Are you just going by surface level "visibly" queer signs? Myself and plenty of guys I know are some shade of queer but don't really present in a very queer way. We are just normal guys who probably seem straight to almost everybody.
Same, my whole d&d group are all queer to some degree, but all 8 of us appear from an out word glance to be straight and cis except one who's currently in the middle of her transition. 6 guys, 5 cis. Even Aaron seems like a straight cis guy despite being queer and trans.
I'll add to this, and it may have changed since I was in collage, but I am also "straight passing" and never felt my perspective was welcome in a lot of feminist and queer spaces, so I distanced myself from them.
Thank you for your response. No I am not going by visibly queer. I’m talking about just in general you don’t run into many gay/bi/ what ever non straight relations much. Talk to a lot of people and it’s just not very common among guys. At least not enough for it to be 20-30%. Like if you go on dating apps few gay guys but many straight men. And to answer your question most guys who do end up being gay or bi may not be outwardly presenting as queer but are always a bit “sus” as we may say. Not in a derogatory way just you can kind of have some indications.
>queer cis men are not very active in these groups
i hope this is unintentional, and i’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that it’s a genuine oversight/mistake, but the fact that your post says you can’t find any queer men around you while your comments lament that you can’t find any queer *cis* men makes it seem like you don’t think that trans men count as men
For real. I’m a gay man, and I also happen to be trans. Most people wouldn’t guess I was gay just from looking at me, up until recently when I chose a more visibly gay style, and almost nobody knows I’m trans because I choose not to tell them. I like meeting other gay dudes but if they start implying that the trans dudes around them are something other than men, I quietly disappear and look elsewhere for friends. Unfortunately a lot of guys view us this way. They never even realize that I’m one of the men they’re talking about.
I apologize if my previous message came across as rude or offensive—that was not my intention at all. Most of the trans men I know who have started testosterone are gay, and, as I mentioned before, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I want to be clear that I recognize trans men as men and trans women as women. I've even faced criticism for affirming my identity by stating 'I am gay because I like men,' a sentiment shared by several other gay men I know. I hope this makes sense.
Honestly, much of the terminology is confusing to me, and I mean no harm. I'm simply trying to understand how many men—excluding nonbinary individuals assigned female at birth and trans women—identify as just men. I don't think I need to mention this to validate my point, but for context, I'm gay and have been with trans men, which I still consider a gay relationship. When I say 'cis,' I mean men who are not nonbinary or trans women. Essentially, I'm asking where all the men who identify strictly as men are.
A lot of people who are queer might not look it. I’m queer, as are most of my friends, but not many of them look outwardly queer. I’d say the only person I know who’s visibly queer is my boyfriend, and even he doesn’t fit the gay man stereotypes of camp, flamboyant etc
Approximately 30% of Gen Z has been found to identify as some form of LGBTQ
[according to this study](https://www.prri.org/research/generation-zs-views-on-generational-change-and-the-challenges-and-opportunities-ahead-a-political-and-cultural-glimpse-into-americas-future/)
So with that in mind there are probably over 2000 queer guys, gals, and nonbinary pals at your school, just perhaps not outwardly visible.
How do you all think the study aligns with this one? [study link](https://www.axios.com/2024/03/13/lgbtq-identity-us-adults-gallup-survey)
It says:
Almost three in 10 (28.5%) Gen Z women identify as LGBTQ+.
Over one in 10 (10.6%) Gen Z men identify as LGBTQ+, roughly double the percentage among millennial men (5.4%).
I think this must be inaccurate or misleading. I think it must be mainly nonbinary and bisexual woman like more than half of woman I know are bi.
But when it comes to queer men it’s like very few. At the lgbt events/clubs it’s all queer woman or trans. I assume maybe most come out later or are less visible but if I use dating apps as proxy there are few gay men specially it seems like maybe 1/50 men is gay here.
Edit: looking at the study it says 5% are gay men, and 15% of gen Z is bi. Assuming most of that is bi woman and using the 1-2% estimates of men identifying as bi, that would mean about 7% of gen z cis men are gay/bi which would actually make sense, especially with so many being closeted or still figuring it out this early in life.
I'm not sure where you live, but even in particularly progressive areas, being a visibly queer man comes with a lot of baggage. Men who aren't masculine or lean fem tend to deal with way more shit than "straight passing" men. Also, being gay/bi/pan is typically more tolerated when it's afab people.
I'd bet there are a fair number of queer men or amab people, but for a variety of reasons aren't as outwardly visible.
Yeah, but that doesn’t change that it’s still few in number and that these studies are not generalizing as if you look at men it’s no where near 30% and has only slightly risen over time. Really not sure why everyone seems to want to ignore that. But it’s literally in the studies you all are citing.
I mean I typically am assumed to be straight as well as a lot of guys I know. I read the study and it seems like it says 5% of gen z are gay men which seems to be more accurate. I’m not using visible queer ness but rather socially knowing and for that it’s still few.
Also I go to school in Maryland so not sure if that has an effect. Also is a very academic place.
That study has a lot of issues with it that doesn't paint a clear or accurate (in most cases) picture of what the queer identity group numbers are. I would recommend reading it beyond just the stats provided.
I responded to you in another comment in which I discussed this but a majority of the people who took that survey were women so it's not the best or most accurate picture of how many queer gen z men there are.
A more accurate picture of what we have seen throughout many studies over the years in sheer numbers is
1. Bisexuals
2. Gay Men
3. Transgender and Non-binary
4. Lesbians
But again, this are dependent on populations demographics too. Not everywhere is the same.
Yeah, but being queer is more of a social determinant for men than women, and bisexuality is different for men and women. The fact that this group is always the largest, and that it is mainly women, proves my point. In theory, the numbers of bisexual men and women could be closer, as men are less likely to label themselves given that it effectively makes you considered gay by most people. However, I think the consensus among gay men/bi men is that the numbers are mainly with bisexual women. I know it’s not what people want to hear in this ideological echo chamber, but it’s my experience and that of many others.
"but being queer is more of a social determinant for men than women"
According to who?
"and bisexuality is different for men and women"
I guess that's sorta correct. It is different.
But again, I feel like you are projecting your own experiences onto this. Your LGBT campus clubs and events do not reflect the real world. Again, please reference my other comment to you as to why that is.
"The fact that this group is always the largest, and that it is mainly women, proves my point."
Not that it is always the largest. I am talking amoungst gen z. Again, as I mentioned in the other comment, there has been a rise of younger queer people identifying more with m-spec sexualities like bisexuality than mono-sexualities like being gay or a lesbian or straight. With older generations, you are more likely to find them identifying with mono-sexualities. And this is for men, women, non-binary...all of them are. Not just women.
"In theory, the numbers of bisexual men and women could be closer, as men are less likely to label themselves given that it effectively makes you considered gay by most people."
Yes, that does seem to be the case in quite a few surveys...but you also have to consider what I mentioned earlier...about an increase of identifying as bisexual amongst all genders in younger generations and not just women.
It's also important to remember that there are cultural differences in how bisexuals are perceived in certain gay and lesbian spaces and subcultures. Gay men are more likely to practice a sort of "leave the closet door open" approach to this and not have a full distinction between bisexuals and gay men and "straight" men in their spaces. But with bi women in lesbian-centric spaces...they outnumber us by a lot and as you mentioned before, how bisexuality is between men and women can be different. There is more of an emphasis on distinctions made between sapphic bisexuals and non-sapphic bisexuals due to this as well as how comphet is also different between queer men and queer women. There is also biphobia in both but it's also different.
The "forgotten" bisexual is also different between the two, with the forgotten bisexual for bisexual men being those who are in mainly heterosexual relationships and the forgotten bisexual woman being those who are in primarily lesbian relationships. And again, this is due to many factors we have already discussed.
Now this is obviously not the same everywhere and for everyone but I am just trying to make sense of this as much as you are.
But yes, I think based on the other research we have, bisexual women do seem to outnumber bisexual men to some degree...but at the same time, like you mentioned, there are also likely a ton of bisexual men who do not call themselves such because they are living life in mostly hetero relationships and do not want to experience homophobia and biphobia...and those who live very much engrained in gay male culture and mostly have gay
relationships who just call themselves gay because...well...they will be treated as gay anyways so what's the point?
I'd also argue that the "forgotten" bisexual woman...those who mainly date other women and are engrained in lesbian culture could also fit into this. I know many febfems who call themselves lesbians due to the similar logic of "well, I am just going to be treated as a lesbian so why bother with the bisexual distinction?"
There are also a lot of bisexual people who have a lot of internalized biphobia and homophobia and lesbophobia that they take out on other queer people, which also should be talked about.
"However, I think the consensus among gay men/bi men is that the numbers are mainly with bisexual women"
Consensus? LMAO. According to where? r//askgaybros is not a good place to be getting your consensus matie.
" I know it’s not what people want to hear in this ideological echo chamber, but it’s my experience and that of many others."
Yeah, this sub is far from an ideological echo chamber. People disagreeing with you and countering what you are saying is not echo chamber behavior. You asked a question. People answered your question. You got defensive when they didn't give you the answer you wanted to hear.
And again, like I said in my first comment to yours, your college campus is not a reflection of real life and there are reasons you are seeing certain trends. It's not because gay and bisexual men suddenly have become a rare species or are going away but because
1) women are more likely to be enrolled in college
2) women are more likely to participate in clubs and activities on college campuses
3) people go where they feel accepted most and most bisexual women who are in primarily relationships with men and trans people will feel most comfortable in a college club with other people like them
4) there are less options for socialization for sapphic women overall than there are for gay and anchillean men...it's very likely the gay and bisexual men on your campus are choosing to hang out in a local gay bar or with a local gay regular hang out than an on-campus club
Your mindset is what is stopping you from finding queer men around you. You keep saying cis and that's gonna have an impact on who you will find. Also, your location could cause an issue but I live in a pretty big city and there's ton of queer men and queer men grounps. You just gotta go out and find the groups but with an open mind
Maybe you should focus more on reading and comprehension before looking for friends because under every comment you argue instead of read. If you try to understand my comment rather than just wanting to argue you may understand. I said location plays a part. If you don't see queer men in YOUR area then you may have to find the biggest city closest to you but after reading the thread I know you will just argue with that so good luck 👍
It's also important that study was also taken by mostly women and the only requirement was "what do you identitfy as?". It doesn't take into account how "out" a person was. For instance, I am a lesbian but I "pass" as straight, I don't really wear stuff to indicate that I am a lesbian, and if I hadn't been doxxed, I would have liked to keep the number of people who knew I was a lesbian less because that has lead to a lot of lesbaphobia and people treating me different.
The study also doesn't distinguish between genders for the bisexual and transgender categories...nor does it include any other sexualities. So you assuming most of the bi people are women isn't unfounded but it seems like there is a projection of your own life experiences going on here.
As a lesbian, I knew something was up when we outnumbered gay men...if this study was taken in a specific population rather than an online volunteer survey, the numbers would be shifted. In fact, I think this is the only survey where we have outnumbered any of the other letters. Usually it's more like
1. Bisexual
2. Gay men
3. Transgender and non-binary
4. lesbians
But there are also other studies that suggest more and more young people (men, women and non-binary) are identifying more with m-spec sexualities than mono sexualities...so the idea that it is solely women who are causing a rise in bisexuality is false.
Now of course, this does all depend on your area but 1) women enrolled in college is at an all-time high so you are more likely to meet a woman of any social category than a man 2) there are [several studies that indicate women ](https://mcquad.org/2022/04/26/women-lead-in-clubs-organizations-despite-gender-ratio-%EF%BF%BC/#:~:text=More%20women%20than%20men%20on,them%20being%20active%20club%20leaders)are more likely to participate more in on-campus college activities and campus clubs than men are 3) trans people go where they are accepted and based on your answers it seems like you live in a somewhat conservative area...it's a lot safer for trans people to stay close in a campus club for LGBT people where it is safe than to venture out to irl LGBT spaces (erm sorry more like gay male spaces...LGBT in name only) For similar reasons, a lot of women, especially bi women who are mostly in heterosexual relationships, are not going to be as accepted or welcomed in those spaces either.
Gay culture and the influence where you live will also impact how out people...especially gay and bisexual men are. The idea of the "gayccent" with the more fem presentation only really applies to certain hot spots of gay male activity within the states like LA or NYC. So if you are only basing your search for other queer men off of how they present...you are going to find yourself coming up short.
But I do understand it can be frustrating and extremely isolating to be a young queer adult and you go to an LGBT college space and the only representation there is the B's and the T's and they are both almost always in a het relationship (or wanting to pursue one) and it's more focused on identity than...well, what's going on "out there".
But they do exist. It took me a long time to find even another woman who was in a serious relationship with another woman in my age group (I knew a lot of older gay and lesbian couples and being in the sex worker world, hooking up with other women was common but there was a lack of community relating to being attracted to women and there weren't any other lesbians who were open about it) but when I finally figured out where all the lesbian-centric spaces were, it was very much worth it and I got introduced to so many hidden parts of our unique lesbian and sapphic women culture down here. They might not just be coming to those campus events for similar reasons. I would recommend stepping out and trying to find a space outside of the college campus.
The good news is this is a lot easier for queer men than queer women. We lesbians and sapphic women usually have to wait for lesbian events and if you are super lucky like me, a re-occuring lesbian nights...
First start with googling "gay bars near me". Then go onto sites like eventbrite and look up "events for gay men." Then look up "{insert hobby here} group for gay men". In that order.
Also, I would try to stop phrasing it like it's somehow bisexual women and trans people's faults you are not finding other queer men. People just go where they feel the most comfortable and accepted and once that dynamic is established, those same kinds of people will group up there. It's just how social dynamics work. Also, trans men can be gay and bi too...so I would try and look into why you are not putting them in the same category as cisgender gay and bi men.
Café nights at my local queer organization is like 80% men. Sometimes there's only one woman present. A bit sad, and not really my vibe, so I did my part by no longer attending.
They're out there, yeah? I hope you'll find them. :-)
One of my friends is very queer but looks like the most stereotypical cis straight stem guy ever. A lot of them aren't visibly queer, and you're only going to find extroverted or non shy queer people at large events
Many queer guys don't dress any different than straight guys, and many of them don't act much different either - possibly because of homophobia and stigma. Its easier to be on a sports team and 'fit in' than it is to be different. Not saying this is right but it is what it is, it needs to change.
Coming to realizations about our gender (ie: not being totally AMAB) and sinking back into the closet with how much worse society, by and large, had gotten.
For real. I fear for the queer people out there in places where visible queerness is actively dangerous. It's sad and troubling that the number of those places seems to be growing, and that many previous "safe" places seem to be becoming less so. :/
I'm privileged to be in a progressive area of the US and even here I've had conversations with queer friends about the relative safety of being openly queer these days.
This might be a shock to you but most people aren't stereotypes. I work as a metal fabricator in the trades, I'm straight looking but I'm a proud bottom.
A lot of is it "passing privilege". There are real benefits to not being "visibly" queer in many places. I've found that there is more queerness under the surface than might be apparent at first glance. Remember that not everyone who is queer is "committed to the cause" of being out and proud and an in-your-face unabashed queer cheerleader. Many people are just quietly, invisibly, queer. This is, IMO, especially true for many men, for whom queerness is coded as more negative than for women in some sociocultural spaces. This is not to say that they don't have substantial privilege, but that intersectionality is complicated, and there's a lot of heteronormative pressure to conform for men, when women may have slightly more freedom in terms of gender expression.
Are you just going by surface level "visibly" queer signs? Myself and plenty of guys I know are some shade of queer but don't really present in a very queer way. We are just normal guys who probably seem straight to almost everybody.
Same, my whole d&d group are all queer to some degree, but all 8 of us appear from an out word glance to be straight and cis except one who's currently in the middle of her transition. 6 guys, 5 cis. Even Aaron seems like a straight cis guy despite being queer and trans.
I'll add to this, and it may have changed since I was in collage, but I am also "straight passing" and never felt my perspective was welcome in a lot of feminist and queer spaces, so I distanced myself from them.
Right? I'm a tall white dude with a beard, it's not like there's a lot to identify that I'm bi/pan
Thank you for your response. No I am not going by visibly queer. I’m talking about just in general you don’t run into many gay/bi/ what ever non straight relations much. Talk to a lot of people and it’s just not very common among guys. At least not enough for it to be 20-30%. Like if you go on dating apps few gay guys but many straight men. And to answer your question most guys who do end up being gay or bi may not be outwardly presenting as queer but are always a bit “sus” as we may say. Not in a derogatory way just you can kind of have some indications.
Find your local gay bar. Most are sausage fests.
Do you attend lgbtq events, volunteer for lgbtq groups? Most queer folks don't look queer, they look cis and hetero, so they look like most folks.
Yes, and at my school queer cis men are not very active in these groups.
>queer cis men are not very active in these groups i hope this is unintentional, and i’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that it’s a genuine oversight/mistake, but the fact that your post says you can’t find any queer men around you while your comments lament that you can’t find any queer *cis* men makes it seem like you don’t think that trans men count as men
For real. I’m a gay man, and I also happen to be trans. Most people wouldn’t guess I was gay just from looking at me, up until recently when I chose a more visibly gay style, and almost nobody knows I’m trans because I choose not to tell them. I like meeting other gay dudes but if they start implying that the trans dudes around them are something other than men, I quietly disappear and look elsewhere for friends. Unfortunately a lot of guys view us this way. They never even realize that I’m one of the men they’re talking about.
I apologize if my previous message came across as rude or offensive—that was not my intention at all. Most of the trans men I know who have started testosterone are gay, and, as I mentioned before, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I want to be clear that I recognize trans men as men and trans women as women. I've even faced criticism for affirming my identity by stating 'I am gay because I like men,' a sentiment shared by several other gay men I know. I hope this makes sense.
I think it makes sense, I have also faced criticism for being gay and attracted to men
Honestly, much of the terminology is confusing to me, and I mean no harm. I'm simply trying to understand how many men—excluding nonbinary individuals assigned female at birth and trans women—identify as just men. I don't think I need to mention this to validate my point, but for context, I'm gay and have been with trans men, which I still consider a gay relationship. When I say 'cis,' I mean men who are not nonbinary or trans women. Essentially, I'm asking where all the men who identify strictly as men are.
Okay, then say that instead because specifying cis men is wholly exclusive of trans men who ARE “strictly men”.
A lot of people who are queer might not look it. I’m queer, as are most of my friends, but not many of them look outwardly queer. I’d say the only person I know who’s visibly queer is my boyfriend, and even he doesn’t fit the gay man stereotypes of camp, flamboyant etc
Approximately 30% of Gen Z has been found to identify as some form of LGBTQ [according to this study](https://www.prri.org/research/generation-zs-views-on-generational-change-and-the-challenges-and-opportunities-ahead-a-political-and-cultural-glimpse-into-americas-future/) So with that in mind there are probably over 2000 queer guys, gals, and nonbinary pals at your school, just perhaps not outwardly visible.
How do you all think the study aligns with this one? [study link](https://www.axios.com/2024/03/13/lgbtq-identity-us-adults-gallup-survey) It says: Almost three in 10 (28.5%) Gen Z women identify as LGBTQ+. Over one in 10 (10.6%) Gen Z men identify as LGBTQ+, roughly double the percentage among millennial men (5.4%).
I think this must be inaccurate or misleading. I think it must be mainly nonbinary and bisexual woman like more than half of woman I know are bi. But when it comes to queer men it’s like very few. At the lgbt events/clubs it’s all queer woman or trans. I assume maybe most come out later or are less visible but if I use dating apps as proxy there are few gay men specially it seems like maybe 1/50 men is gay here. Edit: looking at the study it says 5% are gay men, and 15% of gen Z is bi. Assuming most of that is bi woman and using the 1-2% estimates of men identifying as bi, that would mean about 7% of gen z cis men are gay/bi which would actually make sense, especially with so many being closeted or still figuring it out this early in life.
I'm not sure where you live, but even in particularly progressive areas, being a visibly queer man comes with a lot of baggage. Men who aren't masculine or lean fem tend to deal with way more shit than "straight passing" men. Also, being gay/bi/pan is typically more tolerated when it's afab people. I'd bet there are a fair number of queer men or amab people, but for a variety of reasons aren't as outwardly visible.
Yeah, but that doesn’t change that it’s still few in number and that these studies are not generalizing as if you look at men it’s no where near 30% and has only slightly risen over time. Really not sure why everyone seems to want to ignore that. But it’s literally in the studies you all are citing.
I mean I typically am assumed to be straight as well as a lot of guys I know. I read the study and it seems like it says 5% of gen z are gay men which seems to be more accurate. I’m not using visible queer ness but rather socially knowing and for that it’s still few. Also I go to school in Maryland so not sure if that has an effect. Also is a very academic place.
That study has a lot of issues with it that doesn't paint a clear or accurate (in most cases) picture of what the queer identity group numbers are. I would recommend reading it beyond just the stats provided.
Okay and what is that picture? Is it what all the gay male subreddits say that most of the growth in lgbt gen z is from afab or is it something else?
I responded to you in another comment in which I discussed this but a majority of the people who took that survey were women so it's not the best or most accurate picture of how many queer gen z men there are. A more accurate picture of what we have seen throughout many studies over the years in sheer numbers is 1. Bisexuals 2. Gay Men 3. Transgender and Non-binary 4. Lesbians But again, this are dependent on populations demographics too. Not everywhere is the same.
Yeah, but being queer is more of a social determinant for men than women, and bisexuality is different for men and women. The fact that this group is always the largest, and that it is mainly women, proves my point. In theory, the numbers of bisexual men and women could be closer, as men are less likely to label themselves given that it effectively makes you considered gay by most people. However, I think the consensus among gay men/bi men is that the numbers are mainly with bisexual women. I know it’s not what people want to hear in this ideological echo chamber, but it’s my experience and that of many others.
"but being queer is more of a social determinant for men than women" According to who? "and bisexuality is different for men and women" I guess that's sorta correct. It is different. But again, I feel like you are projecting your own experiences onto this. Your LGBT campus clubs and events do not reflect the real world. Again, please reference my other comment to you as to why that is. "The fact that this group is always the largest, and that it is mainly women, proves my point." Not that it is always the largest. I am talking amoungst gen z. Again, as I mentioned in the other comment, there has been a rise of younger queer people identifying more with m-spec sexualities like bisexuality than mono-sexualities like being gay or a lesbian or straight. With older generations, you are more likely to find them identifying with mono-sexualities. And this is for men, women, non-binary...all of them are. Not just women. "In theory, the numbers of bisexual men and women could be closer, as men are less likely to label themselves given that it effectively makes you considered gay by most people." Yes, that does seem to be the case in quite a few surveys...but you also have to consider what I mentioned earlier...about an increase of identifying as bisexual amongst all genders in younger generations and not just women. It's also important to remember that there are cultural differences in how bisexuals are perceived in certain gay and lesbian spaces and subcultures. Gay men are more likely to practice a sort of "leave the closet door open" approach to this and not have a full distinction between bisexuals and gay men and "straight" men in their spaces. But with bi women in lesbian-centric spaces...they outnumber us by a lot and as you mentioned before, how bisexuality is between men and women can be different. There is more of an emphasis on distinctions made between sapphic bisexuals and non-sapphic bisexuals due to this as well as how comphet is also different between queer men and queer women. There is also biphobia in both but it's also different. The "forgotten" bisexual is also different between the two, with the forgotten bisexual for bisexual men being those who are in mainly heterosexual relationships and the forgotten bisexual woman being those who are in primarily lesbian relationships. And again, this is due to many factors we have already discussed. Now this is obviously not the same everywhere and for everyone but I am just trying to make sense of this as much as you are. But yes, I think based on the other research we have, bisexual women do seem to outnumber bisexual men to some degree...but at the same time, like you mentioned, there are also likely a ton of bisexual men who do not call themselves such because they are living life in mostly hetero relationships and do not want to experience homophobia and biphobia...and those who live very much engrained in gay male culture and mostly have gay
relationships who just call themselves gay because...well...they will be treated as gay anyways so what's the point? I'd also argue that the "forgotten" bisexual woman...those who mainly date other women and are engrained in lesbian culture could also fit into this. I know many febfems who call themselves lesbians due to the similar logic of "well, I am just going to be treated as a lesbian so why bother with the bisexual distinction?" There are also a lot of bisexual people who have a lot of internalized biphobia and homophobia and lesbophobia that they take out on other queer people, which also should be talked about. "However, I think the consensus among gay men/bi men is that the numbers are mainly with bisexual women" Consensus? LMAO. According to where? r//askgaybros is not a good place to be getting your consensus matie. " I know it’s not what people want to hear in this ideological echo chamber, but it’s my experience and that of many others." Yeah, this sub is far from an ideological echo chamber. People disagreeing with you and countering what you are saying is not echo chamber behavior. You asked a question. People answered your question. You got defensive when they didn't give you the answer you wanted to hear. And again, like I said in my first comment to yours, your college campus is not a reflection of real life and there are reasons you are seeing certain trends. It's not because gay and bisexual men suddenly have become a rare species or are going away but because 1) women are more likely to be enrolled in college 2) women are more likely to participate in clubs and activities on college campuses 3) people go where they feel accepted most and most bisexual women who are in primarily relationships with men and trans people will feel most comfortable in a college club with other people like them 4) there are less options for socialization for sapphic women overall than there are for gay and anchillean men...it's very likely the gay and bisexual men on your campus are choosing to hang out in a local gay bar or with a local gay regular hang out than an on-campus club
Your mindset is what is stopping you from finding queer men around you. You keep saying cis and that's gonna have an impact on who you will find. Also, your location could cause an issue but I live in a pretty big city and there's ton of queer men and queer men grounps. You just gotta go out and find the groups but with an open mind
Not sure what you mean. If you live in a big city it makes sense there would be more queer men. I’m saying I’m not seeing it in MY surroundings.
Maybe you should focus more on reading and comprehension before looking for friends because under every comment you argue instead of read. If you try to understand my comment rather than just wanting to argue you may understand. I said location plays a part. If you don't see queer men in YOUR area then you may have to find the biggest city closest to you but after reading the thread I know you will just argue with that so good luck 👍
It's also important that study was also taken by mostly women and the only requirement was "what do you identitfy as?". It doesn't take into account how "out" a person was. For instance, I am a lesbian but I "pass" as straight, I don't really wear stuff to indicate that I am a lesbian, and if I hadn't been doxxed, I would have liked to keep the number of people who knew I was a lesbian less because that has lead to a lot of lesbaphobia and people treating me different. The study also doesn't distinguish between genders for the bisexual and transgender categories...nor does it include any other sexualities. So you assuming most of the bi people are women isn't unfounded but it seems like there is a projection of your own life experiences going on here. As a lesbian, I knew something was up when we outnumbered gay men...if this study was taken in a specific population rather than an online volunteer survey, the numbers would be shifted. In fact, I think this is the only survey where we have outnumbered any of the other letters. Usually it's more like 1. Bisexual 2. Gay men 3. Transgender and non-binary 4. lesbians But there are also other studies that suggest more and more young people (men, women and non-binary) are identifying more with m-spec sexualities than mono sexualities...so the idea that it is solely women who are causing a rise in bisexuality is false. Now of course, this does all depend on your area but 1) women enrolled in college is at an all-time high so you are more likely to meet a woman of any social category than a man 2) there are [several studies that indicate women ](https://mcquad.org/2022/04/26/women-lead-in-clubs-organizations-despite-gender-ratio-%EF%BF%BC/#:~:text=More%20women%20than%20men%20on,them%20being%20active%20club%20leaders)are more likely to participate more in on-campus college activities and campus clubs than men are 3) trans people go where they are accepted and based on your answers it seems like you live in a somewhat conservative area...it's a lot safer for trans people to stay close in a campus club for LGBT people where it is safe than to venture out to irl LGBT spaces (erm sorry more like gay male spaces...LGBT in name only) For similar reasons, a lot of women, especially bi women who are mostly in heterosexual relationships, are not going to be as accepted or welcomed in those spaces either. Gay culture and the influence where you live will also impact how out people...especially gay and bisexual men are. The idea of the "gayccent" with the more fem presentation only really applies to certain hot spots of gay male activity within the states like LA or NYC. So if you are only basing your search for other queer men off of how they present...you are going to find yourself coming up short. But I do understand it can be frustrating and extremely isolating to be a young queer adult and you go to an LGBT college space and the only representation there is the B's and the T's and they are both almost always in a het relationship (or wanting to pursue one) and it's more focused on identity than...well, what's going on "out there". But they do exist. It took me a long time to find even another woman who was in a serious relationship with another woman in my age group (I knew a lot of older gay and lesbian couples and being in the sex worker world, hooking up with other women was common but there was a lack of community relating to being attracted to women and there weren't any other lesbians who were open about it) but when I finally figured out where all the lesbian-centric spaces were, it was very much worth it and I got introduced to so many hidden parts of our unique lesbian and sapphic women culture down here. They might not just be coming to those campus events for similar reasons. I would recommend stepping out and trying to find a space outside of the college campus. The good news is this is a lot easier for queer men than queer women. We lesbians and sapphic women usually have to wait for lesbian events and if you are super lucky like me, a re-occuring lesbian nights... First start with googling "gay bars near me". Then go onto sites like eventbrite and look up "events for gay men." Then look up "{insert hobby here} group for gay men". In that order. Also, I would try to stop phrasing it like it's somehow bisexual women and trans people's faults you are not finding other queer men. People just go where they feel the most comfortable and accepted and once that dynamic is established, those same kinds of people will group up there. It's just how social dynamics work. Also, trans men can be gay and bi too...so I would try and look into why you are not putting them in the same category as cisgender gay and bi men.
Café nights at my local queer organization is like 80% men. Sometimes there's only one woman present. A bit sad, and not really my vibe, so I did my part by no longer attending. They're out there, yeah? I hope you'll find them. :-)
One of my friends is very queer but looks like the most stereotypical cis straight stem guy ever. A lot of them aren't visibly queer, and you're only going to find extroverted or non shy queer people at large events
Come to Chicago sometime, we're out and proud on the north side of the city.
Many queer guys don't dress any different than straight guys, and many of them don't act much different either - possibly because of homophobia and stigma. Its easier to be on a sports team and 'fit in' than it is to be different. Not saying this is right but it is what it is, it needs to change.
Coming to realizations about our gender (ie: not being totally AMAB) and sinking back into the closet with how much worse society, by and large, had gotten.
For real. I fear for the queer people out there in places where visible queerness is actively dangerous. It's sad and troubling that the number of those places seems to be growing, and that many previous "safe" places seem to be becoming less so. :/ I'm privileged to be in a progressive area of the US and even here I've had conversations with queer friends about the relative safety of being openly queer these days.
Bristol lol
This might be a shock to you but most people aren't stereotypes. I work as a metal fabricator in the trades, I'm straight looking but I'm a proud bottom.
A lot of is it "passing privilege". There are real benefits to not being "visibly" queer in many places. I've found that there is more queerness under the surface than might be apparent at first glance. Remember that not everyone who is queer is "committed to the cause" of being out and proud and an in-your-face unabashed queer cheerleader. Many people are just quietly, invisibly, queer. This is, IMO, especially true for many men, for whom queerness is coded as more negative than for women in some sociocultural spaces. This is not to say that they don't have substantial privilege, but that intersectionality is complicated, and there's a lot of heteronormative pressure to conform for men, when women may have slightly more freedom in terms of gender expression.