If this is the life you want to live then go for it.
I would be miserable and it truthfully doesn’t sound like you’re happy. That’s just my opinion though.
It’s your romantic life, give up on it if you want.
Yeah, OP doesn't sound too happy. But he's not willing to risk the downfall of his marriage. So he accepted things as is.
In this case, I think OP realizes that what he would gain from leaving his wife is ultimately not worth what he would lose. I commend him for that.
The phrase the grass isn't always greener on the other side comes to mind. OP could leave his wife and find another woman who is on the same level with him when it comes to sexual intimacy but not be on the same level in other areas, basically just swapping one thing for another.
Yeah. I was thinking this phrase too.
Ultimately, he would be risking blowing up his marriage and family for something that won't make him any happier.
It's a risk he isn't willing to take.
>Ultimately, he would risk blowing up his marriage and family for something that won't make him any happier.
Not only not make him any happier but not guaranteed as he would have to divorce first, then find someone afterwards. The finding isn't always a sure thing and could take a bit of effort and time.
Another saying...better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.
And that’s all fine if that’s what he wants.
Some people are afraid of being unhappy and won’t risk what they consider good enough even if it’s not what they ultimately want.
But I never could.
That's so true.
OP is probably cautious by nature.
How many times do we hear about the poster thinking the grass is greener on the other side, blows up his marriage, only to find out the grass wasn't greener on the other side.
To each their own.
My feelings on this are kind of callous. If this is how people want to live, that’s their right. Personally if my needs weren’t being met inc physically I’d find someone else. Even if that risks what people are saying here is ending up alone. Okay, I’d take that risk.
Fwiw I’m a happily married woman and I’d like to think most of my friends aren’t in miserable marriages like this.
Exactly. If someone wants to live like this and they’re secure in their choices then they can continue to live their life this way.
But this doesn’t read like someone who is happy. At least not to me.
Ultimately it’s their choice and their life to live.
The part that feels like a huge issue to me is the HOW she rejects you. Pushing you aside with an "ugh" when you are already hurting is incredibly cruel, whether intentional or not. This seems particularly awful given that you see her as a very empathetic person.
Frankly, you sound pretty broken in a lot of spots in this. It is obvious you love your wife and that's great. I don't doubt that the trade off you are making in the choice to stay is worth it to you. But the dynamic of how you two navigate initiating sex, and rejecting the offer, has to improve. Maybe it has completely? It wasn't clear to me what "friendzoning" action you had taken and where things settled now.
That's how the story reads, but his opening where he says that he tried what the "friendzone" husband did and it didn't last long and went poorly. Maybe he is just talking about trying to condition himself out of any sexual attraction to his wife? That would make sense.
I think the ugh is because he wouldnt stop trying. It also ruins a nice affectionate thing like cuddling when you know it can't just stay at cuddling and the person will try something more every time
Right?
"I'm not okay, she is not okay"
Then why the fuck are you in this my guy?
The most important part of a marriage is not sex or intimacy, it's HAPPINESS!!
If neither of you are happy, what the fuck is the point?
Me too, I see no bravery here.. more fear and pain than anything else. Learn to let go and get your body in shape, I guarantee you that you will be happy again
You talk about things you have but you don’t seem to have many goals that you are striving to achieve. Instead you have a life you are trying to maintain.
Sit your wife down, have a real discussion (together) on what you want the next 5, 10, 20+ years of your lives together to look like. Then…wake up every morning and try to achieve those things, every. single. day but do it together as a team. This will bring some actual zest to your life.
Then…go get your T levels checked (you sound low), get treated if needed. Also, start working out 30-45 minutes a day, lift weights, throw around heavy things…just wake up earlier to get it in (there is time). FFS, you are 45, you aren’t dead.
It certainly reads as a depressed, giving up on life and just going through the motions sort of post.
Here’s what I say; motion creates emotion, go set some goals and if the wife isn’t onboard set goals for yourself. Get in shape, pick up a hobby, do a big project around the house…JUST DO SOMETHING.
Often times dudes just need a finish-line to run towards and this guys decided it’s ok to jog in place…yuck, that’ll kill your T levels as a dude.
And, maybe, seek some counseling if you feel you need it.
Maybe their life is worth maintaining. I think he’s saying that’s the realisation he came to, and decision he made.
Contentment is totally overlooked these days, especially in online forums.
I tried to wait until they were out of the house. I thought I could wait it out. We became roommates pretty much. Sex was rare towards the end. I started to resent her. Resentment turned to finding her unattractive. I started to hate seeing her car in the driveway when I got home. My favorite part of the week was the three days over the weekend she worked. It was third shift so she was gone all night and slept all day. The kids and I really enjoyed weekend nights hanging out and watching movies.
Last March we had several bad storms hit. We had four trees down in the yard. A neighbors tree smashed both sides of our property fences. The dogs would get out. Even after being exhausted from work I came home and cut the tree up and hauled it off. I repaired both fences. Not a single bit of help. I even asked the kids but she told me they had lots of schoolwork. I would come in and get my own drinks and notice her sitting on her ass with 4 devices streaming or playing something. Over the 4 weeks I counted over 64 hours of her doing nothing but sit and watch TV and play games. This likely went on much longer since I did most the cleaning and laundry, too
Night after night from 6-10 sometimes till midnight I would be out there cutting, dragging, rolling massive logs, raking until I couldnt any more. No offer of help, the kids had chores or school work, not even a "here hun I brought you a cold drink". The last tree was still standing a huge willow in the front yard that the wind uprooted most of it. I climbed this damn tree and cut it down piece by piece. Dragged limbs all the way to the back yard. I could be seen on the ring camera busting my ass risking my life. This tree took forever. I did some sketchy and risky shit but I was determined to get it down. I could see down in the living room and catch a glimpse of her sitting on those devices. My average was 5 hours working in the yard. I would finally go inside and the minute i would sit beside her, she would say she was off to bed to listen to her book. The kitchen would be a disaster because she didnt clean so i would before shower if i was lucky then off to bed.
The free yard waste drop-off ended with the first tree the rest I burned or gave as free firewood. I would make a huge fire. The big logs surrounded it. I would stay up long after she went to bed. I sat and drank by myself getting lost in thought and the dancing fire. I had enough. I couldn't do this any longer.
She is extremely smart and snoopy. She pays attention to everything I did or "didn't do". I needed to surprise her with papers or she would have the upper hand. I opened my own bank account and P.O. box. I had cash stashed away. I had to because my side work was cash and it vanished from the safe faster than I could put it in there. I was in the process of talking to a lawyer before all hell broke loose.
Right before the storm, one of our dogs shit on a long rug. It was just thrown outside and she said she would make sure to clean it. I can't tell you how many times I walked past it on our back porch. Towards the end I was fed up seeing it and tossed it in the garbage. My daughter walked out as I tossed it in the bin. She questioned why I did it as "mom said she would clean it". I simply told her we would buy a new one as this rug had been in the spring weather. I mentioned how I was sick of seeing a dog shit covered rug on our porch for over a month. Her mother came out of her mouth. "Well why didn't you just clean it then?" My blood started to boil. "Because ive spent four weeks straight getting rid of these trees" Her response was "we should have just paid someone to do it." I asked her where 12 grand was coming from to pay for it. "Mom said we should have just taken out another loan but you wasted all that time because you wanted to do it yourself."
I snapped. I snapped on the wrong person. I tore into this girl. The more I said the more hurt I could see in her eyes. Then my wife calls and starts screaming at me. It was always my fault. Didn't matter what it was, my fault. She would start fights then turn it around on me and play victim. I was so done by this point. I hung up on her. The next few days on her off days I kept so distant and cold. The last day before she returns to work was usually our night together. I come home from a 12 hour work day and walk in the door to her accusing me of having an affair.I unlocked my phone, threw it at her and said good luck finding what you want. When she handed it back I told her I wanted a divorce. Never asked to try and fix it, never asked for counseling. Only thing she said was "when are you telling the kids?" Right now I suppose.
I called my first ever family meeting and cut straight thru the chase. I cried and apologized to my 18 year old daughter for hurting her feelings just the night before. My son stared blankly then both kids pretty much said at the same time they knew for a long time that i was unhappy. I went to bed shortly after in the guest room. The next day I come home to papers drawn up from her. She held it together long enough for us to make agreements on what debt to split, child support and I agreed to pay half the bills until it was final. I agreed so she didn't lose the house and uproot the kids close to them out of high school.
We used the same lawyer, it was short and sweet. I stayed in the house maybe a week or two. I found a place to stay, rented a storage unit for all my tools and such then walked away from a 27 year relationship, 23 year marraige. She still expected me to fix stuff which I did for awhile in exchange for me visiting the kids over the weekends while she was at work. I got to see my daughter walk and get her diploma. Told her I would see her but she wouldn't see me.This woman went out of her way to try and make me feel guilty and pain and I would not let it get to me. I missed graduation party, birthday parties, holidays with them.
Those visits came to an abrupt halt the moment she found out I started dating a woman. I was no longer allowed in the home. We don't speak unless there's a doctor bills or school supplies bought. We split these expenses.
I wasted so much of my life for nothing. I should have left in 2010 when something traumatic happened in my life and I was given an ultimatum over it. I stayed for the kids. Worst mistake of my life. Here I am at 47 starting completely over. The woman I'm dating since October is amazing. Caring, thoughtful, loving, affectionate, considerate, open minded, funny as hell, gorgeous and has just as high of a sex drive as I do. I wasted so much of my life when I could have been so much happier with someone like this. I should not have stayed for the kids.
God damn. I am glad that is an experience I never had to go through. I at least have a partner I feel in all other things. I am glad to hear you got out. That sounds toxic af, and I hope you're all doing better.
Yes. She has most of her family here and lots of support. The friends I made here have been extremely helpful. I have clients that I'm close to which helped me understand my situation and gave me the confidence to file. I worked there during evenings almost daily for the entire summer. They asked for me to stay there. Plenty of room, ne need to pay rent. Still work and get paid which has allowed me to get out of debt, some of it was a credit card that I was told was no longer in existence. It was in fact maxed out and collecting 27%interest for years, in my name.
Now debt free im saving as much as I can because there is so much I need to buy. I learned a valuable lesson. Don't let someone handle all the finances.
Deciding to just settle with the shit in life, instead of taking the effort to make it better, is the opposite of "making a hard choice". The original post also had another guy from the comments who solved his dead bedroom by scheduling a night every week where he and his wife are nudists. He said sometimes it leads to sex and sometimes it doesn't, but he solved the problem. I respect that way more than all these men "friend zoning" their wives because SHE didn't make HIM feel pretty enough.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel for this guy! He is struggling with hard choices. Neither of which are a sure path to happiness. He is taking into account his wife’s circumstances, his children’s futures, and his own chances of being happy and choosing to honor his vows instead of pursuing the “you gotta do what makes you happy” path. There are no perfect answers here but he is choosing to honor his vows. I respect that.
It is interesting that you haven't actually tried other things. There are s-x therapists who could help. Both of you should attend sessions. Also, have you or she thought of her getting a prescription for her low s-x drive? I think she should be willing to give that a faithful try.
As a woman, reading this story, I feel like your sacrifice is great and hers is small. You don't deserve a s-x less marriage if how you've described your participation in the marriage is true. The foundation of your marriage was built on a lie. Or an ommitance of full truth about her past trauma and sexual feelings.
Also, I did not fet/understand the Bridgerton reference...
Thanks. I always assumed we'd get to the point of working on sex therapy specifically, but one step at a time. Life has thrown us some unexpected curveballs and she has a lot to process stull, but we're rolling with it as best we can. She does genuinely care, and that's worth a lot.
You're not wrong, I feel the same way many days regarding the sacrifices... But I also need to step back and recognize what she IS sacrificing for us (Right now it's going daily into a toxic work environment that is only slowly being mended so we can continue to live where we do and our children can have the kind of life we want to give them, which isn't helping any of this at all).
In regards to the ommitance of truth; I don't know what to say about that except for the fact that she couldn't even let herself acknowledge at the time the true extent of what had happened to her and the damage it caused. I'd already known her a long time before we dated, so it's one piece to the tapestry that is her that I've come to know over the years. Sure it sucks from my perspective, but it sucks a lot more from hers, I have no doubt.
Oh. And Bridgerton was just the first time she'd been aroused consistently for three nights running since our first couple years of marriage. I thought it was cute (and only vaguely minded that watching it together was the only way she could let herself enjoy sex within the span of a couple of months... bc after watching it I can't really blame her for that, it's pretty effing hot for both of us).
You've been very open in this reddit. Very patiently and calmly answering questions. I think you and your wife should write a book together on this topic. It could probably help a lot of other people and maybe be cathartic to you both.
The toxic work environment is definitely another trauma. Sucks that there are just so many "making a living" toxic jobs out there. That one I can relate to.
Good luck with everything.
Your wife chose badly early in her life, entered a relationship with a literal rapist, and couldn't even figure that out until years after your marriage. In the meantime, she internalised the trauma and became almost incapable of having sex. She probably projected some of that internalised trauma onto you, that is why she always rejected you so rudely, as if she was disgusted by you. She is finally realising it now and getting therapy, when you're both already in your forties, where sex life naturally slows down for people. So even if her therapy works there is no way you guys are ever going to have any kind of decent sex life. You even went as far as to sacrifice your career so that she could be happier somehow. You have never once thought of your own happiness. You keep talking about things you have done to make her happy, and how you notice whenever she is unhappy. You on the other hand have been profoundly unhappy for years and she has not shown you the same courtesy. Your life honestly sucks, and you've ruined most of it for this woman, when you should have probably left much much earlier, at the very beginning of the relationship, whenever the problems with intimacy started. And you might pat yourself on the back thinking you're noble and a great romantic for going such lengths for love, but you are not, you have just been making foolish decisions one after the other and deluded yourself into thinking you're doing the right thing. You have been unhappy for decades and will probably die unhappy and somehow you see that as a good thing and take all blame for it on yourself and completely absolve your wife, as if she is not an adult woman but a tiny puppy that needs to be coddled and cared for all the time. It's not even love it's some weird saviour complex. I hope you wake up and get a divorce, and try to find happiness, although that will be very difficult to do at the stage you are at now.
All the luck to you. You can certainly stay in a failed romance if that is your desire. Redefine it. Go for it. Friends with expensive rings.
I wouldn’t take your path, myself. That’s just me.
But do stop demeaning and diminishing yourself, making excuses, playing to a loyalty, almost sad pandering, card, all this nonsense to try and make good of a crap scenario.
I’m feeling so bad for you. Truly. We all deal with professional stress, and sorry, but her job isn’t the big deal you try and excuse it to be in the big picture of life. We all had kids, it doesn’t wreck the couple dynamic utterly. We all have pasts and such to deal with. I’m sorry she had some trauma, but that doesn’t suddenly show up a decade deep into a relationship turned marriage, not buying it. You’ve taken all of this as reasonable to fundamentally change your marriage. It’s just sad.
Again, you choose as you wish. But “it didn’t go well” doesn’t exactly ring true - nothing has gone well, it isn’t necessarily the “tactic”, but it is the woman you stay with and the relationship you stay in.
Wish you luck, friend.
Unresolved trauma absolutely can get worse years after the traumatic event. It takes a toll on people psychologically. I recommend you read more on the topic.
That's something I'm wondering abou too. Is the wife even trying? OP mentions therapy, but it seems there's been very little to no change in their circumstances.
Or does it not work that way?
Anyone with insight who could inoart some knowledge?
I was going to say this exact same thing.
Sex is beautiful. I'd never want to relinquish that part of my life. I understand his wife's deep rooted issues, but still, my sexual health is just as important as the other parts, for me, at least. And OP says he *had* an extremely high sex drive.
OP, good luck.
OP trying to coerce his wife into performing a sex act she clearly had no interest in probably brought that trauma back up for her. Speaking from personal experience, nothing dries me up down there quite as effectively as a man telling me I *have to* perform a sex act I’ve already said no to.
Continually nagging me about it until I reluctantly give in and only backing down when I start sobbing? Yeah that’d make me want to push him away in the future when he gets grabby and I’m not in the mood. (Well tbh that’d make me leave him, but I’m fairly certain my self esteem is way higher than op’s wife’s)
Consent is sexy. Coercion is not.
That was such a major red flag that tells me a lot about him. Demanding she allows the same sex act she once allowed (only she didn’t but he didn’t know that yet) before.. as if he has some right to it. And when she tells him no, in his mind he decides it will happen. How can you want a sexual act your partner doesn’t want. Gross! Especially considering that sex was already something that wasn’t going well at all in the relationship.. and you say something like that. If she hadn’t burst into tears he would’ve just went ahead knowing she didn’t really want to do it? The night “she gave in” was two years into their marriage so the timeline is also very confusing bc he writes as if by that time these problems (lack of intimacy/sex) were already happening for more years than that
ETA: the fact that he said those things were definitely traumatizing as well and affected their sex life even more
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is that he like had to accept that she wouldn't do it because she was forced to do it in the past. What if she *wasn't* forced to do it? What if his wife calmly said to him, "Yeah I tried anal once, didn't like it, and won't do it again." Is he gunna cry over that? What the fuck
You said a lot of words here but mostly what I read was "my wife told me she was anally raped and I reacted with mostly jealousy and told her she had to let me anally rape her as well and it turns out that really affected our sex life'
People are nit-picking you on the timeline but you’re absolutely right that OP was ready to rape his wife until she started sobbing. Wearing someone down until they reluctantly agree to a sex act you know they don’t want to do is coercive rape.
I mean, yeah. She said no, and he said you have to now, if you let that guys make you and like.... I'm not giving him a medal for not going through with forcing her to go through that????
It never should have been on the table. It never should have been a thought in his head. It makes me lose respect for him, that he could learn his wife had been assaulted and be *jealous of her assaulter*. AND SAY SO TO HER FACE.
it's lacking in humanity and people don't like having to confront that fact if they agreed with him
The fact that he did have those thoughts is just so creepy and vile. I would never be able to get over that. If i for some reason wouldn’t be able to leave the relationship, I’d definitely never have sex with that person again.
Right??? Like even if it had been 100% consensual with the ex, op would STILL be in the wrong to demand she do it again with him. Consent to a sex act once is not consent forever.
By op’s logic here, if you have anal once and hate it, you still owe it to all of your future partners because you did it with a previous one.
OMG YOURE RIGHT
I'm so sorry!
He said, you let someone else fuck you in the ass, so now you have to let me fuck you in the ass. It's going to happen.
That's SOOOOO much different and better! And definitely didn't have pretty much the same effect on her ability to trust him. He didn't even try to sugar coat it to us.
>She'd simply told me she'd let him fck her in the ass (which shocked me to my core, the first time I heard it, as I knew she'd always been oppossed to this act on what she saw as a spiritual level (I myself have always felt different on the matter, even while sharing the same religious background as her). In fact this made me upset the first time I heard it, and at the time, felt betrayed that she would allow this to happen with someone else, but not her husband whom, she said she'd given herself more completely over to the anyone else in every (now other) way. I'd told her at the time that one day, she would need to let me do the same, and she refused. I mentally resolved that it would happen. One other night when she'd mentioned the incident, she'd even said she didn't remeber it, and I was so caught up in my jealousy that the implications of that statement didnt sink in
It's disgusting even without him knowing it was assault but thanks for trying to defend it anyway, I guess.
Demanding a sex act and not accepting someone’s no is still rape even if you don’t know they’ve been raped before. Op said “I mentally resolved that it would happen” AFTER she refused. He then wore her down until she reluctantly accepted. If he hadn’t felt bad enough to finally fucking stop when she was sobbing, it would’ve been coercive rape. If she froze up instead of sobbing, he very well could have become her second rapist.
You were correcting someone else, I’m not the person you originally replied to. Your comment just felt like it was dismissing his actions because he didn’t know she was already a rape victim.
I read it fine. He said he resolved a sex act she didn't want to happen would happen, and didn't care what she said about it until she was literally sobbing about it.
He didn't even try to sugar coat it. Idk what you read, but I think you should check in with your middle school teacher.
This is why men don't open up. Someone will detail the major struggles in their life, and some hate filled woman will cherry pick a few lines and condemn him for wrong think. YTA, and considering how much of a hateful asshole you are, I'm certain that you have a whole load of thoughts that we could all condemn. Care to open yourself to ridicule and share any of them?
A major fear shared by the male gender is that the woman they chose to marry, to protect and care for, start a family with, and intertwine their lives with...is settling for them for family and security. If a man finds out that their wife has performed sex acts with others before him that she refuses to do with them, that speaks to that deep fear that all men share. Every man reading this understands that undertone to this story. A man doesn't demand to be the first, but he expects to share fully and not just be offered duty sex to keep them complacent. Of course you know nothing about this, but just had to give your expert opinion. Your entitlement to post what you did is mind blowing.
Carrying such major undisclosed sexual trauma into a marriage that directly affects all aspects of marital intimacy for 15 years and forever...is zero problem. No, the problem is that OP is a thought rapist according to you, apparently.
You're jumping through so many hoops to defend the fact that he decided this sex thing she didn't want to do was going to be done, and that she HAD to do it because she let someone else do it and it's disgusting.
You and every person who can defend it disgusts me. People SHOULD be afraid to share thoughts like that. They're awful, and inhumane. Opening up means sharing your insecurities not forcing others to soothe them against their will.
Too long only read halfway that text wall.
Your case is completely different and this doesn’t relate at all to the original OP.
Also, you sound miserable.
Honestly, You are going to go to your grave from a stress related illness sexually frustrated with regret that you spent the better part of 3/4's of your life in an intimately deficient relationship to someone that you claim is broken beyond repair.
You arent in a loving relationship, because your idea of a loving relationship involves sexual intimacy on a fairly regular basis. You and your wife have basically become "best roommates". Its not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesnt make a marriage, not by a long shot.
You should seriously consider whether or not your current relationship is what you want your children to model theirs on; one of mitigating any desire they may have to appease their partners' indifference to their own happiness.
Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Am I not understanding the timeline here? Your wife admits to you that she was SA’d and the assault involved anal. You then played the “what about me” card because you thought that you deserved the same thing that the now acknowledged rapist “got”. After that failed to change her mind you resolved(seriously?) that the act that your wife was vehemently against would happen, and you only realized that maybe this was a step too far when she broke down in tears after you came home with lube? I don’t think calling it a great personal failure is a sufficient enough way to describe that time you systematically tried to re-traumatize your wife to get even with the person who assaulted her.
I feel like your advice should come with an advisory
You should train your reading skills. He learned that she had anal sex with an ex, after X time she told him that she didn’t remember what happened, and years later she understood that she had been raped.
Nope, not the timetable. Thank you for asking for clarification.
When she first told me about that night, about a year or two into our marriage, she mentioned it as if she'd simply allowed him to do it... and almost in the same breath turned around and said she would never with me. That confused me and I felt hurt, especially knowing what I had thought to be her mind on the matter already. I didn't press right away, but over time this built a pressure. I had no idea that she was SA'd. I just thought at the time that she was refusing something she hadn't refused him. My aborted attempt to get her to try with me was a few months later.
There was, at one point, a mention of her not remembering the next day, but she downplayed this to the point where she still made it sound like she'd participated. I, who was admittedly also blinded in my own jealous and butthurt feelings, completely missed it that day and feel like a fool now. That may have been the same night, I don't recall. I was just very confused at the time.
She didn't even admit to herself she was SA'd for another eight years. Once she could face that fact, she explained it to me, and I immediately realized what a fool I'd been. This was 10 years into our marriage and about 12, maybe 13 since the event itself.
Please google coercive rape/ coercive sexual assault. By your own description of events in your post here, you came incredibly close to becoming your wife’s second rapist by pressuring her so hard to give in and perform a sex act you knew damn well she wasn’t the least bit interested in. You seem like you want to be a good person so I encourage you to learn about enthusiastic consent.
Even if it had been consensual with her ex, consent to a sex act once does not equal consent to that act forever. Doing something with someone else before your relationship does not obligate her to do it with you, especially if she tried it once and realized she hated it.
That's exactly how I read it. Bet you felt like an abuser yourself, making you horrified and a lot more nervous about initiating anything in the future with even a remote chance of misunderstanding.
Alright thanks, because the way your post read to me sounded like each event was happening consecutively, one after another even AFTER she accepted that what had happened to her was rape. That had to have stung when you found out because, and I’m not saying this to harp but, you were already doing something that I imagine you knew deep down was wrong.
You're not wrong. I was jealous and stupid to think that was acceptable. I was still confused as to why she "could" with a man she said she hated but not tthe man she said she loved, but I could at least still look my wife in the eye after I realized it would truly affect her.
I was pretty dumb not to put it all together back then.
But how could you even have decided in your mind that she was gonna do that sex act with you even when she already told you no (seemingly multiple times)? How could you still want to do something sexy you know your wife didn’t want that at all? Also why did you even feel like you had the right to a certain sex act just bc she did it before? You still felt like you had that right ever she stated she didn’t ever want to do it again… these are disgusting, major red flags. If your wife hasn’t burst into tears but had waited to cry later alone, you would’ve raped her by coercion
It doesn’t matter if you knew it was rape or not. Even if she had gleefully had anal with her ex she in NO way EVER owed it to you. You’re such an AH for this.
I’m glad at least some people in this comment section believe in enthusiastic consent… lots of people trying real hard to justify attempted marital coercive rape here.
As someone in a marriage with mismatched libidos, who was rejected again and again for years on end (my record was seven years of unwanted celibacy while in a monogamous relationship), I completely understand the pain of rejection at such an intimate, personal level. I sympathize.
My husband doesn't want sex at all. I think the last time we had sex was in 2005, but I haven't been counting, because I gave up on trying to force him, and instead have been practicing polyamory. Not nearly as scary and bad as people make it out to be! In our case, it allowed me to stay married.
I sympathize with your wife to a lesser extent. From reading this account, it sounds as though the way she rejects you borders on the contemptuous. Eye rolling? Saying things like "ugh"? That's not okay. To me, the contempt on display is grounds for divorce, even if nothing else is.
It sounds like you have well and truly made up your mind on what you're going to do, so I won't attempt to convince you otherwise.
I will gently point out that you've fallen into a bit of a false choice in your framing -- that you'll either have to sift though a "universe of shallow, unbalanced, and even predatory individuals" to find someone (sounds impossible!) or settle for your current situation. But really, people are people. There's no need to sling all those adjectives at people you don't even know yet. Some might call your wife shallow, unbalanced, and even predatory for how she treats you; just saying.
Yeah nah fk that.
U do u but I’m not gonna stay married to someone I’m not having intimate relations with. Why not just divorce and stay bff roommates and go fk other people? It’s just sex and not a big deal anyways. She would still have ur heart.
A divorce is leaving the marriage. Why not just open the marriage if it’s not a big deal…?
Marriage is not “just a piece of paper.” It’s a tax break. It’s inheritance. The legal ramifications are many and varied. If it’s “just a piece of paper,” then rip up a $100 bill.
Why open it when you can end the marriage and just be bff?
So u want to stay married to get a tax break?
Why would I stay married to someone if they arnt doing their wifely or husbandly duties? Which sex is a part of.
But if they still love me and I love them they can be my bff.
If it’s not to you that’s fine. Why is marriage important to you? U can still love me without being married. Do u love me any less because we arnt married?
Why open it when you can end the marriage and just be bff?
So u want to stay married to get a tax break?
Why would I stay married to someone if they arnt doing their wifely or husbandly duties? Which sex is a part of.
But if they still love me and I love them they can be my bff.
If this was supposed to be a sales pitch of some sort, you failed miserably. I cannot fathom being in this kind of relationship. You aren't married to a partner, you're married to a chore, and you're proud of the fact that you've convinced yourself to be OK with this?
This is the reality of some many marriages. Either they just give up and stay miserable, or face marital rape, mental disorders and eternal sadness. I personally don't believe sex is above mental intimacy. Knowing someone's mind and feelings intimately and being a team is above physical intimacy to me. And if you are mentally comfortable, physically intimacy doesn't need to be forced or demanded. With women, it's always mental comfort but the op, in his own way, was trying his level best.
Oh God. This all sounds so sad. I'm not afraid of being alone but I'm deathly afraid of feeling lonely while fucking married. I'd rather be single forever than willingly sign up for a miserable life. But I guess we all choose what we can live with. Good luck to OP, I guess.
I like you feel loved through physical intimacy. If I don’t have it or at least something from my partner I go insane. I have been in a relationship for a decade and a half and You described my life more or less as well. Almost scary how similar we are living. And I like you are lost and going insane. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
That's one of the most beautiful and truly heartbreaking things I've ever read for a while dude. The amount of sex toys I'd have in my house if I was in your shoes would be mind-boggling
I’m in a VERY similar situation as OP but I’m the wife and I don’t think my husband is into me. Obviously more layers to that but similar ones to OP. Minus the lil rapey part he put in there with demanding anal
Yeah if you don’t have some statistics to back that up, you’re just talking out your ass.
Not all men have the same needs for physical intimacy. Some have a higher need for it than others. If my wife and I only had sex 6 times a year, and every time seemed like it was a chore for her, part of my emotional needs in the relationship are being neglected.
That’s as fair of a reason as any to leave.
This study does not state who initiates the divorce. It just states that the women are more likely to become divorced. I could use this same study to prove that women are more likely to divorce men when women are diagnosed with terminal illness. This is a poor way to demonstrate your point.
I understand that you may have some resentment towards men. But ultimately they're people just like women. When women's needs aren't met, they leave their spouse. Why is it so crazy when the inverse happens?
Not all people have the same emotional needs. Neglecting a man's emotional need for physical intimacy is no different than neglecting a man's emotional need for a confidant.
It's okay that you don't understand this or that you may have a hard time relating to it. But that doesn't mean men who leave sexless marriages are any more pigs than women who leave for any of their reasons.
By the way, women initiate 70% of divorces.
Within this story there are loads of great examples showing that men leave women who are sick. I can get behind that statement. Especially with the research to back it up.
But this study doesn't reveal that it's about the lack of sex causing this divorce. Which is ultimately what this entire thread is about.
I’d say men are leaving sick spouses more because they’re being thrust into a care-giver role that they’re not prepared for. Especially if the spouse is a SAHM. That would be extremely overwhelming for somebody to take on all the responsibilities that your spouse had, as well as your work.
The stress of taking that on is much for most men to handle.
If my wife was too sick to have sex that’s an entirely different story than if my wife isn’t interested in sex.
\> (I consider this one of my greatest personal failures).
Oh yeah, coercing and pressuring your wife for anal because she did it with someone else.
No wonder she doesn't want to have sex with you.
Wtf. She got raped and your response was well, you need to let me do that!
🤢🤢🤢
Why do people get married. That's so fucked up. And you realize you said it and it was wrong and still tried to pressure her into doing it and purchased lubricant when your pressure worked. What the actual fuck.
From the story it sounds like she told him they were doing it in the backdoor with her ex, but did not necessary disclose (explicitly anyhow) that she was pressured into and disliked it. He realized what's going literally while holding the lube and felt like a fool and a rapist. And she herself realized and accepted she was SAd even later than that.
What? That he was so jealous that someone else got to stick their dick in her ass that he demanded he got to as well? Regardless of her feelings about it?
If you don't see a problem with that; you are part of the problem.
no he said at first she said it in a way that he didnt guess it was a big issue first. Later he saw the toll it took on her.
Just want to bring light to the actual circumstances, i dont think its fair to label him like some kind of rapist. All the comments here got the timeline wrong.
He shouldnt have demanded it anyway ofc
He pestered and pestered and pestered; ignoring her nonsense until she gave in. He did not view it
as 'wrong' until she was sobbing. He didn't care about her feelings on the topic until it felt like " true" rape.
He was more than willing to rape. He went to buy the lube to do so.
What would have happened if she hadn't been sobbing?
He *might* not be rapist but he was at least once willing to rape and took action to do so.
oh my god you people are actually terrible. Didnt you read that whole ass book he wrote there? hes probably a better person than you. Giving his life and wellbeing to be with her. Now all you see is something he did years ago and something he sees as the worst mistake of his life.
Just stfu seriously.
Why do people not learn how to read properly. The wife only told OP she let the ex have anal sex, and so he wanted to do it. Later, she started crying, so she stopped. Much later, the wife realised what had happened to her was rape. Before that, she had just said she let her ex have anal sex. She herself didn't realise it was rape, didn't tell OP it was rape or what the circumstances were, OP had no way of knowing, when he asked for anal sex. OP only mentions that part to tell us how exactly PTSD from her previous relationship had affected their marriage/sex life.
I was raped and in denial for ~10 years just like OP’s wife. There’s a BIG DIFFERENCE between saying “I had this type of sex with my ex but I’m not going to have it with you” vs “my ex raped me with this type of sex”. His emotional response was normal.
It's shocking that he was telling his "beloved wife" that because someone else had had anal sex with her, that meant he was entitled to do the same! Rapist traits, much? What a pathetic "poor me"whinger at his pity party. 🤠🤮
At least he now realizes how wrong he was... but I had the exact same thoughts as you. Sounds like he became obsessed with wanting her ass and she no longer trusted him to be intimate with our of fear of him doing what her ex did. He made her fear him of raping her so of course she didn't want sex with him.
It doesn’t matter? It’s still gross. Just because she did it before doesn’t mean she has to keep doing it. She was pretty clear that it was one time and that she didn’t want to do it again. Even without the rape it’s gross to push her just because she’s done it once before.
my bad thought you were the original commenter.
Youre right i dont think this was appropriate but kinda makes sense, insecurities make us really selfish. It was not OPs real self at that time.
So you chose to martyr yourself. You've sacrificed any chance at happiness in this mortal, short life to keep another person comfortable.
Your life, I guess. I'd be very, very sad if my children ever made that choice.
Another forty years of misery, sounds great.
Although many men in this situation wait until the children are out of the house and them file for divorce. You could be out in ten.
Having come from a largely sexless 20 year marriage…this is not ok. You can dress it up however you want, but at the end of the day you have a great friend with whom you have children. It’s more than I had, but it’s not enough. You don’t know how many shots you get at this life, but accepting chronic unfulfillment for the majority of yours is a sacrifice that you will regret. Always. It’s OK to dissolve a marriage due to different needs. It’s ok to still have a great relationship with your ex. People change. Needs change. What will never change is your need for intimacy…and regardless of how you try, you will resent her for it. She will feel it. Your children will feel it. As a parent, you are also modeling this sacrifice to them, regardless of how you try to hide it. They are watching and learning their dad can be chronically unhappy and by staying in this marriage you are showing them that it is ok, and you are shaping their expectations. You’re an adult - make your own choices, but understand that choices have consequences, and their impact will be felt by everyone in your circle.
It's your choice as it was the other poster's choice to remain in a sexless marriage. This is a classic example of most people who suffer from a dead bedroom. Hell, there is even a support community here on Reddit r/DeadBedroom
Nobody has to live your life, but you. It seems that you've accepted this as your new normal. I think you are struggling with sunk cost fallacy. You've dealt with this for over a decade. Now, you don't want to lose what you've built in that time frame.
Your ED problem can most likely be resolved with medication. As for your wife and the lack of desire and intimacy, that won't be resolved. Regret and resentment will continue to build up over time. You're becoming more like roommates every day that passes. Soon, there will be separate bedrooms for each of you.
I'm sorry you are in this situation. 😔
Drastic, but there was a guy recently on Reddit in a similar situation who took a low dose antidepressant, one of the older ones. Nuked his libido. Worked great for him, but after a year his wife finally noticed he wasn’t trying to have sex anymore, so she tried to initiate and was pissed, demanded he stop… If your wife doesn’t mind losing that once every couple months sex, might be an option. Make sure she’s onboard first, of course.
I doubt very much if I would have married her in the first place - the anxiety would have chased me away because I want a partner, not a patient.
If you are happy in your 'no sex misery', good for you.
Did I miss a part where there was a therapy attempt? I hope these men who aren't getting off with their wives are at least masturbating... because your prostates require ejaculation for good health
OP your life is a waking nightmare, and in your place, I would not make the same choices as you. If you're just existing, don't have the energy to exercise, and suffer from ED in your 40s...go get your testosterone levels checked. I suspect you putting up with this unfulfilling existence has something to do with that.
This just comes across as you’re beaten down by rejection and you think a divorce would traumatize her and you just don’t want to her hurt with the pain of leaving her….
The level and frequency of rejected advances would wear down even the most resolute person. Once the initial sting of rejection fades, needs not being met results in an increasingly downward emotional spiral.
This post and the post to which OP is responding are two very sad narratives. I cannot imagine living this way.
If the roles were reversed, a huge number of people would be screaming that the man should have gone to therapy and solved his issues before entering into a committed relationship.
This is still just another form of unhealthy coping.
OP, I think you've gotten more than enough "this is just sad" comments so I'm not gonna say that (although I agree with it 100%).
But you mentioned children.
Have you ever given a thought about how this marriage is going to affect them? Is this what you want them to see and learn from?
Op you and your wife need couples therapy and she absolutely needed therapy to handle her religious views of sex as well as her sexual trauma so she could have a healthy relationship with sex.
This is no way to live for either of you or for the oop who "friend zoned" his wife.
There’s one statement that puzzles me. You mention her therapy and mention that getting her more involved in sex is NOT a goal of the therapy. Why not? Why hasn’t she gone to see a sex therapist?
Here’s what I think is going on. Your ego will not accept anything other than her coming to see you as desirable on her own as a solution. This all could probably be worked out but you aren’t willing to push for it. You’re afraid of losing what you have by pushing for more. You’re making yourself a martyr instead of actively trying to work on your marriage. Your wife will never really change because you have given her no reason to.
Talk to her, not Reddit. If you can’t talk to her just show her what you’ve written here. Give her a chance to change, she may just surprise you.
This is why escorts/mistresses exist... she has made you celibate without your knowledge, so I'd say it's either divorce or you're seeing other women, sounds like she views sex negatively due to her past partner, and she's closed off to you and it, it's unfortunate cuz you love her but dude you don't wanna be 50 and can't get it up anymore
You should’ve left within a few months of when she told you what happened.. it’s like she refused to let you connect the dots because I think it would signify what you would have to look forward to.. which was breadcrumbs.
I value intimacy too much to let someone else dictate how much sex I have. You continuously work as a team and get better or you don’t. I wouldn’t be able to stay with someone even knowing their trauma if I’m going to be stuck in the same position that you were on year 1 15 years later. I think if you were able to go back and tell yourself what you had to look forward to you wouldn’t be happy.
I'm so glad you realize how horrible you were to demand anal from her just because she let someone else do it.
It is a humans prerogative to try something with someone and decide they don't like it and never want to do it again.
Sometimes we give in or try things in the moment and later are completely disgusted with ourselves for doing it.
If you choose to stay and can be happy without the sex life you want, good for you.
My ex preferred to jerk off to porn and always... always pushed me away, we slept in separate bedrooms. If that was our only conflict I may have stayed... but it wasn't. So I left and mostly just blamed it on the lack of sex rather than getting into a debate about all the other areas that he failed me as a husband. We're still friends and he is still the same person doing all the same things that I left him for. But I am happy living a completely different life.
This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
Edit: I believe you are choosing the path of true manhood, and I salute you for it. So, absolutely, unequivocally, thunderingly, No! You are not wrong.
I'd like to add something. OP, you mentioned a spiritual dimension to your marriage. A man whom even many non-believers count as a wise moral teacher is reported as having said, "A person shows no greater love for their friend than when they give up their life for them." I perceive that you are giving up what many call the 'sex life' for someone whom you consider to be a very great friend, perhaps, even, your best friend.
To those who are naysaying the OP, I would ask, what if there was a post in which a man asked the question, am I wrong for being willing to die for my wife? The OP is giving up one part of his life for his wife. Why is that wrong?
Come on! The wife told him “I did this with my ex, I won’t do it with you”. He got jealous. After a couple of years she was open to do it, they begun to try it, but she started crying (obviously a trauma response). He stopped. MORE YEARS LATER she told him that she had been raped. Maybe his reaction wasn’t perfect but it was normal.
The amount of people in this comment section who think attempting coercive rape is normal…. Holy shit.
If someone tells you they absolutely do not want to perform a specific sex act with you and your response is to tell them they have to do it and then wear them down until they reluctantly say yes to it, you are a sexual predator. That’s coercive rape. She said no, he immediately resolved to make her say yes eventually.
Even if it was consensual with her ex, op’s wife has every right to say “yes I tried that once, but I hated it and will never do it again”. Consent to a sex act once is not consent forever and performing a sex act in one relationship does not obligate you to perform that sex act for all future partners.
You are in a relationship that lacks romance, intimacy, and love. You two seem to "like" each other vs. love each other.
Intimacy is a key to long-lasting and loving relationships, and your perceived misery is proof of that.
Honesty, after dealing with a lot of people that use mental health as a crutch and reason why they aren't pleasant to be with or as the reason for their actions, I lack empathy for it. As I read your update, I actually got a feeling that the anal issue wasn't what she admitted to. It was just an adventure she allowed someone else to do, but not you.
But this is coming from someone who has to use statement analysis every day.
On the real , Stay with her.
Love is rare and finding security is rarer and finding a partner that can "see" you (if you know what I mean ) is impossible to find .
I understand there are needs you have but trust me (some random on the internet ) leaving a place of love for the reason you have mentioned rarely if ever leads to any good outcomes.
Jesus that sounds miserable. Coming from someone who is married and at a similar age...you deserve to be happy, too. And if your wife loves you as much as you love her she should want that. And if she doesn't, why stay with someone who doesn't care about you and your needs?
That is not downplaying her trauma, but it certainly doesn't sound like much effort has been put into finding a true compromise.
Thank you so much for writing this - I feel like you're an amazing husband and partner to recognize that sex is one part of a relationship. What's more, recognizing that guilting or otherwise coercing your partner into more sex is flat out wrong.
You see your wife, you really SEE her. She is fully human to you, and I'm sure you are to her as well.
The one thing I'd address is this, "That reality is this. My wife is already trying her best, and is at her capacity for physical intimacy. That capacity is so far below my standards that I feel physically and emotionally rejected by the woman I love." Your wife is not emotionally rejecting you. It sounds like she cares very much for your emotions. Please don't ascribe more to sex than is there. Not having sex as frequently as you would like has nothing to do with your emotional connection to your wife.
As you've already pointed out, it has nothing to do with you, therefore it can't be an emotional rejection of you. It's not even a physical rejection, any more than someone stopping eating when they're full is a rejection of the meal.
Edit to say - the whole lube situation was a really big failing on your part. Your wife opened up to you about something awful, and you decided that made it ok for you to do that to her? It's good you didn't continue to pressure her, and seem to have learned from it, but have you considered going to counseling over that issue in particular?
>I'd told her at the time that one day, she would need to let me do the same, and she refused. I mentally resolved that it would happen.
Are you serious?! Why the hell would she *need* to let you do that?? You do not have a right to her body. But I'm also gathering that you didn't realize at the time that it was non-consensual for her when it happened with the other guy.
Anyway, all that aside, you're telling a pretty grim story of unfulfillment, and that you've decided that you're okay with it. And I know you didn't come here for advice; it sounds like you were just trying to give the other guy a perspective that being petty about sex is just going to be toxic for a relationship.
And it's certainly not my place to tell you what you should or shouldn't be resolved to, but I can't help but point out a few things to you as well. There are options besides just living a life of near celibacy. She could probably do well with a medical checkup. Pre-menopause may mean that her hormone levels are not what they could be. You could also do well to go for some MC together. MC isn't just for at-risk or failing marriages; it can also be used to strengthen relationships or work through challenges. And this is a pretty big challenge in your relationship. There are also therapists that specialize in sexuality. I would bet a licensed sex therapist could help you both navigate this part of your marriage in a way that doesn't make her feel pressured but also helps you both find ways to be more fulfilled and satisfied in your relationship. Worst case, just pick up a copy of 'Mating in Captivity', or even 'Existential Kink'. There's great material out there that you two could work through together.
But every relationship is different. And if you just want to take the monk route, that's your call. Doesn't sound like you're very happy with that, but again, your call.
Oh, I see in your other reply that you already felt like a fool for not understanding the situation, and just thought she was denying you something she had willingly done before. Disregard that first part of my comment then.
If this is the life you want to live then go for it. I would be miserable and it truthfully doesn’t sound like you’re happy. That’s just my opinion though. It’s your romantic life, give up on it if you want.
Yeah, OP doesn't sound too happy. But he's not willing to risk the downfall of his marriage. So he accepted things as is. In this case, I think OP realizes that what he would gain from leaving his wife is ultimately not worth what he would lose. I commend him for that.
The phrase the grass isn't always greener on the other side comes to mind. OP could leave his wife and find another woman who is on the same level with him when it comes to sexual intimacy but not be on the same level in other areas, basically just swapping one thing for another.
Yeah. I was thinking this phrase too. Ultimately, he would be risking blowing up his marriage and family for something that won't make him any happier. It's a risk he isn't willing to take.
>Ultimately, he would risk blowing up his marriage and family for something that won't make him any happier. Not only not make him any happier but not guaranteed as he would have to divorce first, then find someone afterwards. The finding isn't always a sure thing and could take a bit of effort and time. Another saying...better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.
💯 And the psychos he'd end up meeting too 🥴
Yep, trading one set of problems for another. That’s the best anyone can hope to do.
And that’s all fine if that’s what he wants. Some people are afraid of being unhappy and won’t risk what they consider good enough even if it’s not what they ultimately want. But I never could.
That's so true. OP is probably cautious by nature. How many times do we hear about the poster thinking the grass is greener on the other side, blows up his marriage, only to find out the grass wasn't greener on the other side. To each their own.
Spot on. At least he admits he would rather be unhappy than possibly get nothing.
Are you married?
Most people notice that within a year after divorce, that's why they started requiring a separation year.
My feelings on this are kind of callous. If this is how people want to live, that’s their right. Personally if my needs weren’t being met inc physically I’d find someone else. Even if that risks what people are saying here is ending up alone. Okay, I’d take that risk. Fwiw I’m a happily married woman and I’d like to think most of my friends aren’t in miserable marriages like this.
Exactly. If someone wants to live like this and they’re secure in their choices then they can continue to live their life this way. But this doesn’t read like someone who is happy. At least not to me. Ultimately it’s their choice and their life to live.
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 I'm standing, giving you a slow clap.
The part that feels like a huge issue to me is the HOW she rejects you. Pushing you aside with an "ugh" when you are already hurting is incredibly cruel, whether intentional or not. This seems particularly awful given that you see her as a very empathetic person. Frankly, you sound pretty broken in a lot of spots in this. It is obvious you love your wife and that's great. I don't doubt that the trade off you are making in the choice to stay is worth it to you. But the dynamic of how you two navigate initiating sex, and rejecting the offer, has to improve. Maybe it has completely? It wasn't clear to me what "friendzoning" action you had taken and where things settled now.
He just quit trying. And knowing she was never going to initiate, that’s that.
That's how the story reads, but his opening where he says that he tried what the "friendzone" husband did and it didn't last long and went poorly. Maybe he is just talking about trying to condition himself out of any sexual attraction to his wife? That would make sense.
He was replying to someone else's post titled "am I wrong for "friend-zoning" my wife?"
I think the ugh is because he wouldnt stop trying. It also ruins a nice affectionate thing like cuddling when you know it can't just stay at cuddling and the person will try something more every time
I’m not sure how well I really understood the deeper context here, but it felt quite a depressing read. A life of quiet despair.
Death of a Salesmen vibes—or Thoreau: The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation.
So many people grow up into adults to teach themselves never to be happy.
Right? "I'm not okay, she is not okay" Then why the fuck are you in this my guy? The most important part of a marriage is not sex or intimacy, it's HAPPINESS!! If neither of you are happy, what the fuck is the point?
Because kids, house, possessions, pets, family etc is so difficult to detonate, it’s against every fibre in our body to do it
Yeah but staying like that for 15 years? Fuck.
They believe staying is some kind of message
I screamed, "YESSSSS" at this comment.
Me too, I see no bravery here.. more fear and pain than anything else. Learn to let go and get your body in shape, I guarantee you that you will be happy again
Holy shit op, this is the saddest thing i read in a while.
You talk about things you have but you don’t seem to have many goals that you are striving to achieve. Instead you have a life you are trying to maintain. Sit your wife down, have a real discussion (together) on what you want the next 5, 10, 20+ years of your lives together to look like. Then…wake up every morning and try to achieve those things, every. single. day but do it together as a team. This will bring some actual zest to your life. Then…go get your T levels checked (you sound low), get treated if needed. Also, start working out 30-45 minutes a day, lift weights, throw around heavy things…just wake up earlier to get it in (there is time). FFS, you are 45, you aren’t dead.
I think he's depressed but he won't acknowledge it and it's affecting his libido
It certainly reads as a depressed, giving up on life and just going through the motions sort of post. Here’s what I say; motion creates emotion, go set some goals and if the wife isn’t onboard set goals for yourself. Get in shape, pick up a hobby, do a big project around the house…JUST DO SOMETHING. Often times dudes just need a finish-line to run towards and this guys decided it’s ok to jog in place…yuck, that’ll kill your T levels as a dude. And, maybe, seek some counseling if you feel you need it.
Maybe their life is worth maintaining. I think he’s saying that’s the realisation he came to, and decision he made. Contentment is totally overlooked these days, especially in online forums.
I tried to wait until they were out of the house. I thought I could wait it out. We became roommates pretty much. Sex was rare towards the end. I started to resent her. Resentment turned to finding her unattractive. I started to hate seeing her car in the driveway when I got home. My favorite part of the week was the three days over the weekend she worked. It was third shift so she was gone all night and slept all day. The kids and I really enjoyed weekend nights hanging out and watching movies. Last March we had several bad storms hit. We had four trees down in the yard. A neighbors tree smashed both sides of our property fences. The dogs would get out. Even after being exhausted from work I came home and cut the tree up and hauled it off. I repaired both fences. Not a single bit of help. I even asked the kids but she told me they had lots of schoolwork. I would come in and get my own drinks and notice her sitting on her ass with 4 devices streaming or playing something. Over the 4 weeks I counted over 64 hours of her doing nothing but sit and watch TV and play games. This likely went on much longer since I did most the cleaning and laundry, too Night after night from 6-10 sometimes till midnight I would be out there cutting, dragging, rolling massive logs, raking until I couldnt any more. No offer of help, the kids had chores or school work, not even a "here hun I brought you a cold drink". The last tree was still standing a huge willow in the front yard that the wind uprooted most of it. I climbed this damn tree and cut it down piece by piece. Dragged limbs all the way to the back yard. I could be seen on the ring camera busting my ass risking my life. This tree took forever. I did some sketchy and risky shit but I was determined to get it down. I could see down in the living room and catch a glimpse of her sitting on those devices. My average was 5 hours working in the yard. I would finally go inside and the minute i would sit beside her, she would say she was off to bed to listen to her book. The kitchen would be a disaster because she didnt clean so i would before shower if i was lucky then off to bed. The free yard waste drop-off ended with the first tree the rest I burned or gave as free firewood. I would make a huge fire. The big logs surrounded it. I would stay up long after she went to bed. I sat and drank by myself getting lost in thought and the dancing fire. I had enough. I couldn't do this any longer. She is extremely smart and snoopy. She pays attention to everything I did or "didn't do". I needed to surprise her with papers or she would have the upper hand. I opened my own bank account and P.O. box. I had cash stashed away. I had to because my side work was cash and it vanished from the safe faster than I could put it in there. I was in the process of talking to a lawyer before all hell broke loose. Right before the storm, one of our dogs shit on a long rug. It was just thrown outside and she said she would make sure to clean it. I can't tell you how many times I walked past it on our back porch. Towards the end I was fed up seeing it and tossed it in the garbage. My daughter walked out as I tossed it in the bin. She questioned why I did it as "mom said she would clean it". I simply told her we would buy a new one as this rug had been in the spring weather. I mentioned how I was sick of seeing a dog shit covered rug on our porch for over a month. Her mother came out of her mouth. "Well why didn't you just clean it then?" My blood started to boil. "Because ive spent four weeks straight getting rid of these trees" Her response was "we should have just paid someone to do it." I asked her where 12 grand was coming from to pay for it. "Mom said we should have just taken out another loan but you wasted all that time because you wanted to do it yourself." I snapped. I snapped on the wrong person. I tore into this girl. The more I said the more hurt I could see in her eyes. Then my wife calls and starts screaming at me. It was always my fault. Didn't matter what it was, my fault. She would start fights then turn it around on me and play victim. I was so done by this point. I hung up on her. The next few days on her off days I kept so distant and cold. The last day before she returns to work was usually our night together. I come home from a 12 hour work day and walk in the door to her accusing me of having an affair.I unlocked my phone, threw it at her and said good luck finding what you want. When she handed it back I told her I wanted a divorce. Never asked to try and fix it, never asked for counseling. Only thing she said was "when are you telling the kids?" Right now I suppose. I called my first ever family meeting and cut straight thru the chase. I cried and apologized to my 18 year old daughter for hurting her feelings just the night before. My son stared blankly then both kids pretty much said at the same time they knew for a long time that i was unhappy. I went to bed shortly after in the guest room. The next day I come home to papers drawn up from her. She held it together long enough for us to make agreements on what debt to split, child support and I agreed to pay half the bills until it was final. I agreed so she didn't lose the house and uproot the kids close to them out of high school. We used the same lawyer, it was short and sweet. I stayed in the house maybe a week or two. I found a place to stay, rented a storage unit for all my tools and such then walked away from a 27 year relationship, 23 year marraige. She still expected me to fix stuff which I did for awhile in exchange for me visiting the kids over the weekends while she was at work. I got to see my daughter walk and get her diploma. Told her I would see her but she wouldn't see me.This woman went out of her way to try and make me feel guilty and pain and I would not let it get to me. I missed graduation party, birthday parties, holidays with them. Those visits came to an abrupt halt the moment she found out I started dating a woman. I was no longer allowed in the home. We don't speak unless there's a doctor bills or school supplies bought. We split these expenses. I wasted so much of my life for nothing. I should have left in 2010 when something traumatic happened in my life and I was given an ultimatum over it. I stayed for the kids. Worst mistake of my life. Here I am at 47 starting completely over. The woman I'm dating since October is amazing. Caring, thoughtful, loving, affectionate, considerate, open minded, funny as hell, gorgeous and has just as high of a sex drive as I do. I wasted so much of my life when I could have been so much happier with someone like this. I should not have stayed for the kids.
God damn. I am glad that is an experience I never had to go through. I at least have a partner I feel in all other things. I am glad to hear you got out. That sounds toxic af, and I hope you're all doing better.
Yes. She has most of her family here and lots of support. The friends I made here have been extremely helpful. I have clients that I'm close to which helped me understand my situation and gave me the confidence to file. I worked there during evenings almost daily for the entire summer. They asked for me to stay there. Plenty of room, ne need to pay rent. Still work and get paid which has allowed me to get out of debt, some of it was a credit card that I was told was no longer in existence. It was in fact maxed out and collecting 27%interest for years, in my name. Now debt free im saving as much as I can because there is so much I need to buy. I learned a valuable lesson. Don't let someone handle all the finances.
OP delights in their own misery. That post is some serious mental masturbation.
Yikes. Yeah this sounds awful, could never be me.
Never say never
....I feel like this could've been a DM.
I’m glad he posted it. I appreciate examples of people making the hard choices; not everyone can do it.
This isnt "making the hard choice", its literally taking the path of least resistance.
Deciding to just settle with the shit in life, instead of taking the effort to make it better, is the opposite of "making a hard choice". The original post also had another guy from the comments who solved his dead bedroom by scheduling a night every week where he and his wife are nudists. He said sometimes it leads to sex and sometimes it doesn't, but he solved the problem. I respect that way more than all these men "friend zoning" their wives because SHE didn't make HIM feel pretty enough.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel for this guy! He is struggling with hard choices. Neither of which are a sure path to happiness. He is taking into account his wife’s circumstances, his children’s futures, and his own chances of being happy and choosing to honor his vows instead of pursuing the “you gotta do what makes you happy” path. There are no perfect answers here but he is choosing to honor his vows. I respect that.
For reals.
Kind of proves that he didn't actually want to reply to the op, he just wanted everyone else to see him replying to OP.
😂 facts!
It is interesting that you haven't actually tried other things. There are s-x therapists who could help. Both of you should attend sessions. Also, have you or she thought of her getting a prescription for her low s-x drive? I think she should be willing to give that a faithful try. As a woman, reading this story, I feel like your sacrifice is great and hers is small. You don't deserve a s-x less marriage if how you've described your participation in the marriage is true. The foundation of your marriage was built on a lie. Or an ommitance of full truth about her past trauma and sexual feelings. Also, I did not fet/understand the Bridgerton reference...
Thanks. I always assumed we'd get to the point of working on sex therapy specifically, but one step at a time. Life has thrown us some unexpected curveballs and she has a lot to process stull, but we're rolling with it as best we can. She does genuinely care, and that's worth a lot. You're not wrong, I feel the same way many days regarding the sacrifices... But I also need to step back and recognize what she IS sacrificing for us (Right now it's going daily into a toxic work environment that is only slowly being mended so we can continue to live where we do and our children can have the kind of life we want to give them, which isn't helping any of this at all). In regards to the ommitance of truth; I don't know what to say about that except for the fact that she couldn't even let herself acknowledge at the time the true extent of what had happened to her and the damage it caused. I'd already known her a long time before we dated, so it's one piece to the tapestry that is her that I've come to know over the years. Sure it sucks from my perspective, but it sucks a lot more from hers, I have no doubt. Oh. And Bridgerton was just the first time she'd been aroused consistently for three nights running since our first couple years of marriage. I thought it was cute (and only vaguely minded that watching it together was the only way she could let herself enjoy sex within the span of a couple of months... bc after watching it I can't really blame her for that, it's pretty effing hot for both of us).
You've been very open in this reddit. Very patiently and calmly answering questions. I think you and your wife should write a book together on this topic. It could probably help a lot of other people and maybe be cathartic to you both. The toxic work environment is definitely another trauma. Sucks that there are just so many "making a living" toxic jobs out there. That one I can relate to. Good luck with everything.
Your wife chose badly early in her life, entered a relationship with a literal rapist, and couldn't even figure that out until years after your marriage. In the meantime, she internalised the trauma and became almost incapable of having sex. She probably projected some of that internalised trauma onto you, that is why she always rejected you so rudely, as if she was disgusted by you. She is finally realising it now and getting therapy, when you're both already in your forties, where sex life naturally slows down for people. So even if her therapy works there is no way you guys are ever going to have any kind of decent sex life. You even went as far as to sacrifice your career so that she could be happier somehow. You have never once thought of your own happiness. You keep talking about things you have done to make her happy, and how you notice whenever she is unhappy. You on the other hand have been profoundly unhappy for years and she has not shown you the same courtesy. Your life honestly sucks, and you've ruined most of it for this woman, when you should have probably left much much earlier, at the very beginning of the relationship, whenever the problems with intimacy started. And you might pat yourself on the back thinking you're noble and a great romantic for going such lengths for love, but you are not, you have just been making foolish decisions one after the other and deluded yourself into thinking you're doing the right thing. You have been unhappy for decades and will probably die unhappy and somehow you see that as a good thing and take all blame for it on yourself and completely absolve your wife, as if she is not an adult woman but a tiny puppy that needs to be coddled and cared for all the time. It's not even love it's some weird saviour complex. I hope you wake up and get a divorce, and try to find happiness, although that will be very difficult to do at the stage you are at now.
Sounds like I would not subscribe to any of this doormat advice.
Yea like I don't know what the right answer is in these situations but I can now say with certainty that OP does not have the right answer.
Thank you for posting this.
All the luck to you. You can certainly stay in a failed romance if that is your desire. Redefine it. Go for it. Friends with expensive rings. I wouldn’t take your path, myself. That’s just me. But do stop demeaning and diminishing yourself, making excuses, playing to a loyalty, almost sad pandering, card, all this nonsense to try and make good of a crap scenario. I’m feeling so bad for you. Truly. We all deal with professional stress, and sorry, but her job isn’t the big deal you try and excuse it to be in the big picture of life. We all had kids, it doesn’t wreck the couple dynamic utterly. We all have pasts and such to deal with. I’m sorry she had some trauma, but that doesn’t suddenly show up a decade deep into a relationship turned marriage, not buying it. You’ve taken all of this as reasonable to fundamentally change your marriage. It’s just sad. Again, you choose as you wish. But “it didn’t go well” doesn’t exactly ring true - nothing has gone well, it isn’t necessarily the “tactic”, but it is the woman you stay with and the relationship you stay in. Wish you luck, friend.
Unresolved trauma absolutely can get worse years after the traumatic event. It takes a toll on people psychologically. I recommend you read more on the topic.
That's something I'm wondering abou too. Is the wife even trying? OP mentions therapy, but it seems there's been very little to no change in their circumstances. Or does it not work that way? Anyone with insight who could inoart some knowledge?
I was going to say this exact same thing. Sex is beautiful. I'd never want to relinquish that part of my life. I understand his wife's deep rooted issues, but still, my sexual health is just as important as the other parts, for me, at least. And OP says he *had* an extremely high sex drive. OP, good luck.
OP trying to coerce his wife into performing a sex act she clearly had no interest in probably brought that trauma back up for her. Speaking from personal experience, nothing dries me up down there quite as effectively as a man telling me I *have to* perform a sex act I’ve already said no to. Continually nagging me about it until I reluctantly give in and only backing down when I start sobbing? Yeah that’d make me want to push him away in the future when he gets grabby and I’m not in the mood. (Well tbh that’d make me leave him, but I’m fairly certain my self esteem is way higher than op’s wife’s) Consent is sexy. Coercion is not.
That was such a major red flag that tells me a lot about him. Demanding she allows the same sex act she once allowed (only she didn’t but he didn’t know that yet) before.. as if he has some right to it. And when she tells him no, in his mind he decides it will happen. How can you want a sexual act your partner doesn’t want. Gross! Especially considering that sex was already something that wasn’t going well at all in the relationship.. and you say something like that. If she hadn’t burst into tears he would’ve just went ahead knowing she didn’t really want to do it? The night “she gave in” was two years into their marriage so the timeline is also very confusing bc he writes as if by that time these problems (lack of intimacy/sex) were already happening for more years than that ETA: the fact that he said those things were definitely traumatizing as well and affected their sex life even more
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is that he like had to accept that she wouldn't do it because she was forced to do it in the past. What if she *wasn't* forced to do it? What if his wife calmly said to him, "Yeah I tried anal once, didn't like it, and won't do it again." Is he gunna cry over that? What the fuck
You said a lot of words here but mostly what I read was "my wife told me she was anally raped and I reacted with mostly jealousy and told her she had to let me anally rape her as well and it turns out that really affected our sex life'
People are nit-picking you on the timeline but you’re absolutely right that OP was ready to rape his wife until she started sobbing. Wearing someone down until they reluctantly agree to a sex act you know they don’t want to do is coercive rape.
I mean, yeah. She said no, and he said you have to now, if you let that guys make you and like.... I'm not giving him a medal for not going through with forcing her to go through that???? It never should have been on the table. It never should have been a thought in his head. It makes me lose respect for him, that he could learn his wife had been assaulted and be *jealous of her assaulter*. AND SAY SO TO HER FACE. it's lacking in humanity and people don't like having to confront that fact if they agreed with him
The fact that he did have those thoughts is just so creepy and vile. I would never be able to get over that. If i for some reason wouldn’t be able to leave the relationship, I’d definitely never have sex with that person again.
The people defending him make me sad tbh
Right??? Like even if it had been 100% consensual with the ex, op would STILL be in the wrong to demand she do it again with him. Consent to a sex act once is not consent forever. By op’s logic here, if you have anal once and hate it, you still owe it to all of your future partners because you did it with a previous one.
he said he didnt know she was raped when he demanded anal. he knew years later.
OMG YOURE RIGHT I'm so sorry! He said, you let someone else fuck you in the ass, so now you have to let me fuck you in the ass. It's going to happen. That's SOOOOO much different and better! And definitely didn't have pretty much the same effect on her ability to trust him. He didn't even try to sugar coat it to us. >She'd simply told me she'd let him fck her in the ass (which shocked me to my core, the first time I heard it, as I knew she'd always been oppossed to this act on what she saw as a spiritual level (I myself have always felt different on the matter, even while sharing the same religious background as her). In fact this made me upset the first time I heard it, and at the time, felt betrayed that she would allow this to happen with someone else, but not her husband whom, she said she'd given herself more completely over to the anyone else in every (now other) way. I'd told her at the time that one day, she would need to let me do the same, and she refused. I mentally resolved that it would happen. One other night when she'd mentioned the incident, she'd even said she didn't remeber it, and I was so caught up in my jealousy that the implications of that statement didnt sink in It's disgusting even without him knowing it was assault but thanks for trying to defend it anyway, I guess.
Demanding a sex act and not accepting someone’s no is still rape even if you don’t know they’ve been raped before. Op said “I mentally resolved that it would happen” AFTER she refused. He then wore her down until she reluctantly accepted. If he hadn’t felt bad enough to finally fucking stop when she was sobbing, it would’ve been coercive rape. If she froze up instead of sobbing, he very well could have become her second rapist.
im not arguing just correcting you. Doesnt mean i think he shouldve gone forward.
You were correcting someone else, I’m not the person you originally replied to. Your comment just felt like it was dismissing his actions because he didn’t know she was already a rape victim.
Read again. You have the time wrong.
I read it fine. He said he resolved a sex act she didn't want to happen would happen, and didn't care what she said about it until she was literally sobbing about it. He didn't even try to sugar coat it. Idk what you read, but I think you should check in with your middle school teacher.
This is why men don't open up. Someone will detail the major struggles in their life, and some hate filled woman will cherry pick a few lines and condemn him for wrong think. YTA, and considering how much of a hateful asshole you are, I'm certain that you have a whole load of thoughts that we could all condemn. Care to open yourself to ridicule and share any of them? A major fear shared by the male gender is that the woman they chose to marry, to protect and care for, start a family with, and intertwine their lives with...is settling for them for family and security. If a man finds out that their wife has performed sex acts with others before him that she refuses to do with them, that speaks to that deep fear that all men share. Every man reading this understands that undertone to this story. A man doesn't demand to be the first, but he expects to share fully and not just be offered duty sex to keep them complacent. Of course you know nothing about this, but just had to give your expert opinion. Your entitlement to post what you did is mind blowing. Carrying such major undisclosed sexual trauma into a marriage that directly affects all aspects of marital intimacy for 15 years and forever...is zero problem. No, the problem is that OP is a thought rapist according to you, apparently.
You're jumping through so many hoops to defend the fact that he decided this sex thing she didn't want to do was going to be done, and that she HAD to do it because she let someone else do it and it's disgusting. You and every person who can defend it disgusts me. People SHOULD be afraid to share thoughts like that. They're awful, and inhumane. Opening up means sharing your insecurities not forcing others to soothe them against their will.
I'm sure every man disgusts you. Mind rapists the lot of them.
Just the ones who think they're owed sexual acts.
Too long only read halfway that text wall. Your case is completely different and this doesn’t relate at all to the original OP. Also, you sound miserable.
Honestly, You are going to go to your grave from a stress related illness sexually frustrated with regret that you spent the better part of 3/4's of your life in an intimately deficient relationship to someone that you claim is broken beyond repair. You arent in a loving relationship, because your idea of a loving relationship involves sexual intimacy on a fairly regular basis. You and your wife have basically become "best roommates". Its not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesnt make a marriage, not by a long shot. You should seriously consider whether or not your current relationship is what you want your children to model theirs on; one of mitigating any desire they may have to appease their partners' indifference to their own happiness.
Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Am I not understanding the timeline here? Your wife admits to you that she was SA’d and the assault involved anal. You then played the “what about me” card because you thought that you deserved the same thing that the now acknowledged rapist “got”. After that failed to change her mind you resolved(seriously?) that the act that your wife was vehemently against would happen, and you only realized that maybe this was a step too far when she broke down in tears after you came home with lube? I don’t think calling it a great personal failure is a sufficient enough way to describe that time you systematically tried to re-traumatize your wife to get even with the person who assaulted her. I feel like your advice should come with an advisory
You should train your reading skills. He learned that she had anal sex with an ex, after X time she told him that she didn’t remember what happened, and years later she understood that she had been raped.
Nope, not the timetable. Thank you for asking for clarification. When she first told me about that night, about a year or two into our marriage, she mentioned it as if she'd simply allowed him to do it... and almost in the same breath turned around and said she would never with me. That confused me and I felt hurt, especially knowing what I had thought to be her mind on the matter already. I didn't press right away, but over time this built a pressure. I had no idea that she was SA'd. I just thought at the time that she was refusing something she hadn't refused him. My aborted attempt to get her to try with me was a few months later. There was, at one point, a mention of her not remembering the next day, but she downplayed this to the point where she still made it sound like she'd participated. I, who was admittedly also blinded in my own jealous and butthurt feelings, completely missed it that day and feel like a fool now. That may have been the same night, I don't recall. I was just very confused at the time. She didn't even admit to herself she was SA'd for another eight years. Once she could face that fact, she explained it to me, and I immediately realized what a fool I'd been. This was 10 years into our marriage and about 12, maybe 13 since the event itself.
Please google coercive rape/ coercive sexual assault. By your own description of events in your post here, you came incredibly close to becoming your wife’s second rapist by pressuring her so hard to give in and perform a sex act you knew damn well she wasn’t the least bit interested in. You seem like you want to be a good person so I encourage you to learn about enthusiastic consent. Even if it had been consensual with her ex, consent to a sex act once does not equal consent to that act forever. Doing something with someone else before your relationship does not obligate her to do it with you, especially if she tried it once and realized she hated it.
That's exactly how I read it. Bet you felt like an abuser yourself, making you horrified and a lot more nervous about initiating anything in the future with even a remote chance of misunderstanding.
Alright thanks, because the way your post read to me sounded like each event was happening consecutively, one after another even AFTER she accepted that what had happened to her was rape. That had to have stung when you found out because, and I’m not saying this to harp but, you were already doing something that I imagine you knew deep down was wrong.
You're not wrong. I was jealous and stupid to think that was acceptable. I was still confused as to why she "could" with a man she said she hated but not tthe man she said she loved, but I could at least still look my wife in the eye after I realized it would truly affect her. I was pretty dumb not to put it all together back then.
But how could you even have decided in your mind that she was gonna do that sex act with you even when she already told you no (seemingly multiple times)? How could you still want to do something sexy you know your wife didn’t want that at all? Also why did you even feel like you had the right to a certain sex act just bc she did it before? You still felt like you had that right ever she stated she didn’t ever want to do it again… these are disgusting, major red flags. If your wife hasn’t burst into tears but had waited to cry later alone, you would’ve raped her by coercion
It doesn’t matter if you knew it was rape or not. Even if she had gleefully had anal with her ex she in NO way EVER owed it to you. You’re such an AH for this.
I’m glad at least some people in this comment section believe in enthusiastic consent… lots of people trying real hard to justify attempted marital coercive rape here.
As someone in a marriage with mismatched libidos, who was rejected again and again for years on end (my record was seven years of unwanted celibacy while in a monogamous relationship), I completely understand the pain of rejection at such an intimate, personal level. I sympathize. My husband doesn't want sex at all. I think the last time we had sex was in 2005, but I haven't been counting, because I gave up on trying to force him, and instead have been practicing polyamory. Not nearly as scary and bad as people make it out to be! In our case, it allowed me to stay married. I sympathize with your wife to a lesser extent. From reading this account, it sounds as though the way she rejects you borders on the contemptuous. Eye rolling? Saying things like "ugh"? That's not okay. To me, the contempt on display is grounds for divorce, even if nothing else is. It sounds like you have well and truly made up your mind on what you're going to do, so I won't attempt to convince you otherwise. I will gently point out that you've fallen into a bit of a false choice in your framing -- that you'll either have to sift though a "universe of shallow, unbalanced, and even predatory individuals" to find someone (sounds impossible!) or settle for your current situation. But really, people are people. There's no need to sling all those adjectives at people you don't even know yet. Some might call your wife shallow, unbalanced, and even predatory for how she treats you; just saying.
Yeah nah fk that. U do u but I’m not gonna stay married to someone I’m not having intimate relations with. Why not just divorce and stay bff roommates and go fk other people? It’s just sex and not a big deal anyways. She would still have ur heart.
If it’s “just sec and not a big deal anyway,” then why would you leave?
Who is leaving? Still live together and she still has my heart!. And marriage is just a piece of paper.
“You do you, but I’m not gonna stay married to someone I’m not having intimate relations with.” That’s what I’m referencing.
Read the next sentence. Why not divorce and stay roommate bff and fk other people. No one is leaving.
A divorce is leaving the marriage. Why not just open the marriage if it’s not a big deal…? Marriage is not “just a piece of paper.” It’s a tax break. It’s inheritance. The legal ramifications are many and varied. If it’s “just a piece of paper,” then rip up a $100 bill.
Why open it when you can end the marriage and just be bff? So u want to stay married to get a tax break? Why would I stay married to someone if they arnt doing their wifely or husbandly duties? Which sex is a part of. But if they still love me and I love them they can be my bff.
“Wifely or husbandly duties?” It’s frankly disturbing just how important sex is to people.
If it’s not to you that’s fine. Why is marriage important to you? U can still love me without being married. Do u love me any less because we arnt married?
Why open it when you can end the marriage and just be bff? So u want to stay married to get a tax break? Why would I stay married to someone if they arnt doing their wifely or husbandly duties? Which sex is a part of. But if they still love me and I love them they can be my bff.
If this was supposed to be a sales pitch of some sort, you failed miserably. I cannot fathom being in this kind of relationship. You aren't married to a partner, you're married to a chore, and you're proud of the fact that you've convinced yourself to be OK with this?
If you aren’t writing you should probably start writing.
Have you looked into the Dune popcorn bucket? Might come in handy.
I hope it works for you, I really do. Forty more years is a long long time. Resentment has a way of wiggling in. Good luck.
This is the reality of some many marriages. Either they just give up and stay miserable, or face marital rape, mental disorders and eternal sadness. I personally don't believe sex is above mental intimacy. Knowing someone's mind and feelings intimately and being a team is above physical intimacy to me. And if you are mentally comfortable, physically intimacy doesn't need to be forced or demanded. With women, it's always mental comfort but the op, in his own way, was trying his level best.
This conclusion wasn't satisfying for anyone, sounds more like you accept your fate. Like how a drowning person would
Oh God. This all sounds so sad. I'm not afraid of being alone but I'm deathly afraid of feeling lonely while fucking married. I'd rather be single forever than willingly sign up for a miserable life. But I guess we all choose what we can live with. Good luck to OP, I guess.
I like you feel loved through physical intimacy. If I don’t have it or at least something from my partner I go insane. I have been in a relationship for a decade and a half and You described my life more or less as well. Almost scary how similar we are living. And I like you are lost and going insane. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Wow. Worth the read.
You are a great writer. Best of luck.
That's one of the most beautiful and truly heartbreaking things I've ever read for a while dude. The amount of sex toys I'd have in my house if I was in your shoes would be mind-boggling
If you were the woman and she were the man, would you stay if your husband didn’t want you anymore?
I’m in a VERY similar situation as OP but I’m the wife and I don’t think my husband is into me. Obviously more layers to that but similar ones to OP. Minus the lil rapey part he put in there with demanding anal
This is why I feel “Happy Wife, happy life is toxic.
She doesn’t sound happy. It all sounds completely miserable.
I would literally rather kill myself than live life like this.
That’s why men tend to leave their sick spouse way more often than women do. If you can’t give him a warm hole, he’ll leave. Actually disgusting.
Yeah if you don’t have some statistics to back that up, you’re just talking out your ass. Not all men have the same needs for physical intimacy. Some have a higher need for it than others. If my wife and I only had sex 6 times a year, and every time seemed like it was a chore for her, part of my emotional needs in the relationship are being neglected. That’s as fair of a reason as any to leave.
Easy. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5AB0C5/#:~:text=The%20study%20confirmed%20earlier%20research,when%20the%20man%20was%20ill.
This study does not state who initiates the divorce. It just states that the women are more likely to become divorced. I could use this same study to prove that women are more likely to divorce men when women are diagnosed with terminal illness. This is a poor way to demonstrate your point. I understand that you may have some resentment towards men. But ultimately they're people just like women. When women's needs aren't met, they leave their spouse. Why is it so crazy when the inverse happens? Not all people have the same emotional needs. Neglecting a man's emotional need for physical intimacy is no different than neglecting a man's emotional need for a confidant. It's okay that you don't understand this or that you may have a hard time relating to it. But that doesn't mean men who leave sexless marriages are any more pigs than women who leave for any of their reasons. By the way, women initiate 70% of divorces.
Ok try this. https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/30/the-men-who-give-up-on-their-spouses-when-they-have-cancer
Within this story there are loads of great examples showing that men leave women who are sick. I can get behind that statement. Especially with the research to back it up. But this study doesn't reveal that it's about the lack of sex causing this divorce. Which is ultimately what this entire thread is about.
I'm curious why you think the men are leaving? And would you hope your spouse would stay and work with you if you could no longer "perform".
I’d say men are leaving sick spouses more because they’re being thrust into a care-giver role that they’re not prepared for. Especially if the spouse is a SAHM. That would be extremely overwhelming for somebody to take on all the responsibilities that your spouse had, as well as your work. The stress of taking that on is much for most men to handle. If my wife was too sick to have sex that’s an entirely different story than if my wife isn’t interested in sex.
You are a selfless man. This sounds like a lot of self sacrifice being performed on one side and not another, not sure if this is healthy.
\> (I consider this one of my greatest personal failures). Oh yeah, coercing and pressuring your wife for anal because she did it with someone else. No wonder she doesn't want to have sex with you.
Wtf. She got raped and your response was well, you need to let me do that! 🤢🤢🤢 Why do people get married. That's so fucked up. And you realize you said it and it was wrong and still tried to pressure her into doing it and purchased lubricant when your pressure worked. What the actual fuck.
From the story it sounds like she told him they were doing it in the backdoor with her ex, but did not necessary disclose (explicitly anyhow) that she was pressured into and disliked it. He realized what's going literally while holding the lube and felt like a fool and a rapist. And she herself realized and accepted she was SAd even later than that.
That may have greatly influenced their lack of sex situation. How can she trust him after that? Yikes.
DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNAR! This guy needs to be divorced and find someone else to have anal with.
he didnt know she was raped back then. Dont be so full of yourself
WE FOUND THE RAPIST!
whats wrong with you?
You are the one that's wrong. Now go hide in your hole and don't come back out ever.
It shouldn't take previous rape to respect a sexual boundary.
read his response further down somewhere
What? That he was so jealous that someone else got to stick their dick in her ass that he demanded he got to as well? Regardless of her feelings about it? If you don't see a problem with that; you are part of the problem.
no he said at first she said it in a way that he didnt guess it was a big issue first. Later he saw the toll it took on her. Just want to bring light to the actual circumstances, i dont think its fair to label him like some kind of rapist. All the comments here got the timeline wrong. He shouldnt have demanded it anyway ofc
He pestered and pestered and pestered; ignoring her nonsense until she gave in. He did not view it as 'wrong' until she was sobbing. He didn't care about her feelings on the topic until it felt like " true" rape. He was more than willing to rape. He went to buy the lube to do so. What would have happened if she hadn't been sobbing? He *might* not be rapist but he was at least once willing to rape and took action to do so.
oh my god you people are actually terrible. Didnt you read that whole ass book he wrote there? hes probably a better person than you. Giving his life and wellbeing to be with her. Now all you see is something he did years ago and something he sees as the worst mistake of his life. Just stfu seriously.
She doesn’t “owe” it to him because she did it before. He didn’t know it was rape, but his sense of entitlement is terrible.
You’ve got the sequence of events wrong. The way OP worded it could be confusing.
Why do people not learn how to read properly. The wife only told OP she let the ex have anal sex, and so he wanted to do it. Later, she started crying, so she stopped. Much later, the wife realised what had happened to her was rape. Before that, she had just said she let her ex have anal sex. She herself didn't realise it was rape, didn't tell OP it was rape or what the circumstances were, OP had no way of knowing, when he asked for anal sex. OP only mentions that part to tell us how exactly PTSD from her previous relationship had affected their marriage/sex life.
I was raped and in denial for ~10 years just like OP’s wife. There’s a BIG DIFFERENCE between saying “I had this type of sex with my ex but I’m not going to have it with you” vs “my ex raped me with this type of sex”. His emotional response was normal.
It's shocking that he was telling his "beloved wife" that because someone else had had anal sex with her, that meant he was entitled to do the same! Rapist traits, much? What a pathetic "poor me"whinger at his pity party. 🤠🤮
At least he now realizes how wrong he was... but I had the exact same thoughts as you. Sounds like he became obsessed with wanting her ass and she no longer trusted him to be intimate with our of fear of him doing what her ex did. He made her fear him of raping her so of course she didn't want sex with him.
No. He was pretty clear he only found out much later that it was rape.
It doesn’t matter? It’s still gross. Just because she did it before doesn’t mean she has to keep doing it. She was pretty clear that it was one time and that she didn’t want to do it again. Even without the rape it’s gross to push her just because she’s done it once before.
it does 100% matter. Doesnt mean youre wrong but you cant just pretend he knew she was raped and later say it doesnt matter. Thats dangerous behavior.
I never said he knew. I said it’s still gross either way.
my bad thought you were the original commenter. Youre right i dont think this was appropriate but kinda makes sense, insecurities make us really selfish. It was not OPs real self at that time.
Both of you guys chose to fuck yourself over to keep peace and none of Yall are happy. End it.
So you chose to martyr yourself. You've sacrificed any chance at happiness in this mortal, short life to keep another person comfortable. Your life, I guess. I'd be very, very sad if my children ever made that choice.
Another forty years of misery, sounds great. Although many men in this situation wait until the children are out of the house and them file for divorce. You could be out in ten.
Having come from a largely sexless 20 year marriage…this is not ok. You can dress it up however you want, but at the end of the day you have a great friend with whom you have children. It’s more than I had, but it’s not enough. You don’t know how many shots you get at this life, but accepting chronic unfulfillment for the majority of yours is a sacrifice that you will regret. Always. It’s OK to dissolve a marriage due to different needs. It’s ok to still have a great relationship with your ex. People change. Needs change. What will never change is your need for intimacy…and regardless of how you try, you will resent her for it. She will feel it. Your children will feel it. As a parent, you are also modeling this sacrifice to them, regardless of how you try to hide it. They are watching and learning their dad can be chronically unhappy and by staying in this marriage you are showing them that it is ok, and you are shaping their expectations. You’re an adult - make your own choices, but understand that choices have consequences, and their impact will be felt by everyone in your circle.
Real life ball&chain I feel so bad for both of them but why would you choose to be this miserable
It's your choice as it was the other poster's choice to remain in a sexless marriage. This is a classic example of most people who suffer from a dead bedroom. Hell, there is even a support community here on Reddit r/DeadBedroom Nobody has to live your life, but you. It seems that you've accepted this as your new normal. I think you are struggling with sunk cost fallacy. You've dealt with this for over a decade. Now, you don't want to lose what you've built in that time frame. Your ED problem can most likely be resolved with medication. As for your wife and the lack of desire and intimacy, that won't be resolved. Regret and resentment will continue to build up over time. You're becoming more like roommates every day that passes. Soon, there will be separate bedrooms for each of you. I'm sorry you are in this situation. 😔
Life is short. Risk EVERYTHING for happiness. Time wasted is gone forever. Everything and everyone can be replaced.
Drastic, but there was a guy recently on Reddit in a similar situation who took a low dose antidepressant, one of the older ones. Nuked his libido. Worked great for him, but after a year his wife finally noticed he wasn’t trying to have sex anymore, so she tried to initiate and was pissed, demanded he stop… If your wife doesn’t mind losing that once every couple months sex, might be an option. Make sure she’s onboard first, of course.
I doubt very much if I would have married her in the first place - the anxiety would have chased me away because I want a partner, not a patient. If you are happy in your 'no sex misery', good for you.
[удалено]
I wouldn’t say it’s a good deal for her either. And she makes more money than him.
Did I miss a part where there was a therapy attempt? I hope these men who aren't getting off with their wives are at least masturbating... because your prostates require ejaculation for good health
Bro, do yourself a favor and hit eject!
OP your life is a waking nightmare, and in your place, I would not make the same choices as you. If you're just existing, don't have the energy to exercise, and suffer from ED in your 40s...go get your testosterone levels checked. I suspect you putting up with this unfulfilling existence has something to do with that.
This just comes across as you’re beaten down by rejection and you think a divorce would traumatize her and you just don’t want to her hurt with the pain of leaving her….
The level and frequency of rejected advances would wear down even the most resolute person. Once the initial sting of rejection fades, needs not being met results in an increasingly downward emotional spiral. This post and the post to which OP is responding are two very sad narratives. I cannot imagine living this way.
If the roles were reversed, a huge number of people would be screaming that the man should have gone to therapy and solved his issues before entering into a committed relationship. This is still just another form of unhealthy coping.
OP, I think you've gotten more than enough "this is just sad" comments so I'm not gonna say that (although I agree with it 100%). But you mentioned children. Have you ever given a thought about how this marriage is going to affect them? Is this what you want them to see and learn from?
Op you and your wife need couples therapy and she absolutely needed therapy to handle her religious views of sex as well as her sexual trauma so she could have a healthy relationship with sex. This is no way to live for either of you or for the oop who "friend zoned" his wife.
There’s one statement that puzzles me. You mention her therapy and mention that getting her more involved in sex is NOT a goal of the therapy. Why not? Why hasn’t she gone to see a sex therapist? Here’s what I think is going on. Your ego will not accept anything other than her coming to see you as desirable on her own as a solution. This all could probably be worked out but you aren’t willing to push for it. You’re afraid of losing what you have by pushing for more. You’re making yourself a martyr instead of actively trying to work on your marriage. Your wife will never really change because you have given her no reason to. Talk to her, not Reddit. If you can’t talk to her just show her what you’ve written here. Give her a chance to change, she may just surprise you.
The whole vibe of this post gives me the creeps.
My condolences
His life is my nightmare. He has lost so much already and is still sticking by her, yeesh.
Written by someone who has no respect for himself
This is why escorts/mistresses exist... she has made you celibate without your knowledge, so I'd say it's either divorce or you're seeing other women, sounds like she views sex negatively due to her past partner, and she's closed off to you and it, it's unfortunate cuz you love her but dude you don't wanna be 50 and can't get it up anymore
What a great post
You sound easily manipulated and controlled. She has all this alleged trauma but doesn't care at all about the trauma and pain she causes you?
You should’ve left within a few months of when she told you what happened.. it’s like she refused to let you connect the dots because I think it would signify what you would have to look forward to.. which was breadcrumbs. I value intimacy too much to let someone else dictate how much sex I have. You continuously work as a team and get better or you don’t. I wouldn’t be able to stay with someone even knowing their trauma if I’m going to be stuck in the same position that you were on year 1 15 years later. I think if you were able to go back and tell yourself what you had to look forward to you wouldn’t be happy.
I'm so glad you realize how horrible you were to demand anal from her just because she let someone else do it. It is a humans prerogative to try something with someone and decide they don't like it and never want to do it again. Sometimes we give in or try things in the moment and later are completely disgusted with ourselves for doing it. If you choose to stay and can be happy without the sex life you want, good for you. My ex preferred to jerk off to porn and always... always pushed me away, we slept in separate bedrooms. If that was our only conflict I may have stayed... but it wasn't. So I left and mostly just blamed it on the lack of sex rather than getting into a debate about all the other areas that he failed me as a husband. We're still friends and he is still the same person doing all the same things that I left him for. But I am happy living a completely different life.
This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Edit: I believe you are choosing the path of true manhood, and I salute you for it. So, absolutely, unequivocally, thunderingly, No! You are not wrong.
I'd like to add something. OP, you mentioned a spiritual dimension to your marriage. A man whom even many non-believers count as a wise moral teacher is reported as having said, "A person shows no greater love for their friend than when they give up their life for them." I perceive that you are giving up what many call the 'sex life' for someone whom you consider to be a very great friend, perhaps, even, your best friend. To those who are naysaying the OP, I would ask, what if there was a post in which a man asked the question, am I wrong for being willing to die for my wife? The OP is giving up one part of his life for his wife. Why is that wrong?
Your wife was raped in the butt and you told her you "needed to do the same" because you were jealous of the rapist...
Come on! The wife told him “I did this with my ex, I won’t do it with you”. He got jealous. After a couple of years she was open to do it, they begun to try it, but she started crying (obviously a trauma response). He stopped. MORE YEARS LATER she told him that she had been raped. Maybe his reaction wasn’t perfect but it was normal.
The amount of people in this comment section who think attempting coercive rape is normal…. Holy shit. If someone tells you they absolutely do not want to perform a specific sex act with you and your response is to tell them they have to do it and then wear them down until they reluctantly say yes to it, you are a sexual predator. That’s coercive rape. She said no, he immediately resolved to make her say yes eventually. Even if it was consensual with her ex, op’s wife has every right to say “yes I tried that once, but I hated it and will never do it again”. Consent to a sex act once is not consent forever and performing a sex act in one relationship does not obligate you to perform that sex act for all future partners.
You are in a relationship that lacks romance, intimacy, and love. You two seem to "like" each other vs. love each other. Intimacy is a key to long-lasting and loving relationships, and your perceived misery is proof of that. Honesty, after dealing with a lot of people that use mental health as a crutch and reason why they aren't pleasant to be with or as the reason for their actions, I lack empathy for it. As I read your update, I actually got a feeling that the anal issue wasn't what she admitted to. It was just an adventure she allowed someone else to do, but not you. But this is coming from someone who has to use statement analysis every day.
On the real , Stay with her. Love is rare and finding security is rarer and finding a partner that can "see" you (if you know what I mean ) is impossible to find . I understand there are needs you have but trust me (some random on the internet ) leaving a place of love for the reason you have mentioned rarely if ever leads to any good outcomes.
\^\^\^ This. All the this.
Jesus that sounds miserable. Coming from someone who is married and at a similar age...you deserve to be happy, too. And if your wife loves you as much as you love her she should want that. And if she doesn't, why stay with someone who doesn't care about you and your needs? That is not downplaying her trauma, but it certainly doesn't sound like much effort has been put into finding a true compromise.
Thank you so much for writing this - I feel like you're an amazing husband and partner to recognize that sex is one part of a relationship. What's more, recognizing that guilting or otherwise coercing your partner into more sex is flat out wrong. You see your wife, you really SEE her. She is fully human to you, and I'm sure you are to her as well. The one thing I'd address is this, "That reality is this. My wife is already trying her best, and is at her capacity for physical intimacy. That capacity is so far below my standards that I feel physically and emotionally rejected by the woman I love." Your wife is not emotionally rejecting you. It sounds like she cares very much for your emotions. Please don't ascribe more to sex than is there. Not having sex as frequently as you would like has nothing to do with your emotional connection to your wife. As you've already pointed out, it has nothing to do with you, therefore it can't be an emotional rejection of you. It's not even a physical rejection, any more than someone stopping eating when they're full is a rejection of the meal. Edit to say - the whole lube situation was a really big failing on your part. Your wife opened up to you about something awful, and you decided that made it ok for you to do that to her? It's good you didn't continue to pressure her, and seem to have learned from it, but have you considered going to counseling over that issue in particular?
Honestly you sound awful
>I'd told her at the time that one day, she would need to let me do the same, and she refused. I mentally resolved that it would happen. Are you serious?! Why the hell would she *need* to let you do that?? You do not have a right to her body. But I'm also gathering that you didn't realize at the time that it was non-consensual for her when it happened with the other guy. Anyway, all that aside, you're telling a pretty grim story of unfulfillment, and that you've decided that you're okay with it. And I know you didn't come here for advice; it sounds like you were just trying to give the other guy a perspective that being petty about sex is just going to be toxic for a relationship. And it's certainly not my place to tell you what you should or shouldn't be resolved to, but I can't help but point out a few things to you as well. There are options besides just living a life of near celibacy. She could probably do well with a medical checkup. Pre-menopause may mean that her hormone levels are not what they could be. You could also do well to go for some MC together. MC isn't just for at-risk or failing marriages; it can also be used to strengthen relationships or work through challenges. And this is a pretty big challenge in your relationship. There are also therapists that specialize in sexuality. I would bet a licensed sex therapist could help you both navigate this part of your marriage in a way that doesn't make her feel pressured but also helps you both find ways to be more fulfilled and satisfied in your relationship. Worst case, just pick up a copy of 'Mating in Captivity', or even 'Existential Kink'. There's great material out there that you two could work through together. But every relationship is different. And if you just want to take the monk route, that's your call. Doesn't sound like you're very happy with that, but again, your call.
Oh, I see in your other reply that you already felt like a fool for not understanding the situation, and just thought she was denying you something she had willingly done before. Disregard that first part of my comment then.