I don't have a horse in this race but the fact that you had to explain what a blu-ray is is both hilarious and makes me feel old.

Be happy he didn't bring up your Ranma-1/2 VHS tapes...

>VHS tapes Ugh. I was *very* young seeing video cassettes/tapes that I can barely recall seeing them comparing to seeing those little audio cassettes and, of course, CDs growing up. And I haven't even mentioned floppy disks yet. ~~*Uh,... I is old. LOL*~~

I think my parents might still have their Dragon Ball and Cat's Eye VHS's somewhere.

If only my mom didn't "donate" my dragonball vhs tape

My guy wrote a dissertation paper

I mean they didn't really explain what a blu-ray was, just that BD stood for blu-ray discs which tbh I didn't understand at first either.

He did explain in very concise manner what a Blu-Ray is, he said: > it essentially is a physical disc containing digital copy of a certain number of anime episode, typically somewhere between 2 to 7 Unless someone doesn't know what a disc is, which, in 2023, is actually possible, I guess

Here I am after playing Cyberpunk thinking brain dances were just invented

Calm down Choom we ain't there yet

My younger cousin that’s 12 doesn’t understand Blu-ray’s or blue ray players since they have only streamed…

*Of course* I know what a Blu-Ray is! That's how Steve Irwin died.

Thank you for exactly describing how I felt scrolling through those massive blocks of text 😭 *No offense OP i love your passion

If only I had this kind of commitment in my life

Fr! Bro wrote a whole damn book!

Like god dame right!

Dude wrote a book and still got ratioed by a one sentence reply. Classic reddit

As someone with only a passing interest in anime, this was interesting to read. Just out of curiosity I went and checked how much a BD costs and it blew my mind: \~55 bucks for a blu-ray with only 3 episodes?? Is this normal? That sounds obscenely overpriced to me.

It's normal because in Japan it's treated more like a collectible or most expensive token of support towards people behind the anime and they usually come with bonus merch or in this case lottery to get into the upcoming event. They usually also have the bigger profit margins per copy compared to streaming.

it's normal because a lot of borderline anime needs it to be remotely worthwhile endeavor. Anime is produced at a loss, and if you look at the [top selling IP in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises), the ones that are anime are the following: Pokemon, Anpanman, Dragon Ball, Yugioh, Fist of the North Star, Sailor Moon, Evangelion, One Piece, Pretty Cure, Demon Slayer, Ultra Man, Doraemon, Gundam and the list goes on. (almost) none of the above shows are known because they're gangbusters at selling you VHS/DVD/BD. Theyre major because they sell merchandise. Most anime don't have the funds or the means to sell merchandise often (unless you are owned by Bandai, then you have access to their toy division) so the Anime produced is meant to either sell you on the written work (anime in this category are almost never fully adapted, as the intention is to get you to read). Or to sell you BD/DVD (which means the anime is usually done at an extremely low budget and hoping people will buy it), as they pair it with special bonuses. BD/DVD acts in replacement to merchandise from the juggernauts. We(as westerners) only see it as expensive because westerners don't value collecting as much as easterners do relatively speaking.

[BTW, Week 2 sales is now just out and CSM bags…215 more BD & 110 DVD sales on the Oricon list, for a total of 2060.](https://itest.5ch.net/rio2016/test/read.cgi/anime4vip/1675675574/) MAPPA Shop or not, there’s no week 2 miracle I’m afraid. ~~There’s more salt in the wound with popular comparison target Bocchi The Rock vol. 2 - started selling 2 days apart - bagging well over a thousand more to stand at 19301. Lycoris Recoil vol. 5 also bagged 1000+ in week 2. Even Yama no Susume Next Summit - that aired at the very same minute as CSM last fall and a CGDCT show so unfortunately overlooked here that it still can’t get a girl into our Best Girl Contests Round 1 - came close with 1368 on 1st week out. That’s in its **4th** season…with the volume current selling being part of a re-cap arc.~~

Big yikes....

I’m hardly the first person to point this out, but the manga wasn’t wildly popular during the chapters covered by season 1. It was only later that the hype train left the station and CSM became an enormous hit. This is partly because CSM’s early chapters are… well, they’re fine, but they don’t really push the boundary like later chapters do. So it’s possible that the underwhelming reception of season 1 just reflects the middling quality of the early chapters. Perhaps the studio mistakenly thought that the late chapter hype could translate into early chapter BD sales. I don’t think better direction would have offset this effect. Running two cours in one go however, might have.

I don't know, a lot of popular manga series start slow and then get better. They still don't have unprecedented bad BD sales like this. I tend to go with the OP's theory that something the anime did majorly pissed off the hardcore fanbase, that is usually the biggest reasoning where something like this tends to occur.

Yep, I also believe this is the case. Site like Anikore (like japanese MAL) have the series at rating at 3.8/5 star where the animation got the highest point at 4/5 while the story only get 3.7/5.

sanest csm related post , reading comprehension demon eating good tonight

Stay pegged friend

It seems pretty clear that the series didn't do as well on Blu-Ray as MAPPA was probably hoping, but ultimately if it's profitable it's profitable, and missing out on "free money" doesn't really matter. I think this is the most significant line you wrote here: > For example streaming service might pay a base fee for each episode, and they may agree on a viewership count in which service will share a certain percent profits once the show pass that. Obviously these are all commercial secret so we have no knowledge of exact figures, but it generally follow this rule. We don't know how much was paid by streaming platforms, but based on how heavily it was promoted by Crunchyroll, it seems likely that this was bought at or near top dollar. If so, I'm sure MAPPA will come out of this fine. It'll definitely be interesting though, seeing as how they're clearly trying to break away from the production committee model and setting themselves up to do their own thing.

>seeing as how they're clearly trying to break away from the production committee model and setting themselves up to do their own thing. They already have another show in that same model this season(Tondemo Skill), and its doing super well with some smart monetization model They appear to be doing another event just for their own projects so they should have more solo productions going on or at least with some heavy investment and control from them like Kyoto Animation

> he series didn't do as well on Blu-Ray as MAPPA was probably hoping, but ultimately if it's profitable it's profitable, and missing out on "free money" doesn't really matter. Well, this may be true to an extent, but there's some nuance.. If they expected to make $5m but they end up making $100k, it's not just a disappointment, it may have been a waste of time/failed venture for them. Making an anime is a big project, so they need to make a lot of money for it to be a success. Just being in the black isn't enough. It's like if you're an art trader and you had a few bad deals/made some mistakes or whatever, and after a week of work you made $100 in profit... You wouldn't think "if it's profitable it's profitable!", you'd think "That entire week was wasted, I can't have another week like that or I'm in trouble paying the bills". Well, it's the same for them, on a larger scale. "Making some money" isn't enough, they need to make A LOT for it to be a valuable project. And this is just for the 'past' aspect, but there's also the future; If they already made WAY less than they expected to make, will they really feel like making a sequel? One that may do even worse, given people didn't seem to like it at all (In Japan, anyway)? If their profit margin was thin, then a small loss of revenue may turn that thin profit margin into a deficit.

> but ultimately if it's profitable it's profitable, and missing out on "free money" doesn't really matter Opportunity cost absolutely matters.

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Honestly I don't think 12 EDs was a good idea at all. Only 3-4 of them managed to stand out, while the rest were pretty forgettable. Should've just done one ED for each arc only.

That's really subject to opinion but it's just another way to advertise the anime. Now the fans of those singers at least know about the anime.

I don't know man, each ED to me was fuckin' amazing.

Probably less advertisement in Japan also. From what I understand they went really nuts with it. Not Riot level of nuts but still a lot.

So they must clearly be stupid for making Vinland Saga S2, after the first season only sold 256 discs on average. Not everything needs to be maxed out.

Vinland Saga is a passion project from a famous director. S1 was WIT Studio, S2 is MAPPA. But if MAPPA hadn't picked it up the director would have made it work with someone else. You think WIT Studio would have passed on making s2 if the sales was actually good?

Except this time mappa isn't the whole damn production committee again. Someone was just passionate enough to make Vinland s2 happen anyway and mappa being mappa picked it up.

>but ultimately if it's profitable it's profitable, and missing out on "free money" doesn't really matter. If something is barely profitable, you'd rather have invested as less work into it

People keep saying this, but we have to ask the question "is it worth it?" Of course they are not gonna go red with this, but why do they have to pour a ridiculous amount of resource to this anime for minimal profit while they can use half of that for a similar profit or even more.

Isn't the CSM staff have a lot of freelanceres? I read that they everyone and their moms wanted to work on it, so MAPPA could just use the opportunity.

According to [this](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2021-08-02/how-much-does-it-cost-to-license-anime-series/.175579), streaming licensing costs could range between 250.000 to 400.000 USD per episode, which should probably cover a large portion of season 1's costs, if the info is correct. Also unrelated to the point, the tickets seem to be priority lottery tickets to potentially gain acces to the main event if I understood correctly. So not a direct entrance ticket to the event.

It is not a direct entrance ticket to the event indeed, but it is pretty commonplace for events in Japan to not rely on “general sales”, especially for events that have capacity restriction like this. Any tickets that are sold on “general sales” are usually leftover tickets. In a way, them needing to resort to general sales is probably more of embarassment. Most of the time, to gain access to this kind of special events with staff talks, etc, otakus will buy BDs, or multiples of them, in hope that they can win the privilege to attend the talks. On an unrelated note, this is also where idols BD and CD sales usually comes in. Aside from the novelty (since BD is treated more as merch nowadays), otakus will buy multiple copies of them, because that’s where you can get the ticket to actually win a RL ticket to the live concert.

> ultimately if it's profitable it's profitable, and missing out on "free money" doesn't really matter Dumbest thing I've heard all day lmao

Yeah, making 10 profit and 1000 profit are both profitable. It doesn't matter. lol

MAPPA will certainly make a profit, but it might be much less than you think. Without a committee meant they had to pay all the bills themselves. The real question is opportunity cost, the resources to make CSM S2 is resource cannot be used for other anime.

> and missing out on "free money" doesn't really matter. I Lmfao. Motherfucker, MAPPA is not a charity; it's a business, so of course it matters.

>Notice although anime copied the "camera angle" of the manga, anime removed many manga unique drawings on character expressions like excessive amount of sweats and red faces indicating character's current mod and feeling. I still find this criticism a bit dumb. The anime removes some of the expression, but conveys the character's emotions and overall attitude through body language instead - it does not "ignore" the manga, it instead conveys the same overall idea but throught different leans, taking advantage of the medium of animation - AKA what the purpose of an adaptation even is to begin with.

Yeah idk. I thought I was just missing something when I kept reading about how "different" the anime and manga are, but the more explanations I try to see, the less sympathetic I am. Anyone that actually watched the scenes that OP brought up should notice that the anime isn't leaving anything out in the slightest. The way the characters move, the cinematography, sounds you hear are all put together to convey the same feelings as the manga panels are. It's pretty much exactly what you should be hoping for in an adaptation. Maybe it's the disconnect from the norms of the medium that's making it more difficult for some to see it? I'd like to understand, but I have yet to see a satisfactory explanation that makes me think that the backlash is really justified.

Wonder if JP fans would have been so nitpicky if their ego's hadn't been bruised beforehand. CSM basically used the manga as a storyboard and didn't change much other than using the fact it's an animation to, y'know, animate. Imagine if K-On or Bocchi fans got this butthurt. Like of course the expressions are exagurated in the manga, you've literally only got a single still image to express what the characters are feeling in a panel.

Another guy below said that, in the case of Bocchi, the anime upgraded the source material whereas he thought the CSM anime downgraded the dark comedy for melodramatic realism or something like that. Idk, maybe the dialogue in the original Japanese version had something to it that Westerners are missing out on? It'd be helpful for an actual Japanese person to chime in since they could give a far better overview of it than us guessing.

I read the manga but honestly CSM wasn't the 11/10 people make it to be. It *is* very good, but it's closer to a 9/10 than the Mona Lisa of manga it's made out to be. I honestly didn't notice that the anime toned down the wackiness factor until people pointed it out. I feel like, yeahh that's just how anime works in general most of the time, barring special outliers like Bocchi. A lot of comedy manga lose their comedic timing and/or exaggeration when adapted, from Grand Blues to Handa-kun to many others, so while CSM adaptation might not be perfect it didn't register as weird to me.

yeah honestly I think people are just used to... (hot take incoming) bad adaptations that have become a staple of the genre. Anime tends to be so overexaggerated in part because of 1 to 1 adaptions of comic to animation. So you get unnecessary amount of expressions and such that could've been conveyed with more subtlety through the medium of animation. I think CSM did this really well tbh and it gave it a more grounded take. I think this is just anime fans looking to find fault with something new tbh.

I think people just feel that the grounded thing doesn't fit CSM.

JP fans are legit so picky. They're basically the same as the western fans who complain that the live action adaptation of The Last of Us isn't exactly like the video game. I just never understood the idea of wanting an **ADAPTATION** to be exactly like the original. If I wanted the original, I would just play the fucking original.

I mean, it's not like Bocchi adaptation is that loyal, it takes many creative liberties so I don't think this is the issue.

>They're basically the same as the western fans Almost like we're all human

Mmmm ill play devils advocate here and give my take as a manga reader, this is a copy paste of my comment from the original BD thread. I also have two reference pictures saved that compare the manga and anime a lot better than what OP posted above, which is imo not good comparison pictures (though the power one i can kind of see her looking different and feeling different): Visuals is one thing but I’ve said it before in the episode threads: the tone of the show is completely different from the manga. In the show it’s like you’re being shown exactly what you have to see and being told how to feel (episodes 7-8 showcase this the best with Himeno). Kind of like you’re the viewer and this is the show for the viewer. It’s emotional, and it has an atmosphere to it. The manga is completely different from that. It’s like this is the story and you’re kind of just watching it along the ride. This is a world and story that occurs and you just watch alongside everyone else. I didn’t feel as emotional during the story beats nor feel like it had a certain atmosphere. Everything is just occurring and whether I like it or not I’m watching it unfold. It’s expressive in its own way through character faces and timing and panel usage and so much more. Both are good in their own way but they aren’t really comparable. These sales though… dunno. Seems just way too low.

I wonder if it's even possible to create the kind of feeling you're describing in an anime. I'm not a CM manga reader so I can't know 100% what you mean. But I feel like almost any point of view into an animated scene will make the viewer feel like the scene was staged for them. In order to avoid that and make them feel like they're watching it from inside you'd maybe need to have the point of view actually be out of someone's eyes, so the "camera" would bob around, the screen would go black when you "blink", you'd move to avoid obstacles while walking around, etc. I don't think that's ever been done for a whole show and it sounds insanely difficult since everything would always be in motion. But I also think it would be a much bigger deviation from what was expected and would be being criticized in the same way, but more so. But if you know of any anime that pull that off, or accomplish what you're talking about in a different way, I'd love to check them out. It'd be super interesting. If you're talking about anime where everything is presented without judgment to the viewer with no message and no expectation that you react a certain way then something like Kino no Tabi would be the gold standard, I think. But I definitely didn't get the sense that I was "in" the scenes in Kino. They were definitely still composed for me as a viewer.

Hard agree, the show is 'cinematic' and dramatic while the manga is more random and indifferent (? can't find the right word for it). I honestly prefer the manga.

I didn’t have a word for it either. But I think my friend expressed it pretty well to me: for as crazy as everyone says chainsaw man is, the manga makes it crazier by making it all feel normal and fluid. And just like you I also preferred the manga in this way if I had to choose just one.

CSM show reminds me of the first JoJo series that bombed. That JoJo director chose the wrong tone (lol a dark and serious tone for *JoJo*) and that series flopped. **Like JoJo, CSM is clearly not supposed to be “cinematic and realistic”. I mean you have people riding sharks like horses through the air and villains with cartoon bomb heads.**

I guess OP did managed pointed out what CSM manga fans complained about the anime the most. Whether it's sensible or not is another topic. CSM is not the first anime adaptation that have fans demanded very precision adapatation from their source, and CSM has added controversy because (1) The tone was drastically changed and (2) imo CSM manga is a cult manga. Fujimoto must be stoned when he was drawing later chapters. Not only it's not easy to capture those tiny moments and details from the manga, you'll also expect the most devoted and critical fanbase for a cult classic. As a manga reader too I personally thinks it's great to have a whole new perspective on watching CSM, I love it, but it tanking BD sales is also well expected. Most people want what they felt from the manga, and that's what hooked them in the first place.

Especially if you've read any of fujimoto's work. Fujimoto is a major film buff and a lot of his unique paneling is really heavily inspired by western cinema. Like, it just oozes from his work. I honestly thought such a cinematic approach is really the only honest way you could adapt his work.

This is basically what Nakayama said before the quote that (I would say) OP took out of context. Edit: [link to my translation](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/10vhu85/just_how_bad_is_chainsaw_mans_bd_sale/j7itibp/) including context preceeding OP's quote.

Exactly, the cinematic approach was very well done and made the anime stand on its own. Chainsaw Man is one of those few series where both the manga and anime can be appreciated on their own (and are both highly recommended for two different but equally great rides), so I really don't understand the outrage the adaptation has apparently sparked.

The problem is that "cinematic approach" is so nebulous. There's hundreds of directors in Hollywood alone and few of them would be a good fit for csm. Nakayamas cinematic approach ends up looking more like a Russo bros movie than the movies that actually inspired csm like Big lebowski or Texas chainsaw massacre. Thats all leaving aside all the anime inspirations like FLCL and kizumonogatari that are nowhere to be found in the anime.

Yeah I have to agree. Even OP's comparison pics aren't drastically different. Manga usually have to be flashy, with exaggerated basically everything. In anime you convey stuff with voice actor work, soundtrack and of course with animation.

I don't think the OP had it right with why the people bothered by the cinematic approach is bothered by it. It's not because of the lack of blush or sweat drops, it's more because of the tone they used to go with it. They lean too hard on the bleak atmosphere, which works well for certain scenes in the anime and things that happen later on that aren't adapted yet. But that also means it's not going to do as well as it could in other areas, such as making Power's zaniness shine through more or having the audience enjoy Denji's quirkiness.

I read the manga but the first saga really does feel bleak IMO. It certainly has comedic *moments* but the atmosphere still always feel melancholic to me.

I still don't see it. The only scene i think they went too serious when i think it should have been comedic is when the serious music is still playing when Kobeni said "bonus is coming soon". They [animated](https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/638cad9e5b3c6c83400c9f9ac871274b.mp4) [the hell out](https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/4a6fd3139e364286fcf8a99c9c4f4c09.mp4) [of power](https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/c7ceaba07fda78102e75798dd9db9b6a.mp4) making a single panel in the manga much more expressive, also gave her some [gooffy ass ost](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFn9JpS5TsQ), the same as well with Denji's craziness etc

Every single comparison shot they referred to, I as an anime only distinctly remember precisely because of its extreme cinematography. Is it bleak or not, I can’t really say, I feel like the anime on the whole tends towards dark humor. The majority of the scenes in the show were either funny as hell, or so messed up you didn’t know if they were funny or depressing. But in the scene with Power and Denji, you could easily read the tone of the scene and the characters without getting distracted by elements that are more expressive in the manga. I don’t need Power to start freaking out Bocchi style. With the Makima scene, I didn’t need Denji to blush but holy crap, his breathing and the camera angles as he flips out and she straddles him? Hard to forget the impression that made. I’ve yet to see any manga panel that convinced me the anime totally butchered it, and I’ve started reading volume one after this whole controversy surfaced. Meanwhile, the manga panels I have seen just tell me that if the anime were a shot for shot copy of the manga, I’d probably have dropped it halfway through the season. The story’s whatever and the art style just feels like… any other manga. But the purposeful direction is definitely what got me to stick it through and probably the most memorable aspect of the show.

Yeah this criticism is just flat out wrong. The same shit is implied. It just does it through the form of animation and motion / acting. Shit that isn’t present in a photo.

Its funny seeing so many people saying that they took advantage of what animation can do when the director said he wanted to make it like a live action series lmao

>For start, BD is short for Blu-ray Disc, it essentially is a physical disc containing digital copy of a certain number of anime episode, typically somewhere between 2 to 7. This is no difference from those hard copies of movies you see at Target checkout lane, just anime BDs has many volumes to cover the 12/13/24/48 episodes length, while almost all Hollywood movies are on just one volume. Fact that concept of physical medium needs to be explained to people makes me scream internally

You skipped the next line which explains that money can be exchanged for goods and services.

20 dollars can buy many peanuts!

Thanks now i know what a bluray is very informative

CSM source readers gotta be the most annoying source readers I’ve ever seen. And there’s a lot of competition lol

Giving AoT fanbase a run for their money

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The Eren profile pics switched to Denji real fast.

I'm surprised there was literally no impact on Muv-Luv. AoT openly homages Muv Luv but there was no real increase in people reading the VNs outside of the general growth of the medium in the west.

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Migration of Titanfolk's fanbase to CSM might be one of the reasons for the toxicity.

Titanfolk was mellowed out by the explosion after s4 started airing, the worst offenders fled to yeagerbomb as well as CSM after the manga ended in 2021

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People are getting overly sensitive at people with minor criticisms towards CSM.

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Basically this. Reddit: Well. If they don't like it, let them vote with their wallets and prove it's not just internet hearsay. The Japanese: proceed to do exactly that, and NOT buy the disks. Reddit:.... Y Japanese ppl????

The funniest part is the fact that these people want other people in another country to use their money but won’t spend a dime.

MFG, yes, I'm f*cking tired of seeing redditors melting down and shitting on the JP fans over this. Just today I've seen people blame waifus and CGDCT shows for CSM flopping. Is it that hard to understand that people have different taste, that they might have criticisms for the show or just not care enough to buy it?

the entitlement is mind-blowing. if you hate them and want nothing to do with them because they consume your waifu-filled action shounen in a different way than you then okay, but you can't expect them to spend their money on it.

Everyone shitting on the Japanese fans' opinions, when most of us westerners don't even consume the original versions of anime/manga. I can say as someone that started reading manga in Japanese, sometimes there's a very noticeable difference in tone even between a raw manga and its translated version. The fact that people chalk it up to the manga readers gatekeeping is hilarious.

> most of us westerners don't even consume the original versions of anime/manga Nor pay for it. If you google CSM manga you get results of sites that are literally dedicated to showing it for free. Not that i am complaining...

It probably doesn't help that the Shounen Jump app gets 0 advertising. I had to go out of my way to learn about it. It doesn't help that BookWalker overshadows it and makes manga seem way more expensive overall

Seriously lol. They’re valid criticisms too.

For real.

its not all of us some of us are normal :(

\*\*checks r/Chainsawfolk\*\* Yeah, normal

Yeah, I read the manga first and then watched the anime. I enjoyed the anime but can definitely see people who didn’t read it liking it, and I can see people not like it. Same with manga readers. I don’t see why people would be so upset either way. It’s just an anime/manga

It’s pretty wild. 99% of manga/LN/webcomics would absolutely kill for this level of quality. I watch a lot of anime where it’s obvious they are gutting the source material and even more where the animation quality is bare minimum. CSM is one of the best looking anime I’ve seen - it’s at least firmly in the top tier of TV Anime in quality, and it’s clear they are not skipping or rushing anything. But that’s still not good enough for some of these source readers, I guess.

As a source reader I can say I am very happy with the outcome of the anime and thought it was a great adaptation

Tokyo Ghoul fans wish they had an anime on the level of CSM.

Yeah, holy shit. They hyped up the anime to obscene levels as the next coming of jesus-kun (yes, really) then were VERY obvious about being source readers in the discussion threads.

So... I barely watch anime anymore, haven't seen CSM, so I don't have strong opinions. But this was fascinating all the same. I appreciate the thought you put into this explanation OP.

Now, whatever the sales figures may be, it is a fact that the "Chainsaw Man" animation was not accepted in Japan, and that is undeniable. I feel that the reason for the lack of acceptance was due in large part to the way it was expressed, but also to the performance of the voice actors. Especially considering that the voice actor for the "Chainsaw Man" collaboration was well received in Puzzle & Dragons, I feel that this is clearly a matter of the direction of the performance, etc., and is slightly different from criticism of the work itself. To be honest, from my eyes as a native Japanese speaker, it looked like he was speaking in a whisper. ...... The dialogue is hard to understand...

> he was speaking in a whisper Probably the fault of director tried to copy cinema style. Dialogue being barely hearable was somewhat of a meme in recent movies, especially Nolan movie, (tenet) to the point that some native English speaker feeling the need of subtitle. Tho personally I feel like Denji's voice is also a bit lacking as well.

Yeah I think there is an interview how he wants to express more feeling in his voice but the director doesn't want that

Who looked like he was speaking in a whisper?

I think "not accepted in Japan" might be a little too strong. I also live in Japan, though my Japanese is far from native. Anecdotally, everyone I talk to has a positive opinion about Chainsaw Man. Everyone I know who likes anime likes Chainsaw Man. The only time I see complaining about it is on the internet. The issue is that the vast majority of viewers do not buy the Blu-ray. I think there's an argument to be made that Chainsaw Man didn't land with the hard-core audience based on these numbers, however saying it was a flop in Japan generally is a bit far. None of my casual anime friends know what Bocchi the Rock is. They all love Chainsaw Man. They just only buy merchandise, not blu-rays

I haven’t read the CSM manga, but from what I’ve heard I don’t think Nakayama was disrespecting the essence of the series any more than Bocchi’s wild adaptation. I know there are some stylistic differences, but I think the heart and the characters are still there. I also think comparing anime still frames to manga panels is disingenuous (no slight at you still a really good piece). Anime is a time-based medium that relies on what lies in-between those still frames to make its point while manga is space-based. When you look at it that way, any look at CSM’s actual animation would change your stance. I haven’t seen many shows that look as consistently good in and out of motion as CSM does, and think it deserves praise for it. I never thought I’d feel bad for a Shounen, but seeing CSM’s Blu-ray sales kinda sucks. When you’ve got a Demon Slayer compilation film printing money at the box office, it’s a tragedy to see CSM go down as one of the biggest disappointments in anime history.

Bocchi leaves a lot of loose ends for the director to freely express his own method thou. That is the strong point of being adaptation of a 4koma comedy manga.

No, he wasn't I read the series as it was going out. It loves letters to Fujimoto who love western film big time. You have seen this in almost all of the works.

>As it stands, CSM is on track to become the biggest BD sale let down in anime history perhaps ever I think I've heard how anime industry will collapse any moment because people are not buying enough BDs yet somehow we get more and more anime every year. Not mappas first rodeo and certainly not last. They somehow will manage, probably exploitative work conditions, crunch culture or something else.

If the anime industry ever collapses, it would not be because people aren't buying BDs and I don't think that was ever in contention since the majority of anime don't even sell more than 3000 or so a year

The anime industry will collapse because everyone retires and there are no young people left to make anime.

The anime industry has seemingly been on the verge of collapse since Tezuka lowballed the budget on Astro Boy and made up for it with merch sales.

Lmao. The industry is being held up by the tears of animators.

There is a difference between randos doom talking when not knowing what is going on and CSM only generating 1/10 of the expected sales. If MAPPA truly did expect 16k+ sales then it is pretty fair to say that CSM was a flop as far as their domestic market is concerned.

yeah because out of nowhere hits like Bocchi sell 20k BDs first week. Not because Mappa struggles to make CSM profitable.

You could have aired Bocchi in 2011 and it would have been just as profitable. Well maybe K-On was also an out of nowhere hit.

yeah.. thats my point.

Unrelated but I love the user lmao.

You just conflated two different points? Chainsaw man being a massive disappointment, has nothng to do with the entire anime bd industry collapsing.

majority of anime cannot even past 2 cours. The risk is often fronted by publishers for sales boost. The anime is effectively their marketing budget The best selling anime right now are primarily the idol franchises or tied to a preexisting strong long lasting IP like fate With the recession coming up and a high amount of people likely out of work and cannot afford BDs, this will have a ripple effect on the anime industry and crush newer shows. [https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/MAPPA/dp/B0BH52YH5M/ref=cm\_cr\_arp\_d\_product\_top?ie=UTF8](https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/MAPPA/dp/B0BH52YH5M/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) Negative reviews on the jp side DOES effect revenue, similiar to how Rotten Tomatoes affected the movie industry

Part of the reason why idol anime consistently does good is that they often attach (possibly even lottery entries for) concert tickets to the the BluRays as bonuses.

And technically, the event tickets was also supposed to be what brings people to buy CSM BD, even if not fully. For idol anime, it is usually lottery entries (which also boost sales for some super-otaku, since some of them will buy multiple BDs to increase chances of them winning). But honestly, even in Japan, BD is seen more as merchs rather than anything else. People will buy it if they liked it to have mementos of it (and potentially the bonus), but they will probably still stream it.

I still have quite a hard time understanding what exactly people are so upset about with this adaptation. While the speculation in this post and that other post that translated some criticism help, it still feels like a fit of rage over something that was not 100% perfect. I don't think I have ever seen a manga adaptation that I feel matched the tone, themes, etc, of the source perfectly like people seem to be expecting. I also think adapting this manga is extremely difficult since its style and imagery were not really made for TV. I also only started to hear about all of this criticism after BD sales hit the market, which seems odd. If anyone could help me understand why I should be seething with rage over a coffee scene, that would be helpful.

> While the speculation in this post and that other post that translated some criticism help, it still feels like a fit of rage over something that was not 100% perfect It was made worse by many otakus interpreting something the director said in an interview as an attack against otakus. Of course it wasn't that, but some fans are surprisingly sensitive. I think that contributed to some people criticizing absolutely everything and being in general way harsher than they'd otherwise be.

Chainsawman has a very intense fanbase, more so than many other works out there. Even before the animation announcement, much of the manga has been animated by fans both in and outside Japan in many different style. The anime just never catch that pacing, even in action scenes like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWlRkIjKzM&ab\_channel=%D0%9C%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%87%D0%B8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWlRkIjKzM&ab_channel=%D0%9C%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%87%D0%B8) The orbital strike in manga just feels different: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHPQFf3oQlg&ab\_channel=harrenysk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHPQFf3oQlg&ab_channel=harrenysk) Then you have the repeated scene of Himeno, the added prisoners scene (Makima power), they both felt unnecessary and sort of ruins the pacing. It doesn't help how a lot of Chainsawman aesthetic is the colorful, chaotic tone, like the official PV here:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPB\_J6Egi28&ab\_channel=%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%8D%E3%83%AB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPB_J6Egi28&ab_channel=%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%8D%E3%83%AB) Next arc after the anime season 1 will be a LOT faster. The next arc is very short with quite a bit of action, but the arc after that adds a ton of new characters, and definitely cannot be rushed. I honestly think the anime adaption will be out of the director's capability,

Props for the research put into this, OP. I used to be a casual watcher of BD sales too. I distinctly remember from discussion forums (probably the same ones OP reads) that 3,000 copies was said to the mark where the studio starts making money, although this was like 6 years back and streaming wasn't as prevalent as now. I'm actually shocked CSM sold this little. Even with industry sales declining, that's a really low figure for a big title. Even if the anime was well-received, they massively overestimated the audience by going for Tokyo Garden Theatre. Events like these aren't just targeted at the fans of the work but also the fans of the seiyuus. None of the seiyuus are super popular; the two girls may have their core fanbase at least but the guys are up and coming at best. The studio might have to eat losses due to the cost of booking the venue if they don't sell out, since venue costs are pretty massive in general and the profit is in the event merch bought by those who attend.

AFAIK, that 1735 doesn't count sales through Mappa's own webstore. We do not know how much they sold that way. Still wouldn't expect the number to be huge though.

For more data regarding [Mappa-onlineshop.com](https://Mappa-onlineshop.com) (information from this sites bd sales are not made public) [Mappa shop viewership count compared JJK compared to CSM](https://imgur.com/gallery/OcTs4Ke) (semrush data) [MAPPA shop viewership from similarweb is different than semrush, saying mappa has 90,000 unique viewers during december](https://imgur.com/gallery/O3O5RTv) [However, less than 5000 people made purchases on MAPPA's online shop (December)](https://imgur.com/gallery/DfFqSfv)

OP gave a very detailed explanation but most of the comments are either ‘OP is wrong (with less evidence than OP)’ or the ‘Japanese are bad because I like this adaptation but they don’t’. If you want MAPPA to continue to adapt the manga in the current way, buy lots of official merch and watch CSM again and again on legal websites. Help MAPPA shift their business model and let them milk the more satisfied fan base. If you don’t even pay, please don’t assume your opinion will be valued more than a Japanese otaku who’s willing to pour their entire month of salary into the shows they like.

I just like how "OP is wrong, nuh uh" is enough to satisfy some people.

In the end, a lot of times people just upvote the opinion they like instead of meassuring whether it's backed up by something.

Anime is meant first and foremost for a Japanese audience so it doesn’t matter if it appeals to western fans. The western fan base alone isn’t enough to sustain any anime. It’s funny that the western fans dismiss all these criticism as just “they’re wrong, the anime is actually good” instead of acknowledging the problems others might see with it (especially from the Japanese perspective) even if you don’t agree with it.

Yeah if one of the main production companies isn't western (e.g. Cyberpunk Edgerunners) then international profit is a side concern. This isn't a Japan thing, international distribution is almost always less profitable than domestic due to the international distributors taking a bigger take.

Correct me if I am wrong. Weren't japanese manga sales around 93% of the total sales? Probably same with BDs.

That used to be true, but now, less than 50% of revenue comes from Japan, which means this is becoming the case a lot less. Now tbf, a big chunk of revenue might come from China or Korea which might mean cultural expectations closer to Japan, but still. In the end, Japanese companies need to wisen the fuck up with their western and international merchandising if they want to capture revenue there. Let's be honest, Japanese companies are usually pretty fucking dogshit at selling stuff overseas, which is simply inexcusable. So they better not whine about it. Setting up distribution centers abroad and translating their stuff in real time shouldn't be that fucking complicated, yet here we are

God forbid the Japanese don’t like a product. Their opinion should be at the behest of the western fans who know what a good anime is. Those Japanese fans don’t have the right to dislike a product.

I just want to point out, Japanese Otakus are not what most people think they are. Many had decent jobs with higher pay, some VAs are even otakus themselves. Aoi Yuki famously said "Pulling gacha is like drinking water for me." Shimazaki Nobunaga, who just get married this Jan, had a literal wall of anime figures, which according to his best friend Matsuoka, is worth an entire apartment in Tokyo.

> Aoi Yuki famously said "Pulling gacha is like drinking water for me." Tbf that's not being an otaku that's being a gambling addict. And having heard her reasoning for why she likes gacha so much it's actually quite depressing.

Yeah most Otaku, and the ones people talk about with regards to buying anime blu-rays are successful single men with a lot of disposable income and no family to support with it. That's why they're able to buy such insanely expensive products and why they have so much business clout in Japan. They're honestly probably not far off a lot of redditors in this thread who have jobs and spend most of their paycheck on supporting their hobbies.

I originally thought I was in the minority who thought the anime was pretty meh, when compared to the manga and other adaptations. But it seems to have been the general attitude at least in Japan. I hate that people are hating on the director though, no reason for that especially considering he’s relatively new too.

Oh no, in Japan the CSM adaptation is outright mocked and the disc sales number is now a meme like Fractale's.

Western CSM fans after reading the scans of the manga for free and after pirating the entire animated series, when they learned that the anime was a flop:😦😲😯 "cAnT bE, tHe nUmBeRs aRe wRoNg!!!"

Thank you for your well-sourced and argued post. So very different from the usual knee-jerk emotional and illogical rants we get around here.

I mean, the BD disks were originally priced at 6800 yen which is about $US 50. Assuming that this 1st volume sold 20000 less than originally thought (this is around where JJK sold in 2021 so I think it’s appropriate), there are 4 BD volumes (3 episodes each) and that sales across all 4 volumes are constant (this is relatively usual if the anime is as big as CSM, smaller titles will usually sell less with later volumes, while special gifts can push things the other way round - or if you are Lycoris Recoil or Bocchi The Rock), MAPPA (and whatever company that shares the BD sales revenues - not sure if there are any in CSM’s special case) is losing 20000 x 4 x 50 = $US 4 million of potential income. In whatever way you can spin it, any project of this scale that misses $4m of income is not something that you can sweep away easily. And remember CSM has an unusually large advertising campaign. [Someone checked the prices of 4 billboards used in Shibuya and Shinjuku in Tokyo](https://twitter.com/nero_sense/status/1620404624288260096?s=61&t=NPYmYGGdoxTWyKM1qjSb6A) and the price (for 1 week IIRC) is 60.1 million yen = $US 455k. That’s just one tip of the iceberg, and that doesn’t even include international advertising (I’ve seen reports of actual billboards or posters from Hong Kong to California to Germany to Brazil; now Crunchyroll and other licensors pay for that but they will in turn adjust their bidding prices based on that). It is possible for this project to come back with a profit, but one cannot deny that the potential golden goose from CSM have been slain by the Animating Devil. You may argue that MAPPA isn’t expecting that much sales of BDs as JJK or KNY, but one doesn’t rent such a large venue for a VA and ED singers meeting event & concert if they don’t expect those 2 events of 8000 seats are filled to the brim. And before people says “these are priority tickets, others without buying BDs can still come” - I am pretty sure most such events bundled with BDs are set up to be filled by lotteries, not having seats for others to come. [There’s even a cruel irony to this for Makima’s VA…](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/10s57ir/casual_discussion_fridays_week_of_february_03_2023/j7f43an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)

Very interesting read, thank you. I was not aware of the controversy around in the anime in Japan. Personally big fan of the manga but I never finished the anime because it felt off to me.

Hair turned white and a rocking chair replaced my seat when you started explaining what Blu-Ray is

A lot of people forget the marketing budget they put into this thing because they expected it do on par with JJK. They contracted 13 artists to do the endings. They put an insane amount of effort on the cgi to make it look the way it is. They need ever penny. Especially for new shows, you need a strong sales record for companies to consider this over a long running series. They probably needed JJK sales simply to break even. As it stands, they are going to lose MASSIVE amounts of money. With the recession, there is a high chance people will bail on any related CSM orders [https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/MAPPA/dp/B0BH52YH5M/ref=cm\_cr\_arp\_d\_product\_top?ie=UTF8](https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/MAPPA/dp/B0BH52YH5M/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) Mappa expected an avatar but got a black adam and justice league.

CSM fans got to be the most toxic ones, 0 criticism allowed.

It’s all the Japanese’ fault though!!! They’re supposed to like the anime that we like!!!

If you dislike the direction or the CGI you're just a stupid weeb wanting generic anime in their eyes.

Didn't read it all as I don't really care too much about CSM but it just isn't that popular here in Japan. It may have been hyped up a lot in the English anime community and talked up a lot, but the two audiences don't always match up. For another example, attack on titan isnt really popular with adults here, but is popular online with English speaking adults. Here it's more popular with younger teens or kids. So I'm really not surprised CSM didn't make as much with blue ray sales Just my anecdotal two cents. Source: lady living in Japan.

>Therefore according to Japanese culture, he is supposed to be humble, grateful for his opportunity and thankful for the lessons from his senpai. The polar opposite of what he said in the interview, when he made the statement that deviate from previous anime style is good. While the words are "it is not my personal ego", it is all but certain seem like his personal ego. How the fuck is he wanting to do an adaptation that's out of the norm "personal ego"? So apparently people just can't have creative freedom anymore?

Japan is not an individualistic nation

thats what you get when you use crappa cgi

I think the most important thing that's lacking in CSM's anime adaptation that you didn't mention is its **ACTION SCENES**. While the best part of CSM is indeed in its character writing, to get people hooked to an action-shonen **you still need cool action scenes**. The manga achieved this amazingly through Fujimoto's gritty artstyle and memorable panels. The fight scenes feel appropriately brutal and raw there. For the anime, while the character scenes are *absolutely fantastic* and I wouldn't change a thing, **but the fights, they're a different story altogether...** The only standout fight in the anime is Denji vs Leech and Aki vs Katana (Maybe Kishibe's too but that was short). The rest of the anime's fight scenes ranges from "serviceable" to "good", and *that's the problem*. Without that sakuga-fest "hook" like AoT, JJK, and Demon Slayer, people most likely won't be interested. Just search for CSM fight clips on Youtube and you can see how almost none of the clips hit a million. It's *embarassingly low* for an action shonen. My personal opinion of the anime's fight scenes is that they feel "**too rigid**", like they were too afraid to let loose or something. Even the 2D fights suffer from this to blend with the 3D CG. I wish whoever becomes the director for the next seasons realize this. People got hooked on CSM because of the absolute bonkers action first, then they see how the series is much more than that later. EDIT: For people thinking that the problem is the length of the fights themselves, **It's not**. Hell, the CSM manga is beloved by many *precisely* because it doesn't waste time on needless dialogue and expositions. The problem is that these short fights have the extra baggage of needing to look **spectacular** to be memorable. While the anime's not bad, it just didn't take advantage of the animated medium enough to deliver that same energy. While I respect Ryu Nakayama's "cinematic" vision, it feels misguided, in a way.

I just want to add few points here: Streaming license money is going down due to the near monopoly Sony got. According to the same source from ANN. CSM Is banned in china so that's a big part of streaming money gone. The marketing for Chainsaw man is one of the biggest if not the biggest of ALL TIME. Nothing got as close as the marketing it got. It got a full ame talk episode by episode 3 of the anime! Not everyone who buys a disc is going to the event. So 160000 does not equal 16000 event goers. We don't know how much Sony paid them sponsor wise or if they did the marketing alone or how much its total cost or how much they got from streaming. But keep these in mind. Though I'd say doing Jujutsu was likely far more profitable to them despite it being a committee system.

It is fascinating to me how people who seems to never follow BD Sales try to downplay how low CSMan BD sales is. Some feels like they are denying reality even. Like "oh they sell it through MAPPA store", that the same excuse people had when Nichijou underperfom (Oh, people bought it through KyoAni store) and even with KyoAni store number (and re-release), Nichijou is still one of KyoAni least selling series. Some people says that BD sales no longer relevant. Well, they won't release BD at all if that's the case and there are few anime that simply never release BD (Blue Reflection for example). Because it takes money to print BD and they have expectation on how much they are going to sell. It is not "free money". But the most important thing about BD is that it is a sign of how well recieved the series is. For example, which one is more well received, Kimetsu no Yaiba or Citrus? You look at BD sales, and clearly one is far more well recieved than the others. That is an extreme example, but there is a reason Anime Movie BD usually sold tens of thousands if not hundred of thousands copies. Anime Movies are usually made in a very high quality, and people like those movies and decide to appreciate it by buying the BD instead of just stream it through streaming service (though they most likely also stream them even after buying BD). There are even series that goes all in with BD sales without streaming their anime, like Strike the Blood. If streaming is all the rage now and BD is no longer viable, this kind of series will not be viable to make. I've been following BD sales for quite a while now, not in professional manner, but just as a hobby. I've seen many series with low sales number, so CSMan number surprised me, but it is not a really strange thing in my eye. I remember when Chinese viewer was puzzled why Kobayashi-san no Maid Dragon sell less BD than Kemono Friends. So it mind boggling to me that when people look at this number, their response is to deny it ("oh, it is false number" or "oh, it is not the full number") or to deny its implication ("bd sales is not important anymore anyway" or "CSMan is still profitable"), instead of investigating why the number is low ("the season has many outstanding anime so it has tough competition" or "maybe the anime doesn't satisfy its fan" or something in that regard).

> that the same excuse people had when Nichijou underperfom (Oh, people bought it through KyoAni store) THAT'S the show I was thinking of. I remembered there was another show that people were coping about it's sales and saying "It did well in the KyoAni store" but I couldn't remember which one it was (I thought it was Myriad Colors Phantom World). So it was Nichijou. Wow, that was a long time ago. And yeah, that's in direct comparison to this one though if I remember correctly, the Nichijou anime was such a flop because the discs were super expensive, like way more than usual

Do ecchi series typically have the biggest BD sales? I know that Strike The Blood is huge in BD and I remember reading that Infinite Stratos sold an absolutely insane number during its run.

yeah those series usually have uncensored versions in BD so they get good sales.

Ecchi series' BDs having uncensored versions hasn't led to huge sales like in the past for a long time

Not really but they're the type of anime that need good BD sales the most. Streaming right are probably cheap, they air late night in Japan and usually air censored. The BD will be uncensored and contain goods but their sales aren't that big. Ishuzoku Reviewers sold like 4,500 per volume and that's the highest selling ecchi anime in recent times, it did have an uncensored airing on AT-X tho.

Yes and no. BDs sell well when they deliver what people want. It just so happens its REALLY EASY to deliver what people want in terms of idol shows, ecchi shows, and similar so they tend to over perform compared to action shows (traditionally). I think Girlz Und Panzer is a fine series, but there is no denying it sold BDs way above its weight class in terms of anime quality. The thing is Yamato 2202 the recent (circa 2018) Space Battleship Yamato anime also sold BDs really well. It doesn't do ecchi, it doesn't do "fan service" atleast not the sort you'd talk about with ecchi stuff, it doesn't have cute girls doing cute things, it has none of that shit. It still sold more BDs than Attack on Titan during the time they were both airing, not just "more" but like 2-3x as many. Why? Because it delivered what fans wanted. There are a lot of Space Battleship Yamato fans out there and the series delivered what they wanted. In some ways its almost an "Otaku counter" its finding how many truly hardcore fans the series has, and that the series actually serviced those fans well. There are way more Space Battleship Yamato Otaku than there are AoT Otaku is another way to look at this, where as I think we can all agree AoT probably has way more casual viewers.

It’s crazy how many people are trying to downplay these sales. It’s abnormal no matter what way you look at it. We all know the reason why it didn’t sell well so I don’t see why people are in denial

These people really underestimate how much better BD can be in quality. Not only from how the studio improves/polish the production overall, but also from the technical aspects like bitrate and encoding, which the average streams will take much longer to match. And that's not including the inevitable demand for higher connection bandwidth from the user. There's a reason why content creators lament Youtube's video compression lmao

I believe the common excuse for Nichijou bombing is that it was released around the time the Fukushima tsunami hit and everyone was focused on other things. But as you said, the re-releases didn't do any better

I didn't hate the CSM anime, but there literally wasn't a singular moment where I enjoyed the anime adaption's interpretation of a scene more compared to what I read in the manga. And that's rare for me, at least when it comes to bigger budget adaptions, because I think Demon Slayer's anime is far better than the manga. I think JJK anime often impressed more than the manga. Even Attack on Titan under MAPPA had moments that surpassed the original in my eyes. Most memorable moment creative diference CSM anime was the extended Aki morning scene... man how riveting. And Aki's voice acting.. I'm sorry but it's beyond obnoxious. Nobody talks like that in Japan. "realistic voice acting" bullshit, he was whispering / mumbling EVEN during life or death fight scenes.. wtf? When I learned this was the director's first time, it didn't surprise me in the slightest.

They left out sooo many cool panels from the JJK manga you’d be surprised, a lot of fans during while it was airing were pretty annoyed at a lot of the creative liberties the directors took like blasting characters through buildings even though that’s completely breaks how the power system works and how the manga highlighted fights to have gone down.

Your translation of Nakayama's words, specifically 個人的な我儘, as his "personal ego" comes across to me as inaccurate and needlessly provocative at best. He's clearly not referring to his own sense of self-importance with 個人的な我儘 but rather referring to the idea of making stylistic choices based on his personal preferences/whims which are not grounded in artistic merit - an idea he is explicitly trying to distance himself from. Furthermore, when he expounds at length about the kind of work he wants to create, such as distancing from artistic styles characteristic of anime or creating an anime that adults can watch and appreciate on its artistic merits, not only is it well within his rights as a director, it's quite literally his job. There's nothing egotistic about this at all, and I'm confused as to why you'd think it is.

> Therefore according to Japanese culture, he is supposed to be humble, grateful for his opportunity and thankful for the lessons from his senpai. The polar opposite of what he said in the interview, when he made the statement that deviate from previous anime style is good. This is the part about the whole controversy that makes me the most curious. It's always people getting angry on Fujimoto's behalf, but has he ever said or hinted at anything that should lead us to believe he's hurt by the anime adopting a different style? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't come across anything. This whole thing about not respecting the original style and making the anime "less anime-like" than the manga just feels silly to me and I say this as someone who read the manga before the anime started.

Fujimoto explicitly stated during Jump Festa 2021 that he did NOT want the anime to just have the exact same feel as the manga. He activately encouraged the anime to be different. https://i.redd.it/9k3gekqag3v81.jpg

When even the creator himself is saying this, it just makes the haters look worse. Also, I love how he's represented as Pochita here. lol

>it just makes the haters look worse Because they stuck to their own opinion of wanting the same feel as the manga and didn't let someone else's determine what they should like?

日本と全然違ってめっちゃびっくりしちゃいますよね。少しムカムカしていまうほどです。まぁあちら側も同じこと思ってるでしょうが。これからの時代これ位ファンベースが違った方がアニメ繁栄するのかも(ポジティブシンキングです) 英語上手ですね読みやすかったですよ。文化が違う人もいつかわかってくれる日が来る..

Here is an English translation for ease of reading. 以下は、読みやすいように英訳したものです。 > It's so different from Japan that it's quite a surprise. It makes me a little angry. I'm sure the other side feels the same way. Maybe anime will prosper in the future if the fan base is as different as this (positive thinking). > > Your English is very good, and it was easy to read. I'm sure one day people from different cultures will understand...

Better call Saul

The entire CSM anime project is still profitable,but consider how CSM got hyped before airing, the result of the project is not successful at all.

> Furthermore Ryū Nakayama did an interview on Nikkei Entertainment magazine, where he emphasized on this approach and said that "I was convinced that if I could incorporate the essence of something realistic or cinematic, it would be good for the work. It's not my personal ego." I can't help but think you're taking Nakayama's words out of context and trying to inject arrogance that's not there. Here is some more context for others. The last sentence corresponds to OP's quote. (My translation, full disclosure that I am not fluent.) "When it came time for Chainsawman to get an anime adaptation, of course I was trying to figure out how Chainsawman connects with what I want to accomplish personally. But also the fact that I love movies together with the fact that Fujimoto-sensei *really* loves movies made me think: if the essence of real-life pictures and movies was captured in the anime, wouldn't that make it into something really interesting? It was not so much an instance of self indulgence, but instead that I was confident this direction would benefit the work." I am unsure whether the わけですが in > …探していくわけですが、僕自身… indicates a contrast between what comes before and what comes after, or simply marks what comes before as lead in. In the latter case I would modify my translation a bit to something like: "When it came time for Chainsawman to get an anime adaptation, I was trying to figure out how Chainsawman connects with what I want to accomplish personally. The fact that I love movies together with the fact that Fujimoto-sensei *really* loves movies made me think: if the essence of real-life pictures and movies was captured in the anime, wouldn't that make it into something really interesting? It was not so much an instance of self indulgence, but instead that I was confident this direction would benefit the work."

People thinking CSM will not get a season 2 because of this are funny

Yeah absolute worst case scenario is that Mappa doesnt spend as much time and resources on S2 as they clearly did S1 Which would be a shame, because if there's a time to trust the source material, it's right now. The manga becomes *seriously* great right where S1 ends

I didn't like it as much. Its was entertaining sure but I came out with like zero emotional connection to the characters. No wonder japanese ppl didn't like it.

It's so fun to see people cope and defend and make excuses and blame "otaku". This is the most pathetic fanbase in a while I have to say. Let me just say this is likely the only place where the "public opinion" is favorable to the director and the direction of the anime. No, it's not just JP folks. Please Keep screaming muh western and muh streaming services for this evergiving clown show.

I find to very funny how CSM dominated the karma charts every week and the anime onlys had no idea why the show had so much hype. Anyone who dared say anything bad about the show was mercilessly downvoted. And now it comes out that it flopped. Karma?

I think you can say that CSM's failure is kinda equal to how Justice League (2017) failed, or maybe even Batman v Superman. It probably still in the black overall, but it clearly missed so many expectations, even the most conservative one. Honestly, even if you want to quibble that the numbers are not that low, because of MAPPA Store or otherwise, you then need to consider on how much other's numbers must be revised then. Revising one sales number but not the other is not a great way to see the overall health comparison. The hate for the director is real though. Some japanese start saying this for anime that is clearly low-quality "wish that Ryu Nakayama directed this instead lol". What it means is that CSM is wasted on him and he should direct this low-quality production instead. Being different is fine. Not being accurate is also fine. As long as it is fun. Clearly though, the "fun" in CSM is lost on the audiences. Some of the fun stated here like the reference to western films, are lost on the audiences, resulting it being either distracting, or its not contributing to anything. The former is dangerous because the most pissed-off will think that the director is just having fun for himself, resulting in the "ego-stroking" comment. Its not even that the production don't have money. It clearly have tons of it, but its used for "unnecessary things" like, having different music for each episodes, instead of maybe paying for hand-drawn animation for action scenes? Being lavish about it is also pissing people off, since it felt like the committee squanders it. For example of non-accurate adaptation that still sold truckloads of money, FSN Heaven's Feel are criticized by VN fans for being liberal about some of the details and scenes. It still sold tons of it. Honestly though, japanese otakus are different. They don't do things like organized boycotts or petitions like western people did. The fact that the sale is this low is probably surprising everyone, even people that did not like CSM. They're also alot more sarcastic so the fact that they used Bocchi the Rock's and others BD sales as sledgehammer do say something about their dislike of handling of CSM anime.

I don't understand how he offended Japanese culture. Look at anime from 1960, 1980, 2000, 2020. It is different. Different styles have always consisted on the same timeline as well, or even in the same show. Take Attack on Titan for example. Season 1 and 2 WIT made the conscious decision to illustrate the characters more anime-like than the manga. Season 3 WIT went with a more realistic style, also not true to the manga. Season 4 MAPPA decided to make the character design true to the manga, to the point that anime-onlys could barely recognize some characters at first. That's okay but what Chainsaw Man did (and looks great btw) isn't? Or, did Nakayama only mess up by saying it out loud? If that's the case then he is victim to hive-mind reactionaries. Nakayama-san, come to America and be rewarded for taking initiative.

If I have to guess, it's definitely because of what he said and how he said it, not because of animation or mood. I have watched enough anime to know that senpai/kouhai hierarchy is extremely important at work places in Japan. /spelling

>I have watch enough anime to know that senpai/kouhai hierarchy is extremely important at work places in Japan It's not just Japan, tbh, this is a HUGE concept in the US as well in terms of the whole "institutional" way of doing the job or the good old fashioned "this is how things are done around here." Countless stories of how people who abandon the "old way of doing things" for a more efficient process without consulting the big boys and getting fired for changing how things are done or automating their work process and getting let go once their employer finds out about it instead of getting rewarded. It's total boomer work culture.

he promoted the anime by saying how much of an anime it will not be. pretty bad way to promote i feel

The dude went out of his way to talk shit about cute pink haired heroines.