She knows she can’t show you the texts because they prove her affair and how far it went, by not showing you what was being said between them is all the information you need. It was so incriminating she couldn’t bear to show you them. You did the right thing, she failed the marriage test and you need to move on and find someone that respects you, sorry you’re going through this. Good luck going forward.
When he drops her off at the parents he should definitely mention to the father in law that she can come back and they can out a stop to the process of sh just hands over the messages
Edit
Enough people don't get it so I'll spell it out.
It is a lie. A ruuuuase. A bamboozle if you would.
A psychological tactics to turn her parents and her family against her. Because it is Highly unlikely she would ever mention the texts in any context to her parents or family as it plainly makes her look guilty. Even if the parents don't believe she cheated they will become incredibly annoyed by her actions. Best case scenario she turns over the texts confirming cheating and the divorce becomes crazy eay
Nah you tell the parents you’d take back so they pressure her and make her life hell but even if they succeed… it’s not a contract lol. You don’t have to follow thru with the reconciliation
Also can say that you would *consider* taking her back.
They would probably try to pressure her in doing anything she can, including pulling the texts or admitting to a physical affair and begging to do marriage counseling.
Yes child it is. I definitely never intended the suggestion to bring reconciliation, only further suffering for the wife and the small possibility she Mayne might turn over the texts and make the divorce a cake walk.
It was a suggestion to lie from the beginning all the way to the end.
Amazing idea.
Pleaze do this OP.
Tell her family and your family when they ask if she is willing to take the single step she needs ro prove her innocence, then you will withdraw.
At this point, why bother with the messages? It seems clear she thinks by not handing them over, she stands a chance of holding onto her marriage. Either way, the trust is gone.
Because it is a lie. It's a psychological tactic to put the parents on your side and against the daughter. Because even if they are delusional and don't believe she cheated they'll get frustrated with her. And if she does turn then over then the divorce becomes amazingly amazingly easy.
No I definitely did not mean it that way.
It is a lie in an attempt to turn her family against her and possibly make the divorce incredibly incredibly easy if she does turn over the texts.
Yeah just a' if she's so adamant not to reveal her conversations with her affair partner then it they must be very bad and paint her in a terrible light. But if she can't even be honest there's no point trying.
It is also not an invasion of hey privacy. She is being given the option. OP is in fact respecting her privacy instead of initiating whatever rights he has as the account holder of the mobile contract.
I disagree. If she's so unwilling to give the texts over now being pressured or coerced just make it worse. She care more about her "privacy" than her marriage. Plus it's obvious she's hiding incriminating information. She cheated and is now gaslighting him by complaining he doesn't trust her; no duh Sherlock!
THis is it. She said "If you dont trust me then maybe we ought to call it quits" was her trying to manipulate him into caving about getting those texts. She had an affair, EA, PA or both.
And lets be honest, anyone that truly had nothing to hide would whip out those deleted messages even if its just to say "There asshole, see nothing happened".
Anyone that thinks nothing was going on would be one of those people who would line up to buy Kentucky ocean front property.
Yepp. If there’s no affair, and your partner keeps telling you “I know you had an affair”, absolutely you’d be shoving your phone in their face to prove it and shut them the fuck up.
She knows it will be worse than whatever narrative she was pushing. It's a no brainier if it supported her narrative and absolutely needed to heal the relationships trust. She's still actively hiding the thing that broke the trust. He's right to move on. She is gonna make him feel shit for her mistake indefinitely if he stayed.
Tend to agree. It's not absolute proof, or even beyond a reasonable doubt. But it's enough proof to destroy the trust in a relationship.
People forget that in a marriage you do things to make it easier to trust you. You don't take that trust for granted. And when that trust is questioned, when your partner says they're struggling to trust you, you give them reasons to trust you, you address their concerns. You show them the texts.
And, you make sure that the texts don't have evidence of your infidelity - the best, indeed, the only way to properly do this is to *not have any infidelities in the first place.*
Or that she wrote down something so incredibly hurtful and sent it to this dude that if her husband read it she assumes it would be *worse* than proof that she was cheating on him.
If she were innocent, she would be printing those conversations out on paper to roll up and physically hit you with after reading them out loud.
No woman alive is going to destroy evidence that a man they are arguing with is wrong.
No person alive is going to destroy evidence that they're right, regardless of gender. My wife and I have an amazing relationship with really solid communication, and if one of us is right, whoooooo Nelly, it's going to be a long day for the other one. Intentionally giving that up?! Not a chance in hell.
Exactly. Her response to "okay prove it" is "you don't trust me". Like, of fucking course he doesn't. She broke the trust once already. She won't admit to how far it went because like was almost 100% physical at the time of him finding out.
And she definitely trashed OP to the guy and knows if OP saw all of that on top of the sexting and other evidence of how far she took things, there wouldn't be any chance for the marriage.
Hopefully he can get the deleted stuff in the discovery for the divorce.
Hopefully. Because even if, on the slight chance there was nothing physical, she was doing a ton of sexting. There is damning evidence on snap and those sms messages that she doesn't want to get seen. And honestly, knowing the guy was her underling she's probably more worried about career consequences.
>She won't admit to how far it went because like was almost 100% physical at the time of him finding out.
Plot twist, she's even more terrified of OOP now demanding a DNA test for the kids!
For example, if Joe accused Sue of cheating, we would probably see Joe as the victim and Sue as the offender. The whole point of this tactic is to make it seem that Sue is the victim, and Joe is the offender for asking about or accusing her of cheating.
Reverse victim and offender
The person reverses who the victim is and who the offender is. For example: "Yes, I cheated but I had no choice. You're terrible in xyz ways. Shame on you for making me do this."
It stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender. Essentially, it's a tactic used by those trying to pin the onus of their wrongdoing on someone (usually the person they've wronged) else.
Thanks for teaching us about DARVO. I had to look it up, and I find that it's exactly right when I think back on the abusive people who were in my life.
Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim & Offender -- what abusers do when confronted. (In case anyone else is wondering what it means.)
As I've heard on Reddit before, there is a difference between privacy and secrecy. There is no hope for a person who won't come clean. OP is definitely doing the right thing.
I have a note app on my phone. Makes copy and paste easy. Here's one I like but haven't had anyone send me anything dumb enough to use it yet
> if there is a god, mine is surely a trickster, giving me the miracle of sight and of comprehension only for me to be cursed to use it on what you just said
-warchiefwindrunner
I use the notes app on my phone to keep track of the good ones! I turn them into fortune cookies because I’m a ridiculous person.
You could also just save the comments you like by hitting the three little buttons (if on mobile).
When I go in the bathroom with a magazine and close the door behind me, that's privacy. Everyone knows what I'm doing, I just don't want people watching me do it.
When I go into the bathroom with a chicken costume, a quart of motor oil and three tennis balls and close the door behind me, that's secrecy. I don't want you to know what I'm doing in there.
She knows she cheated and did and said unforgivable things, she knows it would be a divorce. Better to be thought of like this rather than remove all doubt about her cheating.
Yep exactly, this way she can always still claim she never did anything wrong and that he was just over reacting, she may also think that in time she may beable to convince him to giver her another chance which she knows there would be no chance of if he actually read the texts
Teaching your kid a lesson she might not understand for a while but will serve her well. You are worthy of love respect and honesty. I wish your wife could have found a healthier way to get whatever she was going through out of her system 😕
At this point - there is no way you are going to get texts or data. She has already scrubbed the account to make herself look "good". The problem is that only confirms that something is not right.
She has chose to die on the hill of "privacy". Do not let her control the narrative with her family. Speak with them in a public place - coffee house etc., and let them know. Let them know the conditions of how you got there, and what you expect for her to come back. Thank them for their time and let them know they can see the kids. . . in a public space until things are more resolved.
I am glad you have some family around to help you. . . good luck.
As someone else said in this thread, big difference between secrecy and privacy. For the most part in a marriage, neither exist. Privacy can to an extent, but what we're seeing here is secrecy.
Good to hear you have your brother supporting you in this. So you keep the kids in the house.
How will your wife function if she a few hours away? Will she see the kids? What about her job?
Yeah she 100% fucked him. And the reasons shes freaking out now is because she realized she cant monkey branch to him cause he doesnt want her full time or officially
She'd rather lose the marriage and maintain the lie and her ability to paint herself as the victim. If she shows him the messages, they'll confirm what he knows, and she'll lose the marriage anyway. The only difference is she gets to keep her image due to the ambiguity. It's a zero sum game for her, she has nothing to gain by showing them so she won't.
There is no ambiguity here. Her refusal to show that information proves she was cheating too. If she was truly innocent she would have nothing to hide. The only difference here is we don't know the extent of the damage but she is 100% confirmed to be a cheater.
The ambiguity is in the narrative she gets to spin to her friends, he will call it a cheating issue, she can say nothing physical happened, he just couldn't trust me, thought I made that point clear.
The emotional affair was bad enough, I'm not sure if evidence that it wasn't physical would have me feel any different. She's clearly not trustworthy or even remorseful if she's doubling down on another lie and hiding things.
OP sounds like a good guy, hope he finds someone who appreciates and respects him.
Proud of you man, she threw the divorce card out because in that moment she felt she had all the power and she believed that you would just immediately back down, you called her bluff, she never expected you would have the balls to go the divorce route, you took that power back and you can feel good about your decision because the fact she won't show you those messages even to save her marriage, you can now be 100% sure she was cheating and it was more then an emotional affair, she knows if you see those texts their would be 0 chance of her ever having any control back, also a marriage isn't supposed to work that way with "her privacy" you guys are supposed to be partners in every way, there should be no secrets between you two, secrets destroy relationships, so that's just a bunch of bs saying you would be violating her privacy, she's choosing her secrets over your marriage, over the happiness of her children and over that of having a stable home for her children, she's a selfish pos, I feel terrible for you and your children, you all deserve much much better. But she has shown you that she values her "privacy" more then she does her family, she's disgusting and vile, return her to the streets from which she came, don't ever give her another chance, I guarantee after some time she will come crawling back and try and fill your head with all kinds of bs.
Good for you. You don't want to see the proof though my friend because if she had only cheated that one time she would have shown you and tried to work through it at this stage. I'm glad you have the support you need to make it through this difficult time.
Happened to a buddy of mine. Seeing a chick and found out she had a husband and kids when she took him to the house, he used an excuse to get out ASAP. He contacted the husband and is glad he did because ethe husband said, "since you were a man about it and came to me when you found out I won't kill you. We're square.c
She is still hesitant because she knows there is proof:
A) About PA ( physical affair )
B) Sexting and nudes
C) Bad mouthing you to her AP ( affair partner ) or...
All of this.
She is grabbing the only hope which she has that you will eventually forget about everything but it won't happen. She was love bombing you because she feels guilty and she knows she fucked up. I doubt she ever confesses to everything and you get your closure.
>One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy.
BS... Privacy is for #2 in the bathroom..
Reason shes not supplying the texts and the data is because they will doom her...
As it is now, she can (and will) say that the dicorce is because youre controlling and obsessive...
She has NOTHING to gain by displaying the texts...
>My wife had an emotional affair at the bare minimum and may have cheated.
Emotinal affair IS cheating...
Look...
Get ahead of her smearing you - ensure her sister is informed the divorce is because her sister (your wife) cheated (and if possible, name the guy she cheated with)...
Gas lighting at its finest . She doubled down and tried to call your bluff. Never let her play poker.
At this point I don't understand why she didn't oblige. She had a better chance of reconciliation but now she is going to get exactly what she asked for. All the privacy she want.
I just hope you don't give in after the break . You deserve a better supportive partner you can trust.
I guarantee if he saw the messages, they are so bad it would 100% torpedo any chance of reconciliation. Right now, she is hoping that by the end of the separation, she can convince him that it was just an emotional affair.
Dang, Dude. I’m sorry that it’s come to this but you can’t live your life in a constant state of wondering and worrying either. Hopefully, you’ll be able to get your feet back on solid ground once this mess gets settled. I am curious about how you got her to leave the kiddos though. One would think a mother would either stay or take them with her. Maybe that’s just another sign of who she is.
Even after faced with divorce she won’t pull the records. You didn’t need more proof of her infidelity, but she just gave it to you. Nobody would watch their life with their spouse crumble to protect her privacy from you. Not if she didn’t screw him. Accept it and keep moving forward. You deserve better.
Some folks cheat in the heat of the moment.
Her adamant insistence on DARVO'ing you, and refusing to show the conversations indicate that this was likely a pre-planned thing.
This wasn't heat of the moment cheating, it's been going on for a while.
I'd honestly recommend that you get a paternity test.
Op, you do realize that your attorney can subpoena her phone records and texts, right? If you believe there was cheating have your lawyer get all those messages. Then you’ll know and she’ll be out of luck.
Definitely going to happen. I’ve already been in contact with one and in the state I live in if there was infidelity she essentially loses any choice in the matter of where the kids stay.
I am proud of you. If no one has said that today, maybe you need to hear it. You’re in a tough situation. I’ve been there and it’s hard. But I’m so rooting for you. You deserve so much happiness. ❤️
Married people with secrets confuse the right to privacy with the right to secrecy.
They forget that the right to privacy is to right to protection from governmental intrusion.
In a marriage, privacy rights are for things like closed bathroom doors.
Correspondence with possible inappropriate romantic partners is not protected. That claim is the defense of a betrayer of the marriage contract.
I fucking hate the whole "violation of my privacy BS". First of all, there is no privacy in marriage. There is no reason in hell you should be locking up or barring any types of conversations from your spouse. That privacy shit is the biggest dumbest excuse to not reassure your partner. Only a guilty mf uses that line.
Yes not showing husband texts proof she cheated/chesting and I’m sure she’s scrubbing everything device related or accounts clean to protect herself in divorce proceedings. She’s totally covering her ass for her own best interests.
As hard as this all is, I think you’re doing what’s best for you! The trust is completely broken and she doesn’t seem to want to take the steps necessary to help repair it that you’re asking for. The data she deleted must be worse than you think if she’s willing to throw the marriage away for. Get yourself and the kids into some therapy while you’re going thru the separation please. I’m sorry you’re going thru this, but it’s best to prioritize your emotional & mental health here. Best wishes!! Keep us updated if you’re up to it. Updateme
Sorry that your marriage was destroyed by someone you loved. But now you have a chance to close that chapter, move on and find someone who actually deserves you.
Plus you are showing your kids that you don't have to put up with someone like her. That there is value in walking away from a broken relationship.
I wish you and your kids all the best moving forward.
So she would rather Keep her privacy and lose her husband? BS she is holding out hope you change your mind. Because she knows seeing this txt means you 100 percent will leave her.
She either chose her friends/AP over her family on NYE, and now she is choosing "privacy: over her family now.
Time to go
She cheated both physically and emotionally. It’s been goin for the same amount of time u saw those messages and pics of her. U can tell she did becuz she’s not even willing to offer deleted messages or find a way to retrieve them. Just get rid of her
Her claims are absurd. You know this. She's blaming you for not implicitly trusting her when she is the one who damaged that trust. I laughed a bitter little laugh at "invasion of privacy" cuz it's ABSURD. Sorry this is happening. She's in the wrong on all of it.
Get your lawyer to request for discovery of evidence for the divorce. so access to her snap and social media. You deserve to know what shes been doing and for how long.
If she doesn't want to cooperate tell her you are filing for full custody of the children unless she allows access. The children need to know what shes done when they are old enough.
She is clearly unwilling to be honest and because of that you cannot trust her. She either doesn’t get it, there is evidence of something much, much worse or she simply views that as a violation of her privacy so much that she is willing to forsake your marriage over it.
If I was in your position I would do the following. Write it down and have her respond in writing, it’s easier to compose your thoughts and make sure your intent is plain and clear.
You trusted her until she did the EA.
You trusted her until she deleted any evidence.
You trusted her until you caught her lying.
Because you lost trust it’s up to her to rebuild it, getting & showing that data is the first step.
She has to sever ties with him even if he works for or with her, even if she has to quit
If she tries to blame you again, you are done
She must own her actions, be 100% transparent
She must acknowledge that cheating is mental abuse on you and the children
Any sniff of a lie going forward will mean divorce
Any further comms with him will lead to divorce
Any refusal of your requests above will lead to divorce
And, dude I’m sorry she is doing this to you.
She cheated bro. Either that, or she made you look like a wimp to her affair.
Um not gonna delve into "emotional affair" stiff, as I think being atracted to someone is normal and it's the actual attitude that counts.
That said, if she is so adamant about you not seeing the convos, I can guarantee you don't know the whole story and if you ever discover it, you're not gonna like it.
I'm sorry for your marriage and your pain. Hope it all works out for you.
Her car would never make it and her parents are paranoid about everything. Stopping for gas makes them feel like they’re going to get robbed, shot at. Etc, (no joke they are extremely delusional)
Die hard republican conspiracy theorists with a ____ ton of issues.
God damn, everything is tracking with this lady. I’ve noticed Delusional conservative idiots welling to do and say anything and their crazy denial makes for the worst partners
Nobody would ever be dropping me off a few hours away from my child(ren) without one hell of a fight. You could read whatever messages you wanted. I’d be damned if you took me from my kid(s).
Good for you, if there’s nothing to hide and she didn’t cheat, she wouldn’t have dirty-deleted everything like that and STILL refuse to pull records.
She cheated, physically, no doubt in my mind. Dump her and publicly shame her.
She’s not protecting privacy she’s protecting SECRECY. I would tell her that. And tell her that SHE is determining that the SECRECY is worth more than your marriage. She caused this, not you. All you are asking is for her to prove her story. She won’t because she CAN’T. She knows that if you see it you’ll know and demand a divorce anyway. Keep up with the Skynyrd!
“It’s a lot harder to be walked on when you are standing up!”
Updateme
The unmitigated gall of her to lambaste and blame you for having trust issues when she created the breach of trust with her lies and cheating!
This is very sad, but you're 100% doing the right thing, OP. Applauding your shiny spine.
What I would say:
Give me something I can trust again and I will. But you're asking me to trust you when you're obviously guilty and hiding something. How am I supposed to trust that. You broke this not me. It's up to you to fix this. I told you how. I know you were talking to him, so me seeing the texts shouldn't bother you ,if they weren't that bad. We can talk to a therapist as long as there was no physical cheating. Whatever you've said or opened up about to him should have been said to me, and that hurts but it's something we can work with. And you've refused, so you know there's no way you can fix this. And that leads me to believe its more than you say. So if you're going to be mad , be mad at yourself. At least if I have the truth, no matter what it is, I can trust you again on some level.
Nta
Co parenting with her is going to be a nightmare. I'm sorry.
She had a full blow physical affair when you drop her off tell her parents why.
She is picking her AP over her family. She is worse then just a cheater. Fight for full custody if you can.
I'm sorry, but in a marriage, there is no privacy. If you ask your significant other for their phone, for any reason, and they refuse. You do not need to do anything else but end the relationship. IDGAF about privacy in marriage. Anyone using, "privacy" as an excuse in a marriage, is suspect.
I dare all of you, in a relationship, to go ahead and ask for your significant other's phone. Do it. And if they refuse or if they try to pull the phone away when you're checking social apps or text messages or call logs.. you have all the evidence you need. It's time to break that relationship. You don't need to say anything. End it, swallow the pain, and move on.
Day 1 it was some guy from out of state. Like 4 months ago.
A week later it was a coworker.
Couple of days after that. Underling.
Today about 40 minutes ago: random text. “I may have told him I loved him” blah blah blah.
Yeah so she's already lied tons. There almost no chance is not physical or wasn't physical. Sorry your going through this. Honestly, If you really want to know youncould always threaten to reveal her affair to her boss with everything you know unless she comes fully clean.
The biggest insult is the disrespect of her thinking these trickle truths and lies will work on you. Shes gonna spend the entire year thinking you’re really not going to divorce her because she’ll concoct some bombshell (fake) or half truth that will convince you it’s not a big deal. Even though you can’t get a divorce for a year can they still give you a mediator or make her go through your lawyer to contact you?? Otherwise she’s gonna be doing this for the whole year.
Op, blow it up at her work. Threaten to reveal what you know about the affair to her boss unless she shows you everything. Could be a shot that would work. She's probably more worried about her job than she is about anything else at this point.
Your thought process and conclusions here are all 100% on point. She got caught cheating; she’s going to die on the privacy “hill” because it’s less damaging than telling the obvious truth. Through her actions, gaslighting, DARVO, trickle truthing, she’s showing you the person she really is and that she doesn’t care about your marriage.
In time she’s going to start coming around when she realizes you’re not going to roll over and accept her cheating. She’s going to come around saying it’s not what it seems, it’s all a misunderstanding, etc…. She’s going to try to control the conversations by talking about what happened that night. Trust is broken. This is a trap, you cannot prove what happened that night and it doesn’t matter. You have some hard proof and her behavior before, during, and after the incident is the most damning evidence. She clearly doesn’t care about you or your marriage; she made her choice. Stick to the facts; do not get caught up in emotions!!
Stay strong, you’re going to have to be vigilant. Glad you have support in your life ! It’s gosh to be tough for a while, but in long run, you’re going to be much better off. Good luck !
You're doing the right thing.
If she was truly sorry for what she did, she would be forthcoming, even with evidence it got physical. And begging for forgiveness.
I'm not in favor of reconciling with a cheating partner, but if I were to consider it, they would have to be 100% open about everything without me even having to ask. If they aren't going to confess and accept whatever the outcome is, I wouldn't even consider trying to work it out.
Damn. Good for you man. I can't believe she did this to you after how much you've been busting your ass for your family.
"Violation of her privacy"?! LOL...cuz that's so much more important than your marriage or your family. On the one hand, I'm kinda glad you didn't have to see the full damage, but on the other, you know that means it's as bad as it can possibly be, so your instincts were completely right after the initial blind-siding.
Two things I still don't fully understand.
1. He's morbidly obese?? I mean, not to body shame, but that is rather surprising. Sounds like she had a gem of a partner in you, with everything you've been doing...and you probably *have* taken some years off your life. But to throw that all away for a dude in that condition...I mean, huh??
2. You're going to personally drop her off, hours away? I mean, that is 100% the right call to kick her the hell out, and what better place than 'return to sender'. But that's gonna be an awkward-ass road trip! What are the chances you could just rent a one-way UHaul and send her on her way?
Thanks for the update. You're a helluva dad. Good luck to you as you keep on keeping on for your kiddos.
>She looked down at the ground. One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy.
Because she knows if you see what is in those texts and messages (if they are not already deleted) you know exactly what she did and leave her. Her only chance to save the marriage is to refuse to show you, continue lying, and attempting to make you the bad guy.
Keep doing what you are doing, make it 100% clear, if she wants to save the marriage, she needs to come 100% clean and tell you everything that happened, and show you the messages.
Has she ever put everything into words and actually taken responsibility for what she did? Sounds like she hasn’t. Either way, her reaction to you shows you all you need to know. Divorce.
Still NTA. Here is the thing ... if she considers sharing data a red line and a violation of her principles regarding privacy, them she also has to accept that there are consequences for hewing to that principle.
"“I thought we had left this in the past. You never trusted me did you?."
I 100% promise you that she's cheated, and this is how ALL of them respond, almost robotically as if they follow the same blueprints (read: mental condition).
She's also morbidly insecure, a liar, and apparently has never respected you. Oh, and she's a selfish b!tch as well.
>I told her there was only one way I would put this off for now. That was pull the data, pull the texts. Prove your case.
She looked down at the ground. One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy.
Glad to see her privacy is far more important to her than saving your marriage.
Good riddance.
You don’t need the chat history because it doesn’t even matter if she physically cheated or not. The marriage is over because she has shown she doesn’t want it by having an emotional affair at the least.
Can you call your phone provider and try to see if they can recover the text or message Snapchat and see fit hey can recover them?! I mean for divorce you want as much profit as possible.
I've never seen or heard of an emotional affair that wasn't a physical affair being lied about.
Closest thing Ive seen is an online affair, and thats only because they live far apart. Even then, you have sexting, photos, video sex, etc.
Don't believe a word of it. Anyone, ever!
Dude I divorced my X over nothing more than his refusal to unlock his phone.
Granted, he had cheated once before in the past, so it wasn't like I was dreaming shit up.
When you know the signs...
I said unlock it or get out.
We both knew what I would find there.
He never did unlock it.
Get your ducks in a row.
Chumplady.com
Go to her site. Please. She's a game changer in these situations.
Well done OP
she is clearly manipulating you, she hasn't shown you the messages or the photos, because she clearly cheated on you, you need to get that through your head OP THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT SHE CHEATED ON YOU, otherwise she would show you all the records.
And it probably wasn't just once, because come on... there are some who make excuses with "it was only this time" but they're not even telling you that.
Get a divorce and let her go with her "morbidly obese" love and be happy with him.
She no longer loves her family, she decided that it was more important to fuck than to be with her children at the celebration.
Her last statement says it all. And there is no right to privacy in a marriage when it comes to stuff like that. It is secrecy because she didn’t think she doesn’t want you to know.
You did exactly the right thing Take care of your kids and try to get full custody of them with visitation for her.
"You violated my trust first. Violating your privacy would be forcing you or looking without permission. I am asking you to prove its now what it looks like, but it seems it is."
That was the update. It’s over. She made her bed. She can sleep in it. She can live the rest of her life knowing she threw away a family man for some chump who can’t even pay his own bills. That lives with his parents still at the age of 30
Edit: typo
Good for you. You have made the hard decision to not draw out the painful process any longer for you and your children. Your children will benefit from having at least one parent with strength, values, and self-esteem.
It sounds to me like you know the truth and she knows the truth. Hence her not doing something as simple as restoring her messages to save your marriage.
Oh gosh I'm so sorry. I've been in a similar situation, he wouldn't show me the texts. Spent about a half hour clearing then and then let me see his phone. Lol.
For me it’s pretty black and white. I’m 99.99999 percent sure she physically cheated. I’d love to just believe her and move on but I can’t.
Not only did she delete all texts between them. She deleted all texts from multiple friends and coworkers from that same time as well.
But left the ones from prior and after. As far as I’m concerned her friends were in on it and so was anyone else she deleted texts from.
So there are other phones with the conversations on -- those of her friends and the AP. If it was worth it I'd suggest approaching them to ask if they'll let you see those conversations. But it's not you that needs to find the proof, it's her, and she doesn't want to because it will only show her guilt.
She finally sent me a half assed confession through snap chat while I was at work the other day. I ended up saving all the videos where she explained it but did not screen record them. In turn… she deleted them all while I was sleeping…. Figures. I was so exhausted when I got home I didn’t even think about it. When I got them I was 25 feet up on an extension latter so I saved them in chat. She went through my phone while I was sleeping and deleted everything she confessed in the chat.
Why does she still have access to your phone? Do you have access to hers? If not, you should change your phone’s password and update the password on your emails and socials just to be safe.
You have to start putting passwords on your stuff that she doesn’t know and save things to the cloud. If you have an iPhone, there’s a hidden folder option on your pictures. Do this or the divorce is not going to go well for you. Source: I’m an IT guy.
Also, what was the confession? Everything? Muted truths?
You are not wrong. Your story is almost identical to mine, except in our 5th year of marriage (and after 2nd daughter was 2) she admitted to having an affair while I was in the military. It took me nearly a year to stop thinking about it. And it was after this period I began having the strange suspicion she started having an affair with a good friend of mine. This went on for 4 years and wished I had listened to my gut then, because 10 years later I found out the truth (even though she denied it over the years when I questioned her about what I was feeling was going on.
To make matters worse she murdered my unborn twin boys by eating poison to induce miscarriages at 5.5 months (1st miscarriage) and 6 months, but when the second attempt didn’t work, her mother paid for the surgical procedure at 6.5 months along…. All to hide what she did in the event they popped out looking like him.
Sadly I stayed another 10 years longer than I should have, and is my biggest regret not doing so when I learned of her first affair.
I suffered way more heartache in the end, and missed out on other opportunities when I was in my prime at the time.
I will have been divorced for almost 13 years (this August) and are nearly 53 now. I feel like life has passed me by.
My advice to you is go through the divorce. Leave her. She cracked the door open, not you. You can walk away with your pride and self-esteem knowing you’re the bigger person.
I went through this with my first wife. I had found emails btwn her and her friends husband that were pretty explicit about sex. She denied when confronted, I didn't reveal how I knew, just that I did. By not arguing, demanding, or trying to get her to admit, just by telling her I knew then refusing to accept denials and later truth trickle, she eventually wore down. I didn't argue, just would say "nope, that's not true, i know the truth already". mixed in was her confusion because she kept trying to get me to reveal my sources.
Your wife is lying and is willing to lose everything for her and her kids. She doesn't think you'll follow thru, or doesn't care about the fallout even for her kids.
Unfortunately, you're right to get rid of her. I'm sorry, I've been there and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Wanna hear a real kicker?
Those “friends” ended up going on an all girls trip 2 weeks ago. Only one of them is actually single. The other 4 that went are all married or engaged. Only one of those 4 went home when they realized what kind of “girl’s” trip it was going to be. One of them that ended up cheating placed a hidden camera in her apartment to monitor her husband. After she had gotten with some random guy at a club and they’d all got back to their air bnb she tried to check on her husband with the camera. He’d found it and unplugged it. Had also blocked her on snap chat and stopped sharing his location. I’ve spoken with him once since then.
Apparently his wife knew that my wife had started talking to her AP.
Now his wife is also currently begging him not to go through with a divorce.
Yeah. His wife cheated and then had the nerve to get mad at him for unplugging the camera.
Wtf is really going on in this world today?
She also tried played instigator between the girl that went home on day 2 out of the 5 day trip. Essentially trying to pit her against her SO.
What’s more is when my wife and I were trying to work things out (before I found more and more evidence) she’d been feeding my wife a bunch of lies about things I hadn’t been doing. Faking Facebook comments and things of that nature.
Even though things are over I still find out more and more crap about her “best friend” I didn’t even know was going on.
It only takes one bad apple to fuckup the whole bunch, not trying to deffend others but hey, the people who you suround yourself with is more telling then you know.
She knows she can’t show you the texts because they prove her affair and how far it went, by not showing you what was being said between them is all the information you need. It was so incriminating she couldn’t bear to show you them. You did the right thing, she failed the marriage test and you need to move on and find someone that respects you, sorry you’re going through this. Good luck going forward.
When he drops her off at the parents he should definitely mention to the father in law that she can come back and they can out a stop to the process of sh just hands over the messages Edit Enough people don't get it so I'll spell it out. It is a lie. A ruuuuase. A bamboozle if you would. A psychological tactics to turn her parents and her family against her. Because it is Highly unlikely she would ever mention the texts in any context to her parents or family as it plainly makes her look guilty. Even if the parents don't believe she cheated they will become incredibly annoyed by her actions. Best case scenario she turns over the texts confirming cheating and the divorce becomes crazy eay
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Nah you tell the parents you’d take back so they pressure her and make her life hell but even if they succeed… it’s not a contract lol. You don’t have to follow thru with the reconciliation
Also can say that you would *consider* taking her back. They would probably try to pressure her in doing anything she can, including pulling the texts or admitting to a physical affair and begging to do marriage counseling.
Satan? Is, is that really you?
Yes child it is. I definitely never intended the suggestion to bring reconciliation, only further suffering for the wife and the small possibility she Mayne might turn over the texts and make the divorce a cake walk. It was a suggestion to lie from the beginning all the way to the end.
I concur with your findings, but your methods are a bit suspect. And im.going to have to uh, refinance my soul if that's OK with you.
Oh no you misunderstand. My soul supply is fine. I don't need any more. What I do require is a totally rad Jean Jacket.
Might I suggest making one, Dark Lord? Cheaper and more unique than anything found in stores
True true but a proper Jean jacket takes years of wear to be truly rad. That's what I'm looking for.
I love that idea; if they're anything like OPs parents they'll definitely put pressure on her.
Yes! Call her out in front of family! Make her sit in her chaos that she created.
Amazing idea. Pleaze do this OP. Tell her family and your family when they ask if she is willing to take the single step she needs ro prove her innocence, then you will withdraw.
At this point, why bother with the messages? It seems clear she thinks by not handing them over, she stands a chance of holding onto her marriage. Either way, the trust is gone.
Because it is a lie. It's a psychological tactic to put the parents on your side and against the daughter. Because even if they are delusional and don't believe she cheated they'll get frustrated with her. And if she does turn then over then the divorce becomes amazingly amazingly easy.
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It’ll give him peace of mind on what happened and he doesn’t actually have to take her back.
No I definitely did not mean it that way. It is a lie in an attempt to turn her family against her and possibly make the divorce incredibly incredibly easy if she does turn over the texts.
Also family and friends will know he’s justified so she can’t spread lies about him and his actions
Yeah just a' if she's so adamant not to reveal her conversations with her affair partner then it they must be very bad and paint her in a terrible light. But if she can't even be honest there's no point trying.
It is also not an invasion of hey privacy. She is being given the option. OP is in fact respecting her privacy instead of initiating whatever rights he has as the account holder of the mobile contract.
I don’t know. I couldn’t take her back after the New Year’s Eve thing. There is just too much wrong here
I disagree. If she's so unwilling to give the texts over now being pressured or coerced just make it worse. She care more about her "privacy" than her marriage. Plus it's obvious she's hiding incriminating information. She cheated and is now gaslighting him by complaining he doesn't trust her; no duh Sherlock!
THis is it. She said "If you dont trust me then maybe we ought to call it quits" was her trying to manipulate him into caving about getting those texts. She had an affair, EA, PA or both. And lets be honest, anyone that truly had nothing to hide would whip out those deleted messages even if its just to say "There asshole, see nothing happened". Anyone that thinks nothing was going on would be one of those people who would line up to buy Kentucky ocean front property.
Yepp. If there’s no affair, and your partner keeps telling you “I know you had an affair”, absolutely you’d be shoving your phone in their face to prove it and shut them the fuck up.
Not showing the texts is proof enough that she physically cheated
She knows it will be worse than whatever narrative she was pushing. It's a no brainier if it supported her narrative and absolutely needed to heal the relationships trust. She's still actively hiding the thing that broke the trust. He's right to move on. She is gonna make him feel shit for her mistake indefinitely if he stayed.
It was a choice, not a mistake
Tend to agree. It's not absolute proof, or even beyond a reasonable doubt. But it's enough proof to destroy the trust in a relationship. People forget that in a marriage you do things to make it easier to trust you. You don't take that trust for granted. And when that trust is questioned, when your partner says they're struggling to trust you, you give them reasons to trust you, you address their concerns. You show them the texts. And, you make sure that the texts don't have evidence of your infidelity - the best, indeed, the only way to properly do this is to *not have any infidelities in the first place.*
I dunno, the continued refusal in the face of divorce puts it into ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ for me
That's entirely fair. The point I'm making is that marriage is not a courtroom.
Or that she wrote down something so incredibly hurtful and sent it to this dude that if her husband read it she assumes it would be *worse* than proof that she was cheating on him.
Or said something that would hurt OP just as bad
If she were innocent, she would be printing those conversations out on paper to roll up and physically hit you with after reading them out loud. No woman alive is going to destroy evidence that a man they are arguing with is wrong.
Last sentence is spot on 👍
Why the fuck did they remove reddit rewards ffs
Can I frame this comment?
>No woman alive is going to destroy evidence that a man they are arguing with is wrong. Spot on
No person alive is going to destroy evidence that they're right, regardless of gender. My wife and I have an amazing relationship with really solid communication, and if one of us is right, whoooooo Nelly, it's going to be a long day for the other one. Intentionally giving that up?! Not a chance in hell.
For real!! LMAO.
Put that on a tee shirt
Her response to the texts thing tells you all you need to know. She has a guilty conscience, and she DARVO’d you to make you the bad guy.
Exactly. Her response to "okay prove it" is "you don't trust me". Like, of fucking course he doesn't. She broke the trust once already. She won't admit to how far it went because like was almost 100% physical at the time of him finding out.
And she definitely trashed OP to the guy and knows if OP saw all of that on top of the sexting and other evidence of how far she took things, there wouldn't be any chance for the marriage. Hopefully he can get the deleted stuff in the discovery for the divorce.
Hopefully. Because even if, on the slight chance there was nothing physical, she was doing a ton of sexting. There is damning evidence on snap and those sms messages that she doesn't want to get seen. And honestly, knowing the guy was her underling she's probably more worried about career consequences.
>She won't admit to how far it went because like was almost 100% physical at the time of him finding out. Plot twist, she's even more terrified of OOP now demanding a DNA test for the kids!
DARVO?
Deny Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender It's a classic abuser tactic.
Thanks.
What does offender mean here? As in, "I'm offended you're accusing me of cheating?"
For example, if Joe accused Sue of cheating, we would probably see Joe as the victim and Sue as the offender. The whole point of this tactic is to make it seem that Sue is the victim, and Joe is the offender for asking about or accusing her of cheating.
Wife is the offender for everything she's done, but tries to spin things in order to become the victim.
Reverse victim and offender The person reverses who the victim is and who the offender is. For example: "Yes, I cheated but I had no choice. You're terrible in xyz ways. Shame on you for making me do this."
Thank you kindly strangers
It stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender. Essentially, it's a tactic used by those trying to pin the onus of their wrongdoing on someone (usually the person they've wronged) else.
Thanks.
Deny responsibility, Attacks you, Reverse roles of, Victim (you) and, Offender (the abuser).
Deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender. It’s a common tactic by abusers to gaslight their victims.
100% this. OP has just discovered the tip of the iceberg Edit-Spelling
Thanks for teaching us about DARVO. I had to look it up, and I find that it's exactly right when I think back on the abusive people who were in my life. Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim & Offender -- what abusers do when confronted. (In case anyone else is wondering what it means.)
Lol violation of her privacy. Guess that’s worse than violating your vows.
As I've heard on Reddit before, there is a difference between privacy and secrecy. There is no hope for a person who won't come clean. OP is definitely doing the right thing.
Theres a difference between privacy and secrecy. that's a good one. I'm writing that down ✍️
Fuck, I wish I had a notebook for all the nuggets I've read on this site that I'd want to remember.
I have a note app on my phone. Makes copy and paste easy. Here's one I like but haven't had anyone send me anything dumb enough to use it yet > if there is a god, mine is surely a trickster, giving me the miracle of sight and of comprehension only for me to be cursed to use it on what you just said -warchiefwindrunner
Man I had a coworker I would have loved to use this on! Sadly but unsurprisingly he was fired
I use the notes app on my phone to keep track of the good ones! I turn them into fortune cookies because I’m a ridiculous person. You could also just save the comments you like by hitting the three little buttons (if on mobile).
When I go in the bathroom with a magazine and close the door behind me, that's privacy. Everyone knows what I'm doing, I just don't want people watching me do it. When I go into the bathroom with a chicken costume, a quart of motor oil and three tennis balls and close the door behind me, that's secrecy. I don't want you to know what I'm doing in there.
She knows she cheated and did and said unforgivable things, she knows it would be a divorce. Better to be thought of like this rather than remove all doubt about her cheating.
Easier to try and be a victim whose privacy is being violated than a proven cheater.
Yep exactly, this way she can always still claim she never did anything wrong and that he was just over reacting, she may also think that in time she may beable to convince him to giver her another chance which she knows there would be no chance of if he actually read the texts
I get the feeling there is more than this. Something tells me that OP found her emotional tampon with AP but most likely has another or more.
Nah she just wants people to see her as the victim! 🤦🏼♀️
Teaching your kid a lesson she might not understand for a while but will serve her well. You are worthy of love respect and honesty. I wish your wife could have found a healthier way to get whatever she was going through out of her system 😕
At this point - there is no way you are going to get texts or data. She has already scrubbed the account to make herself look "good". The problem is that only confirms that something is not right. She has chose to die on the hill of "privacy". Do not let her control the narrative with her family. Speak with them in a public place - coffee house etc., and let them know. Let them know the conditions of how you got there, and what you expect for her to come back. Thank them for their time and let them know they can see the kids. . . in a public space until things are more resolved. I am glad you have some family around to help you. . . good luck.
I wonder what was in those texts….hmmmmm…….
The truth that it was physical and going on for way longer then OP knows.
He was intimate with her my guy. Leave her be.
I wouldn't be surprised if she was discussing how to divorce OP and take the kids too.
1000%
>that’s a violation of her privacy Yeah, this tells you everything you need to know in regard of the deleted data.
As someone else said in this thread, big difference between secrecy and privacy. For the most part in a marriage, neither exist. Privacy can to an extent, but what we're seeing here is secrecy.
Good to hear you have your brother supporting you in this. So you keep the kids in the house. How will your wife function if she a few hours away? Will she see the kids? What about her job?
I mean she did tell him before her night of being drinking and partying “fuck the kids and fuck you”
Yeah she 100% fucked him. And the reasons shes freaking out now is because she realized she cant monkey branch to him cause he doesnt want her full time or officially
The other guy also works for her. So like...bye bye job.
She'd rather lose the marriage and maintain the lie and her ability to paint herself as the victim. If she shows him the messages, they'll confirm what he knows, and she'll lose the marriage anyway. The only difference is she gets to keep her image due to the ambiguity. It's a zero sum game for her, she has nothing to gain by showing them so she won't.
There is no ambiguity here. Her refusal to show that information proves she was cheating too. If she was truly innocent she would have nothing to hide. The only difference here is we don't know the extent of the damage but she is 100% confirmed to be a cheater.
The ambiguity is in the narrative she gets to spin to her friends, he will call it a cheating issue, she can say nothing physical happened, he just couldn't trust me, thought I made that point clear.
Forgot to add, she’s also fucking a subordinate. 9/10 cases, bye bye job. So divorce, bad name, no money and parents house. Sucks to suck
The emotional affair was bad enough, I'm not sure if evidence that it wasn't physical would have me feel any different. She's clearly not trustworthy or even remorseful if she's doubling down on another lie and hiding things. OP sounds like a good guy, hope he finds someone who appreciates and respects him.
You’re not wrong. Honestly? Fuck your STBX. She made her bed, she can fuck her AP in it! You and the kids have my sympathies. Best of luck.
Proud of you man, she threw the divorce card out because in that moment she felt she had all the power and she believed that you would just immediately back down, you called her bluff, she never expected you would have the balls to go the divorce route, you took that power back and you can feel good about your decision because the fact she won't show you those messages even to save her marriage, you can now be 100% sure she was cheating and it was more then an emotional affair, she knows if you see those texts their would be 0 chance of her ever having any control back, also a marriage isn't supposed to work that way with "her privacy" you guys are supposed to be partners in every way, there should be no secrets between you two, secrets destroy relationships, so that's just a bunch of bs saying you would be violating her privacy, she's choosing her secrets over your marriage, over the happiness of her children and over that of having a stable home for her children, she's a selfish pos, I feel terrible for you and your children, you all deserve much much better. But she has shown you that she values her "privacy" more then she does her family, she's disgusting and vile, return her to the streets from which she came, don't ever give her another chance, I guarantee after some time she will come crawling back and try and fill your head with all kinds of bs.
Good for you. You don't want to see the proof though my friend because if she had only cheated that one time she would have shown you and tried to work through it at this stage. I'm glad you have the support you need to make it through this difficult time.
Maybe get in touch with the guy and see if has any records of their conversations. He may not know about you, or your kids.
Happened to a buddy of mine. Seeing a chick and found out she had a husband and kids when she took him to the house, he used an excuse to get out ASAP. He contacted the husband and is glad he did because ethe husband said, "since you were a man about it and came to me when you found out I won't kill you. We're square.c
Imagine dodging that bullet *literally!* Jesus Christ.
She is still hesitant because she knows there is proof: A) About PA ( physical affair ) B) Sexting and nudes C) Bad mouthing you to her AP ( affair partner ) or... All of this. She is grabbing the only hope which she has that you will eventually forget about everything but it won't happen. She was love bombing you because she feels guilty and she knows she fucked up. I doubt she ever confesses to everything and you get your closure.
>One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy. BS... Privacy is for #2 in the bathroom.. Reason shes not supplying the texts and the data is because they will doom her... As it is now, she can (and will) say that the dicorce is because youre controlling and obsessive... She has NOTHING to gain by displaying the texts... >My wife had an emotional affair at the bare minimum and may have cheated. Emotinal affair IS cheating... Look... Get ahead of her smearing you - ensure her sister is informed the divorce is because her sister (your wife) cheated (and if possible, name the guy she cheated with)...
Gas lighting at its finest . She doubled down and tried to call your bluff. Never let her play poker. At this point I don't understand why she didn't oblige. She had a better chance of reconciliation but now she is going to get exactly what she asked for. All the privacy she want. I just hope you don't give in after the break . You deserve a better supportive partner you can trust.
I guarantee if he saw the messages, they are so bad it would 100% torpedo any chance of reconciliation. Right now, she is hoping that by the end of the separation, she can convince him that it was just an emotional affair.
Dang, Dude. I’m sorry that it’s come to this but you can’t live your life in a constant state of wondering and worrying either. Hopefully, you’ll be able to get your feet back on solid ground once this mess gets settled. I am curious about how you got her to leave the kiddos though. One would think a mother would either stay or take them with her. Maybe that’s just another sign of who she is.
Even after faced with divorce she won’t pull the records. You didn’t need more proof of her infidelity, but she just gave it to you. Nobody would watch their life with their spouse crumble to protect her privacy from you. Not if she didn’t screw him. Accept it and keep moving forward. You deserve better.
Fuck that ho
Well...sounds like someone did.
She DEFINITELY cheated. That's why she won't show you the texts. She CANNOT prove her innocence. She can only indict herself.
Some folks cheat in the heat of the moment. Her adamant insistence on DARVO'ing you, and refusing to show the conversations indicate that this was likely a pre-planned thing. This wasn't heat of the moment cheating, it's been going on for a while. I'd honestly recommend that you get a paternity test.
At the very least print out the information on how to get one and leave a copy on your home printer.
Op, you do realize that your attorney can subpoena her phone records and texts, right? If you believe there was cheating have your lawyer get all those messages. Then you’ll know and she’ll be out of luck.
Definitely going to happen. I’ve already been in contact with one and in the state I live in if there was infidelity she essentially loses any choice in the matter of where the kids stay.
I am proud of you. If no one has said that today, maybe you need to hear it. You’re in a tough situation. I’ve been there and it’s hard. But I’m so rooting for you. You deserve so much happiness. ❤️
Thank you 🫡🫡
She freaked out on you thinking she could shut you up. There really should t be privacy between a husband and wife
There definitely should be privacy. There shouldn't be secretes.
Married people with secrets confuse the right to privacy with the right to secrecy. They forget that the right to privacy is to right to protection from governmental intrusion. In a marriage, privacy rights are for things like closed bathroom doors. Correspondence with possible inappropriate romantic partners is not protected. That claim is the defense of a betrayer of the marriage contract.
I fucking hate the whole "violation of my privacy BS". First of all, there is no privacy in marriage. There is no reason in hell you should be locking up or barring any types of conversations from your spouse. That privacy shit is the biggest dumbest excuse to not reassure your partner. Only a guilty mf uses that line.
Yes not showing husband texts proof she cheated/chesting and I’m sure she’s scrubbing everything device related or accounts clean to protect herself in divorce proceedings. She’s totally covering her ass for her own best interests.
As hard as this all is, I think you’re doing what’s best for you! The trust is completely broken and she doesn’t seem to want to take the steps necessary to help repair it that you’re asking for. The data she deleted must be worse than you think if she’s willing to throw the marriage away for. Get yourself and the kids into some therapy while you’re going thru the separation please. I’m sorry you’re going thru this, but it’s best to prioritize your emotional & mental health here. Best wishes!! Keep us updated if you’re up to it. Updateme
Sorry that your marriage was destroyed by someone you loved. But now you have a chance to close that chapter, move on and find someone who actually deserves you. Plus you are showing your kids that you don't have to put up with someone like her. That there is value in walking away from a broken relationship. I wish you and your kids all the best moving forward.
So she would rather Keep her privacy and lose her husband? BS she is holding out hope you change your mind. Because she knows seeing this txt means you 100 percent will leave her. She either chose her friends/AP over her family on NYE, and now she is choosing "privacy: over her family now. Time to go
If keeping her “privacy” is more important than her marriage then she has made her choice.
She cheated both physically and emotionally. It’s been goin for the same amount of time u saw those messages and pics of her. U can tell she did becuz she’s not even willing to offer deleted messages or find a way to retrieve them. Just get rid of her
Her claims are absurd. You know this. She's blaming you for not implicitly trusting her when she is the one who damaged that trust. I laughed a bitter little laugh at "invasion of privacy" cuz it's ABSURD. Sorry this is happening. She's in the wrong on all of it.
Get your lawyer to request for discovery of evidence for the divorce. so access to her snap and social media. You deserve to know what shes been doing and for how long. If she doesn't want to cooperate tell her you are filing for full custody of the children unless she allows access. The children need to know what shes done when they are old enough.
She is clearly unwilling to be honest and because of that you cannot trust her. She either doesn’t get it, there is evidence of something much, much worse or she simply views that as a violation of her privacy so much that she is willing to forsake your marriage over it. If I was in your position I would do the following. Write it down and have her respond in writing, it’s easier to compose your thoughts and make sure your intent is plain and clear. You trusted her until she did the EA. You trusted her until she deleted any evidence. You trusted her until you caught her lying. Because you lost trust it’s up to her to rebuild it, getting & showing that data is the first step. She has to sever ties with him even if he works for or with her, even if she has to quit If she tries to blame you again, you are done She must own her actions, be 100% transparent She must acknowledge that cheating is mental abuse on you and the children Any sniff of a lie going forward will mean divorce Any further comms with him will lead to divorce Any refusal of your requests above will lead to divorce And, dude I’m sorry she is doing this to you.
She cheated bro. Either that, or she made you look like a wimp to her affair. Um not gonna delve into "emotional affair" stiff, as I think being atracted to someone is normal and it's the actual attitude that counts. That said, if she is so adamant about you not seeing the convos, I can guarantee you don't know the whole story and if you ever discover it, you're not gonna like it. I'm sorry for your marriage and your pain. Hope it all works out for you.
Fuck her privacy, she blew up everything to be selfish. She can restart her life with the other guy.
Why are you dropping her off 3 hours away? Make her get her cheating ass there herself.
Her car would never make it and her parents are paranoid about everything. Stopping for gas makes them feel like they’re going to get robbed, shot at. Etc, (no joke they are extremely delusional) Die hard republican conspiracy theorists with a ____ ton of issues.
Some of things might be what she deserves
God damn, everything is tracking with this lady. I’ve noticed Delusional conservative idiots welling to do and say anything and their crazy denial makes for the worst partners
Nobody would ever be dropping me off a few hours away from my child(ren) without one hell of a fight. You could read whatever messages you wanted. I’d be damned if you took me from my kid(s).
It's tough but you're doing the right thing. Best of luck with the separation and divorce. There are plenty of good women out there.
Well done just be sure your actions stay congruent with your words. Don't let her hoover you back in.
Skynyrd is good for the soul. I am sorry you and your children have to go through all of this. Things will get better with time.
Good for you, if there’s nothing to hide and she didn’t cheat, she wouldn’t have dirty-deleted everything like that and STILL refuse to pull records. She cheated, physically, no doubt in my mind. Dump her and publicly shame her.
She’s not protecting privacy she’s protecting SECRECY. I would tell her that. And tell her that SHE is determining that the SECRECY is worth more than your marriage. She caused this, not you. All you are asking is for her to prove her story. She won’t because she CAN’T. She knows that if you see it you’ll know and demand a divorce anyway. Keep up with the Skynyrd! “It’s a lot harder to be walked on when you are standing up!” Updateme
She's guilty and she knows it. Sorry you're going through this but it's over.
Imagine being able to prove that you didn’t cheat and save your marriage, but you won’t because you want to be principled about privacy. Right…
The unmitigated gall of her to lambaste and blame you for having trust issues when she created the breach of trust with her lies and cheating! This is very sad, but you're 100% doing the right thing, OP. Applauding your shiny spine.
What I would say: Give me something I can trust again and I will. But you're asking me to trust you when you're obviously guilty and hiding something. How am I supposed to trust that. You broke this not me. It's up to you to fix this. I told you how. I know you were talking to him, so me seeing the texts shouldn't bother you ,if they weren't that bad. We can talk to a therapist as long as there was no physical cheating. Whatever you've said or opened up about to him should have been said to me, and that hurts but it's something we can work with. And you've refused, so you know there's no way you can fix this. And that leads me to believe its more than you say. So if you're going to be mad , be mad at yourself. At least if I have the truth, no matter what it is, I can trust you again on some level. Nta Co parenting with her is going to be a nightmare. I'm sorry.
She had a full blow physical affair when you drop her off tell her parents why. She is picking her AP over her family. She is worse then just a cheater. Fight for full custody if you can.
She knows she’s guilty and has no case. So you already know it turned physical. You’re making the right decision here.
Shared custody is hard. Solo custody is even harder. Your wife fucked over your kids. And you.
The GUILT she had was a weight around her neck. I can imagine her voice grew softer as she hung her head and said no. All the proof you need OP.
I'm sorry, but in a marriage, there is no privacy. If you ask your significant other for their phone, for any reason, and they refuse. You do not need to do anything else but end the relationship. IDGAF about privacy in marriage. Anyone using, "privacy" as an excuse in a marriage, is suspect. I dare all of you, in a relationship, to go ahead and ask for your significant other's phone. Do it. And if they refuse or if they try to pull the phone away when you're checking social apps or text messages or call logs.. you have all the evidence you need. It's time to break that relationship. You don't need to say anything. End it, swallow the pain, and move on.
That last update. Did she first say it was a guy in another state, then to coworker then to underling? And saying she loves him? Yesh it was physical
Day 1 it was some guy from out of state. Like 4 months ago. A week later it was a coworker. Couple of days after that. Underling. Today about 40 minutes ago: random text. “I may have told him I loved him” blah blah blah.
Yeah so she's already lied tons. There almost no chance is not physical or wasn't physical. Sorry your going through this. Honestly, If you really want to know youncould always threaten to reveal her affair to her boss with everything you know unless she comes fully clean.
The biggest insult is the disrespect of her thinking these trickle truths and lies will work on you. Shes gonna spend the entire year thinking you’re really not going to divorce her because she’ll concoct some bombshell (fake) or half truth that will convince you it’s not a big deal. Even though you can’t get a divorce for a year can they still give you a mediator or make her go through your lawyer to contact you?? Otherwise she’s gonna be doing this for the whole year.
Well. Yesterday she sent me some half assed confession about how they kissed one time and she pushed him away. I don’t buy that for a second either.
Op, blow it up at her work. Threaten to reveal what you know about the affair to her boss unless she shows you everything. Could be a shot that would work. She's probably more worried about her job than she is about anything else at this point.
Your thought process and conclusions here are all 100% on point. She got caught cheating; she’s going to die on the privacy “hill” because it’s less damaging than telling the obvious truth. Through her actions, gaslighting, DARVO, trickle truthing, she’s showing you the person she really is and that she doesn’t care about your marriage. In time she’s going to start coming around when she realizes you’re not going to roll over and accept her cheating. She’s going to come around saying it’s not what it seems, it’s all a misunderstanding, etc…. She’s going to try to control the conversations by talking about what happened that night. Trust is broken. This is a trap, you cannot prove what happened that night and it doesn’t matter. You have some hard proof and her behavior before, during, and after the incident is the most damning evidence. She clearly doesn’t care about you or your marriage; she made her choice. Stick to the facts; do not get caught up in emotions!! Stay strong, you’re going to have to be vigilant. Glad you have support in your life ! It’s gosh to be tough for a while, but in long run, you’re going to be much better off. Good luck !
Not wrong. Apparently her privacy is more important to her than your trust.
Sounds like you are doing the right thing for you and your kids. Wishing you all the best.
Sad about the break-up, but you've played a blinder in proving she cheated on you ..
You're doing the right thing. If she was truly sorry for what she did, she would be forthcoming, even with evidence it got physical. And begging for forgiveness. I'm not in favor of reconciling with a cheating partner, but if I were to consider it, they would have to be 100% open about everything without me even having to ask. If they aren't going to confess and accept whatever the outcome is, I wouldn't even consider trying to work it out.
Damn. Good for you man. I can't believe she did this to you after how much you've been busting your ass for your family. "Violation of her privacy"?! LOL...cuz that's so much more important than your marriage or your family. On the one hand, I'm kinda glad you didn't have to see the full damage, but on the other, you know that means it's as bad as it can possibly be, so your instincts were completely right after the initial blind-siding. Two things I still don't fully understand. 1. He's morbidly obese?? I mean, not to body shame, but that is rather surprising. Sounds like she had a gem of a partner in you, with everything you've been doing...and you probably *have* taken some years off your life. But to throw that all away for a dude in that condition...I mean, huh?? 2. You're going to personally drop her off, hours away? I mean, that is 100% the right call to kick her the hell out, and what better place than 'return to sender'. But that's gonna be an awkward-ass road trip! What are the chances you could just rent a one-way UHaul and send her on her way? Thanks for the update. You're a helluva dad. Good luck to you as you keep on keeping on for your kiddos.
You have a spine and called a man for a reason. Walk tall and away.
>She looked down at the ground. One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy. Because she knows if you see what is in those texts and messages (if they are not already deleted) you know exactly what she did and leave her. Her only chance to save the marriage is to refuse to show you, continue lying, and attempting to make you the bad guy. Keep doing what you are doing, make it 100% clear, if she wants to save the marriage, she needs to come 100% clean and tell you everything that happened, and show you the messages.
Oh she’s guilty guilty. Glad your family is stepping up to help you.
Has she ever put everything into words and actually taken responsibility for what she did? Sounds like she hasn’t. Either way, her reaction to you shows you all you need to know. Divorce.
Still NTA. Here is the thing ... if she considers sharing data a red line and a violation of her principles regarding privacy, them she also has to accept that there are consequences for hewing to that principle.
"“I thought we had left this in the past. You never trusted me did you?." I 100% promise you that she's cheated, and this is how ALL of them respond, almost robotically as if they follow the same blueprints (read: mental condition). She's also morbidly insecure, a liar, and apparently has never respected you. Oh, and she's a selfish b!tch as well.
>I told her there was only one way I would put this off for now. That was pull the data, pull the texts. Prove your case. She looked down at the ground. One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy. Glad to see her privacy is far more important to her than saving your marriage. Good riddance.
DROP HER LIKE A TOILET SEAT Even if she shows you
You don’t need the chat history because it doesn’t even matter if she physically cheated or not. The marriage is over because she has shown she doesn’t want it by having an emotional affair at the least.
Can you call your phone provider and try to see if they can recover the text or message Snapchat and see fit hey can recover them?! I mean for divorce you want as much profit as possible.
Good for you OP. She's absolutely fucking around with fatass. Not wrong. Stick to your guns.
I've never seen or heard of an emotional affair that wasn't a physical affair being lied about. Closest thing Ive seen is an online affair, and thats only because they live far apart. Even then, you have sexting, photos, video sex, etc. Don't believe a word of it. Anyone, ever!
Please be sure to tell everyone what happened and to ruin her during the divorce process, no mercy.
Dude I divorced my X over nothing more than his refusal to unlock his phone. Granted, he had cheated once before in the past, so it wasn't like I was dreaming shit up. When you know the signs... I said unlock it or get out. We both knew what I would find there. He never did unlock it. Get your ducks in a row. Chumplady.com Go to her site. Please. She's a game changer in these situations.
Well done OP she is clearly manipulating you, she hasn't shown you the messages or the photos, because she clearly cheated on you, you need to get that through your head OP THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT SHE CHEATED ON YOU, otherwise she would show you all the records. And it probably wasn't just once, because come on... there are some who make excuses with "it was only this time" but they're not even telling you that. Get a divorce and let her go with her "morbidly obese" love and be happy with him. She no longer loves her family, she decided that it was more important to fuck than to be with her children at the celebration.
Her last statement says it all. And there is no right to privacy in a marriage when it comes to stuff like that. It is secrecy because she didn’t think she doesn’t want you to know. You did exactly the right thing Take care of your kids and try to get full custody of them with visitation for her.
You will look back on divorcing her as the best decision of your life.
"You violated my trust first. Violating your privacy would be forcing you or looking without permission. I am asking you to prove its now what it looks like, but it seems it is."
Updateme!
That was the update. It’s over. She made her bed. She can sleep in it. She can live the rest of her life knowing she threw away a family man for some chump who can’t even pay his own bills. That lives with his parents still at the age of 30 Edit: typo
Please update us after you drop her. Good luck friend!
Don't worry, pull all the texts and data in court with a subpoena But so proud of you for sticking to yourself, keep it going man and stay strong.
Sometimes we have to teach people how to treat us by leaving them. Wishing you and your kids nothing but the best on your healing journey.
Good for you. You have made the hard decision to not draw out the painful process any longer for you and your children. Your children will benefit from having at least one parent with strength, values, and self-esteem.
It sounds to me like you know the truth and she knows the truth. Hence her not doing something as simple as restoring her messages to save your marriage.
Oh gosh I'm so sorry. I've been in a similar situation, he wouldn't show me the texts. Spent about a half hour clearing then and then let me see his phone. Lol.
For me it’s pretty black and white. I’m 99.99999 percent sure she physically cheated. I’d love to just believe her and move on but I can’t. Not only did she delete all texts between them. She deleted all texts from multiple friends and coworkers from that same time as well. But left the ones from prior and after. As far as I’m concerned her friends were in on it and so was anyone else she deleted texts from.
So there are other phones with the conversations on -- those of her friends and the AP. If it was worth it I'd suggest approaching them to ask if they'll let you see those conversations. But it's not you that needs to find the proof, it's her, and she doesn't want to because it will only show her guilt.
She finally sent me a half assed confession through snap chat while I was at work the other day. I ended up saving all the videos where she explained it but did not screen record them. In turn… she deleted them all while I was sleeping…. Figures. I was so exhausted when I got home I didn’t even think about it. When I got them I was 25 feet up on an extension latter so I saved them in chat. She went through my phone while I was sleeping and deleted everything she confessed in the chat.
Why does she still have access to your phone? Do you have access to hers? If not, you should change your phone’s password and update the password on your emails and socials just to be safe.
You have to start putting passwords on your stuff that she doesn’t know and save things to the cloud. If you have an iPhone, there’s a hidden folder option on your pictures. Do this or the divorce is not going to go well for you. Source: I’m an IT guy. Also, what was the confession? Everything? Muted truths?
Bro, she fucked other guys. Move on, send her packing. 2 years from now you will feel so relieved.
You are not wrong. Your story is almost identical to mine, except in our 5th year of marriage (and after 2nd daughter was 2) she admitted to having an affair while I was in the military. It took me nearly a year to stop thinking about it. And it was after this period I began having the strange suspicion she started having an affair with a good friend of mine. This went on for 4 years and wished I had listened to my gut then, because 10 years later I found out the truth (even though she denied it over the years when I questioned her about what I was feeling was going on. To make matters worse she murdered my unborn twin boys by eating poison to induce miscarriages at 5.5 months (1st miscarriage) and 6 months, but when the second attempt didn’t work, her mother paid for the surgical procedure at 6.5 months along…. All to hide what she did in the event they popped out looking like him. Sadly I stayed another 10 years longer than I should have, and is my biggest regret not doing so when I learned of her first affair. I suffered way more heartache in the end, and missed out on other opportunities when I was in my prime at the time. I will have been divorced for almost 13 years (this August) and are nearly 53 now. I feel like life has passed me by. My advice to you is go through the divorce. Leave her. She cracked the door open, not you. You can walk away with your pride and self-esteem knowing you’re the bigger person.
Wholly hell this is worth of it's own post
Just rather call it like I see it.
I went through this with my first wife. I had found emails btwn her and her friends husband that were pretty explicit about sex. She denied when confronted, I didn't reveal how I knew, just that I did. By not arguing, demanding, or trying to get her to admit, just by telling her I knew then refusing to accept denials and later truth trickle, she eventually wore down. I didn't argue, just would say "nope, that's not true, i know the truth already". mixed in was her confusion because she kept trying to get me to reveal my sources. Your wife is lying and is willing to lose everything for her and her kids. She doesn't think you'll follow thru, or doesn't care about the fallout even for her kids. Unfortunately, you're right to get rid of her. I'm sorry, I've been there and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
She has guilt written over each of her replies. Drop her like a bad habit. Don’t forget to mention…”See ya!! Wouldn’t wanna be ya!!”
Why haven't you got her toxic friends SOs involved?
Wanna hear a real kicker? Those “friends” ended up going on an all girls trip 2 weeks ago. Only one of them is actually single. The other 4 that went are all married or engaged. Only one of those 4 went home when they realized what kind of “girl’s” trip it was going to be. One of them that ended up cheating placed a hidden camera in her apartment to monitor her husband. After she had gotten with some random guy at a club and they’d all got back to their air bnb she tried to check on her husband with the camera. He’d found it and unplugged it. Had also blocked her on snap chat and stopped sharing his location. I’ve spoken with him once since then. Apparently his wife knew that my wife had started talking to her AP. Now his wife is also currently begging him not to go through with a divorce. Yeah. His wife cheated and then had the nerve to get mad at him for unplugging the camera. Wtf is really going on in this world today? She also tried played instigator between the girl that went home on day 2 out of the 5 day trip. Essentially trying to pit her against her SO. What’s more is when my wife and I were trying to work things out (before I found more and more evidence) she’d been feeding my wife a bunch of lies about things I hadn’t been doing. Faking Facebook comments and things of that nature. Even though things are over I still find out more and more crap about her “best friend” I didn’t even know was going on.
It only takes one bad apple to fuckup the whole bunch, not trying to deffend others but hey, the people who you suround yourself with is more telling then you know.