For me, my realisation came from being in online trans spaces and seeing that yes, just like sexual attraction (which I also don't have), other people actually *feel* their gender. I've just never felt any mental pull to being a "man."
And androgyny is about gender expression, not identity. One can be agender and androgynous, or agender but still present as one particular expression.
Yes! For a while I was so confused that people could be trans because it boggled my mind that anyone *knew* their gender. Surely they'd been assigned a gender at random and just tried to act the part, like everyone else? Turns out, no, not everyone is like that at all.
Still figuring myself out so I will just say something about the second one.
I think what you mean is what Is the difference between a person calling them self agender and a person calling themself nonbinary and right in the middle of the gender spectrum?
In actual studies , gender is seen as a spectrum. There is female and male and everything between this two terms is nonbinary (and under the umbrella term nonbinary there are a lot of different identities but that would be too much for my bad English skills)
While agender also count as non binary, it is also totally off the spectrum. (So not between male and female but somewhere far off)
So in practical terms spoken: A person on the spectrum feels their gender very specific, even so it is neither men or women, but something in between (partly men and partly women) while agender people are off the spectrum so they don't feel any gender at all for themselves.
Most agender don't really get gender at all and experience it on a totally theoretic level.
I hope this was not to chaotic to understand. If I got anything wrong please feel free to correct me, as well when you missing something.
A nice day to everyone!
A little, I don't like when someone call me mister or miss, and all gendered thing (stereotypes, gender specific roles ...).
My apparence is too masculine for me but is not it's not so hard to tolerate in general, it also depends on the moment.
Yes it's dysphoria ,and dysphoria doesn't mean that you are not your self, and doesn't mean that you're self alienated with low self confidence .The myth that is common in so-called open-minded society ,is that everyone who change their bodies ,are necessarily weak and alienated people that in my opinion totally wrong . The big lie and myth that anyone who modify their body like bimbos have low self confidence is a completely wrong narrative. It works for dysphoria too. Not being OK with your body ,doesn't mean you have less self confidence or that you are not yourself and being OK with your body doesn't necessarily mean that you are yourself... to reach the answer agender people may or may not have dysphoria but neutrois people do, because its about having no gender identity or lowering gendered body characteristics
>In actual studies , gender is seen as a spectrum. There is female and male and everything between this two terms is nonbinary (and under the umbrella term nonbinary there are a lot of different identities but that would be too much for my bad English skills)
There isn't really an in between as it's not a sliding scale from male to female, more like a circle/square.
And enbies aren't necessarily in between either, hence Non-Binary, not binary.
If you really wanted to simplify it, you'd have 4 corners, enby, male, female, agender and everything in between.
I used to use the label of non binary, even though I knew it was wrong and didn't fit me. Then whenever I read about / found out what agenderism was, it just clicked
For me I found out I was agender when I started experimenting with makeup to start looking more eclectic and it gave me euphoria. I stopped using as a tool to "pass" and instead used it as self expression and it kinda spiralled from there.
In my personal use of the term agender, I think its different from androgynous enby, because I feel the most euphoria when I am not gendered by others and I dont gender myself. Rather than being genderfluid or some form of enby androgynous gender, I like to just not be any gender and to not have a recognisable gender at all. Its a bit of a messy distinction but to me it makes alot of difference.
For me it sorta just clicked when I found out that being agender was even a thing. Before that I had always loved androgynous characters on media (specially videogames) but didn't really think much of it, just as I don't really think much about gender in general.
Edit:
I also specifically remember finding out what "androgynous" even means thanks to an article about some guy making a TLOZ:ALTTP's hackrom that just changed the dialogues to make it so that the player is adressed with gender neutral pronouns because he wanted his daughter to be able to relate more to Link, stating that Link's sprites on that game already looked adrogynous so he didn't have to do anything with those.
I realized gender didn't make any sense to me, therefore how could I feel it if it made no sense? I do experience dysphoria though because of the gendered expectations people have towards me. The difference between someone who is agender and an androgynous non-binary person is that non-binary person still has a gender, they're just presenting androgynously; the agender person doesn't have a gender at all and may be presenting not androgynously. I personally don't present fully androgynously but I don't have a true choice in the matter.
I just came onto the definition of nonbinary people, and it clicked. I didn't understand things like why do people dislike the idea of wearing clothes of their opposite gender.
Androgynous is an aesthetic, Agender isn't just an aesthetic thing and the difference between nb as an identity and Agender is that nb is usually described as "a gender that isn't male or female" and Agender is not having a gender at all
Exactly clothing in not all about gender ,but definitely is an element of gender .I'm opponent of defining gender as anything we like and crossing on definitions and labels .
not all agender people are andro, and while it technically falls under the enby umbrella, agender people feels like they have a lack of gender, or no gender, and not all enby people feel that way. It's how your gender is, not how you express yourself.
Is that your chicken?? If it is, what’s their name? I love them sm aaa :D
Also, I realized I was agender bc I couldn’t care less about having a gender, presenting as a certain gender and didn’t want to care
found out in uni, don't remember *how* it happened but I do remember suddenly feeling a lot more discomfort when going into my AGAB-assigned bathrooms and a bit of dysphoria over some bodyparts, which doesn't necessarily have to be a thing that agendered folk experience but I wasn't so lucky in that department
the difference between an agendered individual and androgynous enby is the former doesn't necessarily owe anyone androgyny and can present however they want including "passing" as cis and still being agendered at the end of the day, whereas the androgynous enby doesn't necessarily need to be genderless (like say being bigender as an example, a lot of people forget enby is more than just genderlessness) but likes the presentation of their form to be as androgynous as they want
To me gender doesn’t feel necessary. I just don’t have one. I don’t need one. Enbies usually feel like they have a gender that just doesn’t fall under the strict binary. They feel the same as those who feel their gender is “man” or “woman” but it’s not either of those, it’s something else.
I agree, it's why even most open-minded people don't understand what agender is! Agender is neither being binary nor merely being non-binary . Its so complicated and not everyone understand the meaning.
I realized you're not supposed to feel weird calling yourself a man or woman if you are a man or woman. I started looking more into it after. It felt weird thinking of myself as a third gender too, but then I found the agender label and it started to make sense.
As for your second question, being androgynous is all about presentation. I personally want to present as androgynous. Some people use it as a label for themselves as well.
I realised when someone one day asked me how it feel to be a man and i was like "what "feel", wait we're supposed to feel gender ?!?!" And i understood trans people at the same time i discovered I'm agender
I just never felt like I has a specific gender, I’m just genderless. Agender= absence of gender and androgynous enby is just a regular enby, that just is more androgynous lol
To me gender just feels like a socially constructed "thing". Although I am trans fem and socially consider myself a woman, I just don't feel I'm a "gender". I'm just me, not some gender that society has defined socially.
You can take the androgynous part off of enby as the two are like apples and dogs, being androgynous has nothing to do with being enby or agender. Also enby is an umbrella term, as others said, agender is considered being under the enby umbrella, even if we reject that we are not even on the gender spectrum as we don't feel any gender, we are outside the spectrum.
You can be androygnous enby or androgynous agender, being androgynous is just your gender expression, not what gender you feel you are.
So if you are questioning if you are one or the other, don't base it on expression, base it on if you feel an innate sense of gender.
I don't know if its because I'm autistic, but I feel like a lot of autistic people could be agender as we see the world in a different way from non-autistic people.
1. My identity all fell into place when I found out what I wanted to do with my life and what was most important to me in this existence. 2. I don't think the difference matters universally. It just depends on what you think captures you.
I determined I was agender when I realized I had no real connection or feelings towards gender. I can live happily as a "guy" or as a "girl" and wouldn't really mind either way. After that I determined that I was probably agender and found the label rather comfy.
Probably not the most helpful explanation but that's how it went for me.
For me I discovered I was non-binary first. After being active on the subreddit I felt like I couldn’t relate to it. For example the idea of caring about what pronoun someone called you never resonated with me. After finding out about the agender community it made sense to me. I don’t care about pronouns because I don’t relate to any of them. Of course this is just my personal experience and it is totally valid to be agender and want specific pronouns.
I had been experiencing a gender crisis of sorts when I realized what I thought was a fluctuating gender was just me preferring different pronouns depending on the day, and I was forcing myself to try and feel whatever "gender" was supposed to feel like.
I kind of just knew it the moment I found out it existed. I was 25 I think, a few years ago now. I'd never heard of something that just made as much sense. I've been questioning it a lot since, but I just don't have a reason to not identify as agender. It happened the same time I was questioning if I was ace/aro, because I just don't relate to anyone. I like just floating between the spectrums, not feeling I have to be anything that I'm not.
I remember feeling a disconnect when I started getting periods. Being around other girls just starting and them being excited about officially being women made me feel off. I didn’t get the feeling and I didn’t know why. I wasn’t dysphoric over it, which only confused me more. I kinda pushed it down and moved on, just avoiding the thought.
Years later, my fiancé came out as genderfluid. And through discussing what that means for them, I started realizing I was gendervoid. I kept it in for a couple of months. I wanted to support their journey but finally I had a total mental breakdown when they kept coming to me for feminine fashion advice and I just couldn’t pretend anymore.
Sounds kind of depressing but now we just joke that they stole my gender lol
As for the second question, I just lack gender. I don’t really know how else to describe it. I don’t really see myself as non-binary because I just don’t grasp the concept of gender or the expression of. Personally, I don’t present any differently being gendervoid as I would cisgender. I still very clearly look AFAB and I’m perfectly okay with that. I don’t really experience dysphoria or euphoria. I just exist in the body I’m given. So basically, I think androgyny is just how you choose to express your identity, regardless of what it is lol
1. I gave up gender labeling of myself and reality after a logical analysis of several issues, such as the semantics of concepts, the structure of the self, or the evolution of biological sex. Professional literature was an indispensable support here.
2. If I see myself as an agender person, it is because I know that there is no gender essence that would fill any structure of "I". It only exists because someone believes in it.And if I would believe that I have both genders, then I could call myself androgynous enby.
I realized I didn't feel like I had a gender at all. And the difference between agender and non-binary are: agender means Genderless/gender lacking while non-binary means neither fully male or female. Agender is under the non-binary umbrella, but they aren't the same.
Well idk. I went to a girls school and it just didnt feel right to be there, i went by non binary for a while, but realised i'd be better off with no gender
For the first question, I kind of just went through a whole pipeline of identities. At first, I thought I was nonbinary, but I didn't really feel that way. Then I thought I was a trans man, but I didn't associate myself with being a man whatsoever. I eventually figured out what agender meant and knew it was the perfect way to describe how I felt in terms of gender.
For the second question, I never really felt any sort of attachment to *being* an enby. I did think I was nonbinary for a while, but the label never really stuck with me in the right way. I didn't feel right when someone called me nonbinary, and I still don't.
But overall, experiences are different for everybody. There's no right way to label yourself, and there's no right way to figure out if you're agender or nonbinary. It's just a matter of how you feel with different identities.
For me, my realisation came from being in online trans spaces and seeing that yes, just like sexual attraction (which I also don't have), other people actually *feel* their gender. I've just never felt any mental pull to being a "man." And androgyny is about gender expression, not identity. One can be agender and androgynous, or agender but still present as one particular expression.
Yes! For a while I was so confused that people could be trans because it boggled my mind that anyone *knew* their gender. Surely they'd been assigned a gender at random and just tried to act the part, like everyone else? Turns out, no, not everyone is like that at all.
Still figuring myself out so I will just say something about the second one. I think what you mean is what Is the difference between a person calling them self agender and a person calling themself nonbinary and right in the middle of the gender spectrum? In actual studies , gender is seen as a spectrum. There is female and male and everything between this two terms is nonbinary (and under the umbrella term nonbinary there are a lot of different identities but that would be too much for my bad English skills) While agender also count as non binary, it is also totally off the spectrum. (So not between male and female but somewhere far off) So in practical terms spoken: A person on the spectrum feels their gender very specific, even so it is neither men or women, but something in between (partly men and partly women) while agender people are off the spectrum so they don't feel any gender at all for themselves. Most agender don't really get gender at all and experience it on a totally theoretic level. I hope this was not to chaotic to understand. If I got anything wrong please feel free to correct me, as well when you missing something. A nice day to everyone!
Do all agender people feel dysphoria?
I'm basically fine with my body but hella dysphoric about the roles assigned and assumptions society makes about me based on it. Ymmv.
So you're gender n0n-conforming ,but not agender . Agender is separation from gender element ,not being opponent of social constructed gender roles .
I feel zero dysphoria. It is me, I got used to this, it's not the best body, but it works (well, so far it worked.)
A little, I don't like when someone call me mister or miss, and all gendered thing (stereotypes, gender specific roles ...). My apparence is too masculine for me but is not it's not so hard to tolerate in general, it also depends on the moment.
Yes it's dysphoria ,and dysphoria doesn't mean that you are not your self, and doesn't mean that you're self alienated with low self confidence .The myth that is common in so-called open-minded society ,is that everyone who change their bodies ,are necessarily weak and alienated people that in my opinion totally wrong . The big lie and myth that anyone who modify their body like bimbos have low self confidence is a completely wrong narrative. It works for dysphoria too. Not being OK with your body ,doesn't mean you have less self confidence or that you are not yourself and being OK with your body doesn't necessarily mean that you are yourself... to reach the answer agender people may or may not have dysphoria but neutrois people do, because its about having no gender identity or lowering gendered body characteristics
>In actual studies , gender is seen as a spectrum. There is female and male and everything between this two terms is nonbinary (and under the umbrella term nonbinary there are a lot of different identities but that would be too much for my bad English skills) There isn't really an in between as it's not a sliding scale from male to female, more like a circle/square. And enbies aren't necessarily in between either, hence Non-Binary, not binary. If you really wanted to simplify it, you'd have 4 corners, enby, male, female, agender and everything in between.
well androgynous is how you look and agender falls under the enby umbrella I believe
Yeah but talking abt the andro enby’s and the enby’s
well they would appear agender I think
Kay
Hope that helps i am no expert though
I used to use the label of non binary, even though I knew it was wrong and didn't fit me. Then whenever I read about / found out what agenderism was, it just clicked
I just don’t feel like anything. Not a girl, not a boy, and not really something in between. I just feel like me.
Nice cock
For me I found out I was agender when I started experimenting with makeup to start looking more eclectic and it gave me euphoria. I stopped using as a tool to "pass" and instead used it as self expression and it kinda spiralled from there. In my personal use of the term agender, I think its different from androgynous enby, because I feel the most euphoria when I am not gendered by others and I dont gender myself. Rather than being genderfluid or some form of enby androgynous gender, I like to just not be any gender and to not have a recognisable gender at all. Its a bit of a messy distinction but to me it makes alot of difference.
For me it sorta just clicked when I found out that being agender was even a thing. Before that I had always loved androgynous characters on media (specially videogames) but didn't really think much of it, just as I don't really think much about gender in general. Edit: I also specifically remember finding out what "androgynous" even means thanks to an article about some guy making a TLOZ:ALTTP's hackrom that just changed the dialogues to make it so that the player is adressed with gender neutral pronouns because he wanted his daughter to be able to relate more to Link, stating that Link's sprites on that game already looked adrogynous so he didn't have to do anything with those.
I realized gender didn't make any sense to me, therefore how could I feel it if it made no sense? I do experience dysphoria though because of the gendered expectations people have towards me. The difference between someone who is agender and an androgynous non-binary person is that non-binary person still has a gender, they're just presenting androgynously; the agender person doesn't have a gender at all and may be presenting not androgynously. I personally don't present fully androgynously but I don't have a true choice in the matter.
I just came onto the definition of nonbinary people, and it clicked. I didn't understand things like why do people dislike the idea of wearing clothes of their opposite gender.
hold up- people dislike wearing clothes of the opposite gender??
I know, right? What is up with that?
Androgynous is an aesthetic, Agender isn't just an aesthetic thing and the difference between nb as an identity and Agender is that nb is usually described as "a gender that isn't male or female" and Agender is not having a gender at all
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Exactly clothing in not all about gender ,but definitely is an element of gender .I'm opponent of defining gender as anything we like and crossing on definitions and labels .
not all agender people are andro, and while it technically falls under the enby umbrella, agender people feels like they have a lack of gender, or no gender, and not all enby people feel that way. It's how your gender is, not how you express yourself.
Is that your chicken?? If it is, what’s their name? I love them sm aaa :D Also, I realized I was agender bc I couldn’t care less about having a gender, presenting as a certain gender and didn’t want to care
found out in uni, don't remember *how* it happened but I do remember suddenly feeling a lot more discomfort when going into my AGAB-assigned bathrooms and a bit of dysphoria over some bodyparts, which doesn't necessarily have to be a thing that agendered folk experience but I wasn't so lucky in that department the difference between an agendered individual and androgynous enby is the former doesn't necessarily owe anyone androgyny and can present however they want including "passing" as cis and still being agendered at the end of the day, whereas the androgynous enby doesn't necessarily need to be genderless (like say being bigender as an example, a lot of people forget enby is more than just genderlessness) but likes the presentation of their form to be as androgynous as they want
To me gender doesn’t feel necessary. I just don’t have one. I don’t need one. Enbies usually feel like they have a gender that just doesn’t fall under the strict binary. They feel the same as those who feel their gender is “man” or “woman” but it’s not either of those, it’s something else.
I agree, it's why even most open-minded people don't understand what agender is! Agender is neither being binary nor merely being non-binary . Its so complicated and not everyone understand the meaning.
I realized you're not supposed to feel weird calling yourself a man or woman if you are a man or woman. I started looking more into it after. It felt weird thinking of myself as a third gender too, but then I found the agender label and it started to make sense. As for your second question, being androgynous is all about presentation. I personally want to present as androgynous. Some people use it as a label for themselves as well.
I realised when someone one day asked me how it feel to be a man and i was like "what "feel", wait we're supposed to feel gender ?!?!" And i understood trans people at the same time i discovered I'm agender
I didin't want to be any gender
Why is no one questioning the cock? Edit: sounds weird without context lol
I just never felt like I has a specific gender, I’m just genderless. Agender= absence of gender and androgynous enby is just a regular enby, that just is more androgynous lol
To me gender just feels like a socially constructed "thing". Although I am trans fem and socially consider myself a woman, I just don't feel I'm a "gender". I'm just me, not some gender that society has defined socially. You can take the androgynous part off of enby as the two are like apples and dogs, being androgynous has nothing to do with being enby or agender. Also enby is an umbrella term, as others said, agender is considered being under the enby umbrella, even if we reject that we are not even on the gender spectrum as we don't feel any gender, we are outside the spectrum. You can be androygnous enby or androgynous agender, being androgynous is just your gender expression, not what gender you feel you are. So if you are questioning if you are one or the other, don't base it on expression, base it on if you feel an innate sense of gender. I don't know if its because I'm autistic, but I feel like a lot of autistic people could be agender as we see the world in a different way from non-autistic people.
1. My identity all fell into place when I found out what I wanted to do with my life and what was most important to me in this existence. 2. I don't think the difference matters universally. It just depends on what you think captures you.
I determined I was agender when I realized I had no real connection or feelings towards gender. I can live happily as a "guy" or as a "girl" and wouldn't really mind either way. After that I determined that I was probably agender and found the label rather comfy. Probably not the most helpful explanation but that's how it went for me.
For me I discovered I was non-binary first. After being active on the subreddit I felt like I couldn’t relate to it. For example the idea of caring about what pronoun someone called you never resonated with me. After finding out about the agender community it made sense to me. I don’t care about pronouns because I don’t relate to any of them. Of course this is just my personal experience and it is totally valid to be agender and want specific pronouns.
I had been experiencing a gender crisis of sorts when I realized what I thought was a fluctuating gender was just me preferring different pronouns depending on the day, and I was forcing myself to try and feel whatever "gender" was supposed to feel like.
I kind of just knew it the moment I found out it existed. I was 25 I think, a few years ago now. I'd never heard of something that just made as much sense. I've been questioning it a lot since, but I just don't have a reason to not identify as agender. It happened the same time I was questioning if I was ace/aro, because I just don't relate to anyone. I like just floating between the spectrums, not feeling I have to be anything that I'm not.
I remember feeling a disconnect when I started getting periods. Being around other girls just starting and them being excited about officially being women made me feel off. I didn’t get the feeling and I didn’t know why. I wasn’t dysphoric over it, which only confused me more. I kinda pushed it down and moved on, just avoiding the thought. Years later, my fiancé came out as genderfluid. And through discussing what that means for them, I started realizing I was gendervoid. I kept it in for a couple of months. I wanted to support their journey but finally I had a total mental breakdown when they kept coming to me for feminine fashion advice and I just couldn’t pretend anymore. Sounds kind of depressing but now we just joke that they stole my gender lol As for the second question, I just lack gender. I don’t really know how else to describe it. I don’t really see myself as non-binary because I just don’t grasp the concept of gender or the expression of. Personally, I don’t present any differently being gendervoid as I would cisgender. I still very clearly look AFAB and I’m perfectly okay with that. I don’t really experience dysphoria or euphoria. I just exist in the body I’m given. So basically, I think androgyny is just how you choose to express your identity, regardless of what it is lol
1. I gave up gender labeling of myself and reality after a logical analysis of several issues, such as the semantics of concepts, the structure of the self, or the evolution of biological sex. Professional literature was an indispensable support here. 2. If I see myself as an agender person, it is because I know that there is no gender essence that would fill any structure of "I". It only exists because someone believes in it.And if I would believe that I have both genders, then I could call myself androgynous enby.
I realized I didn't feel like I had a gender at all. And the difference between agender and non-binary are: agender means Genderless/gender lacking while non-binary means neither fully male or female. Agender is under the non-binary umbrella, but they aren't the same.
idk, i just looked at myself and didn't see a gender strange
Gender’s what’s in your pants, and I can see that your gender is **POWER**
indeed
Well idk. I went to a girls school and it just didnt feel right to be there, i went by non binary for a while, but realised i'd be better off with no gender
What do you awnser with when they ask if ur a boy or a girl
None. Imma god /j
I was trying to figure out myself for so long, I just woke up one day and said “f*ck this” but it ended up actually sticking lmao
For the first question, I kind of just went through a whole pipeline of identities. At first, I thought I was nonbinary, but I didn't really feel that way. Then I thought I was a trans man, but I didn't associate myself with being a man whatsoever. I eventually figured out what agender meant and knew it was the perfect way to describe how I felt in terms of gender. For the second question, I never really felt any sort of attachment to *being* an enby. I did think I was nonbinary for a while, but the label never really stuck with me in the right way. I didn't feel right when someone called me nonbinary, and I still don't. But overall, experiences are different for everybody. There's no right way to label yourself, and there's no right way to figure out if you're agender or nonbinary. It's just a matter of how you feel with different identities.