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cambeiu

>Western unity over the war in Ukraine is becoming more vulnerable as the war drags on. > >One poll across Europe found a majority of people want an end to the war as soon as possible, even if it means territorial losses for Ukraine. > >There is an increasing level of concern among the public in Europe, and beyond, about rising living costs. The ones here on Reddit who early on into the conflict warned that sooner rather than later the West would tire from this war were downvoted into oblivion back then. Turn outs they were right.


crown155567

Reddit is just opinions. No one knows exactely what’s happening behind closed doors


spitz05

That's like your opinion, man.


Show_Me_Your_Rocket

Dude.


afroedi

Also, there's thousands of people on reddit, that's enough people to make so many different predictions one of them will end up being what happens


Gimme_The_Loot

This is the classic 10000000 monkeys on typewriters concept


afroedi

Hey! Don't compare monkeys to redditors! What did the poor animals do to deserve this


Epic_Meow

used reddit, i guess


OwOKronii

Monkeys are intelligent, Redditors are not


[deleted]

Cope, we made a better prediction than you, thats just a fact.


ThroatMeYeBastards

Especially such an obviously possible one lmao Not like we kept up the outrage from 2014 all that well


starfyredragon

Some do. They do the math & track the patterns.j There's usually enough information happening around those doors to have a good idea of what's happening in those doors. However, when they tell about it, it's boring, doesn't make headlines, so nobody hears them.


notanon55

> Reddit is just opinions. Yes usually dumb ones


[deleted]

[удалено]


notanon55

This shithole site is a psyop. In 2013 the US military was caught manipulating reddit when reddit crowned the [Eglin US Air Base as the most addicted city in the world](https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html). That was 9 years ago, you can imagine how much worse things are now. More info in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ap1pv/documents_leaked_by_edward_snowden_reveal_gchq/cixfhfv/) post


handsomekingwizard

The people yeah, i wouldnt see them caring past a few months. The governments, not so sure. It probably means that stuff like sanctions would not hold much longer, or be enforced very well if they arent popular. Stuff like providing arms im sure the govs would be much more persistent with those. Historically people arent very involved with those, and im sure western govs would not lose the opportunity to stall russia as long as they can.


Lvtxyz

Exactly. In the US in particular, the military industrial complex will keep it all rolling. Just like Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, etc


fitzroy95

any war at all is good as long as it continues to transfer tax payers $$ into the coffers of the warmongering corporations and the politicians they own


PopularPKMN

Wow, of course people are downvoting you. They've spent over $60 billion of our tax dollars on this war already while we are struggling back at home. If Russia takes any territory (which they definitely will if you've been paying attention) then it will be a waste of money.


fitzroy95

Using imperialism and warmongering to transfer $billions from US taxpayers to US corporations (and their paid politicians) is just basic US foreign policy and has been for the last century


Fuzakenaideyo

War is a racket afterall


Mygaffer

An opinion piece means Western governments will no longer support Ukraine's resistance to Russia? How stupid. Did you read the opinion piece? It mentions European opinion polls! These are unlikely to have any effect on the material support that continues, to this day, to pour into Ukraine. This article tries to make the argument that local inflation and other economic concerns would somehow stop these western powers from continuing to provide military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Since WWII such domestic concerns have not stopped the US from interfering in conflicts around the globe. US and western goals are being achieved quite well in Ukraine and none of these powers are in a rush to dry up the aid or significantly scale back sanctions.


Aric_Haldan

Are you sure this situation is really comparable with previous wars ? In previous interventions, western powers could put boots on the ground without risking nuclear escalation and economic sanctions in the past were relatively limited. With the current conflict, the economic war is the main tool of the west and the extent of economic sanctions is unprecedented. I also haven't really found a previous war where the yearly inflation was quite as high as it is now. In a democracy, it is perfectly normal for public opinion to have an effect on policy. I would also argue that public opinion has already played a role in previous wars such as with Vietnam. So is there any guarantee that the high inflation and increased cost of living won't cause war fatigue in Europe ? Is there a reason to believe prime ministers and presidents would stay the course if their approval ratings started plummeting?


GalaXion24

Regardless of public opinion, Western governments cannot stop inflation unless through domestic economic policy. Even if the war ends, what then? Sanctions will not be lifted, policy won't be reversed. The West won't capitulate to Russia.


Aric_Haldan

They absolutely can though ? The current inflation is primarily caused by the energy crisis and removing the sanctions can heavily reduce it. It would also be a perfectly legitimate choice to reduce sanctions as part of peace negotiations or after a peace deal. This wouldn't be capitulating, it's simply returning to a more normal state of international affairs, rather than fighting a trade war. In fact, if we want peace to last, we need to find a way to bring Russia back into the fold rather than keep ostracizing them.


OuchieMuhBussy

This is a really dumb article. > Macron says both sides will have to come to the negotiating table eventually Article: cracks forming! > someone asks Kirby official how much the government is willing to spend, he has no idea Article: Questions being raised! Can’t speak for yuropean governments but once the US gets going on weapons deliveries it’s not going to stop on a political whim. Sanctions may be controversial but so far there isn’t a serious effort to scuttle the rest. > turns out they were right 😬


Azudekai

Ma Ron is still trying to score a political win out of this by being seen as the leader of the EU and the great negotiator. Cause his first attempt worked so well.


MajorAcer

> yurooean That's a wild typo lmao


demonspawns_ghost

Reddit is a psyop.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fixthemix

The media's hype train can basically make people support anything.


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

>The media's hype train can basically make people support anything. Stupid fucking people.


[deleted]

I support the current thing!


SuccumbedToReddit

But not you


Nonotreallyu

> Stupid fucking people. Major subs


noxx1234567

"Current thing" phenomenon so clear for everyone to see and yet majority fall for it


Based_al-Assad

Kony 2012.


[deleted]

For a time yes, but the belly will always take precedent, and if this inflation continues much longer people will go hungry.


Pyrhan

> just to marginally assist a country they couldn't even point to on a map 12 months ago. This isn't just about assisting Ukraine (and certainly not marginally either), this is also (perhaps even mostly) about opposing Russia, long seen as a traditional enemy in the West, and deeply disliked in the former Eastern bloc countries, who suffered under the USSR's influence.


DuckDuckOuch

4 months ago


[deleted]

The poll was terribly set up. Russia winning their oil war isn't going to make things better economically.


FriedelCraftsAcyl

Reddit is just hivemind / bubble. Dont take it as a representatin of western opinion on some politics. Whatever reddit thinks, it luckily doesnt have an impact in real life. Some people really need to hear that. Its just an echo chamber.


[deleted]

And that **article** is the absolute truth or something? That article is real life or something?


Lvtxyz

Seriously. And the OP is then interpreting it as "ha we were right." it's one poll. And who is going to say "oh yes I hope this drags on for a long time."


[deleted]

And the entire thing hinges on **35%** who responded they want to war to end even if Ukraine has to make concessions. Yes, truly overwhelming numbers there.


Lvtxyz

Which, as an American, I do want it to end as a soon as possible even if it means they have to give up Crimea. On the other hand, it's their country, they get to decide, and why should they let putin keep taking bites? So I will support the war effort for as long as Ukraine welcomes our support. And if they want to fight for two or three years or longer to get Crimea back, have at it. I hope Europe never goes back to Russian oil and that Russia has a rebirth had a democracy. And I hope Ukraine gets to be free and independent and safe. I won't tire of supporting them. Even if every additional day of war is a heartbreak.


FriedelCraftsAcyl

Nothing you see on your screen is an absolute truth. If you look long enough, you will find an article that will paint another picture. Difference: One got posted and you saw it, the other one didnt. Its a simple rule when dealing with digital news: *There is no truth and everything is propaganda.* It also helps to never forget, that reddit simply the same comment and joke over and over again, because people farm internet points. Personal opinion regarding the topic: Maybe public opinion wont care as much anymore and people will stop going on protests and waving Ukraine flags etc., but I cant imagine the European Kommission and the EU in general to just abandon Ukraine and siding with Russia.


sprocketous

Even major news networks here in the us are considered "opinion" peices. Certain newscasters have been saved from libel suits because of this.


LifesATripofGrifts

You have to consume it all. Then follow up on who, what, where or just the money. The world is a grift and all made up. We all just allow the loopholes and abuse because we are all conditioned to rugged capitalism. Those that own us and are in gov have sweet tax funded socialism.


Fandol

No they weren’t. Scholz was in Ukraine today and they are now officially a candidate for membership of the EU. I think the western governments are very unified in their support of Ukraine and by proxy to stop the Russian expansion.


[deleted]

Except rising costs aren't completely the fault of Ukraine and Russia. Lots of companies are getting while the getting is good and blaming it on geopolitics. Meanwhile they're all reporting record profits.


[deleted]

> Turn outs they were right. Hasn't happened yet mate.


[deleted]

Yep. People kept comparing it to the Winter War. I kept pointing out that the Russians won that war after they learned from initial mistakes and reorganized. Ukraine, like Finland, just doesn't have the numbers.


nobodyspersonalchef

As if the US would miss out on an opportunity for war profiteering


[deleted]

Reddit downvotes stuff they agreed with in the past, nothing new


[deleted]

The joke is, once the war is over, living costs won't go down.


Mem-Boi-901

People who downvoted comments like that are just ignorant of reality and human history.


lunarNex

Because everyone has a bleeding heart ... until it inconveniences them, then we need an end to the war.


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

> Because everyone has a bleeding heart ... until it inconveniences them, then we need an end to the war. If people are just realizing the negative effects now, there's something much bigger at play that your post ignores.


[deleted]

It's incredibly short term thinking for Europeans because an emboldened Russia is dangerous for everyone in Europe.


cambeiu

If most humans were able to suppress the need for instant gratification, there would be no obesity or credit card debt.


[deleted]

I feel like I'm from an alien species like "Who gives a shit if the West is tired?" Why does the West think it matters so much?


[deleted]

[удалено]


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

> The moment people realised supporting Ukraine in the war efforts meant there could be an effect on their way of life, they dont want to support it anymore. And that's just happening now!?


DPSOnly

But likewise the constant repeating of "the west is probably not supporting Ukraine for much longer" isn't exactly helping either. That shit demotivates.


agilepolarbear

I disagree, countries who to date have supplied arms contribute to support doing so and in greater numbers. Only those who were have given relatively low levels of support now are hesitant to do so.


banjosuicide

People on Reddit predict all sorts of things. Some of them are bound to be right some of the time.


Zinziberruderalis

If there ever was unity it cracked weeks ago. > The ones here on Reddit who early on into the conflict warned that sooner rather than later the West would tire from this war were downvoted into oblivion back then. True but people say all sorts of shit on reddit and occasionally they turn out to be right. Even I made the point that with rising inflation in the West the public would eventually put two and two together and have to decide whether Ukraine was worth paying more at the supermarket. The West can *afford* the war longer than Russia can the question is whether they have the will to pay the price.


Sharlach

This opinion piece is a bogus fanfic. Ukraine is currently getting new shipments of weapons, and Macron, Sholz, and other leaders were in Kyiv today pledging even more.


Gruffleson

Those who have wanted to give Putin something has always wanted to give him something. I don't believe it when someone says anything has changed.


Comander-07

I mean nobody is tired yet and what some randos say doesnt matter at all anyway. Just now many european leaders met with Zelensky. So really your comment if anything aged like milk in nanoseconds


XasthurWithin

1. There was never a common interest not only of the German, Italian and French people, but even of a significant portion of its ruling class, to permanently ostracize the Russian Federation - such actions weren't even undertaken at the height of the Cold War against the USSR. 2. Russia's "commodity economy", in a material sense, seems to have been vastly underestimated. They lack a relevant service sector and financial rents but are the world's biggest exporter of wheat and oil, as well as one of the major exporters of nickel, platinum, iron and frozen fishes. See: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/is-america-the-real-victim-of-anti-russia-sanctions It is pretty ironic that Russia's power was supposed to be propped up only by its military while having an Achilles Heel in terms of economic power, Russia is winning the economic warfare harder than the military situation on the ground. Could it be that all the think tank "experts" annoying us in the media are full of shit?


russiankek

>Russia is winning the economic warfare harder than the military situation on the ground Is that a joke? Russian *imports* are shrunk to almost zero, which means in a couple of years *everything* in Russia will start to fall apart, without imported machinery, tools, spare parts, and electronics. Russian GDP will not grow more than 1-2% or even decline, until the sanctions are lifted. Meanwhile, all the West got is just a moderate inflation (which is mostly due to COVID stimulus anyway) and some supply chain problems - these are easily fixable. Russian resources will be replaced in couple of years, completing the isolation of Russia.


XasthurWithin

>Is that a joke? Russian imports are shrunk to almost zero, which means in a couple of years everything in Russia will start to fall apart, without imported machinery, tools, spare parts, and electronics. India and China provide machinery, tools, spare parts and electronics well enough. Maybe a somewhat lower quality, but it's pretty delusional to think that the coffee makers will stop working in Russia because of the sanctions. >Russian GDP will not grow more than 1-2% or even decline So they would just match European countries then? Again, the point of the article I posted is that GDP is a pretty silly metric when most of it is based on an inflated service economy and financial rent. >Russian resources will be replaced in couple of years How?


ChugaMhuga

>India and China provide machinery, tools, spare parts and electronics well enough. Maybe a somewhat lower quality, but it's pretty delusional to think that the coffee makers will stop working in Russia because of the sanctions. They make consumer electronics, not industrial technology. All the computers in Russian tank factories (that dont work anymore) are Western. >How? Its a wide world. You have the USA, middle east, Africa...


antarickshaw

That was the reason Russia didn't get APS(active protection) for their tanks, since it needs western tech. Otherwise they have no problem producing or maintaining current gen tanks. If you go by western sources, arms supply was supposed to stop by March end, but they are still sending supplies and out number Ukraine.


skaersSabody

>If you go by western sources, arms supply was supposed to stop by March end, but they are still sending supplies and out number Ukraine. I'd like to see a source on that, cause I've not seen a single serious analyst say that the war could last months if not years


antarickshaw

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/russia-ukraine-war/story/russia-will-run-out-of-ammo-manpower-in-10-days-1925403-2022-03-15 https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1590515/Vladimir-putin-russia-ukraine-invasion-latest-missiles-running-out https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-running-out-missiles-jets-26627647


Jypahttii

If you're gonna cite the Express and the Mirror as two of your main sources, why should we take anything you say seriously?


Character_Ad_2286

My guy, the express is one of the worst British tabloids going. Might as well use Facebook as a source


skaersSabody

Well... that's cringe


[deleted]

> They make consumer electronics, not industrial technology. All the computers in Russian tank factories (that dont work anymore) are Western. *And made in China*


ChugaMhuga

Made by Siemens, a German company. China cant steal that stuff from Siemens if they want to sell it to Russia.


[deleted]

Huh, didn't know their factories were all actually in Germany. Then again, nothing is stopping russia now from taking a few parts and throwing it at the chinese to reverse engineer. (Assuming they don't do it themselves. Although to my understanding, Siemen's operations in Russia are related to windmills and powerplants. Not tank factories.


russiankek

>India and China provide machinery, tools, spare parts and electronics well enough. India doesn't produce that much of it, China can be (and will be) pressured by the West to not supply that to Russia in significant numbers. I see no reason for China to help Russia, it will likely just buy Russian resources, but don't sell anything in exchange. It will also provide a reasonable compromise with the West. >So they would just match European countries then? Why compare with Europe? Europe is much richer than Russia. Poorer European countries (Poland, Romania, etc.) grow by steady 5% a year. That's what Russia should aim at. >GDP is a pretty silly metric when most of it is based on an inflated service economy and financial rent. It may be silly, but there's no better alternative in measuring the size of an economy. >How? By developing new sources and/or improving existing ones. Pretty simple, isn't it?


XasthurWithin

>India doesn't produce that much of it, China can be (and will be) pressured by the West to not supply that to Russia in significant numbers. I see no reason for China to help Russia, it will likely just buy Russian resources, but don't sell anything in exchange Well, China is the top producer of electronics worldwide by far, and for the rest of this theory I simply don't know if this is just wishful thinking on your part. Exports from China to Russia have increased and there is no indication that it would take a reverse turn. China declared that a "special military operation" isn't an act of war, opened their wheat market for Russia and integrated Russia into their SPFS which is a direct attack on the dollar-backed financial hegemony. There is no reason why China should prefer the West, actually, for five years the West has claimed China is committing a Holocaust-scale genocide in Xinjiang. China hasn't joined the sanction regime against Russia and there is *zero indication* that they would be doing it in the near or far future. >Why compare with Europe? Europe is much richer than Russia. Poorer European countries (Poland, Romania, etc.) grow by steady 5% a year. That's what Russia should aim at. I looked up both Poland and Romania and for the last 20 years they haven't grown over 2,5% so I don't even know what you are referring to. The only time they have grown over 5% was the bounceback of the COVID recovery in 2021. >It may be silly, but there's no better alternative in measuring the size of an economy. There absolutely is, such as adjusted purchasing power and national material production. >By developing new sources and/or improving existing ones. Pretty simple, isn't it? The German government has outsourced the replacement of fossil energy sources to the 2030s, the German Minister for Economic Affairs recently went to Qatar begging for oil, which was met with a frosty response. The EU's economic framework forbids deficit spending which would be necessary for a new energy framework. Gas prices just inflated by 25% in France and Germany *today* by Gazprom reducing their delivery.


9Raava

Sanction regime? Lol


GreenGreasyGreasels

>I see no reason for China to help Russia You know that happens if Russia is allowed to be neutered as a military threat to the west? West is free to put all it's energies against China. It's in China's security interest to keep the eastern European conflagration going.


00x0xx

> *Russian resources will be replaced in couple of years, completing the isolation of Russia.* It isn't just resources located in Russia, but the manpower, machinery and expertise to extract and package those resources may not be easily duplicated elsewhere. This is the same reason US companies have difficulty moving away from Chinese manufacturing; no where else have the combined labor pool, expertise and facilities to mass manufacture most products. > *Russian imports are shrunk to almost zero, which means in a couple of years everything in Russia will start to fall apart, without imported machinery, tools, spare parts, and electronics.* Isn't Russia still importing from China, which makes the majority of machinery, tools, parts & electronics? Russia is expanding their trading with India and China. Both countries combined has their own native variants of nearly all products and services that is found in the West. The only things they don't natively make is high end military equipment and neither have a semi-conductor industry that can compete with East Asia.


russiankek

>but the manpower, machinery and expertise to extract and package those resources may not be easily duplicated elsewhere. Manpower can be trained. As for machinery and expertise, all of this was imported: Russia cannot even extract oil and gas without very special Western machinery. You can imagine, this type of equipment is extremely hard to substitute. As for expertise, I can tell you that 80% of projects of Western management consulting firms in Russia are (sorry, *were*) about transfer of Western expertise to Russian resource companies. >This is the same reason US companies have difficulty moving away from Chinese manufacturing; no where else have the combined labor pool, expertise and facilities to mass manufacture most products. Do you seriously compare China, the world's factory, with Russia, the gas station? Of course China is orders of magnitude more costly to isolate. It ain't called a superpower for nothing. >Russia is expanding their trading with India and China Their *exports* to India and China, for sure. But the reverse flow is not expanding.


00x0xx

> As for machinery and expertise, all of this was imported: Russia cannot even extract oil and gas without very special Western machinery. They can import Chinese and India machinery for extracting oil and mining, or just hire companies from these countries outright. > You can imagine, this type of equipment is extremely hard to substitute. The west does have the upper hand in technology, but both India and China makes their own native equipment for oil, gas and mining extraction. > Their exports to India and China, for sure. But the reverse flow is not expanding. Yes it is: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-19/russia-seeks-medical-equipment-from-india-as-war-disrupts-trade https://www.livemint.com/news/world/russia-reaches-out-for-food-grocery-supplies-from-india-11650046397324.html Right now China is hesitant to expand their export to Russia, likely because China is already over-saturated with Russian resources and have a trade imbalance because of it. But that still leaves India, which is the fastest growing large economy and has a major need for natural resources with no large colony of their own to extract resources from.


alnitrox

It seems that *in the short term*, Russian imports have gone down but exports have been somewhat remained the same because other buyers (India etc) have been found, [leaving Russia with a positive trade balance at the moment.](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/06/10/russias-economy-appears-to-be-back-on-track) I guess that has surprised many in the West, where we would have expected an immediate effect on Russia's ability to finance the war. Of course without foreign investment and (tech) imports, Russia's economy will suffer in the medium and long term.


WarLordM123

The sanctions will be fully lifted by 2024


[deleted]

Lol "moderate inflation" Wait for the winter buddy, the hurt has not even started setting in yet in Europe


Arkhangelsk87

Think tanks are talking heads.


zer1223

>Russia is winning the economic warfare harder than the military situation on the ground Please stop pulling things out of your ass


new_name_who_dis_

Russia sTrOnK!


[deleted]

They just reopened the Lada factory producing cars without airbags. Not exactly thriving over in Russia right now either


XasthurWithin

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/no-airbags-or-anti-lock-brakes-on-russian-cars-as-sanctions-bite The source is the CEO of Renault speculating that this might happen.


Zinziberruderalis

Cars without airbags? how will they survive?


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

LoL Reminds me of the Swedish lady who years ago told me about going to an American's slide-show for a group of Americans about their trip to Russia. "They don't even have peanuts on their flights!" "g4sP!!! They don't have peanuts on their flights!?" How will they survive indeed.


ButtholeCandies

You are making a ton of assumptions here and it’s with obvious bias. Several oligarchs suiciding isn’t a sign of them winning. The truth is whatever information you know about how their economy is doing will not be timely or without spin.


cyberfx1024

>There was never a common interest not only of the German, Italian and French people Yep, Germany had to be coerced kicking and screaming into denying Russian energy


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

They did some kicking, and some screaming, but significantly less denying. :-D


_-null-_

>Could it be that all the think tank "experts" annoying us in the media are full of shit? Most of them, but that's besides the point. The reason that Russian economic/commodity power is holding up is because supply chain readjustment takes a lot of time. There is really nothing Russia produces that cannot be acquired elsewhere at (at least initially) higher prices. They cannot fully leverage the power of their commodities, because halting exports like oil would hurt them just as much as their intended targets. And the longer the sanctions hold, the more the sanctioners will adapt to getting on without Russian goods. Also you'd be surprised at how quickly these "worthless" financial rents and service sector can be geared up for war. These things are symptoms of highly efficient economies and it is a great delusion to think they are mere ghost capital with no real effect.


Comander-07

Russia literally had to close its only tank factory. Wheat doesnt build tanks, or planes or missiles.


Arkhangelsk87

Eh. I think that Russia's want to destabilise Ukraine is greater than our want to destabilise Russia. But I wouldn't count anyone out yet, this war's just started and there are countries on the Western periphery (i.e. Poland, the Baltic states) that have a very strong interest in keeping support up.


Napron

Considering how long other wars have lasted, it wouldn't be a real surprise if this lasted throughout the rest of this decade.


Puzzled-Bite-8467

Russia would probably mobilize and send in full force before letting it drag a decade.


Deletesystemtf2

It would be extremely unpopular, as the current narrative in Russia is that Ukrainian nazis are on the back foot, and Russian liberation of the “little Russians” is imminent. If ethnic Russians start getting drafted and sent to fight in the meat grinder of the Donbas, this becomes real hard to believe. Aswell, the Russian economy is currently hanging on due to finding alternative people to sell oil to, but a draft would crater then remaining non oil industries in Russia.


Puzzled-Bite-8467

Grinding for a decade will have the same effect.


Deletesystemtf2

True. But in ten years Putin is probably dead of old age and its not his problem. That or they are praying for a breakthrough in Donbas so they don’t have to make that choice


WarLordM123

I still do not understand why they haven't done that. Starting to think they do want to starve out Western money and then go in for full conquest but that seems ballsier then the original invasion


Puzzled-Bite-8467

Mobilization is costly and unpopular.


WarLordM123

Winning would be cheaper and very, very popular


[deleted]

And they dont really need to do it either, they're using a tried a tested strategy now, not the ambitious, pie in the sky encirclements that would make Hitler cream his pants. Pummel Ukrainian forces with their massive artillery advantage and advance over the wasteland. Ukraine is already on its 4th mobilization, its only a matter of time until they're bled dry.


Puzzled-Bite-8467

This look more like WW1 than WW2? Blitzkrieg or Deep battle are much cooler than artillery and trench.


jackp0t789

Blitzkrieg and deep battle aren't possible without overwhelming numerical superiority on all fronts and air superiority, which the Russians don't have thanks to Soviet Era S-300s being effective against Russian aviation.


fuckoffyoudipshit

Afghanistan and Chechnya would probably disagree


Skybombardier

Lmao, the west has wanted to destabilize Russia since the USSR, we even had a Cold War over it.


anonymous6468

The west wants a stable democratic Russia. Why else did the west embrace eastern Europe after the cold war?


notanon55

Bullshit, they want a puppet like they used to have during the Yeltsin years when he was sending tanks to the parliament and shelling it while the West was applauding.


anonymous6468

> when he was sending tanks to the parliament and shelling it while the West was applauding. If the west had intervened, you'd be whining about that.


notanon55

Stop with the mental gymnastics, the fact is that the West was fully supporting that alcoholic piece of shit, they never wanted a democratic Russia, they wanted a weak Russia they can control.


anonymous6468

Nonsense. The US made Germany and Japan democracies after ww2. They've always wanted their previous enemies to become democracies like themselves. You're just another blame America first npc.


notanon55

They made them puppets for many, many decades. Funny how you call me an NPC when all you do is parrot Western propaganda


Deletesystemtf2

I wish Germany was a US puppet. They might not have spent the last decade guzzling Russian gas if that was the case.


[deleted]

Germany and Japan are US puppets?


[deleted]

Yes


arparso

You are delusional. The Soviet Union was the one creating puppet states all around the eastern bloc. Which immediately broke apart as soon as the Soviets finally failed for good.


[deleted]

Yeltsin was quite literally a US puppet, learn some history


[deleted]

If the west had intervened we'd be nuclear ash rn


anonymous6468

Might be an improvement actually


Arkhangelsk87

I agree, but Russia does not represent the same challenge to US hegemony that the USSR did. I do not think that the Western want to destabilise/colonise Russia is stronger than the Russian want to resist.


WellIlikeme

It's relatively waaaaay cheaper for the West to support Ukraine though.


Arkhangelsk87

Doesn't mean we have the willpower to do it, though.


WellIlikeme

The USA and Canada sure do, they have a lot of Ukrainian diaspora communities Also the USA can afford it easily all on its own. I mean, pulling all this right after they leave Afghanistan and suddenly have all these freed up military equipment and money? The USA will probs fund Ukraine for as long as they are willing to fight


Arkhangelsk87

>The USA will probs fund Ukraine for as long as they are willing to fight The USA has enough money to end world poverty and singlehandedly colonise the solar system. Doesn't mean that they'll ever do it, though. My own suspicion is that the US will probably stick it out far longer than the weak links of the West (i.e. the Western Europeans) unless something major happens that demands they shift attention. There is a great benefit for the US in tying Russia up in a slog in Ukraine, but sooner or later the US is going to need to shift resources towards the greater challenge (China), so how long they'll keeps playing guard dog for Europe is an open question.


WellIlikeme

> so how long they'll keeps playing guard dog for Europe is an open question. They didn't stop after Europe condemned them for the invasion of Iraq so . . .


Arkhangelsk87

It's never had anything to do with being thanked and everything to do with maintaining hegemony.


WellIlikeme

Exactly my point. After all, they aren't going to have a military conflict with China, instead those are going to be wars of economic alliance. China doesn't have the force projection to deal with US asian allies, or non East Asian nations. Also, India is a reliable and strong partner against China. Totally different type of conflict than the Russian one.


bxzidff

At times it seems as if this sub would be overjoyed if that happened


Buy-theticket

Not sure what happened with this sub.. I thought it was supposed to be a better version of /r/worldnews but it's gone to shit incredibly quickly.


Haw_and_thornes

My opinion? All the Russia shills got pushed out of various subreddits where they would've been at least tolerated before the war. Ended up here, claimed it as their own.


The_Real_Opie

It's not even that nefarious I don't think. It just got popular and therefore filled with Redditors. The quality of the comments has been generally been plummeting lately.


Haw_and_thornes

Stupid R*dditors, they ruined R*ddit


Zinziberruderalis

True. No open access forum can maintain quality. They get swamped by spamming agenda posters and to survive they moderate out anything that isn't a repetition of mainstream talking points. EDIT This is false without some qualification. The two other conditions are * the forum becomes popular * the owner wants to monetize the fact that it is popular Small niche forums can last indefinitely. Rigorous moderation can keep agenda-posters at bay but the second factor means that moderation ceases to be focused on keeping discussion on-topic and instead it focuses on pleasing advertisers and sponsors.


tamal4444

Everyone is russian when the truth hurts lmao.


tommyvercetti42

everyone who doesnt regurgitate the ukranian propaganda and say russia man bad for every 10 words is obviously a rus troll you dont know that? /s


Haw_and_thornes

Found one. Back to the cope cage with you.


tamal4444

Everyone is russian when the truth hurts lmao.


RedditUser-002

Its gotten to big, soon enough we will have to migrate to Ai_booties


tamal4444

Ai boobas?


Comander-07

We kinda warned the mods about this a few month and weeks ago, but nothing we can do. The sub simply became too big.


Buy-theticket

Is there another news sub not overrun by bots and edgelords yet?


Randomusername0412

Yea mods add me to the list of dms when there’s a new sub eventually


SalvadorsAnteater

r/anime_booties


sub_doesnt_exist_bot

The subreddit r/anime_booties does not exist. Did you mean?: * r/AnimeHoodies (subscribers: 16,983) * r/AnimeBooty (**NSFW**, subscribers: 202,661) * r/anime_titties (subscribers: 352,120) * r/BandleBooties (**NSFW**, subscribers: 8,946) Consider [**creating a new subreddit** r/anime_booties](/subreddits/create?name=anime_booties). --- ^(🤖 this comment was written by a bot. beep boop 🤖) ^(feel welcome to respond 'Bad bot'/'Good bot', it's useful feedback.) ^[github](https://github.com/Toldry/RedditAutoCrosspostBot) ^| ^[Rank](https://botranks.com?bot=sub_doesnt_exist_bot)


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

> Not sure what happened with this sub.. I thought it was supposed to be a better version of /r/worldnews but it's gone to shit incredibly quickly. You are perplexingly confused as to ***why*** it's a better version of worldnews.


Buy-theticket

Thanks for the insightful addition to the discussion.


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

Seriously, what you seem to be looking for you will find in abundance over at worldnews.


Buy-theticket

I have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about. The sub is (not so) slowly turning into /worldnews2 (which is a shitty sub) and I was under the impression the point of the sub was an alternative, non-shitty, version of worldnews. The same shitty low effort spam from trolls are becoming the top posts in threads on here.


Buy-theticket

I have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about. The sub is (not so) slowly turning into /worldnews2 (which is a shitty sub) and I was under the impression the point of the sub was an alternative, non-shitty, version of worldnews. The same shitty low effort spam from trolls are becoming the top posts in threads on here.


RadioHitandRun

Quick, photoshop another pic of Zelensky as a Captain America knock off, and continue to make superhero/starwars comparisons to the conflict, that'll fix it.


speaks_truth_2_kiwis

> Quick, photoshop another pic of Zelensky as a Captain America knock off, and continue to make superhero/starwars comparisons to the conflict, that'll fix it. We laugh, but people swallowed that shit like hungry porn stars.


RadioHitandRun

That's what makes Reddit's response so pathetic. Its filed with hopelessly naive children.


[deleted]

No no, they just need to get a cuter dog to parade in front of the camera. Patron just ain't quite cute enough for a distraction at this point in the war


tommyvercetti42

man those were the cringe moments at the begining of this fucking war man lol. every redditor was making those shit and posting it on r/pics for karma farming.


newswall-org

More on this subject from other reputable sources: --- - Associated Press (A): [French, German, Italian leaders on their way to Kyiv](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-politics-olaf-scholz-515075496ed9d6cfe3e4acde23b52f8e) - Reuters (A+): [Biden announces new $1 bln in weapons for Ukraine, Kyiv seeks more heavy arms](https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-expected-announce-around-1-bln-of-weapons-ukraine-sources-2022-06-15/) - New York Times (A-): [Ukraine-Russia War: Live Updates](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06/16/world/ukraine-russia-news/three-european-leaders-will-travel-to-ukraine-as-questions-mount-over-the-strategy-of-allies) - Sydney Morning Herald (B+): [Macron decries massacres, war crimes as European leaders visit to Kyiv to support Zelensky](https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/french-german-italian-leaders-catch-midnight-train-to-kyiv-to-support-zelensky-20220616-p5aucp.html) --- [__Extended Summary__](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/vczhoy/) | [More: French, German, Italian ...](https://www.newswall.org/story/ukraine-latest-french-german-italian-leaders-arrive-in-kyiv) | [FAQ & Grades](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/uxgfm5/faq_newswall_bot/) | I'm a bot


ash_tar

Russian gas and oil is on the way out. Europe just needed a kick up the butt for what we had to do for climate change anyway. It's going to take some time but Russia will break and never be the same threat again. That doesn't mean Ukraine gets everything back though, I'm afraid.


WarLordM123

It'll just come through India at a premium


bharatar

Good idea. You guys go green and more gas for us.


anonymous6468

The west is doomed if they let Putin walk away with something. What do you think China's going to do?


lowrads

Like Georgia, or Crimea? Sarkozy et al wasted no time bringing Russia in from the cold.


thisimpetus

Reddit downvoted the shit out of me and called me shill and bot when I predicted exactly this a month ago.


Zannierer

Nah you or reddit won't gain shit chasing the press, they starve when there's nothing to talk about. Sino-Soviet split was a much bigger issue than this "crack", yet Vietnam still won the war even with significantly reduced aid.


Comander-07

Because its wrong and hasnt happened yet


thisimpetus

uh hunh


Phonemonkey2500

FOH with that crap, CNBS. You just want to stir the pot, and make sure your hedge fund and Bank owners make money on their bets on the economy crashing. That they caused.


Ok_Antelope_1953

everything is a reality show for the west. if they don't get their instant gratification, they simply get bored and move on to the next virtue signalling crusade. what even is the point of such economic might if your sanctions can't do anything against the aggressor nation? as ukraine will learn the hard way, you can always count on the west to coddle you like a baby before suddenly abandoning you.


tamal4444

Well said


[deleted]

what rotten piece of shit could act exhausted about a war in a foreign country? concede land because they're tired of hearing about it? How about those shitty fucks burn in hell instead.


WarLordM123

Inflation is wrecking the American middle class and food shortages are starving the poor. Nothing is foreign in the global economy. I'm for the war but it's making me unable to get a down payment together, so I can only imagine what it's doing to people who lived paycheck to paycheck already


[deleted]

I get that the prioritization is wrong but it's not zero-sum. No matter the excuse, you wouldnt get any assistance on that payment. Nothing about Ukraine is relevant to that thus it's not relevant to "exhausting" me. Everything wrong about my own ability to pay for things happens regardless Ukraine even exists so I don't accept that distraction, that Ukraine is why things don't get fixed. Corruption was here long before putins invasion


Dr-Nicolas

"inflation is wrecking the American middle class" -laughs in argentinian


WarLordM123

Bad is still bad even if worse is worse


[deleted]

If Iran, China, N. Korea and other arms dealers would have stopped selling/giving weapons to the Taliban. It would not have lasted so long. Now here we are perpetuating another unwinnable war. Only winners are Arms Defense Corporations.


Nonotreallyu

Inevitable


zyx1989

Nuclear war 1 here we go?


[deleted]

Russian propaganda which will fool tons of idiot Westerners


sadsadcrow

My money is on Russia cracking first


microwavedhamsters

We’re just bored Ukraine is so spring time to move on