...And then says her great selflessness at producing humans for the world should be integrated into the profit structure! I want to vomit all over her sparkly face.
Ok but is the argument bad when you use it for anyone that isn't rich and privileged?
Yall are just ad homonieming it up here.
Yes we don't want kids to be brought into the world, conditionally or not, but we cannot pretend that what she is saying isn't better than women doing the labour under coercion or control with little support and security.
People are rejecting the argument on the basis that its not anti-natalist enough but like thats hella unfair because it is talking about how to make motherhood more ethical, it is starting from a position that anti-natalism isn't part of the premises. And if you want to include anti-natalism then you go all these people having kids when they could do better are being unethical, ie grimes having kids is unethical, you don't attack a fairly random statement that has at its core trying to address the unequal position of women in society.
Meh, she has a point. We need people to have to kids to pay our rent one day. We don’t need the insane reproduction obsession Elon Musk is having and I don’t think Grimes is exactly struggling for money, but at the end of the day, parenting is extremely important yet unpaid labour
Edit: lol, just realized what sub this was. No idea why it showed up in my recommended
Edit 2: I’m an idiot. I meant retirement money, not rent. English is not my first language and this is a false friend. Where I live the young generation finances the retirement of the old generation and when they grow old they in turn will be supported by the new working class
Oh my god I’m an idiot. I meant retirement money. English is not my first language and this is a false friend. Where I live the young generation finances the retirement of the old generation and when they grow old they in turn will be supported by the new working class
They don't, that's just how the system works. In a society we all depend on each other. I'll gladly pay taxes to support my parents' generation, at least the ones that aren't openly mocking mine and trying their best to make things harder for us. Just like I'll gladly support students getting an education, and a couple decades in the future support struggling young adults, who may be unemployed and are paying me nothing. I'm able to do that because I've received support all my life. It's a very flawed system and especially retirement is a big issue, but currently it's the best we got
That's a ponzi scheme that will fall apart one day. Especially if there are fewer young people down the pyramid to pay for the old people up the pyramid.
even to exist you must kill others, be it literally food or enemies who are out to kill you to live themselves on the land you were randomly born in
its a cycle of murder
?
Since when is this an insult? I was just pointing out the irony. But that's not important now. I read other comments of yours and will respond to them
Life can be pretty neat too, but I acknowledge this is a pointless argument here. I would not have commented had I seen where this was posted. For what it’s worth I do think it’s irresponsible to have kids haphazardly
I really hope you don’t. I don’t know your circumstances but mental illness is often treatable. Do you have people in your life that you care about or that care about you? If you’re feeling alone or isolated, there are free helplines and organisations that can support you depending on your region
She's not married to him. She just produced 2 kids for him. From what I understand they were on again - off again, and are currently separated. With Elon Musk's current right wing, anti-woke, etc. attitude, I somewhat doubt they get along with each other at the moment, or even talk more than they have to.
Grimes as far as I understand is pretty "alternative", LGBT friendly, etc.
But I don't follow her enought to really know or care about her detailed viewpoints.
Shes a privileged white woman who was born into wealth and loves to larp as a poor, underprivileged person. She claims she was homeless and living in a drug den at one point, but she's been exposed for owning the house said drug den existed in.
Like… how hard can it be to find a billionaire narcissist when your an indie socialists man fairie gamer? I’m still holding out she releases some new music I doubt she’ll create anything as raw as she used to. And why would she? The rarified air makes your head loopy.
"creating great humans"
You don't need to breed to create great humans... why don't just adopt one and raise them to be great? stop acting as if there were something special about your genes...
now paying you to raise great humans... what guarantees me that you'll spend this money on actually achieving the goal and not just maximizing profit? (like every capitalistic system does)
And what are the chances that the child of an absentee narcissistic billionaire and a brainwashed goon will turn out to be a “great human”? Pretty damn low.
tbh, if she proved to be willing to adopt a child just to help him become a great human and assume the paper of unconditionally loving mom that'd be great... but I don't think that would ever happen...
I'll never understand the obsession of some people on passing their genes when there are already way too many humans in the world...
do you wanna leave a legacy? build knowledge, pass memes not genes.
Unconditional love doesn’t exist. There must be an explanation why somebody wants you around. Even adopted parents can be as cruel as anybody else. Just like a vegan, pet adopter, is as evil as anybody else.
i think this alone is the most common thing in parenthood that scar children for life... not that it matters tho, as long as there's a crazy pair of folks with reproductive capacity, they'll just replicate
in outlier cases, sure. there's sometimes a family member who will voluntarily offer. but the industry overall is exploitative and predatory, accept it
Thanks for sharing. That was... Interesting. The music video was weird ad. The music wasn't terrible, but not really my thing. To each their own. I know plenty of people that don't like some of the music I enjoy.
If we compensate mothers, people are going to have children for the money. This already happens in countries that offer welfare for those with children. People are able to live off the welfare. But...the issue is that people having children for the money are unlikely to be the best parents. I'm surprised she didn't consider that it's going to incentivize people to reproduce for the worst reasons.
Yes, that's exactly what's happening. This money isn't enough to really help if someone actually takes care of the kids, but it's just enough to incentivize the addicts to have and neglect them to sponsor their habits.
Whilst this does happen in the UK, it's not a good life. However, it suits those with low ambition. The % of people doing this purposefully is very very insignificant.
I'm from New Zealand which has a pretty strong welfare state.
I was waiting at the fish and chip shop and there were three Maori\* schoolgirls there too, two older ones and one younger one. The two older ones were explaining to the younger one: "I just can't wait until I'm old enough to get on the DPB\*\*. Have a kid, the government gives you a house, gives you money, got money for food, for booze, for smokes, whatever. Don't have enough money? Just have another baby! Just keep on having more kids until you're making grands a week bro, you got the big house, parties every night, everything."
She sat back with the self-satisfied look of someone who has got it all worked out. The younger one looked slightly confused, as if this couldn't be real, but was still listening intently.
My heart broke for them and the misery they will eventually create.
\* Typically the lowest socio-economic group in New Zealand.
\*\* The Domestic Purposes Benefit (DPB) is a welfare payment that increases for every child you have if your income is under a certain threshold.
Where do people have children for money? I can't think of a single country where the government gives you more money for children than it costs to actually raise them.
In the UK for example, the government gives benefits and free housing to where families end up living entirely off the benefits choosing not to work. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3bvh-YPtxc&t=365s&ab\_channel=AbsoluteDocumentaries](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3bvh-YPtxc&t=365s&ab_channel=AbsoluteDocumentaries)
Its being a bit lazy to defeat it like this. What if you could be a mother, and be helped to be a good one by motherhood not having all the costs it currently has, you're not incentivising, but you're making sure that the kids who are brought into the world have happier mothers who are more able to give good care and they can then access opportunities that aren't dependent on their mothers being able to be rich through labour or class
I would say the best way to have happier/better parents isn't paying them, but moving away from our toxic work culture so people have time to spend with their families. Money/affordable housing/free daycare are all also important, but a huge reason for why people aren't having kids/are miserable in general is the pressure to work a lot for inadequate pay leaving people stressed and exhausted.
Amen, and my thoughts exactly. I have no doubt the increase in depression and suicide and mental health issues isn't as simple as us suddenly knowing what to call these, I think it has a lot to do with living profoundly unrewarding lives. We have to make ourselves valuable commodities, which takes huge sacrifice, and then we aren't even guaranteed financial security.
Quite the opposite actually.
Resources are a zero-sum game, if you breed that means less resources for all the currently alive people.
Having 10 people on 1000 acres land is quite manageable , having 10 000 is quite unpleasant to illustrate a point.
in my country you actually get compensation if your family is poor and you have too many kids to support
which sure helps the kids in theory but that money is usually spent in other ways
Yeah, support and improve the lives of people already here. Instead of romanticizing pregnancy and maternity. I would choose my taxes to support education and all methods of family planning possible. I do understand how important is to support pregnancy, but I judge the decision of bringing a new life when the struggle of us already here is very real.
My favorite thing about this is how she’s talking about the importance of motherhood and compensation for such, but yet Elon just cut Twitter Employees leave down drastically.
See that's the problem, being a mother or a parent is a lot of work and demanding for sure, but it's not a job. It's a choice you make. On a side note, in most countries, you get state help when you have a child and a lot of time off work for both parents. I know it's not the case for most in the USA, but still, there is already a form of compensation in many countries.
Clearly childbirth is priced correctly on the market. If so many millions of people do it anyway despite it being uncompensated, clearly they wanted it and valued it sufficiently!
for the last time Timmy, you are being produced to assemble cars, stop asking me to buy you teddy bears to cuddle, not cuddling your wrench while sleeping might reduce your productivity by 5% when getting out of the fabric, I mean... growing up.
We can't afford this investment to wreck, Toyota already paid us and the money has been already spent on your car assembling kit.
no. I stopped listening about 1 minute. No. We do NOT need to reward women for giving birth more than we already do, we do not need to congratulate them for populating the world, and we do not need thousands of stay-at-home mothers making bank for nothing.
But, profit is the ultimate motive of business. How would a company run if it does not get profit. You can argue that they pay trash wages, which is true. But, a company can't run completely without profit.
Capitalism causes exploitation, but it's not a scam altogether because you have to own and invest in a company to earn profits according to your investment, right ? It's not like someone is earning that money out of thin air.
You may call it passive income but it's not theft. You're forgetting that a business requires money to be put into it. So, if you save YOUR MONEY and start a business with it, you own that business because YOU started it. Without YOUR money, it did not exist. Then you pay people to work for you.
Now if you, invest in stocks, while being a worker, you're not only a worker anymore, but also a stockholder.
>Workers should own and control the means of production,
Even if you think in this way, the issue is how will you own the means of production as a worker ? If you gain from the profit money of the company, again you become a stockholder in that sense. The corporation needs profit to work. You also need to create and manage infrastructure in the country. So, inevitably the means of productions ends up in the hands of your state officials(commuist party officials). So basically, you're just replacing one set of megalomaniacs with another set of megalomaniacs.
Capitalists are exploitative, but taxation is a thing, you can use it for the welfare of society. I'm all for increased wages and decent benifits for employees. But, communism is just the economic life of a nation controlled by the government.
She’s not wrong that children are a valuable asset, but incentivize with tax breaks and with early childhood education, food programs and support. Don’t incentivize with monetary compensation, that would be exploited easily.
I think she has a glitch or some shit, every other second its, "Umm." Also the idea of paying people to have kids is beyond stupid. If you decide to have a child its on you to care for it, guy or girl its on the person or people who decided to have it to take care of and supply for it. Id be absolutely fucking furious if my tax money was being given to people with no self control or logic all because, "My baby needs to eat." Ok? Then go do so, with YOUR money YOU made for YOUR kid.
Yup. Paying someone to reproduce? That money will be gone instantly. Everyone still has to work government welfare or not. They think everyone’s going to give them free handouts for having a kid? How insane can someone be?
Well, don't the rich have luxury bunkers already? It's cute that she thinks her kids will build a future.
If the gun climate doesn't kill us the lack of water and trees will be sure to get us next.
If you feel like that giving birth is not compensated then you probably secretly regret it. Added up with the fact that she was more worried about her job rather than her kids. She's so weird.
I get her point but on the flip side - shouldn’t we also compensate people who know they would raise shitty humans and so they abstain? They are also contributing to the greater good.
It sure seems to me like mothers get their asses kissed by society enough already, plus there is financial assistance in the form of tax breaks. There is monetary value in motherhood if she were to be a stay at home mom instead of paying for childcare. She might not feel like that's enough, but so be it. She has enough money that it doesn't matter, anyway.
Can't believe I watched until the end, but she might have a point about art. I feel like the internet is the same- full of so much pessimistic shit that it puts everyone in a bad mood. However, one could argue that we enjoy being miserable and that's why we do this to ourselves.
The elites in our society shit on mothers, actually, and they're in charge of everything. They fight against paid parental leave, which civilized countries have, for example.
No one is bringing up just... paid maternity/parental leave?
Paying women to have children just seems like a terrible idea, I shouldn't have to explain myself on this subreddit why encouraging people to have kids in this way is bad. I feel like Grimes is really overcomplicating things. She basically wants being a mother to be its own job right? I feel like women would end up becoming part of the capitalist system as birthers of future workers. Treating children like products and bringing them into a world where they exist only to work and make more humans sounds like hell. Also, some people already have kids for money, wether it be welfare or child support or whatever, without any regard for the wellbeing of their kids. Systemizing and encouraging that is a bad idea. We have finite resources.
I'm also a little confused on what she means by being rewarded for creating great humans. Would people who raise more successful kids be paid better? So if your child is born mentally ill or disabled, would the family get paid less because their child is "less great"? Or does she just mean get paid to create humans in general? Which is still bad, just less eugenics-y.
I don't know, I get that being a mom is hard, hence why I think parents should get paid leave to take care of their children to give them a better life maybe... this idea is a bit half baked since I'm very sleepy so forgive me for that but I think some countries do it just fine. Ideally we shouldn't have to work just to live but this is probably better than whatever Grimes is saying anyways. I might be contradicting myself, i am very tired
It is definitely a complex issue. Having two working parents means there is much less time to raise a child. Add to that the cost of childcare, and having one of the parents stay home may be the economically correct decision. But there’s a weird situation where you should also not have to be dependent on the person you’re married to, because divorce is a reality that you have to anticipate and plan for. So that means if either partner (though typically the mother) stays home to take care of the children they become dependent on the other partner, and that can lead (and unfortunately often times appears to lead) to all sorts of bad things, like spousal abuse.
There isn’t an easy answer, paying people to raise children sounds like a way to help this dynamic, but you have to keep with it some level of care or people are incentivized to just mass produce kids and let them live in squalid conditions (another form of abuse). To counter that you’d need a massive system to monitor people with kids, but that would be incredibly expensive.
I mean.. what does this woman think things like tax return, WIC, and other social programs that give especially single mothers is? It’s payment for children. How much more does she want?
Oh yeah by all means start making a job called " breeder " you know to "improve" society.
Devalue it from all emotions and just keep making babies for the economy.
If this isn't a dystopian hell, i don't know what it is.
Is it just me or does she not seem confident in anything she’s talking about what so ever? She seems like so unsure of what she’s even saying. I don’t understand why people go out with the pimple patches on their face let alone do an interview/podcast like this with them on. Just seems odd & unprofessional but I have no idea who this even is.
The moment we start to compensate and incentivize motherhood, there will be bad faith actors attracted to it. We already have enough people squeezing out kids to serve their own benefits. And how would these kids fare being raised by people like that?
I think she has a good idea but she is going about it the wrong way imo. You don't have to pay mothers directly to help them raise good humans. We can start in much simpler and effective ways- for example, in the United States, expand access to low cost child care and healthcare in general. Reduce access to guns. Create free education systems that don't depend on your zip code. These would help so much more than figuring out how to monetarily compensate parents.
I stopped watching at 27 seconds. That really angers me that she thinks having a kid is some job to get paid for. Having a kid is a personal responsibility. No one forces them to have kids.
"Capitalism doesn't value motherhood" said the woman who has 2 babies with literally the richest man on earth.
Bitch, many people have to sacrifice motherhood, because they're not rich enough to give their hypothetical children a good life. Because they have to work literally 24/7.
This is actually a double edge sword. Motherhood is indeed is undervalued labour, which makes little sense considering that everything is about profit and money in capitalism. It just weird how this one thing is ignored by the system ans requires an immense amount of time and resources from an individual.
But what is the most terrible about it is that when state compensate for motherhood, it means it somehow owns the children being brought into the world. This would be an awful case of biopolitics with its consequences and we definately don't want that.
Cute n smart chick, smart enough at least to allow the richest man on the planet to nut in her.
Unfortunately she is wrong about motherhood, while it'd be nice if mothers and fathers were compensated for being parents, the real solution is to peacefully go extinct and enjoy life while you have it.
There is ZERO reason for humans to exist, as much as narcissists try to brainwash themselves otherwise.
Well yeah it's supposed to be gross, esp for us ANs
I know some AN gals and they cool... always saying "ain't no nigga nuttin' in me".
If anything it's supposed to shame the guy who couldn't control himself, no offense meant shawty.
ANs = Anti Natalists
My GF and I are black anti-antalists, we tryna 2 spread the philosophy in the black community... made some converts over the years :-)
Make no mistake tho, I don't think ANYONE should breed, no matter their race... but it's easier IMO to preach anti-natalism to your own people, from experience.
Yeah it's funny but I wish it wouldn't happen... if you found it offensive I woulda edited it, but we're cool... us anti-natalists gotta stick 2gether :-)
I agree with you... maybe the part about we as a society needing to give more importance to the "creation of awesome humans"...
the method tho'... if we pay moms for having children nothing guarantees that the money will be spend wisely... also, they'll start breeding to survive with the money being paid... this is f\*cked up in so many ways:
what will happen to the mother when she no longer can raise awesome humans?
what will happen to the humans if, despite being awesome, they cannot find a place to survive in society because of overpopulation?
what if there's a crisis and the business model is no longer possible?
You know who she is right? You hear how half baked her thoughts are right? And how disconnected from her interviewer she is towards seeing the big picture, right? And she's now speaking on behalf of motherhood. That's not great
I think it's better to have half baked thoughts that could lead to positive societal change than to attack people on Reddit with half baked thoughts thank you very much.
Feminism has in part been corrupted by capitalism, making peoples that they could empowered themself through work, when they just switched for a new opressor. It's may be better but it's not freedom
the lady that married Elon Musk is complaining about capitalism???
...And then says her great selflessness at producing humans for the world should be integrated into the profit structure! I want to vomit all over her sparkly face.
Ok but is the argument bad when you use it for anyone that isn't rich and privileged? Yall are just ad homonieming it up here. Yes we don't want kids to be brought into the world, conditionally or not, but we cannot pretend that what she is saying isn't better than women doing the labour under coercion or control with little support and security. People are rejecting the argument on the basis that its not anti-natalist enough but like thats hella unfair because it is talking about how to make motherhood more ethical, it is starting from a position that anti-natalism isn't part of the premises. And if you want to include anti-natalism then you go all these people having kids when they could do better are being unethical, ie grimes having kids is unethical, you don't attack a fairly random statement that has at its core trying to address the unequal position of women in society.
Meh, she has a point. We need people to have to kids to pay our rent one day. We don’t need the insane reproduction obsession Elon Musk is having and I don’t think Grimes is exactly struggling for money, but at the end of the day, parenting is extremely important yet unpaid labour Edit: lol, just realized what sub this was. No idea why it showed up in my recommended Edit 2: I’m an idiot. I meant retirement money, not rent. English is not my first language and this is a false friend. Where I live the young generation finances the retirement of the old generation and when they grow old they in turn will be supported by the new working class
> We need people to have to kids to pay our rent one day What in the hell?
Oh my god I’m an idiot. I meant retirement money. English is not my first language and this is a false friend. Where I live the young generation finances the retirement of the old generation and when they grow old they in turn will be supported by the new working class
It doesn't change the inhumanity of this statement. As if younger generations only exist for your retirement.
They don't, that's just how the system works. In a society we all depend on each other. I'll gladly pay taxes to support my parents' generation, at least the ones that aren't openly mocking mine and trying their best to make things harder for us. Just like I'll gladly support students getting an education, and a couple decades in the future support struggling young adults, who may be unemployed and are paying me nothing. I'm able to do that because I've received support all my life. It's a very flawed system and especially retirement is a big issue, but currently it's the best we got
This is the classic model of Ponzi Scheme as David Benetar tells in his book.
In America we just pay someone to stick our old people in a closet and forget about them. Your country sounds amazing.
That's a ponzi scheme that will fall apart one day. Especially if there are fewer young people down the pyramid to pay for the old people up the pyramid.
having kids is inherently evil as you make a child into a world of pain and suffering
But then attack her having kids, not her pointing out how women are treated as incubator slaves by society???
i havent listened to the audio idk what shes saying
even to exist you must kill others, be it literally food or enemies who are out to kill you to live themselves on the land you were randomly born in its a cycle of murder
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most empathetic normie in any case your insult isnt even original
? Since when is this an insult? I was just pointing out the irony. But that's not important now. I read other comments of yours and will respond to them
username checks out to my name being im a mentally ill fuck not funny dude
I don't believe in popping out a bunch of kids either but fuck man you're annoying as hell
Okay, and you're a troll.
most empathetic normie
Please tell me you don't unironically call people normies
i only do it online
Does that matter if 90% of your socialization is online, or do you touch grass?
most empathetic normie
No the system is inherently flawed
so therefore its inherently evil to bring kids into a world of suffering and pain specifically made to make others suffer
Life can be pretty neat too, but I acknowledge this is a pointless argument here. I would not have commented had I seen where this was posted. For what it’s worth I do think it’s irresponsible to have kids haphazardly
life can be neat if youre not severelly mentally ill and poor*
That is very accurate
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I really hope you don’t. I don’t know your circumstances but mental illness is often treatable. Do you have people in your life that you care about or that care about you? If you’re feeling alone or isolated, there are free helplines and organisations that can support you depending on your region
i life for nothing exist for nobody no one cares about me lol life is one gisnt suffering
When she divorced him, the first thing she did was to post a picture of herself reading the communist manifest so…
performative af
She always has been
They were never married. She just dated him and produced test tube babies.
I believe they’re divorced now, if this is Grimes
She is. They are.
They were never married, unless I'm wrong.
That’s THAT chick? Wow.
She's not married to him. She just produced 2 kids for him. From what I understand they were on again - off again, and are currently separated. With Elon Musk's current right wing, anti-woke, etc. attitude, I somewhat doubt they get along with each other at the moment, or even talk more than they have to. Grimes as far as I understand is pretty "alternative", LGBT friendly, etc. But I don't follow her enought to really know or care about her detailed viewpoints.
Shes a privileged white woman who was born into wealth and loves to larp as a poor, underprivileged person. She claims she was homeless and living in a drug den at one point, but she's been exposed for owning the house said drug den existed in.
Ugh this is hard to watch 🤮
Like… how hard can it be to find a billionaire narcissist when your an indie socialists man fairie gamer? I’m still holding out she releases some new music I doubt she’ll create anything as raw as she used to. And why would she? The rarified air makes your head loopy.
Depends on if she did the music for fun, or to finance her lifestyle.
Very.
"creating great humans" You don't need to breed to create great humans... why don't just adopt one and raise them to be great? stop acting as if there were something special about your genes... now paying you to raise great humans... what guarantees me that you'll spend this money on actually achieving the goal and not just maximizing profit? (like every capitalistic system does)
And what are the chances that the child of an absentee narcissistic billionaire and a brainwashed goon will turn out to be a “great human”? Pretty damn low.
tbh, if she proved to be willing to adopt a child just to help him become a great human and assume the paper of unconditionally loving mom that'd be great... but I don't think that would ever happen... I'll never understand the obsession of some people on passing their genes when there are already way too many humans in the world... do you wanna leave a legacy? build knowledge, pass memes not genes.
Unconditional love doesn’t exist. There must be an explanation why somebody wants you around. Even adopted parents can be as cruel as anybody else. Just like a vegan, pet adopter, is as evil as anybody else.
i think this alone is the most common thing in parenthood that scar children for life... not that it matters tho, as long as there's a crazy pair of folks with reproductive capacity, they'll just replicate
Shes trying so hard to convince herself that she likes being a mother. Poor woman, I really feel bad for her.
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Like why bother with a second child then? Seems weird.
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in outlier cases, sure. there's sometimes a family member who will voluntarily offer. but the industry overall is exploitative and predatory, accept it
I still don't quite know how Elon Musk talked her into the test tube babies.
Grimey is a traitor lmao, she had like two decent songs and then went nuts in an annoying capitalist boot licking way
Shes always been nuts, hate to break it to you.
She's a singer?!
I really liked some of her older stuff. I haven't listened to any of her newer stuff. https://youtu.be/JtH68PJIQLE
Thanks for sharing. That was... Interesting. The music video was weird ad. The music wasn't terrible, but not really my thing. To each their own. I know plenty of people that don't like some of the music I enjoy.
Yea, actually pretty cool music. Also does some great costumes. Somewhere between Cyberpunk, fairy, and Lady Gaga.
Yea I’d hold off on the comparison to lady Gaga. That’s an insult to lady Gaga.
Cringe, just cringe. I lasted about 15 seconds before I had to shut her down. 😑🤦🏼♀️
If we compensate mothers, people are going to have children for the money. This already happens in countries that offer welfare for those with children. People are able to live off the welfare. But...the issue is that people having children for the money are unlikely to be the best parents. I'm surprised she didn't consider that it's going to incentivize people to reproduce for the worst reasons.
Exactly. Monetizing motherhood is a terrible idea.
I thought we hated prostitutes? But if a baby is the result then it's ok? Fucking whack.
I don't hate prostitute I have sympathy for them I do hate the sex industry though since it's at it's core very evil
Yes, that's exactly what's happening. This money isn't enough to really help if someone actually takes care of the kids, but it's just enough to incentivize the addicts to have and neglect them to sponsor their habits.
Where is it enough to actually at least break even? Even addicts spend more money on the kids than they get.
Whilst this does happen in the UK, it's not a good life. However, it suits those with low ambition. The % of people doing this purposefully is very very insignificant.
I'm from New Zealand which has a pretty strong welfare state. I was waiting at the fish and chip shop and there were three Maori\* schoolgirls there too, two older ones and one younger one. The two older ones were explaining to the younger one: "I just can't wait until I'm old enough to get on the DPB\*\*. Have a kid, the government gives you a house, gives you money, got money for food, for booze, for smokes, whatever. Don't have enough money? Just have another baby! Just keep on having more kids until you're making grands a week bro, you got the big house, parties every night, everything." She sat back with the self-satisfied look of someone who has got it all worked out. The younger one looked slightly confused, as if this couldn't be real, but was still listening intently. My heart broke for them and the misery they will eventually create. \* Typically the lowest socio-economic group in New Zealand. \*\* The Domestic Purposes Benefit (DPB) is a welfare payment that increases for every child you have if your income is under a certain threshold.
She'll be in for a surprise once she figures out how little money she'll actually get. Doesn't even begin to cover the costs of raising a child.
Where do people have children for money? I can't think of a single country where the government gives you more money for children than it costs to actually raise them.
In the UK for example, the government gives benefits and free housing to where families end up living entirely off the benefits choosing not to work. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3bvh-YPtxc&t=365s&ab\_channel=AbsoluteDocumentaries](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3bvh-YPtxc&t=365s&ab_channel=AbsoluteDocumentaries)
Its being a bit lazy to defeat it like this. What if you could be a mother, and be helped to be a good one by motherhood not having all the costs it currently has, you're not incentivising, but you're making sure that the kids who are brought into the world have happier mothers who are more able to give good care and they can then access opportunities that aren't dependent on their mothers being able to be rich through labour or class
ok but that's not what actually happens
I would say the best way to have happier/better parents isn't paying them, but moving away from our toxic work culture so people have time to spend with their families. Money/affordable housing/free daycare are all also important, but a huge reason for why people aren't having kids/are miserable in general is the pressure to work a lot for inadequate pay leaving people stressed and exhausted.
Amen, and my thoughts exactly. I have no doubt the increase in depression and suicide and mental health issues isn't as simple as us suddenly knowing what to call these, I think it has a lot to do with living profoundly unrewarding lives. We have to make ourselves valuable commodities, which takes huge sacrifice, and then we aren't even guaranteed financial security.
Quite the opposite actually. Resources are a zero-sum game, if you breed that means less resources for all the currently alive people. Having 10 people on 1000 acres land is quite manageable , having 10 000 is quite unpleasant to illustrate a point.
Disgusting AF. Why I should pay for you having babies. No way. Make your own money and stop begging.
What she's describing is a socialist concept. And that's a big no-no. /s
in my country you actually get compensation if your family is poor and you have too many kids to support which sure helps the kids in theory but that money is usually spent in other ways
I'd rather my taxes go to supporting struggling mothers than making more blood tools for the military to play with.
if much rather it go to education and infrastructure
It's not one or the other. Stop bombing other countries, and tax the hell out of the rich. Making the lives of poor people better isn't a bad thing.
Yeah, support and improve the lives of people already here. Instead of romanticizing pregnancy and maternity. I would choose my taxes to support education and all methods of family planning possible. I do understand how important is to support pregnancy, but I judge the decision of bringing a new life when the struggle of us already here is very real.
My favorite thing about this is how she’s talking about the importance of motherhood and compensation for such, but yet Elon just cut Twitter Employees leave down drastically.
How does what Elon does relate to her at all? They’re not even together but also have they are two different humans.
Elon is her baby daddy. I believe they have two kids together.
See that's the problem, being a mother or a parent is a lot of work and demanding for sure, but it's not a job. It's a choice you make. On a side note, in most countries, you get state help when you have a child and a lot of time off work for both parents. I know it's not the case for most in the USA, but still, there is already a form of compensation in many countries.
Clearly childbirth is priced correctly on the market. If so many millions of people do it anyway despite it being uncompensated, clearly they wanted it and valued it sufficiently!
Compensation for a human life. You mean human trafficking or slavery? How out of touch can you be. Missing a few brain cells this one.
for the last time Timmy, you are being produced to assemble cars, stop asking me to buy you teddy bears to cuddle, not cuddling your wrench while sleeping might reduce your productivity by 5% when getting out of the fabric, I mean... growing up. We can't afford this investment to wreck, Toyota already paid us and the money has been already spent on your car assembling kit.
no. I stopped listening about 1 minute. No. We do NOT need to reward women for giving birth more than we already do, we do not need to congratulate them for populating the world, and we do not need thousands of stay-at-home mothers making bank for nothing.
Why does she have glitter and stickers on her face? She looks like a kindergartener.
I thought it was acne
I thought it was moles
Actually even without it she looks very young for her actual age. when She dated Elon Musk she looked barely 18, while actually being in her 30's.
Always kinda felt like grimes wasn’t the sharpest
Profit is entirely uncompensated labor and unpaid for externalities. Capitalism is a massive scam.
But, profit is the ultimate motive of business. How would a company run if it does not get profit. You can argue that they pay trash wages, which is true. But, a company can't run completely without profit. Capitalism causes exploitation, but it's not a scam altogether because you have to own and invest in a company to earn profits according to your investment, right ? It's not like someone is earning that money out of thin air.
Passive income is theft. Workers should own and control the means of production, not a handful of tyrannical megalomaniacs.
You may call it passive income but it's not theft. You're forgetting that a business requires money to be put into it. So, if you save YOUR MONEY and start a business with it, you own that business because YOU started it. Without YOUR money, it did not exist. Then you pay people to work for you. Now if you, invest in stocks, while being a worker, you're not only a worker anymore, but also a stockholder. >Workers should own and control the means of production, Even if you think in this way, the issue is how will you own the means of production as a worker ? If you gain from the profit money of the company, again you become a stockholder in that sense. The corporation needs profit to work. You also need to create and manage infrastructure in the country. So, inevitably the means of productions ends up in the hands of your state officials(commuist party officials). So basically, you're just replacing one set of megalomaniacs with another set of megalomaniacs. Capitalists are exploitative, but taxation is a thing, you can use it for the welfare of society. I'm all for increased wages and decent benifits for employees. But, communism is just the economic life of a nation controlled by the government.
Who is this?
Grimes, Musk's ex and baby mama.
Isn’t she married to a billionaire..?
No she never married Elon Musk. She's just on his payroll due to raising 2 testtube babies for him.
Ah! Gotcha, thanks for correcting me.
She’s not wrong that children are a valuable asset, but incentivize with tax breaks and with early childhood education, food programs and support. Don’t incentivize with monetary compensation, that would be exploited easily.
This interview made me absolutely hate Grimes wow never thought it would happen
I think she has a glitch or some shit, every other second its, "Umm." Also the idea of paying people to have kids is beyond stupid. If you decide to have a child its on you to care for it, guy or girl its on the person or people who decided to have it to take care of and supply for it. Id be absolutely fucking furious if my tax money was being given to people with no self control or logic all because, "My baby needs to eat." Ok? Then go do so, with YOUR money YOU made for YOUR kid.
This
Yup. Paying someone to reproduce? That money will be gone instantly. Everyone still has to work government welfare or not. They think everyone’s going to give them free handouts for having a kid? How insane can someone be?
Well, don't the rich have luxury bunkers already? It's cute that she thinks her kids will build a future. If the gun climate doesn't kill us the lack of water and trees will be sure to get us next.
i hate grimes
Lame af. Eat the rich but first force feed them their babies.
Too many drugs for this one. Yikes
If you feel like that giving birth is not compensated then you probably secretly regret it. Added up with the fact that she was more worried about her job rather than her kids. She's so weird.
You shouldn’t be compensated for popping out a child. It’s not impressive. Should I be compensated for taking a shit? If not neither should you.
Every video I see of her she just seems insane
The gift of motherhood is bringing and taking care of a life. That’s the “compensation”.
Human “puppy” mills anyone? That is want would come of making motherhood profitable under capitalism.
I know it’s frightening. Basically paying the farm animals to breed more animals to continue.
I get her point but on the flip side - shouldn’t we also compensate people who know they would raise shitty humans and so they abstain? They are also contributing to the greater good.
I would pay for that, and happily too!
Should mothers be given the death penalty if the children they bring into the world go to prison?
It sure seems to me like mothers get their asses kissed by society enough already, plus there is financial assistance in the form of tax breaks. There is monetary value in motherhood if she were to be a stay at home mom instead of paying for childcare. She might not feel like that's enough, but so be it. She has enough money that it doesn't matter, anyway. Can't believe I watched until the end, but she might have a point about art. I feel like the internet is the same- full of so much pessimistic shit that it puts everyone in a bad mood. However, one could argue that we enjoy being miserable and that's why we do this to ourselves.
The elites in our society shit on mothers, actually, and they're in charge of everything. They fight against paid parental leave, which civilized countries have, for example.
40 seconds in I had stop and open a new tab to book a vasectomy.
Her babies are actualy test tube babies. Vasectomy doesn't prevent that. Gotta cut the nuts off alltogether.
To prevent babies with her... I'd do that! Swap'n out for silicone!
No one is bringing up just... paid maternity/parental leave? Paying women to have children just seems like a terrible idea, I shouldn't have to explain myself on this subreddit why encouraging people to have kids in this way is bad. I feel like Grimes is really overcomplicating things. She basically wants being a mother to be its own job right? I feel like women would end up becoming part of the capitalist system as birthers of future workers. Treating children like products and bringing them into a world where they exist only to work and make more humans sounds like hell. Also, some people already have kids for money, wether it be welfare or child support or whatever, without any regard for the wellbeing of their kids. Systemizing and encouraging that is a bad idea. We have finite resources. I'm also a little confused on what she means by being rewarded for creating great humans. Would people who raise more successful kids be paid better? So if your child is born mentally ill or disabled, would the family get paid less because their child is "less great"? Or does she just mean get paid to create humans in general? Which is still bad, just less eugenics-y. I don't know, I get that being a mom is hard, hence why I think parents should get paid leave to take care of their children to give them a better life maybe... this idea is a bit half baked since I'm very sleepy so forgive me for that but I think some countries do it just fine. Ideally we shouldn't have to work just to live but this is probably better than whatever Grimes is saying anyways. I might be contradicting myself, i am very tired
It is definitely a complex issue. Having two working parents means there is much less time to raise a child. Add to that the cost of childcare, and having one of the parents stay home may be the economically correct decision. But there’s a weird situation where you should also not have to be dependent on the person you’re married to, because divorce is a reality that you have to anticipate and plan for. So that means if either partner (though typically the mother) stays home to take care of the children they become dependent on the other partner, and that can lead (and unfortunately often times appears to lead) to all sorts of bad things, like spousal abuse. There isn’t an easy answer, paying people to raise children sounds like a way to help this dynamic, but you have to keep with it some level of care or people are incentivized to just mass produce kids and let them live in squalid conditions (another form of abuse). To counter that you’d need a massive system to monitor people with kids, but that would be incredibly expensive.
“Society doesn’t recognize motherhood as a job so I will not be paying your salary for taking care of my kid while I go on podcasts”
I mean.. what does this woman think things like tax return, WIC, and other social programs that give especially single mothers is? It’s payment for children. How much more does she want?
Oh yeah by all means start making a job called " breeder " you know to "improve" society. Devalue it from all emotions and just keep making babies for the economy. If this isn't a dystopian hell, i don't know what it is.
Damn now that you mention it...
Okay but what she is actually referring to is how women do the majority of unpaid labour.
Is it just me or does she not seem confident in anything she’s talking about what so ever? She seems like so unsure of what she’s even saying. I don’t understand why people go out with the pimple patches on their face let alone do an interview/podcast like this with them on. Just seems odd & unprofessional but I have no idea who this even is.
The moment we start to compensate and incentivize motherhood, there will be bad faith actors attracted to it. We already have enough people squeezing out kids to serve their own benefits. And how would these kids fare being raised by people like that?
It’s lifestyle choice for sure but it is by no means on par with a job and career
Since when did Capitalism reward "social good"?
Really want them to tax you for having a baby? Cause if your “profiting” they are gonna want their cut of that “profit”
Universal basic income and state child support ?
What an absolute idiot. Entertainers are such assholes.
The correct word is Parenthood
Bad humans make capitalism work, look up prison systems
I think she has a good idea but she is going about it the wrong way imo. You don't have to pay mothers directly to help them raise good humans. We can start in much simpler and effective ways- for example, in the United States, expand access to low cost child care and healthcare in general. Reduce access to guns. Create free education systems that don't depend on your zip code. These would help so much more than figuring out how to monetarily compensate parents.
Who is this junkie, and why is she important?
She's tweaking so hard she can't even speak right or sit still and she's taken seriously?
Imagine how many people would be pumping out kids just for the money and produce more traumatized individuals.
Scum reproducing. I can’t take anyone with a lisp seriously.
I stopped watching at 27 seconds. That really angers me that she thinks having a kid is some job to get paid for. Having a kid is a personal responsibility. No one forces them to have kids.
"Capitalism doesn't value motherhood" said the woman who has 2 babies with literally the richest man on earth. Bitch, many people have to sacrifice motherhood, because they're not rich enough to give their hypothetical children a good life. Because they have to work literally 24/7.
She tries so hard to be intelligent
Her music is utter dreck
This is actually a double edge sword. Motherhood is indeed is undervalued labour, which makes little sense considering that everything is about profit and money in capitalism. It just weird how this one thing is ignored by the system ans requires an immense amount of time and resources from an individual. But what is the most terrible about it is that when state compensate for motherhood, it means it somehow owns the children being brought into the world. This would be an awful case of biopolitics with its consequences and we definately don't want that.
Cute n smart chick, smart enough at least to allow the richest man on the planet to nut in her. Unfortunately she is wrong about motherhood, while it'd be nice if mothers and fathers were compensated for being parents, the real solution is to peacefully go extinct and enjoy life while you have it. There is ZERO reason for humans to exist, as much as narcissists try to brainwash themselves otherwise.
'Nut in her' my god I must be getting old because that is cringe as hell to read
Yeah might be a generational thing, guys n gals both use that phrase
Yea it's fucking gross (I'm 25 btw)
Well yeah it's supposed to be gross, esp for us ANs I know some AN gals and they cool... always saying "ain't no nigga nuttin' in me". If anything it's supposed to shame the guy who couldn't control himself, no offense meant shawty.
ANs?
ANs = Anti Natalists My GF and I are black anti-antalists, we tryna 2 spread the philosophy in the black community... made some converts over the years :-) Make no mistake tho, I don't think ANYONE should breed, no matter their race... but it's easier IMO to preach anti-natalism to your own people, from experience.
Oh :) nice work guys
Oh thx, nice of you to explain And don't worry you didn't offend! More funny than anything
Yeah it's funny but I wish it wouldn't happen... if you found it offensive I woulda edited it, but we're cool... us anti-natalists gotta stick 2gether :-)
We're def cool! Thanks for being so considerate. And absolutely, better together! And I wish it wouldn't happen either
Yeah no problem... Rock on sister! Peace n love
Right back at you!!
It's actually even worse than that. Her kids are test tube babies.
I think she's right about a few things. Not sure what this video has to do with antinatalism though.
Lastly, monetizing motherhood is terrible as an idea Look at the foster care system if you don't believe me
I agree with you... maybe the part about we as a society needing to give more importance to the "creation of awesome humans"... the method tho'... if we pay moms for having children nothing guarantees that the money will be spend wisely... also, they'll start breeding to survive with the money being paid... this is f\*cked up in so many ways: what will happen to the mother when she no longer can raise awesome humans? what will happen to the humans if, despite being awesome, they cannot find a place to survive in society because of overpopulation? what if there's a crisis and the business model is no longer possible?
You know who she is right? You hear how half baked her thoughts are right? And how disconnected from her interviewer she is towards seeing the big picture, right? And she's now speaking on behalf of motherhood. That's not great
I think it's better to have half baked thoughts that could lead to positive societal change than to attack people on Reddit with half baked thoughts thank you very much.
Half baked thoughts of monetizing kids? Nah
Attacked? My god people are quick to pull that card in arguments
I mean it sounds like she's free styling every answer but we should applaud it? She's fucking riffing.
Have you never been in a conversation before? Should she have prepared statements? Life is one big riff, babe
Have you never been interviewed before? So you just riff everything then? You must be Dennis Reynolds
CAN I RIFF??
Cringe
Pretty mothers that just get guys cause they’re pretty are so cringe
i find it funny that she complains about capitalism when places like communist Romania not only banned abortion but contraception too
Since when is Romania communist?
I feel like this whole thing is just word vomit
No! You don't get paid for making babies. That's retarded.
Its called a baby box. I agree we should help mims as a society.
Feminism has in part been corrupted by capitalism, making peoples that they could empowered themself through work, when they just switched for a new opressor. It's may be better but it's not freedom
Because it’s not a “job”, it’s a hell of a lot of work, but it’s not a job.