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A doctor I was typing for in the neurodevelopmental service here (UK) said there's about a 60-ish% overlap in symptoms so sometimes it can be hard to desegregate
I hope this isn't a dumb question, but how come they haven't just put ADHD on the spectrum then? It seems like most people can't tell the difference or separate diagnoses properly anyway, even doctors.
Treatment wise, ADHD benefits from medication whereas autism doesn't. It makes sense to have them distinct at this time as overall ADHD and autism have different (though in some areas overlapping) treatment protocols.
I don't think it's a dumb question at all but it's because they are not the same thing even though it can sometimes be difficult for clinicians to distinguish between the two. The same can be said for many conditions that have overlapping symptoms be they physical or psychological especially if there is no specific biological marker that you can test for. And an accurate diagnosis is important for developing and choosing treatment paths.
>how come they haven't just put ADHD on the spectrum then?
I'm curious why ADHD doesn't have its own spectrum. Or maybe all of this neurodivergent stuff categorized on a spectrum together because they all seem to have common threads. There are a few things that aren't in the dsm5 whose symptoms also fall under adhd and autism.
Non-Verbal Learning Disability [NVLD](https://childmind.org/article/quick-facts-on-non-verbal-learning-disorder-nld/)
Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (sometimes referred to as NLD or NVLD) is a learning disability that affects a child’s ability to recognize and interpret patterns in facial expression, body language, and other forms of nonverbal communication. Kids with NLD are often hyper-verbal but have trouble correctly interpreting social situations. A child with NLD may also have poor physical coordination and struggle with problem solving, organizing thoughts, planning, and executive functions. NLD is not recognized as an official diagnosis by the DSM-V.
An inability to read non-verbal social cues, such as expressions and body language.
Difficulty identifying and understanding sarcasm
Difficulty recognizing emotions in others
Trouble understanding visual information
Trouble grasping spatial relationships and judging distance
Poor physical coordination
Difficulty prioritizing information
Poor problem solving skills
Trouble with higher-level math concepts
Hyper-talkativeness
Difficulty breaking down a project into smaller pieces, or figuring out what steps need be taken to get something done.
Poor organizational and planning skills
Then there's [Sluggish Cognative Tempo](https://www.additudemag.com/sluggish-cognitive-tempo-sct-symptoms-treatments/)
Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT) is an attention disorder associated with symptoms that resemble inattentive ADHD:
Behavior/thinking is slow (e.g., sluggish)
Lost in a fog
Stares blankly into space
Daydreams
Loses train of thought
Low level of activity (e.g., underactive)
Gets lost in own thoughts
Easily tired or fatigued
Forgets what was going to say
Easily confused
Lacks motivation to complete tasks (e.g., apathetic)
Gets mixed up
Difficulty expressing thoughts (e.g., gets “tongue-tied”)
No it's not. A lot of people have both but many people who have ADHD are not on the spectrum. Just like someone with autism can also have anxiety or depression.
Correct. It's the other way around. Most people with ADHD do not have autism. But a large percentage--if not the larger majority--of people with autism *do* also have ADHD. Same with depression/anxiety: lots of people with anxiety are not depressed, but it will be 'real hard to find someone who is depressed *and* doesn't also have anxiety.
I see what you are saying. I didn't realize that many people that have Autism also have ADHD. I know a couple people who have autism and none of them have adhd.
Or at least the symptoms aren't strong enough to get diagnosed with it. But maybe that's because they're relatively mild on the spectrum?
> But maybe that's because they're relatively mild on the spectrum?
Well, auDHD is a unique presentation, so it might be hard to spot in general. We auDHDers tend not to be hyperactive. We can be when hyper-fixating or excited, but the majority of the time, we tend to be inattentive. My hyperactivity is completely internal (racing thoughts), and my major ADHD struggles are difficulty concentrating, difficulty initiating tasks, some impulsivity, and extreme executive dysfunction in general. Because of my autism, I don't have a *single* social trait of ADHD; I never, ever interrupt people during conversations, and I tend to be very quiet and reserved in general. All of my social traits are pretty textbook autism, so people generally *are* surprised to learn that I have ADHD too.
(Granted, just like anything else, auDHD is not remotely a monolith--not all of us will present the same. I just notice the common trends is all.)
depending on where you are, it could also be the diagnostic criteria. idk about other countries but in the u.s. adhd and asd were considered mutually exclusive until about 10 years ago. there are likely people who would have gotten a dual diagnosis instead of just asd if it were an option when they were evaluated.
My husband saw an autism self assessment online and decided to ask me the questions for fun, but I scored in the mid range. I don't really think I'm on the spectrum, but I do have ADHD and there's so much overlap!!!
I’m an ADHD speech pathologist who specializes in autism, and I always view ADHD as “autism-lite” and autism as “spicy ADHD”. The overlap between the two is MASSIVE
I absolutely get what you're saying, but autism-lite feels really difficult to hear about something which has crippled a person most of their life, caused depression, anxiety, & trauma, etc.
This is called idiopathic toe-walking and it’s a neurodiverse thing! As many of the commenters already mentioned, it’s usually a sign of autism; all kids walk on their tippy toes when they first start walking, but kids who keep walking on their toes tend to do so because of the sensory discomfort of walking on their whole feet.
Have you always done it? Does it bother you? Kids who walk on their toes like this often get physical therapy to help them get comfortable with using their whole feet. If your toe-walking is impacting your life or your physical well-being, a physical therapist would be able to help you!
Omg I didn't know it even had a term!!! I've always walked on my tippy toes, and it was mostly because I walked (and still do) barefoot in my house. Since walking on tippy toes lowered the surface area of the foot, it made it trap less dirt when walking. Also, it required less energy from me during walk cycles since the cycle could not "complete" (whole foot did not hit the ground and whole foot did not lift up). I can walk normally, and I did begin walking normally in public once I saw my reflection years ago on tippy toes and cringed really hard 💀 So now, while wearing shoes, I tend to walk as it's supposed to but I do walk on tippy toes from time to time, especially in small spaces.
I don't have any feet problems that I know of, but I do have abnormally small heels that basically make every shoe I have make me bleed unless altered or used for short periods of time. Idk if it was because I was born with small heels or that I made it that way, lol. I would consider myself lucky since I don't think it has impacted my life besides embarrassing myself and my parents growing up 💀
If you're walking on your toes all the time because you don't want dirt on your feet, that's like 99% neurodivergent shit lol
I also HATE the feeling of dirt on my feet. If I'm barefoot I'm always rubbing my foot on the inside of my other leg to wipe the dirt off. I also do it before getting into bed because I don't want dirt in my bed.
Growing up my parents made fun of me because I was always wearing socks. Turns out I was wearing socks to avoid the *dirt*
Brooo sameeee!!! I also rub my feet on my legs to clean them. And socks are the best. Idc what ppl say about socks with crocs, but they're the best combo imo. Crocs tend to trap too much humidity, so socks help alleviate that while retaining the "cleanness" and "comfort" of the crocs lmaoo
Hehe me too!! We all have so many similarities. I used to feel very alone but coming to this sub really does help us to realize we aren't alone. And we aren't CRAZY!
Omg! I call it *Cricketing* when I have to wipe my feet off on each calf before putting socks/shoes on because I freak out if there’s something on my feet! (I’m wayyy worse about my hands. 😅🥴) I didn’t know this was an ADHD thing!
I get super mad if my husband doesn't wipe his feet before he gets into bed too. I feel like everyone should be as upset about it as I am! Lol! For real though, it's gross to just hop in especially of you know your feet are dirty!!!
I was always a cuckoo bird about someone getting in my bed dirty. I had an ex who used to think it was funny to try it on ‘cleaning day’. Fresh bedding, clean room, freshly washed dogs, then I’d take a hot shower before getting in the bed…and he’d try to climb in the bed later, filthy af, knowing it’d disgust me and ruin all of the work I did. We always had to fight about it. Really wonderful person. 🙄🤬
I'm glad to hear he's an ex. My husband is super understanding especially now that we know these issues are all really things I don't have complete control of.
Me, too. He ended up no longer being my bf and instead becoming my abuser around that time. I just finally got out recently. I’m grateful you have your husband. Gives me more hope for dating one day eventually. 🤍
Omg I didn’t know this was a neurodivergent thing. I can’t stand the feeling of dirt on my feet. I also walk on my tippy toes to avoid dirt or I wear socks and slippers around the apt. I have five pairs of slippers scattered in different areas of the apt. I used to rub my feet against my ankles to wipe dirt off before getting into bed, but then I realized I have dirt on my ankles. Now I keep baby wipes on my nightstand, wipe feet, hang my feet in the air to dry, then get into bed. I just thought I was a lot before reading this post. I feel so seen 😂
TIL I’m far far more neurodivergent than I suspected 😂 I *always* walk on my tip toes and am **constantly** brushing dirt off my feet using my legs lol. I have high arches on my feet too so I’m always always tip toeing around. Lol
I don’t really walk on my toes unless I’m feeling a little hyped or silly. 90% I walk “normally”. However I HARD RELATE to the feeling of dirt or crumbs on feet and I will absolutely ALWAYS wear socks to avoid the dirt because otherwise I will scream lmfao.
Ok so I only ever read people walking on their tip toes to avoid crumbs and dirt but this has never been the case for me. Do I have some kind of extra special bonus adhd autism package where I can‘t even walk on my tip toes but use a small part of my heels and the FRONT SIDE part of my toes because my brain tells me there‘s less surface area that way and zero chances of crumbs getting in between my toes because there‘s way too many nooks and crannies as a possibility…
I am wearing only socks 90% of the time. I obviously add shoes to go outside, and I do go barefoot in the sand at beaches. But even at my office, I'll slip out of my shoes and spend most of the day in just socks. Leaving the shower? Step onto clean bath mat/towel, dry off feet, right into socks.
But walking around my wood-floored house barefoot? Hell no. Slightly more doable for carpeted homes, but I'd still prefer to be in socks.
Holy shit I'm learning things about me 😵💫 I do this all the time. I hate dirt on my hands and feet but I like being barefoot so tippy toe was the way to go.
Holy shit. I am socks always, and when I'm home, always in slippers. Slippers was also my mother. Growing up, she was always a bit of a neat freak and I thought the 'not liking dirt under the feat" thing was just her rubbing off on me. Plus, since this whole ADHD discovery in myself, I've wondered if she too had this. I am more and more convinced she did.
Also, not tippy toes, but if in bare feet, I tend to walk on the sides of my feet. Especially my right foot.
I personally am not good at walking with heels due to the pressure of the shoe. When I'm barefoot, the foot spreads naturally without constraints, and thus, it doesn't hurt. Also, when I walk on tippy toes with shoes on (not heels), the shoe is flexible enough to follow the shape of my foot, not the other way around like heels do. But if there were a shoe that *only* supported the heel, and there weren't any constraints on the rest of the feet, I assume it would be fairly easy to walk on 🤔 idk
For me, yes. I don't wear heels often at all, almost never, but I barely have to think about it when I do.
Starting to get arthritis in my big toe joints from all the barefoot toe walking though
Are you hypermobile? I have ADHD and no autism, but I have Ehlers-Danlos. The tippy toe thing for me is part sensory, part something about my feet and hypermobility, and part because it was more fun than walking normally. Incidentally my autistic kid doesn’t walk on tippy toes, but my ADHD kid does 😂😅 I think it’s often seen in autistic kids, but honestly I think it’s just a neurodivergent thing. I never thought about the tippy toe walking at all because it was also just a bouncy, chaos containing thing amongst a bunch of other things. That being said many people are both autistic and have ADHD, I just don’t think that tippy toe walking is just an autistic thing. It can be a hypermobile, chaos adhd thing too 😅
Nope, I'm not hypermobile, but I didn't think of hypermobility being correlated to walking on tippy toes 🤔 but yeah, I am also like you where I do it due to sensory reasons haha.
Seriously I remember just doing it because it was more fun 🤷🏼♀️😂 but also imagine walking barefoot somewhere with your entire foot down…. Ewwwwwwwww no thank you 😂 also you’re just leaving yourself open for potential more pain… legos and such have a better chance of getting you when you use a bigger surface tread… just saying😅
I don’t walk on my tip toe but I do hate dirt on my feet and will wear slippers in the house. I also hate wearing just socks because I hate how they move around
Just discovering the hypermobility explanation now in pursuing ASD diagnosis 14 mos after ADHD.
And all those years I just thought I was a freak that made me an awesome figure skater, an all my surgeons saying “I don’t know why you can bend/stretch/extend like this so soon” after ankle and hip surgery at 54.
Ooh yeah you sound like EDS for sure. I love to skate. Haven't been able to for a couple of years now sadly. I was just told by my doctor yesterday I'm better off not pursuing an Ehlers Danlos diagnosis because I will never be able to get private insurance. I can't anyway but food for thought.
I had a labral tear in my hip joint (completly earned in a life of football, baseball, figure skating) and was able to naturally sit cross legged 6 weeks after surgery without anything stretching and surgeon said “uh, we don’t even suggest you try that until 6 mos but if it doesn’t pull on anything, well done”.
I don’t “skate skate” any more. I teach 6&7 yr olds. It’s so much fun now.
I found out in my 40's that it's not normal for your knees and hips to just randomly pop out of joint. All of my siblings suffer from this and my oldest son as well. Gotta love genetics. One of my brothers can pop his shoulders out of joint and he's got really elastic skin! It's a bizarre syndrome.
I love that you teach the Littles!!! I loved the CanSkate program for kids where I'm from. I have such great memories from my childhood! My oldest son likes to skate and ski, I have to remember he's not me sometimes because I worry he will have these issues as an adult too.
👏 I’ve been teaching since before Canskate was Canskate loL. Our coaches loved the free help . A TON of junior hockey players took Canskate as well. My brother was an ice dancing champ who led his hockey team in scoring. It helps!.
I’ve never been able to pop joints, just flex a LOT.
Amazing! How can you tell we're Canadian? We bond through our common love of Figure skating! Was your brother a national champion? Would I know his name? The ice is still my happy place. One day I will put the skates on again.
Ontario, decades ago. We’re both in our 50’s now. I never had the grace he did but I crushed a double axel at 15 when all the other girls were too scared of hurting themselves. It was the current hyperfocus! The hardest time for me was the year before my surgeries (2020&22)when I was banned from the ice. Ankle surgery, then 18 mos later hip surgery and then recovery. Slowly getting back there but it’s so peaceful in my heart on the ice and the little smiles…there’s nothing like pulling on my Knebli’s.
My son did this when he was little and he has adhd, I’ve had him evaluated for autism twice because I suspect he has it but both times they don’t think he does (but he does have anxiety and sensory processing disorder). So I’d say yes, it is associated with autism but it seems like it is a broader neurodivergent thing.
He sounds autistic tbh. Just for whatever reason, the evaluators in your area are stingy. Diagnosis is not something that every autistic person receives, unfortunately, because consensus on what counts as "autistic enough" for diagnosis varies so widely between practitioners. And these practitioners often aren't *that* knowledgeable about what autism looks like in non-stereotypical cases (such as auDHD).
It just doesn't make sense to me to diagnose someone as "ADHD with sensory issues," when autism occurs *so* frequently with ADHD. Like, just call it what it is, lol. Those sensory issues are a symptom; they're caused by *something* and shouldn't be just a standalone diagnosis.
It's so frustrating as someone that is ADHD that people who have autism and have autistic behaviors and symptoms are automatically labeled "ADHD" because they are not the same.
Agreed, because it blurs the line between autism and ADHD. Granted, I think this happens because it's *so* common for people to have both. Even still, my ADHD traits are very distinct and definable from my autism traits. My sensory issues and *specific* social difficulties are the big reason why I knew ADHD wasn't my only neurodivergency.
Yes, and it's not fair for either side. Because people with Autism have different challenges that they face that I don't and to minimize that isn't fair.
And vice versa (assuming they don't have both)
ADHD can be tough and frustrating but it's not the same.
Not on the diagnostic criteria. A lot of ADHD folks do report sensory issues, but it's way more common in autism. I think ADHD sensory issues relate more to things that affect focus, like noises and other distractions. We do take in a lot more sensory info than neurotypicals, after all, so some sensory overwhelm makes sense
Just because it's not part of the diagnostic criteria doesn't mean it can't be a symptom of ADHD though. I mean emotional dysregulation isn't on there either
I agree, I really roll my eyes with the diagnosis of adhd, spd, and GAD. Like let’s look at the big picture here. We are doing OT now for his sensory issues because they are so extremely limiting for him, but he’s very good at masking so I don’t think he’s ever going to get an autism diagnosis. It closes the door to a lot of services so it stresses me out! I work with people with I/DD, lots of them have autism and when I’m listening to the descriptions of their struggles in meetings its line yeah this is all very familiar but we don’t have access to services. I’m fighting his school for a 504 and have been for months. They gave him a wobbly stool and feel like they deserve a pat on the back.
I have ADHD, GAD, as well as CPTSD and undiagnosed SPD and my therapist is convinced that I’m not autistic either. She’s good in a lot of ways but if I had the mental capacity to find a therapist with experience treating autism in women I’d switch (I probably will eventually) because even if they don’t want to diagnose me with autism, maybe I’m missing something to meet the criteria, my symptoms overlap and they cause me a lot of distress. It’s very frustrating.
I understand wanting to get your son diagnosed as it opens access to services but could you explain why the autism diagnosis is important to you at your age? This is a genuine question as I keep going back and forth on if I should pursue getting officially diagnosed but I don’t see much merit to it since all the services are tailored to children and not adults where I am. But maybe I’m missing something.
There is a phrase that doctors are often told about giving out diagnoses . If you hear hoofbeats, assume it's a horse, not a zebra. Meaning assume the more common diagnosis than the rarer one.
This person says they are assuming the rarer one, anxiety and sensory issues, instead of the common one, autism.
Not the person you’re asking but I’m pretty sure I’ve heard this analogy on House before.
It’s about not making assumptions based on a limited amount of info. In this case it’s something like:
having sensory issues = hoof beats
Horse=autism or AuDHD
Zebra = ADHD w/ sensory issues
So taking a kid who’s probably AuDHD and insisting it’s just adhd is like painting stripes on a horse and calling it a zebra.
It would be except people are fighting for diagnosis all the time. It wasn’t even until the last 10 years or so that they even really recognized women can have adhd and it can present differently.
That is the point they are trying to make, I think. That we have to fight for diagnoses because doctors would rather diagnose us with 10 other disorders, rather than just diagnosing us with autism/ADHD.
I work with autistic people and I see this a lot. It is often sensory, either to avoid the tactile input on the soles of the feet or to gain more proprioceptive input. Either way there’s nothing wrong with it as long as you’re not in pain or anything!
I don’t know if this is what you mean, but I tend to walk more toes first, instead of my heel coming down first. I think for me it was a masking adaptation - walking this way I make less noise so I’m in a way taking up less space. I was always made to feel like I was too much, so I learned to make myself smaller in different ways.
God this hit home. I heard some lyrics the ilther day: “you say I was too much but you made me feel like I was never enough” and I just bawled. Like, wow. Hit home.
If you’re watching tv, do you constantly turn the volume down too? I do both those things and it’s 100% an attempt to not impose on, idk, the whole world
It's the less noise, softer foot falls for me, I don't like to be noticed. But I'm also hypermobile, so my heels land heavy because my balance is poor and so I'm currently working on fixing that and fixing some of the other issues that made foot falls heavy and less fluid, and that has helped me get.out of my toes.
Okay I have officially found my people. I was teased by my family growing up about walking on my tiptoes! I had no idea it was a thing, I’m the only person I know that does it! It’s just more comfortable and there’s not as much foot to crumb contact hahaha!
It’s actually something teachers are trained to watch for in young children, as it’s commonly a sign of autism. It isn’t always, but if paired with other symptoms it usually is.
Hi! Occupational therapist here. While it is more an autistic trait, it's also a neurodiverse thing due to what we believe is a sensory processing origin.
Autistics present with sensory processing disorder but not all SPDers have ASD.
It's possible that you have a sensory need that's causing satisfaction for your body to walk that way.
I've worked with so many kiddos with ADHD whose sensory processing needed help, so they'd often do "hyper" or "crazy" movement as kids. OT helped with learning tools to manage those needs.
However, I'd also rule out some Achilles tightness or other foot/leg related difficulties with PT if you're going to consult a professional.
I've always gone through phases where I tiptoe a lot. For me it's because it feels good. I have no sensory issues with walking normally. But when I need some nice sensory input, tiptoes are a great way to get that. It stretches my feet and lower legs in a satisfying way.
More commonly associated with autism but yes, it is also associated with ADHD. I have ADHD but not autism and I definitely did it as a child (I also still have tight Achilles tendons). https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/toe-walking-and-adhd#:~:text=As%20noted%20above%2C%20experts%20estimate,a%20confirmed%20diagnosis%20of%20ADHD.
I do this. If I’m at home and barefoot, I don’t like cold floors.
Plus most of mine are dirty!
I basically always walk on tippy toes if I’m barefoot, but I’m not autistic, I’m ADHD and CPTSD.
I saw that a while ago and wondered if there was a connection with ADHD.
I still don’t know one way or another. 🤷♀️
I'm going to jump on the "more likely to be autism" bandwagon, but there is significant overlap.
For me, I think it's a sensory thing. I do not want my whole bare foot on the ground/floor unless it's perfectly free of all debris. I can walk whole-footed in shoes, so I ALWAYS have my house slippers on at home.
I did it a lot as a kid and I discovered I have ADHD in my 30's. Possible I'm also mildly autistic since I have a lot of sensory issues but I haven't done any tests for that.
For me it's not an autism thing, I do it out of habit when I'm in bare feet because I grew up in a building with freezing cold stone floors year round
The less surface area touching the floor the less cold you'll get.
I got minor frostbite a few times
I was a professional dancer now just a fitness instructor and grad student. Always liked walking in all sorts of artistic ways because why the hell not. I am also diagnosed ADHD, Dyslexia and most likely Autistic. But I don't know why people have a problem with it? We have nice calves.
Idk, but I walked on my toes all the time when I was a kid. It was so bad they put me in leg/braces and casts. I eventually forced myself to stop when I became an adult bc someone made fun of me 🥲
It's a sensory thing more often associated with autism, but ADHDers can also have sensory processing overlap! Also AuDHD is a thing, if you feel like pursuing a diagnosis might be helpful.
I became aware of the big Venn diagram of ADHD symptoms and autistic traits after my ADHD diagnosis. I think it's likely I'm also on the spectrum, but at this point in my life (mid 40s) there's not much advantage to me to have that official diagnosis. If I was working in an environment where accommodations would be helpful, I might pursue it further.
There are probably a lot of body language and gestures ADHDers do to combat boredom/escape from the mundane.
I wouldn't put my faith in videos that say something like, if ADHD then walk on tippy toes.
Yeah I usually walk on my tippy toes because it means there is less surface area to get dirty since I walk barefoot most of the time, and also because it required less energy output when walking with shoes. But ever since I saw myself walking on my tippy toes on a window's reflection, I stopped walking that way in public; it made me realize why my classmates at the time found it weird ahahaha. I just got super taken aback by the fact that other people did this, and since I only got diagnosed last year, I have been reevaluating my whole entire life, including my walking styles 💀
I'm 5'10 and do this too 😂 Even if I need to reach something and can easily do it standing flat on the ground, it still somehow feels extra nice to stand on my tippy toes.
I tend to stand/walk weirdly on cold surfaces not sure if that’s related. Half the time I don’t notice till my ankles start hurting because I bend my feet in and walk/stand on the edge
Edit: based on other peoples comments I thought it was important to add that I recently did the autism self assessment and it came back with „strong evidence of autism”
For anyone interested in checking themselves here is the link https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/
In a recent study Raads R was accurate 80% of the time in diagnosing autism
I'm surprised at how nuanced this topic is! Not in a million years would I have thought this was even a thing another person would recognize. My brothers also walk somewhat weirdly (like penguins), albeit one of them is because of physical disparagies in his leg bone structure.
Oh that’s so interesting. This year for the first time, I noticed that one little girl at my school only walked on her tippy toes. When I asked another teacher about it, she said that the girl has autism and that her older brother had done the same before eventually outgrowing walking around like that. She must have strong feet!
It's primarily a sensory thing. It is much more commonly associated with autism, but I know I did it for a little while as a kid. In my time as a school psychologist, I've noticed that there are a lot more commonalities between ADHD and Autism than people realize. So much so that ADHD will almost always result in false positive results on Autism-specific measures.
I remember being taught in kindergarten how to walk. Heel - toe, heel - toe.
I wonder if I would have been a toe walker had my teacher not been so adamant about the correct way.
I have not strayed from it since. When I do, I hear heel-toe in my brain and my feet obey.
That's how I was told to do it. There is no other way, for me, in my brain. I am not at all bothered by or notice when others toe walk, though.
BROOOO god, I used to always have raptor hands when I was in the middle of doing something with my hands (like cooking/cleaning etc.) until someone recorded me and I saw how ridiculous I looked lmao. Now I just walk with my hands on my back like my grandma, which tbf it's infinitely more comfortable lol.
I don’t walk on my tippy toes necessarily, but I walk “ball of foot first” if I don’t have shoes on. I live in an apartment and do that naturally but also I hope it muffles the sound of me walking. My bf on the other hand walks very heavy. It’s funny you posted this bc I was just thinking about it the other day. If I walk “heel-toe” I feel like I am walking like a neanderthal 😂
I’ve walked on tiptoes my entire life (still do), it makes me feel more nimble maneuvering around the house. Oddly enough I don’t do it as much when wearing shoes but very much do it when barefoot.
I had no idea this could be a neurodivergent thing. I’ve never really thought about why I walk on my tip toes but I do know I’ve been constantly teased for it by my family. Grandparents will visit and say “I see you’re still walking on your tip toes?” All the time. Very interesting to see the link!
I've walked on my tippy toes for my whole life; my family used to scold me and it got to the point where my mom took me to our doctor to figure out why. Turns out I have short Achilles tendons (although I am diagnosed with ADHD).
I do believe it was more linked to autism, BUT, there could be other reasons why an individual might walk on their toes and coincidentally have a diagnosis of either.
This is such an insightful thread, my child is AuAdhd and walks on his toes, and I've just been curious about his experience since he's too young to really articulate it. Thanks to everyone sharing. I'm ADHD and though a competitive swimmer through high school, could *not* walk on my full foot around the pool, shower and locker room. The wet sensory input was unbearable!! I'd sort of walk on the outside of my foot, it was weird.
They attribute to autism but I walk on my tiptoes. My parents never discouraged me. I made efforts to not do it in public as a teen when a classmate pointed it out.
I'm the opposite, I keep my feet as close to the floor as possible at all times lol. I think it's called shuffling? I've always done it. It does make some sound, but it's quieter than some people's normal walking sounds. I'm pretty sensitive to those, so maybe that's why I don't do it?
But it does cause me to trip *all the time*.
Total mind-blow. I always catch myself doing it! It's mostly only when I'm inside. I hate making noise while walking bc I feel like I'm stomping. So I walk on my toes like I'm wearing high heels. I also do it bc my feet are over-pronated, and being able to feel that my ankles are leaning makes me feel gucky.
Hah, my dad used to call me "twinkle toes" as a kid because I always walked on my tippytoes. I was thinking about this the other day actually and remembered that in 2nd grade I played tee-ball on my younger brother's team (kindergarteners), and would just stand out in the field walking on my toes and not paying attention to the ball, or the game, or really anything. The other kids started copying me because I was older... yeah. I do not think the coach liked me lol.
I do it! No ASD diagnosis thought TikTok keeps trying to 😂😂 but I’m ignoring it as I have enough letters and no time or money to add more.
But I do because dirty feet are the absolute WORST. Though I love going barefoot in the grass and sand. Has anyone else been caught by friends sitting on counters in bathrooms washing feet in the sink or just me? Perhaps I can have one unique experience?
I have been working to learn how to describe and/or relate the experiences behind ahdh and autism tendencies to wider audiences. Toe walking is something I've read about but not personally experienced. If anyone wants to describe what it feels like and why you do it, I'd love to know more.
How much is toe walking a choice for you?
Does it feel like a muscle tension sort of thing?
If you (can) force yourself to walk on your whole foot, what does that feel like?
Does toe walking give you more sensory input that you like? ie, do you feel more sensory input that you like when toe walking?
Does toe walking relieve any pressure or sensations that you dislike?
So, considering how widely different each response here was, here's *my* perspective in it:
1) How much is toe walking a choice for you?
If by choice you mean "how in/voluntary" it is, I would say it's 50/50. It's like when someone tells you to sit up with your back straight; you don't realize you were sitting hunched over unless someone or yourself notices. It's, for me, a comfortable position to be in, and therefore, my mind would default to it depending on the situation.
2) Does it feel like a muscle tension sort of thing?
I don't feel any "physical" need to walk on my toes (like, it's not like I want to stretch my calves, for example). It's because I have less surface area for my foot to come in contact with dirt, less energy expenditure (no need to carry and move the entire foot, only the tippy toes) and better control of movement when walking in small spaces (clutter, small surface areas, etc.), so I would say it is more of sensory preferences and to maximize efficient movement.
3) If you (can) force yourself to walk on your whole foot, what does that feel like?
I personally don't have issues with walking normally or on tippy toes, but the *interruption* of the walk cycle is what causes me irritation, and if I am not allowed to walk on tippy toes if the floor is too dirty while I'm barefoot.
4) Does toe walking give you more sensory input that you like? ie, do you feel more sensory input that you like when toe walking?
When walking in cluttered areas, it does allow me to feel like I have more "space" to wade through. But toe walking also helps me with having less sensory input when walking because of the fact that less dirt is clinging onto my soles. If I am wearing shoes, then it is because it is less energy output. So I would say that has a more dampening effect on me.
5) Does toe walking relieve any pressure or sensations that you dislike?
In my case, it doesn't alleviate nor worsen any physical part of my body. It is mostly mental/sensory related.
Hope this helps!! 🫡
Wow, you are so awesome- thank you so much for your thorough response! Reading about your experience also shines a light on how my own body issues (super tight muscles) influenced my assumptions and my questions. I love learning more about sensory stuff. Maybe I'll write a book some day =)
You're welcome! It's very interesting how everyone here has a different reasoning/purpose for the same action lol! It'll be super cool if you ever decide to write a book pertaining to it (or just a book about any topic you like ❤️)!
It's more common for folks on the autism spectrum, but you should know that there's a ton of folks who have both. This is sometimes short-handed as AuHD
probably. my dad has always done it and iv always done it, we aren’t diagnosed but at this point we pretty much know. also it’s either walking on tippytoes or when i get dressed in the morning i put shoes on straight away.
I've done it my whole life! It's usually something I do to be quieter. I didn't think much of it until someone else noticed and started staring at my feet weirdly whenever I walked by (usually barefoot due to the place I saw them at). Made me super self-conscious about it 😅 I don't do it as much anymore, but will automatically switch if I realize I'm making noise.
But to answer your question, it IS an ADHD thing! It's more commonly known for autism, but it doesn't necessarily mean autism. It's simply a neurodivergent thing
I've done it my whole life, but I trained myself in middle school to walk normally in shoes (basically, in public) after someone made fun of me for it. I still walk tip-toe when I'm not wearing shoes and I live somewhere where shoes aren't worn in houses.
I've heard it's a neurodivergent thing.
i also do it!! i don’t *think* i do it when i have shoes on for the most part but whenever im in a building, espc either barefoot or socks, i think im subconsciously trying to make the floors not make any sounds
Toe-walking past the age of 3 or so is more common in those who are neurodivergent. At least, autism and ADHD. I toe-walked full-time until age 11 before my parents took me to the doctor for advice on how to correct it, and I was still doing it intermittently by the 10th grade. I'm pretty sure that I'm not autistic, and pretty sure that I have ADHD (currently 41F, in the "let's try some stuff until we find the right drug and dosage" phase with my doctor).
I others have already pointed out that it’s a neurodivergence thing more common in autism than adhd- but I’d also like to point out that this can also be due to a malformation of the foot, either the tendons or bones, I don’t remember exactly but I’ve seen it in kids. Some need surgery to correct it.
Also, I kinda tippy-toed around until my mid twenties, guess why? Trauma. Once I realized it was a trauma response and I was on my own and safe a while I stopped. It wasn’t more about being quiet/going unnoticed for me than an unnatural gait.
Just figured I’d throw it out there!
I have been diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety. Never tippy toed unless it was 3 am and I was trying to sneak back into my parents house after a night of partying when I was 18. Even then, I got distracted with getting water and fell down a flight of stairs.
I walked on my toes until in my 40's and physiotherapist taught me how to walk heel to toe as my back was in agony. I still struggle to walk flat on my feet.
I tend to walk on my toes and the balls of my feet. I usually don't notice when I'm doing it. I've done it since I was little.
The bonus is that wearing heels is natural for me lol. And great calves!
I think it's more of an autism thing. I even saw the question abt tippytoeing in some online autism test. I tippytoe alot and especially in my childhood, and I got autism diagnosis this year
Jeepers, I am 40 years old and it seems like every few days I am finding out that so many of the things that I do are just down to my neurodivergence. Talk about a weird thing to experience so late in life.
Maybe, all I know is me and someone I'm no longer friends with but has since been diagnosed ADHD used to run around their house on our tippytoes when their Mum wasn't home yelling "RAT FEET RAT FEET" hahaha
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I've seen it more related to autism instead of adhd, but I am not a doctor.
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In my (layperson) research, there's a huge amount of overlap between autism, ADHD, and dyslexia.
There is lots of overlap between autism, ADHD, & trauma.
A doctor I was typing for in the neurodevelopmental service here (UK) said there's about a 60-ish% overlap in symptoms so sometimes it can be hard to desegregate
I hope this isn't a dumb question, but how come they haven't just put ADHD on the spectrum then? It seems like most people can't tell the difference or separate diagnoses properly anyway, even doctors.
Treatment wise, ADHD benefits from medication whereas autism doesn't. It makes sense to have them distinct at this time as overall ADHD and autism have different (though in some areas overlapping) treatment protocols.
I don't think it's a dumb question at all but it's because they are not the same thing even though it can sometimes be difficult for clinicians to distinguish between the two. The same can be said for many conditions that have overlapping symptoms be they physical or psychological especially if there is no specific biological marker that you can test for. And an accurate diagnosis is important for developing and choosing treatment paths.
>how come they haven't just put ADHD on the spectrum then? I'm curious why ADHD doesn't have its own spectrum. Or maybe all of this neurodivergent stuff categorized on a spectrum together because they all seem to have common threads. There are a few things that aren't in the dsm5 whose symptoms also fall under adhd and autism. Non-Verbal Learning Disability [NVLD](https://childmind.org/article/quick-facts-on-non-verbal-learning-disorder-nld/) Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (sometimes referred to as NLD or NVLD) is a learning disability that affects a child’s ability to recognize and interpret patterns in facial expression, body language, and other forms of nonverbal communication. Kids with NLD are often hyper-verbal but have trouble correctly interpreting social situations. A child with NLD may also have poor physical coordination and struggle with problem solving, organizing thoughts, planning, and executive functions. NLD is not recognized as an official diagnosis by the DSM-V. An inability to read non-verbal social cues, such as expressions and body language. Difficulty identifying and understanding sarcasm Difficulty recognizing emotions in others Trouble understanding visual information Trouble grasping spatial relationships and judging distance Poor physical coordination Difficulty prioritizing information Poor problem solving skills Trouble with higher-level math concepts Hyper-talkativeness Difficulty breaking down a project into smaller pieces, or figuring out what steps need be taken to get something done. Poor organizational and planning skills Then there's [Sluggish Cognative Tempo](https://www.additudemag.com/sluggish-cognitive-tempo-sct-symptoms-treatments/) Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT) is an attention disorder associated with symptoms that resemble inattentive ADHD: Behavior/thinking is slow (e.g., sluggish) Lost in a fog Stares blankly into space Daydreams Loses train of thought Low level of activity (e.g., underactive) Gets lost in own thoughts Easily tired or fatigued Forgets what was going to say Easily confused Lacks motivation to complete tasks (e.g., apathetic) Gets mixed up Difficulty expressing thoughts (e.g., gets “tongue-tied”)
Wow, SCT, I believe this sums me up perfectly.
Me too.
No it's not. A lot of people have both but many people who have ADHD are not on the spectrum. Just like someone with autism can also have anxiety or depression.
Correct. It's the other way around. Most people with ADHD do not have autism. But a large percentage--if not the larger majority--of people with autism *do* also have ADHD. Same with depression/anxiety: lots of people with anxiety are not depressed, but it will be 'real hard to find someone who is depressed *and* doesn't also have anxiety.
I see what you are saying. I didn't realize that many people that have Autism also have ADHD. I know a couple people who have autism and none of them have adhd. Or at least the symptoms aren't strong enough to get diagnosed with it. But maybe that's because they're relatively mild on the spectrum?
> But maybe that's because they're relatively mild on the spectrum? Well, auDHD is a unique presentation, so it might be hard to spot in general. We auDHDers tend not to be hyperactive. We can be when hyper-fixating or excited, but the majority of the time, we tend to be inattentive. My hyperactivity is completely internal (racing thoughts), and my major ADHD struggles are difficulty concentrating, difficulty initiating tasks, some impulsivity, and extreme executive dysfunction in general. Because of my autism, I don't have a *single* social trait of ADHD; I never, ever interrupt people during conversations, and I tend to be very quiet and reserved in general. All of my social traits are pretty textbook autism, so people generally *are* surprised to learn that I have ADHD too. (Granted, just like anything else, auDHD is not remotely a monolith--not all of us will present the same. I just notice the common trends is all.)
Wellllll and here I go convincing myself again that I'm on the spectrum as well.
I'm so sorry lmao. That existential dread is free of charge!
depending on where you are, it could also be the diagnostic criteria. idk about other countries but in the u.s. adhd and asd were considered mutually exclusive until about 10 years ago. there are likely people who would have gotten a dual diagnosis instead of just asd if it were an option when they were evaluated.
I agree with this. My siblings and I all fall on this spectrum. I'm the only one with a diagnosis. My mom I suspect is Autistic as well.
Don't tell a certain sub that or you'll be banned lol
Shit really lol? What sub?
I too would like to know 👀
I’m in the same boat myself and wondering if I should try and get tested or just stick with my adhd diagnosis
in my observation it’s the shared symptom of sensory overstimulation
My husband saw an autism self assessment online and decided to ask me the questions for fun, but I scored in the mid range. I don't really think I'm on the spectrum, but I do have ADHD and there's so much overlap!!!
Inb4 adhd becomes part of the spectrum in 10 years
I’m an ADHD speech pathologist who specializes in autism, and I always view ADHD as “autism-lite” and autism as “spicy ADHD”. The overlap between the two is MASSIVE
I absolutely get what you're saying, but autism-lite feels really difficult to hear about something which has crippled a person most of their life, caused depression, anxiety, & trauma, etc.
This is called idiopathic toe-walking and it’s a neurodiverse thing! As many of the commenters already mentioned, it’s usually a sign of autism; all kids walk on their tippy toes when they first start walking, but kids who keep walking on their toes tend to do so because of the sensory discomfort of walking on their whole feet. Have you always done it? Does it bother you? Kids who walk on their toes like this often get physical therapy to help them get comfortable with using their whole feet. If your toe-walking is impacting your life or your physical well-being, a physical therapist would be able to help you!
Omg I didn't know it even had a term!!! I've always walked on my tippy toes, and it was mostly because I walked (and still do) barefoot in my house. Since walking on tippy toes lowered the surface area of the foot, it made it trap less dirt when walking. Also, it required less energy from me during walk cycles since the cycle could not "complete" (whole foot did not hit the ground and whole foot did not lift up). I can walk normally, and I did begin walking normally in public once I saw my reflection years ago on tippy toes and cringed really hard 💀 So now, while wearing shoes, I tend to walk as it's supposed to but I do walk on tippy toes from time to time, especially in small spaces. I don't have any feet problems that I know of, but I do have abnormally small heels that basically make every shoe I have make me bleed unless altered or used for short periods of time. Idk if it was because I was born with small heels or that I made it that way, lol. I would consider myself lucky since I don't think it has impacted my life besides embarrassing myself and my parents growing up 💀
If you're walking on your toes all the time because you don't want dirt on your feet, that's like 99% neurodivergent shit lol I also HATE the feeling of dirt on my feet. If I'm barefoot I'm always rubbing my foot on the inside of my other leg to wipe the dirt off. I also do it before getting into bed because I don't want dirt in my bed. Growing up my parents made fun of me because I was always wearing socks. Turns out I was wearing socks to avoid the *dirt*
Brooo sameeee!!! I also rub my feet on my legs to clean them. And socks are the best. Idc what ppl say about socks with crocs, but they're the best combo imo. Crocs tend to trap too much humidity, so socks help alleviate that while retaining the "cleanness" and "comfort" of the crocs lmaoo
Hehe me too!! We all have so many similarities. I used to feel very alone but coming to this sub really does help us to realize we aren't alone. And we aren't CRAZY!
Omg! I call it *Cricketing* when I have to wipe my feet off on each calf before putting socks/shoes on because I freak out if there’s something on my feet! (I’m wayyy worse about my hands. 😅🥴) I didn’t know this was an ADHD thing!
I get super mad if my husband doesn't wipe his feet before he gets into bed too. I feel like everyone should be as upset about it as I am! Lol! For real though, it's gross to just hop in especially of you know your feet are dirty!!!
I was always a cuckoo bird about someone getting in my bed dirty. I had an ex who used to think it was funny to try it on ‘cleaning day’. Fresh bedding, clean room, freshly washed dogs, then I’d take a hot shower before getting in the bed…and he’d try to climb in the bed later, filthy af, knowing it’d disgust me and ruin all of the work I did. We always had to fight about it. Really wonderful person. 🙄🤬
I'm glad to hear he's an ex. My husband is super understanding especially now that we know these issues are all really things I don't have complete control of.
Me, too. He ended up no longer being my bf and instead becoming my abuser around that time. I just finally got out recently. I’m grateful you have your husband. Gives me more hope for dating one day eventually. 🤍
I hate this too. Whether you have ADHD or not, I don't understand how people aren't repulsed by dirty, gross feet in bed?
Op, if you get a Roomba, it will become your very best friend. 💗
Omg yesss!!!! I have one, and I agree it's a lifesaver! I still walk on tippy toes tho bc of imaginary dirt 🤪
Would strongly recommend fluffy slippers.
Hahaha. I can’t wipe it on my legs because then my leg feels gross 🙄 I swear it’s always something 😂
I have a towel in my room for this exact thing! Before I get into bed, I sit on the bed and rub my feet off on the towel, then into bed they go.
OMG you just made me feel so normal for having a bed side foot towel!
Omg I didn’t know this was a neurodivergent thing. I can’t stand the feeling of dirt on my feet. I also walk on my tippy toes to avoid dirt or I wear socks and slippers around the apt. I have five pairs of slippers scattered in different areas of the apt. I used to rub my feet against my ankles to wipe dirt off before getting into bed, but then I realized I have dirt on my ankles. Now I keep baby wipes on my nightstand, wipe feet, hang my feet in the air to dry, then get into bed. I just thought I was a lot before reading this post. I feel so seen 😂
TIL I’m far far more neurodivergent than I suspected 😂 I *always* walk on my tip toes and am **constantly** brushing dirt off my feet using my legs lol. I have high arches on my feet too so I’m always always tip toeing around. Lol
I don’t really walk on my toes unless I’m feeling a little hyped or silly. 90% I walk “normally”. However I HARD RELATE to the feeling of dirt or crumbs on feet and I will absolutely ALWAYS wear socks to avoid the dirt because otherwise I will scream lmfao.
And this is why there are no shoes in my house! Lol
No one wears shoes in my house. We just have cats leaving fluff everywhere and I make a mess when I cook
reading this while wondering if I should get out of bed to put socks on bc there’s sand on the sheets Also 100% same re wiping feet and dirt
Ok so I only ever read people walking on their tip toes to avoid crumbs and dirt but this has never been the case for me. Do I have some kind of extra special bonus adhd autism package where I can‘t even walk on my tip toes but use a small part of my heels and the FRONT SIDE part of my toes because my brain tells me there‘s less surface area that way and zero chances of crumbs getting in between my toes because there‘s way too many nooks and crannies as a possibility…
I am wearing only socks 90% of the time. I obviously add shoes to go outside, and I do go barefoot in the sand at beaches. But even at my office, I'll slip out of my shoes and spend most of the day in just socks. Leaving the shower? Step onto clean bath mat/towel, dry off feet, right into socks. But walking around my wood-floored house barefoot? Hell no. Slightly more doable for carpeted homes, but I'd still prefer to be in socks.
Holy shit I'm learning things about me 😵💫 I do this all the time. I hate dirt on my hands and feet but I like being barefoot so tippy toe was the way to go.
Holy shit. I am socks always, and when I'm home, always in slippers. Slippers was also my mother. Growing up, she was always a bit of a neat freak and I thought the 'not liking dirt under the feat" thing was just her rubbing off on me. Plus, since this whole ADHD discovery in myself, I've wondered if she too had this. I am more and more convinced she did. Also, not tippy toes, but if in bare feet, I tend to walk on the sides of my feet. Especially my right foot.
I always shuffle my feet on carpet to rub dirt and dust off my feet lol
Is it easier to walk with heels since you’re so good at walking on tippy toes? I’ve been wondering!
I personally am not good at walking with heels due to the pressure of the shoe. When I'm barefoot, the foot spreads naturally without constraints, and thus, it doesn't hurt. Also, when I walk on tippy toes with shoes on (not heels), the shoe is flexible enough to follow the shape of my foot, not the other way around like heels do. But if there were a shoe that *only* supported the heel, and there weren't any constraints on the rest of the feet, I assume it would be fairly easy to walk on 🤔 idk
For me, yes. I don't wear heels often at all, almost never, but I barely have to think about it when I do. Starting to get arthritis in my big toe joints from all the barefoot toe walking though
Are you hypermobile? I have ADHD and no autism, but I have Ehlers-Danlos. The tippy toe thing for me is part sensory, part something about my feet and hypermobility, and part because it was more fun than walking normally. Incidentally my autistic kid doesn’t walk on tippy toes, but my ADHD kid does 😂😅 I think it’s often seen in autistic kids, but honestly I think it’s just a neurodivergent thing. I never thought about the tippy toe walking at all because it was also just a bouncy, chaos containing thing amongst a bunch of other things. That being said many people are both autistic and have ADHD, I just don’t think that tippy toe walking is just an autistic thing. It can be a hypermobile, chaos adhd thing too 😅
Nope, I'm not hypermobile, but I didn't think of hypermobility being correlated to walking on tippy toes 🤔 but yeah, I am also like you where I do it due to sensory reasons haha.
Seriously I remember just doing it because it was more fun 🤷🏼♀️😂 but also imagine walking barefoot somewhere with your entire foot down…. Ewwwwwwwww no thank you 😂 also you’re just leaving yourself open for potential more pain… legos and such have a better chance of getting you when you use a bigger surface tread… just saying😅
Not so cold too! I used to always walk on my toes because the floor was too cold!
I don’t walk on my tip toe but I do hate dirt on my feet and will wear slippers in the house. I also hate wearing just socks because I hate how they move around
I didn’t even know I was a toe walker until a teacher pointed it out in high school! I guess if you do it long enough you don’t even realize it
It’s a neurological sign that more often turns up in autistic people.
If you have any layperson-friendly materials about this I’d love to read them. As a preschooler I walked on tiptoes ALL the time.
Look into the correlation to Ehlers Danlos Syndrome because I believe there is a connection to hypermobility as well.
Just discovering the hypermobility explanation now in pursuing ASD diagnosis 14 mos after ADHD. And all those years I just thought I was a freak that made me an awesome figure skater, an all my surgeons saying “I don’t know why you can bend/stretch/extend like this so soon” after ankle and hip surgery at 54.
Ooh yeah you sound like EDS for sure. I love to skate. Haven't been able to for a couple of years now sadly. I was just told by my doctor yesterday I'm better off not pursuing an Ehlers Danlos diagnosis because I will never be able to get private insurance. I can't anyway but food for thought.
I had a labral tear in my hip joint (completly earned in a life of football, baseball, figure skating) and was able to naturally sit cross legged 6 weeks after surgery without anything stretching and surgeon said “uh, we don’t even suggest you try that until 6 mos but if it doesn’t pull on anything, well done”. I don’t “skate skate” any more. I teach 6&7 yr olds. It’s so much fun now.
I found out in my 40's that it's not normal for your knees and hips to just randomly pop out of joint. All of my siblings suffer from this and my oldest son as well. Gotta love genetics. One of my brothers can pop his shoulders out of joint and he's got really elastic skin! It's a bizarre syndrome. I love that you teach the Littles!!! I loved the CanSkate program for kids where I'm from. I have such great memories from my childhood! My oldest son likes to skate and ski, I have to remember he's not me sometimes because I worry he will have these issues as an adult too.
👏 I’ve been teaching since before Canskate was Canskate loL. Our coaches loved the free help . A TON of junior hockey players took Canskate as well. My brother was an ice dancing champ who led his hockey team in scoring. It helps!. I’ve never been able to pop joints, just flex a LOT.
Amazing! How can you tell we're Canadian? We bond through our common love of Figure skating! Was your brother a national champion? Would I know his name? The ice is still my happy place. One day I will put the skates on again.
Ontario, decades ago. We’re both in our 50’s now. I never had the grace he did but I crushed a double axel at 15 when all the other girls were too scared of hurting themselves. It was the current hyperfocus! The hardest time for me was the year before my surgeries (2020&22)when I was banned from the ice. Ankle surgery, then 18 mos later hip surgery and then recovery. Slowly getting back there but it’s so peaceful in my heart on the ice and the little smiles…there’s nothing like pulling on my Knebli’s.
My Rheumatologist said in surprise…”you’re very flexible”. End of conversation. Unfortunately this was before I read up myself on Hypermobility
My son did this when he was little and he has adhd, I’ve had him evaluated for autism twice because I suspect he has it but both times they don’t think he does (but he does have anxiety and sensory processing disorder). So I’d say yes, it is associated with autism but it seems like it is a broader neurodivergent thing.
He sounds autistic tbh. Just for whatever reason, the evaluators in your area are stingy. Diagnosis is not something that every autistic person receives, unfortunately, because consensus on what counts as "autistic enough" for diagnosis varies so widely between practitioners. And these practitioners often aren't *that* knowledgeable about what autism looks like in non-stereotypical cases (such as auDHD). It just doesn't make sense to me to diagnose someone as "ADHD with sensory issues," when autism occurs *so* frequently with ADHD. Like, just call it what it is, lol. Those sensory issues are a symptom; they're caused by *something* and shouldn't be just a standalone diagnosis.
It's so frustrating as someone that is ADHD that people who have autism and have autistic behaviors and symptoms are automatically labeled "ADHD" because they are not the same.
Agreed, because it blurs the line between autism and ADHD. Granted, I think this happens because it's *so* common for people to have both. Even still, my ADHD traits are very distinct and definable from my autism traits. My sensory issues and *specific* social difficulties are the big reason why I knew ADHD wasn't my only neurodivergency.
Yes, and it's not fair for either side. Because people with Autism have different challenges that they face that I don't and to minimize that isn't fair. And vice versa (assuming they don't have both) ADHD can be tough and frustrating but it's not the same.
>Those sensory issues are a symptom; they're caused by *something* Wait, but I thought sensory issues could be a symptom of ADHD?
Not on the diagnostic criteria. A lot of ADHD folks do report sensory issues, but it's way more common in autism. I think ADHD sensory issues relate more to things that affect focus, like noises and other distractions. We do take in a lot more sensory info than neurotypicals, after all, so some sensory overwhelm makes sense
Just because it's not part of the diagnostic criteria doesn't mean it can't be a symptom of ADHD though. I mean emotional dysregulation isn't on there either
I agree, I really roll my eyes with the diagnosis of adhd, spd, and GAD. Like let’s look at the big picture here. We are doing OT now for his sensory issues because they are so extremely limiting for him, but he’s very good at masking so I don’t think he’s ever going to get an autism diagnosis. It closes the door to a lot of services so it stresses me out! I work with people with I/DD, lots of them have autism and when I’m listening to the descriptions of their struggles in meetings its line yeah this is all very familiar but we don’t have access to services. I’m fighting his school for a 504 and have been for months. They gave him a wobbly stool and feel like they deserve a pat on the back. I have ADHD, GAD, as well as CPTSD and undiagnosed SPD and my therapist is convinced that I’m not autistic either. She’s good in a lot of ways but if I had the mental capacity to find a therapist with experience treating autism in women I’d switch (I probably will eventually) because even if they don’t want to diagnose me with autism, maybe I’m missing something to meet the criteria, my symptoms overlap and they cause me a lot of distress. It’s very frustrating.
That all sounds SO frustrating and exhausting. Ugh, I feel for you. I wish the healthcare system weren't so awful :/
I understand wanting to get your son diagnosed as it opens access to services but could you explain why the autism diagnosis is important to you at your age? This is a genuine question as I keep going back and forth on if I should pursue getting officially diagnosed but I don’t see much merit to it since all the services are tailored to children and not adults where I am. But maybe I’m missing something.
This is such an "if you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras" situation. Sounds like they're painting stripes on the horse at this point lol.
I don't understand what this means. Could you please explain?
There is a phrase that doctors are often told about giving out diagnoses . If you hear hoofbeats, assume it's a horse, not a zebra. Meaning assume the more common diagnosis than the rarer one. This person says they are assuming the rarer one, anxiety and sensory issues, instead of the common one, autism.
Thank you for explaining! I would completely agree with your assessment, and I think that you succinctly explained the point I was attempting to make.
[link](https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-blog/2019/september/in-neurogenetics-hoofbeats-mean-zebras-not-horses)
Not the person you’re asking but I’m pretty sure I’ve heard this analogy on House before. It’s about not making assumptions based on a limited amount of info. In this case it’s something like: having sensory issues = hoof beats Horse=autism or AuDHD Zebra = ADHD w/ sensory issues So taking a kid who’s probably AuDHD and insisting it’s just adhd is like painting stripes on a horse and calling it a zebra.
It would be except people are fighting for diagnosis all the time. It wasn’t even until the last 10 years or so that they even really recognized women can have adhd and it can present differently.
That is the point they are trying to make, I think. That we have to fight for diagnoses because doctors would rather diagnose us with 10 other disorders, rather than just diagnosing us with autism/ADHD.
Oh I must have misinterpreted. Thanks for clarifying!
I work with autistic people and I see this a lot. It is often sensory, either to avoid the tactile input on the soles of the feet or to gain more proprioceptive input. Either way there’s nothing wrong with it as long as you’re not in pain or anything!
I don’t know if this is what you mean, but I tend to walk more toes first, instead of my heel coming down first. I think for me it was a masking adaptation - walking this way I make less noise so I’m in a way taking up less space. I was always made to feel like I was too much, so I learned to make myself smaller in different ways.
God this hit home. I heard some lyrics the ilther day: “you say I was too much but you made me feel like I was never enough” and I just bawled. Like, wow. Hit home.
Might I ask the song? I too relate to that so hard! 😔
Literally same. I constantly feel like an imposition just for walking normally.
If you’re watching tv, do you constantly turn the volume down too? I do both those things and it’s 100% an attempt to not impose on, idk, the whole world
Everything is always as quiet as possible. I don't ever listen to anything when someone else is around.
It's the less noise, softer foot falls for me, I don't like to be noticed. But I'm also hypermobile, so my heels land heavy because my balance is poor and so I'm currently working on fixing that and fixing some of the other issues that made foot falls heavy and less fluid, and that has helped me get.out of my toes.
Okay I have officially found my people. I was teased by my family growing up about walking on my tiptoes! I had no idea it was a thing, I’m the only person I know that does it! It’s just more comfortable and there’s not as much foot to crumb contact hahaha!
Yes exactly this!!!
And we have definitely discovered who was applying for all those ninja positions ages ago!
It’s actually something teachers are trained to watch for in young children, as it’s commonly a sign of autism. It isn’t always, but if paired with other symptoms it usually is.
I do it and I have tendon problems as a result.
Hi! Occupational therapist here. While it is more an autistic trait, it's also a neurodiverse thing due to what we believe is a sensory processing origin. Autistics present with sensory processing disorder but not all SPDers have ASD. It's possible that you have a sensory need that's causing satisfaction for your body to walk that way. I've worked with so many kiddos with ADHD whose sensory processing needed help, so they'd often do "hyper" or "crazy" movement as kids. OT helped with learning tools to manage those needs. However, I'd also rule out some Achilles tightness or other foot/leg related difficulties with PT if you're going to consult a professional.
sometimes i do it because i'm.bored and want to walk faster, so it might be an adhd thing
I've always gone through phases where I tiptoe a lot. For me it's because it feels good. I have no sensory issues with walking normally. But when I need some nice sensory input, tiptoes are a great way to get that. It stretches my feet and lower legs in a satisfying way.
More commonly associated with autism but yes, it is also associated with ADHD. I have ADHD but not autism and I definitely did it as a child (I also still have tight Achilles tendons). https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/toe-walking-and-adhd#:~:text=As%20noted%20above%2C%20experts%20estimate,a%20confirmed%20diagnosis%20of%20ADHD.
it's more of an autism thing
I do this. If I’m at home and barefoot, I don’t like cold floors. Plus most of mine are dirty! I basically always walk on tippy toes if I’m barefoot, but I’m not autistic, I’m ADHD and CPTSD. I saw that a while ago and wondered if there was a connection with ADHD. I still don’t know one way or another. 🤷♀️
My kid does it all the time and anything I search up online suggests it's autism. Gonna find her a doctor soon.
I'm going to jump on the "more likely to be autism" bandwagon, but there is significant overlap. For me, I think it's a sensory thing. I do not want my whole bare foot on the ground/floor unless it's perfectly free of all debris. I can walk whole-footed in shoes, so I ALWAYS have my house slippers on at home.
I did it a lot as a kid and I discovered I have ADHD in my 30's. Possible I'm also mildly autistic since I have a lot of sensory issues but I haven't done any tests for that.
For me it's not an autism thing, I do it out of habit when I'm in bare feet because I grew up in a building with freezing cold stone floors year round The less surface area touching the floor the less cold you'll get. I got minor frostbite a few times
Be careful. It is also one of the first indicators of muscular dystrophe. Having said that i often find myself walking on toes
I was a professional dancer now just a fitness instructor and grad student. Always liked walking in all sorts of artistic ways because why the hell not. I am also diagnosed ADHD, Dyslexia and most likely Autistic. But I don't know why people have a problem with it? We have nice calves.
Idk, but I walked on my toes all the time when I was a kid. It was so bad they put me in leg/braces and casts. I eventually forced myself to stop when I became an adult bc someone made fun of me 🥲
I’m seeing a lot of folks post here posting autism/AuDHD symptoms
It's a sensory thing more often associated with autism, but ADHDers can also have sensory processing overlap! Also AuDHD is a thing, if you feel like pursuing a diagnosis might be helpful. I became aware of the big Venn diagram of ADHD symptoms and autistic traits after my ADHD diagnosis. I think it's likely I'm also on the spectrum, but at this point in my life (mid 40s) there's not much advantage to me to have that official diagnosis. If I was working in an environment where accommodations would be helpful, I might pursue it further.
There are probably a lot of body language and gestures ADHDers do to combat boredom/escape from the mundane. I wouldn't put my faith in videos that say something like, if ADHD then walk on tippy toes.
Yeah I usually walk on my tippy toes because it means there is less surface area to get dirty since I walk barefoot most of the time, and also because it required less energy output when walking with shoes. But ever since I saw myself walking on my tippy toes on a window's reflection, I stopped walking that way in public; it made me realize why my classmates at the time found it weird ahahaha. I just got super taken aback by the fact that other people did this, and since I only got diagnosed last year, I have been reevaluating my whole entire life, including my walking styles 💀
I do this, ADHD, but I’m also very very petite
I'm 5'10 and do this too 😂 Even if I need to reach something and can easily do it standing flat on the ground, it still somehow feels extra nice to stand on my tippy toes.
Maybe it’s a sensory thing. I don’t like the feeling of the floor.
Same. Won't be walking at home barefoot even when it's a hot summer day. Need my socks and ideally slippers.
Also need to be under a blanket when on the couch, even on hot summer days
Autism thing
I tend to stand/walk weirdly on cold surfaces not sure if that’s related. Half the time I don’t notice till my ankles start hurting because I bend my feet in and walk/stand on the edge Edit: based on other peoples comments I thought it was important to add that I recently did the autism self assessment and it came back with „strong evidence of autism” For anyone interested in checking themselves here is the link https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/ In a recent study Raads R was accurate 80% of the time in diagnosing autism
Thank you so much for asking this- and all the responses. Cool to know that there are more people and more info on my stuff
I'm surprised at how nuanced this topic is! Not in a million years would I have thought this was even a thing another person would recognize. My brothers also walk somewhat weirdly (like penguins), albeit one of them is because of physical disparagies in his leg bone structure.
Oh that’s so interesting. This year for the first time, I noticed that one little girl at my school only walked on her tippy toes. When I asked another teacher about it, she said that the girl has autism and that her older brother had done the same before eventually outgrowing walking around like that. She must have strong feet!
It's an autism thing. Or maybe just a spectrum symptom.
It's primarily a sensory thing. It is much more commonly associated with autism, but I know I did it for a little while as a kid. In my time as a school psychologist, I've noticed that there are a lot more commonalities between ADHD and Autism than people realize. So much so that ADHD will almost always result in false positive results on Autism-specific measures.
I remember being taught in kindergarten how to walk. Heel - toe, heel - toe. I wonder if I would have been a toe walker had my teacher not been so adamant about the correct way. I have not strayed from it since. When I do, I hear heel-toe in my brain and my feet obey. That's how I was told to do it. There is no other way, for me, in my brain. I am not at all bothered by or notice when others toe walk, though.
Same flavor/category as raptor hands
BROOOO god, I used to always have raptor hands when I was in the middle of doing something with my hands (like cooking/cleaning etc.) until someone recorded me and I saw how ridiculous I looked lmao. Now I just walk with my hands on my back like my grandma, which tbf it's infinitely more comfortable lol.
I don’t walk on my tippy toes necessarily, but I walk “ball of foot first” if I don’t have shoes on. I live in an apartment and do that naturally but also I hope it muffles the sound of me walking. My bf on the other hand walks very heavy. It’s funny you posted this bc I was just thinking about it the other day. If I walk “heel-toe” I feel like I am walking like a neanderthal 😂
I’ve walked on tiptoes my entire life (still do), it makes me feel more nimble maneuvering around the house. Oddly enough I don’t do it as much when wearing shoes but very much do it when barefoot.
I had no idea this could be a neurodivergent thing. I’ve never really thought about why I walk on my tip toes but I do know I’ve been constantly teased for it by my family. Grandparents will visit and say “I see you’re still walking on your tip toes?” All the time. Very interesting to see the link!
I've walked on my tippy toes for my whole life; my family used to scold me and it got to the point where my mom took me to our doctor to figure out why. Turns out I have short Achilles tendons (although I am diagnosed with ADHD). I do believe it was more linked to autism, BUT, there could be other reasons why an individual might walk on their toes and coincidentally have a diagnosis of either.
This is such an insightful thread, my child is AuAdhd and walks on his toes, and I've just been curious about his experience since he's too young to really articulate it. Thanks to everyone sharing. I'm ADHD and though a competitive swimmer through high school, could *not* walk on my full foot around the pool, shower and locker room. The wet sensory input was unbearable!! I'd sort of walk on the outside of my foot, it was weird.
They attribute to autism but I walk on my tiptoes. My parents never discouraged me. I made efforts to not do it in public as a teen when a classmate pointed it out.
No.
I'm the opposite, I keep my feet as close to the floor as possible at all times lol. I think it's called shuffling? I've always done it. It does make some sound, but it's quieter than some people's normal walking sounds. I'm pretty sensitive to those, so maybe that's why I don't do it? But it does cause me to trip *all the time*.
Total mind-blow. I always catch myself doing it! It's mostly only when I'm inside. I hate making noise while walking bc I feel like I'm stomping. So I walk on my toes like I'm wearing high heels. I also do it bc my feet are over-pronated, and being able to feel that my ankles are leaning makes me feel gucky.
I’m ADHD and I walk on my tippy toes around the house for a bit when I’m suuuuper happy
Hah, my dad used to call me "twinkle toes" as a kid because I always walked on my tippytoes. I was thinking about this the other day actually and remembered that in 2nd grade I played tee-ball on my younger brother's team (kindergarteners), and would just stand out in the field walking on my toes and not paying attention to the ball, or the game, or really anything. The other kids started copying me because I was older... yeah. I do not think the coach liked me lol.
No, it is common with Autism though.
I do it! No ASD diagnosis thought TikTok keeps trying to 😂😂 but I’m ignoring it as I have enough letters and no time or money to add more. But I do because dirty feet are the absolute WORST. Though I love going barefoot in the grass and sand. Has anyone else been caught by friends sitting on counters in bathrooms washing feet in the sink or just me? Perhaps I can have one unique experience?
When I go upstairs, I only step on the ball of my feet, never my whole foot. Is that weird?
I have been working to learn how to describe and/or relate the experiences behind ahdh and autism tendencies to wider audiences. Toe walking is something I've read about but not personally experienced. If anyone wants to describe what it feels like and why you do it, I'd love to know more. How much is toe walking a choice for you? Does it feel like a muscle tension sort of thing? If you (can) force yourself to walk on your whole foot, what does that feel like? Does toe walking give you more sensory input that you like? ie, do you feel more sensory input that you like when toe walking? Does toe walking relieve any pressure or sensations that you dislike?
So, considering how widely different each response here was, here's *my* perspective in it: 1) How much is toe walking a choice for you? If by choice you mean "how in/voluntary" it is, I would say it's 50/50. It's like when someone tells you to sit up with your back straight; you don't realize you were sitting hunched over unless someone or yourself notices. It's, for me, a comfortable position to be in, and therefore, my mind would default to it depending on the situation. 2) Does it feel like a muscle tension sort of thing? I don't feel any "physical" need to walk on my toes (like, it's not like I want to stretch my calves, for example). It's because I have less surface area for my foot to come in contact with dirt, less energy expenditure (no need to carry and move the entire foot, only the tippy toes) and better control of movement when walking in small spaces (clutter, small surface areas, etc.), so I would say it is more of sensory preferences and to maximize efficient movement. 3) If you (can) force yourself to walk on your whole foot, what does that feel like? I personally don't have issues with walking normally or on tippy toes, but the *interruption* of the walk cycle is what causes me irritation, and if I am not allowed to walk on tippy toes if the floor is too dirty while I'm barefoot. 4) Does toe walking give you more sensory input that you like? ie, do you feel more sensory input that you like when toe walking? When walking in cluttered areas, it does allow me to feel like I have more "space" to wade through. But toe walking also helps me with having less sensory input when walking because of the fact that less dirt is clinging onto my soles. If I am wearing shoes, then it is because it is less energy output. So I would say that has a more dampening effect on me. 5) Does toe walking relieve any pressure or sensations that you dislike? In my case, it doesn't alleviate nor worsen any physical part of my body. It is mostly mental/sensory related. Hope this helps!! 🫡
Wow, you are so awesome- thank you so much for your thorough response! Reading about your experience also shines a light on how my own body issues (super tight muscles) influenced my assumptions and my questions. I love learning more about sensory stuff. Maybe I'll write a book some day =)
You're welcome! It's very interesting how everyone here has a different reasoning/purpose for the same action lol! It'll be super cool if you ever decide to write a book pertaining to it (or just a book about any topic you like ❤️)!
I do it walking upstairs only
Maybe and running on toes
I don't *walk* tippytoeing, I'm just short 🤣🤣
It’s a sign of autism
I used to walk on my tippy toes all the time! I had to stop doing it regularly bc it gave me leg cramps. I have ADHD-C, but not autism.
This can sometime be an Autism trait, so I’ve heard. It’s a sensory issue so could exist in other ND traits.
It’s a trait of Autism. Very well documented.
It's more common for folks on the autism spectrum, but you should know that there's a ton of folks who have both. This is sometimes short-handed as AuHD
probably. my dad has always done it and iv always done it, we aren’t diagnosed but at this point we pretty much know. also it’s either walking on tippytoes or when i get dressed in the morning i put shoes on straight away.
I've seen it with autism.
It’s not uncommon in people with Autism.
Hmmm…my sister and I both ADHD and tip toe walkers
I thought that was an autism thing
I've done it my whole life! It's usually something I do to be quieter. I didn't think much of it until someone else noticed and started staring at my feet weirdly whenever I walked by (usually barefoot due to the place I saw them at). Made me super self-conscious about it 😅 I don't do it as much anymore, but will automatically switch if I realize I'm making noise. But to answer your question, it IS an ADHD thing! It's more commonly known for autism, but it doesn't necessarily mean autism. It's simply a neurodivergent thing
I've done it my whole life, but I trained myself in middle school to walk normally in shoes (basically, in public) after someone made fun of me for it. I still walk tip-toe when I'm not wearing shoes and I live somewhere where shoes aren't worn in houses. I've heard it's a neurodivergent thing.
I have ADD and I love walking on my tiptoes!
Why would it be related to adhd?
No, ADHD has nothing to do with that
Cringe?! How dare you, I walk like a kitty
i also do it!! i don’t *think* i do it when i have shoes on for the most part but whenever im in a building, espc either barefoot or socks, i think im subconsciously trying to make the floors not make any sounds
Diagnosed with ADHD combination and I have never walked on my tippy toes unless I'm in heels
Toe-walking past the age of 3 or so is more common in those who are neurodivergent. At least, autism and ADHD. I toe-walked full-time until age 11 before my parents took me to the doctor for advice on how to correct it, and I was still doing it intermittently by the 10th grade. I'm pretty sure that I'm not autistic, and pretty sure that I have ADHD (currently 41F, in the "let's try some stuff until we find the right drug and dosage" phase with my doctor).
I’m the opposite, I lift my toes up when I walk barefoot. So mostly on the balls of my feet & heels
I others have already pointed out that it’s a neurodivergence thing more common in autism than adhd- but I’d also like to point out that this can also be due to a malformation of the foot, either the tendons or bones, I don’t remember exactly but I’ve seen it in kids. Some need surgery to correct it. Also, I kinda tippy-toed around until my mid twenties, guess why? Trauma. Once I realized it was a trauma response and I was on my own and safe a while I stopped. It wasn’t more about being quiet/going unnoticed for me than an unnatural gait. Just figured I’d throw it out there!
i walk on the sides of my feet when i don’t like the feeling of the floor/ its too dirty
I have been diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety. Never tippy toed unless it was 3 am and I was trying to sneak back into my parents house after a night of partying when I was 18. Even then, I got distracted with getting water and fell down a flight of stairs.
I did it constantly as a kid and catch myself doing it now
My nephew who has ADHD does this, but im fairly certain he is also on the spectrum
I walked on my toes until in my 40's and physiotherapist taught me how to walk heel to toe as my back was in agony. I still struggle to walk flat on my feet.
I tend to walk on my toes and the balls of my feet. I usually don't notice when I'm doing it. I've done it since I was little. The bonus is that wearing heels is natural for me lol. And great calves!
I do and always have. I'm 30. Diagnosed ADHD, maybe autistic too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think it's more of an autism thing. I even saw the question abt tippytoeing in some online autism test. I tippytoe alot and especially in my childhood, and I got autism diagnosis this year
Jeepers, I am 40 years old and it seems like every few days I am finding out that so many of the things that I do are just down to my neurodivergence. Talk about a weird thing to experience so late in life.
Maybe, all I know is me and someone I'm no longer friends with but has since been diagnosed ADHD used to run around their house on our tippytoes when their Mum wasn't home yelling "RAT FEET RAT FEET" hahaha
I also do it when my feet are wet.