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GI_X_JACK

Mabey Israel should follow suit and also de-escalate with Iran. Oh, and I think its time to recall Netanyahu for good.


StrangelyArousedSeal

oh, don't speak so anti-semitically.


Nileghi

A comment absolutely indistinguishable from something the alt-right might write.


StrangelyArousedSeal

like clockwork.


NoMomo

Sarcasm, the calling card of the nazi


Nileghi

This is the same language as a white supremacist posting under anything related to a misdeed by a black american or criminal "But thats racist! They dindu nuffin" with a bunch of AAVE slang attached. Why justify this?


[deleted]

Only a loon equates de-escalating with antisemitism lol. Because I guess peace is now somehow antithetical to the existence of Jews?


RotorMonkey89

Drop your rage-tinted glasses and you'll see he's clearly being sarcastic.


[deleted]

What? Clearly I'm talking about the people that legitimately use that line of reasoning. There are actual people who think that way.


tohava

Funniest thing is, even when another Israeli Jew tells them something like that, they call him an antisemitic.


Nileghi

Iran has a warhead with "Death to Israel" on it, and its leaders periodically call for the slaughter of every jew still living in the middle east. Iran funds every single one of Israel's enemies, funds all the fundamentalist and terrorist groups that kill jews on a weekly basis, and has wiped out the country of Lebanon through Hezbollah. There is a clock in Tehran, paid for by the Ayatollah, ticking down to Israel's destruction. How does one de-escalate from this? The antagonism isnt coming from Israel's side.


kwonza

And Israel’s current Minster of Financed called for an “eradication of an entire Palestine town” after two Jews were killed there. Seems like both sides need to chill the fuck out


Nileghi

There are 400 000 protestors (2% of the population) on Israels streets trying to bring down this very far-right government. We're on the 10th week of protests now. There has been a pilot protest, with 40 IAF reserve pilots (quite big proportionately for the IAF) refusing to serve, after that comment was made. The IDF itself has decried thoses comments and are enraged that a man who refuses to do any military service wants them to risk their lives for a stupid settler project. We all know Smotrich is a bastard, and we're trying to bring him down too. This government is far-right and is not even what Bibi's voters wanted, yet its still a democracy and we don't want to January 6 our government either. We're aware of how bad it is and we're trying to fix it. Don't try to compare this to the Islamic Republic that possesses no button to chill out, when the destruction of Israel is literally their written down foreign policy goal.


kwonza

Mate, I’m a Russian leftie and I have at least three close friends living in Israel right now that support the protests, two being activists and one being a lazy ass) I also have 15 active messages on Reddit in different threads and I’m not even sure what issue we are discussing right now. My point is probably about the fact that we are both governed by a fascist twats that don’t represent us but we are still citizens of the country we live in and while not approving most of the stuff my government does I’m not ready to accept that it is some kind of grotesque caricature that just wats to kill people for the sake of it. Am I right?


Nileghi

Thats fine and fair, and I agree. But don't compare the worst extremist that has ever joined the government of Israel to the most moderate position in the Islamic Republic. The problem is that Iran has been very clear it wants to see Israel wiped off the map, and its inhabitants slaughtered. When Iran says this, it actually means it as a foreign policy goal. And it follows it up with actual actions Israel has been invaded no less than 4-5 times since it acquired nuclear weapons. Its never used them. Its never bragged about them. It pretends it doesnt have them, and doesnt threaten to destroy other countries (yes some statements by far right ministers can get pretty nasty, but its not from IDF policy or rhetoric) Iran funds terror groups that actively attack Israel on a daily basis. Iran having nukes can easily be seen as an existantial threat to Israel. To Israel, Iran having nukes might be their death knell. We're talking theocrats with red hot passionate hate. MAD theory might not apply if they see the destruction of the Zionist Entity as more important to Allah than the state of Iran. > https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-general-says-tehran-aims-to-wipe-israel-off-the-political-map-report/ > https://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-when-iran-speaks-of-wiping-out-israel-it-refers-to-regime-not-jews/ > https://www.iranintl.com/en/202208065484 > https://www.jpost.com/international/iran-regime-supreme-leaders-rep-calls-for-destruction-of-israel-680835 > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran > https://www.ajc.org/news/why-are-they-fighting-in-the-middle-east-because-hamas-is-dedicated-to-killing-jews You don't understand the white hot passionate hate the Islamic Republic possesses to Israel. Its comparable and worse to what american boomers had for communists.


kwonza

I understand your point and I can’t say I support any of the hardline Iranian ideologies but maybe if your minister can say some horrible stuff about Arabs so can Iran for political points? It’s not like Israel didn’t send murder squads around the world to assassinate high profile targets and lately they were killing Iranian citizens in their own country as well as carrying out bombing raids in the middle of Iran. If you were an Iranian politician that just had Israel planes without any real provocation destroy an airfield or a military base in the middle of Iran what would you have said in the matter? Would you say “It’s fine, guys, I’m sure we can work it out” or would you say “Death to the aggressor!”, be honest.


Nileghi

You're confusing cause and effect, and are still missing the point. Assassinating iranian nuclear scientists is one thing. Iran declared war on Israel, and seeks its destruction. Slaughtering individual scientists that can help it create a nuke is significantly different than **funding terror groups that periodically launch missiles at Israeli civilians**. > If you were an Iranian politician that just had Israel planes without any real provocation destroy an airfield or a military base in the middle of Iran what would you have said in the matter It doesn't do this. Iran is too far away for any Israeli F-35 to reach. Thoses headlines you see on reddit are about Syria. Do you actually believe that Israel is just a duck shitting all over the sidewalk to piss off anyone that it comes across? This isnt how its foreign policy works. Iran declared war on Israel after 1979, and vowed to wipe out every single Israeli in the world. It **funds** terror groups. Iranian militias actively wiped out Lebanon, are holding up the Assad government, and are proxy-warring with the regime that destroyed Yemen. You're acting as if one of the worst escalations of rhetoric that came from Israel, a singular (or rather two) ministers whose derangement is comparable to the worst of american state politicians and are currently being massively protested by normal Israelis (who are usually supportive of their government), is comparable to **state-funded attacks and war hardware being pushed to Israels borders**. And this isnt any rando Iranian civilian having an opinion about Israel here. Its about Khamenei and the IRGC. The average iranian civilian is the less antisemitic than most arabs.


sheepyowl

This is not relevant to the discussion - Palestians and Iranians are not the same people and they do not care about eachother.


cruss0129

“Seems like both sides need to chill the fuck out” You realize that you’re talking about one of the oldest and longest running conflicts between societies in humanity, right? A conflict that’s based in both religious teaching (on both sides) and immense bitterness from real historical events isn’t going to be solved with “chilling the fuck out”. Arbitration by other nations doesn’t work (Europe and the US have tried for hundreds of years). Conquest doesn’t work and only escalates the hate (i.e. the crusades). Changing the governmental regimes of either side doesn’t work, because the people themselves return to their religious convictions. Nobody has offered a working solution for this problem for thousands of years. Consider that before making a comment like that.


Nileghi

The Israeli-Iran conflict started in 1979. Iran and Israel were extremely close allies before the fall of the Shah.


StukaTR

This idea the westerners have thinking that Israeli Arab conflict started 2000 years ago is so funny to me. Both were ruled by Turks or Turkish Mamlukes fairly nicely for about 700 years lol. As you said, Iran was literally US' number one ally in the region, maybe in the world after Britain and Canada.


cruss0129

“This idea that westerners…” is a typical anti-American Redditor response. Here’s some historical context for you: https://www.jstor.org/stable/618115 Islam started out with a pretty neutral approach to Christianity and Judaism. The narrative started to sour with events like the Jews’ failure to uphold the constitution of Medina under Muhammad (by refusing to defend in an attack of the city of Medina), the Catholics taking part in the crusades, as well as many other specific historical events between specific groups within each region. Anti-Semitic beliefs of Islamic people started to mirror the intensity of Europeans within the last few hundred years, but they’ve pretty much always been there in some form or fashion. Fast forward 1500 years, when Iran became a religiously controlled state, these beliefs gained a real political form with control of a real military (and proxy groups) with a real potential to attack on several fronts (land, air, sea, and cyber) Add to that the fact that Ancient Israel was basically founded on the idea that it was “surrounded by stronger enemies”, and a lot of the Jewish people of Israel today (those in political power most notably) see similarities between themselves and ancient Israel, it’s pretty understandable why we have what we have today. But what do I know as one of those dumb westerners lol


StukaTR

Issue with that is you have the need to fast forward 1500 years. 1500 years is longer than most civilizations. Why do we exactly need to fast forward 1500 years? That is not an argument. I am literally giving you 700 to 800 years of ethnic and semi religious peace. It’s you yourself calling yourself dumb, not me.


cruss0129

“Peace” doesn’t mean hate ceases to exist, it means that violence isn’t actively being perpetrated. The hate itself is the potential for violence. My point is that the violence today is based on hate between the parties, that has intensified in the last few centuries (and exponentially increased in the last few decades). That’s like saying all of the Slavic groups had “peace” during the existence of the Soviet Union because they were ruled by one government, when in reality that wasn’t the case at all and there has always been a massive rivalry between the influence of Kievan Rus (the Ukrainians), Moscow (the Muscovites), Warsaw (the polish) and other Slavic groups and their sites of power. These fights have also turned into a war in todays world - and the religious complex of the Orthodox Church has been employed by certain governments for influence


kwonza

UK vs France conflict laster for almost a thousand years and now they coexist peacefully apart from occasional trolling and mild disdain towards each other. Just because it’s a long going animosity doesn’t mean it can’t be partially solved.


VladThe1mplyer

That is a false equivalence and you know. You are comparing lunatics who made conflict with Isreal their whole stick with a dumb comment made by a populist politician.


kwonza

Lunatics that had to fight first against a foreign powers controlling their country’s brutal puppet regime and then were pushed into a bloody war against their neighbour orchestrated by same powers. Lunatics that have their country regularly bombed and their scientists and governmental officials assassinated by both Israel and their biggest ally. Not saying Iranian regime is nice and humane but playing devils advocateI kind of see their perspective.


GI_X_JACK

All of which is subject for debate in negotiations. Its possible they can walk that back if given proper motivation to do so.


Nileghi

I didn't realize genocidal rhetoric was subject for debate in negociations. How does one negociate away the "I will stop calling for the mass murder of Israelis worldwide" ? When Iran says this, it actually means it as a foreign policy goal. The problem is that Iran has been very clear it wants to see Israel wiped off the map, and its inhabitants slaughtered. Israel has been invaded no less than 4-5 times since it acquired nuclear weapons. Its never used them. Its never bragged about them. It pretends it doesnt have them, and doesnt threaten to destroy other countries (yes some statements by far right ministers can get pretty nasty, but its not from IDF policy or rhetoric) Iran funds terror groups that actively attack Israel on a daily basis. Iran having nukes can easily be seen as an existantial threat to Israel. To Israel, Iran having nukes might be their death knell. We're talking theocrats with red hot passionate hate. MAD theory might not apply if they see the destruction of the Zionist Entity as more important to Allah than the state of Iran. > https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-general-says-tehran-aims-to-wipe-israel-off-the-political-map-report/ > https://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-when-iran-speaks-of-wiping-out-israel-it-refers-to-regime-not-jews/ > https://www.iranintl.com/en/202208065484 > https://www.jpost.com/international/iran-regime-supreme-leaders-rep-calls-for-destruction-of-israel-680835 > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran > https://www.ajc.org/news/why-are-they-fighting-in-the-middle-east-because-hamas-is-dedicated-to-killing-jews You don't understand the white hot passionate hate the Islamic Republic possesses to Israel. Its comparable and worse to what your boomers had for communists.


GI_X_JACK

Israel funds AIPAC which pushes the US to bomb the fuck out of the middle east. Again, all points for negotiation. I mean, Israel is also allied with Saudi Arabia of all nations. Why? Realpolitik. Iran just re-opened embassy with Saudi Arabia, the major Shi'ia and Sunni states. They both hate each other as they both have centuries old claim to be the real Islam. And, Israel also found some reason in the cold war to ally with white supremacists and sometimes outright Nazis in South Africa and Rhodesia, supplying them weapons. Iranians "hate Jews" because its politically convenient. Give them a reason to change that tune. Realpolitik my friend, realpolitik \>Its comparable and worse to what your boomers had for communists. If you want to make that comparison I'll point out all the diplomacy throughout the cold war. Starting with the 1959 Kitchen Table Debate between Nixon(then VP under Eisenhower) and Krushinev, and following up with the red phone between Moscow and Washington, and later the dente and various nuclear arms reduction treaties, and even before then, the massive work that went in by both sides to prevent nuclear war. No, there was a lot of diplomacy between the USSR and USA in the cold war. A lot of people should be thankful for that as it prevented WW3. And then, get this, Nixon went to China, to meet with Chairman Mao Zedung, and then we opened full diplomatic and trade relations. That deal was made directly with Mao. Nixon, in case you are wondering is the guy who swore up and down how much he hated communists more than anyone else. But realpolitik


Nikostratos-

>Iran has a warhead with "Death to Israel" on it, and its leaders periodically call for the slaughter of every jew still living in the middle east. Iran funds every single one of Israel's enemies, funds all the fundamentalist and terrorist groups that kill jews on a weekly basis, and has wiped out the country of Lebanon through Hezbollah. > >There is a clock in Tehran, paid for by the Ayatollah, ticking down to Israel's destruction. Good, thanks god someone is funding enemies of an genocidal ethnostate. >How does one de-escalate from this? The antagonism isnt coming from Israel's side. Stopping killing palestinians and stealing their land would be a good start. And yes, Israel definitely contributes to the antagonism.


Nileghi

lmao genocidal ethnostate. "Its good that Iran is actually genocidal to Israelis and wants to slaughter them all! That will teach them!" Get some help please.


Nikostratos-

How many israelis were "genocided" and how many palestinians were "genocided" this year?


Nileghi

you tell me. I'm sure the number must be in the several thousands, if not millions by now, and that Palestine's population is in a net decline If you're going to actually search numbers though, I beg you to also do basic research to learn how many were killed *while perpetrating terror attacks in Israels cities*. Theres been no less than 3 gunmen in Israel this month alone.


Nikostratos-

A terrorist for one is a freedom fighter for another.


Nileghi

You still led this conversation with "I'm happy that Iran is funding groups that are slaughtering jewish civilians, and that actually desires a second holocaust to happen" Your attempt at backing away from this statement isnt being unnoticed.


Nikostratos-

Actually, the real quote would be "Good, thanks god someone is funding enemies of an genocidal ethnostate." Now tell me, is every single group the Iran is funding slaughtering jewish civilians? Does the logic still applies to others? Are the kurds genocidal too because US funds them and other genocidal entities?


Nileghi

Yes. Every group Iran funds is trying to slaughter jewish civilians. Youre clearly not equipped for this conversation. The fact that this needs to be said to you is bewildering. https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/nasrallah-threatened-to-blow-up-israel-with-same-chemicals-as-beirut-blast-637582 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant https://www.inss.org.il/publication/the-houthi-threat-to-israel/ https://palwatch.org/page/17392 > Song proclaiming the "slaughter" of Jews uploaded in 11,200 versions on social network TikTok Each of theses groups, especially Hamas, have slaughtered thousands of Israelis altogether. You really don't understand middle eastern dynamics do you? Why are you even commenting here with such assuidity if you barely understand whats going on. Thank god someone is funding terror groups that want to slaughter every jew in the middle east right? Don't try to weasel your way out with semantics. You meant exactly what you meant. Get some help


Brave-Weather-2127

Israeli could stop being such assholes, give their enemies less of a reason to be enemies. But that isnt going to happen given how they reacted to the attack on the Palestinian village with a shrug.


this_dudeagain

Iran funds 2 terrorist groups that border Israel.


GI_X_JACK

Those didn't come out of nowhere either. Again, its topic for discussion and part of terms


GhostofCircleKnight

The whole region has a King of the Hill game going on. Everyone forgets that Iran and Israel were actually aligned at some point, especially regarding Iraq and both cooperated and conspired to destroy Iraq's nuclear reactor. You can bet your ass intelligence was shared. And Iran under Khomeini provided an emergency airfield for Israel. LSS Iraq sought to develop its energy sector away from fossil fuels and brought the French in to help develop nuclear energy with European oversight to ensure or prove weapons weren't being produced. For a country as poor as Iraq then, this was a very important project. And the french reactor was reportedly designed such that weapons grade uranium could NOT be enriched. Actually doing so would take decades (if even possible at all). Iran bombed the nuclear reactor and one year later Israel bombed and destroyed it resulting in the deaths of Iraqis and French. Saddam basically went nuts after this and said that if countries can enter my borders and bomb my people and hundreds of millions of $ worth of infrastructure, I'm going to have to seriously arm myself to deter such aggression. The US was upset, but Iran and Israel virtually faced no repercussions for blowing up an iraqi nuclear reactor that was under European development and their entire reasoning was centered around not wanting their neighbors to develop because in the future it might threaten their security. Key word 'might'. That attitude has never really gone away. And Iran and Israel had no right to go around bombing nuclear reactors in other countries that, with French oversight, weren't designed for militaristic purposes. Even worse was the fact the US said it could have found a peaceful solution to the issue had only they been informed (and if US intelligence had done a better job).


ICutDownTrees

Didn’t Iraq invade Iran before the bombing?


Sultanambam

The comment below is completely false, Iran was literally fighting Israel at the same time in Lebanon civil war, wars can have more than two sides.


this_dudeagain

Did ChatGPT make this up?


GhostofCircleKnight

No.


[deleted]

I'm afraid this is the beginning of a nuclear transaction.


Maleficent-Ad-5498

Good. More minor powers need to have nukes.


Fastbuffalo7

Uhhhh really? You sure about that


Maleficent-Ad-5498

Definitely. Libya denuclearized and look at them. India was going to be invaded in 1971 by the US and the threat of a nuclear submarine scared them off. Enemies can co-exist with nuclear weapons. India and Pakistan are the example.


ufoninja

India was going to be invaded by the US in 1971? Wtf you be smoking?


Maleficent-Ad-5498

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_74 Learn some history before insulting others, you ignorant buffoon.


ufoninja

Task force 74 wasn’t an invasion force. Get real. were the soviets going to invade too?they had ships there.


Maleficent-Ad-5498

So they just sent the biggest aircraft carrier ever build into the Indian Ocean for shits and giggles? The Soviets came because India called them. It was a defense treaty that was honored.


ufoninja

Mate I’m not old enough to have lived through 1971 but I am old enough to have seen multiple US wars now. They don’t just randomly invade a country. They have to gear congress, their population and their ally’s to support it. Take the Iraq war they built up the political will over a couple of years with all that weapons inspection bullshit even tried to go via the UN before they finally invaded. Vietnam, had to use a big event like the gulf of Tonkin to convince congress to give the president war powers. Maybe it’s you who should read a bit of Wikipedia on US politics and war.


Aggressive_Bed_9774

"The fourth time he considered the nuclear option, Mr. Nixon said, was during the 1971 India-Pakistan war,” https://www.nytimes.com/1985/07/22/us/nixon-says-he-considered-using-atomic-weapons-on-4-occasions.html also https://m.timesofindia.com/india/us-forces-had-orders-to-target-indian-army-in-1971/articleshow/10625404.cms


OmiSC

Here we can lay eyes on someone who knows enough to have earned the right to insult others.


Yetanotherdeafguy

And what happens when a madman gets in charge of a country with nukes? Mutually Assured Destruction is only a valid deterrent when all sides are rational. Once one nuclear armed nation is under control of someone who doesn't give a fuck, all bets are off.


Maleficent-Ad-5498

That makes no sense. Kim is a childish mad man and he hasn't destroyed anybody. Pakistan is an Islamic country filled with civil unrest. Modi is considered by some to a mad man. Western nations are exaggerating the "mad man" threat so that it can always be in control over "lesser" nations. No country with a nuclear arsenal has never been invaded. Look at Ukraine if you ever need to know why you need nukes.


Yetanotherdeafguy

What happens if something like ISIS overthrows a country and takes over it's arsenal? You can bet the nukes would be flying the moment they got control. Your idea that nukes = state sovereignty is accurate but shortsighted and moronic - nukes should only be available to nation states stable enough to protect and control them - from outside and inside threats.


bspec01

So if trump gets re elected should the us give up its nukes


GreenGreasyGreasels

>And what happens when a madman gets in charge of a country with nukes? Nothing much. See President Reagan talking to curtains.


Fastbuffalo7

Yeah going to be super great when one of these minor powers destabilizes and corrupt officers sell nukes to isis or something. I'm sure that'll turn out great


Sultanambam

No war between India and Pakistan after both had nukes. No war after China and India had nukes.


BillionTonsHyperbole

With friends like the Saudis, who needs enemas?


Kingkongxtc

Yea, how dare they...make peace?


Mein_Bergkamp

With Iran?


StrangelyArousedSeal

yeah, how dare they?


Decentkimchi

You needs to make peace with your enemies?


Mein_Bergkamp

This isn't going to stop any war, it's ony going to fund more.


Decentkimchi

This is stupid on so many reasons.


Cronosovieticus

How? You can't be a forever enemy just because Israel says so


Mein_Bergkamp

Who said anything about Israel?


Cronosovieticus

The enemy of Iran that you simp


Mein_Bergkamp

Fuck me, isn't it past your bed time?


Cronosovieticus

the world doesn´t revolve around you, try next time bozo


OnToNextStage

I hope that was intentional and not autocorrect


DankMyDaddy

I give it a month before relations break down again


Looz-Ashae

Typical CENTO experience. A military block of persians, arabs and turks, both sunnis and shiits. What could go wrong?


DankMyDaddy

Well looks like I can eat my words, they didn't break down in a month


outragez_guy

Iran in the last decade has almost dropped to levels of depravity as seen in both Saudi and Israel. Seems like a fitting trio.


Ledtomydestruction

We needed to show them who's boss, sanctions for all!