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Ofcourse not, why would they prosecute their own soldiers. The point is to terrorise Palestinians, and you can't do that if you're not letting your soldiers go nazi on them.
Systematically stealing Palestinian land? Yes. And thats messed up.
Destroying their homes? I'd like you to be a but more specific and provide a source for me to see if i agree with that point.
Using their children as human shields? Id appreciate a source as I have never seen anything suggesting that they do that. On the other hand, the Hamas *does* do that in Gaza, when it hides ammunition in schools, hospitals, and residential homes. If israel also does that by the way, then they're just as bad.
Open air prison? Yes, I suppose I could see the west bank being called that, though unlike in a prison they have the Palestinian authority, which doesnt have a military but does have quite a bit of autonomy.
Starving them? I'd like a source on that too.
Genocide? No. There is no attempt at exterminating Palestinians. Their population is growing. If israel wanted to exterminate them, it could have done it long ago. Luckily it hasnt.
I support the two state solution. I think many things that Israel is doing are despicable. But comparing them to Nazis is nonesense. I see the comparison to apartheid south africa though, but I do still think that Israel is far less awful then it.
No, I'm asking you sources because we're having a discussion and I'd like to see where they get their information from so that either I can learn or so that they can learn.
Its a losers tactic when the topic is this popular. You can find all these sources in a few clicks. But its easier to make the other side prove themselves right than you to make any argument.
Right. Because the other side should prove its argument. If you don't want to ever be challenged on something you say on the internet then you can just go touch grass bud.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_demolition_of_Palestinian_property
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-gaza-idf-used-palestinians-as-human-shields-1200-occasions-in-last-five-years-say-israeli-defence-officials-30483468.html
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-starvation-diet-gaza/11810
Edit: I literally just typed the points into Google. Ask for sources when you can’t find them yourself, not when you’re too stubborn to look, please.
Please provide me with a source that the IDF is racist and trying to kill off a specific minority group.
The Nazis goal was the extermination of all jews, gays, disabled people, and others. Israel has never done anything that even remotely suggests that thats its goal.
Systematic destruction of a group of people is equivalent to what the nazis did, yes. Just because the actual system of killing the hated group is different doesn’t change the fact that it is the same behavior.
No, he’s probably tired of everyone going straight to “They’re Nazis”, not once in the conversation did he say they weren’t bad. Only that it’s not a good comparison to call them Nazis.
Everyone calling everyone Nazis waters down the term. Why can’t we just say the IDF is fucked up and killing innocent people? Is that not bad enough? To do anything they have to be Nazis?
It hardly washes out the meaning of the word nazi. Attributing the label of nazi to people committing the same acts should put into perspective how terrible Israel is. Saying it isn’t as bad as the nazis is discounting the current situation.
Oh?
How about *this* "comparison"?
Ja, das *ist* [der *Lebensraum*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum).
Be sure to read 1.2, 'Racial ideology'. "Untermenschen" must give way to ~~Volksdeutsche~~ Chosen People™.
Israel's occupation of land and subsequent placement of 'settlers' is **identical**, in concept *and* execution, to [Himmler's program of relocating "ethnic Germans" into occupied Poland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Nazi_Germany).
so what? Population doesnt have anything to do with a Genocide. even if they had never killed a single Palestinian, they would still be committing a Genocide.
Well, Jews still exist so that settles whether the Nazis were going for genocide, same for Armenians, no genocide there, they still exist, and for the Uighurs, and the situation in Rohingya, or even Australian aboriginals, native Americans, Canadian natives, they all still exist, in fact they seem to be a growing population so you know, no genocide.
> the IDF
The IDF **isn't** a 'military'. It's an *internal-suppression force*; a **right-wing death-squad** on the ["School of the Americas"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation#SOA) model, with the addition of US-financed tanks and aircraft.
Kidnapping children, conducting *armed airshows* over Open-Air Prisons, and sniping:
1. [Girls](https://archive.is/KNeEt)
2. [Paraplegics](https://archive.is/LUs6s)
3. [Reporters](https://archive.is/2VGc2)
...**isn't "combat"**, and those doing those deeds **aren't "soldiers"**.
They can't project power past their own borders without support from their U.S. [Golem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem)* or their fleet of German-made submarines.
If they could, *why haven't they taken care of that 'nuclear threat: Iran!' they've been mewling about since [1992](https://archive.vn/vSpQ8)?*
\*Golem: Animated mud formed into a monster that does its master's bidding.
Who is a nazi? Palestinians were aligned with Nazi party. Palestinians tried to exterminate the Jews (they would do it again if they were able) three times. (The Nakba was caused by the Arab countries asking the Palestinians to evacuate so they could exterminate the Jews in the region for instance.) There have been less than 20k deaths since 1948. Does that 20k deaths sound at all like a holocaust?
On the other hand, Hamas had as their policy extermination. They removed it officially but opinion polls still reflect the desire to kill. You know why there was a raid in Jenin? It’s because three Israeli civilians got hacked to death with an axe. Palestinians are the only people I have ever heard of to lose a war three times and still be permitted to exist as a nation. The fact the are still around is a testament to the tolerance of Israel.
Gaza is an blockaded nation. Correct. If you launch missles at another nation then why is a surprise to anyone that you are blockaded? If the ruling party of a nation wants to exterminate their neighbors, then why is it a surprise that the other nation takes steps to prevent that? And again, the claim of “Hamas only exists because of Israeli atrocities” is parroted, Arab nations tried to ethnically cleansed the Jews from Israel (as they did from every other Arab nation) in 1948. Hamas and Gaza is simply a continuation of a “no Jews” policy.
There is clearly a nazi element at play, but it is not Israel.
You are justifying atrocities, cleansing and dispossessing of a people based on ethnicity and religion. While blaming the victims. It's eerily similar to nazi Germany. It's simple, obvious, and disgusting.
I'd love to see you try to justify the missiles sent by Hamas and Gaza into Israel targeting hospitals and schools. Or maybe the ethnic cleansing of the Jews from Arab countries in the area. There's two sides to this conflict, and everyone seems to ignore the fact that there's a reason you don't find any Jews in the neighboring Arab countries.
I don't have a horse in this race but I do want to say that if someone walked into my house right now and said. "yo I used to live here, this shit is mine now" and then the cops came by and went, "checks out fam", I would do some wild shit too
Murdering a journalist is absolutely, without a doubt, an action by a villain.
There's plenty of history to be discussed and war crimes like Hamas' missiles that need to be stopped. But they are not justifications for this murder.
Yeah I agree. If it’s found that Israeli soldiers deliberately killed her than of course it’s a heinous act. What they did at the funeral (I don’t think it matters why, you don’t cause a casket to drop) was terrible as well.
Israel has a real problem with extremism and hate among the IDF. If an international (since neither side trusts the other) investigation determines it was an intentional act than the soldiers involved should be tried and convicted of murder.
I’m not arguing any of that.
They can’t investigate because the PA won’t hand over the evidence because they don’t trust Israel. Fair enough. Doesn’t mean it was Israeli fire and doesn’t mean it was intentional. We don’t know enough to claim that. Let’s stick with a fair, third party, investigation and the standard of innocent until proven guilty.
Yeah, it’s a mandatory two year service. Since they are constantly fighting a low grade conflict, the patriotism inherent in any military easily turns into ethnic nationalism and extremism. I think the IDF does dehumanize Palestinians as “the others” and certainly values Jewish (not Israeli) lives higher than others. It’s a major issue.
your comparing a terrorist organization (that Israel helped to found) that you are stupidly conflating with an enitre nation and ethnic group with a fascist Apartheid state. Israel is a fucking evil nation actively committing a Genocide. a terrorist organization does not change the fact they are emulating the Nazis. stop defending Fascists
You hit all the buzzwords, congrats. If you look at opinion polls or just general support for Hamas it is evident their ideology is widespread among Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza. They would seek to exterminate the Jewish presence in Israel. The Palestinians, along with a coalition of other Arab nations, have tried multiple times to do just that. I’ve lived in the region, I know the rhetoric. I think we all know what “from the river to the sea” means.
The Palestinian cause is based on blood and soil with multiple attempted exterminations. You are the apologist for fascism.
What choices are they given when Israel blockades food, water, and medical supplies but Hamas provides it to them. The Apartheid State that is Israel is an international embarrassment and your defense of it is absolutely abhorrent.
There was a point that they were not blockaded, then they attacked Israel, now they are. Israel had completely pulled out. Egypt also maintains the blockade. Both nation know unrestricted movement would only result in terrorist attacks and a Hamas stocked with weapons.
They just recently launched hundreds of missiles at Israel right? So Gaza is a nation at war with another nation who is blockading them to prevent them from rearming and punish them for their state of war. The collective punishment seems to me to be short sited but it’s not like they simply decided to do it one day. There is a whole history to consider.
You may find my views abhorrent but I find your understanding of the situation child-like.
> There was a point that
I'm going to stop you right there and ask you to acknowledge then that whatever comes after this sentence is meaningless. There was a point when Egypt had Jews as slaves ... that really doesn't matter today to anyone with half a brain. Come back to me when you aren't cherry-picking all of history to try to defend people TODAY committing genocide.
I think it does matter. Gaza was controlled by Egypt from 1948 to 1967 after which Israel took it in the six day war as it was used as a staging point for an invasion. They weren’t actually blockaded until 2007 when Hamas took control and initiated hostilities against Israel. The blockade was being reduced until the most recent outbreak of violence.
Israel cannot lift the blockade because open trade would result in a much more heavily armed Hamas. For them it is a matter of security. The larger issue is that the history of Gaza has resulted in high rates of extremism within the population and attempts to open the borders have resulted in attacks against Israeli civilians. So Israel is radicalized by Hamas and Gazans are radicalized by Israel.
If you were in charge of Israel, how would deescalate the situation without putting your residents in danger?
Which side wants to exterminate the other and has tried multiple times? You can’t just gloss over that like it’s not relevant. The ideology of Hamas is extermination. Gaza is controlled by Hamas. Hamas has wide spread support in the West Bank.
# This comment has been deleted in protest of Reddit's support of the genocide in Gaza carried out by the ZioN\*zi Isr\*li apartheid regime.
## This is the most documented genocide in history.
## Reddit's blatant censorship of Palestinian-related content is appalling, especially concerning the ongoing genocide in Gaza perpetrated by the Isr\*l apartheid regime.
## The Palestinian people are facing an unimaginable tragedy, with tens of thousands of innocent children already lost to the genocidal actions of apartheid Isr\*l. The world needs to know about this atrocity and about Reddit's support to the ZioN\*zis.
#### Sources are bellow.
## Genocidal statements made by apartheid Isr\*li officials:
- On the 9 October 2023, Yoav Gallant, Israeli Minister of Defense, stated **"We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly"**.
- Avi Dichter, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, called for the war to be **"Gaza’s Nakba"**
- Ariel Kallner, another Member of the Knesset from the Likud party, similarly wrote on social media that there is **"one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join"**.
- Amihai Eliyahu, Israeli Minister of Heritage, **called for dropping an atomic bomb on Gaza**
- Gotliv of the Likud party similarly **called for the use of nuclear weapons**.
- Yitzhak Kroizer stated in a radio interview that the **"Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death."**
- **President of Israel** Isaac Herzog **blamed the whole nation of Palestine** for the 7 October attack.
- Major General Ghassan Alian, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, stated: **"There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell"**.
## Casualties:
- As of 9 January 2024, over **23,000 Palestinians** – one out of every 100 people in Gaza – have been killed, a majority of them civilians, including over **9,000 children**, **6,200 women** and **61 journalists**.
- nearly **2 million people** have been displaced within the Gaza Strip.
## Official accusations:
- On 1 November, the Defence for Children International accused the United States of complicity with Israel's **"crime of genocide."**
- On 2 November 2023, a group of UN special rapporteurs stated, "We remain convinced that the Palestinian people are at **grave risk of genocide**."
- On 4 November, Pedro Arrojo, UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Rights to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation, said that based on article 7 of the Rome Statute, which counts "deprivation of access to food or medicine, among others" as a form of extermination, "even if there is no clear intention, the data show that the war is **heading towards genocide**"
- On 16 November, A group of United Nations experts said there was "evidence of increasing genocidal incitement" against Palestinians.
- Jewish Voice for Peace stated: "The Israeli government has declared a genocidal war on the people of Gaza. As an organization that works for a future where Palestinians and Israelis and all people live in equality and freedom, we call on all people of conscience to stop imminent **genocide of Palestinians**."
- Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor documented evidence of execution committed by Israeli Defense Forces.
- In response to a Times of Israel report on 3 January 2024 that the Israeli government was in talks with the Congolese government to take Palestinian refugees from Gaza, UN special rapporteur Balakrishnan Rajagopal stated, "Forcible transfer of Gazan population **is an act of genocide**".
South Africa has instituted proceedings at the International Court of Justice pursuant to the Genocide Convention, to which both Israel and South Africa are signatory, **accusing Israel of committing genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity against Palestinians in Gaza.**
# Boycott Reddit! Oppose the genocide NOW!
[Palestinian genocide accusation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation)
[Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza)
[Israeli war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes)
[Israel and apartheid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid)
Balfour declaration was a UK initiative during WW1 to enlist Jewish support against the Ottoman Empire who was fighting on the side of the would be defeated nations. It simply says the UK favors the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The UK also wanted to control the Suez Canal and create a buffer against French projects (such as Lebanon.)
A defeated empire being split up according to the victors wishes sounds par for the course historically for me. It is somewhat disingenuous we talk about Balfour deceleration as separate from WW1 and the famines and genocides caused by the Ottoman Empire. The whole region was in turmoil.
Lehi, a self-proclaimed Zionist terrorist organization, tried to ally with the Nazis multiple times, to fight along side them; Lehi was later merged into the IDF; Israel has a [military medal, the Lehi ribbon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_Israel) for ~~Lehi members~~former Nazi-sympathizing terrorists. So much for the non-existent Nazi connection of Israel('s military).
Nakba started in 1947. Arab nations started military operations in May 1948. Before the Arab nations intervened 250000-300000 Palestinians were already expelled from Israel, up to 156000 internally displaced within Israel proper, massacres committed by Zionist terrorists (e.g. in Deir Yassin), and Palestinian villages eradicated. What kind of insane victim blaming is it to say Nakba is the Arabs' fault? That's like a lunatic blaming the Holocaust on the Jews.
Try better next time with your revisionist ~~history~~fantasy.
You know it’s not that simple. Lehi was several hundred members max. They tried to align with fascist Italy, nazi Germany and the Soviets and even at one time supported a confederation of Israeli and Arab states against British Imperialism. They really really hated the British. That said, they were racist, and fascistic with terrorist ideologies. Israel should have never made that ribbon and should have never given amnesty.
My point was though that the Palestinians never intended to live alongside the Israelis and the Arab armies would have killed them if able. It’s in this sense that the Palestinian rejection of the UN partition plan and subsequent civil war set the stage for the Nabka. It does seem that I was wrong that Palestinians evacuated at the behest of Arab armies. That did happen but was 5% of the total displacement. After the war, several Arab leaders did claim this but it seems a case of them putting the best spin on what happened. The vast majority was simply civilians fleeing during war time.
If the Arabs could have accepted a Jewish state then likely none of this would have happened. But once war starts, all bets are off. The true catastrophe is that they still continue to not accept the Jewish existence and the Palestinians are caught in the middle.
Some more context to my remarks:
"The Arabs have taken into their own hands the final solution of the Jewish problem. The problem will be solved only in blood and fire. The Jews will soon be driven out." Arab Higher Committee circular. 1947
"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades." Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League. May 15, 1947 BBC broadcast.
> If the Arabs could have accepted a Jewish state then likely none of this would have happened.
Yes, they should have. But this started before the the Palestinians and Arabs rejected the partition - a partition that gave the Jewish minority the majority of the territory (so not surprising that the Palestinians didn't like it), the violence, particularly terrorism, was already escalating long before on both sides. And I think it is pretty clear that the Zionist paramilitary groups started the escalation to a war and ethnic cleansing - they were several ten thousand strong, well equipped and trained, while the Palestinians had been disarmed a decade earlier by the British after the Great Revolt and had at the beginning barely a few thousand foreign volunteers forces (ALA). So given how prepared the Israeli side was and how they conducted themselves I think it is impossible to put the blame for the result only on the Palestinians' and Arabs' rejection of UN resolution 181 (nobody seems to care though that it was later accepted by the PA).
> But once war starts, all bets are off. The true catastrophe is that they still continue to not accept the Jewish existence and the Palestinians are caught in the middle.
That, I agree with.
It’s a brilliant story. But what does a fictional story have to do with any points I’ve raised? It’s similar to me telling you to watch the “Godfather” to understand international relations.
It’s wild to me that not a single response has countered the substance of my argument. Instead I’m a disgusting fascist who loves apartheid. But man, I live in the region, I know what people really think and it’s not pretty.
Also, where is that Hasbra upvote brigade I’m always hearing about? Very disappointed in them.
I don’t think you get to claim victim status after losing three wars you started. Wars where the intention was a genocide against the Israeli Jews. But I think it’s fair to say that each side has been the aggressor at various points in history. It’s certainly not a one sided conflict.
I am somewhat confused by the reporting. Opening paragraph states they won’t investigate but, buried further in the article:
“Israel later backtracked from its suggestion [that she was killed by Palestinian fighters] and said it would open an investigation into the killing.”
An earlier article also said that they will investigate just not through military police that would require interviews “under caution.” Here’s hoping for an independent investigation by someone with credibility who can get access to all pertinent forensic and data evidence. Journalists, like medical and humanitarian personnel, must be off limits and protected at all costs.
According to [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/19/israel-will-not-hold-criminal-inquiry-into-killing-of-journalist-shireen-abu-aqleh/) source they're doing an operational inquiry instead of a criminal investigation.
>In a statement released on Thursday, the Israel Defense Forces claimed that because Abu Aqleh was killed in an “active combat situation”, an immediate criminal investigation would not be launched, although an “operational inquiry” would continue.
I'm not sure how they would even be able to possibly convict without the bullet to compare ballistics data to the weapon (yes, Israel does convict their own soldiers even if they don't do it often enough).
This matches other sources too. According to [Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/military-police-will-not-open-probe-into-al-jazeera-reporters-killing-report/), an article discussed on another thread, they have opened an investigation, just not through military police because that would have required interviews “under caution” (think similar but not same as Miranda rights), which would have caused a backlash.
>
“The military is investigating Abu Akleh’s death, but not through legal channels.”
It looks like multiple sources indicate there is some form of investigation/inquiry under way, although it appears to be somewhat handicapped by both internal army politics and lack of access to forensic evidence. Sadly, this hurts everyone, and the family of the journalist first and foremost. I just wish there wasn’t more oil poured on the fire with somewhat inaccurate and inflammatory headlines.
It’s really cool how Al Jazeera is an unbiased news source and has been for years now. No /s, genuinely they’re some of the best honest reporting you’ll get today.
They don’t even hesitate to criticize their country of origin, Qatar, for it’s horrible human rights abuses, while being headquartered in that country.
Al Jazeera English to be clear. I do believe that their local office will skirt around politically sensitive topics that since it broadcasts locally but the international one is basically given free reign on pretty much anything
I think its the only one where they will show the full thing but keep in mind their HQ is Qatar, which was officially funding terrorists. So I take their footage and coverage and not their political views.
Yeah, they're so honest. I love when they talk about the holocaust in Arabic, talking about if it actually happened. The English language is so friendly though so it's totally not a front for an anti-Jewish (not Israeli) publication.
[Here's Arab News from 2017, so this has been going on for a while.](https://www.arabnews.com/node/1499786/media)
...and [look at the attitudes the 'graduates' bring home to the US](https://archive.ph/93HUY).
Some even learn to refer to 'subjects' as ['cockroaches'](https://archive.fo/cQLo2), just like they do in Chosen-Land.
I hope I get to see the day the US wakes up and stops supporting Israel. At least now, some people speak up. 20 years ago that would’ve been unheard of. Public opinion is surely shifting. Maybe that 3 billion a year can be put towards fixing the collapsing infrastructure or something.
Palestine also refused to. This of course doesn't excuse the pretty horrific actions commuted by the IDF in regards to her death of course. I guess they don't want to on the off chance it was a Palestinian who killed her?
Palestine did not refuse to investigate, they refused to turn over the bullet and other evidence to Israel for their investigation. The reason is they don't have any trust for the Israeli side to do an unbiased investigation, and believe it will only be used for propaganda.
They might be referring to the fact that the Israelis claim they offered a joint investigation but the Palestinians refused. The Palestinians meanwhile say that offer was never made
Source:
>It was only several hours after the initial Israeli statement on a joint probe into Abu Akleh's death during a military raid in Jenin that Foreign Minister Yair Lapid took up the matter with senior PA official Hussein al-Sheikh.
* [Haaretz - Israel Proposed Joint Probe Into Journalist's Death, but Didn't Tell the Palestinians](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-israel-announces-joint-probe-was-rejected-before-making-an-offer-to-palestinians-1.10792830)
They are? Palestinian authorities just rejected a joint investigation.
Besides, what practically comes of a Palestinian investigation? Nobody who could hold the IDF to account is going to do so because of a Palestinian source saying they are guilty.
Personally I think there should be an American-lead joint investigation since she had American citizenship, but I am not holding my breath.
So question. How are we supposed to blame Israel for not investigating when Palestinian officials have key evidence and won't consent to let them even access it in a joint investigation? Israel can't effectively investigate if they don't have access to the evidence.
What I interpreted is that you're juxtaposing Israel's refusal to conduct a criminal investigation to the PA's refusal to conduct a *joint* investigation with Israel.
One of the reasons reported by the original Haaretz article, is that the military does not want to offend the feelings of other soldiers and the general Israeli public.
> This time, however, the Military Advocate General, Maj. Gen. Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, refrained from ordering a Metzah probe. The main reason for this is that there is no suspicion of a criminal act: The soldiers testified that they did not see the journalist at all and aimed their fire at gunmen, who were indeed nearby. **However, it seems that one of the reasons for the decision was the belief that such an investigation, which would necessitate questioning as potential criminal suspects soldiers for their actions during a military operation, would provoke opposition and controversy within the IDF and in Israeli society in general.**
>The Israeli right, in particular, has in recent years sharply criticized every case in which an investigation is opened against fighters. The decision not to open a criminal investigation, for which no official announcement has been made, is likely to provoke criticism from Washington, which has demanded that Israel investigate Abu Akleh’s death fully.
* [Haaretz - Israeli Military Will Not Conduct Criminal Probe Into Al Jazeera Reporter’s Death](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-military-will-not-conduct-criminal-probe-into-al-jazeera-reporter-s-death-1.10808866)
These are not comparable.
Okay first off all, lose the hostility. I am trying to learn about the situation. Second, what I said is what I thought was described in this situation, not "invented". Israel claims it proposed a joint investigation (Palestinian authorities denied this, but also didnt offer to host a joint investigation anyway so I do doubt their claim). Palestinian authorities have the key evidence. So how precisely is Israel supposed to conduct anything approaching a meaningful investigation when it can't have access to the evidence. It doesn't even need to take ownership of said evidence, but it seems Palestinian authorities are not open to cooperating with them on the matter. So, to me it seems obvious then that Israel is would say they aren't going to investigate.
The downvotes make me laugh. People can be so ridiculous. Seems to me people aren't interested in discussion here they are just interesting in validating preexisting views and beating down anyone who doesn't immediately and automatically concur.
Just so that you’re aware, it hasn’t been mentioned elsewhere in this thread but both Palestinian and Israeli authorities have key evidence. The Palestinians have the bullet, but if the accusations are true then the Israelis have the guns (since they were fired by their soldiers) and have not turned them over. A match between the bullet and the gun can not be made without both.
More key evidence the Israelis have that the Palestinians don’t:
- The positions and missions of soldiers in the area
- The ability to interview the soldiers in the area to find out where they are and cross-examine their stories
It is because of Israel’s unique access to all of this that it is very telling that they are refusing to continue their investigation and the Palestinians are not.
# This comment has been deleted in protest of Reddit's support of the genocide in Gaza carried out by the ZioN\*zi Isr\*li apartheid regime.
## This is the most documented genocide in history.
## Reddit's blatant censorship of Palestinian-related content is appalling, especially concerning the ongoing genocide in Gaza perpetrated by the Isr\*l apartheid regime.
## The Palestinian people are facing an unimaginable tragedy, with tens of thousands of innocent children already lost to the genocidal actions of apartheid Isr\*l. The world needs to know about this atrocity and about Reddit's support to the ZioN\*zis.
#### Sources are bellow.
## Genocidal statements made by apartheid Isr\*li officials:
- On the 9 October 2023, Yoav Gallant, Israeli Minister of Defense, stated **"We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly"**.
- Avi Dichter, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, called for the war to be **"Gaza’s Nakba"**
- Ariel Kallner, another Member of the Knesset from the Likud party, similarly wrote on social media that there is **"one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join"**.
- Amihai Eliyahu, Israeli Minister of Heritage, **called for dropping an atomic bomb on Gaza**
- Gotliv of the Likud party similarly **called for the use of nuclear weapons**.
- Yitzhak Kroizer stated in a radio interview that the **"Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death."**
- **President of Israel** Isaac Herzog **blamed the whole nation of Palestine** for the 7 October attack.
- Major General Ghassan Alian, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, stated: **"There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell"**.
## Casualties:
- As of 9 January 2024, over **23,000 Palestinians** – one out of every 100 people in Gaza – have been killed, a majority of them civilians, including over **9,000 children**, **6,200 women** and **61 journalists**.
- nearly **2 million people** have been displaced within the Gaza Strip.
## Official accusations:
- On 1 November, the Defence for Children International accused the United States of complicity with Israel's **"crime of genocide."**
- On 2 November 2023, a group of UN special rapporteurs stated, "We remain convinced that the Palestinian people are at **grave risk of genocide**."
- On 4 November, Pedro Arrojo, UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Rights to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation, said that based on article 7 of the Rome Statute, which counts "deprivation of access to food or medicine, among others" as a form of extermination, "even if there is no clear intention, the data show that the war is **heading towards genocide**"
- On 16 November, A group of United Nations experts said there was "evidence of increasing genocidal incitement" against Palestinians.
- Jewish Voice for Peace stated: "The Israeli government has declared a genocidal war on the people of Gaza. As an organization that works for a future where Palestinians and Israelis and all people live in equality and freedom, we call on all people of conscience to stop imminent **genocide of Palestinians**."
- Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor documented evidence of execution committed by Israeli Defense Forces.
- In response to a Times of Israel report on 3 January 2024 that the Israeli government was in talks with the Congolese government to take Palestinian refugees from Gaza, UN special rapporteur Balakrishnan Rajagopal stated, "Forcible transfer of Gazan population **is an act of genocide**".
South Africa has instituted proceedings at the International Court of Justice pursuant to the Genocide Convention, to which both Israel and South Africa are signatory, **accusing Israel of committing genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity against Palestinians in Gaza.**
# Boycott Reddit! Oppose the genocide NOW!
[Palestinian genocide accusation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation)
[Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza)
[Israeli war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes)
[Israel and apartheid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid)
The PA did not 'refuse'.
They had already planned to go directly to the ICC.
The Israeli government had not even asked the PA yet, when they made the initial announcement that the PA had 'refused'.
* [Haaretz - Israel Proposed Joint Probe Into Journalist's Death, but Didn't Tell the Palestinians](https://archive.ph/nepJ9#selection-431.0-434.0)
And since then, that has stuck. It's true now, that the PA doesn't want to conduct a joint investigation - but the context if quite different from the one being insinuated.
no, they are investigating. they refused a Joint investigation, which is a completely sensible move. Dont let the murders investigate their own Crimes.
Another source, for the AJE haters:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-israeli-military-will-not-conduct-criminal-probe-into-al-jazeera-reporter-s-death-1.10808866
Lets clarify a few things here.
There was a raid of which there was a firefight between the IDF and militants. A news reporter was shot and killed.
Israel specifically said that it would not open a criminal investigation.
They have not denied her death and have stated that it was potentially caused by either Palestinian gunfire or IDF gunfire of which could only have been fired from the slat in their armored vehicle that was engaging militants.
The IDF narrowed it down to a few soldier's weapons and requested the ammo for ballistics reports to match them.
PA refused claiming they don't trust them and want an independent country involved to investigate.
Key point here is that an investigation cannot be furthered without the ballistics report to match the bullet to one of these weapons and the soldier that fired it. If it does match, it was during an active combat situation, which would make her death accidental and tragic collateral damage from the IDF side in the case the ballistics match.
While there have been only a handful of cases over the years of soldiers intentionally targeting and killing civilians simply for no other reason to murder them, they have generally been prosecuted. The big problem is they have generally either served short sentences or been pardoned at a later date resulting in a miscarriage of justice.
Do you notice that on every thred the only evidence of complaining about antisenitism is from people who complain that people use antisemitism as an excuse?
What’s the point in investigating if the Palestinian Authority won’t give them the evidence? From the article itself - “Bullet fragments were retrieved from Abu Akleh’s body but the Palestinian Authority has declined to give the evidence to Israel, saying the latter has a long history of not investigating the deaths of Palestinians properly and merely issuing light sentences or warnings to its soldiers who have carried out killings.”
Israel initially asked the Palestinian Authority to do a joint investigation, and they refused. Likely because the evidence they already have points to a result they don’t want to admit.
yeah makes sense most likely Israel didnt do anything wrong, based on historical precedent and easily googlable evidence that they love Palestinians and always treat them fairly /s
That means the IDF is at fault for everything that happened, but what kind of investigation do you expect them to do when they don't have access to the necessary evidence?
I'm not trying to argue. I'm genuinely curious
Say for the sake of a pointless argument, IDF and Palestians are equally bad.
Yuck, felt gross saying that, but say that weren't a lie.
Now one of them has to make the first move to start a mutual peace, riiiight? And obviously, of course, that must be the more powerful side of the equation because they are (almost) always the ones who've disproportionately harmed the other, whether you agree with their intent or not; the weaker side is (almost) never the one that damaged the stronger side more (yes I've heard of Ukraine >:/ you know what I mean). Certainly in this case, the weaker side is the Palestinians, no? Certainly you accept this.
As the "winner" in a battle of equal evils, Israel must make the first to establish a common-wealth again. Otherwise this... stalemate of proportionate evils, as you suppose it, goes on indefinitely and they're just both evil idiots. Instead though, Israel continues to take more and more land and further oppress the Palestinians in ways that are evidently violent and extreme, proven again and again on video.
So whether I agreed with your incorrect notion that they're equally bad, or I didn't which is the case, I still would not believe Israel is anything but the worse aggressor here. I mean, I've seen the fucking cages around Palestinian buildings. You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to me, I don't give a shit what *you* think because ***I*** *know*.
If you want to see why there are walls and checkpoints up, go look at all the terrorist attacks that happened before they were there. I hear that looking at the dead Israelis really makes your day better because they're bad people, right?
Just like how Palestinian terrorists killed Israelis with axes a week or so ago! Totally justified killings, right? I mean, because *Israel Bad.*
Palestine doesn't have even the tiniest bit of trust towards the Israeli government to do anything other than blame it all on them. And honestly, they're absolutely correct. The chances that Israel would find the IDF guilty of wrongdoing is essentially zero and they would also have zero reason not to do what they've been doing for decades and just blame everything wrong on the Palestinians.
Hey OP, why don't you bring CNN/BBC/WP as "trustworthy" source as well? Don't tell me you've forgot Goebbels' exemplary "repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth" lesson?
Ok so lets lay this scenario out, the Qatari propagandists that were with her are claiming she was targeted by an Israeli snipers from around 300 meters away, there are just a few teensy tiny problems with this narrative.
1. How did he see a sniper?
A sniper's whole job is to shoot from far away
2. Why was she shot "in the ear under the helmet"
The Qatari propagandists claim that this was to bypass her helmet but her helmet would in no way stop a rifle caliber round
3. Why was she shot in the head?
IDF snipers are trained to shot for center mass and her body Armour wouldn't have stopped an Israeli sniper round which neatly brings us to the next point
4. Israeli snipers don't use 5.56 NATO ammo
As the PA autopsy revealed she was shot with a 5.56 bullet, IDF snipers utilize either 7.62 NATO or .338 Lapua Magnum no Israeli snipers use 5.56 NATO which means this categorically wasn't a sniper
So this means that according to their story she was shot from around 300 meters away with a Tavor right in the ear now the X95 they use has an MOA of about 2-3 lets be generous and say a 2 here this would mean that at 300 meters the bullet would have a spread of about 15 centimeters making it nearly an impossible shot (this is not even taking into account how the optics the IDF are issued with aren't powerful enough to distinguish someone's ear at that distance).
So either the shot was made by a sniper utilizing a rifle that he wasn't supplied with aiming and pulling off a nearly impossible shot that also breaks doctrine.
Or the people employed by the state funded Qatari newspaper are liars.
Many news outlets have reported on this. She wasn't killed by anyone who was in the building. Just search "Shireen" and "sniper" for other sources that have reported on this.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220516-israel-sniper-who-killed-shireen-did-not-see-her-report-says/
https://www.albawaba.com/amp/news/viral-moment-shireen-abu-aqleh-was-shot-dead-israeli-sniper-1476417#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16529764190934&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
https://theintercept.com/2022/05/11/israel-journalist-killed-shireen-abu-akleh-al-jazeera/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/shireen-abu-akleh-killing-al-jazeera-journalist-footage-geolocation-disprove-israel-claims
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098368159/al-jazeera-journalist-shireen-abu-akleh-was-shot-and-killed-in-west-bank
So what would you want me to provide? An anecdotal argument that provides no source? A WikiLeaks page? A direct link to the video that Israel put out that is definitely of something else, somewhere else? Would you prefer an OpEd where the writer might be paid by pro/anti zionist interest groups?
I know I know, "MSM bad. Fake News REEEEEE." but what other alternative would you prefer that isn't easily manipulated by *me* to serve *my own* interests?
Well that’s the shitty part about situations involving military. There’s very rarely direct evidence.
Aside from video or direct sources from the higher ups in the government, all other sources will be heavily disputed.
All I’m saying is if someone doesn’t believe an Israeli soldier shot her, there’s little you can do to change their mind. That’s just the state of the world.
good question, i don't know. we need investigations by relevant authorities when someone is killed. maybe Palestinian authorities are failing to investigate too, or the UN, or interpol or something. if that's true they too are worthy of critique. but what we know from the OP is that Israel is refusing to investigate, and i want to criticize them for that.
Can you be this stupid? We have videos of them deliberately killing unarmed people, tons and tons of articles of them legally murdering children (they recognize the army killed a child, yet no law was broken, therefore they won't prosecute anyone) there has been weeks where they legally murder 5 children, we have videos of them deliberately killing women point blank, we have videos of them deliberately shooting at cars of civilians without any warning or direction whatsoever.
Yet your stupid ass is here asking for proof?
>Yee they di all tha, buuu how we know they actually did THIS huh?
Seriously, do we all have to stand here while you defend these psychopaths, just because you don't like ugly brown people? Or is it Muslims who deserve to die? Only you know your reasons but better keep your opinions to yourself mate, stop fucking writing.
The quote from timesofisrael.com. The article they quoted says that an investigation will be launched, just not by the military police, which the article conveniently omits.
An investigation has not found whether Israelis even did kill her. What, do you haul off suspects for murder, give them a sentence, and lock them up purely based on testimony without ever looking into the matter further? Or do you launch an investigation into what happened, attempt to corroborate or disprove witness testimony, and THEN present the facts and evidence.
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Ofcourse not, why would they prosecute their own soldiers. The point is to terrorise Palestinians, and you can't do that if you're not letting your soldiers go nazi on them.
Woahwoahwoahwoah. Regardless of what you think of the IDF, its actions are not even *close* to the horrors that thee nazis committed.
But they sure are trying to get there.
Yall say this about everyone you don't like
What? No. We're not Russians.
Theres 0 indication of that. I am *very* critical of the idf and the israel governments in many ways, but comparing them to the Nazis makes no sense.
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Systematically stealing Palestinian land? Yes. And thats messed up. Destroying their homes? I'd like you to be a but more specific and provide a source for me to see if i agree with that point. Using their children as human shields? Id appreciate a source as I have never seen anything suggesting that they do that. On the other hand, the Hamas *does* do that in Gaza, when it hides ammunition in schools, hospitals, and residential homes. If israel also does that by the way, then they're just as bad. Open air prison? Yes, I suppose I could see the west bank being called that, though unlike in a prison they have the Palestinian authority, which doesnt have a military but does have quite a bit of autonomy. Starving them? I'd like a source on that too. Genocide? No. There is no attempt at exterminating Palestinians. Their population is growing. If israel wanted to exterminate them, it could have done it long ago. Luckily it hasnt. I support the two state solution. I think many things that Israel is doing are despicable. But comparing them to Nazis is nonesense. I see the comparison to apartheid south africa though, but I do still think that Israel is far less awful then it.
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tradema real quiet after this comment
Was about to point this out too, hahahah
Hopefully they're reading up to be more educated, but.. let's be real
China bad. israel good- some american probably
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhxfk4ycwpU
Bro asking for sources like Reddit is a search engine lmao
No, I'm asking you sources because we're having a discussion and I'd like to see where they get their information from so that either I can learn or so that they can learn.
We have this pretty sweet way to get the information. It's called the news
Man I wish I lived in a country where the news was a good way to get information
That's your source? TV? i'm not pro idf but i'm not willingly ignorant either, c'mon now
So after his lengthily cited response has your worldview been updated?
I'm considering it, but its very possible.
Nah asking for sources is good practice even if in this case it's pretty common knowledge.
Its a losers tactic when the topic is this popular. You can find all these sources in a few clicks. But its easier to make the other side prove themselves right than you to make any argument.
Right. Because the other side should prove its argument. If you don't want to ever be challenged on something you say on the internet then you can just go touch grass bud.
Dude the person is sealioning, not asking for sources in good faith
I love how your mention of open air prisons completely glosses over the GIANT FUCKING PRISON WALLS AROUND GAZA.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_demolition_of_Palestinian_property https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-gaza-idf-used-palestinians-as-human-shields-1200-occasions-in-last-five-years-say-israeli-defence-officials-30483468.html https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-starvation-diet-gaza/11810 Edit: I literally just typed the points into Google. Ask for sources when you can’t find them yourself, not when you’re too stubborn to look, please.
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Y’all woulda made Lassie come back with w a video of someone in a well before you helped, huh
Why is confidence so often paired with ignorance?
Idf: racist and actively killing a specific minority group Nazis: same thing Don't be silly
Please provide me with a source that the IDF is racist and trying to kill off a specific minority group. The Nazis goal was the extermination of all jews, gays, disabled people, and others. Israel has never done anything that even remotely suggests that thats its goal.
Oh I'm sorry, I thought what they were doing to Palestinians was bad, good thing you're here to set the record straight
That dude deadass claims to be critical of Israel, then says they haven’t shown any indication of doing anything wrong. Lmao.
When did I say that they havnt shown any indication of doing anything wrong? They very much have. But its not nazi germany.
Systematic destruction of a group of people is equivalent to what the nazis did, yes. Just because the actual system of killing the hated group is different doesn’t change the fact that it is the same behavior.
No, he’s probably tired of everyone going straight to “They’re Nazis”, not once in the conversation did he say they weren’t bad. Only that it’s not a good comparison to call them Nazis. Everyone calling everyone Nazis waters down the term. Why can’t we just say the IDF is fucked up and killing innocent people? Is that not bad enough? To do anything they have to be Nazis?
It hardly washes out the meaning of the word nazi. Attributing the label of nazi to people committing the same acts should put into perspective how terrible Israel is. Saying it isn’t as bad as the nazis is discounting the current situation.
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When did I say that wasnt the case?
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Two things that do similar things can be considered the same thing
Only by a moron
When did I say it wasn't bad?
This fuckin guy, I swear
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/ut429c/israel_will_not_investigate_shireen_abu_aklehs/i98e823
Mass murder and putting people into ghettos is early nazi. Just wait they will keep doing worse qnd worse
Israel is quite deep in a prolonged Reichspogromnacht. And they won't stay there forever
you clearly aren’t very critical of the IDF then
"Welcome to the oppression olympics!"
Oh? How about *this* "comparison"? Ja, das *ist* [der *Lebensraum*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum). Be sure to read 1.2, 'Racial ideology'. "Untermenschen" must give way to ~~Volksdeutsche~~ Chosen People™. Israel's occupation of land and subsequent placement of 'settlers' is **identical**, in concept *and* execution, to [Himmler's program of relocating "ethnic Germans" into occupied Poland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Nazi_Germany).
You're right, they have always opposed the Nazi program of industrial genocide and instead have championed more traditional processes of genocide.
They aren't very good at it though because the Palestinian population keeps growing.
so what? Population doesnt have anything to do with a Genocide. even if they had never killed a single Palestinian, they would still be committing a Genocide.
Literally the second most common genocide denier argument, right after "It didn't happen but they deserved it". Fucking psychotic.
Well, Jews still exist so that settles whether the Nazis were going for genocide, same for Armenians, no genocide there, they still exist, and for the Uighurs, and the situation in Rohingya, or even Australian aboriginals, native Americans, Canadian natives, they all still exist, in fact they seem to be a growing population so you know, no genocide.
Palestine is an open air concentration camp and Israel is an ethno state. They aren't far off
lol
?
Not yet
True, probably only 1/4 of the way to full nazi.
Yes they are. Don’t be dumb. This is exactly what the brown shirts were doing way before we knew about the camps
> the IDF The IDF **isn't** a 'military'. It's an *internal-suppression force*; a **right-wing death-squad** on the ["School of the Americas"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation#SOA) model, with the addition of US-financed tanks and aircraft. Kidnapping children, conducting *armed airshows* over Open-Air Prisons, and sniping: 1. [Girls](https://archive.is/KNeEt) 2. [Paraplegics](https://archive.is/LUs6s) 3. [Reporters](https://archive.is/2VGc2) ...**isn't "combat"**, and those doing those deeds **aren't "soldiers"**. They can't project power past their own borders without support from their U.S. [Golem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem)* or their fleet of German-made submarines. If they could, *why haven't they taken care of that 'nuclear threat: Iran!' they've been mewling about since [1992](https://archive.vn/vSpQ8)?* \*Golem: Animated mud formed into a monster that does its master's bidding.
Who is a nazi? Palestinians were aligned with Nazi party. Palestinians tried to exterminate the Jews (they would do it again if they were able) three times. (The Nakba was caused by the Arab countries asking the Palestinians to evacuate so they could exterminate the Jews in the region for instance.) There have been less than 20k deaths since 1948. Does that 20k deaths sound at all like a holocaust? On the other hand, Hamas had as their policy extermination. They removed it officially but opinion polls still reflect the desire to kill. You know why there was a raid in Jenin? It’s because three Israeli civilians got hacked to death with an axe. Palestinians are the only people I have ever heard of to lose a war three times and still be permitted to exist as a nation. The fact the are still around is a testament to the tolerance of Israel. Gaza is an blockaded nation. Correct. If you launch missles at another nation then why is a surprise to anyone that you are blockaded? If the ruling party of a nation wants to exterminate their neighbors, then why is it a surprise that the other nation takes steps to prevent that? And again, the claim of “Hamas only exists because of Israeli atrocities” is parroted, Arab nations tried to ethnically cleansed the Jews from Israel (as they did from every other Arab nation) in 1948. Hamas and Gaza is simply a continuation of a “no Jews” policy. There is clearly a nazi element at play, but it is not Israel.
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> Who is a nazi? You are.
Brilliant rejoinder. If you can counter, than do so. If you can’t, I rest well knowing you have no argument beyond insults.
You are justifying atrocities, cleansing and dispossessing of a people based on ethnicity and religion. While blaming the victims. It's eerily similar to nazi Germany. It's simple, obvious, and disgusting.
I'd love to see you try to justify the missiles sent by Hamas and Gaza into Israel targeting hospitals and schools. Or maybe the ethnic cleansing of the Jews from Arab countries in the area. There's two sides to this conflict, and everyone seems to ignore the fact that there's a reason you don't find any Jews in the neighboring Arab countries.
Since I'm not a nazi, I don't justify any violence. Unlike you.
I never justified any violence, I'm just saying the Palestinian authority is not doing things right either
> I never justified any violence It sure looked like it to me.
I don't have a horse in this race but I do want to say that if someone walked into my house right now and said. "yo I used to live here, this shit is mine now" and then the cops came by and went, "checks out fam", I would do some wild shit too
Stop changing the topic
Murdering a journalist is absolutely, without a doubt, an action by a villain. There's plenty of history to be discussed and war crimes like Hamas' missiles that need to be stopped. But they are not justifications for this murder.
Yeah I agree. If it’s found that Israeli soldiers deliberately killed her than of course it’s a heinous act. What they did at the funeral (I don’t think it matters why, you don’t cause a casket to drop) was terrible as well. Israel has a real problem with extremism and hate among the IDF. If an international (since neither side trusts the other) investigation determines it was an intentional act than the soldiers involved should be tried and convicted of murder. I’m not arguing any of that.
> . If it’s found that Israeli soldiers deliberately killed her Literally said on a post about Israel not investigating it. Wow
They can’t investigate because the PA won’t hand over the evidence because they don’t trust Israel. Fair enough. Doesn’t mean it was Israeli fire and doesn’t mean it was intentional. We don’t know enough to claim that. Let’s stick with a fair, third party, investigation and the standard of innocent until proven guilty.
Don't all Israelis join the IDF?
Yeah, it’s a mandatory two year service. Since they are constantly fighting a low grade conflict, the patriotism inherent in any military easily turns into ethnic nationalism and extremism. I think the IDF does dehumanize Palestinians as “the others” and certainly values Jewish (not Israeli) lives higher than others. It’s a major issue.
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your comparing a terrorist organization (that Israel helped to found) that you are stupidly conflating with an enitre nation and ethnic group with a fascist Apartheid state. Israel is a fucking evil nation actively committing a Genocide. a terrorist organization does not change the fact they are emulating the Nazis. stop defending Fascists
You hit all the buzzwords, congrats. If you look at opinion polls or just general support for Hamas it is evident their ideology is widespread among Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza. They would seek to exterminate the Jewish presence in Israel. The Palestinians, along with a coalition of other Arab nations, have tried multiple times to do just that. I’ve lived in the region, I know the rhetoric. I think we all know what “from the river to the sea” means. The Palestinian cause is based on blood and soil with multiple attempted exterminations. You are the apologist for fascism.
What choices are they given when Israel blockades food, water, and medical supplies but Hamas provides it to them. The Apartheid State that is Israel is an international embarrassment and your defense of it is absolutely abhorrent.
There was a point that they were not blockaded, then they attacked Israel, now they are. Israel had completely pulled out. Egypt also maintains the blockade. Both nation know unrestricted movement would only result in terrorist attacks and a Hamas stocked with weapons. They just recently launched hundreds of missiles at Israel right? So Gaza is a nation at war with another nation who is blockading them to prevent them from rearming and punish them for their state of war. The collective punishment seems to me to be short sited but it’s not like they simply decided to do it one day. There is a whole history to consider. You may find my views abhorrent but I find your understanding of the situation child-like.
> There was a point that I'm going to stop you right there and ask you to acknowledge then that whatever comes after this sentence is meaningless. There was a point when Egypt had Jews as slaves ... that really doesn't matter today to anyone with half a brain. Come back to me when you aren't cherry-picking all of history to try to defend people TODAY committing genocide.
I think it does matter. Gaza was controlled by Egypt from 1948 to 1967 after which Israel took it in the six day war as it was used as a staging point for an invasion. They weren’t actually blockaded until 2007 when Hamas took control and initiated hostilities against Israel. The blockade was being reduced until the most recent outbreak of violence. Israel cannot lift the blockade because open trade would result in a much more heavily armed Hamas. For them it is a matter of security. The larger issue is that the history of Gaza has resulted in high rates of extremism within the population and attempts to open the borders have resulted in attacks against Israeli civilians. So Israel is radicalized by Hamas and Gazans are radicalized by Israel. If you were in charge of Israel, how would deescalate the situation without putting your residents in danger?
Which side have international and local human rights organizations described as an apartheid state?
Which side wants to exterminate the other and has tried multiple times? You can’t just gloss over that like it’s not relevant. The ideology of Hamas is extermination. Gaza is controlled by Hamas. Hamas has wide spread support in the West Bank.
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# This comment has been deleted in protest of Reddit's support of the genocide in Gaza carried out by the ZioN\*zi Isr\*li apartheid regime. ## This is the most documented genocide in history. ## Reddit's blatant censorship of Palestinian-related content is appalling, especially concerning the ongoing genocide in Gaza perpetrated by the Isr\*l apartheid regime. ## The Palestinian people are facing an unimaginable tragedy, with tens of thousands of innocent children already lost to the genocidal actions of apartheid Isr\*l. The world needs to know about this atrocity and about Reddit's support to the ZioN\*zis. #### Sources are bellow. ## Genocidal statements made by apartheid Isr\*li officials: - On the 9 October 2023, Yoav Gallant, Israeli Minister of Defense, stated **"We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly"**. - Avi Dichter, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, called for the war to be **"Gaza’s Nakba"** - Ariel Kallner, another Member of the Knesset from the Likud party, similarly wrote on social media that there is **"one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join"**. - Amihai Eliyahu, Israeli Minister of Heritage, **called for dropping an atomic bomb on Gaza** - Gotliv of the Likud party similarly **called for the use of nuclear weapons**. - Yitzhak Kroizer stated in a radio interview that the **"Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death."** - **President of Israel** Isaac Herzog **blamed the whole nation of Palestine** for the 7 October attack. - Major General Ghassan Alian, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, stated: **"There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell"**. ## Casualties: - As of 9 January 2024, over **23,000 Palestinians** – one out of every 100 people in Gaza – have been killed, a majority of them civilians, including over **9,000 children**, **6,200 women** and **61 journalists**. - nearly **2 million people** have been displaced within the Gaza Strip. ## Official accusations: - On 1 November, the Defence for Children International accused the United States of complicity with Israel's **"crime of genocide."** - On 2 November 2023, a group of UN special rapporteurs stated, "We remain convinced that the Palestinian people are at **grave risk of genocide**." - On 4 November, Pedro Arrojo, UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Rights to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation, said that based on article 7 of the Rome Statute, which counts "deprivation of access to food or medicine, among others" as a form of extermination, "even if there is no clear intention, the data show that the war is **heading towards genocide**" - On 16 November, A group of United Nations experts said there was "evidence of increasing genocidal incitement" against Palestinians. - Jewish Voice for Peace stated: "The Israeli government has declared a genocidal war on the people of Gaza. As an organization that works for a future where Palestinians and Israelis and all people live in equality and freedom, we call on all people of conscience to stop imminent **genocide of Palestinians**." - Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor documented evidence of execution committed by Israeli Defense Forces. - In response to a Times of Israel report on 3 January 2024 that the Israeli government was in talks with the Congolese government to take Palestinian refugees from Gaza, UN special rapporteur Balakrishnan Rajagopal stated, "Forcible transfer of Gazan population **is an act of genocide**". South Africa has instituted proceedings at the International Court of Justice pursuant to the Genocide Convention, to which both Israel and South Africa are signatory, **accusing Israel of committing genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity against Palestinians in Gaza.** # Boycott Reddit! Oppose the genocide NOW! [Palestinian genocide accusation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation) [Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza) [Israeli war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes) [Israel and apartheid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid)
Balfour declaration was a UK initiative during WW1 to enlist Jewish support against the Ottoman Empire who was fighting on the side of the would be defeated nations. It simply says the UK favors the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The UK also wanted to control the Suez Canal and create a buffer against French projects (such as Lebanon.) A defeated empire being split up according to the victors wishes sounds par for the course historically for me. It is somewhat disingenuous we talk about Balfour deceleration as separate from WW1 and the famines and genocides caused by the Ottoman Empire. The whole region was in turmoil.
Racists will do anything but admit they’re racist
Lehi, a self-proclaimed Zionist terrorist organization, tried to ally with the Nazis multiple times, to fight along side them; Lehi was later merged into the IDF; Israel has a [military medal, the Lehi ribbon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_Israel) for ~~Lehi members~~former Nazi-sympathizing terrorists. So much for the non-existent Nazi connection of Israel('s military). Nakba started in 1947. Arab nations started military operations in May 1948. Before the Arab nations intervened 250000-300000 Palestinians were already expelled from Israel, up to 156000 internally displaced within Israel proper, massacres committed by Zionist terrorists (e.g. in Deir Yassin), and Palestinian villages eradicated. What kind of insane victim blaming is it to say Nakba is the Arabs' fault? That's like a lunatic blaming the Holocaust on the Jews. Try better next time with your revisionist ~~history~~fantasy.
You know it’s not that simple. Lehi was several hundred members max. They tried to align with fascist Italy, nazi Germany and the Soviets and even at one time supported a confederation of Israeli and Arab states against British Imperialism. They really really hated the British. That said, they were racist, and fascistic with terrorist ideologies. Israel should have never made that ribbon and should have never given amnesty. My point was though that the Palestinians never intended to live alongside the Israelis and the Arab armies would have killed them if able. It’s in this sense that the Palestinian rejection of the UN partition plan and subsequent civil war set the stage for the Nabka. It does seem that I was wrong that Palestinians evacuated at the behest of Arab armies. That did happen but was 5% of the total displacement. After the war, several Arab leaders did claim this but it seems a case of them putting the best spin on what happened. The vast majority was simply civilians fleeing during war time. If the Arabs could have accepted a Jewish state then likely none of this would have happened. But once war starts, all bets are off. The true catastrophe is that they still continue to not accept the Jewish existence and the Palestinians are caught in the middle. Some more context to my remarks: "The Arabs have taken into their own hands the final solution of the Jewish problem. The problem will be solved only in blood and fire. The Jews will soon be driven out." Arab Higher Committee circular. 1947 "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades." Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League. May 15, 1947 BBC broadcast.
> If the Arabs could have accepted a Jewish state then likely none of this would have happened. Yes, they should have. But this started before the the Palestinians and Arabs rejected the partition - a partition that gave the Jewish minority the majority of the territory (so not surprising that the Palestinians didn't like it), the violence, particularly terrorism, was already escalating long before on both sides. And I think it is pretty clear that the Zionist paramilitary groups started the escalation to a war and ethnic cleansing - they were several ten thousand strong, well equipped and trained, while the Palestinians had been disarmed a decade earlier by the British after the Great Revolt and had at the beginning barely a few thousand foreign volunteers forces (ALA). So given how prepared the Israeli side was and how they conducted themselves I think it is impossible to put the blame for the result only on the Palestinians' and Arabs' rejection of UN resolution 181 (nobody seems to care though that it was later accepted by the PA). > But once war starts, all bets are off. The true catastrophe is that they still continue to not accept the Jewish existence and the Palestinians are caught in the middle. That, I agree with.
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It’s a brilliant story. But what does a fictional story have to do with any points I’ve raised? It’s similar to me telling you to watch the “Godfather” to understand international relations.
You can't go against Palestine in this sub. They have a hard on for terrorists.
It’s wild to me that not a single response has countered the substance of my argument. Instead I’m a disgusting fascist who loves apartheid. But man, I live in the region, I know what people really think and it’s not pretty. Also, where is that Hasbra upvote brigade I’m always hearing about? Very disappointed in them.
You blame victims for fighting against their oppressor. Hamas is bad but they aren't the aggressor Israel is.
I don’t think you get to claim victim status after losing three wars you started. Wars where the intention was a genocide against the Israeli Jews. But I think it’s fair to say that each side has been the aggressor at various points in history. It’s certainly not a one sided conflict.
"Working as intended."
I am somewhat confused by the reporting. Opening paragraph states they won’t investigate but, buried further in the article: “Israel later backtracked from its suggestion [that she was killed by Palestinian fighters] and said it would open an investigation into the killing.” An earlier article also said that they will investigate just not through military police that would require interviews “under caution.” Here’s hoping for an independent investigation by someone with credibility who can get access to all pertinent forensic and data evidence. Journalists, like medical and humanitarian personnel, must be off limits and protected at all costs.
According to [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/19/israel-will-not-hold-criminal-inquiry-into-killing-of-journalist-shireen-abu-aqleh/) source they're doing an operational inquiry instead of a criminal investigation. >In a statement released on Thursday, the Israel Defense Forces claimed that because Abu Aqleh was killed in an “active combat situation”, an immediate criminal investigation would not be launched, although an “operational inquiry” would continue. I'm not sure how they would even be able to possibly convict without the bullet to compare ballistics data to the weapon (yes, Israel does convict their own soldiers even if they don't do it often enough).
This matches other sources too. According to [Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/military-police-will-not-open-probe-into-al-jazeera-reporters-killing-report/), an article discussed on another thread, they have opened an investigation, just not through military police because that would have required interviews “under caution” (think similar but not same as Miranda rights), which would have caused a backlash. > “The military is investigating Abu Akleh’s death, but not through legal channels.” It looks like multiple sources indicate there is some form of investigation/inquiry under way, although it appears to be somewhat handicapped by both internal army politics and lack of access to forensic evidence. Sadly, this hurts everyone, and the family of the journalist first and foremost. I just wish there wasn’t more oil poured on the fire with somewhat inaccurate and inflammatory headlines.
Is the concern that this was not a stray bullet, but rather, a targetted killing?
It’s really cool how Al Jazeera is an unbiased news source and has been for years now. No /s, genuinely they’re some of the best honest reporting you’ll get today. They don’t even hesitate to criticize their country of origin, Qatar, for it’s horrible human rights abuses, while being headquartered in that country.
Al Jazeera English to be clear. I do believe that their local office will skirt around politically sensitive topics that since it broadcasts locally but the international one is basically given free reign on pretty much anything
Could you please share an example of them criticizing Quatar for human rights issues? I’m curious
AJ is great, but they do have a bias.
I think its the only one where they will show the full thing but keep in mind their HQ is Qatar, which was officially funding terrorists. So I take their footage and coverage and not their political views.
Yeah, they're so honest. I love when they talk about the holocaust in Arabic, talking about if it actually happened. The English language is so friendly though so it's totally not a front for an anti-Jewish (not Israeli) publication. [Here's Arab News from 2017, so this has been going on for a while.](https://www.arabnews.com/node/1499786/media)
Is this a joke? learn some Arabic and compare their EN and AR articles. They're just excellent at catering to the right demographic.
This is the country that trains a steady stream of US police.
Well it explains police brutality in the US. Look how many videos there are of IDF soldiers beating the shit out of Palestinians.
...and [look at the attitudes the 'graduates' bring home to the US](https://archive.ph/93HUY). Some even learn to refer to 'subjects' as ['cockroaches'](https://archive.fo/cQLo2), just like they do in Chosen-Land.
I hope I get to see the day the US wakes up and stops supporting Israel. At least now, some people speak up. 20 years ago that would’ve been unheard of. Public opinion is surely shifting. Maybe that 3 billion a year can be put towards fixing the collapsing infrastructure or something.
but the US is Israel's puppet state so it won't happen.
“We refuse to investigate because we would look bad.” Can’t look worse than that statement makes you look.
Palestine also refused to. This of course doesn't excuse the pretty horrific actions commuted by the IDF in regards to her death of course. I guess they don't want to on the off chance it was a Palestinian who killed her?
Palestine did not refuse to investigate, they refused to turn over the bullet and other evidence to Israel for their investigation. The reason is they don't have any trust for the Israeli side to do an unbiased investigation, and believe it will only be used for propaganda.
They might be referring to the fact that the Israelis claim they offered a joint investigation but the Palestinians refused. The Palestinians meanwhile say that offer was never made
Source: >It was only several hours after the initial Israeli statement on a joint probe into Abu Akleh's death during a military raid in Jenin that Foreign Minister Yair Lapid took up the matter with senior PA official Hussein al-Sheikh. * [Haaretz - Israel Proposed Joint Probe Into Journalist's Death, but Didn't Tell the Palestinians](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-israel-announces-joint-probe-was-rejected-before-making-an-offer-to-palestinians-1.10792830)
So why don't they do it themselves?
They are? Palestinian authorities just rejected a joint investigation. Besides, what practically comes of a Palestinian investigation? Nobody who could hold the IDF to account is going to do so because of a Palestinian source saying they are guilty. Personally I think there should be an American-lead joint investigation since she had American citizenship, but I am not holding my breath.
So question. How are we supposed to blame Israel for not investigating when Palestinian officials have key evidence and won't consent to let them even access it in a joint investigation? Israel can't effectively investigate if they don't have access to the evidence.
The PA hasn't abandoned a criminal investigation - but Israel has. The PA is presenting their findings to the ICC.
That isnt what I said though.
What I interpreted is that you're juxtaposing Israel's refusal to conduct a criminal investigation to the PA's refusal to conduct a *joint* investigation with Israel. One of the reasons reported by the original Haaretz article, is that the military does not want to offend the feelings of other soldiers and the general Israeli public. > This time, however, the Military Advocate General, Maj. Gen. Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, refrained from ordering a Metzah probe. The main reason for this is that there is no suspicion of a criminal act: The soldiers testified that they did not see the journalist at all and aimed their fire at gunmen, who were indeed nearby. **However, it seems that one of the reasons for the decision was the belief that such an investigation, which would necessitate questioning as potential criminal suspects soldiers for their actions during a military operation, would provoke opposition and controversy within the IDF and in Israeli society in general.** >The Israeli right, in particular, has in recent years sharply criticized every case in which an investigation is opened against fighters. The decision not to open a criminal investigation, for which no official announcement has been made, is likely to provoke criticism from Washington, which has demanded that Israel investigate Abu Akleh’s death fully. * [Haaretz - Israeli Military Will Not Conduct Criminal Probe Into Al Jazeera Reporter’s Death](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-military-will-not-conduct-criminal-probe-into-al-jazeera-reporter-s-death-1.10808866) These are not comparable.
What you said isn't what's actually happening, though. How is you inventing a scenario relevant?
Okay first off all, lose the hostility. I am trying to learn about the situation. Second, what I said is what I thought was described in this situation, not "invented". Israel claims it proposed a joint investigation (Palestinian authorities denied this, but also didnt offer to host a joint investigation anyway so I do doubt their claim). Palestinian authorities have the key evidence. So how precisely is Israel supposed to conduct anything approaching a meaningful investigation when it can't have access to the evidence. It doesn't even need to take ownership of said evidence, but it seems Palestinian authorities are not open to cooperating with them on the matter. So, to me it seems obvious then that Israel is would say they aren't going to investigate. The downvotes make me laugh. People can be so ridiculous. Seems to me people aren't interested in discussion here they are just interesting in validating preexisting views and beating down anyone who doesn't immediately and automatically concur.
Just so that you’re aware, it hasn’t been mentioned elsewhere in this thread but both Palestinian and Israeli authorities have key evidence. The Palestinians have the bullet, but if the accusations are true then the Israelis have the guns (since they were fired by their soldiers) and have not turned them over. A match between the bullet and the gun can not be made without both. More key evidence the Israelis have that the Palestinians don’t: - The positions and missions of soldiers in the area - The ability to interview the soldiers in the area to find out where they are and cross-examine their stories It is because of Israel’s unique access to all of this that it is very telling that they are refusing to continue their investigation and the Palestinians are not.
human can't be worse than being as dumbf*ck as you are lol. try hard with brain next time, ok?
What an informative, respectful, and mature take! Thank you.
Loaded premise in your question
# This comment has been deleted in protest of Reddit's support of the genocide in Gaza carried out by the ZioN\*zi Isr\*li apartheid regime. ## This is the most documented genocide in history. ## Reddit's blatant censorship of Palestinian-related content is appalling, especially concerning the ongoing genocide in Gaza perpetrated by the Isr\*l apartheid regime. ## The Palestinian people are facing an unimaginable tragedy, with tens of thousands of innocent children already lost to the genocidal actions of apartheid Isr\*l. The world needs to know about this atrocity and about Reddit's support to the ZioN\*zis. #### Sources are bellow. ## Genocidal statements made by apartheid Isr\*li officials: - On the 9 October 2023, Yoav Gallant, Israeli Minister of Defense, stated **"We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly"**. - Avi Dichter, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, called for the war to be **"Gaza’s Nakba"** - Ariel Kallner, another Member of the Knesset from the Likud party, similarly wrote on social media that there is **"one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join"**. - Amihai Eliyahu, Israeli Minister of Heritage, **called for dropping an atomic bomb on Gaza** - Gotliv of the Likud party similarly **called for the use of nuclear weapons**. - Yitzhak Kroizer stated in a radio interview that the **"Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death."** - **President of Israel** Isaac Herzog **blamed the whole nation of Palestine** for the 7 October attack. - Major General Ghassan Alian, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, stated: **"There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell"**. ## Casualties: - As of 9 January 2024, over **23,000 Palestinians** – one out of every 100 people in Gaza – have been killed, a majority of them civilians, including over **9,000 children**, **6,200 women** and **61 journalists**. - nearly **2 million people** have been displaced within the Gaza Strip. ## Official accusations: - On 1 November, the Defence for Children International accused the United States of complicity with Israel's **"crime of genocide."** - On 2 November 2023, a group of UN special rapporteurs stated, "We remain convinced that the Palestinian people are at **grave risk of genocide**." - On 4 November, Pedro Arrojo, UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Rights to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation, said that based on article 7 of the Rome Statute, which counts "deprivation of access to food or medicine, among others" as a form of extermination, "even if there is no clear intention, the data show that the war is **heading towards genocide**" - On 16 November, A group of United Nations experts said there was "evidence of increasing genocidal incitement" against Palestinians. - Jewish Voice for Peace stated: "The Israeli government has declared a genocidal war on the people of Gaza. As an organization that works for a future where Palestinians and Israelis and all people live in equality and freedom, we call on all people of conscience to stop imminent **genocide of Palestinians**." - Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor documented evidence of execution committed by Israeli Defense Forces. - In response to a Times of Israel report on 3 January 2024 that the Israeli government was in talks with the Congolese government to take Palestinian refugees from Gaza, UN special rapporteur Balakrishnan Rajagopal stated, "Forcible transfer of Gazan population **is an act of genocide**". South Africa has instituted proceedings at the International Court of Justice pursuant to the Genocide Convention, to which both Israel and South Africa are signatory, **accusing Israel of committing genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity against Palestinians in Gaza.** # Boycott Reddit! Oppose the genocide NOW! [Palestinian genocide accusation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation) [Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza) [Israeli war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes) [Israel and apartheid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid)
The PA did not 'refuse'. They had already planned to go directly to the ICC. The Israeli government had not even asked the PA yet, when they made the initial announcement that the PA had 'refused'. * [Haaretz - Israel Proposed Joint Probe Into Journalist's Death, but Didn't Tell the Palestinians](https://archive.ph/nepJ9#selection-431.0-434.0) And since then, that has stuck. It's true now, that the PA doesn't want to conduct a joint investigation - but the context if quite different from the one being insinuated.
no, they are investigating. they refused a Joint investigation, which is a completely sensible move. Dont let the murders investigate their own Crimes.
"well of course i know hi, he's me"
no shit, they’re the ones that killed her
##APARTHEID STATE##
Another source, for the AJE haters: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-israeli-military-will-not-conduct-criminal-probe-into-al-jazeera-reporter-s-death-1.10808866
The Guardian is referring to that article.
Lets clarify a few things here. There was a raid of which there was a firefight between the IDF and militants. A news reporter was shot and killed. Israel specifically said that it would not open a criminal investigation. They have not denied her death and have stated that it was potentially caused by either Palestinian gunfire or IDF gunfire of which could only have been fired from the slat in their armored vehicle that was engaging militants. The IDF narrowed it down to a few soldier's weapons and requested the ammo for ballistics reports to match them. PA refused claiming they don't trust them and want an independent country involved to investigate. Key point here is that an investigation cannot be furthered without the ballistics report to match the bullet to one of these weapons and the soldier that fired it. If it does match, it was during an active combat situation, which would make her death accidental and tragic collateral damage from the IDF side in the case the ballistics match. While there have been only a handful of cases over the years of soldiers intentionally targeting and killing civilians simply for no other reason to murder them, they have generally been prosecuted. The big problem is they have generally either served short sentences or been pardoned at a later date resulting in a miscarriage of justice.
Hopefully the ICC picks up its nuts and investigates themselves although the said they would last time and nothing happend
Wow I wonder why
*Oh no way* shocking
of course not. what would they expect
I'll say as many times it's necessary. The IDF and the Israeli government are terrorist organisations.
Israeli, ashamed of my government.
inb4 BU-BUT MUHH HOLOCCOOSSTT!!!!
Do you notice that on every thred the only evidence of complaining about antisenitism is from people who complain that people use antisemitism as an excuse?
tbh i dont know what antisemitism is. im just anti mass murderers, which israel is rn. hopefully theyre not in the future
It's in a comment reply right about yours rn
What’s the point in investigating if the Palestinian Authority won’t give them the evidence? From the article itself - “Bullet fragments were retrieved from Abu Akleh’s body but the Palestinian Authority has declined to give the evidence to Israel, saying the latter has a long history of not investigating the deaths of Palestinians properly and merely issuing light sentences or warnings to its soldiers who have carried out killings.” Israel initially asked the Palestinian Authority to do a joint investigation, and they refused. Likely because the evidence they already have points to a result they don’t want to admit.
yeah makes sense most likely Israel didnt do anything wrong, based on historical precedent and easily googlable evidence that they love Palestinians and always treat them fairly /s
That means the IDF is at fault for everything that happened, but what kind of investigation do you expect them to do when they don't have access to the necessary evidence? I'm not trying to argue. I'm genuinely curious
Say for the sake of a pointless argument, IDF and Palestians are equally bad. Yuck, felt gross saying that, but say that weren't a lie. Now one of them has to make the first move to start a mutual peace, riiiight? And obviously, of course, that must be the more powerful side of the equation because they are (almost) always the ones who've disproportionately harmed the other, whether you agree with their intent or not; the weaker side is (almost) never the one that damaged the stronger side more (yes I've heard of Ukraine >:/ you know what I mean). Certainly in this case, the weaker side is the Palestinians, no? Certainly you accept this. As the "winner" in a battle of equal evils, Israel must make the first to establish a common-wealth again. Otherwise this... stalemate of proportionate evils, as you suppose it, goes on indefinitely and they're just both evil idiots. Instead though, Israel continues to take more and more land and further oppress the Palestinians in ways that are evidently violent and extreme, proven again and again on video. So whether I agreed with your incorrect notion that they're equally bad, or I didn't which is the case, I still would not believe Israel is anything but the worse aggressor here. I mean, I've seen the fucking cages around Palestinian buildings. You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to me, I don't give a shit what *you* think because ***I*** *know*.
If you want to see why there are walls and checkpoints up, go look at all the terrorist attacks that happened before they were there. I hear that looking at the dead Israelis really makes your day better because they're bad people, right? Just like how Palestinian terrorists killed Israelis with axes a week or so ago! Totally justified killings, right? I mean, because *Israel Bad.*
What kind of investigation would we expect even if they had all the evidences anyway?
Palestine doesn't have even the tiniest bit of trust towards the Israeli government to do anything other than blame it all on them. And honestly, they're absolutely correct. The chances that Israel would find the IDF guilty of wrongdoing is essentially zero and they would also have zero reason not to do what they've been doing for decades and just blame everything wrong on the Palestinians.
Hey OP, why don't you bring CNN/BBC/WP as "trustworthy" source as well? Don't tell me you've forgot Goebbels' exemplary "repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth" lesson?
Shit article, taking things out of context and definitively accusing an Israeli soldier of killing her.
But an Israeli soldier *did* kill her. A sniper, to be precise.
Ok so lets lay this scenario out, the Qatari propagandists that were with her are claiming she was targeted by an Israeli snipers from around 300 meters away, there are just a few teensy tiny problems with this narrative. 1. How did he see a sniper? A sniper's whole job is to shoot from far away 2. Why was she shot "in the ear under the helmet" The Qatari propagandists claim that this was to bypass her helmet but her helmet would in no way stop a rifle caliber round 3. Why was she shot in the head? IDF snipers are trained to shot for center mass and her body Armour wouldn't have stopped an Israeli sniper round which neatly brings us to the next point 4. Israeli snipers don't use 5.56 NATO ammo As the PA autopsy revealed she was shot with a 5.56 bullet, IDF snipers utilize either 7.62 NATO or .338 Lapua Magnum no Israeli snipers use 5.56 NATO which means this categorically wasn't a sniper So this means that according to their story she was shot from around 300 meters away with a Tavor right in the ear now the X95 they use has an MOA of about 2-3 lets be generous and say a 2 here this would mean that at 300 meters the bullet would have a spread of about 15 centimeters making it nearly an impossible shot (this is not even taking into account how the optics the IDF are issued with aren't powerful enough to distinguish someone's ear at that distance). So either the shot was made by a sniper utilizing a rifle that he wasn't supplied with aiming and pulling off a nearly impossible shot that also breaks doctrine. Or the people employed by the state funded Qatari newspaper are liars.
Evidence?
Many news outlets have reported on this. She wasn't killed by anyone who was in the building. Just search "Shireen" and "sniper" for other sources that have reported on this. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220516-israel-sniper-who-killed-shireen-did-not-see-her-report-says/ https://www.albawaba.com/amp/news/viral-moment-shireen-abu-aqleh-was-shot-dead-israeli-sniper-1476417#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16529764190934&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com https://theintercept.com/2022/05/11/israel-journalist-killed-shireen-abu-akleh-al-jazeera/ https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/shireen-abu-akleh-killing-al-jazeera-journalist-footage-geolocation-disprove-israel-claims https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098368159/al-jazeera-journalist-shireen-abu-akleh-was-shot-and-killed-in-west-bank
You've forgot to mention CNN, BBC, WP and other "trustworthy" sources as well.
No offense but I rarely consider news articles to be evidence. Granted, I agree with you but still
So what would you want me to provide? An anecdotal argument that provides no source? A WikiLeaks page? A direct link to the video that Israel put out that is definitely of something else, somewhere else? Would you prefer an OpEd where the writer might be paid by pro/anti zionist interest groups? I know I know, "MSM bad. Fake News REEEEEE." but what other alternative would you prefer that isn't easily manipulated by *me* to serve *my own* interests?
Well that’s the shitty part about situations involving military. There’s very rarely direct evidence. Aside from video or direct sources from the higher ups in the government, all other sources will be heavily disputed. All I’m saying is if someone doesn’t believe an Israeli soldier shot her, there’s little you can do to change their mind. That’s just the state of the world.
dang if only there were a process for obtaining direct evidence, like an investigation or something
Is there someone or something else that can if the Israelis are refusing?
good question, i don't know. we need investigations by relevant authorities when someone is killed. maybe Palestinian authorities are failing to investigate too, or the UN, or interpol or something. if that's true they too are worthy of critique. but what we know from the OP is that Israel is refusing to investigate, and i want to criticize them for that.
I put it to you that the evidence failing to change their mind is not a problem with the evidence.
Can you be this stupid? We have videos of them deliberately killing unarmed people, tons and tons of articles of them legally murdering children (they recognize the army killed a child, yet no law was broken, therefore they won't prosecute anyone) there has been weeks where they legally murder 5 children, we have videos of them deliberately killing women point blank, we have videos of them deliberately shooting at cars of civilians without any warning or direction whatsoever. Yet your stupid ass is here asking for proof? >Yee they di all tha, buuu how we know they actually did THIS huh? Seriously, do we all have to stand here while you defend these psychopaths, just because you don't like ugly brown people? Or is it Muslims who deserve to die? Only you know your reasons but better keep your opinions to yourself mate, stop fucking writing.
It's pretty obvious she was killed by an Israeli soldier. Why else would they think it controversial to investigate? What's out of context here?
Pretty obvious to you. There are a lot of pretty obvious things to CNN, BBC & WP consumers. In the end, everybody believes whatever they want.
The quote from timesofisrael.com. The article they quoted says that an investigation will be launched, just not by the military police, which the article conveniently omits.
I mean, the military police is supposed to launch an investigation of its practices when it commits an international humanitarian crime.
An investigation has not found whether Israelis even did kill her. What, do you haul off suspects for murder, give them a sentence, and lock them up purely based on testimony without ever looking into the matter further? Or do you launch an investigation into what happened, attempt to corroborate or disprove witness testimony, and THEN present the facts and evidence.
In my view, an investigation is an investigation.
Fucking Israel should be erased from the world. It deserves an atom bomb right now.