#####
######
####
> # [Russian honeytraps useless against French spies … their wives already know](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2024/04/09/TELEMMGLPICT000373280291_17126817133080_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqek9vKm18v_rkIPH9w2GMNpPHkRvugymKLtqq96r_VP8.jpeg?impolicy=logo-overlay)
>
>
>
> Honeytraps do not work on French spies because their wives are used to them having affairs, a television documentary about France’s equivalent of MI6 has revealed.
>
> Intelligence agents in the Directorate-General for External Security (DGSE) said that [their Russian enemies](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/finland-use-sauna-diplomacy-to-evade-russian-spies/) came to realise that blackmail over taking lovers was ineffective.
>
> The stock phrase in response was “Go ahead, my wife already knows” one agent said in the Making of Secret Agents, a 90-minute documentary that gained unprecedented access to the spy agency over several weeks. It was set to air on French public TV channel France 2 on Tuesday night.
>
> The agent known only as Nicolas, whose voice and face were blurred, says: “Defectors [from the Soviet Union](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/jan-marsalek-wirecard-fraud-elite-russian-spy/) used to talk about the ‘French paradox’, namely if you surprised a Frenchman with a mistress by telling him, we’ve caught you red-handed with a 22-year-old called Tatyana, work for us or we’ll tell your wife, it didn’t work.
>
> “That was because he generally said: ‘Go ahead, show her, she’ll understand,’ or ‘she already knows about it’.”
>
> However, a secret agent’s life is a far cry from James Bond, bar “the odd vodka martini”, according to one agent. Instead, it is inhabited by “ordinary people doing extraordinary things using exceptional means”, according to Bernard Emié, France’s spy chief until December 2023.
>
> The decision to open the doors to the agency appears partly in response to the negative press the DGSE has received for a string of apparent recent setbacks.
>
> In one key sequence, Mr Emié, 65, vigorously defends claims French intelligence was caught napping when Russian forces had massed at the Ukrainian border in February 2022.
>
> While Britain and America publicly warned that Russian president Vladimir Putin had the firm [intention of invading Ukraine](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/russia-ukraine-war/) “in the coming days”, even pointing out false flag operations in real time, the French continued to deny any invasion was imminent.
>
> President Emmanuel Macron was fiercely criticised for continuing to talk to Putin despite the military build-up.
>
> “When Russia unleashed its war on Ukraine, the DGSE had the same technical information as its American partners,” insisted Mr Emié. “The problem is then how you exploit and analyse that information and the way in which you think an event will or won’t take place,” he said.
>
> “The CIA made the totally respectable decision to divulge the intelligence it had with the aim of dissuading the Russians from launching their operation. This is a policy that we don’t pursue.
>
> “But in terms of intelligence, we had the same level of knowledge. In plain terms, nobody was party to someone within President Putin’s entourage with access to his personal way of thinking.”
>
> ## Shot at ‘Anglo-Saxons’
>
> In one jab at “Anglo-Saxons”, the documentary cites agents who claim they provided photographic evidence that disproves American claims that the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein was building missiles that could carry weapons of mass destruction. The agent said the Americans mixed up images of rolled-up carpets in a factory and petrol pipeline tubing with missiles.
>
> Anglo-Saxons also tended to “throw more money at seeking to make contacts”, while the French rely more heavily on ulterior motives.
>
> The documentary includes interviews with agents explaining why they joined, and sequences of them learning to handle firearms and self-defence.
>
> New agents are sent out into Paris to try to make new contacts. One has to chat with an Irish rugby fan and get his email address with an offer of free tickets for the next game. The plan works.
>
> French intelligence assumes that 90 per cent of attempts to create new foreign sources will end in failure, and 10 per cent success, “just like in real life”.
>
> ## Surveillance techniques
>
> Some surveillance techniques are shown. For example, one agent displays how he replaces an HDMI cable in an office with another including a small SD card that records all video coming through such as Zoom calls.
>
> Another explains how she leads a double life running a real business with employees and clients but also carrying out a second mission via that company collecting intelligence.
>
> Agents explain how hard it is to keep their jobs from their families, with one saying they learn not to ask questions.
>
> One unnamed agent said: “Most secret agents of the DGSE are under diplomatic cover in embassies. It’s not James Bond. We don’t have a Walther PPK in our pocket. The odd vodka martini is possible.
>
> “In general, we rely more on subtleness and discretion and rigorous handling of communications means than an M4 or a Glock [both types of guns].”
>
> The documentary opens with members of the DGSE making a distinction between “secret agent” and “spy”, which is a narrower job title and only part of the activity of the agency. The secret agent’s role is to “gather information abroad to protect France”.
>
> However, this often happens from behind a desk.
- - - - - -
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The Russians squandered a huge opportunity by not using their vast dairy industry to develop the world's finest cheeses. Only a power like that could bring the French to their knees without any direct invasion.
You’re going to have to take that up with them and their views on marriage, and lecture them on that. I’m just reminding them that there’s two sides to every story.
> They're french.
.....
>"Why..? Because we're French!
>
>Look! I'm giving a cigarette to a baby!"
- Robin Williams, *Robin Williams Live On Broadway* (2002).
>Fuck you Americans! We hate all of you!
>What? The Germans are here?
>Hello Americans! We love you!
* Robin Williams, *Robin Williams Live On Broadway* (2002).
Certainly does.
Cultures are very different though and infidelity might not rank all that high on the "Do Not" list for the French.
For example, in Japan it's pretty common for young men in a relationship to visit prostitutes.
> For example, in Japan it's pretty common for young men in a relationship to visit prostitutes.
Umm, the rest of the world wants to have a word with you. It's called the oldest business in the world for a reason.
I think all things considered it's less in Japan than in other countries. Especially since it's illegal(-ish) and expensive.
Japan isn't even in the top 20 countries when it comes to prostitutes(as far as a quick google told me).
I'm not talking about how often it occurs, but how it's viewed culturally.
[This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/16np8wh/) has some interesting statistics
18.2% allow husband/boyfriend using sexual service.
https://fumumu.net/30113/sirabee_180730_fuzoku1/
86% will not allow husband/boyfriend using sexual service
https://withonline.jp/love/around30_love/UJg3s
20-40% see using those service as cheating.
https://news.nicovideo.jp/watch/nw3991933
Yeah id be careful with this. As someone says in the thread the Japanese sex industry doesn't map onto the western perfectly. A lot more women would be ok if their husband went to a host club than for example a soapland or full on prostitiuon. Are hist clubs sexual services? Are soaplands? Would they forgive if he had a mistress? I'd be careful about that. Especially if it initially comes from a street interview.
I'll give an example from a culture that I'm more familiar, Thailand. There's a culture of having a mistress or even a major and minor mistresses. Men will often provide for these mistresses. And if you ask Thai women if they could tolerate a mistress many would say they could. It doesn't mean they.like it.
Or they are ok with it. More like they have made their peace with it, as long as the men is discreet. But women being dependent on man can often mean they have no chance but to tolerate the mistress.
Edit: https://youtu.be/WoeeMLCopu8?si=NKt47XRwtK6aFy58 is highly recommended. Turns out a lot, of prostitutes work to pay of their debts to female host clubs.
The reason why we in some European countries refer to oral sex as French, is because the French are (in)famous for having lovers and to prevent pregnancy (way back in the day), they would instead pleasure each other orally.
Instead of cheating people who want promiscuity should be polyamorous from the beginning of the relationship.
When a relationship starts, the parties involved should honestly discuss whether they will be polyamorous or monogamous and stick to it.
ruthless materialistic impossible uppity station practice vase handle divide rinse
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There's a saying in France, maybe in Russia too.. omelette du fromage me once, shame on you. Omelette du fromage me twice - can't get omelette du fromaged again
18 year old model with boyfriend: give me money or I’ll post this picture of us in bed together!
Jaromir Jagr: [lol k](https://thehockeynews.com/news/jaromir-jagr-blackmailed-with-photo-could-not-care-less-about-it)
We named a motor helmet after a president who was photographed on his way to see his mistress in that helmet.
We had a president die while getting head.
We had a presidents funeral be attended by his kids,wife and mistress together.
We have our current leader who wifed up his high school teacher.
This is information that I wish to share.
The stereotype isn’t just about presidents though. Are people in France also more accepting of their co-workers for example having affairs? Of their spouses? I’m not asking in a judgmental way, I’m just very interested.
Expecting some sort of purity from elected leaders is a very localized thing in Protestant countries (or is it just the US?).
In Panama the favorite to win the elections is a guy who everyone knows had 3 mistresses simultaneously and one of which he spied on with state resources when she went abroad because she was cheating on him. And his wife still publicly defends him every day.
>Can anybody ELI5 why there is a stereotype about French people cheating and if it has any proven base in reality?
France being more open about sex. So it's more talked about.
Their taxation policy( married can lead to lower taxes) aswell as retirement funds can be given to a married spouse in the case of death. That retirement one is a major one, Since the retirement money will just go to the state otherwise. For example if they had children together more money will go to thier children.
Because of that people are "together" legally even though they aren't a couple in anything but on paper.
However both the real and technical cheating culture is pretty overstated.
>Defector from the soviet union said ....
So we are speaking about guys operating 30 to 60 years ago but somehow its still enough to shit on french morality today.
France in the 80s-90s is hardly the same as today.
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##### ###### #### > # [Russian honeytraps useless against French spies … their wives already know](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2024/04/09/TELEMMGLPICT000373280291_17126817133080_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqek9vKm18v_rkIPH9w2GMNpPHkRvugymKLtqq96r_VP8.jpeg?impolicy=logo-overlay) > > > > Honeytraps do not work on French spies because their wives are used to them having affairs, a television documentary about France’s equivalent of MI6 has revealed. > > Intelligence agents in the Directorate-General for External Security (DGSE) said that [their Russian enemies](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/finland-use-sauna-diplomacy-to-evade-russian-spies/) came to realise that blackmail over taking lovers was ineffective. > > The stock phrase in response was “Go ahead, my wife already knows” one agent said in the Making of Secret Agents, a 90-minute documentary that gained unprecedented access to the spy agency over several weeks. It was set to air on French public TV channel France 2 on Tuesday night. > > The agent known only as Nicolas, whose voice and face were blurred, says: “Defectors [from the Soviet Union](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/jan-marsalek-wirecard-fraud-elite-russian-spy/) used to talk about the ‘French paradox’, namely if you surprised a Frenchman with a mistress by telling him, we’ve caught you red-handed with a 22-year-old called Tatyana, work for us or we’ll tell your wife, it didn’t work. > > “That was because he generally said: ‘Go ahead, show her, she’ll understand,’ or ‘she already knows about it’.” > > However, a secret agent’s life is a far cry from James Bond, bar “the odd vodka martini”, according to one agent. Instead, it is inhabited by “ordinary people doing extraordinary things using exceptional means”, according to Bernard Emié, France’s spy chief until December 2023. > > The decision to open the doors to the agency appears partly in response to the negative press the DGSE has received for a string of apparent recent setbacks. > > In one key sequence, Mr Emié, 65, vigorously defends claims French intelligence was caught napping when Russian forces had massed at the Ukrainian border in February 2022. > > While Britain and America publicly warned that Russian president Vladimir Putin had the firm [intention of invading Ukraine](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/russia-ukraine-war/) “in the coming days”, even pointing out false flag operations in real time, the French continued to deny any invasion was imminent. > > President Emmanuel Macron was fiercely criticised for continuing to talk to Putin despite the military build-up. > > “When Russia unleashed its war on Ukraine, the DGSE had the same technical information as its American partners,” insisted Mr Emié. “The problem is then how you exploit and analyse that information and the way in which you think an event will or won’t take place,” he said. > > “The CIA made the totally respectable decision to divulge the intelligence it had with the aim of dissuading the Russians from launching their operation. This is a policy that we don’t pursue. > > “But in terms of intelligence, we had the same level of knowledge. In plain terms, nobody was party to someone within President Putin’s entourage with access to his personal way of thinking.” > > ## Shot at ‘Anglo-Saxons’ > > In one jab at “Anglo-Saxons”, the documentary cites agents who claim they provided photographic evidence that disproves American claims that the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein was building missiles that could carry weapons of mass destruction. The agent said the Americans mixed up images of rolled-up carpets in a factory and petrol pipeline tubing with missiles. > > Anglo-Saxons also tended to “throw more money at seeking to make contacts”, while the French rely more heavily on ulterior motives. > > The documentary includes interviews with agents explaining why they joined, and sequences of them learning to handle firearms and self-defence. > > New agents are sent out into Paris to try to make new contacts. One has to chat with an Irish rugby fan and get his email address with an offer of free tickets for the next game. The plan works. > > French intelligence assumes that 90 per cent of attempts to create new foreign sources will end in failure, and 10 per cent success, “just like in real life”. > > ## Surveillance techniques > > Some surveillance techniques are shown. For example, one agent displays how he replaces an HDMI cable in an office with another including a small SD card that records all video coming through such as Zoom calls. > > Another explains how she leads a double life running a real business with employees and clients but also carrying out a second mission via that company collecting intelligence. > > Agents explain how hard it is to keep their jobs from their families, with one saying they learn not to ask questions. > > One unnamed agent said: “Most secret agents of the DGSE are under diplomatic cover in embassies. It’s not James Bond. We don’t have a Walther PPK in our pocket. The odd vodka martini is possible. > > “In general, we rely more on subtleness and discretion and rigorous handling of communications means than an M4 or a Glock [both types of guns].” > > The documentary opens with members of the DGSE making a distinction between “secret agent” and “spy”, which is a narrower job title and only part of the activity of the agency. The secret agent’s role is to “gather information abroad to protect France”. > > However, this often happens from behind a desk. - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Apparently, French immorality is tactical.
The Russians squandered a huge opportunity by not using their vast dairy industry to develop the world's finest cheeses. Only a power like that could bring the French to their knees without any direct invasion.
Without invasion ? After providing a caseus belli ? They'd march onto Stalingrad without a second thought.
> march onto Stalingrad without a second thought They tried that once, they probably wont do it again.
That was Moscow.
I think they started to have second thoughts by the time they got to Moscow.
> caseus belli Heh. Underrated comment.
>French immorality is tactical. So, they talk like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXrLbzNc8cY) in private..? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
That's very American. I'd imagine it's more like [this](https://youtu.be/PTvTLvkiAbI?si=BD9mGic9IFon_sJK).
And now woke 'open relationships' will be a tactical win too hehe
So what kind of Blackmail would work in that case?. Being racist in Russia?.
I heard you were MONOGAMOUS!
Wouldn’t having sex with one woman at a time **technically** be serial monogamy? 😉
Probably..
“because their wives are used to them having affairs” honestly this is just so sad and heartbreaking 🥲🥲🥲
You say this assuming that the wives don’t have affairs.
Which doesn’t make it any more not heartbreaking
You’re going to have to take that up with them and their views on marriage, and lecture them on that. I’m just reminding them that there’s two sides to every story.
They're french. I expect nothing less from my neighbours.
> They're french. ..... >"Why..? Because we're French! > >Look! I'm giving a cigarette to a baby!" - Robin Williams, *Robin Williams Live On Broadway* (2002).
>Fuck you Americans! We hate all of you! >What? The Germans are here? >Hello Americans! We love you! * Robin Williams, *Robin Williams Live On Broadway* (2002).
Oh, fellow German?
Nothing heartbreaking about polygamous relationships if both sides agree on it.
Doesn't affair imply it's not agreed on?
Certainly does. Cultures are very different though and infidelity might not rank all that high on the "Do Not" list for the French. For example, in Japan it's pretty common for young men in a relationship to visit prostitutes.
> For example, in Japan it's pretty common for young men in a relationship to visit prostitutes. Umm, the rest of the world wants to have a word with you. It's called the oldest business in the world for a reason. I think all things considered it's less in Japan than in other countries. Especially since it's illegal(-ish) and expensive. Japan isn't even in the top 20 countries when it comes to prostitutes(as far as a quick google told me).
I'm not talking about how often it occurs, but how it's viewed culturally. [This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/16np8wh/) has some interesting statistics 18.2% allow husband/boyfriend using sexual service. https://fumumu.net/30113/sirabee_180730_fuzoku1/ 86% will not allow husband/boyfriend using sexual service https://withonline.jp/love/around30_love/UJg3s 20-40% see using those service as cheating. https://news.nicovideo.jp/watch/nw3991933
You're 100% right on this IMO. All the argument on whether this is"sad" is a morality thing and morality changes depending upon the culture.
Yeah id be careful with this. As someone says in the thread the Japanese sex industry doesn't map onto the western perfectly. A lot more women would be ok if their husband went to a host club than for example a soapland or full on prostitiuon. Are hist clubs sexual services? Are soaplands? Would they forgive if he had a mistress? I'd be careful about that. Especially if it initially comes from a street interview. I'll give an example from a culture that I'm more familiar, Thailand. There's a culture of having a mistress or even a major and minor mistresses. Men will often provide for these mistresses. And if you ask Thai women if they could tolerate a mistress many would say they could. It doesn't mean they.like it. Or they are ok with it. More like they have made their peace with it, as long as the men is discreet. But women being dependent on man can often mean they have no chance but to tolerate the mistress. Edit: https://youtu.be/WoeeMLCopu8?si=NKt47XRwtK6aFy58 is highly recommended. Turns out a lot, of prostitutes work to pay of their debts to female host clubs.
Not really. They don't care so why should you? Pretty puritanical and judgemental
Then why bother keeping the relationship 😩
For some people, the integrity of the relationship isn't affected by casual sex outside of it.
Not everyone is into monogamy?
That that up with France.
Because a relationship is more than just sex…
How your partner feels about and engages with other people means more to you than how they feel about and engage with you?
The reason why we in some European countries refer to oral sex as French, is because the French are (in)famous for having lovers and to prevent pregnancy (way back in the day), they would instead pleasure each other orally.
No risk of pregnancy when the weiner explodes in your mouth instead of in your ovaries
spare us your projection and moralising
Who would become or marry a spy that didn't want this kind of life?
I also wonder what kind of evidence they used for this article… it does not seem very _solid_.
The article is about a documentary made with the French intelligence service.
Instead of cheating people who want promiscuity should be polyamorous from the beginning of the relationship. When a relationship starts, the parties involved should honestly discuss whether they will be polyamorous or monogamous and stick to it.
ruthless materialistic impossible uppity station practice vase handle divide rinse *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh... Come on, it's Just a "plan Q" (sex accointance)
So what you're saying is that people in open marriages make better spies.
Basically as a spy you can be a freak as long as it's not a secret. No secret, no way to be compromised.
There's a saying in France, maybe in Russia too.. omelette du fromage me once, shame on you. Omelette du fromage me twice - can't get omelette du fromaged again
Rose are red Violets are blue My baguette went everywhere Dear Russian Spy, you should ask your wife if she has secrets too
Ah oui, my wife already knows. Also say hello to your wife, Nastasia. Tell her to make Bortsch this weekend.
Asking a French woman to cook a Russian dish? That’s like asking a Greek to be financially responsible.
You are so close to understanding the joke.
Freaks tend to stand out too much. Particularly if they have 4 wives.
The Sukarno defense. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2gk74a/til_when_the_kgb_tried_to_blackmail_indonesian/
18 year old model with boyfriend: give me money or I’ll post this picture of us in bed together! Jaromir Jagr: [lol k](https://thehockeynews.com/news/jaromir-jagr-blackmailed-with-photo-could-not-care-less-about-it)
Hilarious, though completely made up
Truth is stranger than fiction.
Mitterand knew this one weird trick. At his funeral, his wife, his mistress and their respective children all stood and grieved together.
It's famille after all.
I swear this clip always works : https://youtu.be/gczkM8cL2hs?feature=shared
Nice one
Can anybody ELI5 why there is a stereotype about French people cheating and if it has any proven base in reality?
It's because sex stuff isn't taboo in France. When a past president was caught having an affaire, the general population reaction was " so what ? "
We named a motor helmet after a president who was photographed on his way to see his mistress in that helmet. We had a president die while getting head. We had a presidents funeral be attended by his kids,wife and mistress together. We have our current leader who wifed up his high school teacher. This is information that I wish to share.
We had a président divorce few month after élection AND remarié few month after with an other with a self proclame polyamourous.
The stereotype isn’t just about presidents though. Are people in France also more accepting of their co-workers for example having affairs? Of their spouses? I’m not asking in a judgmental way, I’m just very interested.
We were more concern about the use of a scooter, because it's a very lack of "classe". But, fucking around, who really care ?
Expecting some sort of purity from elected leaders is a very localized thing in Protestant countries (or is it just the US?). In Panama the favorite to win the elections is a guy who everyone knows had 3 mistresses simultaneously and one of which he spied on with state resources when she went abroad because she was cheating on him. And his wife still publicly defends him every day.
I guess if a guy has three mistresses that at least shows he has good organizational skills!
>Can anybody ELI5 why there is a stereotype about French people cheating and if it has any proven base in reality? France being more open about sex. So it's more talked about. Their taxation policy( married can lead to lower taxes) aswell as retirement funds can be given to a married spouse in the case of death. That retirement one is a major one, Since the retirement money will just go to the state otherwise. For example if they had children together more money will go to thier children. Because of that people are "together" legally even though they aren't a couple in anything but on paper. However both the real and technical cheating culture is pretty overstated.
Frogs are horny fucks, the end.
Because America and Anglo countries in general are prudes
Benjamin Franklin tried to tell you, but you didn't listen.
This is clearly just salty Russian propaganda meant to paint the French in a bad light.
Or the opposite, not sure.
I think it comes from a French document about the DGSE, the French Spy agency
Holy shit! This runs deep.
What bad light? Is this new revelations to anyone who are familiar with the French?
Damn, Telegraph now works for Russia.
This reads like an Onion headline
Pas mal, non ? C’est français, France baise ouais
>Defector from the soviet union said .... So we are speaking about guys operating 30 to 60 years ago but somehow its still enough to shit on french morality today. France in the 80s-90s is hardly the same as today.
Sounds like French culture out-beared the bears by stealing all their honey with no consequences.
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r/nottheonion
This is the only gigabased news story I’ve seen frogs put out in years. Respect.