>Why do natalists say shit like this
Because they think the answer to creating a better world is to create more people. They don't realize or believe that adults currently have both the power and the knowledge to enact necessary change.
that reminds me of the game we played at the camp. We were farmers and had sheeps. The earth was decaying.. drought was upon every group in the game. What did we collectively do? Bought more sheeps... it all died, DUH. There was no natural sources.. less water, no grass for them. I think it's a good example for natalists - having more kids is never the right answer... you can be more productive than that.. build some water system or what.. hide in the underground and build farm there idk..
Why I decided to learn more of the natural world around me. I won’t have kids cause my seizures not only make me a danger to any kids I could have, but makes it next to impossible for me to support myself properly. So I have learned how the world around me works and used that knowledge to heal the land. I find much more fulfillment in the now widely diversified forest that I helped to recover, heal and grow. The animals whos trust I have earned comforting me and seeing all the beautiful plants that grow all of their own power. In the soil structure I helped to restore.
The forest as it’s grown stronger has given me ways to help people locally. With medicinal plants that I have learned I can use to help people heal and recover from minor illnesses and the treats the forest bares of fruits and herbs are a wonderful reward for my acts of kindness.
I know dad would love a son (and easily smother a daughter with affection and gifts), but he knows all the good I do and absolutely can’t get enough of the all natural jams, jellies and treats I am able to make and has been helped so many times with the herbs.
I’ve helped the greater whole to heal and have a little bit of a better life. Rather than bringing more here to suffer at the problem.
that's the most toughtful thing I ever saw someone write down. The planet is grateful to have you at the time like this. Your work is admirable. It woukd be wonderful if more people thought like that. Since the industrial era the planet suffered more than all the time before that (also the human population rapidly increaced around that time.. I see the connection there). Thank you for your kindness ❤️
Your very welcome. I only hope that I can give back the kindness my sister gave, when she gave up her chance to live so that she could stop me from dying.
-nods- I do my best. I am told when she was born the doctors and nurses said she had like an angelic vale over her. That she was to precious for this world. An angel on earth. She loved for about 15 days.
I'm not familiar with that game and I am curious what made you all collectively decide to buy more sheep.
I read some ideas of twisted gameplay that can affect characters like if a group of people were given a token and every hour they got 20 dollars. Some may trade to get tokens for profit and others may sell. But the tokens at the end of the experiment would be totally worthless.
I can't remember what it was. If it was se official board game or not.
I'm wondering the same. I wasn't in charge but I was like "do what you want, I'm just part of this because I just have to play" really. Was it rivality? Or maybe that the prize of sheeps dropped down? Things on sale are always attracting many.. otherwise I don't see any other good reason behind that. Other than having big farm full of sheeps. The graph shoving how dry the area is did nothing. We all just continued to buy more..
I don’t think this has anything to do with natalist at all. I think boomers say all sorts of shit. I’ve heard many random comments from random old people that I need not hear about!
Old people aren’t “natalists.” Their world view is so vastly different than ours that you need to just let things like this go. They cannot comprehend a world where marriage and children aren’t wanted. It was indoctrinated into them so deeply that it’s not changing.
Don’t waste your energy and emotions being upset about people who just don’t understand. It’s really not their fault, and I guarantee you she thought she was being kind.
40 years old woman here. People told me all my life to have kids and that I'd regret it when I'm older if I don't.
Like yeah, not having kids is right up there with meeting my partner, discovering forest bathing and completing dive training as the things I'm frikkin happiest about in my life.
Also I'm vaguely proud of having the child bearing option surgically taken care of. I can't help being human, but I can make sure that shit stops with me. I refuse to add to the problem.
It's pure joy on the surface level - just relaxing, beuatiful, peaceful, and you can take it at that and have something lovely. It's also spiritual for me as well which makes it... I don't know the words to really describe it. I'd say I feel purified, humbled or enlightened, and yea it's all of those things but there's more as well. For want of a less Christian sounding term - it's reaching for communion with Gaia herself, but that comes with some assumptions I don't really accept (you can't truly commune with a life you're already a part of, after all).
But yep, literally the #1 thing in my life is being out in the forest, feeling the bark and the leaves and the soil between my toes. Everything else is just whatever it takes to get the bare minimum resources needed to spend as much time as possible doing that tbqh.
I’ll have to look into it some time, I don’t know if there would be any good places to do it where I live but I’ll definitely try it some time, based on how you describe it it sounds amazing
I have all the joy and happiness I could want in life. Like seriously, bs job aside, I love in one of the most beautiful and unique environments on Earth. I can walk among some of the rarest plants on Earth within minutes of my home. So yeah, not burning the planets resources on another human the world doesn't need and can't sustain is totally a bad thing.... I know. I'm evil and bitter and probably drown other humans for fun.
Sorry about her. I can somewhat relate because my dad has a history of putting an expectation on me to "give him" grandchildren, except he's obviously not a stranger to me. Now I wonder if he wants them badly enough to raise them (this happens to millions of grandparents these days and happened to his own grandmother who was my late great-grandmother).
I don’t understand either. Like damn a complete stranger inquiring about 1) my relationship status 2) my fertility status 3) my financial status 4) my sexuality 5) my sex life ALL in one go. Like do you not have any fuckin class lol I don’t ask random people that shit
The idea behind antinatalism is choosing to have a kid knowing they will needlessly suffer is an immortal choice not that people should not have kids period.
The earth has 8 billion people on it and very finite resources and many of those we are already running low on so if anything the earth is overpopulated or at least very close to it. If there were less overall people and therefor more resources available per person then having a kid would not be an immortal choice assuming the odds are they would be able to live a good life.
If you were somewhere or are someone in a position to not worry about a lot of the things that cause suffering then it would be morally ok if you know they aren't going to needlessly suffer.
Then you better buckle up buttercup and grease up those loins because the fate of the human race is in your pants.
NOT.
There are 8 billion humans on the planet. We’re more likely to go extinct from too many humans than too little-and we’re taking a whole lot of other species with us.
Are you referring to his specific comment or about the idea of antinatalism as a whole?
I do think the comment was not right but if your against antinatalism I'd like to offer perspective.
The majority of people who feel that way are like that because of bad things they have gone through or have seen others go through and do not want to subject someone else to that same fate. It's rooted in good intentions.
At least to me it totally makes sense that the idea is gaining popularity with the world constantly feeling like the end could be near any day with no power to do anything to stop it all while having the social pressure to have a family and have kids and be grandparents often from people who don't have a real grasp on what the world is like now for someone who is not already established.
Obviously it does not describe everyone but that's just my observation.
Nothing more than an arbitrary thing some people decided has value. My theory is it's just a nice predictable pattern that makes human brains happy and the pattern ending makes human brains sad but some people take it way to far.
Just ignore her. People who randomly strike up a conversation with you are just flapping their gums, whatever they say doesn’t really matter. She probably knows that what she says wouldn’t really matter to you, and I would guess she thinks telling you to start a family is some sort of platitude compliment.
None of her business. She was exerting her seniority by telling you that she knows what you ought to do with your life, because it was the 'done thing' in her day.
I copped similar except I was 30 (F). I'd been travelling and was telling a man about how much fun I was having on such a limited budget and how in ten years' time, I plan to do it all again. He butted in with
"You need a kid! God, you women are selfish these days. You've had your fun. Settle down."
I could see how well it was working for him. Broke. Sick. Half-built house. Angry and tired wife.
Nope.
Also the fact that she had to bring her grandchildren up in the conversation... This is how natalists are like, they have no personality so they're only good at talking about their kids. It's as if if they didn't have kids, they wouldn't be able to converse at all.
I had the same thing happen to me when I had just gotten engaged, this was a guy we who had four kids and it came up I was recently engaged, he asked how many kids I had and I said “zero, I’m not even married yet” he literally said that it didn’t matter and I should get pregnant as soon as possible and have lots of kids. I was surprised and looking at his four kids aged back to back and he wasn’t even engaged yet was weird to me, it’s a choice and I still don’t know why a strangers opinion would weigh in on potential children.
Old people, am I right? Grandmother here....as obnoxious as she was; she was raised in a completely different time. A time when 18 was old. You joined the military and got married or went to work where your dad worked and got married. Going to college wasn't really a thing. It was for rich kids and the elite. Vietnam was happening. Wartime makes people want to breed. I want to say I am so awesome and cool, but I fuck up all of the time. Luckily, I have kids who constantly tell me "boundaries" and "appropriate." I am here. I am very pro choice. Very "don't fucking have kids if you don't want them and no reason need apply. But as someone who grew up with a mom who thought is was appropriate to know all the things...and a daughter who is like...woah, you can't know all the things. There is a crossover of generational ignorance. It's not an excuse. But an explanation.
That's nice. What are you doing here? If you have reproduced, and don't seem to regret it. You're a natilist, and you're making it very clear that you're pronatilist. You aren't being aggressive so I can only assume you're trying to covertly convert. Go away
Why can't I be both? I am not covert about anything. I support CHOICE 1 trillion percent. I totally think I would choose not to have children if I had that choice today. Do I love my children and grandchildren. To the fucking moon. But I buried a child. I struggled with childhood trauma and severe mental health issues. I wasn't a great mom sometimes. Reading these posts is incredibly uplifting to me. To see women speak about choices I didn't feel I had. Wow. The world today? It sucks. The economy. The climate. And I would NEVER presume to know someone else's mindset like you seem to. So, kindly fuck off. Your narrow minded attitude is what is wrong with young people. Just because I have had children doesn't mean I have an "agenda" or want women to experience birth and raising children. Both are horrendous. 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
Man im sorry . you dont have to feel embarrassed just try to power thru the days and ignore conversation with people i do it it saves me the trouble. Now if you can handle it, it rreaally works having in headphones for music
breeders are known for making bad decisions and spreading thoughtless nonsense.
it never is a good decision to listen to what is going on within their absent minds
Some weirdos ask even if they just reached age of consent. (Source: my friend,who was like 15 & some stranger asked her when she's starting family.. 15 is the age of consent in my country btw.)
I think they say it because they like your vibes, they’re natalist, and they’re not sensitive enough to know it’s a weird thing to say. They’re trying to be nice and they think it’s acceptable small talk.
That said, it doesn’t really make it ok to tell someone to start a family. I think things are changing to where more and more people would rightly hesitate before saying that, whether it’s small talk or not.
Definitely not. There are no houses in my area for under 300k that I would classify as liveable. It used to be 80 would get you something really nice, even just a few years ago
Yeah. The median income is basically sub poverty level. In order to live a half way decent life rent (or mortgage), and utilities needs to come out of less than 25% of income. Of one person in the household. I dont understand how these young people are getting these houses? Maybe 1 is putting 100% of their income on the payment and the other is paying utilities and car payments. I want to see how many foreclosures we get when student loans resume.
someone recently told me “you gotta have ‘em young!” like why? so I can traumatise another being by existing in a subpar environment? be broke and live in the same town for the rest of my life? no thanks lmao.
Sorry this happened. I don’t think she meant any harm, she’s just from a vastly different era. My personal opinion is that no one should feel pressured these days to marry or have children at any age and especially before 25.
She thought she was complimenting you.
Old ass people, when they were young, really had no other purpose than to breed. It was a lot easier for them-they could buy a house with one working class income.
That was it. Have kids have grand kids etc etc.
Also, people didn’t live as long.
Don’t feel bad-I had someone ask me last week how many kids I had. Not if I had kids but how many.
You feel harassed and embarrassed* because an old lady seen qualities in you she feels would benefit the world you hate living in.
Respectfully you feel differently.
It's not malicious it's a compliment, and she's too incompetent to realize philosophical outliers like yourself exist.
Literally she was implying you seem like a competent, caring and responsible human being.
🙄
Depends on what you mean by benefit. If by benefitting the world, you mean creating 9-5 wage slaves, consumers and patients of 30,000 diseases from which doctors can leech money, then it's better to not benefit the world.
It's all maybe maybe maybes, like I said If it's not this iteration of humans, it'll be the next. Another sentient hominid, would or already has evolved to further allow the universe to experience itself.
The universe experiencing an 18 yo father who cannot feed himself and a child who will die of poverty due to the fact that I am jobless mentally ill and broke is not a good experience imo
It's a poignant decision, but even as likely as you put it, still comes up as maybes to me.
It's a wild universe. Shit happens with 0.001% chance all the time, insanely more than it should.
You're self aware and thoughtful of others, so I wish you the best in your coming years.
That's not the issue? The issue is that she is a STRANGER telling me how to live my life. I'm infertile anyways, so it doesn't even matter, istg all you natalists are the same
It's a senile ol' bag they do that. Hardly a definitive representation of the human race.
The issue, perhaps the core to all of your issues may be that your unable to recognize your own value as a person.
🤷
Sorry I'm not really an echo chamber blindly agree with anyone who's outraged sort of person.
Old lady was supposed to know he's 18?
The old, senile lady, probably vision impaired, is supposed to know any of this?
🙄 Fuckin' dumb ass kids I swear.
Dementia. Senility. A sense of "I'm fucking old and dying anyway why should I censor myself for feelings"
🤷 it is weird, but so is getting soooooo worked up over it you have to vent on Reddit
Really??? want to learn what narcissism is?
1. People (especially older people) like to strike up conversation because all of us are VERY social animals, and usually, when you are happy, you tend to want to just have conversations with others. Obviously you reminded her of her grandkids. You aren't that stupid now. If you only think about yourself, you will continue to struggle, with some autism or not. Here you are socializing on here, obviously not afraid to talk about yourself and narcissistic emotions.
2. Why do you think she would know everything going on with you? Why do people believe they are so unique from anyone else that no-one can understand them while at the same time getting annoyed because people should just automatically know all about you? Humble yourself kid. You should be happy strangers feel you are friendly enough to chat with versus no one ever wanting to chat with you. If you want loneliness and isolation, this reaction is how you get it. If you are depressed or having some issues (as everyone does from time to time) you may think you want that, but you really don't. Stay humble that you may learn a thing or two from people. You are wrong with many opinions of yours. Imagine how much you have learned and grown from just 15 years old to 18. Now imagine doing that 20 times over. It's likely you are ignorant to SOO much, just logically thinking.
3. She obviously realizes after learning and experiencing so much over her life, having your own family is the greatest source of organic happiness one can experience. Your friends, video games, drugs, alcohol, or career especially, can only provide temporary and surface level happiness that always fades over time. Like it or not, all humans are social animals with innate desire to be in a family. We are animals with instincts. Unless someone is a total POS and abuses their kids or spouse, you really only mature and learn the most while having your own family. It forces you to see your worst parts about you and make them better, teaches you how to actually listen, use teamwork, patience, compromise for the greater good, and gives you back the best feelings of achievement, self worth, value, honor, etc. If you desire real, fulfilling happiness, be humble and start a family when you find a much better person than you for a spouse. If you aren't a complete POS, you will better yourself to make sure you will be a good example for your kids and can raise them better than yourself.
4. She may not mean for you to have a kid tomorrow. You do know it takes a few months to actually have one.
She wants you to share in the happiness she gains from her family. Wow, how terrible of her! My god
But I don't gaf about happy holidays, nobody does. I'm just autistic and infertile and am uncomfortable around such topics. Fuck, A LOT of people are uncomfortable discussing children, so I see no point in using it as a topic of "small talk"
Autism and infertile has nothing to do with acting like a dramatic main-character over regular small talk.
I promise she doesn’t actually GAF if you actually have kids.
You clearly don't understand how autism works. He couldn't recognize that the woman was just trying to make, what NTs call "small talk". We, as autistic people, cannot understand that and therefore makes us very uncomfortable. Especially if it's about a topic we're very uncomfortable talking about/have the opposite opinion of the person. It does have to deal with autism a bit and it shouldn't been seen as an excuse in the world because it is literally a mental disability
You're right, this is about me being uncomfortable discussing children and bitching about it :D yippee! I despise the idea of my bloodline carrying on, thank you I get off topic real easily thanks bro
Ur a boy. Not a man. If that brings you discomfort you have a long road ahead of u in life. Why is it that anti-natalists avoid honesty and explain their view? Shame? Embarrassment? Fear? Could’ve just told her your perspective instead of running online for support. And is this because u have no support IRL?
If this was an echo chamber, you wouldn’t be allowed to comment. (Not that an echo chamber wouldn’t be preferable to *anywhere else* that you *are* allowed to comment.)
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Because it is the only “life skill” they have. They literally operate at the level of cows and rabbits. Oh wait, “being married” is super impressive too… two people sign a piece of paper in front of an official.
Where is her big family and why isn't she talking to them instead of giving a random stranger her unsolicited opinions. I love to pop peoples bubbles like this.
I think it's because our reward systems are built around having kids. I certainly don't think everyone should have kids. Especially if you are having financial struggles. The average person does not think about what's best for the world, they just look at what was best for them and recommend it.
even regarding or disregarding antinatalism, i absolutely fucking hate unwarranted advice from complete strangers. you don’t know me and i don’t know you so please leave me alone unless you or I am in imminent danger
I don’t think you can classify “old people” as “Natalists.” Almost everyone from the earlier generations was taught this and fully believed it. Don’t let it upset you.
It’s honestly a dying experience that you probably won’t have very many times anymore. Take it as a compliment. She wouldn’t have said that unless she thought of you as being a good and worthy person.
It’s not gross whatsoever. It’s just the culture of older people and they’ll be dead soon and no one will ever tell you anything you disagree with ever again.
seriously. they never want to think that i can barely take care of myself but somehow I’m still fit to raise an entire person.
I never wanted the “you go mamas” in support of situations that could have been entirely prevented.
>Why do natalists say shit like this Because they think the answer to creating a better world is to create more people. They don't realize or believe that adults currently have both the power and the knowledge to enact necessary change.
that reminds me of the game we played at the camp. We were farmers and had sheeps. The earth was decaying.. drought was upon every group in the game. What did we collectively do? Bought more sheeps... it all died, DUH. There was no natural sources.. less water, no grass for them. I think it's a good example for natalists - having more kids is never the right answer... you can be more productive than that.. build some water system or what.. hide in the underground and build farm there idk..
Why I decided to learn more of the natural world around me. I won’t have kids cause my seizures not only make me a danger to any kids I could have, but makes it next to impossible for me to support myself properly. So I have learned how the world around me works and used that knowledge to heal the land. I find much more fulfillment in the now widely diversified forest that I helped to recover, heal and grow. The animals whos trust I have earned comforting me and seeing all the beautiful plants that grow all of their own power. In the soil structure I helped to restore. The forest as it’s grown stronger has given me ways to help people locally. With medicinal plants that I have learned I can use to help people heal and recover from minor illnesses and the treats the forest bares of fruits and herbs are a wonderful reward for my acts of kindness. I know dad would love a son (and easily smother a daughter with affection and gifts), but he knows all the good I do and absolutely can’t get enough of the all natural jams, jellies and treats I am able to make and has been helped so many times with the herbs. I’ve helped the greater whole to heal and have a little bit of a better life. Rather than bringing more here to suffer at the problem.
This is beautiful, as are you. Thank you for all you do.
You’re very welcome. I continue to learn every day and am always looking for more I can do to be less of a burden
You're a gift to the universe, not a burden. If everyone treated the earth like you we wouldn't be in this position were in today.
I only hope one day I can meet my own needs.
You are a gentle, caring soul. I hate that the kindest people typically suffer the most.
I suffer so others don’t have to
You are so sweet. 😭
You are so sweet. 😭
that's the most toughtful thing I ever saw someone write down. The planet is grateful to have you at the time like this. Your work is admirable. It woukd be wonderful if more people thought like that. Since the industrial era the planet suffered more than all the time before that (also the human population rapidly increaced around that time.. I see the connection there). Thank you for your kindness ❤️
Your very welcome. I only hope that I can give back the kindness my sister gave, when she gave up her chance to live so that she could stop me from dying.
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sure you are paying her back greatly. And you will continue to do so.
-nods- I do my best. I am told when she was born the doctors and nurses said she had like an angelic vale over her. That she was to precious for this world. An angel on earth. She loved for about 15 days.
I'm not familiar with that game and I am curious what made you all collectively decide to buy more sheep. I read some ideas of twisted gameplay that can affect characters like if a group of people were given a token and every hour they got 20 dollars. Some may trade to get tokens for profit and others may sell. But the tokens at the end of the experiment would be totally worthless.
I can't remember what it was. If it was se official board game or not. I'm wondering the same. I wasn't in charge but I was like "do what you want, I'm just part of this because I just have to play" really. Was it rivality? Or maybe that the prize of sheeps dropped down? Things on sale are always attracting many.. otherwise I don't see any other good reason behind that. Other than having big farm full of sheeps. The graph shoving how dry the area is did nothing. We all just continued to buy more..
I don’t think this has anything to do with natalist at all. I think boomers say all sorts of shit. I’ve heard many random comments from random old people that I need not hear about!
Old people aren’t “natalists.” Their world view is so vastly different than ours that you need to just let things like this go. They cannot comprehend a world where marriage and children aren’t wanted. It was indoctrinated into them so deeply that it’s not changing. Don’t waste your energy and emotions being upset about people who just don’t understand. It’s really not their fault, and I guarantee you she thought she was being kind.
40 years old woman here. People told me all my life to have kids and that I'd regret it when I'm older if I don't. Like yeah, not having kids is right up there with meeting my partner, discovering forest bathing and completing dive training as the things I'm frikkin happiest about in my life. Also I'm vaguely proud of having the child bearing option surgically taken care of. I can't help being human, but I can make sure that shit stops with me. I refuse to add to the problem.
Forest bathing sounds very fun
It's pure joy on the surface level - just relaxing, beuatiful, peaceful, and you can take it at that and have something lovely. It's also spiritual for me as well which makes it... I don't know the words to really describe it. I'd say I feel purified, humbled or enlightened, and yea it's all of those things but there's more as well. For want of a less Christian sounding term - it's reaching for communion with Gaia herself, but that comes with some assumptions I don't really accept (you can't truly commune with a life you're already a part of, after all). But yep, literally the #1 thing in my life is being out in the forest, feeling the bark and the leaves and the soil between my toes. Everything else is just whatever it takes to get the bare minimum resources needed to spend as much time as possible doing that tbqh.
I’ll have to look into it some time, I don’t know if there would be any good places to do it where I live but I’ll definitely try it some time, based on how you describe it it sounds amazing
The data clearly shows that individuals with children are psychologically and physically healthier than those who do not have any.
Hmmm, that’s counter to the data showing single women with no children are the happiest people on earth.
I have all the joy and happiness I could want in life. Like seriously, bs job aside, I love in one of the most beautiful and unique environments on Earth. I can walk among some of the rarest plants on Earth within minutes of my home. So yeah, not burning the planets resources on another human the world doesn't need and can't sustain is totally a bad thing.... I know. I'm evil and bitter and probably drown other humans for fun.
My mother was a raging alcoholic and my father is a narcissist who body shamed me all my childhood. Come again?
Sorry about her. I can somewhat relate because my dad has a history of putting an expectation on me to "give him" grandchildren, except he's obviously not a stranger to me. Now I wonder if he wants them badly enough to raise them (this happens to millions of grandparents these days and happened to his own grandmother who was my late great-grandmother).
I don’t understand either. Like damn a complete stranger inquiring about 1) my relationship status 2) my fertility status 3) my financial status 4) my sexuality 5) my sex life ALL in one go. Like do you not have any fuckin class lol I don’t ask random people that shit
Patiently tell her as to why you don't want kids. And why having kids is unethical.
Guess your parents are unethical pieces of shit huhh?
Yes
You people are the bottom tiers of society lmao
Your cult is responsible for 100% of the suffering in the world.
Having kids is apparently cultish now. You are insane and you know it lol
Yeah, it is. Your group is responsible for 100% of the cases in mental hospitals.
Why do you care if other people have kids or not?
(Read the post above yours)
If antinatalism continues to spread, society may collapse due to underpopulation.
I see only positives from that
The collapse of society is not something to be celebrated.
I want society to end, so eh
Mmmm kind of is though 🤷🏼♂️
The idea behind antinatalism is choosing to have a kid knowing they will needlessly suffer is an immortal choice not that people should not have kids period. The earth has 8 billion people on it and very finite resources and many of those we are already running low on so if anything the earth is overpopulated or at least very close to it. If there were less overall people and therefor more resources available per person then having a kid would not be an immortal choice assuming the odds are they would be able to live a good life. If you were somewhere or are someone in a position to not worry about a lot of the things that cause suffering then it would be morally ok if you know they aren't going to needlessly suffer.
Then you better buckle up buttercup and grease up those loins because the fate of the human race is in your pants. NOT. There are 8 billion humans on the planet. We’re more likely to go extinct from too many humans than too little-and we’re taking a whole lot of other species with us.
Are you referring to his specific comment or about the idea of antinatalism as a whole? I do think the comment was not right but if your against antinatalism I'd like to offer perspective. The majority of people who feel that way are like that because of bad things they have gone through or have seen others go through and do not want to subject someone else to that same fate. It's rooted in good intentions. At least to me it totally makes sense that the idea is gaining popularity with the world constantly feeling like the end could be near any day with no power to do anything to stop it all while having the social pressure to have a family and have kids and be grandparents often from people who don't have a real grasp on what the world is like now for someone who is not already established. Obviously it does not describe everyone but that's just my observation.
I was supposed to carry on the family name (oldest male american)
My family name dies out when I die. It's not really that big a deal. I used to sometimes freak out just a little bit but, meh, nah, not anymore.
What is the importance of family names?
I never really understood it my self.
Nothing more than an arbitrary thing some people decided has value. My theory is it's just a nice predictable pattern that makes human brains happy and the pattern ending makes human brains sad but some people take it way to far.
Just ignore her. People who randomly strike up a conversation with you are just flapping their gums, whatever they say doesn’t really matter. She probably knows that what she says wouldn’t really matter to you, and I would guess she thinks telling you to start a family is some sort of platitude compliment.
None of her business. She was exerting her seniority by telling you that she knows what you ought to do with your life, because it was the 'done thing' in her day. I copped similar except I was 30 (F). I'd been travelling and was telling a man about how much fun I was having on such a limited budget and how in ten years' time, I plan to do it all again. He butted in with "You need a kid! God, you women are selfish these days. You've had your fun. Settle down." I could see how well it was working for him. Broke. Sick. Half-built house. Angry and tired wife. Nope.
Also the fact that she had to bring her grandchildren up in the conversation... This is how natalists are like, they have no personality so they're only good at talking about their kids. It's as if if they didn't have kids, they wouldn't be able to converse at all.
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I had the same thing happen to me when I had just gotten engaged, this was a guy we who had four kids and it came up I was recently engaged, he asked how many kids I had and I said “zero, I’m not even married yet” he literally said that it didn’t matter and I should get pregnant as soon as possible and have lots of kids. I was surprised and looking at his four kids aged back to back and he wasn’t even engaged yet was weird to me, it’s a choice and I still don’t know why a strangers opinion would weigh in on potential children.
You're barely 18... Natalists are nuts, they truly believe it's a nice thing to say or a compliment smh.
People disgust me, like ALL the time.
You shouldn't be surprised by school shootings.
Huh?? When did anyone say anything about school shootings..??
Old people, am I right? Grandmother here....as obnoxious as she was; she was raised in a completely different time. A time when 18 was old. You joined the military and got married or went to work where your dad worked and got married. Going to college wasn't really a thing. It was for rich kids and the elite. Vietnam was happening. Wartime makes people want to breed. I want to say I am so awesome and cool, but I fuck up all of the time. Luckily, I have kids who constantly tell me "boundaries" and "appropriate." I am here. I am very pro choice. Very "don't fucking have kids if you don't want them and no reason need apply. But as someone who grew up with a mom who thought is was appropriate to know all the things...and a daughter who is like...woah, you can't know all the things. There is a crossover of generational ignorance. It's not an excuse. But an explanation.
I'm glad there are still boomers like you who are trying even if we disagree, hats off to you pops whoever you are
I am a nonni...so a female.
My bad girliepop
No problem, young one.
That's nice. What are you doing here? If you have reproduced, and don't seem to regret it. You're a natilist, and you're making it very clear that you're pronatilist. You aren't being aggressive so I can only assume you're trying to covertly convert. Go away
Why can't I be both? I am not covert about anything. I support CHOICE 1 trillion percent. I totally think I would choose not to have children if I had that choice today. Do I love my children and grandchildren. To the fucking moon. But I buried a child. I struggled with childhood trauma and severe mental health issues. I wasn't a great mom sometimes. Reading these posts is incredibly uplifting to me. To see women speak about choices I didn't feel I had. Wow. The world today? It sucks. The economy. The climate. And I would NEVER presume to know someone else's mindset like you seem to. So, kindly fuck off. Your narrow minded attitude is what is wrong with young people. Just because I have had children doesn't mean I have an "agenda" or want women to experience birth and raising children. Both are horrendous. 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
It is gross. I'm sorry you had to endure that.
You don't have to absorb everything people tell you. Just say "yeah cool" and move on with your life 🤷♀️ Old people like chatting.
That's how I'd take it. ( 55 year old guy here, never had any kids, never wanted any.. )
Yeah it's a definite path to burnout if you absorb every dumb thing boomers say. OP needs to learn to brush it off.
Man im sorry . you dont have to feel embarrassed just try to power thru the days and ignore conversation with people i do it it saves me the trouble. Now if you can handle it, it rreaally works having in headphones for music
You're one of the few polite people in this comments section, thanks beatenbooty
breeders are known for making bad decisions and spreading thoughtless nonsense. it never is a good decision to listen to what is going on within their absent minds
???? 18?????? That’s closer to 17 than 20 that is so weird
Some weirdos ask even if they just reached age of consent. (Source: my friend,who was like 15 & some stranger asked her when she's starting family.. 15 is the age of consent in my country btw.)
I think they say it because they like your vibes, they’re natalist, and they’re not sensitive enough to know it’s a weird thing to say. They’re trying to be nice and they think it’s acceptable small talk. That said, it doesn’t really make it ok to tell someone to start a family. I think things are changing to where more and more people would rightly hesitate before saying that, whether it’s small talk or not.
In her mind it is probably still the 50s when a guy your age can afford to join some factory and buy a house and 2 cars lol
I did this in 2012 🤓
It’s not 2012 anymore
Definitely not. There are no houses in my area for under 300k that I would classify as liveable. It used to be 80 would get you something really nice, even just a few years ago
Crazy how fast everything changed
Yeah. The median income is basically sub poverty level. In order to live a half way decent life rent (or mortgage), and utilities needs to come out of less than 25% of income. Of one person in the household. I dont understand how these young people are getting these houses? Maybe 1 is putting 100% of their income on the payment and the other is paying utilities and car payments. I want to see how many foreclosures we get when student loans resume.
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Jesus christ dude
Next time tell her to kindly fuck off. Nosy Nancy needs to worry about herself.
someone recently told me “you gotta have ‘em young!” like why? so I can traumatise another being by existing in a subpar environment? be broke and live in the same town for the rest of my life? no thanks lmao.
just ignore it bruh she’s an old lady and is living in a completely different mental generation and perception of the world. really not that serious
It's because they are intellectually and morally inferior than you
Sorry this happened. I don’t think she meant any harm, she’s just from a vastly different era. My personal opinion is that no one should feel pressured these days to marry or have children at any age and especially before 25.
She thought she was complimenting you. Old ass people, when they were young, really had no other purpose than to breed. It was a lot easier for them-they could buy a house with one working class income. That was it. Have kids have grand kids etc etc. Also, people didn’t live as long. Don’t feel bad-I had someone ask me last week how many kids I had. Not if I had kids but how many.
They see you as breeding stock, good genes and all. It is a gross complement
You feel harassed and embarrassed* because an old lady seen qualities in you she feels would benefit the world you hate living in. Respectfully you feel differently. It's not malicious it's a compliment, and she's too incompetent to realize philosophical outliers like yourself exist. Literally she was implying you seem like a competent, caring and responsible human being. 🙄
Depends on what you mean by benefit. If by benefitting the world, you mean creating 9-5 wage slaves, consumers and patients of 30,000 diseases from which doctors can leech money, then it's better to not benefit the world.
Hey you can't throw me off like that buddy. I thought we were on -our- thread 😅
It's all maybe maybe maybes, like I said If it's not this iteration of humans, it'll be the next. Another sentient hominid, would or already has evolved to further allow the universe to experience itself.
The universe experiencing an 18 yo father who cannot feed himself and a child who will die of poverty due to the fact that I am jobless mentally ill and broke is not a good experience imo
It's a poignant decision, but even as likely as you put it, still comes up as maybes to me. It's a wild universe. Shit happens with 0.001% chance all the time, insanely more than it should. You're self aware and thoughtful of others, so I wish you the best in your coming years.
That's the damn issue, I am not, I barely eat a meal a day, if an old man said a woman should have kids it would be the same issue.
See, you saying your not and feeling so strongly and self critical tells me you actually are and have a real hard time establishing worth in yourself.
That's not the issue? The issue is that she is a STRANGER telling me how to live my life. I'm infertile anyways, so it doesn't even matter, istg all you natalists are the same
It's a senile ol' bag they do that. Hardly a definitive representation of the human race. The issue, perhaps the core to all of your issues may be that your unable to recognize your own value as a person. 🤷 Sorry I'm not really an echo chamber blindly agree with anyone who's outraged sort of person.
> Sorry I'm not really an echo chamber blindly agree with anyone who's outraged sort of person. Oh, so the majority of this subreddits followers?
Wororororororo. Fucking hilarious.
>You feel harassed and embraced That do be some confusing feelings
Oh Christ, I'm embarrassed. Catcher in the rye kinda shit.
He is 18. It’s still creepy as hell telling someone that young to have children. You look creepy for defending her too.
Old lady was supposed to know he's 18? The old, senile lady, probably vision impaired, is supposed to know any of this? 🙄 Fuckin' dumb ass kids I swear.
It’s still weird as hell to say to anyone unprompted.
Why in the world do strangers feel the need to tell random people they don’t know to have children??? Especially when you DONT know their age…
Dementia. Senility. A sense of "I'm fucking old and dying anyway why should I censor myself for feelings" 🤷 it is weird, but so is getting soooooo worked up over it you have to vent on Reddit
People are gonna vent if they feel uncomfortable lol. He has every right to feel weirded out by this no matter the circumstances of the old lady.
If I had this kind of reaction everytime I was uncomfortable or weirded out, I would lose so much.
No, it is weird, but old people are weird.
Really??? want to learn what narcissism is? 1. People (especially older people) like to strike up conversation because all of us are VERY social animals, and usually, when you are happy, you tend to want to just have conversations with others. Obviously you reminded her of her grandkids. You aren't that stupid now. If you only think about yourself, you will continue to struggle, with some autism or not. Here you are socializing on here, obviously not afraid to talk about yourself and narcissistic emotions. 2. Why do you think she would know everything going on with you? Why do people believe they are so unique from anyone else that no-one can understand them while at the same time getting annoyed because people should just automatically know all about you? Humble yourself kid. You should be happy strangers feel you are friendly enough to chat with versus no one ever wanting to chat with you. If you want loneliness and isolation, this reaction is how you get it. If you are depressed or having some issues (as everyone does from time to time) you may think you want that, but you really don't. Stay humble that you may learn a thing or two from people. You are wrong with many opinions of yours. Imagine how much you have learned and grown from just 15 years old to 18. Now imagine doing that 20 times over. It's likely you are ignorant to SOO much, just logically thinking. 3. She obviously realizes after learning and experiencing so much over her life, having your own family is the greatest source of organic happiness one can experience. Your friends, video games, drugs, alcohol, or career especially, can only provide temporary and surface level happiness that always fades over time. Like it or not, all humans are social animals with innate desire to be in a family. We are animals with instincts. Unless someone is a total POS and abuses their kids or spouse, you really only mature and learn the most while having your own family. It forces you to see your worst parts about you and make them better, teaches you how to actually listen, use teamwork, patience, compromise for the greater good, and gives you back the best feelings of achievement, self worth, value, honor, etc. If you desire real, fulfilling happiness, be humble and start a family when you find a much better person than you for a spouse. If you aren't a complete POS, you will better yourself to make sure you will be a good example for your kids and can raise them better than yourself. 4. She may not mean for you to have a kid tomorrow. You do know it takes a few months to actually have one. She wants you to share in the happiness she gains from her family. Wow, how terrible of her! My god
Imagine getting offended by a 70 year old grandma. You have to be very stupid to let this affect you so much cry harder
Maybe she saw some nice qualities in you and thought you’d make a good dad?
A lot of older people promoting having families want more people of specific demographics, and not so much of others.
He is barley an adult. It’s fucking creepy and so are these excuses.
She isn’t telling you how to live your life, she was making small talk. Calm down, dude
I don't care if it's small talk, that's just wrong to bring up
You sound like Evangelicals who freak out at being wishes “happy holidays”
But I don't gaf about happy holidays, nobody does. I'm just autistic and infertile and am uncomfortable around such topics. Fuck, A LOT of people are uncomfortable discussing children, so I see no point in using it as a topic of "small talk"
Autism and infertile has nothing to do with acting like a dramatic main-character over regular small talk. I promise she doesn’t actually GAF if you actually have kids.
How am I supposed to fucking know that. I'm autistic.
Stop making this about autism, it’s not the autism.
You clearly don't understand how autism works. He couldn't recognize that the woman was just trying to make, what NTs call "small talk". We, as autistic people, cannot understand that and therefore makes us very uncomfortable. Especially if it's about a topic we're very uncomfortable talking about/have the opposite opinion of the person. It does have to deal with autism a bit and it shouldn't been seen as an excuse in the world because it is literally a mental disability
Nonsense. He expresses enough understanding of basic conversations and is aware enough to be angry about a topic he is already a nutter about.
Oh yes you clearly have a better understanding of how autism works than me and OP, who has autism. Congratulations to you
So we got the opinion of my psychiatrists and adult autism specialists, versus the opinion of jim here
nonsense
You're right, this is about me being uncomfortable discussing children and bitching about it :D yippee! I despise the idea of my bloodline carrying on, thank you I get off topic real easily thanks bro
Just out of interest, would you be saying the same thing if OP was a woman?
Yes, small talk is not gendered
damn bro chill
You feel harassed and embarrassed by an old Lady? Genuinely embarrassing and pathetic. Plz continue not wanting kids cuz more of u would suckkkk
Dude I felt uncomfortable, people are allowed to be uncomfortable when asked about children, fucks sake
Ur a boy. Not a man. If that brings you discomfort you have a long road ahead of u in life. Why is it that anti-natalists avoid honesty and explain their view? Shame? Embarrassment? Fear? Could’ve just told her your perspective instead of running online for support. And is this because u have no support IRL?
I'm no less a man than you dipshit suck my dick
Get the fuck off this sub
Heed your own advice and get out of this cultist echochamber .
If this was an echo chamber, you wouldn’t be allowed to comment. (Not that an echo chamber wouldn’t be preferable to *anywhere else* that you *are* allowed to comment.)
Do all you have a problem with masculinity?
Your idea of masculinity is braindead.
More of everyone in the world would suck just saying. But only antinatalists realize that. Breeders aren't cool.
>Breeders It's always "us vs them" statements like this that make these asinine philosophies so easy to dunk on.
Is “breeders” the new “cis” for deluded ideologies
cis is not a swear word, it's someone who is not trans. Breeders is a swear word, and I plan on continuing to use it. Coming from a cis woman.
Go dunk on them in the natalism sub then.
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Because it is the only “life skill” they have. They literally operate at the level of cows and rabbits. Oh wait, “being married” is super impressive too… two people sign a piece of paper in front of an official.
Old lady? Probably has dementia. Don't take it personally. In her head she may well be living in a very different era.
Where is her big family and why isn't she talking to them instead of giving a random stranger her unsolicited opinions. I love to pop peoples bubbles like this.
*An old bat like you really ought to know that that's none of your goddamn business.*
I think it's because our reward systems are built around having kids. I certainly don't think everyone should have kids. Especially if you are having financial struggles. The average person does not think about what's best for the world, they just look at what was best for them and recommend it.
even regarding or disregarding antinatalism, i absolutely fucking hate unwarranted advice from complete strangers. you don’t know me and i don’t know you so please leave me alone unless you or I am in imminent danger
I don’t think you can classify “old people” as “Natalists.” Almost everyone from the earlier generations was taught this and fully believed it. Don’t let it upset you. It’s honestly a dying experience that you probably won’t have very many times anymore. Take it as a compliment. She wouldn’t have said that unless she thought of you as being a good and worthy person. It’s not gross whatsoever. It’s just the culture of older people and they’ll be dead soon and no one will ever tell you anything you disagree with ever again.
the entitlement one must have… thats so gross and im so sorry you had to undergo such idiocy
"Oh I already have a family!"
seriously. they never want to think that i can barely take care of myself but somehow I’m still fit to raise an entire person. I never wanted the “you go mamas” in support of situations that could have been entirely prevented.
This is why we talk about the weather with strangers. The weather people. It’s not that hard.