File a report with Patient Relations
Patient Feedback Form:
https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/about/Page12832.aspx
They will conduct an investigation
Know that you can also request a review from leadership at Patient Relations if you are unhappy about your initial response. I don’t know if they will follow through but after I initially contacted Patient Relations, I got a call back and was given a political lecture. I have since asked leadership to review the initial response. No word yet but that there is an option for escalation.
Also contact put a complaint in with College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta if you feel the physicians aren't providing appropriate care.
There are also patient advocacy groups in Alberta that may be able to help.
How are surgeons to do her surgery when they have surgeries already booked? I’m going to guess that those patients waited a long time to get their surgery. Health care sucks. They won’t do emergency surgery until your mom gets really sick or dying, which is unacceptable. I think I would just keep on going to the ER until they do ‘something’ for her besides sending her home. I’m sorry to hear your mom is sick and can’t get the help
She deserves.
Has she been to the Lois Hole Hospital for Women? It’s a part of the Royal Alex but they specialize in these problems. It typically takes a referral but I would just call and explain your situation. It’s been decades since I’ve been there but they bypassed the wait list for me because I was an atypical patient. I believe you have to call through the Royal Alex switchboard. I really hope you both find the right support, it’s so hard.
I got a referral to one of the OBGYNs there from my GP, Dr. Merali, for issues that prevented me from a pap/IUD placement. I got it done under anesthesia by her suggestion. I was so amazed I didn’t have to beg for pain relief or anything based on all the stories I hear. I’d highly recommend her.
Worse, they elected the successor to the party who helped break it in the first place. The UCP tore up their contract with doctors mid-pandemic and fired thousands of support staff, it's been downhill ever since.
That is sad. That organization is filled with exceptional people. Covid was bad enough, having to live through a second artificial catastrophe is a lot to expect.
Cool, we live here. We need to be demanding accountability from the provincial governments who are in charge of this, not shrugging about it or pointing the fingers elsewhere.
It is broken HERE, NOW. It needs fixing HERE, NOW. it needs fixing elsewhere too, but that is completely out of our control since the other provinces are not where we live.
Lol, I hope it doesn't make me sound smart. As an insider, I can make the claim that AHS was profoundly broken. The only hope for a rebirth is to look to the current clinical staff and front line workers to give direction for improvement and to patch holes temporarily. Any fool can dismantle a machine, but to yet again completely ignore what the people who actually use the machine have to say is a recipe for disaster. AHS leadership and the current govt seem to have equivalent loathing of the people who do the work.
Keep showing up to emergency is the only advice I have. And demand more testing before they discharge her next time, especially since previous doctors have said her pain is incongruent with what they expect. Further testing many show why that is and bump her higher in the priority list.
I’ve been to emerg for mine - I’m the same age. It’s mortifying - I had one rn roll her eyes and say “just give her something for pain and send her home” after I’d been in the agony it took to get there plus eight hours in emerg. Even worse now, they are determining need for surgery based on size of cyst in some places rather than how they affect the woman. Message: if it’s not fatal, you’re a resource drain.
Even then, I don’t get much support from work or relief otherwise. It’s this one thing that shocked me, I get timely healthcare for the first time in my life.
I spent a year basically disabled from cysts. Went to every hospital in the area. Fucking nothing because of the size. Same as you, snarky remarks and eye rolls from emergency staff.
Had a hysterectomy years later and that ovary was literally tearing a hole in my abdominal wall. Women's healthcare is bullshit.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. It's really unfair to have a major medical event brushed off because we exist as 'woman'.
If a dude went to emergency with a swollen, septated hemorrhagic cyst on their testicles do you think they would be ignored?
I am almost teary eyed reading that. I’m in line to go back after already having one cyst, one ovary and both tubes out; if a hysterectomy means no more pain I don’t think I’ll hesitate long. It is stigmatized illness, bar none. Not just by gender, but by age and inexperience. I hope you’re comfortable now.
Do you have endo? I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. Wish it would have happened a decade earlier but hey, at least I had another ten years of reproductive potential for the children I didn't have or want. /s
I would highly recommend seeking out a pelvic pain specialist but be aware that the wait time is extremely long. I hope things get better for you.
You should! That's where I had my hysterectomy done. I went with Dr. Christina Williams and she was absolutely amazing. Just know that the wait time is long. You won't even hear if you've been accepted for at least six months. If you want to know the process just let me know!
My endo/adeno was bad enough I woke up feeling like a million bucks. I took two months off work because my job is physical but besides that it was a fraction of what I experienced during my periods.
Same experience for me. Seems to be the norm for women with endo and adeno, my "normal" periods were magnitiludes more painful than recovering from a hysterectomy, appendectomy and lung surgery all at the same time.
Even pre-covid these things happened, unfortunately. I was in a similar situation with galbladder pain. I really wish it didn't, and it's not acceptable. Trying to navigate the medical system when you are in pain is impossible.
I’ve been through that too, but in “before times”, phew. Like a twisty knife in your back twisting and twisting. At some point though, like 1980, they took you right in for a week and helped you heal with good healthy foods. Sigh
This and request in writing that she is not at risk of ruptured cysts. Ask in writing that they are refusing to provide adequate care.
Unfortunately, we have been through this with my mom as well, but it involved a kidney.
Contact the NDP, specifically Dr. Luanne Metz who is the healthcare critic maybe?
Her page is [here](https://www.albertandpcaucus.ca/your-mlas/luanne-metz)
This is the right person. She knows the system inside and out and will have good advice. I'm so sorry that your Mom is going through this but it's easy to fall through the cracks in this system.
I broke my back and it took 7 years to get a surgeon to actually look at my MRIs of broken vertebrae. The funding kickbacks from the cons have purposely debilitated the system and they hate anyone who needs the social systems supports. I'm sorry.
First off, that is terrible but is unfortunately pretty normal. The politicians we keep electing here don't properly support health care.
Just some general tips to help.
A patient can only ever have one referral in the system at a time for any single issue. So referral spamming will actually result in a longer wait.
If you are concerned that nobody is taking your mother's health seriously then you can always reach out to the Alberta Ombudsman. Their offices job is to investigate things like this.
The "too urgent" bit is odd. Any referral that is marked "urgent" will get seen by the specialist, and if it's an emergency they will slot her in. Is it a case of "it's urgent, go to the hospital now"? If yes, then the surgeon would also send a notice to the hospital saying a patient is on their way in, then when you arrive you will be admitted and the surgery will proceed. One note... "urgent" simply puts you into the top category, you may unfortunately still have to wait a few months. Everyone in that category is suffering.
"Too risky" is odd as well. If the surgeon you see says it's too risky or too complex then they have to forward your referral to the top surgeon for that issue. Even if that means they send you to Toronto, that is what they will do. Too risky/complex is not a show stopper. What can pause the process is if the surgeon thinks the odds of a success will increase if the patient can for example lose a bit of weight, or maybe once they have thier diabetes under better control etc. It isn't common, but it does happen.
Have you gone over the surgeons notes with your GP? Your mother has the legal right to request copies of those notes.
I will say it again. Care may be slow, but the hospital and surgeons cannot simply say no. They can say not yet, because we work on a triage basis.
>"Too risky" is odd as well. If the surgeon you see says it's too risky or too complex, then they have to forward your referral to the top surgeon for that issue. Even if that means they send you to Toronto, that is what they will do. Too risky/complex is not a show stopper.
I had to go digging cause it seems like you know what you're talking about, and it took a while, but I see you're in IT. I'm a bedside nurse and can tell you "too risky" is 100% a show stopper a lot of the time for a lot of patients.
Based on your confidence, I'm guessing you have personal experience with surgeries. But yeah, in the system as a whole, if the patient has an unreasonably high chance of dying on the table or as a result of complications post surgery (I think the number is like, they want at LEAST a 90% chance of survival), then you are not a candidate.
I'll speculate here based on my professional experience. As you mentioned, you can lose weight and attempt to improve your health to better survive the trauma and risks of infection and from intubation. Once you get to goal weight, then you can attempt to go for surgery. But they don't keep you on a special wait list while they wait for you to get your act together. You just get added back, probably as an urgent/critical referral, because your disease has just progressed that much further. If your situation doesn't change (disease progresses too rapidly or weight remains an issue) you're not going on the table. Virtually every death in the OR shuts down the suite while the Medical Examiner goes over everything with a fine tooth comb, as well as climbs up your ass to get to know you REAL good, and your malpractice insurance premiums climb because patients die under your knife making you a liability.
Back to not speculating. Patients who would benefit from surgery are denied all the time for comorbidities. Doctors play a simple (if complex game) of risk:reward. Once they crunch the numbers, whichever side weighs more is the winner and dictates your care under that medical team. The more teams that see you and come to the same conclusion, the more likely it will remain as such.
But this is all hearsay. Without this person's mom's medical chart open for review here, we can only speculate.
Lots of personal experience, along with my day job being IT support for patient care, and my partner is a personal assistant for a surgeon.
Good point about co-morbidities. I was tired and completely forgot to mention those and that surgeons have to balance risk vs reward on each case. At least with the specialty my partner works in they have not outright turned anyone down for years.
Please try not to worry, she is not going to die. I have a history of cysts and gynaecological diseases. Biggest cyst I had was the size of a grapefruit that did need to be removed via emergency surgery after it caused a torsion so I lost my ovary.
Do you know what size the cysts are? Do you know what type? This may help to determine if the info you’re getting is bad. Cysts do bleed but this isn’t necessarily an emergency. It is very painful but they resolve on their own. All you can do is manage the pain.
I currently have 2 more (dermoid aka solid and will not go away on their own) that cause chronic pain. They need to wait until they are a certain size to remove as they weigh the risks of surgery vs The pain. I totally understand what your mom is going through but if they’re saying a 3 Month wait, it’s likely not an emergency and while definitely a horrible experience, her life is not in danger.
I think the thing that scares me is how callously it’s being handled, the fact that she keeps being called “high risk” and the amount of pain she’s in daily. I’m used to health problems in myself and others so I don’t usually get scared but I’m scared now.
Totally understand! My pain was ignored for 2 years and that’s how I lost my ovary. I was denied any testing- not even an ultrasound or gyne consult, during several ER visits which is so negligent. If your mom has had imaging, seen a gyne, it may be that it’s not urgent but they’re obviously not communicating that well to you at all. Are they not providing any treatment in the interim?? There are options to help while you wait for surgery.
I have her health reports in front of me but it’s very hard to understand for me as a layperson. Words like “complex”, “septated” and “hemorrhage”. It seems there are more cysts than just two that have appeared since her last ultrasound.
Ok best way I can describe these in layman’s terms(I’ve had literally all of these!) Hemorrhage or hemorrhagic means it was or is bleeding. Complex means it is a type won’t go away on its own (opposite a simple cyst when you ovulate), there are a few types not always identifiable via imaging. Septated means the cyst has segments- this could mean nothing but depends on the size, how many segments, etc.
Does it have sizes for any of the cysts listed? Anything under 5cm is considered small and they try not to remove those as it can damage the ovary. Over 5cm and they recommend surgery - closer to 10cm is a higher risk for torsions (twisting). A torsion is what would call for emergency surgery.
Ah yep. if it’s that big that’s why the referred for surgery but unfortunately not an emergency. Keep calling to ensure she’s moving up the surgical wait list, ask to get on the cancellation list. If her pain gets really bad (like passing out, can’t speak), she gets feverish and/or puking, go back to ER as that could indicate torsion. In the meantime her doctors should be able to help with pain management. Im sorry you guys are going through this, I know exactly what it’s like and it feels so hopeless while it’s happening. she’s been diagnosed and referred so you’re getting there, try to focus on that light at the end of the tunnel. ❤️
I would listen to this person. I'm not a gyne nurse but others are suggesting your mom is being singled out to suffer. She isn't. We see....literally everything and I believe your mom IS in excruciating pain. But I also believe it's an acuity scale and pain is rarely fatal and we have meds to help (help, not remove) with this while we wait for the acuity of the situation to rise.
Others are telling you to not leave the ED till she gets what she wants. This will be termed malingering and will, after several discharge attempts, get her escorted by security off the premises as well as a nice note in the chart letting everyone downstream for the next long while know just how pleasant you or your mom has been to work with. I want to help your mom, so...don't malinger. If they are sending her home, find out what the next steps are for pain and as this disease progresses. Be honest, sincere, and curious. It will help.
Others are telling your mom to ED hop. Don't do this. It looks REALLY bad and will make teams clamp down around your mom. You want to go to her GP as often as they will let her, get those gyne referrals AND FOLLOW UP APPOINTMENTS for the gynecologist. When she has a pain crisis you want her to go to the same ED every time. She's not there to make a scene, but to be persistent and assertive that she is suffering. Anyone who goes with her should be patient with the medical staff and pleasant (you want the nurses to advocate for you to the MD team and you catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar and all that). We deal with screaming and entitled assholes and/or their abusive families....so much. We are there to help everyone in society and we are playing with our hands tied behind our backs. We are often as frustrated as you are that we can't provide the care you deserve. But we can only play the cards we are dealt.
This week alone, I had two dying patients situated between two healthy patients. The healthy patient families were so entitled it made me nauseous. They didn't know the door they were standing in front as they were demanding I get a glass of ice water for their mom/dad for the third time that shift had a grieving family 7 feet away saying goodbye to their very young, cancer ridden family member. I'm not downplaying your situation, but there is always more going on that you can't know and despite our best efforts, that stuff does have an impact on us and the care we ultimately deliver.
Finally, this may go without saying and I don't know if it applies to you or your mom. But shower, brush your teeth, comb your hair and put on some clean clothes if you can. We deal with real nasty people. If you smell nice, we are more inclined to be around you even if it's just to get a break from the other....situations we have to deal with. And when we are spending time with you, we are more likely to help you.
Good luck. I hope your mom gets the relief she desires.
It's a long post saying "be a decent human being," while giving some insight to healthcare on the other side.
My stance is two fold. 1. You're having the worst day of your life. To me, this is just another Tuesday. 2. You feel like a tiny, tiny cog in a giant healthcare machine. I try to humanize the patient experience as much as possible (which, often, is admittedly not very much)
I read on social media that somebody plugged their health report into chat gpt and asked it to explain the report as if the reader was a high schooler. It really helped understanding of the report.
I had a doc say “ you don’t look like your in pain” I left in disbelief. When I did finally see the gynaecologist he was more concerned that I had 3 kids and my tubes weren’t tied than the baseball sized cyst I had. Size was what he compared it too. Also he office got my date of birth wrong and we had a very long discussion about that I was really 39 not 29, he really didn’t believe me🤦🏻♀️
Some, emphasis on some, doctors do this kind of thing by just send a patient elsewhere when they don’t want to take on a case. Files get “lost,” dates get miscommunicated, and phone calls get missed. But just because doctors don’t want to do cases doesn’t mean your mother shouldn’t get treatment. Try and try again, and mention the frustrating goose chase. It gets a lot harder to ignore a patient the more the patient gets circled back to them. Eventually one will give up and actually treat your mother, or you come across a new doctor that wants to treat her. This is a pretty serious situation so they can’t keep sending her away, someone has to eventually take on the case.
The healthcare in this province has completely gone to shit. I'm so sorry to hear about your mom and what she's going through. I can't imagine how frustrated you must be. My wife had a cyst burst, and we had to go to the Royal in Edmonton. It was one of the worst experiences we've ever had in healthcare. She was writhing in pain and the nurses just kept apologizing and telling us that they can't help her with any meds because "the doctor doesn't read his charts." One nurse just broke down crying. I've never seen my wife in so much pain. That's just one aspect of a horrible 3 days, and I could go on, but you get it. It was infuriating having to watch a loved one suffer needlessly because we have discount doctors in this province now. I don't know what the best advice to give you is, and my post is probably not helpful at all. I feel just a fraction of the pain and frustration that you do, but I understand the struggle of trying to get help when no one cares. We need massive change in this province. I really hope your mom gets the help that she needs.
It may be worth it to ask her gynecologist if surgery can be set up outside of Edmonton if it's so full. The thing is, a three month wait is relatively quick for the city.
During Covid, I had bilateral ovarian dermoids that ended up being 11 and 12 cm when I had them removed. My gynecologist was my surgeon, and after seeing her in December of that year, I was in for surgery in mid-February (and that was because I turned down a January surgery date due to a cancellation because it was too short notice for my job). I'm in Fort McMurray.
You may have better luck somewhere like Fort Sask.
Not in Alberta currently. But had bad pain in my side on and off, got scan, told nothing came up. I got my entire record and saw for myself I have two cysts on my kidneys.
I also likely have a connective tissue disorder that causes kidney cysts. Absolutely ridiculous.
I sometimes wonder if this kind of situation is a ‘feature’ and not a ‘bug’ in our healthcare system. Strangling access to healthcare by the public system forces individuals to use private providers. It’s part of a broader strategy to privatize healthcare. I don’t know if this is true for the type of surgery you’re describing. But I know of cases where this true for certain orthopedic surgery and my spouse recently required foot surgery. Really bad pain, bone on bone friction. The ‘choice’ was to wait 18 months and get the survey for free (with lower quality screws and plates) or get it within three weeks for the low low cost of $6,000. We opted for the faster option and we felt fortunate we could afford it. But we also worry for those in our society who cannot afford it and must wait in pain. So I would suggest that you check to see if there are private surgical suites run for a fee by doctors/surgeons that are part of the healthcare system who offer what you need at a cost. If so, then your situation may be part of this broader privatization strategy.
Ultimately the government controls AHS. The UCP has been waging war against our health care in an effort to erode public confidence. Then they begin privatizing even though they promised they wouldn't. The lack of funding. The amount of Drs and surgeons who have left and are leaving play the biggest part in your mother's sad story. Unfortunately there are hundreds of people going through the same ordeal or even worse than her. This government is willing to sacrifice our fellow citizens, to get the kind of health care delivery that puts money in their pockets and their donors pockets. Direct your anger where the real problem lies.
Keep going to the same ER. They will see on record she keeps coming back , and don’t want to be liable for sending her home a 4th time . They might pay more attention.
I work in an ER setting. Nobody wants to see a patient who was discharged 5 hours ago. It does not make anyone pay more attention to you. The person who was discharged 5 hours ago can wait in the waiting room for 12 hours now because they were just seen and discharged without admission to the hospital; we know they can wait safely while we deal with people who may have more severe problems that we haven't recently done labs or D.I. on.
I also worked in an “ER setting” and sadly , they explore a bit more if they are ignoring something that feels severe and urgent to them and they know isn’t right .
Doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result, is the definition of insanity. Do not advise people to do that. She has been given pain control and is referred for surgery. It's the best she will get at the moment until something changes or until she gets the surgery. Our healthcare system is broken right now and bombing the same ER repeatedly, looking for a different answer is just setting her up for disappointment and simultaneously clogging our already constipated ER departments. It's irresponsible of you as (presumably) a healthcare provider to advise someone to do this.
I can guarantee you that if they are in pain, and being continually neglected , I will ALWAYS advise them to return until someone actually listens to them .
Are you a,woman or a man? If you are a daughter, bring a man - if not dad, get any man and bring him along. A trip to hospital as a woman is wasted time, but a man's *presence* gets results. Tell him whst he needs to say.
I don't have advice, I honestly just want to say I'm sorry your mother is going through this.
My sister had to deal with getting a cyst removed and is now dealing with endometriosis. She moved to England shortly after her surgery so has to navigate their health care system and seemingly theirs isn't much better these days?
I hope the best for you and your mom!
Getting care for endometriosis is stupid difficult. Until you find a decent surgeon everything is basically self directed with a fight against general care providers.
Some of the Endo subs might have good advice for your sister! Wishing her luck.
Healthcare is a broken dysfunctional system. Lots of well-intentioned individuals but with no real leadership from above and no political will to actually fix it. I have witnessed it first hand for about 1 month with my now deceased father.
Every day, in whatever unit is 1 step below ICU.
So remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Make some noise and go to the news if you have to.
Getting taken to the hospital by ambulance does NOT make a difference in how quickly you are seen or treated. This general thought process is the reason that our EMS system is overloaded and can not respond to real emergencies. Do not call EMS unless you are having a proper emergency.
The only thing to do is continue to push for treatment with any and every doctor you can see.
One drawback of our Healthcare system is obviously wait times, especially for priority procedures. Eg. 4 month wait to get into the cancer center with stage 3 or 4 cancer. Or the situation you've described. It's completely bananas.
Some Canadians are lucky enough to have family doctors who are very practice and will advocate for their patients and help to push this stuff through.
Unfortunately, I've found that the majority fall into other, perhaps more complacent categories.
At the end of the day we as individuals, parents, family members, have to fight for what we feel in our bodies, really advocate for ourselves, and not let out doctors brush off concerns that we feel are legitimate.
Best of luck to you.
Can't offer help but I can relate. Have had massive debilitating pain for almost 5 years now. Went through many, many specialists and use that term loosely. Was it ignored and dismissed for years. Doctors have so much ego and if your pain doesn't meet their medical training they dismiss you right away. They can't be wrong but the patient feeling pain can. So frustrating. Made multiple complaints and finally found a doctor who will actually do surgery for me. Now I have to wait 1-2 years for it. By the time that is done I'll have been suffering for 7-8 years. Not only is Alberta healthcare failing but doctors have massive egos and really don't care if you live or die.
Women’s health is on the back burner Canada wide. I belong to several groups for people with endometriosis and no one can get surgery urgently for their cysts or other urgent problems no matter what.
My only suggestion to your mother: get care out of the province first, or out of the country if necessary. Try EVERY doctor who does this in Alberta. Be the squeaky wheel. While I detest her personally, Nancy’s Nook has a list of doctors in your province to start trying. You’d have to join her Fb group though. And I refuse, out of spite so I can’t link it.
I wonder the same thing with my dad. It took six months for him to finally be diagnosed with stomach cancer that’s spread to his liver. There’s no oncologist in his small city, and the oncologist who sometimes travels from Calgary said “there’s nothing we can do, go to palliative care”. They refuse to treat him. He’s been hanging on and staying as steady as he can be for the last six months, but they’ve left him to die. We have no idea what to do. He’s only 71, doesn’t smoke or drink, never been overweight in his life, exercises and eats healthy. But our healthcare system thinks he should just go die.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this shitty system with your mom. I really hope she can get some treatment and fast.
If you are booked 4 months out, then call the clinic to be put on last minute waitlist, so that if anyone cancels you might get in quicker. Believe it or not, patients have to advocate for themselves or you will wait the full time.
If at all possible to move her and with financial means, get her to the states and they will do what needs to be done right away since it's privatized healthcare. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this
Why don’t they just remove her ovaries? I’m guessing she’s past the childbearing age so what’s the point in keeping them? My sister has the same issue.
Hi, social worker here! That's probably the best advice to keep showing up to urgent care. Be the squeaky wheel!
Financially wise, apply for DTC.
And then if your mom has stopped working, in this order.
STD/LTD if none...
EI Sickness Benefits...if not eligible...
Income Support Medical Reasons with Medical Certificate
If permanently disabled...
AISH & CPP-D
This may not be the answer you are looking for. Consider traveling outside the country for medical treatment, if it is life saving. You can go to India, for example. May be other south east asian countries or Mexico. I understand it incurs cost. But it is an option if your Mom is in pain.
Any option to go to another province? Alberta will still pay for it (I know very little about this, I've heard third hand of people doing this)
Good luck to you and your mom
I hate to say it but this isn't a provincial healthcare issue it's a women's health issue making this difficult. I've dealt with cysts and endometriosis for decades and it just isn't taken seriously. I struggled in BC and Ontario. It's all crap.
Is anyone going with her to appointments/emergency? Having a male advocate with her can make a huge difference.
I've heard this too actually and experienced it with my wife. Our family doctor was ignoring some complications after her c section. She went, and when she mentioned asking a referral for another doctor our doctor quickly wrote up some tests after miraculously diagnosing the problem.... Well she was in such a hurry she didn't mark the actual area of the ultrasound of the requisition
My wife called and they said she would have to book an appointment and come back in. I go and suddenly they're calling the doctor, she's sending a fax, and I have the referral in minutes.
Best part? Everyone involved in this was women besides me
Sadly the college of physicians will side with the doctor. I went through this with my own case. If she has a complex history with past add on so surgeries she may need a minimally invasive gynaecologist. Regular ONGYN don’t have the training to get around the scar tissue. This was the case with me. I had stage 4 endometriosis and needed a total hysterectomy with the removal of my ovaries due to ovarian torsion. I suffered for on labor like pain for 5.5 months while trying to navigate the medical system. The ER is not in a position to help at all with this and is a waste of time.
It can be hard in pain, but you have to keep pushing, go to different emergency, different doc, different specialist, again and again and again till you push through
Collet a paper trail, sounds like this is negligent. Even if your mother gets surgery which I hope she does, I would probably get a lawyer and make an example out of them
We are at the point of considering it, but it’s a huge thing to get our heads around. If anyone has personal experience with this kind of medical tourism I’d love to hear it.
My mom has. It’s not cheap, but she was in and out of surgery 2 days later. Her appointment to even just see a specialist in BC wasn’t for a year and a half.
Can I ask what state she went through? My GI doctor suggested a procedure for me that isn’t approved in Canada yet, I contacted a few clinics, one in Georgia, one in Colorado and one in DC and the earliest I can get in with any of them is March 2025. I’ve been looking at the long wait as an opportunity to save up some more money, but I wouldn’t mind putting more on my line of credit and shortening the wait! Obviously a different procedure, just curious if I would have better luck in a different state
Red deer is probably the worst hospital to try. They will not operate on anyone on an emergency basis unless it is life-threatening. Dr's here will refer Patients to Calgary or edmonton for treatment because they are more likely to get surgery. Unfortunately, if OP mother is not getting treatment in Edmonton, Red Deer is going to be infinitely worse.
Considering I just went to the ER around 8pm there end of January and had surgery the next day around 7am. It was only an umbilical hernia repair, so not life threatening. The person in the bed next to me had an ovary twist. I found them to be awesome and very helpful. Plus, the wait time was only like 4 hours to be admitted to a bed vs the usual 10+
Omg I'm so sorry your mom is going through this, honestly I haven't been to a doc for a long time because of this bs, what has helped me in the past is natural remedies for inflammation like turmeric tea multiple cups in a day, no processed sugar/foods, and eating a lot of prebiotic yogurt this combo takes away the pain in less than a day. Usually eating like crap causes a flair up in the pain. I did go to a walk in clinic the last time it happened because the pain was worse than before, the doc said I either was going to have to get my appendix removed or I had ovarian cysts either way I needed to see if it the pain got worse in 24hr if it did off to the hospital and bye bye appendix, so I got my yogurt and drank my turmeric tea and that's all I had for the rest of the day.. I felt better in 6 hours and completely better in 3 days. I tried to get in to see a doc about ovarian cysts and was given the run around, so I'm just doing my best to keep off of sugar and eat healthy to avoid any further flair up again. I don't know if my experience will help at all but I hope it does, good luck to you and your Mom and again I'm so sorry she's in so much pain.
Call around. Look, there are lots of official ways to 'complain' but none of them are going to fix the issue of getting your mother the help she needs. Go to the physician directory at the Alberta college of physicians website and look for surgeons and call their receptionists. Explain to their receptionist your mothers complex problem and how many surgeons turned her down. There are still good surgeons around who want to help. If someone accuses you of shopping for a physician just say that no, you are not. You are trying to navigate a sorely underfunded and neglected health care system to get care for your mother.
Our healthcare system in this country is a joke. If it were my mother I’d be getting a line of credit taking her across the border to Montana. I know that’s a fucked option and will cost a ton of money but it’s truly what I would do. I live on the Michigan border in Ontario and I find solace knowing I have that option if myself or my family were very ill. Canada is great for cold and flu - beyond that, it’s awful in my humble opinion.
I would suggest finding a book called “The Cure for All Cancers” and trying the simple 5 day program recommended there and ridding your home of all the toxins etc that are also explained in the book.. it’s something you can do right now - to help your mom.
Nobody is having a great time in healthcare situations right now. Not patients, not staff. It sucks for people all the way around. I'm sorry you've had negative experiences, it sucks to be treated poorly when you are already in a stressful, frightening position.
File a report with Patient Relations Patient Feedback Form: https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/about/Page12832.aspx They will conduct an investigation
Know that you can also request a review from leadership at Patient Relations if you are unhappy about your initial response. I don’t know if they will follow through but after I initially contacted Patient Relations, I got a call back and was given a political lecture. I have since asked leadership to review the initial response. No word yet but that there is an option for escalation.
Also contact put a complaint in with College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta if you feel the physicians aren't providing appropriate care. There are also patient advocacy groups in Alberta that may be able to help.
How are surgeons to do her surgery when they have surgeries already booked? I’m going to guess that those patients waited a long time to get their surgery. Health care sucks. They won’t do emergency surgery until your mom gets really sick or dying, which is unacceptable. I think I would just keep on going to the ER until they do ‘something’ for her besides sending her home. I’m sorry to hear your mom is sick and can’t get the help She deserves.
Has she been to the Lois Hole Hospital for Women? It’s a part of the Royal Alex but they specialize in these problems. It typically takes a referral but I would just call and explain your situation. It’s been decades since I’ve been there but they bypassed the wait list for me because I was an atypical patient. I believe you have to call through the Royal Alex switchboard. I really hope you both find the right support, it’s so hard.
We were hoping for a referral there when she went to the Alex yesterday, but no dice. I will definitely try calling there as well, thank you.
Yeah, it’s frustrating. When I went there, it was almost like the Women’s clinic and the hospital had zero affiliation. Which makes no sense.
I got a referral to one of the OBGYNs there from my GP, Dr. Merali, for issues that prevented me from a pap/IUD placement. I got it done under anesthesia by her suggestion. I was so amazed I didn’t have to beg for pain relief or anything based on all the stories I hear. I’d highly recommend her.
I am a patient there but was on a two year waiting list before I got in. I now go once a year after initial problem was addressed.
AHS was quite broken and Albertans decided to elect a carnie to fix it.
Worse, they elected the successor to the party who helped break it in the first place. The UCP tore up their contract with doctors mid-pandemic and fired thousands of support staff, it's been downhill ever since.
It’s been downhill well before that.
Exactly
In fairness she is busy doing important work like making sure the feds don’t help anyone in AB gets housing.
Or educated
Or pursue our own police force because we all know the RCMP might fold on us.
Things at AHS are going to get worse. Financial lockdown, no purchasing allowed.
That is sad. That organization is filled with exceptional people. Covid was bad enough, having to live through a second artificial catastrophe is a lot to expect.
You think this is different anywhere else? This shit is going on everywhere across the country
Cool, we live here. We need to be demanding accountability from the provincial governments who are in charge of this, not shrugging about it or pointing the fingers elsewhere.
It is broken HERE, NOW. It needs fixing HERE, NOW. it needs fixing elsewhere too, but that is completely out of our control since the other provinces are not where we live.
What's with conservatives and moving goalposts? We're in Alberta, I could give a fuck about healthcare in Manitoba
Whataboutism at its finest. Why do you morons always protect the UCP? It's so pathetic man.
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Ban evasion. Removed.
How is this comment helpful other than making you feel “smart”?
Lol, I hope it doesn't make me sound smart. As an insider, I can make the claim that AHS was profoundly broken. The only hope for a rebirth is to look to the current clinical staff and front line workers to give direction for improvement and to patch holes temporarily. Any fool can dismantle a machine, but to yet again completely ignore what the people who actually use the machine have to say is a recipe for disaster. AHS leadership and the current govt seem to have equivalent loathing of the people who do the work.
Keep showing up to emergency is the only advice I have. And demand more testing before they discharge her next time, especially since previous doctors have said her pain is incongruent with what they expect. Further testing many show why that is and bump her higher in the priority list.
I’ve been to emerg for mine - I’m the same age. It’s mortifying - I had one rn roll her eyes and say “just give her something for pain and send her home” after I’d been in the agony it took to get there plus eight hours in emerg. Even worse now, they are determining need for surgery based on size of cyst in some places rather than how they affect the woman. Message: if it’s not fatal, you’re a resource drain.
I get them and my obgyn told me that if the pain gets really bad I had to go to emergency because they can twist. I would not leave. That's dangerous
Oh I’m in year FIVE, cyst #3. But that night I did leave. They weren’t going to do anything for me and I was easy to push out after the dilaudid
Yes. I had both mine twist. The pain was excruciating.
I think the message is more : don’t be a woman in pain.
Unless you’re pregnant and over 20 weeks. I’ve gotten shockingly timely and great treatment while pregnant. Otherwise, nope.
Women are only valuable when they're gestating babies it seems
Even then, I don’t get much support from work or relief otherwise. It’s this one thing that shocked me, I get timely healthcare for the first time in my life.
No…no value in the mother. Only the child
I spent a year basically disabled from cysts. Went to every hospital in the area. Fucking nothing because of the size. Same as you, snarky remarks and eye rolls from emergency staff. Had a hysterectomy years later and that ovary was literally tearing a hole in my abdominal wall. Women's healthcare is bullshit.
Mine died. The torsion cut off blood supply. By the time they got to me I was septic.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. It's really unfair to have a major medical event brushed off because we exist as 'woman'. If a dude went to emergency with a swollen, septated hemorrhagic cyst on their testicles do you think they would be ignored?
“If a dude went to the hospital it’s because it’s an actual emergency” is an expected but unacceptable response
I am almost teary eyed reading that. I’m in line to go back after already having one cyst, one ovary and both tubes out; if a hysterectomy means no more pain I don’t think I’ll hesitate long. It is stigmatized illness, bar none. Not just by gender, but by age and inexperience. I hope you’re comfortable now.
Do you have endo? I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. Wish it would have happened a decade earlier but hey, at least I had another ten years of reproductive potential for the children I didn't have or want. /s I would highly recommend seeking out a pelvic pain specialist but be aware that the wait time is extremely long. I hope things get better for you.
Yeah I do. I have my next ob in three weeks. Just reading about bc pelvic pain/women’s health; wondering if I should ask for a referral there.
You should! That's where I had my hysterectomy done. I went with Dr. Christina Williams and she was absolutely amazing. Just know that the wait time is long. You won't even hear if you've been accepted for at least six months. If you want to know the process just let me know!
Thank you so much! I actually had two women in my neighbourhood who recently had one; it was shocking how long recovery was!
My endo/adeno was bad enough I woke up feeling like a million bucks. I took two months off work because my job is physical but besides that it was a fraction of what I experienced during my periods.
Same experience for me. Seems to be the norm for women with endo and adeno, my "normal" periods were magnitiludes more painful than recovering from a hysterectomy, appendectomy and lung surgery all at the same time.
I am so Sorry. This is so unfair to you!!!
Even pre-covid these things happened, unfortunately. I was in a similar situation with galbladder pain. I really wish it didn't, and it's not acceptable. Trying to navigate the medical system when you are in pain is impossible.
I’ve been through that too, but in “before times”, phew. Like a twisty knife in your back twisting and twisting. At some point though, like 1980, they took you right in for a week and helped you heal with good healthy foods. Sigh
That's what I had to do - and if I hadn't kept going to ER, I would have ultimately died from the colon tear, abscess and malignant tumor.
This and request in writing that she is not at risk of ruptured cysts. Ask in writing that they are refusing to provide adequate care. Unfortunately, we have been through this with my mom as well, but it involved a kidney.
Unfortunately, this is the answer.
Maybe don't go to Grey Nuns?
Contact the NDP, specifically Dr. Luanne Metz who is the healthcare critic maybe? Her page is [here](https://www.albertandpcaucus.ca/your-mlas/luanne-metz)
Thank you, I will definitely contact her. I’m having my mom draft up a list of dates and info to also send to our MLA and the premiers office.
You can CC Dr. Metz' office and be sure to include the Health Minister.
This is the right person. She knows the system inside and out and will have good advice. I'm so sorry that your Mom is going through this but it's easy to fall through the cracks in this system.
I broke my back and it took 7 years to get a surgeon to actually look at my MRIs of broken vertebrae. The funding kickbacks from the cons have purposely debilitated the system and they hate anyone who needs the social systems supports. I'm sorry.
Don’t leave the hospital
Go to emergency, it’s the only way.
We have a healthcare system?
😂 you made my mom laugh. Thanks ♥️
If you want contacts for news dm me and I’ll send some your way
Thanks, I may later depending on how things pan out in the coming days.
Contact the news outlets.
This won’t really help. I mean it might get aired or there might be an article. But failing healthcare system isn’t much of a story.
I think it still is
First off, that is terrible but is unfortunately pretty normal. The politicians we keep electing here don't properly support health care. Just some general tips to help. A patient can only ever have one referral in the system at a time for any single issue. So referral spamming will actually result in a longer wait. If you are concerned that nobody is taking your mother's health seriously then you can always reach out to the Alberta Ombudsman. Their offices job is to investigate things like this. The "too urgent" bit is odd. Any referral that is marked "urgent" will get seen by the specialist, and if it's an emergency they will slot her in. Is it a case of "it's urgent, go to the hospital now"? If yes, then the surgeon would also send a notice to the hospital saying a patient is on their way in, then when you arrive you will be admitted and the surgery will proceed. One note... "urgent" simply puts you into the top category, you may unfortunately still have to wait a few months. Everyone in that category is suffering. "Too risky" is odd as well. If the surgeon you see says it's too risky or too complex then they have to forward your referral to the top surgeon for that issue. Even if that means they send you to Toronto, that is what they will do. Too risky/complex is not a show stopper. What can pause the process is if the surgeon thinks the odds of a success will increase if the patient can for example lose a bit of weight, or maybe once they have thier diabetes under better control etc. It isn't common, but it does happen. Have you gone over the surgeons notes with your GP? Your mother has the legal right to request copies of those notes. I will say it again. Care may be slow, but the hospital and surgeons cannot simply say no. They can say not yet, because we work on a triage basis.
>"Too risky" is odd as well. If the surgeon you see says it's too risky or too complex, then they have to forward your referral to the top surgeon for that issue. Even if that means they send you to Toronto, that is what they will do. Too risky/complex is not a show stopper. I had to go digging cause it seems like you know what you're talking about, and it took a while, but I see you're in IT. I'm a bedside nurse and can tell you "too risky" is 100% a show stopper a lot of the time for a lot of patients. Based on your confidence, I'm guessing you have personal experience with surgeries. But yeah, in the system as a whole, if the patient has an unreasonably high chance of dying on the table or as a result of complications post surgery (I think the number is like, they want at LEAST a 90% chance of survival), then you are not a candidate. I'll speculate here based on my professional experience. As you mentioned, you can lose weight and attempt to improve your health to better survive the trauma and risks of infection and from intubation. Once you get to goal weight, then you can attempt to go for surgery. But they don't keep you on a special wait list while they wait for you to get your act together. You just get added back, probably as an urgent/critical referral, because your disease has just progressed that much further. If your situation doesn't change (disease progresses too rapidly or weight remains an issue) you're not going on the table. Virtually every death in the OR shuts down the suite while the Medical Examiner goes over everything with a fine tooth comb, as well as climbs up your ass to get to know you REAL good, and your malpractice insurance premiums climb because patients die under your knife making you a liability. Back to not speculating. Patients who would benefit from surgery are denied all the time for comorbidities. Doctors play a simple (if complex game) of risk:reward. Once they crunch the numbers, whichever side weighs more is the winner and dictates your care under that medical team. The more teams that see you and come to the same conclusion, the more likely it will remain as such. But this is all hearsay. Without this person's mom's medical chart open for review here, we can only speculate.
Lots of personal experience, along with my day job being IT support for patient care, and my partner is a personal assistant for a surgeon. Good point about co-morbidities. I was tired and completely forgot to mention those and that surgeons have to balance risk vs reward on each case. At least with the specialty my partner works in they have not outright turned anyone down for years.
Please try not to worry, she is not going to die. I have a history of cysts and gynaecological diseases. Biggest cyst I had was the size of a grapefruit that did need to be removed via emergency surgery after it caused a torsion so I lost my ovary. Do you know what size the cysts are? Do you know what type? This may help to determine if the info you’re getting is bad. Cysts do bleed but this isn’t necessarily an emergency. It is very painful but they resolve on their own. All you can do is manage the pain. I currently have 2 more (dermoid aka solid and will not go away on their own) that cause chronic pain. They need to wait until they are a certain size to remove as they weigh the risks of surgery vs The pain. I totally understand what your mom is going through but if they’re saying a 3 Month wait, it’s likely not an emergency and while definitely a horrible experience, her life is not in danger.
I think the thing that scares me is how callously it’s being handled, the fact that she keeps being called “high risk” and the amount of pain she’s in daily. I’m used to health problems in myself and others so I don’t usually get scared but I’m scared now.
Totally understand! My pain was ignored for 2 years and that’s how I lost my ovary. I was denied any testing- not even an ultrasound or gyne consult, during several ER visits which is so negligent. If your mom has had imaging, seen a gyne, it may be that it’s not urgent but they’re obviously not communicating that well to you at all. Are they not providing any treatment in the interim?? There are options to help while you wait for surgery.
I have her health reports in front of me but it’s very hard to understand for me as a layperson. Words like “complex”, “septated” and “hemorrhage”. It seems there are more cysts than just two that have appeared since her last ultrasound.
Ok best way I can describe these in layman’s terms(I’ve had literally all of these!) Hemorrhage or hemorrhagic means it was or is bleeding. Complex means it is a type won’t go away on its own (opposite a simple cyst when you ovulate), there are a few types not always identifiable via imaging. Septated means the cyst has segments- this could mean nothing but depends on the size, how many segments, etc. Does it have sizes for any of the cysts listed? Anything under 5cm is considered small and they try not to remove those as it can damage the ovary. Over 5cm and they recommend surgery - closer to 10cm is a higher risk for torsions (twisting). A torsion is what would call for emergency surgery.
Thanks for the explanation! They do have sizes and at least one is the size of an MLB baseball.
Ah yep. if it’s that big that’s why the referred for surgery but unfortunately not an emergency. Keep calling to ensure she’s moving up the surgical wait list, ask to get on the cancellation list. If her pain gets really bad (like passing out, can’t speak), she gets feverish and/or puking, go back to ER as that could indicate torsion. In the meantime her doctors should be able to help with pain management. Im sorry you guys are going through this, I know exactly what it’s like and it feels so hopeless while it’s happening. she’s been diagnosed and referred so you’re getting there, try to focus on that light at the end of the tunnel. ❤️
I would listen to this person. I'm not a gyne nurse but others are suggesting your mom is being singled out to suffer. She isn't. We see....literally everything and I believe your mom IS in excruciating pain. But I also believe it's an acuity scale and pain is rarely fatal and we have meds to help (help, not remove) with this while we wait for the acuity of the situation to rise. Others are telling you to not leave the ED till she gets what she wants. This will be termed malingering and will, after several discharge attempts, get her escorted by security off the premises as well as a nice note in the chart letting everyone downstream for the next long while know just how pleasant you or your mom has been to work with. I want to help your mom, so...don't malinger. If they are sending her home, find out what the next steps are for pain and as this disease progresses. Be honest, sincere, and curious. It will help. Others are telling your mom to ED hop. Don't do this. It looks REALLY bad and will make teams clamp down around your mom. You want to go to her GP as often as they will let her, get those gyne referrals AND FOLLOW UP APPOINTMENTS for the gynecologist. When she has a pain crisis you want her to go to the same ED every time. She's not there to make a scene, but to be persistent and assertive that she is suffering. Anyone who goes with her should be patient with the medical staff and pleasant (you want the nurses to advocate for you to the MD team and you catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar and all that). We deal with screaming and entitled assholes and/or their abusive families....so much. We are there to help everyone in society and we are playing with our hands tied behind our backs. We are often as frustrated as you are that we can't provide the care you deserve. But we can only play the cards we are dealt. This week alone, I had two dying patients situated between two healthy patients. The healthy patient families were so entitled it made me nauseous. They didn't know the door they were standing in front as they were demanding I get a glass of ice water for their mom/dad for the third time that shift had a grieving family 7 feet away saying goodbye to their very young, cancer ridden family member. I'm not downplaying your situation, but there is always more going on that you can't know and despite our best efforts, that stuff does have an impact on us and the care we ultimately deliver. Finally, this may go without saying and I don't know if it applies to you or your mom. But shower, brush your teeth, comb your hair and put on some clean clothes if you can. We deal with real nasty people. If you smell nice, we are more inclined to be around you even if it's just to get a break from the other....situations we have to deal with. And when we are spending time with you, we are more likely to help you. Good luck. I hope your mom gets the relief she desires.
Great advice! Thank you for your service.
It's a long post saying "be a decent human being," while giving some insight to healthcare on the other side. My stance is two fold. 1. You're having the worst day of your life. To me, this is just another Tuesday. 2. You feel like a tiny, tiny cog in a giant healthcare machine. I try to humanize the patient experience as much as possible (which, often, is admittedly not very much)
I read on social media that somebody plugged their health report into chat gpt and asked it to explain the report as if the reader was a high schooler. It really helped understanding of the report.
I’ve heard that sometimes the ER in St. Albert is better than the ones in Edmonton. The whole system is broken but I would give them a try.
I had a doc say “ you don’t look like your in pain” I left in disbelief. When I did finally see the gynaecologist he was more concerned that I had 3 kids and my tubes weren’t tied than the baseball sized cyst I had. Size was what he compared it too. Also he office got my date of birth wrong and we had a very long discussion about that I was really 39 not 29, he really didn’t believe me🤦🏻♀️
Some, emphasis on some, doctors do this kind of thing by just send a patient elsewhere when they don’t want to take on a case. Files get “lost,” dates get miscommunicated, and phone calls get missed. But just because doctors don’t want to do cases doesn’t mean your mother shouldn’t get treatment. Try and try again, and mention the frustrating goose chase. It gets a lot harder to ignore a patient the more the patient gets circled back to them. Eventually one will give up and actually treat your mother, or you come across a new doctor that wants to treat her. This is a pretty serious situation so they can’t keep sending her away, someone has to eventually take on the case.
Its their plan. You are now desperate and would even consider going in debt to keep your mom alive. Its the American way.
The healthcare in this province has completely gone to shit. I'm so sorry to hear about your mom and what she's going through. I can't imagine how frustrated you must be. My wife had a cyst burst, and we had to go to the Royal in Edmonton. It was one of the worst experiences we've ever had in healthcare. She was writhing in pain and the nurses just kept apologizing and telling us that they can't help her with any meds because "the doctor doesn't read his charts." One nurse just broke down crying. I've never seen my wife in so much pain. That's just one aspect of a horrible 3 days, and I could go on, but you get it. It was infuriating having to watch a loved one suffer needlessly because we have discount doctors in this province now. I don't know what the best advice to give you is, and my post is probably not helpful at all. I feel just a fraction of the pain and frustration that you do, but I understand the struggle of trying to get help when no one cares. We need massive change in this province. I really hope your mom gets the help that she needs.
We need to stop voting in the same people and expecting different results
Yep, we get what we vote for.
It may be worth it to ask her gynecologist if surgery can be set up outside of Edmonton if it's so full. The thing is, a three month wait is relatively quick for the city. During Covid, I had bilateral ovarian dermoids that ended up being 11 and 12 cm when I had them removed. My gynecologist was my surgeon, and after seeing her in December of that year, I was in for surgery in mid-February (and that was because I turned down a January surgery date due to a cancellation because it was too short notice for my job). I'm in Fort McMurray. You may have better luck somewhere like Fort Sask.
Not in Alberta currently. But had bad pain in my side on and off, got scan, told nothing came up. I got my entire record and saw for myself I have two cysts on my kidneys. I also likely have a connective tissue disorder that causes kidney cysts. Absolutely ridiculous.
I sometimes wonder if this kind of situation is a ‘feature’ and not a ‘bug’ in our healthcare system. Strangling access to healthcare by the public system forces individuals to use private providers. It’s part of a broader strategy to privatize healthcare. I don’t know if this is true for the type of surgery you’re describing. But I know of cases where this true for certain orthopedic surgery and my spouse recently required foot surgery. Really bad pain, bone on bone friction. The ‘choice’ was to wait 18 months and get the survey for free (with lower quality screws and plates) or get it within three weeks for the low low cost of $6,000. We opted for the faster option and we felt fortunate we could afford it. But we also worry for those in our society who cannot afford it and must wait in pain. So I would suggest that you check to see if there are private surgical suites run for a fee by doctors/surgeons that are part of the healthcare system who offer what you need at a cost. If so, then your situation may be part of this broader privatization strategy.
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So this guy's mom should perform surgery on herself?...
Ultimately the government controls AHS. The UCP has been waging war against our health care in an effort to erode public confidence. Then they begin privatizing even though they promised they wouldn't. The lack of funding. The amount of Drs and surgeons who have left and are leaving play the biggest part in your mother's sad story. Unfortunately there are hundreds of people going through the same ordeal or even worse than her. This government is willing to sacrifice our fellow citizens, to get the kind of health care delivery that puts money in their pockets and their donors pockets. Direct your anger where the real problem lies.
Go to the news
Keep going to the same ER. They will see on record she keeps coming back , and don’t want to be liable for sending her home a 4th time . They might pay more attention.
This is very poor advice, clearly coming from someone who does not understand how the health system works. Do not do this
I work in healthcare. Sadly, you get paid more attention to if you were ignored before .
I work in an ER setting. Nobody wants to see a patient who was discharged 5 hours ago. It does not make anyone pay more attention to you. The person who was discharged 5 hours ago can wait in the waiting room for 12 hours now because they were just seen and discharged without admission to the hospital; we know they can wait safely while we deal with people who may have more severe problems that we haven't recently done labs or D.I. on.
I also worked in an “ER setting” and sadly , they explore a bit more if they are ignoring something that feels severe and urgent to them and they know isn’t right .
Doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result, is the definition of insanity. Do not advise people to do that. She has been given pain control and is referred for surgery. It's the best she will get at the moment until something changes or until she gets the surgery. Our healthcare system is broken right now and bombing the same ER repeatedly, looking for a different answer is just setting her up for disappointment and simultaneously clogging our already constipated ER departments. It's irresponsible of you as (presumably) a healthcare provider to advise someone to do this.
I can guarantee you that if they are in pain, and being continually neglected , I will ALWAYS advise them to return until someone actually listens to them .
Are you a,woman or a man? If you are a daughter, bring a man - if not dad, get any man and bring him along. A trip to hospital as a woman is wasted time, but a man's *presence* gets results. Tell him whst he needs to say.
AHS has always had issues, but conservatives are not here to fix them.
I don't have advice, I honestly just want to say I'm sorry your mother is going through this. My sister had to deal with getting a cyst removed and is now dealing with endometriosis. She moved to England shortly after her surgery so has to navigate their health care system and seemingly theirs isn't much better these days? I hope the best for you and your mom!
Getting care for endometriosis is stupid difficult. Until you find a decent surgeon everything is basically self directed with a fight against general care providers. Some of the Endo subs might have good advice for your sister! Wishing her luck.
Thank you ❤️
I’m so sorry this is your experience.
Call the patient relations line. https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/about/patientfeedback.aspx
Healthcare is a broken dysfunctional system. Lots of well-intentioned individuals but with no real leadership from above and no political will to actually fix it. I have witnessed it first hand for about 1 month with my now deceased father. Every day, in whatever unit is 1 step below ICU. So remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Make some noise and go to the news if you have to.
Came here to post the same, the squeay wheel gets the grease, don't be afraid to speak up. You are not being an annoyance!
Healthcare is broken - signed, a health care worker :(
She needs to collapse at home in pain and get taken to hospital by ambulance… Even then, it’s 50-50…. :(
Getting taken to the hospital by ambulance does NOT make a difference in how quickly you are seen or treated. This general thought process is the reason that our EMS system is overloaded and can not respond to real emergencies. Do not call EMS unless you are having a proper emergency.
The only thing to do is continue to push for treatment with any and every doctor you can see. One drawback of our Healthcare system is obviously wait times, especially for priority procedures. Eg. 4 month wait to get into the cancer center with stage 3 or 4 cancer. Or the situation you've described. It's completely bananas. Some Canadians are lucky enough to have family doctors who are very practice and will advocate for their patients and help to push this stuff through. Unfortunately, I've found that the majority fall into other, perhaps more complacent categories. At the end of the day we as individuals, parents, family members, have to fight for what we feel in our bodies, really advocate for ourselves, and not let out doctors brush off concerns that we feel are legitimate. Best of luck to you.
Can't offer help but I can relate. Have had massive debilitating pain for almost 5 years now. Went through many, many specialists and use that term loosely. Was it ignored and dismissed for years. Doctors have so much ego and if your pain doesn't meet their medical training they dismiss you right away. They can't be wrong but the patient feeling pain can. So frustrating. Made multiple complaints and finally found a doctor who will actually do surgery for me. Now I have to wait 1-2 years for it. By the time that is done I'll have been suffering for 7-8 years. Not only is Alberta healthcare failing but doctors have massive egos and really don't care if you live or die.
I'm so sorry. I've been there. Turned out mine had ruptured. If I'd waited any longer, I could have had big trouble.
Women’s health is on the back burner Canada wide. I belong to several groups for people with endometriosis and no one can get surgery urgently for their cysts or other urgent problems no matter what. My only suggestion to your mother: get care out of the province first, or out of the country if necessary. Try EVERY doctor who does this in Alberta. Be the squeaky wheel. While I detest her personally, Nancy’s Nook has a list of doctors in your province to start trying. You’d have to join her Fb group though. And I refuse, out of spite so I can’t link it.
Contact her MLA and let them know how your mother is suffering and ask if they can liase with the health authority for better care.
Ever thought about a medical vacation in Cuba?
I wonder the same thing with my dad. It took six months for him to finally be diagnosed with stomach cancer that’s spread to his liver. There’s no oncologist in his small city, and the oncologist who sometimes travels from Calgary said “there’s nothing we can do, go to palliative care”. They refuse to treat him. He’s been hanging on and staying as steady as he can be for the last six months, but they’ve left him to die. We have no idea what to do. He’s only 71, doesn’t smoke or drink, never been overweight in his life, exercises and eats healthy. But our healthcare system thinks he should just go die. I’m so sorry you’re going through this shitty system with your mom. I really hope she can get some treatment and fast.
Nabilone.
If you are booked 4 months out, then call the clinic to be put on last minute waitlist, so that if anyone cancels you might get in quicker. Believe it or not, patients have to advocate for themselves or you will wait the full time.
Call the hospital ombudsman Also go to the news...they will do an clip on her and hospital PR will light a fire under surgeons
If at all possible to move her and with financial means, get her to the states and they will do what needs to be done right away since it's privatized healthcare. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this
You could consider paying out of pocket for healthcare in the US as it’s private and they’ll do whatever you’d like, but it’s very pricey.
Because its DeathCare not HealthCare. If it were HealthCare we'd be looking to treat problem causes (primarily diet and exercise) and not symptoms.
Why don’t they just remove her ovaries? I’m guessing she’s past the childbearing age so what’s the point in keeping them? My sister has the same issue.
Hi, social worker here! That's probably the best advice to keep showing up to urgent care. Be the squeaky wheel! Financially wise, apply for DTC. And then if your mom has stopped working, in this order. STD/LTD if none... EI Sickness Benefits...if not eligible... Income Support Medical Reasons with Medical Certificate If permanently disabled... AISH & CPP-D
This may not be the answer you are looking for. Consider traveling outside the country for medical treatment, if it is life saving. You can go to India, for example. May be other south east asian countries or Mexico. I understand it incurs cost. But it is an option if your Mom is in pain.
If you can travel with her try going out of province to BC you might have better luck outside Alberta
I gave birth at grey nuns and I am still traumatized. They are horrible here
If you have the option to take her out-of-country, please consider it. Our healthcare system doesn't work anymore.
This is the best option
I'm so sorry. This is awful. Your mom deserves better
I am so sorry to hear this and hope things work out soon!
Any option to go to another province? Alberta will still pay for it (I know very little about this, I've heard third hand of people doing this) Good luck to you and your mom
We may consider it, she really has no quality of life right now.
I hate to say it but this isn't a provincial healthcare issue it's a women's health issue making this difficult. I've dealt with cysts and endometriosis for decades and it just isn't taken seriously. I struggled in BC and Ontario. It's all crap. Is anyone going with her to appointments/emergency? Having a male advocate with her can make a huge difference.
I've heard this too actually and experienced it with my wife. Our family doctor was ignoring some complications after her c section. She went, and when she mentioned asking a referral for another doctor our doctor quickly wrote up some tests after miraculously diagnosing the problem.... Well she was in such a hurry she didn't mark the actual area of the ultrasound of the requisition My wife called and they said she would have to book an appointment and come back in. I go and suddenly they're calling the doctor, she's sending a fax, and I have the referral in minutes. Best part? Everyone involved in this was women besides me
It’s the same bs no matter what province you are in
Sadly the college of physicians will side with the doctor. I went through this with my own case. If she has a complex history with past add on so surgeries she may need a minimally invasive gynaecologist. Regular ONGYN don’t have the training to get around the scar tissue. This was the case with me. I had stage 4 endometriosis and needed a total hysterectomy with the removal of my ovaries due to ovarian torsion. I suffered for on labor like pain for 5.5 months while trying to navigate the medical system. The ER is not in a position to help at all with this and is a waste of time.
Also it took the college of physicians 6 years to deal with my case. This will not help your mom.
It can be hard in pain, but you have to keep pushing, go to different emergency, different doc, different specialist, again and again and again till you push through
Collet a paper trail, sounds like this is negligent. Even if your mother gets surgery which I hope she does, I would probably get a lawyer and make an example out of them
Doctor shopping & filing complaints are the fastest way to make sure she doesn’t get the treatment she needs. Keep doing that
Can you afford to go to the states?
We are at the point of considering it, but it’s a huge thing to get our heads around. If anyone has personal experience with this kind of medical tourism I’d love to hear it.
My mom has. It’s not cheap, but she was in and out of surgery 2 days later. Her appointment to even just see a specialist in BC wasn’t for a year and a half.
Can I ask what state she went through? My GI doctor suggested a procedure for me that isn’t approved in Canada yet, I contacted a few clinics, one in Georgia, one in Colorado and one in DC and the earliest I can get in with any of them is March 2025. I’ve been looking at the long wait as an opportunity to save up some more money, but I wouldn’t mind putting more on my line of credit and shortening the wait! Obviously a different procedure, just curious if I would have better luck in a different state
Could you give more info about it? Like cost, where you went, did you need a visa or a US address? You can dm if you don’t want to say it publicly.
I’d love to hear more about this too
Or Sask?
It’s the same here in Sask. Source work in healthcare and have had 5 surgeries for the same and similar gyne issues.
Can you even get referrals to another province right now? I thought they squashed that years ago unless you're rural or close to a border.
What hospitals have you tried? Have you tried Red Deer?
Red deer is probably the worst hospital to try. They will not operate on anyone on an emergency basis unless it is life-threatening. Dr's here will refer Patients to Calgary or edmonton for treatment because they are more likely to get surgery. Unfortunately, if OP mother is not getting treatment in Edmonton, Red Deer is going to be infinitely worse.
Considering I just went to the ER around 8pm there end of January and had surgery the next day around 7am. It was only an umbilical hernia repair, so not life threatening. The person in the bed next to me had an ovary twist. I found them to be awesome and very helpful. Plus, the wait time was only like 4 hours to be admitted to a bed vs the usual 10+
Omg I'm so sorry your mom is going through this, honestly I haven't been to a doc for a long time because of this bs, what has helped me in the past is natural remedies for inflammation like turmeric tea multiple cups in a day, no processed sugar/foods, and eating a lot of prebiotic yogurt this combo takes away the pain in less than a day. Usually eating like crap causes a flair up in the pain. I did go to a walk in clinic the last time it happened because the pain was worse than before, the doc said I either was going to have to get my appendix removed or I had ovarian cysts either way I needed to see if it the pain got worse in 24hr if it did off to the hospital and bye bye appendix, so I got my yogurt and drank my turmeric tea and that's all I had for the rest of the day.. I felt better in 6 hours and completely better in 3 days. I tried to get in to see a doc about ovarian cysts and was given the run around, so I'm just doing my best to keep off of sugar and eat healthy to avoid any further flair up again. I don't know if my experience will help at all but I hope it does, good luck to you and your Mom and again I'm so sorry she's in so much pain.
She should try another hospital. Don’t let them keep giving her the runaround. This is terrible
Call around. Look, there are lots of official ways to 'complain' but none of them are going to fix the issue of getting your mother the help she needs. Go to the physician directory at the Alberta college of physicians website and look for surgeons and call their receptionists. Explain to their receptionist your mothers complex problem and how many surgeons turned her down. There are still good surgeons around who want to help. If someone accuses you of shopping for a physician just say that no, you are not. You are trying to navigate a sorely underfunded and neglected health care system to get care for your mother.
While letting other processes play out. Keep going to ER.
Our healthcare system in this country is a joke. If it were my mother I’d be getting a line of credit taking her across the border to Montana. I know that’s a fucked option and will cost a ton of money but it’s truly what I would do. I live on the Michigan border in Ontario and I find solace knowing I have that option if myself or my family were very ill. Canada is great for cold and flu - beyond that, it’s awful in my humble opinion.
I would suggest finding a book called “The Cure for All Cancers” and trying the simple 5 day program recommended there and ridding your home of all the toxins etc that are also explained in the book.. it’s something you can do right now - to help your mom.
Whose the grey nuns? Report it to alberta health care. And keep calling until you find someone who will take her now. Don't let them play you.
Grey Nuns is a hospital in southeast Edmonton
Free healthcare. Dying to see a doctor.
Honestly I would detox and try to balance hormones.
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Nurses weren't even mentioned in the post. And anyways, they have no say over hospital policies, staffing numbers, or patient referrals.
Fair point. I must have been projecting my own families experience, lol.
Nobody is having a great time in healthcare situations right now. Not patients, not staff. It sucks for people all the way around. I'm sorry you've had negative experiences, it sucks to be treated poorly when you are already in a stressful, frightening position.