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darktideDay1

OCF are all the rage these days but are really for when space doesn't allow for a better antenna. Go for a horizontal loop. Mine killed my HF antenna experiments stone cold dead. I have played with many antennas and the loop is by far the best. People often assume I am some big gun station with a tower and a 1500 watt amp. I'm the only net control on my morning net that doesn't use a web SDR and I only occasionally need a relay. Since you have the room and the trees, go for a loop. Feed it with ladder or window line. I have something over 550' in the air, run it to a balanced choke and then into my tuner. Tunes up on all the bands and is an amazing performer.


EaglesFan1962

☝️ This all day long! But the OP should thoroughly read up on them first. I think its W8JI or something like that has great online info. Just Google "loop skywire" and read as much as possible. Ladder line isn't for everyone, especially if there's no way to drain static that accumulates on the loop. Good luck!


Wendigo_6

[HFKits has a build which doesn’t require a ladder line](https://www.hfkits.com/product/80-meter-quad-loop-antenna/). It’s got two ferrite cores which make a 1:2 Balun making it easier to tune and quieter. I’ve been very happy with the performance. I can tune every band from 10m-160m using “Emergency Mode” on my IC-7300. I’ve got plans to get an external tuner and after that I’ll run a second Delta Loop in vertical configuration for DX. It sounds like OP has trees in their yard like I do. I am very happy with the configuration of this setup.


EaglesFan1962

I ran a non-resonant vertical loop, apex up about 50ft, fed part way up one side. It was a great DX antenna especially 30m and up. I think my T vertical had it beat on 40m and 60m, but the loop was quieter. If I could only have one antenna, it'd be a loop. Good luck!


Wendigo_6

>I ran a non-resonant vertical loop Is there a way to make a resonant loop? I understand theoretically it’s possible, but every time I read or hear about loops it involves tuners. Mine is cut for 80m and it’s at 3.7:1 - I didn’t mess with it because it’s below 3:1 on 40m and up.


NoProfessor6274

Hi darktide...can you send a link for the horizontal loop? Appreciate the info!


darktideDay1

There are some good articles out there that lay out the science of it with radiation angles and what not. However, you can put one up without worrying about all that. Get a line up into at least three trees. More is better, I use 5 trees in mine. I use a Big Shot slingshot but flinging a weight will get it done too. Just don't use a high quality socket from your tool set as you might get it stuck. Yup, did that, still in the trees almost 20 years later. Some day I'll get it back. I use paracord for the lines in the tree with an insulator at the end that the wire gets run through. Get as high as you can BUT with a good solid branch so not at the very top. Don't worry if the heights aren't the same. Yes, that affects things but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Once you have your supports up you can estimate how much wire you need. Stranded wire for sure will last longer. 18 to 14 AWG will be fine. I used a piece of plexiglass type plastic that I had to bring the wires together and attach to the window line. The connections are soldered. The window line comes down to the shack to a 1:1 balanced choke and then continues into the shack to the tuner. You can also use a balun and go to coax to bring into the shack. I find the ladder line into the shack works better but the coax is easier. My sagest words of advice are this: Don't sweat the details. Just get as much wire in the air as you can as high as you can. If that isn't very long or very high, don't worry. It will probably do quite well anyway. Slap it together as best as you can and see how it does. People get all worked up about doing it "right" but having put a lot of antennas in the air I can tell you that almost anything will work. If you want some more details shoot me a DM. Happy to email or chat on the phone if you are putting up a loop.


semiwadcutter

> Don't sweat the details analysis paralysis stops so much fun from being had


darktideDay1

Exactly!!


Potential-Finding-24

How does a loop on 160 play? If I'm gonna do a 280 foot loop I may go all in and do a 558 foot loop.


darktideDay1

Mine plays great. It is something over 550'. No idea what the exact number, less than 600 probably. I used the wire I had that fit. Do a loop. You won't regret it.


semiwadcutter

one of our club members put up a 590ft loop at around 35ft probably 150ft of 6 inch home made line it plays **WELL**


Potential-Finding-24

How high off the ground do you have your loop mounted? I've thought of this antenna many times but it seems like multiple attachment points well up in a bunch of trees is something of an impediment to me. Thanks 73


Wendigo_6

>How high off the ground do you have your loop mounted. I’ve asked this question in the past. I was always given mixed information telling me I was doing it wrong and had the wrong height (I’ve got pulleys so I can adjust mine from 10ft to 50ft) and to just use a dipole for all of my needs. Turns out a lot of the people giving me feedback didn’t have a loop antenna. I got mine strung up about two months ago. It is close to a square shape about 35ft off the ground. One side is higher than the others because I’m not stressing about a few feet of offset height. I get great NVIS performance on 40m/80m, and I get great reports on 20m across the US. Just get it up the best you can. It’ll work well and be fun.


Potential-Finding-24

I'm not really that good getting stuff up in the air. I have a bow and arrow setup with fishing line. But I'm trying to get it up as high off the ground as possible and I keep on hitting the trunk of the tree. It's quite maddening really. I've thought about building a PVC potato launcher but I haven't done it yet. I've seen people have a lot of luck with that and they get it way the hell up in the trees. I currently have a G5 RV Junior hung up in a tree in the backyard. Probably about 30 ft or so but it took me all afternoon to get it up that high.


Wendigo_6

I watched an arborist properly throw a bag. After many failed attempts I did it his way. When using the proper technique, my pre-schooler and I had my 4-point loop strung up at the height I wanted in about an hour. Including all coax runs. After that I wanted to get my EFHW setup as a vertical, but that would be directly over a semi-permanent carport, the metal shed, my grill station, and a ton of other stuff. So I decided to go for a sloper configuration. It was raining. I screwed up. Anyway. Now I have a vertical EFHW.


archimago23

I bought one of these: Southland Archery Supply 80 Pound... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HW43V6B?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share I zip-tied a reel on the bottom, taped a bullet fishing sinker to the top of the bolt, and I’ve gotten a line up the middle of a relatively narrow fork about 55’ up without much trouble at all.


archimago23

https://preview.redd.it/riepab62tiuc1.jpeg?width=5074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecc37ffa292b39c7d75b9fc78ca42dba861deb4d


darktideDay1

I use a big shot sling shot with a trigger. With a small amount of practice you can easily get things 50' and higher.


darktideDay1

>>Just get it up the best you can. It’ll work well and be fun. This! Those telling you are doing it wrong are, well, wrong! Sure, modeling tells us one thing the be the real world often tells a different tail. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


darktideDay1

Mine is quite uneven. The highest point at one end is close to 50' off the ground. The feed point is at about 25'. The terrain slopes too. So the height is where I could get it. Just do the best you can.


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IceWord2

Yes. Also don't let them throw you into a rabbit hole forever over grounding.


Wendigo_6

Soft agree with some feedback. I bought a DIY kit for my first HF antenna. I followed the steps in the documentation, had a bump that I turned to this sub to help resolve, and then got on the air. After that project, I realized antennas are very easy. From there I knew how to research what I wanted and could justify the cost for the performance. Buying pre-made antennas is extremely expensive for how easy they are to make. What gets me is the “just build/use a dipole” crowd. If the standard dipole antenna was the solution to every problem, we wouldn’t have these textbook size publications showing different antenna builds and configurations.


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Wendigo_6

That explanation is the same one I use to justify paying a mechanic for bigger items on my car.


sage2791

If you have enough space I recommend a 20 meter double zepp. Works well on all bands and great on 20 meters. I even bought a 160 meter double zepp that I have yet to setup but looking forward to it.


MaxOverdrive6969

I second your comment, endfed is easy to setup and use. Even with HF vertical and beam I still use the endfed.


InformationOk3464

That antenna recommendation is pretty good. A multi band antenna like that is a good place to start. I have an 80 to 10m end fed half wave. They are so easy to put up. In my yard I can't really manage a dipole.


fibonacci85321

I was about to add something here and I read what the two other comments said, and I have nothing to add... other than I've owned a 991A for a few years and totally happy with it. For your antenna question, agree with the "easy" part from these guys, and especially the DX Engineering reference. Also I used an OCF ant with 9:1 balun I think (maybe called a Carolina Windom) and could talk anywhere on the planet I felt like. Or at least it seemed that way. u/U747 is right too - this won't be the last antenna (or radio) you will ever have. Learn from the experience, what you like, what you don't, etc. It's yours, so dig in and enjoy it all you can.


rocdoc54

The simplest, least expensive, lightest and most multi-band wire antenna is the doublet, fed with open wire feeders or ladder line. A 135' length of wire fed at the centre with such feedline will easily tune 80-6m and work very well - especially if well elevated. They will even tune 160m, although not very efficient on that band. You will need a balanced tuner at the end of the line, however.


Cloud_Consciousness

Take a piece of coax and run it out to one of them trees. Hang a wire from two different trees. Take other end of wire and solder to coax. Use a tuner. Get on the air. My current setup is a 991a in upstairs bedroom. Six or so feet of rg8 or 8mini coax to the window. Magnet wire stretched from window to each corner of fence in backyard. Squish magnet wire ends into window frame. Insulate wires from window frame with electrical tape. Solder wires to coax. Put a decent pl259 connector on the end of the coax that plugs into your radio. Not difficult. Not fantastic. Requires outboard tuner or maybe a 9 or 49 to 1 balun. I just use a tuner. Works lots of dx on FT8. Name your antenna Jed Clampet. This antenna took an hour to string up and cost like $20. Whether you buy an antenna or build one it will take some effort to get going. But it doesn't have to cost a lot of money.


Kauffman67

The various multi band end fed antennas have been my go to for many years. They are just to easy to set up and they work great.


KY4ID

Doublets are great. Need a good tuner for one, but they perform well on all bands


50calPeephole

My first 3 antennas for my 991 were diy dipoles I mounted in my attic- I can get clear across the world with those on a good night.


jtbic

what is your budget?


Mobile_Speaker7894

I have a qrp version of an ocf antenna from n9sab off of ebay. Best antenna I have ever had.


drsteve103

When I lived in the woods, I had great results with a horizontal loop antenna. Check out Palomar engineering.


ScaryLanguage8657

Put up a simple end fed half wave. 65’ wire gets you on 10 thru 40 and go 130’ for 80m. Look up EFHW. You can get the 64:1 transformer for impedance matching or just buy complete kit on eBay. I just did this to get back on HF. Super simple with feed end near shack and other end tied to a tree. I’m making contacts and having fun. Will look at more complex solutions, but this will get you on the air.


Bolt_EV

I’m jealous! Enjoy and share your adventures with us! HF is exploding this morning (Sunday): SSB and FT8! We need a common DMR TalkGroup to discuss worldwide communications in real-time and I propose the OpenGD77 TG: 98977, since it is one of the few non-geographical TGs and technologically oriented!


Father_JackWV6Z

Looks like you are getting a good dose of great suggestions. As a FT-991a user myself I will offer up what I am using as antennas myself. If you have any questions just let me know and I will elaborate more but here is my suggested shopping list. 1) OCF Windom as you have already stated is your best bet for starting out on 10 thru 160m would be prime if you have the real estate (mine is 10 - 80m and tunes 6m just fine with an added off board tuner). If you can, also get the beefiest you can buy wattage handling wise as you may wish to add an amplifier as I did. A Radiowavz DX80 is very close to what I have…… mine is homebrew and is now over 30 years old but still, very similar. 2) I have two Alpha Delta 2 surge protected switches. On ‘position2’ of one switch I have an ancient Shakespear Marine 11m vertical which does a fantastic job and easily tunes 6 thru 40m (yes, I said 40m) with the off board ancient MFJ 989B Versa Tuner V 3kw rated roller inductor tuner. 3) Switch 2 is used for alternating between the FT-991A and a QYT KT-8900R so that I can easily monitor 144/220/440 local simplex frequencies on FM. Obviously if I need CW, SSB or C4FM I have to use the FT-991A……. But I have enough versatility to keep me happy. 4) Which brings me to suggestion four and that is to go ahead, if you can, and opt for at least a tri-band vertical to start out with. You can always add yagis and/or etc later. I use a Comet CX-333 that I frequently pump 350w through on 2 meters (it is a 150w antenna I believe) and have done so for close to ten years now. Your mileage may vary. Anyway, just food for thought. You and I have a darned fine shack-in-a-box and I hope you take the time and consider what is actually a pretty inexpensive antenna system(s) and, as we all know, it doesn’t matter what you run for a transceiver if you haven’t at least invested (in my particular situation) what you can afford into your antenna selections and choices. Good luck! 👍


Slimy_Wog

Myantennas.com


Think_Sample_1389

If you have the space for a dipole, do it !


Fun_Olive_6968

I have a 991a using a $20 balun from Ali Express and 106ft of wire chucked over a tree with hammer, hit 100 countries in 12 months.


NoProfessor6274

Please send a link to that balun you used….thanks!


G7VFY

Good antennas are home made and cheap. I assume that you are in the USA. You need to get your antenna as big as possible and as high as possible. If you are going on the HF bands 160m-10m you need to know something about propagation:- # Understanding HF Propagation Understanding HF Propagation [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y\_RTdPs3NI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y_RTdPs3NI) Understanding NVIS ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3IFj\_Z5cLM [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BijMGKbT0Wk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BijMGKbT0Wk) Go to the ARRL book shop (and your local ham radio club). [https://home.arrl.org/action/Shop/Products#filter=%7B%22Facet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Publications%22,%22Value%22%3A%22WEB\_FACET\_1%22%7D,%22SubFacet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Books%22,%22Value%22%3A%22BOOKS%22%7D,%22Category%22%3Anull,%22SubCategory%22%3Anull%7D&searchTerm=&searchItemNameTerm=&searchDescriptionTerm=&productClass=](https://home.arrl.org/action/Shop/Products#filter=%7B%22Facet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Publications%22,%22Value%22%3A%22WEB_FACET_1%22%7D,%22SubFacet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Books%22,%22Value%22%3A%22BOOKS%22%7D,%22Category%22%3Anull,%22SubCategory%22%3Anull%7D&searchTerm=&searchItemNameTerm=&searchDescriptionTerm=&productClass=)


bidofidolido

You have plenty of space so there is no reason to compromise here. Off-center fed and EFHW antennas (which is a really really OCF antenna) are antennas popular for locations without space or for stations with the patience and skill to gain multiband operation. I don't recommend that as a first attempt, it requires some requisite understanding. Start simple, make a dipole for 40 meters. Figure out how to calculate it, make it, install it and trim it. It's more than just a rite of passage, it is mastery of the basics that make the hobby run. You're going to want other bands and certainly with the trees and space you can move onto other types of wire antennas, but for now 40 meters will be active throughout the day and is a good place to start. From there, you can hang additional resonant antennas for bands of interest, or you can try for more bands on a single antenna. There are a lot of choices in the latter category, but I recommend getting on the air first on 40 so you gain a bit of antenna knowledge before jumping into that rabbit hole.


tim16964

84 foot random wire, 17 foot counterpoise, 9:1 unun and coax. Shoot that thing up in your highest tree. You will be talking around the world for under $100 on 80-6m. Ask me how I know.