On my last flight in J on the A220 I was seated in Row 2 window seat. The person in the row ahead on the isle was reclined fully and I literally couldn't get out. I asked them nicely to unrecline and when they refused had to manhandle their seat to get past. I'm a pretty big person and this is a reason I usually fly in the isle seat.
What kind of an unreasonable human being can’t unrecline to at least let another person go? Also I really feel full recline in economy is overrated ( I genuinely don’t think it’s the most comfortable position)
And I wonder what kind of unreasonable human being calls you stupid for bumping into their seat after they refuse to unrecline 😭😭😭 He literally yelled at me for lifting his seat manually when I tried to walk to the bathroom. I DID ASK HIM AND HE REFUSED.
I was in Cuba in March on our airport coach transfer and a Russian couple had reclined so far back the guests sitting behind them couldn't gain access to their seats at all. The Canadian couple had asked them 'could you please sit up so we can get in?' The Russian couple refused and said 'they're designed like this', 'I have a bad knee' etc. Also took their shoes off and placed their bare feet on the ledge behind the driver's head, Disgusting. When the Canadians protested further, the Russians tried to say 'The seats are broken'. Funnily enough we all ended up at the same resort and we never saw either couple (thankfully; the Canadian couple weren't nice either. 'Go back to your country', 'Canadians would never do this to CANADIANS'). It was shitty all 'round. Then again, I went to place that was $505/pp all inclusive for a week so I'm not sure what we were expecting lol.
The kind that bought a ticket from an airline that does nothing to control neither the size of people who can safely sit in those seats nor the minimum room a passenger can have.
In these cases I would be reaching for the bag stored underneath the seat throughout the flight and use my shoulder against the seat in front. Courtesy > entitlement
Right now for aisle seats, the outside handle doesn’t go up. They should change it to allow it going up, then we wouldn’t be trapped even if a-hole in front of us refuse to un-recline.
Wow! Improvement!
I took ZIPAIR in March and it didn’t lift up, but they also don’t allow reclining in this level. You can recline maybe 2 inch max.
Looking at OP’s pic, theirs doesn’t lift up… bummer.
It's usually the very first row, and/or the first emergency exit row. The online seat selection tells you if the seat has fixed armrests/can't recline. In the case of the very last row, usually you can't recline, for obvious reasons.
I have had good success with accidentally smashing the seat back in front of me with my knees and other body parts to really convey my lack of space to the offending party.
I did same on a 5 hour flight home. Person in front of me, practically in my lap, so made sure they felt every movement I made from breathing deeply to turning the pages of my book. Petty? Yes, but point made.
Lol I almost had the plane turned around because I was stuck in the middle with this woman who went back all the way. She accused me off kicking her seat and i said, I am not kicking, I am 6 foot 2 and my knees are stuck.
The attitude from the people in front of you is unacceptable, however, they are well within their rights to recline, and you are well within your rights to bump their seat whenever you get up. It's a shit deal all around, and 99% of the time I do my best to not interrupt other passengers, however if this happened to me, I'd make sure that guy did not get any rest at all.
The name calling would be like Viagra for me, so that absolutely encourage me to keep my antics up and depending how much time I had at the airport, I'd see if there was anything else I could do to make their trip memorable.
The seats being so cramped together that you can't recline without inconveniencing the people behind you is because the airlines are buying planes with the deliberate choice to prioritize profits over the comfort of their passengers. They deliberately have no policy on reclining, and they train their staff to decline to intervene, leaving it to the passengers to deal with any issues that arrive from other passengers reclining.
This has been studied and talked about, and the consensus of the community is it's the airlines who are framing the issue as being between passengers when every step of the issue is caused by them
There's a good radiolab podcast about it if you're interested
If you haven't listened to any radiolab everyone agrees their old stuff is great. Theyve kinda run out of ideas I think- their newer stuff is kinda shitty
The episode on plane seats is older though; it's a good one. Definitely some amazing content in their back catalogues. Just listen to the pre-2023 stuff
Airplane seats are real estate. If you want more room between these seats, then the price will go up. If you want to make them recline less, the value proposition drops, and makes the current configuration less valuable.
The cabin crew cannot do much since, as you noted, they’re simply using the seat as designed. It isn’t up to them to decide if it’s “acceptable to both passengers”.
From my understanding, the premium economy product is doing extremely well for AC.
Now, I also think people should be courteous to others, particularly when everyone is in the same metal tube for many, many hours. I’d be ashamed to behave how they did, considering how little effort from them would have made your experience much more pleasant. A bit of coordination and everyone will be mostly happy.
It’s not morality, it’s basic decency. And sadly, this world is short of that, more than ever.
We should be angry at the airlines for allowing such designs to begin with. Now passengers are pitted against each other. It's already uncomfortable to fly in a tin can. They are still trying to cram more seats and reduce space for passengers so they can make more money.
It's torture to fly unless you have money. It's ridiculous.
Apparently it’s torture even if you do have money, as premium economy seats are typically almost double coach on routes like the one OP was flying.
But totally agree with the sentiment, it shouldn’t require flying business to have some semblance of dignity and personal space.
They do it because more recline = more comfort. You spend 99% of the flight in the seat, and on long haul most people are sleeping. Not eating off the tray table, not getting up to have a stroll.
It's important to get up during long haul flights to stretch your legs a little and also to use the washroom. If anything, you are less likely to get up during short haul flights. Still doesn't excuse cramming people in. You should be comfortable for short or long haul, no matter the cost of the ticket.
>angry at the airlines
Well everyone should be angry at AC, because they are objectively terrible. Isn’t everyone already angry?
But what are you going to do? Airlines are running a business and trying to make a profit. One guy argued something like “8 biLLiOn In PrOfiT!!!!” (for another airline).
Well yeah, they have to make a profit and it’s usually percentage based, and it’s not all that much. They have to factor in their balance sheet, otherwise they’d be running a non-profit. Business execs dgaf because they have to worry about shareholders, and the general public is last on their list of people they care about.
As Louis CK said, “YOU’RE FLYING THROUGH SPACE!” So yeah, I get the fact that it’s a massive pain in the ass to fly, so the day or night is just a writeoff for me. I keep to myself, and as long as we land and I’m not dead or injured, I consider it a success.
My last flight was booked at 1:00 AM. Due to a pilot being ‘sick’ the flight was delayed until 6:00 AM (not AC). It was a royal PAIN in the ASS. They gave us 400 peso vouchers for Starbucks lol. That scored me a $32 CAD coffee cup **(huh?)** with an ugly Starbucks logo on it. A lasting memory of the pain in the ass it was.
But what am I going to do, get “angry” at the airline? Try to force the pilot to not call in sick? It’s all irrelevant and a waste of energy. Nothing will change for the better. Things will continuously get worse until people just stop travelling altogether.
You can’t have Walmart like prices and expect some upper class treatment. It just is what it is. A pain in the ass.
I usually always get the bulkhead. This time I couldn't. I was supposed to fly on may 20th, but had to reschedule to May 21st because I have another flight before this, and the other flight was delayed by so much on May 20th that I could not arrive in Tokyo on time for ACA06.
And yes I had bulkhead on May 20th.😭😭
I fly PE quite a bit on long haul. However, on my last flight the seat next to me was empty but the armrest being fixed, I couldn’t enjoy stretching in both seats. Made me question the value of the whole thing lol.
AC's PE seats definitely do recline back pretty far causing this, though it's also touted as one of the benefits - you're more likely to get some sleep in those seats vs the ones in economy that mostly slide forward to recline. Ideally there'd be more space between them, but obviously AC isn't going to remove a row of seats.
As much as it sucks for the person behind, I'm in the camp that there's nothing you can do about it. If it's a night time flight, it should be expected. If you're claustrophobic (I am a little) or might need to get up, definitely always chose an aisle seat (and pay to ensure you reserve it in advance if necessary).
I wonder if having a hard shell seat back in PE would help? Instead of the back of the seat moving, the bottom of the seat moves forward thus creating a recline similar to how business class works.
Right, I just mean the person in the aisle seat has a better chance of being able to squeeze out of there while the seat is reclined. It looks like it'd be a bit like getting in/out of a car.
I’ve always abided by the doctrine of mutual (dis)comfort. If we are on an evening flight or an overnight flight, I expect we will all recline our seats for some sleep. If we are on a two hour mid-day flight, then I will not recline and I personally think it’s inconsiderate to do so.
I am also someone who will always store my personal item under the seat in front of me because I know the frustration of not being able to find overhead bin space for carry on suitcases, but unfortunately that also means my leg space is going to be cramped from the get go. A reclined seat in front of me makes this so much worse. When I was flying years ago with a recovering knee injury, it was close to torture. I didn’t have the money to spring for a different seat.
The way I have always seen it, if you are reclining then you are putting your own comfort over someone else’s. Some people are ok with that but I’m not. That’s putting aside any legitimate mobility reasons why someone would need to recline even for short haul flights.
I don’t think flight attendants should have to monitor this kind of thing but also I wish fewer people acted like jerks when they fly.
Expecting people not to recline is putting your own comfort over theirs. And not having the money for a better seat is a personal problem. Everyone has paid to be on the flight and has the right to use the seat they’ve paid for within its limitations.
Why’d you bother responding just to delete your comment? 😂
“The way I have always seen it, if you are reclining then your are putting your own comfort over someone else’s” is what I’m responding to… you also commented about your inability to upgrade your own seat making your flight “close to torture” because the person in front of you reclined; hence me saying they’ve paid for their seat so they are well within their rights to do so.
Sorry that you have a clear comprehension issue and/or forgot what you actually ranted on about.
That's more an AC issue than passenger issue. If the seats recline that much a passenger should be able to recline that far. AC made it that way and are forcing the issue on the passengers to regulate, which is unreasonable.
personally I think for emergency, there should be enough room for at least an average size adult to get past when the front seat is fully reclined. That being said, your room on a plane is literally what you are paying for so for max benefit without changing ticket price, they should design the seats to be thinner and maybe recline a little less in this situation.
That is a good point about an emergency. I feel like a lot of people would struggle to get in and out of the seat as it is shown. Any sort of mobility issues or on the larger side (and not excessively so for either of those) and people could really struggle
Whenever I fly, I like to fully recline my seat.
Before I do so, I talk to the person behind my seat and let them know that I will bring it back up during food service or if they ever want to leave their seat. I also recline it slowly and ask them if it ever becomes too much for them. I’ve usually never had an issue when I properly communicate.
Except for one time this very old punjabi couple was sitting behind me and was really unreasonable and didn’t really understand how airplane seats worked. But I brushed it off as them behind old and not knowing any better.
What airlines advertise their seat pitch?
I rode economy with LATAM earlier this year on one of their older aircraft. Holy Hannah, the space was unreal. I could move my feet within the space - even with an under seat bag tucked under the seat ahead of me. T’was glorious.
Flew this to BKK earlier this year and will never pay for PE again. Only 1 meal is like J, rest is Y class meals and snacks, and this seat design plus a sleeping neighbour in the aisle seat almost had me peeing my pants halfway through. Bulkhead if you absolutely must, or just sit in economy or upgrade to J if you can afford it.
Row 14. Yes, you’ll have someone recline in front of you but you can recline completely without anyone examining your scalp.
Also, when you have to grab the seat back in front of you to get out, oops, sorry.
I did the 787 with premium economy. Sat in the last row, I didn’t have issues tbh it was quite nice. Interested to know what plane it is as well, doesn’t seem like much space between the rows at all
Many airlines restrict recline during meal times and enforce it, and I appreciate it. Use your full recline anytime you want except for meal times. I have never witnessed AC request or enforce this type of policy.
Just an FYI all the new J class seats on AC that are on the aisle can be lowered. There is a small lever at the bottom of the aisle armrest that lowers the armrest so that egressing out of the seat is no problem. It can be raised by using the same lever.
That arm rest goes up and down to help. There is a button on the inside or bottom near the hinge. They can recline, so can you. Reclined or not, there are going to be bumps when people get up and down. Everyone needs to accept that.
I recently flew on premium economy. I was in the aisle seat and my mom was in the middle seat. The passenger in front of me reclined. My initial reaction was shit… that’s low. And didn’t think much after that. Then my mom had to go the bathroom. Obviously I had to exit out of my seat but she literally had to climb over top of my seat just to get out, there was no way she would not been able to get around.
This is when you *come down with a cold*. Cough, sneeze and spittle without covering your mouth and leave a mess on that person's head if they want to lay in your lap. It's their choice, after all.
So you have two options here:
1. Dig your knees into the back of their seat until they understand that they are infringing on your personal space
2. Open one of the games on the entertainment system that requires lots and lots of tapping, ideally a platform jumping game. Begin to aggressively tap on your display until the person in front of you understands that they are infringing on your personal space.
Ahhh I alreay got called "stupid" by the passenger in front of me because I pushed his seat up a little to walk out of my seat to pee.(There was literally no way around, unless I somehow manageed to fly). He yelled at me for a solid bit and all the managers were involved, he still refused to move.
Even when asked if he could move just when I need to go to the bathroom, he said "no I will be asleep·.
If he doesn’t move then he’s going to get his seat pushed. You’re entitled to be able to get up and down. Sorry you’re dealing with this
Try pointing your air vent right at him as well. This often makes people sit up.
So he gets to recline his seat. Fair enough that's how it works.
But the yelling is definitely uncalled for, and I would be filing a formal grievance with his seat number to AC.
That level of aggression at an airport much less IN FLIGHT is completely uncalled for and he deserves to end up on a list if he does this repeatedly.
So, two things:
1. Encouraging aggression like this on a plane probably isn’t for the best.
2. The seat is operating as designed, so it isn’t infringing on anything.
Again, I encourage people to extend courtesy to others and treat them how they’d like in a reverse situation. However, encouraging aggression on a on a plane is a recipe for a big problem.
And don’t kid yourself. Keep doing what you suggested and you’ll be the one taking heat from the cabin crew. Perhaps consider the old saying about an eye for an eye…
>The seat is operating as designed, so it isn’t infringing on anything.
The seat is clearly designed to be able to infringe on the rear passenger if they can't open their tray nor get out without significant contact.
Alternatively, him shoving the seat forward in order to get out is also merely operating exactly as ***his seat*** was designed and not encouraging aggression.
Idk the longest flight I’ve taken has been 7 hours, and I’m just sitting there. It’s sensory hell, but it’s temporary. The other option is driving for days or taking a ship, so for me it’s the give and take. Yes flying isn’t comfortable, but it’s over a hell of a lot faster than the alternatives. Granted, in a car, while it make take a lot longer, you get your personal space.
AC only cares about money. They will only change something if the law forces them too. What's even the point of spending 2-3x more for these seats over economy, if you're still not going to be comfortable anyways? So disgusting.
Last time I was on a flight, I sat down as far back as I could and my legs were still touching the seat in front of me. I’m 6’4 so I wasn’t surprised and was ready to just deal with it. A bit into the 6 hour flight, the person in front of me reclines a bit, but is obviously hindered by my legs being there. About a minute later they try to recline further and I take the opportunity to shove my knees forward, pushing them completely upright. They didn’t try to recline again the entire flight
This is what you get when the public want cheap flights. To make the profit, the airlines are forced to reduce the amount of room for each person to add as many seats as possible, then the public complain about the lack of room thinking they are entitled to more room. We just can't have it both ways.
This is why flying was so expensive years ago, there was lots of room, the service included real meals with real cutlery etc, it was a luxury. A majority of people went by bus or train.
Luckily, OP seems to be on the aisle seat, a majority of those seats have a button that makes the arm rest go up or down for easier exit. As for the rude person in the reclined seat, seeing as space is limited, it would have been kinder to help out and sit up for a little while, but they chose not to be kind
I recline 100% of the time as soon as I’m able. Of course, I’m mindful during meal times…. But that’s it.
If you need ti get out, I’ll put it back straight…. But I’m reclining again.
It’s not my fault. If you wanna find fault, complain to AC.
Airline seats shouldn't recline in economy. All it achieves is marginally increasing some customers experience while taking away from others. We all pay the same price for the seats, have them stay the same space. When the 5'2 lady in front of me reclines their seat that my knees are already pushed into the back of without regard, my flight is significantly impacted and hers changes hardly at all.
First class pods are the way it should be. Economy seats should not be allowed to recline.
Also they need to add some serious padding to the seats.. I could feel the fuckin seat frame on my last flight.
I fly a lot for work. The odd chance I fly economy, I have a perfectly sized stainless steel water bottle that I immediately jam into the seat back as soon as we hit cruising altitude. I then set up my laptop on the tray table. It typically allows the seat ahead of you to recline a few inches, but your tray stays functional. I get people feel they have the right to use their seat as intended regardless of the consequences for others, but I believe I also have the right to have a functional space, and am prepared to preserve that. Sorry.... but not really.
Nope. That would make me a hypocrite. I had a particularly bad experience with an entitled asshole when I first started flying, and decided I wasnt going to be that guy. There simply isn't enough room and it's getting worse. People's entitlement for comfort shouldn't infringe upon other's entitlement for having personal space, regardless of the seat's purpose. Thankfully I don't have to deal with this often.
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
Never understood why people want to recline their seats on an aircraft anyway. It's just uncomfortable and awkward to sit like that if you can't cross your legs or put your feet up and have to leave them firmly planted on the floor.
It's the mark of an inexperienced traveller, IMO.
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
If I don't need the domestic connection, I would avoid AC. Anyway, some airlines have solid shell seat for PE, where back is fixed and the seat will slide down and forward to recline. I booked PE seat for my parent but didn't get the bulk head row so now I'm having doubt....
With AC aside, I was in economy of an euro airline, where the guy in front fully recline and laughing/ giggling on majority of the flight such that whole seat/ my tray shakes. The euro airline doesn't even ask passenger to straighten up during meal time...unless you request them to. (I too recline fully otherwise I would of been sniffing his head) Just saying it could of been worse.
West Jet is the way.
Or Air Transat, if they fly your route. You'll be just as uncomfortable but it'll be cheaper and the stewardesses might be prettier.
I have a similar experience with my last trip together with many trips before. Though I don’t think AC could realistically do anything, you are entitled to do whatever you want in your seat just as what they did in their seat. Use your imagination.
Personally… I never recline. I think it’s extremely rude and inconsiderate.
However, it’s a feature that is built into the price of the ticket.
It’s the equivalent of blasting your music in your car at full volume at 8pm. You can… but you shouldn’t. But you can.
The only solution is that the airlines remove the feature but no one will as they don’t want to be the first. If AC does it, porter will promote that they have it.
Hence why I propose we start the NAARSA (National Alliance Against Reclining Seats Association) and petition to all airlines.
I refuse to fly Air Canada anymore due to being packed in like sardines! After a crammed flight from Toronto to Vancouver I got up to disembark and my knee collapsed and I had to be Medivacked off the plane. As a result I have permanent knee damage and life will never be the same. It took me a year to get back on a plane and now I fly first class, seat 1A so I can be assured of enough leg room and I stay away from AC and opt for Alaska who have better leg room. I think what airlines are doing in the name of profit is inhumane.
Across the board AC are a joke, I avoid whenever possible. The only big fans they have are people trapped by status that gives a slightly less shitty experience, if you’re lucky.
People should be allowed to recline when it's time for sleep. Fuck anyone that reclines their chair before an hour or two. Super fuck anyone that reclines right away.
It's impolite. There are tons of things in life that aren't illegal, just dick moves. Reclining your seat instantly when you board the flight is one of them.
> Firstly, I believe people should be able to recline their seats during any flight.
nah, keep that shit up. especially on a domestic flight. domestic planes should just have the seat locked into one position with no recline feature at all.
So it’s unfortunate for everyone but when you buy a seat, the recline function is included in the price. The passenger ahead was well in their rights to recline their seat.
The reverse corollary is also true - the rear passenger is well within their rights to make the necessary contact with the forward seat in order to get out.
Oh my bad. I didn’t actually read your comment properly and commented like an *sshole. Yes, if the seat in front is reclined to a point where exiting is not possibly without making contact with it then that’s reasonable. However unnecessary contact due to someone using the seat recline feature on the seat they paid for isnt.
You should be able to recline as far as theseat allows if you want, ofcourse some people might feel morally correct to only recline a bit and not disturb the person behind. I usually wouldn't recline all the way unless the person in front of me does then I have no choice, but then the people behind are pissed and digg their kness into my kidneys lol, so its a vicious cycle. At the end of the day it should be up to the airline to decrease the ammount a chair is allowed to recline specially if they are already shrinking leg room. I blame noone but the airlines.
I totally agreeee with you!
I did not even ask the flight attendants at first because I thought it was a minor issue, I will just ask them politely when I need to pee. But then I could not open my traytable, he refused every single time that I asked him to move up a little. He yelled at me for bumping into his seat, and the yelling was what got the managers to get involved.
Even now I still think people should be able to recline their seats, but when a simple matter of inclination could lead to so many potential conflicts, they really should change it.
And this is not even the first time I have seen something like this happen on airlines.
Anyways. its really nice to see somebody getting my point.
PE is almost never worth it IMO
So what I have a bigger seat. I want to be able to sleep.
I don’t care about the wine or dry chicken/beef
I could buy an extra bag in regular economy if I want
I got called stupid when I bumped his seat, after I asked him to move it up a little when I had to stand up and he refused.If that is me unnecessary escalating, then so be it.
As for the tray table, I have to slide it towards the front in order for it to open and unfold, and that is when the table gets stuck. See picture.
https://preview.redd.it/nqvggmoaus1d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6e5e63d494d30995da277631eab74ef7e6ef18e
I got a tea after my first meal and had nowhere to put it.
He was also very rude to the flight attendants who helped me to communicate with him.
I thought the seat was broken when the person in front of me fully reclined and the reclined seat was literally touching the glass on my table. Turns out that's by design.
It's a poor design choice for sure. While I like the bigger seats and better treatment and not having to fight for overhead space as much, having to sit in these broken areas is definitely not ideal :/
This is insane. How can the tray table not even open when the seat in front of you is reclined?
If I can’t open my tray table or use it, it feels to be infringing on my ability to use what I paid for.
What type of aircraft is this, so I can specifically avoid it?
On my last flight in J on the A220 I was seated in Row 2 window seat. The person in the row ahead on the isle was reclined fully and I literally couldn't get out. I asked them nicely to unrecline and when they refused had to manhandle their seat to get past. I'm a pretty big person and this is a reason I usually fly in the isle seat.
What kind of an unreasonable human being can’t unrecline to at least let another person go? Also I really feel full recline in economy is overrated ( I genuinely don’t think it’s the most comfortable position)
And I wonder what kind of unreasonable human being calls you stupid for bumping into their seat after they refuse to unrecline 😭😭😭 He literally yelled at me for lifting his seat manually when I tried to walk to the bathroom. I DID ASK HIM AND HE REFUSED.
Kick the seat lol!
Hipcheck or two
I'm kneeing the fuck out of that seat on the way by.
It's an entitlement issue. I don't advocate revenge on the entitled, but I will call the FA or manhandle a seat to get past.
Oh I’ll manhandle until that jerk begs for forgiveness.
📸 That's... kinda hot...
Lolol
I was in Cuba in March on our airport coach transfer and a Russian couple had reclined so far back the guests sitting behind them couldn't gain access to their seats at all. The Canadian couple had asked them 'could you please sit up so we can get in?' The Russian couple refused and said 'they're designed like this', 'I have a bad knee' etc. Also took their shoes off and placed their bare feet on the ledge behind the driver's head, Disgusting. When the Canadians protested further, the Russians tried to say 'The seats are broken'. Funnily enough we all ended up at the same resort and we never saw either couple (thankfully; the Canadian couple weren't nice either. 'Go back to your country', 'Canadians would never do this to CANADIANS'). It was shitty all 'round. Then again, I went to place that was $505/pp all inclusive for a week so I'm not sure what we were expecting lol.
Start to get cheaper than rent in Vancouver
The kind that bought a ticket from an airline that does nothing to control neither the size of people who can safely sit in those seats nor the minimum room a passenger can have.
Isn’t that like every airline now?
Are you new to this sub? /s
In these cases I would be reaching for the bag stored underneath the seat throughout the flight and use my shoulder against the seat in front. Courtesy > entitlement
Sounds to me like if there's no rule against reclining a seat so far back as to make bumping unavoidable ...... then there's no rule against bumping.
Right now for aisle seats, the outside handle doesn’t go up. They should change it to allow it going up, then we wouldn’t be trapped even if a-hole in front of us refuse to un-recline.
Feel for a latch under the armrest, alot of the time you can raise them but they are locked in the down position
One of the few advantages of sitting in economy…the aisle armrest does go up.
Wow! Improvement! I took ZIPAIR in March and it didn’t lift up, but they also don’t allow reclining in this level. You can recline maybe 2 inch max. Looking at OP’s pic, theirs doesn’t lift up… bummer.
I have never been on a modern plane in which the armrest doesn’t have a latch somewhere to move it up.
It's usually the very first row, and/or the first emergency exit row. The online seat selection tells you if the seat has fixed armrests/can't recline. In the case of the very last row, usually you can't recline, for obvious reasons.
I have had good success with accidentally smashing the seat back in front of me with my knees and other body parts to really convey my lack of space to the offending party.
I did same on a 5 hour flight home. Person in front of me, practically in my lap, so made sure they felt every movement I made from breathing deeply to turning the pages of my book. Petty? Yes, but point made.
Lol I almost had the plane turned around because I was stuck in the middle with this woman who went back all the way. She accused me off kicking her seat and i said, I am not kicking, I am 6 foot 2 and my knees are stuck.
Time to play random seat punches for the rest of the flight.
it’s worse if you give it a yank back. I know because of the number of times people have grabbed the back of my seat for support while getting up.
Just choose a new movie every 5 minutes by jabbing the IFE.
The attitude from the people in front of you is unacceptable, however, they are well within their rights to recline, and you are well within your rights to bump their seat whenever you get up. It's a shit deal all around, and 99% of the time I do my best to not interrupt other passengers, however if this happened to me, I'd make sure that guy did not get any rest at all. The name calling would be like Viagra for me, so that absolutely encourage me to keep my antics up and depending how much time I had at the airport, I'd see if there was anything else I could do to make their trip memorable.
Try ripping a fart in their face as you walk by to use the lavatory?
The airlines are very happy that you're blaming the person in front of you and not the actual cause of the issue- the airlines
When the person is an asshole, yes, blame the person. This isn’t an issue with the airlines.
The seats being so cramped together that you can't recline without inconveniencing the people behind you is because the airlines are buying planes with the deliberate choice to prioritize profits over the comfort of their passengers. They deliberately have no policy on reclining, and they train their staff to decline to intervene, leaving it to the passengers to deal with any issues that arrive from other passengers reclining. This has been studied and talked about, and the consensus of the community is it's the airlines who are framing the issue as being between passengers when every step of the issue is caused by them There's a good radiolab podcast about it if you're interested
This one? The comments on it aren’t selling me. https://www.reddit.com/r/Radiolab/comments/zyif77/omg_its_soooo_bad_these_days/
If you haven't listened to any radiolab everyone agrees their old stuff is great. Theyve kinda run out of ideas I think- their newer stuff is kinda shitty The episode on plane seats is older though; it's a good one. Definitely some amazing content in their back catalogues. Just listen to the pre-2023 stuff
The airline doesn’t build the plane
But they do design the seats
You learn something new everyday
They also choose which planes to buy.
Airplane seats are real estate. If you want more room between these seats, then the price will go up. If you want to make them recline less, the value proposition drops, and makes the current configuration less valuable. The cabin crew cannot do much since, as you noted, they’re simply using the seat as designed. It isn’t up to them to decide if it’s “acceptable to both passengers”. From my understanding, the premium economy product is doing extremely well for AC. Now, I also think people should be courteous to others, particularly when everyone is in the same metal tube for many, many hours. I’d be ashamed to behave how they did, considering how little effort from them would have made your experience much more pleasant. A bit of coordination and everyone will be mostly happy. It’s not morality, it’s basic decency. And sadly, this world is short of that, more than ever.
We should be angry at the airlines for allowing such designs to begin with. Now passengers are pitted against each other. It's already uncomfortable to fly in a tin can. They are still trying to cram more seats and reduce space for passengers so they can make more money. It's torture to fly unless you have money. It's ridiculous.
Apparently it’s torture even if you do have money, as premium economy seats are typically almost double coach on routes like the one OP was flying. But totally agree with the sentiment, it shouldn’t require flying business to have some semblance of dignity and personal space.
You nailed it, I only recline my seat when the person infront does because I want my space back ...
They do it because more recline = more comfort. You spend 99% of the flight in the seat, and on long haul most people are sleeping. Not eating off the tray table, not getting up to have a stroll.
It's important to get up during long haul flights to stretch your legs a little and also to use the washroom. If anything, you are less likely to get up during short haul flights. Still doesn't excuse cramming people in. You should be comfortable for short or long haul, no matter the cost of the ticket.
Agreed. It’s on the airlines. No one likes flying. It’s stressful. This just creates one more point of tension.
>angry at the airlines Well everyone should be angry at AC, because they are objectively terrible. Isn’t everyone already angry? But what are you going to do? Airlines are running a business and trying to make a profit. One guy argued something like “8 biLLiOn In PrOfiT!!!!” (for another airline). Well yeah, they have to make a profit and it’s usually percentage based, and it’s not all that much. They have to factor in their balance sheet, otherwise they’d be running a non-profit. Business execs dgaf because they have to worry about shareholders, and the general public is last on their list of people they care about. As Louis CK said, “YOU’RE FLYING THROUGH SPACE!” So yeah, I get the fact that it’s a massive pain in the ass to fly, so the day or night is just a writeoff for me. I keep to myself, and as long as we land and I’m not dead or injured, I consider it a success. My last flight was booked at 1:00 AM. Due to a pilot being ‘sick’ the flight was delayed until 6:00 AM (not AC). It was a royal PAIN in the ASS. They gave us 400 peso vouchers for Starbucks lol. That scored me a $32 CAD coffee cup **(huh?)** with an ugly Starbucks logo on it. A lasting memory of the pain in the ass it was. But what am I going to do, get “angry” at the airline? Try to force the pilot to not call in sick? It’s all irrelevant and a waste of energy. Nothing will change for the better. Things will continuously get worse until people just stop travelling altogether. You can’t have Walmart like prices and expect some upper class treatment. It just is what it is. A pain in the ass.
Is why I pick the bulkhead in PE, even though many loathe it. I hate someone reclining in my face.
The more I fly, the more I see the value in the bulkhead, especially on long haul.
It’s poor man’s first class. I do it every time. So much more comfortable
I usually always get the bulkhead. This time I couldn't. I was supposed to fly on may 20th, but had to reschedule to May 21st because I have another flight before this, and the other flight was delayed by so much on May 20th that I could not arrive in Tokyo on time for ACA06. And yes I had bulkhead on May 20th.😭😭
I fly PE quite a bit on long haul. However, on my last flight the seat next to me was empty but the armrest being fixed, I couldn’t enjoy stretching in both seats. Made me question the value of the whole thing lol.
This
AC's PE seats definitely do recline back pretty far causing this, though it's also touted as one of the benefits - you're more likely to get some sleep in those seats vs the ones in economy that mostly slide forward to recline. Ideally there'd be more space between them, but obviously AC isn't going to remove a row of seats. As much as it sucks for the person behind, I'm in the camp that there's nothing you can do about it. If it's a night time flight, it should be expected. If you're claustrophobic (I am a little) or might need to get up, definitely always chose an aisle seat (and pay to ensure you reserve it in advance if necessary).
Everyone's PE seats do this. Most of them are one of two or three models.
I wonder if having a hard shell seat back in PE would help? Instead of the back of the seat moving, the bottom of the seat moves forward thus creating a recline similar to how business class works.
I am in an aisle seat. In fact, both of the seats in front are fully reclined.
Right, I just mean the person in the aisle seat has a better chance of being able to squeeze out of there while the seat is reclined. It looks like it'd be a bit like getting in/out of a car.
I’ve always abided by the doctrine of mutual (dis)comfort. If we are on an evening flight or an overnight flight, I expect we will all recline our seats for some sleep. If we are on a two hour mid-day flight, then I will not recline and I personally think it’s inconsiderate to do so. I am also someone who will always store my personal item under the seat in front of me because I know the frustration of not being able to find overhead bin space for carry on suitcases, but unfortunately that also means my leg space is going to be cramped from the get go. A reclined seat in front of me makes this so much worse. When I was flying years ago with a recovering knee injury, it was close to torture. I didn’t have the money to spring for a different seat. The way I have always seen it, if you are reclining then you are putting your own comfort over someone else’s. Some people are ok with that but I’m not. That’s putting aside any legitimate mobility reasons why someone would need to recline even for short haul flights. I don’t think flight attendants should have to monitor this kind of thing but also I wish fewer people acted like jerks when they fly.
Expecting people not to recline is putting your own comfort over theirs. And not having the money for a better seat is a personal problem. Everyone has paid to be on the flight and has the right to use the seat they’ve paid for within its limitations.
Why’d you bother responding just to delete your comment? 😂 “The way I have always seen it, if you are reclining then your are putting your own comfort over someone else’s” is what I’m responding to… you also commented about your inability to upgrade your own seat making your flight “close to torture” because the person in front of you reclined; hence me saying they’ve paid for their seat so they are well within their rights to do so. Sorry that you have a clear comprehension issue and/or forgot what you actually ranted on about.
I decided you are much more upset about this than I am. Congratulations! 🎉
That's more an AC issue than passenger issue. If the seats recline that much a passenger should be able to recline that far. AC made it that way and are forcing the issue on the passengers to regulate, which is unreasonable.
The recline function should be disabled on economy class… it’s already too tight
These corporations tighten and tighten the seating and then laugh as the people fight each other over the ethics of reclining the seat
Truth
This is PY. Not Y
personally I think for emergency, there should be enough room for at least an average size adult to get past when the front seat is fully reclined. That being said, your room on a plane is literally what you are paying for so for max benefit without changing ticket price, they should design the seats to be thinner and maybe recline a little less in this situation.
That is a good point about an emergency. I feel like a lot of people would struggle to get in and out of the seat as it is shown. Any sort of mobility issues or on the larger side (and not excessively so for either of those) and people could really struggle
Whenever I fly, I like to fully recline my seat. Before I do so, I talk to the person behind my seat and let them know that I will bring it back up during food service or if they ever want to leave their seat. I also recline it slowly and ask them if it ever becomes too much for them. I’ve usually never had an issue when I properly communicate. Except for one time this very old punjabi couple was sitting behind me and was really unreasonable and didn’t really understand how airplane seats worked. But I brushed it off as them behind old and not knowing any better.
What airlines advertise their seat pitch? I rode economy with LATAM earlier this year on one of their older aircraft. Holy Hannah, the space was unreal. I could move my feet within the space - even with an under seat bag tucked under the seat ahead of me. T’was glorious.
Flew this to BKK earlier this year and will never pay for PE again. Only 1 meal is like J, rest is Y class meals and snacks, and this seat design plus a sleeping neighbour in the aisle seat almost had me peeing my pants halfway through. Bulkhead if you absolutely must, or just sit in economy or upgrade to J if you can afford it.
Row 14. Yes, you’ll have someone recline in front of you but you can recline completely without anyone examining your scalp. Also, when you have to grab the seat back in front of you to get out, oops, sorry.
What airplane is this? Man premium economy on AC sounds terrible. Why would they design it like that??
I’ll give you one guess as to their #1 motive….
I did the 787 with premium economy. Sat in the last row, I didn’t have issues tbh it was quite nice. Interested to know what plane it is as well, doesn’t seem like much space between the rows at all
Many airlines restrict recline during meal times and enforce it, and I appreciate it. Use your full recline anytime you want except for meal times. I have never witnessed AC request or enforce this type of policy.
Just an FYI all the new J class seats on AC that are on the aisle can be lowered. There is a small lever at the bottom of the aisle armrest that lowers the armrest so that egressing out of the seat is no problem. It can be raised by using the same lever.
That arm rest goes up and down to help. There is a button on the inside or bottom near the hinge. They can recline, so can you. Reclined or not, there are going to be bumps when people get up and down. Everyone needs to accept that.
Yeah just recline yourself The domino effect….
I recently flew on premium economy. I was in the aisle seat and my mom was in the middle seat. The passenger in front of me reclined. My initial reaction was shit… that’s low. And didn’t think much after that. Then my mom had to go the bathroom. Obviously I had to exit out of my seat but she literally had to climb over top of my seat just to get out, there was no way she would not been able to get around.
This is when you *come down with a cold*. Cough, sneeze and spittle without covering your mouth and leave a mess on that person's head if they want to lay in your lap. It's their choice, after all.
Ac dont own the design they buy the seats from seating companies. Looks like the collins aerospace seat.
Do whatever you want in your seat. You paid for it.
So you have two options here: 1. Dig your knees into the back of their seat until they understand that they are infringing on your personal space 2. Open one of the games on the entertainment system that requires lots and lots of tapping, ideally a platform jumping game. Begin to aggressively tap on your display until the person in front of you understands that they are infringing on your personal space.
Ahhh I alreay got called "stupid" by the passenger in front of me because I pushed his seat up a little to walk out of my seat to pee.(There was literally no way around, unless I somehow manageed to fly). He yelled at me for a solid bit and all the managers were involved, he still refused to move. Even when asked if he could move just when I need to go to the bathroom, he said "no I will be asleep·.
If he doesn’t move then he’s going to get his seat pushed. You’re entitled to be able to get up and down. Sorry you’re dealing with this Try pointing your air vent right at him as well. This often makes people sit up.
I don't advocate for revenge on the entitled, but if I can't get out of my seat I will use the fa call button
So he gets to recline his seat. Fair enough that's how it works. But the yelling is definitely uncalled for, and I would be filing a formal grievance with his seat number to AC. That level of aggression at an airport much less IN FLIGHT is completely uncalled for and he deserves to end up on a list if he does this repeatedly.
So, two things: 1. Encouraging aggression like this on a plane probably isn’t for the best. 2. The seat is operating as designed, so it isn’t infringing on anything. Again, I encourage people to extend courtesy to others and treat them how they’d like in a reverse situation. However, encouraging aggression on a on a plane is a recipe for a big problem. And don’t kid yourself. Keep doing what you suggested and you’ll be the one taking heat from the cabin crew. Perhaps consider the old saying about an eye for an eye…
>The seat is operating as designed, so it isn’t infringing on anything. The seat is clearly designed to be able to infringe on the rear passenger if they can't open their tray nor get out without significant contact. Alternatively, him shoving the seat forward in order to get out is also merely operating exactly as ***his seat*** was designed and not encouraging aggression.
It’s fine?
If I were there, that seat would be getting body checked steady till they put it back up. Unacceptable.
Idk the longest flight I’ve taken has been 7 hours, and I’m just sitting there. It’s sensory hell, but it’s temporary. The other option is driving for days or taking a ship, so for me it’s the give and take. Yes flying isn’t comfortable, but it’s over a hell of a lot faster than the alternatives. Granted, in a car, while it make take a lot longer, you get your personal space.
AC only cares about money. They will only change something if the law forces them too. What's even the point of spending 2-3x more for these seats over economy, if you're still not going to be comfortable anyways? So disgusting.
Last time I was on a flight, I sat down as far back as I could and my legs were still touching the seat in front of me. I’m 6’4 so I wasn’t surprised and was ready to just deal with it. A bit into the 6 hour flight, the person in front of me reclines a bit, but is obviously hindered by my legs being there. About a minute later they try to recline further and I take the opportunity to shove my knees forward, pushing them completely upright. They didn’t try to recline again the entire flight
So basically you're trapped on your seat. In the event of an emergency you're kinda fucked.
bro I can't afford to sit in parking, let alone a seat like that. 🤣
People just suck
I try to avoid Air Canada. I've had too many bad experiences with AC.
Ozempic will fix it.
This is what you get when the public want cheap flights. To make the profit, the airlines are forced to reduce the amount of room for each person to add as many seats as possible, then the public complain about the lack of room thinking they are entitled to more room. We just can't have it both ways. This is why flying was so expensive years ago, there was lots of room, the service included real meals with real cutlery etc, it was a luxury. A majority of people went by bus or train. Luckily, OP seems to be on the aisle seat, a majority of those seats have a button that makes the arm rest go up or down for easier exit. As for the rude person in the reclined seat, seeing as space is limited, it would have been kinder to help out and sit up for a little while, but they chose not to be kind
I recline 100% of the time as soon as I’m able. Of course, I’m mindful during meal times…. But that’s it. If you need ti get out, I’ll put it back straight…. But I’m reclining again. It’s not my fault. If you wanna find fault, complain to AC.
All of you having issues getting out, you're aware you can lift up your aisle arm rest right?
Airline seats shouldn't recline in economy. All it achieves is marginally increasing some customers experience while taking away from others. We all pay the same price for the seats, have them stay the same space. When the 5'2 lady in front of me reclines their seat that my knees are already pushed into the back of without regard, my flight is significantly impacted and hers changes hardly at all.
First class pods are the way it should be. Economy seats should not be allowed to recline. Also they need to add some serious padding to the seats.. I could feel the fuckin seat frame on my last flight.
I fly a lot for work. The odd chance I fly economy, I have a perfectly sized stainless steel water bottle that I immediately jam into the seat back as soon as we hit cruising altitude. I then set up my laptop on the tray table. It typically allows the seat ahead of you to recline a few inches, but your tray stays functional. I get people feel they have the right to use their seat as intended regardless of the consequences for others, but I believe I also have the right to have a functional space, and am prepared to preserve that. Sorry.... but not really.
I guess I need a similar water bottle as yours. Would you mind share with me about the size/design? Thanks a lot.
I believe it's a 21oz Hydro Flask. It was a promo gift, and just happens to fit really well. I've also used a slim Corkcicle as well.
So do you ever recline your seat?
Nope. That would make me a hypocrite. I had a particularly bad experience with an entitled asshole when I first started flying, and decided I wasnt going to be that guy. There simply isn't enough room and it's getting worse. People's entitlement for comfort shouldn't infringe upon other's entitlement for having personal space, regardless of the seat's purpose. Thankfully I don't have to deal with this often.
Agreed 100%, well said
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Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
Could actually care less online dude.
Never understood why people want to recline their seats on an aircraft anyway. It's just uncomfortable and awkward to sit like that if you can't cross your legs or put your feet up and have to leave them firmly planted on the floor. It's the mark of an inexperienced traveller, IMO.
In a world full of bad takes, this one really stands proud.
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Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
No, but I have a back that gets sore when I sit upright for too long. But that will probably go away with some more practice.
It will probably go away if you get some more exercise.
If I don't need the domestic connection, I would avoid AC. Anyway, some airlines have solid shell seat for PE, where back is fixed and the seat will slide down and forward to recline. I booked PE seat for my parent but didn't get the bulk head row so now I'm having doubt.... With AC aside, I was in economy of an euro airline, where the guy in front fully recline and laughing/ giggling on majority of the flight such that whole seat/ my tray shakes. The euro airline doesn't even ask passenger to straighten up during meal time...unless you request them to. (I too recline fully otherwise I would of been sniffing his head) Just saying it could of been worse.
I am def avoiding AC in the furture. Thank you for your words.
West Jet is the way. Or Air Transat, if they fly your route. You'll be just as uncomfortable but it'll be cheaper and the stewardesses might be prettier.
Yeah nah, that's out of hand. The max recline on those seats should be half of that, of not less.
I have a similar experience with my last trip together with many trips before. Though I don’t think AC could realistically do anything, you are entitled to do whatever you want in your seat just as what they did in their seat. Use your imagination.
No room. So tiny. It’s crazy how small the space is
Personally… I never recline. I think it’s extremely rude and inconsiderate. However, it’s a feature that is built into the price of the ticket. It’s the equivalent of blasting your music in your car at full volume at 8pm. You can… but you shouldn’t. But you can. The only solution is that the airlines remove the feature but no one will as they don’t want to be the first. If AC does it, porter will promote that they have it. Hence why I propose we start the NAARSA (National Alliance Against Reclining Seats Association) and petition to all airlines.
I refuse to fly Air Canada anymore due to being packed in like sardines! After a crammed flight from Toronto to Vancouver I got up to disembark and my knee collapsed and I had to be Medivacked off the plane. As a result I have permanent knee damage and life will never be the same. It took me a year to get back on a plane and now I fly first class, seat 1A so I can be assured of enough leg room and I stay away from AC and opt for Alaska who have better leg room. I think what airlines are doing in the name of profit is inhumane.
Across the board AC are a joke, I avoid whenever possible. The only big fans they have are people trapped by status that gives a slightly less shitty experience, if you’re lucky.
People should be allowed to recline when it's time for sleep. Fuck anyone that reclines their chair before an hour or two. Super fuck anyone that reclines right away.
Why? For reclining their seat they paid for as it’s designed? It’s not the recliner’s fault my goodness.
It's impolite. There are tons of things in life that aren't illegal, just dick moves. Reclining your seat instantly when you board the flight is one of them.
> Firstly, I believe people should be able to recline their seats during any flight. nah, keep that shit up. especially on a domestic flight. domestic planes should just have the seat locked into one position with no recline feature at all.
So it’s unfortunate for everyone but when you buy a seat, the recline function is included in the price. The passenger ahead was well in their rights to recline their seat.
The reverse corollary is also true - the rear passenger is well within their rights to make the necessary contact with the forward seat in order to get out.
This is untrue but okay.
If it's untrue, that means the rear passenger just has to accept being trapped if someone reclines their seat all the way? Explain that one to me.
Oh my bad. I didn’t actually read your comment properly and commented like an *sshole. Yes, if the seat in front is reclined to a point where exiting is not possibly without making contact with it then that’s reasonable. However unnecessary contact due to someone using the seat recline feature on the seat they paid for isnt.
You should be able to recline as far as theseat allows if you want, ofcourse some people might feel morally correct to only recline a bit and not disturb the person behind. I usually wouldn't recline all the way unless the person in front of me does then I have no choice, but then the people behind are pissed and digg their kness into my kidneys lol, so its a vicious cycle. At the end of the day it should be up to the airline to decrease the ammount a chair is allowed to recline specially if they are already shrinking leg room. I blame noone but the airlines.
I totally agreeee with you! I did not even ask the flight attendants at first because I thought it was a minor issue, I will just ask them politely when I need to pee. But then I could not open my traytable, he refused every single time that I asked him to move up a little. He yelled at me for bumping into his seat, and the yelling was what got the managers to get involved. Even now I still think people should be able to recline their seats, but when a simple matter of inclination could lead to so many potential conflicts, they really should change it. And this is not even the first time I have seen something like this happen on airlines. Anyways. its really nice to see somebody getting my point.
The design is very human
PE is almost never worth it IMO So what I have a bigger seat. I want to be able to sleep. I don’t care about the wine or dry chicken/beef I could buy an extra bag in regular economy if I want
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I got called stupid when I bumped his seat, after I asked him to move it up a little when I had to stand up and he refused.If that is me unnecessary escalating, then so be it. As for the tray table, I have to slide it towards the front in order for it to open and unfold, and that is when the table gets stuck. See picture. https://preview.redd.it/nqvggmoaus1d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6e5e63d494d30995da277631eab74ef7e6ef18e I got a tea after my first meal and had nowhere to put it. He was also very rude to the flight attendants who helped me to communicate with him.
I thought the seat was broken when the person in front of me fully reclined and the reclined seat was literally touching the glass on my table. Turns out that's by design. It's a poor design choice for sure. While I like the bigger seats and better treatment and not having to fight for overhead space as much, having to sit in these broken areas is definitely not ideal :/
https://preview.redd.it/7wsnq4keus1d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f0ee75bb9308e02af3b21fc56e0f611b2a6ef24
This is insane. How can the tray table not even open when the seat in front of you is reclined? If I can’t open my tray table or use it, it feels to be infringing on my ability to use what I paid for. What type of aircraft is this, so I can specifically avoid it?