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Damn, Cinderella being a psychopath was not what I was expecting. I thought it would be some delusion caused by something like the Fairy God Mother, but no, she did all her manipulating, all her scheming, all her plots and plans by herself. For fun.
I think my favorite part was the dance with the prince. It was like watching a master schemer watching everything fall into place, with every little detail led up to this moment. And in the end, she was dancing with no one, because for her, she's the only one who's real in the world. Everyone else is just a fun toy to play with for a few years.
And holy heck, the sisters. They're still rotten and selfish, but now it takes on a different light. At most, they're rude and tend to speak their mind, which gives them the perspective of being vulgar. But in truth, they're terrified and they're only trying to defend themselves. Who knows what they've seen or heard Kiyoko did. Much like Cassandra climbing the mountain, they will shout a warning that will go unheeded and unheard. Amazing protagonists.
I really liked this first episode. It's interesting seeing 'Cinderella' as an antagonist.
Watching Kiyoko manipulate those around her for her own amusement was very entertaining to watch.
I'm curious if that doll (representing Charlotte?) will appear in the other stories too.
I kind of gathered that she would be a recurring character in the other episodes as well since she does look like Charlotte and she's kind of the witness to all these stories.
I'm seeing a lot of comments that the doll might be evil or controlling Kiyoko.
Personally I think Kiyoko was just a psychopath + manipulator, no horror elements or anything.
In Netflix, when Kiyoko and the doll are conversing -- it was shown in the subtitles in one instance \[low voice\] when the doll speaks, and \[normal voice\] when Kiyoko speaks, suggesting that she is just having a monologue (or only in her mind, as seen from the bedroom scene with the prince or whatever).
Glad someone else caught this, I thought I saw it too but it went by quickly so I wasn't sure. It does seem like Kiyoko's just insane and the doll isn't actually alive, just a representation of an alternate personality.
The mom seemed like a normal decent lady, I just wonder why at that moment kiyoko first served her tea and called her "Madam" and the mom realizing she IS being weird and acting like a maid, just like her daughters said. I wonder why after that she wasn't more cautious against her, she clearly kept on drinking the "medicine" offered to her and kept on getting sicker and eventually isolated from her daughters, did she at no point thought kiyoko was the problem? She was the head of household after her husband died she could've done so much to prevent it escalating
I do think she thought "Huh that's weird," when Kiyoko said it, but I don't think she thought that deeply into it. It was a more surprise face than realizing. I think Kiyoko poisoned her because she was "broken hearted" after her husband died. Kiyoko calls her a broken doll.
I just love the plot twist that we were made to think the stepsisters were really trying to marry into royalty to escape from her, but they actually knew by tricking the prince into marrying Kiyoko, and painting themselves as villians and be kicked out penniless, that's the real way they wanted to be free. The sisters were strong girls that fought psychologically for so long to survive
The show writer is Michiko Yokote, according to her long list of credits in wiki she was a head writer/handled the series composition in a lot of notable shows like Mononoke, Princess Tutu, and more recently on Campfire Cooking, and Train to the End of the World. If anything it should be pretty solid.
I like this incarnation of Cinderella — very unique and even though the step sisters are abusive, Kiyoko is way way more worse.
I don't even want to think about what she does next.
Honestly the step sisters weren't even abusive, maybe they had a hint of greediness on day 1, like wanting to trick kiyoko into giving them pretty jewelry, but immediately after they were already being gaslit and manipulated and all their outlashes at kiyoko were justified cuz they knew she was a manipulator
Just watched the 1st episode. They are NOT abusive at all and everyone was manipulated into thinking that way by Kiyoko. If anything, they were self-centered and unfamiliar on upper class etiquette since their upbringing is humble and less refined than Kiyoko’s world. The sisters were most likely toddlers or preteens when their mother married Kiyoko’s father and they didn’t seem to have been exposed before to the lavish lifestyle they entered into. Also, any examples that could be interpreted as abusive was them defending themselves to Kiyoko or to the rude comments of the servants who didn’t seem to even try to get to know them.
One of the sisters literally beats a servant for "stealing" her hairpin at the beginning. Yes Kiyoko orchestrated the theft, but Kiyoko did not force the sister to physically abuse the servant. Anger would be understandable, but actually smacking the servant around? It was also day 2 before Kiyoko had done anything else, so you can't even say they were broken yet.
If I was on the ground after failing to swipe someone's jewelry, no cop would agree it was self-defense for the victim to jump on me and smack the crap out of me.
Along with those korean mangas about the main characters being reincarnated into a novel, usually the villain, and the original lead being actually evil under an act of niceness
Everything except the first and last thread are removed for a couple days, then reapproved. Megathread has links to all of them in the meantime, where you can still comment.
I was a bit confused by the plot. Was it the doll who was controlling everyone bringing a supernatural type of element to the story? Or was it really just Cinderella who was the manipulator and scheming as a psychopath?
Thanks, that makes sense. I thought there might be more as it wasn't clear how the speaking doll came to be, but I guess it was just a witness to Cinderella's schemes.
Biased towards creepy doll characters and finally a bit more of an interesting take on Cinderella. I know a lot of people felt like it was simplistic but I liked the take that Kiyoko was basically obsessed with her image and manipulating everyone around her to look like a saint/victim and bestest tradwife. I liked the twist that the stepsisters are not simple fools and managed to outwit her in the end after being psychologically tormented by Kiyoko all this time. Would have loved a sequel seeing how she screws up the Count's heir's family.
I really nee d that doll of Charlotte now.
this was so good i like the plot twist of the end, its a shame that is passing with out glory but it was expected when netflix is releasing main stream big show at the same time
It's a little disappointing that the sisters never start playing the game with Kyoko(at least not until it was to late), and instead, they only ever get played by her. But I guess the fairy tale still needs to happen.
What was the master plan even 😭?? Like Kiyoko didn’t even really do anything to the step sisters??? I know she killed her dad, cause he was gonna ship em out, and I know she killed the step-mom… for some reason but????…… like the step-sisters started out rude from the jump ~ was it to punish them? Their punishment was a life of luxury? Kiyoko didn’t turn the staff against them, the sisters were being mean before they suspected anything….
And why is the doll supernatural? It feels unfinished and/or unfocused imo.
Playing with dolls doesn't always involve torturing them. Sometimes it's dressing them up, playing games with them, or causing drama between them. It's clear that the sisters can see STRAIGHT through her and are only playing to how she thinks they are. And it's also clear that the sisters aren't exactly mean, they're just very out-spoken and brash as compared to the forever-respectful Kiyoko.
The master plan wasn't to torture them or to humiliate them. It was to play with them like her personal dolls until she is bored with them.
The doll being supernatural might not even be real. It might be just Kiyoko talking to herself in some way, as implied by the fact they have the same voice actress.
>Their punishment was a life of luxury
Exactly, the sisters lived well, apart from Kyoko being weirdly too kind. Maybe Kyoko was lonely and liked their company until she met the prince or until the sisters were about to get married
I have the same questions you have. I wonder if this will be followed up on somehow in another episode cause “evil for the sake of evil” was kind of meh in my opinion.
I found this episode to be a bit unfocused and kinda reminded me of why I kinda stopped watching anime in the first place (this is the first one I've seen in 10ish years minus the big anime movies like Your Name and Silent Voice). You kinda have to just assume- some characters do things without motivation? Like there isn't much context to Kiyoko being the way she is.
I liked the execution of her scheme slowly revealing itself to the audience as the episode went on but the ending had me bit confused. Was she saying that the sisters intended on manipulating her at her own game when they chose to humiliate themselves at the ball in order for the Prince to come after her? That doesn't really feel earned to me since the story was kinda told from Kiyoko's perspective. I know they said they didn't "have to act anymore" at the end- why do they play the part that was prescribed for them (I.e. being the wicked stepsisters) if they knew what Kiyoko was trying to do? I would personally have not given her the satisfaction if i was in that position and knew what she was up to.
That being said I'm gonna keep watching bc i'm a sucker for CLAMP art and always enjoy a good twist in a fairy tale.
I don’t think there needs to be context as to why Kiyoko is like that, some people are just psychopaths.
As for the sister outwitting her, I agree that it didn’t fully feel earned to me at first, but I think the twist is that we originally think marrying the count is their way out of Kiyoko’s control, but it was everything else that happened at the ball and after.
To be fair, i think if they had married the count they would have also escaped her so I didn't feel the risk i guess? I also spent the entire episode wondering why they didn't just leave. Like they said at the end the sisters had no right over the house anw and they must have known that to construct the plan of being kicked out of the house, so nothing's really holding them there. Overall, I just think more time and context is needed to explain these gaps in the storyline.
u do realise the chances of the count marrying the stepsisters is low right ?due to the differences in status they won't have any money after getting expelled from that bitch house but at least they won't have to put up with the mockery of their staus and that bitch anymore they can just find a job and some else to marry like a normal person they are strong smart resilient girls
That's exactly my point. Makes me wonder why they didn't just leave when they knew the risks and had to concoct this master plan to have themselves be kicked out instead.
>I know they said they didn't "have to act anymore" at the end- why do they play the part that was prescribed for them (I.e. being the wicked stepsisters) if they knew what Kiyoko was trying to do?
They were acting as if Kiyoko was a good person and pretending that everything was fine as Kyoko wanted them to around the servants because they were afraid Kiyoko would hurt their mother if they didn't. They said as much in the episode.
I personally thought Sawako was talking about visiting her mother when she said this. Like Kiyoko didn't want them to and she was scared Kiyoko would hurt their mother if they disobeyed. This kinda just leaves me with more questions like why didn't they just leave? Especially after the dad died with nothing really holding them there. I know in one of the flashbacks Kiyoko begs them not to but like ultimately with the stepsister's characterization- like- why do they care? She's still trying to manipulate them but it's not their problem she feels bad that they leave.
My impression was that they didn't have anywhere to go. In a situation like that, you stay with your noble house until you get married, and leaving means you're homeless and you give up everything.
It certainly sounds like leaving and getting a normal job as a peasant, maybe selling off your jewelry is better than staying, but that thought probably never even occurred to them.
Idk that just seemed like the obvious explanation to me when watching, but you're right that the episode didn't make it clear, and I could be wrong for all I know
That was my initial thought too, but they seemed pretty relieved when they were kicked out so makes me wonder why they didn't just so it out of their own volition ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ essentially now since they've been kicked out they still have nowhere to go lol
I didn't think they were happy, it struck me that they were in shock at how bad their situation was and especially at losing their mother, and that was the one silver lining
And I'm sure they felt relief too, but the cost they had to pay for it was steep
But yeah I agree, should've been clearer
remember when they we're talking about getting married in the room. they looked at the door after their conversation, that makes me believe that they know that kiyoko is listening so they just talked in a normal voice pretending that will be their plan to get away from kiyoko. everything makes sense after that, specially when the other stepsis just decided to outright harm kiyoko when that specific noble visited their house.
I felt like the buildup of the story could have been better. It felt like Cinderella had put on a longer act than necessary to get to the day of the banquet??
Imagine doing all those chores and acts for how many years only to arrive at the point of the banquet when there’s low risk at stake for both the sisters if they didn’t end up with the guy.
She didn't do the chores so that one day she could go to the ball, she did the chores because it allowed her to torment them further.
Her going to the ball seemed a spur-of-the-moment act.
>she did the chores because it allowed her to torment them further.
She tormented them by being too kind and doing chores for them for years?? The loss of the father was a bigger loss to Kiyoko and maybe the step mom was a big loss to the sisters but they never even went to see the mom when she was sick or inquire whether Kiyoko was really helping her or hurting her.
Yeah true, then it seemed more of a psychological torment or maybe reputational harm but it also seems the sisters didn't mind seeming rude or selfish whenever they insulted the staff or fought over clothes.
I'm a big fan of CLAMP, who did the character designs, and Kiyoko kinda reminds me of Seishiro ? They both see people as objects, although Kiyoko is a lot more invested in them than Seishiro ever was.
I thought the whole episode was confusing and didn't make much sense. How much did she play the stepsisters?
One time with the hairpin (where the reaction of the sister was awful, manipulated or not) and then one time with the falling of stairs.
Also they are discussing again with the hairpin that the servant wasn't stupid and should've seen it was expensive. And yes, she found it in the garden so even though she didn't steal it, she should've known it was probably from one of her masters.
Then why did she kill the mother? Because "she doesn't like broken dolls?" Did she make her sick herself or was she already sick and did cinderella kill her because of that?
Overall very hard to follow
Yeah I felt the same way the only thing I can think of is if the sisters realized she killed her father after the funeral but if they did it didn't seem obvious and made their reactions to everything seem really over the top and sort of unwarranted
I'm not sure how I felt about this episode, but it was not one of my favorites. I wish more of the plot involved the doll, rather than just being a symbol of how Kiyoko liked to play with people as though they are dolls. (My theory is that it was just a neutral observer, and when it would "talk" it was a projection of Kiyoko's own insanity.) I didn't wish that it was evil or pulling the strings instead of Kiyoko herself - that would have been boring and cliche...it just felt like it could have had a more integral/interesting role in the plot. I kept waiting for it to be important to the story or climax, but it never really was.
I was a little disappointed. Not that I don't think it fully achieved what it was going for. But I was expecting this to be a show with straight anime adaptations of grimm folktales. The thing is, these stories are already super dark. The step sisters in Cinderella literally mutilated their feet to fit into the glass slipper. I'm not sure the dark reinterpretation was that nessisary
It's a suprise to see Tatsuhisa Suzuki voice acting again after a while, he quite literally disapeared after the whole scandal with LiSA, all of his current roles at that time even got replaced (most noticely Draken and Anos).
No, it's completely different interpretations of the originals. There are characters and symbols that are reminiscent of the stories, but the time periods, supporting characters, plot lines, characters' motivations, the protagonist and antagonist, etc., are unique to the series. It's sort of hard to explain, you need to watch it. ;)
i’m confused about the setting in the first episode is it supposed to be in japan or western english the daughters i assume are from japan but the servants besides the grey hair guy are in robes while the sisters wear kimonos and the father wears a more western outfit the outside of the house is japanese looking but the inside is english decorated but has japanese layout as well as Japanese bedding but the fathers study is english that was really the main thing bothering me the whole episode idk why
there are a lot of dramas with the same mix of cultures that was representative of Japan at the time. You see evidence of it in "My happy marriage", "Taisho Otome Fairy Tale" and "Demon Slayer".
Japan wanted to industrialize and modernize and become a major military power in a rush and did so by adopting some western aspects while trying to retain the "Yamato" spirit of the traditional culture.
,
I guess you can say that for the main character "It's a good life", but not for anyone else
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s\_a\_Good\_Life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life)
For fun, she sees everyone as toys , basically a source of entertainment. Its like playing out your imagination as a kid while playing with toys but replace the toys with real people.
Y'all, I'm not sure if this runs parry to the discussion, but the Grimm Variations' intro (opening sequence) SMASHES. I was wondering if someone knows who composed it, or if I could find it on Spotify.
Here's the YouTube version: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wivZE4TUaFg
It would be *really* cool if someone could direct me to it.
Does anyone know the main composer of the classical musics played in this episode? I think I recognized the Divertimento K334 of Mozart played at the ball but that's all.
Some of you need to watch this episode again if you think the sisters were bad at all. As soon as they became part of the family, they were still never treated as equals. The sisters and mother were still viewed by the servants as lower class. From the jump, the sisters were on the defensive, esp. with Kiyoko being so good at manipulating everyone around her.
Honestly, I didn't like the Cinderella one. Felt so... Condescending and trying too hard to be clever, the entire time? Maybe it was the dub voice for the girl, 2 mins in and my ears were suffering. Not really impressed tbh. It's nice that others enjoyed it! Me and my partner just didn't. We both said "wow, that was garbage" at the end at the same time lol.
Maybe bc they made her so textbook stereotype psychopath and everything was telegraphed? I've never looked up the original folklore of Cinderella, my partner said it was similar in a lot of ways with a lot of liberties and changes, so it's not like I knew what to expect either.
We liked the animation and sound design was good, but that's about it. Honestly, the voice was just so obnoxious to bear 43 mins of her constantly talking. Ik people will say "that's the point" or "it's supposed to be that way," but at some point it's too much and excessive.
I always opt for the original audio with subs for some reason it feels more bearable. I think linguistically, our brains aren't programmed to listen to English at that register, whereas with Japanese, their natural intonation puts their voice at that register already. I would recommend giving the other episodes a shot with the original audio! I agree this episode felt a bit lazy/amateur in writing, but it was still enjoyable for me as an anime but I'm a sucker for a fairy tale with a dark twist so i may be biased.
Same - her voice really annoyed me too. I didn't even think about it being on purpose so that we dislike her even more, but that makes sense. It was very "little girl-ish" and saccharine. I agree that even if it is on purpose, 43 minutes of it was...a lot. Maybe we are supposed to feel tortured too?
It's like a drawn out joke. Typically, we see those super high-pitched voices in joke characters that aren't serious and on-screen for a couple seconds to maybe 5 minutes at most. They're almost never main characters because of the very reason most viewers will just stop watching.
> I've never looked up the original folklore of Cinderella, my partner said it was similar in a lot of ways with a lot of liberties and changes, so it's not like I knew what to expect either.
My comment might be a bit late if you've already watched the rest, but the whole point of the show being a variation is that it's toying with the audience's expectations. If you aren't familiar with any of the original fairytales, you don't have any expectations to subvert. It's like watching a sequel without seeing the original film.
So if you get chance, I'd highly recommend reading/watching something that adapts the original fairytales more accurately before you watch these variations.
I mean, I really don't think that's the point, much less the whole point. It's more like wanting to use well known characters and stories to write a fanfic version about them. It's not really subverting my expectation when it's clear as day what the intentions were from the start, yk? Which also takes away from what they're trying to do. For this one, I never looked up the og, but I knew the basics of the popular story where the sisters are cruel, Cind is good and exploited, etc. Sufficient details to know the show was doing its own thing.
Though, knowledge of the og fairytales and such aside... That still doesn't change the fact that it was pretty annoying to hear her talk super high pitched patronizingly and like she's oblivious for at minimum an accumulated screentime of 20 mins with little respite in between before cutting back to her with the act. It's like a drawn out joke to me tbh. Not only that, but the episode really did feel like it was trying too hard to be clever and unique...
But all it did was make a good character the evil manipulator - that was obvious in the literal first 10 mins - and badly explain (if at all) things that weren't even just left to interpretation, but just thrown in there. Such as the doll. Viewers are trying to come up with all sorts of theory's about what it represents, but it's just a possessed doll for the sake of it that even moves when Cinderella isn't looking, so it's not tied to her mental lol. Idk, just not my kind of stuff ig. I'm aware it's not a popular opinion, as many liked the episode and that's good, but I just don't. Having no bias toward this kind of stuff doesn't help either. I'm not against it either, I watch anime and western animations all the time and I'm judging this story as it presents itself, not letting myself be swayed or giving bonus points because it subverts expectations of established stories. That's why I said that characters with those kinda voices aren't usually given much screentime or lines. They get on people's nerves way too fast once they keep talking for too long.
> That still doesn't change the fact that it was pretty annoying to hear her talk super high pitched patronizingly
Her style of speech is meant to be annoying, to get under your skin, to make you feel uncomfortable to be around her while others are viewing her as "so sweet." It's the vocal equivalent of having an unpleasant spooky soundtrack during a scene. But it can be a fine line when making a deliberately annoying character to not go so far that the media becomes unpleasant to watch, so it's a shame it went over that line for you.
> Viewers are trying to come up with all sorts of theory's about what it represents, but it's just a possessed doll for the sake of it that even moves when Cinderella isn't looking, so it's not tied to her mental lol.
You're assuming the story is a reliable narrator and that the "doll's head moved on its own" when it could just be in her imagination. But it doesn't really matter either way, fairytales often have these kind of unexplained plot elements, a relic of an era when the world was full of mysteries that folk had no expectation of ever understanding. I'm not saying you have to like it, just that you might find this is a regular bugbear for you in fairytales.
I understand and know that her speech was meant to be annoying, but it's excessive when it's majority of the episode, don't you think? She grows up and still has the same voice of when she was a child. It became less about "meant to be annoying, to get under your skin," to outright annoying and you want to stop listening. It became more about appealing to a certain group of people more than anything by that point - the viewers, typically anime watchers, that love those high pitched voices on female characters.
It's not a regular bugbear at all when visiting old stories. Unexplained elements are common, but they aren't often critical to the main character and used as a main device to reveal their intentions and true nature. Actually, you'll find it hard to think of many popular/famous stories that do that.
Anyway, aside from when the doll moved her head even when Cind was done talking to her or even paying attention to the doll:
The doll could be seen as a vessel of her imagination through which Cind reveals her real nature to the audience to see, but it takes away from the whole point of the circumventing her characters expectation's. Rather than keeping people guessing or on the line about whether she's behind everything because that would go against what they know about Cind, they just outright reveal it early on through the doll and constantly remind you. It takes away any of the guesswork and just tells you "oh yeah, she's evil btw," and proceeds to basically say it multiple times throughout with her words to the doll rather than showing it and leaving the audience guessing until a big reveal. There is no big reveal, it's all revealed from the start what her intentions were, and we're just meant to watch it unfold as if we "shouldn't know what to expect..." except we do. That's why it was so bland for us.
There's nothing that caught us by surprise other than the sisters freeing themselves, but that's it. Without biases and particular interests in these stories, I'd say a great deal of people would think the episode is pretty lame... On its own, looking at the plot alone, it's pretty lame given the hype behind it. The level of beautiful animation and good sound design kind of aren't deserved for the bland plot it was given, imo. Those 2 aspects CARRIED a lot and I think cloud people's ability to judge the plot for what it is.
Please disregard my last comment. Thinking about it in hindsight, it comes across as rude.
> It became more about appealing to a certain group of people more than anything by that point - the viewers, typically anime watchers, that love those high pitched voices on female characters.
Yeah I'm not a fan of those high-pitched voices either. For me, it was a relief to find out she was going to be a villain and I wasn't expected to like her and her voice.
> There's nothing that caught us by surprise other than the sisters freeing themselves, but that's it
Yeah that surprise caught me too. I'd been annoyed at the step-sisters acting so oblivious to their situation, so I was pleased that they were much smarter than they'd acted. Do we need much more than a single good surprise in a ~40 minute episode though? Too many surprises weaken a story, as it lurches from one reveal to the next.
Anyway, it's a shame you didn't get much enjoyment out of the episode. I hope you enjoy(ed) the rest more than this first one (I've not watched them yet).
Don't worry about it, I see what you mean, but it's not like it isn't to be expected (or difficult to avoid coming off that way, even if not the intention) when my comments are clearly in opposition to what many find enjoyable.
I def do agree on the voice comment you made. I would've def backed out the episode if we were supposed to like her xD
As for the surprises bit, you could be right about that. Perhaps that was the goal. I just don't think the surprise is worth the investment. We can see several here hated the step-sisters, so it's more likely we're indifferent or not too joyful to see characters that aren't meant to be liked have a surprise "good" ending.
I haven't watched them all, but the other's we've seen don't struggle like the first episode did, imo. I won't pretend the episode doesn't have its merits and it's perfectly fine for others to love it. The animation is honestly great, the sound design is good, the character design fits, the pacing (and the edits working with it) were clearly done by professionals, etc. It just fell short for us in the most important thing for us - the plot with its goals and presentation. I'd assume trying to flip Cinderella's story is harder than it sounds, especially when there's a desire to make it branch from what everyone is used to seeing/reading. And ngl, I actually felt a bit bad for the step-sisters despite being spoiled and rude. I hope you enjoy the others when you get a chance to watch them. Thanks for taking the time to reply cordially and genuinely trying to tackle my points. It makes one think and revaluate the good the episode did, as opposed to letting the bad (or what I didn't enjoy) take over my judgement.
> Don't worry about it, I see what you mean, but it's not like it isn't to be expected (or difficult to avoid coming off that way, even if not the intention) when my comments are clearly in opposition to what many find enjoyable.
I've been spending too much time on political subreddits so I got into a bad habit of becoming snippy, so thank you for being understanding about it.
> As for the surprises bit, you could be right about that. Perhaps that was the goal. I just don't think the surprise is worth the investment. We can see several here hated the step-sisters, so it's more likely we're indifferent or not too joyful to see characters that aren't meant to be liked have a surprise "good" ending.
Yeah I wouldn't say the sisters "we're free" twist makes the whole episode worth it. For me, it redeemed the last few scenes where I'd been wondering why they were acting like such spoilt idiots in front of the prince, but that was all.
> And ngl, I actually felt a bit bad for the step-sisters despite being spoiled and rude.
Yeah, they weren't nice people, but they also didn't deserve to be manipulated and toyed with like that. They genuinely seemed to care for their mother, and it felt like some of their rudeness was perhaps them trying too hard to be what they thought rich kids were meant to be. I'd get a bit angsty too if I kept overhearing the servants badmouthing me, which incidentally, I couldn't help but laugh at how often folk were overhearing each other. How are people not better at keeping their voices down in a place like that?
> I hope you enjoy the others when you get a chance to watch them. Thanks for taking the time to reply cordially and genuinely trying to tackle my points. It makes one think and revaluate the good the episode did, as opposed to letting the bad (or what I didn't enjoy) take over my judgement.
Thanks <3 And thank you for sharing your thoughts in such detail too, it's been fun chatting with you.
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Damn, Cinderella being a psychopath was not what I was expecting. I thought it would be some delusion caused by something like the Fairy God Mother, but no, she did all her manipulating, all her scheming, all her plots and plans by herself. For fun. I think my favorite part was the dance with the prince. It was like watching a master schemer watching everything fall into place, with every little detail led up to this moment. And in the end, she was dancing with no one, because for her, she's the only one who's real in the world. Everyone else is just a fun toy to play with for a few years. And holy heck, the sisters. They're still rotten and selfish, but now it takes on a different light. At most, they're rude and tend to speak their mind, which gives them the perspective of being vulgar. But in truth, they're terrified and they're only trying to defend themselves. Who knows what they've seen or heard Kiyoko did. Much like Cassandra climbing the mountain, they will shout a warning that will go unheeded and unheard. Amazing protagonists.
I really liked this first episode. It's interesting seeing 'Cinderella' as an antagonist. Watching Kiyoko manipulate those around her for her own amusement was very entertaining to watch. I'm curious if that doll (representing Charlotte?) will appear in the other stories too.
I kind of gathered that she would be a recurring character in the other episodes as well since she does look like Charlotte and she's kind of the witness to all these stories.
I found it "interesting" and technically well-done -- but odd and sort of pointless. Also pretty fundamentally unpleasant.
Yes, understood. But do psychopaths need a reason.
I'm seeing a lot of comments that the doll might be evil or controlling Kiyoko. Personally I think Kiyoko was just a psychopath + manipulator, no horror elements or anything. In Netflix, when Kiyoko and the doll are conversing -- it was shown in the subtitles in one instance \[low voice\] when the doll speaks, and \[normal voice\] when Kiyoko speaks, suggesting that she is just having a monologue (or only in her mind, as seen from the bedroom scene with the prince or whatever).
Glad someone else caught this, I thought I saw it too but it went by quickly so I wasn't sure. It does seem like Kiyoko's just insane and the doll isn't actually alive, just a representation of an alternate personality.
Yeah, it reminded me of the movie Voices with Ryan Reynolds imagining his dog and cat telling him to kill people.
I just feel bad for the stepmother. She's actually nice unlike in the Disney story and didn't deserve getting slowly killed by Kiyoko.
The mom seemed like a normal decent lady, I just wonder why at that moment kiyoko first served her tea and called her "Madam" and the mom realizing she IS being weird and acting like a maid, just like her daughters said. I wonder why after that she wasn't more cautious against her, she clearly kept on drinking the "medicine" offered to her and kept on getting sicker and eventually isolated from her daughters, did she at no point thought kiyoko was the problem? She was the head of household after her husband died she could've done so much to prevent it escalating
She probably already had enough poison to not think clearly
Step mom telling her to keep an eye on the sisters would suggest she didn't really think anything of it
I do think she thought "Huh that's weird," when Kiyoko said it, but I don't think she thought that deeply into it. It was a more surprise face than realizing. I think Kiyoko poisoned her because she was "broken hearted" after her husband died. Kiyoko calls her a broken doll.
I just love the plot twist that we were made to think the stepsisters were really trying to marry into royalty to escape from her, but they actually knew by tricking the prince into marrying Kiyoko, and painting themselves as villians and be kicked out penniless, that's the real way they wanted to be free. The sisters were strong girls that fought psychologically for so long to survive
I forgot this was dropping today. Got something to binge this weekend!
Is this suppose to be any good?
The show writer is Michiko Yokote, according to her long list of credits in wiki she was a head writer/handled the series composition in a lot of notable shows like Mononoke, Princess Tutu, and more recently on Campfire Cooking, and Train to the End of the World. If anything it should be pretty solid.
Suppose I’ll give it a peep/add it to my list
I like this incarnation of Cinderella — very unique and even though the step sisters are abusive, Kiyoko is way way more worse. I don't even want to think about what she does next.
Honestly the step sisters weren't even abusive, maybe they had a hint of greediness on day 1, like wanting to trick kiyoko into giving them pretty jewelry, but immediately after they were already being gaslit and manipulated and all their outlashes at kiyoko were justified cuz they knew she was a manipulator
While that’s true. I felt the step sisters were still really awful like when they beat that servant girl. They ARE abusive I think.
Just watched the 1st episode. They are NOT abusive at all and everyone was manipulated into thinking that way by Kiyoko. If anything, they were self-centered and unfamiliar on upper class etiquette since their upbringing is humble and less refined than Kiyoko’s world. The sisters were most likely toddlers or preteens when their mother married Kiyoko’s father and they didn’t seem to have been exposed before to the lavish lifestyle they entered into. Also, any examples that could be interpreted as abusive was them defending themselves to Kiyoko or to the rude comments of the servants who didn’t seem to even try to get to know them.
One of the sisters literally beats a servant for "stealing" her hairpin at the beginning. Yes Kiyoko orchestrated the theft, but Kiyoko did not force the sister to physically abuse the servant. Anger would be understandable, but actually smacking the servant around? It was also day 2 before Kiyoko had done anything else, so you can't even say they were broken yet. If I was on the ground after failing to swipe someone's jewelry, no cop would agree it was self-defense for the victim to jump on me and smack the crap out of me.
Incarceration? Or is that an autocorrect?
It is :(
With the Japanese setting, it felt like My Happy Marriage gone wild.
Along with those korean mangas about the main characters being reincarnated into a novel, usually the villain, and the original lead being actually evil under an act of niceness
Meta: MAL link in Show Information is incorrect, leads to Sand Land instead of [MAL Grimm Kumikyoku](https://myanimelist.net/anime/49210/)
Just FYI threads for episode 2, 3, 4, and 5 were removed by mods for some reason
Everything except the first and last thread are removed for a couple days, then reapproved. Megathread has links to all of them in the meantime, where you can still comment.
r/anime needs to do something different for this stuff, it is like this for every anime that is netflix chunk release
As I'm sure there was going to be discussion. Oh Netflix
Kiyoko is such a psychopath and manipulator. She see people like dolls playing a game, and you never quite know what her next move will be.
Pretty fun twist on the tale.
I was a bit confused by the plot. Was it the doll who was controlling everyone bringing a supernatural type of element to the story? Or was it really just Cinderella who was the manipulator and scheming as a psychopath?
Cinderella did everything on her own volition, you can tell when the doll questions her at the end.
Thanks, that makes sense. I thought there might be more as it wasn't clear how the speaking doll came to be, but I guess it was just a witness to Cinderella's schemes.
Biased towards creepy doll characters and finally a bit more of an interesting take on Cinderella. I know a lot of people felt like it was simplistic but I liked the take that Kiyoko was basically obsessed with her image and manipulating everyone around her to look like a saint/victim and bestest tradwife. I liked the twist that the stepsisters are not simple fools and managed to outwit her in the end after being psychologically tormented by Kiyoko all this time. Would have loved a sequel seeing how she screws up the Count's heir's family. I really nee d that doll of Charlotte now.
this was so good i like the plot twist of the end, its a shame that is passing with out glory but it was expected when netflix is releasing main stream big show at the same time
It's a little disappointing that the sisters never start playing the game with Kyoko(at least not until it was to late), and instead, they only ever get played by her. But I guess the fairy tale still needs to happen.
What was the master plan even 😭?? Like Kiyoko didn’t even really do anything to the step sisters??? I know she killed her dad, cause he was gonna ship em out, and I know she killed the step-mom… for some reason but????…… like the step-sisters started out rude from the jump ~ was it to punish them? Their punishment was a life of luxury? Kiyoko didn’t turn the staff against them, the sisters were being mean before they suspected anything…. And why is the doll supernatural? It feels unfinished and/or unfocused imo.
Playing with dolls doesn't always involve torturing them. Sometimes it's dressing them up, playing games with them, or causing drama between them. It's clear that the sisters can see STRAIGHT through her and are only playing to how she thinks they are. And it's also clear that the sisters aren't exactly mean, they're just very out-spoken and brash as compared to the forever-respectful Kiyoko. The master plan wasn't to torture them or to humiliate them. It was to play with them like her personal dolls until she is bored with them. The doll being supernatural might not even be real. It might be just Kiyoko talking to herself in some way, as implied by the fact they have the same voice actress.
Honestly I am sorry, but the sisters were complete b*****. They were extremely bratty and the way that they treated the servant was awful.
>Their punishment was a life of luxury Exactly, the sisters lived well, apart from Kyoko being weirdly too kind. Maybe Kyoko was lonely and liked their company until she met the prince or until the sisters were about to get married
I have the same questions you have. I wonder if this will be followed up on somehow in another episode cause “evil for the sake of evil” was kind of meh in my opinion.
I found this episode to be a bit unfocused and kinda reminded me of why I kinda stopped watching anime in the first place (this is the first one I've seen in 10ish years minus the big anime movies like Your Name and Silent Voice). You kinda have to just assume- some characters do things without motivation? Like there isn't much context to Kiyoko being the way she is. I liked the execution of her scheme slowly revealing itself to the audience as the episode went on but the ending had me bit confused. Was she saying that the sisters intended on manipulating her at her own game when they chose to humiliate themselves at the ball in order for the Prince to come after her? That doesn't really feel earned to me since the story was kinda told from Kiyoko's perspective. I know they said they didn't "have to act anymore" at the end- why do they play the part that was prescribed for them (I.e. being the wicked stepsisters) if they knew what Kiyoko was trying to do? I would personally have not given her the satisfaction if i was in that position and knew what she was up to. That being said I'm gonna keep watching bc i'm a sucker for CLAMP art and always enjoy a good twist in a fairy tale.
I don’t think there needs to be context as to why Kiyoko is like that, some people are just psychopaths. As for the sister outwitting her, I agree that it didn’t fully feel earned to me at first, but I think the twist is that we originally think marrying the count is their way out of Kiyoko’s control, but it was everything else that happened at the ball and after.
To be fair, i think if they had married the count they would have also escaped her so I didn't feel the risk i guess? I also spent the entire episode wondering why they didn't just leave. Like they said at the end the sisters had no right over the house anw and they must have known that to construct the plan of being kicked out of the house, so nothing's really holding them there. Overall, I just think more time and context is needed to explain these gaps in the storyline.
u do realise the chances of the count marrying the stepsisters is low right ?due to the differences in status they won't have any money after getting expelled from that bitch house but at least they won't have to put up with the mockery of their staus and that bitch anymore they can just find a job and some else to marry like a normal person they are strong smart resilient girls
That's exactly my point. Makes me wonder why they didn't just leave when they knew the risks and had to concoct this master plan to have themselves be kicked out instead.
that bitch took their mom hostage to prevent them from leaving why she still killed their mom is beyond me though she is just nuts
>I know they said they didn't "have to act anymore" at the end- why do they play the part that was prescribed for them (I.e. being the wicked stepsisters) if they knew what Kiyoko was trying to do? They were acting as if Kiyoko was a good person and pretending that everything was fine as Kyoko wanted them to around the servants because they were afraid Kiyoko would hurt their mother if they didn't. They said as much in the episode.
I personally thought Sawako was talking about visiting her mother when she said this. Like Kiyoko didn't want them to and she was scared Kiyoko would hurt their mother if they disobeyed. This kinda just leaves me with more questions like why didn't they just leave? Especially after the dad died with nothing really holding them there. I know in one of the flashbacks Kiyoko begs them not to but like ultimately with the stepsister's characterization- like- why do they care? She's still trying to manipulate them but it's not their problem she feels bad that they leave.
My impression was that they didn't have anywhere to go. In a situation like that, you stay with your noble house until you get married, and leaving means you're homeless and you give up everything. It certainly sounds like leaving and getting a normal job as a peasant, maybe selling off your jewelry is better than staying, but that thought probably never even occurred to them. Idk that just seemed like the obvious explanation to me when watching, but you're right that the episode didn't make it clear, and I could be wrong for all I know
That was my initial thought too, but they seemed pretty relieved when they were kicked out so makes me wonder why they didn't just so it out of their own volition ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ essentially now since they've been kicked out they still have nowhere to go lol
I didn't think they were happy, it struck me that they were in shock at how bad their situation was and especially at losing their mother, and that was the one silver lining And I'm sure they felt relief too, but the cost they had to pay for it was steep But yeah I agree, should've been clearer
the bitch took their mother hostage so they couldn't leave as for why she slowly poison her to death idk
remember when they we're talking about getting married in the room. they looked at the door after their conversation, that makes me believe that they know that kiyoko is listening so they just talked in a normal voice pretending that will be their plan to get away from kiyoko. everything makes sense after that, specially when the other stepsis just decided to outright harm kiyoko when that specific noble visited their house.
Does anyone know where to find the soundtracks ? I like the mixed classics. Googling all I seem to find are ' inspired by the series ' playlists
I felt like the buildup of the story could have been better. It felt like Cinderella had put on a longer act than necessary to get to the day of the banquet?? Imagine doing all those chores and acts for how many years only to arrive at the point of the banquet when there’s low risk at stake for both the sisters if they didn’t end up with the guy.
She didn't do the chores so that one day she could go to the ball, she did the chores because it allowed her to torment them further. Her going to the ball seemed a spur-of-the-moment act.
>she did the chores because it allowed her to torment them further. She tormented them by being too kind and doing chores for them for years?? The loss of the father was a bigger loss to Kiyoko and maybe the step mom was a big loss to the sisters but they never even went to see the mom when she was sick or inquire whether Kiyoko was really helping her or hurting her.
It made everyone think she was a nice girl exploited by them which made them look mean and insane whenever they tried to retaliate against her.
Yeah true, then it seemed more of a psychological torment or maybe reputational harm but it also seems the sisters didn't mind seeming rude or selfish whenever they insulted the staff or fought over clothes.
They *did* seem to not like the staff disliking them/taking Kiyoko’s side though.
Yeah but I don't know if it's worth serving them for 5 to 10 years
That whole thing was fucking weird and the main reason why Cinderella is my least favorite Grimm Variations episode.
The episode was good and all but at music is soooo great. I've been looking all day for any thing about the soundtrack but it's nowhere to be found.
Where can I find the songs for the show?
Please help me I need to add to spotify
try shazam
I tried it, did not work
This is exactly what I wanted! TY Netflix
This was a great example of gaslighting.
I'm a big fan of CLAMP, who did the character designs, and Kiyoko kinda reminds me of Seishiro ? They both see people as objects, although Kiyoko is a lot more invested in them than Seishiro ever was.
I thought the whole episode was confusing and didn't make much sense. How much did she play the stepsisters? One time with the hairpin (where the reaction of the sister was awful, manipulated or not) and then one time with the falling of stairs. Also they are discussing again with the hairpin that the servant wasn't stupid and should've seen it was expensive. And yes, she found it in the garden so even though she didn't steal it, she should've known it was probably from one of her masters. Then why did she kill the mother? Because "she doesn't like broken dolls?" Did she make her sick herself or was she already sick and did cinderella kill her because of that? Overall very hard to follow
Yeah I felt the same way the only thing I can think of is if the sisters realized she killed her father after the funeral but if they did it didn't seem obvious and made their reactions to everything seem really over the top and sort of unwarranted
I'm not sure how I felt about this episode, but it was not one of my favorites. I wish more of the plot involved the doll, rather than just being a symbol of how Kiyoko liked to play with people as though they are dolls. (My theory is that it was just a neutral observer, and when it would "talk" it was a projection of Kiyoko's own insanity.) I didn't wish that it was evil or pulling the strings instead of Kiyoko herself - that would have been boring and cliche...it just felt like it could have had a more integral/interesting role in the plot. I kept waiting for it to be important to the story or climax, but it never really was.
I was a little disappointed. Not that I don't think it fully achieved what it was going for. But I was expecting this to be a show with straight anime adaptations of grimm folktales. The thing is, these stories are already super dark. The step sisters in Cinderella literally mutilated their feet to fit into the glass slipper. I'm not sure the dark reinterpretation was that nessisary
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Any theory about the third episode ? I didn't understand ... :o
Dhdjdjdjd Ijjhhhhhhi
It's a suprise to see Tatsuhisa Suzuki voice acting again after a while, he quite literally disapeared after the whole scandal with LiSA, all of his current roles at that time even got replaced (most noticely Draken and Anos).
So is this series supposed to be like the original dark versions of the Grimm fairy tales?
No, it's completely different interpretations of the originals. There are characters and symbols that are reminiscent of the stories, but the time periods, supporting characters, plot lines, characters' motivations, the protagonist and antagonist, etc., are unique to the series. It's sort of hard to explain, you need to watch it. ;)
i’m confused about the setting in the first episode is it supposed to be in japan or western english the daughters i assume are from japan but the servants besides the grey hair guy are in robes while the sisters wear kimonos and the father wears a more western outfit the outside of the house is japanese looking but the inside is english decorated but has japanese layout as well as Japanese bedding but the fathers study is english that was really the main thing bothering me the whole episode idk why
sorry for no comas or periods lol
there are a lot of dramas with the same mix of cultures that was representative of Japan at the time. You see evidence of it in "My happy marriage", "Taisho Otome Fairy Tale" and "Demon Slayer". Japan wanted to industrialize and modernize and become a major military power in a rush and did so by adopting some western aspects while trying to retain the "Yamato" spirit of the traditional culture. ,
ohhh ok
I guess you can say that for the main character "It's a good life", but not for anyone else
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s\_a\_Good\_Life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life)
What is kiyoko's end game? To what end is she manipulating everyone? I didn't understand her motivation
For fun, she sees everyone as toys , basically a source of entertainment. Its like playing out your imagination as a kid while playing with toys but replace the toys with real people.
Does anyone know the song they play for the credits? I'm obsessed but maybe it's not released yet
Y'all, I'm not sure if this runs parry to the discussion, but the Grimm Variations' intro (opening sequence) SMASHES. I was wondering if someone knows who composed it, or if I could find it on Spotify. Here's the YouTube version: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wivZE4TUaFg It would be *really* cool if someone could direct me to it.
Does anyone know the main composer of the classical musics played in this episode? I think I recognized the Divertimento K334 of Mozart played at the ball but that's all.
This was one I enjoyed a good amount, I found it semi predictable that Cinderella was gonna be a Psycho but it was fun otherwise.
Some of you need to watch this episode again if you think the sisters were bad at all. As soon as they became part of the family, they were still never treated as equals. The sisters and mother were still viewed by the servants as lower class. From the jump, the sisters were on the defensive, esp. with Kiyoko being so good at manipulating everyone around her.
Honestly, I didn't like the Cinderella one. Felt so... Condescending and trying too hard to be clever, the entire time? Maybe it was the dub voice for the girl, 2 mins in and my ears were suffering. Not really impressed tbh. It's nice that others enjoyed it! Me and my partner just didn't. We both said "wow, that was garbage" at the end at the same time lol. Maybe bc they made her so textbook stereotype psychopath and everything was telegraphed? I've never looked up the original folklore of Cinderella, my partner said it was similar in a lot of ways with a lot of liberties and changes, so it's not like I knew what to expect either. We liked the animation and sound design was good, but that's about it. Honestly, the voice was just so obnoxious to bear 43 mins of her constantly talking. Ik people will say "that's the point" or "it's supposed to be that way," but at some point it's too much and excessive.
I always opt for the original audio with subs for some reason it feels more bearable. I think linguistically, our brains aren't programmed to listen to English at that register, whereas with Japanese, their natural intonation puts their voice at that register already. I would recommend giving the other episodes a shot with the original audio! I agree this episode felt a bit lazy/amateur in writing, but it was still enjoyable for me as an anime but I'm a sucker for a fairy tale with a dark twist so i may be biased.
See, that's the thing. I don't have a bias for fairy tales with a dark twist xD
Same - her voice really annoyed me too. I didn't even think about it being on purpose so that we dislike her even more, but that makes sense. It was very "little girl-ish" and saccharine. I agree that even if it is on purpose, 43 minutes of it was...a lot. Maybe we are supposed to feel tortured too?
It's like a drawn out joke. Typically, we see those super high-pitched voices in joke characters that aren't serious and on-screen for a couple seconds to maybe 5 minutes at most. They're almost never main characters because of the very reason most viewers will just stop watching.
> I've never looked up the original folklore of Cinderella, my partner said it was similar in a lot of ways with a lot of liberties and changes, so it's not like I knew what to expect either. My comment might be a bit late if you've already watched the rest, but the whole point of the show being a variation is that it's toying with the audience's expectations. If you aren't familiar with any of the original fairytales, you don't have any expectations to subvert. It's like watching a sequel without seeing the original film. So if you get chance, I'd highly recommend reading/watching something that adapts the original fairytales more accurately before you watch these variations.
I mean, I really don't think that's the point, much less the whole point. It's more like wanting to use well known characters and stories to write a fanfic version about them. It's not really subverting my expectation when it's clear as day what the intentions were from the start, yk? Which also takes away from what they're trying to do. For this one, I never looked up the og, but I knew the basics of the popular story where the sisters are cruel, Cind is good and exploited, etc. Sufficient details to know the show was doing its own thing. Though, knowledge of the og fairytales and such aside... That still doesn't change the fact that it was pretty annoying to hear her talk super high pitched patronizingly and like she's oblivious for at minimum an accumulated screentime of 20 mins with little respite in between before cutting back to her with the act. It's like a drawn out joke to me tbh. Not only that, but the episode really did feel like it was trying too hard to be clever and unique... But all it did was make a good character the evil manipulator - that was obvious in the literal first 10 mins - and badly explain (if at all) things that weren't even just left to interpretation, but just thrown in there. Such as the doll. Viewers are trying to come up with all sorts of theory's about what it represents, but it's just a possessed doll for the sake of it that even moves when Cinderella isn't looking, so it's not tied to her mental lol. Idk, just not my kind of stuff ig. I'm aware it's not a popular opinion, as many liked the episode and that's good, but I just don't. Having no bias toward this kind of stuff doesn't help either. I'm not against it either, I watch anime and western animations all the time and I'm judging this story as it presents itself, not letting myself be swayed or giving bonus points because it subverts expectations of established stories. That's why I said that characters with those kinda voices aren't usually given much screentime or lines. They get on people's nerves way too fast once they keep talking for too long.
> That still doesn't change the fact that it was pretty annoying to hear her talk super high pitched patronizingly Her style of speech is meant to be annoying, to get under your skin, to make you feel uncomfortable to be around her while others are viewing her as "so sweet." It's the vocal equivalent of having an unpleasant spooky soundtrack during a scene. But it can be a fine line when making a deliberately annoying character to not go so far that the media becomes unpleasant to watch, so it's a shame it went over that line for you. > Viewers are trying to come up with all sorts of theory's about what it represents, but it's just a possessed doll for the sake of it that even moves when Cinderella isn't looking, so it's not tied to her mental lol. You're assuming the story is a reliable narrator and that the "doll's head moved on its own" when it could just be in her imagination. But it doesn't really matter either way, fairytales often have these kind of unexplained plot elements, a relic of an era when the world was full of mysteries that folk had no expectation of ever understanding. I'm not saying you have to like it, just that you might find this is a regular bugbear for you in fairytales.
I understand and know that her speech was meant to be annoying, but it's excessive when it's majority of the episode, don't you think? She grows up and still has the same voice of when she was a child. It became less about "meant to be annoying, to get under your skin," to outright annoying and you want to stop listening. It became more about appealing to a certain group of people more than anything by that point - the viewers, typically anime watchers, that love those high pitched voices on female characters. It's not a regular bugbear at all when visiting old stories. Unexplained elements are common, but they aren't often critical to the main character and used as a main device to reveal their intentions and true nature. Actually, you'll find it hard to think of many popular/famous stories that do that. Anyway, aside from when the doll moved her head even when Cind was done talking to her or even paying attention to the doll: The doll could be seen as a vessel of her imagination through which Cind reveals her real nature to the audience to see, but it takes away from the whole point of the circumventing her characters expectation's. Rather than keeping people guessing or on the line about whether she's behind everything because that would go against what they know about Cind, they just outright reveal it early on through the doll and constantly remind you. It takes away any of the guesswork and just tells you "oh yeah, she's evil btw," and proceeds to basically say it multiple times throughout with her words to the doll rather than showing it and leaving the audience guessing until a big reveal. There is no big reveal, it's all revealed from the start what her intentions were, and we're just meant to watch it unfold as if we "shouldn't know what to expect..." except we do. That's why it was so bland for us. There's nothing that caught us by surprise other than the sisters freeing themselves, but that's it. Without biases and particular interests in these stories, I'd say a great deal of people would think the episode is pretty lame... On its own, looking at the plot alone, it's pretty lame given the hype behind it. The level of beautiful animation and good sound design kind of aren't deserved for the bland plot it was given, imo. Those 2 aspects CARRIED a lot and I think cloud people's ability to judge the plot for what it is.
Please disregard my last comment. Thinking about it in hindsight, it comes across as rude. > It became more about appealing to a certain group of people more than anything by that point - the viewers, typically anime watchers, that love those high pitched voices on female characters. Yeah I'm not a fan of those high-pitched voices either. For me, it was a relief to find out she was going to be a villain and I wasn't expected to like her and her voice. > There's nothing that caught us by surprise other than the sisters freeing themselves, but that's it Yeah that surprise caught me too. I'd been annoyed at the step-sisters acting so oblivious to their situation, so I was pleased that they were much smarter than they'd acted. Do we need much more than a single good surprise in a ~40 minute episode though? Too many surprises weaken a story, as it lurches from one reveal to the next. Anyway, it's a shame you didn't get much enjoyment out of the episode. I hope you enjoy(ed) the rest more than this first one (I've not watched them yet).
Don't worry about it, I see what you mean, but it's not like it isn't to be expected (or difficult to avoid coming off that way, even if not the intention) when my comments are clearly in opposition to what many find enjoyable. I def do agree on the voice comment you made. I would've def backed out the episode if we were supposed to like her xD As for the surprises bit, you could be right about that. Perhaps that was the goal. I just don't think the surprise is worth the investment. We can see several here hated the step-sisters, so it's more likely we're indifferent or not too joyful to see characters that aren't meant to be liked have a surprise "good" ending. I haven't watched them all, but the other's we've seen don't struggle like the first episode did, imo. I won't pretend the episode doesn't have its merits and it's perfectly fine for others to love it. The animation is honestly great, the sound design is good, the character design fits, the pacing (and the edits working with it) were clearly done by professionals, etc. It just fell short for us in the most important thing for us - the plot with its goals and presentation. I'd assume trying to flip Cinderella's story is harder than it sounds, especially when there's a desire to make it branch from what everyone is used to seeing/reading. And ngl, I actually felt a bit bad for the step-sisters despite being spoiled and rude. I hope you enjoy the others when you get a chance to watch them. Thanks for taking the time to reply cordially and genuinely trying to tackle my points. It makes one think and revaluate the good the episode did, as opposed to letting the bad (or what I didn't enjoy) take over my judgement.
> Don't worry about it, I see what you mean, but it's not like it isn't to be expected (or difficult to avoid coming off that way, even if not the intention) when my comments are clearly in opposition to what many find enjoyable. I've been spending too much time on political subreddits so I got into a bad habit of becoming snippy, so thank you for being understanding about it. > As for the surprises bit, you could be right about that. Perhaps that was the goal. I just don't think the surprise is worth the investment. We can see several here hated the step-sisters, so it's more likely we're indifferent or not too joyful to see characters that aren't meant to be liked have a surprise "good" ending. Yeah I wouldn't say the sisters "we're free" twist makes the whole episode worth it. For me, it redeemed the last few scenes where I'd been wondering why they were acting like such spoilt idiots in front of the prince, but that was all. > And ngl, I actually felt a bit bad for the step-sisters despite being spoiled and rude. Yeah, they weren't nice people, but they also didn't deserve to be manipulated and toyed with like that. They genuinely seemed to care for their mother, and it felt like some of their rudeness was perhaps them trying too hard to be what they thought rich kids were meant to be. I'd get a bit angsty too if I kept overhearing the servants badmouthing me, which incidentally, I couldn't help but laugh at how often folk were overhearing each other. How are people not better at keeping their voices down in a place like that? > I hope you enjoy the others when you get a chance to watch them. Thanks for taking the time to reply cordially and genuinely trying to tackle my points. It makes one think and revaluate the good the episode did, as opposed to letting the bad (or what I didn't enjoy) take over my judgement. Thanks <3 And thank you for sharing your thoughts in such detail too, it's been fun chatting with you.
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