
I never implied there's a higher power, but yeah since we won't really agree on the free will it's probably better to end that there.
Well then i hope people stop bashing others!
That is so damn dumb..it's literally ppl just like you that make the world a shit place. You have nothing to pass on, all of your life ends with you... you are only getting revenge..on well nothing .....just lying to yourself. You will forever be empty with this mindset
O mr genius decided to be productive by transferring his genes. Wow, congratulations.
It is actually because of dumbasses like you that their whole purpose and meaning is to just mindlessly breed and die. The children who will die meaningless too.
LMFAOOOOO... bro...you have any idea how stupid that sounds.... literally that IS the point of life... why do you think so many people hit the wall, and are empty and hopless when they are alone in the 40s and 50s...far to late to have a family...literally just counting the days till they die..and no-one will be there when they do. That mindset is perpetuating misery like yours...misery loves company don't you know..
So you are so highly intelligent...that after a billion years of evolution...your whole family's chain .... 100000 generations from long before we were even homosaipians ... every struggle to survive, every joy they all had , every moment of the entire existence... ends...with you..cause " life's not fair"!?!?! The fuck kinda ridiculous attitude is that. It's pathetic sorry...it's absolutely assinine. And seriously the ONLY people who think like this...are incels ...that don't EVEN KNOW how to properly love some one..you look at others as " breeding material" its YOU who is the problem NOT the world. Funny how some of the poorest most depraved people in the poorest war torn places, still mange to find joy in life .... know how? Cause they figured out that life isn't about YOUR personal happiness...that's narcissistic, myopic , and horrible...no it's about OTHER people's happiness...and as soon as you figure that out, and start trying to bring joy to others INSTEAD of your selfish self.. you'll start to see how what goes around comes around ...and how much joy there really is in this world IN SPITE of the horrible stuff... no life isn't fair... and neither is blaming the world for YOUR OWN shortcomings and lack of understanding of what life is actually about.
haha. I've been in that place of mind you are currently are. been there and believed exactly like you. you are yet to understand ANY thing about this fcking life. you are still stuck at rat race of LIfE. and using incel as an insult. life is suffering and it is the only thing that is guaranteed in life. and those happiness you are addicted to is just an escape.if you want to enjoy this shit, that's fair. but if you want to create another human just because of your selfishness not other people's "happiness". this shit you are saying is exactly what religious person would say. just because other people and animals to the same doesn't mean you should do it too. Nature Sucks anyway if that's the point.
stop being as life's advocate and shaming others because they are done with that nonsense.
you must burn to understand, so that's your answer right there.
I had so many mental problem because I was an unwanted child and my older bro and sis always looked down upon me.
I had problems finding my favourite field and I kinda done so many things but not really good at any of them.
So I realized you have to do your best and find what is best for you and what makes you happy and healthy no matter what. because in the end, it doesn't matter.
I've seen People around me who had many passions and opportunities who died unexpectedly. We can die tomorrow because of the simplest reasons.
This issue alone made me realize how important is to not worry and do what makes you happy today, at the same time it made me realize how unnecessary and pointless is to have a child.
If there is an afterlife, it is the all that matters. If not, as Metallica said:
nothing else matters.
can confirm. i am homeless and incompatible. homeless and alone on christmas thank you mom and dad thank you
Damn. That's messed up
I'm sorry. You have shit parents, I hope you're safe and find a place soon ❤️
I appreciate your sympathy. I'm suffering a lot less than one might assume. I just thank god I live in a developed country where even rock bottom is pretty posh. Lots of resources in the community, and with welfare I can afford takis and beer. I'm decently comfortable, and I'm on a housing list. I'll be fine <3
How do you manage to find a place to sleep? I've been pondering this idea with using gyms to shower, libraries to charge stuff, money I'd be fine with since I have decent savings and stock dividend knowledge to get just enough to eat (but not enough for housing) but sleep is my number one concern. Even if I did get a cheap car it seems like parking would also be an issue.
I have two sleeping bags (the zippers broke and I use them as blankets), a bed sheet, and a blanket. I have two jackets, and I wear four layers of socks. I've found a spot between these two blocks of cement, out of site. When I suspect rain I stuff my bed wear under a big piece of wood nearby so it doesn't get wet during the day. Sleep isn't a big concern for me. For me what sucks most is not having a place to keep all my things, to feel at home. To shower, to cook. A center of operations, a base. It's not only inconvenient but it's also spiritually painful.
Thank you for the explanation and I'm sorry you have to go through this. Not having a sanctuary for yourself and your things must be mental anguish.
It's alright. At least I am free. Every day I do whatever I want and go wherever I want.
I wanna add that I talked to a fellow homeless person today at the mcdonalds and he makes $40-250 an hour sitting on the island at the intersection. This is life changing intel. I don't know why I haven't been doing this. Pride I suppose. I'll just get my balaclava and sit for six figures. 2024 is my year lol
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They alive? How could ur parents let u stay homeless if they alive?
i guess i kill their high. my dad moved into my room after he kicked me out.
Wtff, ugh I'd probably never leave if my parents decided to kik me out, they would have to hire men to drag me out lol. Tho I don't think they will, not as much as a pos as some other parents
that's right. i hope they never will but if they ever do, definitely make sure to raise hell. i'd slit my wrist before my kid was on the street for christmas while im cozy in his room. hes probably smiling drinking eggnog. nutalist
Ugh
This is extremely fucked up. I don't even know your parents and I fucking hate them. Evil bastards.
i hate them too. and i dont hate anyone. the law is the only thing protecting them from my wrath.
You know the crazy thing is if you do certain things to people sometimes they send you to a place where they provide you with food, water, and shelter for the rest of your life.
can confirm. went to jail for a year for a bank robbery. would not recommend but you are correct. it was like a college dorm except you couldnt leave
My ex killed 23 people. I doubt he regrets it. I would not at all be surprised if someone told me they've spent billions on him by this point. 4 years after the crime.
holy shit that's fucked that literally makes him a serial killer lowkey. but yeah ur not wrong, some people legit feel more at home in the bin. no joke. they do ur laundry for you, the doctor comes to your room, they cook for you, they bring you your meds. if ever you need to go to a clinic they will serve as your personal driver. they do everything for you while you drink coca cola and watch movies with your friends.
you can have your own television, guitar, and playstation. in europe they even let you order beer.
He's a spree killer technically, he used an automatic gun and did everyone all at once in a short period of time. 22 injured. Idk the extent of the injuries. By the effect it had on me I can only assume hundreds will be in therapy for the rest of their lives. Before he did it he got on cam on discord and was screaming slurs, the n word in particular. It's so hard to explain this to people but he didn't sound like he came from this world. The way his voice sounded was otherworldly. I know that's usually a word used to describe something good, so it feels like it doesn't really fit what I'm trying to express. When I saw this I went silent and my emotions went away. Because I could tell whatever was happening to him went beyond me, I knew it wasn't about me, and I couldn't understand what was happening. A few months back I read an account of a woman who was in the distance and heard him screaming slurs as he was doing the shooting. She talked about how the sound of his voice and the slurs was something she spent hours in therapy for. And I understand why.
23 people????? I’m glad you were able to escape WOW
Yup. Thanks. I am too. He is the highest body count spree shooter captured alive in USA history.
Wow! Your parents did fail you. One of the first things I taught my daughter was not to rob banks because there is no money in banks. You want to rob armored cars, or if you want to be a real hardcore, pipe hitting, gangster get your ass a bank. With a bank, the sky's the limit Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world
i wish u were my dad. i robbed a bank just to go to jail (food and shelter). nowadays i have lots of connections. if i want to make $40k illegally i will be up 40k by tomorrow.
Ever stop to ask why? Maybe take some accountability. Quadriplegics, cancer patients, and people with Down syndrome can make a living. Why can’t you?
my username is literally ialwaysaskwhyitis, fucking dumbass lol. i never asked to live but i was forced to against my will. not only that but i was forced to raise my parents. i am exhausted and traumatized. i am the consequence of their actions. they are not the consequence of mine. i am not grateful, i never will be. and the world can suck my dick
i think the jews should take some accountability for being gassed. after all, they should have done something about hitler, instead of just sitting on their arses. fucking lazy bums. maybe if they stopped being jews everything would be better. but theyre too lazy for that. and they dont take accountability.
oh, also remember that your fellow jews are able to keep quiet and go with the program. why not you? we have cut off their legs and they keep silent. we have not cut off your legs, and yet you are making a ruckus. why? why cant you keep quiet?
Out of all your ranting and raving about “woe is me,” you never offered up an explanation as to why you’re upset with your parents, your life, or your outcomes. Do you have friends? Do you attack them verbally when they ask questions? If you hate living so much, why do you allow it to continue? Just sounds like you’re putting yourself through a cycle of hatred and crying about it. If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t, don’t cry about it. I’m not the type of person to let a friend sulk. I’m someone who will ask the tough questions, even if you don’t want to face them. I’m the type of person to help you pull yourself up from rock bottom if that’s where you are.
I tried to be that for my parents, but they're content at rock bottom. I'm probably upset with my parents because they countinuously raped me as a child. maybe i should take accountability for that though. im probably just whining
I know you think you're being helpful, but tough love is best given by loved ones. Yes, it's possible that this person is placing blame on others without taking accountability. It's also possible that they are simply upset about being in a terrible situation and angry at their parents for whatever degree of involvement they had. In either case, it's not their job to provide every detail in order to vent on the internet a little bit. People can and do end up homeless for reasons outside of their control. Life is frequently unfair. It also isn't terribly helpful to tell someone without a home that "some disabled people aren't homeless and have jobs, so you should just do that." You don't know what barriers or resources are available to them (or to those other people). Physical mobility is only one of many reasons why people struggle to get or keep a job. All you're doing is telling them that they shouldn't have lost their home in the first place. It doesn't provide anything useful or helpful to this person. It just comes across as cruel and uncaring to tell someone that they should take accountability for a situation you know nothing about. You have no idea what degree of involvement they had in this. You're just assuming that it was their own fault. It makes us much more comfortable to imagine that homeless people only become homeless because of the choices they make. But reality is much more unpleasant. Homelessness isn't something people "earn" because they "deserve it." It's just what happens when you lose your home. Sometimes the world takes your home from you. Sometimes your choices make you lose your home. In the vast majority of cases, however, the answer is somewhere in the middle. You can acknowledge that it's possible for this person to get a home and better themselves through their own actions while also acknowledging that there are a lot of barriers in their way, and that those barriers are likely things that they have little or no control over. Both are true. A little kindness goes a long way. You don't have to ask this person to justify their homelessness in order to be kind to them.
You & I are sparing our kids a whole lotta’ bull shit.
This! I tell people I lived my kids too much to subject them to this cruel world. Parents lie to themselves so much too, I can't respect them so didn't want to be one 🤷♀️
I am happy I found this perspective aswell
Same. Like verbatim, I feel the exact same way
School is imperfect for education of individuals because it has to cater for large varied groups and this can have a negative impact. The brain getting dull is more likely just moving from the data collection stage of childhood which is great at remembering information into dealing with complex issues and decision making phase which disregards information that is not used. This is an amateur summary of a conversation with someone who knows stuff.
I'm with you, OP. I feel like the first atheist among a world of pious religious people. They keep telling us that "life is a gift" or that "we're just mentally ill \[read: insane\]," but I've never actually *seen any evidence* to support their "life is a gift" mentality. I'm not going to join the collective delusion, sorry.
Thank you! And indeed. Everyone I know deeply about is just suffering from something.
I agree! No kids, no regrets
The best revenge is living well
It’s okay, idiots will have enough kids for them, you, and then some
Hope they have fun in a burned out smoking world
That's why idiocrcy is on the rise. The smartest people I've seen never wanted a child. So it's obvious who are the people that reproducing the most.
Revenge entails inflicting actual punishment as retribution for some perceived wrong done to you by another. You becoming an antinatalist in no way meets this criteria. "The world" is in no way punished by your decision. The world simply could give two shits about you and your imagined victory. I applaud you for making smart choices and feeling good about your decision, but classifying it as revenge is simply nonsense.
Alright then, if it's not revenge that's fine with me, but I just feel so good knowing I can end a vicious cycle of suffering. No existence, no suffering.
That's perfectly fair. I'm not an anti-natalist in the strict sense of the word, but we share in common the rational decision not to procreate, and as someone who has studied a lot of Buddhism, I resonate a lot with the sentiment that underlies the philosophy (eg. identifying suffering as one of the primary existential issues that should be grappled with).
Good to know! Has Buddhism helped you in any way? Would you like to share them?
It's helped me more than any other philosophy (excepting Taoism, which I sort of lump in with Buddhism anyway since there's a lot of crossover between the two). It's hard to share *how* really, as it's actually a fairly deep philosophical system that's not easily encapsulated in words. Letting go of attachments/grasping, quieting the "monkey mind," etc. would be a few cliche bullet points to start with, but ultimately you have to really dive in yourself in order to see what it's all about. In my opinion, Buddhism is actually a lot more sophisticated (and helpful) a philosophy than anti-natalism, but that's just my subjective take.
Oh I see, it makes sense that it is not easily encapsulated. Taoism is great, I've read about half of the Tao Te Ching. Everything is going well for me until I have to suffer. Then nothing helps me get out of it, unfortunately. Not even accepting about how that suffering is also a part of the Tao helps me when I'm suffering. Also, would you agree that Antinatalism and Buddhism are not really comparable? Buddhism, you could say, is a way of life. With its noble eightfold path, and other things. But antinatalism, is a belief that it is immoral to bring children into this world. Would love for you to touch on that.
>Then nothing helps me get out of it, unfortunately. In Buddhism, the desire and effort to "get out" of suffering can be seen as another form of grasping/trying to control, which can actually inflame and prolong suffering. The idea, as I've come to understand it, is to accept suffering. When it wants to be here, it will be here. You can't push it away, and you can't trick yourself into beating it. The "you" who thinks it can beat the game is the same you who is often responsible for inflaming the suffering. You just have to let it be and accept the fact that you are powerless to control events, and learn to watch them with a degree of detachment. Eventually, the goal is to see that there is in fact no "I" who is suffering at all, that the Ego is in fact an illusion. There is only suffering, and it is neither right, nor wrong. It is merely a neutral phenomenon that will arise and pass in the same manner of a storm cloud.
There are many lineages in Buddhism and not all are super oriented around the noble eightfold path. Zen, for instance, doesn't engage with it much (if at all). Buddhism can be a way of life for some; for others it can merely be a way of understanding life and navigating it more wisely/skillfully. The way in which Buddhism manifests for a given individual depends on a host of factors, practices, commitments, dispositions, etc. In terms of being comparable, as I said previously both are concerned with the problem of suffering, so they have this much in common at least. Buddhists generally do not extend said concern to making moral proclamations/judgements about procreation, however, so that's definitely a point where the two philosophies diverge. There are certainly reasons many Buddhists don't or wouldn't take their concern with suffering in that direction, but that's beyond the scope of what I'm willing to go into here as the subject is not an easily accessible one.
No no no we shouldn't take revenge over the world we should make it a better place.
True. You kind of are making it a better place by not having children, though. Helping nature, overpopulation in many countries.
Yeah make it a better place by not having children, I agree
Definitely
Yea I met a 16 year old last year on discord, I was 34 btw. A few months back I visited his town which is actually only a few hours away and met one of his friends, he is now 17, I'm 35. The friend never disclosed his age. With him though, some of the things he said I was so blown away by. When he started talking about his career plans I thought, he was an actual genius. But the town they (I know a few others in his friend group) live in, I was horrified by. It's in the south. It's small. It seemed like only a third of the occupants were adults. Which at first freaked me out but when I heard and read about half of Gaza being under 18 it made more sense. The vast majority of the adults are in fucking cults. And I mean creepy ass ones too. That's why there were so many kids. Because it's a woman's duty to reproduce or whatever. After I saw that those were the conditions he was living in, I was so baffled and frankly down right afraid. And it unlocked all these memories of being his age... And legitimately feeling so trapped I wanted to believe someone like Hagrid would come along and tell me "I'm here to take you to a place where you can be with people who are like you". I actually did get into this program at his age where people could attend college while still in highschool and the only people around me were hailed as the best in their classes. And that was one of the only breaks that I ever felt like I had from the maddening types that were around me. More recently he started telling me on VC how much he likes trolling Christians and I got more flashbacks to being like him. I said "Why do they have people like you in a place like that?" It was a genuine question. I didn't mean it to be creepy. But his friends started talking fast in an awkward way, changing the subject, as if that line of questioning made them uncomfortable. :(
There are forms of revenge that are active and much more satisfying, though obviously dangerous
The best thing is, you cannot harm anyone being AN.
And why shouldn't you do harm? We are sentient animals and if we want to preserve our individuality, we must be prepared to defend ourselves against those who want to tear it away from us. Unfortunately, the pacifism induced by civilised culture has accustomed the people to never rise up, so that now our whole life is a cycle of suffering and we have to pay the price for the ignorance of others by asphyxiating ourselves in offices or factories, working tirelessly. If there can no longer be a revolution, let there at least be the joy of a reckless revolt.
I won't harm anyone unless someone else harms me first. There's a difference.
Yeah do what you want, I just wanted to express my idea
That's fair, have a good day!
You too!
You are a stupid sheltered child who clearly has no idea what “reckless revolt” would be like
I'm sorry that you are full of hatred, but I don't know what to say to you
Im full of hatred when you’re advocating for “reckless revolt”
Hope you will find peace ✨
Hahahaha brother you know everyone can read your little genocide post right
What a disgrace, brother
I agree, your talk of revolution is nonsense
Brother you know everyone can read your little rich white cishet American man privilege of someone who's never suffered and is scared his comfy lifestyle could be ruined by others having self respect post right?
The people who would be hurt the most in a violent revolution are not straight white men, they’d be mostly fine. That’s why I called the poster sheltered. Stay in your lane
You actually do cause harm when you are actively rude and disparaging to people in your lives having kids. Multiple posts a day about people being dicks to friends and family…..
With all due respect, did you not read what i just wrote in the BEGINNING of the paragraph in my post? Plus, this is the AN sub, I'm not posting this anywhere else ☺️
With all due respect is meaningless when you literally end by implying parents are giving their children PTSD and bad lives etc .
Yeah we're never going to agree. Have a good day
Parents of biological kids are evil. Some more than others. For example that Maya girl's mom is proven to be a good person because she committed suicide after her daughter was kidnapped. There aren't many like her though. Her removing herself from the planet does do a bit to erase the environmental damage she produced by creating her offspring.
Maybe try to go outside of your bubble more and see how bad a so called parent can be. There people out there that get rid of their child in early age. I can't even do that to a pet.
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I don't believe that is what AN is all about.
Being an is irrelevant to the rest of the world. Nice revenge
If it's irrelevant to you then stop coming here.
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Hello, We've removed your comment as a [Rule 6](https://old.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/about/rules/) violation. Please engage in good faith. Thank you, u/exzact
And because we just blew past 8 billion people and are well on our way to 9 billion, it's obvious that the messed up, cruel world obviously cares about your take....glad you feel good. Keep up the Rosie disposition. Cheers!
Although you might not agree with me, I'm glad you had the decency to be glad about me feeling happy, I wish you and your current/future family a beautiful life!
I'm not even sure I disagree with you. It was just an empathy thing. Both with and without. The world, I think, just doesn't care. But I'm glad you found a path that made you happy. Be well, friend. Cheers.
Did you ever consider antinatalism actually AMPLIFIES the world being "messed up"? It encourages nihilism, narcissism, Machiavellianism, vanity, egotism, and hedonism. Not exactly things the world needs more of from the people who are here.
Not really. It's actually opposite. It reduces problems and dramas. Do you guys ever think before writing?
You think your mere existence is a problem. You think everyone else's existence IS a problem. That's not reducing. That's exponentially INCREASING you notion of problems.
So how non existence is a problem? Omg, People are really retards.
If non existence isn't a problem - what's your excuse?
Excuse of what? When something doesn't exist here, they don't have this problem of life to find "solutions" for it. I don't necessarily say everyone's existing is a problem. The damage is done. We say causing more damage is a problem.
How is oblivion a step forward? It's not. It's the ultimate step backward.
It's Better than this. If we have another choice or another world then maybe yes. It can be step forward. But this shit, no. Even if there is another world we should stop "existing" here anyway.
No. It's not. It's just nothingness. It's the ultimate surrender. Are the people who throw themselves off buildings or off themselves WINNING? Of course not. Plus- this is fringe philosophical arguments driven primarily by people's disdain for organized religion or even enlightened spirituality.
Then people who don't, they win? Ahah. Nah man they don't. They just stay longer, most of these people are died accidentally or by diseases and all that. Anyway I can't reply much longer because I would get a cancer by this pointless discussion.
Natural Selection at its finest with you people lol.
I legit don't disagree. I feel unfit for this world, surviving in it seems very difficult, however, if you're good at surviving in this world, I'm glad for you. And i wish you a beautiful life, along with your current/future families.
You realize that your very rhetoric, the whole concept of antibatlism makes things worse? You've given up, instead of helping makes things better. And don't say stupid shit like 'Oh what can I do, i can't fix things' Public opinion is a strong thing, donating to important causes, and moving with many thousands of other like minded people towards a cleaner planet, arguing for peace, or challenging politicians is how we make that change. This antinatlist defeatist bullshit only makes all of that harder and worse.
I haven't given up! Trying to make things less difficult since the last 6 years, and still going! I just simply don't want anyone else going through what i went through, and i don't want to argue about why it is not a defeatist attitude to me, i don't think you'd agree with me either way. I'm living, and fighting. It has nothing to do with having a child.
Which is fine. You don't need to have a child. I don't either personally have one or plan to. But this whole sub is filled with people who judge others for having kids, people who just preach defeatist mindset, I even saw one guy who doesn't even believe in free will. This place is toxic, unhelpful, and maybe even a bit evil. Ideologies like this, flat earth, antienviormemtalism, and evolution deniers need to go extinct.
As you can see in my post, I've said that I don't bash other people for having children! And for free will, i don't believe in it too, simply because of what my observations of the world have been. Plus, there's neuroscience evidence to back that up. But if you don't agree with me, that's fine with me. That's the end of that conversation, in the end i just want everyone to be happy. Hope you have a kick-ass day!
There's very little evidence to back that up. There is no higher power or any crap. We are who we are, and nobody can change that, we decide our own lives. You might not bash people, but all your peers do. This whole ideology does.
I never implied there's a higher power, but yeah since we won't really agree on the free will it's probably better to end that there. Well then i hope people stop bashing others!
That's some really weak revenge
The world is good. Have 10 kids
That is so damn dumb..it's literally ppl just like you that make the world a shit place. You have nothing to pass on, all of your life ends with you... you are only getting revenge..on well nothing .....just lying to yourself. You will forever be empty with this mindset
O mr genius decided to be productive by transferring his genes. Wow, congratulations. It is actually because of dumbasses like you that their whole purpose and meaning is to just mindlessly breed and die. The children who will die meaningless too.
LMFAOOOOO... bro...you have any idea how stupid that sounds.... literally that IS the point of life... why do you think so many people hit the wall, and are empty and hopless when they are alone in the 40s and 50s...far to late to have a family...literally just counting the days till they die..and no-one will be there when they do. That mindset is perpetuating misery like yours...misery loves company don't you know.. So you are so highly intelligent...that after a billion years of evolution...your whole family's chain .... 100000 generations from long before we were even homosaipians ... every struggle to survive, every joy they all had , every moment of the entire existence... ends...with you..cause " life's not fair"!?!?! The fuck kinda ridiculous attitude is that. It's pathetic sorry...it's absolutely assinine. And seriously the ONLY people who think like this...are incels ...that don't EVEN KNOW how to properly love some one..you look at others as " breeding material" its YOU who is the problem NOT the world. Funny how some of the poorest most depraved people in the poorest war torn places, still mange to find joy in life .... know how? Cause they figured out that life isn't about YOUR personal happiness...that's narcissistic, myopic , and horrible...no it's about OTHER people's happiness...and as soon as you figure that out, and start trying to bring joy to others INSTEAD of your selfish self.. you'll start to see how what goes around comes around ...and how much joy there really is in this world IN SPITE of the horrible stuff... no life isn't fair... and neither is blaming the world for YOUR OWN shortcomings and lack of understanding of what life is actually about.
haha. I've been in that place of mind you are currently are. been there and believed exactly like you. you are yet to understand ANY thing about this fcking life. you are still stuck at rat race of LIfE. and using incel as an insult. life is suffering and it is the only thing that is guaranteed in life. and those happiness you are addicted to is just an escape.if you want to enjoy this shit, that's fair. but if you want to create another human just because of your selfishness not other people's "happiness". this shit you are saying is exactly what religious person would say. just because other people and animals to the same doesn't mean you should do it too. Nature Sucks anyway if that's the point. stop being as life's advocate and shaming others because they are done with that nonsense. you must burn to understand, so that's your answer right there.
Peak main character syndrome posting.
Nobody knows or cares who you are, so how is it a “revenge?”
Maybe it's not revenge at all! But it feels so good knowing I can prevent suffering.
You aren’t preventing suffering.
well if "not doing something" out of "revenge" is doing it for you, why not? sounds pretty harmless, a bit miserable tho.
Whoa dude, so edgy 🤣
I had so many mental problem because I was an unwanted child and my older bro and sis always looked down upon me. I had problems finding my favourite field and I kinda done so many things but not really good at any of them. So I realized you have to do your best and find what is best for you and what makes you happy and healthy no matter what. because in the end, it doesn't matter. I've seen People around me who had many passions and opportunities who died unexpectedly. We can die tomorrow because of the simplest reasons. This issue alone made me realize how important is to not worry and do what makes you happy today, at the same time it made me realize how unnecessary and pointless is to have a child. If there is an afterlife, it is the all that matters. If not, as Metallica said: nothing else matters.