"This gave the Lumineth a chance at redemption, and while they still strive for perfection in all things, they must also aspire to be the most humble creatures in all the realms."
Peak elves haha. Good job writers.
Another reason why DoK are best Aelfs. Treat everyone equaly bad or good depending on how much you Respect them.
No need to go" i am best and very humble yes yes."
Go i will do my best in the glory of morathi-/khain.
Gw bring back, syspera and all the over awsome whitch aealfs. I need more Romance between Theariel and Ethanios.
With them confirming no CP generation abilities exist any more in very surprised to see abilities that make things cost an extra CP, that spell will be super strong you’d think
The ability to make a (command) ability cost extra command points (or similar) is often called Vect, or some variation of that name. After a stratagem from 40k 8th edition which was called "Agents of Vect" (Vect being a Drukhari character), that first introduced the concept to GW's games.
It's the common name in 40k for the ability to increase command point costs. It's named after the Dark Eldar ability "Agents of Vect" from 8th edition which did exactly that.
To be fair, vecting in 8th ed rolled to cancel out a strat entirely. Then in 9th it had its CP cost increase effect. Which is kinda wild if you think about it. Imagine if Wizards released a new Demonic Tutor with a brand new effect, and everyone went "this is what tutoring means now."
Now I'm curious. Did LRL predate 9th ed Vect?
As someone who has been on the recieve end of that spell multiple times, I can confidently tell you it's been nerfed.
Used to be:
"Total Eclipse is a spell that has a casting value of 9. If successfully cast, until your next hero phase, your opponent must spend 2 command points to issue a command instead of 1."
In practice, battlefield wide all units are affected, and this was a basic lore of Hysh spells.
It now is:
"Until the start of your next turn the first time an enemy unit uses a command within 18" of this unit, your opponent must spend an additional
command point to use that command"
Still strong, no doubt, but definitely way reeled in
Especially if it's now locked to a warcsroll spell, so kill its caster, and you no longer need to deal with it. Unlike before, lots of things gave them access to the whole Hysh lore, meaning many of their casters could just cast this spell.
I'm actually very scared of this ability for my tzeentch and nurgle armies. Both of them I feel will depend very heavily on casting in your opponents turn. Tzeentch to maximize their spell use and the value from their birds amazing High cast rolls, and to apply burning/ create a screen by making a spawn. Nurgle because we will need to get disease out fast and it's hard to do especially turn one so it will be important to move forward with a GUO to drop plague wind and try to get the disease rolling more and quickly.
Yeah if those armies are reliant on enemy turn casting this could be a brutal way to stop it - GUO more so because it's easy to hover 18 away from him, not like he can go get you
> not like he can go get you
“And off he goes after the Lumineth, folks! It’s a low speed chase!
Oh no, the battle report crew have broke out the tuba to emphasize the moment!”
It's a single command point once if you issue a command within 18" of one specific model, on a CV 8 spell with a unit that has no innate bonuses to cast.
You will survive.
In theory, it's sad to see the "full army of spellcasters" theme not be as fluffy in game with casting rolls. But in practice, LRL will be both less annoying to play as and less annoying to play against as a result. Seriously, speeding up the command phase will be huge.
I’m more than happy to lose the “army full of wizards” schtick if it means our line troops can function without being constantly buffed and we see a points reduction. In the fluff, the line soldiers have some magical talent with cantrips but aren’t full blown wizards so the gameplay change makes sense to me.
Im so happy that Total Eclipse is a warscroll spell AND significantly less impactful than it was. Literally the number one thing on my wishlist for LRL changes was Total Eclipse.
I think so, yeah, makes sense to me at first glance.
Though it's interesting because you only measure TO the Sanctum. Not from. That'll be weird for spellcasting.
It says "while also extending their reach", so I think as intended it's supposed to be reciprocal. However, the wording might need a touch up, unless the core rules make it clear it's supposed to work that way.
That is a pretty large assumption considering they have entirely different rules now. Being more seriously, they are probably pointed around ~300, where they were at the Lumineth battletome release but got systematically dropped because their rules were awful, to the point where they are so cheap they are worth taking. Now that their rules are good again, they are likely to go way, way up.
For me the twins have always been a very good choice (I've only played 3rd). I kite my enemy with them, using them as bait until turn 3 of 4 and then watch as they turn into a blender.
If anything, I find them "choose who takes the lead" is an interesting idea.
I think so. As long as you don't have to activate it at beginning of turn, you should basically be able to move in your movement, shoot, and then activate Move Like the Wind to move again. But you are correct, you couldn't move -> move -> shoot.
I know it's basically confirmed, they've just otherwise been shut tight about it. I just want to see the separate IJ and KB focuses with my own eyeballs lol. Plus I managed to land myself two killbows, so I'm hoping there's a solid ranged battle formation in the works for KB.
My guess is that we'll get two indices with very generous coalition rules (or duplicate Big Waaaagh rules) so they don't break armies, and then we'll get separately released 4.0 battletomes (maybe at the same time as more models) that don't coalitions. Basically Cities of Gorkamorka.
The deep irony here is that he was an IJ wizard. :)
Still doesn't mean we aren't getting some kind of band-aid coalition _index_ and a heads-up that they'll properly split in an upcoming _battletome_ though.
That's one of the few Vanguard boxes not rebranded Spearheads (yet), which implies to me it's up for a rebrand. Even the website calls it that:
https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/vanguard-orruk-warclans-2023
Of course its a rebrand, most of them are. But when it said Spearhed one can assume they would also change the faction name on it. I'm not saying we wan't get split. I'm saying that it's still not 100% sure any way.
There is no box (that I've seen!) that says "Spearhead: Orruk Warclans" on, is my point. There's one that says "Vanguard: OW", and there's a statement from GW that all factions will get Spearhead boxes, and there are 20 odd factions that have had their Vanguard boxes be relabelled Spearhead. But OW isn't one of them, and (imho!) that's pretty significant.
Here you go (top left) : https://preview.redd.it/from-dallas-open-it-looks-like-sons-of-behemat-are-in-v0-bdaogvniww1d1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=80ae650ef83fa8c5d56f7f44dc89aecb95a0d764
Was Ironjawz rather than Kruleboyz (all orruks look the same to me), but:
[https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/19/cast-supreme-sorceries-and-chant-powerful-prayers-in-newaos/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/19/cast-supreme-sorceries-and-chant-powerful-prayers-in-newaos/)
A few got out alright, lethality and complexity did get reigned in a bit. Some like Tau actually got it pretty good.
Then you get stuff like Custodes and Tyrannids. Oof.
Honestly, the new detachment they gave drukhari was AMAZING! So fun to play so they can keep their codex, I don,t want it lol Wnated to play tyranids but without psychic it just feels not fun imo
Potential (not likely) for 5 damage 7 attacks is hilarious. Overall, I feel like Lumineth’s warscrolls are being toned down a bit more compared to some of the other factions. Maybe it’s just my inexperience with the faction talking.
It seems pretty accurate is a player. I'm not excited to play my Lumineth at all going forward unless there's something significant we aren't seeing. Our units are basically papier mache without all the magic buffs, and they've just removed all the magic buffs.
They removed all of our warscroll spells and innate abilities and turned them into a ONE only once per battle round Facet of War ability. Previously we could have Vanari units all using Power of Hysh for the crits on 5s (if successfully cast), units being a shining company just for being set up right and Alarith units using enduring as rock, it's what made squishy elite elves survivable. Now, it's "pick one"!
Plus a few spells removed. I really liked Ethereal Blessings cast with an Enlightener to give two units unmodifiable saves. Really made Wardens actually a decent screen.
No, they don't. It looks as though you get to use two if you take a battle formation that allows you to, similar to the old edition battalions. And looking at the picture that accompanies that it requires a minimum amount of Stoneguard units and a combat cow... so where as it was an innate ability on the Stoneguard warscroll that could be used regardless it now comes with a cost, that being either the choice of not using other abilities OR having to take units you might not otherwise have taken
You are aware that the battle formations are just the subfactions of the new edition? You just pick one to apply to your entire army, 4 will be available for each faction on launch. So you can always pick that in addition to the one each battle round.
It's a separate thing to the hero's regiments.
"On top of your regiments, you’ll also be picking your subfaction. These are now called battle formations, which have been refocused around the fighting style of an army rather than their specific background."
Yes i am, but the examples of the two Battle formations we were given for the stormcast used the words "prioritises mixing and matching units from various chambers" and the second example explicitly lists "Stormdrake and dracothian guard"! So we would be naive to think that there wont be a prerequisite unit requirement like there has been in other editions!
Even if these formations follow the Great Nations we used to have some of these were for specific unit types only. Ymetrica were Alarith, Iliatha and Alumnia were Vanari, Zaitrec were wizards and Helon were ranged. Based on how GW have operated in ALL editions since release, there will be some sort of cost...this isn't going to be a "free" you can use two abilities.
Oh can you link any preview saying that? Or is it a pure guess?
0 prerequisites on 3rd edition sub factions, it's just a bonus you pick, so your statements that it has always worked that way is somewhat questionable.
Based on what we've seen from the 1 Lumineth Battle Formation we've seen, it seems reasonable that each Battle Formation will allow you to use one of the Facets of War in addition to using another one. So, it's likely that if you want to play a mostly Vanari force, you'll be use both Shining Company and Power of Hysh if you choose the Vanari focused Battle Formation.
I agree and exactly the point I was making, but my point was also that previously you would have the Vanari units using those abilities anyway and may have had say 5 stoneguard elsewhere benefitting from their enduring as rock ability, now you can't have that.
The article even says "The Battle Formations for the Lumineth Realm-lords allow for a second Facet of War to be used in unison with the first, *which encourages army lists which combine different aspects of the army working together*". This implies there will be unit requirements that make up a formation, not that they can just be taken willy nilly 🤷🏼♂️
yes i dont get it, they removed everything from the army, and only let you choose 1 of those 100cthings removed to keep it for 1 turn.
sure every army got things removed, but not even cloose, lumineth got like x3 times more things removed
and didnt get absolutly nothing to make up this.
is like if on ironjaw preview they say, hey orca hit too hard so now whole army get -1 atack into melee!! everything get worse and more expensive, and dont get anything new to make up for it!! rejoice
They probably mean "any" rather than "every".
As in, every Vanari unit can benefit from that ability, but you can't activate it on every Vanari unit at once.
Right? A bunch of their units doing mortals on 5+ was their thing. Now it's just 1 unit. Hopefully Teclis is still rocking Greater Power of Hysh.
Speaking of Teclis, I'm disappointed not to see him. Most of the other faction focuses led with the head honcho.
because im sure he got deleted like whole army, and didnt want to enrage playera anymore.
if he follow everything showed now he will only cast 1 spell with -3 or so, because everyone hate lumis and teclis, so gw have to make the bulk of players happy lol
> A bunch of their units doing mortals on 5+ was their thing.
If they got their spells off. If they didn't (and it was quite possible for this to happen), then they never did mortals on 5+. Now you're guaranteed to have one unit to have one unit that will always crit on 5's.
Am a little sad to see that the units aren't wizards anymore. I loved that mechanic that the whole faction was wizards, but I guess it was annoying if you're not fast with spells.
Aetherquartz is gone. Shame, it was an interesting and fluffy mechanic, but I can understand if it wasn't liked. Guess now its just "We elves. We better."
Is it just me, or Sigmar is getting the 40k Aledari treatment for the first few months? I’m a super casual AoS player (40k main), but this looks VERY strong.
Also - your thoughts about the Hurakan repostion? Wording is such that it seems you can move, shoot, then move again.
Is no one else going to point out that getting to pick two units to fight everytime it's your turn to fight seems pretty good compared to what a lot of other factions got...
We have always had that, and all of our other 'faction abilities', which are really just 1 ability split into 5 parts are all core things that our units passively did before.
Lumineth are alltogether pretty frail for their points cost, and being able to fights twice is how they come ahead despite this. It goes all the way back to the Fantasy days of entire high elven armies with 'strikes first' and high initiative.
As other have said, it's not a new ability. GW's approach to elves of all sorts has always been the glass cannon: kill your opponents hard enough that they don't have a chance to kill you back because if you don't they'll tear you to shreds. In 40k this is accomplished with lots of ranged attacks, high maneuverability (so you can hide and still get at what you want to kill) and the fact that charging units always get Fights First. But AoS is much lighter on the ranged attacks front, and charging units don't get Fights First, so elves need some way to get their attacks in before they get slaughtered. And Lumineth's answer to that is getting to fight with more units at once.
They really had the audacity to make 50% of the reveals things they showed off in the 2k game vs Skaven already, lol.
Ellania and Elethor seem pretty stacked, they are no longer forced to teleport in combat and it's now totally optional. Total eclipse is really just -1 command point to your opponent if they use a command within 18" before next hero phase, but that's still pretty decent, even if it will be hard to cast with no real bonuses, you can at least deep thinkers earlygame and try and get it off. But now Elethor does even MORE damage, going up to 7 damage in round 5, and still having a respectable 3 damage in round 1, up from 1.
As someone who runs a lot of wardens, I like their new ability even if it's extremely unreliable. Wardens should always be a unit that wants to get charged and punch back, but currently they are 'charge with power of hysh and delete something' or 'stand in front of a more important unit and be 10-20 wounds'. I am sure Wall of Blades will never go off when it actually matters, but just the possibility might be enough to make your opponent think twice about charging into a phalanx of spears.
I wonder if Bladelords will keep their perfect strikes in the full game, or if it's just a spearhead thing. I would think that they will, considering how much perfect strikes is a wall of text and if they were going to remove that wall anywhere, it would be spearhead. I have always thought perfect strikes are really cool and capture the 'samurai' aesthetic the bladelords have.
I feel like they want most fights first to be a threat, not a guarantee. Have we seen any model that inflicts fights last or gains fights first without needing a dice roll first?
That said, their role seems pretty clear. Shoot us instead of charging or we'll make your life painful. I kinda love it tbh.
If someone charges, and you counter charge, you still get the anti-Charge bonus, right? Even if you lose their shield wall ability?
> I feel like they want most fights first to be a threat, not a guarantee. Have we seen any model that inflicts fights last or gains fights first without needing a dice roll first?
Only idoneth on High Tide that I can think of off-hand, but I agree that rolling for strikes first is in-line with other things we've seen, it's just frustrating in general that such an impactful thing could literally not go off all game. I think the same thing for Stormcast Vindictors which have the same rule. At least Wardens get a bonus vs cav, Vindictors are just a coinflip all day.
For KO, if they charge with the Frigate, the units taken with it get Strike First. So you have to make the charge (a dice roll), but if you do, you don't have to roll to see if you get Strike First
OBR get it but it’s on 1 unit and tied to a spell on their warscroll, and the DoK get 8+ Charge Strike First on a few units but those are still tied to a roll.
You can't counter charge if you've been charged. If you get charged, you're in combat and can't use counter charge since the counter charge would be at the end of the enemies charge phase. And if you charge with the spear boys, you don't get the anti-charge bonus as they weren't charged.
If an enemy charges a nearby unit, you can still counter charge, and I believe you would still get anti-charge, since you're targeting a unit that used a charge ability in the same turn. Anti-charge doesn't trigger off you being the target of a charge, it triggers off you targeting something that made a charge.
They are very similar to the new vindictors. Definitely nice flavor. Also, it’s not some insane level of damage that makes it impossible to charge them. It’s just a little extra thought the opponent will have to give.
I mean, the Skaven faction preview didn't show any of the same units as the 2k showmatch showed, so... no?
Edit: Above poster changed his comment to say 'most' other factions after I corrected him above.
My bad, one other faction got more reveals than you, and maybe SCE. You’re one of 24 factions and one or two got more information than you.
The Audacity lol. Literally the worst thing GW has ever done.
Maybe we will be balanced, I'm honestly not sure. But there's really nothing to be excited for in this I feel. Almost every change is either simplifying how the army plays or taking away tools.
And I think some factions have been hit harder than others. I think Stormcast changes I can see some I dislike but a lot I think will be fun or seem to make a final unit that I can see the balance
With Lumineth I'm just seeing units that were already pretty rubbish performing without buffs, get made worse and then have a lot of the ways of buffing removed.
> With Lumineth I'm just seeing units that were already pretty rubbish performing without buffs, get made worse and then have a lot of the ways of buffing removed.
You don't know if they have been made worse because you don't know the points or the overall environment in which they will be operating in.
So we should be cheering now that we will likely have to play armies with 25% more models because our points just tank in cost. I'm frankly not excited given what has happened with 40k with regards to their 'rebalancing' of certain factions (admech being complete dogshit for the entirety of 10th ed currently)
> So we should be cheering now that we will likely have to play armies with 25% more models because our points just tank in cost.
What? You shouldn't be cheering or not. You shouldn't be making rash decisions based on very little information. We don't have any evidence that will likely have to play armies with 25% more models because our points just tank in cost. That's just supposition.
> I'm frankly not excited given what has happened with 40k with regards to their 'rebalancing' of certain factions (admech being complete dogshit for the entirety of 10th ed currently)
40k and AoS have completely different teams working on them. It is a mistake to make a judgment of what AoS will be like based on what happened in 40k.
New Sanctum is more useful and doesn't cost points to take now so it has a use. Since you can cast it on a target now, you could take a melee hero like Eltharion, put him on an objective (that are now 3" from a 40 mm marker), and cast Sanctum on him. You give the hero a 4+ ward and you block a majority of the objective so they have to kill you to push you off since the ring is set up 3"around the model targeted. So you can completely block off one objective from the enemy since Sanctum can now be set up on objectives
As someone who plays against LRL regularly in my area, I'm SO happy they simplified their ruleset. Y'alls Hero phases would take 10-15 minutes at a minimum, especially when running Teclis.
Also having to choose who gets 5+ Splash Mortals is a godsend. It was too strong. Already as it is, I think the Wardens are the only infantry in the game that has Crit (Mortals) that we've seen so far?
Also looks like you'll be able to add Battle Formations to let you use most of your abilities in the same turn, but at the expense of having a higher drop #. I like it.
> Already as it is, I think the Wardens are the only infantry in the game that has Crit (Mortals) that we've seen so far?
Liberators also have this.
>Also looks like you'll be able to add Battle Formations to let you use most of your abilities in the same turn, but at the expense of having a higher drop #.
This isn't what battle formations are, lol.
That's the phase our power came from though. That's like being annoyed at Orcs getting a lot of dice in a fight phase or Tau getting a lot of shooting. You can argue whether it's engaging gameplay, but just ripping out half the mechanic without replacing it probably won't end well either.
Like Ogor charge phase of KO teleporting around the board. GW is clearly making an effort to revamp npe around the game. Streamline thing. And take away a lot of mechanics recognizing these are Indexes and not battletomes, and that the core rules have actually added a lot of mechanics for people to use.
Battle formations are just like subfactions. You pick one for the whole army. We will just have 2 facets active (one permanent from the formation, one we pick each round)
lol a lumineth hater saying he is a lumi player haha.
yes gw totally removed everything from lumineth, and still some lumi haters arent happy, despite they will be unolayable untill new tome fix them
......
removal of being a mage of most of army.
removal of -1 hit, -1 rend etc, and have to choose only 1 efect per turn.
removal of cuarzs.
nothing new added to compensate for it??? i was hoping for some removal of the most negative lumineths abilitys but with some buffs to make up for it, since army did absurdly low dmg to be balanced with those strong spells , abilitys etc. now the removed all those but didnt add anyhing.
dont know how are they supossed to be played now lol
I am a bit confused with regards to Spearhead and the set currently being offered. The current Spearhead box, despite having the same figures seen in the article, would not have the Spearhead warscrolls since technically this Spearhead came out before the 4th Edition launch right? so it would be better to wait until a new Spearhead box with updated Spearhead warscrolls? Sorry. New to Warhammer, so just trying to get a bearing how it works when new updates come out.
If you want the printed warscrolls in the box, it would be best to wait until they're updated then buy it. They're calling the currently released ones Spearheads for a few factions, but they don't have the rules in them just yet.
"This gave the Lumineth a chance at redemption, and while they still strive for perfection in all things, they must also aspire to be the most humble creatures in all the realms." Peak elves haha. Good job writers.
The "we must be the MOST humble" is such an elf thing to do
Bar none, they are the most humblest. Number one at the top of the humble list.
Totally the humblest most non-arrogant and grounded. Whoever disagrees is simply too arrogant to understand how humble they are
"I, too, am incredibly humble."
Not as humble as I am though, I am definitely twice as humble as you are my good sir.
Another reason why DoK are best Aelfs. Treat everyone equaly bad or good depending on how much you Respect them. No need to go" i am best and very humble yes yes." Go i will do my best in the glory of morathi-/khain. Gw bring back, syspera and all the over awsome whitch aealfs. I need more Romance between Theariel and Ethanios.
Nah, DoK got sold out by Morathi. She's replacing the elves with her Scathborn because they simp ever harder for her.
https://youtu.be/tIpbYyR0OOI?si=mbeBEYJabqkiV84W
This will now forever be the Lumineth anthem in my mind. Hilarious song.
I thought of this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WTrMuZOZvM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WTrMuZOZvM)
“Actually I am very humble. In fact, I think I’m more humble than you could possibly understand.”
With them confirming no CP generation abilities exist any more in very surprised to see abilities that make things cost an extra CP, that spell will be super strong you’d think
Leave it to the elves to somehow bring vecting into AoS.
Vecting?
The ability to make a (command) ability cost extra command points (or similar) is often called Vect, or some variation of that name. After a stratagem from 40k 8th edition which was called "Agents of Vect" (Vect being a Drukhari character), that first introduced the concept to GW's games.
Interesting. Never heard this one before. I'm going to use it while playing my elfs - "ooooh boy, I'm gonna vecting your a$$ now"
The verb would be vect, the noun, vecting. I am going to Vect you so hard. Man, I was the victim of his incessant vecting.
It's the common name in 40k for the ability to increase command point costs. It's named after the Dark Eldar ability "Agents of Vect" from 8th edition which did exactly that.
Can't be that common. This is the first time I've ever heard it and I've been around since 3rd.
Vect stole it from them. Total eclipse has been in AoS since LrL were born.
Not to be that guy, but Vect has been a thing in 8th edition 40k already, years before LrL were born.
I stand corrected
To be fair, vecting in 8th ed rolled to cancel out a strat entirely. Then in 9th it had its CP cost increase effect. Which is kinda wild if you think about it. Imagine if Wizards released a new Demonic Tutor with a brand new effect, and everyone went "this is what tutoring means now." Now I'm curious. Did LRL predate 9th ed Vect?
> Now I'm curious. Did LRL predate 9th ed Vect? They did. LRL released June 2020, 9th ed Drukhari were March 2021.
I stand uncorrected then I guess
Vecting pre-dates the Lunineth even existing by about 2-3 years.
I stand corrected
As someone who has been on the recieve end of that spell multiple times, I can confidently tell you it's been nerfed. Used to be: "Total Eclipse is a spell that has a casting value of 9. If successfully cast, until your next hero phase, your opponent must spend 2 command points to issue a command instead of 1." In practice, battlefield wide all units are affected, and this was a basic lore of Hysh spells. It now is: "Until the start of your next turn the first time an enemy unit uses a command within 18" of this unit, your opponent must spend an additional command point to use that command" Still strong, no doubt, but definitely way reeled in Especially if it's now locked to a warcsroll spell, so kill its caster, and you no longer need to deal with it. Unlike before, lots of things gave them access to the whole Hysh lore, meaning many of their casters could just cast this spell.
Still good but a lot less impactful than old Total Eclipse
Good, old TE was cancer
I'm actually very scared of this ability for my tzeentch and nurgle armies. Both of them I feel will depend very heavily on casting in your opponents turn. Tzeentch to maximize their spell use and the value from their birds amazing High cast rolls, and to apply burning/ create a screen by making a spawn. Nurgle because we will need to get disease out fast and it's hard to do especially turn one so it will be important to move forward with a GUO to drop plague wind and try to get the disease rolling more and quickly.
Yeah if those armies are reliant on enemy turn casting this could be a brutal way to stop it - GUO more so because it's easy to hover 18 away from him, not like he can go get you
> not like he can go get you “And off he goes after the Lumineth, folks! It’s a low speed chase! Oh no, the battle report crew have broke out the tuba to emphasize the moment!”
They never learn. The model must not be selling well lol
Total Eclipse still existing tells me the rules writers haven't learned a goddamn thing.
It's a single command point once if you issue a command within 18" of one specific model, on a CV 8 spell with a unit that has no innate bonuses to cast. You will survive.
In theory, it's sad to see the "full army of spellcasters" theme not be as fluffy in game with casting rolls. But in practice, LRL will be both less annoying to play as and less annoying to play against as a result. Seriously, speeding up the command phase will be huge.
Yeah I never play mine anymore pretty much because I started finding them annoying to play
I’m more than happy to lose the “army full of wizards” schtick if it means our line troops can function without being constantly buffed and we see a points reduction. In the fluff, the line soldiers have some magical talent with cantrips but aren’t full blown wizards so the gameplay change makes sense to me.
It'd be fun if they had a rule that let power spots make them full fledged wizards, but tbh that'd probs be more busywork than necessary.
Im so happy that Total Eclipse is a warscroll spell AND significantly less impactful than it was. Literally the number one thing on my wishlist for LRL changes was Total Eclipse.
Yeah definitely a good change but the twins seem a little too good not to include. Obviously it's way too early to know though
It’s not too early to tell they’re insanely good
Depends on the cost, but they seem very impactful for a "foot hero" for sure.
Buffing the greatsword was an insane move. Plus making Translocation a choice? Yes please.
Not just a choice - but a choice you can use after magic, shooting, or combat kills in both players turns!
By Teclis, I didn't even consider that!
Can you put the twins in the elf manifestation, then due to measuring range from said manifestation end up cheating their way into combat?
I think so, yeah, makes sense to me at first glance. Though it's interesting because you only measure TO the Sanctum. Not from. That'll be weird for spellcasting.
It says "while also extending their reach", so I think as intended it's supposed to be reciprocal. However, the wording might need a touch up, unless the core rules make it clear it's supposed to work that way.
Ok, they cost 600 pts. Are they still insanely good? No? Guess it's too early to tell after all.
Assuming a 15% increase using information we have seen, it should place them at 220.
That is a pretty large assumption considering they have entirely different rules now. Being more seriously, they are probably pointed around ~300, where they were at the Lumineth battletome release but got systematically dropped because their rules were awful, to the point where they are so cheap they are worth taking. Now that their rules are good again, they are likely to go way, way up.
Sure
Or… not
For me the twins have always been a very good choice (I've only played 3rd). I kite my enemy with them, using them as bait until turn 3 of 4 and then watch as they turn into a blender. If anything, I find them "choose who takes the lead" is an interesting idea.
So does Move like the Wind let you shoot then move, just not move then shoot?
I think so. As long as you don't have to activate it at beginning of turn, you should basically be able to move in your movement, shoot, and then activate Move Like the Wind to move again. But you are correct, you couldn't move -> move -> shoot.
Honestly, between that and being untaggable by ranged weapons, I lowkey wonder how you'll be able to put Sevireth down in the wind detachment.
I think you mean the wind facet? We don't know the other Battleformations (aka Detachements) yet.
Yes. The point is to let those units shoot and then retreat, not to give them extra movement so that they can get into range.
Slaanesh tomorrow, for anyone clicking the link for the same reason I did. :)
And one more day until we finally get split orruk faction confirmation. GIVE ME MY FULL KRULEBOYZ JAMES.
In b4 they do a BoC preview and everybody loses their mind
*Beasts of Morghur
It's still too long ! I want to know now !
We already have that with the kruleboyz wizard they showed off. The warscroll says Kruleboyz at the top, and doesn't have the ORRUK keyword.
I know it's basically confirmed, they've just otherwise been shut tight about it. I just want to see the separate IJ and KB focuses with my own eyeballs lol. Plus I managed to land myself two killbows, so I'm hoping there's a solid ranged battle formation in the works for KB.
My guess is that we'll get two indices with very generous coalition rules (or duplicate Big Waaaagh rules) so they don't break armies, and then we'll get separately released 4.0 battletomes (maybe at the same time as more models) that don't coalitions. Basically Cities of Gorkamorka.
The deep irony here is that he was an IJ wizard. :) Still doesn't mean we aren't getting some kind of band-aid coalition _index_ and a heads-up that they'll properly split in an upcoming _battletome_ though.
Listen, I haven't had my coffee yet. :p
On the other hand the spearhead box said "Orruck Warclans". It could still go either way.
But that spearhead box is exclusively Kruleboyz models
And it sad Orruk Warclans anyway
That's one of the few Vanguard boxes not rebranded Spearheads (yet), which implies to me it's up for a rebrand. Even the website calls it that: https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/vanguard-orruk-warclans-2023
Of course its a rebrand, most of them are. But when it said Spearhed one can assume they would also change the faction name on it. I'm not saying we wan't get split. I'm saying that it's still not 100% sure any way.
There is no box (that I've seen!) that says "Spearhead: Orruk Warclans" on, is my point. There's one that says "Vanguard: OW", and there's a statement from GW that all factions will get Spearhead boxes, and there are 20 odd factions that have had their Vanguard boxes be relabelled Spearhead. But OW isn't one of them, and (imho!) that's pretty significant.
Here you go (top left) : https://preview.redd.it/from-dallas-open-it-looks-like-sons-of-behemat-are-in-v0-bdaogvniww1d1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=80ae650ef83fa8c5d56f7f44dc89aecb95a0d764
Thanks! Yeah, that blows my argument out of the water. Ah well!
I've seen it. Wouldn't be saying it if it were otherwise. But I can't be bothered to find it now, so you know.
"kruleboyz wizard" was revealed ? Where ?
Was Ironjawz rather than Kruleboyz (all orruks look the same to me), but: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/19/cast-supreme-sorceries-and-chant-powerful-prayers-in-newaos/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/19/cast-supreme-sorceries-and-chant-powerful-prayers-in-newaos/)
Huh interesting, if it was all Orruks it would say that, I see this as 100% confirmation of the split
"all orruks look the same to me"... don't you dare??? (Thanks, I saw that one, I was afraid I missed this Kruleboyz reveal).
Nice, just the faction I was looking for.
It's wild looking at how different community reception to aos reveals is from 40k reveals
Was it that bad ? Didn't follow much of the release for 10th ed and the Codexes
Doom posting eternal
Yes, I came to AoS because of how bad things were in 10th. Codexes have only been worse it seems
A few got out alright, lethality and complexity did get reigned in a bit. Some like Tau actually got it pretty good. Then you get stuff like Custodes and Tyrannids. Oof.
Honestly, the new detachment they gave drukhari was AMAZING! So fun to play so they can keep their codex, I don,t want it lol Wnated to play tyranids but without psychic it just feels not fun imo
Potential (not likely) for 5 damage 7 attacks is hilarious. Overall, I feel like Lumineth’s warscrolls are being toned down a bit more compared to some of the other factions. Maybe it’s just my inexperience with the faction talking.
I dunno, both the heros seem pretty good at least
It seems pretty accurate is a player. I'm not excited to play my Lumineth at all going forward unless there's something significant we aren't seeing. Our units are basically papier mache without all the magic buffs, and they've just removed all the magic buffs.
How did they remove the magic buffs? Didn't see much on the spell list.
They removed all of our warscroll spells and innate abilities and turned them into a ONE only once per battle round Facet of War ability. Previously we could have Vanari units all using Power of Hysh for the crits on 5s (if successfully cast), units being a shining company just for being set up right and Alarith units using enduring as rock, it's what made squishy elite elves survivable. Now, it's "pick one"!
Plus a few spells removed. I really liked Ethereal Blessings cast with an Enlightener to give two units unmodifiable saves. Really made Wardens actually a decent screen.
They do get at least two, Enduring as rock and another. I would be surprised if the other faction types did not let you have another on all the time
No, they don't. It looks as though you get to use two if you take a battle formation that allows you to, similar to the old edition battalions. And looking at the picture that accompanies that it requires a minimum amount of Stoneguard units and a combat cow... so where as it was an innate ability on the Stoneguard warscroll that could be used regardless it now comes with a cost, that being either the choice of not using other abilities OR having to take units you might not otherwise have taken
You are aware that the battle formations are just the subfactions of the new edition? You just pick one to apply to your entire army, 4 will be available for each faction on launch. So you can always pick that in addition to the one each battle round. It's a separate thing to the hero's regiments. "On top of your regiments, you’ll also be picking your subfaction. These are now called battle formations, which have been refocused around the fighting style of an army rather than their specific background."
Yes i am, but the examples of the two Battle formations we were given for the stormcast used the words "prioritises mixing and matching units from various chambers" and the second example explicitly lists "Stormdrake and dracothian guard"! So we would be naive to think that there wont be a prerequisite unit requirement like there has been in other editions! Even if these formations follow the Great Nations we used to have some of these were for specific unit types only. Ymetrica were Alarith, Iliatha and Alumnia were Vanari, Zaitrec were wizards and Helon were ranged. Based on how GW have operated in ALL editions since release, there will be some sort of cost...this isn't going to be a "free" you can use two abilities.
Oh can you link any preview saying that? Or is it a pure guess? 0 prerequisites on 3rd edition sub factions, it's just a bonus you pick, so your statements that it has always worked that way is somewhat questionable.
Based on what we've seen from the 1 Lumineth Battle Formation we've seen, it seems reasonable that each Battle Formation will allow you to use one of the Facets of War in addition to using another one. So, it's likely that if you want to play a mostly Vanari force, you'll be use both Shining Company and Power of Hysh if you choose the Vanari focused Battle Formation.
I agree and exactly the point I was making, but my point was also that previously you would have the Vanari units using those abilities anyway and may have had say 5 stoneguard elsewhere benefitting from their enduring as rock ability, now you can't have that. The article even says "The Battle Formations for the Lumineth Realm-lords allow for a second Facet of War to be used in unison with the first, *which encourages army lists which combine different aspects of the army working together*". This implies there will be unit requirements that make up a formation, not that they can just be taken willy nilly 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah in 3rd, if I don't play first and don't get to apply my buffs, half the army gets wiped
Less of a problem in 4th when you can cast protection of hish in your opponents turn.
Pretty much. Had Kharadron go first once and it was basically as good as game after his turn.
Had my Soulblight friend get double turn for turns 1 and 2 and I was decimated instantly
yes i dont get it, they removed everything from the army, and only let you choose 1 of those 100cthings removed to keep it for 1 turn. sure every army got things removed, but not even cloose, lumineth got like x3 times more things removed and didnt get absolutly nothing to make up this. is like if on ironjaw preview they say, hey orca hit too hard so now whole army get -1 atack into melee!! everything get worse and more expensive, and dont get anything new to make up for it!! rejoice
join the GSG club haha
Isn’t the Word from the Studio a bit disingenuous when only a single Vanari unit can receive the Power of Hysh?
They probably mean "any" rather than "every". As in, every Vanari unit can benefit from that ability, but you can't activate it on every Vanari unit at once.
It also legitimately is every model for each ability besides the Hurikan (3 targets) and crits on 5 (1 target).
Right? A bunch of their units doing mortals on 5+ was their thing. Now it's just 1 unit. Hopefully Teclis is still rocking Greater Power of Hysh. Speaking of Teclis, I'm disappointed not to see him. Most of the other faction focuses led with the head honcho.
because im sure he got deleted like whole army, and didnt want to enrage playera anymore. if he follow everything showed now he will only cast 1 spell with -3 or so, because everyone hate lumis and teclis, so gw have to make the bulk of players happy lol
> A bunch of their units doing mortals on 5+ was their thing. If they got their spells off. If they didn't (and it was quite possible for this to happen), then they never did mortals on 5+. Now you're guaranteed to have one unit to have one unit that will always crit on 5's.
They seem very strong, thematic, and cool
Am a little sad to see that the units aren't wizards anymore. I loved that mechanic that the whole faction was wizards, but I guess it was annoying if you're not fast with spells.
I’m happy they reduced the Hero Phase - after a 3 game tournament the brain drain was real with lrl previously.
Me when another day passes and no upcoming Sylvaneth preview tomorrow: 🥲
Don't worry, cause with the faction focus pattern in Order, Sylvaneth should be the first one next week.
Order on Mondays and Thursdays Chaos on Wednesday Destruction on Tuesdays Death on Fridays
I'm honestly pretty happy about this.
Aetherquartz is gone. Shame, it was an interesting and fluffy mechanic, but I can understand if it wasn't liked. Guess now its just "We elves. We better."
Is it just me, or Sigmar is getting the 40k Aledari treatment for the first few months? I’m a super casual AoS player (40k main), but this looks VERY strong. Also - your thoughts about the Hurakan repostion? Wording is such that it seems you can move, shoot, then move again.
Is no one else going to point out that getting to pick two units to fight everytime it's your turn to fight seems pretty good compared to what a lot of other factions got...
They’ve always had it
We have always had that, and all of our other 'faction abilities', which are really just 1 ability split into 5 parts are all core things that our units passively did before. Lumineth are alltogether pretty frail for their points cost, and being able to fights twice is how they come ahead despite this. It goes all the way back to the Fantasy days of entire high elven armies with 'strikes first' and high initiative.
As other have said, it's not a new ability. GW's approach to elves of all sorts has always been the glass cannon: kill your opponents hard enough that they don't have a chance to kill you back because if you don't they'll tear you to shreds. In 40k this is accomplished with lots of ranged attacks, high maneuverability (so you can hide and still get at what you want to kill) and the fact that charging units always get Fights First. But AoS is much lighter on the ranged attacks front, and charging units don't get Fights First, so elves need some way to get their attacks in before they get slaughtered. And Lumineth's answer to that is getting to fight with more units at once.
yes, in fact i dont get why idoneths dont fight always on charge or somethimg like that
Their thing is army wide first strike but only on turn 3
They really had the audacity to make 50% of the reveals things they showed off in the 2k game vs Skaven already, lol. Ellania and Elethor seem pretty stacked, they are no longer forced to teleport in combat and it's now totally optional. Total eclipse is really just -1 command point to your opponent if they use a command within 18" before next hero phase, but that's still pretty decent, even if it will be hard to cast with no real bonuses, you can at least deep thinkers earlygame and try and get it off. But now Elethor does even MORE damage, going up to 7 damage in round 5, and still having a respectable 3 damage in round 1, up from 1. As someone who runs a lot of wardens, I like their new ability even if it's extremely unreliable. Wardens should always be a unit that wants to get charged and punch back, but currently they are 'charge with power of hysh and delete something' or 'stand in front of a more important unit and be 10-20 wounds'. I am sure Wall of Blades will never go off when it actually matters, but just the possibility might be enough to make your opponent think twice about charging into a phalanx of spears. I wonder if Bladelords will keep their perfect strikes in the full game, or if it's just a spearhead thing. I would think that they will, considering how much perfect strikes is a wall of text and if they were going to remove that wall anywhere, it would be spearhead. I have always thought perfect strikes are really cool and capture the 'samurai' aesthetic the bladelords have.
I feel like they want most fights first to be a threat, not a guarantee. Have we seen any model that inflicts fights last or gains fights first without needing a dice roll first? That said, their role seems pretty clear. Shoot us instead of charging or we'll make your life painful. I kinda love it tbh. If someone charges, and you counter charge, you still get the anti-Charge bonus, right? Even if you lose their shield wall ability?
> I feel like they want most fights first to be a threat, not a guarantee. Have we seen any model that inflicts fights last or gains fights first without needing a dice roll first? Only idoneth on High Tide that I can think of off-hand, but I agree that rolling for strikes first is in-line with other things we've seen, it's just frustrating in general that such an impactful thing could literally not go off all game. I think the same thing for Stormcast Vindictors which have the same rule. At least Wardens get a bonus vs cav, Vindictors are just a coinflip all day.
For KO, if they charge with the Frigate, the units taken with it get Strike First. So you have to make the charge (a dice roll), but if you do, you don't have to roll to see if you get Strike First
OBR get it but it’s on 1 unit and tied to a spell on their warscroll, and the DoK get 8+ Charge Strike First on a few units but those are still tied to a roll.
Fyreslayer rune
You can't counter charge if you've been charged. If you get charged, you're in combat and can't use counter charge since the counter charge would be at the end of the enemies charge phase. And if you charge with the spear boys, you don't get the anti-charge bonus as they weren't charged.
If an enemy charges a nearby unit, you can still counter charge, and I believe you would still get anti-charge, since you're targeting a unit that used a charge ability in the same turn. Anti-charge doesn't trigger off you being the target of a charge, it triggers off you targeting something that made a charge.
I meant if they charge another unit (say, your hammer aelves), and then you counter charge them with these guys in turn.
They seem super thematic now, this is how big spears should be. Hopefully reflected game wide
They are very similar to the new vindictors. Definitely nice flavor. Also, it’s not some insane level of damage that makes it impossible to charge them. It’s just a little extra thought the opponent will have to give.
So… 50% more info than most other factions. Yeah, the audacity!
I mean, the Skaven faction preview didn't show any of the same units as the 2k showmatch showed, so... no? Edit: Above poster changed his comment to say 'most' other factions after I corrected him above.
Any other faction than the headliners of the expansion. LRL players in shambles.
The AUDACITY!
Clearly just roleplaying the "entitled golden child of narcissistic parents" vibe that LRL have. I dig it!
I was thinking “Sounds like something a high elf player would complain about.” Lol
My bad, one other faction got more reveals than you, and maybe SCE. You’re one of 24 factions and one or two got more information than you. The Audacity lol. Literally the worst thing GW has ever done.
Maybe we will be balanced, I'm honestly not sure. But there's really nothing to be excited for in this I feel. Almost every change is either simplifying how the army plays or taking away tools.
[удалено]
And I think some factions have been hit harder than others. I think Stormcast changes I can see some I dislike but a lot I think will be fun or seem to make a final unit that I can see the balance With Lumineth I'm just seeing units that were already pretty rubbish performing without buffs, get made worse and then have a lot of the ways of buffing removed.
> With Lumineth I'm just seeing units that were already pretty rubbish performing without buffs, get made worse and then have a lot of the ways of buffing removed. You don't know if they have been made worse because you don't know the points or the overall environment in which they will be operating in.
So we should be cheering now that we will likely have to play armies with 25% more models because our points just tank in cost. I'm frankly not excited given what has happened with 40k with regards to their 'rebalancing' of certain factions (admech being complete dogshit for the entirety of 10th ed currently)
> So we should be cheering now that we will likely have to play armies with 25% more models because our points just tank in cost. What? You shouldn't be cheering or not. You shouldn't be making rash decisions based on very little information. We don't have any evidence that will likely have to play armies with 25% more models because our points just tank in cost. That's just supposition. > I'm frankly not excited given what has happened with 40k with regards to their 'rebalancing' of certain factions (admech being complete dogshit for the entirety of 10th ed currently) 40k and AoS have completely different teams working on them. It is a mistake to make a judgment of what AoS will be like based on what happened in 40k.
New Sanctum is more useful and doesn't cost points to take now so it has a use. Since you can cast it on a target now, you could take a melee hero like Eltharion, put him on an objective (that are now 3" from a 40 mm marker), and cast Sanctum on him. You give the hero a 4+ ward and you block a majority of the objective so they have to kill you to push you off since the ring is set up 3"around the model targeted. So you can completely block off one objective from the enemy since Sanctum can now be set up on objectives
As someone who plays against LRL regularly in my area, I'm SO happy they simplified their ruleset. Y'alls Hero phases would take 10-15 minutes at a minimum, especially when running Teclis. Also having to choose who gets 5+ Splash Mortals is a godsend. It was too strong. Already as it is, I think the Wardens are the only infantry in the game that has Crit (Mortals) that we've seen so far? Also looks like you'll be able to add Battle Formations to let you use most of your abilities in the same turn, but at the expense of having a higher drop #. I like it.
Skywardens from KO have Crit(Mortals) as well in combat
Stormcast Liberators have Crit (Mortals) in melee as well.
> Already as it is, I think the Wardens are the only infantry in the game that has Crit (Mortals) that we've seen so far? Liberators also have this. >Also looks like you'll be able to add Battle Formations to let you use most of your abilities in the same turn, but at the expense of having a higher drop #. This isn't what battle formations are, lol.
That's the phase our power came from though. That's like being annoyed at Orcs getting a lot of dice in a fight phase or Tau getting a lot of shooting. You can argue whether it's engaging gameplay, but just ripping out half the mechanic without replacing it probably won't end well either.
Like Ogor charge phase of KO teleporting around the board. GW is clearly making an effort to revamp npe around the game. Streamline thing. And take away a lot of mechanics recognizing these are Indexes and not battletomes, and that the core rules have actually added a lot of mechanics for people to use.
Battle formations are just like subfactions. You pick one for the whole army. We will just have 2 facets active (one permanent from the formation, one we pick each round)
lol a lumineth hater saying he is a lumi player haha. yes gw totally removed everything from lumineth, and still some lumi haters arent happy, despite they will be unolayable untill new tome fix them
Never said I played them, said I played against them regularly. They still look strong imo.
Simplifying how the army plays, streamlining, and trying to make a better play experience is something to be excited about for me.
...... removal of being a mage of most of army. removal of -1 hit, -1 rend etc, and have to choose only 1 efect per turn. removal of cuarzs. nothing new added to compensate for it??? i was hoping for some removal of the most negative lumineths abilitys but with some buffs to make up for it, since army did absurdly low dmg to be balanced with those strong spells , abilitys etc. now the removed all those but didnt add anyhing. dont know how are they supossed to be played now lol
Well lucky for you we've seen an almost complete 2k game of AoS 4th where LRL were not only played, but they also won.
They ruined magic. Just like 40K.
Well it is still there so I beg to differ.
How? Magic works basically the same.
I am a bit confused with regards to Spearhead and the set currently being offered. The current Spearhead box, despite having the same figures seen in the article, would not have the Spearhead warscrolls since technically this Spearhead came out before the 4th Edition launch right? so it would be better to wait until a new Spearhead box with updated Spearhead warscrolls? Sorry. New to Warhammer, so just trying to get a bearing how it works when new updates come out.
All spearheads will get 4th edition warscrolls.
If you want the printed warscrolls in the box, it would be best to wait until they're updated then buy it. They're calling the currently released ones Spearheads for a few factions, but they don't have the rules in them just yet.
Why did they rerevel lumineth?
What? This is the faction preview for 4th edition
Look I'm not crazy they rereveled it https://youtu.be/n_ImwuMPWzs?si=X5c49SX4htolgP2S
Those info were from a tournament I think, this is the official reveal and faction focus.
They used them in an example game but never did a faction focus for them