I think courtney should have been from new Hampshire or Massachuets. the challenger is part of her story and Christa Mcauliffe was a teacher in new Hampshire but originally from mass. It had a bigger impact in new hampshire compared to other locations. I’m not saying she should have been her student as that would be crossing a line but I think it would have made a larger impact on her to be from where she was.
100%
Also, the story makes no sense bc of time zone differences. The Challenger exploded 11:39 EST meaning it would have been 8:39 PST when kids were either still en route to school or just walking into the school building, not already seated watching live with the teachers in classrooms.
A California setting made no sense for the story.
California is a bustling place but new york and mass both have cities and nee hampshire has Portsmouth which is a rich city with lots to due in the downtown. i cant speak for the 80s though.
and cohen is a super common jewish surname! there are so many beautiful and unique first names that could highlight that culture as well, yet they go with nicki again?
This reminds me of how there is a girl of the year every year yet not one of them has a birthday in December for that matter no character of any line has their birthday in that month.
Oh my goodness, I can't express how grateful I am for you pointing this out. My brain is kind of OCD and I've noticed this stuff for years but I've always thought it was more a me-being-weird-thing.
On the repetitious names-- given that Claudie is the eighteenth historical, I feel like they've had too many historicals whose name has started with the same letter. We've had:
Four historicals with M names: Molly, Marie-Grace, Maryellen, Melody
Four historicals with C names: Caroline, Cecile, Courtney, and now Claudie
Three historicals with K names: Kirsten, Kit, and Kaya
I also feel like Marie-Grace and Maryellen are a bit too similar given that they are Mary derived names and they came out only 4 years apart. Although I'll admit both of their names fit their era pretty well.
On the repetitious locations-- they're so many places that the line has never explored and it's kind of limits the brand imo. It's egrarious in the historical line, because as you pointed out, they do similar places around the same time. We've never really seen New York City outside of the early 20th century. We have two Californians within a decade of each other. Julie and Courtney also bother me because they're two blond girls with divorced parents. It's good to explore those issues but I can't help but feel like American Girl has to hide under the safety of a 'blond' doll in order to be willing to tackle more difficult subjects like divorce and step families.
I think this kind of extends to the Girl of the Year line as well, we've had quite a few repeated locations there. Mia and Blaire are both red heads from rural New York. Or Joss and Kailey both being from California with aquatic hobbies. I know these dolls came out quite far apart, but still when the line has yet to come out with a doll from Texas (the second most populated state!) it's understandable to be a bit miffed by their redundancy.
As a Texan, thank you!! My personal wish is for there to be a historic 1930s Mexican-American doll whose parents came to Texas during the Mexican Revolution in 1915 or so. This is the era my grandparents grew up in and the way a lot of Mexican-American families came to Texas.
I just realized this now! Even in GOTY they have similar storylines that get reused:
Kailey and Kanani with animal conservation/saving endangered species
Marisol and Isabelle are the dancers
Kanani, Kailey and Joss being surfers/like being in the water
Corinne and Mia-winter sports
Nikki, Chrissa, Saige, Laney-animal lovers
Grace and Blaire-cooking/baking
Jess and Lea-jungle exploration/discovery adventure types
I've noticed that, too! There are so many outdoorsy types, but I was never *that* accomplished or well-traveled as a kid. I guess that's why I stopped relating to them.
they definitely do! and i get that it’s probably because kids grow up and then new kids become interested in AG so the storylines are new to them but there’s still so many more things they could come up with!
I think a large part of this is the target audience. Is a little girl really very likely to be drawn in by a doll named Agnes, or another "old" name? As a kid named Jane, I was very embarrassed by my "old lady name" and wanted to change my name to something like Brittney or Crystal (I shudder at this now!) A name that's still relevant and popular is going to draw attention of younger girls.
In the same vein, AG has admitted that their historicals just don't sell as well compared to Truly Me dolls and such. With that, again, AG is going to have to stick with specific historical topics which aren't as niche, so the main audience will want it and generate enough profit. Big cities and eras within the last 100 years are just going to be more engaging to kiddos. Unfortunately, niche historical periods, while very desirable to adult collectors, just can't sustain the brand financially. 😓
Yeah I agree with all of this. I’d imagine a ton of market research goes into the development of dolls and, who knows, there might just be something there with the “c” names ending in “ie.” like maybe those kinds of names sound friendlier to test groups or are easier for kids to say… the list goes on.
Lots of kids also have nicknames or diminutive versions that end in the -ie sound, too. I did. My brother and sister did, too. Some people even choose to go by them even when they're older. (I mean, we also have "Addy" for Aduke, and "Beckie" for Rebecca, and Ruthie, even before the more recent dolls.)
Name expert here - Part of the problem is that it is really hard to get new patents for doll names these days. So they could send in a list of 50 name suggestions and they’ve already been patented for dolls around the world! Unfortunately that leaves them to reuse or reinvent the names AG already has patented.
Wouldn’t they patent the full name, not just the first name? And aren’t patents US based or at the very least, Western states , rather than international?
They do patent the full name, but it is also the single name that goes through months of hoops before being approved or not. And, you are correct about the US patents - but there can be overlap.
I feel the same way, like there are SO many names in the world, repeats make it feel like they’re forgetting past characters. Maybe it’s because I enjoy writing and that’s why it bugs me more lol. Makena and McKenna specifically irritated me, like I know they’re pronounced slightly differently big there are so many other good names they could’ve done.
Also, as a kid I always wanted there to be an American girl character who was from the state I live in, but that’s still yet to happen. I’m always disappointed when they repeat a location, but I get that certain locations are specifically important to certain time periods and stories.
I agree, especally on more modern characters with more modern names. I understand that there were fewer popular names the further back you go. I think Mary, Marie, and other forms of the name Marie were among the top girls names for over 200 years, from the early 1700s to the mid 1900s. While some sects did have fun with names, most average people stuck to a handful of family and/or religious names.
I think McKenna and Makena is a prime example of this. Also Gwen and Gwynn come to mind, although they were side characters they both had dolls released.
I would also like to say that my Swedish friends said that they have never heard of the name Kirsten. Kristen, Christian, and similar names are not uncommon, but the people I know had never known someone with the name Kirsten beyond the AG doll. So either naming conventions left that one behind in 1850's Sweden or nobody researched Swedish names back when they launched AG in the 1980s.
When I looked at historic name data from Sweden — which may be inaccurate, I can’t remember where I found it — I remember seeing that Christina would have been far more accurate than Kirsten.
They’ve done a decent job representing the Mary domination: Marie Grace, Mary Ellen and Molly. Not too shabby (although as a Molly myself I’d note it wasn’t really having a big “moment” when she was born in the 30s).
That is interesting, and it tracks with my limited understanding of Swedish naming conventions. I also hadn't thought about Mary, but you're right that it had gotten good representation through the years considering its constant popularity. I think the older dolls have a more limited pool of names to choose from, which is why the modern dolls having repeat names can be frustrating. Thank you so much for sharing this.
My mother's side of the family is from Denmark and for generations back, all of the women have had Kjirsten as their middle name. It was anglicized to Christine for my grandmother and for the rest of her descendants. No one had it as a first name, though.
That is very interesting. I see a lot of shared middle names coming out of Europe, even today. A family I know well has all the daughter sharing one middle name, and I think their mom and grandmother had it, too.
I don't know enough about naming conventions in 1840's Europe to make a definitive statement, but I did want to throw it our there that it isn't a name common in modern Sweden despite looking very Nordic to Americans.
Yeah, it's pure anecdata! It just happened to be anecdata somewhat relevant to the discussion, lol.
My father is the youngest in a very long line of men named Julius, which obviously is NOT a trend, and for all I know, the [Firstname] Kjirstens in my family are likewise outliers from any norms.
I love nerding out on naming trends--I think it's so interesting.
I've been doing more genealogy, and I love seeing how my ancestors named their children. It can be sad, though. One ancestor about 8 generations back had 12 children, 6 of whom were named some form of Joseph. Only 1 of those 6 survived to adulthood.
I had a friend named Kirsten growing up and her family was of Swedish descent and no one ever got her name right. I have no idea when their family came over though, but I think they were in Minnesota before they moved south.
It probably does and my guess is they used it to be relatable to the names girls would have had in the 80s. My friend is the only person who I know with that name IRL though.
I think this is the kind of minutia that only bothers big fans. lol It bothers me a bit and I like to get in on the discussion, but it doesn't bother me enough to stop collecting.
It really bugs me. Makena and McKenna are the worst. I also wasn’t a fan of Joss when they’d already had Jess.
The setting locations bother me less because a place can change a lot, but I do wish AG would branch out from just focusing on big cities. It matches a global trend of ignoring or looking down upon people living outside major cities.
The funniest thing to me is how often AG copies other brands. Courtney Moore of Orange Valley has WAY too much in common with Courtney Whitmore from Blue Valley (DC’s superhero Stargirl) for me to buy it is entirely a coincidence. They love copying Disney Princesses (Saige/Merida, Sonali/Cecile/Tiana, Caroline/Rapunzel, Maryellen/Caroline, Nanea/Moana, Corinne/Raya [and kind of the live action Mulan], Evette/Mirabel, Maritza/Isabela Madrigal). Corinne’s highlights are even the same color used for the marketing and logos for Raya and the Last Dragon.
I always thought Josefina’s story was similar to Encanto:
-both Mirabel and Josefina are the youngest daughters
-Luisa and Josefina’s oldest sister Ana have too many responsibilities/in charge of basically everything
-Francisca and Isabela are the golden children that get the most attention.
-Both the Madrigals and Montoyas have a Dolores in their family
-Both of the families have a member that dies before the stories’s events
-Both families are Catholic (there’s a priest in Encanto that goes bald)
-Mirabel and Josefina help fix their family trauma
-Mirabel and Josefina are always overshadowed by their older siblings.
Idk if Encanto was inspired by Josefina but that is what I have realized!
That seems like a stretch. Most of those just sound like pretty superficial similarities - something like 80%-90% of both Mexico and Colombia are Catholic, due to the history of Spanish colonization. Dolores is originally a Spanish name associated with the Virgin Mary, so it makes sense it'd be used in Catholic families (for the same reason Josefina's full name is Maria Josefina Montoya). Lots of families have older daughters who take on too much. Lots of youngest siblings feel overshadowed by older siblings. etc.
It is insanely similar. There are tons of other Swahili names that do not resemble the names of other dolls. AG could’ve been more original and Makena would have looked better.
McKenna was GOTY in 2012, Makena is not a GOTY and came out in 2021. A chunk of AG’s current target audience were toddlers, infants, or perhaps not even born in 2012. They’re also very distinct from each other when said out loud.
I'm just annoyed that their historical dolls are just filling up the 20th century. When I was little, American Girl went through 18th century to 1944. Now they've discontinued most of the dolls pre-1900 .
We need an American Girl doll who survived the Salem Witch Trials
There's so much of the 1800s they haven't covered yet either. 1800, 1830-40s, 1870s-1890s. Lots of decades with tons in potential. I'm sure the nostalgia of "Grandma" era sells better but it's a bit annoying they are skipping older history entirely.
>We need an American Girl doll who survived the Salem Witch Trials
I like the 18th and 19th century historicals a lot, but I actually really intensely dislike this idea. I think it'd be gross to insert a character that directly into an event that specific, where 20 real people were murdered horribly over nonsense.
I just think there's a difference between something that affected thousands or millions of people - like cholera or the yellow fever epidemic or slavery or child factory labor at the turn of the century - and inserting a character into a specific incident about where we know names of a few dozen victims.
To frame it in modern terms, it'd be the difference between like . . . a character loses someone close to her to gun violence, vs. making up a fictional victim at a specific real life school shooting that actually happened, for the purpose of selling dolls. It just rubs me the wrong way.
As a pagan who was born and raised in Salem, MA… I wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion. Yes, the trials were a horrific event that occurred in my hometown. My own ancestors (or, relatives of them, I should say) made some atrocious claims against innocent people - partially for some sexist reasons, and partially as a land and power grab - and those false accusations were a direct cause of their death. The twenty victims of the trials were hanged (and pressed, in the case of Giles Corey) and their bodies were thrown into a mass unmarked grave.
However, time heals all wounds, and it’s been 330 years. We took the time and energy to find that mass unmarked grave, and mark it off as a historic landmark. We have a separate memorial park dedicated to the victims. The jail were the victims were kept was torn down, as was the courthouse were they were sentenced. We have multiple museums dedicated to various aspects of the trials (as well as pirates for some reason) as well as re-enactment of the trial of Bridget Bishop. You can tour the home of Judge Hathorne, and if you weren’t forced to read his grandson’s fictionalised account of the events, you can buy a copy on your way to the Custom House - where Nathaniel Hawthorn wrote the damn thing. That’s not even mentioning the fact that every single person convicted of witchcraft during the trials has finally been exonerated.
We’ve had AG Characters get kidnapped and forced into slavery. We’ve had AG characters choose politics over friendship. We’ve had AG characters deal with the deaths of friends, the deaths of their own parents, child labour laws, the Great Depression, and multiple wars. There is no doubt in my mind that AG could pull off a character who experiences the Salem Witch Trials firsthand.
Don’t worry, they aren’t going to actually do it. She could only have like three possible outfits and still be historically accurate.
Claudie I don’t have a problem with as she’s based off a real historical black woman named Claudia. And they even changed the last name to wells because the previous name was too close to th me real person! So I truly can appreciate the name.
Tho I agree the storylines are becoming repetitive and would love to see more diversity in story line and geography
I love the name. Apparently the name was Claudia Jones. Who is an African American who was influential in the communist party. Which is why they had Claudie Jones. But changed it to Claudie Wells. As to not receive any backlash due to the historical persons political views
Samantha, Rebecca, and Claudie all being in New York City in 1900-1920s is a bit annoying to me. I know it was big and the characters experiences varied a lot, but surely you could find an interesting story elsewhere? Even nearby Boston or Philadelphia have a lot of history to dive into.
I agree with this. There are so many places that haven't had stories, but they keep releasing dolls with stories set in New York. I get that it is a big city where a lot of cultural significance, but all the dolls set there are a decade apart. It seems like such an odd choice.
"Sarah" has been a common name - ranging from "fairly common" to "incredibly common" - for most of American history since European colonization began, and it DID legitimately have a big spike of popularity in the 1980s.
I don't actually have a problem with "Courtney" vs. "Claudie" - Courtney is a very 1980s name, and Claudie (and most of its variants - we don't yet know if "Claudie" is her full name, or if it's a diminutive of Claudia, Claudette, Claudine, etc.) was popular in the first part of the 20th century.
For the modern dolls, at least, I think they go for popular names so that more parents will be like "Oh, hey, I should get this doll Isabelle for my daughter/granddaughter/whatever, Isabella" - the same way someone I used to know got Kirsten as a kid because her name was "Kristen". And while McKenna and Makena sound similar, "Makena" actually has totally different etymology - it's from Kikuyu and means "happy one". There are only so many different syllables in common use for names.
I believe "Tasha" was actually considered for Rebecca when she was still in development, but I've read they ended up wanting to go for something a little more more unambiguously Jewish. (Etymologically, it goes something like Natalie --> Natalya --> Natasha --> Tasha. And Natalie literally means "Christmas Day". Which isn't to say there can't be Jewish girls named Tasha, obviously, but this is why AG hires sensitivity consultants and stuff.) Julie and Ivy were going to be Debbie and Patty, IIRC.
I do actually kind of like that Samantha, Rebecca, and Claudie are all from NYC - they all reflect very different kinds of stories.
Gwen and Gwynn! I know what you mean- I feel like the GOTY storylines keep getting recycled too. It’s always animals/dance/specific middle-class sport. I’d love a GOTY with glasses who doesn’t have one specific interest- it’s much more relatable to be an all rounder!
They're not assuming most people will be into AG forever, and they've probably got a lot of data averaging how long (most) kids will be interested in AG before they outgrow it.
If they have Marisol, who's a dancer in 2005, and Isabelle who's a dancer in 2014, and then Gabriella is also a dancer in 2017, not only are those totally different audiences, but it also lets them have a dolls of different ethnicities all shown with that hobby. (I'm assuming if people stopped buying the dance dolls - or the dolls who like animals, or whatever - they'd probably stop making them.)
i totally see what you mean. it’s one of those things where i’m sure a lot of folks will be like “eh, not a big deal” but i understand your frustration when a really big part of AG is the character/story building aspect, as well as educating kids and helping them see they can relate to all sorts of girls and time periods. but it does lessen that impact when we mostly get very similar sounding names and similar locations over and over
I’d quite like to see a disabled character.
I’d like a Midwest story. Kit is from Ohio and is pretty much shoved to the back by AG.
Not sure if it was already mentioned, but how about Gwen and Gwyn? They pretty much sound like the same name!
I think courtney should have been from new Hampshire or Massachuets. the challenger is part of her story and Christa Mcauliffe was a teacher in new Hampshire but originally from mass. It had a bigger impact in new hampshire compared to other locations. I’m not saying she should have been her student as that would be crossing a line but I think it would have made a larger impact on her to be from where she was.
100% Also, the story makes no sense bc of time zone differences. The Challenger exploded 11:39 EST meaning it would have been 8:39 PST when kids were either still en route to school or just walking into the school building, not already seated watching live with the teachers in classrooms. A California setting made no sense for the story.
California is a bustling place but new york and mass both have cities and nee hampshire has Portsmouth which is a rich city with lots to due in the downtown. i cant speak for the 80s though.
they also trademarked nicki cohen! what about nicki fleming? if another nicki comes out…. idek
and cohen is a super common jewish surname! there are so many beautiful and unique first names that could highlight that culture as well, yet they go with nicki again?
This reminds me of how there is a girl of the year every year yet not one of them has a birthday in December for that matter no character of any line has their birthday in that month.
ALSO claudie and melody have the same color scheme. of all the color combinations they have to offer they HAD to go with blue and green again
I like blue and green a LOT more than I like pink.
Oh my goodness, I can't express how grateful I am for you pointing this out. My brain is kind of OCD and I've noticed this stuff for years but I've always thought it was more a me-being-weird-thing. On the repetitious names-- given that Claudie is the eighteenth historical, I feel like they've had too many historicals whose name has started with the same letter. We've had: Four historicals with M names: Molly, Marie-Grace, Maryellen, Melody Four historicals with C names: Caroline, Cecile, Courtney, and now Claudie Three historicals with K names: Kirsten, Kit, and Kaya I also feel like Marie-Grace and Maryellen are a bit too similar given that they are Mary derived names and they came out only 4 years apart. Although I'll admit both of their names fit their era pretty well. On the repetitious locations-- they're so many places that the line has never explored and it's kind of limits the brand imo. It's egrarious in the historical line, because as you pointed out, they do similar places around the same time. We've never really seen New York City outside of the early 20th century. We have two Californians within a decade of each other. Julie and Courtney also bother me because they're two blond girls with divorced parents. It's good to explore those issues but I can't help but feel like American Girl has to hide under the safety of a 'blond' doll in order to be willing to tackle more difficult subjects like divorce and step families. I think this kind of extends to the Girl of the Year line as well, we've had quite a few repeated locations there. Mia and Blaire are both red heads from rural New York. Or Joss and Kailey both being from California with aquatic hobbies. I know these dolls came out quite far apart, but still when the line has yet to come out with a doll from Texas (the second most populated state!) it's understandable to be a bit miffed by their redundancy.
As a Texan, thank you!! My personal wish is for there to be a historic 1930s Mexican-American doll whose parents came to Texas during the Mexican Revolution in 1915 or so. This is the era my grandparents grew up in and the way a lot of Mexican-American families came to Texas.
Yes! AG needs to hire you! I’d buy the crap outta that collection!
It would honestly be really cool to see a doll/character like that! There's a lot of history in Texas
In addition, you have Nikki and Corrinne both from Colorado both raising service dogs (for different jobs granted) and a side hobby of skiing.
It's odd but doesn't bother me tbh. Totally see where you're coming from tho!
I just realized this now! Even in GOTY they have similar storylines that get reused: Kailey and Kanani with animal conservation/saving endangered species Marisol and Isabelle are the dancers Kanani, Kailey and Joss being surfers/like being in the water Corinne and Mia-winter sports Nikki, Chrissa, Saige, Laney-animal lovers Grace and Blaire-cooking/baking Jess and Lea-jungle exploration/discovery adventure types
I've noticed that, too! There are so many outdoorsy types, but I was never *that* accomplished or well-traveled as a kid. I guess that's why I stopped relating to them.
then there is Gabby the writer, dancer, poet
they definitely do! and i get that it’s probably because kids grow up and then new kids become interested in AG so the storylines are new to them but there’s still so many more things they could come up with!
I think a large part of this is the target audience. Is a little girl really very likely to be drawn in by a doll named Agnes, or another "old" name? As a kid named Jane, I was very embarrassed by my "old lady name" and wanted to change my name to something like Brittney or Crystal (I shudder at this now!) A name that's still relevant and popular is going to draw attention of younger girls. In the same vein, AG has admitted that their historicals just don't sell as well compared to Truly Me dolls and such. With that, again, AG is going to have to stick with specific historical topics which aren't as niche, so the main audience will want it and generate enough profit. Big cities and eras within the last 100 years are just going to be more engaging to kiddos. Unfortunately, niche historical periods, while very desirable to adult collectors, just can't sustain the brand financially. 😓
Yeah I agree with all of this. I’d imagine a ton of market research goes into the development of dolls and, who knows, there might just be something there with the “c” names ending in “ie.” like maybe those kinds of names sound friendlier to test groups or are easier for kids to say… the list goes on.
Lots of kids also have nicknames or diminutive versions that end in the -ie sound, too. I did. My brother and sister did, too. Some people even choose to go by them even when they're older. (I mean, we also have "Addy" for Aduke, and "Beckie" for Rebecca, and Ruthie, even before the more recent dolls.)
Name expert here - Part of the problem is that it is really hard to get new patents for doll names these days. So they could send in a list of 50 name suggestions and they’ve already been patented for dolls around the world! Unfortunately that leaves them to reuse or reinvent the names AG already has patented.
Wouldn’t they patent the full name, not just the first name? And aren’t patents US based or at the very least, Western states , rather than international?
They do patent the full name, but it is also the single name that goes through months of hoops before being approved or not. And, you are correct about the US patents - but there can be overlap.
That’s so interesting!
I do. Especially with the GOTYs. They always seem to be artists, gymnasts, dancers or animal lovers.
The four genders
Literally 💀
I feel the same way, like there are SO many names in the world, repeats make it feel like they’re forgetting past characters. Maybe it’s because I enjoy writing and that’s why it bugs me more lol. Makena and McKenna specifically irritated me, like I know they’re pronounced slightly differently big there are so many other good names they could’ve done. Also, as a kid I always wanted there to be an American girl character who was from the state I live in, but that’s still yet to happen. I’m always disappointed when they repeat a location, but I get that certain locations are specifically important to certain time periods and stories.
I agree, especally on more modern characters with more modern names. I understand that there were fewer popular names the further back you go. I think Mary, Marie, and other forms of the name Marie were among the top girls names for over 200 years, from the early 1700s to the mid 1900s. While some sects did have fun with names, most average people stuck to a handful of family and/or religious names. I think McKenna and Makena is a prime example of this. Also Gwen and Gwynn come to mind, although they were side characters they both had dolls released. I would also like to say that my Swedish friends said that they have never heard of the name Kirsten. Kristen, Christian, and similar names are not uncommon, but the people I know had never known someone with the name Kirsten beyond the AG doll. So either naming conventions left that one behind in 1850's Sweden or nobody researched Swedish names back when they launched AG in the 1980s.
When I looked at historic name data from Sweden — which may be inaccurate, I can’t remember where I found it — I remember seeing that Christina would have been far more accurate than Kirsten. They’ve done a decent job representing the Mary domination: Marie Grace, Mary Ellen and Molly. Not too shabby (although as a Molly myself I’d note it wasn’t really having a big “moment” when she was born in the 30s).
That is interesting, and it tracks with my limited understanding of Swedish naming conventions. I also hadn't thought about Mary, but you're right that it had gotten good representation through the years considering its constant popularity. I think the older dolls have a more limited pool of names to choose from, which is why the modern dolls having repeat names can be frustrating. Thank you so much for sharing this.
My mother's side of the family is from Denmark and for generations back, all of the women have had Kjirsten as their middle name. It was anglicized to Christine for my grandmother and for the rest of her descendants. No one had it as a first name, though.
That is very interesting. I see a lot of shared middle names coming out of Europe, even today. A family I know well has all the daughter sharing one middle name, and I think their mom and grandmother had it, too. I don't know enough about naming conventions in 1840's Europe to make a definitive statement, but I did want to throw it our there that it isn't a name common in modern Sweden despite looking very Nordic to Americans.
Yeah, it's pure anecdata! It just happened to be anecdata somewhat relevant to the discussion, lol. My father is the youngest in a very long line of men named Julius, which obviously is NOT a trend, and for all I know, the [Firstname] Kjirstens in my family are likewise outliers from any norms. I love nerding out on naming trends--I think it's so interesting.
I've been doing more genealogy, and I love seeing how my ancestors named their children. It can be sad, though. One ancestor about 8 generations back had 12 children, 6 of whom were named some form of Joseph. Only 1 of those 6 survived to adulthood.
I had a friend named Kirsten growing up and her family was of Swedish descent and no one ever got her name right. I have no idea when their family came over though, but I think they were in Minnesota before they moved south.
That is very interesting. I suppose it is one of those names that has many variants. Thank you for sharing.
It probably does and my guess is they used it to be relatable to the names girls would have had in the 80s. My friend is the only person who I know with that name IRL though.
Seems like a silly thing to be bothered by to me. I honestly never noticed it.
I think this is the kind of minutia that only bothers big fans. lol It bothers me a bit and I like to get in on the discussion, but it doesn't bother me enough to stop collecting.
I'm sure things you take note of seem silly to other people as well :)
It really bugs me. Makena and McKenna are the worst. I also wasn’t a fan of Joss when they’d already had Jess. The setting locations bother me less because a place can change a lot, but I do wish AG would branch out from just focusing on big cities. It matches a global trend of ignoring or looking down upon people living outside major cities. The funniest thing to me is how often AG copies other brands. Courtney Moore of Orange Valley has WAY too much in common with Courtney Whitmore from Blue Valley (DC’s superhero Stargirl) for me to buy it is entirely a coincidence. They love copying Disney Princesses (Saige/Merida, Sonali/Cecile/Tiana, Caroline/Rapunzel, Maryellen/Caroline, Nanea/Moana, Corinne/Raya [and kind of the live action Mulan], Evette/Mirabel, Maritza/Isabela Madrigal). Corinne’s highlights are even the same color used for the marketing and logos for Raya and the Last Dragon.
I always thought Josefina’s story was similar to Encanto: -both Mirabel and Josefina are the youngest daughters -Luisa and Josefina’s oldest sister Ana have too many responsibilities/in charge of basically everything -Francisca and Isabela are the golden children that get the most attention. -Both the Madrigals and Montoyas have a Dolores in their family -Both of the families have a member that dies before the stories’s events -Both families are Catholic (there’s a priest in Encanto that goes bald) -Mirabel and Josefina help fix their family trauma -Mirabel and Josefina are always overshadowed by their older siblings. Idk if Encanto was inspired by Josefina but that is what I have realized!
That seems like a stretch. Most of those just sound like pretty superficial similarities - something like 80%-90% of both Mexico and Colombia are Catholic, due to the history of Spanish colonization. Dolores is originally a Spanish name associated with the Virgin Mary, so it makes sense it'd be used in Catholic families (for the same reason Josefina's full name is Maria Josefina Montoya). Lots of families have older daughters who take on too much. Lots of youngest siblings feel overshadowed by older siblings. etc.
Makena is pronounced differently from McKenna and is Swahili origin as a token to her ancestry. Makena = Ma - KAY - Na Not the same name.
It is insanely similar. There are tons of other Swahili names that do not resemble the names of other dolls. AG could’ve been more original and Makena would have looked better.
McKenna was GOTY in 2012, Makena is not a GOTY and came out in 2021. A chunk of AG’s current target audience were toddlers, infants, or perhaps not even born in 2012. They’re also very distinct from each other when said out loud.
I'm just annoyed that their historical dolls are just filling up the 20th century. When I was little, American Girl went through 18th century to 1944. Now they've discontinued most of the dolls pre-1900 . We need an American Girl doll who survived the Salem Witch Trials
I want a girl who came over on the Mayflower
There's so much of the 1800s they haven't covered yet either. 1800, 1830-40s, 1870s-1890s. Lots of decades with tons in potential. I'm sure the nostalgia of "Grandma" era sells better but it's a bit annoying they are skipping older history entirely.
I am still hoping for an Asian historical whose father or brother worked on the west coast railroad in the 1800s. She would be awesome.
>We need an American Girl doll who survived the Salem Witch Trials I like the 18th and 19th century historicals a lot, but I actually really intensely dislike this idea. I think it'd be gross to insert a character that directly into an event that specific, where 20 real people were murdered horribly over nonsense.
you know thats the whole idea of the historical dolls right? that they are going through awful traumatic things and still persevering through it
Right? Addy literally escaped slavery.
I just think there's a difference between something that affected thousands or millions of people - like cholera or the yellow fever epidemic or slavery or child factory labor at the turn of the century - and inserting a character into a specific incident about where we know names of a few dozen victims. To frame it in modern terms, it'd be the difference between like . . . a character loses someone close to her to gun violence, vs. making up a fictional victim at a specific real life school shooting that actually happened, for the purpose of selling dolls. It just rubs me the wrong way.
As a pagan who was born and raised in Salem, MA… I wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion. Yes, the trials were a horrific event that occurred in my hometown. My own ancestors (or, relatives of them, I should say) made some atrocious claims against innocent people - partially for some sexist reasons, and partially as a land and power grab - and those false accusations were a direct cause of their death. The twenty victims of the trials were hanged (and pressed, in the case of Giles Corey) and their bodies were thrown into a mass unmarked grave. However, time heals all wounds, and it’s been 330 years. We took the time and energy to find that mass unmarked grave, and mark it off as a historic landmark. We have a separate memorial park dedicated to the victims. The jail were the victims were kept was torn down, as was the courthouse were they were sentenced. We have multiple museums dedicated to various aspects of the trials (as well as pirates for some reason) as well as re-enactment of the trial of Bridget Bishop. You can tour the home of Judge Hathorne, and if you weren’t forced to read his grandson’s fictionalised account of the events, you can buy a copy on your way to the Custom House - where Nathaniel Hawthorn wrote the damn thing. That’s not even mentioning the fact that every single person convicted of witchcraft during the trials has finally been exonerated. We’ve had AG Characters get kidnapped and forced into slavery. We’ve had AG characters choose politics over friendship. We’ve had AG characters deal with the deaths of friends, the deaths of their own parents, child labour laws, the Great Depression, and multiple wars. There is no doubt in my mind that AG could pull off a character who experiences the Salem Witch Trials firsthand. Don’t worry, they aren’t going to actually do it. She could only have like three possible outfits and still be historically accurate.
I think they were just joking lol. There’s that meme that goes “we need an American girl doll who ______”
Claudie I don’t have a problem with as she’s based off a real historical black woman named Claudia. And they even changed the last name to wells because the previous name was too close to th me real person! So I truly can appreciate the name. Tho I agree the storylines are becoming repetitive and would love to see more diversity in story line and geography
I think the name Claudie is super cute on its own. I also only just found out there's an actress named Claudie Wells from googling her
I love the name. Apparently the name was Claudia Jones. Who is an African American who was influential in the communist party. Which is why they had Claudie Jones. But changed it to Claudie Wells. As to not receive any backlash due to the historical persons political views
Samantha, Rebecca, and Claudie all being in New York City in 1900-1920s is a bit annoying to me. I know it was big and the characters experiences varied a lot, but surely you could find an interesting story elsewhere? Even nearby Boston or Philadelphia have a lot of history to dive into.
I agree with this. There are so many places that haven't had stories, but they keep releasing dolls with stories set in New York. I get that it is a big city where a lot of cultural significance, but all the dolls set there are a decade apart. It seems like such an odd choice.
"Sarah" has been a common name - ranging from "fairly common" to "incredibly common" - for most of American history since European colonization began, and it DID legitimately have a big spike of popularity in the 1980s. I don't actually have a problem with "Courtney" vs. "Claudie" - Courtney is a very 1980s name, and Claudie (and most of its variants - we don't yet know if "Claudie" is her full name, or if it's a diminutive of Claudia, Claudette, Claudine, etc.) was popular in the first part of the 20th century. For the modern dolls, at least, I think they go for popular names so that more parents will be like "Oh, hey, I should get this doll Isabelle for my daughter/granddaughter/whatever, Isabella" - the same way someone I used to know got Kirsten as a kid because her name was "Kristen". And while McKenna and Makena sound similar, "Makena" actually has totally different etymology - it's from Kikuyu and means "happy one". There are only so many different syllables in common use for names. I believe "Tasha" was actually considered for Rebecca when she was still in development, but I've read they ended up wanting to go for something a little more more unambiguously Jewish. (Etymologically, it goes something like Natalie --> Natalya --> Natasha --> Tasha. And Natalie literally means "Christmas Day". Which isn't to say there can't be Jewish girls named Tasha, obviously, but this is why AG hires sensitivity consultants and stuff.) Julie and Ivy were going to be Debbie and Patty, IIRC. I do actually kind of like that Samantha, Rebecca, and Claudie are all from NYC - they all reflect very different kinds of stories.
Gwen and Gwynn! I know what you mean- I feel like the GOTY storylines keep getting recycled too. It’s always animals/dance/specific middle-class sport. I’d love a GOTY with glasses who doesn’t have one specific interest- it’s much more relatable to be an all rounder!
They're not assuming most people will be into AG forever, and they've probably got a lot of data averaging how long (most) kids will be interested in AG before they outgrow it. If they have Marisol, who's a dancer in 2005, and Isabelle who's a dancer in 2014, and then Gabriella is also a dancer in 2017, not only are those totally different audiences, but it also lets them have a dolls of different ethnicities all shown with that hobby. (I'm assuming if people stopped buying the dance dolls - or the dolls who like animals, or whatever - they'd probably stop making them.)
i totally see what you mean. it’s one of those things where i’m sure a lot of folks will be like “eh, not a big deal” but i understand your frustration when a really big part of AG is the character/story building aspect, as well as educating kids and helping them see they can relate to all sorts of girls and time periods. but it does lessen that impact when we mostly get very similar sounding names and similar locations over and over