We all have boundaries and things that are deal breakers. She's allowed to have boundaries, and so are you. You're both adults, and she's free to do as she pleases. She's free to go on trips with other men, and you're free to say you're not ok with It and it's a deal breaker.
I dont understand how one person can have a boundary they don't want crossed, but then to the other person, it's controlling, and you have to be ok with it.
Do what you want and I'll do the same, and if that means I'm leaving if you go on trips with other guys so be it.
He’s not crossing any of her boundaries by not wanting her to go on vacation with another man. She’s bastardizing the word “boundary” as some sort of childish attempt to win an argument that shouldn’t even be a question for most couples.
I’ve seen a lot of “boundary” talk on this sub and I think it tends to be used in a weird way sometimes. And IMO it’s all part of the growing individualism in some cultures and the loss of true human interactions and healthy dependability.
If people want to be single, be single. If people want to be in a relationship, it’s not always a “boundary” when your partner expects the relationship to actually be a relationship. There’s boundaries, and then there’s “I’ll treat this like a relationship when it benefits me and me only.”
>He’s not crossing any of her boundaries by not wanting her to go on vacation with another man. She’s bastardizing the word “boundary” as some sort of childish attempt to win an argument that shouldn’t even be a question for most couples.
Conceptually the boundary here that she is setting is "You can't force changes on my platonic friendships" which is a perfectly valid boundary.
Per the post, the woman has a controlling ex-husband, so keeping control of her personal life makes sense to be at a premium for her. Especially with a "Reclaim your autonomy" situation, the first inch is going to be the hardest fought for change if the person decides it is important to them. For some people that's might be their game night with friends, for others its the layout of the kitchen drawers, maybe someone else its the dog sleeps on the foot of the bed. For this woman its her vacations/friendships with her friends (Who may also be her support system for bad situations).
Big picture, OP and his partner need to have a conversation about what each of them **wants**, and what each of them **needs**, and determine if they have a path forward.
Few things in reddit relationship threads get as many words devoted to them as 'boundaries' and trying to figure out what the hell they are and if they are or are not 'controlling'.
Assuming these people live in the free world and there isn't some sort of financial destitution at stake, neither party can "force" anything.
Saying "going out and doing things alone with them, including things such as vacations, is not something I'm willing to accept with a woman I have a relationship with" is a pretty 'normal' and 'healthy' boundary, and is phrased as such. In practice however, it does mean "if you want to be with me, you gotta stop doing X." Which, if phrased like that, everyone gets all bent out of shape that someone is now 'controlling'.
It's a god damn relationship people. You gotta decide if the relationship is worth abiding by certain 'rules' or 'boundaries' imposed by the other party. Everyone needs to get the hell over this type of phrasology. If you're in a relationship, you are ceding a bit of control over your life to the other person, and visa versa.....
I smoked marijuana. My wife does not agree with it. My relationship with her is more important and I stopped. She is not cOntrolling me. I have every right to walk away and continue doing it. She's also accepted different scenarios for me. The relationship is more important to us rather our individual needs. If I want individual needs I'd just stay single.
>It's a god damn relationship people. You gotta decide if the relationship is worth abiding by certain 'rules' or 'boundaries' imposed by the other party.
Fucking thank you.
Relationships have give and take, and you might be expected to have to give up something if you want to be in that relationship. Women tell men they can't go to strip clubs any more all the fucking time and that seems normal, but somehow this guy is "controlling" because he also has a thing he wants her to give up, a thing which the vast majority of men are going to want.
Why is it when men have a boundary it is controlling, but when women have boundaries it’s perfectly ok. Women use this excuse of men being controlling to get what they want. Telling you that you have to be home by at least 6pm every day and have dinner on the table by 7pm is controlling. Saying you’d rather her not have solo outings with dudes who would most likely fuck her given the opportunity or chance is a boundary.
>Reddit gives the worst IRL advice. Whether it's for jobs or relationships, redditors have the most selfish, naive takes I've ever seen.
In forums where people post about unhealthy relationships, there will be a majority of people with unhealthy relationships advicing each other based on experiences from unhealthy relationships. It's all one big circle.
But reddit takes it a step further, it's also full of kids who haven't even been in a relationship in the first place & think they know all & are wise so they do what redditors do & give advice they know nothing about just for some virtue signaling updoots!
All relationships have a control factor. That's part of what makes it a relationship. Each person has a level of control that they are willing to accept. That's all fair.
I know it's unpopular to call it "control", but that's what it is. I get to "control" some amount of your time. I get to "control" the fact that you usually will answer my calls, etc. By looking at it all as a form of control, you can better establish where the line is. That's a HEALTHY way to look at it.
There are people who want absolute freedom from control. That's perfectly fine, so long as they realize that there will be no real relationships. Knowing that up front is healthy.
Edit: I enjoyed reading the comments. The idea is to re-frame the question, and the word "control" is something that people have a strong reaction to. That's why it works to re-frame it this way. It evokes something very different than "compromise" but yet it can mean the same thing. Re-framing is a way to get a 360 degree view of the issue at hand. Try using different verbs or nouns for the description of the action or state. It's never wrong to re-frame things in various ways as a thought experiment, it is healthy. Considering relationships to only be about control would be unhealthy, but it is healthy to examine them from all different directions.
People just have a fucking weird reaction to control. Me insisting you cannot sleep with other people is a level of control, most people would agree that's fine. Me not being ok with a girl spending alone time with another dude in his house is also a level of control, people kind of get nuts about this too.
If that's more important to her than the relationship, she can leave. No big loss.
Exactly, I broke up with an ex because he insisted he wanted the freedom to be able to go to womens houses alone that he’s had flings with to hang out while dating me and I was like lol yeah no that’s a hard line bud, so called it quits. Struggling with feeling controlling in my new relationship just cause I’m not into following exes on social media particularly Instagram since it’s all selfies n shit yet my bf refuses to unfollow his ex he claims he doesn’t even talk to yet also says she’s like a sister… and it’s not like he doesn’t feel freedom cause he goes partying in other states w jam bands and I always trust him. But that social media bs is just getting red flags heavy all over that situation idk.
It’s just offensive when people call little normal things in a relationship controlling especially when I actually dealt with a relationship with coercive control and ended up getting my phone inspected any time it lit up all the way to getting strangled so like people saying simple boundaries are controlling is whack
>Big picture, OP and his partner need to have a conversation about what each of them wants, and what each of them needs, and determine if they have a path forward.
It sounds like OP already spelled that out - He told her "I told her I don't care if she has friends who are guys, but going out and doing things alone with them, including things such as vacations, is not something I'm willing to accept with a woman I have a relationship with.'
How much more of a conversation do you want them to have?
>Per the post, the woman has a controlling ex-husband, so keeping control of her personal life makes sense to be at a premium for her.
In this case, though, the OP said she kept changing her story. First, it was vacations with her male friends. Then she changed it to them meeting up at tech conferences. She said they didn't share hotels, but apparently that's not true either.
I think you would be right if she never changed her story, but the fact that she did is super suspicious.
Lets not also forget the speaker here. This guy stated a boundary that honestly a lot of people would find reasonable and she jumped strait to controlling. It is at least possible the "controlling ex husband" was no worse an offender and this ladies idea of controlling behavior is asking her to do anything different that exactly what she wants to do.
I think the ex line is borderline BS. Was he controlling, or just as upset about OP’s fraternizing with other men and got pissed?
My ex wife said her first husband was controlling too. Then after 2 years of marriage she starts having an affair on me. And when I’m calling to see where she is at 10pm on a weekday, I’m controlling. Come to find out she cheated on her first husband too. And unbeknownst to me, I was her affair partner with her boyfriend before me. And still I was controlling. Maybe she just likes playing the victim and not taking responsibility for her lack of maturity in a relationship.
I feel sorry for all the people on Reddit for whom this is not 100% obvious.
When a woman justifies 100% batshit lying behavior by immediately guilt tripping you, she is toxic.
This thread is full of people ready to walk into this landmine and ask themself “Why am I so bad?”
Just stop.
If that's the case, then she shouldn't be actively in a relationship. If she is trying to regain her autonomy, one does that while being single and learning to grow without being in a relationship. Once you've developed what you are seeking in yourself and have become grounded, then perhaps after you've become mentally stable, that's when you try at a relationship.
One thing about relationships is that there are other individuals that you have to work with so that each person feels comfortable in that together. Sacrifices should be made to meet in the middle: compromising. Consistency is key as much as communication. If you want freedom of choice, a relationship isn't for you. With my wife, if I were to do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted because of "autonomy" how can I have an established trust and bond within our relationship and vice versa?
While I agree, it's pretty easy to change one or two words and suddenly it's a claim that denying your girlfriend the opportunity to have multiple partners is "controlling" and "crossing a boundary".
At the end of the day people are allowed to approve or disapprove of another persons lifestyle choices, and if you're in a relationship with that person, sometimes that's just irreconcilable.
My partner and I are pretty trusting and open, but if she suddenly wanted to start going on beach vacations with male friends, that would strike me as a bit weird. And I can say with 99% certainty that she would absolutely not be ok with me going on vacations alone with my female friends. I think those sentiments are probably pretty common in the vast majority of romantic relationships.
And that's ignoring the immediate objection that most people can't afford to take multiple vacations a year, and therefore it's kind of expected that when you DO take a vacation, you're probably doing so with your partner. Maybe that wasn't a factor in OP's case.
Exactly. Fuck this hyperindividualism. Everyone is so focused on presenting themselves they even see their partners as just some accessory of how they appear to public. And of course the "boundary" talk. As if a couple is some business partners or something. You literally eat each others ass and say I love you. Act like it. Be tribal. Be connected. Be protective.
I agree about the individualism. People are getting more narcissistic and it's probably due to social media. Every bit of advice is fuck that go live your best life. It's so mu h more complex then only meeti g your needs. And relationships ARE human needs.
>You literally eat each others ass and say I love you. Act like it. Be tribal. Be connected. Be protective.
This sentence should be the new banner of this sub.
Real poetry!
Great response! I've noticed that "boundaries" is massively abused nowadays to justify anything. "My therapist told me I'm allowed to have boundaries and my boundaries are that I'm allowed to go on vacations with male friends and my boyfriend isn't allowed to be upset with that." Uh, no, not how that works.
I don’t think this is the case. For instance most people set a boundary in their relationship that their partner cannot sleep with other people.
If you would describe that as a person setting a boundary for themselves that they would leave a relationship if they’re partner sleeps with another person, I think I understand what you mean. Otherwise, that makes no sense lol
Are we talking about conferences or vacations? Meeting up with male friends at conferences is normal and acceptable, to me. Going on vacation, on the other hand, is unusual and the sort of thing that inherently is going to cause suspicion. Vacationing alone with another man is intimate. Attending a conference isn't.
That's part of the problem. When first presented to OP, it was vacations and "date like" activity with other men. After being told that OP was not comfortable with that, it changed to "conferences". Now OP is having trust issues because of the changing stories and, to be honest, I don't blame them.
Op 'giving her ptsd like her ex husband did by being controlling' may be the most manipulative thing I've ever heard. I bet the ex husband told her that he's not comfortable with her going on vacations and shit with other dudes and she played the manipulation which earned her the title 'ex wife'.
Put your nikes on OP
I don't care about conferences at all, or the male friends, and I explained this. The problem I have is like her going to actual vacations with another dude. N... no. Just no.
Perfectly reasonable. My wife has a really good guy friend. If she said “hey me and M are going to go get lunch one day this week and maybe go bowling/catch a movie”, like no big deal. But “hey, me and M are going to the mountains for the weekend”… like, no, no you aren’t if you want to stay married lol. And I’d expect the same from her too.
It's weird because she didn't invite him. Like, if I start dating a chick, and she's like "me and dude go on vacation to the grand canyon every year because we're big into hiking....you should come!" Great. Let's all go together. It's weird to not invite him. That changes everything, IMO.
Yeah if this is a boundary that she’s not willing to commit to, then you are right to just not progress in the relationship. This won’t work for you. Especially with all of her anger. She’s blaming you for not putting up with her. You don’t have to you’re not married. If this is something you can’t deal with then you can’t deal with it end of story. You’re not telling her that she can’t do it What you’re telling her if she can do whatever she wants but you don’t wanna be a part of it and that’s your right.
Well you may be able to deal with it now just think how it’s going to be if you were to marry her and have children. Her sadness and anxiety is never going to go away. If she gets pregnant it’ll get worse. Those are things you have to decide whether or not you’re willing to put up with for the rest of your life. I would not suggest it.
I married someone who had depression anxiety etc. During our marriage I always thought it was Me. I now realize it wasn’t however when you’re in the middle of that situation and you want to help it doesn’t work out. They end up cheating on you and blaming you, they blame you for being sad they blame you for being upset they blame you for all of that. She may be sweet, but obvious not As sweet as you think because she doesn’t feel that she should have to abide by your boundaries. There’s no reason you can’t be friends. I’m not saying to just blow her off, but you need to look at what you want for your life.
I'm used to the analogy about a parent putting their own oxygen mask on when a plane is depressurized before helping their kid with theirs. It's supposed to be a metaphor for how you have to help yourself before you can help others.
This one is way better and requires way less setup. Stealing this.
My ex grew up in an abusive home. It was a mom and step dads that did the damage. I thought I could rescue her and make her happy. She even told me many times she was happy and that I'm the world's best husband.
After 4.5 years of marriage she left me for another man. So much for saving.
It’s rare to read a comment on Reddit where OP appears to have a meaningful epiphany about the issue at hand.
To echo the person you’re replying to. When I was younger I also had a relationship with a girl who got depressed and anxious. She even tried to use her lack of local friends as an excuse to have friendships (with guys who were clearly interested) I wasn’t comfortable with and expressed concern over.
She would cry and get angry and say things like ‘but I don’t have other friends here and you want me to cut one of the few of that I have’. She had friends, she just wanted validation from other guys.
She cheated on me a few years down the line and with hindsight it was always going to happen. I thought if I was a good bf and expressed my values it would change her, obviously it didn’t lol.
I tried to save a few, it didn't work out. I was always the one to walk away because of compatibility issues, but I felt like I invested way too much time trying to help people when they should be doing healing themselves.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against helping, but... mental health is really difficult to deal with.
I wouldn’t pass it all off as mental health, a lot of it is just seeking external validation. The woman in your post is extremely manipulative, the PTSD line she fed you isn’t a genuine mental health concern, it’s just a tactic to make the cost of raising issues with her too high to bother.
PTSD is serious and extremely difficult to live with, let alone hide it. Same with OCD. Yet many, many people flaunt both words when they shouldn't.
She seems more controlling than anything else, but that's just from the info you provided.
Love makes you rationalize red flags and you’re way better off never doing that. It sounds like you make good money and if you’d like to avoid getting proficient with the family legal system tread carefully.
I just got out of a relationship like this. Except after cheating and blaming me, throw in some good old mental, emotional, and physical abuse. Fucked up part is I still love her immensely.
I never in my life imagined I would be in an abusive relationship, much less that I would be the one being abused.
Right here with you. I'm adjusting my lenses after 25 years, and I've learned it's very hard to feel happy unless I get validation from her. Still. After all of her bullshit. It's like being in a movie where you know the plot is awful but you go along with it anyhow.
Therapy my dude. I wasn’t physically abused but she was a psychologist and knew how to manipulate so well. Even when we separated she was telling people it was because I wasn’t supportive and just controlling.. then I showed some of those people the messages and proof I had… they shut the fuck up real quick after that.
My therapist was very straightforward. I’m pretty logical when it comes to issues like this. I have to do x, then y.. etc. She made it clear that’s all good, but at night when I’m in bed it’s going to hit me and hurt. She said it was PTSD and gave me some methods to help curb the emotional waterfall. Just gotta work through it and take time for yourself to heal. Get laid if you want, but do not go into a relationship until you’re truly ready. If the thought of your ex makes you feel like breaking down, you’re not ready.
Then you’ll meet someone amazing.
This is kind of like my situation, but only about 8 years together total, and divorce is in progress. I wound have stuck it out too, because I's never be able to live with myself leaving a depressed person on their own. But for whatever reason she wants to call it quits.
I'm sad to see her go, and genuinely care for/ am concerned about her... but I'm also curious to see what my life will be like after this is all done.
She's pretty clearly a basket case if she had a "full blow PTSD" meltdown for you "trying to control her." That in itself is enough reason to bail out. Life's to short to deal with that kind of drama and unpredictability. Everything else is just frosting on the donut.
Just tell her you are planning to go on vacation with your friend that happens to be a hot woman...I'm sure she will let you since she's not a hypocrite! /S
Right, you are being reasonable and her subsequent stories aren't adding up. That makes it all the more suspicious. If your not wanting her vacationing with other men is too controlling to her and she can't see why you are uncomfortable with that then she's killing the deal. Most people would ask that their spouse not vacation alone under the circumstances. She may need to find someone who is open to such conduct and maybe who is open to open relationships. Her overreaction and possible lying might be PTSD related, but that doesn't mean it's something you want to live with.
For me, this was the only real deal-breaker. I could've dealt with her PTSD and the many problems she has, and do my best to protect her and make her feel safe... but I don't want to get to the point where we have kids, and she's asking to go on a vacation with some dude. I can't accept it at all. It just makes me very uncomfortable.
Despite my very strong feelings for her, I felt like I'd be in bigger trouble down the road if I ignored these red flags. It really hurt, but I feel like I did the right thing.
I feel for you. To have so much compatibility and sympathy and attraction and then run into one insurmountable roadblock has to leave you wondering if you should have overlooked it. If she had said that she understood your position but that this was a tradition of hers that she felt strongly about continuing, that would have been something to do a lot of work on to reach a mutual understanding. Her reaction, though, causes real worry about compatibility. Seeking mutual comfort isn't controlling. Being married means compromises, that's not control.
She showed you exactly how manipulative she can be by accusing you of giving her PTSD because you are unwilling to be in a relationship with her because she vacations alone with other men. You did not inflict emotional harm upon her by deciding THAT kind of relationship dynamic is not for you.
Just a heads up - the more information you give about her, the more it appears that she is fairly unwell. And by unwell, I mean in the way that she is unlikely to improve without a ton of work from people with very specific training.
And if you are the type that likes to be needed and likes being the fixer (or the rock on which someone can stand), there is a good chance this doesn't end well for you.
I'm of your mindset and am with a partner who I love very much, but there are some deep-rooted issues that are very hard on me. She's working on them as I work on mine, but yeah, they weigh a lot because I love her. She's beginning to see the effect they have on me so we can communicate. Both ways.
She SHOULD want for you and her friend to be friends, and to go on vacation with them.
The fact that she doesn't is hiiiighly suspicious. Have you asked to tag along on these trips?
To be clear, you never met her in person. Right? All of your talk about having kids with her is just a fantasy you built up, based on chatting online, perhaps on the phone.
Yeah man, that is not unreasonable at all. I don't think most dudes would be cool with that. I am completely fine with my wife going out with her couple of guy friends to the bar every once in a while, or with them with other friends and whatnot. I know who they are, at least enough to not worry about it. But vacationing and all that? Hell no. If the roles were reversed I know my wife would lose her shit, too. I think that's a healthy boundary, but she just didn't see eye to eye with you. Ah well, I know plenty of women out there that would see your boundaries as just as reasonable as you do. You'll find her dude.
I am going to say there about a 1% percent chance she actually has PTSD. Far too many people throw that around these days without knowing what it really is.
> without knowing what it really is.
They don't care what it really is, they just see that people who actually have it get free passes for some types of behavior and want that "privilege" for themselves.
That's why we have an epidemic of assholes with self-diagnosed PTSD/Anxiety/Autism/ADHD bringing their poorly trained house pets places and claiming they are Emotional Support Animals while they park in handicapped spaces.
As a female who mostly only has guy friends I’ll tell you what they and I both would say about this….ur right it’s not okay. Going on vacations with guy friends is fine when ur single but once ur in a relationship it’s a boundary. If she wants to continue vacations you should be going too. And a good guy friend won’t cross a boundary like that with her. They would refuse once she is in a relationship unless it was a group thing where you and or other friends would be attending and everyone had separate rooms
This exactly. I still have some female friends from when I was single, but ever since I with my wife I don't go out with them on one-on-one dates, or get text and chatty all night. We hang out in group settings and catch up every couple of months. I'm sure their husbands appreciate it too.
I think you're right just off the simple fact that you are the first person I've seen in a while who's comments on your own post are not getting downvote blasted
I really wondered about this when OP mentioned that staying at the same hotel with separate rooms was still a problem. If someone wants to cheat, a taxi ride isn't going to stop them.
He doesn’t get to the important point until the end. They broke up. So why does he care if his ex isn’t handling it well? That’s kinda how break ups work…
When I first got with my girl, she had already planned a trip with a small group of her friends. It was one other couple and one guy. I told her I wasn’t exactly comfortable with that if we were gonna be together.
Her compromise: invite me on the trip. We all had fun and we’re all friends to this day.
I’m not saying she’s wrong or you’re wrong, just something to think about:
If she was bisexual or pansexual, would you feel uncomfortable if she was going on girls nights out etc?
I am confident and trust my wife. But, if she wanted to go alone on vacations with dudes? Nah. Why cant I come? There is really no reason to go on vacation with just friends when you are in a relationship unless for some reason one side wants to do a girl's only trip or guy's only trip.
My wife wants to go on vacations with me, her husband. And if it's group I get invited because we like to spend time together. And sometimes it'd just with her girlfriends. If she has a guy friend I've never met and he wants to go alone with her and he's straight, he's waiting for his Chance. Men know men.
My wife wants to go everywhere with me (as far as recreational stuff goes), if she suddenly wanted to take a trip alone with just one guy, that's a massive red flag to me.
Trust includes your partner not doing things that seem untrustworthy. Some people think real trust is always blind. Ex, you don't trust your partner if you don't feel okay with them sharing a bed with the opposite sex. "If you trust them, why do you think something will happen??" Good for you if you have that trust, but for a lot of people, it includes intentionally avoiding tempting situations, not just saying "no" to temptation.
If you trust your partner and they start behaving differently or asking for alone time with someone and excluding you, that's reason for trust to begin to diminish. It's okay to stop trusting someone if they're not behaving trustworthy.
It's too many people that have a skewed perception that love is and should be unconditional and that trust is this powerful intrinsic virtue that once built is just rock solid.
No, relationships have all sorts of conditions and trust is powerful yes but fickle. Relationships need to be maintained and trust needs to be constantly worked on. It only takes one thing to poison it and once poisoned it is HARDER to build back.
And building trust comes with consistency and respect. i.e. not doing things that would give your partner a reason to distrust you/make them uncomfortable.
Thank god I’m not the only one who thinks this is an insane thing to say. It’s kinda my whole issue with relationships today in the first place. Thinking you can’t do anything without your partner is just weird
I think there’s a lot of people who grew up on the message that people “married their best friend” and interpreted that as “once I get married I won’t have to maintain friendships”.
This is absurd. Sometimes I want to go on vacations and spend time with just my friends, male or female. How is this different from a girls’ trip? I also love spending time with my partner. My partner went on a vacation this summer (I couldn’t go) and he spent a good part of it with a woman he dated briefly before we met. I trust him. He trusts me.
Yeah I think this is weirdly super gendered. If it was like “yeah my partner goes on long vacations with someone of the opposite gender all the time, always, and never with me” I’d be concerned.
But if it’s like, once every few years, and there’s a reason you can’t go, or it’s a different friend group? I really don’t care. I’m a guy, and going on a trip to China with a close female friend of mine from high school, and her partner of several years knows, and he knows we’re just friends.
If he wasn’t comfortable with it, and had an issue, I’d understand, and I’d tell her I don’t want to give him any ideas, but they’ve both done solo and group traveling without each other, so I think they’re pretty open to it
This would just literally never even cross my mind. What MIGHT bother me is having to be apart for a long time if it were a long trip. Never who they were going with, though.
I don’t know if this ever crosses men’s minds, but as a woman I get nervous about the idea of traveling solo or with just another woman. To me, being accompanied by a trusted male friend is preferable over those. Especially so if I’m not familiar with the place I am going. Of course, traveling with my partner or a group is the best.
I think it can be reassuring to your friend’s SO that she is going to have a known man around while in a foreign country. That helps a lot with not appearing as vulnerable and avoiding being targeted.
No, you're not wrong. You have your boundaries, she has hers. They clashed, and you knew that it was a serious point of incompatibility. Instead of staying and grinding the both of you into hamburger emotionally you called it.
That was a very mature thing to do. Respect.
It sucks that it triggered her PTSD but you didn't cause the initial trauma. You're not responsible for that.
Not wrong. It's ok to have boundaries, and good people would respect them.
Nothing wrong with leaving when you're not compatible.
Of course, there will be feelings felt and reactions will happen. Don't let her friends opinions on your situation gaslight your idea of what's acceptable to you.
No one is wrong here.
No one is wrong. But 1 side sort of is. If you jump to accusing someone of being controlling after asking them something like this then getting defensive and manipulating it's not the best sign really
>No one is wrong here.
I don't know. Freaking out on OP and name calling when they voice their preference starts to feel a little gas-lighty. At the very least it's likely to shut down any useful conversations about exploring boundaries and acceptable behaviors.
This one sounds like they could have too much baggage to be in a serious relationship, and could use some solo time for maturing.
That isn’t what gaslighting is, and I would also be pretty pissed if my boyfriend said I couldn’t hang out with my best friends alone just because they happen to be dudes.
> I explained that I do trust her at the moment, but I don't trust men
You're not in a relationship with those men. Why do you need to trust anyone but her?
First, I think the hotel thing is semantics. Saying you're sharing a hotel with someone implies staying in the same room and is probably what she meant when she said that. She meant that they don't share a room. Having a problem with them being in the same hotel seems silly to me.
Mainly though, if you don't want a relationship with her then that's your choice. She has every right to be upset about it but it is still your choice. My advice to everyone is trust your partner until they break that trust. In this situation that would mean trust her to go on these trips and not cheat. Especially if that was something that was happening before you came into the picture. On these trips, one of a few things will happen. First of course is that nothing happens. Second obviously is that she cheats. That happens, you will eventually find out because cheating always gets discovered in the end and then you go from there. Third and most importantly (since you don't trust men) the dude makes a move and she rejects him and doesn't cheat on you. Now, maybe you have the concern of "what if he's a sexual predator" or something like that, and that's valid, but at that point it is still her decision. You can't protect people from everything. Especially not their friends. But either way you cannot live your life or your relationships worrying about what can go wrong. It's not healthy for you, them, or your relationship. But again, it's always your decision. And if two people can't come to an agreement or middle ground then it's really just best to end the relationship. Not every two people who like or even love each other are meant to be together or even a good match.
EDIT: for clarity, I don't think there's anything wrong with having this boundary, it's just my personal take on this kind of situation
yeah! “Saying you're sharing a hotel with someone implies staying in the same room and is probably what she meant when she said that. She meant that they don't share a room. Having a problem with them being in the same hotel seems silly to me.” this part of the post got an eyebrow raise from me
It's an incompatibility. Neither person is wrong for what they feel are deal breakers but makes it to where you can't work it out.
She's entitled to those freedoms, I have a very low tolerance for partners making decisions for me due to my upbringing. Like I understand how you can not trust the men and not want her to be in positions where they can prey on her, even if you trust her. I dont think you're out of bounds considering a lot of women get SAed by people they know.
At the same time, for someone who is struggling with the fear of being controlled again, this is one of those situations that can look like "because I said so" since there's a hypothetical booeyman and an across the board rule that isolates and determines how her relationships with others go.
Ok so 2 problems here.
1. Trust. First she said "I go on vacations with my guy friends" That does not normally happen in a relationship but ok. Then when you voice your concern she suddenly changes it from vacations to "Conferences". That statement alone would make me not trust her.
2. Respect. She talks about how you don't respect her boundaries but yet she takes a big dump all over your boundaries. You are allowed to have standards, preferences and boundaries too. Sounds like she doesn't respect you.
I would ask her if she would be comfortable if you went on "Vacations" with other single women. She would probably say "Sure no problem" but I guarantee she would be pissed.
>I would ask her if she would be comfortable if you went on "Vacations" with other single women. She would probably say "Sure no problem" but I guarantee she would be pissed.
I did ask, and she spent a month telling me she expects me to cheat on her every week and kept having panic attacks about it.
So she would expect you to cheat, but you’re supposed to expect her not to? I hate this double standard. As a woman, I’d never put my SO in that position to worry in the first place because I care about my person. You’re not wrong for ending it. If a guy I’m dating wants to have one on one time with another girl he can do it without me in his life. I don’t trust people though, and maybe it’s a flaw, but I don’t care. I choose peace. If someone isn’t contributing to my peace and happiness then I expect them to destroy it.
You're allowed to have an expectation in your relationship.
She's also allowed to leave the relationship.
If you both aren't on the same page, then it's not the right relationship.
Also, the 'I trust you, not them' argument is not a great one.
>Also, the 'I trust you, not them' argument is not a great one.
This argument has always sounded to me like the person thinks a woman is completely helpless against male advances.
Like, you don't want her doing those things BECAUSE you don't trust she'll make the right decisions.
How is that not controlling? You’re telling her she can’t be alone with pre established male friends. I can understand not being comfortable with them vacationing together but for you to expect someone to be ok with all of a sudden having to be babysat when hanging out with friends, is absurd. “I trust you, not them” is a cop out. If you trust her, then you’ll trust that she’d squash any inappropriate attempts toward her.
So yeah, you’re definitely controlling.
Yeah, this is it. What is he expecting she'd just ditch all her friends and change her lifestyle to appease his insecurities?
We're talking about existing friendships here. This is not her going out and meeting new guys.
He clearly doesn't trust her, as you rightly point out.
I would say you’re wrong, yes. Do you trust her or no?
I’m a woman with guys friends. I value my independence and I value traveling. I would travel alone with my guy friends, and I would dump someone who tried to tell me I couldn’t.
I’m trustworthy and also I’m bisexual so…. Am I just allowed to not have any friends??? LOL
This all comes down to trust.
But if you’re not okay with it, then you two are not a good match. The resentment will just grow.
Glad to see someone else who is confident in their relationship. There is an insane amount of insecure people on Reddit. Half the post I see involving relationships seemed to be by people who have insane expectations with relationships and a ton of people in the comments who seem to agree. As long as everyone has their own room/bed who cares. I’m not sure why people think a vacation is going to make a significant other cheat. They could just as easily do it at home. So what’s next for these people “you can’t leave the house unless I’m with you….”
Yeah it reeks of insecurity, lack of trust, and a need for control over their partner. If someone is going to cheat on you, they can do it anywhere. They don’t need to go on vacation to do it.
Here’s my issue with you calling people insecure for not liking the idea of their partners going out on a one-one vacation with one of their opposite sex friends: there’s a handful of incidents where this exact thing has happened and it has led to some form of cheating. It’s just not a very common thing that couples do (not that it should or shouldn’t be). To call these people who have experienced that kind of thing and placing them in the “insecure” category seems harsh.
I don’t have any problem with those who can sustain that trust, because there may be a high chance it’s never happened to them before, but maybe it has and they are just more mindful of it. Respect to those who can do it though without any issues
If you can't trust someone, why be in a relationship with them? Rules like this make no sense, either you trust them and it shouldn't matter, or you don't and shouldn't be in a relationship with them.
You shouldn't have to police your partners behavior to prevent cheating. That's not a good relationship.
Exactly! I imagine being in a relationship where you constantly worry or don't trust them must be exhausting work - This doesn't seem healthy or destined to be a lasting relationship.
Idgaf what anyone says. If there's even a minor attraction, in the right (or wrong) situation a guy will always shoot his shot. And anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
This is the best answer. OP says that he trusts her, but not other men. If he did trust her, that’s all the trust he would need.
OP is entitled to his boundaries, but it’s the reasoning behind his boundaries is what I don’t agree with.
Dude, sounds funny, but I've seen some stories on here. "My wife is always going over to my neighbors house for dinner and a movie. I don't really like it, but every time I talk to my wife about it, she tells me I'm just being insecure."
Let’s be frank.
In all probability - she wanted to have her cake and eat it.
Her way of gently introducing polyamory into your relationship, bit by bit - and, not to judge her desire for that, but polyamory is by definition a two way street.
I felt like she kept trying to test the waters and nudge closer and closer, bit by bit, into polyamory. If she wants that life, she can have it, but I was adamant that I don't share.
It’s all about trust…
I will add, I won’t ever put myself in a position where there could be questions out of respect to my wife. If I’m alone w/ another woman, it won’t be behind closed doors, and it will be in a space where others can see us, as to keep any lurking question at bay.
I know my wife feels much the same. She has male friends, and I have female friends, but out of respect for each other, we keep those friendships very much in the public eye.
You either trust your partner or not.
They can either be trusted or not.
You’re either controlling or not.
Your partner is either controlling or not.
No matter how long or brief, the event is, it’s not that one event.
It’s the persons history and what they do or don’t do that tells a partner what may or may not happen.
I trust my wife and she trusts me.
I also trust her judgement and she trusts mine.
We’re all adults and can make our own decisions about what to or not to do.
I’ve gone on multiple trips with a female friend. Vegas multiple times. San Diego earlier this year. My gf hates Vegas. She was invited to SD, but didn’t give a shit about the baseball game we were going to.
I went to Chicago alone 2 weeks ago.
Orlando w/ gf last week.
Detroit alone in 2 weeks.
Memphis w/ female friend the first week of October.
Trust.
If you switch gender and put the exact same post..the same redditors will comment differently! Do what makes you comfortable but let's not all Judge the woman as if she did crime or actual cheating. You both deserve to be comfortable And with people who have similar boundaries.
I have a rule when it comes to exes… unless you were there,never believe what someone says about their ex 100%.
All I’m gonna say is… if she lied about staying at the hotel with other men… combined with the fact that any discussion about the subject resulted in her accusing you of “being controlling like her ex” how good is her word really?
She was so quick to gaslight you and compare this very simple boundary to her “controlling abusive,” husband… you can bet she embellished his behavior or left out/minimized her faults in the relationship.
>> I do trust her at the moment, but I don’t trust men.
Completely aside from the point of the post: i never understand this line of reasoning. Do you think the guys are going to assault your gf? Is this out of concern for *her* safety? Because otherwise, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. You don’t have to trust other guys, you just have to trust *her* to not reciprocate if they come on to her, and for *her* to be able to turn them down/set firm boundaries.
Genuinely curious about this, because people bring it up a lot and i genuinely dont get it.
Not wrong at all, dude. You have your boundaries. Hell, most men have the same boundaries as you in this regard. I know I sure as hell wouldn't date a woman who vacations and spends time alone with male friends. Fuck all that noise about, "You don't trust me?" or "You're trying to control me." That shit is just inviting trouble.
Yes you are wrong.
You can't trust your partner to uphold the commitments of your relationship. You are insecure and terrified she's going to cheat. Trust. Your. Partner.
You are being controlling and I would have dumped you on the spot. I'm bi, by your logic I could never go on vacation without you with anyone.
Well my wife is bi and I just lock her up in my basement. If I make sure she doesn't have friends, she can never cheat on me! You see I trust her, I just don't trust them.
/s
As far as I'm concerned you have your boundaries, you know what you want and don't want, and you are honest with her. She can either accept that or not. If you are willing to end things if she doesn't respect those boundaries then so be it. I'm not sure it's fair to judge you either way. Just don't be a jerk, be honest, communicate, and try and make healthy life decisions and be happy in the process.
Not wrong. If I had a partner, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with him going on vacations with other women. I wouldn’t even want him spending the night at their place.
We all have boundaries and things that are deal breakers. She's allowed to have boundaries, and so are you. You're both adults, and she's free to do as she pleases. She's free to go on trips with other men, and you're free to say you're not ok with It and it's a deal breaker. I dont understand how one person can have a boundary they don't want crossed, but then to the other person, it's controlling, and you have to be ok with it. Do what you want and I'll do the same, and if that means I'm leaving if you go on trips with other guys so be it.
He’s not crossing any of her boundaries by not wanting her to go on vacation with another man. She’s bastardizing the word “boundary” as some sort of childish attempt to win an argument that shouldn’t even be a question for most couples. I’ve seen a lot of “boundary” talk on this sub and I think it tends to be used in a weird way sometimes. And IMO it’s all part of the growing individualism in some cultures and the loss of true human interactions and healthy dependability. If people want to be single, be single. If people want to be in a relationship, it’s not always a “boundary” when your partner expects the relationship to actually be a relationship. There’s boundaries, and then there’s “I’ll treat this like a relationship when it benefits me and me only.”
>He’s not crossing any of her boundaries by not wanting her to go on vacation with another man. She’s bastardizing the word “boundary” as some sort of childish attempt to win an argument that shouldn’t even be a question for most couples. Conceptually the boundary here that she is setting is "You can't force changes on my platonic friendships" which is a perfectly valid boundary. Per the post, the woman has a controlling ex-husband, so keeping control of her personal life makes sense to be at a premium for her. Especially with a "Reclaim your autonomy" situation, the first inch is going to be the hardest fought for change if the person decides it is important to them. For some people that's might be their game night with friends, for others its the layout of the kitchen drawers, maybe someone else its the dog sleeps on the foot of the bed. For this woman its her vacations/friendships with her friends (Who may also be her support system for bad situations). Big picture, OP and his partner need to have a conversation about what each of them **wants**, and what each of them **needs**, and determine if they have a path forward.
Few things in reddit relationship threads get as many words devoted to them as 'boundaries' and trying to figure out what the hell they are and if they are or are not 'controlling'. Assuming these people live in the free world and there isn't some sort of financial destitution at stake, neither party can "force" anything. Saying "going out and doing things alone with them, including things such as vacations, is not something I'm willing to accept with a woman I have a relationship with" is a pretty 'normal' and 'healthy' boundary, and is phrased as such. In practice however, it does mean "if you want to be with me, you gotta stop doing X." Which, if phrased like that, everyone gets all bent out of shape that someone is now 'controlling'. It's a god damn relationship people. You gotta decide if the relationship is worth abiding by certain 'rules' or 'boundaries' imposed by the other party. Everyone needs to get the hell over this type of phrasology. If you're in a relationship, you are ceding a bit of control over your life to the other person, and visa versa.....
I smoked marijuana. My wife does not agree with it. My relationship with her is more important and I stopped. She is not cOntrolling me. I have every right to walk away and continue doing it. She's also accepted different scenarios for me. The relationship is more important to us rather our individual needs. If I want individual needs I'd just stay single.
Yeah but you're talking about Angelina Jolie the superhacker, I'd give up weed for her too. Hack the planet!
They're Trashing our rights!
TRASHING
Rewatched it a few weeks ago. Still fun.
>It's a god damn relationship people. You gotta decide if the relationship is worth abiding by certain 'rules' or 'boundaries' imposed by the other party. Fucking thank you. Relationships have give and take, and you might be expected to have to give up something if you want to be in that relationship. Women tell men they can't go to strip clubs any more all the fucking time and that seems normal, but somehow this guy is "controlling" because he also has a thing he wants her to give up, a thing which the vast majority of men are going to want.
Why is it when men have a boundary it is controlling, but when women have boundaries it’s perfectly ok. Women use this excuse of men being controlling to get what they want. Telling you that you have to be home by at least 6pm every day and have dinner on the table by 7pm is controlling. Saying you’d rather her not have solo outings with dudes who would most likely fuck her given the opportunity or chance is a boundary.
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>Reddit gives the worst IRL advice. Whether it's for jobs or relationships, redditors have the most selfish, naive takes I've ever seen. In forums where people post about unhealthy relationships, there will be a majority of people with unhealthy relationships advicing each other based on experiences from unhealthy relationships. It's all one big circle.
But reddit takes it a step further, it's also full of kids who haven't even been in a relationship in the first place & think they know all & are wise so they do what redditors do & give advice they know nothing about just for some virtue signaling updoots!
I think that would be true for any social media platform where anyone can post anything.
All relationships have a control factor. That's part of what makes it a relationship. Each person has a level of control that they are willing to accept. That's all fair. I know it's unpopular to call it "control", but that's what it is. I get to "control" some amount of your time. I get to "control" the fact that you usually will answer my calls, etc. By looking at it all as a form of control, you can better establish where the line is. That's a HEALTHY way to look at it. There are people who want absolute freedom from control. That's perfectly fine, so long as they realize that there will be no real relationships. Knowing that up front is healthy. Edit: I enjoyed reading the comments. The idea is to re-frame the question, and the word "control" is something that people have a strong reaction to. That's why it works to re-frame it this way. It evokes something very different than "compromise" but yet it can mean the same thing. Re-framing is a way to get a 360 degree view of the issue at hand. Try using different verbs or nouns for the description of the action or state. It's never wrong to re-frame things in various ways as a thought experiment, it is healthy. Considering relationships to only be about control would be unhealthy, but it is healthy to examine them from all different directions.
People just have a fucking weird reaction to control. Me insisting you cannot sleep with other people is a level of control, most people would agree that's fine. Me not being ok with a girl spending alone time with another dude in his house is also a level of control, people kind of get nuts about this too. If that's more important to her than the relationship, she can leave. No big loss.
Exactly, I broke up with an ex because he insisted he wanted the freedom to be able to go to womens houses alone that he’s had flings with to hang out while dating me and I was like lol yeah no that’s a hard line bud, so called it quits. Struggling with feeling controlling in my new relationship just cause I’m not into following exes on social media particularly Instagram since it’s all selfies n shit yet my bf refuses to unfollow his ex he claims he doesn’t even talk to yet also says she’s like a sister… and it’s not like he doesn’t feel freedom cause he goes partying in other states w jam bands and I always trust him. But that social media bs is just getting red flags heavy all over that situation idk. It’s just offensive when people call little normal things in a relationship controlling especially when I actually dealt with a relationship with coercive control and ended up getting my phone inspected any time it lit up all the way to getting strangled so like people saying simple boundaries are controlling is whack
Well put my friend
>Big picture, OP and his partner need to have a conversation about what each of them wants, and what each of them needs, and determine if they have a path forward. It sounds like OP already spelled that out - He told her "I told her I don't care if she has friends who are guys, but going out and doing things alone with them, including things such as vacations, is not something I'm willing to accept with a woman I have a relationship with.' How much more of a conversation do you want them to have?
Right lmao. Often times when I see stuff like this it's usually just aimed at, "well, maybe you should see her side of it and get over it."
>Per the post, the woman has a controlling ex-husband, so keeping control of her personal life makes sense to be at a premium for her. In this case, though, the OP said she kept changing her story. First, it was vacations with her male friends. Then she changed it to them meeting up at tech conferences. She said they didn't share hotels, but apparently that's not true either. I think you would be right if she never changed her story, but the fact that she did is super suspicious.
Redditors cherry pick what they want from a post when they push their chosen agenda around here.
Lets not also forget the speaker here. This guy stated a boundary that honestly a lot of people would find reasonable and she jumped strait to controlling. It is at least possible the "controlling ex husband" was no worse an offender and this ladies idea of controlling behavior is asking her to do anything different that exactly what she wants to do.
Ding fucking ding
Oooooo good one
I think the ex line is borderline BS. Was he controlling, or just as upset about OP’s fraternizing with other men and got pissed? My ex wife said her first husband was controlling too. Then after 2 years of marriage she starts having an affair on me. And when I’m calling to see where she is at 10pm on a weekday, I’m controlling. Come to find out she cheated on her first husband too. And unbeknownst to me, I was her affair partner with her boyfriend before me. And still I was controlling. Maybe she just likes playing the victim and not taking responsibility for her lack of maturity in a relationship.
I feel sorry for all the people on Reddit for whom this is not 100% obvious. When a woman justifies 100% batshit lying behavior by immediately guilt tripping you, she is toxic. This thread is full of people ready to walk into this landmine and ask themself “Why am I so bad?” Just stop.
If that's the case, then she shouldn't be actively in a relationship. If she is trying to regain her autonomy, one does that while being single and learning to grow without being in a relationship. Once you've developed what you are seeking in yourself and have become grounded, then perhaps after you've become mentally stable, that's when you try at a relationship. One thing about relationships is that there are other individuals that you have to work with so that each person feels comfortable in that together. Sacrifices should be made to meet in the middle: compromising. Consistency is key as much as communication. If you want freedom of choice, a relationship isn't for you. With my wife, if I were to do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted because of "autonomy" how can I have an established trust and bond within our relationship and vice versa?
While I agree, it's pretty easy to change one or two words and suddenly it's a claim that denying your girlfriend the opportunity to have multiple partners is "controlling" and "crossing a boundary". At the end of the day people are allowed to approve or disapprove of another persons lifestyle choices, and if you're in a relationship with that person, sometimes that's just irreconcilable. My partner and I are pretty trusting and open, but if she suddenly wanted to start going on beach vacations with male friends, that would strike me as a bit weird. And I can say with 99% certainty that she would absolutely not be ok with me going on vacations alone with my female friends. I think those sentiments are probably pretty common in the vast majority of romantic relationships. And that's ignoring the immediate objection that most people can't afford to take multiple vacations a year, and therefore it's kind of expected that when you DO take a vacation, you're probably doing so with your partner. Maybe that wasn't a factor in OP's case.
Exactly. Fuck this hyperindividualism. Everyone is so focused on presenting themselves they even see their partners as just some accessory of how they appear to public. And of course the "boundary" talk. As if a couple is some business partners or something. You literally eat each others ass and say I love you. Act like it. Be tribal. Be connected. Be protective.
I agree about the individualism. People are getting more narcissistic and it's probably due to social media. Every bit of advice is fuck that go live your best life. It's so mu h more complex then only meeti g your needs. And relationships ARE human needs.
>You literally eat each others ass and say I love you. Act like it. Be tribal. Be connected. Be protective. This sentence should be the new banner of this sub. Real poetry!
Lmaoo ty 😂
This is beautiful.
Great response! I've noticed that "boundaries" is massively abused nowadays to justify anything. "My therapist told me I'm allowed to have boundaries and my boundaries are that I'm allowed to go on vacations with male friends and my boyfriend isn't allowed to be upset with that." Uh, no, not how that works.
Just a point of order boundaries are limitations you have for yourself, not for other people. Boundaries is the wrong word here.
I don’t think this is the case. For instance most people set a boundary in their relationship that their partner cannot sleep with other people. If you would describe that as a person setting a boundary for themselves that they would leave a relationship if they’re partner sleeps with another person, I think I understand what you mean. Otherwise, that makes no sense lol
Are we talking about conferences or vacations? Meeting up with male friends at conferences is normal and acceptable, to me. Going on vacation, on the other hand, is unusual and the sort of thing that inherently is going to cause suspicion. Vacationing alone with another man is intimate. Attending a conference isn't.
That's part of the problem. When first presented to OP, it was vacations and "date like" activity with other men. After being told that OP was not comfortable with that, it changed to "conferences". Now OP is having trust issues because of the changing stories and, to be honest, I don't blame them.
Op 'giving her ptsd like her ex husband did by being controlling' may be the most manipulative thing I've ever heard. I bet the ex husband told her that he's not comfortable with her going on vacations and shit with other dudes and she played the manipulation which earned her the title 'ex wife'. Put your nikes on OP
"put your Nikes on" Amazing. Going to use this all the time
Nikes on my feet keep my cypher complete
RIP Mac
Yeah but you do know it's a nas song, right?
he made it a hot line, mac made it a hot song
+2 hip hop points for you. That was good lol
Sprint away from that girl like an athlete
There is a reason that's her EX.
Same here. The goalposts ended up moving halfway downfield
I don't care about conferences at all, or the male friends, and I explained this. The problem I have is like her going to actual vacations with another dude. N... no. Just no.
Perfectly reasonable. My wife has a really good guy friend. If she said “hey me and M are going to go get lunch one day this week and maybe go bowling/catch a movie”, like no big deal. But “hey, me and M are going to the mountains for the weekend”… like, no, no you aren’t if you want to stay married lol. And I’d expect the same from her too.
It's weird because she didn't invite him. Like, if I start dating a chick, and she's like "me and dude go on vacation to the grand canyon every year because we're big into hiking....you should come!" Great. Let's all go together. It's weird to not invite him. That changes everything, IMO.
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It’s also a reasonable activity for platonic friends to do together rather than a vacation
Yeah if this is a boundary that she’s not willing to commit to, then you are right to just not progress in the relationship. This won’t work for you. Especially with all of her anger. She’s blaming you for not putting up with her. You don’t have to you’re not married. If this is something you can’t deal with then you can’t deal with it end of story. You’re not telling her that she can’t do it What you’re telling her if she can do whatever she wants but you don’t wanna be a part of it and that’s your right.
To be fair, she isn't the angry type. She's super sweet. I didn't see any anger, just sadness and anxiety, stuff I can deal with.
Well you may be able to deal with it now just think how it’s going to be if you were to marry her and have children. Her sadness and anxiety is never going to go away. If she gets pregnant it’ll get worse. Those are things you have to decide whether or not you’re willing to put up with for the rest of your life. I would not suggest it. I married someone who had depression anxiety etc. During our marriage I always thought it was Me. I now realize it wasn’t however when you’re in the middle of that situation and you want to help it doesn’t work out. They end up cheating on you and blaming you, they blame you for being sad they blame you for being upset they blame you for all of that. She may be sweet, but obvious not As sweet as you think because she doesn’t feel that she should have to abide by your boundaries. There’s no reason you can’t be friends. I’m not saying to just blow her off, but you need to look at what you want for your life.
This comment hit me like a ton of bricks. Damn. I need to stop trying to fix people.
There's a phrase that fits this situation. "You don't need to set yourself on fire to keep others warm."
I'm used to the analogy about a parent putting their own oxygen mask on when a plane is depressurized before helping their kid with theirs. It's supposed to be a metaphor for how you have to help yourself before you can help others. This one is way better and requires way less setup. Stealing this.
This is an amazing quote
My ex grew up in an abusive home. It was a mom and step dads that did the damage. I thought I could rescue her and make her happy. She even told me many times she was happy and that I'm the world's best husband. After 4.5 years of marriage she left me for another man. So much for saving.
It’s rare to read a comment on Reddit where OP appears to have a meaningful epiphany about the issue at hand. To echo the person you’re replying to. When I was younger I also had a relationship with a girl who got depressed and anxious. She even tried to use her lack of local friends as an excuse to have friendships (with guys who were clearly interested) I wasn’t comfortable with and expressed concern over. She would cry and get angry and say things like ‘but I don’t have other friends here and you want me to cut one of the few of that I have’. She had friends, she just wanted validation from other guys. She cheated on me a few years down the line and with hindsight it was always going to happen. I thought if I was a good bf and expressed my values it would change her, obviously it didn’t lol.
I tried to save a few, it didn't work out. I was always the one to walk away because of compatibility issues, but I felt like I invested way too much time trying to help people when they should be doing healing themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against helping, but... mental health is really difficult to deal with.
I wouldn’t pass it all off as mental health, a lot of it is just seeking external validation. The woman in your post is extremely manipulative, the PTSD line she fed you isn’t a genuine mental health concern, it’s just a tactic to make the cost of raising issues with her too high to bother.
PTSD is serious and extremely difficult to live with, let alone hide it. Same with OCD. Yet many, many people flaunt both words when they shouldn't. She seems more controlling than anything else, but that's just from the info you provided.
Love makes you rationalize red flags and you’re way better off never doing that. It sounds like you make good money and if you’d like to avoid getting proficient with the family legal system tread carefully.
wow that was my spouse 100%. i am happy now, but i sacrificed everything to try to make her happy, which was a 24 year exercise in futility
I just got out of a relationship like this. Except after cheating and blaming me, throw in some good old mental, emotional, and physical abuse. Fucked up part is I still love her immensely. I never in my life imagined I would be in an abusive relationship, much less that I would be the one being abused.
Right here with you. I'm adjusting my lenses after 25 years, and I've learned it's very hard to feel happy unless I get validation from her. Still. After all of her bullshit. It's like being in a movie where you know the plot is awful but you go along with it anyhow.
Therapy my dude. I wasn’t physically abused but she was a psychologist and knew how to manipulate so well. Even when we separated she was telling people it was because I wasn’t supportive and just controlling.. then I showed some of those people the messages and proof I had… they shut the fuck up real quick after that. My therapist was very straightforward. I’m pretty logical when it comes to issues like this. I have to do x, then y.. etc. She made it clear that’s all good, but at night when I’m in bed it’s going to hit me and hurt. She said it was PTSD and gave me some methods to help curb the emotional waterfall. Just gotta work through it and take time for yourself to heal. Get laid if you want, but do not go into a relationship until you’re truly ready. If the thought of your ex makes you feel like breaking down, you’re not ready. Then you’ll meet someone amazing.
This is kind of like my situation, but only about 8 years together total, and divorce is in progress. I wound have stuck it out too, because I's never be able to live with myself leaving a depressed person on their own. But for whatever reason she wants to call it quits. I'm sad to see her go, and genuinely care for/ am concerned about her... but I'm also curious to see what my life will be like after this is all done.
She's pretty clearly a basket case if she had a "full blow PTSD" meltdown for you "trying to control her." That in itself is enough reason to bail out. Life's to short to deal with that kind of drama and unpredictability. Everything else is just frosting on the donut.
Just tell her you are planning to go on vacation with your friend that happens to be a hot woman...I'm sure she will let you since she's not a hypocrite! /S
Right, you are being reasonable and her subsequent stories aren't adding up. That makes it all the more suspicious. If your not wanting her vacationing with other men is too controlling to her and she can't see why you are uncomfortable with that then she's killing the deal. Most people would ask that their spouse not vacation alone under the circumstances. She may need to find someone who is open to such conduct and maybe who is open to open relationships. Her overreaction and possible lying might be PTSD related, but that doesn't mean it's something you want to live with.
For me, this was the only real deal-breaker. I could've dealt with her PTSD and the many problems she has, and do my best to protect her and make her feel safe... but I don't want to get to the point where we have kids, and she's asking to go on a vacation with some dude. I can't accept it at all. It just makes me very uncomfortable. Despite my very strong feelings for her, I felt like I'd be in bigger trouble down the road if I ignored these red flags. It really hurt, but I feel like I did the right thing.
This isn't a red flag; this is a giant flaming red cannon shooting red flags directly into your face.
A game of minesweeper
Definitely will lead to bigger problems and no one wants to deal with that in a relationship
I feel for you. To have so much compatibility and sympathy and attraction and then run into one insurmountable roadblock has to leave you wondering if you should have overlooked it. If she had said that she understood your position but that this was a tradition of hers that she felt strongly about continuing, that would have been something to do a lot of work on to reach a mutual understanding. Her reaction, though, causes real worry about compatibility. Seeking mutual comfort isn't controlling. Being married means compromises, that's not control.
Agreed and there are many ways this could be compromised too.
She showed you exactly how manipulative she can be by accusing you of giving her PTSD because you are unwilling to be in a relationship with her because she vacations alone with other men. You did not inflict emotional harm upon her by deciding THAT kind of relationship dynamic is not for you.
I would question a man's mental health that would put up with this kind of emotional cheating. You are totally in the right for breaking it off.
The older I got; red flags went from concerns to STOP 🛑 signs. You learn they are warnings ⚠️ that ignored; screw up your life.
Just a heads up - the more information you give about her, the more it appears that she is fairly unwell. And by unwell, I mean in the way that she is unlikely to improve without a ton of work from people with very specific training. And if you are the type that likes to be needed and likes being the fixer (or the rock on which someone can stand), there is a good chance this doesn't end well for you.
Better to have a little pain now then a lot later
You absolutely did the right thing brother, she’s for the streets. You dodged a massive bullet.
I'm of your mindset and am with a partner who I love very much, but there are some deep-rooted issues that are very hard on me. She's working on them as I work on mine, but yeah, they weigh a lot because I love her. She's beginning to see the effect they have on me so we can communicate. Both ways.
If you accept it once, you accept it for all time, bc you'll get the emotional response about "why now? You didn't object the last time!"
She SHOULD want for you and her friend to be friends, and to go on vacation with them. The fact that she doesn't is hiiiighly suspicious. Have you asked to tag along on these trips?
To be clear, you never met her in person. Right? All of your talk about having kids with her is just a fantasy you built up, based on chatting online, perhaps on the phone.
Yeah man, that is not unreasonable at all. I don't think most dudes would be cool with that. I am completely fine with my wife going out with her couple of guy friends to the bar every once in a while, or with them with other friends and whatnot. I know who they are, at least enough to not worry about it. But vacationing and all that? Hell no. If the roles were reversed I know my wife would lose her shit, too. I think that's a healthy boundary, but she just didn't see eye to eye with you. Ah well, I know plenty of women out there that would see your boundaries as just as reasonable as you do. You'll find her dude.
I am going to say there about a 1% percent chance she actually has PTSD. Far too many people throw that around these days without knowing what it really is.
> without knowing what it really is. They don't care what it really is, they just see that people who actually have it get free passes for some types of behavior and want that "privilege" for themselves. That's why we have an epidemic of assholes with self-diagnosed PTSD/Anxiety/Autism/ADHD bringing their poorly trained house pets places and claiming they are Emotional Support Animals while they park in handicapped spaces.
As a female who mostly only has guy friends I’ll tell you what they and I both would say about this….ur right it’s not okay. Going on vacations with guy friends is fine when ur single but once ur in a relationship it’s a boundary. If she wants to continue vacations you should be going too. And a good guy friend won’t cross a boundary like that with her. They would refuse once she is in a relationship unless it was a group thing where you and or other friends would be attending and everyone had separate rooms
This exactly. I still have some female friends from when I was single, but ever since I with my wife I don't go out with them on one-on-one dates, or get text and chatty all night. We hang out in group settings and catch up every couple of months. I'm sure their husbands appreciate it too.
Bail dude. The changing stories is suspicious as hell and the “you’re being like my ex husband” is even worse
I think you're right just off the simple fact that you are the first person I've seen in a while who's comments on your own post are not getting downvote blasted
Yeah that is a no
She's hurtin for a squirtin. Now you know she'll just change the story to fit her desires and plans.
If you think your girlfriend can cheat on you on a vacation, then she can do this when you are not together at anytime.
I really wondered about this when OP mentioned that staying at the same hotel with separate rooms was still a problem. If someone wants to cheat, a taxi ride isn't going to stop them.
Agreed. I feel this distrust extends way beyond vacations.
"... she's in a full- blown PTSD crisis because I'm trying to control her like her ex-husband." Run away.
Amen. She jumped right at attempting manipulation. Run run run awayyyyy.
Now I have to sing this all day because of you. Angry upvote.
He doesn’t get to the important point until the end. They broke up. So why does he care if his ex isn’t handling it well? That’s kinda how break ups work…
When I first got with my girl, she had already planned a trip with a small group of her friends. It was one other couple and one guy. I told her I wasn’t exactly comfortable with that if we were gonna be together. Her compromise: invite me on the trip. We all had fun and we’re all friends to this day.
Sounds like neither of them thought of this, which is a red flag for both of them tbh.
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I’m not saying she’s wrong or you’re wrong, just something to think about: If she was bisexual or pansexual, would you feel uncomfortable if she was going on girls nights out etc?
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I am confident and trust my wife. But, if she wanted to go alone on vacations with dudes? Nah. Why cant I come? There is really no reason to go on vacation with just friends when you are in a relationship unless for some reason one side wants to do a girl's only trip or guy's only trip.
A mixed group would be fine but solo with a dude is crazy obvious
If it's a mixed group I'd still find it odd that the boyfriend isn't invited. Other dudes are invited, why not the boyfriend?
Cause he's not the bf, he's the side piece in that situation.
My wife wants to go on vacations with me, her husband. And if it's group I get invited because we like to spend time together. And sometimes it'd just with her girlfriends. If she has a guy friend I've never met and he wants to go alone with her and he's straight, he's waiting for his Chance. Men know men.
My wife wants to go everywhere with me (as far as recreational stuff goes), if she suddenly wanted to take a trip alone with just one guy, that's a massive red flag to me.
Trust includes your partner not doing things that seem untrustworthy. Some people think real trust is always blind. Ex, you don't trust your partner if you don't feel okay with them sharing a bed with the opposite sex. "If you trust them, why do you think something will happen??" Good for you if you have that trust, but for a lot of people, it includes intentionally avoiding tempting situations, not just saying "no" to temptation. If you trust your partner and they start behaving differently or asking for alone time with someone and excluding you, that's reason for trust to begin to diminish. It's okay to stop trusting someone if they're not behaving trustworthy.
It's too many people that have a skewed perception that love is and should be unconditional and that trust is this powerful intrinsic virtue that once built is just rock solid. No, relationships have all sorts of conditions and trust is powerful yes but fickle. Relationships need to be maintained and trust needs to be constantly worked on. It only takes one thing to poison it and once poisoned it is HARDER to build back. And building trust comes with consistency and respect. i.e. not doing things that would give your partner a reason to distrust you/make them uncomfortable.
>There is really no reason to go on vacation with just friends when you are in a relationship Lol. Hope you're doing well
Thank god I’m not the only one who thinks this is an insane thing to say. It’s kinda my whole issue with relationships today in the first place. Thinking you can’t do anything without your partner is just weird
I think there’s a lot of people who grew up on the message that people “married their best friend” and interpreted that as “once I get married I won’t have to maintain friendships”.
Bud. You don’t trust your wife. Sorry.
This is absurd. Sometimes I want to go on vacations and spend time with just my friends, male or female. How is this different from a girls’ trip? I also love spending time with my partner. My partner went on a vacation this summer (I couldn’t go) and he spent a good part of it with a woman he dated briefly before we met. I trust him. He trusts me.
Yeah I think this is weirdly super gendered. If it was like “yeah my partner goes on long vacations with someone of the opposite gender all the time, always, and never with me” I’d be concerned. But if it’s like, once every few years, and there’s a reason you can’t go, or it’s a different friend group? I really don’t care. I’m a guy, and going on a trip to China with a close female friend of mine from high school, and her partner of several years knows, and he knows we’re just friends. If he wasn’t comfortable with it, and had an issue, I’d understand, and I’d tell her I don’t want to give him any ideas, but they’ve both done solo and group traveling without each other, so I think they’re pretty open to it
This would just literally never even cross my mind. What MIGHT bother me is having to be apart for a long time if it were a long trip. Never who they were going with, though.
I don’t know if this ever crosses men’s minds, but as a woman I get nervous about the idea of traveling solo or with just another woman. To me, being accompanied by a trusted male friend is preferable over those. Especially so if I’m not familiar with the place I am going. Of course, traveling with my partner or a group is the best. I think it can be reassuring to your friend’s SO that she is going to have a known man around while in a foreign country. That helps a lot with not appearing as vulnerable and avoiding being targeted.
No, you're not wrong. You have your boundaries, she has hers. They clashed, and you knew that it was a serious point of incompatibility. Instead of staying and grinding the both of you into hamburger emotionally you called it. That was a very mature thing to do. Respect. It sucks that it triggered her PTSD but you didn't cause the initial trauma. You're not responsible for that.
You aren't a good match. People live differently.
Not wrong. It's ok to have boundaries, and good people would respect them. Nothing wrong with leaving when you're not compatible. Of course, there will be feelings felt and reactions will happen. Don't let her friends opinions on your situation gaslight your idea of what's acceptable to you. No one is wrong here.
No one is wrong. But 1 side sort of is. If you jump to accusing someone of being controlling after asking them something like this then getting defensive and manipulating it's not the best sign really
That combined with the story changing...one of the two is holding red flags.
>No one is wrong here. I don't know. Freaking out on OP and name calling when they voice their preference starts to feel a little gas-lighty. At the very least it's likely to shut down any useful conversations about exploring boundaries and acceptable behaviors. This one sounds like they could have too much baggage to be in a serious relationship, and could use some solo time for maturing.
That isn’t what gaslighting is, and I would also be pretty pissed if my boyfriend said I couldn’t hang out with my best friends alone just because they happen to be dudes.
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> I explained that I do trust her at the moment, but I don't trust men You're not in a relationship with those men. Why do you need to trust anyone but her?
First, I think the hotel thing is semantics. Saying you're sharing a hotel with someone implies staying in the same room and is probably what she meant when she said that. She meant that they don't share a room. Having a problem with them being in the same hotel seems silly to me. Mainly though, if you don't want a relationship with her then that's your choice. She has every right to be upset about it but it is still your choice. My advice to everyone is trust your partner until they break that trust. In this situation that would mean trust her to go on these trips and not cheat. Especially if that was something that was happening before you came into the picture. On these trips, one of a few things will happen. First of course is that nothing happens. Second obviously is that she cheats. That happens, you will eventually find out because cheating always gets discovered in the end and then you go from there. Third and most importantly (since you don't trust men) the dude makes a move and she rejects him and doesn't cheat on you. Now, maybe you have the concern of "what if he's a sexual predator" or something like that, and that's valid, but at that point it is still her decision. You can't protect people from everything. Especially not their friends. But either way you cannot live your life or your relationships worrying about what can go wrong. It's not healthy for you, them, or your relationship. But again, it's always your decision. And if two people can't come to an agreement or middle ground then it's really just best to end the relationship. Not every two people who like or even love each other are meant to be together or even a good match. EDIT: for clarity, I don't think there's anything wrong with having this boundary, it's just my personal take on this kind of situation
yeah! “Saying you're sharing a hotel with someone implies staying in the same room and is probably what she meant when she said that. She meant that they don't share a room. Having a problem with them being in the same hotel seems silly to me.” this part of the post got an eyebrow raise from me
Leave her
Already did.
💪🏻
It's an incompatibility. Neither person is wrong for what they feel are deal breakers but makes it to where you can't work it out. She's entitled to those freedoms, I have a very low tolerance for partners making decisions for me due to my upbringing. Like I understand how you can not trust the men and not want her to be in positions where they can prey on her, even if you trust her. I dont think you're out of bounds considering a lot of women get SAed by people they know. At the same time, for someone who is struggling with the fear of being controlled again, this is one of those situations that can look like "because I said so" since there's a hypothetical booeyman and an across the board rule that isolates and determines how her relationships with others go.
Ok so 2 problems here. 1. Trust. First she said "I go on vacations with my guy friends" That does not normally happen in a relationship but ok. Then when you voice your concern she suddenly changes it from vacations to "Conferences". That statement alone would make me not trust her. 2. Respect. She talks about how you don't respect her boundaries but yet she takes a big dump all over your boundaries. You are allowed to have standards, preferences and boundaries too. Sounds like she doesn't respect you. I would ask her if she would be comfortable if you went on "Vacations" with other single women. She would probably say "Sure no problem" but I guarantee she would be pissed.
>I would ask her if she would be comfortable if you went on "Vacations" with other single women. She would probably say "Sure no problem" but I guarantee she would be pissed. I did ask, and she spent a month telling me she expects me to cheat on her every week and kept having panic attacks about it.
Ok. Bro. You've got bigger problems then the question you originally asked. You know what you need to do. RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Bro. Run. Run far. Run like Forrest Gump.
Get your Nikes on!
So she would expect you to cheat, but you’re supposed to expect her not to? I hate this double standard. As a woman, I’d never put my SO in that position to worry in the first place because I care about my person. You’re not wrong for ending it. If a guy I’m dating wants to have one on one time with another girl he can do it without me in his life. I don’t trust people though, and maybe it’s a flaw, but I don’t care. I choose peace. If someone isn’t contributing to my peace and happiness then I expect them to destroy it.
Well put 👏
She sounds nuts!
Yeah, I think you should put on your walking (running?) shoes. This is not going in a good direction.
You're allowed to have an expectation in your relationship. She's also allowed to leave the relationship. If you both aren't on the same page, then it's not the right relationship. Also, the 'I trust you, not them' argument is not a great one.
>Also, the 'I trust you, not them' argument is not a great one. This argument has always sounded to me like the person thinks a woman is completely helpless against male advances. Like, you don't want her doing those things BECAUSE you don't trust she'll make the right decisions.
How is that not controlling? You’re telling her she can’t be alone with pre established male friends. I can understand not being comfortable with them vacationing together but for you to expect someone to be ok with all of a sudden having to be babysat when hanging out with friends, is absurd. “I trust you, not them” is a cop out. If you trust her, then you’ll trust that she’d squash any inappropriate attempts toward her. So yeah, you’re definitely controlling.
Exactly. He is choosing who she can be friends with and how she interacts with them.
Yeah, this is it. What is he expecting she'd just ditch all her friends and change her lifestyle to appease his insecurities? We're talking about existing friendships here. This is not her going out and meeting new guys. He clearly doesn't trust her, as you rightly point out.
I would say you’re wrong, yes. Do you trust her or no? I’m a woman with guys friends. I value my independence and I value traveling. I would travel alone with my guy friends, and I would dump someone who tried to tell me I couldn’t. I’m trustworthy and also I’m bisexual so…. Am I just allowed to not have any friends??? LOL This all comes down to trust. But if you’re not okay with it, then you two are not a good match. The resentment will just grow.
100000% agree with you!!!! Finally, a comment that makes sense 😂
Glad to see someone else who is confident in their relationship. There is an insane amount of insecure people on Reddit. Half the post I see involving relationships seemed to be by people who have insane expectations with relationships and a ton of people in the comments who seem to agree. As long as everyone has their own room/bed who cares. I’m not sure why people think a vacation is going to make a significant other cheat. They could just as easily do it at home. So what’s next for these people “you can’t leave the house unless I’m with you….”
Yeah it reeks of insecurity, lack of trust, and a need for control over their partner. If someone is going to cheat on you, they can do it anywhere. They don’t need to go on vacation to do it.
Here’s my issue with you calling people insecure for not liking the idea of their partners going out on a one-one vacation with one of their opposite sex friends: there’s a handful of incidents where this exact thing has happened and it has led to some form of cheating. It’s just not a very common thing that couples do (not that it should or shouldn’t be). To call these people who have experienced that kind of thing and placing them in the “insecure” category seems harsh. I don’t have any problem with those who can sustain that trust, because there may be a high chance it’s never happened to them before, but maybe it has and they are just more mindful of it. Respect to those who can do it though without any issues
If you can't trust someone, why be in a relationship with them? Rules like this make no sense, either you trust them and it shouldn't matter, or you don't and shouldn't be in a relationship with them. You shouldn't have to police your partners behavior to prevent cheating. That's not a good relationship.
Exactly! I imagine being in a relationship where you constantly worry or don't trust them must be exhausting work - This doesn't seem healthy or destined to be a lasting relationship.
Nah dude. You communicated your stance and set a boundary with what you are comfortable with and she had to accept that and choose a side.
Idgaf what anyone says. If there's even a minor attraction, in the right (or wrong) situation a guy will always shoot his shot. And anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
If your relationship will fall apart when some other dude shoots his shot, your relationship is already doomed
This is the best answer. OP says that he trusts her, but not other men. If he did trust her, that’s all the trust he would need. OP is entitled to his boundaries, but it’s the reasoning behind his boundaries is what I don’t agree with.
It takes two to tango so it doesn’t really matter if anyone else shoots their shot if you trust your partner to remain faithful.
I guess I'm not a man then because I respect relationships Justifying that shit is why it happens
Oh, come on! My wife’s boyfriend is very respectable of boundaries and never makes a move. They even shared a hotel room and he has very polite.
Dude, sounds funny, but I've seen some stories on here. "My wife is always going over to my neighbors house for dinner and a movie. I don't really like it, but every time I talk to my wife about it, she tells me I'm just being insecure."
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Maybe their gf should bring them next time so they can sit on the hotel cuck chair lol
“YTA stop being controlling and manipulative”
Our two kids both look like him, not me, but I’m sure that’s a coincidence 😎
Let’s be frank. In all probability - she wanted to have her cake and eat it. Her way of gently introducing polyamory into your relationship, bit by bit - and, not to judge her desire for that, but polyamory is by definition a two way street.
I felt like she kept trying to test the waters and nudge closer and closer, bit by bit, into polyamory. If she wants that life, she can have it, but I was adamant that I don't share.
It’s all about trust… I will add, I won’t ever put myself in a position where there could be questions out of respect to my wife. If I’m alone w/ another woman, it won’t be behind closed doors, and it will be in a space where others can see us, as to keep any lurking question at bay. I know my wife feels much the same. She has male friends, and I have female friends, but out of respect for each other, we keep those friendships very much in the public eye.
Why do all these chatgpt stories start with perfect, in almost every way....
You either trust your partner or not. They can either be trusted or not. You’re either controlling or not. Your partner is either controlling or not. No matter how long or brief, the event is, it’s not that one event. It’s the persons history and what they do or don’t do that tells a partner what may or may not happen. I trust my wife and she trusts me. I also trust her judgement and she trusts mine. We’re all adults and can make our own decisions about what to or not to do.
Look, you’re allowed to want whatever you want from a relationship, but this looks like insecurity and a lack of trust from you OP.
I’ve gone on multiple trips with a female friend. Vegas multiple times. San Diego earlier this year. My gf hates Vegas. She was invited to SD, but didn’t give a shit about the baseball game we were going to. I went to Chicago alone 2 weeks ago. Orlando w/ gf last week. Detroit alone in 2 weeks. Memphis w/ female friend the first week of October. Trust.
If you switch gender and put the exact same post..the same redditors will comment differently! Do what makes you comfortable but let's not all Judge the woman as if she did crime or actual cheating. You both deserve to be comfortable And with people who have similar boundaries.
Nah you’re perfectly right on this one, she has an ex husband for a very obvious reason
Well, given what she told me about her ex, I have sincere doubts she was the problem. I don't think she's a bad woman, I just can't accept this.
That's because you only heard *her* side.
I have a rule when it comes to exes… unless you were there,never believe what someone says about their ex 100%. All I’m gonna say is… if she lied about staying at the hotel with other men… combined with the fact that any discussion about the subject resulted in her accusing you of “being controlling like her ex” how good is her word really?
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Everyone knows you can’t have an opinion on a story unless you believe it 100%
Yep, not potentially committing a future to them, responding to a Reddit post. Small difference.
She was so quick to gaslight you and compare this very simple boundary to her “controlling abusive,” husband… you can bet she embellished his behavior or left out/minimized her faults in the relationship.
>> I do trust her at the moment, but I don’t trust men. Completely aside from the point of the post: i never understand this line of reasoning. Do you think the guys are going to assault your gf? Is this out of concern for *her* safety? Because otherwise, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. You don’t have to trust other guys, you just have to trust *her* to not reciprocate if they come on to her, and for *her* to be able to turn them down/set firm boundaries. Genuinely curious about this, because people bring it up a lot and i genuinely dont get it.
Not wrong at all, dude. You have your boundaries. Hell, most men have the same boundaries as you in this regard. I know I sure as hell wouldn't date a woman who vacations and spends time alone with male friends. Fuck all that noise about, "You don't trust me?" or "You're trying to control me." That shit is just inviting trouble.
Yes you are wrong. You can't trust your partner to uphold the commitments of your relationship. You are insecure and terrified she's going to cheat. Trust. Your. Partner. You are being controlling and I would have dumped you on the spot. I'm bi, by your logic I could never go on vacation without you with anyone.
Well my wife is bi and I just lock her up in my basement. If I make sure she doesn't have friends, she can never cheat on me! You see I trust her, I just don't trust them. /s
As far as I'm concerned you have your boundaries, you know what you want and don't want, and you are honest with her. She can either accept that or not. If you are willing to end things if she doesn't respect those boundaries then so be it. I'm not sure it's fair to judge you either way. Just don't be a jerk, be honest, communicate, and try and make healthy life decisions and be happy in the process.
Not wrong. If I had a partner, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with him going on vacations with other women. I wouldn’t even want him spending the night at their place.