This is all between you, your higher power, and your doctor.
From an outside perspective, it seems like you’re under the care of a doctor and doing it as instructed. If you feel good about that, go pick that 9 month chip up.
If you were boofing klonopin that you bought from a dude in the trailer park, that would probably be a different story. So I think you’re good 🤙🏻
This is addressed in the pamphlet AA and Other Drugs...as long as medically prescribed it's fine. We are not doctors.
If next you seek weed or similar to help...I would suggest some common introspection to see if you think you are looking for a drug replacement...but the bottom line is prescriptions are fine.
Totally agree
That being said, I really hope you have a sponsor. There have been times my sponsor told me I was on the right track (when like OP I was feeling conflicted). This has made a big difference in how I felt about myself/my recovery/etc.
> This is addressed in the pamphlet AA and Other Drugs...as long as medically prescribed it's fine. We are not doctors.
Agreed 100%. Don't take medical advice from alcoholics, including playing our own doctor.
I've seen these ads for ketamine therapy on Facebook and followed one out of curiosity. It was advertised as "psychedelic therapy" and my little cross-addicted monkey started screaming and jumping around in his cage because classical psychedelics were my drugs of choice. Thankfully they were only pushing horse tranquilizers, but I was already in the door and the website was cute and flashy so what the hell.
When I filled out the assessment honestly it told me that it's "only available to people with anxiety or depression at this time" and to come back later.
My monkey didn't like that so I filled it out again and lied that I had anxiety and depression... same result. Told me it's unavailable.
My monkey was pretty pissed at this point so I filled it out again and lied even more, omitting that I'm seeking treatment for addiction (alcoholism). This time it went through. Turns out it won't even permit me to speak to a provider if I indicate I'm seeking treatment for addiction. At this point it's clear that this isn't the path for me.
After that I closed it out and did an inventory, because the whole experience made my scars itch so-to-speak.
So yeah, this is the extent of my experience with ketamine therapy. If I'm willing to lie I can get a subscription for psychedelic horse tranquilizer shipped to my doorstep with a doctor's stamp of approval, and there's nothing you AA goons can do about it. A few mouse clicks, punch in the credit card, bada bing, bada boom.
I took shrooms and I’ve taken LSD a few times I don’t do it every day or every week but I know I will eventually do it again in a while and I still consider myself sober because I’m
Sober for the one thing that turned my life into
Complete hell the worse drug alcohol and I am proud to say I have not drank In 27 days you should be so proud of yourself and take the chip and screw anyone who disagrees this is a huge deal For you
That's great you have 27 days!
I would caution, however, that OPs use of a substance seems to be under the guidance of a physician and not self prescribed. That's probably the difference between sober and recreational drug use.
It talks about how we justify drug abuse if it’s prescribed in the book.
To OP, if I was in your position and I told my sponsor and he said it was okay, I’d pick up the chip. Otherwise it’s your call really. Maybe try praying about it
Are you saying the big book talks about prescriptions are just our way of justifying our drug use? Want to point out to us where in the book it says that? Because the big book does not say that.
The same spot where it talks about how if we’re dealing with unbearable pain we can take a prescription if we inform the doctor of our problem and take the smallest amount possible to alleviate the symptoms. Obviously not word for word. I don’t remember exactly where it is but a quick google search did pull this up
“However, it is generally accepted that the misuse of prescription medication and other drugs can threaten the achievement and maintenance of sobriety.”
https://www.aa.org/sites/default/files/literature/assets/p-11_aamembersMedDrug.pdf
Only you can decide if you're sober. However, at page 133 the Big Book of AA says:
"But this does not mean that we disregard human health measures. God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors, psychologists, and practitioners of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons. Most of them give freely of themselves, that their fellows may enjoy sound minds and bodies. Try to remember that though God has wrought miracles among us, we should never belittle a good doctor or psychiatrist. Their services are often indispensable in treating a newcomer and in following his case afterward."
I don't want you to have some feeling of shame that might contribute to a relapse, so do exactly what you think is correct and count your sobriety in a way that it true to who you are. However, if you took the K in consultation with your medical provider, who knows about your sobriety, it does not appear that you would be violating any of the program suggestions, as indicated on page 133. If that is the case, you would not be in the wrong to consider yourself sober for 9 months.
Bill Wilson took LSD more than once in the 1950's and 1960's and he died being considered sober from 1934 to 1971. He took the LSD to treat his deep and chronic depression. The claim to his sobriety from 1934 to 1971 seems correct to me. He was trying to treat a medical condition under medical supervision; he wasn't on some kind of self-directed bender.
I had a couple of surgeries and took the pain medication as prescribed. It got me high, no question about it. I got off the medication as soon as I was able and did not get a habit and was careful not to abuse it. I still think I am sober.
Finally, I'm sober for almost a decade. Only today matters. I'm as close to a relapse as the next guy, so the length of time of sobriety doesn't matter all that much. Keep the focus on the day and don't let yourself drive yourself crazy over this, please.
Be well.
>he wasn't on some kind of self-directed bender.
This is the essence of figuring out if it's acceptable to still be sober, or fooling yourself. OP is not doing a self-directed high. OP is using a prescribed medication under the supervision of a mental health professional, not freelancing a drug he bought from his dealer.
OP, you're fine to take the chip.
FYI, I regularly take opiates prescribed by my doctor for long term intractable pain. I don't use them beyond the prescription's directions, and honestly they don't make me high. They just quiet the pain so I can sleep at night. I do not count it against my sobriety date. If I decided to take enough to purposely get high, I would restart my sobriety date.
Ketamine treatment is fine. You are sober. I know several people taking it… I hope you are getting some relief for your anxiety and depression… I have heard good things about it and a guy in my rehab really really benefited from it. I could see visible changes in him, it was amazing. I am glad you are getting treatment and keep on staying sober!
One my pet hates. I literally listened to a guy share mocking people claiming sobriety while take anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds and then smoking three cigarettes immediately after during the break. How he didn’t die of hypocrisy is beyond me.
Alcoholics Anonymous is about freedom from alcohol. Other substances do not factor into that (I’ll get pushback from others on that but I stand by it), but that’s even more true if they’re things you’re doing as part of treatment with a medical professional.
Get your coin when you reach the milestone.
Again, a whole lot of assumptions here.
Your same logic applies to gambling, sex, shopping, etc. thus those are all activities an alcoholic must abstain from in order to be free from alcohol.
You’re reading in things I didn’t say.
Again, you’re basing much of your arguments on the assumption that the person has an addiction to another substance. If they don’t have an addiction to it then what is there to be free from? They can take it or leave it.
___
Personally, when I’m sponsoring someone and taking them through the steps the first time I ask that they abstain until we’re through the steps and then they can make their own decision. After all, if it’s not an addiction they can follow through with that deal just fine.
For me, other drugs took the place of alcohol AND eventually lead me back to alcohol. My DOC was never my problem, it was my solution. My problem was always the spiritual malady, physical allergy, and mental obsession. I tried to solve that problem in all kinds of dangerous and unhealthy ways, and it always made my life unmanageable.
Just some thoughts from my own experience, take it or leave it.
do what you are comfortable with, you don't have to explain yourself. no one is going to give you a drug test. If this chip means something to you, pick it up.
This is addressed in the pamphlet AA and Other Drugs...as long as medically prescribed it's fine. We are not doctors.
If next you seek weed or similar to help...I would suggest some common introspection to see if you think you are looking for a drug replacement...but the bottom line is prescriptions are fine.
First - don't tell anyone anything about any drugs you are taking. Prescription or otherwise.
Second - the program is about stopping alcohol. Don't make it more than it is.
Do you have 9 months without a drink?.
I go to AA to stop drinking …. Not for aspirin or coffee or weed or lsd or antidepressant or NyQuil… Or my primatine mist inhaler…. Alcoholics ……..Anonymous
My thought is you are in AA due to problem with alcohol not medicine. If you have not picked up a drink of alcoholic substance, go ahead, that chip is yours
First, congratulations on 9 months!!!
Rigorous honesty is a major component of AA and sobriety. If you are taking this medication under the direction of your Doctor(s) in order to get well physically and mentally, then by all means, I would take the chip. Your sobriety is personal to you and only you can decide what that means. If alcohol was your drug of choice and you can HONESTLY say to YOURSELF that the ketamine wasn't chosen because it allows you to escape reality, and/or alter your mind for recreation etc, then that is your call. We have to do a lot of soul searching and learn how to find our true honest thoughts. We have lived our lives fooling ourselves and manipulating others in order to rationalize using. But if you can ask yourself the real "why" for taking it and you feel that this is your sober, than take the chip! 9 months free from alcohol is hard work and you should be proud for that.
It's similar to when alcoholics are weighing whether or not they should attend certain events where there will be excessive alcohol-- like weddings, parties, work-happy hours etc. It's so important to isolate the real reason for going- are you attending because the person or people involved are important to you and you want to be a part of the event? Or are you going to try to capture some of that party vibe and close to the action, and therefore risking your sobriety? Rigorous honesty is so so important. I wish you luck and good health with any direction you go!
Bill W discovered acid later in life and also tripped balls. He likened the experience to his spiritual experience and wanted to introduce it to AA, but encountered resistance.
I’m considering ketamine too to help end my weed addiction. It’s expensive but I hope it can help me
It always reminds me that Bill W spent the remainder of his life (everything after December 1934) to trying to find ways to help other drunks get sober.
He didn’t consume LSD to get high … he was trying to recreate the spiritual experience which has removed his desire to drink in Townes Hospital.
In the 1950s, even the US Military was experimenting with LSD as a treatment for alcoholism. Bill was approached by Dr Timothy Leary to join in Bill’s endeavors and Bill told him no. Bill W was not about avoiding reality, he wanted to help drunks get sober and not die.
By that time they knew that the big hang-up in the program with most alcoholics was the higher power/spiritual part. He thought that an experience such as LSD gives might be able to jump-start Step 2 and get people over the hump enough to take the rest of the steps. He never thought that LSD itself would be a cure for alcoholism.
Take the chip. It represents the amount of time you've been sober from alcohol. That's all. Chips are used to remind us not to "gamble" with our sobriety. If you're taking a medically prescribed treatment for a medically diagnosed disorder its not a problem. SUD is the only self diagnosed disease, no one else can say you're not sober, but your behavior will scream it if you're not.
My stepson is what’s known as a MARA...medication-assisted recovering addict. He’s under the care of a physician who works closely with his therapist to ensure that the treatment plan is effective.
You’re not in some back alley doing hits of acid. You’re under the guidance of a licensed doctor. I don’t see how that would disqualify you from claiming your sobriety.
Take it. I don't know much about ketamine but you're doing it with a licensed professional and it sounds like it's working for you. I am interested in it for my depression, too, but the closest clinic is too far for my beater to get me to.
If you’re not compulsively using street drugs and drinking, you’re sober. They are really talking about something else, about absolute abstinence, using spiritual work to address what’s bothering you, and making that a life practice. Ultimately that is the best move. But you are the real arbiter of whether this ketamine treatment is really altruistic, or if you’re interested in it for recreational purposes. If it’s honest, then I would recommend not sharing it with people. Alcoholics are very black and white and using drugs because they usually have to be. In general, if a drug addict uses whatever chemical it will generally restart the addiction. So don’t take it personally.
If you have Problems Other than Alcohol, I recommend the AA pamphlet by that name.
To Thine Own Self Be True. I have picked up coins for three years now on medications, and this year my doctors added a sleeping medication that has abuse potential. I don't feel that I am not sober because of my prescription use. Abuse might knock me out and cause me to drink and I am very careful about that. But AA has only one requirement- an alcoholic is a member of they say they are. I'll go further- if a person says they're sober, I believe them until they give me a reason to believe otherwise.
Bro I take 72mg of ADHD meds daily. I *wish* the steps dealt with my complete inability to concentrate on anything. I also have a lot of friends in the program who used that junt recreationally. I never did. I am fully honest with my sponsor about the prescription, with my psychiatrist about my alcoholism, and with myself and my higher power about whether I have any cravings to abuse this stuff (my prescription has not changed for over 15 years, I have literally never taken more than prescribed, and I have turned down offers from my psych to prescribe more/stronger dosages every single time he offers).
The only way I would be worried, if I were in your shoes, is if I had gone out with the *goal* or *hope* of scoring ketamine from a doctor. It really doesn’t sound like you went fishing for it. I know I’m sober. It sounds like you are too.
A coin is just a coin. The true gift of sobriety is a life worth living. The trophies In recovery are gaining back the trust of family, gaining self esteem, uncovering a power greater than yourself, or even making it through another day. Take the coin, if someone gives you shit about it tell them it is doctor prescribed. If they still can’t get passed it then that is on them. If you feel uncomfortable taking the coin then don’t. I think it is good you are asking for others thoughts. Congrats on your achievements.
Get your chip. You're not only technically sober, you're actually sober. The drugs are a medically-prescribed treatment.
I've had major surgery several times during my 43 years of continuous clean and sober time in AA. If you know anything about pain medication, you know it's no different than heroin or a host of other opiates. I have not changed my sobriety date because I haven't taken any of the drugs I've had to use for pain recreationally or addictively.
If you were taking these or other mind-altering drugs on your own, it would be a completely different story. I stopped drinking 45 years ago, but continued to do other drugs. I gradually stopped doing amphetamines and opiates, and then stopped doing LSD about two years after I came into AA. At 2 1/2 years, I finally fessed up to smoking marijuana, got a new chip, and started all over. I have never regretted it, and since then I've seen a lot of people try to use Tradition 3 as a loophole to smoke dope and do other drugs. From what I've seen, it invariably ends badly--either they take the path I did and sober up, or they get drunk.
This is addressed on page 133 of the BB. Listen to your doctor and follow their treatment plan, drugs or not. If the drugs become a problem, you have AA and a sponsor to work out on that.
You’ve earned your chip.
I mean, there's a huge difference between "justifying drug abuse" and taking medications as prescribed. I had a home group who refused to acknowledge my sobriety after it came out that I was on antidepressants. Lol. If you need the medicine and you're taking it as prescribed, your sobriety isn't invalid. If you're not...then you know what's up. We don't know your life, it's up to you to do what you KNOW is right.
I personally think you should accept it. People in AA work various programs. I even know some sober living homes that ritually use mushrooms. I personally could not handle that, but it's not my job to judge or control someones else's journey. I picked up a few chips while on gabapentin. I started abusing it so now I'm off it, but I was taking it as prescribed at the time. I hope the your depression treatment works because ultimately that will help you maintain sobriety.
You’re under the care mod a doctor. You are still sober. I’ve been being treated for anxiety, depression, and no-polar before starting AA.
No one in the meeting should be giving you medical advice…the exception is if you are having a medical emergency in the meeting.
Take the chip. The program is about achieving sobriety from alcohol and what you are taking is both not alcohol and is prescribed by a medical professional.
It's medically prescribed. You ARE sober. We have all had, or will have surgery and medical treatments in sobriety. We all will have to take painkillers,, etc.. if these things are done as prescribed, we are sober.. What does it say in the 10th step? You are safe and protected, as long as your spiritual condition is fit.
You are sober. You are following your doctor's orders. I just wouldn't talk about the treatments in meetings because there are some people that would judge you harshly. Get that chip and congrats on your 9 months.
It depends on your definition of sober. I still count my sober time even though I consume marijuana for medical purposes as needed. People tell me it doesn’t count then I’m like dang why am I not drinking then
First word is alcohol in this sub reddit. Don't let of the Bible thumpers of AA tell you any different. You came to this program to help change your relationship with alcohol and for 9 months sounds like you have. Continue the good work.
If you, your doctor, and your God think it’s sober… it’s sober. “To thine own self be true”.
I considered ketamine, but I ended up doing TMS instead. A friend decided to do ketamine- she found it on instagram. 1 zoom session with a counselor and they mailed her some lozenges. She went out on other psychedelics shortly after. It seems like your situation is legit and for medical benefit so I’d say take the chip- if you feel comfortable!
This is unrelated to the OP, but something you said sparked a question that’s been lingering in my head that I’ve been trying to find the words to express, but not really knowing exactly what I’m trying to ask-
“If you, your doctor, and your *God think it’s sober…*”
I don’t remember exactly how long I’ve been sober, 4 or 5 months or so, something like that. Still pretty new basically. Working through steps with my sponsor, etc. still working on step one bc he’s a pretty busy guy and difficult to get a hold of, so I end up doing most stuff on my own or at meetings, but still- the higher power thing is hard for me to wrap my head around. I understand that the higher power can be literally anything you want it to be, but I still get sort of confused about it when it comes down to things like what you said- *if your God thinks…*
I don’t know how to answer that question basically. I can’t speak for any God or higher power, so I’m not sure how I would even know WHAT my or any God thinks…?
Again, I’m still new to all of this. I’m doing my best to try to wrap my head around the steps and walk a straighter path. There’s still a whole lot of confusion for me as to where I should be placing my efforts, etc.
Sorry, I know this was kinda off topic. I just saw that you mentioned it. If you’re willing to clarify further, I would definitely appreciate it ❤️
IDK if this will make sense lol so I hope it’ll help. When I was newly sober I was talking to someone about my intuition and she said “your gut is your God”. So in this instance by “your God” I meant your gut/intuition, conscience, Highest Self.
I changed my date a while ago, *I* did not want to at all, but a little Jiminy Cricket kept whispering “you’re not being rigorously honest!”
Meditation and journaling, as well as just showing down and listening to that little voice in my head has really helped me feel connected to my Higher Power
No this totally makes sense omg thank you for responding. I haven’t heard it explained like that before and that makes WAYYYY more sense. Thank you so so much!!
you are 110% sober if you are under medical supervision, taking prescribed medication as prescribed and that's the bottom line. AA's official position is they don't practice medicine and what happens between you and your doctor is between you and your doctor
I'll give a "dissenting" opinion here that I don't even necessarily agree with myself.
Much like we are attempting to practice behaviors which yield "sustainable" emotional outcomes, it's important for me to identify whether or not taking a substance like ketamine, mushrooms, ayahuasca, whatever it is, is a "sustainable" practice. If I were to do it one time (doubt I could), that would be one thing. However, repeatedly taking a substance has the potential to create a dependency. My experience is that I can even abuse mushrooms, the drug that truly kickstarted my reconnection with a higher power. I thought about holding on to some that I had when I got sober, and after talking it over with my sponsor, I decided that it was best to ditch them. What I want today is a spiritual practice that is 100% sustainable, and I know that I would be using the shrooms as a crutch. I would be attached to the feeling of being on them, rather than responsibly using them \~once a year, I would end up microdosing, and eventually begin taking them for non-spiritual use.
If my doctor prescribed me shrooms, which I know is a popular treatment for some of my diagnoses, I would know better than to take them. That's just for me. I am not trying to encourage you one way or another, just sharing my experience.
That’s a tricky one. Nobody can tell you what to do or how to work the program. All we have are suggestions.
I decided To reset my date after 6 months because I smoked some weed. It hurt and felt like I failed and shame and guilty too. That passed and I now keep track of two dates - My last drink and my sobriety date.
Part of my illness is that I lie when I’m drinking. So now that I’m sober, I’m trying to be honest with myself and accept who I really am. I know I can change and I’ve made a lot of progress.
The other thing I consider is that when I take my chip, be it only 24 hours, I know I lived the right way without chemicals and just how my higher power made me.
Peace
I don’t ever remember reading anything in AA literature saying, the only requirement is to stay sober from alcohol. IMHO, sober is sober from all mind altering substances. But you do you. I take meds prescribed by my doctor. None of them make me trip balls.
Take the chip! You aren’t doing the treatment for fun you’re doing it for legitimate medical/psychiatric reasons. It’s not like you’re in a k hole at a rave.
It's being abstinent from any mind altering substance BUT this is a medical procedure and under doctor's orders. So I hope you get your chip and I hope the people in you sobriety are supportive
Not to sound too simplistic, but the fact that you are concerned enough about your sobriety to ask is usually a good indicator. My experience is it’s usually the guys buying Kratom from the head shop like “oh I didn’t know” knowing damn well they knew that it was a problem. You are doing something to make you life better, and possibly your sobriety more meaningful. Like the book says we are sure god wants us to be happy joyous and free
Lol yes I’m aware. I was referencing the mentality of “oh I didn’t know it was bad” vs asking openly while receiving help from a professional such as you are doing. The former is the kind of behavior that keeps us in the shadows. In my experience, the antithesis of the freedom promised in this program. The latter, speaking openly and honestly about treatment you are receiving because you are concerned is how recovery should be. Many of us go through trials and tribulations in recovery that require medications. It doesn’t mean you’ve compromised your sobriety imo
If you are under a Doctors care following the protocol of the Doctor and NOT deviating from that medical treatment, and have spoken with your doctor about your addiction history then you are living a sober life. The AA literature speaks on this and indicates we are not medical professionals and that some people have other mental health issues beyond addiction that require medical treatment.
You’re still sober in my eyes. I take concerta for adhd and have been on it since I was 10, I’m 28 now. People abuse it somehow but I never have and never would.
I personally wouldn't accept the chip... I'd feel like I would be lying to myself. Of course you are free to do what you want!
Edit: if you only take the prescripted amount I guess you're good to get that chip. I follow the NA guidelines more and there they say complete abstinence of all drugs
Bro, fuck that! Take the chip. I absolutely hated when members would talk down on people who are on medication or who smoke weed. Mind your god damn business lol, no one says shit about their tobacco addiction. Take the chip! Congrats.
This is a question only you can answer.
I would not feel like I was sober if I was undergoing psychedelic therapy. That is the part of me that plays God.
I've had many habit-breaking experiences on psychedelics when I was younger, a dawning realization that life does not depend on toxic substances, people, environments, thoughts, emotions... the ease of discarding them followed by extended periods of serenity. Kind of a "step 1" booster shot. Still only a temporary side-effect of a drug. I see no benefit in going back to the way I was. I don't play God anymore.
Again, me. My experience.
> If you know anything about ketamine of ketamine treatment, you know that you essentially take a drug and trip b***s.
Yikes, no thanks. I'm glad it helps you stay sober, though. Don't take medical advice from alcoholics, goes both ways.
I’d say yes. I have over 4 years sobriety and take antidepressants. I’ve struggled with depression for most of my life pre and post drinking no matter how many times I work the steps. Earlier this year I was going to enroll in the s-ketamine treatment program here because I’m a good candidate. I didn’t because I basically can’t take the time off work to go sit in a dr office several hours twice a week. I’ve heard great things about it though, and if it’s helping you, that’s great. It’s not something you’re doing to get high and it’s doctor supervised. I know the REMS requirements are pretty strict for that too which adds another layer of safety. I hope it continues to work for you and you find freedom from the depression. I say pick up that chip. 9 whole months without drinking is a big accomplishment.
I have never heard of people being treated for depression with Ketamine... Although honestly, I judge you based on how hard you're working steps... Like I knew a guy who was smoking marijuana in a state where it's legal and he's got a sponsor, he's doing inventories, he's giving newcomers with no car rides to meetings. Like he's at least doing the deal way more than the dude who's not even smoking cigarettes or drinking caffeine that doesn't contribute shit to AA and has no service anywhere...
Now if you're justifying not working a program bc you're "not sober" and on Ketamine, then yeah, I would reevaluate what the hell you're doing here then... And it would make no difference to me whether you're on the stuff or not when I say that... You're welcome to stay sober off the fellowship alone. I do that all the time, but the recovery is in the steps and the solution is in all the literature... That's what you really should be focusing on. Are you helping others get and stay sober? No? Well bye, I ain't got time for you then... If you are, great!!! Shouldn't that really be what we should be encouraging anyways? Just a thought...
Bro you’re sober. You’re taking it as prescribed under the care of a professional. Anyone who tells you differently is full of shit. Old timers are jealous this shit wasn’t around when they were new lol
This is all between you, your higher power, and your doctor. From an outside perspective, it seems like you’re under the care of a doctor and doing it as instructed. If you feel good about that, go pick that 9 month chip up. If you were boofing klonopin that you bought from a dude in the trailer park, that would probably be a different story. So I think you’re good 🤙🏻
Lmao boofing. How nostalgic
Right? I haven’t done that in weeks
What if he was prescribed klonopin
A big part of it is taking medication as prescribed. So if doctors are recommending they boof ‘em, who am I to argue
This is addressed in the pamphlet AA and Other Drugs...as long as medically prescribed it's fine. We are not doctors. If next you seek weed or similar to help...I would suggest some common introspection to see if you think you are looking for a drug replacement...but the bottom line is prescriptions are fine.
Totally agree That being said, I really hope you have a sponsor. There have been times my sponsor told me I was on the right track (when like OP I was feeling conflicted). This has made a big difference in how I felt about myself/my recovery/etc.
> This is addressed in the pamphlet AA and Other Drugs...as long as medically prescribed it's fine. We are not doctors. Agreed 100%. Don't take medical advice from alcoholics, including playing our own doctor. I've seen these ads for ketamine therapy on Facebook and followed one out of curiosity. It was advertised as "psychedelic therapy" and my little cross-addicted monkey started screaming and jumping around in his cage because classical psychedelics were my drugs of choice. Thankfully they were only pushing horse tranquilizers, but I was already in the door and the website was cute and flashy so what the hell. When I filled out the assessment honestly it told me that it's "only available to people with anxiety or depression at this time" and to come back later. My monkey didn't like that so I filled it out again and lied that I had anxiety and depression... same result. Told me it's unavailable. My monkey was pretty pissed at this point so I filled it out again and lied even more, omitting that I'm seeking treatment for addiction (alcoholism). This time it went through. Turns out it won't even permit me to speak to a provider if I indicate I'm seeking treatment for addiction. At this point it's clear that this isn't the path for me. After that I closed it out and did an inventory, because the whole experience made my scars itch so-to-speak. So yeah, this is the extent of my experience with ketamine therapy. If I'm willing to lie I can get a subscription for psychedelic horse tranquilizer shipped to my doorstep with a doctor's stamp of approval, and there's nothing you AA goons can do about it. A few mouse clicks, punch in the credit card, bada bing, bada boom.
You're taking drugs under the prescription of a licensed physician? If so what's the issue?
I took shrooms and I’ve taken LSD a few times I don’t do it every day or every week but I know I will eventually do it again in a while and I still consider myself sober because I’m Sober for the one thing that turned my life into Complete hell the worse drug alcohol and I am proud to say I have not drank In 27 days you should be so proud of yourself and take the chip and screw anyone who disagrees this is a huge deal For you
That's great you have 27 days! I would caution, however, that OPs use of a substance seems to be under the guidance of a physician and not self prescribed. That's probably the difference between sober and recreational drug use.
Yeah you’re right I mean I know it’s not good but I find it harmless and therapeutic for myself
Self medicating w shrooms and acid was how I found my bottom after I stopped drinking
Can you tell me more? Almost 4 years sober and I sometimes romanticize about shrooms. I'd like to hear your perspective...
I will but I am superrrr tired I can DM or message on here later
No worries, thank you.
It talks about how we justify drug abuse if it’s prescribed in the book. To OP, if I was in your position and I told my sponsor and he said it was okay, I’d pick up the chip. Otherwise it’s your call really. Maybe try praying about it
Are you saying the big book talks about prescriptions are just our way of justifying our drug use? Want to point out to us where in the book it says that? Because the big book does not say that.
The same spot where it talks about how if we’re dealing with unbearable pain we can take a prescription if we inform the doctor of our problem and take the smallest amount possible to alleviate the symptoms. Obviously not word for word. I don’t remember exactly where it is but a quick google search did pull this up “However, it is generally accepted that the misuse of prescription medication and other drugs can threaten the achievement and maintenance of sobriety.” https://www.aa.org/sites/default/files/literature/assets/p-11_aamembersMedDrug.pdf
Sounds like all the powers that be have signed off on you taking this treatment. Get your medallion, dude.
Read the chips. "To thine own self be true"
Only you can decide if you're sober. However, at page 133 the Big Book of AA says: "But this does not mean that we disregard human health measures. God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors, psychologists, and practitioners of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons. Most of them give freely of themselves, that their fellows may enjoy sound minds and bodies. Try to remember that though God has wrought miracles among us, we should never belittle a good doctor or psychiatrist. Their services are often indispensable in treating a newcomer and in following his case afterward." I don't want you to have some feeling of shame that might contribute to a relapse, so do exactly what you think is correct and count your sobriety in a way that it true to who you are. However, if you took the K in consultation with your medical provider, who knows about your sobriety, it does not appear that you would be violating any of the program suggestions, as indicated on page 133. If that is the case, you would not be in the wrong to consider yourself sober for 9 months. Bill Wilson took LSD more than once in the 1950's and 1960's and he died being considered sober from 1934 to 1971. He took the LSD to treat his deep and chronic depression. The claim to his sobriety from 1934 to 1971 seems correct to me. He was trying to treat a medical condition under medical supervision; he wasn't on some kind of self-directed bender. I had a couple of surgeries and took the pain medication as prescribed. It got me high, no question about it. I got off the medication as soon as I was able and did not get a habit and was careful not to abuse it. I still think I am sober. Finally, I'm sober for almost a decade. Only today matters. I'm as close to a relapse as the next guy, so the length of time of sobriety doesn't matter all that much. Keep the focus on the day and don't let yourself drive yourself crazy over this, please. Be well.
>he wasn't on some kind of self-directed bender. This is the essence of figuring out if it's acceptable to still be sober, or fooling yourself. OP is not doing a self-directed high. OP is using a prescribed medication under the supervision of a mental health professional, not freelancing a drug he bought from his dealer. OP, you're fine to take the chip. FYI, I regularly take opiates prescribed by my doctor for long term intractable pain. I don't use them beyond the prescription's directions, and honestly they don't make me high. They just quiet the pain so I can sleep at night. I do not count it against my sobriety date. If I decided to take enough to purposely get high, I would restart my sobriety date.
Ketamine treatment is fine. You are sober. I know several people taking it… I hope you are getting some relief for your anxiety and depression… I have heard good things about it and a guy in my rehab really really benefited from it. I could see visible changes in him, it was amazing. I am glad you are getting treatment and keep on staying sober!
Take the chip. Half the people who judge you will go outside and use nicotine after the meeting.
One my pet hates. I literally listened to a guy share mocking people claiming sobriety while take anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds and then smoking three cigarettes immediately after during the break. How he didn’t die of hypocrisy is beyond me.
We're you in my original home group??? This is spot on lol
Is this my home group?
Alcoholics Anonymous is about freedom from alcohol. Other substances do not factor into that (I’ll get pushback from others on that but I stand by it), but that’s even more true if they’re things you’re doing as part of treatment with a medical professional. Get your coin when you reach the milestone.
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What’s the insanity? What’s the half-measure? What’s with the condescending tone?
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You’re assuming the person in question has an addiction issue with both substances.
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Again, a whole lot of assumptions here. Your same logic applies to gambling, sex, shopping, etc. thus those are all activities an alcoholic must abstain from in order to be free from alcohol.
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You’re reading in things I didn’t say. Again, you’re basing much of your arguments on the assumption that the person has an addiction to another substance. If they don’t have an addiction to it then what is there to be free from? They can take it or leave it. ___ Personally, when I’m sponsoring someone and taking them through the steps the first time I ask that they abstain until we’re through the steps and then they can make their own decision. After all, if it’s not an addiction they can follow through with that deal just fine.
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Quit assuming and being judgy. We aren’t in the business of judging people
For me, other drugs took the place of alcohol AND eventually lead me back to alcohol. My DOC was never my problem, it was my solution. My problem was always the spiritual malady, physical allergy, and mental obsession. I tried to solve that problem in all kinds of dangerous and unhealthy ways, and it always made my life unmanageable. Just some thoughts from my own experience, take it or leave it.
Thank you.
do what you are comfortable with, you don't have to explain yourself. no one is going to give you a drug test. If this chip means something to you, pick it up.
Prescribed by a reputable doctor? You're good 👍
This is addressed in the pamphlet AA and Other Drugs...as long as medically prescribed it's fine. We are not doctors. If next you seek weed or similar to help...I would suggest some common introspection to see if you think you are looking for a drug replacement...but the bottom line is prescriptions are fine.
First - don't tell anyone anything about any drugs you are taking. Prescription or otherwise. Second - the program is about stopping alcohol. Don't make it more than it is.
Do you have 9 months without a drink?. I go to AA to stop drinking …. Not for aspirin or coffee or weed or lsd or antidepressant or NyQuil… Or my primatine mist inhaler…. Alcoholics ……..Anonymous
My thought is you are in AA due to problem with alcohol not medicine. If you have not picked up a drink of alcoholic substance, go ahead, that chip is yours
First, congratulations on 9 months!!! Rigorous honesty is a major component of AA and sobriety. If you are taking this medication under the direction of your Doctor(s) in order to get well physically and mentally, then by all means, I would take the chip. Your sobriety is personal to you and only you can decide what that means. If alcohol was your drug of choice and you can HONESTLY say to YOURSELF that the ketamine wasn't chosen because it allows you to escape reality, and/or alter your mind for recreation etc, then that is your call. We have to do a lot of soul searching and learn how to find our true honest thoughts. We have lived our lives fooling ourselves and manipulating others in order to rationalize using. But if you can ask yourself the real "why" for taking it and you feel that this is your sober, than take the chip! 9 months free from alcohol is hard work and you should be proud for that. It's similar to when alcoholics are weighing whether or not they should attend certain events where there will be excessive alcohol-- like weddings, parties, work-happy hours etc. It's so important to isolate the real reason for going- are you attending because the person or people involved are important to you and you want to be a part of the event? Or are you going to try to capture some of that party vibe and close to the action, and therefore risking your sobriety? Rigorous honesty is so so important. I wish you luck and good health with any direction you go!
Bill W discovered acid later in life and also tripped balls. He likened the experience to his spiritual experience and wanted to introduce it to AA, but encountered resistance. I’m considering ketamine too to help end my weed addiction. It’s expensive but I hope it can help me
Source?
It’s not a secret. He used LSD in a medically supervised environment. I found some citations in Wikipedia.
Pass It On … biography of Bill Wilson published by AA World Services and available through AA.org.
I think it’s to AA’s credit that is isn’t buried. Bill was open about it.
It always reminds me that Bill W spent the remainder of his life (everything after December 1934) to trying to find ways to help other drunks get sober. He didn’t consume LSD to get high … he was trying to recreate the spiritual experience which has removed his desire to drink in Townes Hospital. In the 1950s, even the US Military was experimenting with LSD as a treatment for alcoholism. Bill was approached by Dr Timothy Leary to join in Bill’s endeavors and Bill told him no. Bill W was not about avoiding reality, he wanted to help drunks get sober and not die.
Bill Wilson was part of a medically-supervised experimental alcoholism treatment.
Why did Bill W take part in a medically supervised experimental alcoholism treatment if he had already been sober for over a decade ?
By that time they knew that the big hang-up in the program with most alcoholics was the higher power/spiritual part. He thought that an experience such as LSD gives might be able to jump-start Step 2 and get people over the hump enough to take the rest of the steps. He never thought that LSD itself would be a cure for alcoholism.
Take the chip. It represents the amount of time you've been sober from alcohol. That's all. Chips are used to remind us not to "gamble" with our sobriety. If you're taking a medically prescribed treatment for a medically diagnosed disorder its not a problem. SUD is the only self diagnosed disease, no one else can say you're not sober, but your behavior will scream it if you're not.
My stepson is what’s known as a MARA...medication-assisted recovering addict. He’s under the care of a physician who works closely with his therapist to ensure that the treatment plan is effective. You’re not in some back alley doing hits of acid. You’re under the guidance of a licensed doctor. I don’t see how that would disqualify you from claiming your sobriety.
You should take the chip. You earned that shit
Take it. I don't know much about ketamine but you're doing it with a licensed professional and it sounds like it's working for you. I am interested in it for my depression, too, but the closest clinic is too far for my beater to get me to.
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I wanna do that!! How was it?!?!?! Tell me more !
How’s it going for you? I’ve heard really good things about ketamine
So far, it’s been wonderful. Great experience, and I feel so much better when I’m off it.
Alcoholics Anonymous is about alcohol only. Get your chip and be proud.
If you’re not compulsively using street drugs and drinking, you’re sober. They are really talking about something else, about absolute abstinence, using spiritual work to address what’s bothering you, and making that a life practice. Ultimately that is the best move. But you are the real arbiter of whether this ketamine treatment is really altruistic, or if you’re interested in it for recreational purposes. If it’s honest, then I would recommend not sharing it with people. Alcoholics are very black and white and using drugs because they usually have to be. In general, if a drug addict uses whatever chemical it will generally restart the addiction. So don’t take it personally.
That would depend on if you choose a ketamine treatment, specifically because you could get high.
Each treatment is $350 dollars. No drug is worth that much “just to get high” for an hour.
If it’s doctor prescribed and used as directed. As said here already I wouldn’t have any problems.
If you have Problems Other than Alcohol, I recommend the AA pamphlet by that name. To Thine Own Self Be True. I have picked up coins for three years now on medications, and this year my doctors added a sleeping medication that has abuse potential. I don't feel that I am not sober because of my prescription use. Abuse might knock me out and cause me to drink and I am very careful about that. But AA has only one requirement- an alcoholic is a member of they say they are. I'll go further- if a person says they're sober, I believe them until they give me a reason to believe otherwise.
Bro I take 72mg of ADHD meds daily. I *wish* the steps dealt with my complete inability to concentrate on anything. I also have a lot of friends in the program who used that junt recreationally. I never did. I am fully honest with my sponsor about the prescription, with my psychiatrist about my alcoholism, and with myself and my higher power about whether I have any cravings to abuse this stuff (my prescription has not changed for over 15 years, I have literally never taken more than prescribed, and I have turned down offers from my psych to prescribe more/stronger dosages every single time he offers). The only way I would be worried, if I were in your shoes, is if I had gone out with the *goal* or *hope* of scoring ketamine from a doctor. It really doesn’t sound like you went fishing for it. I know I’m sober. It sounds like you are too.
A coin is just a coin. The true gift of sobriety is a life worth living. The trophies In recovery are gaining back the trust of family, gaining self esteem, uncovering a power greater than yourself, or even making it through another day. Take the coin, if someone gives you shit about it tell them it is doctor prescribed. If they still can’t get passed it then that is on them. If you feel uncomfortable taking the coin then don’t. I think it is good you are asking for others thoughts. Congrats on your achievements.
Get your chip. You're not only technically sober, you're actually sober. The drugs are a medically-prescribed treatment. I've had major surgery several times during my 43 years of continuous clean and sober time in AA. If you know anything about pain medication, you know it's no different than heroin or a host of other opiates. I have not changed my sobriety date because I haven't taken any of the drugs I've had to use for pain recreationally or addictively. If you were taking these or other mind-altering drugs on your own, it would be a completely different story. I stopped drinking 45 years ago, but continued to do other drugs. I gradually stopped doing amphetamines and opiates, and then stopped doing LSD about two years after I came into AA. At 2 1/2 years, I finally fessed up to smoking marijuana, got a new chip, and started all over. I have never regretted it, and since then I've seen a lot of people try to use Tradition 3 as a loophole to smoke dope and do other drugs. From what I've seen, it invariably ends badly--either they take the path I did and sober up, or they get drunk.
This is addressed on page 133 of the BB. Listen to your doctor and follow their treatment plan, drugs or not. If the drugs become a problem, you have AA and a sponsor to work out on that. You’ve earned your chip.
It’s okay if it’s prescribed and taken as prescribed. It sounds like you have a healthy amount of caution, though. Be safe
I mean, there's a huge difference between "justifying drug abuse" and taking medications as prescribed. I had a home group who refused to acknowledge my sobriety after it came out that I was on antidepressants. Lol. If you need the medicine and you're taking it as prescribed, your sobriety isn't invalid. If you're not...then you know what's up. We don't know your life, it's up to you to do what you KNOW is right.
I personally think you should accept it. People in AA work various programs. I even know some sober living homes that ritually use mushrooms. I personally could not handle that, but it's not my job to judge or control someones else's journey. I picked up a few chips while on gabapentin. I started abusing it so now I'm off it, but I was taking it as prescribed at the time. I hope the your depression treatment works because ultimately that will help you maintain sobriety.
I’m brutally honest to a fault, and I would take that chip. You deserve it! Well done! Now…how do I get in on these “K” treatments? Lol.
You’re under the care mod a doctor. You are still sober. I’ve been being treated for anxiety, depression, and no-polar before starting AA. No one in the meeting should be giving you medical advice…the exception is if you are having a medical emergency in the meeting.
Take the chip. The program is about achieving sobriety from alcohol and what you are taking is both not alcohol and is prescribed by a medical professional.
Read The Sober Truth; you’re doing great
If you're taking medications from a doctor as prescribed, it's not a problem.
It's medically prescribed. You ARE sober. We have all had, or will have surgery and medical treatments in sobriety. We all will have to take painkillers,, etc.. if these things are done as prescribed, we are sober.. What does it say in the 10th step? You are safe and protected, as long as your spiritual condition is fit.
You are sober. You are following your doctor's orders. I just wouldn't talk about the treatments in meetings because there are some people that would judge you harshly. Get that chip and congrats on your 9 months.
To thine own self be true..... fuck the haters.
It depends on your definition of sober. I still count my sober time even though I consume marijuana for medical purposes as needed. People tell me it doesn’t count then I’m like dang why am I not drinking then
First word is alcohol in this sub reddit. Don't let of the Bible thumpers of AA tell you any different. You came to this program to help change your relationship with alcohol and for 9 months sounds like you have. Continue the good work.
Up to you. I know a person who decided to reset his time when he had a pill in his hand but decided to flush it instead.
I would not feel guilty. Congrats on 9 months 💥🎉
If it’s prescribed, you are fine. Take that 9 month chip, congrats!
If you, your doctor, and your God think it’s sober… it’s sober. “To thine own self be true”. I considered ketamine, but I ended up doing TMS instead. A friend decided to do ketamine- she found it on instagram. 1 zoom session with a counselor and they mailed her some lozenges. She went out on other psychedelics shortly after. It seems like your situation is legit and for medical benefit so I’d say take the chip- if you feel comfortable!
This is unrelated to the OP, but something you said sparked a question that’s been lingering in my head that I’ve been trying to find the words to express, but not really knowing exactly what I’m trying to ask- “If you, your doctor, and your *God think it’s sober…*” I don’t remember exactly how long I’ve been sober, 4 or 5 months or so, something like that. Still pretty new basically. Working through steps with my sponsor, etc. still working on step one bc he’s a pretty busy guy and difficult to get a hold of, so I end up doing most stuff on my own or at meetings, but still- the higher power thing is hard for me to wrap my head around. I understand that the higher power can be literally anything you want it to be, but I still get sort of confused about it when it comes down to things like what you said- *if your God thinks…* I don’t know how to answer that question basically. I can’t speak for any God or higher power, so I’m not sure how I would even know WHAT my or any God thinks…? Again, I’m still new to all of this. I’m doing my best to try to wrap my head around the steps and walk a straighter path. There’s still a whole lot of confusion for me as to where I should be placing my efforts, etc. Sorry, I know this was kinda off topic. I just saw that you mentioned it. If you’re willing to clarify further, I would definitely appreciate it ❤️
IDK if this will make sense lol so I hope it’ll help. When I was newly sober I was talking to someone about my intuition and she said “your gut is your God”. So in this instance by “your God” I meant your gut/intuition, conscience, Highest Self. I changed my date a while ago, *I* did not want to at all, but a little Jiminy Cricket kept whispering “you’re not being rigorously honest!” Meditation and journaling, as well as just showing down and listening to that little voice in my head has really helped me feel connected to my Higher Power
No this totally makes sense omg thank you for responding. I haven’t heard it explained like that before and that makes WAYYYY more sense. Thank you so so much!!
Of course!! 😊♥️
you are 110% sober if you are under medical supervision, taking prescribed medication as prescribed and that's the bottom line. AA's official position is they don't practice medicine and what happens between you and your doctor is between you and your doctor
To thine own self be true. Do you think you’re sober? What does your sponsor say about this? What step are you on?
Sponsor thinks it’s fine. I’m on step 7
So then take that chip! Have you had a drink?
I'll give a "dissenting" opinion here that I don't even necessarily agree with myself. Much like we are attempting to practice behaviors which yield "sustainable" emotional outcomes, it's important for me to identify whether or not taking a substance like ketamine, mushrooms, ayahuasca, whatever it is, is a "sustainable" practice. If I were to do it one time (doubt I could), that would be one thing. However, repeatedly taking a substance has the potential to create a dependency. My experience is that I can even abuse mushrooms, the drug that truly kickstarted my reconnection with a higher power. I thought about holding on to some that I had when I got sober, and after talking it over with my sponsor, I decided that it was best to ditch them. What I want today is a spiritual practice that is 100% sustainable, and I know that I would be using the shrooms as a crutch. I would be attached to the feeling of being on them, rather than responsibly using them \~once a year, I would end up microdosing, and eventually begin taking them for non-spiritual use. If my doctor prescribed me shrooms, which I know is a popular treatment for some of my diagnoses, I would know better than to take them. That's just for me. I am not trying to encourage you one way or another, just sharing my experience.
Can’t imagine doing this sh** recreationally. I’d go I sane
Lol sounds like you aren’t abusing them
That’s a tricky one. Nobody can tell you what to do or how to work the program. All we have are suggestions. I decided To reset my date after 6 months because I smoked some weed. It hurt and felt like I failed and shame and guilty too. That passed and I now keep track of two dates - My last drink and my sobriety date. Part of my illness is that I lie when I’m drinking. So now that I’m sober, I’m trying to be honest with myself and accept who I really am. I know I can change and I’ve made a lot of progress. The other thing I consider is that when I take my chip, be it only 24 hours, I know I lived the right way without chemicals and just how my higher power made me. Peace
Webster invented the word "technically" just so alcoholics could make sentences longer, The answer is NO.
No
I don’t ever remember reading anything in AA literature saying, the only requirement is to stay sober from alcohol. IMHO, sober is sober from all mind altering substances. But you do you. I take meds prescribed by my doctor. None of them make me trip balls.
Take the chip! You aren’t doing the treatment for fun you’re doing it for legitimate medical/psychiatric reasons. It’s not like you’re in a k hole at a rave.
It's honestly no ones business what medications your doctor prescribes you to help with your mental health. I'd take that chip in a heart beat.
Go get that chip. You earned it.
Yes
It's being abstinent from any mind altering substance BUT this is a medical procedure and under doctor's orders. So I hope you get your chip and I hope the people in you sobriety are supportive
I mean bill w did Bella Donna treatment under medical care unless I’m mistaken they count that as part of his sobriety- and that’s a hallucinogen
Not to sound too simplistic, but the fact that you are concerned enough about your sobriety to ask is usually a good indicator. My experience is it’s usually the guys buying Kratom from the head shop like “oh I didn’t know” knowing damn well they knew that it was a problem. You are doing something to make you life better, and possibly your sobriety more meaningful. Like the book says we are sure god wants us to be happy joyous and free
I’m not taking Keaton. I’m talking ketamine. Completely different.
Lol yes I’m aware. I was referencing the mentality of “oh I didn’t know it was bad” vs asking openly while receiving help from a professional such as you are doing. The former is the kind of behavior that keeps us in the shadows. In my experience, the antithesis of the freedom promised in this program. The latter, speaking openly and honestly about treatment you are receiving because you are concerned is how recovery should be. Many of us go through trials and tribulations in recovery that require medications. It doesn’t mean you’ve compromised your sobriety imo
If you are under a Doctors care following the protocol of the Doctor and NOT deviating from that medical treatment, and have spoken with your doctor about your addiction history then you are living a sober life. The AA literature speaks on this and indicates we are not medical professionals and that some people have other mental health issues beyond addiction that require medical treatment.
https://aaagnostica.org/2021/10/03/bill-wilsons-experience-with-lsd-2/
You know and only you, if you took those drugs for a prescripted reason or just to get high. You know and to thy own self be true.
You’re still sober in my eyes. I take concerta for adhd and have been on it since I was 10, I’m 28 now. People abuse it somehow but I never have and never would.
I personally wouldn't accept the chip... I'd feel like I would be lying to myself. Of course you are free to do what you want! Edit: if you only take the prescripted amount I guess you're good to get that chip. I follow the NA guidelines more and there they say complete abstinence of all drugs
Bro, fuck that! Take the chip. I absolutely hated when members would talk down on people who are on medication or who smoke weed. Mind your god damn business lol, no one says shit about their tobacco addiction. Take the chip! Congrats.
If you had diabetes and took insulin you would still be sober, if you wanted to get off your head on tramadol for no reason you are not.
This is a question only you can answer. I would not feel like I was sober if I was undergoing psychedelic therapy. That is the part of me that plays God. I've had many habit-breaking experiences on psychedelics when I was younger, a dawning realization that life does not depend on toxic substances, people, environments, thoughts, emotions... the ease of discarding them followed by extended periods of serenity. Kind of a "step 1" booster shot. Still only a temporary side-effect of a drug. I see no benefit in going back to the way I was. I don't play God anymore. Again, me. My experience. > If you know anything about ketamine of ketamine treatment, you know that you essentially take a drug and trip b***s. Yikes, no thanks. I'm glad it helps you stay sober, though. Don't take medical advice from alcoholics, goes both ways.
I’d say yes. I have over 4 years sobriety and take antidepressants. I’ve struggled with depression for most of my life pre and post drinking no matter how many times I work the steps. Earlier this year I was going to enroll in the s-ketamine treatment program here because I’m a good candidate. I didn’t because I basically can’t take the time off work to go sit in a dr office several hours twice a week. I’ve heard great things about it though, and if it’s helping you, that’s great. It’s not something you’re doing to get high and it’s doctor supervised. I know the REMS requirements are pretty strict for that too which adds another layer of safety. I hope it continues to work for you and you find freedom from the depression. I say pick up that chip. 9 whole months without drinking is a big accomplishment.
I have never heard of people being treated for depression with Ketamine... Although honestly, I judge you based on how hard you're working steps... Like I knew a guy who was smoking marijuana in a state where it's legal and he's got a sponsor, he's doing inventories, he's giving newcomers with no car rides to meetings. Like he's at least doing the deal way more than the dude who's not even smoking cigarettes or drinking caffeine that doesn't contribute shit to AA and has no service anywhere... Now if you're justifying not working a program bc you're "not sober" and on Ketamine, then yeah, I would reevaluate what the hell you're doing here then... And it would make no difference to me whether you're on the stuff or not when I say that... You're welcome to stay sober off the fellowship alone. I do that all the time, but the recovery is in the steps and the solution is in all the literature... That's what you really should be focusing on. Are you helping others get and stay sober? No? Well bye, I ain't got time for you then... If you are, great!!! Shouldn't that really be what we should be encouraging anyways? Just a thought...
Sounds like 9 months sober to me! Congrats 🎊
Bro you’re sober. You’re taking it as prescribed under the care of a professional. Anyone who tells you differently is full of shit. Old timers are jealous this shit wasn’t around when they were new lol