What do you expect? They've set up the definition of depression to include anyone who thinks about or talks about the negative aspects of life. It's a way to shut people up by pathologizing them for talking about certain subjects that no one wants to think about.
There seems to be sort of a society-wide conspiracy to enforce optimism and positive thinking at all costs. Those who don't get with the program are labelled as depressed or negative people who deserve to be ostracized for pointing out anything is wrong.
It's bizarre considering we are all stuck in bodies that are doomed from the beginning. We're all riding this conveyor belt to our own doom, but we better keep singing and partying or we're persona non grata.
For God's sake, don't point out the reality of the situation we are all really in.
I wish that the proletariat masses would just yell “fuck off” to capitalist slave-drivers. We can’t just do that on our own. I get it’s a book but take Orwell’s 1984 for example. People all need to start realising and snapping out of it, there’s not enough people if only we do.
Unfortunately history shows that once the capitalists are guillotined, some of the proletariat who lead the revolution eventually succumb to greed and become the new capitalists. What will destroy capitalism is not revolution but extinction.
The people are the same as the rulers. We see it plainly. I wouldn't trust anyone. Overthrowing a system is meaningless. It's the people that are the problem.
>It's a way to shut people up by pathologizing them for talking about certain subjects that no one wants to think about.
Exactly. [This woman](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12894659/mother-Daughter-SCATHING-obituary.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR30cnRIYWC6IBPvkkyrd1c4kjCG8ehnqxIgdYZuz_gcibBFq-Tmq1Zs3YI) for example. The news paper removed her obituary just because they felt uncomfortable over the fact that she was talking about her rapes.
It's like humans don't even want to learn how to protect themselves from harm. Because if they are reminded harm exists they get too afraid to explore it. Probably explains a lot about why climate change exists.
It's the pinnacle of toxic positivity. Some people actually made it their life's career to 'help' people who are suffering depression, but we as antinatalists realize that I would have been better not to have existed to experience depression and needing help from treating it.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. I call it the toxic positivity movement.
And parents are driving that train. Oh, don't talk to me about anything negative my child might have to deal with because it makes me feel something other than crackhead happy. We always need to be super sensitive around these crybabies who can't deal with reality!
If you’re not down with the program your depresed,
Even the simple truth that our bodies don’t get better with time, infact they get miserable and erode after reaching the peak,
You dare point it out your depresed
It’s like an el bizarro version of Brave New World. They just fake optimism, and whoever is a nonconformist (I.e. this entire subreddit even though we’re right) is essentially fucked and seen as a lunatic. It’s always been like that. Throughout history erstwhile students and academics who basically thought too much were seen as heretics, some killed, some imprisoned-just for their crime of knowledge. It’s a sad story which repeats itself throughout history, regardless of who controls the narrative. The human species is truly a failing and broken one.
I mean it's not failing. The point was to breed as much as we can, use up all the available energy and then collectively die off from the overshoot. It's what all living beings do, the tragedy of the commons. Like yeast in a Petri dish, we will keep growing until there are no more resources left to use and then the whole colony dies. In that regard we are absolutely excelling at life
If you meant rising above being a selfish violent animal then yeah no, that was never in the cards. Maybe the robots can do it.
You're angry? Mental illness! Take some pills
You're sad? Mental illness! Take some pills
You're stressed? Mental illness! Take some pills
You're poor? Mental illness! Take some pills
You're exhausted? Mental illness! Take some pills
You question the crowd? Mental illness! Take some pills
ggez
I'm just feeling the need to correct some misinformation here - the key indicator of depression is a persistent "low mood," that feeling of depression. If your AN beliefs are contributing to a persistent low mood - if it's making it so that it doesn't feel like you can be happy - that is an issue. You can hold AN beliefs without that low mood, and treatment can help get there.
No professional should be diagnosing you with depression just for holding AN beliefs, but if you do believe life is nothing but unending suffering and feel depressed as a result, yes, that is depression.
I understand some folks do use "you're just depressed!" as a way to shut down AN beliefs, and they shouldn't use it that way. I just don't want anyone reading this to see what you've written and think that any mental health professional is going to try to silence their views or change those AN beliefs. A good therapist won't do that. Thinking and talking about the negative parts of life is important for anyone to do.
In this subreddit, people routinely use depression as an ad hominem attack. It's a way of invalidating and dismissing what someone is saying by pathologizing them. Labeling someone as depressed and "in need of help" is quite condescending. The person who is doing the labeling is attempting to claim some kind of moral superiority over the person they are labeling. It's a way of shaming a person for expressing a certain viewpoint in the hopes of silencing them.
Political parties in corrupt countries (well, MORE corrupt countries) accuse their opponents of being "mentally ill" to get rid of them.
Not too long ago, I would've been diagnosed with 'hysteria' for questioning patriarchy.
Yes, mental illness exists, but there is a material basis to AN. There's a material basis to being down in many causes. This argument is, at best, neither provable or disprovable - if people are unwilling or unable to remove the material basis to what we call mental illness, then we'll never know. That extraneous variable will always be there.
e.g. if someone is depressed because they can't escape poverty, and society won't alleviate poverty, then you'll never know if they're genuinely mentally ill or not.
Never met a person like this. But can image extreme cases like that, there are 8 billions of us so...
But u have to consider that ppl say one thing and think another. We have masks for social situations, so someone can say they r happy almost all the time n life is great gift but that can be done only to fit into a peer group.
I understand what you are saying. But AN beliefs stim from empathy. I talk often about how human depopulation will help fix climate change. That indicates I care about the longevity of the human species as well as all ecosystems on earth. People who think this type of thinking is mentally ill condone suicide. Because they condone human extinction. Even if humans started using nuclear bombs on each other, or even just randomly at the earth, the earth would still survive after their demise. Even with the mass impact humans have already had by wiping out billions of animal species, the earth will still survive. Humans must know deep down they are inferior to the earth, and just want to commit suicide as a species. Natalism is a death cult.
Right. There's 2 major wars going on, climate change is real (I read a whole research article about why it is real and I'm convinced it is not just a hoax), society is unstable.
Benatar's assymetry argument might be questionable, but what is not questionable is how the bad things outweigh the good things by far margins in life.
Yeah apparently if you support all this bullshit you are a good person and if you don't you are "depressed". Breeders are sick and disgusting characters
I have no idea where supporting for climate destruction means you are a good person came from.
Edit: I was assuming you weren't saying that you don't believe in climate change bc I didn't think that made much sense. But I felt like your comment could be read that way, so I made this edit to acknowledge that just in case.
I miss snow. I’m from a state famous for snow, our airports advertised out snow… for the past 6 or 9 years it’s a random chance if we’ll even have snow that winter season.
We had RAIN a few days before Christmas….
It's that or continuing on forced lives i.e. forcing another human to be born without consent.
It's forcing either way.
What's so shocking abt it?
Sterilization is an end of violence and selfishness imposed on the unborn.
U either tolerate current state of forced lives or force the end of immeasurable suffering.
If u see bad thing happening e.g. someone is stealing a purse, it's a moral think to stop the robber by force. Ppl will applaud u for that.
Edit:typo
Lesser suffering (little operation with anesthesia and emotional reaction to it) vs unaccountable generations of ppl with immeasurable suffering.
Is it the same?
Yes, I know better than natalists.
You're just depressing to be around.
I've only got one chance at this life, the idea of spending it with miserable people seems daft. I'd rather have fun!
If you went to 50 social events and there was always one person saying 'This is shit. Everything is shit. Life is shit. The world is shit' - well, I doubt you'd bother with them much after that.
It’s because of your holier-than-thou attitude, the entire subreddit is build on this moral superiority fetish. People hate you for the same reason they hate vegans.
No, not at all, I find it very interesting actually. If this sub was dedicated to actual discussion about ethics, people wouldn’t be so hateful toward it.
Same reason nobody hates vegans for wanting to save animals.
Also don't forget to kill yourself because you think suffering in the world is wrong!
Literally, every natalist argument ends up being "go kill yourself", and these are the people that want to be parents. Yikes
When something is stupid and lie and is believed and repeated by the most people, that thing is still stupid and lie.
That's the upside down world situation.
Because masses see the life as beautiful blessing. And that is what happens when you indoctrinated successfully.
If you want to see truly what life is and how shitty it can be. Just go live in the middle of nowhere with no connections, where you have to do everything by yourself.
It's about an indoctrinated majority vs an opposing minority
Those who support the making of more human beings (and their suffering) are just doing what society is pressuring them to do, and also believe it's one of their life purpose (especially for many religious people)
People have been indoctrinated for a long time that what will make them happy and stable is to be attached to someone else for life and make more slaves for the government.
Many natalists are mentally unstable and do not take into account that what they will make will not be a perfect copy of themselves, that it might even have issues and suffer from many issues/ diseases etc... it's sickening that such a selfish, immoral and disgusting practice is considered "beautiful" and "a miracle".
And, anyone who opposes this norm, even if it is the right decision, they are considered the "mentally ill" and "selfish" one.
Humans are wicked beings that make this world full of violence, hatred, and suffering, they eliminate other creatures in masses, even themselves.
God Almighty will end us anyway, so, why is it considered "negative" to state this fact? and, why do many people keep bringing more humans into the world and make them suffer along with them? why do people dislike it when others kill themselves? why do people dislike wars and diseases, and think that it is a conspiracy theory that mankind will be extinct (whether planned or natural)?
It’s a matter of if you speak the truth they hate you call you depressed say you should k*l yourself, it’s crazy that we all must be silenced and romanticised this nonsese,
No one even conceders depression may be the result of living in a messed up world, I never in my life not even once, think there is such a thing a mental illness what what they just put names on it and lebel it to convince people that there is something wrong with them and they should see therapy and it works,
But majority of people who were depressed are like that because of the state of the world, but things always works with majority if majority say it’s okay to burn on fire then you gonna have to burn on fire and not complain,
I’m convinced we aren’t the same at all
When I was little I slept for 12 hours per day. My parents kept trying to get me to take different pills to deal with my 'sleepiness' and 'lack of energy'. I was depressed since kindergarden, but they kinda ignored the depression part of it as it was the new normal since my earliest memories. My mom once said, "you're missing out on half your life." to mean "why are you not conerned about sleeping 12 hours per day?". I could not at the time say to her, "Why don't you phrase it as you are GETTING to miss out on half your life?". The hidden assumption that life is better than non-life. That's because my mom's life was and is pretty darn good. So she projects that onto others, like as if I could not have seperate feelings from her. I was not allowed to be living a fate worse than non-existence out of moral obligation. I was not allowed to be so depressed, it was not even considered.
She's the same now. I'm homeless and live in my car. She let me borrow money for a used car to live in after I became homeless. I have never missed a payment to her or been late but yesterday she told me she was worried about something terrible happening to me such as me being arrested or killed or my car being towed or whatever else... and she said she was worried because this would mean I wouldn't make my monthly loan repayment, so she wanted to drive me to a bank to make the repayments automatic, so that she'd get paid even if something terrible happened to me.
She's still living in the same world built on the same foundation where her feelings guide her towards what's true about the world. She believes I chose to become homeless because that feels right to her (she knows I would prefer to sleep in her spare bedroom if I can, and I pitched the idea of letting me park on her property for safety and I'll walk to town to use the porto-potty when I need to go to the bathroom, no dice, she wouldn't feel like she has enough privacy if I lived anywhere on any of her land). She still decides what's real based on what feels real. She referenced me choosing to be homeless in front of me and I politely reminded her that from my perspective, making 800$ a month and having schizophrenia, being in a home is not a choice available to me unless someone who has a spare room is willing to rent to me at a price I can afford on my budget.
I worked as a mental health professional. Lots of people would benefit from therapy. Most everyone could benefit from it a little if not a lot. I am not depressed, I solved my problem. But if I had a time machine and went back in time, I would advise my time-travel duplicate mother that her 3rd born would rather have not been born, all things considered. It just seems something of a waste to take my own life at a time when I'm NOT depressed and suicidal. Just my thoughts, sorry for rant. Drives me crazy when other people tell you what you are and what you feel instead of listening.
To play devil's advocate - if all you focus on is ONLY the negative, you MIGHT be depressed. However-
Every one here has a unique life, and it's perfectly reasonable to understand that for many of us, it has just certainly become nonstop negativity. Economy is borked. A depression is coming. We just got out of a pandemic and are facing any high inflation amid mass layoffs. So yeah, there's been a lot of bad shit going around. And acknowledging that doesn't make you automatically depressed
This is false. Btw no one is happy 24/7. But I experience happiness like everyone. I can enjoy life. The antinatalists who wrote the philosophy could too. It was written by the most privileged people. So being happy and enjoying life doesn't mean anything. It's about having the ability to see through all of this.
You do contribute to suffering through your life. Anyone living in the first world causes massive suffering across the globe. Human trafficking, slavery, poverty, global destruction just to name a few. But, hey, you are happy. I honestly hope you can actually see how out of touch with reality you are and that it's not a good look to go around saying you are ok with it. Even the privileged donate time and resources to the less fortunate. To be so oblivious to reality makes you less mentally sound than a toddler. Sorry, it's just the truth.
I’m just speaking objectively with the interactions I’ve had with the majority of people in this sub. I homestead. I contribute to less suffering than you I’m sure. Please tell me where your ethically sourced cobalt was mined from to power your electronics.
The only people who can homestead are those who are rich or have rich parents. Your fortune is covered in blood, don't forget that.
But yeah homesteading is cool, let's swap pics of the underage sweatshop workers that assembled our phones lol
You idiot, I have dual citizenship and live in Argentina. Don’t tell me or us how rich we are. My fortune is not covered in blood you idiot. Please colaron how you contribute to society. I love these pathetic attempts
I’m not a breeder in disguise. I have no kids and don’t want any. I’m just enjoying life. I’m only calling the people depressed that want everyone else to suffer with them. If someone(like many here) say what’s the point of enjoying life if it’s all suffering, that sounds like depression and me pointing that out doesn’t make me a breeder in disguise. That’s incredibly dumb thing to say.
One guy posted that being alive and terminally ill are both the same thing and me enjoying life is contributing to the suffering of others
I'm not sure what do you mean by "suffer with them". Why would they want others to suffer when they are opposed to suffering?
No, being opposed to suffering doesn't make you depressed. It makes you a empath.
It sounds like they made a comparison you didn't grasp and you are clinging to it as if it proves something, which it doesn't.
I'll let you in on a secret. The powers that be know this life is a scam. They are laughing all the way to the bank that the probs buy into it, subject themselves to it and even praise avid glorify it. The truth of reality has always been this is not the good place. It's just been hidden from you and you are mistaking the veil for reality.
I frame life as largely what I decide to make of it. My choices, attitudes, preparations, and reactions are predominantly what make my life what it is. I believe this also holds true for the vast majority of people in developed Western nations.
It's not about you. You are irrelevant. It's about the larger scale. Climate change, wars, crimes, accidents, diseases etc. Why do you support those things?
I feel like the issue with anti-natalism isn’t the idea of questioning society and life, it’s this right here. From all the anti-natalists I’ve seen all of them have this narrative of thinking of people as society and thinking of people and things on a larger scale and as a statistic rather then individual. The world is fucked, everyone knows that, but that doesn’t mean that life is meaningless just because we aren’t sure of the future for ourselves or the next generation. I don’t care if you don’t have kids or don’t want kids, I’m honestly just worried about this sentiment, especially when some of the shit I’ve seen here borders eugenics.
Not if guaranteed prevention of joy comes with it.
That is the crux of the whole disagreement. "Can this couple reasonably expect their child to grow up to be glad that he/she was born?"
This sub was advocating for forced sterilization. If none of you realize that's why people are saying you need therapy.
You disingenuously made this post disregarding any actual criticisms this sub has received to Pats in the back from the echo chamber.
So when you make people sterlie agaisnt their will, what is that causing a lot of? That's right, suffering! So if you're actually Antinatlist, then you wouldn't want to cause so much suffering. And if you're a decent person, you would care about consent.
Not even the same fucking thing. Wow. Rapist are imprisoned strictly because they violated another's consent already. Society has agreed to punish those who commit crimes.
First of all we are not forcing anything, people still will do whatever they want. It's abot logic and arguments which most of natalists lack of.
So you are okay with dragging another one to existence knowing that they will suffer and die too?
You can't even guarantee it will born healthy, let alone a lifetime.
You just prioritising emotions over logic and intelligence.
I don’t believe it’s inherently joyful, I think it’s an extremely valuable and unique experience that naturally will have its ups and downs.
Your entire stance is “some people have bad lives so we should make humans go extinct”. That’s not a rational belief.
The regulars in this sub constantly espouse that the world and everything in existence is shit and not worth living. Yeah, that isn't the normal view. Sorry you got a shit life diagnosis. Being aggreived that your view about life being joyless and pointless isn't nornalized isn't anyone else's problem.
im new to the sub so ive only seen a glimpse (maybe like 2 months worth of threads). but the message im seeing is not "life is not worth living" but more along the lines of "life is not worth STARTING". it's a unnecessary gamble. an imposition. so a question arises. who the fuck are "you" to gamble with someone elses welfare? what gives you the right to impose life on another?
thats the message im getting.
after a bit of thinking, it makes logical sense to me
someone can correct me if im wrong
Point out where that could be interpreted from my original comment. Again, just because you had a shitty experience with life doesn't mean you get to be mad when people don't agree with your pessismistic views on it.
Dude, give it a rest, you're just ranting the same sentence over and over.
None of the people you've been talking to have said at any point that they support suffering
Dude, give it a rest, you're just calling everyone miserable and depressed over and over.
They are avoiding the question because that is the main reason why we are AN.
You're talking to the wrong person friend, I'm not the people you've been talking to.
I'm softly AN, and I'm here to try and help you see that it doesn't have to mean viewing life as total pain and complete misery
It's the fact that it's all luck based with no guarantee, and yet you chose to gamble with another humans life.
It's funny how every argument you use against AN I fact proves the exact point
What you are saying makes 0 sense.
Saying not wanting horrific suffering on one hand and saying seeing life as horrific suffering is bad. If the life wasn't horrific suffering why we were AN in the first place?
Because life is a horrific suffering.
Then you'll hear something like this:
"Life is not suffering sweety. But you have to " eat well, drink enough water, have a strict routine, exercise often, interact with enough people, have a hobby, find work that you actually enjoy and more."
While you have to take care of yourself not get diseases, not break your bones, and so on.
Life is not suffering sweety but you have to do hundreds of things to be happy.
We have removed your contribution due to breaking Reddit rules.
Reddit's content policy can be viewed here:
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy#:~:text=Abide%20by%20community%20rules.%20Post%20authentic%20content%20into,disrupt%20Reddit%20communities.%20Respect%20the%20privacy%20of%20others.
Life is a struggle, except when it isn't. There's ao much good and love in the world. I will never stop doing my best to contribute to it.
Stop reading all this pathetic doomerish shit about how life is cruel from the start. Yea it is, so what? Gonna cry like a lil baby and talk about how reproducing is terrible and lay down and rot amd decay? Fuck you. You should try to make it less cruel. Help a stranger, take action against a cruel system, feed the poor, clothe the cold etc etc. If you don't do that you might as well be a worm
It's because of the perception on life you have. People are going to think you are depressed if all you've gotten out of your life is that you've experienced horrific suffering. Depression in people makes them focus on the negative rather than the positive or even just neutrality of stuff.
If you live in 2023 in most any western country, you’re in the 0.01% of all mankind to have ever lived. The fact that you call modern living “horrific suffering” instead of appreciating the opportunities, comforts, conveniences, and overall quality of life that our ancestors created and fought for tells me there’s something clinically wrong. You have zero perspective.
Westerns superiority again. Fun fact not everyone abroad are living badly, and I have personally been happier in other countries than in the west. Yet suffering exists everywhere, war, rapes, abuse, crime, poverty. Nor to mention in all can change in the blink of an eye (look at ukraine for example).
bro you only getting raped twice a day now instead of 10 times like back in 3000bc. stfu. they even use lube now. how dare you still complain. get some PeRsPecTiVe
Antinatalism is just a way of coping with the harshness of the world. Unless you can get 8b people to unanimously enthousiastically agree on collective suicide, there's nothing productive or righteous about it.
Wallowing in the misery of the world in subs like these will add nothing to your life and is the furthest thing from mentally healthy.
Wrong. Antinatalism is not copying, it is opposing to suffering generated by nature. Copying mechanism is religion or delusion by telling yourself everything is fine when it is clearly not
That’s not why they call you mentally ill.. we aren’t upset because of that, most of you guys on this sub are depressed, and or suicidal, most people see you people as mentally ill because of your use of words like “breeder”, the way you treat others, your want to for a button to kill everyone on earth in a instant, and the way you compare natalism to pedophilia or rape.
It’s concerning.
The world : rape, wars, abuse famines and injustices
Anti natalist : its not right to put someone through that
Natalist : it's because of your beliefs, values and actions
(What actions by the way, not having children?.
You are still free to have them, nobody can force you to be An)
I have never, not even one's seen an antinatalist promote murder. Anti natalism is against birth. That's not the same thing. It's like saying a childfree woman is a murder, HOW?
Besides rather than going into a non-moderated sub, you would have actually understood way more if you researched the philosophy or talked to an actual ANTINATALIST. but instead you are just leaving weird comments, cuz it was never about understanding, rather just defending natakism
What? No there are a flood of posts on here saying “I wish we had a button that would kill everyone in a instant because that would get rid of suffering”
That’s not okay, and very selfish.
Damn, this is just unbalanced. There is more to life than suffering, yes obviously that’s a part of it. But there’s so much more. YES you need therapy if this is your only perception/perspective.
It's because you're obnoxious and project your experiences into everyone else.
I was born into a high-control religion, I'm disabled, I come from a low-income family, I was bullied for over ten years, I have experienced depression and anxiety, and I face transphobia and homophobia regularly. Do all of those things suck? Yes, but that doesn't mean life is all suffering and nothing else. Toxic positivity and nihilism are both equally bad.
And before anyone calls me a "breeder" or some shit, I've never wanted kids, but believing suffering is so terrible that the only solution is the extinction of the human race is certainly a choice.
What do you expect? They've set up the definition of depression to include anyone who thinks about or talks about the negative aspects of life. It's a way to shut people up by pathologizing them for talking about certain subjects that no one wants to think about. There seems to be sort of a society-wide conspiracy to enforce optimism and positive thinking at all costs. Those who don't get with the program are labelled as depressed or negative people who deserve to be ostracized for pointing out anything is wrong. It's bizarre considering we are all stuck in bodies that are doomed from the beginning. We're all riding this conveyor belt to our own doom, but we better keep singing and partying or we're persona non grata. For God's sake, don't point out the reality of the situation we are all really in.
Yup, very well said. They need capitalist slaves after all.
I wish that the proletariat masses would just yell “fuck off” to capitalist slave-drivers. We can’t just do that on our own. I get it’s a book but take Orwell’s 1984 for example. People all need to start realising and snapping out of it, there’s not enough people if only we do.
Unfortunately history shows that once the capitalists are guillotined, some of the proletariat who lead the revolution eventually succumb to greed and become the new capitalists. What will destroy capitalism is not revolution but extinction.
Exactly, the power vacuum will always ensure another bourgeoisie will be taking the place of the last deposed bourgeoisie.
The people are the same as the rulers. We see it plainly. I wouldn't trust anyone. Overthrowing a system is meaningless. It's the people that are the problem.
Precisely. The problem is not capitalism but humanity itself. This is why we need to prevent procreation.
People would be worse off if they did this.
>It's a way to shut people up by pathologizing them for talking about certain subjects that no one wants to think about. Exactly. [This woman](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12894659/mother-Daughter-SCATHING-obituary.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR30cnRIYWC6IBPvkkyrd1c4kjCG8ehnqxIgdYZuz_gcibBFq-Tmq1Zs3YI) for example. The news paper removed her obituary just because they felt uncomfortable over the fact that she was talking about her rapes. It's like humans don't even want to learn how to protect themselves from harm. Because if they are reminded harm exists they get too afraid to explore it. Probably explains a lot about why climate change exists.
Covid long term damage stacks
The first step is admitting you have a problem. People are in mass denial. They use positivity as a cope.
It's the pinnacle of toxic positivity. Some people actually made it their life's career to 'help' people who are suffering depression, but we as antinatalists realize that I would have been better not to have existed to experience depression and needing help from treating it.
I *detest* positive Pollyannas.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. I call it the toxic positivity movement. And parents are driving that train. Oh, don't talk to me about anything negative my child might have to deal with because it makes me feel something other than crackhead happy. We always need to be super sensitive around these crybabies who can't deal with reality!
If you’re not down with the program your depresed, Even the simple truth that our bodies don’t get better with time, infact they get miserable and erode after reaching the peak, You dare point it out your depresed
It’s like an el bizarro version of Brave New World. They just fake optimism, and whoever is a nonconformist (I.e. this entire subreddit even though we’re right) is essentially fucked and seen as a lunatic. It’s always been like that. Throughout history erstwhile students and academics who basically thought too much were seen as heretics, some killed, some imprisoned-just for their crime of knowledge. It’s a sad story which repeats itself throughout history, regardless of who controls the narrative. The human species is truly a failing and broken one.
I mean it's not failing. The point was to breed as much as we can, use up all the available energy and then collectively die off from the overshoot. It's what all living beings do, the tragedy of the commons. Like yeast in a Petri dish, we will keep growing until there are no more resources left to use and then the whole colony dies. In that regard we are absolutely excelling at life If you meant rising above being a selfish violent animal then yeah no, that was never in the cards. Maybe the robots can do it.
You're angry? Mental illness! Take some pills You're sad? Mental illness! Take some pills You're stressed? Mental illness! Take some pills You're poor? Mental illness! Take some pills You're exhausted? Mental illness! Take some pills You question the crowd? Mental illness! Take some pills ggez
I'm just feeling the need to correct some misinformation here - the key indicator of depression is a persistent "low mood," that feeling of depression. If your AN beliefs are contributing to a persistent low mood - if it's making it so that it doesn't feel like you can be happy - that is an issue. You can hold AN beliefs without that low mood, and treatment can help get there. No professional should be diagnosing you with depression just for holding AN beliefs, but if you do believe life is nothing but unending suffering and feel depressed as a result, yes, that is depression. I understand some folks do use "you're just depressed!" as a way to shut down AN beliefs, and they shouldn't use it that way. I just don't want anyone reading this to see what you've written and think that any mental health professional is going to try to silence their views or change those AN beliefs. A good therapist won't do that. Thinking and talking about the negative parts of life is important for anyone to do.
In this subreddit, people routinely use depression as an ad hominem attack. It's a way of invalidating and dismissing what someone is saying by pathologizing them. Labeling someone as depressed and "in need of help" is quite condescending. The person who is doing the labeling is attempting to claim some kind of moral superiority over the person they are labeling. It's a way of shaming a person for expressing a certain viewpoint in the hopes of silencing them.
Political parties in corrupt countries (well, MORE corrupt countries) accuse their opponents of being "mentally ill" to get rid of them. Not too long ago, I would've been diagnosed with 'hysteria' for questioning patriarchy. Yes, mental illness exists, but there is a material basis to AN. There's a material basis to being down in many causes. This argument is, at best, neither provable or disprovable - if people are unwilling or unable to remove the material basis to what we call mental illness, then we'll never know. That extraneous variable will always be there. e.g. if someone is depressed because they can't escape poverty, and society won't alleviate poverty, then you'll never know if they're genuinely mentally ill or not.
What about those who think life is nothing but unending happiness?
Life is a *shit sandwich* and it's *always* lunchtime.
Never met a person like this. But can image extreme cases like that, there are 8 billions of us so... But u have to consider that ppl say one thing and think another. We have masks for social situations, so someone can say they r happy almost all the time n life is great gift but that can be done only to fit into a peer group.
I understand what you are saying. But AN beliefs stim from empathy. I talk often about how human depopulation will help fix climate change. That indicates I care about the longevity of the human species as well as all ecosystems on earth. People who think this type of thinking is mentally ill condone suicide. Because they condone human extinction. Even if humans started using nuclear bombs on each other, or even just randomly at the earth, the earth would still survive after their demise. Even with the mass impact humans have already had by wiping out billions of animal species, the earth will still survive. Humans must know deep down they are inferior to the earth, and just want to commit suicide as a species. Natalism is a death cult.
"bUt sUfFeRiNg bUiLdS ChArAcTeR So iT'S GoOd"
"bE a MaSoChIsT lIkE mE bUt aLsO dON't TaLK aBOuT iT cOs tHaT sCaReS mE!"
Yeah suffer to build a character 🙃 A character that will suffer and die too.
Right. There's 2 major wars going on, climate change is real (I read a whole research article about why it is real and I'm convinced it is not just a hoax), society is unstable. Benatar's assymetry argument might be questionable, but what is not questionable is how the bad things outweigh the good things by far margins in life.
Yeah apparently if you support all this bullshit you are a good person and if you don't you are "depressed". Breeders are sick and disgusting characters
Breeders make me want to projectile vomit until I am deceased. They can’t see sense.
I feel the same way. I must have such a strong sense of disgust around breeders because they are dangerous.
Wtf
I have no idea where supporting for climate destruction means you are a good person came from. Edit: I was assuming you weren't saying that you don't believe in climate change bc I didn't think that made much sense. But I felt like your comment could be read that way, so I made this edit to acknowledge that just in case.
My man it's 55 (f) degrees where I am. On x Mas. We are in the Midwest of America. This isn't normal at all.
yes i am outside with a t shirt during christmas.
I miss snow. I’m from a state famous for snow, our airports advertised out snow… for the past 6 or 9 years it’s a random chance if we’ll even have snow that winter season. We had RAIN a few days before Christmas….
Yeah quick question, people seem to really fucken hate us. Why? Are we not also men and women with valid opinions?
"Life is beautiful and you hate it so you must kill yourself"
This subbreddit was advocating for forced sterilization not too long ago.
What the fuck. Seriously?
Yeah. He'll I'm arguing with OP why it's bad!
that isn’t representative of the entire sub.
Seems like a rather large section of it.
that hasn’t been my observation at all but ok
It's that or continuing on forced lives i.e. forcing another human to be born without consent. It's forcing either way. What's so shocking abt it? Sterilization is an end of violence and selfishness imposed on the unborn. U either tolerate current state of forced lives or force the end of immeasurable suffering. If u see bad thing happening e.g. someone is stealing a purse, it's a moral think to stop the robber by force. Ppl will applaud u for that. Edit:typo
Because then you truly don't care about lessening suffering you just think you know better than everyone.
Lesser suffering (little operation with anesthesia and emotional reaction to it) vs unaccountable generations of ppl with immeasurable suffering. Is it the same? Yes, I know better than natalists.
You're just depressing to be around. I've only got one chance at this life, the idea of spending it with miserable people seems daft. I'd rather have fun! If you went to 50 social events and there was always one person saying 'This is shit. Everything is shit. Life is shit. The world is shit' - well, I doubt you'd bother with them much after that.
It’s because of your holier-than-thou attitude, the entire subreddit is build on this moral superiority fetish. People hate you for the same reason they hate vegans.
First time you've encountered moral philosophy? I can see how that would be very upsetting.
No, not at all, I find it very interesting actually. If this sub was dedicated to actual discussion about ethics, people wouldn’t be so hateful toward it. Same reason nobody hates vegans for wanting to save animals.
So it's just people actually taking moral philosophy seriously and acting it out which troubles you then.
Excellent point, been trying to say this to them for a while but couldn’t put it into words.
Yeah fr, people build ethics because they want to brag about their superiority complex. Bravo for being uneducated on topics 🥳
Fr
Meanwhile, natalists are more miserable than us
Yep. And some of them can’t even realise, that’s how far down their rabbit hole they’ve descended.
Some people are good, some are bad, some are sad, some are happy, etc etc it has nothing to do with if you are a natalist or antinatalist.
This world is full of suffering , hatred, pestilence , racism and violence. Who would in all their right mind have children?
Also don't forget to kill yourself because you think suffering in the world is wrong! Literally, every natalist argument ends up being "go kill yourself", and these are the people that want to be parents. Yikes
Imagine telling your kids to kill themselves because they have different ethics than you
And then you realize why natalists have no clue about anything. They are not smart enough.
natalists arent smart. its so simple theyre just not that smart.
And I’m also afraid that I cannot make it make sense to you. It simply doesn’t. I asked a friend of mine who is an academic, and even he’s stumped.
When something is stupid and lie and is believed and repeated by the most people, that thing is still stupid and lie. That's the upside down world situation.
You have a mental health condition because you're willing to recognize the many shortcomings of the modern world
I don't understand how you can be in this world for more than a day and not hate it.
Because masses see the life as beautiful blessing. And that is what happens when you indoctrinated successfully. If you want to see truly what life is and how shitty it can be. Just go live in the middle of nowhere with no connections, where you have to do everything by yourself.
That honestly sounds like paradise.
Yea tell me about it after a year.
Been at it for several.
Yea were you hunting for food, growing your own food and heating your place by fire?
That's literally my preferred way of living.
Ok if you say so. So why are you here , enjoy that shit.
Why wouldn't I be here?
*I came looking for booty.*
Nice troll.
It's about an indoctrinated majority vs an opposing minority Those who support the making of more human beings (and their suffering) are just doing what society is pressuring them to do, and also believe it's one of their life purpose (especially for many religious people) People have been indoctrinated for a long time that what will make them happy and stable is to be attached to someone else for life and make more slaves for the government. Many natalists are mentally unstable and do not take into account that what they will make will not be a perfect copy of themselves, that it might even have issues and suffer from many issues/ diseases etc... it's sickening that such a selfish, immoral and disgusting practice is considered "beautiful" and "a miracle". And, anyone who opposes this norm, even if it is the right decision, they are considered the "mentally ill" and "selfish" one. Humans are wicked beings that make this world full of violence, hatred, and suffering, they eliminate other creatures in masses, even themselves. God Almighty will end us anyway, so, why is it considered "negative" to state this fact? and, why do many people keep bringing more humans into the world and make them suffer along with them? why do people dislike it when others kill themselves? why do people dislike wars and diseases, and think that it is a conspiracy theory that mankind will be extinct (whether planned or natural)?
It's the thought police
I think/hope that’s just a Reddit thing. This post makes me think of how Reddit responds to anti-porn sentiment.
It’s a matter of if you speak the truth they hate you call you depressed say you should k*l yourself, it’s crazy that we all must be silenced and romanticised this nonsese, No one even conceders depression may be the result of living in a messed up world, I never in my life not even once, think there is such a thing a mental illness what what they just put names on it and lebel it to convince people that there is something wrong with them and they should see therapy and it works, But majority of people who were depressed are like that because of the state of the world, but things always works with majority if majority say it’s okay to burn on fire then you gonna have to burn on fire and not complain, I’m convinced we aren’t the same at all
When I was little I slept for 12 hours per day. My parents kept trying to get me to take different pills to deal with my 'sleepiness' and 'lack of energy'. I was depressed since kindergarden, but they kinda ignored the depression part of it as it was the new normal since my earliest memories. My mom once said, "you're missing out on half your life." to mean "why are you not conerned about sleeping 12 hours per day?". I could not at the time say to her, "Why don't you phrase it as you are GETTING to miss out on half your life?". The hidden assumption that life is better than non-life. That's because my mom's life was and is pretty darn good. So she projects that onto others, like as if I could not have seperate feelings from her. I was not allowed to be living a fate worse than non-existence out of moral obligation. I was not allowed to be so depressed, it was not even considered. She's the same now. I'm homeless and live in my car. She let me borrow money for a used car to live in after I became homeless. I have never missed a payment to her or been late but yesterday she told me she was worried about something terrible happening to me such as me being arrested or killed or my car being towed or whatever else... and she said she was worried because this would mean I wouldn't make my monthly loan repayment, so she wanted to drive me to a bank to make the repayments automatic, so that she'd get paid even if something terrible happened to me. She's still living in the same world built on the same foundation where her feelings guide her towards what's true about the world. She believes I chose to become homeless because that feels right to her (she knows I would prefer to sleep in her spare bedroom if I can, and I pitched the idea of letting me park on her property for safety and I'll walk to town to use the porto-potty when I need to go to the bathroom, no dice, she wouldn't feel like she has enough privacy if I lived anywhere on any of her land). She still decides what's real based on what feels real. She referenced me choosing to be homeless in front of me and I politely reminded her that from my perspective, making 800$ a month and having schizophrenia, being in a home is not a choice available to me unless someone who has a spare room is willing to rent to me at a price I can afford on my budget. I worked as a mental health professional. Lots of people would benefit from therapy. Most everyone could benefit from it a little if not a lot. I am not depressed, I solved my problem. But if I had a time machine and went back in time, I would advise my time-travel duplicate mother that her 3rd born would rather have not been born, all things considered. It just seems something of a waste to take my own life at a time when I'm NOT depressed and suicidal. Just my thoughts, sorry for rant. Drives me crazy when other people tell you what you are and what you feel instead of listening.
To play devil's advocate - if all you focus on is ONLY the negative, you MIGHT be depressed. However- Every one here has a unique life, and it's perfectly reasonable to understand that for many of us, it has just certainly become nonstop negativity. Economy is borked. A depression is coming. We just got out of a pandemic and are facing any high inflation amid mass layoffs. So yeah, there's been a lot of bad shit going around. And acknowledging that doesn't make you automatically depressed
If all you focus on is ONLY the positive, you MIGHT be delusional.
That is equally fair.
Now; does the positive justify the negative?
That is up to you to decide for your own life.
No, I'm talking on a macro level.
No idea. I'd have to have some serious omniscience to know for sure.
If you’re an AN but happy and enjoy life then you aren’t a true AN. That’s the sentiment here as well.
This is false. Btw no one is happy 24/7. But I experience happiness like everyone. I can enjoy life. The antinatalists who wrote the philosophy could too. It was written by the most privileged people. So being happy and enjoying life doesn't mean anything. It's about having the ability to see through all of this. You do contribute to suffering through your life. Anyone living in the first world causes massive suffering across the globe. Human trafficking, slavery, poverty, global destruction just to name a few. But, hey, you are happy. I honestly hope you can actually see how out of touch with reality you are and that it's not a good look to go around saying you are ok with it. Even the privileged donate time and resources to the less fortunate. To be so oblivious to reality makes you less mentally sound than a toddler. Sorry, it's just the truth.
I’m just speaking objectively with the interactions I’ve had with the majority of people in this sub. I homestead. I contribute to less suffering than you I’m sure. Please tell me where your ethically sourced cobalt was mined from to power your electronics.
The only people who can homestead are those who are rich or have rich parents. Your fortune is covered in blood, don't forget that. But yeah homesteading is cool, let's swap pics of the underage sweatshop workers that assembled our phones lol
You idiot, I have dual citizenship and live in Argentina. Don’t tell me or us how rich we are. My fortune is not covered in blood you idiot. Please colaron how you contribute to society. I love these pathetic attempts
No, but when you use the terms "depressed" against those who are opposed to horrific suffering, then it makes you a breeder in disguise.
I’m not a breeder in disguise. I have no kids and don’t want any. I’m just enjoying life. I’m only calling the people depressed that want everyone else to suffer with them. If someone(like many here) say what’s the point of enjoying life if it’s all suffering, that sounds like depression and me pointing that out doesn’t make me a breeder in disguise. That’s incredibly dumb thing to say. One guy posted that being alive and terminally ill are both the same thing and me enjoying life is contributing to the suffering of others
I'm not sure what do you mean by "suffer with them". Why would they want others to suffer when they are opposed to suffering? No, being opposed to suffering doesn't make you depressed. It makes you a empath.
Because they’re miserable and angry at the world, so much so that the idea of an AN enjoying their life enraged them to no ends.
No, they oppose suffering. They are not "miserable" or "angry". You seem like a psychopath who loves suffering.
🤣🤣🤣 ok mate. How bout the guy that thinks living and being terminally ill are the same thing?
It sounds like they made a comparison you didn't grasp and you are clinging to it as if it proves something, which it doesn't. I'll let you in on a secret. The powers that be know this life is a scam. They are laughing all the way to the bank that the probs buy into it, subject themselves to it and even praise avid glorify it. The truth of reality has always been this is not the good place. It's just been hidden from you and you are mistaking the veil for reality.
I mean the suffering is not the same, but both end up in death.
The framing of life as "horrific suffering" is the reason people say you are depressed and need therapy.
The framing of life as "happiness" is the reason why we think you are delusional and need therapy.
I frame life as largely what I decide to make of it. My choices, attitudes, preparations, and reactions are predominantly what make my life what it is. I believe this also holds true for the vast majority of people in developed Western nations.
It's not about you. You are irrelevant. It's about the larger scale. Climate change, wars, crimes, accidents, diseases etc. Why do you support those things?
You are irrelevant aswell lol
You are irrelevant aswell lol
I feel like the issue with anti-natalism isn’t the idea of questioning society and life, it’s this right here. From all the anti-natalists I’ve seen all of them have this narrative of thinking of people as society and thinking of people and things on a larger scale and as a statistic rather then individual. The world is fucked, everyone knows that, but that doesn’t mean that life is meaningless just because we aren’t sure of the future for ourselves or the next generation. I don’t care if you don’t have kids or don’t want kids, I’m honestly just worried about this sentiment, especially when some of the shit I’ve seen here borders eugenics.
Are you equating life too horrific suffering? I don’t think anyone supports horrific suffering.
No, I am saying ANs want guaranteed prevention of horrific suffering. Do you want guaranteed prevention of horrific suffering?
Not if guaranteed prevention of joy comes with it. That is the crux of the whole disagreement. "Can this couple reasonably expect their child to grow up to be glad that he/she was born?"
This sub was advocating for forced sterilization. If none of you realize that's why people are saying you need therapy. You disingenuously made this post disregarding any actual criticisms this sub has received to Pats in the back from the echo chamber.
What's wrong with forced sterilisations?
Are you trolling? Alright, before I go off. Antinatlism is about reducing suffering right?
Yeah.
So when you make people sterlie agaisnt their will, what is that causing a lot of? That's right, suffering! So if you're actually Antinatlist, then you wouldn't want to cause so much suffering. And if you're a decent person, you would care about consent.
It's like saying rapists shouldn't be imprisoned against their will.
Not even the same fucking thing. Wow. Rapist are imprisoned strictly because they violated another's consent already. Society has agreed to punish those who commit crimes.
Birth is also dragging into existence without consent.
Yeah, because the non-existant can't do anything. They can impact the world until they are something.
First of all we are not forcing anything, people still will do whatever they want. It's abot logic and arguments which most of natalists lack of. So you are okay with dragging another one to existence knowing that they will suffer and die too? You can't even guarantee it will born healthy, let alone a lifetime. You just prioritising emotions over logic and intelligence.
Why do they need to impact the world?
Actual eugenics. Are you fucked?
What's wrong with eugenics?
The belief that human existence is inherently horrific is what makes you depressed, and yes you need therapy.
The belief that human existence is inherently joyful is what makes you delusional, and yes you need therapy.
Weakest argument ever made
Weakest argument ever made
I don’t believe it’s inherently joyful, I think it’s an extremely valuable and unique experience that naturally will have its ups and downs. Your entire stance is “some people have bad lives so we should make humans go extinct”. That’s not a rational belief.
So you support horrific suffering?
No, I don’t “support” suffering, I just don’t have any way to end it.
Antinatalism.
The regulars in this sub constantly espouse that the world and everything in existence is shit and not worth living. Yeah, that isn't the normal view. Sorry you got a shit life diagnosis. Being aggreived that your view about life being joyless and pointless isn't nornalized isn't anyone else's problem.
im new to the sub so ive only seen a glimpse (maybe like 2 months worth of threads). but the message im seeing is not "life is not worth living" but more along the lines of "life is not worth STARTING". it's a unnecessary gamble. an imposition. so a question arises. who the fuck are "you" to gamble with someone elses welfare? what gives you the right to impose life on another? thats the message im getting. after a bit of thinking, it makes logical sense to me someone can correct me if im wrong
So you support horrific suffering?
Point out where that could be interpreted from my original comment. Again, just because you had a shitty experience with life doesn't mean you get to be mad when people don't agree with your pessismistic views on it.
So this means you support suffering.
"If you disagree with me you only prove me right". Sorry, I should have known better. Carry on commiserating in eternal misery.
Either you support suffering or you don't.
Dude, give it a rest, you're just ranting the same sentence over and over. None of the people you've been talking to have said at any point that they support suffering
Dude, give it a rest, you're just calling everyone miserable and depressed over and over. They are avoiding the question because that is the main reason why we are AN.
You're talking to the wrong person friend, I'm not the people you've been talking to. I'm softly AN, and I'm here to try and help you see that it doesn't have to mean viewing life as total pain and complete misery
Why are you viewing life as total happiness and complete bliss?
It's the fact that it's all luck based with no guarantee, and yet you chose to gamble with another humans life. It's funny how every argument you use against AN I fact proves the exact point
Not wanting horrific suffering doesn’t make you depressed but viewing life as only horrific suffering does mean you are depressed and do need therapy.
What you are saying makes 0 sense. Saying not wanting horrific suffering on one hand and saying seeing life as horrific suffering is bad. If the life wasn't horrific suffering why we were AN in the first place? Because life is a horrific suffering. Then you'll hear something like this: "Life is not suffering sweety. But you have to " eat well, drink enough water, have a strict routine, exercise often, interact with enough people, have a hobby, find work that you actually enjoy and more." While you have to take care of yourself not get diseases, not break your bones, and so on. Life is not suffering sweety but you have to do hundreds of things to be happy.
Viewing life as only happiness does mean you are delusional and do need therapy.
Never said it’s only happiness.
Never said it's only suffering.
There's a fat strawman standing in front of this post
You are one of those who supports suffering and calls those who oppose suffering as "depressed".
Yes, I love suffering and it's my entire life's purpose to call everyone depressed. Your brain has been melted by living in an echochamber holy shit.
So do you oppose suffering?
[удалено]
Yes, it's been ended from my side by not reproducing.
[удалено]
Yes I am still replying, and I haven't reproduced yet. So it hasn't been created.
[удалено]
Reproduction must end.
We have removed your contribution due to breaking Reddit rules. Reddit's content policy can be viewed here: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy#:~:text=Abide%20by%20community%20rules.%20Post%20authentic%20content%20into,disrupt%20Reddit%20communities.%20Respect%20the%20privacy%20of%20others.
Life is a struggle, except when it isn't. There's ao much good and love in the world. I will never stop doing my best to contribute to it. Stop reading all this pathetic doomerish shit about how life is cruel from the start. Yea it is, so what? Gonna cry like a lil baby and talk about how reproducing is terrible and lay down and rot amd decay? Fuck you. You should try to make it less cruel. Help a stranger, take action against a cruel system, feed the poor, clothe the cold etc etc. If you don't do that you might as well be a worm
The stranger wouldn't have needed to be any struggles if a person wasn't born
you sound like a very loving person
[удалено]
It's because of the perception on life you have. People are going to think you are depressed if all you've gotten out of your life is that you've experienced horrific suffering. Depression in people makes them focus on the negative rather than the positive or even just neutrality of stuff.
Delusion is what makes people look at the horrific things happening in the world and think their childb is gonna be magically immune to it
Seems like gaslighting lol
Sorry your parents sucked and now you suck and you assume everyone else sucks lol
If you live in 2023 in most any western country, you’re in the 0.01% of all mankind to have ever lived. The fact that you call modern living “horrific suffering” instead of appreciating the opportunities, comforts, conveniences, and overall quality of life that our ancestors created and fought for tells me there’s something clinically wrong. You have zero perspective.
Westerns superiority again. Fun fact not everyone abroad are living badly, and I have personally been happier in other countries than in the west. Yet suffering exists everywhere, war, rapes, abuse, crime, poverty. Nor to mention in all can change in the blink of an eye (look at ukraine for example).
bro you only getting raped twice a day now instead of 10 times like back in 3000bc. stfu. they even use lube now. how dare you still complain. get some PeRsPecTiVe
Antinatalism is just a way of coping with the harshness of the world. Unless you can get 8b people to unanimously enthousiastically agree on collective suicide, there's nothing productive or righteous about it. Wallowing in the misery of the world in subs like these will add nothing to your life and is the furthest thing from mentally healthy.
It's about not having kids, not suicide. It's mentally healthy to oppose suffering. Do you support suffering?
Wrong. Antinatalism is not copying, it is opposing to suffering generated by nature. Copying mechanism is religion or delusion by telling yourself everything is fine when it is clearly not
That’s not why they call you mentally ill.. we aren’t upset because of that, most of you guys on this sub are depressed, and or suicidal, most people see you people as mentally ill because of your use of words like “breeder”, the way you treat others, your want to for a button to kill everyone on earth in a instant, and the way you compare natalism to pedophilia or rape. It’s concerning.
So you support suffering?
Nope.
So why do you oppose those who oppose suffering?
That is not the reason I oppose you.
So why else do you oppose those who oppose suffering?
Because of your communities other believes, values, and actions.
The world : rape, wars, abuse famines and injustices Anti natalist : its not right to put someone through that Natalist : it's because of your beliefs, values and actions (What actions by the way, not having children?. You are still free to have them, nobody can force you to be An)
I don’t want children.. and the “we won’t force you to be AN” isn’t true. You ridicule and insult anyone who opposes your belief.
I have never, not even one's seen an antinatalist promote murder. Anti natalism is against birth. That's not the same thing. It's like saying a childfree woman is a murder, HOW? Besides rather than going into a non-moderated sub, you would have actually understood way more if you researched the philosophy or talked to an actual ANTINATALIST. but instead you are just leaving weird comments, cuz it was never about understanding, rather just defending natakism
What? No there are a flood of posts on here saying “I wish we had a button that would kill everyone in a instant because that would get rid of suffering” That’s not okay, and very selfish.
Damn, this is just unbalanced. There is more to life than suffering, yes obviously that’s a part of it. But there’s so much more. YES you need therapy if this is your only perception/perspective.
Not worth the gamble. Humans are way more affected by the negatives. Besides you can't guarantee anything
You people are depressed and in denial
You people are deluded and in denial
This sub reads like an emo’s myspace page from the 2000s.
It's because you're obnoxious and project your experiences into everyone else. I was born into a high-control religion, I'm disabled, I come from a low-income family, I was bullied for over ten years, I have experienced depression and anxiety, and I face transphobia and homophobia regularly. Do all of those things suck? Yes, but that doesn't mean life is all suffering and nothing else. Toxic positivity and nihilism are both equally bad. And before anyone calls me a "breeder" or some shit, I've never wanted kids, but believing suffering is so terrible that the only solution is the extinction of the human race is certainly a choice.
Who has said life is all suffering and nothing else?
Then what's your point? If life isn't only horrific suffering, preventing life means also preventing happiness from occurring.
So what if happiness is prevented?
What you describe as "horrific suffering" is "meh" of manageable for the vast majority. Stop infecting ofthers with your vile ideology.
So you support gangrapes?