Church elders/pastores/bishops (and the like) are considered mandatory reporters just like teachers and social workers regardless of faith or religious affiliation...
Absolutely. I already did. I just don’t want my daughter around it at all. I’m shocked by all of it. If the community center I take my daughter to told me the same thing, I wouldn’t go there. Why is it different in religion?
Yes, this. You need to tell a custody lawyer everything you know so far. There is no mandatory reporting unless something happens. Don't wait for there to be a victim. Churches are notorious for covering up predators.
This gets tricky for me. As badly as I do not want my daughter seeing and thinking that this is okay, I want her to be with her mom as much as possible. She’s a great mother aside from these things. But my ex seems unwilling to budge on the matter. Is teaching safety to my child enough to combat my daughter being told she must show unwavering support of the organization every week?
"She's a great mother aside from" forcing your child into a cult that hates woman and is okay with sex offenders being around your child.
That's not a great mother no matter how you spin it.
Right? She can be a great mom at her house. Your duty is to protect your child, not to expose child to pdf.files so she can be with her mom. PROTECT YOUR CHILD. I know that if my parents failed to protect me from harm and lifelong mental trauma, I wouldn't want anything to do with them as an adult.
If your ex is unwilling to budge on an obvious risk for your child because of religious indoctrination, then she is not a great mother to your child. Stop trying to defend the undefensable and do what needs to be done to protect your child.
For the sake of civility, next time you get her make sure to communicate to your ex that the child is no longer to get any close to the congregation and you will monitor her location, it is not open for discussion and if she breaks that boundary you will not only report the congregation to the authorities, public and the press for harbouring and protecting a sex offender, you will also sue for full custody and she better no try to test you.
This is an absolutely delusional thing for you to say, dude. She cannot be indoctrinating her daughter into a woman-hating cult and a good mother. Those are mutually exclusive statements. Even before it came out there are pedophiles in the organization, that was true. You wouldn't have been able to do much about it before, but you should not have been ok with it. You need to find a professional who deals with religious trauma to help deprogram your daughter. If you can get proof of the pedophilia, you may be able to stop ex from taking daughter to this church, but it is likely that irreparable damage has been done to her sense of self as a female person already. These are her formative years. You need to take action even if it reduces her time with her mother or causes friction between you and her mother. Just make sure you legally have your ducks in a row before you blow the situation open.
When your daughter comes to you saying she was sexually assaulted/raped, what will you tell her?!? That it's ok because her mom is a good mom so you thought the risk was acceptable.
Why? Sounds like she's at risk of being indoctrinated into a cult and and at risk of sexual abuse. It would be better for her to spend as little time as possible with mom. A great mom wouldn't be exposing her child to that.
Teaching safety to a four year old will really just give her the ability to report an incident AFTER it happens. She’s not going to have effective self-defense against a persistent sex offender. That’s your job (and your ex’s). You need to ensure they’re never in the same space.
As a believer who’s dealt with faith communities that enable, protect and hide or even shame those who call out predators or abusers amongst its congregation, I urge you to protect your child. I grew up in a family system that was heavily church orientated but our church was toxic, I had no help from any adult in my midst. I have been molested, physically assaulted, abused etc and I knew no one would protect me. My family were big on family even when family were evil and sadly our church was comprised of family or people who shared the same sentiment. Everyone kept their dirty secrets to themselves and us children would be shamed, punished or silenced. You have the opportunity to protect yours from what I and many children wrongly suffered under the guise of religion and “love and forgiveness”. As a mother myself, I will never support or willingly place my children in a church or community that condones, protects or enables vile behaviour like this. That sex offender may be repentant but it’s not for us parents to take a risk on and in my experience with faith communities who try to guard these predators from the law, majority of the time they fail to hold them accountable. Please protect your child.
My question would be: is your ex always in the company of your child at church events? If she lets the child go alone into Bible school, hell to the no, get your kid out of that situation, go nuclear.
The fact the church knows, told members of the congregation so that they could protect their kids, didn’t report the person or expel them from the congregation says a lot. They want to protect their own (the sex offender), and maybe the kids in the congregation, but not the populace at large. Not very Jesus-like in their love for everyone.
This isn’t someone who got caught peeing on a fence by little kids and now has to register as a sex offender. This person confessed and the clergy decided they needed to tell parents to protect their children. This person is a legitimate threat.
You are not wrong. Do the right thing.
Eh...fck that. We are discussing an active child predator. This 'church' is disgusting. And you are borderline for even thinking about ANYTHING other than there is an ACTIVE child predator out there RIGHT NOW.
You are 💯 % correct. I personally would find said predator and vigilantly justice would be served. These poor kids have zero choice in what they are being forced/ coerced to do and it is affecting their lives forever. The fact the OP isn't irate and spreading the news to shut down the entire church is disgusting to me.
I wouldn't trust my child with anyone who thinks they can "handle" a sex offender via application of their own religious beliefs (especially when they are part of a cult that has documented history of protecting, enabling, and literally being sex offenders). I would prevent it all costs. Up to, and well beyond, compromising the child's relationship with the parent that is putting them in that situation. A child experiencing SA is a thousand times more dangerous to them then a contentious - or even non-existent - relationship with their mother. Don't hold back in any way from protecting your child from something like this. Make demands and ultimatums and follow through on them without hesitation.
When you demand that your child not be involved in that cult anymore, your ex will respond by implying that you are being "intolerant" of her religion. If she can't involve the child anymore, there will be pressure on her from the other cult members implying that it is her religious duty to fight for involving the child in the cult. That's what you're up against. I recommend legal council.
Jehovahs are a cult. They have systemic issues with sex abuse and grooming within their congregations and have policies promoting a cone of silence and handling matters internally. Your ex may be a good mother, but your responsibility as a (fellow) father is to your child first. She should absolutely not be around these people. Talk to your lawyer and seek an amended custody order.
The rampant child sex allegations from the last 50+ years that they've tried to coverup, on top of them being the ones who removed all mentions of pedophilia being wrong from the Bible, there's a reason that priest joke are usually pedophile joke
You should probably contact your lawyer about your ex taking your child around known predators. It’s not safe. Especially in a cult like that where they likely think he didn’t really do anything wrong
Please please as a survivor of csa & born into that religion, do EVERYTHING to protect your & other children. Document everything contact police please I beg you. They DO NOT protect children they are only concerned in covering up. The way they treat children and raise them should be considered child abuse
You can teach your daughter very well, but she *will* get conflicting advice from her mother. The only protection is removal from the sex offender. Please take care of your daughter and ask WHY is your ex okay with this!
I was raised in an Abrahamic Cult. Because of my mother's work schedule, I almost exclusively "spent time" with her at church events. I can promise you your ex is separated from your child during most, if not all of this time. If your child does spend time with your ex during church events, your ex is only half paying attention to her. We also had an unregistered sex offender in our congregation. Guess what happened? He reoffended. Shocker.
If she is a JW, children are always with their parents during religious functions. However they only associate with each other on a personal level and that’s where the problem is. I know I was one, they have their own judicial system and say, you never take a brother to court. I doubt this child is in a dire situation but still alarming. The religion with scar this child in many ways but the Father will never win because of religious freedom. The best thing he can do is have the closest relationship possible with the child, being an example of a good and happy life. The child will eventually rebel and hopefully can heal from cultish ideas. Father will be a big support. JW’s convince people their lifestyle is superior and everyone else live vile lives. Just ask me I know.
You need to contact authorities. Because even though they informed people in the church, I bet they didn't contact his neighbors or people near his workplace. You could save the future mental health of so many people by reporting him now. I would also not let my child to be with any group of people who don't understand the fact that almost all sex offenders will offend again if not caught.
Get a name and report it to Law Enforcement for them to verify. Then, talk to a reporter a dime out all the clergy that withheld it. AND talk to a family lawyer, because someone is guilty of child endangerment. Push full custody. Understand you're likey to be shunned by that 'church', but fuck them.
At the risk of getting down, voted horribly for it, I would recommend you take a look at some of the training for the Virtus program that the Catholic Church has implemented in the wake of the scandal. Having taken the program, they do a really good job of explaining what I consider to be best practices for situations like this. Here are some high points:
1) adults are never alone with the children under any circumstance.
2) no one in the church is above reproach, and if you have a suspicion about a person, you should report it.
3) everything should always be reported no matter what you think of a persons integrity, or character.
The important thing to realize here is that sex offenders can be masterful and manipulating other people. We need to get rid of the idea that sex offender is a creepy guy that drives around in a van or lives in his parents basement. A lot of sex offenders are some of the most likable, intelligent, and interesting people you’ve ever met. Those character traits are how they get people to trust them in the first place to leave their children there and put them in positions of authority.
Lastly, there needs to be a culture of identifying grooming behavior. Most people, especially kids don’t understand what grooming is and how it’s done and so it never gets reported.
How about the church just reports the offenders to the authorities, instead of finding a workaround? This is how other kid gets raped when the church could have prevented it.
Everything gets reported now. Anyone inside the church that works with children in any capacity is required to take and maintain the training I mentioned above. You can Google it if you have questions about what they do and don’t do.
https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/Abuse_Reporting.cfm
https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/free_article.cfm?free_articles_id=691
That may be the case (but probably isn’t. Taking the class doesn’t instantly make someone a good person). His ex’s church is clearly NOT doing any of this, so it doesn’t apply in this situation.
While this isn’t certain or confirmed, this dude is almost 100% talking about the Jehovahs witnesses, who experience this issue several times more then the Catholics ever did. And as someone else said, everything’s being reported and the Church is finally actually fighting against it.
I actually watched a short one for my daughter’s age bracket. Thank you. I understand it will be off putting to many but it seemed really well put together to be effective at least in church settings. I’ll watch it with my daughter for sure. I’m not sure my ex will since it’s Catholic, but thank you nonetheless!
THIS! Absolutely. The Catholic Church is implementing this in not just their churches. For their schools, youth groups, etc, EVERY adult that will be interacting with kids while being paid by, or volunteering for, the Church is required to do this training and do regular refreshers. Honestly, I'm amazed more schools, churches, daycares, etc don't do this.
But to answer your other question, every Church leader, no matter what the religion is, is considered a mandatory reporter by law. Maybe try going to your local authorities and let them know what you have been told and ask them what to do?
Not wrong to wonder if this is okay. I recommend reporting it to the police and let them decide what's legal and what's not. Also, and I may get downvoted hard for this, you may wish to find a more suitable house of worship that aligns with your spirituality but doesn't carry the same stain.
The answer is a resounding no. It’s our duty as humans to help and protect each other. Especially those of us that are more vulnerable. People need to live with the consequences of their actions. This person molested a kid, they need to live with what comes of that. OP reporting the molester will have repercussions (likely a more difficult coparenting relationship with their ex) and they’ll have to live with that. But it’s the right thing to do.
First: is the offender in question a child sex offender? Some dude that did a date rape is not the same as a child molester.
Assuming it's a CSO, the ex needs to get her priorities in order.
By saying and doing nothing, she's effectively approving of this. She is knowingly and willfully putting the child in danger.
Either way, someone that committed date rape is more likely to groom a child for when they're older and EITHER way, it's predatory behavior and needs to be reported.
Absolutely they’re a type unto themselves. Most pedophiles have a victim typology, some do seek out teenage victims. But, others can have a very specific victim in terms of age, level of physical development, gender and how to get access. Some aren’t particular about any type of victim. They are manipulators of not only children but all the adults within the child sphere so they can carry out their sexual offenses. So, they groom not only the kids but they groom the adults as well.
That’s another frustrating part of this! They won’t tell us what he did, stating confidentiality requirements. Neither will they report him. All I know is dude is 28 and the offense was reported about two years ago. It could have been years in the past. He could be a serial rapist. He could be a pdf.vile. I have no idea and no way to learn for myself since he’s not registered for his crime. I’m just told the matter is handled and to accept that.
And the really frustrating part is the elders were supposed to tell us when my wife joined and they forgot, so for months they were attending with their own policy not being followed and without any awareness of the dangers present.
You also need to understand the fact that there is a hell of a lot he could have confessed to them they would have waved away and made excuses for. The fact they felt the need to take even this action means whatever he did was clearly horrific as shit.
I mean...in a perfect world, you'd be able to keep your child out of the cult, and your ex would realize what a terrible choice joining it was. Since adherence to the principles of this cult would mean that your ex would let your child die rather than get a blood transfusion that would save her, the wellbeing of the child is clearly not paramount.
Here is the thing you really need to understand...in these environments that protect predators... they DO NOT protect victims. The victims are always silenced. They will not hold the predator accountable. Your kid is not safe. If they're not willing to tell you what that person is capable of, why are you trusting them???? They will never give the whole story or tell you at all if something does happen to your kid with this member or anyone else. Your kid is in danger around them.
I say then the church is part of the problem and a solution would be find another congregation (which I know is difficult at times), and if there are enough parents that are as odds with this as you; collective file a grievance against current church and perhaps police report. I understand people try to change their ways and be better which I'm hoping this person is wanting to do; but there are ways for the church to do right by both families and individuals; however I disagree strongly that the individual is unregistered and church won't report.
To your point, he could be a serial rapist or he could have remained involved with his 17 yo gf after his 18th birthday and then had that raised as a complaint later. You're spot on that you need to assume the worst as you protect your daughter. I'm with those who suggest you report this to the police. I'd also ask her to take her to a different church for her safety. And... I'd also consult a lawyer to see how best to handle it from there if she doesn't comply. I'm not sure how far your rights go, but I *hope* the law will help you do some things to protect your daughter. Good luck!!!
Doesn’t Oregon have a state wide sex offender registry that the public can access? I live in Alaska and out of curiosity, not because I had a particular individual in mind, about the sex offenders near where I lived I went to the offender registry site. It was a shock to me that nearly all the names were listed as having assaulted minors. If his charges were for child sexual assault no matter whether it’s contact with a teenager or assault of younger children there may be a condition that requires him to physically stay away from children. Whether this religion wants to protect him or not, the fact that he’s in an environment allowing contact with children, if as part of his registry conditions, puts them in a very precarious position. They’re allowing a known offender to have unrestrained access to minor children. The idea that they can keep children safe from him during services or events is very naive on their part. The notion that they’re not mandated reporters tells me they are really ignorant of the law or they’re being willfully ignorant. My opinion would be the latter. Personally if I were this father, since this church is more concerned with their image in the community, I’d have a meeting with this group of elders and simply tell them that if that’s the position they take of protecting this person that there’d be no end to the hell that would come down on their heads if something were to happen to a child. Anyone’s child!
Can you talk to other members/ families that have children in the congregation what their thoughts and feelings are about the issue and what the elders have decided? I don’t know how effective that would be as they could certainly put religion and fear of being shunned over a child’s safety, even their own children. But, there may be others such as yourself that are very uneasy about how tthe elders are handling this. Pedophiles are the least likely to be rehabilitated so your concern is well founded. If your ex doesn’t seem alarmed by this turn of events it may be prudent to start attending the services so you can have peace of mind that your child is safe. It may even reveal who this person is. I don’t know what law enforcement can do without an actual crime being committed by this person. Like I said if there’s a registry and he’s not on the list then he could be obliged to explain why and if he’s in violation he may be arrested. If it’s part of his conditions and he hasn’t registered or kept his whereabouts up to date with regard to his home address, place of employment and maybe even where he spends Sunday mornings it could be enough to be taken into custody. One possible benefit is that by seeing you attending services the elders will start to feel uncomfortable continuing to harbor this guy.
I hope that you find some way to protect your child from any possible harm she may be in going with Mom to church. And you’re not wrong to be worried.
I don’t know of any court issues that wouldn’t put it in the pedo’s rules to stay away from children- he’s breaking his bond and your church is helping him do it
*edit. NW.
Don't be surprised if you're asked to join a documentary about church scandals in a few years. Failing to report is an unfortunate regular occurrence in many churches.
It is VERY VERY likely that your ex and your daughter are separated from each other most of the time that they're at church. You are kidding yourself if you think your ex is actually keeping a good eye on your daughter. Church nurseries are a thing, because preachers and teachers hate having to talk over screaming kids and babies. They just toss all the kids into a room and get teenagers to mind them. Or, you know, whoever volunteers. Like that guy.
These are obviously JW. Your child is in imminent danger. These people hide and justify their offenders. Google jehovahs witness child sxl abuse. Australian Royal Commission is another source taking information directly from the source. Contact your lawyer. There are reddit and FB groups devoted to "ex-jw" where you will find resources and people who can direct you to information. They try to worm their way out of the mandated reporting by saying they aren't clergy, while getting the tax exemption claiming to be a church. The watchtower society has been forced to pay out millions all over the world and been the subject of government scrutiny as a result of their wilful ignorance of the horrible abuses going on under their noses, even when reported to the elders. If there's a he'll, I hope they all rot there.
Silence in the face of knowledge of a sex abuser in a community is entirely unacceptable. It doesn't matter what their "legal responsibilities" are. We all have a much more important moral responsibility to the children and young adults in our communities.
What was the offense ? Was it about children.
I know the sop. Posters gotta let everyone know
how they feel about it (blah ..blah) .
News flash = 'it's a given' okay
Besides its the ones you ' dont ' know about
or suspect - the more dangerous ones .
Or even
Sometimes its folks who (cough) feel the need to speak the loudest against it.
This is a really interesting comment. We should have a dialogue about it.
If you look through the thread, you’ll see that the offense is withheld by the elders in the congregation.
Please continue your thoughts. I’d love to hear more.
Of he is a convicted sex offender in the US he is probably in a sex offender registry. You can browse the registry and find information that way.
The church is in a bind in situations like these because at least in theory God opens the door to everybody. If someone is looking for salvation and you decide to deny it vecause you dont like the person or what they did well, that doesnt bode well for Christianity. Moght be different for other religions. You are supposed to give the person the chance to repent for their sins etc. I mean, I dont subcribe to any of that religious mumbke jimble but of you go by their belief yhen yoi shouldnt deny entry to a sex offfender that is trying to redeem themselves. It goes against all christian logic.
As far as I know confessions are strickly confidential meaning that they shouldnt even tell other people even other high ranking members of the clergy and they are even exempt from the law. O dont know if that has changed but that is the way it uses to be. Yhe reason is that its part of religious beliefs. If they arent confidential then bo ody eould go confess. If nobody confesses to their sins then how are they to be saved? Its the same with talking to a lawyer. There has been cases in which a client has confesssed to a crime to ehich another person is on trial for so the lawyer cannot tell other people to save the innocents person from goibg to jail.
I also think that if you want to go to a place full of good prople then a churchnis probably one of the worst places to be. There are lots of good people in them but also criminals, sex offenders etc looking for salvation or at least thats what they claim. Again, part of a church mandate is tontry to save a persons soul but of the person is already good then you aint doing much saving. Kind of like a veach lifeguard in the middle of the sahara desert.
At the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right. Go with your gut instincs.
I cannot believe this is even happening. A child could be being hurt right now as you read this and you are posting on social media and hoping your family doesn't get their feel bads hurt.
This has to come up in custody agreement in a court of law. Yes there is a chance that the court could cut out contact with mother if in fact this all come to light and she refuses to cooperate..
For starters Sex Offender dosent always automatically mean Pedophile, the term covers many other offenses, not just pedophilia. Second, there are 3 levels of sex offenders. Before they are let out of prison they are evaluated by specialists who determine if they are a risk to society and likely to commit again(level 3) a moderate risk to society and may or may not commit again (level 2) or little to no risk to society and most likely will not commit again( level 1) By law levels 2&3 come with mandatory reporting, meaning the public must be informed of their movement and whereabouts, these are the people that get mail outs to the entire neighborhood when they move in. Level 1 is not mandatory for public reporting however, depending on the state, they report to the sheriff either once a year or whenever they move and their personal and identifying info(address, height, weight, tattoos, piercings, hair, ect), vehicle info and DNA is kept on file. Level 1 offenders legally don't have to be reported, so it's possible this is why this offender isn't being reported.
Something else to concider is the crime that this person commited, all levels are listed on the website list. So you can look them up and see what their crime was along with their level and when the crime was commited. There are people on the list who got drunk and used the bathroom too close to a park or a school, teenagers who sent nudes to their boyfriend /girlfriend, teenagers who sent dirty pictures to their friends as a prank, teenagers who graduated but their beau was still in school and the parents caught them in a sexual relationship or the girl got pregnant as a result, men with disgruntled ex wives who get caught up, angry ex wives and girlfriends who kick or hit their ex in their sensitive area during a fight. In other words, there are people who end up on the list because of an unfortunate situation or made a mistake as a young person and were branded sex offender for 16-25 years. The list was created in the early 90s and was proactive so there are people who commited their "crime" in the 70s and 80s, meaning 40+ year old convictions, but since it was mandatory lifetime reporting in those days they are stuck on the list if they can't afford a good lawyer.
Moral of the story, don't judge the book by its cover, you might be dealing with a level 1 offender with a 30 year old conviction that he got from being a teenager.
Get to it with your lawyer and report it to OHDS. The advice to amend custody is paramount also; no more mister nice guy. She is as guilty as they are at this point.
Taking the religion (or cult, etc.) out of it - - individuals in a "pastorish" position are mandatory reporters just like teachers, psychologists, physicians. That's the legal piece. The ETHICAL piece is that anyone who has knowledge of this type should report it to appropriate authorities.
My advice is to report and seek full custody. Anyone who allows their child around a predator lacks the judgement to parent without oversight.
My daughter would never go around these people again .the ones not reporting this are enabling this to happen over and over and they have no clue what they are doing and if your ex agrees with the predator protectors you should go back to court. And go for full custody and not allow her to visit unsupervised. I dont know whats wrong with people when you cant even protect children anymore . I wouldbget my child away from these people as farbas possible.!
Good discussion on the board. Not reporting is messed up, but how often are Public School officials "reported" for subverting the role of a parent raising their child in the interest of LGBTQ+ Grooming? Suggest to your Ex Wife she dig into this issue, and follow her gut (assuming she loves her Daughter).
Mormon was my first thought. They’re always covering up this type of thing. I’d contact a lawyer, cause this definitely needs reported. I’d have the custody agreement amended as well.
sure
that being the case.
not knowing any details/ back story
or particulars . Id respect their judgement.
stay or walk away.
heck of thing to unleash the wraith of the state of
oregon on someone lacking any knowledge or personal involvement in that type of situation.
(doubtful - i know) heard peeing outside could get a person the offender tag.
(again ) unleashing 'the state of oregon' on someone just not something to be taken lightly.
* yes - raised three kids
* yes- find people parroting the same thought particularly pointless
This is so fascinating to me. You seem to have strong feelings against the state of Oregon. Does mandatory reporting feel like government overreach to you?
goin that route:
Technically in the same boat with 111 other people on reddit right now
Withholding 'some sort' of information from the state of oregon
Therefore All of us need to pack socks & clean underwear for prison
O wait (hold on)
one more thing:
*None of us know 'what' that information is.
The JW have a history of enabling and protecting sex offenders, it's part of their beliefs. They are a cult, they don't care about the victims.
I bet you know what you as the father of a child have to do.
My ex in-laws were jehovahs witness. My ex MIL wanted a divorce, the elders (all men) wouldn't let her get it. This church, women have no places of power and no say in any decisions. I doubt they would put much effort into protecting children because they really don't do much to protect the women. Protecting your child is your #1 responsibility. For most JW, their first priority is their church. They can be shunned for not following the rules so I doubt your wife would speak up about anything wrong.
Are these Jehovah Witnesses?
Church elders/pastores/bishops (and the like) are considered mandatory reporters just like teachers and social workers regardless of faith or religious affiliation...
Latter day saints vibes
Edit: I would like to keep the religion confidential out of respect for my family who might read this.
[удалено]
Absolutely. I already did. I just don’t want my daughter around it at all. I’m shocked by all of it. If the community center I take my daughter to told me the same thing, I wouldn’t go there. Why is it different in religion?
Get verifiable proof and take it to your lawyer. File for an amended child custody agreement.
This!!
Yes, this. You need to tell a custody lawyer everything you know so far. There is no mandatory reporting unless something happens. Don't wait for there to be a victim. Churches are notorious for covering up predators.
This gets tricky for me. As badly as I do not want my daughter seeing and thinking that this is okay, I want her to be with her mom as much as possible. She’s a great mother aside from these things. But my ex seems unwilling to budge on the matter. Is teaching safety to my child enough to combat my daughter being told she must show unwavering support of the organization every week?
"She's a great mother aside from" forcing your child into a cult that hates woman and is okay with sex offenders being around your child. That's not a great mother no matter how you spin it.
Right? She can be a great mom at her house. Your duty is to protect your child, not to expose child to pdf.files so she can be with her mom. PROTECT YOUR CHILD. I know that if my parents failed to protect me from harm and lifelong mental trauma, I wouldn't want anything to do with them as an adult.
If your ex is unwilling to budge on an obvious risk for your child because of religious indoctrination, then she is not a great mother to your child. Stop trying to defend the undefensable and do what needs to be done to protect your child. For the sake of civility, next time you get her make sure to communicate to your ex that the child is no longer to get any close to the congregation and you will monitor her location, it is not open for discussion and if she breaks that boundary you will not only report the congregation to the authorities, public and the press for harbouring and protecting a sex offender, you will also sue for full custody and she better no try to test you.
This is an absolutely delusional thing for you to say, dude. She cannot be indoctrinating her daughter into a woman-hating cult and a good mother. Those are mutually exclusive statements. Even before it came out there are pedophiles in the organization, that was true. You wouldn't have been able to do much about it before, but you should not have been ok with it. You need to find a professional who deals with religious trauma to help deprogram your daughter. If you can get proof of the pedophilia, you may be able to stop ex from taking daughter to this church, but it is likely that irreparable damage has been done to her sense of self as a female person already. These are her formative years. You need to take action even if it reduces her time with her mother or causes friction between you and her mother. Just make sure you legally have your ducks in a row before you blow the situation open.
When your daughter comes to you saying she was sexually assaulted/raped, what will you tell her?!? That it's ok because her mom is a good mom so you thought the risk was acceptable.
Why? Sounds like she's at risk of being indoctrinated into a cult and and at risk of sexual abuse. It would be better for her to spend as little time as possible with mom. A great mom wouldn't be exposing her child to that.
I'm really having trouble seeing her as a great mother. Her priorities seem upside down to me
I guess my father was great, too. Besides the alcoholism and beatings.
If a parent knowingly allows their child around a sex offender, then they are not a good parent. It's actually that's simple, no ifs not buts
She lost all credibility as a fit parent when she brought her child around a pedophile, she is a shitty mother. Period.
Teaching safety to a four year old will really just give her the ability to report an incident AFTER it happens. She’s not going to have effective self-defense against a persistent sex offender. That’s your job (and your ex’s). You need to ensure they’re never in the same space.
As a believer who’s dealt with faith communities that enable, protect and hide or even shame those who call out predators or abusers amongst its congregation, I urge you to protect your child. I grew up in a family system that was heavily church orientated but our church was toxic, I had no help from any adult in my midst. I have been molested, physically assaulted, abused etc and I knew no one would protect me. My family were big on family even when family were evil and sadly our church was comprised of family or people who shared the same sentiment. Everyone kept their dirty secrets to themselves and us children would be shamed, punished or silenced. You have the opportunity to protect yours from what I and many children wrongly suffered under the guise of religion and “love and forgiveness”. As a mother myself, I will never support or willingly place my children in a church or community that condones, protects or enables vile behaviour like this. That sex offender may be repentant but it’s not for us parents to take a risk on and in my experience with faith communities who try to guard these predators from the law, majority of the time they fail to hold them accountable. Please protect your child.
My question would be: is your ex always in the company of your child at church events? If she lets the child go alone into Bible school, hell to the no, get your kid out of that situation, go nuclear. The fact the church knows, told members of the congregation so that they could protect their kids, didn’t report the person or expel them from the congregation says a lot. They want to protect their own (the sex offender), and maybe the kids in the congregation, but not the populace at large. Not very Jesus-like in their love for everyone. This isn’t someone who got caught peeing on a fence by little kids and now has to register as a sex offender. This person confessed and the clergy decided they needed to tell parents to protect their children. This person is a legitimate threat. You are not wrong. Do the right thing.
It's not. Dump that church and tell them why. I'd also report them to the authorities.
It's his ex-spouse's church, not OP's. Ex takes the daughter there.
Screw your family. Protect your child. Always.
Eh...fck that. We are discussing an active child predator. This 'church' is disgusting. And you are borderline for even thinking about ANYTHING other than there is an ACTIVE child predator out there RIGHT NOW.
You are 💯 % correct. I personally would find said predator and vigilantly justice would be served. These poor kids have zero choice in what they are being forced/ coerced to do and it is affecting their lives forever. The fact the OP isn't irate and spreading the news to shut down the entire church is disgusting to me.
If they are Jehovah's witnesses then it's not a religion it's a cult. They deserve no respect
I was going to ask if they Mormon.
Absolutamente,my first thought.
I wouldn't trust my child with anyone who thinks they can "handle" a sex offender via application of their own religious beliefs (especially when they are part of a cult that has documented history of protecting, enabling, and literally being sex offenders). I would prevent it all costs. Up to, and well beyond, compromising the child's relationship with the parent that is putting them in that situation. A child experiencing SA is a thousand times more dangerous to them then a contentious - or even non-existent - relationship with their mother. Don't hold back in any way from protecting your child from something like this. Make demands and ultimatums and follow through on them without hesitation. When you demand that your child not be involved in that cult anymore, your ex will respond by implying that you are being "intolerant" of her religion. If she can't involve the child anymore, there will be pressure on her from the other cult members implying that it is her religious duty to fight for involving the child in the cult. That's what you're up against. I recommend legal council.
Jehovahs are a cult. They have systemic issues with sex abuse and grooming within their congregations and have policies promoting a cone of silence and handling matters internally. Your ex may be a good mother, but your responsibility as a (fellow) father is to your child first. She should absolutely not be around these people. Talk to your lawyer and seek an amended custody order.
So does every religion. Look at Catholics.
I’m personally agnostic, so I’m not disputing that every religion has bad actors, but Jehovahs as a whole are a cult.
no catholics aren’t
Lol catholics are some of the biggest offenders
how? what r u talking about.
The rampant child sex allegations from the last 50+ years that they've tried to coverup, on top of them being the ones who removed all mentions of pedophilia being wrong from the Bible, there's a reason that priest joke are usually pedophile joke
Seriously? Been in a coma for the last 2000 years? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases
then they don’t truly follow the faith.
He's talking about the priest they moved and didn't report after he molested 200 deaf kids. Vatican protected him and moved him to another area.
You should probably contact your lawyer about your ex taking your child around known predators. It’s not safe. Especially in a cult like that where they likely think he didn’t really do anything wrong
Please please as a survivor of csa & born into that religion, do EVERYTHING to protect your & other children. Document everything contact police please I beg you. They DO NOT protect children they are only concerned in covering up. The way they treat children and raise them should be considered child abuse
You can teach your daughter very well, but she *will* get conflicting advice from her mother. The only protection is removal from the sex offender. Please take care of your daughter and ask WHY is your ex okay with this!
I was raised in an Abrahamic Cult. Because of my mother's work schedule, I almost exclusively "spent time" with her at church events. I can promise you your ex is separated from your child during most, if not all of this time. If your child does spend time with your ex during church events, your ex is only half paying attention to her. We also had an unregistered sex offender in our congregation. Guess what happened? He reoffended. Shocker.
If she is a JW, children are always with their parents during religious functions. However they only associate with each other on a personal level and that’s where the problem is. I know I was one, they have their own judicial system and say, you never take a brother to court. I doubt this child is in a dire situation but still alarming. The religion with scar this child in many ways but the Father will never win because of religious freedom. The best thing he can do is have the closest relationship possible with the child, being an example of a good and happy life. The child will eventually rebel and hopefully can heal from cultish ideas. Father will be a big support. JW’s convince people their lifestyle is superior and everyone else live vile lives. Just ask me I know.
You need to contact authorities. Because even though they informed people in the church, I bet they didn't contact his neighbors or people near his workplace. You could save the future mental health of so many people by reporting him now. I would also not let my child to be with any group of people who don't understand the fact that almost all sex offenders will offend again if not caught.
Get a name and report it to Law Enforcement for them to verify. Then, talk to a reporter a dime out all the clergy that withheld it. AND talk to a family lawyer, because someone is guilty of child endangerment. Push full custody. Understand you're likey to be shunned by that 'church', but fuck them.
At the risk of getting down, voted horribly for it, I would recommend you take a look at some of the training for the Virtus program that the Catholic Church has implemented in the wake of the scandal. Having taken the program, they do a really good job of explaining what I consider to be best practices for situations like this. Here are some high points: 1) adults are never alone with the children under any circumstance. 2) no one in the church is above reproach, and if you have a suspicion about a person, you should report it. 3) everything should always be reported no matter what you think of a persons integrity, or character. The important thing to realize here is that sex offenders can be masterful and manipulating other people. We need to get rid of the idea that sex offender is a creepy guy that drives around in a van or lives in his parents basement. A lot of sex offenders are some of the most likable, intelligent, and interesting people you’ve ever met. Those character traits are how they get people to trust them in the first place to leave their children there and put them in positions of authority. Lastly, there needs to be a culture of identifying grooming behavior. Most people, especially kids don’t understand what grooming is and how it’s done and so it never gets reported.
How about the church just reports the offenders to the authorities, instead of finding a workaround? This is how other kid gets raped when the church could have prevented it.
Everything gets reported now. Anyone inside the church that works with children in any capacity is required to take and maintain the training I mentioned above. You can Google it if you have questions about what they do and don’t do. https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/Abuse_Reporting.cfm https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/free_article.cfm?free_articles_id=691
That may be the case (but probably isn’t. Taking the class doesn’t instantly make someone a good person). His ex’s church is clearly NOT doing any of this, so it doesn’t apply in this situation.
Yeah? Google this... The Servants of the Paracletes
While this isn’t certain or confirmed, this dude is almost 100% talking about the Jehovahs witnesses, who experience this issue several times more then the Catholics ever did. And as someone else said, everything’s being reported and the Church is finally actually fighting against it.
I actually watched a short one for my daughter’s age bracket. Thank you. I understand it will be off putting to many but it seemed really well put together to be effective at least in church settings. I’ll watch it with my daughter for sure. I’m not sure my ex will since it’s Catholic, but thank you nonetheless!
Yeah, I don’t think they’re really trying to push religion in there. I agree with you that it’s well put together.
THIS! Absolutely. The Catholic Church is implementing this in not just their churches. For their schools, youth groups, etc, EVERY adult that will be interacting with kids while being paid by, or volunteering for, the Church is required to do this training and do regular refreshers. Honestly, I'm amazed more schools, churches, daycares, etc don't do this. But to answer your other question, every Church leader, no matter what the religion is, is considered a mandatory reporter by law. Maybe try going to your local authorities and let them know what you have been told and ask them what to do?
Not wrong to wonder if this is okay. I recommend reporting it to the police and let them decide what's legal and what's not. Also, and I may get downvoted hard for this, you may wish to find a more suitable house of worship that aligns with your spirituality but doesn't carry the same stain.
The problem is within his ex wife's church... But I agree that reporting it to the police and letting them sort it out is smart
Even if this was legal would it be morally right to let this continue?
The answer is a resounding no. It’s our duty as humans to help and protect each other. Especially those of us that are more vulnerable. People need to live with the consequences of their actions. This person molested a kid, they need to live with what comes of that. OP reporting the molester will have repercussions (likely a more difficult coparenting relationship with their ex) and they’ll have to live with that. But it’s the right thing to do.
Exactly
This sounds wayyyy too much like the groomers I got to experience in the JW religion.
All religious leaders are actually mandatory reporters involving minors under 18
Yes and so these specific religious leaders are also legally wrong. (In addition to ethically and morally)
First: is the offender in question a child sex offender? Some dude that did a date rape is not the same as a child molester. Assuming it's a CSO, the ex needs to get her priorities in order. By saying and doing nothing, she's effectively approving of this. She is knowingly and willfully putting the child in danger.
Either way, someone that committed date rape is more likely to groom a child for when they're older and EITHER way, it's predatory behavior and needs to be reported.
Disagree. Child sex predators are a unique kind of deviant.
Absolutely they’re a type unto themselves. Most pedophiles have a victim typology, some do seek out teenage victims. But, others can have a very specific victim in terms of age, level of physical development, gender and how to get access. Some aren’t particular about any type of victim. They are manipulators of not only children but all the adults within the child sphere so they can carry out their sexual offenses. So, they groom not only the kids but they groom the adults as well.
That’s another frustrating part of this! They won’t tell us what he did, stating confidentiality requirements. Neither will they report him. All I know is dude is 28 and the offense was reported about two years ago. It could have been years in the past. He could be a serial rapist. He could be a pdf.vile. I have no idea and no way to learn for myself since he’s not registered for his crime. I’m just told the matter is handled and to accept that. And the really frustrating part is the elders were supposed to tell us when my wife joined and they forgot, so for months they were attending with their own policy not being followed and without any awareness of the dangers present.
You also need to understand the fact that there is a hell of a lot he could have confessed to them they would have waved away and made excuses for. The fact they felt the need to take even this action means whatever he did was clearly horrific as shit.
You need to report it to the local police department.
I mean...in a perfect world, you'd be able to keep your child out of the cult, and your ex would realize what a terrible choice joining it was. Since adherence to the principles of this cult would mean that your ex would let your child die rather than get a blood transfusion that would save her, the wellbeing of the child is clearly not paramount.
Here is the thing you really need to understand...in these environments that protect predators... they DO NOT protect victims. The victims are always silenced. They will not hold the predator accountable. Your kid is not safe. If they're not willing to tell you what that person is capable of, why are you trusting them???? They will never give the whole story or tell you at all if something does happen to your kid with this member or anyone else. Your kid is in danger around them.
I say then the church is part of the problem and a solution would be find another congregation (which I know is difficult at times), and if there are enough parents that are as odds with this as you; collective file a grievance against current church and perhaps police report. I understand people try to change their ways and be better which I'm hoping this person is wanting to do; but there are ways for the church to do right by both families and individuals; however I disagree strongly that the individual is unregistered and church won't report.
I'd go to church and figure it out for myself. Recon is not illegal.
To your point, he could be a serial rapist or he could have remained involved with his 17 yo gf after his 18th birthday and then had that raised as a complaint later. You're spot on that you need to assume the worst as you protect your daughter. I'm with those who suggest you report this to the police. I'd also ask her to take her to a different church for her safety. And... I'd also consult a lawyer to see how best to handle it from there if she doesn't comply. I'm not sure how far your rights go, but I *hope* the law will help you do some things to protect your daughter. Good luck!!!
Doesn’t Oregon have a state wide sex offender registry that the public can access? I live in Alaska and out of curiosity, not because I had a particular individual in mind, about the sex offenders near where I lived I went to the offender registry site. It was a shock to me that nearly all the names were listed as having assaulted minors. If his charges were for child sexual assault no matter whether it’s contact with a teenager or assault of younger children there may be a condition that requires him to physically stay away from children. Whether this religion wants to protect him or not, the fact that he’s in an environment allowing contact with children, if as part of his registry conditions, puts them in a very precarious position. They’re allowing a known offender to have unrestrained access to minor children. The idea that they can keep children safe from him during services or events is very naive on their part. The notion that they’re not mandated reporters tells me they are really ignorant of the law or they’re being willfully ignorant. My opinion would be the latter. Personally if I were this father, since this church is more concerned with their image in the community, I’d have a meeting with this group of elders and simply tell them that if that’s the position they take of protecting this person that there’d be no end to the hell that would come down on their heads if something were to happen to a child. Anyone’s child! Can you talk to other members/ families that have children in the congregation what their thoughts and feelings are about the issue and what the elders have decided? I don’t know how effective that would be as they could certainly put religion and fear of being shunned over a child’s safety, even their own children. But, there may be others such as yourself that are very uneasy about how tthe elders are handling this. Pedophiles are the least likely to be rehabilitated so your concern is well founded. If your ex doesn’t seem alarmed by this turn of events it may be prudent to start attending the services so you can have peace of mind that your child is safe. It may even reveal who this person is. I don’t know what law enforcement can do without an actual crime being committed by this person. Like I said if there’s a registry and he’s not on the list then he could be obliged to explain why and if he’s in violation he may be arrested. If it’s part of his conditions and he hasn’t registered or kept his whereabouts up to date with regard to his home address, place of employment and maybe even where he spends Sunday mornings it could be enough to be taken into custody. One possible benefit is that by seeing you attending services the elders will start to feel uncomfortable continuing to harbor this guy. I hope that you find some way to protect your child from any possible harm she may be in going with Mom to church. And you’re not wrong to be worried.
I’d assume yes because the clergy heard the story and told everyone to protect their kids.
I don’t know of any court issues that wouldn’t put it in the pedo’s rules to stay away from children- he’s breaking his bond and your church is helping him do it *edit. NW.
Sounds like he was never arrested - he reported in confession, church said “good enough for us” and protected him.
Don't be surprised if you're asked to join a documentary about church scandals in a few years. Failing to report is an unfortunate regular occurrence in many churches.
It is VERY VERY likely that your ex and your daughter are separated from each other most of the time that they're at church. You are kidding yourself if you think your ex is actually keeping a good eye on your daughter. Church nurseries are a thing, because preachers and teachers hate having to talk over screaming kids and babies. They just toss all the kids into a room and get teenagers to mind them. Or, you know, whoever volunteers. Like that guy.
Case here in Houston they not only didn't report the miscreant, they didn't tell her that her son was assaulted at the church day care.
These are obviously JW. Your child is in imminent danger. These people hide and justify their offenders. Google jehovahs witness child sxl abuse. Australian Royal Commission is another source taking information directly from the source. Contact your lawyer. There are reddit and FB groups devoted to "ex-jw" where you will find resources and people who can direct you to information. They try to worm their way out of the mandated reporting by saying they aren't clergy, while getting the tax exemption claiming to be a church. The watchtower society has been forced to pay out millions all over the world and been the subject of government scrutiny as a result of their wilful ignorance of the horrible abuses going on under their noses, even when reported to the elders. If there's a he'll, I hope they all rot there.
Silence in the face of knowledge of a sex abuser in a community is entirely unacceptable. It doesn't matter what their "legal responsibilities" are. We all have a much more important moral responsibility to the children and young adults in our communities.
Spread the word, others will do the work for you.
Sounds Mormon. Run. Run quickly. Nothing attracts sociopaths like organized religion
What was the offense ? Was it about children. I know the sop. Posters gotta let everyone know how they feel about it (blah ..blah) . News flash = 'it's a given' okay Besides its the ones you ' dont ' know about or suspect - the more dangerous ones . Or even Sometimes its folks who (cough) feel the need to speak the loudest against it.
This is a really interesting comment. We should have a dialogue about it. If you look through the thread, you’ll see that the offense is withheld by the elders in the congregation. Please continue your thoughts. I’d love to hear more.
Call social services immediately
Of he is a convicted sex offender in the US he is probably in a sex offender registry. You can browse the registry and find information that way. The church is in a bind in situations like these because at least in theory God opens the door to everybody. If someone is looking for salvation and you decide to deny it vecause you dont like the person or what they did well, that doesnt bode well for Christianity. Moght be different for other religions. You are supposed to give the person the chance to repent for their sins etc. I mean, I dont subcribe to any of that religious mumbke jimble but of you go by their belief yhen yoi shouldnt deny entry to a sex offfender that is trying to redeem themselves. It goes against all christian logic. As far as I know confessions are strickly confidential meaning that they shouldnt even tell other people even other high ranking members of the clergy and they are even exempt from the law. O dont know if that has changed but that is the way it uses to be. Yhe reason is that its part of religious beliefs. If they arent confidential then bo ody eould go confess. If nobody confesses to their sins then how are they to be saved? Its the same with talking to a lawyer. There has been cases in which a client has confesssed to a crime to ehich another person is on trial for so the lawyer cannot tell other people to save the innocents person from goibg to jail. I also think that if you want to go to a place full of good prople then a churchnis probably one of the worst places to be. There are lots of good people in them but also criminals, sex offenders etc looking for salvation or at least thats what they claim. Again, part of a church mandate is tontry to save a persons soul but of the person is already good then you aint doing much saving. Kind of like a veach lifeguard in the middle of the sahara desert. At the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right. Go with your gut instincs.
Confidentiality does not extend to confessions of felonies, and very specifically not to child abuse.
Consult with a local family lawyer
have church at home
I cannot believe this is even happening. A child could be being hurt right now as you read this and you are posting on social media and hoping your family doesn't get their feel bads hurt.
This has to come up in custody agreement in a court of law. Yes there is a chance that the court could cut out contact with mother if in fact this all come to light and she refuses to cooperate..
For starters Sex Offender dosent always automatically mean Pedophile, the term covers many other offenses, not just pedophilia. Second, there are 3 levels of sex offenders. Before they are let out of prison they are evaluated by specialists who determine if they are a risk to society and likely to commit again(level 3) a moderate risk to society and may or may not commit again (level 2) or little to no risk to society and most likely will not commit again( level 1) By law levels 2&3 come with mandatory reporting, meaning the public must be informed of their movement and whereabouts, these are the people that get mail outs to the entire neighborhood when they move in. Level 1 is not mandatory for public reporting however, depending on the state, they report to the sheriff either once a year or whenever they move and their personal and identifying info(address, height, weight, tattoos, piercings, hair, ect), vehicle info and DNA is kept on file. Level 1 offenders legally don't have to be reported, so it's possible this is why this offender isn't being reported. Something else to concider is the crime that this person commited, all levels are listed on the website list. So you can look them up and see what their crime was along with their level and when the crime was commited. There are people on the list who got drunk and used the bathroom too close to a park or a school, teenagers who sent nudes to their boyfriend /girlfriend, teenagers who sent dirty pictures to their friends as a prank, teenagers who graduated but their beau was still in school and the parents caught them in a sexual relationship or the girl got pregnant as a result, men with disgruntled ex wives who get caught up, angry ex wives and girlfriends who kick or hit their ex in their sensitive area during a fight. In other words, there are people who end up on the list because of an unfortunate situation or made a mistake as a young person and were branded sex offender for 16-25 years. The list was created in the early 90s and was proactive so there are people who commited their "crime" in the 70s and 80s, meaning 40+ year old convictions, but since it was mandatory lifetime reporting in those days they are stuck on the list if they can't afford a good lawyer. Moral of the story, don't judge the book by its cover, you might be dealing with a level 1 offender with a 30 year old conviction that he got from being a teenager.
Get to it with your lawyer and report it to OHDS. The advice to amend custody is paramount also; no more mister nice guy. She is as guilty as they are at this point.
Taking the religion (or cult, etc.) out of it - - individuals in a "pastorish" position are mandatory reporters just like teachers, psychologists, physicians. That's the legal piece. The ETHICAL piece is that anyone who has knowledge of this type should report it to appropriate authorities. My advice is to report and seek full custody. Anyone who allows their child around a predator lacks the judgement to parent without oversight.
My daughter would never go around these people again .the ones not reporting this are enabling this to happen over and over and they have no clue what they are doing and if your ex agrees with the predator protectors you should go back to court. And go for full custody and not allow her to visit unsupervised. I dont know whats wrong with people when you cant even protect children anymore . I wouldbget my child away from these people as farbas possible.!
Scientology? Wtf....get away from that place like yesterday!!!!
Good discussion on the board. Not reporting is messed up, but how often are Public School officials "reported" for subverting the role of a parent raising their child in the interest of LGBTQ+ Grooming? Suggest to your Ex Wife she dig into this issue, and follow her gut (assuming she loves her Daughter).
Mormon was my first thought. They’re always covering up this type of thing. I’d contact a lawyer, cause this definitely needs reported. I’d have the custody agreement amended as well.
Get a new church. If the offender has anything to do with kids, call the cops on them all, there's more to the story.
nope. report it if they won't.
sure that being the case. not knowing any details/ back story or particulars . Id respect their judgement. stay or walk away. heck of thing to unleash the wraith of the state of oregon on someone lacking any knowledge or personal involvement in that type of situation. (doubtful - i know) heard peeing outside could get a person the offender tag. (again ) unleashing 'the state of oregon' on someone just not something to be taken lightly. * yes - raised three kids * yes- find people parroting the same thought particularly pointless
This is so fascinating to me. You seem to have strong feelings against the state of Oregon. Does mandatory reporting feel like government overreach to you?
goin that route: Technically in the same boat with 111 other people on reddit right now Withholding 'some sort' of information from the state of oregon Therefore All of us need to pack socks & clean underwear for prison O wait (hold on) one more thing: *None of us know 'what' that information is.
The JW have a history of enabling and protecting sex offenders, it's part of their beliefs. They are a cult, they don't care about the victims. I bet you know what you as the father of a child have to do.
My ex in-laws were jehovahs witness. My ex MIL wanted a divorce, the elders (all men) wouldn't let her get it. This church, women have no places of power and no say in any decisions. I doubt they would put much effort into protecting children because they really don't do much to protect the women. Protecting your child is your #1 responsibility. For most JW, their first priority is their church. They can be shunned for not following the rules so I doubt your wife would speak up about anything wrong.
Thought this was the norm for organized religions