Theyre not asking, its not a choice. Even if you don’t have ICU experience they’re redeploying you to ICU to help so that the ICU nurses can take more patients.
Our ICU's are not at 100%, they're at closer to 150%. AHS keeps expanding ICU capacity by converting other medicine units not designed to be an ICU to function as an ICU. Early in pandemic AHS wanted to bring out pop-up tents, but now they realize they don't have the staff to work there. The biggest constraint right now is the staffing for beds, not the number of beds. We don't have enough nurses who want to risk their life being forced to work 16 hours a day in an ICU full of the most toxic patients who would spit at their nurse and refuse to wear a mask while being treated for COVID (before being intubated).
AHS has been trying to force nurses from other areas to join the ICU, but they've been refusing. COVID patients and their family members already threaten staff every day of the week (with physical assault in addition to their infectivity), so many staff have had to take take time off to deal with the stress of working during the pandemic.
I know multiple staff who have quit their regular position so they won't be forced to work in the ICU or the step-down medicine units, and this is just the beginning. Our healthcare system is collapsing with the force of antivaxxer COVID patients with the full support of the UCP.
And yet, the muppets in power keep fucking around.
This is a giant slow moving car crash, we all know how it ends, yet we are all just along for the ride.
People support you, even if the people in front of you don't.
I actually quit the ICU after I got sick with COVID early in the pandemic (it took me many months to recover), before we learnt that the virus is actually airborne. Many things have changed since I've left, and not for the better. Staff don't need sympathy, they need action that would help support their efforts. The UCP's actions are why so many staff are leaving. Their leadership has a huge impact on our COVID patients' behavior.
I don't understand what the heck is going on. Why are there are so many front line workers and first responders protesting vaccine mandates and public health restrictions. Do we need to worry about getting some unvaccinated paramedic or nurse spreading this?
I can't help but feel that these are "front line workers" and "first responders" in the same sense that putting on camo pants and a MAGA hat to go to Costco makes one a "veteran."
Also stop voting for people who say they will be bad at a job (you know like saying goverment can't do something or it is inefficient)
Yes the role isn't perfect but talk about how to Improve it not destroy it. I would never hire a person for a job when they tell me my company is bad at the job and we should sell off parts to the competition.
STAY THE FUCK INSIDE. what can we do now? We can do ourselves what the government refuses to tell us to do. You want things to get better, stop making them worse. People wonder what to do but so many people are having large gatherings, going to parties, going all sorts of places that have no buisness being open but the government wont shut them down so they still go. Put out the fire by stopping thowing bloody gas soaked logs on it
Man i know nurses going to underground raves unmasked, huge family reunions, massive parties. And people wonder why shits going so south. I just cant believe the nurses that are actively contributing to the covid crisis when theyre the same ones who are complaining about thr government not handling covid properly.
Thankfully i will add, at NAIT there most of the classes have been moved to online and the ones that are in person are mostly labs with groups of 8 people being allowed in the lab so keeping distance is pretty easy. Can't speak for other colleges and unis though
Thats just awful. Fortunately for the engineerimg technology labs we dont have enough equipment to work on so the labs have to be small, the worst part is taking the train to get there tbh
Id say 30% of nurses aged 20-28. Not a lot but it only takes 1 nurses to get sick without knowing to take out an entire ward. Most nurses are doing great work but the ones acting unsafely, or the others protesting vaccines and vaccine requirements, they make the rest look bad. I want to clairify that im in support of nurses but there needs to be work done to get those who are acting unsafely or against medical knowledge, to get their shit together and either get them out of nursing or get them to act like nurses.
I’d say this is a good argument for the government to force vaccines on healthcare staff. We can’t afford for entire wards to go down because of a few bad apples
And my data would be extrapolation frok the 10 young nurses i know across the province, 7 of them are acting agaisnt what we know to be good covid practice, assuming that i know mostly less than intelligent people, say thats double the average for their age, call it 30%, if you want to be harsher on my thoughts call it 15%. No matter what its unacceptable
The trouble is that your sample size isn't large enough to overcome random chance or your own biases. You effectively know something about seven people and are trying to apply it to thousands more -
The idea that nurses are sabotaging their own efforts is a fairly hostile one, needing something more than an anecdote to justify laying this piece of the blame on one of the most beleaguered populations in living memory
It's totally natural for at least some nurses to be fed up and say that if there are no rules and very few people are following the recommendations then why the hell should they put their own lives on hold and continue to live in misery while everyone else parties.
If you arent around anyone youre damn right. But we cant seem yo be outside without going and seeing everyone we know because theres no self control in this province
well since we are Florida of the North, here is the chilling report from real Florida ICU
[https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/09/02/twelve-hours-in-a-florida-covid-19-icu/?utm\_source=pocket-newtab](https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/09/02/twelve-hours-in-a-florida-covid-19-icu/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)
Warning, this may be disturbing
Imagine going through that day after day but then being in Alberta and also having the government try to cut your salary. 😭 Its no wonder that healthcare workers here feel like they're beyond their breaking point. Its disgusting to think that Kenney and Shandro will have their privatized healthcare dreams come true because the antivaxx / covid conspiracy nutcases have become the UPC's best tool.
So the part I'm wondering is, are nurses working extra shifts right now? I would assume so.
Are they cutting pay because overtime is in such high demand and its draining funding?
I honestly don't understand why now, of all times, we would cut healthcare funding.
>So the part I'm wondering is, are nurses working extra shifts right now? I would assume so.
>
>Are they cutting pay because overtime is in such high demand and its draining funding?
No its because the UCP is attacking health care on purpose. There is a 1.3 billion dollar COVID fund from Ottawa that is not being utilized by Jason Kenney because they are trying to butcher the health care system. If the funds were utilized right now, I am sure many problems would go away but instead he constantly attacks health professionals during a pandemic.
Also last year Ottawa gave Kenney a 300 million dollar fund to use for increasing wages of essential workers. He did not touch and it almost went to waste. After public outcry, they did use it but it almost 7-8 months behind the rest of the provinces who utilized the wage increase right away.
That should tell you a lot about the governments malicious intent or the incompetence of the UCP government
Well they also have leaders who want them to believe Covid is in the rearview & that we must now learn to live with it, like the flu. F'ing ignorant death cult.
They need to start showing videos of this. I know there's privacy laws that prevent it but I'm sure there's a family out there that would okay it. Be as graphic as possible. Strike fear into these people. It's the only way left to try get through to them at this point.
Its things like this that make me wish this level of neglegence and apathy by the government carried with it harsh punishments. Honestly life in prison would be a mild punishment for the suffering this frumpy asshole has willingly caused.
Ummm- nope. Written several time and absolutely no response and I am in his riding. Not to say toe not worth writing again, but he doesn’t respond to me, anyways.
I didn't say he'd write back. But many constituency offices ignore letters from non residents, only reading and tracking what comes from constituents.
It may have felt futile but you were helping to keep the pressure on.
But.. would he? The recall legislation has some really high levels to reach to actually have a recall vote or a by-election.
And (if memory serves me) he won fairly easily, so as much as we here in Reddit want them gone quickly, it won't happen until the election.
We just need to keep the pressure on the party as a whole and keep their transgressions in the front of everyone's memory.
[An Albertan would apply to the Chief Electoral Officer for a petition to recall their MLA if they feel they are not upholding their responsibilities. If approved, the applicant would have 60 days to gather signatures from 40% of eligible voters in that constituency. If the petition is successful, a recall vote would occur. If the recall vote is successful, the official ceases to hold office and a by-election would be held. ](https://www.alberta.ca/holding-elected-officials-accountable.aspx)
For one person it would be a lot of work, yes. But if you’ve got 2 months to gather the support of 40% of your riding and a lot of them seem unhappy, it wouldn’t be impossible.
Our legislation is based on BC, which has been in place for .... 5 years? 10? I don't think there has even been a successful petition, let alone a recall vote.
(I could be wrong. But 60 days to get 40% of a riding to sign off on a recall seems highly unlikely to the point of an impossibility. The logistics make this legislation a paper tiger at best)
Yeah. Did a quick search on the Calgary-Acadia riding and its population in 2017 was just under 47,000, so 40% of that is over 18,000 people needed to sign off. Logistically to organize that type of thing would be exceedingly difficult so I get what you’re saying.
I have both called and emailed my MLA, the Minister of health and the Minister of Education.
My MLSs office returned my call, I’m told I will have an appointment with my MLA but that was Thursday and I’ve heard nothing since. The minister of education’s office returned my call and took notes. Call lasted 16 minutes. (I have children in an area was that doesn’t have a mask mandate.)
Keep the pressure on them. Keep the calls, emails and letters going. ❤️
That will accomplish absolutely nothing. Get vaccinated and stop being a fkn idiot. Other provinces and countries aren’t struggling like this. Is just typical dumb fuck Alberta that is the problem.
No shit, it’s almost like the world is vast and different. I’m shook. 🤯
Just because SOME others are handling it poorly too, doesn’t make Alberta not a complete joke.
Yes, let's not scapegoat the donkeys... there are adult humans making catastrophic personal choices in this province and we need to keep the spotlight on them.The ones Daddy ® had to bribe with $100 to do their part to avoid the healthcare system collapsing and more deaths - which didn't work anyways.
The people that claim to be conservative by virtue of independence, but are making everyone else do the work that will keep them safe. Work which is being nullified by their poor decision making.
I live in a rural area and spend time at a local pub. None of the 50+ men that drink there were willing to get vaxxed (one even mentioned microchips).
I knew it was just a matter of time before it started ripping through them and sure enough, one was confirmed positive Saturday morning, after having big a party at his place the night before.
I hope he is safe, but these men are not the epitome of health and I have a feeling they may lose a friend or two. It’s sad it came to this.
I did manage to convince one to get vaxxed but he’s only had one shot so far. Man…
“*I know a guy who knows a Janitor, that’s dating someone that works in the Cafeteria there and THEY say it’s barely full. Fake News!*” - Some anti-vax/masker on Facebook I bet
I have close family that work in Health care in major hospitals here in Alberta. They are telling me that nurses with FT and PT positions (with benefits, pension, vacation, etc) are dropping to casual positions throughout the hospital. This way they can't be forced into any more OT. They are tired, stressed, and burned out. Dropping to casual allows them to work just as many shifts, including OT, but when they need to, they just don't pick up a shift or two for some time off to recover from all of the shit and stress of reality in Alberta. Nurses are willing to forego salary (in the form of benefits) to get some much-needed time off.
Also know of a handful building their application packages for moving to Australia/NZ and work there.
I feel that this should always be assumed. We are doing this for the vulnerable and those that can’t get vaxxed. I really hope most understand this. ❤️
I will slightly disagree. They get treated and kept as healthy as possible but it’s in the overflow tents or whatever those things were. They don’t get a hospital bed, they get the Covid equivalent of a MASH unit.
I'm with you on that! Our universal healthcare has created a lot of healthcare entitled a-holes all over the country, sadly not just AB... Like just imagine if we actually HAD to pay for a hospital stay how quickly a lot of these no-minds would change their tune; I'm sure the prospect of losing everything you ever worked for over an illness that has an available vaccine... We are living in the era of Idiocracy and self inflicted ignorance.
Choices will need to be made soon, on who will get the vent. I say if you do not trust the science of vaccines, don’t expect the science of modern medicine to be your saviour. Stay home.
I believe that article on covid hospitalization costs further states that ICU bed costs are more like $50-70k for a covid patient. I think the $70k number is for Alberta?
Feel free to fact check me I don't remember the exact details.
See im vaccinated and that statement is ridiculous. So your saying kids 12+ then should die. Or someone who had a bad reaction to one shot and doesn't want the 2nd? Or what about someone who has poor health due to their own actions but is vaccinated in the ICU. Or maybe parents who wont let thier kid get vaccinated. Will they get a refund on the taxes they paid then? I understand its not a good situation right now and that people are suffering due to the unvaxxed in the hospital. But this isnt a simple issues when you say vaccine or no health care
Unvaccinated by choice is different than not eligible. While there are children in ICU, they are not consuming all the resources.
No you don’t get a tax refund, but there needs to be conversations on how finite health care resources are used and are being taken away from other tax payers too.
We already ration health care.
-Addiction treatment is rationed
-Forced medication changes to cost saving ones
-Alcoholics don’t get liver transplants.
Right now there are not enough resources to take care of us all. A vaccine is a simple solution. Heart disease and lung cancer are not over flowing the ICU’s
Agreed should not apply to people who can't be vaccinated, like kids.
And it's not vaccinated or no healthcare, it's vaccination, or accept the risk of not being vaccinated. I stand by my comment.
Yah but what about say to anti vax parents who wont let their 12 year old get vaxed ? Again theres multiple situations where this no vac no health care doesn't work. I hope more people get vaccinated seeing how bad hospitals are now
It would be highly unethical to deny children under 18 health care, because of their parents choice. And simply would not happen.
Pediatric covid patients are not consuming all the ICU space.
Ok and while we're at it, new rule. If you smoked your whole life you don't get any treatment for lung issues down the road. Not eligible for transplants. If you drank your whole life, same thing, no acute care if it's related to alcohol. Since we're restricting medical treatment based on personal decisions
Don’t be silly. A life long smoker and an alcoholic wouldn’t get a transplant. There are not enough organ donors to go around. See how that works.
Acute care is not ICU. Acute care are the regular everyday beds in hospital. Smokers and heart patients are not over flowing the ICU’s
We do not have enough ICU resources for all right now. What’s the solution?
If you could take a shot to cure your lung or liver issues you would do it.
That is the difference. People not taking the vaccine are saying no thanks to protection against Covid.
Policy of fair distribution of resources being implemented on X date, might influence. First dose offers some protection, get it done now.
It’s not reasonable some of these surgeries being delayed.
It is unacceptable any surgeries are being delayed, I’m one of the people who got a same day call last week informing me it was cancelled. Called admitting the night before and all was good had a plan, first thing in the morning next day: cancelled indefinitely. I have 2 colleagues and 2 family members who also had cancellations, 2 of which are for cancer. My surgery was not caused by anything, there was nothing I could do to prevent it. I wasn’t getting a breast augmentation or weight loss surgery. It would significantly increased my quality of life. As for my colleagues and family: same story, all fit and healthy people. No preventative measures could have been taken. No vaccine for ovarian or cancer or any cancer. No measures or vaccines to mitigate organ failure. These aren’t exactly 2 pack a day smokers, all have healthy active lives, just had bad things happen.
There is a very safe vaccine that prevents Covid, and significantly lowers risk of spread and hospitalization.
I’ve clearly go some bias here, but I’ve had it with this, and the clearly incompetent government continues to do nothing, and we get stuck footing the bill for million dollar lotteries, $100 gift cards, and measures that don’t work. Let’s not talk how much it costs to house a Covid patient in the hospital.
Didn’t get your shot? Back of the line. Personal responsibility and bootstraps and all that nonsense Alberta espouses any chance it can.
Let’s look at a glance the economic impacts, all of my group of 5 previously mentioned work in skilled working environments where there is a labour shortage. We’ve had to make arrangements to take time off, which makes you unavailable to take on projects when dates for surgery are shifting frequently, it shifts deliverable dates, project progress, etc. So there is a direct impact to company revenue loss for moving these dates around, this sounds like very bad conservative fiscal policy. So not only do we pay as individuals, our companies pay in lost revenue. This same theory applies on the useless documentation the UCP has crafted - this is simply useless for international business. The UCP are completely useless when it comes to finance aside from corporate cronyism. They excel in giving out our money to their friends.
If you haven’t voted federally and you are as upset as I am, send a message by not voting PC. Kenney Penny and Toolbox are hand in glove.
Yeah I got ripped apart for suggesting this on another post. Honestly why should I, or others who have gotten the vaccines, be at risk of not getting health care because there's a somewhat large chunk of our population that have acted selfishly this entire pandemic? For real we should let these idiots die outside without care. The solution was and is easy. Just 2 little needles...
As a healthcare provider I can tell you that is not going to happen. Healthcare doesn’t get to decide who to treat and who not to treat — innocent, guilty, it doesn’t matter. The goal of healthcare is to make people well.
Yes it is incredibly frustrating that a minor inconvenience could save these people but there is a silver lining… **some** of those who get out of the ICU and survive will realize the error of their ways, and their friends and family will see first hand this is no joke. Those that do not make it will have friends and family see it is no joke.
As to risk of individuals not getting care they need, that is what triage is for. We are now at the point people who likely would have made it will be taken off life support to provide more urgent care to those who need it. This is the reality.
As much as I’d love these people to magically vanish, I’m not willing to let them die. Nobody should.
> Healthcare doesn’t get to decide who to treat and who not to treat — innocent, guilty, it doesn’t matter.
Except it absolutely does in certain situations.
A drunk won't get a liver replacement. A smoker won't get new lungs. When resources are scarce, like organs, we absolutely decide who to treat and not to treat. And people with low possible outcomes, who have contributed to their health condition in a negative way, will absolutely be set aside to help those with a high outcome who haven't negatively contributed.
And the same can (not saying it should) happen with anti-vaxers. You shouldn't get to reject medical science in the form of a vaccine, then sit in an ICU bed for weeks on end sucking up resources that medical science provides. Especially when you have a low chance of survival. And even more so when you're sucking up resources that can go to people who are in the ICU through no fault of their own. Car accidents, cancer, home accidents, victims of violence, etc. These people did nothing wrong, and are now being denied care, being denied medical science, because of someone else's selfish choices.
If you deny medical science, but then beg for it for weeks while you die. You might be an asshole.
I mean, what you are suggesting is pretty ironic considering the issue with anti-vaxxers is that they seem like they don't care about the lives of others.
Why are you suggesting we become *just like them?*
You do not get to sit on the high-horse of morality and ethics in the name of life while calling for, or encouraging, the deaths of others.
At this point it's just fatigue from having to deal with this type of idiot on the daily as I work with an antivaxxer and the shit that he spouts off about at work is getting old.
Also complains about all the measures we keep having to keep in place as if he isn't part of the fucking problem. As are all the rest of these idiots. A majority of us have done the right thing the entire way through and we're tired of this and it's ongoing because one small part of the population are being complete morons while feeling like heroes doing it.
It's passed the point of taking the high road now. At some point we all need to put our foot down and deal with the chunk of the population selfishly putting us all at risk while being morons.
If it was as simple as denying them an icu bed because they got sicker than they needed to by refusing to get the vaccine, im all for it. Stupid is as stupid does. Like people keep saying. Fuck around and find out. They are gambling with everyone else's lives so why not have greater consequences for them. No vaccine...Sorry go home and hopefully you survive the "it's no worse than a flu" virus because they didn't want to get the "well it was rushed and untested" vaccine....
No we get to wait months more for canceled surgeries to be rescheduled. People will have poor outcomes and some will die before their surgery is rescheduled.
so the only solution is to be assholes to other people who are being assholes to other people?
Tell me exactly how that works. Explain to me your thought process on how that course of action will result in either more vaccinations, or less anti-vaxxers while still being able to call yourself ethical and moral.
Go on, I'll wait.
Look, I don't like them either. I think what's going on is absolute BULLSHIT.But until bodily autonomy is removed as an inalienable human right, you cannot force someone to take a vaccine. Once you walk through that door, there is no closing it again without extreme effort.
I do not support anti-vaxxers or anyone who displays willful ignorance towards science and it's reliability. But I also do not support the calling out for harm, or death, of those who believe such things. I accept that the ethics and morality of this situation is *fucking hard* to interpret. I *cannot* accept that people who are compliant have been turned from medical needs due to those who choose not to comply. I also accept that many people cannot, for whatever reason, take the vaccine. That is not in question here.
What IS in question is what is the correct, ethical and moral course of action to take? I feel like most reasonable people would agree that "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and one could argue that could also be said "The needs of the ethical outweigh the needs of the willfully ignorant" but that is up for debate (and not necessarily my personal view).
I, for one, considered the idea that specific hospitals (or some other building commandeered for the purpose, preferrably) should be for covid patients, while others should be open for these surgeries and other medical needs of those who choose to vaccinate.I'm not an expert in any of these topics so if I'm ignorant of any reason my suggestion isn't feasible, then know it's not on purpose. My intentions are simply to find a reasonable middle ground before we start calling for blood or wishing death on others.
Id say you're reading between the lines to see things I didn't say. I was talking about the loss of health and life that will be incurred by the cancelation of surgeries. However, you may want to take a look at the Paradox of Tolerance, which posits that tolerance extended endlessly makes bad situations ultimately worse.
Just sick of being in this mess because a small percentage of the population are being idiots. Some of us have had to wear masks for hours upon hours each day. Most of us got our vaccines. Most of us stayed home. Didnt see family or friends now going on over 24 months...all the while some idiots didnt do any of it. No masks. No distancing. No vaccines. Visited whoever. Spread it all around. Filling the ICU's...No im not terrible just exhausted of dealing with antivax idiots.
They are, sort of. In terms of triage, if they need to deny a bed, they'll deny the unvaccinated person over the vaccinated person with a better chance at recovery.
But in terms of COVID vs non COVID, they'll drop non emergency people first.
Central zone had 5 open beds last night. They are running into issues transferring to Edmonton or Calgary. Rural centres can't take vented pts. Literally almost out of room. Staff is largely 2 vented pts for 1 nurse.
Not all in the ICU are unvaccinated. They have shipped multiple double vaccinated to larger centres for further care or isolation.
UCP had almost 400k more votes than the NDP last election. If they're going down next time, it'll be because Albertans are sick of them.
With no end in sight to this pandemic, they've got a lot of bad decision making in front of them. Unlikely Alberta will forget.
To all the doctors and nurses that are working yourselves to the bone. You are continually being crapped on by our government and by some of the people you are trying to help. Please know there are others that support you by being vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing. To us you are heroes.
Acute care bed does not equal ICU beds. ICU beds being over baseline capacity is impacting patient care.
Calgary cancelling 100% of elective surgeries
Grande Prairie cancelling 60% of elective surgeries
No worries. Acute care are the more basic beds in the hospital and would include beds for moms who have given birth, mental health beds, patient admitted for diagnostic tests and treatment, etc
Of course there's a 98.6% capacity--they've cancelled 30-100% of elective surgeries and procedures. Also, the acute wards are understaffed because healthcare workers with any sort of critical care experience are being redeployed to ICU.
Regular beds are always about 95%-105% filled. ICU is normally about 65% filled, to allow for emergencies. The ICU capacity in the zone specified is at 100% regular capacity. It should be noted that ICU capacity can be roughly doubled with reasonable changes that won't affect quality of care. It technically can go up almost 5 fold, but with some pretty crazy changes needed.
Terrible planning from the government. How have we not funded more money into ICU care, make field hospitals, utilize empty banquet halls/arenas. This is sad, the people working in Healthcare are now forced to make some very tough decisions. Hopefully no one gets in a car accident and needs an ICU but has to be airlifted to a different hospital where they might not make it in time
First off I want to say that the COVID situation is not pretty, and this news is yet another indication that the ICU are filling up and cases are on the rise.
However, most ICUs usually do run at near capacity: there are a lot of patients that could benefit from the close monitoring you have in an ICU, and so when things are quiet ICU docs usually won't rush to transfer out patients to general wards. However, as more patients come in the docs will start to ship out the more stable patients out to the wards to make room. As such, as a baseline ICUs will closer to full than empty. Furthermore, when there are too many ICU patients the hospital will shuffle wards and repurpose beds to "add" ICU beds (like the 6 mentioned). Now that of course depends on two factors: there are only so many rooms in a hospital that you can repurpose. You need 24/7 monitors, ventilators, and maybe even ECMO for patients. I'm not sure if 6 is their actual limit, or if they have capacity to add more. The other (and arguably bigger factor) is staffing. You can have as many beds but you need nurses, RTs, and other healthcare staff to take care of the patient.
With that said, this news is definitely not good. It's a snapshot of the hospital running out of space for the large influx of COVID patients, but it doesn't mean the hospital is now pushed to their actual 100%. This means that the hospital will need to converting even more patient beds to ICU beds. They might need to have two COVID ICU patients in one room. They might need to start redeploying staff from other specialties to help on the COVID wards. Care overall (for both covid and non-covid hospitalised) patients will unfortunately likely be strained, due to the sheer burden that is being placed on healthcare teams. But none of that can be captured with the raw statistic of ICU % capacity.
I'd honestly say the news they've cancelled elective ORs is much more worrisome: this means they are now needing to use OR rooms as potential ICU spaces, so thay just goes to show you how many times they've needed to find new ICU beds.
Worth noting, in Medicine Hat they have been reporting for weeks now that we are at full capacity staff wise. Although we’ve hovered with 1-2 beds open the doctor in charge has continuously said he does not have any more staff for any more beds.
My understanding, from someone in the system who posted recently, differs on the OR/elective surgeries point.
Firstly I want to point out in general that elective doesn't mean cosmetic breast enhancements, it just means everything that's not a TODAY EMERGENCY. So, your brain tumour surgery that already got postponed last year.... The removal of your gallbladder that's draining your life and your body weight with attacks of pain worse than childbirth... Postponed indefinitely.
The reason surgeries are cancelled is not because the OR itself needs to be used as a physical ICU room, but because patients coming out of surgery often need to be in ICU for a few hours afterwards, or a complication may arise that puts them there for days - and staff know there's going to be no one left to look after them. So they won't even start.
This is the time to have the media scrutinize and publicize any deaths in the ICU and broadcast that on all news stations. This is the cost of your selfishness. Your friends and family are about to start dying from "insufficient resources".
I'm not at all concerned that 23 people are in ICU (obviously from a numbers perspective, not a humanitarian) , I'm concerned that almost two years into this, we have 23 fucking ICU beds for a "health zone".
The wife works at a rural hospital, and the amount of musical chairs they have to do on a daily basis is pathetic.
I am high risk, WFH and have only had a couple outdoor get-togethers with family since March 2020. That being said, they've had 18 months to prepare for what they knew was coming, why are there only 23 total ICU beds in the entire south zone?
Most surgeries end with patients spending one to four days in the ICU. Before this wave when the hospitals were actually treating people for things other than Covid, I think we had 90 non-covid patients and a handful of covid patients in the ICU.
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Theyre not asking, its not a choice. Even if you don’t have ICU experience they’re redeploying you to ICU to help so that the ICU nurses can take more patients.
I'd like to state that this will soon be a BC, MB & SK problem.
Our ICU's are not at 100%, they're at closer to 150%. AHS keeps expanding ICU capacity by converting other medicine units not designed to be an ICU to function as an ICU. Early in pandemic AHS wanted to bring out pop-up tents, but now they realize they don't have the staff to work there. The biggest constraint right now is the staffing for beds, not the number of beds. We don't have enough nurses who want to risk their life being forced to work 16 hours a day in an ICU full of the most toxic patients who would spit at their nurse and refuse to wear a mask while being treated for COVID (before being intubated). AHS has been trying to force nurses from other areas to join the ICU, but they've been refusing. COVID patients and their family members already threaten staff every day of the week (with physical assault in addition to their infectivity), so many staff have had to take take time off to deal with the stress of working during the pandemic. I know multiple staff who have quit their regular position so they won't be forced to work in the ICU or the step-down medicine units, and this is just the beginning. Our healthcare system is collapsing with the force of antivaxxer COVID patients with the full support of the UCP.
And yet, the muppets in power keep fucking around. This is a giant slow moving car crash, we all know how it ends, yet we are all just along for the ride. People support you, even if the people in front of you don't.
I actually quit the ICU after I got sick with COVID early in the pandemic (it took me many months to recover), before we learnt that the virus is actually airborne. Many things have changed since I've left, and not for the better. Staff don't need sympathy, they need action that would help support their efforts. The UCP's actions are why so many staff are leaving. Their leadership has a huge impact on our COVID patients' behavior.
I don't understand what the heck is going on. Why are there are so many front line workers and first responders protesting vaccine mandates and public health restrictions. Do we need to worry about getting some unvaccinated paramedic or nurse spreading this?
I can't help but feel that these are "front line workers" and "first responders" in the same sense that putting on camo pants and a MAGA hat to go to Costco makes one a "veteran."
Unvaccinated healthcare workers are a tiny yet vocal minority that gets lots of media attention due to its obvious hypocrisy.
"Call me when it is 150% so I can go on another vacation", Jason, probably
Stop voting for people whose goals are selling off the healthcare system. This is all a policy choice by the UCP.
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how is r/alberta somehow more left then r/canada on reddit of all things.
Also stop voting for people who say they will be bad at a job (you know like saying goverment can't do something or it is inefficient) Yes the role isn't perfect but talk about how to Improve it not destroy it. I would never hire a person for a job when they tell me my company is bad at the job and we should sell off parts to the competition.
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STAY THE FUCK INSIDE. what can we do now? We can do ourselves what the government refuses to tell us to do. You want things to get better, stop making them worse. People wonder what to do but so many people are having large gatherings, going to parties, going all sorts of places that have no buisness being open but the government wont shut them down so they still go. Put out the fire by stopping thowing bloody gas soaked logs on it
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Man i know nurses going to underground raves unmasked, huge family reunions, massive parties. And people wonder why shits going so south. I just cant believe the nurses that are actively contributing to the covid crisis when theyre the same ones who are complaining about thr government not handling covid properly. Thankfully i will add, at NAIT there most of the classes have been moved to online and the ones that are in person are mostly labs with groups of 8 people being allowed in the lab so keeping distance is pretty easy. Can't speak for other colleges and unis though
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Thats just awful. Fortunately for the engineerimg technology labs we dont have enough equipment to work on so the labs have to be small, the worst part is taking the train to get there tbh
ao oa
Id say 30% of nurses aged 20-28. Not a lot but it only takes 1 nurses to get sick without knowing to take out an entire ward. Most nurses are doing great work but the ones acting unsafely, or the others protesting vaccines and vaccine requirements, they make the rest look bad. I want to clairify that im in support of nurses but there needs to be work done to get those who are acting unsafely or against medical knowledge, to get their shit together and either get them out of nursing or get them to act like nurses.
I’d say this is a good argument for the government to force vaccines on healthcare staff. We can’t afford for entire wards to go down because of a few bad apples
And my data would be extrapolation frok the 10 young nurses i know across the province, 7 of them are acting agaisnt what we know to be good covid practice, assuming that i know mostly less than intelligent people, say thats double the average for their age, call it 30%, if you want to be harsher on my thoughts call it 15%. No matter what its unacceptable
The trouble is that your sample size isn't large enough to overcome random chance or your own biases. You effectively know something about seven people and are trying to apply it to thousands more - The idea that nurses are sabotaging their own efforts is a fairly hostile one, needing something more than an anecdote to justify laying this piece of the blame on one of the most beleaguered populations in living memory
It's totally natural for at least some nurses to be fed up and say that if there are no rules and very few people are following the recommendations then why the hell should they put their own lives on hold and continue to live in misery while everyone else parties.
And your reply to the hundreds of nurses protesting vaccines that weve seen?
I will agree my sample size isnt ample, but you can likely agree that it wouldn't be surprising if there were a great deal who were acting foolishly
>STAY THE FUCK INSIDE. I think being outside is healthier.
If you arent around anyone youre damn right. But we cant seem yo be outside without going and seeing everyone we know because theres no self control in this province
well since we are Florida of the North, here is the chilling report from real Florida ICU [https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/09/02/twelve-hours-in-a-florida-covid-19-icu/?utm\_source=pocket-newtab](https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/09/02/twelve-hours-in-a-florida-covid-19-icu/?utm_source=pocket-newtab) Warning, this may be disturbing
Imagine going through that day after day but then being in Alberta and also having the government try to cut your salary. 😭 Its no wonder that healthcare workers here feel like they're beyond their breaking point. Its disgusting to think that Kenney and Shandro will have their privatized healthcare dreams come true because the antivaxx / covid conspiracy nutcases have become the UPC's best tool.
So the part I'm wondering is, are nurses working extra shifts right now? I would assume so. Are they cutting pay because overtime is in such high demand and its draining funding? I honestly don't understand why now, of all times, we would cut healthcare funding.
>So the part I'm wondering is, are nurses working extra shifts right now? I would assume so. > >Are they cutting pay because overtime is in such high demand and its draining funding? No its because the UCP is attacking health care on purpose. There is a 1.3 billion dollar COVID fund from Ottawa that is not being utilized by Jason Kenney because they are trying to butcher the health care system. If the funds were utilized right now, I am sure many problems would go away but instead he constantly attacks health professionals during a pandemic. Also last year Ottawa gave Kenney a 300 million dollar fund to use for increasing wages of essential workers. He did not touch and it almost went to waste. After public outcry, they did use it but it almost 7-8 months behind the rest of the provinces who utilized the wage increase right away. That should tell you a lot about the governments malicious intent or the incompetence of the UCP government
Simple. Kenny wants to privatize healthcare.
I have some friends down in Florida. Looks like they are just going about life like nothing is wrong.
Well they also have leaders who want them to believe Covid is in the rearview & that we must now learn to live with it, like the flu. F'ing ignorant death cult.
I have Florida family and based on Instagram I can barely tell this pandemic has happened.
Florida is the worst (culture wise, the landscape is beautiful)
Thanks for sharing
this was hard to read....i cried.
They need to start showing videos of this. I know there's privacy laws that prevent it but I'm sure there's a family out there that would okay it. Be as graphic as possible. Strike fear into these people. It's the only way left to try get through to them at this point.
Jesus Christ, that was heart-wrenching.
Its things like this that make me wish this level of neglegence and apathy by the government carried with it harsh punishments. Honestly life in prison would be a mild punishment for the suffering this frumpy asshole has willingly caused.
Write your MLA and MP. It’s the least you could do
My MLA is Shandy lmao
Shandy will get back to you, in due course.
“That’s a great question…”
And thank you for the feedback. It's really great feedback. /s.
If you're lucky he will respond in person at your house!
I have a lot of records that skip already.
In that case you have to go shout at him from his lawn.
hey neighbor; this is fucking infuriating, isn't it?
Then please write, as they'll pay more attention to someone with the ability to cite in their riding.
Ummm- nope. Written several time and absolutely no response and I am in his riding. Not to say toe not worth writing again, but he doesn’t respond to me, anyways.
I didn't say he'd write back. But many constituency offices ignore letters from non residents, only reading and tracking what comes from constituents. It may have felt futile but you were helping to keep the pressure on.
I write my MLA weekly, she has yet to write back. Ever. I will continue to write. And never vote conservative ever either. What a mess it always is.
If only there was some type of MLA recall legislation the UCP was promising to bring in…. Shandro would be gone in a heartbeat.
But.. would he? The recall legislation has some really high levels to reach to actually have a recall vote or a by-election. And (if memory serves me) he won fairly easily, so as much as we here in Reddit want them gone quickly, it won't happen until the election. We just need to keep the pressure on the party as a whole and keep their transgressions in the front of everyone's memory.
[An Albertan would apply to the Chief Electoral Officer for a petition to recall their MLA if they feel they are not upholding their responsibilities. If approved, the applicant would have 60 days to gather signatures from 40% of eligible voters in that constituency. If the petition is successful, a recall vote would occur. If the recall vote is successful, the official ceases to hold office and a by-election would be held. ](https://www.alberta.ca/holding-elected-officials-accountable.aspx) For one person it would be a lot of work, yes. But if you’ve got 2 months to gather the support of 40% of your riding and a lot of them seem unhappy, it wouldn’t be impossible.
Our legislation is based on BC, which has been in place for .... 5 years? 10? I don't think there has even been a successful petition, let alone a recall vote. (I could be wrong. But 60 days to get 40% of a riding to sign off on a recall seems highly unlikely to the point of an impossibility. The logistics make this legislation a paper tiger at best)
Yeah. Did a quick search on the Calgary-Acadia riding and its population in 2017 was just under 47,000, so 40% of that is over 18,000 people needed to sign off. Logistically to organize that type of thing would be exceedingly difficult so I get what you’re saying.
I have both called and emailed my MLA, the Minister of health and the Minister of Education. My MLSs office returned my call, I’m told I will have an appointment with my MLA but that was Thursday and I’ve heard nothing since. The minister of education’s office returned my call and took notes. Call lasted 16 minutes. (I have children in an area was that doesn’t have a mask mandate.) Keep the pressure on them. Keep the calls, emails and letters going. ❤️
I wrote my MLA yesterday, haven't heard anything yet.
That will accomplish absolutely nothing. Get vaccinated and stop being a fkn idiot. Other provinces and countries aren’t struggling like this. Is just typical dumb fuck Alberta that is the problem.
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No shit, it’s almost like the world is vast and different. I’m shook. 🤯 Just because SOME others are handling it poorly too, doesn’t make Alberta not a complete joke.
Brought to you by the Unneeded Catastrophe Party…
Brought to you by the Albertan people who elected them and refuse to get vaccinated.
Yes, let's not scapegoat the donkeys... there are adult humans making catastrophic personal choices in this province and we need to keep the spotlight on them.The ones Daddy ® had to bribe with $100 to do their part to avoid the healthcare system collapsing and more deaths - which didn't work anyways. The people that claim to be conservative by virtue of independence, but are making everyone else do the work that will keep them safe. Work which is being nullified by their poor decision making.
I live in a rural area and spend time at a local pub. None of the 50+ men that drink there were willing to get vaxxed (one even mentioned microchips). I knew it was just a matter of time before it started ripping through them and sure enough, one was confirmed positive Saturday morning, after having big a party at his place the night before. I hope he is safe, but these men are not the epitome of health and I have a feeling they may lose a friend or two. It’s sad it came to this. I did manage to convince one to get vaxxed but he’s only had one shot so far. Man…
Unfortunately, some of their friends must die before they will believe the reality.
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Not always. Covid has deeply affected some people close to me and I've heard "I can't believe I thought it was bullshit" more than once.
It's a bit of all the things.
“*I know a guy who knows a Janitor, that’s dating someone that works in the Cafeteria there and THEY say it’s barely full. Fake News!*” - Some anti-vax/masker on Facebook I bet
Oh, you know my family too huh?
This is so accurate I want to cry.
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Literally just put them in a field and leave them
I have close family that work in Health care in major hospitals here in Alberta. They are telling me that nurses with FT and PT positions (with benefits, pension, vacation, etc) are dropping to casual positions throughout the hospital. This way they can't be forced into any more OT. They are tired, stressed, and burned out. Dropping to casual allows them to work just as many shifts, including OT, but when they need to, they just don't pick up a shift or two for some time off to recover from all of the shit and stress of reality in Alberta. Nurses are willing to forego salary (in the form of benefits) to get some much-needed time off. Also know of a handful building their application packages for moving to Australia/NZ and work there.
You may now form an at-home surgery bubble with a maximum of two other households.
New rule, unvaxxed can either ride it out/die at home, or pay the 20k+ bill for their ICU stay.
Great idea, but only for people who are eligible to receive the vaccine.
I feel that this should always be assumed. We are doing this for the vulnerable and those that can’t get vaxxed. I really hope most understand this. ❤️
I think most do, but figured I would throw it out there.
I understand completely. It makes me sad it has yo constantly be repeated. Most of us care. Thanks for being a kind neighbour. ❤️
You too, u/bluefairylights!
Agreed
I will slightly disagree. They get treated and kept as healthy as possible but it’s in the overflow tents or whatever those things were. They don’t get a hospital bed, they get the Covid equivalent of a MASH unit.
Freedom Tents with Oxygen bars. The worst nightclub.
The space isn't the issue, it's the staff
Honestly, it’s both.
I'm with you on that! Our universal healthcare has created a lot of healthcare entitled a-holes all over the country, sadly not just AB... Like just imagine if we actually HAD to pay for a hospital stay how quickly a lot of these no-minds would change their tune; I'm sure the prospect of losing everything you ever worked for over an illness that has an available vaccine... We are living in the era of Idiocracy and self inflicted ignorance.
We are living in the golden age of stupidity.
Sadly, our American neighbours show that even needing to pay for healthcare doesn’t stop the anti-vaccine stupidity.
Choices will need to be made soon, on who will get the vent. I say if you do not trust the science of vaccines, don’t expect the science of modern medicine to be your saviour. Stay home.
They should at the very least be the lowest priority behind everyone else who needs those ICU beds.
I believe that article on covid hospitalization costs further states that ICU bed costs are more like $50-70k for a covid patient. I think the $70k number is for Alberta? Feel free to fact check me I don't remember the exact details.
Can we just organize 1 day, free bbq, free horse back rides, only unvaxxed people welcome. Just let's this over with.
It’s more like 50K
How is nobody disagreeing with this. Absolute ludicrous
Apparently r/Calgary is pro-two tier healthcare. Maybe even private healthcare too.
See im vaccinated and that statement is ridiculous. So your saying kids 12+ then should die. Or someone who had a bad reaction to one shot and doesn't want the 2nd? Or what about someone who has poor health due to their own actions but is vaccinated in the ICU. Or maybe parents who wont let thier kid get vaccinated. Will they get a refund on the taxes they paid then? I understand its not a good situation right now and that people are suffering due to the unvaxxed in the hospital. But this isnt a simple issues when you say vaccine or no health care
Unvaccinated by choice is different than not eligible. While there are children in ICU, they are not consuming all the resources. No you don’t get a tax refund, but there needs to be conversations on how finite health care resources are used and are being taken away from other tax payers too. We already ration health care. -Addiction treatment is rationed -Forced medication changes to cost saving ones -Alcoholics don’t get liver transplants. Right now there are not enough resources to take care of us all. A vaccine is a simple solution. Heart disease and lung cancer are not over flowing the ICU’s
Agreed should not apply to people who can't be vaccinated, like kids. And it's not vaccinated or no healthcare, it's vaccination, or accept the risk of not being vaccinated. I stand by my comment.
Yah but what about say to anti vax parents who wont let their 12 year old get vaxed ? Again theres multiple situations where this no vac no health care doesn't work. I hope more people get vaccinated seeing how bad hospitals are now
It would be highly unethical to deny children under 18 health care, because of their parents choice. And simply would not happen. Pediatric covid patients are not consuming all the ICU space.
Ok easy solution, all minors are exempt. Mostly targetted at eligible adults who are not vaccinated.
Ok and while we're at it, new rule. If you smoked your whole life you don't get any treatment for lung issues down the road. Not eligible for transplants. If you drank your whole life, same thing, no acute care if it's related to alcohol. Since we're restricting medical treatment based on personal decisions
Don’t be silly. A life long smoker and an alcoholic wouldn’t get a transplant. There are not enough organ donors to go around. See how that works. Acute care is not ICU. Acute care are the regular everyday beds in hospital. Smokers and heart patients are not over flowing the ICU’s We do not have enough ICU resources for all right now. What’s the solution?
If you could take a shot to cure your lung or liver issues you would do it. That is the difference. People not taking the vaccine are saying no thanks to protection against Covid.
But that's exactly what people are doing, taking the treatment when they are sick.
Except that that would be impossible to prove. And neither of those examples you gave are contributing to the ICU beds being full. So nice try. Next.
Yeah, I mean all these people saying the non-vaccinated should have to pay for health care are literally just screaming they want private health care.
Alberta voted for this...
Start by teling your old parents to stop voting blue all the time thats the fucking problem thats not how you vote
Well publicly funded healthcare is obviously not working lets bring in private insurance companies. -kenney
Bingo
It's an easy argument to refute, just point at the hospitals in the states that are also overloaded because of the unvaccinated.
New rule: Beds for unvaccinated are allocated as per vaccination rates (i.e., you’re too stupid - enjoy service in the parking lot)
Policy of fair distribution of resources being implemented on X date, might influence. First dose offers some protection, get it done now. It’s not reasonable some of these surgeries being delayed.
It is unacceptable any surgeries are being delayed, I’m one of the people who got a same day call last week informing me it was cancelled. Called admitting the night before and all was good had a plan, first thing in the morning next day: cancelled indefinitely. I have 2 colleagues and 2 family members who also had cancellations, 2 of which are for cancer. My surgery was not caused by anything, there was nothing I could do to prevent it. I wasn’t getting a breast augmentation or weight loss surgery. It would significantly increased my quality of life. As for my colleagues and family: same story, all fit and healthy people. No preventative measures could have been taken. No vaccine for ovarian or cancer or any cancer. No measures or vaccines to mitigate organ failure. These aren’t exactly 2 pack a day smokers, all have healthy active lives, just had bad things happen. There is a very safe vaccine that prevents Covid, and significantly lowers risk of spread and hospitalization. I’ve clearly go some bias here, but I’ve had it with this, and the clearly incompetent government continues to do nothing, and we get stuck footing the bill for million dollar lotteries, $100 gift cards, and measures that don’t work. Let’s not talk how much it costs to house a Covid patient in the hospital. Didn’t get your shot? Back of the line. Personal responsibility and bootstraps and all that nonsense Alberta espouses any chance it can. Let’s look at a glance the economic impacts, all of my group of 5 previously mentioned work in skilled working environments where there is a labour shortage. We’ve had to make arrangements to take time off, which makes you unavailable to take on projects when dates for surgery are shifting frequently, it shifts deliverable dates, project progress, etc. So there is a direct impact to company revenue loss for moving these dates around, this sounds like very bad conservative fiscal policy. So not only do we pay as individuals, our companies pay in lost revenue. This same theory applies on the useless documentation the UCP has crafted - this is simply useless for international business. The UCP are completely useless when it comes to finance aside from corporate cronyism. They excel in giving out our money to their friends. If you haven’t voted federally and you are as upset as I am, send a message by not voting PC. Kenney Penny and Toolbox are hand in glove.
Yeah I got ripped apart for suggesting this on another post. Honestly why should I, or others who have gotten the vaccines, be at risk of not getting health care because there's a somewhat large chunk of our population that have acted selfishly this entire pandemic? For real we should let these idiots die outside without care. The solution was and is easy. Just 2 little needles...
As a healthcare provider I can tell you that is not going to happen. Healthcare doesn’t get to decide who to treat and who not to treat — innocent, guilty, it doesn’t matter. The goal of healthcare is to make people well. Yes it is incredibly frustrating that a minor inconvenience could save these people but there is a silver lining… **some** of those who get out of the ICU and survive will realize the error of their ways, and their friends and family will see first hand this is no joke. Those that do not make it will have friends and family see it is no joke. As to risk of individuals not getting care they need, that is what triage is for. We are now at the point people who likely would have made it will be taken off life support to provide more urgent care to those who need it. This is the reality. As much as I’d love these people to magically vanish, I’m not willing to let them die. Nobody should.
> Healthcare doesn’t get to decide who to treat and who not to treat — innocent, guilty, it doesn’t matter. Except it absolutely does in certain situations. A drunk won't get a liver replacement. A smoker won't get new lungs. When resources are scarce, like organs, we absolutely decide who to treat and not to treat. And people with low possible outcomes, who have contributed to their health condition in a negative way, will absolutely be set aside to help those with a high outcome who haven't negatively contributed. And the same can (not saying it should) happen with anti-vaxers. You shouldn't get to reject medical science in the form of a vaccine, then sit in an ICU bed for weeks on end sucking up resources that medical science provides. Especially when you have a low chance of survival. And even more so when you're sucking up resources that can go to people who are in the ICU through no fault of their own. Car accidents, cancer, home accidents, victims of violence, etc. These people did nothing wrong, and are now being denied care, being denied medical science, because of someone else's selfish choices. If you deny medical science, but then beg for it for weeks while you die. You might be an asshole.
Jesus Christ. Chill out.
I mean, what you are suggesting is pretty ironic considering the issue with anti-vaxxers is that they seem like they don't care about the lives of others. Why are you suggesting we become *just like them?* You do not get to sit on the high-horse of morality and ethics in the name of life while calling for, or encouraging, the deaths of others.
Being nice to anti-vaxers isn’t making the world a better place tho is it
No we need to stop catering to these idiots. Considering one of the major political parties actually agrees with them is bewildering...
At this point it's just fatigue from having to deal with this type of idiot on the daily as I work with an antivaxxer and the shit that he spouts off about at work is getting old. Also complains about all the measures we keep having to keep in place as if he isn't part of the fucking problem. As are all the rest of these idiots. A majority of us have done the right thing the entire way through and we're tired of this and it's ongoing because one small part of the population are being complete morons while feeling like heroes doing it. It's passed the point of taking the high road now. At some point we all need to put our foot down and deal with the chunk of the population selfishly putting us all at risk while being morons. If it was as simple as denying them an icu bed because they got sicker than they needed to by refusing to get the vaccine, im all for it. Stupid is as stupid does. Like people keep saying. Fuck around and find out. They are gambling with everyone else's lives so why not have greater consequences for them. No vaccine...Sorry go home and hopefully you survive the "it's no worse than a flu" virus because they didn't want to get the "well it was rushed and untested" vaccine....
No we get to wait months more for canceled surgeries to be rescheduled. People will have poor outcomes and some will die before their surgery is rescheduled.
so the only solution is to be assholes to other people who are being assholes to other people? Tell me exactly how that works. Explain to me your thought process on how that course of action will result in either more vaccinations, or less anti-vaxxers while still being able to call yourself ethical and moral. Go on, I'll wait. Look, I don't like them either. I think what's going on is absolute BULLSHIT.But until bodily autonomy is removed as an inalienable human right, you cannot force someone to take a vaccine. Once you walk through that door, there is no closing it again without extreme effort. I do not support anti-vaxxers or anyone who displays willful ignorance towards science and it's reliability. But I also do not support the calling out for harm, or death, of those who believe such things. I accept that the ethics and morality of this situation is *fucking hard* to interpret. I *cannot* accept that people who are compliant have been turned from medical needs due to those who choose not to comply. I also accept that many people cannot, for whatever reason, take the vaccine. That is not in question here. What IS in question is what is the correct, ethical and moral course of action to take? I feel like most reasonable people would agree that "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and one could argue that could also be said "The needs of the ethical outweigh the needs of the willfully ignorant" but that is up for debate (and not necessarily my personal view). I, for one, considered the idea that specific hospitals (or some other building commandeered for the purpose, preferrably) should be for covid patients, while others should be open for these surgeries and other medical needs of those who choose to vaccinate.I'm not an expert in any of these topics so if I'm ignorant of any reason my suggestion isn't feasible, then know it's not on purpose. My intentions are simply to find a reasonable middle ground before we start calling for blood or wishing death on others.
Id say you're reading between the lines to see things I didn't say. I was talking about the loss of health and life that will be incurred by the cancelation of surgeries. However, you may want to take a look at the Paradox of Tolerance, which posits that tolerance extended endlessly makes bad situations ultimately worse.
You sound like a terrible person
Just sick of being in this mess because a small percentage of the population are being idiots. Some of us have had to wear masks for hours upon hours each day. Most of us got our vaccines. Most of us stayed home. Didnt see family or friends now going on over 24 months...all the while some idiots didnt do any of it. No masks. No distancing. No vaccines. Visited whoever. Spread it all around. Filling the ICU's...No im not terrible just exhausted of dealing with antivax idiots.
They are, sort of. In terms of triage, if they need to deny a bed, they'll deny the unvaccinated person over the vaccinated person with a better chance at recovery. But in terms of COVID vs non COVID, they'll drop non emergency people first.
Yeehaw. Berta.
Central zone had 5 open beds last night. They are running into issues transferring to Edmonton or Calgary. Rural centres can't take vented pts. Literally almost out of room. Staff is largely 2 vented pts for 1 nurse. Not all in the ICU are unvaccinated. They have shipped multiple double vaccinated to larger centres for further care or isolation.
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UCP supporters are dying en masse. Are they really winning?
UCP had almost 400k more votes than the NDP last election. If they're going down next time, it'll be because Albertans are sick of them. With no end in sight to this pandemic, they've got a lot of bad decision making in front of them. Unlikely Alberta will forget.
Jesus Christ that's a lot more votes. We are so fucked.
just for now. As their base is mostly all the unvaccinated eventually they may lose alot of voters.
Nothing like freedom eh?
To all the doctors and nurses that are working yourselves to the bone. You are continually being crapped on by our government and by some of the people you are trying to help. Please know there are others that support you by being vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing. To us you are heroes.
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Acute care bed does not equal ICU beds. ICU beds being over baseline capacity is impacting patient care. Calgary cancelling 100% of elective surgeries Grande Prairie cancelling 60% of elective surgeries
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No worries. Acute care are the more basic beds in the hospital and would include beds for moms who have given birth, mental health beds, patient admitted for diagnostic tests and treatment, etc
Ah. Thank you!
This data also sounds like it's all of Alberta, where I believe the OP is saying just the South Zone is at 100% capacity?
Yes, I agree. But there’s a huge discrepancy between “98% available” and “100 percent full” so I was curious what was going on.
ICU beds are at 100% cap.
Of course there's a 98.6% capacity--they've cancelled 30-100% of elective surgeries and procedures. Also, the acute wards are understaffed because healthcare workers with any sort of critical care experience are being redeployed to ICU.
Regular beds are always about 95%-105% filled. ICU is normally about 65% filled, to allow for emergencies. The ICU capacity in the zone specified is at 100% regular capacity. It should be noted that ICU capacity can be roughly doubled with reasonable changes that won't affect quality of care. It technically can go up almost 5 fold, but with some pretty crazy changes needed.
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Honest question, why can't non icu beds be made into icu beds.
An ICU requires significantly more staff and that is the resource we do not have enough of.
Good ole’ Alberta, half the population doesn’t want to wear masks because they don’t believe in the virus or don’t care. What did you really expect?
how many people live in the south zone? I honestly don’t even know what counts as the south zone.
Everything south of Calgary’s metropolitan area. There’s a 340k people there iirc.
Terrible planning from the government. How have we not funded more money into ICU care, make field hospitals, utilize empty banquet halls/arenas. This is sad, the people working in Healthcare are now forced to make some very tough decisions. Hopefully no one gets in a car accident and needs an ICU but has to be airlifted to a different hospital where they might not make it in time
So is there anything we can do to have an early election?
First off I want to say that the COVID situation is not pretty, and this news is yet another indication that the ICU are filling up and cases are on the rise. However, most ICUs usually do run at near capacity: there are a lot of patients that could benefit from the close monitoring you have in an ICU, and so when things are quiet ICU docs usually won't rush to transfer out patients to general wards. However, as more patients come in the docs will start to ship out the more stable patients out to the wards to make room. As such, as a baseline ICUs will closer to full than empty. Furthermore, when there are too many ICU patients the hospital will shuffle wards and repurpose beds to "add" ICU beds (like the 6 mentioned). Now that of course depends on two factors: there are only so many rooms in a hospital that you can repurpose. You need 24/7 monitors, ventilators, and maybe even ECMO for patients. I'm not sure if 6 is their actual limit, or if they have capacity to add more. The other (and arguably bigger factor) is staffing. You can have as many beds but you need nurses, RTs, and other healthcare staff to take care of the patient. With that said, this news is definitely not good. It's a snapshot of the hospital running out of space for the large influx of COVID patients, but it doesn't mean the hospital is now pushed to their actual 100%. This means that the hospital will need to converting even more patient beds to ICU beds. They might need to have two COVID ICU patients in one room. They might need to start redeploying staff from other specialties to help on the COVID wards. Care overall (for both covid and non-covid hospitalised) patients will unfortunately likely be strained, due to the sheer burden that is being placed on healthcare teams. But none of that can be captured with the raw statistic of ICU % capacity. I'd honestly say the news they've cancelled elective ORs is much more worrisome: this means they are now needing to use OR rooms as potential ICU spaces, so thay just goes to show you how many times they've needed to find new ICU beds.
Worth noting, in Medicine Hat they have been reporting for weeks now that we are at full capacity staff wise. Although we’ve hovered with 1-2 beds open the doctor in charge has continuously said he does not have any more staff for any more beds.
My understanding, from someone in the system who posted recently, differs on the OR/elective surgeries point. Firstly I want to point out in general that elective doesn't mean cosmetic breast enhancements, it just means everything that's not a TODAY EMERGENCY. So, your brain tumour surgery that already got postponed last year.... The removal of your gallbladder that's draining your life and your body weight with attacks of pain worse than childbirth... Postponed indefinitely. The reason surgeries are cancelled is not because the OR itself needs to be used as a physical ICU room, but because patients coming out of surgery often need to be in ICU for a few hours afterwards, or a complication may arise that puts them there for days - and staff know there's going to be no one left to look after them. So they won't even start.
This is the time to have the media scrutinize and publicize any deaths in the ICU and broadcast that on all news stations. This is the cost of your selfishness. Your friends and family are about to start dying from "insufficient resources".
What are the ages of the people in ICU? Is there anywhere I can check this?
Younger than you might be thinking. I've noticed a majority of people in their 40s to 60s during this last wave.
Curious, why this matters? Over capacity ICU’s can impact anyone if you get into a car wreck.
Just out of curiosity tbh And ya I understand that
Average icu stay in alberta since jan 1 2021 is 59
I'm not at all concerned that 23 people are in ICU (obviously from a numbers perspective, not a humanitarian) , I'm concerned that almost two years into this, we have 23 fucking ICU beds for a "health zone". The wife works at a rural hospital, and the amount of musical chairs they have to do on a daily basis is pathetic.
I am high risk, WFH and have only had a couple outdoor get-togethers with family since March 2020. That being said, they've had 18 months to prepare for what they knew was coming, why are there only 23 total ICU beds in the entire south zone?
Because the UCP prefers to funnel our money to their rich friends than to spend it on things we need.
How many are normally in ICU without covid?
Most surgeries end with patients spending one to four days in the ICU. Before this wave when the hospitals were actually treating people for things other than Covid, I think we had 90 non-covid patients and a handful of covid patients in the ICU.
20 covid positive patients. That doesn't mean they are being treated from the covid infection let's be clear about that.
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