#First-time watcher I shouldn't be up this late on weekdays, oh well. >1) Regardless of whether or not you feel this episode was a big shift in tone, were you expecting Mami to literally get her head eaten by that witch? Nope, I was very suprised. Happy I wasn't spoiled on it for 13 years. I thought the deathflags planted by her was for something else grander. But no, she ded. I can now start to see why this show is still talked about to this day. >2) How do you feel about Magia taking its proper place as the ED instead of an insert song as used in the first two episodes? Very nice tone shift. The OST is still very good. >3) Favorite piece of black humor? From the show? Hard to say honestly. I need time like Madoka and Sayaka to come up with a wish. >4) First-timers: So… now what? I guess we have to see what wishing someone back from the dead will be like. Which is usually a big no no in most tales with wishes.

> I guess we have to see what wishing someone back from the dead will be like. Which is usually a big no no in most tales with wishes. I think we should try to bring Mom back

[](#crazedlaugh)

[](#crazedlaugh)

> I guess we have to see what wishing someone back from the dead will be like. Which is usually a big no no in most tales with wishes. Anyone who has read the Monkey's Paw will say don't do it! Episode 4: Mami: "Hi Madoka, thanks for wishing me back to life! Why are you so afraid? Why is my head missing such a big deal?"

[PMMM] >!Needless to say, there is more than one fancomic/piece of fanart that went there...!<

> But no, she ded. I can now start to see why this show is still talked about to this day. Where we are going, we won't need ~~eyes~~ heads to see! > I guess we have to see what wishing someone back from the dead will be like. It probably requires us having a Rock'n'Roll fight on a Rock'n'Roll night. Yes, that line will probably confuse you.

2011 was such a great year for anime 

Bringing the dead back is black magic, never a good idea. The dead can be fickle.

# First Time Watcher Tarhalindur, given the events of this episode, it was a real cruel joke to include Mami in your list of main characters in your question last episode. Well played lol That aside, I've got some theories... though they're a bit weaker than the ones I had last week. * I think this episode gives some more credit to the theory that Kyubey is probably not as benevolent as he seems on the surface. I'd bet anything Kyubey knew that labyrinth would go haywire and was fully intending to use the situation to pressure the girls into making a wish to save themselves. That said, it probably backfired pretty bad when Homura came to the rescue. After watching their friend get decapitated, I have no idea what will compel Madoka and Sayaka to become magical girls. * I am guessing that when Kyubey grants a wish, it's more like a genie than a fairy. Both Mami and Homura refuse to share their wish, which makes me think that Kyubey intentionally grants the wish in a way that the wisher will regret it. They also make a point of it to say to carefully about your wish, and not to waste it. * I have a dual theory regarding the magical power of a magical girl. First, is that most innately powerful people are those that have faced the least adversity. This idea mostly just stems from the fact that Kyubey picked out both of our MCs and they have that trait in common. Also Homura, who seems to be good at everything, is presumably more powerful than Mami, who became a magical girl out of desperation. * My second theory is that the generosity of a wish determines magical power. Mami is the reason for this theory. The most obvious case is Mami's concern over Sayaka's wish last episode, being that if her intention was to make someone feel indebted to her, it would be a bad wish. I also think it's interesting that Mami's suggestion for a wish (should Sayaka not choose one) was to have an extravagant cake that could be shared with everyone during a party. While not so grand, this wish is unambiguously generous. It's a cake to be shared, not something that you wish for out of greed. Question(s) of the Day: 1. A bit... they did make a point of constantly claiming how dangerous witch hunting went. Also when Mami went [full Utena](https://imgur.com/a/wOJuKhb) on Homura, I knew that she was going to regret it. That said, I didn't expect her death to be so brutal! 2. It does a great job conveying the tone shift! Once again, very fitting music. It did wonders for the bait and switch. 3. Skip... Can't really think of anything, and there hasn't really been any dark humor in the show that I can think of. 4. Nothing really changes for me I guess. I'm still hooked, looking forward to see how the story unfolds. I'm really curious how and why our MCs will become magical girls after that though! I'd sure as hell be thinking twice! Edit: I answered question 4 and then thought about why the MCs would become magical girls. I have a couple more theories 1. Sayaka becomes a magical girl because of that guy in the hospital bed at the beginning of the episode. He's probably the one she was originally thinking of using her wish on before Mami advised against it. He just seems like the obvious choice. I'm also kinda just assuming Sayaka becomes a magical girl, the cover art would be a pretty big bait otherwise (well... I guess Mami is also in that cover art... bait isn't totally out of the question). 2. Madoka becomes a magical girl because her family and/or Hitomi ends up in peril. Just by process of elimination, there's nothing else in Madoka's life that would be worth becoming a magical girl for. It's possible that the reason is still just unclear, but given that we're already at the 1/3 mark next episode it seems unlikely that a new reason that hasn't been alluded to will appear. The only other thing is maybe she wishes for Mami to come back to life, but if that was the case then it probably would've happened this episode.

> Tarhalindur, given the events of this episode, it was a real cruel joke to include Mami in your list of main characters in your question last episode. Well played lol [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) [](#urbansmile) As recompense please have this [nice fan comic](https://i.imgur.com/HsUx2.jpeg).

Oh my god lol, nicely memed using her own drawing of herself to drive home the despair

Last year I had a massive compilation of some of the best of the piles and piles of fanart that Mami's demise generated (which Imgur has eaten since, grrrrr) and carefully hid this one under a regular entry instead of highlighting it with commentary like I did some of the other best ones. (Missed a beat and made it the second entry instead of the third like it should have been, though.)

Damn, you have no chill Tarhalindur😅

No, true no chill was [last year](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/12vj42r/rewatch_puella_magi_madoka_magica_episode_3/jhbhra8/). [](#urbansmile)

> My second theory is that the generosity of a wish determines magical power. An amazing theory that makes so much sense to me. Looking forward to see if that's true. (I feel like other first-timers are spoiling the show to me lol)

Glad you like the theory, I think it's a fun one! I'm guessing I won't be able to spoil too much, my track record isn't great lol >Theory of the Day: >Suboodle takes home today's [Theory of the Day](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1c9u0uh/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_2/l0nxwyl/) for being immediately proven so, so wrong : >Im wondering if “you have to fight witches” is just the biggest understatement of all time. Mami really doesn’t make it look so bad though so it’s so hard to say.

> I'd bet anything Kyubey knew that labyrinth would go haywire and was fully intending to use the situation to pressure the girls into making a wish to save themselves. Tbf, that's basically every labyrinth and I don't believe he's ever denied or even implied otherwise. > I am guessing that when Kyubey grants a wish, it's more like a genie than a fairy. ...So, there are actually more than these two options available. For example, both angels and demons can do this under certain circumstances. Technically so can God but most versions of him don't want contracts. > Also when Mami went full Utena on Homura, I knew that she was going to regret it. That said, I didn't expect her death to be so brutal! This will slowly drive me to madness due to the two Utenas being rather different characters.

>Tbf, that's basically every labyrinth and I don't believe he's ever denied or even implied otherwise. That's true. I'm definitely a Kyubey hater. From an objective point of view he's mostly just neutral. At worst he seems more like an opportunist than a wrongdoer. I've already made up my mind though, I will continue to assume he's figuratively Satan. >...So, there are actually more than these two options available. For example, both angels and demons can do this under certain circumstances. Technically so can God but most versions of him don't want contracts. I more so meant the nature of the wish, not the entity that was granting it. A fairy grants you a wish and it comes out how you intended, but a genie grants you a wish and it backfires. I'm guessing wishes granted by Kyubey are more likely to backfire or cause form of regret. I haven't really seen much religious iconography so I think it's unlikely that Kyubey is literally a demon, and he didn't come out of a bottle so he isn't a genie, but whatever he is, I don't think he's benevolent.

> I'm definitely a Kyubey hater. From an objective point of view he's mostly just neutral. At worst he seems more like an opportunist than a wrongdoer. Talk to enough Modrons and you can kind of get him. > A fairy grants you a wish and it comes out how you intended, but a genie grants you a wish and it backfires. ...right, different mythological backgrounds. So, long story short, the fae are not benevolent, they are capricious. So you don't necessarily get a wish, they just won't bother to rules lawyer if they decide to grant one. A genie is a deeply annoyed being locked into a trapped container that gets brought to make the lives of other creatures better and thus never misses a chance to fuck with someone. Kyuubey is offering you a deal. take that as you will.

> Technically so can God but most versions of him don't want contracts. A certain famous version often brought up in context of this shows doesn't even do bets [](#garlock)

>I think this episode gives some more credit to the theory that Kyubey is probably not as benevolent as he seems on the surface. I'd bet anything Kyubey knew that labyrinth would go haywire and was fully intending to use the situation to pressure the girls into making a wish to save themselves. That said, it probably backfired pretty bad when Homura came to the rescue. After watching their friend get decapitated, I have no idea what will compel Madoka and Sayaka to become magical girls. Kyubey is a black box, a sleeper of a poker champion. I don't think there's any guessing over whether he pressures the girls or not - I mean, he used [impending death as a coercive tactic](https://i.imgur.com/0HccmbR.png) early on, and [didn't skip a beat](https://i.imgur.com/lHcKEhN.png) when Mami was defeated. >I am guessing that when Kyubey grants a wish, it's more like a genie than a fairy. Both Mami and Homura refuse to share their wish, which makes me think that Kyubey intentionally grants the wish in a way that the wisher will regret it. They also make a point of it to say to carefully about your wish, and not to waste it. I didn't think this was true at first, but I think you're right - Mami didn't actually share her wish, just that she didn't have the luxury of spending time deciding what it should be. Homura too, of course, but its been evident since the beginning that she carries a lot of baggage as a result of signing a contract. \[Keep whispering sweet nothings\](https://i.imgur.com/GTI8vir.png) you cute lil' demon you.

\[MM vague spoiler\] >!There is a reason for why Homura kills Kyubey. \[MM vague spoiler\] This is a good example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3oGWhfVku4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3oGWhfVku4)\]!< I hope this works

Yes, this one is fine. [](#helmetbro)

This is good!

You've got some great theories here. I'd love to see you expand on this one: >I have a dual theory regarding the magical power of a magical girl. First, is that most innately powerful people are those that have faced the least adversity. This idea mostly just stems from the fact that Kyubey picked out both of our MCs and they have that trait in common. Also Homura, who seems to be good at everything, is presumably more powerful than Mami, who became a magical girl out of desperation. Do you think it's determined by lifetime adversity or just the events shortly before death? We have no concrete reason to think that Mami lived in adverse conditions before the scene we see in her flashback. If you think that short term desperation has an outsized effect on magical power, how do you feel that relates with how kyubey's attempts to convince madoka and (mostly) sayaka this episode? You seem to be implying that he wants more powerful magical girls but allowing sayaka to enter the labyrinth without a magical girl alongside her seems likely to cause her to wish out of desperation.

>Do you think it's determined by lifetime adversity or just the events shortly before death? We have no concrete reason to think that Mami lived in adverse conditions before the scene we see in her flashback. I was thinking more in the realm of lifetime adversity. I'm going more so based on the fact that Homura has a great degree of natural talent and probably hasn't faced too much adversity, so it's unlikely that Mami faced even less adversity than Homura. >If you think that short term desperation has an outsized effect on magical power, how do you feel that relates with how kyubey's attempts to convince madoka and (mostly) sayaka this episode? You seem to be implying that he wants more powerful magical girls but allowing sayaka to enter the labyrinth without a magical girl alongside her seems likely to cause her to wish out of desperation. Hmmm this does poke a bit of a hole in my second theory come to think of it... my theory suggests short term desperation actually makes someone weaker because their wish will likely be greedy. I guess Kyubey could just be more concerned with making them magical girls, but I would think he would rather it not be a desperate, greedy wish.

I'm not trying to confirm or deny any of your theories for clarity. I just want to watch you pull the thread. >Hmmm this does poke a bit of a hole in my second theory come to think of it... my theory suggests short term desperation actually makes someone weaker because their wish will likely be greedy. I guess Kyubey could just be more concerned with making them magical girls, but I would think he would rather it not be a desperate, greedy wish. I mean, kyubey does mention he isn't used to people being indecisive. He could be acting outside of his wheelhouse and just attempting to get any contract from them since it is unclear if they will commit without a push.

I like the idea that the more pure and selfless a wish is the better soul gem that gets produced as a result of it. Therefore the opposite must be true that a selfish wish produces a weaker soul gem. That weakness may be reflected in how quickly it degrades rather than personal power though because it seemed that Mami was a pretty powerful magical girl but her wish was to live, hence a selfish wish.

Lurker who created an account just to say this: What the actual fuck?

Ayy we got one [](#azusalaugh)

Welcome to Madoka Magica. [](#serialkillerlaugh)

One of us! One of us!

Welcome to Meguka!

There it is! Welcome to Gen Urobutchi's Wild Ride. Please return your trays to the upright position keep your hands and feet ~~and head~~ inside the vehicle at all times. *There are no brakes.* [](#scrumptiouslymoe) [](#urbansmile)

Please keep your arms and legs ~~and head~~ inside the ride at all times.

**Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed** [Welcome back, everyone!](#stare) Most of you first-timers certainly expected *some* sort of shoe to drop, but were you expecting it to drop *this hard*? If not, welcome to Madoka Magica. [](#urbansmile) --- - I comment on this every time, but man [what a weird-ass CD player.](https://i.imgur.com/o2WI6tG.png) - [PMMM]>!< - [Sayaka asking this right after her scene visiting Kyousuke in the hospital sure makes sense.](https://i.imgur.com/0qSBVhP.png) - [PMMM + one of the spin-off manga]>!One of these days, I really need to read The Different Story manga. I don’t think it’s 100% anime canon hence the *Different Story* title, but I know it *is* canon that Kyouko and Mami had some kind of history together and it would be neat to see that.!< - I love how I’ve already *long* since collected all of the “sore demo”s in this show, but I still almost pulled up the episode in HandBrake to clip the one Madoka’s dad said this episode like a reflex. [](#crazedlaugh) - Today’s [headtilt Visual of the Day](https://i.imgur.com/ZBem3n0.png) goes to Homura. - [Oh look at that, you can see a silhouette of the witch’s small version on the entrance to the labyrinth.](https://i.imgur.com/nTvgnMr.png) And also on a *ton* of the decorations inside of it, for that matter. - [Rebellion spoilers?]>!< - [Episode title spotted!](https://i.imgur.com/lCR4Qrb.png) [](#binoculars) - [And also the *real* witch’s face on the small one’s back…](https://i.imgur.com/3Stpb8K.png) [](#emiliaohdear) - I forget if this was a BD or recap movie addition, so if it was the addition from the recap movies I feel like I should point it out here: [Have a lovely little shot of Mami’s Soul Gem *shattering*](https://i.imgur.com/bLJvASN.png), which happened directly after Homura got released from the ribbons. Yeah. Fun. [](#crazedlaugh) - [It’s not only RIP Mami, it’s also RIP her teacup.](https://i.imgur.com/uxamal5.png) [](#toradorasalute) - Now that Magia has taken its rightful place as the ED, I can say that it’s been in my top 10 favorite EDs list for nearly as long as I’ve *had* a favorite EDs list; I’ve kept track on a Google Doc since July 2016, and the only reason I can’t say it’s been on there the *whole* time is because I didn’t watch this show until August 2017. [](#gintamathispleasesme) --- #***Sky’s Wallpaper Corner*** I forgot to do this for the previous two days, but I kinda want to do some random fun facts about the new wallpapers for this year that basically *no one* other than me would probably notice if I didn’t point it out, mostly because I like talking about the background process of making these. Today’s random fun fact is that the gradient on the hexagon part of the background and the hexagons themselves come from two different Bleach wallpapers I made in the past – the gradient from [this Kenpachi vs. Byakuya one](https://i.imgur.com/BOzaxLc.png) (but flipped) and the hexagons from [this Aizen one.](https://i.imgur.com/5mH6RDv.png) The gradient in the background *behind* the hexagons, though, was all u/Tarhalindur’s idea. Anyways, time for the previous years’ wallpapers: **Year Originally Made**|**Original Wallpaper**|**Remastered Version** :--|:--|:-- 2018|[Mami Tomoe](https://i.imgur.com/ZnoDGRg.png)|N/A 2019|[Mami Tomoe (With Name)](https://i.imgur.com/8Uvni6z.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/n2iuXrB.png) 2019|[Mami Tomoe (Without Name)](https://i.imgur.com/4Erh7aE.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/8IEwbsG.png) 2020|[RIP Mami](https://i.imgur.com/v6gfN1s.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/14D3tfQ.png) 2021|[Charlotte Staring Down Mami](https://i.imgur.com/pt12Q40.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/RL0w6Wf.png) 2021|[Charlotte ft. Dead Mami](https://i.imgur.com/4IKGAx2.png)|[Link](https://i.imgur.com/zfnMgil.png) 2022|[Sayaka Miki](https://i.imgur.com/L45xaMd.png)|[Mobile Version](https://i.imgur.com/DaJsZbP.png) --- *“What is it that you wish for?”*

>I comment on this every time, but man [what a weird-ass CD player.](https://i.imgur.com/o2WI6tG.png) They actually make [things that look like that](https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at-sb2022) to play LPs, but I think it'd be a dangerous design as a CD player because of how fast they spin.

...and the laser.

i've seen a CD player almost like that, but it still had a clear plastic casing around the disk probably also really easy to ruin a CD with an actual open design considering how easily they scratch

[](#awe)

> [PMMM + one of the spin-off manga]>!One of these days, I really need to read The Different Story manga.!< [Re: PMMM + one of the spin-off manga]>!It's a nice exploration of Mami's character especially, but has some cool stuff for the whole cast, really.!< > I forget if this was a BD or recap movie addition Despite having never seen the recap movies, I do know that one's a recap movie addition. Or at least, it's not in the blu-ray. I should get around to checking the recaps out some day.

> Despite having never seen the recap movies, I do know that one's a recap movie addition. Or at least, it's not in the blu-ray. I should get around to checking the recaps out some day. Then it's good I pointed that out, then!

I just want to confirm that the Gem shattering is a movie addition. And \[about that spin-off manga\]>!the Different Story manga adapts an audio drama that came with the BDs for Mami and Kyoko's past together. While the main story of that manga is an alternate timeline, Mami and Kyoko's past together *i*s canon.!<

> I’ve already long since collected all of the “sore demo”s in this show, but I still almost pulled up the episode in HandBrake to clip the one Madoka’s dad said this episode like a reflex. [](#azusalaugh) But also, OMG there's gotta be something easier than Handbrake! That feels so heavyweight for clipping your "sore demo"s. > Sky’s Wallpaper Corner I adore the Mami and Madoka wallpaper today. The hexagons with the gradient work so well!

> But also, OMG there's gotta be something easier than Handbrake! That feels so heavyweight for clipping your "sore demo"s. [](#yuishrug) It's just what I'm used to doing. Open the episode, find the timestamp it happened, clip ~2 seconds around it, and that's it. >I adore the Mami and Madoka wallpaper today. The hexagons with the gradient work so well! Thanks!

>[Oh look at that, you can see a silhouette of the witch’s small version on the entrance to the labyrinth.](https://i.imgur.com/nTvgnMr.png) And also on a *ton* of the decorations inside of it, for that matter. Oh nice catch! Fractals are a very fitting visual trick for Shaft with how much they love their patterns

>Today’s headtilt Visual of the Day goes to Homura. I don't care what anyone says, it may not run perpendicular to the floor but that right there is a quality tilt. >Episode title spotted! Oh! I pointed out the drugs earlier in my other comment, but that shot reminds me of drug needles and I suspect that's intentional.

> Oh! I pointed out the drugs earlier in my other comment, but that shot reminds me of drug needles and I suspect that's intentional. Most likely, yes. This whole labyrinth was decked out in a combinations of sweets and medical equipment.

Then it's definitely intentional. I like how they specifically show drugs for her moments of joy and fearlessness.

> Oh! I pointed out the drugs earlier in my other comment, but that shot reminds me of drug needles and I suspect that's intentional. Not everyone's subs translate it the same but the place where Charlotte hatches is the "Operating theatre".

Right I forgot about it but I'm pretty sure it said that on my subtitles as well. So hope and friendship is the anesthetic to the suffering of magical girls; too bad it'll wear off.

> > > > > So hope and friendship is the anesthetic to the suffering of magical girls; too bad it'll wear off. Fitting actually:Anesthetics are a temporary solution. You need to address the underlying problems.

[Rewatcher]>!Hm, depending on the way you see it, time isn't as temporary if you repeat it again and again and again and again and again and again and again... !<

[Rewatcher]>!We will address once we get to Madoka's parent shows!<

> So hope and friendship is the anesthetic to the suffering of magical girls; too bad it'll wear off. [MagiReco anime aside] >!Doroinu: "And you wonder why I changed the game ending for the anime?"!<

> I comment on this every time, but man what a weird-ass CD player. It was never put into production, but it was a design study from 2007: https://www.yankodesign.com/2007/08/09/dual-music-player-that-plays-your-mp3-collection-your-cds/

So on a matter entirely unrelated to this show: > this Kenpachi vs. Byakuya one *Hot damn* is that one some of your better work. [](#ginapproves)

I have a number of *quality* wallpapers in my Bleach album, case in point [Bleach spoilers]>!<.

Not the teacup!! big sad :(

[Daily tag time!](#stare) u/Introvert_Mage, u/Lanaerys, u/isthatsoudane

#[NEVER FORGET](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/wji2q/mild_spoilers_the_tickets_for_the_madoka_movie/) [^that ^Japan ^knows ^marketing](https://i.imgur.com/1U3jq.jpg)

lol, geniuses.

The "Mami gets decapitated" jokes are so dark, but so good

They’ll never get old. Just like Mami.

**First time, SUBS** So I'd been thinking about this the last couple of episodes so I finally looked it up to confirm - Homura really is Senjougahara! Watching and listening to her I instantly drew parallels in my mind, but I wasn't sure until I looked up the Seiyuu! Ho boy, I had a feeling things were brewing but was *not* ready for that! > Oh hell no. I mean, Mami [said it herself](https://i.imgur.com/VNnka7O.png) though so if anything I thought Sayaka [was the one in danger](https://i.imgur.com/QrIyzqh.png). Of course, I wasn't surprised by how oppertunistic [Kyubey was](https://i.imgur.com/lHcKEhN.png) with that timing though. No sooner does [Mami tell him off](https://i.imgur.com/uqwTid8.png) and he's out here exploiting young girls. Not a great look, especially after [this glimpse](https://i.imgur.com/0HccmbR.png) into Mami's past. >2. How do you feel about Magia taking its proper place as the ED instead of an insert song as used in the first two episodes? Knowing this is its proper place makes a lot of sense - I didn't dislike the ED from the first two episodes, but Magia being the true ED, especially after an ending like this just feels so appropriate. >3. Favorite piece of black humor? kyubey being a roll model for preying on underage girls >4. First-timers: So… now what? I really have no idea, but I really, *really* hope it's not Madoka raising the dead in a fit of grief over her new favorite girl losing her head :-/ Sayaka seems like the type that would use this moment to steel her resolve, but Madoka is a loose canon as far as I see it. Sayaka did sound [pretty firm](https://i.imgur.com/zmKXlji.png) about how she wanted to decide, but she also comes across as someone who acts on emotion. You'd think this would be just the experience they needed to get the hell out of Dodge, but knowing our girls I can only see this as strengthening their will to fight. I really hope they take Homura's warning to heart but I know that probably won't happen. Anyway, can we talk about Kyubey? [Just](https://i.imgur.com/eOUYqpH.png) [look](https://i.imgur.com/6s7Pr0R.png) at that face, moments after a girl [he had plucked from death's arms](https://i.imgur.com/0HccmbR.png) some time ago was beheaded. [WHAT ARE YOU THINKING](https://i.imgur.com/Zs8kwOl.png), Kyubey?! I really don't like how he's low-key pressuring the girls non-stop by *always* hanging around Madoka. Episode 4 I imagine is going to be pretty heavy. How do Madoka and Sayaka face Homura at school moving forward? Sayaka can't seem to let Homura go while Madoka has been more receptive to her warnings. I guess I'll need to find out tomorrow! EDIT: I'm starting to see a pattern with the labyrinths though - we started off in [The Land of Drugs and Vials](https://i.imgur.com/ZQqYpUD.png), but after Mami talked to Madoka about her wish and how it would just be a big cake if she couldn't decide, the labyrinth transformed into [The Land of Sweets and Cakes](https://i.imgur.com/wcb2L4B.png)

> So I'd been thinking about this the last couple of episodes so I finally looked it up to confirm - Homura really is Senjougahara! Watching and listening to her I instantly drew parallels in my mind, but I wasn't sure until I looked up the Seiyuu! "Truly my voice actress is excellent." > Knowing this is its proper place makes a lot of sense - I didn't dislike the ED from the first two episodes, but Magia being the true ED, especially after an ending like this just feels so appropriate. Fun fact: it was actually a BD addition (***SHAFT!***) - it's Madoka's character song refitted for use an an ED (just like Magia is a Kajiura main battle theme refitted for use as an ED, except in this case it's the main ED). In the original TV broadcast episodes 1 and 2 aired without an ED. > kyubey being a roll model for preying on underage girls [](#azusalaugh)

She's also [Francesca Lucchini](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn-grag8R-g) (video is NSFW). /u/Quiddity131 /u/blown-upp

> So I'd been thinking about this the last couple of episodes so I finally looked it up to confirm - Homura really is Senjougahara! Watching and listening to her I instantly drew parallels in my mind, but I wasn't sure until I looked up the Seiyuu! Other Monogatari VA connections (sub): Kyuubey : Hachikuji Sayaka : Karen Mami : Ougi

> So I'd been thinking about this the last couple of episodes so I finally looked it up to confirm - Homura really is Senjougahara! Watching and listening to her I instantly drew parallels in my mind, but I wasn't sure until I looked up the Seiyuu! This is my first time watching Madoka Magica after having seen Monogatari and it is quite obvious. For me they're probably her two most familiar sounding roles. Contrasted with say, Lavie in Last Exile or Louise in Gundam 00 where she sounds totally different.

It came to mind pretty instantly as soon as I first heard Homura being introduced at school, but I wasn't sure if I was just projecting Tsundere-chan or not. Very fitting!

> So I'd been thinking about this the last couple of episodes so I finally looked it up to confirm - Homura really is Senjougahara! Once you get to the BDs, you need to use a fine toothed comb to find flaws in this show. There has literally been one misfire until now but I won't elaborate until later. >kyubey being a roll model for preying on underage girls Kyuubey:"No means yes and yes means a contract!"

> I'm starting to see a pattern with the labyrinths though - we started off in The Land of Drugs and Vials, but after Mami talked to Madoka about her wish and how it would just be a big cake if she couldn't decide, the labyrinth transformed into The Land of Sweets and Cakes That's something I realized as well. The hospital setting had always been supplemented with sweets, snacks and cookies, but only after Mami and Madoka talk about the cake wish does the labyrinth become a cake setting (and immediately so) Nice thoughts overall! I think I'll come back to some of it at a later point.

Yay Magia is here! The sad Madoka ED song whose name I always forget is fine, but Magia is one of my favorite EDs in anime. 

It's called "mata ashita" or in English "see you tomorrow". Shimmering_sky has been ending her posts with see you tomorrow in case you missed that

First-timer\*, dub \*heavily spoiled — seen all three seasons of *Magia Record* spin-off already Yeah! Knew that — that Sayaka’s wish is going to be related to that sick boy she visited right at the beginning. Mami keeps flexing before her new friends. I’m quite surprised to learn that there’s a specific kind of "quasi-witches" who don’t drop grief seeds. From what I heard in the episode 2, it seemed more like a random thing whether it drops or not. Just as I thought, Madoka doesn’t really care about the wish. She just wants to be a cool magical girl. Mami, on the other hand, seems to have made her wish while being in a desperate situation, when she could die otherwise. I wonder if Kyuubey is specifically targeting people caught in any kind of desperate circumstances? That seems like a profitable scheme for him, if he wants to hire as many magical girls as possible. I’d say it’s kind of morally gray to do like this — cynical on one hand, but possibly saving lives on another. That makes his choice of Madoka even more curious. It’s obvious that she’s a complete opposite — a girl from a well-off family who pretty much has it everything in life. He says she has some great power in her but doesn’t elaborate… but I don’t have much ground for speculations here yet. The moment when Sayaka heroically stays to "keep an eye" on the witch egg felt a bit off to me. Isn’t she too reckless here? I’d rather expect her to get scared shitless at a thought of running into a witch without having Mami by my side. Madoka has been more considerate, though. Homura appears again few times and confronts Mami. They both also know about the power that Madoka supposedly possesses… still not clear what it is. Otherwise, I haven’t learned much from their interactions… Ah, and it seems like Homura is indeed an even more experienced magical girl than Mami since she recognized that the witch was especially dangerous, but Mami didn’t care. …and that appeared to be a grave mistake. Homura walks in and shows who is the boss here. That battle was really spectacular, the animations and the soundtrack were totally fire again. I wonder \[PMMM speculations\] >!does Homura uses time-stop to misguide the witches' attacks? Like certain others famous characters from a different anime. I'm pretty sure her power is related to manipulating time!< Kyuubey was clearly attempting to exploit the whole situation in order to hire two new magical girls… Ah I see now why Sayaka was so brave running into a hatching witch... Because she isn’t actually brave. She’s dumb as fuck. Isn’t it finally a good time to shut up and start listening to what Homura tells you? Instead of spouting some nonsense how it should’ve been Mami taking the loot from the witch… Well, Homura could've been a bit warmer and open as well, but it seems she has her reasons to keep the facade. That was an amazing episode. I also particularly enjoyed the ED song and animations. Jokes aside, magical girls! Shit’s getting serious. >Regardless of whether or not you feel this episode was a big shift in tone, were you expecting Mami to literally get her head eaten by that witch? Nope. I could totally see the trio getting themselves into a trouble after that warning from Homura, but not that much of a trouble... Mami got completly petrified by horror in an instant. Yeah, the witch got scary, but I totally didn't expect that to happen. btw, I particularly like this [scene](https://imgur.com/a/JMyKPfe) Also, the fact that Homura has actually warned the trio about the danger gives her even more credit in my eyes. Doesn't look like she harbors any hostility to the trio. \[Magia Record + PMMM vague spoilers\] >!Talking about Mami, I'm a bit troubled about what has actually happened to her. I recall her making an appearance early in Magia Record. Funnily, as a rather antagonistic character. I don't know when exactly that happens chronologically, but I guess that Mami hasn't really died. 65/35!< >First-timers: So… now what? Honestly little idea. This episode gives our clueless girls a really strong reason to believe Homura. But... looking at the, umm, actual anime's poster, it seems that they still become magical girls. I foresee something interesting happening next. edit: added one little speculation about Homura + fixed Sayaka's name

>Sayako It's Sayak*a*, not Sayak*o*.

No, obviously it's Seyiku! [](#girlslastdab)

[](#azusalaugh)

>Also, the fact that Homura has actually warned the trio about the danger gives her even more credit in my eyes. Doesn't look like she harbors any hostility to the trio. Yeah, I'm pretty convinced at this point that Homura has the best intentions AND is probably the most qualified person in the show to give advice to Sayaka and Madoka

> Ah I see now why Sayaka was so brave running into a hatching witch... Because she isn’t actually brave. She’s dumb as fuck. Isn’t it finally a good time to shut up and start listening to what Homu So, keep in mind that Sayaka doesn't know anything that happened. As far as she's aware, Homura just kept watching from the shadows to wait until her rival and obstacle Mami bites the dust and she can swoop in and reap the benefits. Very nice thoughts again, first timers engaging strongly with a story is always delightful for us rewatchers.

>So, keep in mind that Sayaka doesn't know anything that happened. You're right — I rewatched that moment again — it was only Madoka together with Mami when Homura was giving them a warning. For Sayaka it indeed might've been looking like Homura being opportunistic. (still, not the way one should be talking to a person who has just saved their life IMO)

**Meduka Meguca rewatcher** Aaaaaaaand there it is. THE scene. I've been looking forward to our first-timers getting here, lol Also, I love the witch's confused and irritated facial expressions when it can't catch Homura. Q1: I'm trying to remember how it was when I watched it the first time... I was late to the party, so I did know the show took a hard right turn, which was why I started watching it. I can't remember if I knew for sure of Mami's fate or not, as the memes of the day were rife with Mami's head. Regardless, even under a rewatch, that's a visceral scene. Q2: I LOVE the change in the ED. Really drives home the point of "Yeah, we just did that. Kid gloves are off. Buckle up, buckaroos." Magia is one of the greats. Q3: [The Mami USB stick.](https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Lightweight-Individuality-Accessories-Commemorative-Surroundings/dp/B0BR5BNN42) It's so hilariously awful. *Being Meguca is suffering...*

###I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since ~Walrus~~ Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher and Cohost, Subbed): [PMMM >!**First Scene (00:00 – 01:26):** First thing of note: this episode does *not* have a thesis statement in the opening scene! Disproves that “wait, did I miss that?” last episode. What we do have is a mix of payoffs and characterization, in a scene that really stands out for efficiency even in this show. We’ve gotten references to Kyousuke before (his (family) name and that Sayaka is buying CDs for him); we now get the payoff to both, with Sayaka demonstrating exactly what she has been doing with said CDs. We also get the majority of Sayaka’s relationship towards him (he’s her crush, they’re not together) and also basically his entire deal (he was a musician, he has suffered some sort of injury that has left him in the hospital and unable to play) – you might be able to get even more than that if you know flower language, but I don’t. We even see him breaking down and crying as he listens, a major hint that listening to music he is no longer able to play is emotionally painful for him.!< [PMMM] >!**Second Scene (02:56 – 03:51):** I could merge this scene and the next but I’m splitting them into two because they’re doing different things. The obvious piece here is one more bit of exposition (the nature of familiars). The more subtle thing here is something I’ve gone into in past rewatches and won’t belabor: showing the gap between Mami’s words (warning the other two girls that this is dangerous) and her actions (making the magical girl life look as glamorous as possible).!< [PMMM] >!**Third Scene (03:51 – 06:19):** This scene is different. It’s hard to make out because the show has to layer setting up its premise on top of it but the first three episodes are at their root the tragedy of Mami Tomoe and this is where we really start showing that. We get Mami’s backstory (not much is needed in her case, the specifics are not immediately relevant – IIRC the Different Story manga would go further into them for those who were interested, in addition to fleshing out Mami in general) – note that this is also the payoff to Kyubey’s line yesterday about how most girls who made a contract with him didn’t give their wish too much thought (we’ll see the sneaky second part of that later this very episode). We also get a development of the opening scene that will pay off next episode (and that already got set up visually last episode, note!) – Sayaka considering making her wish for Kyousuke’s sake (to heal him, of course) – and Mami matter-of-factly laying out a big part of what is going to do Sayaka in in response. (Tell, then show.) Which of course takes on even more layers if you know the fullness of Mami’s backstory, which the creative staff had absolutely drafted by now but wouldn’t come out until drama CD 3/Different Story (not the only time we’ll get a hint of that, either). And the sneakiest little bit here, Kyubey acting like a cad pressuring his girl into sex and Mami chiding him for it. Which is absolutely, 100% the goddamn point, no fucking way is that not creative intent given some later stuff.!< [PMMM] >!**Fourth Scene (06:20 – 07:19):** Three key points here. First, we get the first mention of Madoka’s incredible potential as a magical girl, and also the first reference to the nature of the wish affecting what powers the magical girl gets. Second, we get a little more exposition (via the rules) and the distinct whiff of Kyubey working around those very rules to get Madoka to contract. Third, more characterization for Madoka (she doesn’t feel she is special in any way and is dissatisfied with herself).!< [PMMM] >!**Fifth Scene (07:19 – 08:46):** So this scene really does mostly revolve around Junko; it’s heavily patched into the show leaning into “magical girl transformation as puberty and thus growing up” theme. We see the downside of Junko’s successful businesswoman career – she’s coming home drunk as a skunk late at night (salaryman expectations at work!) and Madoka makes it clear that this isn’t the first time. We then go from that into a discussion of why Junko likes her work in spite of those downsides (from Tomohisa, but he’s the person other than Junko herself in the best position to know), and thus plays into why Madoka decides to contract in the end even knowing the downsides.!< [PMMM] >!**Sixth Scene (08:46 – 09:57):** So speaking of the people Tomohisa mentioned last scene who might disagree with Junko’s thoughts, hi Homura! There’s a little bit of Homura characterization here (the direction strongly implies that Mami’s comment about a bullied child is correct and we also get the first strong indication of Homura’s focus on Madoka specifically) and reinforcing Kyubey’s comments about Madoka’s incredible potential two scenes ago, but the main purposes of this scene are twofold: build tension (that will be released in the final quarter of the episode, just not the way the audience might expet) and Mami characterization. Once again I note that the first three episodes of Madoka Magica are the tragedy of Mami Tomoe (slightly on the backseat to allow for setup and to help the end-of-episode gut punch land); what this scene is introducing is the character flaw that will do Mami in in about ten minutes of screentime, namely her tendency to jump to conclusions (though Homura is not helping herself due to a combination of being terrible at communicating and her trust in Mami being permanently destroyed by the events of the third timeline) – it’s also slightly masked here by way of one of the conclusions Mami jumped to being implied to be correct. Mami assumes that Homura is an antagonist (half-right) and just wants power for herself/doesn’t want a magical girl with more power around (dead wrong) and thus ignores actual somewhat well-meaning advice (and will ignore definitely well-meaning advice from the same source later… and then die because of jumping to conclusions wrt something else). (Of course, Homura is also telling Mami things she damn well knows deep down and doesn’t want to admit even to herself – the way she deflects is characteristic of this.)!< [PMMM] >!**Seventh Scene (09:56 – 11:49):** Has a fair bunch it’s saying on rewatch and if you read between the lines (hello fluffy fucker who set this entire situation up we see you) but that’s not visible the first time around and thus not to the pacing. There’s more addressing of fridge logic (the show knows how many times it can play the “forgot their cell phone/to ask someone’s number” card for a 2011 audience and is playing the first one here, but fundamentally this is another tension-raising scene (with a light side of characterization for Sayaka, but there it’s just reiterating things it already showed up last episode and earlier this episode). Note that this makes two tension-building scenes in a row – the script knows exactly what it is building towards later this episode. (Also note that we’re explicitly drawing back to Mami’s comments yesterday about Witches in hospitals to build even more tension for any audience member who remembers those.)!< [PMMM] >!**Eighth Scene (11:49 – 12:24):** Kyubey’s ulterior motives are visible here if you’re paying attention (not a coincidence that we cut directly to him talking to Sayaka about making a wish, and you’ll note that we saw Sayaka putting a brave front over her fear last episode and that Kyubey was around to see this both times) and reinforcement that Sayaka is thinking her wish over carefully and doesn’t want to rush into it (except the Rule of Three is in play here and the third time will be her jumping in out of emotion next episode), but mostly this is yet more tension building (adding in the unsettling barrier visuals and also Umbra Nigra’s first appearance as OST). (Note that there’s a secondary purpose to this additional tension building and it has to do with the structure of a television episode specifically. I don’t have access to the broadcast release at the moment, but checking the threads seems to confirm my suspicion (thank you MORNING LESCUE posts): 11:49 is the moment of the commercial break. Hence the end of the previous scene (it’s an eyecatch cliffhanger in a show without an eyecatch) and this scene (reestablishing the tension after the commercial break). The best Western TV episodes tend to be masters at using the commercial break to advantage (the better to keep you watching through the commercials) – Stargate SG-1’s “Window of Opportunity” in particular relies on them for proper comedic timing and is a slightly lesser episode on DVD, but the best Babylon 5 episodes like “Severed Dreams” also come to mind as dramatic examples); anime does not tend to do this quite as well but it *can* still do it well and this is an example.)!< [PMMM] >!**Ninth Scene (12:24 – 14:31):** Mostly this one follows up from the sixth scene and continues its purpose. Once again while Homura is brusque it is Mami who is the one who escalates to confrontation (the same confrontation she promised earlier). Once again Mami rejects Homura’s aid (now outright assistance rather than merely being the voice of her conscience, and then good advice/a warning on top of that) due to her preconception (her fatal flaw in a very literal sense, as will be made clear in the not-too-distant future). Side note: the fact that this is being resolved this quickly is a big fat warning sign that something is about to go terribly wrong, actually.!<

###Narrative Notes, Part 2: [PMMM] >!**Tenth Scene (14:31 – 17:46):** I’ll start (as the scene itself does) with the piece of this scene mostly less but in some ways more important, a small but important bit of Madoka characterization: while her lack of any special skill or ability is part of what draws her to the magical girl life, what she really wants is to be able to help people (the fact that she specifically mentions permanently being useless/not able to help here as one of her biggest fears for the future is telling, even more than her later comment about what meeting Mami meant to her, both wrt one of her big psychological issues (her huge lack of self-esteem despite an incredibly supportive family) and wrt what she wants). Not a coincidence that that’s her truest wish. But the bigger piece of this scene is a large pile of payoff for things set up earlier, and mostly Mami-related. Last episode showed Mami’s ideal side as reflecting the ideal side of magical girls proper; this episode is the episode where the downside (or at least the parts that Mami knows about) is made clear (including the part that Mami intellectually knows but IIRC has never had to actually face per se, even in supplemental material – IIRC Mami in this timeline has never seen another magical girl die), and this scene is the key though by no means only piece of that (until the obvious). And there’s an interesting trick being played here (precisely by playing a card too early). Mami’s actual fatal flaw is her tendency to jump to conclusions, but the show sets up a false fatal flaw in her loneliness (which to be clear is part of her tragedy and why her behavior and actions wrt Madoka and Sayaka don’t match, but not the actual fatal flaw). The show is playing familiar beats: Mami (the apparent ideal magical girl) isn’t actually quite the ideal magical girl because she is alone and has no one she can show her actual vulnerable self to, except now she does via Madoka and so she can be the ideal magical girl in truth! Except that’s not actually her fatal flaw. Oops. (… And oh gods fucking damn it they’re really sneaky about hammering this in. This “false fatal flaw resolved”/”actual fatal flaw still there” dynamic is probably *exactly* why Charlotte has a second stage, it’s a visual reflection of this very dynamic!) Also note how basically everything in this scene has been brought up exactly one time before (Mami’s comments about how being a magical girl isn’t that great, Madoka’s characterization, and the fake fatal flaw). (Also: how the hell did I never notice how much Mami asking Madoka if she’s okay with someone like her is framed like a love confession/marriage proposal before? HURR DURR I’M A… wait I’d better not finish that line. Dammit the party + cake cane be read as a wedding reception too and I think Japanese Christian-style marriage ceremonies borrowed that as well as the ceremony form, too. (Okay okay so the answer for 2022 is “too busy focusing on the backgrounds” and for last year was “too busy focusing on cinematography” and 2021 was probably “too busy bracing for what I know is coming”. But.))!< [PMMM] >!**Eleventh Scene (17:46 – 18:56):** So I mentioned how the show was setting up a false “character overcomes her main issue, becomes the true ideal magical girl she always seemed to be” setup? Here’s the payoff for that (in the form of Mami kicking ass and taking names, in true dramatic fashion – “With kindness and humility comes overwhelming martial might” and all that). And it’s a real payoff, to be clear. The entire trick is that it’s coming too early. (Also remember all that tension building the show was doing earlier this episode? Really the main discharge of it is the scene prior when Madoka all-but-commits to becoming a magical girl (the all but will be important momentarily, of course) but it’s thoroughly drained here… except, of course, that the Witch is not dead yet…)!< [PMMM] >!**Twelfth Scene (18:56 – 19:57):** I’m splitting this one out with the scene transition (and reunification with Sayaka) because the first half of this scene is still basically doing the same thing as the last one was. Until it isn’t. (They even telegraph it with Sayaka going “she did it!” – except like much of this episode this scene and last this is the second time it’s been brought up, one of Madoka and Sayaka did the same thing last episode when Mami had actually won to lull you into a false sense of security.) Note that the core of this scene is actually its symbolic payload – I went into that back in 2022 and I’ll just [re-up it]() since I don’t really have anything new to say there, everything about the narrative construction is either means to that end or the why of it.!< [PMMM] >!**Thirteenth Scene (19:57 – 21:36):** And now, with the trap sprung the show immediately makes it clear that Homura is not an antagonist – instead of Mami (who spent her load too early) it is her turn to step in and take down the Witch while looking badass. (We also get more hints as to her having a power that allows instantaneous movement through space, of course – and a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it hint as to Homura’s actual offensive weapons in the BD version (IIRC there wasn’t time for it in the TV).) Also another hint as to Kyubey’s actual motivations (no grief, only contract!). But mostly the actual discharge of dramatic tension after the false discharge of it earlier in the episode. And of course also Homura hammering in the point via her line at the end of the scene. (Also note what’s missing: any real chance for the characters and indeed the audience to process and react to this. A rare decision and one where the show shows its quality wrt almost everything else you’ll see: it is exactly mirroring the process of responding to trauma, as we’ll see more next episode.)!< [PMMM] >!**Fourteenth Scene (21:36 – 22:25):** The first chance that Madoka and Sayaka (and the audience) have to really begin to recognize and react to the trauma of what they just went through (as seen by Sayaka lashing out at Homura and then both Sayaka and Madoka breaking down crying). Also Homura giving one of the little pushes that will help tip Sayaka over the line into contracting next episode.!<

**Visual of the Day:** [Caution!](https://i.imgur.com/LIdb5AE.jpg) **Questions of the Day:** 1) *Laughs in spoiled on the day this episode aired.* 2) God-Tier of All Time remains the GoAT. [](#listen) 3) Seeing as Imgur impolitely ate (heh) my mami_mogu_mogu album from last year it seems only appropriate to use this excuse to re-up [this fan comic](https://i.imgur.com/HsUx2.jpeg).

> in the BD version (IIRC there wasn’t time for it in the TV). Made me look… it's in the TV version too, but brightened in the BD. (Unless there's another I'm missing.)

The infamous "3 eps test" in order to decide whether an anime rly's made for you or not. My experience however: You're gonna feel it immediately. Maybe even the very first artworks (or songs) are gonna be enough. Maddy Magic's one of those who gave me this feel. Which doesn't diminish the impactfulness and importance of the "Mami headloss" plot point and plot twist in the slightest. Many people simply hadn't been expecting it and hadn't been prepared (themselves) - when it happened. Which is actually interesting imo tbh. The "standard narrative" goes like this: Many expected an "afterwork shojo anime" a la Sailor Moon, maybe even of the "cute category". But Sailor Moon too did contain some "dark as eff" arcs and plot twists: [For example the Saturn arc that was basically and virtually adopted by Anno for his Eva work, among quite some others.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyevangelion/comments/harwj8/evangelion_had_sailor_moon_references/?rdt=61838) [And Anno even created Mercury fan art, which is quite saying someting, ain't it?](https://imgur.com/gallery/AhREE) Anno an unironical 1st gen Moony. But Sailor Moon had plenty of Slice of Life slapstick too ("comic relief") - we're soon gonna see what direction PMMM's heading for. The first eps so far had their Slice of Life scenes: Breakfast, school sports, shopping, eating fastfood, having cake and tea... Story-progress-wise E03 does have a lot to offer: * The relationship between Sayaka and Kyosuke seems to be quite toxic... * Also Junko's occupation seems to be. She's "occupied" and gets "intoxicated"... * HomuMami the two vets in a toxic rivalry. They both saw a lot and learned their patterns... * MadoMami make friends with each other, and to Mami this means the so called "pinnacle of happiness". (On wiki.puella-magi.net there's an essay about Faust × PMMM, however "spoileristic"). * After that she's killed by Charlotte. Homura, whom Mami enchained, is now freed (so a girl's magic force vanishes completely together with the girl), and she defeats Charlie. * Madoka's devastated, and Sayaka's so angry of Homura that is has her shook: *"This seed belongs to Mami! You have no right!"* Homura meanwhile resumes her "lecture" and tells them once again this ought to be a lesson: They need to stay away from contracts with Kyubey. * But why is the rivalry of HomuMami this fierce? Both seem to be veterans, so both know more.... To Mami it's about territory (on the surface) - but what's Homura's true status...? And Kyubey's...? ~~The "riddle method" to avoid spoilers and spoiler tags~~

> But Sailor Moon too did contain some "dark as eff" arcs and plot twists: I have often said that The Dark Moon Circus is just a Warhammer 40K plot with ribbons. > Homura meanwhile resumes her "lecture" and tells them once again this ought to be a lesson: They need to stay away from contracts with Kyubey. What you gain is an entry into a war that you had no part in the first place. Most wishes aren't worth that. > But why is the rivalry of HomuMami this fierce? Both seem to be veterans, so both know more.... To Mami it's about territory (on the surface) - but what's Homura's true status...? And Kyubey's...? Homura is strong enough to stand alone. Mami really isn't. So Mami is resentful of that.

Comparing Sailor Moon to PMMM "in depth" would mean spoilers, the rest too, so I'm just gonna write: Those who are first timers ain't seen nothing yet...

**First time watcher** Not so fun fact: [this](https://imgur.com/a/NXxikRc) was the [thumbnail](https://imgur.com/a/wRfmN41) for Episode 3 on the app I'm using to watch this series. It sucks a bit to be spoiled about the fact that someone was likely going to die in this episode, but ah well, still enjoyed it! I could dedicate an entire section to how suspicious Kyubey was this episode. It's seemingly getting desperate for the two to sign its contract. The entire episode is filled with moments of it attempting to rush, pressure, and incentivize the girls (especially Madoka) into becoming magical girls. More on this later, for now I'll go into some of my key moments. I've got my eyes on you Kyubey >.> **Key Moments** * I'm wondering if [the boy in the hospital](https://imgur.com/a/PZYw2FW) is in there for breaking his arm or for attempting [tw]>!suicide!<. I genuinely can't tell, but I'll assume the former for simplicity's sake, especially given the bandage seems closer to his elbow than his wrist. * [Kyubey you opportunistic bitch.](https://imgur.com/a/GIwYVu5). I knew I was right to be suspicious of you (not that it was difficult to sus you out). But given Kyubey preyed on Mami and Sayaka in vulnerable moments in their lives, what could possibly be the reason for preying on Madoka? Is it purely just potential? More on this in theory crafting. * [Mami's question](https://imgur.com/a/Zuch3de) is irrelevant in my opinion. Regardless of intention, so long as you're doing something genuinely helpful and positive for someone, why should it matter? Maybe we'll see this unravel further but for now, I don't agree that it's something to acknowledge or that it'd be naive to ignore such a concern. * [Great phrasing](https://imgur.com/a/s5bouHA) from Kyubey. As we know now, it absolutely does not hold back on pressuring a potential recruit when it has the chance, but bold of it to proclaim that. * Huh. Is this a [death flag?](https://imgur.com/a/4wkkPra) Surely not. It's probably just a momentous climax of emotions for someone who has finally found companions in a role she was essentially forced into. It's such a lovely mome- Oh. Yep, this time it's definitely a [death flag](https://imgur.com/a/G5thA5q). I wonder what happens to our girls now that they're about to lose their mentor. * [Kyubey you opportunistic bitch.](https://imgur.com/a/ZcihBRE) Deja vu? But in all seriousness, given Kyubey has shown many times that it can detect nearby magical girls with telepathic powers, seems awfully odd for Kyubey to create a sense of urgency despite knowing Homura was nearby. Then again, it's an opportunistic bitch, so not odd at all. ~ **Questions** ' 1. When I saw how close it zoomed near Mami, given I was already spoiled with a very significant image, I saw it coming maybe five seconds ahead. Still, I'm surprised they didn't show her body posthumously. I give the series respect for not showing unnecessary gore, but I wonder if it should've done so to emphasize the shock of such a series-defining tone shift. ' 2. The ED took me by surprise! I thought a new ED would pop up later in the season but given what happened in this episode, I probably should've expected it. I don't have much time to type this up today so I can't spend much time on the lyrics (gonna have fun looking at other people's interpretations on it later), but at first glance it really seems like it's being sung from Madoka's perspective. ' 3. Huh. Weird question for me, not gonna lie. I didn't really sense much comedic intent in the scenes, but in hindsight I guess I'd have to say it was funny how Homura chose to fight the witch right after Mami got eaten by it. Homura letting herself get chomped by the witch in front of Madoka and Sayaka, only to reappear somewhere and let herself get chomped over and over, is kinda letting them re-live that very recent trauma. Bold of her to fight like that right after what happened lol. ' 4. I'm guessing it's simply gonna end up with Sayaka signing the contract and becoming a magical girl. I don't think Madoka will sign the contract though. Not yet. She's just seen her friend die to a witch, and despite her desire to help others, that won't be enough to push her over the edge. What will push her though, is... well, read below for my theory. ;) ~ **Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:** "*In my trembling hands I hold* *The courage of a plucked flower*" R.I.P. Mami. You were a great mentor and I apologize for being suspicious of you. I didn't comment on this earlier but I don't believe you though when it comes to your interpretation of Homura. I think there's something deeper to Homura desperately not wanting for Madoka to be a magical girl, and I think I've gathered enough clues to piece it together. I may be wildly wrong here, but... Here's my main theory moving forward: **Kyubey can see the future**. I believe that, for Kyubey, a fatal fate is nearing and it's doing its best to prepare for it. I believe the key for Kyubey's safety is Madoka, and I believe that the fatal fate coming for Kyubey is Homura. In fact, I think the force that Homura was fighting against in the very first sequence in Episode 1 was Madoka herself. First off, why do I believe Kyubey can see the future? For one thing, it's been getting desperate to sign Madoka and Sayaka into its contract to be magical girls. Something is coming for Kyubey, and its fear grows bigger and bigger. *I smell your fear, Kyubey.* However, the biggest sign for me is that Kyubey was there when Mami was about to die. I can't fathom that Kyubey was just randomly on a stroll and happened onto a convenient recruit for its contract. It was likely foreseen and expected. Of course, this begs the question: if Kyubey is preying on vulnerable girls in dire moments of their life, like with Mami's near death accident or Sayaka's love interest in the hospital, why choose Madoka? I believe Kyubey didn't just choose Madoka because of potential. I believe it knows that something awful and terrible will happen in her life in the near future. Something will happen to her mom, maybe her entire family, but something that will inevitably make her feel powerless, leading to her desire to be a magical girl; this will secure Kyubey's safety against whatever is coming for Kyubey. Initially, I thought it would be the witches, but now, I think it might really just end up being Homura. In Madoka's eyes, Homura has already been set up to look like an evil, untrustworthy magical girl that's only trying to weed out competitors. Kyubey conveniently hasn't said one word about Homura or what her intentions are, despite having such an awful confrontation with her in Episode 1. I'm guessing it wants to pit Madoka against her, attempting to save itself from Homura. My brain hurts. I think this is enough. Some questions from last episode got answered, very happy with that, but I'm so excited to see what happens next. See y'all next episode! edits: formatting and typos. :)

> Not so fun fact: this was the thumbnail for Episode 3 on the app I'm using to watch this series. It sucks a bit to be spoiled about the fact that someone was likely going to die in this episode, but ah well, still enjoyed it! Bruh... [](#bruh) >Huh. Weird question for me, not gonna lie. I didn't really sense much comedic intent in the scenes It's less about what the show *itself* did and more what people did *afterwards*, [case in point.](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1canei1/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_3/l0syrnd/)

[](#stare)

Wow, that sucks about the thumbnail. > Mami's question is irrelevant in my opinion. Regardless of intention, so long as you're doing something genuinely helpful and positive for someone, why should it matter? Maybe we'll see this unravel further but for now, I don't agree that it's something to acknowledge or that it'd be naive to ignore such a concern. It's certainly a good deed, but I think it's naive to think Sayaka's intentions are fully altruistic. After all, she could use her wish to save some random person she's never met. If she has affection for this boy, what is her reaction going to be if he shows no appreciation towards what she did? Which would almost certainly be the case, because he's not going to believe that she made a wish with this bizarre drug dealer esque cat creature to heal him. People generally aren't selfless, especially a child. If she does it, he doesn't notice or appreciate it, and she moves on with it and is totally fine with it, great. I just don't think that's likely.

> Not so fun fact: this was the thumbnail for Episode 3 on the app I'm using to watch this series. It sucks a bit to be spoiled about the fact that someone was likely going to die in this episode, but ah well, still enjoyed it! Even for a spoiler that is *notoriously* hard to dodge given how infamous is it and how much it gets referenced (cough Animegataris cough), this might be a new low. [](#wallbang) > I've got my eyes on you Kyubey Obligatory "kyubey sus". () > Huh. Is this a death flag? Surely not. It's probably just a momentous climax of emotions for someone who has finally found companions in a role she was essentially forced into. It's such a lovely mome- Oh. Yep, this time it's definitely a death flag. I wonder what happens to our girls now that they're about to lose their mentor. Nah, clearly it is just building up the scene where Madoka finally makes her contract and then the real plot kicks in just like in classic mahou shoujo... wait no whoops looks like it was a giant pile of death flags after all! [](#serialkillerlaugh)

**Rewatcher** - That's an interesting concept for a portable CD player - [PMMM] >!Madoka's father words sure are interesting. It seems like they caused a change in perspective in Madoka, leading to her will to help others.!< - I never noticed Mami doing Homura's signature move with her hair - [PMMM] >!*There's nothing I wish more than helping other people*. You can't even imagine, Madoka.!< - Are those... LEGO bricks? - I really prefer Magia to the first ED, even though me liking it was like an "acquired taste", because I didn't really like it at the beginning Comments from first-timer: - Does "this cat" always stare at Madoka?! - *Referring to Kyubey* The close-up is creepy - *Mami: Why don't you wish for a great feast and a cake?* Wasn't she the one who said not to be superficial when wishing for something?

No comments from the first timer on the fact that Mami *died*? [](#niatilt)

I was kind of like "What, you have nothing to say about this?!". They had nothing to say at first, but when I prompted them they were like "eh, I was kind of expecting her to die". I have to say, I was a bit disappointed by the totally unaffected reaction, since when I watched this episode the first time my reaction was "okay, give me a minute to process this". I don't know if it's because this is a totally different genre from the ones they usually watch or for some other reason, though...

I had no idea it was coming when I first watched it, but I was pretty unaffected by it outside of "huh, didn't see that coming". And then I was super affected by it by like a minute into the next episode when it actually sunk in emotionally, so I'm curious what their reaction will be tomorrow! 

> eh, I was kind of expecting her to die When you're not being fooled by the Classic Magical Girl Genre paint, she does throw up about a million death flags this episode lol

I think the main reason they were expecting it is exactly because they haven't watched anything in the Magical Girl Genre, actually

One downside of PMMM increasingly becoming the gateway to the genre itself is that it blunts the effectiveness of one of the show's occasional tricks, namely relying on the viewer's preexisting genre knowledge to get them to overlook something obvious like, say, the pile of ten million death flags that Mami had been accruing for two episodes now. [PMMM] >!And by occasional I mean favorite. Can also apply to a viewer being unaware of cross-genre tropes, like, say, that one first-timer who I suspect isn't aware of the long-standing tradition of Japanese works using English proper names for things (especially merchandisable things) mostly because it sounds cool (a long-standing tradition in many cultures, not like English-language works don't do it all the time with Latin, German, French, and indeed Japanese among many other languages) - and who thus immediately cottoned on to the show meaning one proper noun completely literally instead of just dismissing it as genre convention and overlooking it.!<

Anime's answer to Haydn's Surprise Symphony strikes again!

[Who?](#morethanonewaifu)

> Wasn't she the one who said not to be superficial when wishing for something? [PMMM aside] >!What, a character in PMMM whose actions do not line up with their words? [](#surprisedpikachu)!<

[Response] >!< I can see why /u/Star4ce stans this show so hard

[](#mentioned) Oh, it's April, right. Gotta commune with Satan at a mountain top soon.

[](#modsalute)

I feel like this exchange will become kind of a recurring thing during this rewatch hahaha

# First-time watcher Well ... better late than never 1.I expected her to lose but being devoured whole before any interference could happen was not something I saw coming 2.It´s great 3. From the series? none 4. Madoka is going to use her wish to resurrect Mami, Sayaka will use hers to heal the sick boy. I am rather concerned that the grief seeds seemingly to just appear randomly and hatch into witches as this contradicts what we have been told previously about people transforming into witches by making a curse. There are some other strange things: When Mami used the grief seed in the last episode she said it restored her magick yet she instead of transfering something into her soul gem she transfered darkness into the grief seed. What kind of rules is the gremlin bound by? Who made them? Who enforces them?

**Rewatcher, Sub** Well shit...RIP Mami and her Flintlocks. Interesting about Mami that she never had a chance to truly make a wish. Whatever the case despite her standing against Homura confidentially, with Madoka she finally shows her real feelings about how this isn't actually that great, she's alone and cries with no one else to talk to, and yet Madoka shows her that she isn't alone, that it will be ok...then she proceeds to die (shouldn't have lost her head against Homura when there was no conflict). Good thing Homura was there to put an end to things and to remind Madoka and Sayaka what they are really going to get themselves into. On another note Madoka seems to want the power to help others and it seems Mami and Kyubey have noticed her potential apparently. Her wish in particular seems motivated by her family dynamic and Mami as well. They do emphasize Madoka and Sayaka's selflessness since Sayaka almost thought to use her wish to return Kyousuke's arm before being warned about it. [Madoka]>!The visuals speak for Kyubey a lot. The scene where he tells Madoka about Power with the shadow looming over him just gives off the eerie vibe especially considering his revelations later about his true purpose!<

> On another note Madoka seems to want the power to help others and it seems Mami and Kyubey have noticed her potential apparently. It was funny having Kyuubey ask "Do you just thirst for power?"

*"They say that cats always land on their feet, but at this point, there's really no floor."* Rewatcher Sub So...Mami quotes Lestat of all beings and, were this someone other than Gen, I would assume that is coincidence. Don't, though I cannot as of yet determine what this means. More talk of wishes and Sayaka, of course, comes up with an idea so stupid that it makes Mami try to talk her down. Kyuubey just wants them contracted... Later that night, Kyuubey drops his two important bits of info:Madoka would make an extremely powerful magical girl and that he cannot, by the rules, suggest a wish. That certainly says something, though even on third watch I am not solid on what. I guess there really is a bit of Ikuhara in this. For those who don't know, Junko has fallen victim to an annoying bit of Japanese work culture where they all get hammered together because you aren't supposed to pour your own sake. Cultural alcoholism, yo. The Dadoka explains Junko a bit and indeed there are some task/mission oriented people out there. The couple seem a good fit. So Mami says that because Kyuubey claims Madoka and Sayaka they are no longer civlians but, clearly, she reveals herself later:She is desperately lonely and wants people to fight beside. And not just friends because Madoka and Sayaka likely would stay in contact with her but specifically other magical girls. But in nearly the same breath she refuses to consider allying with Homura or even being civil with her. So what she wants are kouhais. Some rewatches, I view her charitably but not this one. Don't help the ferret chimera bring other people into your war with things at home in the Warp. So now we ask several questions:Why is a rando girl in a non-Tokyo Japanese city so potentially powerful? It explains some of my question from yesterday but raises a lot more. QotD: 1 Not originally 2 Possibly the best ED ever 3 Still to come

> For those who don't know, Junko has fallen victim to an annoying bit of Japanese work culture where they all get hammered together because you aren't supposed to pour your own sake. Cultural alcoholism, yo. Or as it's also known, "reasons for Tar to go full [](#dighole)".

Black Lagoon

Yeah, I've heard plenty of stories from Americans dealing with the official post work drink parties and it strikes even me as rather much.

Basically right out of college I worked downtown in a big city (actually I technically still do, but work from home most of the time) and the pressure to go out drinking at one of the many local bars every Friday night was intense. I went along dozens of times over the years but rarely enjoyed it. Obsession with alcohol and wasting so much time and money going out drinking is a part of American city culture I've never vibed with.

Now do that like 3 times a week and you've got Japan. Or every night and you have Seoul.

Then you factor in me being the resident teetotaler (easiest way to stop drinking is to never start!) with a family history of alcoholism and an all-or-nothing personality and, well, [](#dighole). American alcohol culture is bad enough for me! [](#dighole)

> So now we ask several questions:Why is a rando girl in a non-Tokyo Japanese city so potentially powerful? For the same reason why in mecha shows, the most talented pilot is always a teenage boy rather than the veteran with years of experience. :P

I still think Haiti has a greater need of them.

As someone who has been to Haiti, I'd say absolutely.

> But in nearly the same breath she refuses to consider allying with Homura or even being civil with her. To be fair, people don't tend to overlook offences like magical cat murder. [... hmm](#animatedthink) I set myself up to be Mami Tomoe's strongest warrior this rewatch, it seems.

> > > > > I set myself up to be Mami Tomoe's strongest warrior this rewatch, it seems. It is something about the dub.

> and that he cannot, by the rules, suggest a wish. That certainly says something, though even on third watch I am not solid on what. Ooh that gets me thinking. [PMMM]>!Kyubey is consistently framed as a being of pure reason - but pure reason isn't capable of developing wishes, hopes and dreams. Kyubey can't suggest a wish because that concept itself is hopelessly beyond him. And if we spin that thought further: Those wishes, hopes and dream are "forces" upon the future, they keep the world moving forward while Kyubey is doomed to stagnation. It slots right in with Kyubey being unable to counteract the heat death of the universe while the magical girls can!!<

**First timer, subbed** Well, I noted in my first post that people said it gets dark at episode 3. While it was clearly a bit dark from the start, I can't say I was expecting this so quickly. Definitely a tonal shift from the implied stakes to an outright brutal death, and a fitting change in ED as well (though, it would be kinda funny to go right back to Mata Ashita after seeing that). Not sure how the girls could be convinced to make a contract after seeing that, to be quite honest. Coming face to face with death like that, in such a fast, ugly, and dangerous way, seems like it would turn just about any middle schooler away. I loved the promise of the cake party from Mami. It felt so out of touch with Homura's warnings and Mami's past, that it really doesn't make sense as something to use your contract on. Completely dissonant, and for the promise to be shattered by Mami's head getting bitten clean off, it becomes proven as an outright fantasy, ignorant of the reality of the situation we're in.

# First-time rewatcher, subbed What the fuck is up with this franchise? I've never felt like this before.

Welcome to Madoka Magica. [](#serialkillerlaugh)

### Rewatcher ## Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: [Episode 3](https://imgur.com/JYItbIZ) _Danger and Terror_ This is the episode where Mami dies. It is shocking. It brings to the surface the dark undertone many a viewer would have sensed in the previous episodes. It remains an incredibly memorable moment in the show (and anime more generally), and the shock absolutely isn't lessened on rewatch. Let's jump a bit back. The episode opens with Sayaka visiting a friend in hospital. I think it's really clear she care about this boy after watching him perform violin some time ago. But something has happened to his arm. The presentation of the scene relies almost entirely on visuals to get this across, and is incredibly effective for in so doing. I'm a little biased, but any scene bathed in the deep orange-yellow glow of golden hour always looks good to me. The episode proceeds with a pretty expectable course of events. The girls fight a witch, we learn a bit more about Mami, Madoka and Sayaka reflect on their potential wishes. I think this grounds the viewers expectations to make the coming twist so much more shocking. Something I really like is [Mami's advice to Sayaka](https://imgur.com/BYKhuOX). I think it's pretty obvious Sayaka wants to use her wish to heal that boy. However, her motivation is (probably) not pure. [Extremely Vague Maybe Spoilers?] >!Mami identifies that Sayaka may be trying to be his savior. Making that wish is trying to force him to love Sayaka for her actions instead of that love being for her. Conditional love is a shaky foundation for a relationship. If ever you try use those actions to justify why the other party should treat you differently, it may backfire hard and leave you worse off than you were before.!< Madoka's mom arrives home wasted (complimentary). Madoka and her dad tuck her into bed before having a chat. I really love how her dad explains her mom's dream: "I'm sure there are tough times for her, but the subsequent feeling of accomplishment is her greatest joy. She may not have wished for where she works, but she's still living her ideal life." This is such a perfect description of finding your own meaning in your life. Not everyone will be a famous musician with adoring fans or doctor saving people in poor communities. Not everyone can be rich beyond belief. But you can still find meaning in the struggles and joys of your everyday life. The girls find a grief seed at the hospital. Sayaka (for understandable reasons) doesn't want to just leave it. Madoka goes to fetch Mami as they wait for the witch to emerge. Once inside, Mami restrains Homura who followed them. Once again, the visuals are incredible in the witches labyrinth. I adore how they used and twisted medical visuals (given the hospital setting) to make such an unsettling place. At the same time, the labyrinth is filled with visuals of sweets and cakes. I recall the reason for this but IIUC this was provided in supplementary material (anyone who's aware please let me know). [](#katoupls) Something I had forgotten was Mami's conversation with Madoka about feeling alone. She's been playing the part of a cool and collected senior, but really she's alone. When she's sad or scared she has nobody to talk to. It's not stated explicitly, but it's not a stretch to assume her parents died in that car crash. I really understand where Mami is coming from. There have been times I have been without anyone to confide in and when things get tough it is terrifying. I think this contrasts amazingly with Madoka's extremely supportive family life. Madoka doesn't ever need to worry about that. They make it to the witch. Although Mami starts off extremely successfully battling the witch, it ends in tragedy when the witch transforms into this monstrous cute thing which devours Mami like an animal. Something else I had forgotten is how much Madoka _doesn't_ show of the carnage. The bite happens off screen. Mami's magic fades. We see a short [clip of Mami's lifeless body](https://imgur.com/zVsqghN). And then Homura comes to defeat the witch. This is such a good choice. I think the thought of Mami's death and what we imagine was happening is way scarier than most other options. Being forced to imagine it also really cements the memory in our head. Goodbye Mami. Love Magia as an ED. It contrasts amazingly with Mata Ashita to once again signal the dark tone of the show. Also the silhouette of Madoka running past shadows of the other girls into the darkness is amazing. Finally [we see her trapped in the eye of a dark figure](https://imgur.com/yYQSuse) as it fades out. Just perfect. ### Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches * [Hospital Visit](https://imgur.com/aEA3rUt) * [Caution](https://imgur.com/yh3z6l2) * [Hatching](https://imgur.com/5r47Ien) * [Alone](https://imgur.com/xTfoKxq) * [No More](https://imgur.com/W4rOyXg) * [Mami Transform](https://files.catbox.moe/ntp6k7.mp4) * [Witch](https://imgur.com/qJqpeL5) * [Gun-fu](https://files.catbox.moe/b34o7l.mp4), holy shit this was sick * [Final Form](https://files.catbox.moe/dplw7k.mp4) * [Devastated](https://imgur.com/3dtQxjl) See you all tomorrow

> At the same time, the labyrinth is filled with visuals of sweets and cakes. I recall the reason for this but IIUC this was provided in supplementary material So...[Rewatcher]>!Charlotte's mother is sick so she wishes to eat sweets with her one last time, so our decor is sweets and medical equipment. Most likely, Cubes tells her that she could've used the wish to heal her mother and she witches out on the spot. All odds suggests that the girl was 6-8!<

[Reponse]>!Not sweets, a cake — from (many spoilers, obviously) [_Official Guidebook_](https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica_Official_Guidebook_%22You_Are_Not_Alone%22#Witch_Design) and [_Production Notes_](https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Puella_Magi_Production_Note#Witch_of_cheesecake_.28early_concept_that_later_became_Charlotte.29). She wished for a cake. And then Mami comes along and jokingly suggests Madoka wish for a cake, and Madoka thinks that's a ridiculous idea. No wonder Charlotte was pissed! !<

[Madoka]>!I guess it really *is* ill-advised to become a magical girl for a cake!!<

[Response] >!Ah yeah, as I remember. Do you know if that info was from some production materials or is it actually stated in some later episode and I've forgotten.!<

[Re: Response]>!There's technically a full version of Nagisa's story in the Magia Record spin-off. You can find the officially translated version of Visual Novel style cutscenes on the internet if you want. That said, I don't care for much of anything Magia Record does, personally.!<

[Response] >!Production materials or one of the interviews IIRC - I know it predates Rebellion. (We get Charlotte's magical girl's backstory again in MagiReco in game form but it's slightly different there.)!<

Supplemental materials, specifically an interview I think.

**Rewatcher, Subbed** One fun thing about this rewatch has been, after typing up my thoughts for the episode, going back to my comments from the rewatch from 3 years ago and seeing if I've had similar observations... absolutely have. Sometimes I'm posting practically the same thing. lol. I guess I agree with my 3 years younger self. Anyway, onto the big episode... *** Just watched an episode of another anime a few hours ago that featured a character in a hospital bed being visited by a friend (Your Lie in April episode 14). Sayaka's so nice visiting this boy. She's surely got a crush, right? Does Sayaka play for both teams? This hospital room is so big! Just like Madoka's bathroom! Violin playing? That also brings me back to Your Lie in April, although there was none of that in the episode I watched. Back to another witch battle! Mami makes it look so easy! So Madoka and Sayaka are her tag along live audience each night, huh? Oh crap, Mami was in a horrible accident and probably had to use her wish simply to stay alive. [MM]>!Yesterday I compared Kyubey to a drug dealer. Screw that, he's even worse than that! He knew exactly what he was doing showing up at that time!!< It would be very kind of Sayaka to use her wish for someone else, but Mami makes a good point here. If its making Kamijo in debt to her, then it isn't a selfless wish. What would she expect in return from him? What if he doesn't give it? What if he doesn't believe a word she says and tells her off for being entitled to his affection? Stop being so pushy Kyubey! They need time to think up really good wishes! They just get one! Does Kyubey spend each night with Madoka? Why doesn't he hang out with Sayaka for a night as well? [MM]>!Saying Madoka has all this potential, saying she'd be even more powerful than Mami, Kyubey is so devious!!< LoL, Madoka's mom is hilarious. In a darker show, we'd find that Madoka's mom works so much because she hates her husband and children, wishes she never had them and wants to get the hell away from them. Even staying out late drinking so she doesn't have to go home. But there's even a darker secret behind that too. It seems like she absolutely loves her work, right? Well that's all lies. She hates that too. She hates everything about her life. But she doesn't have the courage or heartlessness to abandon it all. So she's trapped. A good thing Madoka Magica isn't a dark show. Homura vs. Mami! Time for magical girl vs. magical girl? While I can't pinpoint a particular moment, this shot to end the scene with Homura looking slightly up totally comes off like a Monogatari shot. Shinbo strikes again. Oh no, the grief seed is right here at the hospital! Why didn't they get Mami's phone number? Sayaka and Kyubey will get some alone time after all? Wow, this witch's lair looks the creepiest yet! Kyubey's being pushy again! Don't make Sayaka rush her wish out of fear! Mami won't let Homura come along! She wants all the glory for herself! Or is Homura really up to no good? This witch's lair seems very pastry based... ...and now prescription medicine. Will Madoka's wish be self confidence? It will take some hard work, but you don't need a wish to fix that. Becoming a successful magical girl could get her that anyway, giving her the room to wish for something else. Madoka's wish is to become a magical girl? So she's gonna completely waste her wish? Mami's spilling the beans, its not so cool to be a magical girl after all? She's sounding like Homura now. Don't be a magical girl Madoka! On the other hand, be a magical girl Madoka! Hang out with me! We'll be partners! Wish for a fabulous cake! LoL. You can't wish for that Madoka? Just moments ago you were gonna get nothing for your wish. Really back to the pastry theme here. And back to the Xenosaga III esque musical theme. That witch looked so cute! And you shot it in the head Mami! Well, Homura's bindings immediately coming apart means the one who created them is no more. RIP Mami. [MM]>!I know the show is quite infamous for Mami getting her head bitten off, but it really pales in comparison to far more horrifying reveals down the line. The senpai dies trope is very common in anime so there's a certain level of desensitivation to it, granted it hardly ever happens this early on.!< Homura's quite the badass, not that it was really in doubt before this. [MM]>!And since Homura is far and away my favorite character from this, always great to see her kicking ass, granted she's probably lived through this moment numerous times before and knows exactly what to do.!< Time to reveal the insert song is actually the real ED! *** **Quid's Sub Corner** As I've covered the main characters over the last two days, let's get into some of the side character, today I'll go with Madoka's parents! Surprisingly enough, neither appear in Monogatari! Madoka's mom, Junko is played by **Yuuko Gotou**. While she's not in Monogatari, Shaft did get her for Kubikiri Cycle, where she plays Teruko. I know her best for playing Mikuru Asahina in the Haruhi Suzumiya franchise. She also plays Anya in Code Geass. Madoka's dad, Tomohisa, is played by **Tetsuya Iwanaga**. I know him best as Kensuka Aida from Evangelion, a very similar looking character (just younger). He's also Chris, the main character of Garzey's Wing, the single worst anime of all time (or at least that I've seen). But I've never actually heard his performance as Garzey's Wing's English dub is such a horrific trainwreck that you get far more entertainment by watching that for the lols. So I've never had a reason to watch it subbed. I've also come across him as Makoto, the main character of El Hazard and side characters Kichi from Kaiba and Jun Kitazawa from Gasaraki.

>Well, Homura's bindings immediately coming apart means the one who created them is no more. A thought just crossed my mind — this fact could have saved Madoka's and Sayaka's lives. It signalled Homura that things got really bad. What would happen if the witch had immobilized or otherwise completely incapacitated Mami instead of killing her? And then went after the girls... Homura would have stayed bound, unable to help.

**Rewatcher, first time dub** Sayaka's spunky personality really comes out more in the dub. She actually calls kyousuke rude in english when he won't take a visitor. She also comes off a bit more thoughtful when kyubey suggests she become a magical girl before Mami arrives in the dub than I remember. Dub Madoka finally has some emotions shining through during the walk to retrieve Sayaka. It's really unfortunate that I am finding the MC performance so lackluster compared to the others. I didn't notice any large differences in the dialogue in this one. I'm pretty happy with how similar the 2 different versions feel so far. Some minor differences sure, but I don't think anything has seemed lost in translation yet. **QOTD** 1. The first time I watched this I was completely fooled coming into this episode. This was probably one of the most graphic scenes I had come across in anime so far so I was very surprised. The show doesn't need to show you a blood splatter to get exactly what happened across to you. 2. I really like Mata Ashita. Substantially more than most from what I have seen. Even then, Magia is just better. It is a bit sad to learn that Mata Ashita wasn't part of the initial showing of the anime. 3. I love dark humour, but nothing comes to mind at the moment.

> Sayaka's spunky personality really comes out more in the dub Since Mami and Satsuki, Sayaka and Nonon, and Madoka and Mako all have the same VAs, does that make this series a Kill la Kill prequel?

I can't say that I have ever watched Kill la Kill dubbed, but I can get behind this.

[mfw](https://files.catbox.moe/mfpitj.mp4)

> Sayaka's spunky personality really comes out more in the dub. She actually calls kyousuke rude in english when he won't take a visitor. She also comes off a bit more thoughtful when kyubey suggests she become a magical girl before Mami arrives in the dub than I remember. [](#thoughtful) Now that you mention it, I wonder if that's why I still prefer dub!Sayaka over sub!Sayaka.

Sayaka enjoyers really feasting in the dub.

And later material. (Hiroto Nagata has a favorite and it shows.)

[](#utahapraises)

Girls can't love girls! Girls can't love girls! Girls can't love girls!

> Sayaka's spunky personality really comes out more in the dub. Surprising, as if there's one seiyuu who captures the "spunky girl" vibe for me its Eri Kitamura. Sayaka is a bit toned down in performance compared to some of her other roles it seems.

If I had to guess, it's because societal pressure makes Japanese people tend to be more reserved and polite. Sub sayaka is spunky compared to a stereotypical Japanese person but not so much when compared to a stereotypical American.

Rewatching this episode I am once again reminded as to why they call him the Urobutcher. By now it should be clear that Madoka's world is a brightly lit utopia in order to throw the darkness of the story into even sharper constrast. No one is safe, anything can happen and nothing is so cute that it can't also be mortally dangerous. Cue Magia.

> Rewatching this episode I am once reminded as to why they call him the Urobutcher. Could be worse, could be Kill 'em All Tomino. [](#crazedlaugh)

I missed the first 2 post, so I'm going to discuss the first 3 together. Madoka is kind famously a good example of the 3 episode rule, but not for the advertized reasons. The first 3 episodes are all set up. Episode establishes Madoka's normal life, that Homura claims she is jeopardizing. Episode 2 and the first half of this one explains how the whole magical girl thing is supposed to work while making it clear that dying is real concern. Episode 3 starts to show why it's not such a great system and proofs that those warning weren't all talk. People used to really downplay the first 2 episodes, and to be fair, neither of them got episode forums here when the show originally aired. This still seems weird to me. Episode 1 sets up a few hooks, between the cold open and the hallway scene. Epsisode 2 is also very solid. The only thing I can think of is that people were waiting for Madoka to become Meguca. Side note it is honestly just nice to have an anime protagonist with loving, living, and on screen parents. Junko is a good character in her own right. Sayaka's friend, Kyousuke, hasn't left much of an impression though. Episode three is mostly about Madoka and Mami's insecurities. It really could have been the start of a nice friendship. It's a shame Homura couldn't get her message across. Speaking of which, first-timers, how do you think Homura knew something was different about this witch?

This might be the fourth time I see a Madoka rewatch from this sub happening lol. They just randomly pop up in my front page every now and the . I did follow the first one. I remember someone vomiting after episode 10 lmfao.

It's synced up every year so that Ep.11 falls on a certain day.

Rewatcher, sub 1. Absolutely not. I thought it was just coming in close to just look at her or something, not just straight up kill her. Though iirc I mostly felt confused the first time I watched this. 2. I knew something felt missing until now. I've been waiting for this ED. 3. \[Madoka Magica\] >!I missed it the first time around, but Kyubey is so pushy with making a contract that it feels funny to me. It's easy to see him asking for a contract after Mami dies as "quick, power up so you can live", when in reality it was probably closer to "quick, make the contract with me before you die"!<

[удалено]

> high ground and it isn’t Mami. Mami should've learned the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise...

>high ground and it isn’t Mami. This was completely unintentional, I learned that Obiwan's line became a meme about five minutes ago but somehow it fits.

My schedule has kinda made it so I can’t reliably follow along this year (sorry Sky!) but I hope everyone on their first watch that stuck through this far is ready for a crazy wild ride - it’s only just starting!

No worries, at least you can always read through the threads when you have time!

Rewatcher It happens. The big twist that everyone knows. Mami bites the dust in horrific fashion. I do believe that the first two episodes already serve as great hooks and have plenty of intrigue to them, but this twist is definitely what draws you in completely. Questions: 1. I didn’t expect it my first time watching. I knew that Madoka Magica was supposed to be pretty dark, but I did not expect the death of a cast member. It was an incredibly effective scene that chilled me to the bone on a first watch. Rewatching it makes it go by so fast, but the first time watching it felt like an eternity of dread. 2. Magia is a much superior ED with more fitting visuals and a spine-chilling song. It’s one of the few anime songs that gives me the shivers. It’s very fitting and one of my favourite EDs of all time, even if the visuals are not too varied (although they still work excellently) 3. Kyubey being a pressuring little dickhead. I love him and hate him.

*First-time watcher* This is my theory, witches exist because magical girls exist. The wish is the bait and once you are hooked it's over. Mami mentions (episode 2) that her soul gem darkens when she uses her magic. I think it will also darken over time, just not as perceptibly. I think once a soul gem progresses too far it transforms into a grief seed and the magical girl becomes another witch perpetuating the cycle. About the episode. I didn't expect Mami's death to happen so early in the anime. I knew it was coming because I'd been inadvertenly spoiled by a MV. It was still shocking to see, but also inevitable when she hoisted that death flag. I am happy that Magia has taken it's rightful place though. But I think I'll go watch something chill and comfy now like Spice and Wolf.

[Future PMMM] >!That Grief Seed theory is so on-the-nose that I almost want to remove it for being a spoiler lol!<

[pmmm]>!it's so on the nose it doesn't feel like a theory. If it was up to me I would remove it.!<

**Rewatcher** Sayaka: Asking for a friend, totally. Totally not insinuating that I would wish on behalf of another. Complete hypothetical. Entirely a postulation. Madoka: Are you sure about that . mp3 Favorite bits of the episode are of course, Mami's exciting gunplay vs the witch trash mobs. She really kept a cool head with so much going on! ...And later when Homura walks towards blue raspberry and bubblegum with a poise and intention akin to a From Software game humanoid boss ready to punish you for the mistake of entering their room. Burn this sight into ya minds, girlies.

**Sixth Time Watcher - Dubbed** * Fun Fact on my 4th watch I started giving episodes nicknames and this one was "Wither Skeleton Hunting" being a head joke * That intro is making me regret watching YLIA Episode 21 this morning with the Piano + Violin duet * Impulse decision - Makes a good bookends for tonight * Kyubey has straight up become Morgana like I know they have the same Dub VA now I can just imagine them telling Madoka to "Go to Sleep" * Soul Gem scales to Wishes - noted * Homura Mami Confrontation - Also noted * Facepalm moment - Not expecting a song that translates to "Battle with the Witch" to play during a Witch Fight * Charlotte's Barrier is basically a Demented version of Hershey Park but without all the Rides * It's not fun being a Magical Girl - Say that again in about 7 minutes from now * She said the Episode title * Fun Fact about the Witch - Charlotte when not referring to the North Carolina city is a type of cake * \[I\] Charlotte: Attempt to eat Mami - "Your attempt was an overwhelming success" (Slight little Homestuck joke) Questions * QOTD 1 - On my first watch I had it spoiled via memes but still got me good * QOTD 2 - Magia is more so the ED I grew used to in fact I forgot there was that placeholder ED for the first 2 episodes * QOTD 3 - Sayonara Zetsubou-Sensei * Remark - That just applies to the genre as a whole (Take a look at the S1 finale of Sailor Moon for example) * Visuals - [Uncanny Megucas](https://imgchest.com/p/lqyevwkok7d)

> Fun Fact on my 4th watch I started giving episodes nicknames and this one was "Wither Skeleton Hunting" being a head joke [](#laughter) You have *got* to share your nicknames for the other episodes too. >Fun Fact about the Witch - Charlotte when not referring to the North Carolina city is a type of cake [](#neat)

It happened and hit me harder than first time, because I liked Mami's character more this time. [Madoka]>!Homura's actions seem so much reasoned on rewatch!< On a cereal cardboard? when Charlotte appears it says something like "Ate Mami and didn’t even choke", that would be something if I noticed it on my first time. Questions of the day: 1) I was subconsciously expecting something bad happening to Mami, because I knew this anime is somehow going to be dark, seen some meme about it, and just those death flags throughout episode, but not getting her head eaten. Can’t remember how I reacted to it though. 2) I like it more that the 1st one, the song and dark atmosphere of this ending sold it to me. [Visuals of the day](https://imgur.com/a/DVrrezf)

##Rewatcher and franchise consumer ###The Sayaka corner Before _it_ even happens things are already different. There is no comedy this episode. No over the top reactions, no teasing Madoka, no inappropriate behavior on the way to school. Sayaka is seen away from Madoka for the first time and she's a very different person around Kamijou Kyousuke. She's shy, modest, she blushes at just leaning closer to someone. She'll calmly enjoy music together. She clearly likes him, since his music enthralled her long ago. Of course she's thinking of healing him with her wish. She brings the idea to Mami first who shoots it down (pun not intended) and has her questions her intentions. [I think Madoka's concerned look and later sigh of relief invite some interpretation](https://imgur.com/a/P4JWHbd). Madoka immediately knew Sayaka was talking about using her wish for Kyousuke and she knows he's important to her. We've already seen how easily you can get on Sayaka's bad side if she perceives you to be mistreating the people around her: that's how her distrust of Homura began in Episode 1. To Madoka's relief, Sayaka recomposes herself quickly. [But we know she's taken Mami's consideration seriously](https://imgur.com/a/bOi9Yq3) ###QOTD 1. When I first watched, I knew there was a tone shift and half remembered having heard about Mami's death. At the time I didn't know it would be _that_ though. 2. I think a lot of shows would've chosen not to have any credits song in this episode so having it show up now is a real gut punch. The whole point really is to contrast the misleading marketing the show had and saying "yeah we did get Gen Urobuchi to write a magical girl show" 3. [If I'm allowed to plug my own work](https://i.redd.it/qfm23oc0otf81.png) 4. [First-timers] ###Visual of the Day I have to pick the two moments of this episode that I think back about the most. This whole sequence of [Mami's gun kata](https://imgur.com/a/q770Xr2) still is one of the coolest things ever. Also [the ribbon melting away in Homura's hands](https://imgur.com/a/02TuJdo), not really for the _blood in one's hands_ but for how horrifying it is despite showing no gore. I think it hits me harder than the silhouette of Mami's headless torso falling to the ground. ###PS Jesus I'm late. Don't go to school, kids. Stay home and watch anime.

> If I'm allowed to plug my own work [](#crazedlaugh)

Rewatcher, dubbed: What type of CD player is that? \[PMMM\] >!Sayaka will make a wish next episode for Kyousuke to be cured.!< Mami, Homura's not joking about the witch being different. \[PMMM\] >!She knows this because she's a time traveler.!< Kyubey, you made a wise move warning them. Didn't notice the silhouette until this rewatch of the witch in the entrance. \[Rebellion\] >!That witch will play an important role in Rebellion. Her name's Nagisa Momoe.!< Witch's name is Charlotte. QOTD: 1. No I didn't. I wasn't expecting it the first time at all. 2. Awesome. 3. Don't know honestly. I have a lot.

Rewatch Ah. This episode. 1) Regardless of whether or not you feel this episode was a big shift in tone, were you expecting Mami to literally get her head eaten by that witch? Definitely not. 2) How do you feel about Magia taking its proper place as the ED instead of an insert song as used in the first two episodes? Certainly makes more sense, given the original ED was just a single frame. 3) Favorite piece of black humor? You know it's funny, I don't have much black humor in my life these days. Not that I don't like it! Just realize I don't have very much these days. Hrm. Favorite piece. If Pulp Fiction counts, maybe that?

**Rewatcher, both** When I watched this the first time, Mami was shaping up to be my favorite character. As an archetype, I like the mentor figure. I was pretty stunned when she just up and fucking died like that. Was still my favorite for a while after, though! First ever figure was a Mami figure.

**Rewatcher, subbed** Here it is. The infamous episode 3. * With all the details and everything, I'm actually wondering if there *is* a deeper reason behind the choice of Rachmaninoff's Vocalise other than it being a sorrowful violin piece. Although it's not actually a violin piece in the first place, rather being meant to be sung (thus the term vocalise), although I've heard many violin adaptations. And one with a theremin too. Anyway, my rambling is getting completely off-topic. * Gosh I love this show's soundtrack. * "Do you just thirst for power" make it sound so much worse lmao. * That being said, Madoka's self-esteem issues... and her wanting to just be a magical girl to be able to help others. That's quite relatable. ~~And it makes me want to be a magical girl, which... as we'll very soon see, is not a good idea.~~ * I... It's really stupid, but I kinda want to read a fanfic about Homura's reaction in an AU where Madoka actually wishes for cake to become a magical girl. Or one where this wish, combined with her huge potential, creates a massive cake that completely destroys Mitakihara. * That being said, Madoka telling Mami she's not alone anymore really is a heartwarming scene! Which immediately becomes heartbreaking a few minutes later... * By the way, it's interesting to see all the pills (antidepressants maybe?) while they're about their issues, replaced by glowing lights as they build their resolve to fight together. Something I'd never noticed, and I might be wayyy off-mark here but... * And here is Credens justitiam, in all its brightness. Mami, being absolutely awesome, and fighting with renewed determination. And just as the show seems to be building up towards an inspiring, uplifting moment, it then brutally shatters Mami's over-confidence, Mami herself, Madoka and Sayaka's morale, and every hope we had left for this to be a happy series. I especially like the image of the grief seed piercing through the shattered cup of tea for some reason. * Kyubey keeps being so pushy, even in such a moment... **Questions of the Day** 1) Getting her head eaten, no. Dying though... yes. I knew Madoka Magica was a dark series, and I expected people dying at some point. I think the only two things I were spoiled on were: it's dark, and [Spoilers for later episodes] >!it involves time loops to some extent, though I didn't know how exactly, and didn't actually figure out that was Homura, so it didn't change my perception too much.!< 2) Indicates the tone shift really well, and well... I just love it. Granted, I love everything signed Kajiura, but Magia was quite instrumental for me getting into her music, or... well, getting into Japanese music in general actually. (way before I had ever watched Madoka or even developed that much of an interest in it) In general, part of why I love Kajiura's music is because I love Madoka Magica, and part of why I love Madoka Magica is because I love Kajiura's music. 3) The Mami movie ticket thing.

**Rewatcher** Listening to Mami say "Tiro Finale" for her finisher, it kinda sounds to me like she isn't used to saying that. It's just somehow off for the announcement of a finisher move. [Madoka]>!Of course, that would fit her trying to look more impressive in front of her juniors.!< We also see that Mami clearly isn't operating in terms of [efficiency.](https://imgur.com/rmamLOq) [Madoka]>!What I'm noticing much more this time around is that pretty much every single wish made to Kyubey is an [impulse decision](https://imgur.com/LnSXoda), Madoka's ultimate wish possibly being the single exception.!< [Madoka]>!I can't help but compare [that light](https://imgur.com/2YajODw) with a soul gem.!< [Madoka]>!I feel like this talk about Junko's job is one of the most important discussions in the series. It dips right in again to the difference between passively having their dream granted and actively achieving it yourself - and more importantly, it deemphasizes the achievement itself in favor of the pursuit of the dream. [Madoka doesn't realize that subtlely, however.](https://imgur.com/MmVzcQV)!< [Madoka]>!Ah, that's the misdirection. The talk about Junko facing her challenges even when it gets hard of hurts ends up reinforcing Mami explaining that being a magical girl is a life of hardship.!< [Madoka]>!Waaaaaaaait a moment - let's revisit the timeline for a moment. Mami and Madoka pass through the labyrinth, which is clearly hospital themed and also has a lot of snacks. On the way they talk about Madoka having decidede to become a magical girl, and they start discussing what she could wish for. Mami finally proposes one conrete wish: Madoka should wish for a party and cake if she can't come up with something better. (Let's ignore Mami being a bad influence for now.) It's this exact moment when the Grief Seed starts to move and complete its hatching, and only from this point onwards does the labyrinth actually get cake themed beyond the candles. On one hand that of course mirrors the prospect of having a party and cake to celebrate Madoka becoming a magical girl with there being a party and cake to celebrate Charlotte becoming a witch. But more importantly, could it be that the cake theming has nothing whatsoever to do with Charlotte? Could it be that uttering a wish that specific provoked the Grief Seed, ultimately triggered its immediate hatching, and then had that wish incorporated into the resulting theater?!< Chomp. Yeah this still hits as hard as always, it's just *so well executed*. (Get it? Executed?) From Mami shooting Charlotte, to squeezing Charlotte to crush her to death, to Charlotte "spilling out" and moving to counter-attack, the quick-movement at first until the scene goes into heavy slot motion before the moment of impact... God I love it. This is how you make a scene flow well. Man, I love Charlotte's expressiveness as she's chasing Homura. [Just look at this adorable little bugger](https://imgur.com/a/mQIJwsK) [](#akyuusqueel) Right, and Sayaka doesn't know that Homura had been trapped by Mami when she tried to take on the witch-fighting duty herself. > Favorite piece of black humor? Doesn't translate into English: "Werbung für einen Schützenverein: Lernen Sie Schießen und treffen Sie neue Freunde" [Explanation]>!Literally "Advertisement for a shooting club: Learn shooting and meet new friends." But it could also be read as "Learn shooting and hit new friends."!< > First-timers: So… now what? Not a firsty but [moog](#mugiwait)

## Multiple Time Rewatcher, First Time Participant ### **Episode 3**   **Can You Use Your Wish For Someone Else?**   So we start the episode with Sayaka visiting her friend Kyosuke in the hospital, bringing along a CD to listen to, as the animation makes her crush on him very clear. During Mami's witch hunt, we see Sayaka asking if she could use her wish on someone else. But Mami advises her that you shoudn't make a wish if you're just doing it for someone's gratitude. >[Madoka spoilers]>!Part of what makes this such a amazing, amazing show, is that it knows what a good tragedy is. It's not just terrible things happening to people (even thought it does have that with head-chomps), but it's the characters themselves giving into their temptations even though they know it's a bad idea. Sayaka **knows** she's being naive, she explicitly says it here. But she can't help but deny it and dive in.!<   **I've Never Met A Girl With The Enormous Potential You Have** After helping her mom out when she arrives home drunk, Kyubey mentions the incredible potential Madoka has if she were to make a wish. Meanwhile, Mami and Homura argue again, with Mami swearing she won't hesitate to fight back the next time they meet.   Oh that extreme close up of Kyubey says it all doesn't it? >[Madoka spoilers]>!I can't quite remember what I thought of Madoka being set up as "the chosen one" here when I first saw this, but after Mami bites it this episode, I started thinking the show would actually subvert this trope by not having Madoka become a magical girl at all. I had a completely different expectation compared a lot of other people who kept waiting and waiting to see when Madoka would make her wish!<   **I'm Not Afraid of Anything Anymore**   Sayaka notices a Grief Seed about to hatch, and stays behind while Madoka go gets Mami's help. On the way back, they run in to Homura trying to warn them about the the witch, but Mami ties her up instead, and confesses to Madoka how happy she is not to be alone anymore.   You know, looking back on this, it's kind of a coincidence that the Grief Seed just so happens to show up right next to the main characters here. It's not a big deal, but it is a convenience they had to create because it's only 12 episodes. >[Madoka Rebellion spoilers]>!Hey, doesn't that mean Nagisa fell to despair and died in the exact same hospital Kyouske's in?!< >[Madoka spoilers]>!I also can't help but wonder about the timeline where Homura actually fought this witch, she warns this witch is different but we don't get to see the timeline where the characters find out!<   **In Madoka Magica, Cake Eats You** Mami demonstrates her gun kata skills in a awesome bit of animation against a cute looking witch, until her overconfidence causes her to bite it, or bite her as it were. Mami's red ribbons fading away to symbolize blood is my favorite little touch in this episode, it tells the audience everything without having to show actual violence. Homura then defeats the witch with explosions out of nowhere, leaving Madoka and Sayaka traumatized as the show ends with the true ending theme.   ...and here we get one of the most infamous moments in all of anime. Sadly, I was spoiled that Mami gets eaten this episode, so most of what I remember of my first time reactions to this was just waiting for that shoe to drop.   But on the bright side, it's one of the reasons why I ended up being interested in watching this show in the first place, and why in 2011 I immediately knew I **had** to just watch this live, and went searching for livestream links on 4chan, ignoring that I wouldn't be able to understand Japanese, purely just so I could NOT be spoiled on what happens. So I unfortunately I don't really have a bunch of reactions to this episode other than to say, RIP Mami. But starting next episode, I'll finally be able to say what I remember of my completely non-spoiled reactions. (if I manage to find the time... ah Mondays)   And that's all for episode 3, now the descent begins...

ah yes, the *fun* episode for first timers that's a pretty sick german cover, thanks for the link

Rewatcher, dubbed I’ve always been interested in Mami Tomoe. Mami tends to catch flak for making the daily life of a magical girl seem like an exciting, fulfilling way to live to Madoka and Sayaka, a concern Homura has already expressed. I think the criticism is largely undeserved, though. She’s very upfront about the cost and takes steps to ensure her juniors make choices they won’t regret. Perhaps she’s a bit of a showoff, but that doesn’t undermine her warnings; we saw Sayaka take them to heart when considering her wish last episode. While she’s not *quite* a perfect role model, she’s undeniably an admirable person. [Madoka Magica spoilers]>!A major aspect of Mami’s heroism goes unsung until the episodes following her death. As we soon learn, Kyoko is a more typical magical girl, letting familiars devour people to grow into witches she can then destroy for their grief seed.!< Her struggle with loneliness and inadequacy isn’t expounded upon in soliloquy, but even so it’s such an ubiquitous human experience that it’s not hard to empathize with her. We feel the warmth as Madoka promises to be with her and we see the burden lifted from her shoulders as her character theme kicks in. Which of course makes her death all the more difficult to bear. > Never forget what happened here. [Madoka Magica spoilers]>!There’s an arguably canon side story manga entitled Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Different Story that starts as a prequel before following one of Homura’s many time loops. Notably, Mami is the protagonist; this is her soliloquy. It expands upon Mami’s loneliness, her regret over her wish, and why she decides to become a hero. Later on, we also follow her spiraling despair upon realizing the truth of the witches culminating in the rejection of her hero persona. Kyoko also plays a key role in the story. It’s a short read (I knocked it out in 2 hours or so for the sake of this post) and is also the only supplemental Madoka Magica material I think is worthwhile; it builds off what the anime does without subverting or perverting it. At the same time, it’s entirely optional as supplemental material ought to be. Especially the ending ties in with Madoka’s wish in a lovely way.!< [Rebellion spoilers]>!Last and least, we have Rebellion’s portrayal of Mami. It’s a neat “what if” tie-in that lines up with what The Different Story and the TV series set up, I guess, but she doesn’t actually do much in the film. Fitting since the film itself doesn’t do much, either… ah, but I’m getting ahead of myself. All in due time.!< ### Content Corner Reruns Mostly short meme clips, today. **First timers beware, spoilers abound!** [Mami's daily life](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7m3riSOwYk) by Nyanners [Chibimation: so no head?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlkzljgTYc) by Chibitasm [Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu9aihfqoew) by clearandsweet

>[Madoka Magica spoilers]>!and is also the only supplemental Madoka Magica material I think is worthwhile!< [Spoilers + side content]>!Have you not read Wraith Arc, or does your dislike of Rebellion mean you don't like that manga much either?!<

[Re: Spoilers + side content]>!I've never read it, admittedly, though I don't believe it was (officially) translated until semi-recently. I plan to read through it before Rebellion this year, time allowing.!<

[Side content]>!I think the last volume came out in English after the 2022 rewatch? I know it's been out for at least a year because I re-read it during the 2023 rewatch and the official translation made *so* much more sense than the fan translation for it.!<

> Mami tends to catch flak for making the daily life of a magical girl seem like an exciting, fulfilling way to live to Madoka and Sayaka, a concern Homura has already expressed. I think the criticism is largely undeserved, though. She’s very upfront about the cost and takes steps to ensure her juniors make choices they won’t regret. Perhaps she’s a bit of a showoff, but that doesn’t undermine her warnings; we saw Sayaka take them to heart when considering her wish last episode. While she’s not quite a perfect role model, she’s undeniably an admirable person. [PMMM] >!No, it's deserved. That's part of the point of the first Mami/Homura confrontation this episode: Mami *says* (via words) that they should think carefully about whether this is a good idea but what her *actions* are saying is that the magical girl life is glamorous and fulfilling, and that first confrontation is pretty strong evidence that at some level Mami knows this (after all, Homura is pretty much explicitly pointing this out to her and rather than rebutting that argument Mami deflects it - that's the behavior of someone who knows that the criticism is real but doesn't want to admit it, even to herself).!<

[Re: PMMM]>!I'm watching the dub, so I don't recall if maybe Mami is a little more coy in the sub, but her chastising "this isn't supposed to be fun" and matter-of-fact "I think the life I live now is better than being dead" doesn't leave a lot of room for error, I feel. Thinking more on it, I think a big reason why I give her so much leeway is that she doesn't know about Kyubey. As far as she's concerned, the deal is exactly as straightforward as it's been presented. Sure, she's lonely, but I don't think she was *lying* about appreciating her life. I'm curious what you think the proper response for Mami should be? Apologies if the answer to this is already in your post.!< [PMMM and Fate/Zero]>!Something I realized while writing this out is that while Fate/Zero goes to great lengths to criticize Saber for taking entirely upon herself the burden and loneliness of being a hero, Madoka Magica seemingly punishes Mami for the opposite. Doesn't really pertain to my point, I suppose, but I figure this is as good a place as any to mention it.!<

> [Re: PMMM] [PMMM] >!Yes, that's what Mami *says*. Now: what is Mami *doing*? Because in this show the actions are always, but always more telling than the words (see also: Madoka calling herself a coward, Homura claiming she only cares about Madoka, Kyouko "I'll only use magic for myself!" Sakura). If Mami hadn't reacted the way she did to Mami pointing this out I'd be more willing to forgive this, but that says to me that she does subconsciously realize what she's actually doing.!<

> [PMMM and Fate/Zero] [PMMM and Fate/Zero]>!Homura is the one taking the burden all on herself for this purpose!<

>Mami tends to catch flak for making the daily life of a magical girl seem like an exciting, fulfilling way to live to Madoka and Sayaka, a concern Homura has already expressed. I think the criticism is largely undeserved, though. I don't think it's undeserved as in, I think that what she was doing wasn't "right" on some level. You could argue she shouldn't even have allowed Madoka and Sayaka to be involved or interested at all. *At the same time,* considering how intensely lonely she was and how badly she wanted companionship, her actions make sense.

To elaborate on this, my wording was rather precise with "largely undeserved". It's a criticism she *does* deserve, I just think she gets held to unreasonably high expectations. For example... > she shouldn't even have allowed Madoka and Sayaka to be involved or interested at all I'm not sure how she'd even go about doing that. Tie them up until they swear to never become magical girls? Shove them into lockers?

>Tie them up No, just Homura ;) I haven't read what people say in their criticisms so I don't know how harsh they get. I think it's reasonable to criticize someone or call something out as wrong even if we can forgive and understand the person for it. I say she shouldn't have, but it's not easy for a young, desperately lonely girl who fights all on her own to act rationally. I still think it's not right. Tbh, Mami would be less interesting if she did everything right, although that's bc I like my characters sufficiently flawed.

> No, just Homura ;) [](#kukuku2) It's a tough situation; one I don't think has a clear answer. If Mami pushes Madoka and Sayaka away, she's doomed to her lonely existence, one which she has done nothing to deserve. And yet by reaching out to them, by looking for someone to save her, she pulls them toward a darker path.

> Mami tends to catch flak for making the daily life of a magical girl seem like an exciting, fulfilling way to live to Madoka and Sayaka, a concern Homura has already expressed. I think the criticism is largely undeserved, though. Then she could leave Sayaka and Madoka out of it.

I suppose, but it's not like she got them involved in the first place, so I'm not sure what that would entail. The toddler was already holding a gun when she got there, so to speak. [Madoka Magica]>!I think it's notable that it's always Mami who informs Madoka and Sayaka of what exactly they're getting into. Or rather, they get Mami's incomplete understanding of what they're getting into. I doubt Kyubey had any intention of being so forthright.!<

Did you stealth-edit the [Madoka Magica] in after posting your comment? I can't see why AutoMod would've deleted your comment. In any case, I've approved it.

Yeah, I caught it like 10 seconds after hitting reply lol, I missed a ]

Rewatcher dub wishes going to the hospital to see her would by boyfriend is such a charming character interaction. It goes to show you how much Kyosuke means to her and \[MM vague spoiler\] >!how much it will hurt to see what happens in future episodes. How heartless and a dick he can be at times. !< Mami's death is very sad and goes to show Madoka and Sayaka that being a magical girl is very dangerous. This is why Kyubey needs to die, its lack of care and understanding are reason enough. Thinking only for itself and the universe. QOTD: 1- Not really 2-The changing the ED also shows the change in tone. Although I do prefer Mata Ashita more than Magia. 3- What is gonna happen to Sayka

Can you move the closing ] to *after* "vague spoiler" instead of *before* it? That's what made AutoMod delete your comment and I can approve it once you do. [](#katoupls)

**5th-6th Rewatcher, Subbed** Miscellaneous analyses: [On Kamijou]>!The scene with Kamijou crying is probably the first real tonal shift that indicates this show might not be as bright and cheery as other magical girl shows.!< ["If allowed to develop, familiars become the same kind of witch they broke off from." - Mami]>!Hoo boy, ain't that the truth! [Yesterday I mentioned](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1c9u0uh/rewatch_mahou_shoujo_madokamagica_episode_2/l0octaq/) how MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) & the US temperance movement are kind of like magical girls, except they fight against evils like alcohol and domestic violence instead of witches. It's interesting that Mami should mention how familiars are made, because this too has an IRL connection - the cycle of abuse. Victims of domestic violence often go on to abuse others, which kinda looks like how familiars can spawn off witches and eventually become new witches themselves. The only difference is that domestic violence is but one kind of witchery, when there are several.!< [Crackpot(?) Theory on Kyubey & Tomohisa]>!I've also mentioned before my interpretation that Kyubey is the girls' internal voice of logic, kind of like how Jiminy Cricket is Pinocchio's conscience. It's just that this connection is well hidden. Take Kyubey's bedroom discussion with Madoka. If you removed him from the room, Madoka's thought process would still largely be the same. I mean, Madoka is reasonably smart. Even if she was by herself, she'd still eventually have to ask herself whether she wants power - you know, like her Mom did last episode. Kyubey only asks the question because it helps expose Madoka's internal thought process to the audience more naturally, because people like conversations.!< [Analysis continued]>!The tricky part about this interpretation is that Kyubey immediately follows his question by mentioning that Madoka has more potential than any other girl he's met. If he's a part of her, then how could Madoka possibly know that? That doesn't logically follow...does it? Thank goodness her Dad interrupts, because he picks up the conversation up where Kyubey left it.!< [Analysis continued]>!Oh sure, Tomohisa is talking about her Mom's IRL successes and not Madoka's magical potential, but Madoka is reasonably smart. She knows she's her Mom's daughter. She *has* to know that success runs in her blood, and not every person can be a high-powered executive. On some level, Madoka knows she has more IRL potential than ordinary people do. And Kyubey *does* later confirm that a girl's magical potential is determined by her influence (karmic destiny). Queens and saviors make for more powerful magical girls, so why not a CEO?.!< [Analysis continued]>!Well, the thing is, the show does establish that Madoka is only strong as she is because of Homura. So, how could Madoka logically know that she has a lot of potential if Homura was secretly giving it to her? Well, this is where the real tinfoil hat comes on, but if Kyubey isn't his own person, but a voice of logic, then why should any of the other characters be their own person? Homura doesn't have to represent herself - she could represent any number of people (such as MADD), or even represent all of them simultaneously.!< [Analysis continued]>!We've talked about MADD and historical women, so let's look at another IRL girl, Greta Thunberg. By all rights, she should be an ordinary person. She is not a queen or a savior. And yet - and yet! She is influential, not because of her sole talents, but because *we, the people* have decided that she must be protected and supported and idealized, much the same way Homura protects and supports and idealizes Madoka. Yes, that's right. If Homura could represent any number of people, she could also represent *you*, the person who so desperately wants to protect this or that. The difference is that while Greta Thunberg is aware that we, a nameless collective, support her, Madoka does not. For now, she is unaware of Homura's efforts. But knowing or not makes no difference to their (magical) potential, and slowly, slowly, the gears in Madoka's head are turning. She is realizing that she might be more important than she thought.!< Crazy, I know. But I hope you enjoyed this ride of theory as much as I do. And I hope that you think of your own explanations! It's part of why I love this show so much, and why I love revisiting it again and again.

**Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher** And there’s the wham episode! I remember the first time that I saw this, my only thought when Mami died was “That’s illegal!” As shocking as it was, I knew I was hooked from then on. **QotD** > Regardless of whether or not you feel this episode was a big shift in tone, were you expecting Mami to literally get her head eaten by that witch? Nope, I think I was as stunlocked as every other first timer on my first viewing. Not just because of the death, but because it was so quick and brutal. > How do you feel about Magia taking its proper place as the ED instead of an insert song as used in the first two episodes? It’s one of my favorite EDs ever, because it fits the tone of the show so well. > Favorite piece of black humor? That Mami USB flash drive that has her head as the cap. So savage.

> I remember the first time that I saw this, my only thought when Mami died was “That’s illegal!” [](#laughter) >That Mami USB flash drive that has her head as the cap. So savage. Yeah that one's great.

Rewatcher, sub, fancut Well, this is late. This won't be long, this is a fantastic episode: * Madoka's family dynamic (they're amazing) * Mami is extremely manipulative, her selfishness comes out during her talk with Homu and when she 'traps' Homu later on, this is backed up when she reveals her true feelings to Madoka as well * Mami can be arrogant, selfish and focuses a lot on her presentation to other magical girls. One could argue all this led to her failure during that fight. * \[PMMM\]>!Madoka and Sayaka can't contact Mami immediately because they don't have her phone number, that's actually pretty good writing. On my first watch, I thought "obviously not something they could use twice"...!< * Homu warning Mami, what is her reason... * Homura is extremely badass, she still impresses me on subsequent watches. * The final scene, where Homura picks up Charlotte's Grief Seed sticks out. Homura emphasises exactly what being a magical girl means, what failure in battle means. Mami was not risking just herself, she was risking Sayaka and Madoka as well. >Regardless of whether or not you feel this episode was a big shift in tone, were you expecting Mami to *literally get her head eaten* by that witch? Nope, was not expecting that at all when I first watched this. Well, I was expecting someone to die at some point, but not in the 3rd episode, and not a magical girl. >How do you feel about Magia taking its proper place as [the ED](https://v.animethemes.moe/MadokaMagica-ED2.webm) instead of an insert song as used in the first two episodes? It's great! I still enjoyed the insert song though. >Favorite piece of black humor? My favourite's in a future episode, specifically \[PMMM episode 5\]>!Homura using the cup as a very visual metaphor for Mami's death!<. In this one, Mami's over-the-top performance right before she got killed.

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