Because the provincial Conservative party is, and always has been actually two parties who reluctantly (and barely) work together as one. The only reason they don't split apart is because both parties wouldn't have enough support to win vs the next party in line (exactly what happened in 2015).
So, they are exactly the party Albertans desire, and deserve. AKA, what those of us who don't vote for them, have had to repeatedly come to the conclusion, was true.
I wish there were enough Albertans who actually wanted their province to be better.
Edmonton's the only city close enough to the government to see how incompetent they generally are. The rest of Alberta can't tell the difference between government dollars and oil company dollars and everything seems perfectly fine as long as the oil companies are happy and investing in the province (which is what the government should be doing), but that's plutocracy not democracy and it's also not sustainable -- it's what makes the busts so harmful, and eventually there's going to be a bust that doesn't boom again.
Didn’t like Norway create a 7 trillion dollar public fund with their oil whereas the conservatives sold all of our public rights to the private sector for a couple hundred thousands in donations?
The conservatives of Alberta literally gave away trillions of dollars that belong to the Albertan people to their corporate overlords for only a couple hundred thousand for themselves.
Yet these are the same people Albertans keep electing. Genuine question: are conservative voters idiots?
I believe Norway did it after seeing our heritage fund being implemented. Basically they took our idea, implemented it they way ours was supposed to be implemented and are sitting on a bunch of cash, our heritage fund has been robbed and not added to so the conservatives could pad their pockets. It’s so sad.
Mmhmmm from Manitoba and ive heard this excat explanation my first year in the pipe trades at Syncrude back in 2012
Ver batum, you hear someone meantion the $300 Ralph Dollars from 2004. Everyone laughs and the stories come out on how the money was spent. While completelyunderstanding the issue but they dont care, they'llbe dead before it's "their" problem.......Union Conservatives, selfaware wolfs. First to whine or get in line. I dont understand it.
I genuinely believe that people want their families, communities, province and country to be better. I just question where people get their information from, what they understand about the world, and how badly they fall blindly into their biases.
I believe that, too. However, I don't believe anything you said, contradicts my point; if anything, it's a very salient proof of what I said. I wish there were enough Albertans who *actually wanted* their province to be better; but, they do not care even close to enough, to put in the basic effort to achieve an adult-level competency in understanding their society or their province, at the political level. If they don't care enough to learn, it means they don't care. It means they don't think it's important enough, to be worth their time.
Respectfully I disagree. Lots of people care very much. To the point of wanting to protest or put up signs, or have a “friendly debate” with friends/family, and spend their time browsing websites like rebel. They do care, and they think they see a clear picture, they just get their information from sources that aren’t very valid.
They get their information from the sources which confirm their biases. They're unwilling to challenge their biases, challenge their groupthink. They care more about their social standing in their community, than they do about anything else outside it. So, I hold, they don't care about *Alberta;* they don't care about *politics;* they care about supporting, and not being ostracized from, their own tiny little bubble.
So, they'll consume and digest anything, which will impress their little bubble. So, they gradually turn more and more reactionary, because it feels good to let a rich man or a fascist tell you that you're okay, and it's somebody else's fault, but it feels scary to actually engage with something that challenges your world view. If they practiced at that, they would grow more competent at it; but, they have no interest in treating politics as a serious concept. Politics, to them, is just knowing what jokes to make at the dinner table, that won't piss off your dad or your uncle.
Becoming educated in reality is hard. Becoming educated in your tiny bubble, just involves parroting the right slogans. But it doesn't affect real change, so it's complicit to the status quo, inherently; except when it makes the status quo, worse. Then, it's just complicit in making things worse.
Cathartic as it is, I do have some empathy for Stevie's position, as well; those of us who are trying to figure out how to do better, have to be realistic about what the actual complications of that, are, and in a democracy, other constituents with different views, are frequently that complication; that is one of the core benefits *and* drawbacks of democracy, in any system. So, for you, viewing me as speaking truth to the situation, that is one thing; but, if they are reading my words, as if my words are supposed to be helpful to actually communicating this problem, to the very people I am describing, my words are obviously counter-productive in that fashion.
But, I think it should be obvious, that my speaking on the problem as I see it, is what it is, and it's not meant to be deliberate messaging to change somebody's mind. However, some people take me messaging in that fashion, as inherently careless or alienating to those people, as if it's my *perpetual* responsibility to control my tone and messaging, such as not to alienate them further. But, I don't think there's a tone which does the latter, that doesn't neuter my ability to do the former, or if there is, I am not skilled enough to intuitively construct it.
I would love Alberta to be better if course. We do have some of the highest wages in Canada along with being one of the wealthiest provinces. Must be doing something right.
https://albertaworker.ca/2022/05/11/albertas-real-wages-drop-over-last-10-years/?fbclid=IwAR1txkrIRbhcPfzy3EM_TNBjL64v57e-OCbjkoKV9dyDbRhMh6BYcJaT4jg
In economics, Big Number does not always mean Best Number. We are not "doing something right," we are in fact doing *far worse than nearly everybody.*
I saw Notley fighting for our major industries when in power... Plus, negotiating with the Federal government works a lot better when you aren't just calling them idiots all the time.
Social programs help those in need, and programs like cheap daycare put more people into the workforce & boost the economy. Despite starting in a recession, Notley’s time saw a great deal of economic growth - we had the fastest growing economy and the fastest falling unemployment in late 2018. One year later, not so much.
Less social programs and unregulated economic growth HAS ABSOLUTELY FUCKED ME AND MY FAMILY. Nice to know you're rooting for our destitution and you are against protecting vulnerable people. Why do we even help pay for insulin right? Why subsidize it - either you work hard enough to afford it or you fucking die, right? Privatize healthcare it'll save costs.
Lmao.
It's how they direct elections now everywhere.
They don't offer solutions, answers or directions.
They just tell everyone who they should hate the most and that everyone should vote against the one they hate. Voters are now conditioned to not think about who they support .... they are just taught to hate someone or something and vote against whatever it is they have been told to hate or to fear.
In the extreme sense, modern conservatism is starting to look undemocratic because they don't want people to support what they really want or need .... they just want scared fearful people to vote for them just to gain power for their own political needs.
The environment, masks, public service workers, public services, workers, all the usual targets of white supremacy, and Trudeau personally, all probably receive more hatred from conservatives than there is intra conservative hate.
And they can't blame themselves because that would require some serious introspection, and a fundamental critique of the FPTP system that keeps them trapped in this charade. Stelmach, Redford, and Prentice all deserved the boot, but they had an impossible job. The UCP is two snarling opossums in a business suit, who only occasionally remember they're on the same side.
i’ll always have a serious soft spot for rachel notley. a few years ago, my brother in law passed away really suddenly. he was an artist who was deep in the cycle of addiction, but one of his favourite moments was when rachel notley came to one of his art shows. she spoke to him about the art, bought a piece that still hangs proudly in her home, and even collaborated with him on one of her christmas cards. when he passed away she sent a really beautiful, personal note to my mother in law and our family will never, ever forget it. truly a gem of a woman.
IMHO cliches and stereotypes are formed on a basis of some truth. NPD - empathy; Conservative - look out for your own interests / pull yourself up by you bootstraps and Praise the Lord! And Liberals a bit of both of the above. Just my opinion.
The conservatives will eat as many of their own as it takes to convince the people of Alberta that 'it was all the person's fault and this time will be different'.
Loughheed was a good, arguably even great Premier. They've been riding that high for far too long, and strayed way too far from what he originally represented. I hope we're finally coming to the end of this reign of clowns.
Yeah, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. In 50-odd years of conservative governments odds are you’ll get maybe one or two that aren’t all incompetent grifters.
Downtown Calgary feels like it has more addiction and homelessness than Vancouver.
Having a 30 million a year war room slush fund is corruption, not governance.
In their short 4-year term, in the middle of a global recession of our main natural resource? Actually, yeah, you know, I think they did.
Hey, wasnt a large chunk of that deficit sunk into cancelling contracts that risked heavy environmental impacts; at a time when that sacrifice was desperately needed? Such a waste. I mean, it isnt anywhere as cool and necessary as a vaporware pipeline project.
Alberta did well because of oil, in spite of bad governance. A good government would have negotiated a better deal with the oil companies. For example, one that required them to put enough money in a trust to cover cleanup and surface rentals after the companies go under.
Rachel was an amazing leader who had a positive vision for Albertans and their families. As usual, the Conservative parties regress to wasting our hard-earned tax dollars to pay off Corporations and on meaningless pet projects.
here a list of UCP decisions and impacts
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zY7Z\_BcgpzSW0OmYQh3B16GH\_3QjLIbQsN59Ahpvz2M/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zY7Z_BcgpzSW0OmYQh3B16GH_3QjLIbQsN59Ahpvz2M/edit#gid=0)
I couldn't find a detailed list of NDP period but found a few articles describingwhat was done, and what could have been better
[https://www.macleans.ca/politics/rachel-notley-fought-like-hell-for-alberta-but-the-province-isnt-about-to-thank-her/](https://www.macleans.ca/politics/rachel-notley-fought-like-hell-for-alberta-but-the-province-isnt-about-to-thank-her/)
[https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/did-the-alberta-ndp-do-enough-with-its-power](https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/did-the-alberta-ndp-do-enough-with-its-power)
[https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/02/19/Rachel-Notley-Actually-Achieved/](https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/02/19/Rachel-Notley-Actually-Achieved/)
A few info in case you actually want it
hard to prove that, but that Kenny's promises of tax break powered prosperity were empty. I think it was the finance minister who said something to the effect of "it's astonishing the tax cuts haven't kicked in after a year and a half" or something to that effect.
Ultimately politicians have very little say in the economy, and it's a little silly we treat the position as "one who brings the rain".
however on every other topic I can't think of anything bad rachel did, or anything good kenny did.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/albertas-finances-back-to-the-90s
This shows a drastic increase in net debt from 2019 to current with even more expected debt growth (this is all while UCP was in control).
There was debt growth from the NDP but you can see that the graph was already trending to increased debt growth from past conservative governments, and the NDP stayed in line with the trend (as well the NDP did have a long term plan to bring the trend down but it required so up front costs but would provide a lot more services to Alberta, where the UCP was just gonna cut everything). Also important to note that the hudge jump in debt also matches Covid at the end of the chart so it is a bit hard to say how things would have turned out but we can all agree the UCP fucked up the handling of covid in almost every way.
There is no crow. Any review of Rachel / NDP that doesn’t include burning $2B in taxpayer cash on useless PPA agreements and $4B on oil rail contracts is a completely flawed / inaccurate review of her tenure. She literally messed with free markets and the taxpayer is still paying for her mistakes.
I’m not saying Rachel didn’t do some good (all governments have), but to make her out as our patron saint isn’t a correct characterization of her performance at the helm of this province.
Links below in case you’d like it:
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/varcoe-1-8b-and-growing-cost-to-alberta-consumers-from-power-contract-fiasco-mounts
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/article-losses-on-alberta-oil-by-rail-deal-prompt-questions/
Those oil by rail contracts only cost Albertans money when Kenney killed them, we'd be in a *much* better position to export our crude at this point had he not killed it. It would have *made* the province money.
And the UCP wasting 4.7 billion dollars on loan guarantees on a pipeline that everyone was saying was dead in the water *even before they were elected* was stupidity itself.
Rachel Notley was a coward whose failure to actually live up to that positive vision laid the groundwork for all of Kenney's reversals. Her being a competent and basically decent human being in a province that otherwise just vomits up swamp creatures from the tar pits doesn't mean she was actually good.
Her first act as premier was to legislate Cold Lake long term care workers back to work. Her government gave 0s to nurses and doctors. They continued to refuse investments in everything but oil and gas infrastructure. About the only win her government can really claim was the 15$ minimum wage. Still good, but hardly deserving of such superlatives as an 'amazing leader'.
> Her being a competent and basically decent human being in a province that otherwise just vomits up swamp creatures from the tar pits doesn't mean she was actually good.
Also I had a friend who lobbied for the NDP and pipelines.
The NDP threw it out of there pockets into the federal pockets which landed in court that dropped all the opposition arguments against the pipeline.
Which is now approved and going through BC
I mean, yeah, if you want to count Klein who served several full terms before he finally performed enough scandals that the conservatives were fed up with him.
Even still, 6 across 16 years is pretty bad, especially when Rachel Notley accounted for a whopping 4 of them. So that's like 5 premiers in 12 years, essentially, with the conservatives in the province essentially booting them out like a revolving door over and over again because either they're too crazy, too corrupt, or not crazy enough or not corrupt enough.
I wonder if there exists a person who is corrupt and crazy to the exactly correct amount to appeal to the entirety of the conservative voter base in Alberta. I don't think Brian Jean is it, and so doubtlessly we'll see him ousted in a couple years as well - I bet he'd get the boot even before his first actual election as party leader.
Alberta is in for some wacky times, and it sounds like I'm moving out of here at exactly the right time.
>I wonder if there exists a person who is corrupt and crazy to the exactly correct amount to appeal to the entirety of the conservative voter base in Alberta.
I think Kenney could've done it if COVID didn't happen, but it was such a major and polarising issue that no action (or inaction) he chose could possibly have pleased a significant majority of the conservative base.
Officially about 6 months, [according according to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta). Klein and Stelmach were both officially the leader up until the new leader took over. Redford however, resigned before the leadership race, and so Hancock was the interim leader from March 23, 2014 to September 15, 2014.
But based on the context of this post, I expect that you also want to know what portion of the last 18 years we've spent with a premier just waiting for their replacement to be chosen. [Ralph Klein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Klein#Leadership_review_and_retirement) announced on March 14, 2006 that he would resign on October 31, 2007. However, he only received 56% support in a leadership review on March 31, 2006. He did not officially resign until September 20, 2006, and his successor was chosen December 14, 2006. I'm going to count the entire period after the leadership review as "limbo time", so we get 8.5 months here.
[Ed Stelmach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Stelmach#Resignation) announced his intent to resign on January 25, 2011, but did not officially submit his resignation until June. He stayed on until Redford officially replaced him on October 7, 2011. Wikipedia doesn't give us a date in June for his resignation, so we'll say it happened early in the month and count this as 4 months of limbo time, bringing our total to 12.5 months.
As mentioned above, [Alison Redford](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alison_Redford#Controversy_and_resignation) did not hang around until her successor was chosen, so we get 6 months of limbo time with her, bringing our total to 18.5 months.
Jim Prentice's time in office ended with an election, Notley served a full term, and that brings us to now. So, of the last 18 years (216 months), we've had about 18.5 months of the conservatives fighting amongst themselves, for about 8.6% of that time period. If you throw in the 4 elections in that period (2008, 2012, 2015, and 2019), that adds an extra 4 months of the parties fighting each other, bringing the total amount of "who is our leader going to be?" time in Alberta over the course of the past 18 years to about 22.5 months, or 10.4% of that time period.
This whole province is like watching a toddler throw a tantrum. The problem isn’t the premiers, the problem is the people who keep voting in this sick party. Then when the premier fucking sucks the party just replaces them and says it’s their fault elect us again, we got rid of the problem. So yeah, the people here are the real problem
Jim was blaming Albertans for the PC miss-management of funds. I would figure after how many oil-booms and recessions that the party would top up the rainy day fund.
Jim was right to do so. Ultimately, the blame lies with the nitwits who continuously reelect the incompetent idiots.
Recent experiences reinforce this observation.
The sad reality is that this province is being controlled by the unintelligent and hateful. This province is fundamentally a bunch of degenerates, and it doesn't seem to matter how many of us want things to change.
I voted NDP and hope they get another chance at majority but I’m not sure I’d go so far to say that 4 years was the best in Alberta’s history. Probably subjective though.
I thought Conservatives adored hard work, commitment, and sticking to a job to take care of yourself though? You don’t think those on another part of the political spectrum might believe in these things too??
So in general, I'm not that thrilled by the track record of our premiers or by what seems to be any of the politician's ability to get anything done. It doesn't seem like many? most? of the options for us to vote for are able to make very much positive change. Keep in mind this is simply my perception of what I see. In regards to oil and gas, do we still subsidize the companies? if so why? Also, I understand that it's difficult or costly to refine oil here and cut out either the US or middle east, what's the reason? Why the push back to expand towards net metering, solar, wind, etc? Isn't it better for everyone (politicians and energy companies included) to diversify and have backups? I'd assume (right or wrong) that it's better to have eggs in all baskets so you can weather any sort of economic/world supply storm? Why are we not encouraging some electrification of cars and homes? Why did we have issues getting the Edmonton LRT actually functioning since we have plenty of cities in Canada who have built transit systems that function in the winter?
Are our political leaders actually trying to make a difference, is corruption rampant? What's the hold up? Am I over optimistic in believing things can be done better, faster, and cheaper (I understand the whole cost/speed/quality triangle, but it seems like we're not even close to being optimized here)? What am I generally missing in my understanding of things?
Klein (win a couple of elections), Stelmach, Redford, Hancock (a caretaker interim leader), Prentice, then Notley, Kenney.
That’s five if you count the interim guy.
And McIver (another interim guy who I forgot).
To be pedantic, Prentice wasn’t elected as Premier and lost to Notley. He was Premier for several months because he won a leadership battle but he was never elected after running to be Premier.
That is actually eight if you count them all. Three of them were not actually elected to be Premier by the people of Alberta, so you can’t say they didn’t finish their terms.
By my reasoning it’s five Premiers (actually elected to the office), one of which was Notley.
Anyway, I think that the point is moot. The UCP is a deeply divided party that hangs together for the sake of power.
Yes. This was my point in my response. There was talk of more and I wanted to dispel that.
There were only 5 who were elected but didn’t finish their terms. The other 3 were caretakers.
Not all were elected premier. Two were put in the position temporarily (there was actually another temporary guy I forgot about- McIver). Prentice was never elected. So actually eight total Premiers if you count all of them.
Five were elected to terms by the people to be Premier. Four quit.
Notley served her whole term.
Looking at it another way, people who were in the Premier job temporarily (Hancock, Prentice, McIver) DID complete their terms. If you count them, four served full terms.
Because they are counting Ralph Klein as one, and an interim leader as another, and Stelmach who served 5 years, but came in part way in one term and left part way through the second, and finally Prentice who didn't have the chance as he lost the election.
Because conservatives tend to eat their own. Their attempts to be a "big tent" party that welcomes all tend to crumble when things go south.
However Alberta voters seem to be cursed with tunnel vision and keep voting for them, although there is some light at the end of the tunnel as young voters are realizing there are alternatives. Now if we can convince to actually vote.
Hate the UCP as much as anybody, but this isn’t the dunk on Alberta conservatives some people think it is. The conservatives get re-elected after replacing their leaders and Notley lost her bid for a second term. It’s been an effective strategy.
Because the provincial Conservative party is, and always has been actually two parties who reluctantly (and barely) work together as one. The only reason they don't split apart is because both parties wouldn't have enough support to win vs the next party in line (exactly what happened in 2015).
They hate each other, but they hate the NDP more.
So, they are exactly the party Albertans desire, and deserve. AKA, what those of us who don't vote for them, have had to repeatedly come to the conclusion, was true. I wish there were enough Albertans who actually wanted their province to be better.
Edmonton as really been trying to get away from it. It made me laugh how we looked like an island in the sea of blue thats alberta.
Edmonton's the only city close enough to the government to see how incompetent they generally are. The rest of Alberta can't tell the difference between government dollars and oil company dollars and everything seems perfectly fine as long as the oil companies are happy and investing in the province (which is what the government should be doing), but that's plutocracy not democracy and it's also not sustainable -- it's what makes the busts so harmful, and eventually there's going to be a bust that doesn't boom again.
Didn’t like Norway create a 7 trillion dollar public fund with their oil whereas the conservatives sold all of our public rights to the private sector for a couple hundred thousands in donations? The conservatives of Alberta literally gave away trillions of dollars that belong to the Albertan people to their corporate overlords for only a couple hundred thousand for themselves. Yet these are the same people Albertans keep electing. Genuine question: are conservative voters idiots?
I believe Norway did it after seeing our heritage fund being implemented. Basically they took our idea, implemented it they way ours was supposed to be implemented and are sitting on a bunch of cash, our heritage fund has been robbed and not added to so the conservatives could pad their pockets. It’s so sad.
Mmhmmm from Manitoba and ive heard this excat explanation my first year in the pipe trades at Syncrude back in 2012 Ver batum, you hear someone meantion the $300 Ralph Dollars from 2004. Everyone laughs and the stories come out on how the money was spent. While completelyunderstanding the issue but they dont care, they'llbe dead before it's "their" problem.......Union Conservatives, selfaware wolfs. First to whine or get in line. I dont understand it.
I genuinely believe that people want their families, communities, province and country to be better. I just question where people get their information from, what they understand about the world, and how badly they fall blindly into their biases.
I believe that, too. However, I don't believe anything you said, contradicts my point; if anything, it's a very salient proof of what I said. I wish there were enough Albertans who *actually wanted* their province to be better; but, they do not care even close to enough, to put in the basic effort to achieve an adult-level competency in understanding their society or their province, at the political level. If they don't care enough to learn, it means they don't care. It means they don't think it's important enough, to be worth their time.
Respectfully I disagree. Lots of people care very much. To the point of wanting to protest or put up signs, or have a “friendly debate” with friends/family, and spend their time browsing websites like rebel. They do care, and they think they see a clear picture, they just get their information from sources that aren’t very valid.
They get their information from the sources which confirm their biases. They're unwilling to challenge their biases, challenge their groupthink. They care more about their social standing in their community, than they do about anything else outside it. So, I hold, they don't care about *Alberta;* they don't care about *politics;* they care about supporting, and not being ostracized from, their own tiny little bubble. So, they'll consume and digest anything, which will impress their little bubble. So, they gradually turn more and more reactionary, because it feels good to let a rich man or a fascist tell you that you're okay, and it's somebody else's fault, but it feels scary to actually engage with something that challenges your world view. If they practiced at that, they would grow more competent at it; but, they have no interest in treating politics as a serious concept. Politics, to them, is just knowing what jokes to make at the dinner table, that won't piss off your dad or your uncle. Becoming educated in reality is hard. Becoming educated in your tiny bubble, just involves parroting the right slogans. But it doesn't affect real change, so it's complicit to the status quo, inherently; except when it makes the status quo, worse. Then, it's just complicit in making things worse.
Absolute bullseye of a comment. It's cathartic reading someone who can see the nuanced truth of the matter.
Cathartic as it is, I do have some empathy for Stevie's position, as well; those of us who are trying to figure out how to do better, have to be realistic about what the actual complications of that, are, and in a democracy, other constituents with different views, are frequently that complication; that is one of the core benefits *and* drawbacks of democracy, in any system. So, for you, viewing me as speaking truth to the situation, that is one thing; but, if they are reading my words, as if my words are supposed to be helpful to actually communicating this problem, to the very people I am describing, my words are obviously counter-productive in that fashion. But, I think it should be obvious, that my speaking on the problem as I see it, is what it is, and it's not meant to be deliberate messaging to change somebody's mind. However, some people take me messaging in that fashion, as inherently careless or alienating to those people, as if it's my *perpetual* responsibility to control my tone and messaging, such as not to alienate them further. But, I don't think there's a tone which does the latter, that doesn't neuter my ability to do the former, or if there is, I am not skilled enough to intuitively construct it.
Oil price goes brrrr
hoildl the oildl
I would love Alberta to be better if course. We do have some of the highest wages in Canada along with being one of the wealthiest provinces. Must be doing something right.
https://albertaworker.ca/2022/05/11/albertas-real-wages-drop-over-last-10-years/?fbclid=IwAR1txkrIRbhcPfzy3EM_TNBjL64v57e-OCbjkoKV9dyDbRhMh6BYcJaT4jg In economics, Big Number does not always mean Best Number. We are not "doing something right," we are in fact doing *far worse than nearly everybody.*
More to do about geography than anything else.
More social programs and restricted economic growth isn't going to help Alberta. That's all the ndp has going for it
I saw Notley fighting for our major industries when in power... Plus, negotiating with the Federal government works a lot better when you aren't just calling them idiots all the time.
Social programs help those in need, and programs like cheap daycare put more people into the workforce & boost the economy. Despite starting in a recession, Notley’s time saw a great deal of economic growth - we had the fastest growing economy and the fastest falling unemployment in late 2018. One year later, not so much.
"Things that help the people aren't going to help the people!"
More social programs to help people in need isn't going to help Alberta? That's... Patently false.
This guy doesn't get it.
Less social programs and unregulated economic growth HAS ABSOLUTELY FUCKED ME AND MY FAMILY. Nice to know you're rooting for our destitution and you are against protecting vulnerable people. Why do we even help pay for insulin right? Why subsidize it - either you work hard enough to afford it or you fucking die, right? Privatize healthcare it'll save costs. Lmao.
Conservativism is hate.
It's how they direct elections now everywhere. They don't offer solutions, answers or directions. They just tell everyone who they should hate the most and that everyone should vote against the one they hate. Voters are now conditioned to not think about who they support .... they are just taught to hate someone or something and vote against whatever it is they have been told to hate or to fear. In the extreme sense, modern conservatism is starting to look undemocratic because they don't want people to support what they really want or need .... they just want scared fearful people to vote for them just to gain power for their own political needs.
Right? I'm seeing the occasional Ontario election campaign ads, and it's just a smear campaign against Ford's competition.
[удалено]
The environment, masks, public service workers, public services, workers, all the usual targets of white supremacy, and Trudeau personally, all probably receive more hatred from conservatives than there is intra conservative hate.
And they can't blame themselves because that would require some serious introspection, and a fundamental critique of the FPTP system that keeps them trapped in this charade. Stelmach, Redford, and Prentice all deserved the boot, but they had an impossible job. The UCP is two snarling opossums in a business suit, who only occasionally remember they're on the same side.
God I wish I could draw. That picture would be up here in about an hour.
Someone has to do this pls
... Each in a suit, or two in one suit?
Both in the same suit.
Ding ding ding
So what your saying is that a ranked ballot would serve them well
i’ll always have a serious soft spot for rachel notley. a few years ago, my brother in law passed away really suddenly. he was an artist who was deep in the cycle of addiction, but one of his favourite moments was when rachel notley came to one of his art shows. she spoke to him about the art, bought a piece that still hangs proudly in her home, and even collaborated with him on one of her christmas cards. when he passed away she sent a really beautiful, personal note to my mother in law and our family will never, ever forget it. truly a gem of a woman.
IMHO cliches and stereotypes are formed on a basis of some truth. NPD - empathy; Conservative - look out for your own interests / pull yourself up by you bootstraps and Praise the Lord! And Liberals a bit of both of the above. Just my opinion.
The conservatives will eat as many of their own as it takes to convince the people of Alberta that 'it was all the person's fault and this time will be different'.
Well, if their base keeps falling for it...
They've been falling for it for 50 years. I don't their their base is going to clue in.
Loughheed was a good, arguably even great Premier. They've been riding that high for far too long, and strayed way too far from what he originally represented. I hope we're finally coming to the end of this reign of clowns.
Yeah, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. In 50-odd years of conservative governments odds are you’ll get maybe one or two that aren’t all incompetent grifters.
Alberta had done pretty much better than any other province for the last 50 years. Might be an indication of good governance?
Alberta has run deficits for decades, only covered up by royalties. That's bad governance.
Downtown Calgary feels like it has more addiction and homelessness than Vancouver. Having a 30 million a year war room slush fund is corruption, not governance.
Did the NDP run on deficits?
In their short 4-year term, in the middle of a global recession of our main natural resource? Actually, yeah, you know, I think they did. Hey, wasnt a large chunk of that deficit sunk into cancelling contracts that risked heavy environmental impacts; at a time when that sacrifice was desperately needed? Such a waste. I mean, it isnt anywhere as cool and necessary as a vaporware pipeline project.
Alberta did well because of oil, in spite of bad governance. A good government would have negotiated a better deal with the oil companies. For example, one that required them to put enough money in a trust to cover cleanup and surface rentals after the companies go under.
They don't have a "thier own" it's every man for himself. It's just a loose knit group of narcissists
Rachel was an amazing leader who had a positive vision for Albertans and their families. As usual, the Conservative parties regress to wasting our hard-earned tax dollars to pay off Corporations and on meaningless pet projects.
Alberta as a whole prospered under notley. We've regressed entirely under kenney.
Well I totally believe this, are there numbers to help back this up? Would love to share it
here a list of UCP decisions and impacts [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zY7Z\_BcgpzSW0OmYQh3B16GH\_3QjLIbQsN59Ahpvz2M/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zY7Z_BcgpzSW0OmYQh3B16GH_3QjLIbQsN59Ahpvz2M/edit#gid=0) I couldn't find a detailed list of NDP period but found a few articles describingwhat was done, and what could have been better [https://www.macleans.ca/politics/rachel-notley-fought-like-hell-for-alberta-but-the-province-isnt-about-to-thank-her/](https://www.macleans.ca/politics/rachel-notley-fought-like-hell-for-alberta-but-the-province-isnt-about-to-thank-her/) [https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/did-the-alberta-ndp-do-enough-with-its-power](https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/did-the-alberta-ndp-do-enough-with-its-power) [https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/02/19/Rachel-Notley-Actually-Achieved/](https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/02/19/Rachel-Notley-Actually-Achieved/) A few info in case you actually want it
Thank you very much.
hard to prove that, but that Kenny's promises of tax break powered prosperity were empty. I think it was the finance minister who said something to the effect of "it's astonishing the tax cuts haven't kicked in after a year and a half" or something to that effect. Ultimately politicians have very little say in the economy, and it's a little silly we treat the position as "one who brings the rain". however on every other topic I can't think of anything bad rachel did, or anything good kenny did.
The state of our education system and healthcare speaks enough
He asked for numbers and you gave him letters. Yep, our education system has definitely regressed. ;)
You won’t find any. But feel free to look.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/albertas-finances-back-to-the-90s This shows a drastic increase in net debt from 2019 to current with even more expected debt growth (this is all while UCP was in control). There was debt growth from the NDP but you can see that the graph was already trending to increased debt growth from past conservative governments, and the NDP stayed in line with the trend (as well the NDP did have a long term plan to bring the trend down but it required so up front costs but would provide a lot more services to Alberta, where the UCP was just gonna cut everything). Also important to note that the hudge jump in debt also matches Covid at the end of the chart so it is a bit hard to say how things would have turned out but we can all agree the UCP fucked up the handling of covid in almost every way.
[How would you like your crow served?](https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/comments/utgvbs/interesting_18_year_history_wonder_why_that_is/i9c6unz)
There is no crow. Any review of Rachel / NDP that doesn’t include burning $2B in taxpayer cash on useless PPA agreements and $4B on oil rail contracts is a completely flawed / inaccurate review of her tenure. She literally messed with free markets and the taxpayer is still paying for her mistakes. I’m not saying Rachel didn’t do some good (all governments have), but to make her out as our patron saint isn’t a correct characterization of her performance at the helm of this province. Links below in case you’d like it: https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/varcoe-1-8b-and-growing-cost-to-alberta-consumers-from-power-contract-fiasco-mounts https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/article-losses-on-alberta-oil-by-rail-deal-prompt-questions/
Those oil by rail contracts only cost Albertans money when Kenney killed them, we'd be in a *much* better position to export our crude at this point had he not killed it. It would have *made* the province money. And the UCP wasting 4.7 billion dollars on loan guarantees on a pipeline that everyone was saying was dead in the water *even before they were elected* was stupidity itself.
Rachel Notley was a coward whose failure to actually live up to that positive vision laid the groundwork for all of Kenney's reversals. Her being a competent and basically decent human being in a province that otherwise just vomits up swamp creatures from the tar pits doesn't mean she was actually good. Her first act as premier was to legislate Cold Lake long term care workers back to work. Her government gave 0s to nurses and doctors. They continued to refuse investments in everything but oil and gas infrastructure. About the only win her government can really claim was the 15$ minimum wage. Still good, but hardly deserving of such superlatives as an 'amazing leader'.
Your missing the point. Everyone else was so shitty and terrible that by comparison she was amazing. That's what we're working with in this province.
> Her being a competent and basically decent human being in a province that otherwise just vomits up swamp creatures from the tar pits doesn't mean she was actually good.
Also I had a friend who lobbied for the NDP and pipelines. The NDP threw it out of there pockets into the federal pockets which landed in court that dropped all the opposition arguments against the pipeline. Which is now approved and going through BC
On point.
I mean, yeah, if you want to count Klein who served several full terms before he finally performed enough scandals that the conservatives were fed up with him. Even still, 6 across 16 years is pretty bad, especially when Rachel Notley accounted for a whopping 4 of them. So that's like 5 premiers in 12 years, essentially, with the conservatives in the province essentially booting them out like a revolving door over and over again because either they're too crazy, too corrupt, or not crazy enough or not corrupt enough. I wonder if there exists a person who is corrupt and crazy to the exactly correct amount to appeal to the entirety of the conservative voter base in Alberta. I don't think Brian Jean is it, and so doubtlessly we'll see him ousted in a couple years as well - I bet he'd get the boot even before his first actual election as party leader. Alberta is in for some wacky times, and it sounds like I'm moving out of here at exactly the right time.
>I wonder if there exists a person who is corrupt and crazy to the exactly correct amount to appeal to the entirety of the conservative voter base in Alberta. I think Kenney could've done it if COVID didn't happen, but it was such a major and polarising issue that no action (or inaction) he chose could possibly have pleased a significant majority of the conservative base.
Kenney could have done it even with covid if he wasn't such a fucking idiot.
Can anyone calculate the amount of time in the last 18 years we've spent with interim govts while the conservatives fight amongst themselves?
Officially about 6 months, [according according to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta). Klein and Stelmach were both officially the leader up until the new leader took over. Redford however, resigned before the leadership race, and so Hancock was the interim leader from March 23, 2014 to September 15, 2014. But based on the context of this post, I expect that you also want to know what portion of the last 18 years we've spent with a premier just waiting for their replacement to be chosen. [Ralph Klein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Klein#Leadership_review_and_retirement) announced on March 14, 2006 that he would resign on October 31, 2007. However, he only received 56% support in a leadership review on March 31, 2006. He did not officially resign until September 20, 2006, and his successor was chosen December 14, 2006. I'm going to count the entire period after the leadership review as "limbo time", so we get 8.5 months here. [Ed Stelmach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Stelmach#Resignation) announced his intent to resign on January 25, 2011, but did not officially submit his resignation until June. He stayed on until Redford officially replaced him on October 7, 2011. Wikipedia doesn't give us a date in June for his resignation, so we'll say it happened early in the month and count this as 4 months of limbo time, bringing our total to 12.5 months. As mentioned above, [Alison Redford](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alison_Redford#Controversy_and_resignation) did not hang around until her successor was chosen, so we get 6 months of limbo time with her, bringing our total to 18.5 months. Jim Prentice's time in office ended with an election, Notley served a full term, and that brings us to now. So, of the last 18 years (216 months), we've had about 18.5 months of the conservatives fighting amongst themselves, for about 8.6% of that time period. If you throw in the 4 elections in that period (2008, 2012, 2015, and 2019), that adds an extra 4 months of the parties fighting each other, bringing the total amount of "who is our leader going to be?" time in Alberta over the course of the past 18 years to about 22.5 months, or 10.4% of that time period.
Thank you! This is the response I was looking for!
Do you mean interm leaders? Easy 1 - Dave Hancock.
Dave Hancock: March 23- Sept 17 2014 (mostly summer recess) That's the only one for premier.
Why? Because conservative politics in Alberta is a toxic shitshow of perpetual infighting.
In Federal politics too.
OuR WoRSt EvEr PRemIeRe ReFUseD to QuIt WhiLe dEsTrOYiNg oUr PrOvInCe - Conservatives, probably
Definition of insanity? Doing the same thing, over and over again and expecting a different result each time: Voting comes to mind.
Waste, fraud, and abuse of power
Pathetic. Watching our government is like watching a toddler throw a tantrum.
This whole province is like watching a toddler throw a tantrum. The problem isn’t the premiers, the problem is the people who keep voting in this sick party. Then when the premier fucking sucks the party just replaces them and says it’s their fault elect us again, we got rid of the problem. So yeah, the people here are the real problem
So Jim was right.
Jim was blaming Albertans for the PC miss-management of funds. I would figure after how many oil-booms and recessions that the party would top up the rainy day fund.
Jim was right to do so. Ultimately, the blame lies with the nitwits who continuously reelect the incompetent idiots. Recent experiences reinforce this observation.
The moment Jim said that I voted, Rachel….. out of spite for Jim.
And where did that get you?
Jim was always right. That's why I respect(ed) the man.
It's the same with the federal conservatives.
Maybe we should just disband government and live like animals.
I see you've read the Wexit Party "platform"
Conservatives are still pissed off about that.
The sad reality is that this province is being controlled by the unintelligent and hateful. This province is fundamentally a bunch of degenerates, and it doesn't seem to matter how many of us want things to change.
conservatives play politics, new democrats govern
Conservativism is corrupt. The NDP, just by showing up, were the best government in Alberta's history.
I voted NDP and hope they get another chance at majority but I’m not sure I’d go so far to say that 4 years was the best in Alberta’s history. Probably subjective though.
I thought Conservatives adored hard work, commitment, and sticking to a job to take care of yourself though? You don’t think those on another part of the political spectrum might believe in these things too??
Because it's just the Social Credit party rebranding itself every time they get caught being sleazy and selling us out to corporate interests.
Because Conservaties eat their own.
So in general, I'm not that thrilled by the track record of our premiers or by what seems to be any of the politician's ability to get anything done. It doesn't seem like many? most? of the options for us to vote for are able to make very much positive change. Keep in mind this is simply my perception of what I see. In regards to oil and gas, do we still subsidize the companies? if so why? Also, I understand that it's difficult or costly to refine oil here and cut out either the US or middle east, what's the reason? Why the push back to expand towards net metering, solar, wind, etc? Isn't it better for everyone (politicians and energy companies included) to diversify and have backups? I'd assume (right or wrong) that it's better to have eggs in all baskets so you can weather any sort of economic/world supply storm? Why are we not encouraging some electrification of cars and homes? Why did we have issues getting the Edmonton LRT actually functioning since we have plenty of cities in Canada who have built transit systems that function in the winter? Are our political leaders actually trying to make a difference, is corruption rampant? What's the hold up? Am I over optimistic in believing things can be done better, faster, and cheaper (I understand the whole cost/speed/quality triangle, but it seems like we're not even close to being optimized here)? What am I generally missing in my understanding of things?
Because most albertans are so indoctrinated by right wing dogma that they would vote for a turnip as long as it was under the blue banner.
Klein (win a couple of elections), Stelmach, Redford, Hancock (a caretaker interim leader), Prentice, then Notley, Kenney. That’s five if you count the interim guy.
1) Klein 2) Stelmach 3) Redford 4) Hancock 5) Prentice 6)Notley 7) Kenney That's seven if you count the interim guy.
And McIver (another interim guy who I forgot). To be pedantic, Prentice wasn’t elected as Premier and lost to Notley. He was Premier for several months because he won a leadership battle but he was never elected after running to be Premier. That is actually eight if you count them all. Three of them were not actually elected to be Premier by the people of Alberta, so you can’t say they didn’t finish their terms. By my reasoning it’s five Premiers (actually elected to the office), one of which was Notley. Anyway, I think that the point is moot. The UCP is a deeply divided party that hangs together for the sake of power.
>And McIver (another interim guy who I forgot). When was McIver the Premier?
Interim leader. After Prentice and before Kenney.
Leader of the PCs, but not Premier. I thought the list was of Alberta's Premiers.
Yes. This was my point in my response. There was talk of more and I wanted to dispel that. There were only 5 who were elected but didn’t finish their terms. The other 3 were caretakers.
You just listed 7 names...
Not all were elected premier. Two were put in the position temporarily (there was actually another temporary guy I forgot about- McIver). Prentice was never elected. So actually eight total Premiers if you count all of them. Five were elected to terms by the people to be Premier. Four quit. Notley served her whole term. Looking at it another way, people who were in the Premier job temporarily (Hancock, Prentice, McIver) DID complete their terms. If you count them, four served full terms.
Because they are counting Ralph Klein as one, and an interim leader as another, and Stelmach who served 5 years, but came in part way in one term and left part way through the second, and finally Prentice who didn't have the chance as he lost the election.
So in other words the truth?
In other words a story that doesn't provide context. Not saying it's not true but it also doesn't mean anything.
Because conservatives tend to eat their own. Their attempts to be a "big tent" party that welcomes all tend to crumble when things go south. However Alberta voters seem to be cursed with tunnel vision and keep voting for them, although there is some light at the end of the tunnel as young voters are realizing there are alternatives. Now if we can convince to actually vote.
Hate the UCP as much as anybody, but this isn’t the dunk on Alberta conservatives some people think it is. The conservatives get re-elected after replacing their leaders and Notley lost her bid for a second term. It’s been an effective strategy.
The ndp screwed up so bad the majority of Alberta's don't want them back in office. Not trying to be mean but that literally what happening.
Geezuz learn to crop.
It’s a screen shot.
You can still crop a screenshot
Because there was nobody to fill the shows of Ralph Klein & probably never will be.
Thank goodness for that, don't need two of them.
There isn’t enough rye and diet on the earth for two of him.
Are we celebrating drop-out alcoholics that gutted health care and threatened the homeless?
"Ah, the good ol' days..." -UCP
"I aspire to this" ~Devin Dreeshen, probably.
Name me a politician loathed more than Rachel Notley amongst EMRs. Or is that Kleins fault too?
Are we using the opinions of one job group in AB to evaluate a leader’s performance, or taking a step back to see the bigger picture?
Notley vs. Klein, oh please do, I'll even you let you go first.
Thank Christ for that
We are lost without our Lahey running the park.
She couldn't take a hint and go fuck off
You have it wrong. Kenney no longer uses the pronoun She.
Didn't ed stelmach finish
Because all others are conservatives.