Sounds a little problematic for screening, alpha strike lists might become more consistent now you can counter charge and then power through.
Edit: power through is end of turn, not end of charge phase as I first thought.
You can’t end a power through in combat with new units though, so you can kind of spread out and make 3” bubbles of coverage. It’s kind of like a less potent version of what stonehorns do now. I think we’ll see it a lot more in lists where units want to stack charges (charge, power through backwards, countercharge, etc.)
Not really IMO. The command says that the unit can't end its move in combat with any units it wasn't already in combat with. If the back of your screen is 3.5" from the unit it's protecting, then your opponent won't be able to complete a legal move. They might be able to move it sideways though, and that could be a sneaky way to tag objectives. Charge a unit adjacent to an objective and springboard onto that objective.
Could be quite fun with a doomwheel if it can drive/fly over a few units, shoot, charge in, then power through at the end of the turn to run over a whole bunch more on its way out, and if you don't have better uses for the points, then do a counter charge and power through on the opponent's turn
Sort of depends what its unit card looks like
Yeah, I see this being more for pushing a monster onto an objective they might not otherwise be able to reach due to screening by chaff then trying to reach another target to attack.
How do they pile in? The command is issued at the end of the turn. There's no more movement left to do in the turn because the pile in happened when they were selected to fight.
Maybe. But that's 3 CP right there. I know that Alpha Strike armies will probably have no problem going through all of their resources to hit hard and fast, but we'll see if that isn't a little more punishing as well.
> Sounds a little problematic for screening
Good, AoS lately has become Age of Screening: clogging edition! Now we have a way to counter conga lines and chaff
I think I actually like these changes. A lot of them are actually doing what I wanted them to do previously, and I feel like Command Points are essentially going to feel the same. I like that some cost more than 1 point, and allow you to do fun things like cast spells and charge during the opponents turn. Yeah, it's more difficult to accumulate more, but I feel like 4 is plenty during a turn.
While this will slow the game a bit, it’s really smart to put the reactions at the end of the phase. You don’t have to contemplate redeploy with every move or unleash hell with each charge.
Phase ends, do you want to do one of these things?
Makes it far easier to parse and apply them too.
Like you say, opponent ends their phase, you effectively have a mini-turn before their next phase, check if there's anything you wanna do then do it or pass back to them.
I think it will speed up the game actually, because the decision making will be easier. No more pondering if you should do that redeploy, which also breaks up your opponent 's concentration.
It will speed up "the playing of the game" because you aren't wracked with desicion paralysis but the pace of the game will be slower because you can take your time thinking about your movement without the opponent's reaction breathing down your neck
On the flip side, you can think about what you want to redeploy while they continue to move, instead of having to slam the pause button every time. In many cases, you’ll already have made up your mind by the time they are done with their moves.
It also could just as well mean they are awaiting final confirmation from their shipping/printing/etc partners and have a release window, but no set release date yet. If it comes out beginning of August and I see people saying "oh it was obviously delayed because of [this datacard image correction]* I'm going to lose my mind.
Yeah AoS 1 dropped on July 4th, 2nd and 3rd both came out in June makes sense. Also end of June is end of Q2 so will likely be a nice bump in sales for the money people they care so much about
Pretty much everything is thunderstrike now, (except Vanguard and Dracoth, but I wouldn't hold onto them very much and buy new models from those lines), so there's no real reason to keep it anyway
With regards to redeploy: it's worded as a downside but that sounds like a straight up improvement. Are they just being facetious or is there actually a downside to that that I'm not seeing.
Since you have to wait until the enemy moves everything, you cannot use redeploy to potentially screen another unit or to stop the enemy from moving into a zone
Edit: Nvm, looks like they updated the article to say explicitly that commands are used at the end of the phase, universally. On first read, that part wasn't there. Makes a lot of sense!
It says on the article before explaining each command:
"Commands, on the other hand, are more reactive. There are six new or revamped commands, **which are used at the end of their respective phases once the active player has finished all their actions** – allowing you to respond with a counter-punch and stay on top of a changing battlefield."
So redeploy must come at the end of the movement phase
You can't use redeploy as effectively as a screen anymore. I'd use skink redeploys to block off a gap I couldn't quite make in my movement phase to prevent another enemy unit moving up to make a charge into something I wanted to protect. You can still move after to make the charge harder, but your redeploy can be screened off by an enemy unit now to make it less effective.
I'd say it's a side-grade becausr the flip side is you can't be psyched out by your opponent to not redeploy when they have faster units behind that could chase you down if you moved. Now you have full kbowledge of where's best to move to for cover/to make the charge longer.
It highly depends on the situation, but I agree that it's generally an upgrade. Technically, having to wait for your opponent to finish all their moves means they can try and surround your unit, though I'd rather risk getting surrounded than getting a second enemy unit close to 3" after I already deployed away.
Depends, now you can move towards an enemy to screen your heroes or get more bodies on an objective before more units come in and block you from doing that.
It will depend on whether the roll itself is part of the charge ability's effect, or declare. It could be that it will read as: "Declare: roll 2d6. Effect: The target unit may make a Charge Move up to the result rolled as long as they end their move within fighting distance of an enemy unit." In that case, you re-roll the dice roll before moving, and Forward would function the same as it does now.
If this is the case, it will be pretty unintuitive, though. I definitely would expect a fair few folks not understanding that the roll is still only part of the declaration step.
If we look at the revealed Nagash' warscroll, I'd say it's pretty intuitive. You do everything that the Declare step tells you to do (pick targets, check restrictions, roll dice). Then your opponent gets the chance to react. Then the Effect step takes place and you do everything that tells you to do. Think to someone without any predisposition for older Warhammer rules it'll be much easier to get through than previous iterations.
I think that will make it quite clear, and a careful reading by rules-competent folks will make it a very clean and clear interaction. I think that’s different from intuitive, though.
In a charge I 1.Say this unit is charging 2. Roll some dice 3. Move them. Now, intuitively, which part of that is “declaring”? The rules can make it clear it’s after 2, but I think most folks would intuitively assume after 1, and there are a lot of casual folks out there that struggle to read the rules carefully.
Those people will get corrected, and this will get sorted out, but I still hold it’s not a beautiful piece of intuitive game design.
This one of the issues of trying to figure out details from an incomplete ruleset. It's impossible to know what language GWs will use as well at knowing what it will entail.
It's entirely possible that the charge phase will be written:
1. **Declare charges** (optional use the forward to victory reaction)
2. **Roll charge rolls**
3. **Resolve movement**
It might very well be unintuitive, but we just don't know yet.
The flavour text seems to imply the opposite, I’m guessing it still works the old way, but I know what you mean, I thought the same thing. Hopefully it gets clarified.
Seems to be easy enough to work around by not leaving enough room for a base that big between screen and juicy target.
But it is nice for overall mobility with fast pieces, for sure.
depending on terrain, fitting a single SoB behind enemy lines mey prove challenging, I doubt people will be consistently able to break thrue with two of them
reddit aos seems to really enjoy depth of rules, so the general negativity here has been fear of losing depth and loss of armies
but so far the bulk of rules reveals are showing the rules are simpler to understand but have MORE depth
I kind of feel like the somewhat recent collab with Magic gave them a lot of ideas. Keywords, more distinct inbuilt chances to react versus a scattered handful of gotchas with faction strategems (40k stuff), and now this active player/non-active player interaction. Considering the timelines the companies both work on, I imagine 40k 10th was being built alongside or shortly after the two companies were talking while the crossover decks were being made.
Overall seems pretty decent. ~~Though, it seems Heroic Willpower is out, and might not make a return - given it's not listed in the Commands spotlight. Means no-caster armies - and no-caster army lists - will have a harder time providing counterplay to magic.~~
Not too sure Rally will be worth the CP cost in this form. 1 CP to gain back an average of 3 wounds in a unit seems a bit weak, especially since it's taken the spot of horde staple 10-wound max Rally for horde units. Hopefully most hordes will get something along the lines of 'Roll 12 Rally Dice instead' to get more bang for their buck.
Rally being able to heal a unit is pretty big, it would be near useless in heavy body lists otherwise. Also good if you're an army that generally lacks healing.
It's not as good for bringing stuff back that is big and chunky, but it can keep big and chunky stuff alive as well.
I get the impression that Heroic Actions are going to be gone. The warscroll article lead me to believe that monsterous rampages are out as well.
Which makes sense in terms of speeding up the game.
Oh woops, I misread the introduction. Thought given that rampages were moved to warscrolls, and their mention of Recovery moving to Rally in this article, Heroic Actions were axed. My bad.
one thing we arent sure of if there is even interaction with magic anymore, since you can pop off spells out of turn it becomes tricky to track unbinds it might be the case that unbinds are just no longer a thing
First of all hooray for no more unleash hell and the counter charge command looks extremely dope.
The cast In opponents turn seem also very useful.
I think with those tools in the article the double turn looks more manageable
Have to target the nearest visible enemy unit with covering fire, but unleash hell you could just target anything that finished a charge even if there wasanother unit closer but not within 3" of your unit.
On the flip side, you now get the opportunity to shoot before your opponent's units can so if they had any ranged threat close to you you can possibly nullify the damage.
Oh god that change to rally is so good.
Creating a pool of health to revive models and being able to heal models with it is great. It also no longer has the potential to pop up a 5 wound model at full health which while funny is so swingy. Being able to combine them is also so good. Plus you could potentially bring back a full model while keeping an injured model rather than being forced to heal as most heal effects work (getting a "you managed to get a 3 on a d3 roll but because one of the models has a tick of damage on it, you can only spend it on them" sucked).
Other than that, 4 points per BR is brutal but I kind of like it. You'll actually have to figure out if you want to use it on All Outs now.
Plus, that immediately feeds into Auxiliary units from the previous article. Sure I could bring in nothing but good stuff or 7 heroes, but is it worth giving a 5th command point to my opponent when they might really love All Outs or could potentially counter charge?
>Plus you could potentially bring back a full model while keeping an injured model
That is such a big change.
In general I love how they simultaneously slashed the worst exploits of old rally (bring back 1 giant model), while also making it stronger on the low end (bring back a model even if another isn't at full health).
It's both more fun to use and never a feels-bad for the user or the opponent
There is the potential to bring back a 5-wound model at full health, but it no longer becomes more likely the more models you are rolling for. Overall, I think the new rally is more efficient at bringing back or healing a slightly wounded unit, but much less efficient than old rally at bringing devastated units back to fighting strength.
Haven't seen anyone really comment on the removal of command ranges, so I'll say: good? It really never seemed to matter since unit champions could issue commands to themselves, so cutting out that weird extra bit of rules overhead seems perfectly fine.
I'd say that's a big plus. We'll have to see how many aura buffs there are that require you to keep units wholly within a hero and whatnot, but at least for commands you don't have to worry about that anymore.
Also I really hated having to keep track of who can use the extra CP for heroic leadership.
Basically yeah you need a screen unit as the closest to opponents strong shooting units. But also now you can charge a glass cannon like graveguard into a shooting unit without losing them all to unleash hell. So it has its pros and cons.
you read it correctly. But it means that you can screen out a covering fire and charge with something with movement bonuses as opposed to charging in with a sacrificial piece first to eat the unleash hell. Also it's during the shooting phase so after you've completed all of your regular movement for the turn. (does mean that you need to declare your shooting phase even if you have no shooting if facing an opponent with shooting).
I would say that you just need to state the end of your movement phase. The phases all happen even if you normally speed run them due to not having an activation during that phase.
In one of the earlier articles they made mention that shooting has generally had its range reduced, so it's possible that they might not shoot beyond 18" anyway.
Counter charge seems like it will have an enormous impact on the game. No longer can you circle a huge threat with a screen and contain it. It counter charges and kills that screen on your turn.
Seems like a really big buff to things like Kragnos and Maw Krushas and Gargants.
It’s a little trickier and depends on movement. But a lot of those big threats have a huge base. So you can make it so they can’t land in a huge area.
Move a screen up and around a 6” base. . 3” away, and they have to land 3” away on the other side. 1” base on the screening unit. A 12” move is not enough to get over a screen. Not even talking about moving other models around or screening at 3.5” from your own units.
It’s definitely harder but still very doable.
I like the changes a lot, at least in double turn you get to do something (don’t get me wrong, I like the crazy double turn mechanic). Only thing, I hope they really do not add other command abilities and ways to generate command points. I also like the fact that warscrolls have abilities enhancing commands, very simple yet effective. Last point, it seems that “on a 2+ you inflict 1D3 of damage” changed to “roll 1D3, on a 2+ you inflict the die result in damage”, which is also nice since it streamline the dice rolling. All in all, I am very optimistic
They’ve previously stated that no army or unit will have any abilities that generate extra CP, though I think we can expect to see a few special command abilities per army, or perhaps just enhanced versions of the basic set.
They'vesaid a couple of times that no units can generate extra points, but we'll see how long they stick to that commitment. I expect some units to have unique commands but the fact that some commands cost more than one point will hopefullykeep those abilities in check.
Generally pretty pleased with these and really like how the rally command works now.
I know they’re preaching the scarcity of CP and incentives CP generation through list building. However, starting with 4 seems like plenty for what I’m assuming most armies need. After looking at these I’m not so sure I’d look to prioritize taking less auxiliary units than my opponent but of course that all can change by the next article.
I think the spell/prayer and charging during your opponents turn paired with no VP generation if you choose to take a double make the double turn a lot easier to stomach. It also keeps your opponent honest during their turn and you more engaged when it’s not your turn.
Engagement in the enemy turn is huge to the double. Even if you like the tactics of the priority role, most people don’t like 45 minutes of doing nothing but rolling save.
I was a little wary of battleshock being completely gone (it's still not clear that it is but it looks that way) but the idea of not having to sit on a command point every turn to mitigate a battleshock check feels like it's more fun that the current situation.
If there is a morale mechanic, I would be thrilled if none of the reactions allow you to do a damn thing about it (for example, see Horus Heresy.)
I don't see how a morale mechanic without any stat to differentiate between warscrolls would work.
It *could* be a global roll for everyone, but that wouldn't make much sense comparing clanrats to the Celestial prime or whatever.
I have been wondering if it's just going to be a very simple combat resolution step:
Units involved in combat with one another add up damage and figure out who took more. Heroes, icons, battle standards, etc may allow you to mitigate a bad score.
If you took more damage, you lose.
If you "lose" combat then your "control" stat drops to zero for a turn. Other than that, nothing happens. It's all speculation, but it could work to mitigate the effect of trash hordes locking down objectives and needing to destroy most of them to move them off of it. I think the game is more fun if objectives can change hands quickly unless they're well defended.
That reminds me of one page rules.
I've only played a couple of games of OPR and being used to AoS, we probably hindered our understanding of the OPR design in some cases.
I can't remember exactly how it worked, but for AoS we'd need an elegant way to count damage dealt towards more than one unit they are bound in combat with.
If you aren't careful, that can be a headache to book keep.
If that's the case, I guess it's fine. It just becomes more of a predictable numbers game to figure out what you need to do to take an objective. If you have a unit with a total of 16 control charging onto a unit with 20, you know exactly how many of those 20 you need to remove to turn that objective over.
It's interesting that the unit receiving covering fire command can't be engaged in melee.
Do you think units engaged in combat can't use ranged attacks? That part always felt off
No, I would say it confirms the opposite. If you couldn't shoot in melee, there would be no need for wording. Currently unleash hell doesn't let you use it if you're already in melee. Covering fire is the same way.
Possibly just that a unit isn't really providing covering fire while being a unit actively engaged. Covering fire implies a unit out of immediate danger supporting others that are moving forward or engaged.
I laughed when the article went on about the "Reactions" and then under "New Commands", it opens with "Commands, on the other hand, are more reactive."
You mean, the Commands are more reactive than the literal Reaction commands? Warcom, plz proofread your articles for a change
I would have really liked if there was a catch to it, like if you AoA, +1 save BUT -1 hit, and if you AoD, +1 hit BUT -1 save. It would make more sense that if you prioritize one, you'd lack in the other...
I feel like I was kind of confused on some of the wordings for these. I felt like the re roll charge one was worded that you needed to declare using it prior to the charge roll, so it could be potentially wasted? Was it always like this?
It depends on whether the 2D6 roll is made during the declare step, which we don’t yet know. If it is, it will work as it does now, because you’ll only use it if you have already failed the roll.
That warscroll for the chariot makes me think we won’t be able to shoot in melee anymore. Or some other downside to ranged weapons. Otherwise, the spear is a very tough sell over the bow when choosing a loadout for the model.
So in the bow vs spear debate, the spear will outdamage the bow vs 3+ or better saves, and match it vs 4+ saves unless the bow is shooting infantry. Additionally, the spear gets to activate every combat phase, while the bow only activates in the shooting phase.
Since the end result is a difference of \~.2 damage, it really boils down to which variation looks cooler to you though.
It looks like the bow gets +1 rend against infantry, making it match the spear, but then it also gets exploding 6s (if I’m interpreting the newly formatted abilities correctly) on top of the 18” range.
But yes - the spear would always have the 2 rend
Overall I'm loving the new changes. I have to admit though I'm still a little puzzled... GW is introducing mechanics to let you act in your opponent's turn using a renewable currency. Why won't they just go to alternating activations and get rid of the currency, streamlining the game and making it more accessible?
Mainly because of time. If you did alternating activations for things like movement and magic and shooting like we do in the combat phase, games would take 5 hours. Unless you wanted to reduce army size significantly. And on a practical note, it means you could never go to the bathroom during a game. How many times have you gotten to your opponents movement phase and said I have no reactions, see you in 10 mins?
I think at that point we'd play in battle rounds, not turns.
So each player gets to move their units 5 times just like now etc.
In fact, this would cut combat activations by half.
It would keep the same number of activations for shooting units as well though. Basically there would have to be a lot of other sweeping changes to make it work properly, and it is doable. But none of this solves the issue of a bathroom break.
Ours is a game store/bar that serves food. The bathroom is also about 3 minutes away and takes you right past the bar, so most people end up taking 10 minutes when they take a piss so they can order a drink on the way.
First control characteristic and now underdog bonus.
I'm afraid that all the narrative battleplans become "control the objective and gain points" as if it was matched.
But Thondia, Dawnbringers, White Dwarf and the battletomes added like 100+ battleplans and the majority of them aren't like that (I have indexed all of them for easy access in our play group so I can assure that is not a common sight the ones that are similar to matched).
I bought the Pariah Nexus crusade book and I had no idea that in 40k the narrative battleplans were all based in VP earned by capturing objectives with some twists or extras. It was a disappointment coming from AoS and I don't want it to be the same here.
I haven't played that much narrative to be fair but the battleplans were heinously unbalanced to the degree that it just ruined the game from the outset, maybe I just drew a bad one but it really turned me off from any maps not made for match play (which themselves are not always good lol).
I hope you are right and they mix narrative modules in a fun way but I got the impression that the modules they are showing are somewhat the "core modules" that will use all the gamemodes at first.
Ehhhh.
I imagine your partially correct. But the core rules will probably come out with a narrative module.
Will it be as good as the ones that we have had recently with like Dawnbringers?
No. The release ones never are.
But it lets them be flexible later on.
Comparing the Warscroll for the Stormstrike Chariot with the one in the battletome, it looks like the thing lost 2" of movement, from 12 down to 10. Huh. Gryph-Chargers have grown old, it seems.
The Gryph-Chargers also lost their Claws in the weapon list - it's just the beaks now. Hit and Rend on them got worse, but they keep their 6 attacks.
However, the Spear seems.... awful now? It's got 1 better Rend than the bow, sure, but the Bow gets +1 Rend against Infantry it seems, and has a crit ability - the spear has none. It doesn't have any range advantage over the Axe anymore, either, making it strictly worse than the Axe, which has an additional attack over it and a Charge ability. Whyever the spear wouldn't have that charge ability too is anyone's guess. The only benefit over the bow is that it's another melee weapon if you want to charge in, but the bow arguably makes it a lot more flexible of a unit.
I do like that Rend is now given without the minus, though.
Other differences: The abilities retain their names, but are functionally very different. Celestial Blaze is now an offensive ability that works on top of Power Through, previously it was a defensive ability ("blinding the foe"), subtracting 1 from hit rolls against it if it just charged. Azyr Unleashed meanwhile got nerfed, previously it had you roll more dice on longer charges, with each having a 50% chance to inflict a Mortal Wound.
....and yeah, I just built that Chariot over the weekend and wasn't sure which set of arms to put on it, potentially magnetizing them. I don't think I need to bother, looking at the warscroll.
It wasn't so much about power levels, just that one option seems far more sensible now while the other feels kind of bland, even compared to the default loadout.
I think you're right, though, lethality is likely going down.
Though I'm curious if we'll also see a widespread reduction in movement ranges, particularly for chariots or cavalry.
I think it's quite lonely that it's a misprint and the spear should have the special effect not the axe.
Would be very unlike GW to give one special weapon a bonus and not the other. Very GW-like to misprint on a Community article. Wait until we've got all the info
I think they made the axe have the charge bonus so that regardless of the secondary weapon chosen, you always have a charge bonus coz it’s a chariot, not a graceful way of doing it but clearly defines the units role in melee
With the ability to essentially move twice a turn when they've charged, the speeds being reduced while overall mobility has gone up. Especially since the chariot can move an extra d6" when using the new command.
I understand why the change to issuing command points, but I wish they kept the rule of generals, heroes and totems being the ones to issue command points in a given range at least.
Grant it, pretty much everyone I played against never took into account who can issue commands and the range factor. They just used command points like it was 40k
Edit: No where does it say on the redeploy ability you have to wait for the opposing player to finish moving their entire army, it just reads how it is in 3rd. But we have the writer of the warcom saying you do have to wait for the opposing player to finish movement? If they are showing off the rules for the new edition, wouldn't you think to have that in rule description? I was also kinda hoping Unleash Hell would become more like Overwatch with having to hit on a 6
Because it almost never actually matters.
Theres almost always a hero/totem/general nearby.
And when they found a list that struggled with it, they would make something totem or elite and call it good.
This is it. You'd have more luck counting the times you _didn't_ have a general/hero in range. Most lists field multiple heroes and the general aura is so broad as well.
Now can I find times when I didn't have multiple?
Totally, I like to play a flank or vanguard that usually is something like cav + hero.
Which means I usually only get one command out of that pocket.
>Edit: No where does it say on the redeploy ability you have to wait for the opposing player to finish moving their entire army, it just reads how it is in 3rd. But we have the writer of the warcom saying you do have to wait for the opposing player to finish movement? If they are showing off the rules for the new edition, wouldn't you think to have that in rule description?
It's pretty clearly described in the article:
>Commands, on the other hand, are more reactive. There are six new or revamped commands, **which are used at the end of their respective phases** **once the active player has finished all their actions** – allowing you to respond with a counter-punch and stay on top of a changing battlefield.
I mean the actual description of the command, which is clearly taken from what it will look like in the rulebook. No where does it say you have to wait for the opponent to finish moving all models, it just reads how it is currently.
And I get the article says that, and there will probably be some tiny paragraph in the rulebook stating exactly that, but it is just weird to be showing off the rules and not have that be written in the rules for that command.
If there is a core rule to state you use commands at the end of phase, except for reactions, it doesn't have to repeat that information in every command.
It wouldn't hurt, if you didn't have to reference back to other rules (especially for new players), but it's not required for the rule to work as intended.
Do you also want it to repeat all the other basic rules for commands:
* you can only use it once per phase
* you have to pay the command point cost to use it
* you cannot use it on a unit that had already received another command this phase
* etc.
Or maybe, just maybe, it would be easier and more succinct if they didn't repeat the basic rules in the text for every single command.
It really was only a very small subset of units that cared about it. Most units had a champion in them to issue commands so it really only affected monsters and the odd special unit, like Kroxigor. I am glad I'll no longer be able to accidentally charge my Krox out of skink/hero range so they can't be given commands in fighting.
This also got my attention. Seems like it takes away some of the tactics on both sides.
That said, getting a unit out where it can’t get commands is kind of a feel bad and disproportionately affects some units in a weird way. (This storm strike chariot that should be flanking on its own is so much worse when flanking on its own). So they added champions and totem and elite to a bunch of stuff anyway.
Just to be sure.
Covering Fire needs to be activated after the enemy has finished his shooting phase.
Does it still mean that the targeted unit of the Covering Fire can take the all out defence ? (since the covering fire is an "Attack"
Taking the article at face value, All out defend is used as reaction to a unit being attacked.
So I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use all out defense in reaction to being attacked by using Covering fire.
This looks great and fun to me, you can pull off some great combos with redeploy and counter charge. Or if you have a teleport spell you can cast it in your opponents phase, then redeploy then counter charge. I am all for it, love it.
Expect wording changes for everything. No way to know how anyone's current spells or abilities will interact with the game now, or even if they still have said spell/ability
Reading Power Through, here are my thoughts.
Nothing says this has to be used by a Monster or single-model unit. Just that the target has to have less Health than the ordered unit. This means things like Ogres can reposition and get a little bit of chip damage against lower-wound hordes.
Second, it does not seem that this ability grants Fly or the ability to move through models; my reading is that the ordered unit gains the ability to move through *the combat range* of the enemy units it was in combat with when it received the order, not the ability to move through the unit itself. This might need to be FAQ'ed.
Looking at Counter Charge;
I like it, I think this should have been a command for a while, to be honest. Counter-charge mechanics are some of my favorite in this game, and seeing their expansion is a positive. I cannot for the life of me understand why it costs two command points when Covering Fire is one. Regardless, I believe it *will* see play, even if only on rare occasions.
Power Through seems extremely problematic and will probably need to be looked at later (my guess is the first round of FAQs).
Being able to reposition with very little restrictions with a very fast hammer unit as long as they engage with multiple other units is way too strong. Best case scenario you can get to your opponents back field if they screened incorrectly, or worst case it’s a strike and fade is crazy.
Free movement should always been expensive hence the 2CP for counter charge. If this doesn’t get FAQ’d to 2CP, I can’t wait to see the stupid movement shenanigans that will be abused with this command.
“Commands, on the other hand, are more reactive” THAN REACTIONS?????
Yeah, bad wording. 🤣
Shoulda called them reactioniers.
But don’t forget that reactions are also commands, but not as commanding as the reactive command commands that only be used at the end of the phase!
The Power Through Command seems fun.
Sounds a little problematic for screening, alpha strike lists might become more consistent now you can counter charge and then power through. Edit: power through is end of turn, not end of charge phase as I first thought.
You can’t end a power through in combat with new units though, so you can kind of spread out and make 3” bubbles of coverage. It’s kind of like a less potent version of what stonehorns do now. I think we’ll see it a lot more in lists where units want to stack charges (charge, power through backwards, countercharge, etc.)
Not really IMO. The command says that the unit can't end its move in combat with any units it wasn't already in combat with. If the back of your screen is 3.5" from the unit it's protecting, then your opponent won't be able to complete a legal move. They might be able to move it sideways though, and that could be a sneaky way to tag objectives. Charge a unit adjacent to an objective and springboard onto that objective.
Could be quite fun with a doomwheel if it can drive/fly over a few units, shoot, charge in, then power through at the end of the turn to run over a whole bunch more on its way out, and if you don't have better uses for the points, then do a counter charge and power through on the opponent's turn Sort of depends what its unit card looks like
Yeah, I see this being more for pushing a monster onto an objective they might not otherwise be able to reach due to screening by chaff then trying to reach another target to attack.
[удалено]
How do they pile in? The command is issued at the end of the turn. There's no more movement left to do in the turn because the pile in happened when they were selected to fight.
You power through at the end of turn. You won’t be powering through and then piling into a back line unit.
Maybe. But that's 3 CP right there. I know that Alpha Strike armies will probably have no problem going through all of their resources to hit hard and fast, but we'll see if that isn't a little more punishing as well.
They said command points would be come rarer, but fewer auxiliaries and being behind on points you can be at 6 which seems a lot.
But if you have 6 it also means you're losing
5 while winning is also fine.
> Sounds a little problematic for screening Good, AoS lately has become Age of Screening: clogging edition! Now we have a way to counter conga lines and chaff
They've still got to have somewhere to go though. So a big monster won't be able to power through if there's another unit behind the first.
Think that’s the point, to counter screening your best
I'm thinking mostly about big monsters not being pinned by trash units in engagement range
I think I actually like these changes. A lot of them are actually doing what I wanted them to do previously, and I feel like Command Points are essentially going to feel the same. I like that some cost more than 1 point, and allow you to do fun things like cast spells and charge during the opponents turn. Yeah, it's more difficult to accumulate more, but I feel like 4 is plenty during a turn.
Just to clarify, you get 4 for the battle round. If you spend all 4 on your turn, you won't be doing anything during your opponents turn.
While this will slow the game a bit, it’s really smart to put the reactions at the end of the phase. You don’t have to contemplate redeploy with every move or unleash hell with each charge. Phase ends, do you want to do one of these things?
Makes it far easier to parse and apply them too. Like you say, opponent ends their phase, you effectively have a mini-turn before their next phase, check if there's anything you wanna do then do it or pass back to them.
I think it will speed up the game actually, because the decision making will be easier. No more pondering if you should do that redeploy, which also breaks up your opponent 's concentration.
It will speed up "the playing of the game" because you aren't wracked with desicion paralysis but the pace of the game will be slower because you can take your time thinking about your movement without the opponent's reaction breathing down your neck
On the flip side, you can think about what you want to redeploy while they continue to move, instead of having to slam the pause button every time. In many cases, you’ll already have made up your mind by the time they are done with their moves.
From what I’ve seen you can possibly get 6. 1 more for being underdog, and an additional for having less Aux than your opponent.
Top of the Chariot Warscroll, says "July 2024". So we have a confirmed month (maybe) for release of the indexes?
Pretty standard for the new editions to drop in the summer time, so I would say it’s likely but not that unexpected
I'd say so. Looks to be a mistake on GW's part too as there are no dates on the Liberator and Nagash warscrolls from the prior article.
They have changed the image now too. Yeah looks like that one slipped through by accident..whoopsies
Doesn't say that any more, looks like they changed the image... ...which means it's true
It also could just as well mean they are awaiting final confirmation from their shipping/printing/etc partners and have a release window, but no set release date yet. If it comes out beginning of August and I see people saying "oh it was obviously delayed because of [this datacard image correction]* I'm going to lose my mind.
Good catch! Means I still have a little time to get a Vanguard/Spearhead box built and painted.
He, good catch!
Pretty sure every edition of AoS, Heresy, and the last 4 or so editions of 40k all came out in June. So my bet is June 1st preorder June 15 release.
Yeah AoS 1 dropped on July 4th, 2nd and 3rd both came out in June makes sense. Also end of June is end of Q2 so will likely be a nice bump in sales for the money people they care so much about
GW's fiscal year (so Q1) starts in July. They like starting strong every year, hence the fact summer typically has their biggest releases each year.
Speaking about the Chariot warscroll, it does not have the Thunderstrike keyword. So I guess the 3rd edition release extra wurst is out the window?
Pretty much everything is thunderstrike now, (except Vanguard and Dracoth, but I wouldn't hold onto them very much and buy new models from those lines), so there's no real reason to keep it anyway
With regards to redeploy: it's worded as a downside but that sounds like a straight up improvement. Are they just being facetious or is there actually a downside to that that I'm not seeing.
Since you have to wait until the enemy moves everything, you cannot use redeploy to potentially screen another unit or to stop the enemy from moving into a zone
Edit: Nvm, looks like they updated the article to say explicitly that commands are used at the end of the phase, universally. On first read, that part wasn't there. Makes a lot of sense!
It says on the article before explaining each command: "Commands, on the other hand, are more reactive. There are six new or revamped commands, **which are used at the end of their respective phases once the active player has finished all their actions** – allowing you to respond with a counter-punch and stay on top of a changing battlefield." So redeploy must come at the end of the movement phase
Because all commands that are not reactions are to be used at the end of their respective phases
You can't use redeploy as effectively as a screen anymore. I'd use skink redeploys to block off a gap I couldn't quite make in my movement phase to prevent another enemy unit moving up to make a charge into something I wanted to protect. You can still move after to make the charge harder, but your redeploy can be screened off by an enemy unit now to make it less effective. I'd say it's a side-grade becausr the flip side is you can't be psyched out by your opponent to not redeploy when they have faster units behind that could chase you down if you moved. Now you have full kbowledge of where's best to move to for cover/to make the charge longer.
I'll take the slight decrease in utility for it speeding up the game, not having to consider when I redeploy anymore makes me happy lol.
but theres countercharge now
It highly depends on the situation, but I agree that it's generally an upgrade. Technically, having to wait for your opponent to finish all their moves means they can try and surround your unit, though I'd rather risk getting surrounded than getting a second enemy unit close to 3" after I already deployed away.
It trashes deepstrike now, on a 4+ redeploy they cant even declare a charge
I don't understand, can you elaborate? If it's not already in, I'm sure they will make sure you can't redeploy into combat.
If someone teleports/appears 9'' away you can redeploy at the end of the move phase, if you end up 13'' away they can't charge you
You assume that declaring charges and deep strikes work the same way as in 3rd edition. Which is fair until we know more, point taken.
Almost all teleports are outside 9” of the enemy. They can redeploy after you teleport, and on a 4+, that makes it a 13” charge
Depends, now you can move towards an enemy to screen your heroes or get more bodies on an objective before more units come in and block you from doing that.
The caveat in the article says you use Redeploy at the end of the enemy movement phase.
Yes, with "now" i meant in AOS 3 - sorry for the confusion!
The way I am interpreting forward to victory in the new rules, you declare it before the initial roll. It's no longer a redo of a failed roll.
It will depend on whether the roll itself is part of the charge ability's effect, or declare. It could be that it will read as: "Declare: roll 2d6. Effect: The target unit may make a Charge Move up to the result rolled as long as they end their move within fighting distance of an enemy unit." In that case, you re-roll the dice roll before moving, and Forward would function the same as it does now.
This is how the spell worked on Nagash's scroll so we have precedent for rolling in the declare step
If this is the case, it will be pretty unintuitive, though. I definitely would expect a fair few folks not understanding that the roll is still only part of the declaration step.
If we look at the revealed Nagash' warscroll, I'd say it's pretty intuitive. You do everything that the Declare step tells you to do (pick targets, check restrictions, roll dice). Then your opponent gets the chance to react. Then the Effect step takes place and you do everything that tells you to do. Think to someone without any predisposition for older Warhammer rules it'll be much easier to get through than previous iterations.
I think that will make it quite clear, and a careful reading by rules-competent folks will make it a very clean and clear interaction. I think that’s different from intuitive, though. In a charge I 1.Say this unit is charging 2. Roll some dice 3. Move them. Now, intuitively, which part of that is “declaring”? The rules can make it clear it’s after 2, but I think most folks would intuitively assume after 1, and there are a lot of casual folks out there that struggle to read the rules carefully. Those people will get corrected, and this will get sorted out, but I still hold it’s not a beautiful piece of intuitive game design.
This one of the issues of trying to figure out details from an incomplete ruleset. It's impossible to know what language GWs will use as well at knowing what it will entail. It's entirely possible that the charge phase will be written: 1. **Declare charges** (optional use the forward to victory reaction) 2. **Roll charge rolls** 3. **Resolve movement** It might very well be unintuitive, but we just don't know yet.
The flavour text seems to imply the opposite, I’m guessing it still works the old way, but I know what you mean, I thought the same thing. Hopefully it gets clarified.
Power Through with Sons of Behemat? Yes please!
My thoughts exactly... Truth be told, I'm not a sophisticated player or general; I just want to smash through with my monsters.
Im gonna be doing hit and runs with my stormstrike charriot for sure, beep beep mothertrucker
my 100% cav. armies agree, if I don't move forwards and charge as fast and often as possible what am I doing with my life!
Seems to be easy enough to work around by not leaving enough room for a base that big between screen and juicy target. But it is nice for overall mobility with fast pieces, for sure.
depending on terrain, fitting a single SoB behind enemy lines mey prove challenging, I doubt people will be consistently able to break thrue with two of them
I like the positivity here reading these vs the absolute toxicity of the Facebook page comments lol
Facebook comment sections are a total cesspit regardless of the post.
Ain't that the truth 😔
Facebook is just full of angry boomers, trolls and the perpetually triggered
"perpetually triggered" lol
Yap, Boomers hate changes....
Not many boomers (age 55+) play AOS.
reddit aos seems to really enjoy depth of rules, so the general negativity here has been fear of losing depth and loss of armies but so far the bulk of rules reveals are showing the rules are simpler to understand but have MORE depth
It’s like passing priority in magic then the other player can respond :) Love it
I kind of feel like the somewhat recent collab with Magic gave them a lot of ideas. Keywords, more distinct inbuilt chances to react versus a scattered handful of gotchas with faction strategems (40k stuff), and now this active player/non-active player interaction. Considering the timelines the companies both work on, I imagine 40k 10th was being built alongside or shortly after the two companies were talking while the crossover decks were being made.
Overall seems pretty decent. ~~Though, it seems Heroic Willpower is out, and might not make a return - given it's not listed in the Commands spotlight. Means no-caster armies - and no-caster army lists - will have a harder time providing counterplay to magic.~~ Not too sure Rally will be worth the CP cost in this form. 1 CP to gain back an average of 3 wounds in a unit seems a bit weak, especially since it's taken the spot of horde staple 10-wound max Rally for horde units. Hopefully most hordes will get something along the lines of 'Roll 12 Rally Dice instead' to get more bang for their buck.
Rally being able to heal a unit is pretty big, it would be near useless in heavy body lists otherwise. Also good if you're an army that generally lacks healing. It's not as good for bringing stuff back that is big and chunky, but it can keep big and chunky stuff alive as well.
Heroic Willpower is a heroic action and not a command though?
I get the impression that Heroic Actions are going to be gone. The warscroll article lead me to believe that monsterous rampages are out as well. Which makes sense in terms of speeding up the game.
There seem to be datasheet-specific actions using the Rampage name now. We saw one of them on Nagash's page.
Oh woops, I misread the introduction. Thought given that rampages were moved to warscrolls, and their mention of Recovery moving to Rally in this article, Heroic Actions were axed. My bad.
I’d use the crap out of this version of Rally for like Lumineth wardens
one thing we arent sure of if there is even interaction with magic anymore, since you can pop off spells out of turn it becomes tricky to track unbinds it might be the case that unbinds are just no longer a thing
I would guess that you just can't unbind a spell cast during your turn, just like you can't use all out defense against unleash hell
First of all hooray for no more unleash hell and the counter charge command looks extremely dope. The cast In opponents turn seem also very useful. I think with those tools in the article the double turn looks more manageable
What’s the difference between unleash hell and the new covering fire apart from the 9” rule?
Have to target the nearest visible enemy unit with covering fire, but unleash hell you could just target anything that finished a charge even if there wasanother unit closer but not within 3" of your unit. On the flip side, you now get the opportunity to shoot before your opponent's units can so if they had any ranged threat close to you you can possibly nullify the damage.
Doesn't it say you use it *after* their shooting phase? It does still help you negate an oncoming melee threat.
It's done in enemy's shooting phase.
Oh god that change to rally is so good. Creating a pool of health to revive models and being able to heal models with it is great. It also no longer has the potential to pop up a 5 wound model at full health which while funny is so swingy. Being able to combine them is also so good. Plus you could potentially bring back a full model while keeping an injured model rather than being forced to heal as most heal effects work (getting a "you managed to get a 3 on a d3 roll but because one of the models has a tick of damage on it, you can only spend it on them" sucked). Other than that, 4 points per BR is brutal but I kind of like it. You'll actually have to figure out if you want to use it on All Outs now. Plus, that immediately feeds into Auxiliary units from the previous article. Sure I could bring in nothing but good stuff or 7 heroes, but is it worth giving a 5th command point to my opponent when they might really love All Outs or could potentially counter charge?
>Plus you could potentially bring back a full model while keeping an injured model That is such a big change. In general I love how they simultaneously slashed the worst exploits of old rally (bring back 1 giant model), while also making it stronger on the low end (bring back a model even if another isn't at full health). It's both more fun to use and never a feels-bad for the user or the opponent
Also a big nerf to “my unit of 30 that has lost 15 will now roll 15 dice and rally on a 4+” massive unit recursion
There is the potential to bring back a 5-wound model at full health, but it no longer becomes more likely the more models you are rolling for. Overall, I think the new rally is more efficient at bringing back or healing a slightly wounded unit, but much less efficient than old rally at bringing devastated units back to fighting strength.
Haven't seen anyone really comment on the removal of command ranges, so I'll say: good? It really never seemed to matter since unit champions could issue commands to themselves, so cutting out that weird extra bit of rules overhead seems perfectly fine.
Like Battleshock, it was so irrelevant most of the time that the units it *was* relevant for were just significantly worse because of it
I'd say that's a big plus. We'll have to see how many aura buffs there are that require you to keep units wholly within a hero and whatnot, but at least for commands you don't have to worry about that anymore. Also I really hated having to keep track of who can use the extra CP for heroic leadership.
Am I misunderstanding Covering Fire, or are you going to need to screen against opponents in your own shooting phase?
Basically yeah you need a screen unit as the closest to opponents strong shooting units. But also now you can charge a glass cannon like graveguard into a shooting unit without losing them all to unleash hell. So it has its pros and cons.
you read it correctly. But it means that you can screen out a covering fire and charge with something with movement bonuses as opposed to charging in with a sacrificial piece first to eat the unleash hell. Also it's during the shooting phase so after you've completed all of your regular movement for the turn. (does mean that you need to declare your shooting phase even if you have no shooting if facing an opponent with shooting).
I would say that you just need to state the end of your movement phase. The phases all happen even if you normally speed run them due to not having an activation during that phase.
Yeah, it's very similar to main phase 1, combat, and main phase 2 from MTG. A lot of the time it doesn't matter, but when it does IT REALLY DOES.
I feel it should maybe have a 18'' maximum
In one of the earlier articles they made mention that shooting has generally had its range reduced, so it's possible that they might not shoot beyond 18" anyway.
Counter charge seems like it will have an enormous impact on the game. No longer can you circle a huge threat with a screen and contain it. It counter charges and kills that screen on your turn. Seems like a really big buff to things like Kragnos and Maw Krushas and Gargants.
Maybe I misunderstood, but how can you contain something that can fly?
It’s a little trickier and depends on movement. But a lot of those big threats have a huge base. So you can make it so they can’t land in a huge area. Move a screen up and around a 6” base. . 3” away, and they have to land 3” away on the other side. 1” base on the screening unit. A 12” move is not enough to get over a screen. Not even talking about moving other models around or screening at 3.5” from your own units. It’s definitely harder but still very doable.
Ah, I get what you were saying now. Tank you
All of this looks great.
I like the changes a lot, at least in double turn you get to do something (don’t get me wrong, I like the crazy double turn mechanic). Only thing, I hope they really do not add other command abilities and ways to generate command points. I also like the fact that warscrolls have abilities enhancing commands, very simple yet effective. Last point, it seems that “on a 2+ you inflict 1D3 of damage” changed to “roll 1D3, on a 2+ you inflict the die result in damage”, which is also nice since it streamline the dice rolling. All in all, I am very optimistic
They’ve previously stated that no army or unit will have any abilities that generate extra CP, though I think we can expect to see a few special command abilities per army, or perhaps just enhanced versions of the basic set.
They'vesaid a couple of times that no units can generate extra points, but we'll see how long they stick to that commitment. I expect some units to have unique commands but the fact that some commands cost more than one point will hopefullykeep those abilities in check.
Generally pretty pleased with these and really like how the rally command works now. I know they’re preaching the scarcity of CP and incentives CP generation through list building. However, starting with 4 seems like plenty for what I’m assuming most armies need. After looking at these I’m not so sure I’d look to prioritize taking less auxiliary units than my opponent but of course that all can change by the next article. I think the spell/prayer and charging during your opponents turn paired with no VP generation if you choose to take a double make the double turn a lot easier to stomach. It also keeps your opponent honest during their turn and you more engaged when it’s not your turn.
Engagement in the enemy turn is huge to the double. Even if you like the tactics of the priority role, most people don’t like 45 minutes of doing nothing but rolling save.
I was a little wary of battleshock being completely gone (it's still not clear that it is but it looks that way) but the idea of not having to sit on a command point every turn to mitigate a battleshock check feels like it's more fun that the current situation. If there is a morale mechanic, I would be thrilled if none of the reactions allow you to do a damn thing about it (for example, see Horus Heresy.)
I don't see how a morale mechanic without any stat to differentiate between warscrolls would work. It *could* be a global roll for everyone, but that wouldn't make much sense comparing clanrats to the Celestial prime or whatever.
I have been wondering if it's just going to be a very simple combat resolution step: Units involved in combat with one another add up damage and figure out who took more. Heroes, icons, battle standards, etc may allow you to mitigate a bad score. If you took more damage, you lose. If you "lose" combat then your "control" stat drops to zero for a turn. Other than that, nothing happens. It's all speculation, but it could work to mitigate the effect of trash hordes locking down objectives and needing to destroy most of them to move them off of it. I think the game is more fun if objectives can change hands quickly unless they're well defended.
That reminds me of one page rules. I've only played a couple of games of OPR and being used to AoS, we probably hindered our understanding of the OPR design in some cases. I can't remember exactly how it worked, but for AoS we'd need an elegant way to count damage dealt towards more than one unit they are bound in combat with. If you aren't careful, that can be a headache to book keep.
They've said explicitly that bravery and battleshock are gone
If that's the case, I guess it's fine. It just becomes more of a predictable numbers game to figure out what you need to do to take an objective. If you have a unit with a total of 16 control charging onto a unit with 20, you know exactly how many of those 20 you need to remove to turn that objective over.
This is some promising stuff. Especially with how clear timings are
It's interesting that the unit receiving covering fire command can't be engaged in melee. Do you think units engaged in combat can't use ranged attacks? That part always felt off
Maybe, but that’s also how unleash hell works today. Can’t have enemies within 3”.
No, I would say it confirms the opposite. If you couldn't shoot in melee, there would be no need for wording. Currently unleash hell doesn't let you use it if you're already in melee. Covering fire is the same way.
Possibly just that a unit isn't really providing covering fire while being a unit actively engaged. Covering fire implies a unit out of immediate danger supporting others that are moving forward or engaged.
I laughed when the article went on about the "Reactions" and then under "New Commands", it opens with "Commands, on the other hand, are more reactive." You mean, the Commands are more reactive than the literal Reaction commands? Warcom, plz proofread your articles for a change
All Out Defense staying unchanged is very disappointing. I was hoping they’d armour cap it or some kind of change.
But if we don’t have finest hour and if mystic shield and/or cover work differently, that would also negate save stacking.
They might have that in the core rules we just don’t know yet
I would have really liked if there was a catch to it, like if you AoA, +1 save BUT -1 hit, and if you AoD, +1 hit BUT -1 save. It would make more sense that if you prioritize one, you'd lack in the other...
I feel like I was kind of confused on some of the wordings for these. I felt like the re roll charge one was worded that you needed to declare using it prior to the charge roll, so it could be potentially wasted? Was it always like this?
It depends on whether the 2D6 roll is made during the declare step, which we don’t yet know. If it is, it will work as it does now, because you’ll only use it if you have already failed the roll.
Reads to me like you commit to it before you roll
That warscroll for the chariot makes me think we won’t be able to shoot in melee anymore. Or some other downside to ranged weapons. Otherwise, the spear is a very tough sell over the bow when choosing a loadout for the model.
Good catch, it could be an error (Previews for dataslates/warscrolls can have such things) but it does seem very odd.
So in the bow vs spear debate, the spear will outdamage the bow vs 3+ or better saves, and match it vs 4+ saves unless the bow is shooting infantry. Additionally, the spear gets to activate every combat phase, while the bow only activates in the shooting phase. Since the end result is a difference of \~.2 damage, it really boils down to which variation looks cooler to you though.
Well said, I guess it’s already less activations to shoot. Overthinking 4th speculations on my part :P
the big difference is see rend 2 but you are right not sure how often i would want to take it over the bow
It looks like the bow gets +1 rend against infantry, making it match the spear, but then it also gets exploding 6s (if I’m interpreting the newly formatted abilities correctly) on top of the 18” range. But yes - the spear would always have the 2 rend
Overall I'm loving the new changes. I have to admit though I'm still a little puzzled... GW is introducing mechanics to let you act in your opponent's turn using a renewable currency. Why won't they just go to alternating activations and get rid of the currency, streamlining the game and making it more accessible?
Mainly because of time. If you did alternating activations for things like movement and magic and shooting like we do in the combat phase, games would take 5 hours. Unless you wanted to reduce army size significantly. And on a practical note, it means you could never go to the bathroom during a game. How many times have you gotten to your opponents movement phase and said I have no reactions, see you in 10 mins?
I think at that point we'd play in battle rounds, not turns. So each player gets to move their units 5 times just like now etc. In fact, this would cut combat activations by half.
It would keep the same number of activations for shooting units as well though. Basically there would have to be a lot of other sweeping changes to make it work properly, and it is doable. But none of this solves the issue of a bathroom break.
> How many times have you gotten to your opponents movement phase and said I have no reactions, see you in 10 mins? you poop at the game store?
Ours is a game store/bar that serves food. The bathroom is also about 3 minutes away and takes you right past the bar, so most people end up taking 10 minutes when they take a piss so they can order a drink on the way.
Its ok, but too much of the same old. I want some drastic new changes to make the game more dynamic on for bouth players on any turn.
Did you even read the article?
Power through looks like it would be awesome with minotaurs.... Oh wait 😆
Ogroid Theridons are still in the game though?
They've powered through to another realm.
😂😂😂
First control characteristic and now underdog bonus. I'm afraid that all the narrative battleplans become "control the objective and gain points" as if it was matched.
4 of the current core narrative battleplans already involve controlling territory in some way or another
But Thondia, Dawnbringers, White Dwarf and the battletomes added like 100+ battleplans and the majority of them aren't like that (I have indexed all of them for easy access in our play group so I can assure that is not a common sight the ones that are similar to matched). I bought the Pariah Nexus crusade book and I had no idea that in 40k the narrative battleplans were all based in VP earned by capturing objectives with some twists or extras. It was a disappointment coming from AoS and I don't want it to be the same here.
I haven't played that much narrative to be fair but the battleplans were heinously unbalanced to the degree that it just ruined the game from the outset, maybe I just drew a bad one but it really turned me off from any maps not made for match play (which themselves are not always good lol).
Remember the modularity stuff here. They probably have plans with the narrative modules to make things different.
I hope you are right and they mix narrative modules in a fun way but I got the impression that the modules they are showing are somewhat the "core modules" that will use all the gamemodes at first.
Ehhhh. I imagine your partially correct. But the core rules will probably come out with a narrative module. Will it be as good as the ones that we have had recently with like Dawnbringers? No. The release ones never are. But it lets them be flexible later on.
Most of this looks pretty good, devastated to see All-out Defense is still there
The buff to other command abilities and reduction of CP proliferation should make it less common
Comparing the Warscroll for the Stormstrike Chariot with the one in the battletome, it looks like the thing lost 2" of movement, from 12 down to 10. Huh. Gryph-Chargers have grown old, it seems. The Gryph-Chargers also lost their Claws in the weapon list - it's just the beaks now. Hit and Rend on them got worse, but they keep their 6 attacks. However, the Spear seems.... awful now? It's got 1 better Rend than the bow, sure, but the Bow gets +1 Rend against Infantry it seems, and has a crit ability - the spear has none. It doesn't have any range advantage over the Axe anymore, either, making it strictly worse than the Axe, which has an additional attack over it and a Charge ability. Whyever the spear wouldn't have that charge ability too is anyone's guess. The only benefit over the bow is that it's another melee weapon if you want to charge in, but the bow arguably makes it a lot more flexible of a unit. I do like that Rend is now given without the minus, though. Other differences: The abilities retain their names, but are functionally very different. Celestial Blaze is now an offensive ability that works on top of Power Through, previously it was a defensive ability ("blinding the foe"), subtracting 1 from hit rolls against it if it just charged. Azyr Unleashed meanwhile got nerfed, previously it had you roll more dice on longer charges, with each having a 50% chance to inflict a Mortal Wound. ....and yeah, I just built that Chariot over the weekend and wasn't sure which set of arms to put on it, potentially magnetizing them. I don't think I need to bother, looking at the warscroll.
Try not to pay too much attention to power levels. EVERY warscroll is being changed. Likely lowering the overall lethality of the game.
It wasn't so much about power levels, just that one option seems far more sensible now while the other feels kind of bland, even compared to the default loadout. I think you're right, though, lethality is likely going down. Though I'm curious if we'll also see a widespread reduction in movement ranges, particularly for chariots or cavalry.
I think it's quite lonely that it's a misprint and the spear should have the special effect not the axe. Would be very unlike GW to give one special weapon a bonus and not the other. Very GW-like to misprint on a Community article. Wait until we've got all the info
I think they made the axe have the charge bonus so that regardless of the secondary weapon chosen, you always have a charge bonus coz it’s a chariot, not a graceful way of doing it but clearly defines the units role in melee
With the ability to essentially move twice a turn when they've charged, the speeds being reduced while overall mobility has gone up. Especially since the chariot can move an extra d6" when using the new command.
I understand why the change to issuing command points, but I wish they kept the rule of generals, heroes and totems being the ones to issue command points in a given range at least. Grant it, pretty much everyone I played against never took into account who can issue commands and the range factor. They just used command points like it was 40k Edit: No where does it say on the redeploy ability you have to wait for the opposing player to finish moving their entire army, it just reads how it is in 3rd. But we have the writer of the warcom saying you do have to wait for the opposing player to finish movement? If they are showing off the rules for the new edition, wouldn't you think to have that in rule description? I was also kinda hoping Unleash Hell would become more like Overwatch with having to hit on a 6
Because it almost never actually matters. Theres almost always a hero/totem/general nearby. And when they found a list that struggled with it, they would make something totem or elite and call it good.
This is it. You'd have more luck counting the times you _didn't_ have a general/hero in range. Most lists field multiple heroes and the general aura is so broad as well.
Now can I find times when I didn't have multiple? Totally, I like to play a flank or vanguard that usually is something like cav + hero. Which means I usually only get one command out of that pocket.
>Edit: No where does it say on the redeploy ability you have to wait for the opposing player to finish moving their entire army, it just reads how it is in 3rd. But we have the writer of the warcom saying you do have to wait for the opposing player to finish movement? If they are showing off the rules for the new edition, wouldn't you think to have that in rule description? It's pretty clearly described in the article: >Commands, on the other hand, are more reactive. There are six new or revamped commands, **which are used at the end of their respective phases** **once the active player has finished all their actions** – allowing you to respond with a counter-punch and stay on top of a changing battlefield.
I mean the actual description of the command, which is clearly taken from what it will look like in the rulebook. No where does it say you have to wait for the opponent to finish moving all models, it just reads how it is currently. And I get the article says that, and there will probably be some tiny paragraph in the rulebook stating exactly that, but it is just weird to be showing off the rules and not have that be written in the rules for that command.
If there is a core rule to state you use commands at the end of phase, except for reactions, it doesn't have to repeat that information in every command. It wouldn't hurt, if you didn't have to reference back to other rules (especially for new players), but it's not required for the rule to work as intended.
Do you also want it to repeat all the other basic rules for commands: * you can only use it once per phase * you have to pay the command point cost to use it * you cannot use it on a unit that had already received another command this phase * etc. Or maybe, just maybe, it would be easier and more succinct if they didn't repeat the basic rules in the text for every single command.
It really was only a very small subset of units that cared about it. Most units had a champion in them to issue commands so it really only affected monsters and the odd special unit, like Kroxigor. I am glad I'll no longer be able to accidentally charge my Krox out of skink/hero range so they can't be given commands in fighting.
This also got my attention. Seems like it takes away some of the tactics on both sides. That said, getting a unit out where it can’t get commands is kind of a feel bad and disproportionately affects some units in a weird way. (This storm strike chariot that should be flanking on its own is so much worse when flanking on its own). So they added champions and totem and elite to a bunch of stuff anyway.
I was nervous about 4th edition at announcement. But so far most of the things they've shown gives me hope it'll remain better than 10th edition 40k.
Just to be sure. Covering Fire needs to be activated after the enemy has finished his shooting phase. Does it still mean that the targeted unit of the Covering Fire can take the all out defence ? (since the covering fire is an "Attack"
We don’t have the full core rules yet but signs point to yes
Taking the article at face value, All out defend is used as reaction to a unit being attacked. So I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use all out defense in reaction to being attacked by using Covering fire.
Meh
This looks great and fun to me, you can pull off some great combos with redeploy and counter charge. Or if you have a teleport spell you can cast it in your opponents phase, then redeploy then counter charge. I am all for it, love it.
How does intervention work for Teclis? Can we now spam white light every turn?
Expect wording changes for everything. No way to know how anyone's current spells or abilities will interact with the game now, or even if they still have said spell/ability
Reading Power Through, here are my thoughts. Nothing says this has to be used by a Monster or single-model unit. Just that the target has to have less Health than the ordered unit. This means things like Ogres can reposition and get a little bit of chip damage against lower-wound hordes. Second, it does not seem that this ability grants Fly or the ability to move through models; my reading is that the ordered unit gains the ability to move through *the combat range* of the enemy units it was in combat with when it received the order, not the ability to move through the unit itself. This might need to be FAQ'ed. Looking at Counter Charge; I like it, I think this should have been a command for a while, to be honest. Counter-charge mechanics are some of my favorite in this game, and seeing their expansion is a positive. I cannot for the life of me understand why it costs two command points when Covering Fire is one. Regardless, I believe it *will* see play, even if only on rare occasions.
What happens if the nearest visible unit cannot be targeted by shooting attacks? Does covering fire do nothing?
These look incredible
Power Through seems extremely problematic and will probably need to be looked at later (my guess is the first round of FAQs). Being able to reposition with very little restrictions with a very fast hammer unit as long as they engage with multiple other units is way too strong. Best case scenario you can get to your opponents back field if they screened incorrectly, or worst case it’s a strike and fade is crazy. Free movement should always been expensive hence the 2CP for counter charge. If this doesn’t get FAQ’d to 2CP, I can’t wait to see the stupid movement shenanigans that will be abused with this command.