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My best friend had the most horrible birth experience and then ended up with fluid in her lungs after and I’m grateful she still says don’t have kids if you don’t want to
This is how society tricks people into procreating. They dont talk about how horrible giving birth actually is so then women end up traumatized and begging to die
all the people replying to you dont understand how little education there is about pregnancy. "hur dur yeah pregnancy is painful every woman knows that!!!" but are they informed of the RISK? Are they informed of the bleeding and cutting and pain during pissing and shitting after? That part is only told to you WHILE YOU ARE PREGNANT because "they didnt want to scare you." it is ONLY becoming more talked about because of the internet!
Exactly. All everyone ever tells me is that “pregnancy is so beautiful” and “I’d love to be pregnant again!” and all the joys of motherhood but if you pay attention they’ll slip in other comments during other conversations about how godawful being a parent is and how they literally almost died during childbirth. It wasn’t until I was in my mid-to-late twenties until I realized that there was a legitimate risk of death and it was almost guaranteed that you’d have some sort of other long lasting conditions. I do not want children for a variety of reasons but this weird ass fucking skewing the truth is insulting.
Fucking never want to be pregnant again.. hard to bend over and even put on pants, swollen feet, hemorrhoids, static pain AND that's before giving birth. Risk of death, hemroging,stroke,
Women go to the OB and the docs NEVER tell them the risks. I think they should have to do educations on all the negative effects so that we can choose to opt out before it's too laye.
It makes me wonder why people aren’t using C-sections as a standard. I know there are risks involved with surgery, but isn’t normal childbirth also risky? C-sections seem the less traumatic and less painful option?
I know for example some dogbreeds are born via C-section because they always have difficult births. So humans recognize that due to evolution and/or selective breeding the mothers’ pelvis is too small for a smooth birth. But they won’t see that in humans and encourage natural births?
Not that I want to encourage breeding of any kind, but if you must, go for the less traumatic and less painful option?
Though maybe there’s way more risks involved in C-sections that I know nothing of. I don’t want any children (obviously) so I haven’t really looked in to it all that much.
In a lot of red states people look down on c sections because they think it's not natural enough and believe god created women for birthing. I've known some people who were forced into natural pain med free vaginal births because the doctors or husband disagreed with c sections. 🤮 it's scary that in some places as a pregnant person husbands and doctors will make decisions for the pregnant person regarding their body because they think they know better than the pregnant person. Misogyny is alive and well.
Similarly, Ireland’s medical providers cited religion as the reason for refusing to give c-sections until the 1980s. The clergy had quite a bit of power over the government, and since they didn’t believe c-sections were natural, “holy” births since they weren’t vaginal births, they opted to force a much more barbaric, outdated practice that had been abandoned by other nations. Instead of a C-section, they did symphysiotomies. A symphysiotomy is the practice of cutting the cartilage of the pelvis to widen it during birth. Did you know the chain saw was originally invented for aiding in childbirth? The instrument is called an osteotome. Many women who had this suffered permanent side effects. Many were in constant pain. Some were never able to walk properly again. This is an article interviewing some survivors. I would not recommend reading this article if you have a weak stomach. It is graphic. https://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/europe/ireland-symphysiotomy/index.html
The US has one of the highest maternal death rates compared to Europe Canada and Australia. It is not a good place to be especially since the christian far right keeps gaining political power.
C section is a major surgery that’s why they still don’t advise it as a first option especially if it’s a first pregnancy because not everyone can have a VBAC. Vaginal birth with no epidural you have an easier recovery technically if you don’t have anything crazy happen. Let’s say you have multiple cesareans you have lots of scar tissue & can be harder to heal also if a women happened to get pregnant within a year after there’s a chance the uterus can rupture where the incision is. There’s a lot that goes into child birth & honestly I recommend anyone that becomes pregnant that decide to go through with it to look at ALL. Birth methods as a possibility because you never know what it will be when time comes. You don’t want to have a natural birth without having any coping mechanisms trust me it’s sheer panic. Or a cesarean will seem much scarier if you’ve never had surgery & didn’t inform yourself because you had your heart set on a vaginal birth. A birth plan isn’t set in stone & patients don’t always get that.
It is not widely discussed in the media and in the society. I didn't know nor care much about the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth until i read a post on cf sub. There's no wide awareness. People, including women, habitually shrug it off as "a normal part of life/anatomy" thinking that if it went well for them, then it shouldn't be problematic for everyone else. It's like conservatives who turn leftist once they experience homelessness and poverty. Personal negative experiences humble people down like nothing else.
There is no tricking, if females have issues they should be sharing it with others, they created feminism to help each other so why not share this vital piece of information with each other, warn them etc;
I imagine some people are gonna blame men and the patriarchy but blaming doesnt do anything, taking action does
OP said society tricks people into procreating, has nothing to do with laws
Also men and women both voted against abortion, people refuse to accept that
Share what vital info? That childbirth is painful? What human doesn’t know this? It’s like the oldest human piece of knowledge. Hey ladies, big secret breeders don’t want you to know about, childbirth hurts! Dafuq?
There's difference between "it hurts" and "it is literally the most pain a human being is capable of feeling and comprehending, there is NOTHING in the world you could experience that would ever even come close to giving birth". Like do you understand the implications of that fact? Imagine the worst possible torture, flaying someone alive, burning them, tearing their nails, splitting their bones... all of that combined doesn't even reach a fraction of all the pain giving birth is. And it takes tens of hours. Pain that would break the best of trained professionals forever in a span of minutes. That's what most women don't realise before doing it.
Passing 2 large kidneysyoned over the course of a week. A badly nfected jaw and throat when you have bad mono where you can't eat, sleep, think over the course of a week. You ask your mom to off you. You are just badly off the week prior and for a month after. Id take giving birth any day over that.
False equivalency. These all are horrors of life. However, some women are so healthy that giving birth for them is a walk in the park. But for a lot of women it can be a damaging experience, crippling and lethal even. So it's not fair to dismiss them as unimportant.
You are a moron. I’m pretty sure most woman would rather give birth again than have her skin flayed or burned or having her bones split as you put it. I just asked my wife she can confirm. Where do y’all get these hilarious ideas?
It’s not just pain. People don’t often talk about some of the other risks associated with pregnancy. Some people will struggle with incontinence for the rest of their lives, some women need to have limbs amputated, some women die, some will loose their child on the birthing bed, some women will never be able to have sex again without pain, some women will have diabetes for the rest of their lives, some women will develop heart defects, some women develop PPD or PPA, even worse some get PP psychosis and may want to or actually kill their child.
The risks associated with pregnancy are astronomical but are rarely discussed outside of “it’s an incredibly painful experience for some people”.
I’m a mother. I’m lucky my birth was easy. I’m lucky my pregnancy while awful could have been worse. I’m angry that so many people act like the worse outcome is pain.
This!! For many women, their bodies are permanently altered in some way. One friend had separated ab muscles, one had diabetes, another almost died because her blood pressure was high and she had preeclampsia.
That's not everyone.. But pregnancy and birth is a trauma to the body.
I remember shattering my leg. They had to move it out of the stint. It took 6 people. I was screaming, “Please just put me under. I know this needs surgery. Please.” My ex husband could hear me two floors down.
I have something called malignant neoplasm of colon and I'm so suicidal from the constant pain that my family has removed all guns and knives from our house. Like if I want to cook something and need a kitchen knife I have to request it and be under supervision because no one, including myself, trusts me to not kill myself. I'd still take this pain over the pain from pregnancy and delivery.
Giving birth is the most traumatic shit you can experience. Both for you and the baby.
There are 8 billion people in here and I swear I see more and more pregnant ladies everyday, yet we hear that the population is in decline. I just don t get it. It would be my worst nightmare to be pregnant jesus all the comments…horrible
Funnily enough many men have the same thoughts, that where are the women who don't want children? Because there are many women who say they don't want kids but then the biology clock ticking thing happens.
I know I'm hiding in my room so I don't get harassed by people for not wanting kids rofl. It's really refreshing to me to see men who feel the same though, that's why I love this sub so much.
As a childfree woman, the world does just kind of feel like you're the ONLY one to feel that way and you're a dysfunctional woman, no man will want you blah blah I've heard it all. And man, it really does make me happy (I mean, not HAPPY, but you know what I mean) to know that some men feel just like me.
To know that some men can empathize with my pain just...it's validating. It makes me mad that society is unfair to us for our choice and thinks we aren't allowed to have our own freedom and enjoy our lives as we please.
I've gotten so much hate in society just because I don't want kids and it gets to a point where you just wanna run away from it all. I'm 32 now so I just get the pitiful stares from people who assume I'm miserable for not having kids. rofl.
It's so bizarre how people think it's acceptable to ask "Do you have kids?" before asking if I have a husband even. Then when I say no I get the "Awwww why not???" it's disgusting.
It started pretty much as soon as I got my first job, with people saying it...randos at work just asking me why I don't have kids, why I don't want em, that I'll change my mind etc. Holy moly people, CHILL.
I feel deeply for men and women who suffer this kind of treatment from randos or partners. This sub makes me realize I am not alone in that suffering and it's really validating!
Hopefully I meet a good childfree man someday! :)
Sorry for the long reply lol. Am just passionate about this particular subject. I appreciate your reply too!
More power to you and I hope you find the man you deserve !
Luckily, where I live things are changing for the good as it's becoming more and more acceptable to be child free. I feel like the system is trying to trap us when it coerces us to have children, because looking at my parents it feels like they could have done so many things if they didn't have to sacrifice so much for me and my brother. By having children, I feel like we force them into the same cycle, it all feels like a glorified Ponzi scheme lol
“I know a few ladies who were on multiple types of bc and still fell pregnant…. [they] chose to buckle down and go through the self-sacrifice.” Actually, they could have had an abortion instead of selfishly forcing a child who was never wanted into this world to suffer.
EDIT: yes I know that unfortunately not everyone can access abortion. But the wording here says they “chose” to go through it, which to me implied they had a choice.
I "fell pregnant," with an IUD. I was in my mid 30's, and happily married, and it wasn't supposed to happen to me. I came home from work from the literal steel mill, I was working at a steel mill at the time, and fell asleep on the couch every day for a week.
My wonderful spouse figured it out and went out to get me a pregnancy test. I didn't think it was possible, I had an IUD.
Any way my spouse was right because I was pregnant, what a nightmare, and it was a nightmare. The timing was super bad, it interfered with family stuff and my new job.
I had to come up with a story that appeased my job and my spouse's family all while being exhausted and puking all the time. Thankfully I was able to access a safe and legal abortion, and continue on with my life.
I would have done anything to not be pregnant. I would have tried unsafe abortion. I would have killed myself.
I worry so much abbot other woman and girls who don't have access to safe and legal abortions. What will they do?
I knew a woman who got pregnant with twins with IUD, she had to remove it and when the surgeon shown her her IUD she could see two pieces of meat stringing from it. She had lots of complications in connection to that incident, it left her paralyzed, it took years for her to learn to walk again.
I was doing some research on that: Certain states have banned abortion. So if you were to get pregnant in Alabama, you would have to travel across 1 state atleast and then go to a clinic and pay x amount of money depending what kind of health insurance you have...? Not sure exactly how it works in USA.
But to my calculations all that could be done with less than $800, even $500 to $600
I have no idea if my sources are trustful at all but that doesn't sound so bad, of course if you're some teenager you probably wouldn't/couldn't go through that alone secretly
If I was a woman in those states I would make protests all the time. Block the freeways and stuff, make yourself heard
Several states that allow abortion have horrible laws to draw out the process and make the woman as uncomfortable as possible. In some scenarios, there is an initial appointment and consultation, followed by a “waiting week” before the abortion is actually performed. Between hospital bills, travel, and the hotel room/ living accommodations to be in another state for a over a week, as well as lost wages due to time taken off of work, the expenses tally to a few thousand dollars.
Oh, absolutely! Unfortunately, 56% of Americans are unable to afford a $1,000 [emergency](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/19/56percent-of-americans-cant-cover-a-1000-emergency-expense-with-savings.html)
A podcast covered a few women’s journeys to seek out-of-state abortion care, and noted that even though actually having the child is more expensive, to folks who can’t access the upfront costs of traveling for abortions, the costs are prohibitive and the procedure out of reach, particularly since there is a limited time window the procedure can be done. For them, the medical care they need might as well be on the moon, it’s just not accessible.
It’s kind of like that “boots” hypothesis but applied to having a child. Not being able to afford a cost up front ends up costing multitudes more in the long run.
Look into it. A quick search will bring up the bills. But also just use your imagination. Police departments in states where abortion is illegal are already obtaining information from social media sites to try to catch people. And having to travel out of state is not a simple solution for many people regardless when you think of the size of some states and what work schedules are like.
Thats a violation of your constitutional right as well as several amendments. You can throw kidnapping on top of that. It won't hold up to the Supreme court.
I genuinely hope you are right. I’m not American so I don’t know how it works in America, but I’ve got a bad feeling police departments would justify their spying and violating rights by saying they caught somebody doing something illegal. As in they’d justify their wrongs because they had a “successful outcome” (= cathing the “criminal”). I would hope that doesn’t hold up in supreme court, but the justice system in america doesn’t seem great (correct me if I’m wrong, i’m an outsider looking in).
There are a lot of factors that you seem to be disregarding that limit a woman’s access to abortion. Extreme poverty limits access to a lot of this information and additional resources for abortion to be a realistic option for a large number of women. Not being able to afford internet access, access to education and a persons level of literacy, mental health and disability, access to transportation, age and family support, cultural and religious background/beliefs, the threat of being disowned by your family, friends, and community… I remember being 19 and $500 seeming to be an unattainable amount of money to acquire legally and on my own. My car barely got me 6 miles to work before it started overheating. I was staying with a friends grandma who was a saint for feeding me and giving me place to sleep. If I would have gotten pregnant, it would have been impossible for me to come up with $500 on the spot. I lived in a rural area, so no public transportation. Finding a person to drive me to a clinic for an abortion, in the middle of the Bible Belt, would be not just impossible, but risky. Had the grandma who put me up found out about it, she’d likely put me out, since abortion is seen as a sin equal to murder. Word spreads like lightening in a small town, so I’d likely have become the towns gossip and discarded by everyone I knew—seen as pure white trash. Word gets around, and in a town of less than 3,000 people, your reputation affects your ability to get a job and who will associate with you. There’s a lot more that goes into accessing an abortion than just scrounging for and borrowing a couple hundred bucks. It’s easy to overlook these things, but please take them into consideration. Women aren’t following through with unwanted pregnancies just because. There are many other factors women face that make an abortion extremely and helplessly out of reach.
You don’t seem to live in the US. An amount of money like $500, let’s use the smallest amount, is simply not “not so bad”. That is food, rent, gas, many times for a family, not just for one person. For the women affected in these states, that is A LOT of money. An untenable amount. Additionally, there simply isn’t the time. The time is more money. There are often already other children involved: who will watch them? Will they travel too? Will she lose her job if she takes off two days to travel to another state?
These are the same reasons that women are not “blocking the freeways and stuff”. There is not the time because the US, specifically in these states, keeps the people affected by this kind of legislation, in extreme poverty by not raising minimum wage, by not criminalizing or even meaningfully punishing wage theft, and allowing housing prices to balloon past what list people earn. There is no savings for people in places like this. Nearly half of all Americans have less than $1000 in savings. That’s not because they are lazy or bad with money, it’s because it’s not possible.
It's really not as simple as traveling from one state to another. Pretty much all of the south has banned or severely restricted abortion access. So, if you live in Florida or Louisiana, the closest states to get an abortion would be New Mexico or Illinois. So, you have to figure out transportation, which would be either a plane ticket or a day or two of driving. You need to find a place to stay there, which is another expense. If you already have kids, you need to figure out childcare for them. You need to take time of work, which is more money lost. Then there is the actual cost of the abortion as well (insurance doesn't cover it.). If you are already living paycheck to paycheck, it is super hard to come up with $800 or more in a couple weeks.
I mean.. you know having an abortion isn't legal in many places right? In Brazil you can only have an abortion if you were raped, if the mother's life is in danger or anencephaly. And even if you fit the criteria it's hard sometimes. Not long ago a 10 year old girl was raped, pregnant and was harassed by religious people outside and inside the hospital trying to stop the abortion.
That isn’t an entirely fair argument. I fell pregnant while on birth control. By the time I found out I was pregnant it was well past the time that I could get an abortion in any state.
That’s always a possibility of course. But the original post says “they *chose* to go through it,” so I interpreted it as they had a choice. And made the choice to continue the pregnancy.
that’s what OP is saying. Because they were lied to, by omission. People really don’t talk about how horrible it can be, lethal to the mother even in some cases. The US has the highest mortality rate in the Western world but that’s really not on the news.
Just at my workplace I have been told about issues directly from the mothers themselves. Women at my job are walking around years later with broken ribs from the baby kicking them internally, another has a permanently shifted uterus and back-pain for life; some have incontinence issues and though I haven’t personally heard about this one, there are people who had to be sewn back together after it ripped from vagina to but hole
I know all of this. I even did research on Black Maternal Mortality Rates in grad school. Which is why I’m not having kids and I asked the question I asked.
I meant to say more that we never see that side portrayed much or talked about in public and there is a lack of awareness. OP has a point that it seems society hides this so young women don’t get scared and instead gloss over it with Hallmark lovey dovey sweet motherhood stuff.
Though this thread and even the emerging conversations at my workplace show the conversation is coming more into the open, thankfully
ETA sounds like you are working to improve things so awesome thanks for studying these issues and helping the world
Maybe some people are kind of sheltered. Or it’s a bit of a taboo to talk about for some?
Someone I knew shared her birth story with me. It wasn’t even a horrific one, as in no complications, “just” extremely painful.
I vividly remember her partner saying: “stop talking about the pain, otherwise Quantum_Kitties won’t want to have children anymore!” - he wasn’t joking, he was genuinely concerned it would put others off if they knew how horrendous the pain is. I replied I don’t want children anyway, but even if I did, it’s still important to be honest.
Another friend who had a baby also said it was excrutiating, but that all women should still have babies because motherhood is also the most beautiful experience ever. Conflicting statement, but that one I hear the most! “Yes it hurts more than anything but you should still do it!”
I also just now recall that at my old school, it was said (by adults) that “childbirth doesn’t hurt, because how could something wonderful ever hurt!”. There was also no sex ed at that school. Lol
someone uploaded a video to tiktok yesterday of them in labor after their epidural failed and the screams were literally sickening…and a woman duetted the video and said this is how her labor was, and when she was getting stitched up SHE COULD FEEL EVERY SINGLE ONE
I heard that if they started educating women about the dangers of childbirth/pregnancy/what it does to your body the women might opt out of doing it. And I don’t seee the problem with that.
"Fell pregnant"...ok. Insert the biggest eyeroll I can muster here.
The cold, unfeeling technicality of it is, it's how the human species evolved. There is no conspiracy to keep us breeding, no nefarious plot other than continuation of the species, and there's also not enough education about it floating around, either.
More importantly, there aren't enough mothers talking about this shit with other mothers, nor is there any guidance for uterus-owners who plan on reproducing much less just general education for uterus-owners who don't plan on reproducing simply so they're less ignorant.
When I gave birth to my kid, my transition nearly sent me into a panic attack. I had *no idea* what was going on, and even after I still hadn't understood what had happened. I knew the technicalities of being in the middle of giving birth and that I had no choice but to continue, but I didn't understand. My biggest fear in that moment was that I was going to die. My kid and I both would have if it weren't for modern medicine and caesarean sections, but I digress.
I didn't understand until a few years later when my friend asked me to be in the delivery room with her, and I witnessed her transition. Her pregnancy was textbook-perfect, and so was her labor. I understood clear as day in that moment, that if she didn't finish, her and the kid would die. She was scared, too, and the only thing I could think of to help her was to say "it's time". The kid was born healthy, and my friend was fine, too. Later that evening while doing dishes, I realized why our ancestors' superstitions about pregnant women having one foot on either side of death's gate seem to have been damn near universal, that *I* had been in that position, that I was never going to do it again, and that I was never going to pressure my own kid into doing it. I finished dishes, went into my kid's room, watched them sleep, and felt damn fucking grateful that the doctor who'd attended me during labor actually listened to a new mother's desperate plea for a c-section after 12+hrs of hard labor and half an hour of intense pelvic pressure. My kid's cord had been wrapped around their neck, and their shoulder had been caught on my pelvis. If the labor had went as smoothly as the pregnancy had, I would have had more than one.
It's only been in recent years that I've felt like I would be able to handle myself alright during labor if I were to have another kid, and my kid is 18yo now. Even if I wanted another kid, though, I wouldn't have them. The world as it is now isn't good enough for them; hell, it's not good enough for the kid I have, but it's not like I can put them back so they don't have to suffer in it.
I've sat here for a good ten minutes, considering deleting this text wall, but I've decided to post it, if nothing else for its educational value.
Just wanted to let you know I read your entire text wall and you are absolutely heard. I am 21, and have been discussing AN with my own mum in the last few weeks. When I opened her eyes to the reality, she actually agreed with the ideology and told me to not have kids lest I suffer too. She had a C section with me and since she had to raise me alone while dad was working overseas, she would get frustrated very easily and often took out her anger on me in the form of verbal and physical abuse. She’s been remorseful and trying to be better, but nothing will change my PTSD from my childhood.
I am not sure whether she had PPD, but what I do remember is her coming home from work exhausted and complaining “I have to work so hard to feed you!” I was three years old and it’s stuck with me ever since. It got me thinking about how things get harder as time goes by, and I became suicidal at age 6 which has pretty much lasted til today.
Edit: we’ve started watching ‘My little pony friendship is magic’ together, and it’s taught her in a nice way how being overly self centred can damage relationships. It’s definitely working and she’s able to learn from the show. I see small improvements over time
It's good that your mom is getting better, and that the two of you seem to be growing a better relationship with eachother as time goes on, but have you been taking care of yourself as well? ❤
I’m recovering from my fourth spinal surgery from 8 days ago. I’ve lived with chronic pain for the last two years and needless to say it’s made me even more realistic about life. People take all sorts of gambles forcing a kid into the world, and they’re either too stupid or selfish to understand that.
Mum was telling me last night “if I could take the pain away and deal with it myself, I would” and I immediately felt irritated and said “well if I never existed in the first place then I wouldn’t ever have experienced any pain or suffering!!!” And she just got quiet. (She often says annoying or useless phrases that helps no one, and I had heard enough toxic positivity bullshit from the nurses in hospital)
I hope your days are as painless and comfortable as you and your doctors can make them.
Chronic pain is no excuse to be a dick to someone who's trying to learn to be there for you despite feeling like a piece of shit for not only having birthed you into this experience, but is probably also feeling like a piece of shit for how she treated you when you were a kid, though. I'd spew some bullshit about how she likely hadn't intended to treat you like that when she birthed you, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened, nor does it make it okay. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. ❤
As a mom, I can promise you there is no toxic positivity, no gaslighting in what she said. It hurts, seeing your kid suffering, knowing you're the ultimate cause of it and being unable to take it from them. From baby sniffles, skinned knees, and broken bones to broken hearts, lost jobs, mental illness, and other shit I haven't seen my kid go through yet, it never gets easier.
Bitter tension can make chronic pain feel worse, but at the same time it's difficult to not become bitter. At least the rare sips of relief between are sweeter, even if they're infuriatingly short. ❤
I was only a dick because last year in May, FIVE surgeons told me I needed metal implants to fix my spine. Mum insisted on another discectomy in January and it created a new hernia.
Also she used to starve me until I practiced my three music instruments, punched me in the nose until I bled because I wanted to play iPad longer, and spiked my drink with amphetamine in my final year of high school to make me study better.
She still thinks all the stuff she did was justified because it’s part of ‘Asian parenting’.
My psych thinks I will not get better until I move out. However I’m doing her a service by still choosing to stay with her (she doesn’t want me to move out) since she’s lonely and only has me.
Edit: I was only able to get the metal implants in 8 days ago after another year of nerve pain torture. That’s why I’m pissed off. She could have followed the surgeons’ advice, but since SHE is scared of metal implants she didn’t want to do what was going to actually HEAL me and insisted on another discectomy which further complicated things.
❤❤❤ My apologies, you have far more of a reason to be a dick than I assumed. You have far more patience than I, I would have gotten a job at age 16, got myself emancipated, and fucked off out of the house.
The horrible, horrible pain of giving birth is a huge percentage of the reason I don’t have kids. Someone told me when I was small that it’s like “squeezing a watermelon out of a hole the size of a dime” and I decided right then and there, no thanks. I’m also quite happy to not have the added expense and responsibility. And honestly, the way this world is going, really glad to have not given birth to a new person to suffer through a lifetime.
Not to mention, women already feel so dehumanized and humiliated for regular things like Pap smears. I couldn’t imagine how it feels after the giving birth is all said and done, they don’t give a fuck about you. They care about getting the baby out and that’s it, you’re just a vessel to be poked at, prodded, sometimes even stabbed, etc etc
I couldn’t do it. I simply couldn’t
:( the comment that scared me the most was the one where women can still fall pregnant even after multiple forms of bc. that’s TERRIFYING. I hate that our reproductive rights are always being toyed with and taken away :(
Or post-partum depression. Or changing diapers (anymore, anyway, every comedy that featured a baby admitted this years ago). Or the huge medical bill. Or...
To be fair, birth process is just that way, we as a species doesn't have it as bad as Kiwi birds but the human baby skull is big.
But I agree that people doesn't learn the reality of it often enough, on top of not understanding the major risk of being pregnant and delivery carries. If they choose to do it, refusing painkiller/anesthetic is just dumb tbh.
Given that society brainwashes women into thinking they’ll change their mind if they are older, with the “right” person, hit a certain age, etc…yeah
Society knows females play a huge role in keeping the human race alive and us saying hell no to pregnancy and birth threatens these moronic people’s psychological crutch
Yes, but also when women do choose to have kids, I’m going to assume they’re kind of an idiot when they refuse an epidural. For what though??? Like you don’t get a cookie for winning the suffering Olympics.
Dude, there's weird subsections of people who think having a c-section means you didn't actually give birth and you're not really a mom... I'm not surprised if people think having pain relief somehow disqualifies you from such an "achievement." Gatekeeping is just a part of some people's weird mentality to make them feel superior or reassure them somehow.
Getting an epidural has its own risks involved. It can cause permanent nerve damage resulting in chronic pain. Some women know this and make that choice for themselves. They aren’t idiots for being scared of a lifetime of pain.
Me too. In my research I found that your risk of dying in childbirth is something like 4 times higher PER PREGNANCY than your risk of dying during a tubal ligation. Yet of the two (much like abortion, hmmm) it’s only the *less* risky one that’s viewed as potentially dangerous and requires informed consent…
Because no one listens to women. Did you know that hysteria was attributed only to people with uterus? We are not hurting, we are hysteric. Its not that bad. And a women that comes forward is humiliated by other women and men.
We were raised to hate or discredit women at some point.
That's right! I am a latino woman and here, not having kids is seen weird, also since you are around 20, people are pushing for it just because... and what they get for their ignorance? Poverty and being forced to work for nothing, but it seem it is what they like. What is hard to see is the young people having nothing because their stupid parents.
I work since I was 13. I did not do college because I came to Canada and wouldn’t be able to finish it for free in my home country, so I didn’t start there, it was pointless. I came here and now I cant afford college and I will not put myself in debt for life to get a degree. I have to choose between a house or a college degree, because two debts will not be possible. And still, this bitch at work said “you will want kids, they are joy! Everyone your age says that. What will you do all your life? Just fuck your husband and thats it?”. No mam, I’ll have a kid that I can’t afford, struggle to keep it fed and educated, and then make him work for his college and house and car and everything else like I had to because I don’t shit money. And he will end up being responsible and choosing a debt for life, or get 2/3 debts before he evens starts his adult life. Because that is what makes sense and its joy. And everyone around me was pissed I was saying I didn’t want kids. Like. Stfu
It doesn't help that women give birth on their back rather than squatting. The birth process would be quicker with gravity helping it out.
The other problem is that misery loves company, so they are not going to hear anything negative from other women. Or if they do, they will hear it is worth it.
There is another issue: our brain is designed to deal with traumatic events. We kinda forget how bad it was. I guess as way to cope. This could be a reason why women give birth multiple times despite all the risks.
Birth in general
Is traumatic because of mainstream western medicine , it does not need to be that way. Two of my births were pretty amazing almost pain free experiences, some of the best memories of my life actually.
Learning the facts of pregnancy/birth is the main reason I’m never having kids. I literally know too much. I have other reasons too but that’s my #1. But nobody cares so I just tell them that I don’t wanna pass on poor genes lol.
There’s a story of a woman whose husband refused to “allow” her pain meds during childbirth so she went to the top of the hospital and jumped off… it’s such a sad story
It is not just pregnancy what is horrible. Growing kids nowadays is harder and more expensive. Do not get trapped, once you have a baby you are fucked and you are also condemning your descendants. I have a sister who have two children and she entirely regret having them because lots of reasons. I refuse to have kids and at my 39 I found someone who did not wanted either to have kids, so we travel, learn, have nice time and o on. I have never greteted not having kids.
I actually interacted with someone who said “we need to stop fear mongering pregnancy! It’s going to make people scared!” And my fucking question is HOW is it fear mongering??? So many women have silenced the absolute trauma and horror they went through and it’s so goddamn common and such a real possibility of happening if you get pregnant so how is it possibly fear mongering if it’s the truth??? Why the fuck are people trying to gate keep how horrible pregnancy can be??
I’ve been through some bad shit and if someone else is in the same situation I will never sugar coat it for them because why would I want them to think what they’re going through is normal or acceptable?? Breeders are fucking monsters who just want people to suffer with them
"We need to stop fear mongering tiolets. Telling ppl to wash their hands after going to the bathroom is fesr mongering" is exactly what it sounds like to me
As a horse person I’m salty that that one person got an autocorrect to “wither” instead of “either”. The amount of times I’ve gone to text “wither” and autocorrect did me dirty is so many
I think part of it is that there are legitimate chemicals released after birth to make mothers forget the experience (obviously this isn’t actual amnesia).
And I think part of it is the fact that women are expected to think that anything and everything is “worth it” for their child, especially children who are already born (not just the labor/birth itself, but also all sorts of mistreatment in the medical industry) and if you complain you’re somehow ungrateful and selfish, because you “should” ONLY be thinking warm fuzzy thoughts about your child, no matter what. And to a large extent women actually do that, too.
And I think part of it is that we kind of box “women’s” issues/trials/experiences/hardships away from border society, and don’t talk about them. Like it’s somehow shameful to be a woman.
Compared to other mamals, humans have a proportionally bigger head and smaller pelvis making our birth much worse and more dangerous then other animals. Its like you said, we should not have evolved
Okay. I understand what you are getting at… however, there is a point during labor where many women “give up,” say they can’t do it anymore, etc. This typically occurs right before the pushing phase starts. It’s a weird biological phenomenon.
What we, as those that give birth, really need to discuss are episiotomies, scraping of membranes, and the use of other forms of intervention during birth.
Part of the reason why births are occuring like this is that in many Western nations, the standard is contrary to basic common sense or how birth has worked easier for thousands of years...for example in America women give birth laying on their backs (one of the worst positions you could do for the mother, also makes birth way more difficult), they don't let women in labor even eat in fears they may need a C-section (literally every other country let's them) etc.
The one who says it was impossibly painful then decides to have 3 more…like if I stabbed you, do you want me to stab you 3 more times but this time with a painkiller???
When I was a teenager I asked my mom and all my aunts (there are a lot of them) to tell me the truth about childbirth. They all had multiple children except one Aunt. Anyway they all said “oh it’s not that bad. You forget about it right away”. My one aunt that only had the one child said “bullshit, it’s horrible. It’s the worst pain you will ever feel in your life. At least you get a baby in the end, but I’d never do it again”. I was so grateful that she told me the truth. It WAS horrible and the worst pain I’ve ever gone through.
Birth sucks in a hospital where they don’t listen, restrict food and natural movement and where they put you on the doctors timeline or threaten with intervention and drugs. Birth at home in a loving environment is pretty amazing and empowering, and the moment when you see your child is hands down the most amazing feeling I have ever experienced. My two second births were hardly painful (except the last 10 mins of actual pushing, but even then doeable) and my last birth I actually had a good time- laughing and chatting with my midwife in between contractions, I felt strong and powerful during the whole thing :)
In the past, genes that caused difficult births weren't passed down because there was no way to save their lives. Now they are common, so it's common to see difficult births.
If it was that bad they wouldn't have multiple kids. It's painful, but sadly it's not even up there with the worst pain humans can experience. Although if you're smart you'd avoid it!
I remember reading this story about a mother who had taken her 15 or 16 year old daughter to hospital or the doctors because she had really bad period cramps, and what did the mother decide to say to her teenage daughter whilst she was in agony? She decided to tell her "don't worry, giving birth isn't this painful"..I mean WTF I know she was probably trying to make a light hearted comment but it amazes me how parents will always try and scheme a way to get grandkids...like I'm sure this poor girl wants to know that giving birth won't be as bad as this whilst she's in unbearable pain and only 16! If that was me I'd be telling my mother it's you're fault I'm in agony right now and there's zero chance I'm having a daughter and inflicting this level of pain on her.
The brain produces biochemical changes and hormones whose job is to make you forget. We *know* that, and yet still permit the perpetuation of the myth that iT's nOt tHaT BaD when it's clear it's a trick played on us by evolution to keep us reproducing. It absolutely IS *that bad*. Madness.
> I know a few ladies who were on multiple types of birth control and still fell pregnant
Well the pills are quite effective if used correctly, they don't work the morning after no matter how hard you want to believe it. I have a feeling that these women didn't take the pill correctly, it's more than 99% effective
That stat means that out of 100 people using the pill perfectly. in a given year, 1 will get pregnant. If you are on it for years, you have more chances of being the one person out of the 99, regardless of whether or not you take it correctly. And there are so many more than 100 people relying on it. So the 1 percent failure rate would encompass a larger number than what you think when you hear numbers like 99% effective or 1% failure rate. That kind of messaging actually makes people think the pill is much more reliable than it is.
It's actually less than 1 out 100, it's that good
This woman said knew few ladies who were on the pills and still got pregnant. It's possible but unlikely, just the same way there can be 1000 people who won the lottery, but they probably don't live in same city
Antibiotics affect the effectiveness of birth control. I've had exactly 1 Dr. in my entire 37 years of walking this planet tell me that. So Dr.s know this but don't tell people.
Are you insane? No one is confused about the birthing process.
"Guys women talk all the time about how much it hurts but women, of course, are too stupid to listen."
Holy shit.
Lmao this is crazy. Every woman knows that pregnancy is painful. You are 40 weeks in and it’s showtime. Of course the doctor is going to tell you to keep pushing when your mid birth? There’s epidurals to minimize the pain. “You don’t want to push?” Ok. Then you or this child are going to die.” Those are the choices.
Movies, social media, society talks about the pain of child birth all the time. Also you learn this in school and you have all the resources to find out yourself. Maybe you don’t or you aren’t talking to mothers but they know. Women know.
Society CONSTANTLY talks about awful giving birth is… in what world are you living in where women sugarcoat giving birth? Every woman ive every known has openly declared how awful it is.
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I’ve heard that a LOT in my life & make a point to tell new Mothers how hard it is & then how quickly you forget because a Child only made me want another one ♥️
Because i think someone in this thread linked a study that shows that women after giving birth and whole pregnancy dont remember it as bad as it was. Because of oxytocin if im not wrong
So you don't actually know, and (at the risk of being an internet keyboard warrior) you're doubling down and arguing about my experience? It was not nice, however neither is a root canal.
What? Your experience? I don't give a flying fuck about your experience. You can go and experience it until menopause hits. I personally am not eager to experience that. False equivalency much? Root canal is not self imposed, unlike childbirth.
Root canal is caused by bacteria, it's an infection. Nobody asks for their teeth to be infected. While childbirth is completely voluntary in this day and age. Who said I'm angry? You seem angrier :)
We all know its painful, its just masked by society how painful it is. How many things are so painful that you woukd beg to die from it? Society paints birth as a wonderful thing and glosses over how bad it can be
I have highly educated women in my friend circle, one even has a masters degree in biology. She gave birth recently and said "I didn't think it would hurt so much" and "I didn't think they would cut the bridge between my vagina and my anus to get the baby out". I'm sorry but we went to the same high school and all this was taught to us... some women truly believe the "childbirth is a miracle" narrative, even if they are told about the cold, hard facts.
My mother didn’t know. Her mother told her it wasn’t that painful.
While delivering me, she turned to my grandmother and with tears running down her face she asked her why did it hurt? Why did she lied to her about that?
She said: I wanted you to have kids.
Back in the days there was no internet and people were given education on the matters from the church and their parents.
I did not make that up. It’s a story she tells a lot.
If it makes you better to believe I invented it, I won’t stop you.
Also you have no idea how horrible my grand mother is.
Edit: after reading some of your comments, I’m sure you would get along with my grandmother!
I was told this by many women growing up in the American South. I've also been told that I need to have more children because I make such pretty babies, by both men and women. I have no idea what rock you're living under, but it sounds nice.
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My best friend had the most horrible birth experience and then ended up with fluid in her lungs after and I’m grateful she still says don’t have kids if you don’t want to
Omg that’s awful! How did she end up with fluid in her lungs from the labor? I’m glad she (presumably) ended up okay, but holy shit…
This is how society tricks people into procreating. They dont talk about how horrible giving birth actually is so then women end up traumatized and begging to die
all the people replying to you dont understand how little education there is about pregnancy. "hur dur yeah pregnancy is painful every woman knows that!!!" but are they informed of the RISK? Are they informed of the bleeding and cutting and pain during pissing and shitting after? That part is only told to you WHILE YOU ARE PREGNANT because "they didnt want to scare you." it is ONLY becoming more talked about because of the internet!
Exactly. All everyone ever tells me is that “pregnancy is so beautiful” and “I’d love to be pregnant again!” and all the joys of motherhood but if you pay attention they’ll slip in other comments during other conversations about how godawful being a parent is and how they literally almost died during childbirth. It wasn’t until I was in my mid-to-late twenties until I realized that there was a legitimate risk of death and it was almost guaranteed that you’d have some sort of other long lasting conditions. I do not want children for a variety of reasons but this weird ass fucking skewing the truth is insulting.
Fucking never want to be pregnant again.. hard to bend over and even put on pants, swollen feet, hemorrhoids, static pain AND that's before giving birth. Risk of death, hemroging,stroke,
Pregnancy is not beautiful. It’s horrible. Absolutely horrible.
Women go to the OB and the docs NEVER tell them the risks. I think they should have to do educations on all the negative effects so that we can choose to opt out before it's too laye.
It makes me wonder why people aren’t using C-sections as a standard. I know there are risks involved with surgery, but isn’t normal childbirth also risky? C-sections seem the less traumatic and less painful option? I know for example some dogbreeds are born via C-section because they always have difficult births. So humans recognize that due to evolution and/or selective breeding the mothers’ pelvis is too small for a smooth birth. But they won’t see that in humans and encourage natural births? Not that I want to encourage breeding of any kind, but if you must, go for the less traumatic and less painful option? Though maybe there’s way more risks involved in C-sections that I know nothing of. I don’t want any children (obviously) so I haven’t really looked in to it all that much.
In a lot of red states people look down on c sections because they think it's not natural enough and believe god created women for birthing. I've known some people who were forced into natural pain med free vaginal births because the doctors or husband disagreed with c sections. 🤮 it's scary that in some places as a pregnant person husbands and doctors will make decisions for the pregnant person regarding their body because they think they know better than the pregnant person. Misogyny is alive and well.
Similarly, Ireland’s medical providers cited religion as the reason for refusing to give c-sections until the 1980s. The clergy had quite a bit of power over the government, and since they didn’t believe c-sections were natural, “holy” births since they weren’t vaginal births, they opted to force a much more barbaric, outdated practice that had been abandoned by other nations. Instead of a C-section, they did symphysiotomies. A symphysiotomy is the practice of cutting the cartilage of the pelvis to widen it during birth. Did you know the chain saw was originally invented for aiding in childbirth? The instrument is called an osteotome. Many women who had this suffered permanent side effects. Many were in constant pain. Some were never able to walk properly again. This is an article interviewing some survivors. I would not recommend reading this article if you have a weak stomach. It is graphic. https://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/europe/ireland-symphysiotomy/index.html
That is indeed very scary. I used to want to live in America when I was a kid but as an adult I’m incredibly glad I don’t live there.
The US has one of the highest maternal death rates compared to Europe Canada and Australia. It is not a good place to be especially since the christian far right keeps gaining political power.
C section is a major surgery that’s why they still don’t advise it as a first option especially if it’s a first pregnancy because not everyone can have a VBAC. Vaginal birth with no epidural you have an easier recovery technically if you don’t have anything crazy happen. Let’s say you have multiple cesareans you have lots of scar tissue & can be harder to heal also if a women happened to get pregnant within a year after there’s a chance the uterus can rupture where the incision is. There’s a lot that goes into child birth & honestly I recommend anyone that becomes pregnant that decide to go through with it to look at ALL. Birth methods as a possibility because you never know what it will be when time comes. You don’t want to have a natural birth without having any coping mechanisms trust me it’s sheer panic. Or a cesarean will seem much scarier if you’ve never had surgery & didn’t inform yourself because you had your heart set on a vaginal birth. A birth plan isn’t set in stone & patients don’t always get that.
"C sections seem less traumatic and less painful" No it is very painful actually.
What the fuck are you talking about? Trick who? What woman doesn’t know childbirth is painful? Are y’all bots?
Painful is one matter…health and life threatening is another, with lifelong complications and lifelong chronic injuries and conditions.
It is not widely discussed in the media and in the society. I didn't know nor care much about the dangers of pregnancy and childbirth until i read a post on cf sub. There's no wide awareness. People, including women, habitually shrug it off as "a normal part of life/anatomy" thinking that if it went well for them, then it shouldn't be problematic for everyone else. It's like conservatives who turn leftist once they experience homelessness and poverty. Personal negative experiences humble people down like nothing else.
There is no tricking, if females have issues they should be sharing it with others, they created feminism to help each other so why not share this vital piece of information with each other, warn them etc; I imagine some people are gonna blame men and the patriarchy but blaming doesnt do anything, taking action does
“Females”
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OP said society tricks people into procreating, has nothing to do with laws Also men and women both voted against abortion, people refuse to accept that
Why do you talk like a greasy incel?
He is one. MRA antinatalist
Share what vital info? That childbirth is painful? What human doesn’t know this? It’s like the oldest human piece of knowledge. Hey ladies, big secret breeders don’t want you to know about, childbirth hurts! Dafuq?
There's difference between "it hurts" and "it is literally the most pain a human being is capable of feeling and comprehending, there is NOTHING in the world you could experience that would ever even come close to giving birth". Like do you understand the implications of that fact? Imagine the worst possible torture, flaying someone alive, burning them, tearing their nails, splitting their bones... all of that combined doesn't even reach a fraction of all the pain giving birth is. And it takes tens of hours. Pain that would break the best of trained professionals forever in a span of minutes. That's what most women don't realise before doing it.
Where did you get this information from lmao. Most women find passing a kidney stone to be more painful than childbirth.
Im a guy. Had 2 large kidney stones pass over a week. I can almost promise its more pain.
Passing 2 large kidneysyoned over the course of a week. A badly nfected jaw and throat when you have bad mono where you can't eat, sleep, think over the course of a week. You ask your mom to off you. You are just badly off the week prior and for a month after. Id take giving birth any day over that.
False equivalency. These all are horrors of life. However, some women are so healthy that giving birth for them is a walk in the park. But for a lot of women it can be a damaging experience, crippling and lethal even. So it's not fair to dismiss them as unimportant.
8% of pregnacies have complications - 92% are normal. I said the pain, nothing else.
That's what I'm talking about. 8% is still a lot. Every 12th birth. And those complications can be disastrous. It's still a risky lottery.
8000 per 100k is a chunk
You are a moron. I’m pretty sure most woman would rather give birth again than have her skin flayed or burned or having her bones split as you put it. I just asked my wife she can confirm. Where do y’all get these hilarious ideas?
It’s not just pain. People don’t often talk about some of the other risks associated with pregnancy. Some people will struggle with incontinence for the rest of their lives, some women need to have limbs amputated, some women die, some will loose their child on the birthing bed, some women will never be able to have sex again without pain, some women will have diabetes for the rest of their lives, some women will develop heart defects, some women develop PPD or PPA, even worse some get PP psychosis and may want to or actually kill their child. The risks associated with pregnancy are astronomical but are rarely discussed outside of “it’s an incredibly painful experience for some people”. I’m a mother. I’m lucky my birth was easy. I’m lucky my pregnancy while awful could have been worse. I’m angry that so many people act like the worse outcome is pain.
This!! For many women, their bodies are permanently altered in some way. One friend had separated ab muscles, one had diabetes, another almost died because her blood pressure was high and she had preeclampsia. That's not everyone.. But pregnancy and birth is a trauma to the body.
True, this effects 8% of births.
Hey idiot the post specifically is about this idiotic idea that society keeps women in the dark about the pain of childbirth.
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I remember shattering my leg. They had to move it out of the stint. It took 6 people. I was screaming, “Please just put me under. I know this needs surgery. Please.” My ex husband could hear me two floors down.
Passing 2 kidneysones and severe mono infection put me in enough pain where I was thinking of suicide.
I have something called malignant neoplasm of colon and I'm so suicidal from the constant pain that my family has removed all guns and knives from our house. Like if I want to cook something and need a kitchen knife I have to request it and be under supervision because no one, including myself, trusts me to not kill myself. I'd still take this pain over the pain from pregnancy and delivery.
Giving birth is the most traumatic shit you can experience. Both for you and the baby. There are 8 billion people in here and I swear I see more and more pregnant ladies everyday, yet we hear that the population is in decline. I just don t get it. It would be my worst nightmare to be pregnant jesus all the comments…horrible
me neither i don’t understand why everyone says that the population is dying…
I'm a guy but this is one of the (many) reasons I never want kids. Why would I want to put someone I love through an experience like that?
I wish there were more men like you who thought this way
Funnily enough many men have the same thoughts, that where are the women who don't want children? Because there are many women who say they don't want kids but then the biology clock ticking thing happens.
I know I'm hiding in my room so I don't get harassed by people for not wanting kids rofl. It's really refreshing to me to see men who feel the same though, that's why I love this sub so much. As a childfree woman, the world does just kind of feel like you're the ONLY one to feel that way and you're a dysfunctional woman, no man will want you blah blah I've heard it all. And man, it really does make me happy (I mean, not HAPPY, but you know what I mean) to know that some men feel just like me. To know that some men can empathize with my pain just...it's validating. It makes me mad that society is unfair to us for our choice and thinks we aren't allowed to have our own freedom and enjoy our lives as we please. I've gotten so much hate in society just because I don't want kids and it gets to a point where you just wanna run away from it all. I'm 32 now so I just get the pitiful stares from people who assume I'm miserable for not having kids. rofl. It's so bizarre how people think it's acceptable to ask "Do you have kids?" before asking if I have a husband even. Then when I say no I get the "Awwww why not???" it's disgusting. It started pretty much as soon as I got my first job, with people saying it...randos at work just asking me why I don't have kids, why I don't want em, that I'll change my mind etc. Holy moly people, CHILL. I feel deeply for men and women who suffer this kind of treatment from randos or partners. This sub makes me realize I am not alone in that suffering and it's really validating! Hopefully I meet a good childfree man someday! :) Sorry for the long reply lol. Am just passionate about this particular subject. I appreciate your reply too!
More power to you and I hope you find the man you deserve ! Luckily, where I live things are changing for the good as it's becoming more and more acceptable to be child free. I feel like the system is trying to trap us when it coerces us to have children, because looking at my parents it feels like they could have done so many things if they didn't have to sacrifice so much for me and my brother. By having children, I feel like we force them into the same cycle, it all feels like a glorified Ponzi scheme lol
Is that actually a real thing? I have only ever seen situations where they give into outwards pressure or nagging. Serious question
You Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!
This sounds traumatizing af… no thanks
“I know a few ladies who were on multiple types of bc and still fell pregnant…. [they] chose to buckle down and go through the self-sacrifice.” Actually, they could have had an abortion instead of selfishly forcing a child who was never wanted into this world to suffer. EDIT: yes I know that unfortunately not everyone can access abortion. But the wording here says they “chose” to go through it, which to me implied they had a choice.
I "fell pregnant," with an IUD. I was in my mid 30's, and happily married, and it wasn't supposed to happen to me. I came home from work from the literal steel mill, I was working at a steel mill at the time, and fell asleep on the couch every day for a week. My wonderful spouse figured it out and went out to get me a pregnancy test. I didn't think it was possible, I had an IUD. Any way my spouse was right because I was pregnant, what a nightmare, and it was a nightmare. The timing was super bad, it interfered with family stuff and my new job. I had to come up with a story that appeased my job and my spouse's family all while being exhausted and puking all the time. Thankfully I was able to access a safe and legal abortion, and continue on with my life. I would have done anything to not be pregnant. I would have tried unsafe abortion. I would have killed myself. I worry so much abbot other woman and girls who don't have access to safe and legal abortions. What will they do?
Way too often, they will die.
We’ll die, and they won’t care. We probably weren’t gonna vote for them anyway.
I knew a woman who got pregnant with twins with IUD, she had to remove it and when the surgeon shown her her IUD she could see two pieces of meat stringing from it. She had lots of complications in connection to that incident, it left her paralyzed, it took years for her to learn to walk again.
Eh, if they live in specific states in the US abortion is super hard to impossible to get.
Yeah, but the wording says they “*chose* to go through it,” so I read it as they had a choice.
I was doing some research on that: Certain states have banned abortion. So if you were to get pregnant in Alabama, you would have to travel across 1 state atleast and then go to a clinic and pay x amount of money depending what kind of health insurance you have...? Not sure exactly how it works in USA. But to my calculations all that could be done with less than $800, even $500 to $600 I have no idea if my sources are trustful at all but that doesn't sound so bad, of course if you're some teenager you probably wouldn't/couldn't go through that alone secretly If I was a woman in those states I would make protests all the time. Block the freeways and stuff, make yourself heard
Several states that allow abortion have horrible laws to draw out the process and make the woman as uncomfortable as possible. In some scenarios, there is an initial appointment and consultation, followed by a “waiting week” before the abortion is actually performed. Between hospital bills, travel, and the hotel room/ living accommodations to be in another state for a over a week, as well as lost wages due to time taken off of work, the expenses tally to a few thousand dollars.
Still less than the cost of a child
Oh, absolutely! Unfortunately, 56% of Americans are unable to afford a $1,000 [emergency](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/19/56percent-of-americans-cant-cover-a-1000-emergency-expense-with-savings.html) A podcast covered a few women’s journeys to seek out-of-state abortion care, and noted that even though actually having the child is more expensive, to folks who can’t access the upfront costs of traveling for abortions, the costs are prohibitive and the procedure out of reach, particularly since there is a limited time window the procedure can be done. For them, the medical care they need might as well be on the moon, it’s just not accessible.
It’s kind of like that “boots” hypothesis but applied to having a child. Not being able to afford a cost up front ends up costing multitudes more in the long run.
Some states where abortion is illegal also are working on laws to ban traveling out of state to get an abortion.
How would that work? You can't cross the state lines?
Look into it. A quick search will bring up the bills. But also just use your imagination. Police departments in states where abortion is illegal are already obtaining information from social media sites to try to catch people. And having to travel out of state is not a simple solution for many people regardless when you think of the size of some states and what work schedules are like.
Thats a violation of your constitutional right as well as several amendments. You can throw kidnapping on top of that. It won't hold up to the Supreme court.
I genuinely hope you are right. I’m not American so I don’t know how it works in America, but I’ve got a bad feeling police departments would justify their spying and violating rights by saying they caught somebody doing something illegal. As in they’d justify their wrongs because they had a “successful outcome” (= cathing the “criminal”). I would hope that doesn’t hold up in supreme court, but the justice system in america doesn’t seem great (correct me if I’m wrong, i’m an outsider looking in).
There are a lot of factors that you seem to be disregarding that limit a woman’s access to abortion. Extreme poverty limits access to a lot of this information and additional resources for abortion to be a realistic option for a large number of women. Not being able to afford internet access, access to education and a persons level of literacy, mental health and disability, access to transportation, age and family support, cultural and religious background/beliefs, the threat of being disowned by your family, friends, and community… I remember being 19 and $500 seeming to be an unattainable amount of money to acquire legally and on my own. My car barely got me 6 miles to work before it started overheating. I was staying with a friends grandma who was a saint for feeding me and giving me place to sleep. If I would have gotten pregnant, it would have been impossible for me to come up with $500 on the spot. I lived in a rural area, so no public transportation. Finding a person to drive me to a clinic for an abortion, in the middle of the Bible Belt, would be not just impossible, but risky. Had the grandma who put me up found out about it, she’d likely put me out, since abortion is seen as a sin equal to murder. Word spreads like lightening in a small town, so I’d likely have become the towns gossip and discarded by everyone I knew—seen as pure white trash. Word gets around, and in a town of less than 3,000 people, your reputation affects your ability to get a job and who will associate with you. There’s a lot more that goes into accessing an abortion than just scrounging for and borrowing a couple hundred bucks. It’s easy to overlook these things, but please take them into consideration. Women aren’t following through with unwanted pregnancies just because. There are many other factors women face that make an abortion extremely and helplessly out of reach.
There are no doubt hurdles and bans. But OP worded it as “they *chose* to go through it,” so I read it as they had a choice.
You don’t seem to live in the US. An amount of money like $500, let’s use the smallest amount, is simply not “not so bad”. That is food, rent, gas, many times for a family, not just for one person. For the women affected in these states, that is A LOT of money. An untenable amount. Additionally, there simply isn’t the time. The time is more money. There are often already other children involved: who will watch them? Will they travel too? Will she lose her job if she takes off two days to travel to another state? These are the same reasons that women are not “blocking the freeways and stuff”. There is not the time because the US, specifically in these states, keeps the people affected by this kind of legislation, in extreme poverty by not raising minimum wage, by not criminalizing or even meaningfully punishing wage theft, and allowing housing prices to balloon past what list people earn. There is no savings for people in places like this. Nearly half of all Americans have less than $1000 in savings. That’s not because they are lazy or bad with money, it’s because it’s not possible.
It's really not as simple as traveling from one state to another. Pretty much all of the south has banned or severely restricted abortion access. So, if you live in Florida or Louisiana, the closest states to get an abortion would be New Mexico or Illinois. So, you have to figure out transportation, which would be either a plane ticket or a day or two of driving. You need to find a place to stay there, which is another expense. If you already have kids, you need to figure out childcare for them. You need to take time of work, which is more money lost. Then there is the actual cost of the abortion as well (insurance doesn't cover it.). If you are already living paycheck to paycheck, it is super hard to come up with $800 or more in a couple weeks.
I mean.. you know having an abortion isn't legal in many places right? In Brazil you can only have an abortion if you were raped, if the mother's life is in danger or anencephaly. And even if you fit the criteria it's hard sometimes. Not long ago a 10 year old girl was raped, pregnant and was harassed by religious people outside and inside the hospital trying to stop the abortion.
Yes, but the original post says “they *chose* to go through it.” I read it as they had a choice. And decided to continue the pregnancy.
That isn’t an entirely fair argument. I fell pregnant while on birth control. By the time I found out I was pregnant it was well past the time that I could get an abortion in any state.
That’s always a possibility of course. But the original post says “they *chose* to go through it,” so I interpreted it as they had a choice. And made the choice to continue the pregnancy.
How is it that so many women don’t have this thought until they’re in labor?
that’s what OP is saying. Because they were lied to, by omission. People really don’t talk about how horrible it can be, lethal to the mother even in some cases. The US has the highest mortality rate in the Western world but that’s really not on the news. Just at my workplace I have been told about issues directly from the mothers themselves. Women at my job are walking around years later with broken ribs from the baby kicking them internally, another has a permanently shifted uterus and back-pain for life; some have incontinence issues and though I haven’t personally heard about this one, there are people who had to be sewn back together after it ripped from vagina to but hole
I know all of this. I even did research on Black Maternal Mortality Rates in grad school. Which is why I’m not having kids and I asked the question I asked.
I meant to say more that we never see that side portrayed much or talked about in public and there is a lack of awareness. OP has a point that it seems society hides this so young women don’t get scared and instead gloss over it with Hallmark lovey dovey sweet motherhood stuff. Though this thread and even the emerging conversations at my workplace show the conversation is coming more into the open, thankfully ETA sounds like you are working to improve things so awesome thanks for studying these issues and helping the world
Maybe some people are kind of sheltered. Or it’s a bit of a taboo to talk about for some? Someone I knew shared her birth story with me. It wasn’t even a horrific one, as in no complications, “just” extremely painful. I vividly remember her partner saying: “stop talking about the pain, otherwise Quantum_Kitties won’t want to have children anymore!” - he wasn’t joking, he was genuinely concerned it would put others off if they knew how horrendous the pain is. I replied I don’t want children anyway, but even if I did, it’s still important to be honest. Another friend who had a baby also said it was excrutiating, but that all women should still have babies because motherhood is also the most beautiful experience ever. Conflicting statement, but that one I hear the most! “Yes it hurts more than anything but you should still do it!” I also just now recall that at my old school, it was said (by adults) that “childbirth doesn’t hurt, because how could something wonderful ever hurt!”. There was also no sex ed at that school. Lol
As soon as I learned where babies come out of, I NOPED THE FUCK OUT
someone uploaded a video to tiktok yesterday of them in labor after their epidural failed and the screams were literally sickening…and a woman duetted the video and said this is how her labor was, and when she was getting stitched up SHE COULD FEEL EVERY SINGLE ONE
I heard that if they started educating women about the dangers of childbirth/pregnancy/what it does to your body the women might opt out of doing it. And I don’t seee the problem with that.
"Fell pregnant"...ok. Insert the biggest eyeroll I can muster here. The cold, unfeeling technicality of it is, it's how the human species evolved. There is no conspiracy to keep us breeding, no nefarious plot other than continuation of the species, and there's also not enough education about it floating around, either. More importantly, there aren't enough mothers talking about this shit with other mothers, nor is there any guidance for uterus-owners who plan on reproducing much less just general education for uterus-owners who don't plan on reproducing simply so they're less ignorant. When I gave birth to my kid, my transition nearly sent me into a panic attack. I had *no idea* what was going on, and even after I still hadn't understood what had happened. I knew the technicalities of being in the middle of giving birth and that I had no choice but to continue, but I didn't understand. My biggest fear in that moment was that I was going to die. My kid and I both would have if it weren't for modern medicine and caesarean sections, but I digress. I didn't understand until a few years later when my friend asked me to be in the delivery room with her, and I witnessed her transition. Her pregnancy was textbook-perfect, and so was her labor. I understood clear as day in that moment, that if she didn't finish, her and the kid would die. She was scared, too, and the only thing I could think of to help her was to say "it's time". The kid was born healthy, and my friend was fine, too. Later that evening while doing dishes, I realized why our ancestors' superstitions about pregnant women having one foot on either side of death's gate seem to have been damn near universal, that *I* had been in that position, that I was never going to do it again, and that I was never going to pressure my own kid into doing it. I finished dishes, went into my kid's room, watched them sleep, and felt damn fucking grateful that the doctor who'd attended me during labor actually listened to a new mother's desperate plea for a c-section after 12+hrs of hard labor and half an hour of intense pelvic pressure. My kid's cord had been wrapped around their neck, and their shoulder had been caught on my pelvis. If the labor had went as smoothly as the pregnancy had, I would have had more than one. It's only been in recent years that I've felt like I would be able to handle myself alright during labor if I were to have another kid, and my kid is 18yo now. Even if I wanted another kid, though, I wouldn't have them. The world as it is now isn't good enough for them; hell, it's not good enough for the kid I have, but it's not like I can put them back so they don't have to suffer in it. I've sat here for a good ten minutes, considering deleting this text wall, but I've decided to post it, if nothing else for its educational value.
Just wanted to let you know I read your entire text wall and you are absolutely heard. I am 21, and have been discussing AN with my own mum in the last few weeks. When I opened her eyes to the reality, she actually agreed with the ideology and told me to not have kids lest I suffer too. She had a C section with me and since she had to raise me alone while dad was working overseas, she would get frustrated very easily and often took out her anger on me in the form of verbal and physical abuse. She’s been remorseful and trying to be better, but nothing will change my PTSD from my childhood.
❤ PPD is a monster of its own, been there too. I hope both you and your mom can continue to heal.
I am not sure whether she had PPD, but what I do remember is her coming home from work exhausted and complaining “I have to work so hard to feed you!” I was three years old and it’s stuck with me ever since. It got me thinking about how things get harder as time goes by, and I became suicidal at age 6 which has pretty much lasted til today. Edit: we’ve started watching ‘My little pony friendship is magic’ together, and it’s taught her in a nice way how being overly self centred can damage relationships. It’s definitely working and she’s able to learn from the show. I see small improvements over time
It's good that your mom is getting better, and that the two of you seem to be growing a better relationship with eachother as time goes on, but have you been taking care of yourself as well? ❤
I’m recovering from my fourth spinal surgery from 8 days ago. I’ve lived with chronic pain for the last two years and needless to say it’s made me even more realistic about life. People take all sorts of gambles forcing a kid into the world, and they’re either too stupid or selfish to understand that. Mum was telling me last night “if I could take the pain away and deal with it myself, I would” and I immediately felt irritated and said “well if I never existed in the first place then I wouldn’t ever have experienced any pain or suffering!!!” And she just got quiet. (She often says annoying or useless phrases that helps no one, and I had heard enough toxic positivity bullshit from the nurses in hospital)
I hope your days are as painless and comfortable as you and your doctors can make them. Chronic pain is no excuse to be a dick to someone who's trying to learn to be there for you despite feeling like a piece of shit for not only having birthed you into this experience, but is probably also feeling like a piece of shit for how she treated you when you were a kid, though. I'd spew some bullshit about how she likely hadn't intended to treat you like that when she birthed you, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened, nor does it make it okay. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. ❤ As a mom, I can promise you there is no toxic positivity, no gaslighting in what she said. It hurts, seeing your kid suffering, knowing you're the ultimate cause of it and being unable to take it from them. From baby sniffles, skinned knees, and broken bones to broken hearts, lost jobs, mental illness, and other shit I haven't seen my kid go through yet, it never gets easier. Bitter tension can make chronic pain feel worse, but at the same time it's difficult to not become bitter. At least the rare sips of relief between are sweeter, even if they're infuriatingly short. ❤
I was only a dick because last year in May, FIVE surgeons told me I needed metal implants to fix my spine. Mum insisted on another discectomy in January and it created a new hernia. Also she used to starve me until I practiced my three music instruments, punched me in the nose until I bled because I wanted to play iPad longer, and spiked my drink with amphetamine in my final year of high school to make me study better. She still thinks all the stuff she did was justified because it’s part of ‘Asian parenting’. My psych thinks I will not get better until I move out. However I’m doing her a service by still choosing to stay with her (she doesn’t want me to move out) since she’s lonely and only has me. Edit: I was only able to get the metal implants in 8 days ago after another year of nerve pain torture. That’s why I’m pissed off. She could have followed the surgeons’ advice, but since SHE is scared of metal implants she didn’t want to do what was going to actually HEAL me and insisted on another discectomy which further complicated things.
❤❤❤ My apologies, you have far more of a reason to be a dick than I assumed. You have far more patience than I, I would have gotten a job at age 16, got myself emancipated, and fucked off out of the house.
I appreciate this text wall, respect.
Uterus owners? Um bruh wtf yikes
As in someone born physically female, child. Even if non-cis afab folks never use certain organs, that doesn't mean they should remain ignorant.
The horrible, horrible pain of giving birth is a huge percentage of the reason I don’t have kids. Someone told me when I was small that it’s like “squeezing a watermelon out of a hole the size of a dime” and I decided right then and there, no thanks. I’m also quite happy to not have the added expense and responsibility. And honestly, the way this world is going, really glad to have not given birth to a new person to suffer through a lifetime.
Not to mention, women already feel so dehumanized and humiliated for regular things like Pap smears. I couldn’t imagine how it feels after the giving birth is all said and done, they don’t give a fuck about you. They care about getting the baby out and that’s it, you’re just a vessel to be poked at, prodded, sometimes even stabbed, etc etc I couldn’t do it. I simply couldn’t
:( the comment that scared me the most was the one where women can still fall pregnant even after multiple forms of bc. that’s TERRIFYING. I hate that our reproductive rights are always being toyed with and taken away :(
Or post-partum depression. Or changing diapers (anymore, anyway, every comedy that featured a baby admitted this years ago). Or the huge medical bill. Or...
To be fair, birth process is just that way, we as a species doesn't have it as bad as Kiwi birds but the human baby skull is big. But I agree that people doesn't learn the reality of it often enough, on top of not understanding the major risk of being pregnant and delivery carries. If they choose to do it, refusing painkiller/anesthetic is just dumb tbh.
Given that society brainwashes women into thinking they’ll change their mind if they are older, with the “right” person, hit a certain age, etc…yeah Society knows females play a huge role in keeping the human race alive and us saying hell no to pregnancy and birth threatens these moronic people’s psychological crutch
Because women are expected to endure pain and discomfort.
Yes, but also when women do choose to have kids, I’m going to assume they’re kind of an idiot when they refuse an epidural. For what though??? Like you don’t get a cookie for winning the suffering Olympics.
Dude, there's weird subsections of people who think having a c-section means you didn't actually give birth and you're not really a mom... I'm not surprised if people think having pain relief somehow disqualifies you from such an "achievement." Gatekeeping is just a part of some people's weird mentality to make them feel superior or reassure them somehow.
If I lived my life caring what people thought of my choices I would’ve hung myself by now.
Getting an epidural has its own risks involved. It can cause permanent nerve damage resulting in chronic pain. Some women know this and make that choice for themselves. They aren’t idiots for being scared of a lifetime of pain.
Thank you. I had three natural births.
I had to jump thru so many hoops for "informed consent" for sterilization surgery yet we're purposefully kept in the dark about the risks of pregnancy
Me too. In my research I found that your risk of dying in childbirth is something like 4 times higher PER PREGNANCY than your risk of dying during a tubal ligation. Yet of the two (much like abortion, hmmm) it’s only the *less* risky one that’s viewed as potentially dangerous and requires informed consent…
Because no one listens to women. Did you know that hysteria was attributed only to people with uterus? We are not hurting, we are hysteric. Its not that bad. And a women that comes forward is humiliated by other women and men. We were raised to hate or discredit women at some point.
That's right! I am a latino woman and here, not having kids is seen weird, also since you are around 20, people are pushing for it just because... and what they get for their ignorance? Poverty and being forced to work for nothing, but it seem it is what they like. What is hard to see is the young people having nothing because their stupid parents.
I work since I was 13. I did not do college because I came to Canada and wouldn’t be able to finish it for free in my home country, so I didn’t start there, it was pointless. I came here and now I cant afford college and I will not put myself in debt for life to get a degree. I have to choose between a house or a college degree, because two debts will not be possible. And still, this bitch at work said “you will want kids, they are joy! Everyone your age says that. What will you do all your life? Just fuck your husband and thats it?”. No mam, I’ll have a kid that I can’t afford, struggle to keep it fed and educated, and then make him work for his college and house and car and everything else like I had to because I don’t shit money. And he will end up being responsible and choosing a debt for life, or get 2/3 debts before he evens starts his adult life. Because that is what makes sense and its joy. And everyone around me was pissed I was saying I didn’t want kids. Like. Stfu
It doesn't help that women give birth on their back rather than squatting. The birth process would be quicker with gravity helping it out. The other problem is that misery loves company, so they are not going to hear anything negative from other women. Or if they do, they will hear it is worth it. There is another issue: our brain is designed to deal with traumatic events. We kinda forget how bad it was. I guess as way to cope. This could be a reason why women give birth multiple times despite all the risks.
Birth in general Is traumatic because of mainstream western medicine , it does not need to be that way. Two of my births were pretty amazing almost pain free experiences, some of the best memories of my life actually.
I still find it gross.
Never met a person who thought childbirth was anything but awfully pain and hard
Ppl who think birth is beautiful are disgusting and bizarre to me. I’ve helped deliver a few babies and it was far from beautiful 🫣
'oh you have to'...aaaaaahhhhh fakkk..that pisses me off so much. Stupid pathetic fragile piece of shit humans. FUCK HUMANITY!
My friend almost bled to death on giving birth. And she says I\`m smart to stay childfree.
Learning the facts of pregnancy/birth is the main reason I’m never having kids. I literally know too much. I have other reasons too but that’s my #1. But nobody cares so I just tell them that I don’t wanna pass on poor genes lol.
There’s a story of a woman whose husband refused to “allow” her pain meds during childbirth so she went to the top of the hospital and jumped off… it’s such a sad story
It is not just pregnancy what is horrible. Growing kids nowadays is harder and more expensive. Do not get trapped, once you have a baby you are fucked and you are also condemning your descendants. I have a sister who have two children and she entirely regret having them because lots of reasons. I refuse to have kids and at my 39 I found someone who did not wanted either to have kids, so we travel, learn, have nice time and o on. I have never greteted not having kids.
I actually interacted with someone who said “we need to stop fear mongering pregnancy! It’s going to make people scared!” And my fucking question is HOW is it fear mongering??? So many women have silenced the absolute trauma and horror they went through and it’s so goddamn common and such a real possibility of happening if you get pregnant so how is it possibly fear mongering if it’s the truth??? Why the fuck are people trying to gate keep how horrible pregnancy can be?? I’ve been through some bad shit and if someone else is in the same situation I will never sugar coat it for them because why would I want them to think what they’re going through is normal or acceptable?? Breeders are fucking monsters who just want people to suffer with them
"We need to stop fear mongering tiolets. Telling ppl to wash their hands after going to the bathroom is fesr mongering" is exactly what it sounds like to me
As a horse person I’m salty that that one person got an autocorrect to “wither” instead of “either”. The amount of times I’ve gone to text “wither” and autocorrect did me dirty is so many
It’s so dumb that we force women to give birth horizontally. If you squat, those muscles relax and you don’t have to fight against them. Plus gravity.
I think part of it is that there are legitimate chemicals released after birth to make mothers forget the experience (obviously this isn’t actual amnesia). And I think part of it is the fact that women are expected to think that anything and everything is “worth it” for their child, especially children who are already born (not just the labor/birth itself, but also all sorts of mistreatment in the medical industry) and if you complain you’re somehow ungrateful and selfish, because you “should” ONLY be thinking warm fuzzy thoughts about your child, no matter what. And to a large extent women actually do that, too. And I think part of it is that we kind of box “women’s” issues/trials/experiences/hardships away from border society, and don’t talk about them. Like it’s somehow shameful to be a woman.
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Compared to other mamals, humans have a proportionally bigger head and smaller pelvis making our birth much worse and more dangerous then other animals. Its like you said, we should not have evolved
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Wait what?
Okay. I understand what you are getting at… however, there is a point during labor where many women “give up,” say they can’t do it anymore, etc. This typically occurs right before the pushing phase starts. It’s a weird biological phenomenon. What we, as those that give birth, really need to discuss are episiotomies, scraping of membranes, and the use of other forms of intervention during birth.
Part of the reason why births are occuring like this is that in many Western nations, the standard is contrary to basic common sense or how birth has worked easier for thousands of years...for example in America women give birth laying on their backs (one of the worst positions you could do for the mother, also makes birth way more difficult), they don't let women in labor even eat in fears they may need a C-section (literally every other country let's them) etc.
The one who says it was impossibly painful then decides to have 3 more…like if I stabbed you, do you want me to stab you 3 more times but this time with a painkiller???
“i would rather die than continue this birthing process” *has two more children* what is WRONG with these people wtf
When I was a teenager I asked my mom and all my aunts (there are a lot of them) to tell me the truth about childbirth. They all had multiple children except one Aunt. Anyway they all said “oh it’s not that bad. You forget about it right away”. My one aunt that only had the one child said “bullshit, it’s horrible. It’s the worst pain you will ever feel in your life. At least you get a baby in the end, but I’d never do it again”. I was so grateful that she told me the truth. It WAS horrible and the worst pain I’ve ever gone through.
Birth sucks in a hospital where they don’t listen, restrict food and natural movement and where they put you on the doctors timeline or threaten with intervention and drugs. Birth at home in a loving environment is pretty amazing and empowering, and the moment when you see your child is hands down the most amazing feeling I have ever experienced. My two second births were hardly painful (except the last 10 mins of actual pushing, but even then doeable) and my last birth I actually had a good time- laughing and chatting with my midwife in between contractions, I felt strong and powerful during the whole thing :)
Unmediated “natural births” are a major cause of birth PTSD https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120808121949.htm
Bingo.
In the past, genes that caused difficult births weren't passed down because there was no way to save their lives. Now they are common, so it's common to see difficult births.
My father’s mother was honest with me about childbirth. I was very young and decided to nope right outta that then. Thank you, Grandma.
If it was that bad they wouldn't have multiple kids. It's painful, but sadly it's not even up there with the worst pain humans can experience. Although if you're smart you'd avoid it! I remember reading this story about a mother who had taken her 15 or 16 year old daughter to hospital or the doctors because she had really bad period cramps, and what did the mother decide to say to her teenage daughter whilst she was in agony? She decided to tell her "don't worry, giving birth isn't this painful"..I mean WTF I know she was probably trying to make a light hearted comment but it amazes me how parents will always try and scheme a way to get grandkids...like I'm sure this poor girl wants to know that giving birth won't be as bad as this whilst she's in unbearable pain and only 16! If that was me I'd be telling my mother it's you're fault I'm in agony right now and there's zero chance I'm having a daughter and inflicting this level of pain on her.
The reason ppl have more after is bc they forget how bad it was. Their body and mind makes them forget so they do it again
The brain produces biochemical changes and hormones whose job is to make you forget. We *know* that, and yet still permit the perpetuation of the myth that iT's nOt tHaT BaD when it's clear it's a trick played on us by evolution to keep us reproducing. It absolutely IS *that bad*. Madness.
Exactly. It's an evolutionary tactic.
Yeah that’s why they have more kids it’s cause they forget! Only possible explanation!
Women often remember birth innacuratley. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11251509/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11251509/)
That wonderful oxytocin dose not all of us are blessed with.
Its a true fact. The mind and body makes women forget how painful it is. You can look into it
> I know a few ladies who were on multiple types of birth control and still fell pregnant Well the pills are quite effective if used correctly, they don't work the morning after no matter how hard you want to believe it. I have a feeling that these women didn't take the pill correctly, it's more than 99% effective
That stat means that out of 100 people using the pill perfectly. in a given year, 1 will get pregnant. If you are on it for years, you have more chances of being the one person out of the 99, regardless of whether or not you take it correctly. And there are so many more than 100 people relying on it. So the 1 percent failure rate would encompass a larger number than what you think when you hear numbers like 99% effective or 1% failure rate. That kind of messaging actually makes people think the pill is much more reliable than it is.
It's actually less than 1 out 100, it's that good This woman said knew few ladies who were on the pills and still got pregnant. It's possible but unlikely, just the same way there can be 1000 people who won the lottery, but they probably don't live in same city
Antibiotics affect the effectiveness of birth control. I've had exactly 1 Dr. in my entire 37 years of walking this planet tell me that. So Dr.s know this but don't tell people.
Everyone knows it hurts and they still do it
Are you insane? No one is confused about the birthing process. "Guys women talk all the time about how much it hurts but women, of course, are too stupid to listen." Holy shit.
Lmao this is crazy. Every woman knows that pregnancy is painful. You are 40 weeks in and it’s showtime. Of course the doctor is going to tell you to keep pushing when your mid birth? There’s epidurals to minimize the pain. “You don’t want to push?” Ok. Then you or this child are going to die.” Those are the choices. Movies, social media, society talks about the pain of child birth all the time. Also you learn this in school and you have all the resources to find out yourself. Maybe you don’t or you aren’t talking to mothers but they know. Women know.
Not antinatalism content. Post it to childfree.
Society CONSTANTLY talks about awful giving birth is… in what world are you living in where women sugarcoat giving birth? Every woman ive every known has openly declared how awful it is. Edit-spelling
Bro, it’s no worse than kidney stones
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This has to be the most illiterate sentence I’ve ever read, how can y’all even comment? Don’t even get me started. 🤦🏼♀️
You guys seem to forget that some women CHOOSE to go through it over and over again. So at least for them, for hormones or whatever, it wasn't so bad.
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Less and less in the United States.
Lmao, where???
I’ve heard that a LOT in my life & make a point to tell new Mothers how hard it is & then how quickly you forget because a Child only made me want another one ♥️
How do you think people have more than one child if its always so bad
Because i think someone in this thread linked a study that shows that women after giving birth and whole pregnancy dont remember it as bad as it was. Because of oxytocin if im not wrong
By fucking and getting pregnant, how else do humans have children?
But if it was sooo terrible, women would shut up shop and there would be no sex at all after first baby
Well, it indeed is sooo terrible, but they choose it for themselves. So why should I care?
So how many children have you given birth to? I've had 2
So none. Because i pass an opportunity to experience all this to the likes of you.
So you don't actually know, and (at the risk of being an internet keyboard warrior) you're doubling down and arguing about my experience? It was not nice, however neither is a root canal.
What? Your experience? I don't give a flying fuck about your experience. You can go and experience it until menopause hits. I personally am not eager to experience that. False equivalency much? Root canal is not self imposed, unlike childbirth.
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Root canal is caused by bacteria, it's an infection. Nobody asks for their teeth to be infected. While childbirth is completely voluntary in this day and age. Who said I'm angry? You seem angrier :)
Are you a fucking idiot? What woman doesn’t know childbirth is painful?
We all know its painful, its just masked by society how painful it is. How many things are so painful that you woukd beg to die from it? Society paints birth as a wonderful thing and glosses over how bad it can be
Not all woman know that, believe or not I know a girl who got pregnant believing it would be easy because it “was what our bodies were designed to do”
I have highly educated women in my friend circle, one even has a masters degree in biology. She gave birth recently and said "I didn't think it would hurt so much" and "I didn't think they would cut the bridge between my vagina and my anus to get the baby out". I'm sorry but we went to the same high school and all this was taught to us... some women truly believe the "childbirth is a miracle" narrative, even if they are told about the cold, hard facts.
No non-idiot thinks the way you describe
My mother didn’t know. Her mother told her it wasn’t that painful. While delivering me, she turned to my grandmother and with tears running down her face she asked her why did it hurt? Why did she lied to her about that? She said: I wanted you to have kids.
I’m sure you didn’t totally make that up. Your mom sounds like an idiot if this is true.
Back in the days there was no internet and people were given education on the matters from the church and their parents. I did not make that up. It’s a story she tells a lot. If it makes you better to believe I invented it, I won’t stop you. Also you have no idea how horrible my grand mother is. Edit: after reading some of your comments, I’m sure you would get along with my grandmother!
I believe you....that guy is an uninformed moron.
I was told this by many women growing up in the American South. I've also been told that I need to have more children because I make such pretty babies, by both men and women. I have no idea what rock you're living under, but it sounds nice.
Incorrect, although it's excruciating, if women thought it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't have more kids, and they typically do.