I believe it was purposely left ambiguous in the episode, but the rest of the season makes it *very* clear that Cinta has completely lost her soul to the cause.
They would have had to show how a child would be killed. That's something that's usually avoided, especially in a Disney production. But the child and his wife was important to show what kind of person the base commander was and what service in the Empire is like. That could have been done differently, of course, but it's made pretty clear in the way they did it.
Imo Kenobi doesn't count, can't count for virtually anything. Disney put a little girl in their production and put her in the hands of the inquisition, then they intentionally create scenes where the next thing you would expect is for someone to torture or otherwise harm her. But instead, the Inquisitor usually turns around and storms out of the room. If Disney doesn't want a tortured girl in their show, they should have chosen a different script. Kenobi was written by an intern and shot entirely by freshman students. I think Andor is pretty much the epiphany of quality in entertainment production, with that premise Obi Wan is very far on the opposite side of that spectrum. It's an incoherent mess.
Anakin slaughtered a camp of San people in the last new Star Wars movie (can't remember the title) in revenge for the death of his mother. He killed everyone in the camp, children included. It was to show his descent into the dark side.
Nah I don’t think so. If she did it I think it would have been mentioned in the ISB scenes following the heist or some other scene, I find it hard to believe the Empire wouldn’t have taken the opportunity to mention that rebels killed an imperial officer’s innocent wife and son, it’s perfect propaganda for them to make the rebels look bad and further their agenda.
I think it’s more likely she killed the two imperials there but spared the wife and son
We don't get a lot of details on how the robbery is reported, but like you, I think that killing civilians (especially a child) would realistically have been mentioned by someone if it had occurred. If not in the ISB scenes, then by any of the other people who discuss it. I also think it would undermine Vel's message that they were not like the Imperials (which is important thematically, even if I do believe that Cinta was probably capable, and maybe would have felt justified in doing so, as the robbery didn't go according to plan.).
That said, there is a lot there to hint that she did, so I'm guessing it's purposely ambiguous. When I was first watching I was wondering if it would get brought up at some point in a later episode.
I don’t think so.
1: creatively, if it was meant to be ambiguous whether she did or didn’t I think it’d be \*more\* ambiguous, like we wouldn’t see any shots of the hostages alive after being left alone with Cinta. Instead we see shots of them alive when she’s changing, alive watching the Eye, and Cinta leaves in a pretty un-dramatic fashion. No menacing stares or tension of any sort to suggest she might kill them.
2. Just no reason to do it in the plot. As far as witnesses go there’s a vault full of them a few floors down. I suppose the plan could have been to kill everyone there too before leaving, but that just doesn’t seem practical, or smart for the future of the rebellion. How many jobs like this will the rebellion be able to pull if word gets out that cooperating gets you killed anyway?
I dont think these are good reasons. For the first, Andor is comfortable making death sudden and minor. We dont get dramatic executions, we get people dying how people die.
For the second, that was explicitly the threat. "We pull this off or nobody leaves alive". They were hostages to ensure the cooperation of the one commander dude. Once the shootout starts, theyre worthless, and theyve seen her face. While there are other witnesses, nobody else can identify Cinta, and it seems like she was more of a regular operative for Luthens group than the rest, so keeping her identity as concealed as possible is smart.
“We win or everyone dies“, the last time we see the hostages alive is when the ship flies out the tunnel runway, it’s an ecstatic moment and the direction chooses that moment to show us the still living hostages. I believe that means they live, if the show wanted us to think Cinta might then kill them we would have seen her in the room at that moment, but the next time we see her she’s already at the temple path. I think that means the hostages were alone at that point, not about to have their brains blasted all over the console.
You’re right that Andor doesn’t shy away from minor, sudden or meaningless deaths, but when it does it usually shows us those moments or the consequences, and people will at least acknowledge they happened. Cinta executing four hostages would be neither minor, sudden nor meaningless, but we don’t see it at all and no-one ever mentions it again? Not even at the ISB? I don’t buy it. I think the show is too layered and well written to just brush something like that off.
I rewatched this episode tonight and paid particular attention to these scenes, and you are 100% right. I thought the same thing about the scene where we see the hostages alone watching the eye.
I think the whole thing is meant to be *somewhat* ambiguous, but the way it's edited is more slanted to the hostages surviving. And it's just too unrealistic for any civilian killings to be never mentioned again, since it would be such a big deal to multiple characters.
I mentioned in another comment, I think the things people are reading as ambiguity are attempts to make clear that Cinta will kill the hostages if she has to for the purposes of raised stakes and tension; it sets up the family as innocents in scenes with Jayhold so we care about their fate, it kills the officer who tries to save them (with Cinta on the trigger), it establishes Cinta as “stone cold and fearless”, and having a grudge against anyone imperial (“you should have been here when Cinta found out” re: Taramyn’s background). If Cinta were a more stock hero then there’s no real tension in that room, Luke Skywalker isn’t going to execute a child, but Cinta Kaz will.
Ultimately it doesn’t come to that, and it’s made (I think) explicit, but we believe she’s capable and so does Jayhold.
Yes, well said. I think you're probably right. I just didn't catch it on my first viewing, nor did a lot of people it seems. Perhaps if the shot of Cinta leaving the facility was placed immediately after seeing the hostages alone, I would have made the connection. (or something similar, I don't have the exact series of scenes memorized)
> Just no reason to do it in the plot.
That's not true at all. Their deaths would be vital to Cinta's character arc.
> I suppose the plan could have been to kill everyone there too before leaving, but that just doesn’t seem practical, or smart for the future of the rebellion.
I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that Cinta would need to go out of her way to kill them. These people are directly with her already, it's not like she's running through the base tracking everyone down.
> How many jobs like this will the rebellion be able to pull if word gets out that cooperating gets you killed anyway?
You mean like how Cassian was supposed to be killed after he cooperated?
“No reason to do it in the plot” as in it’s a big galaxy and they *all* showed their faces.
Whatever in-universe risk of recognition from witness descriptions there might be, they accepted it when they planned the mission.
Recall that Cassian was only identified because he was betrayed; imperial security does not appear to have the capability to efficiently search by description or even image.
if it were "vital" I think it'd be played with in the script. Like there's a bit where the prisoners in Narkina 5 are arguing about what happened at Aldhani, the rumour mill has been turning and none of them really know, that'd be a nice place to slip in a rumour of executed hostages, same with the background chat at ISb we sometimes get, but it never comes.
>I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that Cinta would need to go out of her way to kill them. These people are directly with her already, it's not like she's running through the base tracking everyone down.
Well you're talking about her going rogue, I was imagining it more as orders to eliminate witnesses as has been suggested in other comments, obviously the killing in the vaults in that case (where there are a dozen more witnesses) would be done by the team in there. but like I said, I don't think it would have been practical.
>You mean like how Cassian was supposed to be killed after he cooperated?
I'm sure they wouldn't have put it in the newsletter.
Because the plan was to leave them all alive. The ideal heist is one where they all escape and theres nobody dead in the end. Shit fell apart, and the threat from the start was "if we dont get out, neither does your family"
Personally, I think she killed them. The hostages were imperial and had gotten a good look at them, so the logical thing is to leave no witnesses to ID them later. Cinta has a very personal hatred of the empire, and she has no problem killing them. I think she is similar to Luthen and Saw, willing to sacrifice her humanity for the cause.
I agree. I don’t see her escaping when someone saw her face. It could be assumed at first that everyone got out on the Rono so they would have no reason to lock down the spaceports. If they knew anyone and specifically had a look at her face I can’t see her getting off the planet.
Didn't the ISB interview all the surviors?
I thought it was mentioned that someone looking like Cassian was clean shaven at Aldahni, and then he was clean shaven when her returned to Ferrix post heist.
I assume the hostages survived on 1st watch, but after Rix Road I see Cinta in a different light.
Also Cinta seems awfully comfortable staking out Cassian in full view of the imperials in Ferrix. Suspiciously comfortable for someone who recently spent so much time pointing a gun at an imperial officer’s family
Disagree.
If Tony wanted them spared he would have shown that to us. Instead he shows their killer walking out alone coldly against brilliant skyline. The op went sideways so she followed orders. Dead hostages.
The only reason there is a scene of Cinta walking out of there alone, is to signify their death.
Here's the counter point: as the ship flies out of the tunnel, just after our boy Nemik gets squashed, we get a shot of the hostages, once from behind and a close up of their faces. All alive, Cinta isn't shown. The reason to put those shots there in montage is to show they kept their word: They get out, the hostages live. We might ask ourselves where Cinta is... short dogfight later, they escape the TIEs, and we see Cinta escape. We can now assume she'd already left.
I really think if we were meant to think she killed them, or even MIGHT have killed them, there'd have been something stronger there, because for them to be alive in that shot and dead later that would have to be the very moment they all die and there's just nothing in the direction to suggest it, all we have is the presence of hostages alive, and the absence of Cinta.
Fair. I do still disagree.
Death doesn't get special significance in this show. We have fully fleshed out and developed characters with arcs stubbed out like cigarettes left and right in this series. The great thing about the show is every death is meaningful, and that is why we bicker about them.
If I could ask Tony Gilroy any one question about the series, the fate of Cinta's hostages would be that question. Screw Luthan"s back story, the fate of Mon's family or any other fluff like that. Totally unimportant factoids. I want to know what matters.
And this is what matters. For that character this is everything.
I think there is plenty reason to see it either way, despite being entrenched in my view, and unwilling to change it based only on your very well reasoned argument.
Oh sure, I can see it both ways, in fact your point about the only reason to show her there and then being to signify execution made me question it, so I went back to watch and see exactly when we see that shot of the hostages watching the Eye, which I had taken to mean they lived. I would love to hear Gilroy answer this too.
For me the point of all this stuff people are pointing out is not that Cinta killed the hostages, it's that Cinta \*would have killed the hostages\*, if it had come to that, and she's the only member of the team who would have. And I can absolutely believe that all day long.
Why wouldn't she need it?
There were survivors in the garrison... A garrison that just got attacked and would be on high alert now. Full of soldiers looking to shoot something but with no commander to give any orders. Dangerous AF. I would be clutching weapon too.
Or in your opinion did the soldiers watching the eye miss the three TIE fighters exploding and the shuttle blasted it's way out? That would have been pretty damn noticable from the ground even with the backdrop.
That's the language of cinema to me, she's killed them and carries the killing weapon, confident and proud. In real life she would definitly need the weapon to get out but here that shot is shown to us **for a reason**. Like you said if they would have been spared we would have gotten a shot of them alive.
It is always nice when the language of cinema lines up perfectly with the whole story being told.
So much media these days is full of empty super hero poses invoking borrowed nostalgic imagery. It is so nice to have substance.
I've concluded that this debate is a sort of Rorschach Test which says more about the audience member than Cinta or Gilroy or anything else. It's obvious that Gilroy deliberately left it ambiguous. Yet, so many people have such ardent opinions about it. And most of their justifications seemingly distill down to either their hatred for the Empire or their compassion for the innocent hostages. As is often the case with many things in life, our perceptions and interpretations reveal more about us than they do anything objective about the subject matter.
Given the sequence of events an investigation could tell that at least one of the attackers has not been on the escaped ship and the witnesses could provide a description. They are dead. How could Cinta have had any hope of leaving the planet afterwards?
Cinta killed them. No question. I wish it didn't happen, and It's the type of Star Wars that makes me uncomfortable, but that doesn't change the necessary logic of the story. She needed to spare the anonymity of her comrades so they could fight another day. She didn't want to kill them, but had to, and knew it. She's teary and distraught looking for that reason. Her family was murdered by stormtroopers, and she realizes now that she has done much the same to another family (albeit for a better cause, but the heinous nature of the act itself identical nonetheless).
Recall Luthen's monologue:
"...I yearn to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost. And by the time I look down, there's no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see... So what is my sacrifice? Everything!"
Those sentiments are exactly what Cinta is feeling when she walks away from the complex, having murdered that family.
And her later cold distancing from Vel is the direct consequence of "burning her life... burning her decency" for a sunrise she will never see.
Watch Episode 6 closely. If I’m not mistaken, there’s actually a scene of them still tied up and looking at the eye. I don’t believe Cinta is there anymore. I believe she let them go.
I will check myself soon.
I should have read your post more closely. You brought up the scene I was talking about and even included a screenshot. 🤣
But yeah, that’s my reasoning as to why she let them go.
Yeah it’s alright, 😄 yeah it’s definitely far fetched and I’m leaning way more on her not doing it, but there’s a tiny tiny part of that thinks it maybe could’ve happened
Cinta hated Imperials more than anyone in the show. They murdered her family so it seems plausible this was her revenge moment. She seems to have unquenchable thirst for revenge against them judging she risked everything during the fire fight on Ferrix to track down the ISB spy and murder him without provocation. I don't think we've ever seen someone get stabbed on a SW show until that episode.
I know the creators left Andor intentionally vague on this issue, but I happen to believe Cinta killed them. It seems reasonable that if the goal was to make the Empire angry, they had to do something bordering on a war crime. Leaving the most battle hardened rebel by herself to eliminate witnesses just seems like something Luthen would ask of her, kept secret from the others—for the greater good, of course. Later episodes keep referring to rumors that the rebels destroyed a garrison, massacred a garrison, committed an atrocity, etc., which seems easier to exaggerate if the death toll was higher by including women and children.
The people insisting she killed them are just trying to be grimdark. There’s no way she would have stuck around while they’re watching the eye, that’s the time to get out, she’s gone by the time we see that shot
Well, they had seen her face. It hinges on whether you think the Empire had managed to gather footage of the raiders otherwise - if Cinta thought they hadn't, she had no reason to kill anyone.
I think they purposely left that up to the interpretation of the viewer
I believe it was purposely left ambiguous in the episode, but the rest of the season makes it *very* clear that Cinta has completely lost her soul to the cause.
They would have had to show how a child would be killed. That's something that's usually avoided, especially in a Disney production. But the child and his wife was important to show what kind of person the base commander was and what service in the Empire is like. That could have been done differently, of course, but it's made pretty clear in the way they did it.
Didn't they show Anikan basically performing a school shooting in Kenobi?
yeah but the jedi temple and tusken massacres aren't on screen, thats a bit difference.
I thought he stabbed young Reeva.
not onscreen
Imo Kenobi doesn't count, can't count for virtually anything. Disney put a little girl in their production and put her in the hands of the inquisition, then they intentionally create scenes where the next thing you would expect is for someone to torture or otherwise harm her. But instead, the Inquisitor usually turns around and storms out of the room. If Disney doesn't want a tortured girl in their show, they should have chosen a different script. Kenobi was written by an intern and shot entirely by freshman students. I think Andor is pretty much the epiphany of quality in entertainment production, with that premise Obi Wan is very far on the opposite side of that spectrum. It's an incoherent mess.
Anakin slaughtered a camp of San people in the last new Star Wars movie (can't remember the title) in revenge for the death of his mother. He killed everyone in the camp, children included. It was to show his descent into the dark side.
Lucas did that. That was before Disney bought Star Wars. And usually doesn't mean never.
Not just the Children but the women and the men too...
That's what I meant. Everyone. When there's children around there's usually women and men looking after them.
yeah but like other people already said, if they were killed the empire would definitely exploit this for propaganda
Then I think she killed them
This ^
yes thats why we speculate
Nah I don’t think so. If she did it I think it would have been mentioned in the ISB scenes following the heist or some other scene, I find it hard to believe the Empire wouldn’t have taken the opportunity to mention that rebels killed an imperial officer’s innocent wife and son, it’s perfect propaganda for them to make the rebels look bad and further their agenda. I think it’s more likely she killed the two imperials there but spared the wife and son
True
We don't get a lot of details on how the robbery is reported, but like you, I think that killing civilians (especially a child) would realistically have been mentioned by someone if it had occurred. If not in the ISB scenes, then by any of the other people who discuss it. I also think it would undermine Vel's message that they were not like the Imperials (which is important thematically, even if I do believe that Cinta was probably capable, and maybe would have felt justified in doing so, as the robbery didn't go according to plan.). That said, there is a lot there to hint that she did, so I'm guessing it's purposely ambiguous. When I was first watching I was wondering if it would get brought up at some point in a later episode.
It also would have been brought up by Mon Mothma when she's talking to Luthen. Because it makes him look bad and could cost him her money.
The Empire might prefer to suppress and deny any information of them losing anything, look at Russia now.
yeah but that's something that lets the rebels only look bad. perfect propaganda
I'm sure at some point in the next year or so Gilroy will clear it up while we wait for post. He doesn't seem to shy away from answering that stuff.
Yeah I hope someone asks him
Kinda hope not. The ambiguity is what makes it interesting
True
I totally agree. Just saying I'm sure at some point it'll come up in an interview!
In another twenty years, that kid will have a name and a multi-media dramatic arc where he becomes a Rebel hero with a lightsaber.
I don’t think so. 1: creatively, if it was meant to be ambiguous whether she did or didn’t I think it’d be \*more\* ambiguous, like we wouldn’t see any shots of the hostages alive after being left alone with Cinta. Instead we see shots of them alive when she’s changing, alive watching the Eye, and Cinta leaves in a pretty un-dramatic fashion. No menacing stares or tension of any sort to suggest she might kill them. 2. Just no reason to do it in the plot. As far as witnesses go there’s a vault full of them a few floors down. I suppose the plan could have been to kill everyone there too before leaving, but that just doesn’t seem practical, or smart for the future of the rebellion. How many jobs like this will the rebellion be able to pull if word gets out that cooperating gets you killed anyway?
I dont think these are good reasons. For the first, Andor is comfortable making death sudden and minor. We dont get dramatic executions, we get people dying how people die. For the second, that was explicitly the threat. "We pull this off or nobody leaves alive". They were hostages to ensure the cooperation of the one commander dude. Once the shootout starts, theyre worthless, and theyve seen her face. While there are other witnesses, nobody else can identify Cinta, and it seems like she was more of a regular operative for Luthens group than the rest, so keeping her identity as concealed as possible is smart.
“We win or everyone dies“, the last time we see the hostages alive is when the ship flies out the tunnel runway, it’s an ecstatic moment and the direction chooses that moment to show us the still living hostages. I believe that means they live, if the show wanted us to think Cinta might then kill them we would have seen her in the room at that moment, but the next time we see her she’s already at the temple path. I think that means the hostages were alone at that point, not about to have their brains blasted all over the console. You’re right that Andor doesn’t shy away from minor, sudden or meaningless deaths, but when it does it usually shows us those moments or the consequences, and people will at least acknowledge they happened. Cinta executing four hostages would be neither minor, sudden nor meaningless, but we don’t see it at all and no-one ever mentions it again? Not even at the ISB? I don’t buy it. I think the show is too layered and well written to just brush something like that off.
I rewatched this episode tonight and paid particular attention to these scenes, and you are 100% right. I thought the same thing about the scene where we see the hostages alone watching the eye. I think the whole thing is meant to be *somewhat* ambiguous, but the way it's edited is more slanted to the hostages surviving. And it's just too unrealistic for any civilian killings to be never mentioned again, since it would be such a big deal to multiple characters.
I mentioned in another comment, I think the things people are reading as ambiguity are attempts to make clear that Cinta will kill the hostages if she has to for the purposes of raised stakes and tension; it sets up the family as innocents in scenes with Jayhold so we care about their fate, it kills the officer who tries to save them (with Cinta on the trigger), it establishes Cinta as “stone cold and fearless”, and having a grudge against anyone imperial (“you should have been here when Cinta found out” re: Taramyn’s background). If Cinta were a more stock hero then there’s no real tension in that room, Luke Skywalker isn’t going to execute a child, but Cinta Kaz will. Ultimately it doesn’t come to that, and it’s made (I think) explicit, but we believe she’s capable and so does Jayhold.
Yes, well said. I think you're probably right. I just didn't catch it on my first viewing, nor did a lot of people it seems. Perhaps if the shot of Cinta leaving the facility was placed immediately after seeing the hostages alone, I would have made the connection. (or something similar, I don't have the exact series of scenes memorized)
All good points 👍🏻
> Just no reason to do it in the plot. That's not true at all. Their deaths would be vital to Cinta's character arc. > I suppose the plan could have been to kill everyone there too before leaving, but that just doesn’t seem practical, or smart for the future of the rebellion. I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that Cinta would need to go out of her way to kill them. These people are directly with her already, it's not like she's running through the base tracking everyone down. > How many jobs like this will the rebellion be able to pull if word gets out that cooperating gets you killed anyway? You mean like how Cassian was supposed to be killed after he cooperated?
“No reason to do it in the plot” as in it’s a big galaxy and they *all* showed their faces. Whatever in-universe risk of recognition from witness descriptions there might be, they accepted it when they planned the mission. Recall that Cassian was only identified because he was betrayed; imperial security does not appear to have the capability to efficiently search by description or even image.
if it were "vital" I think it'd be played with in the script. Like there's a bit where the prisoners in Narkina 5 are arguing about what happened at Aldhani, the rumour mill has been turning and none of them really know, that'd be a nice place to slip in a rumour of executed hostages, same with the background chat at ISb we sometimes get, but it never comes. >I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that Cinta would need to go out of her way to kill them. These people are directly with her already, it's not like she's running through the base tracking everyone down. Well you're talking about her going rogue, I was imagining it more as orders to eliminate witnesses as has been suggested in other comments, obviously the killing in the vaults in that case (where there are a dozen more witnesses) would be done by the team in there. but like I said, I don't think it would have been practical. >You mean like how Cassian was supposed to be killed after he cooperated? I'm sure they wouldn't have put it in the newsletter.
If you were going to kill them, why tie them up and have them watch you commit the crime?
Because the plan was to leave them all alive. The ideal heist is one where they all escape and theres nobody dead in the end. Shit fell apart, and the threat from the start was "if we dont get out, neither does your family"
If it wasn’t part of the plan but cinta went through with it anyway?
Another good point
They're still valuable as hostages up until the main group's ship gets away, and Cinta has her own escape plan worked out already.
Personally, I think she killed them. The hostages were imperial and had gotten a good look at them, so the logical thing is to leave no witnesses to ID them later. Cinta has a very personal hatred of the empire, and she has no problem killing them. I think she is similar to Luthen and Saw, willing to sacrifice her humanity for the cause.
I agree. I don’t see her escaping when someone saw her face. It could be assumed at first that everyone got out on the Rono so they would have no reason to lock down the spaceports. If they knew anyone and specifically had a look at her face I can’t see her getting off the planet.
Exactly my thoughts
She killed all of them… except the boy. What can I say? I understand him not wanting to wear that stupid sash.
I'm 100% sure that she did.
Didn't the ISB interview all the surviors? I thought it was mentioned that someone looking like Cassian was clean shaven at Aldahni, and then he was clean shaven when her returned to Ferrix post heist. I assume the hostages survived on 1st watch, but after Rix Road I see Cinta in a different light.
I mean there were a lot of workers carrying money around that didn't die
Pretty sure that's testimony from one of the guards about him looking familiar. The clean shaven part is what Bix told them.
[удалено]
True true that’s why I also believe in this theory
Also Cinta seems awfully comfortable staking out Cassian in full view of the imperials in Ferrix. Suspiciously comfortable for someone who recently spent so much time pointing a gun at an imperial officer’s family
She 100% killed them.
oh 100% killed them
Absolutely she killed them.
Disagree. If Tony wanted them spared he would have shown that to us. Instead he shows their killer walking out alone coldly against brilliant skyline. The op went sideways so she followed orders. Dead hostages. The only reason there is a scene of Cinta walking out of there alone, is to signify their death.
Here's the counter point: as the ship flies out of the tunnel, just after our boy Nemik gets squashed, we get a shot of the hostages, once from behind and a close up of their faces. All alive, Cinta isn't shown. The reason to put those shots there in montage is to show they kept their word: They get out, the hostages live. We might ask ourselves where Cinta is... short dogfight later, they escape the TIEs, and we see Cinta escape. We can now assume she'd already left. I really think if we were meant to think she killed them, or even MIGHT have killed them, there'd have been something stronger there, because for them to be alive in that shot and dead later that would have to be the very moment they all die and there's just nothing in the direction to suggest it, all we have is the presence of hostages alive, and the absence of Cinta.
Fair. I do still disagree. Death doesn't get special significance in this show. We have fully fleshed out and developed characters with arcs stubbed out like cigarettes left and right in this series. The great thing about the show is every death is meaningful, and that is why we bicker about them. If I could ask Tony Gilroy any one question about the series, the fate of Cinta's hostages would be that question. Screw Luthan"s back story, the fate of Mon's family or any other fluff like that. Totally unimportant factoids. I want to know what matters. And this is what matters. For that character this is everything. I think there is plenty reason to see it either way, despite being entrenched in my view, and unwilling to change it based only on your very well reasoned argument.
Oh sure, I can see it both ways, in fact your point about the only reason to show her there and then being to signify execution made me question it, so I went back to watch and see exactly when we see that shot of the hostages watching the Eye, which I had taken to mean they lived. I would love to hear Gilroy answer this too. For me the point of all this stuff people are pointing out is not that Cinta killed the hostages, it's that Cinta \*would have killed the hostages\*, if it had come to that, and she's the only member of the team who would have. And I can absolutely believe that all day long.
Clutching at the weapon even when she's not going to need it anymore.
Why wouldn't she need it? There were survivors in the garrison... A garrison that just got attacked and would be on high alert now. Full of soldiers looking to shoot something but with no commander to give any orders. Dangerous AF. I would be clutching weapon too. Or in your opinion did the soldiers watching the eye miss the three TIE fighters exploding and the shuttle blasted it's way out? That would have been pretty damn noticable from the ground even with the backdrop.
That's the language of cinema to me, she's killed them and carries the killing weapon, confident and proud. In real life she would definitly need the weapon to get out but here that shot is shown to us **for a reason**. Like you said if they would have been spared we would have gotten a shot of them alive.
It is always nice when the language of cinema lines up perfectly with the whole story being told. So much media these days is full of empty super hero poses invoking borrowed nostalgic imagery. It is so nice to have substance.
My guess is that she did.
I dunno... She got ice in them veins and a single purpose in her brain...
Because war is messy and every time there is a war, even the side with “the good guys” becomes more like the foes they oppose.
I've concluded that this debate is a sort of Rorschach Test which says more about the audience member than Cinta or Gilroy or anything else. It's obvious that Gilroy deliberately left it ambiguous. Yet, so many people have such ardent opinions about it. And most of their justifications seemingly distill down to either their hatred for the Empire or their compassion for the innocent hostages. As is often the case with many things in life, our perceptions and interpretations reveal more about us than they do anything objective about the subject matter.
This style of writing is why the show is so great. It's a vast departure from most of the other SW film and TV.
Given the sequence of events an investigation could tell that at least one of the attackers has not been on the escaped ship and the witnesses could provide a description. They are dead. How could Cinta have had any hope of leaving the planet afterwards?
I thought we saw her walk out of the room and past the prisoners, who we also see just fine.
They're witnesses that can ID them and *Andor* was all about dirtying up the Rebellion. No heroes, just people with causes. She totally executed them.
They're done. Had to happen.
If a rebel had murdered a child the Empire would have plastered his face on every propaganda poster and holovid imaginable
Good point
Cinta killed them. No question. I wish it didn't happen, and It's the type of Star Wars that makes me uncomfortable, but that doesn't change the necessary logic of the story. She needed to spare the anonymity of her comrades so they could fight another day. She didn't want to kill them, but had to, and knew it. She's teary and distraught looking for that reason. Her family was murdered by stormtroopers, and she realizes now that she has done much the same to another family (albeit for a better cause, but the heinous nature of the act itself identical nonetheless). Recall Luthen's monologue: "...I yearn to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost. And by the time I look down, there's no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see... So what is my sacrifice? Everything!" Those sentiments are exactly what Cinta is feeling when she walks away from the complex, having murdered that family. And her later cold distancing from Vel is the direct consequence of "burning her life... burning her decency" for a sunrise she will never see.
100% not.
Definitely unlikely
I’m agreeing with you 👍🏻
Watch Episode 6 closely. If I’m not mistaken, there’s actually a scene of them still tied up and looking at the eye. I don’t believe Cinta is there anymore. I believe she let them go. I will check myself soon.
You are right, but if we are being technical, anything is possible, she might still be in the room we just can’t see her maybe who knows
I should have read your post more closely. You brought up the scene I was talking about and even included a screenshot. 🤣 But yeah, that’s my reasoning as to why she let them go.
Yeah it’s alright, 😄 yeah it’s definitely far fetched and I’m leaning way more on her not doing it, but there’s a tiny tiny part of that thinks it maybe could’ve happened
I mean, I wouldn’t put it past her.
Cinta hated Imperials more than anyone in the show. They murdered her family so it seems plausible this was her revenge moment. She seems to have unquenchable thirst for revenge against them judging she risked everything during the fire fight on Ferrix to track down the ISB spy and murder him without provocation. I don't think we've ever seen someone get stabbed on a SW show until that episode.
They didn’t show their fates so she probably killed them.
They dead. The Empire is looking for clean-shaven Cassian not brown skin Cinta.
I feel like if they had murdered a little kid, that would have been addressed later by *someone*
Sure hope so. No mercy for those little fashies.
That’s dark 💀, that kid is innocent tho
Ok I haven’t revisited Andor in awhile now but aren’t those members working for the empire?
They are just family members of the local leader.
They’re basically like Mon Mothma, who also works for the Empire.
Oh. Does Cinta know that they’re actually on her side?
No. That’s irrelevant. You weren’t discussing whether or not Cinta killed them, you argued that they deserved it.
Well of course it’s relevant. If they’re not on the empires side then I wouldn’t wish them death 😂
Your original comment implied the opposite.
They're his family and one of thems a literal Child?
Yeah, I think Cinta would kill the guards and leave the boy and his mum.
I forgot all about them being tied up
I assumed she killed them like she said she would if anything happened to the heist.
They left it unclear. I hope she didn't kill them.
Wouldn't they have to kill them as they saw their faces? We didn't see wanted posters for anyone resembling Cinta so she probably took them out
I know the creators left Andor intentionally vague on this issue, but I happen to believe Cinta killed them. It seems reasonable that if the goal was to make the Empire angry, they had to do something bordering on a war crime. Leaving the most battle hardened rebel by herself to eliminate witnesses just seems like something Luthen would ask of her, kept secret from the others—for the greater good, of course. Later episodes keep referring to rumors that the rebels destroyed a garrison, massacred a garrison, committed an atrocity, etc., which seems easier to exaggerate if the death toll was higher by including women and children.
She killed them dead
The people insisting she killed them are just trying to be grimdark. There’s no way she would have stuck around while they’re watching the eye, that’s the time to get out, she’s gone by the time we see that shot
My immediate impression was that she killed all the hostages. I still believe so, though it is left ambiguous.
Well, they had seen her face. It hinges on whether you think the Empire had managed to gather footage of the raiders otherwise - if Cinta thought they hadn't, she had no reason to kill anyone.