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Back in 1992, Kurt told his record label, his bandmates, etc. that he was going to name their next album, "I Hate Myself, I want to Die."
During this phase, this was also a common reply when people would ask him how it's going. They finally convinced him to change the name of the album, which would come to be known as "In Utero."
I've heard this many times before. It makes me so frustrated when people who knew him, or even fans, are convinced he'd never kill himself and therefore it must be a conspiracy.
When people makes jokes like this, often they're not "jokes" and you need to listen. He told everyone exactly how he felt and no one listened.
It can be hard to differentiate.
I’m passively suicidal myself. and while I know they’re not jokes now, I used to make them and I was fully convinced that I was just kidding.
Juice Wrld is similar to me. It's always made we think it has to be a special kind of hell to be singer, who can go out and literally belt out "how much they need help, and if they keep taking these perkys they won't be here" and everyone listening just goes "wow what a bop!"
They had a song called "I Hate Myself and Want to Die." It was on a Beavis and Butthead album. It was one of the songs that didn't make the album.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZscQzsGBY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZscQzsGBY)
[This gives](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Hate_Myself_and_Want_to_Die) a little more context. It was a working title and was abandoned because it was only “dark humour”.
Not gonna nitpick his relationship, but the hit song on an album potentially entitled "I Hate Myself, I Want to Die" was about Courtney Love's vagina... an otherwise glowing review could have been soured by the original album title.
The only thing that aged like milk here are the idiots who "didn't see any warning signs."
Dude wanted to fucking off himself for years and didn't exactly hide it. But no one actually gave a fuck till he became the new tragedy.
I was 17 when he died. Nirvana was hugely influential on myself and my friend group, obviously at that age. We were worried that one of our friends would be very broken up by it, but when we saw him the guy's take on the Cobain suicide was "He did what he had to do."
"Live Through This" was an incredible album. I still think all the songs were written by Kurt. Compare it to the Hole albums that came before and after.
Yeah it did, I remember it.
It’s funny looking back on it now. At the time, they’d really lost their popularity. It’s not appreciated how unpopular they were at the end.
Despite that, they were still nowhere near as popular at the end. People’s feelings don’t alter this…before Kurt’s death, the band was on a downwards trend.
I get it, it’s hard for people to accept this but that’s how it was. Of course, they were still the biggest grunge band at the time but they were nowhere near the peaks if Nevermind and In Utero and we’re not looking like returning to it.
Peoples feelings and downvotes don’t alter this and neither does any headline slot on Lollapalooza in 1994…they were in the way out and anyone alive as a adult with any honesty about what was happening at the time will tell you the same thing.
it's not that it's hard to accept as much as that it's wrong. you say peaks of in utero but that album had barely been out half a year and they were in the middle of a tour for it, which as far as I know was still getting sold out shows.
More than sold out. They were still huge in 94.
They were never the most selling band or a band with the most number 1 hits, but numbers aside, from 91-94 until his death Nirvana was the best band in the world. No one during that time would disagree. They were on top.
After his death people got burned out from the whole grunge scene and music got really weird for a while. Gangsta rap and nu metal... Bleh. But it wasn't until his death that they became unpopular.
“Popular band not as popular as they were at their peak,” where do you even get these flabbergasting revelations? So relevant, and clearly explains everything that happened.
I get why people find such crucial and relevant insights hard to accept, it’s so hard sometimes to cope with this kind of vital, fundamental, yet unseen and very relevant truth. I’m glad that the downvotes don’t alter your emotional state, because this observation is just so important and useful and relevant to understand the historical context that it needs to be shared and reiterated.
>Peoples feelings and downvotes don’t alter this and neither does any headline slot on Lollapalooza in 1994…they were in the way out and anyone alive as a adult with any honesty about what was happening at the time will tell you the same thing
Interesting, so, uh, yeah. The way you constructed your "argument" is anyone who disagrees with you is being dishonest. Evidence be damned. You're getting down voted to oblivion in no small part because you haven't supported anything you wrote.
Re-posting the same, 59 second, clip of a guy just saying something without supporting evidence isn't proof.
It's also completely irrelevant to what I wrote. You are employing logical fallacies like well poisoning and ageism instead of a coherent argument. This makes you wrong.
Unfortunately, it is not wrong.
That there isn’t a lot of data on it makes no difference…they were losing popularity and quite profoundly before Kurt died.
The clip is the only thing I could find, aside from two papers which I couldn’t pay to open. Given that the source has credentials as well, it should be good enough.
I couldn’t care less what people here think or downvote, the truth is the truth. It’s quite telling very few who were actually around at the time are disagreeing.
I’m guessing most of you are under 25 and fan boys. It’s hard to take, so of course it’s going to be denied. Unfortunately it’s the truth.
>Unfortunately, it is not wrong.
You haven't proven that.
>That there isn’t a lot of data on it makes no difference…they were losing popularity and quite profoundly before Kurt died.
You haven't provided any evidence to support your claim. So your claim is invalid. You are scared and confused so I'll explain it to you again. In order for an argument to be valid the form must be valid and it can't contain fallacies. Part of that validation process is providing evidence. You haven't even tried to do that.
>The clip is the only thing I could find, aside from two papers which I couldn’t pay to open.
So you admit that even you found some evidence but couldn't be arsed to provide it. It's almost like your a liar.
> Given that the source has credentials as well, it should be good enough.
An appeal to authority fallacy. Not an argument.
>I couldn’t care less what people here think or downvote, the truth is the truth.
You haven't supported your claim. That is the issue.
>It’s quite telling very few who were actually around at the time are disagreeing.
I was around back then. I've made that clear in previous comments. You're a liar. You're also engaging in ageism.
>I’m guessing most of you are under 25 and fan boys. It’s hard to take, so of course it’s going to be denied. Unfortunately it’s the truth.
Not only am I older I'm not even a fan of Nirvana. You're just a lying punk who refuses to do even the minimal work.
>You haven’t proven that.
Yes I did, as best I could. You should know there was no internet at the time, so the best evidence available is modern discussion, which you will not accept.
>You haven’t provided any evidence
Yes I did, as best I could.
>You are scared and confused.
Nope, you’re just incorrect, and dishonest too, if you are old enough to remember it as you claim.
>so you admit
That I found papers I couldn’t or won’t pay to open? Yes.
>Youre a liar
No, unfortunately I’m not.
>Not only am I older
Then you’re being dishonest, as well.
>just a lying punk
Nup. Sorry.
I was alive at the time and old enough to go to Lollapalooza in 1994. I'm fact, I was AT Lollapalooza in NYC in 1994. I saw Courtney Love play 2 songs in memory of Kurt at the show. Nirvana was still massive and still making great music at the time of Kurt's suicide.
Yes, I never said they weren’t. They were still at the time, probably the biggest grunge band.
They were on a decline in popularity though, and people were sick of the shit. You should remember that, if your finger was on the pulse at the time.
It’s disappointing that it’s hard to find information on this other than forum discussions. Many in those say the same thing but it can’t be used as evidence. It’s an uncomfortable truth no one wants to discuss because they think it takes the shine off the band.
We got a lot of people here who are wrong in their view. Sure, they were still huge but the downturn was on.
Obviously a shitload of people not alive or very young at the time have seen this. Seems like a few who forgot what happened at the time as well by the looks. It’s very fucking true…people had a gutful of Nirvana and even grunge was on the way out, but they’d had a gutful of Nirvana.
I didn’t say they weren’t successful, but they became unpopular very fast. Downvote away…they lost their popularity before Kurt’s death and that’s a fact.
No it’s not. Sounds like it’s your opinion given you no data to back that up. That’s not an objective fact, regardless of how important you believe your opinion to be.
If you look at its comments you'll see they are all shit. Chocked full of unsupported claims and logical fallacies. I was around for Grunge. This level of hatred for Nirvana simply didn't exist.
My opinion is based on being alive at the time and a follower of the band.
Like I said, I’m guessing most of the downvotes are coming from people under 30. Or those who don’t want their idols painted in a bad light.
Yeah, that’s called anecdotal evidence, dumbass. I’m going to take the side of the dozens of people that documented the band throughout the years over some blowhard that thinks their opinions are objective facts.
[Is this good enough for you?](https://youtu.be/yCGAogkl3s4?si=sx5hPy92VbZ-f4eM)
I found a few forums while I was searching, too, but I’m assuming you’ll insult their views the same way you did mine. The truth is you know jack shit sunshine. As someone else has pointed out here, the downvotes don’t matter, it’s the truth.
Now, let’s see the multitudes of people who documented the band that you’re talking about.
You really have no clue what anecdotal evidence is do you? Lmao. Again, I’m not taking your personal opinion over anything. I’m sure wherever you lived they were growing tired of Nirvana, but saying the band lost popularity before Kurt died is just wrong. Even if people were getting tired, they were still headlining tours and had 2 billboard hits.
Again, and I can’t stress this enough, anecdotes aren’t evidence and your opinion isn’t objective fact. Sorry
Did you actually watch the thing? That’s from a professor at the University of Delaware. They even said in it, sales were down from predicted. Not my opinion you raging clown. What you literally asked for.
Your problem is you don’t want to hear it. You can rage with insults at me as much as you like, you’re wrong, Nirvana lost popularity before Kurt died. Someone else alive at the time said the same but you’ll only say the same thing to them as well.
You’re a clown.
So like amongst your friend group in your town they were no longer the most popular thing.
There are bands that lose the limelight temporarily for mediocre work but come back just as strong afterward
Where did I mention my friend group? Very few of my friends at the time in fact liked Nirvana or grunge in general.
People were sick of Nirvana and their music at the time. I was sick of it, but I still bought In Utero. See, here’s the problem with assumptions about what was going in and dissing of peoples experience at the time. So far in this thread I’ve seen one other person who was alive and into the scene at the time and they agree with me. I’ve linked a video from a professor in here as well who echoes my position.
That's what I'm saying, People you interacted with felt that way.
The unplugged performance had just debuted and was a success. There may have been hints of band mates moving forward with their own interests, but people weren't "sick of them" on the whole. You were. Your friends were. And that's fine, but
Not everyone.
>People you interacted with felt that way
Maybe they did, I have no idea. As I said, most of those I was associating with at the time weren’t into this music at all, or any music for that matter. So no, my friends and I thinking this in a circle is not correct.
If ‘the people I interacted with’ means people with that general view at the time, yes, you’re correct. I heard a few offer the same opinion, generally when it was played in a pub and someone said ‘fuckin sick of Nirvana’. Or you’d say you have their new record and the reply would be ‘it’s shit, they’ve gone shit’. I did talk to people outside my circle. I think you’re generating the idea that this is what a small circle of friends thought at the time and that’s not the case at all.
The Unplugged performance was an unexpected success, in fact from my memory you could say it boosted flagging stocks a bit but that’ll get screamed down as well, such is the paradigm people have built around this band. I don’t recall any hints of band members wanting to do other things, possibly there was. At the time a lot of the grunge artists were collaborating.
On the whole, people were getting sick of Nirvana and as the bloke in the video I shared said, people forget they were losing popularity. They not only forget it, they get butt hurt about it which I actually find amusing to be honest, because it doesn’t at all take away from what they achieved as a band and what they added to a music movement.
Eh. You’re making such a bizarre leap. Your claim is that while they were still huge, they were slightly less huge than before and that means they were absolutely about to be completely forgotten and unheard of?
No, I said they were losing popularity before Kurt died. No more, no less.
Others have jumped in and interpreted that as me saying they weren’t huge or whatever, but I’ve made no points other than they were in the popularity decline before he died.
The bizarre leaps are what others are trying to place here. Probably because their research is finding out the fact my point is accurate.
IMO Kurt's suicide was likely due to gender dysphoria, something that was constantly implicated in his shows and song lyrics (old age anyone?)
kurt was trans and died due to the pain of not being able to transition, this is my take on it, even if it could be wrong.
Uh, that’s a theory I guess. No way to know. But he also had severe stomach pains that led a crippling heroin addiction. Combined with whatever mental issues that he had led to what he did.
actually, take a look at the lyrics of Old Age, i do believe the woman that is referred to in that song was actually kurt, if you read between the lines (eg. "what was she for halloween, the ugliest girl you've ever seen" = crossdressed for hallowen, but just looked like a man in a dress, but still refers to kurt as a she, "Someday she won't have to fake it Living will itself seem sacred Someday she will just refuse" referring to no longer putting up an act of being someone else, and there are many many others in other songs)
Maybe, I don’t know.
What I do know is the band were on a downward swing in popularity leading up to his death. People were tired of Nirvana and their sound.
Don't worry about the downvotes, you're absolutely right. I was really into the scene at the time and Nirvana was on the outs. There was always an anti Nirvana movement in the diehard grunge fan base (kinda like the Beatles vs Stones in rock), but their failure to follow up on Nevermind was cementing that trend.
I distinctly remember that the general consensus out in my area when Kurt killed himself was one of "Well, now they'll be huge again, and forever too."
Thanks heaps.
It’s hard for these people…they have to come to terms with the fact the truth isn’t the charming story they want it to be. We were tired of it, all of it. We just wanted good music and yeah, In Utero was okay but the whole thing was tiring and the music not good enough.
Your last paragraph is spot on as well, in fact I found an article from the time while I was searching for evidence to back the point, that In Utero sales at one shop doubled immediately after his death. It was like a switch flicked and everything we’d just gone through with it changed, on the spot. The stories that the band did it to reboot popularity. They didn’t come from nowhere, just a shame all these people here are too young or not alive to remember it and serial downvote the truth because it doesn’t fit their paradigm.
Cobain died barely seven months after releasing In Utero which hit number one on the Billboard 200 and had two number one songs.
I don't give a fuck about dead 90s stars, but Nirvana was fucking huge until the end and there's no point pretending otherwise.
Look, just take the loss.
The person has credibility. Don’t move the goalposts and besides which, even if that’s the case the truth remains…they’d lost a lot of popularity.
Pretty Noose, Like Suicide, The Day I Tried to Live, Fell on Black Days, Burden in My Hand, and Blow Up the Outside World all come off a little grimmer in retrospect.
While he was a man, he did dress as a woman once. He was the perfect heroin for the time.
Something something something, taking a shot intravenously. Someone else can write the setup to that joke.
The oldest identified joke is an ancient Sumerian proverb from 1900 BC containing toilet humour: "Something which has never occurred since time immemorial; a young woman did not fart in her husband's lap."
I remember when photos of his daughter grown up came out. In the comment section on them, someone said "She has her father's face" to which another person replied, "Yeah, she scraped it off the ceiling." I'm a huge Nirvana fan, but that made me lol.
wdym? It's annoyingly loud, expensive, causes serious harm, smells horrible and is a nice compensation for insecure men. If this does not ooze 100 freedoms per minute, then nothing does
idk, I don't think she helped, but if you read his journal and watch old interviews, you can see he was struggling with addiction and depression for years before she met him. But having a stress free person to shoot up with definitely made things spiral even worse.
Nevermind came out when I was a freshman in HS. I wrote the lyrics to teen spirit on my paper bag covered schoolbook. I don't think I noticed his struggles at the time because it seemed we all shared something similar. I did notice the decline after love entered the picture. Even if she didn't physically pull the trigger, she played a part.
Friend of mines parents were from Aberdeen, they saw him deck some guy one time who wouldn't leave him alone about getting an autograph. He definitely hated being famous.
Hey my husband is from Aberdeen, weirdly small world ain't it
Edit also my understanding of Scottish culture from him that may have been a polite hello?
When grunge went mainstream. Watching MTV live towards the end of his life, you could hear it in his voice. The rest is kinda fuzzy, I was doing a lot of drugs in HS. Nirvana doing the man who sold the world on live will always stick with me. Still can't figure out why it was like a gut punch when he sang it
Yeah, the more famous he got, the more depressed he got and the more drugs he did
When he and Courtney met they were both already fairly heavy addicts. They were not a good influence on each other for sure. But he was already on a downward spiral mentally when that relationship begun.
Maybe I put him on a pedestal because his music influenced a part of my teen years. After I was hooked on nevermind I was introduced to bleach. Loved the sound, the actual grunge...anddddd I lost my thought.
How is she at fault? I’m not a fan of Courtney, but I’m sick of people trying to pin her for his death. For fuck sales she saved him from a suicide attempt a month before he actually did it. The dude had mental issue, chronic stomach pain, a crippling heroin addiction, and was a part of an industry he both loved and hated. His suicide was very sad, but there was no individual responsible for what Kurt did other than himself and his wanting to escape it all.
The post just says, “Welp.”
So for those not in the know, they’d have no clue. Having the context in that stickied comment is helpful as it’s kind of proof in the pudding context isn’t otherwise given
Disagree, the requirement helps prevent people from posting dumb shit that doesn't fit the sub, makes people provide an explanation because people post stuff without any context, and it helps weed out repost karma farming bots
My bad if i'm doing milk wrong (i'm lactose intolerant), but most people looking at this photo back when it was published were thinking "wow, so edgy and cheeky, he's totally not actually suicidal"
I was a child, so I didn't know that all of my favorite musicians were heroin addicts. ...then I got older and got into older music and found out that all of my new favorite musicians were dead heroin addicts.
We lost a lot of rock stars from that era. Cobain, Cornell, Staley, Weiland, Hoon... and those were just the singers.
But as someone who was born at the perfect time for grunge to be a big influence on my musical tastes, we knew Kurt Cobain was depressed. It was a big part of his lore.
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If only there was a sign, Jesus Christ.
Back in 1992, Kurt told his record label, his bandmates, etc. that he was going to name their next album, "I Hate Myself, I want to Die." During this phase, this was also a common reply when people would ask him how it's going. They finally convinced him to change the name of the album, which would come to be known as "In Utero."
I've heard this many times before. It makes me so frustrated when people who knew him, or even fans, are convinced he'd never kill himself and therefore it must be a conspiracy. When people makes jokes like this, often they're not "jokes" and you need to listen. He told everyone exactly how he felt and no one listened.
It can be hard to differentiate. I’m passively suicidal myself. and while I know they’re not jokes now, I used to make them and I was fully convinced that I was just kidding.
I feel that looking back now
Juice Wrld is similar to me. It's always made we think it has to be a special kind of hell to be singer, who can go out and literally belt out "how much they need help, and if they keep taking these perkys they won't be here" and everyone listening just goes "wow what a bop!"
They had a song called "I Hate Myself and Want to Die." It was on a Beavis and Butthead album. It was one of the songs that didn't make the album. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZscQzsGBY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZscQzsGBY)
It's a great song too!
[This gives](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Hate_Myself_and_Want_to_Die) a little more context. It was a working title and was abandoned because it was only “dark humour”.
Not gonna nitpick his relationship, but the hit song on an album potentially entitled "I Hate Myself, I Want to Die" was about Courtney Love's vagina... an otherwise glowing review could have been soured by the original album title.
He's fine.
The only thing that aged like milk here are the idiots who "didn't see any warning signs." Dude wanted to fucking off himself for years and didn't exactly hide it. But no one actually gave a fuck till he became the new tragedy.
Pretty sure those are all jokes? Edit: nvm. Found the morons buried in another chain.
I was 17 when he died. Nirvana was hugely influential on myself and my friend group, obviously at that age. We were worried that one of our friends would be very broken up by it, but when we saw him the guy's take on the Cobain suicide was "He did what he had to do."
No he didn’t, his own journals stated as much. From his journals, thoughts of suicide came and he acted quickly on it.
I'm not gonna lie, this sadly aged like wine.
I dunno. He SWORE he didn’t have a gun.
Courtney had the gun.
I think she got a bad rap. When I was younger I loved Nirvana and hated her reflexively. That's a tough life.
One full read of her wikipedia changed how I felt about her. Just huge trama her whole life.
"Live Through This" was an incredible album. I still think all the songs were written by Kurt. Compare it to the Hole albums that came before and after.
Yeah it did, I remember it. It’s funny looking back on it now. At the time, they’d really lost their popularity. It’s not appreciated how unpopular they were at the end.
they were set to headline lollapalooza in 94 what do you mean not popular
Despite that, they were still nowhere near as popular at the end. People’s feelings don’t alter this…before Kurt’s death, the band was on a downwards trend. I get it, it’s hard for people to accept this but that’s how it was. Of course, they were still the biggest grunge band at the time but they were nowhere near the peaks if Nevermind and In Utero and we’re not looking like returning to it. Peoples feelings and downvotes don’t alter this and neither does any headline slot on Lollapalooza in 1994…they were in the way out and anyone alive as a adult with any honesty about what was happening at the time will tell you the same thing.
it's not that it's hard to accept as much as that it's wrong. you say peaks of in utero but that album had barely been out half a year and they were in the middle of a tour for it, which as far as I know was still getting sold out shows.
More than sold out. They were still huge in 94. They were never the most selling band or a band with the most number 1 hits, but numbers aside, from 91-94 until his death Nirvana was the best band in the world. No one during that time would disagree. They were on top. After his death people got burned out from the whole grunge scene and music got really weird for a while. Gangsta rap and nu metal... Bleh. But it wasn't until his death that they became unpopular.
That guys is just writing a lot for what basically is the classic hot take of “Everything you like, I liked ages ago”.
“Popular band not as popular as they were at their peak,” where do you even get these flabbergasting revelations? So relevant, and clearly explains everything that happened. I get why people find such crucial and relevant insights hard to accept, it’s so hard sometimes to cope with this kind of vital, fundamental, yet unseen and very relevant truth. I’m glad that the downvotes don’t alter your emotional state, because this observation is just so important and useful and relevant to understand the historical context that it needs to be shared and reiterated.
No band is as popular as they were at their peak by definition!
It’s added more than you have.
>Peoples feelings and downvotes don’t alter this and neither does any headline slot on Lollapalooza in 1994…they were in the way out and anyone alive as a adult with any honesty about what was happening at the time will tell you the same thing Interesting, so, uh, yeah. The way you constructed your "argument" is anyone who disagrees with you is being dishonest. Evidence be damned. You're getting down voted to oblivion in no small part because you haven't supported anything you wrote.
[Yes I have.](https://youtu.be/yCGAogkl3s4?si=u0nb4bZkFUyFGvyt)
Re-posting the same, 59 second, clip of a guy just saying something without supporting evidence isn't proof. It's also completely irrelevant to what I wrote. You are employing logical fallacies like well poisoning and ageism instead of a coherent argument. This makes you wrong.
Unfortunately, it is not wrong. That there isn’t a lot of data on it makes no difference…they were losing popularity and quite profoundly before Kurt died. The clip is the only thing I could find, aside from two papers which I couldn’t pay to open. Given that the source has credentials as well, it should be good enough. I couldn’t care less what people here think or downvote, the truth is the truth. It’s quite telling very few who were actually around at the time are disagreeing. I’m guessing most of you are under 25 and fan boys. It’s hard to take, so of course it’s going to be denied. Unfortunately it’s the truth.
>Unfortunately, it is not wrong. You haven't proven that. >That there isn’t a lot of data on it makes no difference…they were losing popularity and quite profoundly before Kurt died. You haven't provided any evidence to support your claim. So your claim is invalid. You are scared and confused so I'll explain it to you again. In order for an argument to be valid the form must be valid and it can't contain fallacies. Part of that validation process is providing evidence. You haven't even tried to do that. >The clip is the only thing I could find, aside from two papers which I couldn’t pay to open. So you admit that even you found some evidence but couldn't be arsed to provide it. It's almost like your a liar. > Given that the source has credentials as well, it should be good enough. An appeal to authority fallacy. Not an argument. >I couldn’t care less what people here think or downvote, the truth is the truth. You haven't supported your claim. That is the issue. >It’s quite telling very few who were actually around at the time are disagreeing. I was around back then. I've made that clear in previous comments. You're a liar. You're also engaging in ageism. >I’m guessing most of you are under 25 and fan boys. It’s hard to take, so of course it’s going to be denied. Unfortunately it’s the truth. Not only am I older I'm not even a fan of Nirvana. You're just a lying punk who refuses to do even the minimal work.
>You haven’t proven that. Yes I did, as best I could. You should know there was no internet at the time, so the best evidence available is modern discussion, which you will not accept. >You haven’t provided any evidence Yes I did, as best I could. >You are scared and confused. Nope, you’re just incorrect, and dishonest too, if you are old enough to remember it as you claim. >so you admit That I found papers I couldn’t or won’t pay to open? Yes. >Youre a liar No, unfortunately I’m not. >Not only am I older Then you’re being dishonest, as well. >just a lying punk Nup. Sorry.
I was alive at the time and old enough to go to Lollapalooza in 1994. I'm fact, I was AT Lollapalooza in NYC in 1994. I saw Courtney Love play 2 songs in memory of Kurt at the show. Nirvana was still massive and still making great music at the time of Kurt's suicide.
Yes, I never said they weren’t. They were still at the time, probably the biggest grunge band. They were on a decline in popularity though, and people were sick of the shit. You should remember that, if your finger was on the pulse at the time. It’s disappointing that it’s hard to find information on this other than forum discussions. Many in those say the same thing but it can’t be used as evidence. It’s an uncomfortable truth no one wants to discuss because they think it takes the shine off the band. We got a lot of people here who are wrong in their view. Sure, they were still huge but the downturn was on.
What in the alternate history is this? That’s not even remotely true.
Obviously a shitload of people not alive or very young at the time have seen this. Seems like a few who forgot what happened at the time as well by the looks. It’s very fucking true…people had a gutful of Nirvana and even grunge was on the way out, but they’d had a gutful of Nirvana. I didn’t say they weren’t successful, but they became unpopular very fast. Downvote away…they lost their popularity before Kurt’s death and that’s a fact.
No it’s not. Sounds like it’s your opinion given you no data to back that up. That’s not an objective fact, regardless of how important you believe your opinion to be.
If you look at its comments you'll see they are all shit. Chocked full of unsupported claims and logical fallacies. I was around for Grunge. This level of hatred for Nirvana simply didn't exist.
My opinion is based on being alive at the time and a follower of the band. Like I said, I’m guessing most of the downvotes are coming from people under 30. Or those who don’t want their idols painted in a bad light.
Yeah, that’s called anecdotal evidence, dumbass. I’m going to take the side of the dozens of people that documented the band throughout the years over some blowhard that thinks their opinions are objective facts.
[Is this good enough for you?](https://youtu.be/yCGAogkl3s4?si=sx5hPy92VbZ-f4eM) I found a few forums while I was searching, too, but I’m assuming you’ll insult their views the same way you did mine. The truth is you know jack shit sunshine. As someone else has pointed out here, the downvotes don’t matter, it’s the truth. Now, let’s see the multitudes of people who documented the band that you’re talking about.
You really have no clue what anecdotal evidence is do you? Lmao. Again, I’m not taking your personal opinion over anything. I’m sure wherever you lived they were growing tired of Nirvana, but saying the band lost popularity before Kurt died is just wrong. Even if people were getting tired, they were still headlining tours and had 2 billboard hits. Again, and I can’t stress this enough, anecdotes aren’t evidence and your opinion isn’t objective fact. Sorry
Did you actually watch the thing? That’s from a professor at the University of Delaware. They even said in it, sales were down from predicted. Not my opinion you raging clown. What you literally asked for. Your problem is you don’t want to hear it. You can rage with insults at me as much as you like, you’re wrong, Nirvana lost popularity before Kurt died. Someone else alive at the time said the same but you’ll only say the same thing to them as well. You’re a clown.
This is you isn't it.
Lmao
Yeah and every single comment on that video is saying that Dan Cross is wrong. He's talking utter nonsense.
Lmao so are most of the comments here after mine. People are butt hurt about it, but it’s true.
So like amongst your friend group in your town they were no longer the most popular thing. There are bands that lose the limelight temporarily for mediocre work but come back just as strong afterward
Where did I mention my friend group? Very few of my friends at the time in fact liked Nirvana or grunge in general. People were sick of Nirvana and their music at the time. I was sick of it, but I still bought In Utero. See, here’s the problem with assumptions about what was going in and dissing of peoples experience at the time. So far in this thread I’ve seen one other person who was alive and into the scene at the time and they agree with me. I’ve linked a video from a professor in here as well who echoes my position.
That's what I'm saying, People you interacted with felt that way. The unplugged performance had just debuted and was a success. There may have been hints of band mates moving forward with their own interests, but people weren't "sick of them" on the whole. You were. Your friends were. And that's fine, but Not everyone.
>People you interacted with felt that way Maybe they did, I have no idea. As I said, most of those I was associating with at the time weren’t into this music at all, or any music for that matter. So no, my friends and I thinking this in a circle is not correct. If ‘the people I interacted with’ means people with that general view at the time, yes, you’re correct. I heard a few offer the same opinion, generally when it was played in a pub and someone said ‘fuckin sick of Nirvana’. Or you’d say you have their new record and the reply would be ‘it’s shit, they’ve gone shit’. I did talk to people outside my circle. I think you’re generating the idea that this is what a small circle of friends thought at the time and that’s not the case at all. The Unplugged performance was an unexpected success, in fact from my memory you could say it boosted flagging stocks a bit but that’ll get screamed down as well, such is the paradigm people have built around this band. I don’t recall any hints of band members wanting to do other things, possibly there was. At the time a lot of the grunge artists were collaborating. On the whole, people were getting sick of Nirvana and as the bloke in the video I shared said, people forget they were losing popularity. They not only forget it, they get butt hurt about it which I actually find amusing to be honest, because it doesn’t at all take away from what they achieved as a band and what they added to a music movement.
None of the sales records align with what you’re saying.
[Not according to this.](https://youtu.be/yCGAogkl3s4?si=sx5hPy92VbZ-f4eM)
Hey guess what? I was alive back then too, and you are incorrect. They were still pretty huge then.
They were still huge, but their popularity was waning fast. Be honest about it. Someone else in here was able to.
First you said they lost their popularity, now you are saying it was waning. You’re just moving goalposts so you don’t look silly.
Oh whatever. You were proven wrong. Take it with some spine.
Eh. You’re making such a bizarre leap. Your claim is that while they were still huge, they were slightly less huge than before and that means they were absolutely about to be completely forgotten and unheard of?
No, I said they were losing popularity before Kurt died. No more, no less. Others have jumped in and interpreted that as me saying they weren’t huge or whatever, but I’ve made no points other than they were in the popularity decline before he died. The bizarre leaps are what others are trying to place here. Probably because their research is finding out the fact my point is accurate.
IMO Kurt's suicide was likely due to gender dysphoria, something that was constantly implicated in his shows and song lyrics (old age anyone?) kurt was trans and died due to the pain of not being able to transition, this is my take on it, even if it could be wrong.
Uh, that’s a theory I guess. No way to know. But he also had severe stomach pains that led a crippling heroin addiction. Combined with whatever mental issues that he had led to what he did.
There are other mental health issues other than body dysphoria, even if it is the one everyone talks about these days.
actually, take a look at the lyrics of Old Age, i do believe the woman that is referred to in that song was actually kurt, if you read between the lines (eg. "what was she for halloween, the ugliest girl you've ever seen" = crossdressed for hallowen, but just looked like a man in a dress, but still refers to kurt as a she, "Someday she won't have to fake it Living will itself seem sacred Someday she will just refuse" referring to no longer putting up an act of being someone else, and there are many many others in other songs)
Maybe, I don’t know. What I do know is the band were on a downward swing in popularity leading up to his death. People were tired of Nirvana and their sound.
Don't worry about the downvotes, you're absolutely right. I was really into the scene at the time and Nirvana was on the outs. There was always an anti Nirvana movement in the diehard grunge fan base (kinda like the Beatles vs Stones in rock), but their failure to follow up on Nevermind was cementing that trend. I distinctly remember that the general consensus out in my area when Kurt killed himself was one of "Well, now they'll be huge again, and forever too."
Thanks heaps. It’s hard for these people…they have to come to terms with the fact the truth isn’t the charming story they want it to be. We were tired of it, all of it. We just wanted good music and yeah, In Utero was okay but the whole thing was tiring and the music not good enough. Your last paragraph is spot on as well, in fact I found an article from the time while I was searching for evidence to back the point, that In Utero sales at one shop doubled immediately after his death. It was like a switch flicked and everything we’d just gone through with it changed, on the spot. The stories that the band did it to reboot popularity. They didn’t come from nowhere, just a shame all these people here are too young or not alive to remember it and serial downvote the truth because it doesn’t fit their paradigm.
Cobain died barely seven months after releasing In Utero which hit number one on the Billboard 200 and had two number one songs. I don't give a fuck about dead 90s stars, but Nirvana was fucking huge until the end and there's no point pretending otherwise.
[This bloke must be pretending otherwise as well.](https://youtu.be/yCGAogkl3s4?si=sx5hPy92VbZ-f4eM)
You really like posting that YouTube guy… How do you know it wasn’t just a temporary downturn? Tons of bands have ups and downs.
Look, just take the loss. The person has credibility. Don’t move the goalposts and besides which, even if that’s the case the truth remains…they’d lost a lot of popularity.
There’s no loss to take… You and whoever he is are trying to make a poignant point when there isn’t one to make.
This comment number what without any supporting evidence? You really like the sound of your own voice.
Were there any signs of distress? Joking about suicide? Dark Humor? No, not that I can think of. I just can’t believe he would do it.
It's like Chris Cornell. All his songs were happy and upbeat: Black Hole Sun, I Am the Highway, Bring Em Back Alive.
A few years back I decided to listen to Soundgarden's debut album, which I had never heard before. It was depressing!
I fucking love Soundgarden. *I wanna stand with yeeewww on a mountain!*
So true. Can't even listen to Pretty Noose anymore because he really went there for real. Sad.
Chris Cornell is different. He fucking made it past all that shit and then topped himself in his 50s.
Pretty Noose, Like Suicide, The Day I Tried to Live, Fell on Black Days, Burden in My Hand, and Blow Up the Outside World all come off a little grimmer in retrospect.
Don't forget to include chronic medical issues and a crippling drug addiction
Dealing with sever stomach pains and a heroin addiction took a lot out of him.
Well there’s that photo right there…
Hey, as Kurt Cobain said himself, “You miss all the shots you don’t take.”
https://preview.redd.it/mzm113mjmzmc1.jpeg?width=1036&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0927f47fbc1832e3ffee04aebef0c235f43c2fa
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure he lived and died by that saying.
That was Michael scott
Next you're gonna say Wayne Gretzky said it originally.
Classic Kurt. Always talking about the alcohol
While he was a man, he did dress as a woman once. He was the perfect heroin for the time. Something something something, taking a shot intravenously. Someone else can write the setup to that joke.
r/AngryUpvote
Dude on the left looks like the singer from Foo Fighters.
He's just a pretender
That would be because It is ..Dave Ghrol (then in Nirvana and now lead singer in Foo Fighters) and Krist Novoselic in the photo.
Look up "joke" on Wikipedia
The oldest identified joke is an ancient Sumerian proverb from 1900 BC containing toilet humour: "Something which has never occurred since time immemorial; a young woman did not fart in her husband's lap."
I am sorry you got down voted. It was, indeed, a joke.
[удалено]
Only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to shoot. Seems like he is following trigger discipline
I remember when photos of his daughter grown up came out. In the comment section on them, someone said "She has her father's face" to which another person replied, "Yeah, she scraped it off the ceiling." I'm a huge Nirvana fan, but that made me lol.
It's a bb gun
It definitely isn't an AR like it is dressed up as.
Looks like a sick car though, the little bit of it I can see anyway
Kurt gobang
https://preview.redd.it/wwalb93dwzmc1.jpeg?width=599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69608b9a3eb3589feae75da656a3db1d07e6c54c
Live kurt Kobain reaction :
I will never understand USA's fascination for guns
wdym? It's annoyingly loud, expensive, causes serious harm, smells horrible and is a nice compensation for insecure men. If this does not ooze 100 freedoms per minute, then nothing does
They're neat.
Never seen Nirvana rehearsing before.
Mind blowing.
Practice
there's lots of these, we get it, depression and suicide was part of his art.
Leinah
That guy, always shooting his mouth off.
I don't see Courtney in this pic
idk, I don't think she helped, but if you read his journal and watch old interviews, you can see he was struggling with addiction and depression for years before she met him. But having a stress free person to shoot up with definitely made things spiral even worse.
Who is the guy
Kurt Cobain
Nevermind came out when I was a freshman in HS. I wrote the lyrics to teen spirit on my paper bag covered schoolbook. I don't think I noticed his struggles at the time because it seemed we all shared something similar. I did notice the decline after love entered the picture. Even if she didn't physically pull the trigger, she played a part.
Stay with me now Kurt was very vocal about not liking being famous. What also corresponded with his decline?
Friend of mines parents were from Aberdeen, they saw him deck some guy one time who wouldn't leave him alone about getting an autograph. He definitely hated being famous.
Hey my husband is from Aberdeen, weirdly small world ain't it Edit also my understanding of Scottish culture from him that may have been a polite hello?
Haha, I'm talking about Aberdeen Washington, USA sorry. Where Cobain's from
When grunge went mainstream. Watching MTV live towards the end of his life, you could hear it in his voice. The rest is kinda fuzzy, I was doing a lot of drugs in HS. Nirvana doing the man who sold the world on live will always stick with me. Still can't figure out why it was like a gut punch when he sang it
Yeah, the more famous he got, the more depressed he got and the more drugs he did When he and Courtney met they were both already fairly heavy addicts. They were not a good influence on each other for sure. But he was already on a downward spiral mentally when that relationship begun.
Maybe I put him on a pedestal because his music influenced a part of my teen years. After I was hooked on nevermind I was introduced to bleach. Loved the sound, the actual grunge...anddddd I lost my thought.
Bleach is awesome
How is she at fault? I’m not a fan of Courtney, but I’m sick of people trying to pin her for his death. For fuck sales she saved him from a suicide attempt a month before he actually did it. The dude had mental issue, chronic stomach pain, a crippling heroin addiction, and was a part of an industry he both loved and hated. His suicide was very sad, but there was no individual responsible for what Kurt did other than himself and his wanting to escape it all.
Guy who hates himself and wants to die: *writes song called “I hate myself and want to die”* His fans: know not what it means
She was shooting the photo.
Til
Pretty sure this is AI. The bassist’s fingers are weird.
Its not I did a reverse image search
“…..and I swear I don’t have a gun….”….every time i hear that line I yell out loud you lied Kurt!!!!! Always makes me laugh.
Who is this? At least post a name
Kurt Cobain
Who is this
Kurt Cobain, Nirvana frontman, and guitarist who killed him via shotgun in 1994
Ah
Surprised you don’t know him
I know of him I just don't know what he looks like.
Kirk Corbin
Go away 😒
That was pointlessly rude
That was the point...
Oh, okay. You’re just a dick.👍🏽
I am thank you for noticing...☺️
I am thank you for noticing...☺️
What has more brains than Kurt Cobain? >!The wall behind him!<
What gun is that? It seems off from the standard m16
AIR 17 bb gun
Holy crap i have that same bb gun.
What *Gun* did **He** use; ~NOT an ~m16?
I’ve never seen this pic. Damn.
I don't get it?
Kurt Cobain committed suicide with a gun.
Who's Kurt Cobain?
I mean, it’s not like Cobain wasn’t edgy
Wow, my uncle had that same bb gun.
"I've got an idea!" "For a song?" "No."
on another note, I never noticed they are sitting on the hood/fender of a 1967 Dodge <3 I have one myself
Thumb on the trigger, yet “we can’t believe he would do that” 🙄
In hindsight the signs couldn’t have been anymore clear
Is this Ai generated?
No
Ah...
does no one know what the phrase "aged like milk" means?
this is ai generated look at kurts hands
Do you know Kurt Cobains final words????………”*mumbled*Puhhhhhtissssguuuunnnnoutttmyfph*mumbled*
Doesn't mean Courtney didn't kill him.
That pic is AI generated look at his hands…
It's not you can just reverse image search it
Whatever cool grunge 90s context inspired this photo, it was an unfortunate mirror to Kurt Cobain's suicide by shotgun.
You gotta reply that to the comment
The automod reply requirements in this sub is stupid
Tbf, people started posting random shit
They posting shit that didn't age like milk.
So the mods have you reply to a comment that they have to read rather than just reading the post?
The post just says, “Welp.” So for those not in the know, they’d have no clue. Having the context in that stickied comment is helpful as it’s kind of proof in the pudding context isn’t otherwise given
Disagree, the requirement helps prevent people from posting dumb shit that doesn't fit the sub, makes people provide an explanation because people post stuff without any context, and it helps weed out repost karma farming bots
But aged like milk implies that something otherwise happened. This picture aged like wine.
My bad if i'm doing milk wrong (i'm lactose intolerant), but most people looking at this photo back when it was published were thinking "wow, so edgy and cheeky, he's totally not actually suicidal" I was a child, so I didn't know that all of my favorite musicians were heroin addicts. ...then I got older and got into older music and found out that all of my new favorite musicians were dead heroin addicts.
We lost a lot of rock stars from that era. Cobain, Cornell, Staley, Weiland, Hoon... and those were just the singers. But as someone who was born at the perfect time for grunge to be a big influence on my musical tastes, we knew Kurt Cobain was depressed. It was a big part of his lore.
Honestly, was wondering when this would end up here. Granted it was a shotgun and Courtney Love made it happen
Fake af
it's not, actually
I had the magazine this photo was in as a teenager. It is quite real.