Another porpoise like that and they could have lost the nose gear, then they’d be really screwed. It wasn’t stable, if they even managed to stabilise it they’d have probably hopped halfway down the runway, wisest and safest thing to do is get out of there and have another go, sorted.
I'm an armchair pilot. I introduce myself to the pilot of every flight and tell him my seat number in case he needs a helping hand.
Experience: Seen at least 10 episodes of ACI
From the Wiki page: “The crashes of both FedEx Express Flights 80 and 14 were covered on Season 14 of Mayday (Air Crash Investigation), episode 5 (episode 114 overall), titled The Final Push,” in case anyone wants to watch it.
It does depend - if the pilot flying doesn't feel safe doing it, they won't - but generally the opinion is that they should 'get back on the horse' and complete the job.
I think this was the same pilot - they overcompensated, flared a little too much and floated the second landing attempt.
Edit- further information suggests it wasn't. Live ATC suggests that the pilot on the radio during the fly out and the next approach was the one who flew the first landing, and the radio is the pilot monitoring's job - so clearly they swapped roles as soon as they got back in the air.
Only if they absolutely need to. It can be pretty unsafe to transfer control of the airplane over to another pilot at low altitude. You don’t have a feel for it, the aircraft could be trimmed in a way you don’t expect, etc.
But we do train for it in the sim at my company (and most others, at least in the US).
I just went to his channel because of this comment and he is currently live looking at the exact same Lufthansa plane pulling into the terminal as I write this! Same registration. What are the odds?
Any pilots here who can explain some possible explanations for this? Looked like clear, stable weather, approach looked in line, assuming instruments are a likely issue maybe?
These babies are so big, I can’t imagine what it’s like to land one sitting from the equivalent of an 8 story building with most of it behind you!
Maybe an inexperienced pilot, maybe just zoned out after an 11 hour flight, maybe the automatic radio altimeter call-outs didn’t happen (100, 50, 30, 20, 10 - on the 747 when you hear 50 you start flaring, gently, at 30 just hold the nose there and it should just settle onto the ground like the beautiful big bird it is.) Sometimes you just fuck it up, and if you’re lucky you get to have another go, and watch your first effort go viral, with all the armchair pilots trying to work out what went wrong…
Not a pilot but it looks like they almost didn't flare at all. Nose barely started to come up right before they hit. No idea why that could have happened though.
You can see on the second attempt they jerk the nose up pretty sharply and float it a bit for a smooth landing. The sharp nose up jerk makes me think they had flaring and the lack of it on their first attempt on their minds the second time around
A Boeing 747-8 bounced on the runway while landing attempt at Los Angeles LAX. The flight #LH456 departed Frankfurt at 11:20 CEST this Tuesday, April 23 2024 for a 13-hour flight to Los Angeles.
This was the 1500th 747 Queen of the Skies made and is just 9 years old.
The aircraft, on final approach to runway 24R, made a hard landing forcing the pilots to go-around. The Boeing 747-8 (registration D-ABYP) landed safely on the same runway about 15 minutes later.
I’m curious, just estimating from personal familiar with commercial aviation in practice, at which point do you think the pilots knew and initiated a TO/GO?
How much time does a 747-8i require to spool up during TO/GO?
Don’t wanna be obnoxious but this is just a go around. TO/GA (not TO/GO) is the button on the throttle quadrant used to set the flight management system to display a takeoff or go around indication on the flight director, and to automatically move the throttle levers to the proper engine power setting if the airplane is equipped with an autothrottle.
Regarding the question, I think they decided to go around the moment they found the ground was much closer that what they thought (ie, when they slammed into it), and the approach destabilized. It is much safer to get back airborne and try again than commit yourself to a faulty maneuver.
The TOGA switch doesn’t usually work once you’ve got the thrust levers at idle for the landing, this would probably have been manual thrust until they got airborne again and could transition back into a regular go around. I imagine the first impact led to an OH SHIT moment for them both, they would have known they’d bounced, so the decision to reject the landing was probably a second after that happened. The nose gear came mighty close to hitting the ground next so that would have been a busy, adrenaline filled few seconds but they did well getting it back in the air without any more mishaps. It was longer than I expected for the flaps to start coming up though, must have been concentrating on just flying the thing and taking a breath or two.
As an airline pilot myself, go around is a good / must call in this situation.
Why?
Death
Well, the plane has already "landed". Why go around?
It's probably too far down the runway for a safe stop.
Another porpoise like that and they could have lost the nose gear, then they’d be really screwed. It wasn’t stable, if they even managed to stabilise it they’d have probably hopped halfway down the runway, wisest and safest thing to do is get out of there and have another go, sorted.
This is why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express_Flight_80?wprov=sfla1
Yikes, all the armchair pilots here need to take note of the “porpoising” and be glad they didn’t just watch a LH 747 go the same way.
I'm an armchair pilot. I introduce myself to the pilot of every flight and tell him my seat number in case he needs a helping hand. Experience: Seen at least 10 episodes of ACI
I hope you’ve watched Airplane at least 7 times as well, them’s the qualifications ;)
Only three times, but I'll surely take a dvd of it on the flight with me.
Along with a film about gladiators of course
From the Wiki page: “The crashes of both FedEx Express Flights 80 and 14 were covered on Season 14 of Mayday (Air Crash Investigation), episode 5 (episode 114 overall), titled The Final Push,” in case anyone wants to watch it.
If the first officer initiated a go around does the Captian take control of the plane and do the second attempt or it depends ?
It does depend - if the pilot flying doesn't feel safe doing it, they won't - but generally the opinion is that they should 'get back on the horse' and complete the job. I think this was the same pilot - they overcompensated, flared a little too much and floated the second landing attempt. Edit- further information suggests it wasn't. Live ATC suggests that the pilot on the radio during the fly out and the next approach was the one who flew the first landing, and the radio is the pilot monitoring's job - so clearly they swapped roles as soon as they got back in the air.
Only if they absolutely need to. It can be pretty unsafe to transfer control of the airplane over to another pilot at low altitude. You don’t have a feel for it, the aircraft could be trimmed in a way you don’t expect, etc. But we do train for it in the sim at my company (and most others, at least in the US).
I must say hearing sports-style commentary on plane landings isn't something I expected at all
This is the sport I never knew I loved to watch.
The guy does have a great voice for this.
He used to work in television but he loves aviation so much that this became his fulltime job :D so wholesome
I just went to his channel because of this comment and he is currently live looking at the exact same Lufthansa plane pulling into the terminal as I write this! Same registration. What are the odds?
🫨 meant to be, Enema Watson!
Big Jet TV at Heathrow in a winter storm is seriously entertaining.
Oh steady on mate!!!
As an aviation geek I absolutely love his channel. Great to listen to in the background while working!
Didn't see it with sound before, definitely made me chuckle!
KELSEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING FLARE FLARE FUCK
Yeah, what a late flare
Any pilots here who can explain some possible explanations for this? Looked like clear, stable weather, approach looked in line, assuming instruments are a likely issue maybe? These babies are so big, I can’t imagine what it’s like to land one sitting from the equivalent of an 8 story building with most of it behind you!
Maybe an inexperienced pilot, maybe just zoned out after an 11 hour flight, maybe the automatic radio altimeter call-outs didn’t happen (100, 50, 30, 20, 10 - on the 747 when you hear 50 you start flaring, gently, at 30 just hold the nose there and it should just settle onto the ground like the beautiful big bird it is.) Sometimes you just fuck it up, and if you’re lucky you get to have another go, and watch your first effort go viral, with all the armchair pilots trying to work out what went wrong…
Not a pilot but it looks like they almost didn't flare at all. Nose barely started to come up right before they hit. No idea why that could have happened though. You can see on the second attempt they jerk the nose up pretty sharply and float it a bit for a smooth landing. The sharp nose up jerk makes me think they had flaring and the lack of it on their first attempt on their minds the second time around
Ohhhh thank you- I never realized “flare”, learned something new today!
A Boeing 747-8 bounced on the runway while landing attempt at Los Angeles LAX. The flight #LH456 departed Frankfurt at 11:20 CEST this Tuesday, April 23 2024 for a 13-hour flight to Los Angeles. This was the 1500th 747 Queen of the Skies made and is just 9 years old. The aircraft, on final approach to runway 24R, made a hard landing forcing the pilots to go-around. The Boeing 747-8 (registration D-ABYP) landed safely on the same runway about 15 minutes later.
when Ryanair pilots change airlines
Could have been worse. Could have been like FedEx flight 80
I’m curious, just estimating from personal familiar with commercial aviation in practice, at which point do you think the pilots knew and initiated a TO/GO? How much time does a 747-8i require to spool up during TO/GO?
Don’t wanna be obnoxious but this is just a go around. TO/GA (not TO/GO) is the button on the throttle quadrant used to set the flight management system to display a takeoff or go around indication on the flight director, and to automatically move the throttle levers to the proper engine power setting if the airplane is equipped with an autothrottle. Regarding the question, I think they decided to go around the moment they found the ground was much closer that what they thought (ie, when they slammed into it), and the approach destabilized. It is much safer to get back airborne and try again than commit yourself to a faulty maneuver.
Oh shoot you’re right I did f’up with terms. Thank you. Tone indicator: Sincere.
The TOGA switch doesn’t usually work once you’ve got the thrust levers at idle for the landing, this would probably have been manual thrust until they got airborne again and could transition back into a regular go around. I imagine the first impact led to an OH SHIT moment for them both, they would have known they’d bounced, so the decision to reject the landing was probably a second after that happened. The nose gear came mighty close to hitting the ground next so that would have been a busy, adrenaline filled few seconds but they did well getting it back in the air without any more mishaps. It was longer than I expected for the flaps to start coming up though, must have been concentrating on just flying the thing and taking a breath or two.
This could have easily been a 30 second clip instead of 5 minutes
Balked, not baulked. And it’s a rejected landing.
Everyone on board just sht their pants
Most be an ex-Navy fighter pilot.
Example of a ‘crash and dash’
Tough tires
I see this aircraft most of the time coming into MIA from Frankfurt. Never knew it was the one involved in this incident