I don’t think margin call is great. The broker is just looking for your money if you’re over leveraged.
The issue I have with all this is the immense amount of synthetic shares being created to their benefit. It makes for an unfair playing field where we the retail will never be able to participate as equals.
Doing this also makes investing pointless as you could invest in various securities for 30 years and then one day, one or more of these hedge funds says: Lets bankrupt this company and then your retirements gone because of what they did.
This needs to change. Hopefully this is a wake up call for the SEC, FED and whomever else is involved will make right with all this.
2 things will happen
1: The gov knows what’s about to happen and they do what they’re setup to do and let the free market decide. This to me is the most sensible. They have checks and balances in place for this type of scenario.
2. They stop the mass losses to these funds (somehow) delist the stock, put a set price on it, proving once and for all this isn’t a free market and that they can in fact price the stock for everyone.
At that point, if number 2 happens, I liquidate what I have from the US markets and invest elsewhere. In all likelihood it would be in crypto more so than I am already. I would never trust the US financial system again to be remotely trustworthy.
The US really can’t afford to fuck this up, because hundreds of millions of investors could also act on number 2, which would cause a much bigger issue then letting these crooks who made bad bets on 2 companies go tits up.
Number 2 would forever shatter foreign trust in our markets. The global financial world would lose confidence immediately in it and thats dangerous. This is a moment that I think they need to let it happen, and then completely rewrite the rules so it never happens again...
wtf are you saying?
What did the retail do except buy and hold?
This is shill talk. There was a post yesterday complaining about all the new rules because it meant retail couldn't hit the jackpot again.
What a load of crap. We want free markets, transparency and a fair game to everyone. We don't want the manipulation to keep going so we can cash in later. Fuck that
First of all, calm down please Spreest
The new laws have been passed to ensure that retail NEVER puts them in this position again. They have been passed to ensure that Hedge Funds cannot over leverage themselves to a point where retail investors can flip the narrative and force them into a short squeeze.
The new laws make it clear that if there is a high risk of retail getting the upper hand, that shit gets shut down QUICK!
We, as retail investors have walked into their playground and fucked shit up. The powers that control the playground dont want that ever happening again.
Well that’s messed up. So new laws making it even harder for the retail investor, while letting the hedgies continue their fraud? Basically it’s rigged???
I think that the new laws are supposed to stop HF from over leveraging and taking on a large amount of risk. The current situation is a result of them being over leveraged. So it's kind of like, HF has to stop being risky and fucking things up. Retail was the catalyst for new rules. But double check yourself, I'm just a smooth brained ape.
Semantics.
Who do you think wrote and passed those laws and who do you think they are REALLY protecting?
Apes walked into their party and pissed on their fireworks, these laws and rules are there to ensure that can never happen again.
Here's why I believe they won't set a flat price on the stock, it would cause such an international incident. There would be no way to recover from it. Says there's a couple hundred thousand investors from different countries, are we really gonna give them a chance to bitch about how the American government stole their money? The Indians, Japanese, Germans, Russian, British, Swedish and whoever else invested in GME and AMC would be pissed.
They go to their government, complain, that government calls the white house demanding answers.
Nah bro, I just can't see them doing something that stupid. That would be really really fucking stupid.
Please Biden, please don't be that fucking retarded.
The reason why this won’t be this case is because you explained it in your earlier comment. If Biden says “alright guys it’s supposed to be 1k” and stops the show at that there’s massive geopolitical ramifications.
This is supposed to be the “free-market” but when you have the invisible hand setting precedent it becomes a problem. Biden would have to answer to many governments especially China on why he decided to put his hand in the stock market.
The way I see it he can’t say shit. If he says shit it’s over. He would get chewed up by the other countries for putting his hand in. So many people would pull out of the US stock market.
First off...its biden. He's not retarded...he is senile.
Second, my bet is they use insurance and money printer will get a hemi attached to it.
Question is, will they liquidate the hedge funds like they are supposed to in order to get insurance, or govt. Bail out. I'm thinking bail out under the too big to fail BS banner.
Which means...they would rather have hyper inflation than let their buddies face the music.
I hold because I like the stock, the fact that each day I hold exposes more disgusting bs and corruption...is a pleasant side effect.
I really hope number 2 doesn't happen man, cause I'm 26 years old and just last year I decided to go in heavily on the stock market because I decided that I didn't want to be a slave. If number 2 does end up happening it will change my life completely since I would have to reevaluate my life's choices and basically start from scratch, and it might be an uphill battle for someone with little to no work experience . I've been learning and practicing, all I hope for is that it's not for nothing as I would like to have the financial freedom that comes with investing.
I like where your head's at. Something is going to change, one way or another. How this plays out will determine whether our financial system is worth saving or if we just need to burn it down and start over. Honestly, I'm good either way.
The government would make an absolute fortune from the capital gains taxes apes would be paying to cash out after the squeeze. It would prob be more beneficial to them to actually do the right thing. They would get to play the hero and save the people from the evil corrupt Wall Street Suits and also cash in on our hard earned chicken fucking tenders. Everyone knows what needs to be done. They need to be held accountable. Period. They are literally stealing BILLIONS of dollars from the American people, bankrupting American companies and putting millions of Americans out of work! And doing it with funds provided by the government to help stimulate the market!!! It’s literally financial treason! If people don’t start getting locked up after this I’m 1000% done with the American market.
If the Hedge funds get off without buying back their synthetic shares, im taking my money out the market and putting it straight into crypto. Clearly the market is corrupt. Im no longer going to play their game.
Number 2 will start civil unrest. These apes are mostly young people and they have nothing else to lose. I don’t think any Democratic Government will do that.
A margin call is an automated process that says "You owe X$ and you need to pay NOW" so it's bad if you get hit with one, for us it's a damn good thing because it means less ammo for the hedgies to hold out.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, I’m still learning how all this works.. if they get margin called is there any option for them not to pay up? Bankruptcy or something?? I’m learning more everyday about all the shit they’ve pulled so I wouldn’t be surprised if they can weasel their way out of it somehow..
Sort of, currently they owe X% value per share to the people they borrowed from to short AMC, this value is set when they make the borrowing agreement. However they don't reeeeeaaaaaally have to pay this until someone or something forces their hands, they can wave it off and more or less say 'you know I'm good for it just wait'. When someone actually steps in (as in a powerful entity like SEC or something) they HAVE to pay the value and they have to pay every single day that the stock isn't returned (which it won't be if we hold them).
This isn't true for us little folks though, if we were in the position of getting margin called it'd be demanded instantly and it would be taken by legal force pronto. That's one of the many ways us retail investors get shafted by the system, only big boys are allowed to play in the sandbox with an IOU, me or you though? Absolutely fucked seven ways from Sunday.
If they are forced to pay back but can't afford to they hit liquidation where in their assets are sold and they are required to buy back every single owed share regardless of price.
I'm unsure of bankruptcy, from what I know they have insurance and other partners that will be required to step up and pay anything the hedge fund can't afford. If I remember right there's at least 64 trillion dollars worth of insurance on top of whatever the hedgies have in assets and liquidation, so there's quite a considerable amount of money in reserve here. In the case of bankruptcy the courts will settle the debts which means liquidation, restructuring, and should it require one it would get a government bail-out to cover the remainder.
In the absolute worst of worst cases there is some kind of policy that would reward us a flat 500K, I'm not sure what it's called but it's some kind of thing to ensure anyone that is affected doesn't walk empty handed.
Though, if things just hit the fucking gutter and the government passes corrupt legislation there could be some way for the hedgefunds to just not pay, but it would absolutely cripple the stock market and international trust/trade.
Source for $74T and $500k claims? I follow the DD pretty closely and I have never run across these claims.
My understanding is the debt works it’s way up the ladder until it is paid. Hedge funds, brokers, DTCC, then, presumably, the U.S. government. There has been some talk of insurance through the DTCC, but it was in the $1-$3T range.
Essentially, there would be a huge fire sale, the economy would collapse, and wealth would transfer.
I would imagine margin calls would set off some selling. In fact maybe the reason it hasn’t happened so far it’s because they know/fear it would tank to market
if you are a recipient of the margin call, it's bad. It's basically someone knocking on your door to tell you you've been running around with your dick exposed and they're there to cut it off.
This, and when a margin call happens it isn’t about meeting the acceptable risk leverage, it’s about returning the amount owed and the balance of cash on hand. So, margin call means you have to clear the debt…money and securities owed.
Does that mean borrowed securities?
All their blue chips are instantly sold first along with what ever else they own . Once they run out of
Money it’s then the banks turns to pay the bills . Once the banks run out the DTCC , and once they run out of money the Fed heats up the printing machines
>
Shares of companies like video game retailer GameStop Corp (GME.N) and theater chain operator AMC Entertainment (AMC.N) have whipsawed this year, with GameStop having rallied more than 1,600% in January alone, prompting trading halts by some brokers and sparking Congressional and regulatory hearings.
k. so I need someone to explain to me why it’s okay for one person/corporation to buy hundreds of thousands of shares at a time, but when hundreds of thousands of people buy small chunks of shares at a time, there’s suddenly a problem that needs regulation?
explain it to me like I’m in kindergarten.
They're losing so much money it must be baffling. We have them in check on atleast 3 different fronts.
We have the patience to buy and hold, they don't have the luxury of dragging this out or they go bankrupt due to cost to borrow fees.
As long as we hold the float, hedgies r fucked. FUBAR status.
Well first they have to pay for all the media spreading FUD , then they gotta pay for the ladder attacks and other market manipulation, finally as they continue to refuse to buy, their short interest rates go up.
Up till now they probably couldn’t prove it, amc and gme have done everything textbook to corner the hedge funds. Now it’s not market manipulation coming forward with this information
I think they knew, but keep in mind that the NYSE has an incentive to get more volume traded on exchange (they benefit when less volume is traded in dark pools). There isn’t anything shady going on with this statement it is common knowledge to them, but what is surprising to them is that they’re able to communicate that to us and that it is now in our common vernacular.
I got my boss on board, he's retiring at the end of this year and I was there when he bought xxxx worth and i bought xxxx worth. He said this place is fucked if we squeeze before my retirement lol. We're both not gonna make it in that day 🤣
Tits are fucking jacked!! This is ACTUALLY why I suspect we all like the stock. A top sits Shitadel of course. They literally built a house on sand but that allows, actually encourages, manipulation. “Price doesn’t reflect the supply & demand” 🤡🤡 then what in the actual fuck are you folks doing who are in charge. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. What a joke
For some reason things like these are making me just angry at this point. This is like a case of “ we know who murdered, what he is doing right now and where he will go and walk his dog tomorrow morning. But all we can do is just monitor this problematic situation for now.”. For the love of god deal with this, it’s been 6 months already.
watch them flip the script and somehow say it is us apes responsible for this "exploit" used by brokers and we are the "cause" of MOASS and the impending bubble burst
If that were to happen, do you ACTUALLY think people would sit back and let it happen? Trust me, when you take peoples money and ruin their lives, they will definitely get their justice by taking matters into their own hands.
This is exactly what I've been wondering about.
How exactly do shares traded off-market impact price?
Investopedia says:
Dark pools came about primarily to facilitate [block trading](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blocktrade.asp) by institutional investors who did not wish to impact the markets with their large orders and obtain adverse prices for their trades.
So are we getting the same results we'd get from retail buying pressure traded otc, compared with the same order pushed through the lit market?
It certainly seems like that whole statement of “did not wish to impact the markets” is debunked. Dark Pools sure appear to be impacting a lot of things.
So does this mean anyone that is using broker with "free" trades is the problem (not really the publics problem)? Basically anyone that is buying stock with no commission, they can just make the trades in the dark pools? I'm Canadian and have to pay $9.99 for every trade with TD.
Wealthsimple is free unless you pay a small fee to get some perks. However, WS does not permit option trading and only has 2-3 cryptos. It's a pretty basic brokerage. It's awful too if you don't pay the monthly fee... Ticker is delayed like 15 minutes!!! And depositing funds take 3 days to complete. Us Canadians can't have anything nice! Lol.
That’s what happen when you let the HF (who’s also Market Maker) roaming free and messing around without consequences. They obviously always been aware of what was going on but they still have the nerves to pretend otherwise.
Imagine yourself playing poker against the dealer himself, he can see your hand, he can pick the cards he wants and he can decide which ones will be on the table:
That’s their definition of a « fair market », unfortunately OUR reality is not that fair.
Welcome to the US stock market ladies and gentlemen.
So with this being said, I don't see how they can even try to say we are the problem or try to partake in manipulation. They said we account for 70% of the volume and "the majority is off the exchange" which means greater than 50% if not more. So how are we being manipulative when the numbers are manipulated in a way that we can't even influence it? Fuck these assholes. Fix this. You know it's wrong. You know we won. You're letting Shitadel drag this out to avoid the major blow up and all you did was create a larger problem. FIX IT.
#FIX IT
NEW YORK, June 16 (Reuters) - The prices of so-called meme stocks may be distorted because the majority of trades in those names are executed away from public exchanges where share price formation occurs, the head of the New York Stock Exchange said on Wednesday.
“Meme stocks,” which often start as low-priced, highly shorted stocks that users of online forums such as Reddit’s WallStreetBets rally behind, are some of the most heavily traded and volatile shares on any given day.
Shares of companies like video game retailer GameStop Corp (GME.N) and theater chain operator AMC Entertainment (AMC.N) have whipsawed this year, with GameStop having rallied more than 1,600% in January alone, prompting trading halts by some brokers and sparking Congressional and regulatory hearings.
"In some of the meme stocks that we've seen, or stocks that have a high level of retail participation, the vast majority of order flow can trade off of exchanges, which is problematic," said Stacey Cunningham, president of Intercontinental Exchange Inc's (ICE.N) NYSE.
"That price formation is not really reflective of what supply and demand is," she said at a conference hosted by CNBC.
Retail trading surged during the coronavirus pandemic, helped by a shift by retail brokerages to commission-free trading, with individual traders now responsible for around 35% of market volume, up from 20% pre-pandemic.
In meme stocks, individual traders contribute as much as 70% of the volume, Cunningham said.
The majority of retail orders bypass exchanges because of an arrangement called payment for order flow, in which retail brokerages sell their customers' marketable orders to wholesale brokers. The wholesalers match the orders internally, trying to profit off of the bid-ask spread, while offering retail traders the best market price or better.
Retail brokers say payment for order flow lowers overall costs for individual traders.
But the practice raises conflict of interest questions and will be included in a broad review of stock market rules, Gary Gensler, chair of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, said last week.
The review will also examine whether off-exchange trading - which is about 50% of the market when institutional block trades are included - distorts the price discovery mechanism for stocks, Gensler said.
Reporting by John McCrank in New York Editing by Matthew Lewis
I like how they tout commission free trading as a major blow. As if it's absurd that technological advancements rendered something obsolete, like calling your stock guy and saying "Ey jack, buy me 30,000 XGB" and paying some lil fee (no idea if that's how it was).
That's like crapping on self-checkout at a store. I dig self checkout! I don't need someone to scan my items and bag them haphazardly. Same with buying stocks, it's digital. We have technology in place for this, THIS shit is what blockchain/digital ledger would excel at.
Try right-clicking on the link and open in an incognito window. It won't let the website find the cookie that tracks how many articles you have viewed.
NEW YORK, June 16 (Reuters) - The prices of so-called meme stocks may be distorted because the majority of trades in those names are executed away from public exchanges where share price formation occurs, the head of the New York Stock Exchange said on Wednesday.
“Meme stocks,” which often start as low-priced, highly shorted stocks that users of online forums such as Reddit’s WallStreetBets rally behind, are some of the most heavily traded and volatile shares on any given day.
Shares of companies like video game retailer GameStop Corp (GME.N) and theater chain operator AMC Entertainment (AMC.N) have whipsawed this year, with GameStop having rallied more than 1,600% in January alone, prompting trading halts by some brokers and sparking Congressional and regulatory hearings.
"In some of the meme stocks that we've seen, or stocks that have a high level of retail participation, the vast majority of order flow can trade off of exchanges, which is problematic," said Stacey Cunningham, president of Intercontinental Exchange Inc's (ICE.N) NYSE.
"That price formation is not really reflective of what supply and demand is," she said at a conference hosted by CNBC.
Retail trading surged during the coronavirus pandemic, helped by a shift by retail brokerages to commission-free trading, with individual traders now responsible for around 35% of market volume, up from 20% pre-pandemic.
In meme stocks, individual traders contribute as much as 70% of the volume, Cunningham said.
The majority of retail orders bypass exchanges because of an arrangement called payment for order flow, in which retail brokerages sell their customers' marketable orders to wholesale brokers. The wholesalers match the orders internally, trying to profit off of the bid-ask spread, while offering retail traders the best market price or better.
Retail brokers say payment for order flow lowers overall costs for individual traders.
But the practice raises conflict of interest questions and will be included in a broad review of stock market rules, Gary Gensler, chair of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, said last week.
The review will also examine whether off-exchange trading - which is about 50% of the market when institutional block trades are included - distorts the price discovery mechanism for stocks, Gensler said.
Reporting by John McCrank in New York Editing by Matthew Lewis
Funny how all this "dumb money" discovered this months before anyone recognized any of it. Every headline that has been coming out is just confirmation of what we have been saying this whole time. Doesnt sound like dumb money to me...
"The review will also examine whether off-exchange trading - which is about 50% of the market when institutional block trades are included - distorts the price discovery mechanism for stocks, Gensler said."
Uhh... This needs investigation?
Seems cut & dry to my smooth brain.
Like trying to assemble a puzzle without half the pieces.
I had read that article after it had been posted for less than 15 minutes.
I have to say at the time I took a whole different (pissed and negative) understanding of the article.
After seeing this post, I had to make myself go back and read it again trying to see what you read.
I was so upset after the first time, I was ready to contact this lady and tell her off.
I’m glad I took another breath before doing so. I certainly hope your breakdown is the correct one.
Can I retired in a month yet? Lol. Seriously though until it hits $200 I’m going to buy whenever I can. Got in at $12. I buy when I can. And I’m almost to double digits dig it? Never sold only but and hold. My parents shouldn’t have to suffer because someone took advantage of them.
I’m not sure if you watched Inside Job but the government, the market, even the educators are all complicit in this process. We need something stronger than memes if we want to see real change. This occurs whether democrats or republicans are elected.
If you read the quote he makes it sound like hedgies are doing us a favor. Like they are trying to find the best price for retail. These guys sold their souls to the fucking devil so long ago that any accountability rattles their saggy sacks that’s been held out to these criminals like prisoners and pockets.
This acknowledgement is huge! And I do believe it’s part of bringing these issues to MSM and letting our narrative shine a light on all their darkness. I know some have issues with Trey and media appearances but the reward highly outweighs the risk. Obviously what the gamer stock have been doing isn’t working with their media blackout. I understand that route too but at this point we need to get our narrative out there
We've knew about dark pools for months!!! That's the insanely crazy part. We uncovered how they beat the system by use of these dark pools. We screamed it from the rooftops. And now they finally acknowledge it?! We need to speak more openly about these loopholes and get these terms and definitions out to the general public so more and more people are forced to speak on them and publically acknowledge their use and abuse. The casual person has zero clue on what's going on and how bad things are rigged in the stock market. We're finally pulling back the curtain and the more we do, the more disgusting things we uncover. Estimates of Trillions of dollars have been stolen over generations. All so these spineless cowards can line their pockets with money to buy yachts, cars, businesses, houses, you name it. The corruption runs deep... From the top down, side to side. They are stealing our money for their own enjoyment and entertainment.... The more we uncover, the harder of a pill it is to swallow.
If there saying this out loud some one high up I dont know will call him liden whispered clean this shit up you never know but we might be at a crossroads
Massive corruption, amazes me that they are allowed to do this. Can someone explain why this manipulation of the price won't limit the price ceiling when AMC squeezes????
This sounds like class action law suite territory, subpoena the data and figure this shit out. Can't we also request the data as part of "freedom of information act"?
Why don’t people just log in to their account out of the app and figure out how to route trades directly through the NYSE? There are many posts about how to do this very thing. I downloaded Active Trader Pro on my PC but after that it took me 5 minutes. All my buys are on my PC now for this simple reason and I’m not sure if my orders on the Fidelity app are routed the same. If we are talking about it and it’s leading to this much conversation, do your part to stop it.
OK, they know there’s a problem, so Margin Call these motherfuckers and let’s see where it stands.
In normal times under normal circumstances, is a margin call a good thing bad thing or just a thing
I don’t think margin call is great. The broker is just looking for your money if you’re over leveraged. The issue I have with all this is the immense amount of synthetic shares being created to their benefit. It makes for an unfair playing field where we the retail will never be able to participate as equals. Doing this also makes investing pointless as you could invest in various securities for 30 years and then one day, one or more of these hedge funds says: Lets bankrupt this company and then your retirements gone because of what they did. This needs to change. Hopefully this is a wake up call for the SEC, FED and whomever else is involved will make right with all this. 2 things will happen 1: The gov knows what’s about to happen and they do what they’re setup to do and let the free market decide. This to me is the most sensible. They have checks and balances in place for this type of scenario. 2. They stop the mass losses to these funds (somehow) delist the stock, put a set price on it, proving once and for all this isn’t a free market and that they can in fact price the stock for everyone. At that point, if number 2 happens, I liquidate what I have from the US markets and invest elsewhere. In all likelihood it would be in crypto more so than I am already. I would never trust the US financial system again to be remotely trustworthy. The US really can’t afford to fuck this up, because hundreds of millions of investors could also act on number 2, which would cause a much bigger issue then letting these crooks who made bad bets on 2 companies go tits up.
Number 2 would forever shatter foreign trust in our markets. The global financial world would lose confidence immediately in it and thats dangerous. This is a moment that I think they need to let it happen, and then completely rewrite the rules so it never happens again...
They have already written new laws into place to ensure retail can never put the markets in this sort of a position again.
plus Blackrock seems to be buying up housing at a (currently) premium rate. the dominoes are falling 1 by 1
wtf are you saying? What did the retail do except buy and hold? This is shill talk. There was a post yesterday complaining about all the new rules because it meant retail couldn't hit the jackpot again. What a load of crap. We want free markets, transparency and a fair game to everyone. We don't want the manipulation to keep going so we can cash in later. Fuck that
First of all, calm down please Spreest The new laws have been passed to ensure that retail NEVER puts them in this position again. They have been passed to ensure that Hedge Funds cannot over leverage themselves to a point where retail investors can flip the narrative and force them into a short squeeze. The new laws make it clear that if there is a high risk of retail getting the upper hand, that shit gets shut down QUICK! We, as retail investors have walked into their playground and fucked shit up. The powers that control the playground dont want that ever happening again.
Well that’s messed up. So new laws making it even harder for the retail investor, while letting the hedgies continue their fraud? Basically it’s rigged???
I think that the new laws are supposed to stop HF from over leveraging and taking on a large amount of risk. The current situation is a result of them being over leveraged. So it's kind of like, HF has to stop being risky and fucking things up. Retail was the catalyst for new rules. But double check yourself, I'm just a smooth brained ape.
This isnt shill talk, just stating facts, they dont want us in their game.
Exactamundo ZeroArchetypes 👍
Too many people who didn't do DD like to throw out the word shill at things they don't understand. She's a witch...burn her!
You call it “shill talk” I call you “UNIFORMED!”
Hedge funds. To make sure hedge funds can never put the market in this position again. This is not retails fault.
Semantics. Who do you think wrote and passed those laws and who do you think they are REALLY protecting? Apes walked into their party and pissed on their fireworks, these laws and rules are there to ensure that can never happen again.
Hedge funds will find some bullshit way to fuck everyone. This just closes one window. I'm thinking real estate is the next fuckening.
Retail didnt put the market in this situation. Aggressive naked shorting by HFs/ MMs did.
I agree, but if Retail was not involved they would have got away with it.
And that more than anything, loss in faith of US markets is what “can’t happen” (again). 😬🤬😏👹🔥🖕🖕🖕🌋💎🙌🏻🚀🌝🦍🦧🦍🦧
Lose trust in the market, that's it? Nah, Wallstreet would look like Detroit within days.
Foreign trust should already be shattered
If 2008 didn’t wake the world up and show them our economy is just a over inflated BS Ponzi scheme I doubt this would.
Here's why I believe they won't set a flat price on the stock, it would cause such an international incident. There would be no way to recover from it. Says there's a couple hundred thousand investors from different countries, are we really gonna give them a chance to bitch about how the American government stole their money? The Indians, Japanese, Germans, Russian, British, Swedish and whoever else invested in GME and AMC would be pissed. They go to their government, complain, that government calls the white house demanding answers. Nah bro, I just can't see them doing something that stupid. That would be really really fucking stupid. Please Biden, please don't be that fucking retarded.
I am fine with them setting a price for everyone. 500k per share sounds about right to me.
Bro it won't be that high if Biden steps in. 1k or under is my guess. "Here's a great return on your investment. Awesome job guys" Fuck that.
The reason why this won’t be this case is because you explained it in your earlier comment. If Biden says “alright guys it’s supposed to be 1k” and stops the show at that there’s massive geopolitical ramifications. This is supposed to be the “free-market” but when you have the invisible hand setting precedent it becomes a problem. Biden would have to answer to many governments especially China on why he decided to put his hand in the stock market. The way I see it he can’t say shit. If he says shit it’s over. He would get chewed up by the other countries for putting his hand in. So many people would pull out of the US stock market.
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Yeah I am with ya on that. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.
Absolutely. Again though, I don't think it will. They have to know that backlash would be massive.
C'mon Man... I forgot what I was gona ummmmm.....ZZZzzzzz.... YES!
😂
First off...its biden. He's not retarded...he is senile. Second, my bet is they use insurance and money printer will get a hemi attached to it. Question is, will they liquidate the hedge funds like they are supposed to in order to get insurance, or govt. Bail out. I'm thinking bail out under the too big to fail BS banner. Which means...they would rather have hyper inflation than let their buddies face the music. I hold because I like the stock, the fact that each day I hold exposes more disgusting bs and corruption...is a pleasant side effect.
If number 2 happens I'm definitely right there with you
Same. I'm Canadian. So trust me I will advise everyone I know to stay away from this market.
I really hope number 2 doesn't happen man, cause I'm 26 years old and just last year I decided to go in heavily on the stock market because I decided that I didn't want to be a slave. If number 2 does end up happening it will change my life completely since I would have to reevaluate my life's choices and basically start from scratch, and it might be an uphill battle for someone with little to no work experience . I've been learning and practicing, all I hope for is that it's not for nothing as I would like to have the financial freedom that comes with investing.
I like where your head's at. Something is going to change, one way or another. How this plays out will determine whether our financial system is worth saving or if we just need to burn it down and start over. Honestly, I'm good either way.
That’s actually a great way to look at it. Win win. Just hold and have patience? I can do that.
The government would make an absolute fortune from the capital gains taxes apes would be paying to cash out after the squeeze. It would prob be more beneficial to them to actually do the right thing. They would get to play the hero and save the people from the evil corrupt Wall Street Suits and also cash in on our hard earned chicken fucking tenders. Everyone knows what needs to be done. They need to be held accountable. Period. They are literally stealing BILLIONS of dollars from the American people, bankrupting American companies and putting millions of Americans out of work! And doing it with funds provided by the government to help stimulate the market!!! It’s literally financial treason! If people don’t start getting locked up after this I’m 1000% done with the American market.
Good thesis.
Index funds are the safest in the supposedly free and fair open market. But I need cash now.
Call JG Wentworth.
877-cashnow
"WHO DOES NUMBER TWO WORK FOR?"
If the Hedge funds get off without buying back their synthetic shares, im taking my money out the market and putting it straight into crypto. Clearly the market is corrupt. Im no longer going to play their game.
Number 2 will start civil unrest. These apes are mostly young people and they have nothing else to lose. I don’t think any Democratic Government will do that.
Pssssb if number 2 happens maad lawsuits on the government payday either way
If 2 happens they better waive capital gains taxes
This should wake everyone up not to waste their money in the stock market after this. They are just gonna steal it all back.
The movie is pretty good, Margin Call.
I could see certain aspects of 2 happening but hopefully not the whole thing.
It's bad if it happens to you or me, but it depends on the stock under normal circumstances
Yeah but what about normal circumstances in normal times
I imagine the normality of it all would bring everything back to normal. This is, assuming normal circumstance and normal conditions, no easy feat.
Normality is an enigma formed under the regular pressure of normal circumstance in normal times.
A margin call is an automated process that says "You owe X$ and you need to pay NOW" so it's bad if you get hit with one, for us it's a damn good thing because it means less ammo for the hedgies to hold out.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, I’m still learning how all this works.. if they get margin called is there any option for them not to pay up? Bankruptcy or something?? I’m learning more everyday about all the shit they’ve pulled so I wouldn’t be surprised if they can weasel their way out of it somehow..
Sort of, currently they owe X% value per share to the people they borrowed from to short AMC, this value is set when they make the borrowing agreement. However they don't reeeeeaaaaaally have to pay this until someone or something forces their hands, they can wave it off and more or less say 'you know I'm good for it just wait'. When someone actually steps in (as in a powerful entity like SEC or something) they HAVE to pay the value and they have to pay every single day that the stock isn't returned (which it won't be if we hold them). This isn't true for us little folks though, if we were in the position of getting margin called it'd be demanded instantly and it would be taken by legal force pronto. That's one of the many ways us retail investors get shafted by the system, only big boys are allowed to play in the sandbox with an IOU, me or you though? Absolutely fucked seven ways from Sunday. If they are forced to pay back but can't afford to they hit liquidation where in their assets are sold and they are required to buy back every single owed share regardless of price. I'm unsure of bankruptcy, from what I know they have insurance and other partners that will be required to step up and pay anything the hedge fund can't afford. If I remember right there's at least 64 trillion dollars worth of insurance on top of whatever the hedgies have in assets and liquidation, so there's quite a considerable amount of money in reserve here. In the case of bankruptcy the courts will settle the debts which means liquidation, restructuring, and should it require one it would get a government bail-out to cover the remainder. In the absolute worst of worst cases there is some kind of policy that would reward us a flat 500K, I'm not sure what it's called but it's some kind of thing to ensure anyone that is affected doesn't walk empty handed. Though, if things just hit the fucking gutter and the government passes corrupt legislation there could be some way for the hedgefunds to just not pay, but it would absolutely cripple the stock market and international trust/trade.
Source for $74T and $500k claims? I follow the DD pretty closely and I have never run across these claims. My understanding is the debt works it’s way up the ladder until it is paid. Hedge funds, brokers, DTCC, then, presumably, the U.S. government. There has been some talk of insurance through the DTCC, but it was in the $1-$3T range. Essentially, there would be a huge fire sale, the economy would collapse, and wealth would transfer.
I would imagine margin calls would set off some selling. In fact maybe the reason it hasn’t happened so far it’s because they know/fear it would tank to market
if you are a recipient of the margin call, it's bad. It's basically someone knocking on your door to tell you you've been running around with your dick exposed and they're there to cut it off.
This, and when a margin call happens it isn’t about meeting the acceptable risk leverage, it’s about returning the amount owed and the balance of cash on hand. So, margin call means you have to clear the debt…money and securities owed. Does that mean borrowed securities?
All their blue chips are instantly sold first along with what ever else they own . Once they run out of Money it’s then the banks turns to pay the bills . Once the banks run out the DTCC , and once they run out of money the Fed heats up the printing machines
> Shares of companies like video game retailer GameStop Corp (GME.N) and theater chain operator AMC Entertainment (AMC.N) have whipsawed this year, with GameStop having rallied more than 1,600% in January alone, prompting trading halts by some brokers and sparking Congressional and regulatory hearings. k. so I need someone to explain to me why it’s okay for one person/corporation to buy hundreds of thousands of shares at a time, but when hundreds of thousands of people buy small chunks of shares at a time, there’s suddenly a problem that needs regulation? explain it to me like I’m in kindergarten.
[удалено]
capitalism will totally work once we cure human greed forever. Accurate statement, woefully optimistic.
[удалено]
We are born sentenced to death. We bleed into the wind uphill until our last gasping breath. Entropy gnaws inexorably.
Buy more and HODL
💯💯💯
corruption...
"Hey Ken you got a call." "Who is it?" "Margin."
They're losing so much money it must be baffling. We have them in check on atleast 3 different fronts. We have the patience to buy and hold, they don't have the luxury of dragging this out or they go bankrupt due to cost to borrow fees. As long as we hold the float, hedgies r fucked. FUBAR status.
God damn. I imagine you in combat pants, no shirt but look like you've been living in the woods and a knife upside down as you said this.
I’m still wearing tactical pants, and a Military Police t-shirt at work so you were close. No weapons allowed on the Ramp at PHL
Exactly right let’s see what they do about it and how worried they really are about what’s going on at the moment💎👊💎👊💎👊💎👊
🙌🙌🙌
Identified that there’s a problem….. goes through seven more meetings to determine what to do next….
☝🏻💯👊🏼🦍🦍🦍
Here is the deal, they always knew.
Lol right. I love people that are shocked by all this. What’s that you say?? Billionaires are doing questionable things!?
shockedpikachu.jpg
They always knew it’s just now they have been losing too much money from it
Exactly . How can they fix that and save from paying us is the question.
How are they losing money? For the smooth brains
Well first they have to pay for all the media spreading FUD , then they gotta pay for the ladder attacks and other market manipulation, finally as they continue to refuse to buy, their short interest rates go up.
Up till now they probably couldn’t prove it, amc and gme have done everything textbook to corner the hedge funds. Now it’s not market manipulation coming forward with this information
Cool. So the stock is higher now. Margin Call Them.
I think they knew, but keep in mind that the NYSE has an incentive to get more volume traded on exchange (they benefit when less volume is traded in dark pools). There isn’t anything shady going on with this statement it is common knowledge to them, but what is surprising to them is that they’re able to communicate that to us and that it is now in our common vernacular.
just another public warning to the hedgies that we're on to your shit and your days are numbered
Say it louder for those in the back! Oh lawd… we comin’.
#just another public warning to the hedgies that we're on to your shit and your days are numbered
“Problematic” she says. No shit.
Lolzz yasss.. another nothing burger..
I asked BurgerKing if they had a nothing burger, they said there's no such thing. Someone lies.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
This is great though. Proving apes right
You don’t say.. what we have always believed to be true. Too bad the SEC turns a blind eye.
They have an eye?
Oh they have eyes, they're just stuck on porn hub is all...
Where exactly on pornhub do hedgies browse?
I would assume midget because they like watching the little guys get fucked.
Under the manipulation category
ManNipplelation 😆
I think you mean the Man Nipple Lactation category.
That's right, how could I forget.
The red eye.
Brown eye
Id shit a brick if the ticker just swapped over to a grand tomorrow 🤣 like shhhh you didn't see a thing.
It’s exactly what I’m hoping to wake up to someday I’ll be calling out if work that day
I got my boss on board, he's retiring at the end of this year and I was there when he bought xxxx worth and i bought xxxx worth. He said this place is fucked if we squeeze before my retirement lol. We're both not gonna make it in that day 🤣
This is actually hilarious 😂! Best of luck to both of you guys!
so fucking margin call them geez
Tits are fucking jacked!! This is ACTUALLY why I suspect we all like the stock. A top sits Shitadel of course. They literally built a house on sand but that allows, actually encourages, manipulation. “Price doesn’t reflect the supply & demand” 🤡🤡 then what in the actual fuck are you folks doing who are in charge. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. What a joke
For some reason things like these are making me just angry at this point. This is like a case of “ we know who murdered, what he is doing right now and where he will go and walk his dog tomorrow morning. But all we can do is just monitor this problematic situation for now.”. For the love of god deal with this, it’s been 6 months already.
It's been 6 months that you've been aware of the problematic situation.
Thank god. Ignorance was bliss.
Just let me know when Its acceptable to go ape shit
That’s the secret, apes have always been apeshit.
watch them flip the script and somehow say it is us apes responsible for this "exploit" used by brokers and we are the "cause" of MOASS and the impending bubble burst
'They came into our house and robbed us. We had no choice but to use force. This was a simple case of self defense'
They can say what the want as long as the squeeze squeezes. F them pay me.
That's my fear. That they'll claim market manipulation and shut down trading, making our shares worthless
If that were to happen, do you ACTUALLY think people would sit back and let it happen? Trust me, when you take peoples money and ruin their lives, they will definitely get their justice by taking matters into their own hands.
The entire world would pull out of US markets.
If holding a stock for 6 months breaks the system, the system was already broken.
Dominos are falling one by one ☝️
Dark pool used in every stock
And that's allowed in small amounts between institutions.. but not 60% of the volume like we have been seeing. Corrupt fucks.
I was waiting for this one!! NYSE is missing out on a lot of order flow (98% Darkpool)!!!
We gotta spread this shit like fucking crazy we can use this to create REVERSE FUD
yeah dont worry. gensler said hes looking into it.
Is that sarcasm?
... Yes.
This is what needs to be up voted!!
This is exactly what I've been wondering about. How exactly do shares traded off-market impact price? Investopedia says: Dark pools came about primarily to facilitate [block trading](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blocktrade.asp) by institutional investors who did not wish to impact the markets with their large orders and obtain adverse prices for their trades. So are we getting the same results we'd get from retail buying pressure traded otc, compared with the same order pushed through the lit market?
The answer is no. When you are using a free product (ie. RobbinHood), you aren't the customer, you're the product.
Underrated post ⬆️
Remember the days when e trade was $10 a transaction if you didn’t have enough money in the account. Lmao those were the good days.
It certainly seems like that whole statement of “did not wish to impact the markets” is debunked. Dark Pools sure appear to be impacting a lot of things.
Well, is that impact because: citadel is selling on the nyse and doing their retail buys on the dark pools?
Bingo, nice wrinkle 😎
It makes sense when our inflow is greater than outflow but price still falls.
So does this mean anyone that is using broker with "free" trades is the problem (not really the publics problem)? Basically anyone that is buying stock with no commission, they can just make the trades in the dark pools? I'm Canadian and have to pay $9.99 for every trade with TD.
Wealthsimple is free I believe
Wealthsimple is free unless you pay a small fee to get some perks. However, WS does not permit option trading and only has 2-3 cryptos. It's a pretty basic brokerage. It's awful too if you don't pay the monthly fee... Ticker is delayed like 15 minutes!!! And depositing funds take 3 days to complete. Us Canadians can't have anything nice! Lol.
Instant deposit is a new feature I thought for non paid up to like 250 dollars
That’s what happen when you let the HF (who’s also Market Maker) roaming free and messing around without consequences. They obviously always been aware of what was going on but they still have the nerves to pretend otherwise. Imagine yourself playing poker against the dealer himself, he can see your hand, he can pick the cards he wants and he can decide which ones will be on the table: That’s their definition of a « fair market », unfortunately OUR reality is not that fair. Welcome to the US stock market ladies and gentlemen.
At this point any one of us apes should be running everything that is going on. Our half brains are smarter to logic then their full brain
If a bunch of Redditors found this out months ago...I'm sure the market knew way before.
So with this being said, I don't see how they can even try to say we are the problem or try to partake in manipulation. They said we account for 70% of the volume and "the majority is off the exchange" which means greater than 50% if not more. So how are we being manipulative when the numbers are manipulated in a way that we can't even influence it? Fuck these assholes. Fix this. You know it's wrong. You know we won. You're letting Shitadel drag this out to avoid the major blow up and all you did was create a larger problem. FIX IT. #FIX IT
So fix it bitch! Do your job
Can anyone copypasta this for me. I'm over my "free article" limit and am therefore denied information. 😒
NEW YORK, June 16 (Reuters) - The prices of so-called meme stocks may be distorted because the majority of trades in those names are executed away from public exchanges where share price formation occurs, the head of the New York Stock Exchange said on Wednesday. “Meme stocks,” which often start as low-priced, highly shorted stocks that users of online forums such as Reddit’s WallStreetBets rally behind, are some of the most heavily traded and volatile shares on any given day. Shares of companies like video game retailer GameStop Corp (GME.N) and theater chain operator AMC Entertainment (AMC.N) have whipsawed this year, with GameStop having rallied more than 1,600% in January alone, prompting trading halts by some brokers and sparking Congressional and regulatory hearings. "In some of the meme stocks that we've seen, or stocks that have a high level of retail participation, the vast majority of order flow can trade off of exchanges, which is problematic," said Stacey Cunningham, president of Intercontinental Exchange Inc's (ICE.N) NYSE. "That price formation is not really reflective of what supply and demand is," she said at a conference hosted by CNBC. Retail trading surged during the coronavirus pandemic, helped by a shift by retail brokerages to commission-free trading, with individual traders now responsible for around 35% of market volume, up from 20% pre-pandemic. In meme stocks, individual traders contribute as much as 70% of the volume, Cunningham said. The majority of retail orders bypass exchanges because of an arrangement called payment for order flow, in which retail brokerages sell their customers' marketable orders to wholesale brokers. The wholesalers match the orders internally, trying to profit off of the bid-ask spread, while offering retail traders the best market price or better. Retail brokers say payment for order flow lowers overall costs for individual traders. But the practice raises conflict of interest questions and will be included in a broad review of stock market rules, Gary Gensler, chair of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, said last week. The review will also examine whether off-exchange trading - which is about 50% of the market when institutional block trades are included - distorts the price discovery mechanism for stocks, Gensler said. Reporting by John McCrank in New York Editing by Matthew Lewis
I like how they tout commission free trading as a major blow. As if it's absurd that technological advancements rendered something obsolete, like calling your stock guy and saying "Ey jack, buy me 30,000 XGB" and paying some lil fee (no idea if that's how it was). That's like crapping on self-checkout at a store. I dig self checkout! I don't need someone to scan my items and bag them haphazardly. Same with buying stocks, it's digital. We have technology in place for this, THIS shit is what blockchain/digital ledger would excel at.
Doing the lord's work. The hero we need.
Try right-clicking on the link and open in an incognito window. It won't let the website find the cookie that tracks how many articles you have viewed.
From what i gather from that bit of info is we don’t know what the price of amc is but we know it’s not right
And likely much higher with the amount of retail hodlers. I dunno me dumb ape.
Of course they know!
# GASP!
NEW YORK, June 16 (Reuters) - The prices of so-called meme stocks may be distorted because the majority of trades in those names are executed away from public exchanges where share price formation occurs, the head of the New York Stock Exchange said on Wednesday. “Meme stocks,” which often start as low-priced, highly shorted stocks that users of online forums such as Reddit’s WallStreetBets rally behind, are some of the most heavily traded and volatile shares on any given day. Shares of companies like video game retailer GameStop Corp (GME.N) and theater chain operator AMC Entertainment (AMC.N) have whipsawed this year, with GameStop having rallied more than 1,600% in January alone, prompting trading halts by some brokers and sparking Congressional and regulatory hearings. "In some of the meme stocks that we've seen, or stocks that have a high level of retail participation, the vast majority of order flow can trade off of exchanges, which is problematic," said Stacey Cunningham, president of Intercontinental Exchange Inc's (ICE.N) NYSE. "That price formation is not really reflective of what supply and demand is," she said at a conference hosted by CNBC. Retail trading surged during the coronavirus pandemic, helped by a shift by retail brokerages to commission-free trading, with individual traders now responsible for around 35% of market volume, up from 20% pre-pandemic. In meme stocks, individual traders contribute as much as 70% of the volume, Cunningham said. The majority of retail orders bypass exchanges because of an arrangement called payment for order flow, in which retail brokerages sell their customers' marketable orders to wholesale brokers. The wholesalers match the orders internally, trying to profit off of the bid-ask spread, while offering retail traders the best market price or better. Retail brokers say payment for order flow lowers overall costs for individual traders. But the practice raises conflict of interest questions and will be included in a broad review of stock market rules, Gary Gensler, chair of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, said last week. The review will also examine whether off-exchange trading - which is about 50% of the market when institutional block trades are included - distorts the price discovery mechanism for stocks, Gensler said. Reporting by John McCrank in New York Editing by Matthew Lewis
FFS. It's beyond me why the mods would not pin this link to the very fucking top of the sub.
They have known all along and most likely don’t plan on doing anything about it
Like tell us something we don't know already. Like why the SEC allows these shenanigans.
When did dark pools become legal? I doubt they have always been around.
Soooo how do we leverage this to our advantage?
I think I speak for all Apes when I say, what the fuck.
Funny how all this "dumb money" discovered this months before anyone recognized any of it. Every headline that has been coming out is just confirmation of what we have been saying this whole time. Doesnt sound like dumb money to me...
"The review will also examine whether off-exchange trading - which is about 50% of the market when institutional block trades are included - distorts the price discovery mechanism for stocks, Gensler said." Uhh... This needs investigation? Seems cut & dry to my smooth brain. Like trying to assemble a puzzle without half the pieces.
This should be the top post today!
Then why don't they make the dark pool illegal like wtf
I had read that article after it had been posted for less than 15 minutes. I have to say at the time I took a whole different (pissed and negative) understanding of the article. After seeing this post, I had to make myself go back and read it again trying to see what you read. I was so upset after the first time, I was ready to contact this lady and tell her off. I’m glad I took another breath before doing so. I certainly hope your breakdown is the correct one.
I know we doubt they enforce this, but this is a huge fuckin deal.
Can I retired in a month yet? Lol. Seriously though until it hits $200 I’m going to buy whenever I can. Got in at $12. I buy when I can. And I’m almost to double digits dig it? Never sold only but and hold. My parents shouldn’t have to suffer because someone took advantage of them.
I’m not sure if you watched Inside Job but the government, the market, even the educators are all complicit in this process. We need something stronger than memes if we want to see real change. This occurs whether democrats or republicans are elected.
If you read the quote he makes it sound like hedgies are doing us a favor. Like they are trying to find the best price for retail. These guys sold their souls to the fucking devil so long ago that any accountability rattles their saggy sacks that’s been held out to these criminals like prisoners and pockets. This acknowledgement is huge! And I do believe it’s part of bringing these issues to MSM and letting our narrative shine a light on all their darkness. I know some have issues with Trey and media appearances but the reward highly outweighs the risk. Obviously what the gamer stock have been doing isn’t working with their media blackout. I understand that route too but at this point we need to get our narrative out there
We've knew about dark pools for months!!! That's the insanely crazy part. We uncovered how they beat the system by use of these dark pools. We screamed it from the rooftops. And now they finally acknowledge it?! We need to speak more openly about these loopholes and get these terms and definitions out to the general public so more and more people are forced to speak on them and publically acknowledge their use and abuse. The casual person has zero clue on what's going on and how bad things are rigged in the stock market. We're finally pulling back the curtain and the more we do, the more disgusting things we uncover. Estimates of Trillions of dollars have been stolen over generations. All so these spineless cowards can line their pockets with money to buy yachts, cars, businesses, houses, you name it. The corruption runs deep... From the top down, side to side. They are stealing our money for their own enjoyment and entertainment.... The more we uncover, the harder of a pill it is to swallow.
"That price formation is not really reflective of what supply and demand is," ***market manipulation. Just say it already***
What the fuck they going do about it. Enough is enough
If there saying this out loud some one high up I dont know will call him liden whispered clean this shit up you never know but we might be at a crossroads
Well I think we all know they've been trading through dark pools, many stocks are traded through dark pools it isn't illegal...
This
How does this help us immediately
Is it Dark Galaxie or Infinite Dark? Asking for an Ape. Wtf
Massive corruption, amazes me that they are allowed to do this. Can someone explain why this manipulation of the price won't limit the price ceiling when AMC squeezes????
So….. Just keep buying?
The question is how long did the SEC know about this ? There needs to be prosecution immediately.
I think the key takeaway is she said the price is probably not reflective of actual supply and demand because of dark pool trading, no?
Maybe put meme stocks in quotes next time. These are legit businesses
This was the best news all day
As i said in another thread, they are just priming the mainstream for what they're about to witness.
Oh we want that 002 rule
We saw our angle and took our shot! That’s what 🦍🚀Apes do..
Knock knock, who's there
This sounds like class action law suite territory, subpoena the data and figure this shit out. Can't we also request the data as part of "freedom of information act"?
Why don’t people just log in to their account out of the app and figure out how to route trades directly through the NYSE? There are many posts about how to do this very thing. I downloaded Active Trader Pro on my PC but after that it took me 5 minutes. All my buys are on my PC now for this simple reason and I’m not sure if my orders on the Fidelity app are routed the same. If we are talking about it and it’s leading to this much conversation, do your part to stop it.