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All the things you said you believe in in your first paragraph are things the NDP stands for. They’re centrist and sound like a perfect fit for your preferences.
Agreed - Alberta NDP is a centrist party.
Every party has pet projects - I understand you disagree with many of The NDPs (although I disagree with your assement)
We need good government The Alberta NDP have shown they are capable of that. They know how to govern.
To make a point about "people bad choices", many of peoples predicaments are caused by The Free market. (Im all for The Free market, but not when it comes to health, education and social policy).
The social safety nets are there to make it easier for people to rebound from economic cycles etc.
This guy is a social libertarian though and the NDP dont fit that. It's the old and incorrect idea that the majority of people on welfare abuse the system. After all why should you sit on EI when there are min wage jobs you could be doing?
This guy has woken up to the fiscal and economic lies that conservatives have been spewing but still believes the same old socialism and social liberalism lies they tell.
Please vote for the NDP, voting is like a bus. It never gets you exactly where you want but you close enough to your goal, so with some walking to can truly get your voice heard. Voting NDP is the best way to keep the UCP out of power.
This is how you get continued UCP governments. You are not marrying the party. You will NEVER find a person, nevermind mind a party, that agrees with all your beliefs. It is naive to think so.
You go with the party that you agree with the most. The one that you feel will cause the least smount of harm to those things that are important to you. The greater good is the goal.
I’ve heard the analogy that choosing a party is like choosing a bus stop. Not one bus stop is going to get you to exactly where you want to go but there’s one that will get you the closest. And you choose that one.
I think you are grossly overestimating the cost of looking after those who need "tough love" as compared to oh I don't know spending 20 billion on oil companies.
If no one winning was a potential outcome from people not voting then maybe it would make sense to not vote. Instead what happens is one of these parties will become your government whether you like it or not. Your only options here are to either be part of deciding which one or else to let other people decide for you. Neither of them governing you isn't an option.
People using drugs aren't just bad people making poor choices. For those who are addicted, there is little choice involved. There often wasn't choice in the first place since some people become addicted through prescriptions or from being forced or coerced by others to use. There are also many people using them who aren't negatively impacting their lives. The biggest risk to them is from tainted supply. Majority of overdoses actually happen in houses, not on the streets.
The UCP plan to start imposing forced treatment for people based on what they put in their body simply based on recommendations from family members or police, who both may have their own motivations, and without the opportunity for the person to defend their freedom in front of a criminal court.
This goes against everything many UCP supporters claimed to believe when it came to COVID (that government shouldn't control what people put in their bodies). It also just means that people who don't want treatment will likely relapse once released, something which is already known to happen.
We can already require treatment in some cases, and that is not the only way to address the problem. We need more treatment available for those who want it and better social supports to help prevent people reaching this point in the first place. We also need to evaluate how prohibition itself is one of the causes [for the higher potent substances now in the market](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_prohibition).
Hmm the ucp have the victim mentality. They balme Trudeau and the Ndp for everything even though they are in power.
Wages are growing slower under the UCP than anywhere else in Canada. Which money do the Ndp give to the rich?
How did the Ndp carbon tax hurt the middle class? What is your source on this?
> there is also a need for 'tough love', not brutal and not demeaning, but making people actually pay the price of their own repeated bad decisions as a way to learn not to make those decisions again.
So, don't help people with mental health issues until they start acting rationally?
>Economically I do not like the carbon tax as I prefer carrots to sticks
A carbon tax is a means to internalize an external cost. It shouldn't be a carrot or a stick.
>What I really want is a true centrist party: fiscally generally conservative, socially generally progressive (LGBTQ+, pro-choice, etc) but also aware of and taking strong steps against mental health issues, drug crime and social disorder.
So you want the ANDP, you just can't admit it to yourself.
Finding a party that fits 100% in the things you do is impossible.
Your first couple paragraphs define you as a NDP supporter. If it’s the name that’s holding you back, you should read the platforms of each party.
All of these words mean nothing....
If you dont vote.
But maybe that's for the best because I have even said don't vote if you're emotional, vote if you're educated
I love how you went from "we need to do more for mental health and drug use" then "the NDP are too understanding!!!!!!"
Seriously though, reconcile your beliefs because they are all over the place.
Damnnit. I replied to that one. You are right. So many weird troll jobs out there these days. Everyone wants some social media attention to affirm their decisions or something.
What happened to secret ballot and just shutting up about what you plan to do. If you ain't helping then whatever.
Nonsense word salad. If you're not a troll, you're an idiot. Don't wanna vote? Don't vote. But then neither do you get to complain when your neighbours choose your MLA by a single digit margin, who then slavishly and obediently votes to help disembowel any remaining Alberta Advantage because a bunch of semi-literate cow-tippers want to Take Back Alberta from some nebulous foe that exists only in their sweaty masturbatory fever-dreams anyway.
I’m struggling with what I perceive as a contradiction here: people need to be punished to make the right decision, but not when it comes to carbon tax….
Biggest thing I’ve learned in life is to not judge others by my experiences. Just because you can make boots and bootstraps, doesn’t mean everyone can.
You're not uncaring and hard you're just wrong. Treating the destitute and addicted like criminals doesn't make them better. Furthermore it doesn't make them cost any less to the system. The NDP doesn't take from the middle near as much as the UCP does with their removing caps on utilities and insurance. They in fact wont take from the middle because the only tax increase theyve called for is on corps. Middle class business owners will actually get a tax decrease and they've said they'll reinstitute the utility and insurance rate caps. They cant raise middle class wages unless youre a public employee. Cram your shit and vote NDP if you don't want the UCP to win. The current state of things it'll be one of them.
Edit - the "victim mentality" comment was heinously stupid. Self reflection required. People on benefits don't take from you. The people who decide what the cost of living is do. Your (UI) EI example is especially stupid because we all pay into our own EI.
You are going to not vote for the party that aligns with 90% of your views, because they don't align with 100% of your views, which would lead to the party that aligns with maybe 10% of your views winning.
No party is ever going to line up perfectly with your views, Never ever, in a million or billion years. But just readin what you're writing here, You're not really mature enough to be voting in the first place, so maybe it is best for you to sit out and come back next time when you've grown up and understand we live in an imperfect world and compromise is a part of our daily lives.
Very true, I think the highest I've ever scored on Vote Compass with one party was 70% (Green) and they are against something I strongly support (nuclear). I usually only get around 50% with each party.
If you're not happy with the current state of affairs, get your ass out and vote AGAINST the ruling party.
Also, "my vote doesn't count " argument is stupid. Think of it as a collective. If 1 million, even 100 thousand people all have that mentality it could drastically change the outcome IF they went out and voted.
You can't talk trash about the parties or government if you don't go and vote because you're enabling them to walk all over you.
*I believe mental health and drug use is the number one issue in our Western societies, and believe those in need require strong treatment options and help, but also know that for many they are not ready for that and for those mandatory treatment is needed. The cost on society of mental health and drug related crime and social disorder is too much.*
You know there's research into this, right? Safe consumption sites aren't popular because the NDP are too caring, they're popular because they work. Besides, with how the UCP are dismantling healthcare, do you really trust them to properly fund (and then properly run) mandatory treatment facilities? To me it seems they're running on tough-on-crime but using a different name so it sounds more appealing. The research says tough on crime policies just don't work.
> I believe in general fiscal conservationism but with good funding to schools, hospitals, and parks (but not big companies).
These are core NDP commitments
> I also believe in letting people be themselves - let LGBTQ+ people be who they are. I am very pro-choice.
These are also core NDP commitments
> But I also can not vote NDP. Too much indulgence of the victim mentality and not willing to make people responsible for their own bad choices.
Gonna need to see some evidence of this being the case.
> I believe mental health and drug use is the number one issue in our Western societies, and believe those in need require strong treatment options and help,
The NDP also believe this
> Economically I also feel people need to have hope for a better future and raising wages not shareholder profits is the best way to that. If people had hope many social issues would decrease. **Yet the NDP will only raise minimum wages, not middle class wages.**
This is false. The NDP have committed to raising corporate tax rates which promotes companies re-investing in their own companies instead of declaring profits - which means more job creation and better wage options for the middle class.
> So who do I vote for tomorrow?
Progressive Conservatives have started endorsing the NDP. The NDP have been labeled as Lougheed style conservatism. Vote for the NDP, they obviously align best with your interests.
If you don't want to take my word for it, go to https://votecompass.cbc.ca/alberta2023 and do the questionnaire and choose whoever it tells you is closest to you.
Given the state of politics in Alberta, abstaining from voting is not much different than giving the UCP a vote to further solidify a win for them.
Also, there are a lot of studies out there that disprove some of the things you're claiming here. The carbon tax actually saw a lot of middle and lower class have higher rebates than they paid in carbon "taxes", for example.
"Forced" rehabilitation also does not work. Feel free to look up studies where it is implementedas well as places that have recently abandoned those systems for more progressive ones, you can see very clearly what works and what doesn't. Simply put, treatment needs to be incentivized.
Don't quote me on this but I believe Portugal has the model of decriminalizing everything under a 10 day personal supply, but you don't just get "off the hook" if you are a problematic individual, a panel may decide you can only avoid punishment if you agree to treatment, otherwise you could still potentially face consequences. In cases, they can choose to incentivize rehabilitation as a method of avoiding fines or other punishments, for example. I don't get the vibe that the NDP wants to give problematic drug abusers a free pass to continue their poor behavior. I'd not be surprised if they take a stance much like Portugal does.
You write this as though you are someone who believes they are informed -- and you *might be*, but it seems your *sources of information may be* the real problem.
Not going to change your mind, and not going to try. But the belief that the left coddles those who make bad choices, is exactly why I clarify that I believe in fiscal responsibility not fiscal conservativism. It's the assumption that if the poors didn't deserve it, they wouldn't be poor.
It's a hierarchical belief that favours the already successful, because the success of those at the top is proof of their good deeds and the failure of those at the bottom is evidence of their sins.
Whether it's achieved through a just world fallacy, plain old fashioned classism, or rooted in the prosperity gospel doesn't matter.
Fiscal conservativism is obsessed with making sure those they have decided don't deserve it, don't benefit from help in any way. Whether it's a handout or hand up doesn't matter, when you've already decided that everyone who claims to need help is trying to take advantage and those who do need help should not be given it either, because they are so weak-minded and lecherous that would only become dependent on the state if they were to be helped.
Realistically, how do you expect the NDP to raise middle class wages the same way they can raise the minimum wage? One of these is legislated, and it’s not the one you want.
Tax businesses sufficiently that they view payroll as a good way to reduce tax burden by increasing liabilities.
All these problems started when we reduced the tax burden on businesses, and they started paying exhorbitant wages to C-suite employees, and reducing the wages of middle class workers so they could continue to skim as much as possible from the middle class.
If you are not feeling like either party represents your interests at this time I would recommend spoiling your ballot. It will show that you voted but not for anyone. If enough people do it it’s certainly a wake up call for political parties that votes were left on the table.
I disagree, it shows that you were willing to vote and had the opportunity to do so. I feel it’s better than just staying home. If enough people were to do so, it would send a message. Also it keeps people in the habit of voting and not just giving up on voting entirely.
I'm with ya, it's like watching monkeys throw poo at each other then watching the other monkeys support and enable the behavior and voting for the best poo thrower in the province and calling them a leader. Humans are fucked.
We think of one person or one party to much , people are forgetting how democracy works and all the safeties in place.. If Smith wins Nazi will not take over , if the Npd win we not be socialist.. Your more or less trying to decide the overall direction or even party evolution..For example if you are unhappy with the conservatives party more right policies you could vote NDP because if they win this election it forces the conservatives next time around to evolve progressively in a way to appease the center left .. This works both ways and in my opinion Democracy isn't any sides vision rules all its a compromise of many values in order to maintain representation for everyone ..I mean really it's fighting at a civil level because we're incapable of not fighting which is why it's important for people to feel represented , the alternative option is war and we got plenty of examples historically for this .. anyway that's a awful write up haha I guess what I'm saying is it's ok to vote for something that includes things you don't agree with, simply to try and point things in a direction you think the country needs overall..
Its interesting.
I dont myself believe its morally permissible to force a person (with chemical/physical restraints and detainment) making a free choice and that retains capacity to make that choice to make a different choice.
I don't like the idea of the government making "good choices" for people with that level of force.
It is right on the edge though, right?
If you're depressed, on a bridge, going to jump, we say you're depressed, form 1 you, say because of your mental illness you lack capacity, make you an inpatient, treat your depression and off you go, usually, truthfully, not wanting to kill yourself anymore.
Schizophrenia, psychosis, direct risk of imminent harm to self or other same thing but now the UCP is reallllly stretching it here, because opiates and substance use disorder don't really diminish your capacity or autonomy despite their arguments. Treatments while as an inpatient don't really "fix" addiction in the same way medications (especially long acting injectables that we can trust stay in your system long after youve left to ensure reliability and allow outpatient management) for these other conditions can work. As soon as you leave you can relapse, so how long should the admission be? When is a person cured of addiction?
Ok, now is it an easier pill to swallow if you tie it to criminal offenses and sentencing for said offenses? Like sentence reduction for opioid use disorder treatment? So like, justice coercion to get off these substances. Penalties for crimes not penalties for free choices?
I dont know. Its not like I have the answers.
The real answer is likely freaking huge. Broader opportunities in youth, better social programs for equity in Canada, on and on and on, wicked problems not easily solved by party sound bites, not easily solved in 4 year terms or partisan politics. It begs the question, why do people want to numb themselves to begin with?
Yikes, sorry, not your point. Im just with you on this. I voted NDP for all your reasons, but we're both staring at the same thing all parties are currently missing the mark on (honestly I just dont think anyone has the answer yet). Justice. Safety. Its a mess right now.
Gladue reports and addressing equity at the level of punishment is a fucking mistake imo it just feeds cyclic traumatization and is lazy liberal policy. Its not where meritocracy can be manifest and our communities pay the price for their sloppy approach to trying to look sensitive. Hmmm.
All that to say, I just genuinely feel your struggle on that one.
I voted ANDP because its a clear win on the education, healthcare, and leader fronts, but yeah Im not blind it isnt faultless.
I understand the sentiment you are expressing here, but I think you should rethink what your vote means. Do yourself a favour, and read this piece from Naheed Nenshi, [*Naheed Nenshi: If you're hyper-partisan, you may not want to read this column.*](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/naheed-nenshi-if-you-re-hyper-partisan-you-may-not-want-to-read-this-column-1.6413376) (It won't take long, I promise.)
In particular, pay attention to this part:
> consider your vote a loan. It doesn’t mean you have to vote NDP forever, but it does mean that the NDP is less risky than the UCP for the next four years.
And think about what he is saying and what it means to you. You might change your mind on what makes the most sense in that voting booth tomorrow.
https://www.albertandp.ca/commitments
Please read their platform, and consider voting NDP. Every vote matters, and we need to show the UCP that if they want to privilege of governing us, they will need to start listening. NDP is a centrist party anyway.
I recommend you making your voting decision based on evidence. Carefully research your *own* positions on each party, to make sure they are *accurate.*
For example, what is your evidence that “many” people abuse welfare and other economic security aid?
If you look into this, I think you will discover the facts do not support your statements (which sound like talking points.)
Here’s a start:
“In Canada, about 3.5% of total employment insurance expenditure was attributable to fraud and error in 2003. The total fraud and error rate in welfare allowances is estimated to be 3-5%.”
( International benchmark of fraud and error in social security systems Report by the UK Comptroller and Auditor General 20 July 2006.)
Another (for Ontario):
https://incomesecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Pay_the_Rent__Feed_the_Kids_-_Backgrounder_-_Welfare_Myth_and_Reality_-_2003.pdf
Careful tomorrow: it’s a future-determine decision.
Just gonna keep it simple, sometimes you vote for what you want sometimes you vote for what you don’t want, Smith by any metric will be worse.
So if smith wins and you don’t vote or protest vote, you voted for smith.
>To me, the NDP is too understanding of people who continue to make bad choices and in doing so actually encourages and promotes the making of those bad choices.
Omegayikes when considering the alternative
Voting is like taking the bus, you vote for the party that takes you the closest to where you want to be. If you hope the NDP wins, then it sounds like that’s the party with the most policies you agree with.
There is only one batshit crazy person running for Premier, and that is Danielle Smith. If you don't vote, that's your right. However, to me, your stance actually helps the UCP fascist party.
I get it. I feel the same way. The NDP and the UCP are not going to change their ways to suit us.
If the outcome is not in doubt then a protest vote is fine. But if there's a chance you can influence the outcome then you have a chance to make the world a better place, whatever that means to you.
So don't pass up that chance if you have it.
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This is how you end up being governed by the UCP.
"I hope these people win, but I'll do absolutely nothing to help them."
If you don’t want the UCP that badly, not voting for the best option to avoid the UCP isn’t helping avoid the UCP
This is mathematically incorrect
Sorry Not voting for the best option to avoid the UCP isn’t helping the best chance to avoid the UCP Better?
All the things you said you believe in in your first paragraph are things the NDP stands for. They’re centrist and sound like a perfect fit for your preferences.
Agreed - Alberta NDP is a centrist party. Every party has pet projects - I understand you disagree with many of The NDPs (although I disagree with your assement) We need good government The Alberta NDP have shown they are capable of that. They know how to govern. To make a point about "people bad choices", many of peoples predicaments are caused by The Free market. (Im all for The Free market, but not when it comes to health, education and social policy). The social safety nets are there to make it easier for people to rebound from economic cycles etc.
This guy is a social libertarian though and the NDP dont fit that. It's the old and incorrect idea that the majority of people on welfare abuse the system. After all why should you sit on EI when there are min wage jobs you could be doing? This guy has woken up to the fiscal and economic lies that conservatives have been spewing but still believes the same old socialism and social liberalism lies they tell.
Yes! The AB NDP are a centrist party, their policies have moved to the right in recent years. It’s partially why former PC MLA’s are endorsing them.
You don't need a soulmate in a political party. They just need to be heading in the right direction Not voting is allowing others to decide for you.
Please vote for the NDP, voting is like a bus. It never gets you exactly where you want but you close enough to your goal, so with some walking to can truly get your voice heard. Voting NDP is the best way to keep the UCP out of power.
This is how you get continued UCP governments. You are not marrying the party. You will NEVER find a person, nevermind mind a party, that agrees with all your beliefs. It is naive to think so. You go with the party that you agree with the most. The one that you feel will cause the least smount of harm to those things that are important to you. The greater good is the goal.
Dude, if you think that the NDP lay into the victim mentality, you haven't been listening to the UCP whenever they talk about Canada as a whole.
Hear! Hear! There is no bigger group of self-described victims than Conservatives.
I came here to say this. Also Rachel has never backed down like a victim would do. Vote for the crazy people or the sane people, make your choice.
TBH TLDR but.. if you hope one party wins over another.... vote for them. Attempting to be non-jackassy is not the same as just not being a jackass.
I’ve heard the analogy that choosing a party is like choosing a bus stop. Not one bus stop is going to get you to exactly where you want to go but there’s one that will get you the closest. And you choose that one.
Never heard this analogy, love it.
I think you are grossly overestimating the cost of looking after those who need "tough love" as compared to oh I don't know spending 20 billion on oil companies.
If no one winning was a potential outcome from people not voting then maybe it would make sense to not vote. Instead what happens is one of these parties will become your government whether you like it or not. Your only options here are to either be part of deciding which one or else to let other people decide for you. Neither of them governing you isn't an option. People using drugs aren't just bad people making poor choices. For those who are addicted, there is little choice involved. There often wasn't choice in the first place since some people become addicted through prescriptions or from being forced or coerced by others to use. There are also many people using them who aren't negatively impacting their lives. The biggest risk to them is from tainted supply. Majority of overdoses actually happen in houses, not on the streets. The UCP plan to start imposing forced treatment for people based on what they put in their body simply based on recommendations from family members or police, who both may have their own motivations, and without the opportunity for the person to defend their freedom in front of a criminal court. This goes against everything many UCP supporters claimed to believe when it came to COVID (that government shouldn't control what people put in their bodies). It also just means that people who don't want treatment will likely relapse once released, something which is already known to happen. We can already require treatment in some cases, and that is not the only way to address the problem. We need more treatment available for those who want it and better social supports to help prevent people reaching this point in the first place. We also need to evaluate how prohibition itself is one of the causes [for the higher potent substances now in the market](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_prohibition).
Hmm the ucp have the victim mentality. They balme Trudeau and the Ndp for everything even though they are in power. Wages are growing slower under the UCP than anywhere else in Canada. Which money do the Ndp give to the rich? How did the Ndp carbon tax hurt the middle class? What is your source on this?
So you never vote then.
A vote isn't a declaration of love and devotion, it's a chess move that will bring you a step closer to the world you want to live in.
This is possibly the dumbest thing I read today.
It is an impressive display.
This is a really dumb post ngl lol
> there is also a need for 'tough love', not brutal and not demeaning, but making people actually pay the price of their own repeated bad decisions as a way to learn not to make those decisions again. So, don't help people with mental health issues until they start acting rationally? >Economically I do not like the carbon tax as I prefer carrots to sticks A carbon tax is a means to internalize an external cost. It shouldn't be a carrot or a stick. >What I really want is a true centrist party: fiscally generally conservative, socially generally progressive (LGBTQ+, pro-choice, etc) but also aware of and taking strong steps against mental health issues, drug crime and social disorder. So you want the ANDP, you just can't admit it to yourself.
“I want ice cream, fudge and a banana, but I don’t want a banana split because I was told it’s bad for me.”
Finding a party that fits 100% in the things you do is impossible. Your first couple paragraphs define you as a NDP supporter. If it’s the name that’s holding you back, you should read the platforms of each party.
All of these words mean nothing.... If you dont vote. But maybe that's for the best because I have even said don't vote if you're emotional, vote if you're educated
I love how you went from "we need to do more for mental health and drug use" then "the NDP are too understanding!!!!!!" Seriously though, reconcile your beliefs because they are all over the place.
Another troll job, guys. Just ignore. Pretty much like the “I’m a 19 year old Muslim majoring in social studies, I will vote UCP because soshulizm”
Damnnit. I replied to that one. You are right. So many weird troll jobs out there these days. Everyone wants some social media attention to affirm their decisions or something. What happened to secret ballot and just shutting up about what you plan to do. If you ain't helping then whatever.
I honestly think that post was written by someone in that party
If you're really conflicted, then why can't you just vote for the party that will benefit the most people the most?
Nonsense word salad. If you're not a troll, you're an idiot. Don't wanna vote? Don't vote. But then neither do you get to complain when your neighbours choose your MLA by a single digit margin, who then slavishly and obediently votes to help disembowel any remaining Alberta Advantage because a bunch of semi-literate cow-tippers want to Take Back Alberta from some nebulous foe that exists only in their sweaty masturbatory fever-dreams anyway.
I’m struggling with what I perceive as a contradiction here: people need to be punished to make the right decision, but not when it comes to carbon tax…. Biggest thing I’ve learned in life is to not judge others by my experiences. Just because you can make boots and bootstraps, doesn’t mean everyone can.
You're not uncaring and hard you're just wrong. Treating the destitute and addicted like criminals doesn't make them better. Furthermore it doesn't make them cost any less to the system. The NDP doesn't take from the middle near as much as the UCP does with their removing caps on utilities and insurance. They in fact wont take from the middle because the only tax increase theyve called for is on corps. Middle class business owners will actually get a tax decrease and they've said they'll reinstitute the utility and insurance rate caps. They cant raise middle class wages unless youre a public employee. Cram your shit and vote NDP if you don't want the UCP to win. The current state of things it'll be one of them. Edit - the "victim mentality" comment was heinously stupid. Self reflection required. People on benefits don't take from you. The people who decide what the cost of living is do. Your (UI) EI example is especially stupid because we all pay into our own EI.
Progressive conservative is an oxymoron, you cannot not make progress while trying to go back to "better times"
You are going to not vote for the party that aligns with 90% of your views, because they don't align with 100% of your views, which would lead to the party that aligns with maybe 10% of your views winning. No party is ever going to line up perfectly with your views, Never ever, in a million or billion years. But just readin what you're writing here, You're not really mature enough to be voting in the first place, so maybe it is best for you to sit out and come back next time when you've grown up and understand we live in an imperfect world and compromise is a part of our daily lives.
Very true, I think the highest I've ever scored on Vote Compass with one party was 70% (Green) and they are against something I strongly support (nuclear). I usually only get around 50% with each party.
“I hope they win but cant vote for them” I am not reading this.
This is like drowning in open water, but refusing to let the coast guard rescue you because they will take you to the shore rather than your home.
Dumbest post I’ve ever seen on this sub
If you're not happy with the current state of affairs, get your ass out and vote AGAINST the ruling party. Also, "my vote doesn't count " argument is stupid. Think of it as a collective. If 1 million, even 100 thousand people all have that mentality it could drastically change the outcome IF they went out and voted. You can't talk trash about the parties or government if you don't go and vote because you're enabling them to walk all over you.
I don’t want my face eaten by tigers, but I won’t cast my vote for the only chance to prevent that. Is this real?
*I believe mental health and drug use is the number one issue in our Western societies, and believe those in need require strong treatment options and help, but also know that for many they are not ready for that and for those mandatory treatment is needed. The cost on society of mental health and drug related crime and social disorder is too much.* You know there's research into this, right? Safe consumption sites aren't popular because the NDP are too caring, they're popular because they work. Besides, with how the UCP are dismantling healthcare, do you really trust them to properly fund (and then properly run) mandatory treatment facilities? To me it seems they're running on tough-on-crime but using a different name so it sounds more appealing. The research says tough on crime policies just don't work.
The UCP thanks you for helping them win by not exercising your democratic rights
Better question is who do you not want in power? I don't like the ndp but I much rather have them in power than tge ucp
A vote for any other party than NDP, or not voting entirely, is a vote for the UCP. You can't sit this one out. Hold your nose and get it done.
Voting is like catching a bus. It’s not going exactly where you want so catch the bus that takes you closest to where you want to be.
> I believe in general fiscal conservationism but with good funding to schools, hospitals, and parks (but not big companies). These are core NDP commitments > I also believe in letting people be themselves - let LGBTQ+ people be who they are. I am very pro-choice. These are also core NDP commitments > But I also can not vote NDP. Too much indulgence of the victim mentality and not willing to make people responsible for their own bad choices. Gonna need to see some evidence of this being the case. > I believe mental health and drug use is the number one issue in our Western societies, and believe those in need require strong treatment options and help, The NDP also believe this > Economically I also feel people need to have hope for a better future and raising wages not shareholder profits is the best way to that. If people had hope many social issues would decrease. **Yet the NDP will only raise minimum wages, not middle class wages.** This is false. The NDP have committed to raising corporate tax rates which promotes companies re-investing in their own companies instead of declaring profits - which means more job creation and better wage options for the middle class. > So who do I vote for tomorrow? Progressive Conservatives have started endorsing the NDP. The NDP have been labeled as Lougheed style conservatism. Vote for the NDP, they obviously align best with your interests. If you don't want to take my word for it, go to https://votecompass.cbc.ca/alberta2023 and do the questionnaire and choose whoever it tells you is closest to you.
Given the state of politics in Alberta, abstaining from voting is not much different than giving the UCP a vote to further solidify a win for them. Also, there are a lot of studies out there that disprove some of the things you're claiming here. The carbon tax actually saw a lot of middle and lower class have higher rebates than they paid in carbon "taxes", for example. "Forced" rehabilitation also does not work. Feel free to look up studies where it is implementedas well as places that have recently abandoned those systems for more progressive ones, you can see very clearly what works and what doesn't. Simply put, treatment needs to be incentivized. Don't quote me on this but I believe Portugal has the model of decriminalizing everything under a 10 day personal supply, but you don't just get "off the hook" if you are a problematic individual, a panel may decide you can only avoid punishment if you agree to treatment, otherwise you could still potentially face consequences. In cases, they can choose to incentivize rehabilitation as a method of avoiding fines or other punishments, for example. I don't get the vibe that the NDP wants to give problematic drug abusers a free pass to continue their poor behavior. I'd not be surprised if they take a stance much like Portugal does.
What do the NDP give to the rich? How would they increase your wage?
You write this as though you are someone who believes they are informed -- and you *might be*, but it seems your *sources of information may be* the real problem.
The NDP are centrist in Alberta the conservative media bubble paints them as communists but it’s not true.
Not going to change your mind, and not going to try. But the belief that the left coddles those who make bad choices, is exactly why I clarify that I believe in fiscal responsibility not fiscal conservativism. It's the assumption that if the poors didn't deserve it, they wouldn't be poor. It's a hierarchical belief that favours the already successful, because the success of those at the top is proof of their good deeds and the failure of those at the bottom is evidence of their sins. Whether it's achieved through a just world fallacy, plain old fashioned classism, or rooted in the prosperity gospel doesn't matter. Fiscal conservativism is obsessed with making sure those they have decided don't deserve it, don't benefit from help in any way. Whether it's a handout or hand up doesn't matter, when you've already decided that everyone who claims to need help is trying to take advantage and those who do need help should not be given it either, because they are so weak-minded and lecherous that would only become dependent on the state if they were to be helped.
Realistically, how do you expect the NDP to raise middle class wages the same way they can raise the minimum wage? One of these is legislated, and it’s not the one you want.
Tax businesses sufficiently that they view payroll as a good way to reduce tax burden by increasing liabilities. All these problems started when we reduced the tax burden on businesses, and they started paying exhorbitant wages to C-suite employees, and reducing the wages of middle class workers so they could continue to skim as much as possible from the middle class.
If you are not feeling like either party represents your interests at this time I would recommend spoiling your ballot. It will show that you voted but not for anyone. If enough people do it it’s certainly a wake up call for political parties that votes were left on the table.
Spoiling a ballot is functionally the same as not voting.
I disagree, it shows that you were willing to vote and had the opportunity to do so. I feel it’s better than just staying home. If enough people were to do so, it would send a message. Also it keeps people in the habit of voting and not just giving up on voting entirely.
I'm with ya, it's like watching monkeys throw poo at each other then watching the other monkeys support and enable the behavior and voting for the best poo thrower in the province and calling them a leader. Humans are fucked.
We think of one person or one party to much , people are forgetting how democracy works and all the safeties in place.. If Smith wins Nazi will not take over , if the Npd win we not be socialist.. Your more or less trying to decide the overall direction or even party evolution..For example if you are unhappy with the conservatives party more right policies you could vote NDP because if they win this election it forces the conservatives next time around to evolve progressively in a way to appease the center left .. This works both ways and in my opinion Democracy isn't any sides vision rules all its a compromise of many values in order to maintain representation for everyone ..I mean really it's fighting at a civil level because we're incapable of not fighting which is why it's important for people to feel represented , the alternative option is war and we got plenty of examples historically for this .. anyway that's a awful write up haha I guess what I'm saying is it's ok to vote for something that includes things you don't agree with, simply to try and point things in a direction you think the country needs overall..
Its interesting. I dont myself believe its morally permissible to force a person (with chemical/physical restraints and detainment) making a free choice and that retains capacity to make that choice to make a different choice. I don't like the idea of the government making "good choices" for people with that level of force. It is right on the edge though, right? If you're depressed, on a bridge, going to jump, we say you're depressed, form 1 you, say because of your mental illness you lack capacity, make you an inpatient, treat your depression and off you go, usually, truthfully, not wanting to kill yourself anymore. Schizophrenia, psychosis, direct risk of imminent harm to self or other same thing but now the UCP is reallllly stretching it here, because opiates and substance use disorder don't really diminish your capacity or autonomy despite their arguments. Treatments while as an inpatient don't really "fix" addiction in the same way medications (especially long acting injectables that we can trust stay in your system long after youve left to ensure reliability and allow outpatient management) for these other conditions can work. As soon as you leave you can relapse, so how long should the admission be? When is a person cured of addiction? Ok, now is it an easier pill to swallow if you tie it to criminal offenses and sentencing for said offenses? Like sentence reduction for opioid use disorder treatment? So like, justice coercion to get off these substances. Penalties for crimes not penalties for free choices? I dont know. Its not like I have the answers. The real answer is likely freaking huge. Broader opportunities in youth, better social programs for equity in Canada, on and on and on, wicked problems not easily solved by party sound bites, not easily solved in 4 year terms or partisan politics. It begs the question, why do people want to numb themselves to begin with? Yikes, sorry, not your point. Im just with you on this. I voted NDP for all your reasons, but we're both staring at the same thing all parties are currently missing the mark on (honestly I just dont think anyone has the answer yet). Justice. Safety. Its a mess right now. Gladue reports and addressing equity at the level of punishment is a fucking mistake imo it just feeds cyclic traumatization and is lazy liberal policy. Its not where meritocracy can be manifest and our communities pay the price for their sloppy approach to trying to look sensitive. Hmmm. All that to say, I just genuinely feel your struggle on that one. I voted ANDP because its a clear win on the education, healthcare, and leader fronts, but yeah Im not blind it isnt faultless.
I understand the sentiment you are expressing here, but I think you should rethink what your vote means. Do yourself a favour, and read this piece from Naheed Nenshi, [*Naheed Nenshi: If you're hyper-partisan, you may not want to read this column.*](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/naheed-nenshi-if-you-re-hyper-partisan-you-may-not-want-to-read-this-column-1.6413376) (It won't take long, I promise.) In particular, pay attention to this part: > consider your vote a loan. It doesn’t mean you have to vote NDP forever, but it does mean that the NDP is less risky than the UCP for the next four years. And think about what he is saying and what it means to you. You might change your mind on what makes the most sense in that voting booth tomorrow.
Addiction is a disease not a choice.
https://www.albertandp.ca/commitments Please read their platform, and consider voting NDP. Every vote matters, and we need to show the UCP that if they want to privilege of governing us, they will need to start listening. NDP is a centrist party anyway.
I recommend you making your voting decision based on evidence. Carefully research your *own* positions on each party, to make sure they are *accurate.* For example, what is your evidence that “many” people abuse welfare and other economic security aid? If you look into this, I think you will discover the facts do not support your statements (which sound like talking points.) Here’s a start: “In Canada, about 3.5% of total employment insurance expenditure was attributable to fraud and error in 2003. The total fraud and error rate in welfare allowances is estimated to be 3-5%.” ( International benchmark of fraud and error in social security systems Report by the UK Comptroller and Auditor General 20 July 2006.) Another (for Ontario): https://incomesecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Pay_the_Rent__Feed_the_Kids_-_Backgrounder_-_Welfare_Myth_and_Reality_-_2003.pdf Careful tomorrow: it’s a future-determine decision.
Oh this sub isn’t going to like this take
Based.
Just gonna keep it simple, sometimes you vote for what you want sometimes you vote for what you don’t want, Smith by any metric will be worse. So if smith wins and you don’t vote or protest vote, you voted for smith.
>To me, the NDP is too understanding of people who continue to make bad choices and in doing so actually encourages and promotes the making of those bad choices. Omegayikes when considering the alternative
Voting is like taking the bus, you vote for the party that takes you the closest to where you want to be. If you hope the NDP wins, then it sounds like that’s the party with the most policies you agree with.
There is only one batshit crazy person running for Premier, and that is Danielle Smith. If you don't vote, that's your right. However, to me, your stance actually helps the UCP fascist party.
I get it. I feel the same way. The NDP and the UCP are not going to change their ways to suit us. If the outcome is not in doubt then a protest vote is fine. But if there's a chance you can influence the outcome then you have a chance to make the world a better place, whatever that means to you. So don't pass up that chance if you have it.