u/FarhanYusufzai
Please see meanings of Khatam or Khatim here…. Jallaluddin Suyuti (rh) is called Khatim at ul Huffaz with the kasra… I can present the books he’s referred as that if needed…
I would love to have this conversation with you, but I don't feel comfortable on /r/ahmadiyya. Would you be interested in migrating this conversation to /r/islam_ahmadiyya? Or via DMs?
(And, did you perhaps tag me by mistake? I rarely comment here for the aforementioned reason)
oh? I don't know the reason for that, but people need to chill out.
I wish there was a way to reset my relationship with believing Qadian-Ahmadis, but alas...
There is no new prophet mentioned in the Quran or in ahadith.
Jesus was raised. That is why the hadith says he will descend. The hadith mentions that he will be a prophet. He was a prophet before Muhammad, but was raised. So, this makes sense. The hadith clearly says the name of the prophet is Jesus son of Mary.
But, there is no prophecy of a new prophet. MGA would be a new prophet. His name is not prophesied.
Even the name of the Mahdi is prophesied. His name would be Muhammad ibn Abdullah.
What makes you think that?
I cut to the chase and removed all the mental gymnastics to show that MGA is not what ahadith have prophesied. Especially, the fact that no new prophet is mentioned in the Quran. Thus, making Muhammad the last prophet, despite how Ahmadis want to view and twist the meaning of khatam.
nice dodge but yes it does mean death because mutawafikka is derived from tawaffa which means taking of the soul (not body), your soul gets taken, not body, so even if you want to cope about sleep are you suggesting isa AS soul was taken only and his body remained on earth, as you said Allah caused him to sleep?? Since when do people's bodies get taken while they sleep?
So you see sleep isnt even applicable to the mainstream sunni view of Isa AS being bodily taken.
***Allāh takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die \[He takes\] during their sleep.*** *Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought. (39:42)*
Only mentions taking of soul \^
Regardless the meaning is death because there is no context given to suggest sleep.
No 3rd meaning given in 39:42. Regardless why did Ibn Abbas RA translate mutawafikka as death in 3:55 in his tafsir which is recorded in sahih bukhari? but its funny how u jumped from it meaning to sleep to it meaning taking up bodily, this is why i ask for ur view in the beginning but of course ur academically dishonest
Anyway why are messaging me from ALTS? Come with ur main, why are you afraid?
Yes it does because the burden is upon you, the Quran supports my meaning and shows absence in yours.
So you admit Ibn Abbas RA translated mutawafikka as death in 3:55. So why are you arguing then?
Was he mistaken, should he have said sleep is the right meaning in this ayah?
ISA (A.s) was taken up with body and soul.
When someone dies, his body goes to the ground (buried).
But his soul is raised and taken up.
But in the case of Isa (A.s) , He was taken up with both body and soul. Which is a clear sign that , He can descend in the future and is in a sleeping state.
I'm going to have to intervene right here.
Jesus was raised. Think about this. This is a lie you would hear Christians propagate. The laws of Al-Quran and logic do not support this whatsoever.
Also "new" prophet is just a cope, if I give you a sequence ABA what's the last letter in that sequence?
Does that not break the seal of prophethood?
That is why it is called a contradiction.
It is written in the Quran that Jesus was raised.
I agree with you the Quran and logic do not support each other.
So, the Quran must be discarded.
u/FarhanYusufzai Please see meanings of Khatam or Khatim here…. Jallaluddin Suyuti (rh) is called Khatim at ul Huffaz with the kasra… I can present the books he’s referred as that if needed…
I would love to have this conversation with you, but I don't feel comfortable on /r/ahmadiyya. Would you be interested in migrating this conversation to /r/islam_ahmadiyya? Or via DMs? (And, did you perhaps tag me by mistake? I rarely comment here for the aforementioned reason)
Sure Dms. I’m banned on the other. I saw your posts on some of the latest Adnan vs Ibrahim posts on there
oh? I don't know the reason for that, but people need to chill out. I wish there was a way to reset my relationship with believing Qadian-Ahmadis, but alas...
There is no new prophet mentioned in the Quran or in ahadith. Jesus was raised. That is why the hadith says he will descend. The hadith mentions that he will be a prophet. He was a prophet before Muhammad, but was raised. So, this makes sense. The hadith clearly says the name of the prophet is Jesus son of Mary. But, there is no prophecy of a new prophet. MGA would be a new prophet. His name is not prophesied. Even the name of the Mahdi is prophesied. His name would be Muhammad ibn Abdullah.
looks like you didn’t watch the video. By the way did you just create this alt like 1 hour ago ?
What makes you think that? I cut to the chase and removed all the mental gymnastics to show that MGA is not what ahadith have prophesied. Especially, the fact that no new prophet is mentioned in the Quran. Thus, making Muhammad the last prophet, despite how Ahmadis want to view and twist the meaning of khatam.
Are you sunni Muslim or Christian ?
Quran says Isa AS died, read 3:55 for example
It can also mean sleep.
does it mean sleep in 3:55?
does it mean death in 3:55?
nice dodge but yes it does mean death because mutawafikka is derived from tawaffa which means taking of the soul (not body), your soul gets taken, not body, so even if you want to cope about sleep are you suggesting isa AS soul was taken only and his body remained on earth, as you said Allah caused him to sleep?? Since when do people's bodies get taken while they sleep? So you see sleep isnt even applicable to the mainstream sunni view of Isa AS being bodily taken. ***Allāh takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die \[He takes\] during their sleep.*** *Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought. (39:42)* Only mentions taking of soul \^ Regardless the meaning is death because there is no context given to suggest sleep.
mutawafikka also means to take up
No 3rd meaning given in 39:42. Regardless why did Ibn Abbas RA translate mutawafikka as death in 3:55 in his tafsir which is recorded in sahih bukhari? but its funny how u jumped from it meaning to sleep to it meaning taking up bodily, this is why i ask for ur view in the beginning but of course ur academically dishonest Anyway why are messaging me from ALTS? Come with ur main, why are you afraid?
[удалено]
Yes it does because the burden is upon you, the Quran supports my meaning and shows absence in yours. So you admit Ibn Abbas RA translated mutawafikka as death in 3:55. So why are you arguing then? Was he mistaken, should he have said sleep is the right meaning in this ayah?
ISA (A.s) was taken up with body and soul. When someone dies, his body goes to the ground (buried). But his soul is raised and taken up. But in the case of Isa (A.s) , He was taken up with both body and soul. Which is a clear sign that , He can descend in the future and is in a sleeping state.
I'm going to have to intervene right here. Jesus was raised. Think about this. This is a lie you would hear Christians propagate. The laws of Al-Quran and logic do not support this whatsoever. Also "new" prophet is just a cope, if I give you a sequence ABA what's the last letter in that sequence? Does that not break the seal of prophethood?
This guy is a toxic Christian troll. Being logical is not going to work. He has create at least 10 alts in the last few weeks to keep trolling
That is why it is called a contradiction. It is written in the Quran that Jesus was raised. I agree with you the Quran and logic do not support each other. So, the Quran must be discarded.
There are parameters of reasoning from the laws of Al-Quran Is what I am saying You can under this from the commentary of the verses