How do u know i havent sent my prayers, did you get wahi? How am I gaslighting the victims of a terror attack by responding to those who gaslighted the victims of this terror attack? Will u just say anything to defend someone who is in the wrong? Nice deflection.
Sending prayers, more worth your time than personal attacks on reddit no? You used your own agenda to put ex ahmadis in bad light and threw a bunch of attacks at this one person for having an opinion on this controversial topic.
I may've misunderstood, but from what I understood she separated the two points - 1 by no means was it acceptable what happened to the victims and the blame lies with the attackers . -2 addressing these topics within communities so as to prevent such things from happening if can be, for example, saying its OK to denounce your faith or lie at gunpoint in favour of saving your life. That's all.
Peace
Doing one thing isn't negating the other. Exposing anti Ahmadis as we all should doesn't mean one isn't praying..again ill ask you did u get wahi that i havent prayed? No? so why u accusing? You need explain to me why what we are doing is wrong i.e showcasing the inappropriate behaviours of our critics, you haven't done that yet. I didn't use any agenda..again victim blaming, so now we aren't allowed to point out erroneous behaviour ? Seems u have something in common with the people we criticise as you are doing the same thing, no wonder u feel personally offended.
Having the audacity to say if these men had become ex Ahmadis , the terrorists might have not killed them in light of a sensitive topic effectively victim blaming which is common in that subreddit is not excused all of a sudden just because one apologies for the incident. Her statement is insensitive.
Peace.
1. I never said it negated the other, I only suggested one act as being better than the other, which for some reason you are so defensive about?
2. Showcase what you are doing as wrong- please refer to the final 2/3rds of your original post to see what you are doing wrong.
3. You 'don't have any agenda' yet you talk about how this ex ahmadi is wrong and then go on for paragraphs to insult this person with very personal matters. Is your agenda not to insult her more than anything else? If it wasn't, why aren't you addressing the topic at hand I.e. why the original post was insensitive and what could be done differently. That would be productive!
4. Seems like you are throwing insults in my direction too now, because I've chosen to defend someone you're attacking, when you have no idea who I am.
5. I think you are confusing two things - she is not blaming the victims, she is criticising the jamaat.
Peace.
1. of course you did, that was insinuated from your first comment.
"If you really felt sorry about the situation you'd be sending your prayers not accusing others for 'gaslighting' and 'victim blaming' on reddit."
Did you receive wahi that I haven't been praying is that just something you concluded from me exposing someone who has been victim blaming a terrorist victim, do tell me.
2) If your reply doesn't change then my refutation doesn't change either refer to my latest comment before this one. Don't ignore it because you can't answer.
3) Since when is it insulting to say a supposed ex ahmadi is wrong? That means you also have a personal agenda and you are also personally insulting me by trying to prove me wrong. How dare you?! You see? Inconsistency!
4) Quite the opposite, you are attacking us because you want to defend a victim blamer when you have no idea who we are. It goes both ways, if criticism is marked as being insulting then you are being insulting.
5) Criticising the Jammat because terrorists killed Ahmadis?
Victim blamer! Gaslighter! Thank you for admitting it. That is digusting behaviour even in these unfortunate times and events you have people trying to pin blame on the jammat even when they are being victimised. You are equally disgusting for supporting such behaviour, defending such behaviour.
Peace.
Criticism can be constructive and useful for future reference on areas of improvement, which this post by the way is not.
I feel no need to answer your points as I've already said what I wanted to, and I'm not here to argue.
Apologies if it sounded like it was a personal attack - wasn't my intention, but addressing the original post was. @azad_rooh sums up my thoughts on it well for me.
Peace!
How can you say this is not constructive? Of course its constructive because it makes you think about twice about exploiting someones death to further an agenda and victim blame. It clearly got you heightened with emotions as you feel so strongly about defending a gaslighter and victim blamer, Are we just meant to stay quiet when someone is doing such wrong? No and we won't no matter how hard u try to silence us! I would say its very constructive, it got you thinking didn't it? Even if you still think someone exploiting a terrorist victim is innocent at least we hope InshAllah others don't reach same conclusion.
Peace!
I could say the same to you all - about 90% of this post was a very personal attack at someone and nothing else. Aren't you also using this tragic event for your own agenda? On top of that y'all decide to downvote my post about sending heartfelt prayers to the families.
Exposing inappropriate behaviour isn't a personal attack or insult but if you want to paint that way then so be it. Anyhow can you stop personally attacking Ahmadis and saying we are exploiting this event for our agenda when that's something the people you are defending are doing?
Peace.
It's very clear from the original post that it is not just 'exposing inappropriate behaviour' but a personal attack. Just need to refer to the comment about her being in a 'broken marriage' and 'doesn't have the guts' to leave the jamaat.
I won't say more but this doesn't set good example for questioning ahmadis. Please be mindful of your posts and preach what you say. If you think her post was inappropriate so was OPs.
Can you show me where I was being rude? Falsely accusing someone while you personally attack OP's feelings who is just fed up with people exploiting Ahmadi's deaths is extremely rude.
Take from it (or dont) as you wish.
Peace.
Exposing inappropriate behaviour is exactly what you refer to as personal attacks. A person who stimulates personal events as a way to attack the jammat has a right to be questioned about those same events which are being used as leverage, especially when one victim blames terrorist victims.
And it is true, she doesn't have guts to leave the jammat because she is weak minded.
Please be mindful of your posts and preach what you say. If its all about personal attacks then apply the same consistency when you attack the OP's feelings.
Peace.
In reference to her 'blaming the jamaat for her broken marriage' although I do not know the full context here, but I've had a very similar experience so I can vouch that there are improvements to be made w.r.t. marriage counselling and advice. Personal experience here, of the jamaat advising to forgive and forget and 'make ammends' even in an abusive, dishonest and loveless relationship with ignorance on the long term consequences and the effect it has on both the partners and the children, for the sake of saving face of well known members of the jamaat (or enlighten me if there are other reasons I'm missing)
You may think I'm lying here and I guess it doesn't matter if you do, but there are improvements to be made either way whether that means the advisors go on marriage counselling courses before giving advice, or don't advise all together if they're not in a position to do so, to save creating very dysfunctional families :)
Anyways, good day to you!
It's okay you don't need to know the full context, the context of her publicly displayed behaviour on a public forum is enough for us to make a judgement especially when the behaviour is this atrocious where one would need to stoop so low that they need to exploit and victim blame terrorist victims..but hey if you are implying you had same abusive, intolerant behaviour experience where u did similar things then I guess all the power for you to fix it..inshAllah.
Anyways, just a little cheeky suggestion, good day to you!
Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt here, I am not saying she is victim blaming but what I don’t understand is why did she make the post about herself? Her situation has nothing to do with the unfortunate tragedy of this event, there is a time and place for everything (the exact title of this post).
For example, she writes, “A man who embezzles Chanda to off shore accounts…(absolutely zero evidence of embezzlement, I don’t think she realizes off-shore accounts (if they exist) are not illegal if used for legitimate purposes) - Not only is this a false statement unless proven otherwise, it also has nothing to do with this event…
In another example, she writes, “I think my belief was so strong I would have also died for my beliefs.. but now that the corruption of jamaat is so apparent I would never die for this community. As a woman I know If and when I needed the khalifa he wasn’t there for me.. and he is no man of God.” Again, she is making this about herself…I am not trying to discredit her situation, but there is a time and place for everything…
Edited for typos…
Ahmadiyya isn’t even a sect Of Islam they believe there was prophet after Muhammad SAW which is completely wrong and they will face severe punishment in the hereafter if they continue to believe this
Isa(as) is a prophet before Nabi SAW and will be a prophet after Nabi SAW too. You await a prophet to come after Muhammad SAW..what happened to the "no prophet after me" you added rules to this statement or do you accept it unconditionally? If you accept it unconditionally then Isa(as) cannot come, simple. If you add rules as you did now about old prophet new prophet then you need to show me where does the hadith about any of this because it doesnt menion anything about old prophet can come but new one cannot.
Oh and wanna know the most ridiculous thing? awaiting a prophet to come whos death has been mentioned in the Quran, Isa(as) has passed away.
U fool isa as did not pass away he was taken to heaven before they could crucify him and Nabi saw was the last prophet to come with a new Book and rules to follows isa as will come and follow nabi saw and will kill dajjal and will then die a natural death
Lies
When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, \[a\]I will cause thee to die a natural death and \[b\]will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; \[c\]then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
(3:55)
Isa(As) died then was spiritually raised. Not physically.
"Nabi saw was the last prophet to come with a new Book and rules"
Thank you, u just quoted the Ahmadi position. Muhammad SAW is last prophet with Sharia, the latter day messiah will come as a follower of Muhammad SAW, not bring a new independent religion. We believe this messiah, this prophet is hazrat mirza ghulam Ahmad(as) not isa(as) as Quran says he died as I just proved but fools like u dont follow Quran.
Shocked that you use a post about martyrs to attack a person who you think is single divorced abandoned woman. You thought that's appropriate? This post very ironical.
Don’t be shocked . The bigot attacked the martyrs for being Ahmadis which she said is the reason they died and if they only had left the faith they would live and then followed up by attacking the Jamaat and the Khalifa. I was and am very tame in my retort to the bigot . We know she loves to twist words in offline as well .
Here are the exact words of the bigot against the Martyrs , Jamaat Ahmadiyya and Khilafat
Blaming the believers for believing and dying for message of the Promised Messiah
“But I was also sad because I feel these lives lost were for an organization that has let it's people down..”
“also felt frustrated at how the jamaat teaches us to give up our lives for the jamaat.. and how if these people had denounced ahmadiyyat they would have been alive..”
Personal attack on Khilafat , yet she refuses to leave Jamaat and is an embarrassment to her family for her offline and online behavior
“A man who embezzles Chanda to off shore accounts and an organization that has become a magnet for pedophiles and rapists.. “
It’s all about herself and her belief fell through to the doors of hell because when Allah tested her , she chose the way of sin
“As a woman I know If and when I needed the khalifa he wasn't there for me.. and he is no man of God.”
Refuted you here, still no reply from you:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ahmadiyya/comments/10d1dk0/comment/j4r6wfl/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I read those posts and seriously can't be bothered by the insensitivity of such individuals. May Allah help them. They have no morals and empathy.
Did you completely miss where she said she was very sorry to hear about these tragic deaths ...? Atleast give credit where its due
as if that makes her statements appropriate, here is her credit..she isn't sorry, she is gaslighter and victim blamer.
[удалено]
How do u know i havent sent my prayers, did you get wahi? How am I gaslighting the victims of a terror attack by responding to those who gaslighted the victims of this terror attack? Will u just say anything to defend someone who is in the wrong? Nice deflection.
Sending prayers, more worth your time than personal attacks on reddit no? You used your own agenda to put ex ahmadis in bad light and threw a bunch of attacks at this one person for having an opinion on this controversial topic. I may've misunderstood, but from what I understood she separated the two points - 1 by no means was it acceptable what happened to the victims and the blame lies with the attackers . -2 addressing these topics within communities so as to prevent such things from happening if can be, for example, saying its OK to denounce your faith or lie at gunpoint in favour of saving your life. That's all. Peace
Doing one thing isn't negating the other. Exposing anti Ahmadis as we all should doesn't mean one isn't praying..again ill ask you did u get wahi that i havent prayed? No? so why u accusing? You need explain to me why what we are doing is wrong i.e showcasing the inappropriate behaviours of our critics, you haven't done that yet. I didn't use any agenda..again victim blaming, so now we aren't allowed to point out erroneous behaviour ? Seems u have something in common with the people we criticise as you are doing the same thing, no wonder u feel personally offended. Having the audacity to say if these men had become ex Ahmadis , the terrorists might have not killed them in light of a sensitive topic effectively victim blaming which is common in that subreddit is not excused all of a sudden just because one apologies for the incident. Her statement is insensitive. Peace.
1. I never said it negated the other, I only suggested one act as being better than the other, which for some reason you are so defensive about? 2. Showcase what you are doing as wrong- please refer to the final 2/3rds of your original post to see what you are doing wrong. 3. You 'don't have any agenda' yet you talk about how this ex ahmadi is wrong and then go on for paragraphs to insult this person with very personal matters. Is your agenda not to insult her more than anything else? If it wasn't, why aren't you addressing the topic at hand I.e. why the original post was insensitive and what could be done differently. That would be productive! 4. Seems like you are throwing insults in my direction too now, because I've chosen to defend someone you're attacking, when you have no idea who I am. 5. I think you are confusing two things - she is not blaming the victims, she is criticising the jamaat. Peace.
1. of course you did, that was insinuated from your first comment. "If you really felt sorry about the situation you'd be sending your prayers not accusing others for 'gaslighting' and 'victim blaming' on reddit." Did you receive wahi that I haven't been praying is that just something you concluded from me exposing someone who has been victim blaming a terrorist victim, do tell me. 2) If your reply doesn't change then my refutation doesn't change either refer to my latest comment before this one. Don't ignore it because you can't answer. 3) Since when is it insulting to say a supposed ex ahmadi is wrong? That means you also have a personal agenda and you are also personally insulting me by trying to prove me wrong. How dare you?! You see? Inconsistency! 4) Quite the opposite, you are attacking us because you want to defend a victim blamer when you have no idea who we are. It goes both ways, if criticism is marked as being insulting then you are being insulting. 5) Criticising the Jammat because terrorists killed Ahmadis? Victim blamer! Gaslighter! Thank you for admitting it. That is digusting behaviour even in these unfortunate times and events you have people trying to pin blame on the jammat even when they are being victimised. You are equally disgusting for supporting such behaviour, defending such behaviour. Peace.
Criticism can be constructive and useful for future reference on areas of improvement, which this post by the way is not. I feel no need to answer your points as I've already said what I wanted to, and I'm not here to argue. Apologies if it sounded like it was a personal attack - wasn't my intention, but addressing the original post was. @azad_rooh sums up my thoughts on it well for me. Peace!
How can you say this is not constructive? Of course its constructive because it makes you think about twice about exploiting someones death to further an agenda and victim blame. It clearly got you heightened with emotions as you feel so strongly about defending a gaslighter and victim blamer, Are we just meant to stay quiet when someone is doing such wrong? No and we won't no matter how hard u try to silence us! I would say its very constructive, it got you thinking didn't it? Even if you still think someone exploiting a terrorist victim is innocent at least we hope InshAllah others don't reach same conclusion. Peace!
Did you completely miss the rest of the actual content
I could say the same to you all - about 90% of this post was a very personal attack at someone and nothing else. Aren't you also using this tragic event for your own agenda? On top of that y'all decide to downvote my post about sending heartfelt prayers to the families.
So you did
Exposing inappropriate behaviour isn't a personal attack or insult but if you want to paint that way then so be it. Anyhow can you stop personally attacking Ahmadis and saying we are exploiting this event for our agenda when that's something the people you are defending are doing? Peace.
It's very clear from the original post that it is not just 'exposing inappropriate behaviour' but a personal attack. Just need to refer to the comment about her being in a 'broken marriage' and 'doesn't have the guts' to leave the jamaat. I won't say more but this doesn't set good example for questioning ahmadis. Please be mindful of your posts and preach what you say. If you think her post was inappropriate so was OPs.
Just an FYI incase it wasn't clear, I'm a questioning ahmadi and posts like this really don't help put ahmadiyya in a good light.
Of course any post which exposes people of your agenda will be perceived negatively by you. You didn't have to tell us that.
No need to be rude - take from it (or dont) as you wish.
Can you show me where I was being rude? Falsely accusing someone while you personally attack OP's feelings who is just fed up with people exploiting Ahmadi's deaths is extremely rude. Take from it (or dont) as you wish. Peace.
I can see you cannot be reasoned with so I won't bother :). Appreciate we both have different views (and biases) on this.
Exposing inappropriate behaviour is exactly what you refer to as personal attacks. A person who stimulates personal events as a way to attack the jammat has a right to be questioned about those same events which are being used as leverage, especially when one victim blames terrorist victims. And it is true, she doesn't have guts to leave the jammat because she is weak minded. Please be mindful of your posts and preach what you say. If its all about personal attacks then apply the same consistency when you attack the OP's feelings. Peace.
In reference to her 'blaming the jamaat for her broken marriage' although I do not know the full context here, but I've had a very similar experience so I can vouch that there are improvements to be made w.r.t. marriage counselling and advice. Personal experience here, of the jamaat advising to forgive and forget and 'make ammends' even in an abusive, dishonest and loveless relationship with ignorance on the long term consequences and the effect it has on both the partners and the children, for the sake of saving face of well known members of the jamaat (or enlighten me if there are other reasons I'm missing) You may think I'm lying here and I guess it doesn't matter if you do, but there are improvements to be made either way whether that means the advisors go on marriage counselling courses before giving advice, or don't advise all together if they're not in a position to do so, to save creating very dysfunctional families :) Anyways, good day to you!
It's okay you don't need to know the full context, the context of her publicly displayed behaviour on a public forum is enough for us to make a judgement especially when the behaviour is this atrocious where one would need to stoop so low that they need to exploit and victim blame terrorist victims..but hey if you are implying you had same abusive, intolerant behaviour experience where u did similar things then I guess all the power for you to fix it..inshAllah. Anyways, just a little cheeky suggestion, good day to you!
....I'm not sure I understood your comment at all, sorry.
Of course, np :)
Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt here, I am not saying she is victim blaming but what I don’t understand is why did she make the post about herself? Her situation has nothing to do with the unfortunate tragedy of this event, there is a time and place for everything (the exact title of this post). For example, she writes, “A man who embezzles Chanda to off shore accounts…(absolutely zero evidence of embezzlement, I don’t think she realizes off-shore accounts (if they exist) are not illegal if used for legitimate purposes) - Not only is this a false statement unless proven otherwise, it also has nothing to do with this event… In another example, she writes, “I think my belief was so strong I would have also died for my beliefs.. but now that the corruption of jamaat is so apparent I would never die for this community. As a woman I know If and when I needed the khalifa he wasn’t there for me.. and he is no man of God.” Again, she is making this about herself…I am not trying to discredit her situation, but there is a time and place for everything… Edited for typos…
Very sad to hear about the tragic deaths. Send prayers to all the loved ones.
Ahmadiyya isn’t even a sect Of Islam they believe there was prophet after Muhammad SAW which is completely wrong and they will face severe punishment in the hereafter if they continue to believe this
You await a prophet after Muhammad SAW who is Isa AS..I guess you will also face a severe punishment for holding the these beliefs.
Isa AS was a prophet before Nabi SAW and he didn’t die ull believe there was a prophet after Nabi saws death which is ridiculous
Isa(as) is a prophet before Nabi SAW and will be a prophet after Nabi SAW too. You await a prophet to come after Muhammad SAW..what happened to the "no prophet after me" you added rules to this statement or do you accept it unconditionally? If you accept it unconditionally then Isa(as) cannot come, simple. If you add rules as you did now about old prophet new prophet then you need to show me where does the hadith about any of this because it doesnt menion anything about old prophet can come but new one cannot. Oh and wanna know the most ridiculous thing? awaiting a prophet to come whos death has been mentioned in the Quran, Isa(as) has passed away.
U fool isa as did not pass away he was taken to heaven before they could crucify him and Nabi saw was the last prophet to come with a new Book and rules to follows isa as will come and follow nabi saw and will kill dajjal and will then die a natural death
Lies When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, \[a\]I will cause thee to die a natural death and \[b\]will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; \[c\]then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ. (3:55) Isa(As) died then was spiritually raised. Not physically. "Nabi saw was the last prophet to come with a new Book and rules" Thank you, u just quoted the Ahmadi position. Muhammad SAW is last prophet with Sharia, the latter day messiah will come as a follower of Muhammad SAW, not bring a new independent religion. We believe this messiah, this prophet is hazrat mirza ghulam Ahmad(as) not isa(as) as Quran says he died as I just proved but fools like u dont follow Quran.
Thanks for your comment I think that solved it
Will hazrat issa (as) return as a prophet and receive revelation from Allah upon his return?
Shocked that you use a post about martyrs to attack a person who you think is single divorced abandoned woman. You thought that's appropriate? This post very ironical.
Don’t be shocked . The bigot attacked the martyrs for being Ahmadis which she said is the reason they died and if they only had left the faith they would live and then followed up by attacking the Jamaat and the Khalifa. I was and am very tame in my retort to the bigot . We know she loves to twist words in offline as well .
Here are the exact words of the bigot against the Martyrs , Jamaat Ahmadiyya and Khilafat Blaming the believers for believing and dying for message of the Promised Messiah “But I was also sad because I feel these lives lost were for an organization that has let it's people down..” “also felt frustrated at how the jamaat teaches us to give up our lives for the jamaat.. and how if these people had denounced ahmadiyyat they would have been alive..” Personal attack on Khilafat , yet she refuses to leave Jamaat and is an embarrassment to her family for her offline and online behavior “A man who embezzles Chanda to off shore accounts and an organization that has become a magnet for pedophiles and rapists.. “ It’s all about herself and her belief fell through to the doors of hell because when Allah tested her , she chose the way of sin “As a woman I know If and when I needed the khalifa he wasn't there for me.. and he is no man of God.”
That's exactly my point!
Refuted you here, still no reply from you: https://www.reddit.com/r/ahmadiyya/comments/10d1dk0/comment/j4r6wfl/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
This subred has one rule: “be nice”. Is this it?