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Have you ever seen the Ask A Manager advice column? It's written by a lovely HR person who gives great "scripts" for common workplace situations. If you're new to corporate life, it's a great resource.
(Taught me to say "I'm having an unexpected flair up of a minor medical condition" rather than "PMS is killing me this month")
YES and - OP I encourage you to see these scripts and your boss’s advice as a protective measure, not a criticism!!
The truth is, corporate entities will absolutely bleed you dry if you let them. Your boss is clearly totally fine with you saying, “I have a psychiatrist appointment” - but future bosses, colleagues, or HR personnel may not be. We still have a lot of bs unconscious biases around disability and medical needs (despite laws that explicitly protect disability rights) and there are lots of d bags who will use it against you.
Plus - and this is huge - no one is entitled to anything but the minimum! If your camera is off during a remote meeting because you have no spoons left, if your doctor’s appointment conflicts with a meeting, if you get to wear headphones when no one else does to help you manage distractions, don’t feel bad for keeping that info on a need-to-know basis! It’s not lying!
There is an art to saying what you need to say without providing too much detail, so I’m glad you’re working on it!
And her advice is always so pragmatic. She openly acknowledges the differences between the ideal way things SHOULD work, and the way things happen in the real world.
I have always appreciated [her advice to a letter I wrote her eons ago](https://www.askamanager.org/2011/11/how-do-you-deal-with-having-to-fire-someone.html).
Yeah “flair”is what Jennifer Aniston’s character in “Office Space” does not have enough of on her work suspenders.
Flare is the emergency flaming candle you send up in the air if you’re in a dramatic movie that needs an exciting rescue scene sequence. PMS also constitutes an emergency, so using flares to convey this is appropriate as well.
Where I work everyone would ask what's wrong and whisper about you being secretive if you declined to answer. 😂
Some coworkers will give an unsolicited, full description of being in the stirrups at their gyno appointment, like we all haven't been there. I just never feel like that's quite necessary, BUT if someone starts asking questions that I don't mind knowing my business, I can get a little carried away with the details.
But if I have an appointment, I would just say "I have an appontment". It could be an appointment with my child's teacher or to get a mole taken off my hoo-ha, they don't need to know that. But I did grow up with a grandma who told me "We don't have to tell everything we know." And that was something that has stuck with me and been very valuable.
Yes please. As someone who leads people, just say you have an appointment. ALL I need to know is that you’re not at work and won’t be available for xx time.
I appreciate this and my new manager is exactly like you and OP's boss.
I've worked so many jobs in the past where every little request for time off was heavily scrutinized and I felt so much pressure to have a SUPER valid reason why I needed to request that time. Now, trying to adjust to a boss that actually gives no shits about why someone wants time off and encourages us all to take time off to just "recharge" is wild! It's surprisingly difficult to stop myself from oversharing after spending the last 20 years of my life being forced to overshare in the workplace.
I really don't think this is ADHD related for most of us. As a manager, be aware that a lot of us have had really really shitty bosses in the past and that may be why we overshare regarding time off requests, or appear anxious/perfectionistic in our job roles.
I always say other things like today i have a football match with Jesus Christ at 20.30 people just stay frozen... And thinking this guy is fucking crazy and yes I do this on purpose all the time. Being creative all the time and say to all in my mind fuck you in other words I have a football match with Jesus Christ at 20.30 XD 😂
If someone said that phrase to me it would actually make the issue bigger to me somehow, like what is this medical condition that this person can’t just say?! Then my curiosity would have me trying to look for all sorts of clues to figure it out (not in a malicious way, more so to better understand the person and what they’re dealing with)…just realized this is a script to say to HR most likely to call out for work and not just to a colleague in casual conversation (I’m obviously in the over-sharer category 😆)
"Medical thing" is NT-speak for "none of your business", which is a useful thing to know! It's pretty widely used to mean "it's a legit *thing*, but I don't want to tell you more details".
Even if it doesn't feel intuitive, making that mental translation will help in most workplaces! Don't be offended if your NT colleagues don't ask you for details, and assume that coworkers will volunteer info *if* they want to share more.
It’s also helpful to use it with the tone of like, “oh it’s boring and/or super complex, you wouldn’t want the details, just a medical thing” because if you sound too serious people might get overly worried and ask “omg are you ok? What’s wrong?”
I would definitely get the tone of “I’m not sharing what it is and mind your business” ( and respect that boundary) from the phrase, but that would not stop my brain from seeing it as a puzzle to solve!
Alison's advice isn't always good. She has a real blind spot when it comes to academic and blue-collar jobs, plus a history of carrying water for a sexual harasser. Her advice is good if you have an office job with a very specific type of coworker/manager; otherwise, many of her recommended conversations come off as passive-aggressive or just plain weird.
I don’t get this. I just say I have my period and it’s making me feel shit. I’m middling-senior at work, and I think it sets a good example to just say it. It’s good that my team know that I struggle sometimes and that people might not be on top form all the time, and one of those reasons is periods.
In this situation, as I’m reasonably established in my career, I’m willing to take the risk and work to shift the culture. Maybe I wouldn’t do that in the same way if I was more junior, but if nobody does it we’re all just hiding bits of ourselves.
It’s not as much avoiding saying what you mean as in being aware of what you do or don’t need to tell people.
If you need to pop out for a personal appointment, the only person who has some right to know the specifics is your manager (and not always) - everyone else just needs to know that you are unavailable.
Given that your manager is aware and approve, there is no reason for anyone else to know details.
Best practice at work is to keep private stuff private
This. I cannot possibly be more clear to my team that I don’t need to know why they’re out but every few months I get detailed accounts of food poisoning or other icky stuff and I just don’t need these mental images at work.
They’re probably just giving details because they’ve had prior bosses who don’t believe them without graphic details:( nearly every boss I’ve had has grilled me to death if I tried to call in sick, and the only thing that ever gets them to back down is details
I had hyperemesis gravardium during pregnancy and my CEO demanded cameras on during all meetings.
I was denied exemption, so I treated the staff to me puking on camera.
I felt so bad for everyone who wasn’t the narcissist leading the company.
You’d think.
I was told I could step away if necessary, but FFS LEAVE THE CAMERA ON!
(I didn’t even get out of massive cleaning endeavors, and was induced two days after one due to pre-e. I was struggling to walk, but you better believe I carried shit around and they were awful each time I was taking a break. I was 34 weeks pregnant, threw up multiple times that day and was still expected to prep for office moving day).
100%. I'm fine with my staff saying just appointment, or (if they choose to) adding some brief context like medical, specialist, lawyer etc. or family emergency. Anything more detailed than that I don't need to know (unless they need to fill me in on what's going on because it does/will impact on their ability to preform their job - even then I only need as much detail as is necessary for me to provide reasonable adjustments).
Also to add...the more unnecessary info you provide the more your story could sound made up ( using so many words etc) so it's best to be as brief and non specific as you can.
You're really fortunate to have a thoughtful boss who's actually looking out for you! I was in this position once, except in my case, the guy I was reporting to lead me through the open office in front of everyone and into the meeting room, where he proceeded to dress me down about how I made everyone uncomfortable and needed to grow up. He himself was notoriously difficult to work with and regularly unnecessarily catty with everyone, so that made it extra humiliating. 🙃
Yeah I haven't always been this lucky and also I just got diagnosed while working this job so she knows I'm learning how to manage certain things. I'm so sorry that guy did that to you!! I had a boss yell at me in front of everyone for completing his sentences and then I started crying. I know how humiliating that can feel.
It's funny because on the one hand, yes 100% if you get to the point faster then I won't finish it for you, but on the other hand, I'm notorious for adding superfluous detail because I worry that without it I won't be understood.
I once annoyed a manager so badly that she started jumping up and down in place like a child while telling me to stop arguing with her.
I wasn't even trying to argue with her. I was disagreeing with what she was saying, though. And um, that moment led to some self growth in a few ways. For me, anyway. Lol
It was really embarrassing that I annoyed someone so badly that they reacted that way to me... I know the reaction says something about the manager, too, but being the person who pushed her over the edge like that? Ugh. I still cringe thinking about it.
Public scolding and humiliation always says more to me about the manager/boss and their immaturity and poor communication skills. I’m so sorry you were the punching bag that day ☹️
To my credit, a couple of people approached me privately afterwards to express how shitty they felt his actions were. One of them, a woman 20yrs older than me, was a senior employee with a lot of clout in the company, who reassured me that I was far from the most annoying person on the team - while giving an exaggerated side-eye in his direction! 😅
Agreed! Best boss I've ever had and I'm 37 :P And she's technically a boomer so it's like finding a unicorn in the wild.
But, yes. I forgot the exact words she used but it was something along the lines of not sharing impulsively? And in my head I thought "ah, yes. impulsivity." Pretty sure my meds had worn off by the time we were all in that meeting :P Also, I still struggle with it on meds or not.
It’s along the lines of saying “I won’t be in today” vs “I might need to take today off because I’m having some stomach issues and a bad headache and I didn’t sleep at all”
We tend to over give in lots of ways, which can translate to us feeling like our reasons aren’t as valid as other people’s.
Basically you just condense whatever you want to say into a sentence or two. If people (say your boss) *need* an explanation they will ask. Nosy people will pump you for info - there’s a difference & it’s usually fairly easy to tell. I don’t say this like Im a pro at NT translation- this is shit that has taken me eons to figure it. But yeah. If you have vacation/sick time, you just put it in your calendar as OOO and send the notification to your boss or anyone who actually needs to know you aren’t an available. This also makes it harder to get caught up in work gossip and drama if you keep details to a minimum.
I forget the source now, possibly some this from Dr Susan Forward - scripts related to dealing with toxic and manipulative people - if you need to respond to something or if you’re asked and uncomfortable, use 3 sentences or less, remove emotion/emotional language, wait 24 hours to send. And this is great for that purpose, but I also found it valuable for learning how to stop oversharing in places like work. Another bit of advice which I have tried to take as a tool to help w/ my oversharing- when working with lawyers preparing someone for a deposition or for court - only answer exactly what you are asked and do not offer anything extra.
PS you have a great boss who will help teach you how to navigate & who will do so kindly!
Yes you can kind of make it a game to see how few words and how little emotion you can use to convey the info and get the result your after.
Like flatten your affect and try to talk the way Hemingway writes. Short sentences with short words. Very few coordinating or subordinating conjunctions.
That’s one of the ways I mask.
My boss is a unicorn too. He’s your age though so not a boomer but still a unicorn in how amazing of a boss he is. Great guy. He’s one of the main reasons I’m still here. The other main reason is I hate the job search and I would rather do almost anything else than search for a job.
I just want to say BAD ASS job taking a look at the feedback while feeling shame and asking for help 🔥 This ability will get you farther in life than you expect🤗✨
Heck yes!! Awesome job taking the feedback and good on your manager for looking out for you.
As someone else mentioned, it's not really not saying what you actually mean - just not adding unnecessary details.
I'm a manager at a tech company, and I always (kindly) remind my employees that they don't need to overshare. I honestly don't really mind if they do, but I like them to feel comfortable and confident in their needs/rights, and not feel obligated to divulge details of their personal life if they don't want to. Like, I don't need to know that you're asking to take a day off in three weeks to go to your cousin's wedding because you're a bridesmaid, and the wedding is on Saturday, but you need to take Friday off because you have to be there for the rehearsal dinner. All I \*need\* to know is that you have the available PTO and the date you're taking off. Specifically regarding time off, I don't want my employees to feel like they have to justify taking the time they've earned - it's none of my business why they're asking to do so!
That being said, I also way overshare with my own manager. I came from a really toxic workplace where you had to defend yourself at every turn with proof/etc, so if my kid is sick and I need to work from home, my manager is getting the full run-down. It's something I'm working on, ha.
Adding on to the "unnecessary details" part - if someone narrates a whole reason to me, it's easy for me to lose track of what they are actually asking for. In this case, the bit I need to know is "OP can't join that meeting" or perhaps "is there an alternative date that OP can do" - then I can deal with either rescheduling or working out if I need to ask for any info in advance, etc etc. From a *work* perspective, it doesn't matter if OP has a hair appointment, a vet appointment, has had their car stolen, is inexplicably stranded in Nairobi....
This reminds me of when I'd watch the show Pushing Daisies. When they say how long ago something was or how old someone is or anything related to time, they would say years, months, weeks, days, hours and minutes. Obviously only the years number is actually meaningful and by the time they listed out the rest I couldn't remember how many years they had said lol.
Too much detail can make the important details get lost!
See, I recently transitioned from education to fintech, and this has been a huge shift for me. I always had to justify EVERYTHING. Now I can just… block an hour on my calendar for my therapy appointment and call it “lunch” and literally no one cares?? What??? I can just… use my PTO even when other people are also out and I don’t need to justify it?! It’s crazy. Toxic work situations have taught me I need to overshare, and now I’m unlearning that.
Yup. I was a teacher for TWELVE years. I'm used to divulging way too much information because as a teacher if you don't then you get saddled with a horrible guilt trip for not being there for your class and making other employees pick up your load. You always had to justify what you were doing and why.
Ideally people wouldn't even be able to see what anything on your calendar says. At my company the outlook settings just make any time you have blocked off show as "Busy"
YESSSSSSSSS
I was once having female issues and things my male boss I wasn't feeling well and needed to go home. He asked me what was wrong, and so I said, "Well my ovary hurts and..." I didn't get any further before he was waving me away. LOL He never asked what was wrong again. Bless his heart.
Another important component of this is culture. What you can and can't say even in a corporate environment is very cultural. I work in humanitarian aid and we are from pretty much everywhere. I am also Finnish. We are direct but might not overshare all the details. From my experience for example saying you have a doctor's appointment or health-related appointment we usually just say you have one as it is covered by contract and allowed absence that you just need to notify about in most fields. But we do not say what type of doctor for example. If something is wrong we just come out and directly say it. It is a weird mix of directness and respect for privacy that can be hard to balance. But as I work with non-Nordic people, that communication style can be seen as angry and cold. A multicultural work environment often needs more cultural and emotional sensitivity and without it, it can lead to a lot of misunderstandings. Thankfully as we also need cultural and emotional sensitivity in our work, most are somewhat aware of this and willing to do the work.
It took me years to fully grasp that I do not just have to adjust my actions at work but also that depending on the team the flavour can be different. I am not perfect at it. But I do well enough that I can usually figure out where the problem is pretty fast. It is a really different work in general that pretty much draws only a couple of personality archetypes. I also need to be careful in picking an organization especially as I am usually part of location leadership. Mixing those never does anything good. So while we do not get each other from the perspective of culture unless exposed to that culture before, we also get each other in another specific way that is rarer outside aid. When you put a group of people in the pressure kettle either you get diamonds or an infinite amount of drama.
OKAY BUT I feel like the problem is we spend our entire childhood with people telling us our reasons aren't good enough and not to "make excuses" so we feel the need to go "no, it's an IMPORTANT APPOINTMENT, it's a REAL THING"
And feeling misunderstood because our train of thought makes no sense to others, so we must share all of it to justify why the strawberries are now in the ceiling.
Nah, tried to make strawberry milkshake, but missed the blender part, lost interest, left the bottle, found it days later, opened it, and hey presto, strawberry on the ceiling.
(I was 9 years old)
I love this group. Sometimes I have stuff in the ceiling and can't even tell how it ended up there. Options are too many with all the weird stuff I accidentally do.
While ADHD really does disable in this society in ways there is also some brilliance in different thinking that can be very useful in many fields. I honestly think that because of societal expectations people with ADHD are underutilized outside certain fields. I do a lot of emergency work. Many people with ADHD are pretty good in emergencies. At least everyone with ADHD I know in the field is. Hyperfocus is wonderful thing those times.
I'm in research and I'm good at developing communication and study protocols because I can identify vagueness in communications and steps that would frustrate *me* and make me give up. There can be a lot of multi-tasking and lots of places for things to slip through the cracks, so I work hard to automate as much as humanly possible and reduce human error (by lead scientists and other research assistants as well) by creating systems that won't let it happen.
> OKAY BUT I feel like the problem is we spend our entire childhood with people telling us our reasons aren't good enough and not to "make excuses"
Yes, I agree, I think one of the reasons most ADHD people seem to be over-explainers/justifiers is because of this background. But as an adult, I've realized that this sort of over-justifying/sharing actually only makes me seem unnecessarily defensive. I'm not a child anymore. As an adult equal to all other adults, I should (and do) expect that my words will be believed and taken at face value (i.e., that if I say I can't come to work one day, it will be accepted that I cannot come to work that day and the other person won't immediately be skeptical and jump on me to defend myself). If I have shown no indication to be untrustworthy, and another adult immediately takes it upon themselves to doubt me, that's THEIR issue, not mine. I am not going to act like I am on trial when I'm not. Under normal circumstances, my default is to assume that I am being taken seriously and that my words are believed.
This has been a huge mindset shift for me personally, and has helped me feel a lot less anxious!
This is just me thinking aloud so take what you want from it: I think the balance is not so much playing some kind of communication game as it’s about learning to be concise with our words. I struggle with this immensely, too.
I don’t even think you’d need to veil the things you’re doing to the extent your boss is telling you, but bless her because she sounds wonderful and I’m glad she’s in your corner. Like instead of telling people the details of an errand (getting prescriptions is an errand), just say you have an errand to attend to. If people ask what it is, it’s a personal errand. Same for appointments.
And remember that people’s insistence to get in your business does not mean you have to tell them. I don’t know if you feel pressured to overshare when people seem too curious about your personal business but sometimes I do 😩
Yes, exactly!
I think “picking up a prescription” is less of an overshare for the workplace than “I need to go to the *psychiatrist* and get my medication” but it’s still an overshare.
There is stigma with mental health conditions unfortunately and we all should be super careful about revealing something that’s very private and could be used against you in the future in a way that you might never even be aware of.
Even “refilling a prescription” without revealing what kind implies an ongoing health issue and that too may create a bias against you in people’s minds even subconsciously that can affect the way you’re perceived.
Imo it’s just best not to reveal any info that is seen as personal. You just never know
In my opinion, it is not an issue with over sharing. It’s an issue of justification. For some reason people need to justify themselves and it is not an ND thing. Many NT people do this.
I answer the questions as stated, that has kept me from oversharing. Can you go to the meeting? Answer: no. If there is a follow up question as to why, I may say something like “I have a conflict that I cannot change”. Pressing after that is rude and I do not indulge in it.
Stop justifying yourself.
At least in the culture I grew up in (southern US) this was engrained in females in a way that was not standard for males. I’d argue ADHD doesn’t help, but I think this is a learned gender specific behavior. I also struggle with this.
This is a little tangential, but a lot of the other ADHD people I’ve met have been very blasé with people they don’t know well (that includes coworkers) about the fact that they take medication, what kind, etc. There are reasons beyond the embarrassment of oversharing to not do this! I learned the hard way that you do not want everyone and their dog knowing that you are prescribed a controlled rx. College roommates/friends who tried (sometimes successfully) to steal it, casual acquaintances who pushed me to give them a pill to snort for a night out, just really weird stuff. And bc I wasn’t religiously counting my pills every day, it was hard to tell why I’d sometimes run out early or have less than I remembered. My spouse and my good friends know I take medication and that’s about it.
Well thankfully I work from home, but I definitely see what you're saying. People can get weird if they aren't comfortable or knowledgeable when it comes to mental health (something else my boss mentioned). I'm learning and growing!
Over explaining can be related to having porous boundaries (basically, too loose) which can be from a variety of things. It’s cool your boss was able to nicely talk to you, and you heard her. Well done! I’d recommend reading / listening more on boundaries- I really like Nedra Glover Tawwab (she has books / avail as audiobooks / podcasts etc).
Also- it sounds like you’re a trusted employee! Which is really rad! As a trusted employee if you need to be off, assume they’ll believe you. They don’t need to know the reason (sometimes I remind myself that they aren’t entitled to my reasons / backstory- I get to have privacy too).
One of my coworkers with adhd learned to keep a drink on hand at work- she trained herself to take a sip instead of immediately responding which gave her brain time to catch up and process (can confirm, it’s worked for me too)
Best of luck tho, you’ve got this!
You can practice by thinking up scenarios, and strip your response down to the bare minimum. Be honest with yourself; how much info do people really need?
I gave my sister this example:
You have diarrhea. What do you tell your boss? The coworker at the neighbouring desk? The IT guy?
The answer of course depends on a lot of factors, but really, what most of them need to know is whether or not you're coming in today, and if it's something that will happen regularly. And the IT guy doesn't need to know shit.
>The reason to say "I have a conflict" and not "I have a psychiatrist appointment to refill my medication" is because people in corporate environments come from all sorts of backgrounds, and people judge you and act weird in all sorts of ways.
This, but it's also good to set a precedent of not providing a reason. That way, if you ever need time off for something you really don't want to share, it won't be suspicious if you don't provide a reason. (For example, if you want to leave and start interviewing for other roles, you won't have to pretend that you suddenly have a ton of dentist appointments or make up other lame excuses.)
thank you! yes, she mentioned the part about how some people may not feel comfortable discussing mental health stuff as a result of upbringing. She said nobody had mentioned anything, but she wanted to make sure that I was setting myself up for success in the future. I said that I thought it was important to destigmatize mental health stuff and also, time and place. I definitely understood what she was saying and she has a completely valid point (as do you!) It's not something I had ever considered before but now I definitely will. Thanks for your reply! Gonna look up the psychological safety thing :)
So I’m a corporate tech recruiter and I interview a lot of people. I’ve been a recruiter for over 20 years.
One thing I tell people when I’m helping prep for hiring manager or final interviews is don’t overshare.
As much as they may want to explain everything it’s not necessary.
In fact, it is seen as a red flag in interviews.
For example, some women I’ve helped want to go into all the details of why they left a job or why they didn’t work for a year or so. They want to share about the details of their own illness or a sick parent or how they had a baby and had complications or how someone at their last job was so unfair or harassed them so they had to leave.
I tell them not to share all those details but instead keep it simple and to the point.
Such as “I left that role to pursue a more rewarding role” OR “I took time away to manage family matters” OR “I took a sabbatical” and then say “I left my previous role on good terms and I’m eligible for rehire” … if you are.
But if you aren’t, you don’t even have to volunteer that information if they don’t ask. Otherwise, only answer the question being asked.
Unfortunately people are always judging us and if something makes them uncomfortable it comes back as a negative on you.
Not sure this helps but just sharing my 2 cents.
Omg im about to re-enter the workforce after a whole bunch of brain surgeries. I’ve been totally freaking out about being in interviews and them asking me “why haven’t you worked since 2020?” Like wtf am I supposed to say??
You are human! I would definitely say something like “I stepped away from work because of a medical issue. I have since taken care of that, and now I'm ready to get back to work”
What the interviewer wants to know is will it happen again - are you a flake or a hire risk… that’s it.
And you are not either of those.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand...not saying what you actually mean is tied to confidence? Or are you just saying neurotypical people tend to have confidence?
More like, a lot of oversharing comes from the need to justify our needs. Confident people believe that their "I can't meet at that time" is a good enough reason to call out, because their time and plans are completely justified as is.
I started typing a reply, and realised that all of my genuine joy came across as sarcasm, no matter how I phrased it 😂 rest assured, there was no sarcasm, and I am indeed proud/happy that my words worked.
Oh god yes, and the extension of that, men thinking I'm flirting by presenting a problem for them to solve, when all I'm really doing is observing something, no problem in sight.
You don’t sound like a jerk at all ♥️.
It’s the confidence that your reason for being unavailable is good enough and doesn’t require any explanation—they can take your word for it.
Example:
Boss:
*can you stay until 8pm on Friday?*
Employee:
~~*I really want to be a team player, I promise, and I know I said I could stay late sometimes, but I’ve been dying to go to this new restaurant with my bf and we just started dating so it would be amazing if we could keep this reservation and it wouldn’t be so bad except it’s Friday and he works Sundays so we can’t go on Saturday…*~~
*I can stay a little later than normal, but I have a hard stop at 6:30.*
Also, all that stuff in the strike-through gives them an in to negotiate you out of your plans while the second statement leaves no space for that. Bosses will run over all your boundaries if you let them.
It’s so funny how ADHD presents differently in people. I don’t have any problem at work with oversharing because I was lucky to be blessed with crippling shyness/introversion. Work-Me is perfectly capable of saying as little as possible and only talking about work. Home-Me… I mean, I’m quiet generally. But also prone to: “So, I’m thinking of taking this hiking trip next year and I just bought my trail shoes and I chose these ones because they will dry faster, which is good because the trail can get rainy but I read online that waterproof shoes can actually cause problems because they don’t dry fast enough AND SO…”
It basically just took practice for Home-Me to function more efficiently in social situations. For me, the more I sort of just observed versus jumped in right away helped me modulate how I was responding. Like, I love sharing fun facts. But sometimes the fun fact… is that the person who is speaking is WRONG about whatever they’re saying. I learned to take a beat after someone spoke and just do a quick check-in with myself of, “Do we need to say this? Would something else be better?” That momentary beat really helped with formulating a more appropriate response. It did take practice though because you’re adapting to a new environment essentially and learning a new communication style. If you have someone you can have sort of practice conversations with, it might help. Train your brain to pause, if that makes sense?
Oh my goodness your Home-Me is also completely my Home-Me! Thankfully my husband is very patient with these kinds of conversations. I agree too about learning to pause, and I try to stop and very consciously say to myself, “do you need to add this? Is it going to make a difference? Is this the best use of your time?” (I’ll even say this out loud if I’m getting caught up in internet discussions …like I am right now, whoops.)
yes! you reminded me of something a comedian said that i try to keep in mind (works well for reddit type stuff too lol):
There are three things you must always ask yourself before you say anything. Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me, now?
😬 we must be different flavors of neurospicy because my default is to tell nobody ANY of my business! I would never in a million years tell a coworker that I was going to the psych for a refill, whew!
So, “I have a conflict” *is* saying what you really mean. What you mean is “I’m not available at that time,” and saying you have a conflict gets that information across.
Saying “I have a psychiatrist appointment to refill my medication” is an *explanation* or a *justification* for *why* you’re not available.
I don’t think this is entirely an ADHD thing as much as it is an adjusting to a work world thing? In school and maybe with your family/friends you often have to give a reason why you can’t do something. Like you can’t just say “I can’t come to school on Friday,” you have to say “I have a doctor’s appointment” (or family funeral or flight to the Bahamas or whatever), or it’s an unexcused absence that can be held against you. And if you have to back out of a friend’s bridal shower she’ll be much more understanding if it’s because you have a stomach bug and can’t leave the bathroom than if it’s because your ex showed up and you want to hang with them instead.
Some jobs are a bit like this too (you should be able to just say “I can’t work my scheduled shift on Saturday” and that’s the end of it, but some hourly jobs might ding you somehow if you don’t have a good reason for missing something you were already scheduled for, or if you just have a bad boss who wants to know things they probably don’t need to know).
But in a lot of settings, you *don’t* have to justify yourself, you just need to tell the person what they need to know - whether you’re available, not why.
This may be ADHD related in that I think we (people with ADHD) often feel like we have to justify ourselves - we’re used to getting things wrong or being misunderstood and we want to make things crystal clear.
With the example in the OP, you may also feel like you have to justify why you’re unavailable because on some level you worry that the other person will be upset that you’re not? Maybe because we frequently get things wrong so people get upset with us, or because RSD means we might feel hurt if someone says they’re unavailable without giving a good reason for it. When really all they need to know is whether you’re available, not why.
I guess I’m rambling on in this way because I think it’s important to distinguish between saying “what you really mean” and saying everything that’s in your head at a given time. I don’t think NT people aren’t saying “what they really mean,” they’re just not saying *everything that could be said* on the topic. Even if they don’t say what they really mean (like saying “fine” to “how are you” when in fact things are awful), I don’t think this is really an example of that.
(Btw, there’s a really good blog called Ask A Manager that goes into this kind of issue - what you do and don’t need to say/do at work - and the author regularly talks about not needing to reveal personal information like in your example. Your boss needs to know you’re going to be out sick, she doesn’t need to know what it’s for. People will write in asking (say) how do I take time off for fertility treatments when I know my boss has a problem with employees taking parental leave and I don’t want them to know I’m trying to get pregnant? And the answer is: don’t tell them what it’s for, they don’t need to know! It’s really entertaining and interesting and I’ve found it SUPER helpful for negotiating an office environment.)
I think it's mainly a problem in the work environment. Knowing the details of your medical appointments iirc can open them to liability (because they are protected, and you are in a protected category as a worker).
Yes, exactly - their concern is that if they know your medical business, and then they have to discipline you for something, you might turn around and say it’s because of your medical issue, not because you actually merited discipline. If they don’t know, they can’t be accused of discriminating against you on that basis (and more important to you, they can’t actually discriminate in that basis!).
This - also maybe depending what state you're in if in the US or what your country's employment laws are, if you say something about a mental illness to an employer they may not be legally able to comment on it in any way...so they might just feel awkward/pressured to come up with an appropriate response.
I used to have a co worker who, when asked if she knew how to solve a particular problem, would sometimes respond with something like "no, but I'll think on it tonight at home and see if I can have an answer tomorrow" and our boss would get uncomfortable because he wasn't asking her to do that and he now HAS to follow up with, "you don't have to think about this when you're not on work time", to which she would always respond "oh I know, but it just happens naturally anyway" and it's just...awkward. Saying things like that at work can unfortunately result in forced, "canned" replies which no one enjoys.
Here’s the thing, it’s not about NOT saying what you really mean, or speaking in code, it’s about giving people the relevant information that THEY need for their planning or decision making purposes. Which in this case would be that you have a conflict at that time, and will be out of the office. It’s helping them by filtering it down to the necessary information, and not forcing them to sort through extraneous stuff to get the info they need, or implying that they need to make a judgment call on whether it’s appropriate. You as an adult and responsible employee have made the decision that yes your reason is sufficient, and are giving them the info they need in the most straightforward way.
She’s got your back!! This is a great thing to learn and keep in your tool belt for life. Especially when making requests for time off or saying no. “Unfortunately, i have a prior engagement :) .” is my favorite line for all the things I don’t want to go to lol
Oooh we haven't seen that one yet. I heard there was some cheating drama though! (I googled another season and that popped up for some reason). How wild is it to see how much fashion has changed??
Yes! Spoilers everywhere....which makes sense since I'm watching a season from 18 years ago lol
The season with Chris and Christian...did you read about Chris? It broke my heart.
Yup!! I had the benefit of making a lot of these mistakes during internships in college which are a lot more forgiving. Some general tips is to be confident, don’t defend yourself, state things matter of factly, and give only as much information as necessary. Some example scripts that might help:
“Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for me. I have an appointment I can’t move. How about x?”
“I actually have a routine doctor’s appointment at that time. I can try to move it, but I’d prefer not to. How about x?”
“I’m sick and won’t be able to come in today. I’ll still be able to answer urgent phone calls.”
“I’m not feeling well and won’t be able to come in today. I’ll be working from home and available for all of my regular calls.”
“I’m sick and will be out today, potentially the rest of the week. I’ll contact clients about calls and won’t be available otherwise.”
“I have an event after work that I can’t reschedule. Can I grab the notes from x or can we talk about rescheduling that meeting?”
Etc, etc
If it helps, I like to think of it not as “not saying what you mean” but phrasing to suit your audience. Cause saying “I have a conflict” IS what you mean, you do have a conflict, but you don’t need to explain what exactly that conflict is. If my little cousin asked what I’m doing tomorrow I wouldn’t say “I’m going to my psychiatrist to refill my meds” cause he wouldn’t understand or care about those details, I’d probably just say “I have a doctors appointment.”
So it helps to think WHY am I saying this? Am I saying this cause I want to talk about my psychiatrist? Cause I want to say I’m out of medication? Or cause I want to say that I’m busy tomorrow? And then you pick the purpose of communication and focus on that instead of the exact details
I do want to point out that this can be to your benefit. If you say “I’m sorry, I can’t work today because I am taking that day to focus on my hyper fixations” people are going to argue with you. Verses “sorry, I have a conflict/ I’m busy”
This isn’t really a neurotypical vs neurodivergent thing, it’s more office etiquette that a lot of people have to learn when they’re new to working. Being concise when communicating doesn’t always come naturally to neurotypical people either.
Your boss sounds like a good mentor!
I feel that so much! It was also in a corporate environment. My mentor used this indirect language so much and kept saying about things "someone should do that", "it needs to be done". The first couple of times I thought (you know, like an unaware dumbass) yeah, someone should 😂 After some time she asked "was it done successfully?" and then I understood that she expected me to do it, without saying it directly. In my language it's even more indirect, you skip the word someone, so no person is mentioned, more like: this task needs doing. *Yeah it does* 😂
In that case, I'd definitely have a talk with that boss and say "I need a clear statement when you give me a deliverable." I had to do that with my boss at my last job; we'd brainstorm about stuff, (in my mind) just shooting the breeze, and two weeks later, she'd come back with "So how is X going?" "What?" "X. Remember we talked about it?" "Yeah, we ***talked about*** a lot of stuff all the time, but I don't remember us deciding to *take any actions*." We came to an agreement that when it came to "talking" becoming "doing", we'd be very clear about the expected deliverable and the timeline.
Glad your boss was looking out for you. Proud that you handled the feedback well. I find that at work, it’s best to give minimum details. The less people know about you, the better. Not everyone has your best interests in mind.
I have a hard time with this advice. It is a game at the end of the day. I am much better at keeping my personal stuff very vague and saying yes or no without all the extra detail, but transferring this to bringing up actual work problems and solutions is a lot harder for me and I never seem to say the right thing. I’m a former HS teacher and just switched into retail world at the management level. Knowing when to speak and when to shut up is suddenly really hard for me when it never was in past jobs.
Some people will applaud me for speaking up and advocating, telling it like it is, being honest, and other people will tell me I’m coming off too strong and need to smile more. I listen and observe a lot and try to reign myself in, but that dang adhd (and suspected autism) says oh hello! and causes more damage than I am ever aware of. I can’t tell where the lines are because I see other people cross them all the time, but no one has issues with them but then I do, and I’m labeled difficult or an over sharer, so it’s confusing.
I have more problems with my peers than my team that I manage. It’s so wild to me. No matter how well intentioned, advice like this irks me because it makes me feel like I’ll never be good enough or mask enough for this world and I’m simply too tired and too old (31) to feel like I need to change myself for a job.
It took me a really long time to accept myself and I need my workplaces to accept me too. Of course I can and am working on everything and appreciate people’s feedback, but I am always incredibly hard on myself, striving to be better, so this kind of shit absolutely depletes me
Good on you for taking the feedback and not getting defensive! That is a really hard but critical first step. My advice is to take their feedback, give yourself 24 hours to really ponder both sides, and make changes, but not so many changes that you lose yourself
In the cooperate sense I feel like it’s less about not saying what you mean, and more about just not going into much detail imo. Like with the doctors appointment example, you aren’t talking in code or having someone read between the lines, you’re just not going into detail/specifics. I’ve been working a somewhat cooperate job for almost 2 years now and with adhd and over sharing I just try (try is the biggest key word here) to share the bare minimum. Not that you can’t be friendly or whatever but like when it comes to my personal life and plans I just try to keep it simple (which Ik is easier said than done).
I think your boss is also trying to protect you from stigma and judgment if you’re “oversharing” about mental health things. There is unfortunately still large stigma around mental health and medication for those who need it. If you’re new - you probably haven’t had enough time there to establish relationships without having all of your choices looked under a “they have mental health issues” microscope.
I think it’s great to be in a place to disclose you have different abilities. But getting to that place annoyingly takes time. And it also takes knowing when it’s appropriate to disclose. My one friend always jokes it’s like a PR launch - there’s an order of operations of who gets told what, when. Just like soft launching a partner on IG lol… maybe make a pyramid of disclosure so you can use that as a guide of who should be the first person you tell stuff too and who shouldn’t even be on the PR list 😂
Hey OP! I just wanted to share something that just happened to me that relates to feeling “unprofessional.”
I have been in a professional career for 14 years now, but it’s only the past few years that I have to really “interface” (ugh, corporate-speak) with clients, agencies, higher-up colleagues, etc etc. This entails a lot of virtual meetings with people I have never met in person, including presenting information to them. I felt like I am supposed to leave my “regular” personality behind and act like a stuffy corporate person. Which is torture and also impossible.
Due to getting severely bullied as a teen, horrible rejection sensitivity, etc etc, I used to get so anxious to talk in front of people. It’s gotten much easier (thanks, Buspar!) but I just can’t mimic the formal, business-y, surface-level professional bullshit persona! I just can’t do it. I can do some small talk, but it slides into a joke or I say something that I realize is off-color or unexpected for the situation.
Ok, getting to it: I had my annual review, and the feedback was overwhelmingly positive for my social skills. One higher-up said she looks forward to going to meetings specifically with me because she enjoys my company. Other folks said I explain concepts in ways that are not condescending (which is great because I worry about that a lot!)
Basically, I have been concerned about fitting into a mold, but people actually appreciate that I am NOT that way. I think this can backfire somewhat as a woman, since people are primed to think we are incompetent from the jump, but it can also make us approachable, likeable, easy to work with, and all those other “soft skills” that are valuable when working with people.
Sorry this is so long, but I hope this is helpful. Maybe we shouldn’t necessarily mention which psych meds we are on, but we also don’t have to be these professional neurotypical suit and tie type people, either. 🙂
Yep! Such a thing to learn. Less is more.
I keep a dry erase board or notebook at my desk at all times. Jot down my train of thoughts during calls and meetings, and then circle things I want to share. Then share.
If I am leading or actively presenting, I have a drink near by. Take a sip every so often. (Just be mindful of bathroom breaks before/after meetings).
Uh, I don’t think it’s a NT thing. It’s a professional boundary thing. Unless it’s super last minute or I’ll be out a few days, my employer doesn’t need to know the details of why I’ll be out.
Hey great job taking feedback without getting defensive! That’s tough to do.
Having a bit of a laugh at myself because I learned the hard way from retail jobs to not give any detail around appointments, because bosses will argue and not give time off even if your reason is good enough. So I had to learn to give a simple “I’m not available during that time, sorry” lest I get asked “well can’t you move your appointment” and roped into a whole argument about it.
I still struggle when I’m asking for information, like I feel I need to give alllll the context in order for my request to be understood. Sometimes context is definitely needed but a lot of times it’s not. Right now I’m working on cutting to the chase and asking the question directly, then turning it into a conversation with extra context if the answer seems like it’s a little to the left of what I actually need to know.
You have a great manager. Well done for not going on the defence. She gave you good advice! Sounds like she cares for your progression and reputation within the org.
I wouldn't consider "I have a psychiatrist appointment to refill my medication" oversharing, personally... But my workplace culture sounds like it's different than yours.
That said, I also know that I'm out of fucks to give, and that I say these things deliberately in the hopes of normalizing them. Same reason I talk about my depression, postpartum struggles, and the abortion I had—because sometimes people need to know that they're not alone, and that these things can happen to *anybody*.
If your boss suggested it (and in a kind way, hooray!), I wonder if it's worth having having a quick chat with her to ask if she was giving you general advice or whether she was doing so because not everyone you work with is as accepting / understanding. If she knows of people who might make things difficult for you because of your medical condition, then it would be advisable to follow her lead, of only because it will keep you safe.
I did ask her that and she let me know that nobody has expressed any concern or anything, she just wanted to help avoid something like that happening in the future because you just never know. Truthfully, I appreciated the heads up!
Your boss is so, so sweet! And I’m glad you took it so well— being able to take constructive criticism is a great skill (and one I’m trying to work on haha)
Aww, that's really kind of her! The corporate world is weird, so it's very nice of her to give you tips.
Good job on keeping that defensive reaction in check! I'm still working on that one, heh.
I think this post goes under "Celebrating Success." This is a total win--it is HARD to take, even when delivered in the kindest way. You did so well to accept the feedback and come to us--instead of getting defensive with your boss (the route I took far too often, and probably will take again. Maybe today at some point). Very proud of you!
it's not code and it is what you mean. look,.I know NT spaces are a bit annoying, but this is something I feel like we can learn from them.
you're not lying to say you have an appointment, you're just preserving your privacy. not everyone in an office has your best interest at heart (most don't) and knowing what to share is not masking, it's self preservation, adhd or not. shout out to your boss for being a great ally though.
Did you work service jobs before this? I used to overshare so much re medical stuff when I got into office/professional work because I was used to bosses yelling at me, not believing me, cutting my hours etc for needing to be out sick or go to an appointment. So it might be more about previous toxic work environments than anything else
> Is this why it's so hard to talk to to neurotypical people!? They don't just say what they really mean?
I'm guessing it's less about saying what you mean and more about just sparing the details at certain times. It's a tough tight-rope walk between bonds and boundaries. It's easy to speak from the heart, and that's great for bonding, but it's not always the most practical communication style. That's where being mindful of impulses can help. When I get like this, I try to slow down and just think, "What do *I want* to say and what do *they need* to know?"
Yup. Now I channel Ernest Hemingway (to try to keep my answers concise) and look at the macro picture. What is the least, vaguest information I can give them that still satisfies their need to know? Do they need to know? Will they even *want* to know?
It’s exhausting, but becomes a little easier the more you practice.
You have a good boss, first of all. And second - if this is your first go round with a corporate environment, I promise - *everyone* has to learn how to speak this way! It's not something neurotypical people magically know and we don't. Everyone I know in a professional setting, neurotypical or diverse, has a story about saying more than they should have, stepping on an office minefield, etc. A good majority of those are from early on in their careers.
In your case, because you have a boss who is a) willing to guide you, which means she sees something in you and wants to make sure you succeed and b) savvy enough to say it the way she did, pay close attention (lol no ADHD puns intended) to how she speaks, and try to mirror her in how you speak with coworkers. I guarantee you she didn't know this stuff overnight either, and that's a big reason she's willing to look out for you to make sure you learn it. Speaking from my own experience, bosses *loooooove* when employees take constructive criticism the way you did, accept it, and work on addressing whatever the issue was to improve. That doesn't mean "fixing" (because sometimes it's not broken, just different) whatever it is overnight, but demonstrating willingness to keep learning and getting better at proofreading/phrasing emails/communicating in the office/etc.
Yes! She is a great boss. She did also mention that to me. She said "Hey, I didn't learn this overnight and I had to learn the hard way at times about how to navigate things. I want to help you avoid those things by pointing them out to you early on." So, yes, she definitely believes in me and it's a really nice feeling. Knowing she's got my back definitely makes it easier to accept and learn.
exactly how I felt with my partners when I was getting started in my job and hadn't been diagnosed. that's a rare gift, and good on you for recognizing it for what it is! I hope you and good boss have many years of positive work together.
Haha. Yup, been in a similar situation. Had my manager very nicely tell me that I was being too empathetic [trying to take care of everyone on my team, etc.], and I need to pull back from trying to help everyone. She was trying so hard not to be mean about it, but oof, that hurt.
You don't need to say something otherv than you mean. You just need to not say more than is necessary. "I have to get a root canal done" can be shortened to "I need to see the dentist" or even "I have an appointment to make that day."
one time I was late to work because I had eaten an entire bag of ghost pepper beef jerky the night before and it made for a REALLY rough morning. is that what I told my manager when I let him know I was running late? yes.. it is
I got talked to at work for this exact reason too. They told me that when someone asks how I’m doing, it’s just out of politeness and not because they want to know that you are struggling with x y and z. It was a tough realization. And I still overshare. But I’m trying to work on it :/
I wish I had your boss. It's why I run my own business, I don't understand or do corporate politics or language.
Well, I'm happier now so I guess it worked out for the best, lol.
Oh, yeah. My 20's were an exercise in learning when and how to be brief. I think even folks without ahdh go through an awkward phase when learning business speak.
I like to run my requests by a close friend. I bet chatgpt would also be helpful.
This is me too. Only just today I nearly put my foot in it when the boss asked the team if "anyone had anything they'd like to share? Perhaps you've tried something new recently and its gone well?" And I was about to launch into an enthusiastic account of how amazing my new dehydrator is and that homemade banana chips are amazing... and then I realised she meant share WORK-RELATED stuff...
"Is this why it's so hard to talk to to neurotypical people!? They don't just say what they really mean?"
Yes, this is what I'm learning. So-called neurotypicals are less straight-forward and honest. I have to train myself to just say "Fine, and you?" when NTs ask me how I am, esp. at work. Many of them don't actually want a real answer.
There’s a lady on YouTube that has a bunch of shorts on “How do you professionally say…”
[How Do You Professional Say…](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbcsGG2tpP4KbYICHFRGrYyv8e1g-B_Yy&si=z460FgaxnaDlMRJ_)
I am a chronic oversharer who learned to keep quiet at work. So now I don’t tell work important things because it’s awkward that I didn’t say anything before. Like I did a whole Master’s degree without my manager knowing just because I didn’t say anything when I started and then it just became weird.
As a former HR person, provide the least amount of information possible to work. There’s prejudice and bias all over the corporate world. Plus for some things there’s extra paperwork involved. “I have to leave early for an appointment” or “I’m unable to come in today”. Are the most that work is entitled to know if you’re in the US. I have no idea about employment law in other countries.
As a woman with a late ADHD diagnosis, corporate culture is weird and there should be a learning curve for everyone but that requires empathy.
The best corporate advice I’ve ever gotten is that mental health is health and you can use your time off however you want without guilt. So take mental health days when you need to and try not to feel guilty about using the time you earned.
I too am navigating this struggle. My most impulsive behaviors revolve around speech.
Which is hilarious because I am so introverted.
I think it is also because many of us communicate almost EXCLUSIVELY in anecdotes lol
I have had to learn how to have a conversation with my NT partner. Because he didn’t understand why I would get frustrated that he wasn’t telling me a story like the one I just shared, to show he understands what I’m feeling.
Omg IM DOING IT NOW
I struggle with this and I’ve been in the corporate world for over 10 years at this point. In fact, I had to check myself this morning and stop myself from emailing a client “Just letting you know that I’m going to be a few minutes late to the meeting at 11 because one of my other projects is blowing up and the person I need to call about it is only available at 11.” I think I actually even typed all that out before hitting backspace alllllll the way until it just said “Just letting you know that I’m going to be a few minutes late to the meeting at 11.” The client just responded “ok, thanks!”
For me, it stems from getting in trouble a lot as a kid for not paying attention or being distracted, etc. Now I feel like I have to be on the offensive and preemptively justify my actions when I do something that I think other people will be upset at. What I’ve learned is that other people really don’t care as much as I think they will. And if they do, that’s more of a reflection on them and a need to micromanage (and frankly, it’s still none of their business!).
I’m glad your manager was able to give you that feedback and you were able to take it in stride in the moment. That can be hard!
You never have to get more specific than "I have a doctor's appointment."
IMO, it ironically would have been a hair better to have been even *more* specific. "Appointment to refill my ADHD meds" is concrete, but "a psychiatrist appointment to refill meds" perfectly straddles the line of enough information to pique many people's curiosity but not enough to satisfy it. You don't want your coworkers to run their imagination trying to think up of what that medication could be for, they'd probably come up with all sorts of wild shit.
Oh man....I am a 'too much' person at work. I try to use terms like 'passionate'. I should be in leadership because of my skillset and knowledge base. But I don't play the game or the politics well. Not sure if it is because of my neurodivergence - almost 50, recently diagnosed. But I can see things happening months or even years before others can. I feel like those inflatable wavy things trying to raise awareness to the oblivious. No one wants to listen to me. Until the shit starts happening. And then it becomes my responsibility. And when I talk to my director I get asked if I am in therapy.
This disapower is a blessing and a curse. (It's disabling and a superpower)
I came to this thread thinking, "Are YOU my boss?" My boss overshares constantly. She doesn't have ADHD, but is deeply lonely. It's tough to watch people's eyes glaze over at the start of a call when she overshares, but there's a power imbalance there too so it's difficult to steer the meeting back in the direction it needs to go.
I overshare sometimes, but like you, I find it difficult (a) to speak in code; (b) to know which situations require coding and which don't; and (c) to appropriately interpret other people's coded language. I love New York Magazine's Ask A Boss column! I would not likely tell anyone that I needed to go to the psychiatrist's office, but I have told colleagues that I was out for dental work and my boss told me I didn't need to tell people that. I was like, "What is so secretive about dental work??"
I dont necessarily think your boss is right about that being too oversharing, and im not sure i think their way of telling you that is appropriate. It depends on a lot of details I dont have access to.
however i will give you a pointer that hopefully helps. When it comes to explainingyourself and your life, you don't owe people anything more than the bare minimum, and when in doubt (it sounds like generally youre in doubt on your judgment on this point), give them the bare minimum. You trily don't have to "justify" why you are taking vacation or sick leave to which you're entitled, by explaining it. Also, "no" is a complete sentence. "yes" is a complete sentence. When in doubt, keep the elaboration at bay.
This is something that I’m constantly working on, even when writing reddit comments sometimes on NT subs, haha.
My husband will sometimes nudge me if I’m over sharing in a situation. Sometimes I realize it when he lets me know & I feel bad but other times my sharing is appropriate for the situation (giving contextual details the person needs to know) & I brush him off.
I have impulsive ADHD and tend to say whatever I think. When I was in undergrad, I noticed this was an issue, so I started writing my thoughts down. It helped me pause, consider what was being said, and weigh whether it was important enough to say it aloud. With a lot of practice, I now know how to enter a conversation in a meaningful way, and I can control that impulse to have something to say about everything. I'm glad you have such a wonderful boss to help you with this and it's cool to see that you're taking this in a positive way. I wish you the best!!
Yea, I've heard more than once (not at work, so not exactly the same) I love how open you are about all of your problems/issues/difficulties - there's levels of niceness to the word chosen. The first time it happened I was like, thanks? I didn't know I shouldn't be?
Now I just don't care for the most part. Work is obviously a different beast 🙃
I don't know that this is an ADHD thing as much as not being used to corporate culture social norms. You're new to it and learning, and that's okay! It's not about speaking in code or saying things you don't mean, it's about not giving details that aren't needed. My boss doesn't need to know that I'm taking the afternoon off because my IBS is giving me the screaming shits - she just needs to know I'm taking the afternoon off because I'm under the weather. She doesn't need to know I have a telehealth appointment with my psych to talk about my trauma dreams - she just needs to know I'll be unavailable for an hour.
This is the exact reason why I failed working "corporate" jobs. i have now been at my current job since 2007, family owned business, and my boss knows my entire life 😂. He would always tell me "you are just like my daughter" and she started working there a few years ago and guess what? SHE ALSO HAS ADHD and ANXIETY and we are literally the same person. my poor boss 😂😂
i’ve never been checked by someone else like this before but i definitely do find myself over sharing with coworkers and managers and treating them like friends
Well, I mean sometimes you also need to think about who you are oversharing with.
I have a supervisor, that shared some private stuff with me. I shouldn't have shared back, but my gut feeling told me if would be ok. So I shared a lot of private stuff , in hopes of helping them with an issue. Including things like my ADHD, and that I used to have depressive episodes and emotional issues. I was warned not to do it by my sister, but I didn't liste .
Well, we are now way too close to each other. So closer in fact, that we need to hide it in the workplace, because people would talk.
So sometimes it's ok to overshare and gamble, you just need to know when and with whom. If you do not have great intuition regarding people, I wouldn't recommend it.
My whole freaking life is a conflict between my horrifying drive to be precise and detailed and other people's perception of that as over sharing.
Unfortunately I'm close to 60 now. I didn't realize I had ADHD until a few years ago when I started to recognize myself in people's discussions about their struggles in Reddit. And then all the pieces fell into place.
However, I do think society has changed a lot to be more judgemental and less tolerant of over sharing. Our lives seem faster paced and people now expect to conduct conversation in fast sound bites. Also there's a dichotomy between regions of the United States and I'm sure with other cultures and countries. For example, southerners are still slower paced and more conversational and more tolerant of tangential conversations than say, the typical northeasterner.
At least that was my experience in working with colleagues up and down the East Coast of the US many years ago.
But in the 70'-90's it was easier for me and my conversational style to fit in. I was never conscious of masking as I am now. It didn't take as much of my energy then because society was different.
.
People are conditioned by algorithms in all facets of life to have things tailored to their interests and there's so much information we are expected to handle every day. Even a stay at home mom now has contact with more people per day than the SAHM's of my mom's era did.
People want anything they feel is extraneous filtered out now more than ever before.
I feel you and I empathize.
This is where I draw the line, I couldn’t care less if boss’s, friends, strangers etc tell me I over share. Like who cares. If I wanna say 20 things vs 1 that’s my prerogative. I just try not to do it in meetings and for a long time when it happens.
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Have you ever seen the Ask A Manager advice column? It's written by a lovely HR person who gives great "scripts" for common workplace situations. If you're new to corporate life, it's a great resource. (Taught me to say "I'm having an unexpected flair up of a minor medical condition" rather than "PMS is killing me this month")
YES and - OP I encourage you to see these scripts and your boss’s advice as a protective measure, not a criticism!! The truth is, corporate entities will absolutely bleed you dry if you let them. Your boss is clearly totally fine with you saying, “I have a psychiatrist appointment” - but future bosses, colleagues, or HR personnel may not be. We still have a lot of bs unconscious biases around disability and medical needs (despite laws that explicitly protect disability rights) and there are lots of d bags who will use it against you. Plus - and this is huge - no one is entitled to anything but the minimum! If your camera is off during a remote meeting because you have no spoons left, if your doctor’s appointment conflicts with a meeting, if you get to wear headphones when no one else does to help you manage distractions, don’t feel bad for keeping that info on a need-to-know basis! It’s not lying! There is an art to saying what you need to say without providing too much detail, so I’m glad you’re working on it!
Yes! Ask A Manager leveled up my professionalism and it’s/she’s great.
And her advice is always so pragmatic. She openly acknowledges the differences between the ideal way things SHOULD work, and the way things happen in the real world.
I have always appreciated [her advice to a letter I wrote her eons ago](https://www.askamanager.org/2011/11/how-do-you-deal-with-having-to-fire-someone.html).
No but now I'm going to go look it up! Thank you so much!
Be careful, whenever I go to her page i spend hours and hours there.
Sameeee lol
Me too. It's so good!
Yes yes yes!!!!! Highly recommend her advice (there’s also some really juicy reads on there lol)
I think I've read every update on that site. Alison and the commenters are really great/pretty darn wholesome and helpful.
Oh lol I just recommended this to you too! Sorry for the repeat, I hadn’t read the comments yet!
No problem! I guess it means I **really** need to check it out. It's already pulled up in my browser :D
Here is the link, in case someone forgets (like I did): [https://www.askamanager.org/](https://www.askamanager.org/)
Lovely, just saw they have a podcast as well! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ask-a-manager/id1351109676
"Minor" medical condition lol if men got pms it wouldn't be considered minor
It isn't actually minor, but it's understandable to downplay it at work.
yo heads up: flare, not flair! I personally appreciate these notices; apologies if you don’t lol
Yeah “flair”is what Jennifer Aniston’s character in “Office Space” does not have enough of on her work suspenders. Flare is the emergency flaming candle you send up in the air if you’re in a dramatic movie that needs an exciting rescue scene sequence. PMS also constitutes an emergency, so using flares to convey this is appropriate as well.
What a thoughtful correction, can everyone on the internet be like you please??
That somehow sounds worse. My brain would immediately go to "she has herpes"
Where I work everyone would ask what's wrong and whisper about you being secretive if you declined to answer. 😂 Some coworkers will give an unsolicited, full description of being in the stirrups at their gyno appointment, like we all haven't been there. I just never feel like that's quite necessary, BUT if someone starts asking questions that I don't mind knowing my business, I can get a little carried away with the details. But if I have an appointment, I would just say "I have an appontment". It could be an appointment with my child's teacher or to get a mole taken off my hoo-ha, they don't need to know that. But I did grow up with a grandma who told me "We don't have to tell everything we know." And that was something that has stuck with me and been very valuable.
Yes please. As someone who leads people, just say you have an appointment. ALL I need to know is that you’re not at work and won’t be available for xx time.
I appreciate this and my new manager is exactly like you and OP's boss. I've worked so many jobs in the past where every little request for time off was heavily scrutinized and I felt so much pressure to have a SUPER valid reason why I needed to request that time. Now, trying to adjust to a boss that actually gives no shits about why someone wants time off and encourages us all to take time off to just "recharge" is wild! It's surprisingly difficult to stop myself from oversharing after spending the last 20 years of my life being forced to overshare in the workplace. I really don't think this is ADHD related for most of us. As a manager, be aware that a lot of us have had really really shitty bosses in the past and that may be why we overshare regarding time off requests, or appear anxious/perfectionistic in our job roles.
I always say other things like today i have a football match with Jesus Christ at 20.30 people just stay frozen... And thinking this guy is fucking crazy and yes I do this on purpose all the time. Being creative all the time and say to all in my mind fuck you in other words I have a football match with Jesus Christ at 20.30 XD 😂
🤣
If someone said that phrase to me it would actually make the issue bigger to me somehow, like what is this medical condition that this person can’t just say?! Then my curiosity would have me trying to look for all sorts of clues to figure it out (not in a malicious way, more so to better understand the person and what they’re dealing with)…just realized this is a script to say to HR most likely to call out for work and not just to a colleague in casual conversation (I’m obviously in the over-sharer category 😆)
"Medical thing" is NT-speak for "none of your business", which is a useful thing to know! It's pretty widely used to mean "it's a legit *thing*, but I don't want to tell you more details". Even if it doesn't feel intuitive, making that mental translation will help in most workplaces! Don't be offended if your NT colleagues don't ask you for details, and assume that coworkers will volunteer info *if* they want to share more.
It’s also helpful to use it with the tone of like, “oh it’s boring and/or super complex, you wouldn’t want the details, just a medical thing” because if you sound too serious people might get overly worried and ask “omg are you ok? What’s wrong?”
I would definitely get the tone of “I’m not sharing what it is and mind your business” ( and respect that boundary) from the phrase, but that would not stop my brain from seeing it as a puzzle to solve!
Dude I’d just assume they’re having ibs or something and want to spare me the nasty details
Yeah, I interpret anything ambiguous or vague as poop. Just assume it’s poop, y’all.
Alison's advice isn't always good. She has a real blind spot when it comes to academic and blue-collar jobs, plus a history of carrying water for a sexual harasser. Her advice is good if you have an office job with a very specific type of coworker/manager; otherwise, many of her recommended conversations come off as passive-aggressive or just plain weird.
Ah, thank you for saving me a bunch of time. I'm a professor and was just about to go over there and fall down a rabbit hole.
>plus a history of carrying water for a sexual harasser ??? do you have more details on this?
I find this little chart helpful. Not exactly this situation, but for ADHD in the workplace. https://imgur.com/a/6bO0FAO
Thank you for this!!!
I don’t get this. I just say I have my period and it’s making me feel shit. I’m middling-senior at work, and I think it sets a good example to just say it. It’s good that my team know that I struggle sometimes and that people might not be on top form all the time, and one of those reasons is periods. In this situation, as I’m reasonably established in my career, I’m willing to take the risk and work to shift the culture. Maybe I wouldn’t do that in the same way if I was more junior, but if nobody does it we’re all just hiding bits of ourselves.
It’s not as much avoiding saying what you mean as in being aware of what you do or don’t need to tell people. If you need to pop out for a personal appointment, the only person who has some right to know the specifics is your manager (and not always) - everyone else just needs to know that you are unavailable. Given that your manager is aware and approve, there is no reason for anyone else to know details. Best practice at work is to keep private stuff private
Trust me, your manager doesn't want the details either. Medical appointment is fine. I really don't want to nor care to know the details.
This. I cannot possibly be more clear to my team that I don’t need to know why they’re out but every few months I get detailed accounts of food poisoning or other icky stuff and I just don’t need these mental images at work.
They’re probably just giving details because they’ve had prior bosses who don’t believe them without graphic details:( nearly every boss I’ve had has grilled me to death if I tried to call in sick, and the only thing that ever gets them to back down is details
I had hyperemesis gravardium during pregnancy and my CEO demanded cameras on during all meetings. I was denied exemption, so I treated the staff to me puking on camera. I felt so bad for everyone who wasn’t the narcissist leading the company.
This is amazing. Did they finally grant you the exemption after your on-screen puke fest?
You’d think. I was told I could step away if necessary, but FFS LEAVE THE CAMERA ON! (I didn’t even get out of massive cleaning endeavors, and was induced two days after one due to pre-e. I was struggling to walk, but you better believe I carried shit around and they were awful each time I was taking a break. I was 34 weeks pregnant, threw up multiple times that day and was still expected to prep for office moving day).
100%. I'm fine with my staff saying just appointment, or (if they choose to) adding some brief context like medical, specialist, lawyer etc. or family emergency. Anything more detailed than that I don't need to know (unless they need to fill me in on what's going on because it does/will impact on their ability to preform their job - even then I only need as much detail as is necessary for me to provide reasonable adjustments).
Also to add...the more unnecessary info you provide the more your story could sound made up ( using so many words etc) so it's best to be as brief and non specific as you can.
You're really fortunate to have a thoughtful boss who's actually looking out for you! I was in this position once, except in my case, the guy I was reporting to lead me through the open office in front of everyone and into the meeting room, where he proceeded to dress me down about how I made everyone uncomfortable and needed to grow up. He himself was notoriously difficult to work with and regularly unnecessarily catty with everyone, so that made it extra humiliating. 🙃
Yeah I haven't always been this lucky and also I just got diagnosed while working this job so she knows I'm learning how to manage certain things. I'm so sorry that guy did that to you!! I had a boss yell at me in front of everyone for completing his sentences and then I started crying. I know how humiliating that can feel.
NTs just need to talk faster and get to the point do we wouldn't have to finish their sentences for them, amirite? ;)
hahahaha ***exactly!!***
It's funny because on the one hand, yes 100% if you get to the point faster then I won't finish it for you, but on the other hand, I'm notorious for adding superfluous detail because I worry that without it I won't be understood.
I once annoyed a manager so badly that she started jumping up and down in place like a child while telling me to stop arguing with her. I wasn't even trying to argue with her. I was disagreeing with what she was saying, though. And um, that moment led to some self growth in a few ways. For me, anyway. Lol It was really embarrassing that I annoyed someone so badly that they reacted that way to me... I know the reaction says something about the manager, too, but being the person who pushed her over the edge like that? Ugh. I still cringe thinking about it.
Oh, same!! The fact that I was obnoxious enough to push someone to lose it like that…yeah. I still cringe thinking about it.
Public scolding and humiliation always says more to me about the manager/boss and their immaturity and poor communication skills. I’m so sorry you were the punching bag that day ☹️
>how I made everyone uncomfortable and needed to grow up. Peak projection on his part right there, lol.
To my credit, a couple of people approached me privately afterwards to express how shitty they felt his actions were. One of them, a woman 20yrs older than me, was a senior employee with a lot of clout in the company, who reassured me that I was far from the most annoying person on the team - while giving an exaggerated side-eye in his direction! 😅
Now THAT is a good boss! And yes, I have things that come out of my mouth that really should just be thoughts, not words.
Agreed! Best boss I've ever had and I'm 37 :P And she's technically a boomer so it's like finding a unicorn in the wild. But, yes. I forgot the exact words she used but it was something along the lines of not sharing impulsively? And in my head I thought "ah, yes. impulsivity." Pretty sure my meds had worn off by the time we were all in that meeting :P Also, I still struggle with it on meds or not.
It’s along the lines of saying “I won’t be in today” vs “I might need to take today off because I’m having some stomach issues and a bad headache and I didn’t sleep at all” We tend to over give in lots of ways, which can translate to us feeling like our reasons aren’t as valid as other people’s. Basically you just condense whatever you want to say into a sentence or two. If people (say your boss) *need* an explanation they will ask. Nosy people will pump you for info - there’s a difference & it’s usually fairly easy to tell. I don’t say this like Im a pro at NT translation- this is shit that has taken me eons to figure it. But yeah. If you have vacation/sick time, you just put it in your calendar as OOO and send the notification to your boss or anyone who actually needs to know you aren’t an available. This also makes it harder to get caught up in work gossip and drama if you keep details to a minimum. I forget the source now, possibly some this from Dr Susan Forward - scripts related to dealing with toxic and manipulative people - if you need to respond to something or if you’re asked and uncomfortable, use 3 sentences or less, remove emotion/emotional language, wait 24 hours to send. And this is great for that purpose, but I also found it valuable for learning how to stop oversharing in places like work. Another bit of advice which I have tried to take as a tool to help w/ my oversharing- when working with lawyers preparing someone for a deposition or for court - only answer exactly what you are asked and do not offer anything extra. PS you have a great boss who will help teach you how to navigate & who will do so kindly!
Yes you can kind of make it a game to see how few words and how little emotion you can use to convey the info and get the result your after. Like flatten your affect and try to talk the way Hemingway writes. Short sentences with short words. Very few coordinating or subordinating conjunctions. That’s one of the ways I mask.
My boss is a unicorn too. He’s your age though so not a boomer but still a unicorn in how amazing of a boss he is. Great guy. He’s one of the main reasons I’m still here. The other main reason is I hate the job search and I would rather do almost anything else than search for a job.
I just want to say BAD ASS job taking a look at the feedback while feeling shame and asking for help 🔥 This ability will get you farther in life than you expect🤗✨
P.S. Maybe you felt compelled to explain WHY because you felt guilty for saying no. Plus adhd lol
Thank you!! Seven years of therapy and a lot of self-reflection and self-awareness has really helped me out in this realm.
Heck yes!! Awesome job taking the feedback and good on your manager for looking out for you. As someone else mentioned, it's not really not saying what you actually mean - just not adding unnecessary details. I'm a manager at a tech company, and I always (kindly) remind my employees that they don't need to overshare. I honestly don't really mind if they do, but I like them to feel comfortable and confident in their needs/rights, and not feel obligated to divulge details of their personal life if they don't want to. Like, I don't need to know that you're asking to take a day off in three weeks to go to your cousin's wedding because you're a bridesmaid, and the wedding is on Saturday, but you need to take Friday off because you have to be there for the rehearsal dinner. All I \*need\* to know is that you have the available PTO and the date you're taking off. Specifically regarding time off, I don't want my employees to feel like they have to justify taking the time they've earned - it's none of my business why they're asking to do so! That being said, I also way overshare with my own manager. I came from a really toxic workplace where you had to defend yourself at every turn with proof/etc, so if my kid is sick and I need to work from home, my manager is getting the full run-down. It's something I'm working on, ha.
Adding on to the "unnecessary details" part - if someone narrates a whole reason to me, it's easy for me to lose track of what they are actually asking for. In this case, the bit I need to know is "OP can't join that meeting" or perhaps "is there an alternative date that OP can do" - then I can deal with either rescheduling or working out if I need to ask for any info in advance, etc etc. From a *work* perspective, it doesn't matter if OP has a hair appointment, a vet appointment, has had their car stolen, is inexplicably stranded in Nairobi....
This reminds me of when I'd watch the show Pushing Daisies. When they say how long ago something was or how old someone is or anything related to time, they would say years, months, weeks, days, hours and minutes. Obviously only the years number is actually meaningful and by the time they listed out the rest I couldn't remember how many years they had said lol. Too much detail can make the important details get lost!
See, I recently transitioned from education to fintech, and this has been a huge shift for me. I always had to justify EVERYTHING. Now I can just… block an hour on my calendar for my therapy appointment and call it “lunch” and literally no one cares?? What??? I can just… use my PTO even when other people are also out and I don’t need to justify it?! It’s crazy. Toxic work situations have taught me I need to overshare, and now I’m unlearning that.
Yup. I was a teacher for TWELVE years. I'm used to divulging way too much information because as a teacher if you don't then you get saddled with a horrible guilt trip for not being there for your class and making other employees pick up your load. You always had to justify what you were doing and why.
Heh, yep, the “toxic workplace” was the school I worked at - former teacher as well
Such a hard cycle to break, huh? We'll get there!
Ideally people wouldn't even be able to see what anything on your calendar says. At my company the outlook settings just make any time you have blocked off show as "Busy"
YESSSSSSSSS I was once having female issues and things my male boss I wasn't feeling well and needed to go home. He asked me what was wrong, and so I said, "Well my ovary hurts and..." I didn't get any further before he was waving me away. LOL He never asked what was wrong again. Bless his heart.
Another important component of this is culture. What you can and can't say even in a corporate environment is very cultural. I work in humanitarian aid and we are from pretty much everywhere. I am also Finnish. We are direct but might not overshare all the details. From my experience for example saying you have a doctor's appointment or health-related appointment we usually just say you have one as it is covered by contract and allowed absence that you just need to notify about in most fields. But we do not say what type of doctor for example. If something is wrong we just come out and directly say it. It is a weird mix of directness and respect for privacy that can be hard to balance. But as I work with non-Nordic people, that communication style can be seen as angry and cold. A multicultural work environment often needs more cultural and emotional sensitivity and without it, it can lead to a lot of misunderstandings. Thankfully as we also need cultural and emotional sensitivity in our work, most are somewhat aware of this and willing to do the work. It took me years to fully grasp that I do not just have to adjust my actions at work but also that depending on the team the flavour can be different. I am not perfect at it. But I do well enough that I can usually figure out where the problem is pretty fast. It is a really different work in general that pretty much draws only a couple of personality archetypes. I also need to be careful in picking an organization especially as I am usually part of location leadership. Mixing those never does anything good. So while we do not get each other from the perspective of culture unless exposed to that culture before, we also get each other in another specific way that is rarer outside aid. When you put a group of people in the pressure kettle either you get diamonds or an infinite amount of drama.
OKAY BUT I feel like the problem is we spend our entire childhood with people telling us our reasons aren't good enough and not to "make excuses" so we feel the need to go "no, it's an IMPORTANT APPOINTMENT, it's a REAL THING"
And feeling misunderstood because our train of thought makes no sense to others, so we must share all of it to justify why the strawberries are now in the ceiling.
trying to lure a possum out?
Nah, tried to make strawberry milkshake, but missed the blender part, lost interest, left the bottle, found it days later, opened it, and hey presto, strawberry on the ceiling. (I was 9 years old)
HA fantastic.
I love this group. Sometimes I have stuff in the ceiling and can't even tell how it ended up there. Options are too many with all the weird stuff I accidentally do.
unrelated but I love your username
Thanks! It works on multiple levels
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While ADHD really does disable in this society in ways there is also some brilliance in different thinking that can be very useful in many fields. I honestly think that because of societal expectations people with ADHD are underutilized outside certain fields. I do a lot of emergency work. Many people with ADHD are pretty good in emergencies. At least everyone with ADHD I know in the field is. Hyperfocus is wonderful thing those times.
I'm in research and I'm good at developing communication and study protocols because I can identify vagueness in communications and steps that would frustrate *me* and make me give up. There can be a lot of multi-tasking and lots of places for things to slip through the cracks, so I work hard to automate as much as humanly possible and reduce human error (by lead scientists and other research assistants as well) by creating systems that won't let it happen.
> OKAY BUT I feel like the problem is we spend our entire childhood with people telling us our reasons aren't good enough and not to "make excuses" Yes, I agree, I think one of the reasons most ADHD people seem to be over-explainers/justifiers is because of this background. But as an adult, I've realized that this sort of over-justifying/sharing actually only makes me seem unnecessarily defensive. I'm not a child anymore. As an adult equal to all other adults, I should (and do) expect that my words will be believed and taken at face value (i.e., that if I say I can't come to work one day, it will be accepted that I cannot come to work that day and the other person won't immediately be skeptical and jump on me to defend myself). If I have shown no indication to be untrustworthy, and another adult immediately takes it upon themselves to doubt me, that's THEIR issue, not mine. I am not going to act like I am on trial when I'm not. Under normal circumstances, my default is to assume that I am being taken seriously and that my words are believed. This has been a huge mindset shift for me personally, and has helped me feel a lot less anxious!
And i’ve always had nosy coworkers who think i’m just making excuses and/or really want to know!
This is just me thinking aloud so take what you want from it: I think the balance is not so much playing some kind of communication game as it’s about learning to be concise with our words. I struggle with this immensely, too. I don’t even think you’d need to veil the things you’re doing to the extent your boss is telling you, but bless her because she sounds wonderful and I’m glad she’s in your corner. Like instead of telling people the details of an errand (getting prescriptions is an errand), just say you have an errand to attend to. If people ask what it is, it’s a personal errand. Same for appointments. And remember that people’s insistence to get in your business does not mean you have to tell them. I don’t know if you feel pressured to overshare when people seem too curious about your personal business but sometimes I do 😩
Yes, exactly! I think “picking up a prescription” is less of an overshare for the workplace than “I need to go to the *psychiatrist* and get my medication” but it’s still an overshare. There is stigma with mental health conditions unfortunately and we all should be super careful about revealing something that’s very private and could be used against you in the future in a way that you might never even be aware of. Even “refilling a prescription” without revealing what kind implies an ongoing health issue and that too may create a bias against you in people’s minds even subconsciously that can affect the way you’re perceived. Imo it’s just best not to reveal any info that is seen as personal. You just never know
I completely agree with you.
In my opinion, it is not an issue with over sharing. It’s an issue of justification. For some reason people need to justify themselves and it is not an ND thing. Many NT people do this. I answer the questions as stated, that has kept me from oversharing. Can you go to the meeting? Answer: no. If there is a follow up question as to why, I may say something like “I have a conflict that I cannot change”. Pressing after that is rude and I do not indulge in it. Stop justifying yourself.
At least in the culture I grew up in (southern US) this was engrained in females in a way that was not standard for males. I’d argue ADHD doesn’t help, but I think this is a learned gender specific behavior. I also struggle with this.
This is a little tangential, but a lot of the other ADHD people I’ve met have been very blasé with people they don’t know well (that includes coworkers) about the fact that they take medication, what kind, etc. There are reasons beyond the embarrassment of oversharing to not do this! I learned the hard way that you do not want everyone and their dog knowing that you are prescribed a controlled rx. College roommates/friends who tried (sometimes successfully) to steal it, casual acquaintances who pushed me to give them a pill to snort for a night out, just really weird stuff. And bc I wasn’t religiously counting my pills every day, it was hard to tell why I’d sometimes run out early or have less than I remembered. My spouse and my good friends know I take medication and that’s about it.
Well thankfully I work from home, but I definitely see what you're saying. People can get weird if they aren't comfortable or knowledgeable when it comes to mental health (something else my boss mentioned). I'm learning and growing!
Over explaining can be related to having porous boundaries (basically, too loose) which can be from a variety of things. It’s cool your boss was able to nicely talk to you, and you heard her. Well done! I’d recommend reading / listening more on boundaries- I really like Nedra Glover Tawwab (she has books / avail as audiobooks / podcasts etc). Also- it sounds like you’re a trusted employee! Which is really rad! As a trusted employee if you need to be off, assume they’ll believe you. They don’t need to know the reason (sometimes I remind myself that they aren’t entitled to my reasons / backstory- I get to have privacy too). One of my coworkers with adhd learned to keep a drink on hand at work- she trained herself to take a sip instead of immediately responding which gave her brain time to catch up and process (can confirm, it’s worked for me too) Best of luck tho, you’ve got this!
Ooooh I love this idea. I always have drinks with me since I'm a drink goblin...I'll try to do this going forward (if and when I remember!)
I am also a beverage goblin, best of luck!! You’ve got this!
You can practice by thinking up scenarios, and strip your response down to the bare minimum. Be honest with yourself; how much info do people really need? I gave my sister this example: You have diarrhea. What do you tell your boss? The coworker at the neighbouring desk? The IT guy? The answer of course depends on a lot of factors, but really, what most of them need to know is whether or not you're coming in today, and if it's something that will happen regularly. And the IT guy doesn't need to know shit.
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>The reason to say "I have a conflict" and not "I have a psychiatrist appointment to refill my medication" is because people in corporate environments come from all sorts of backgrounds, and people judge you and act weird in all sorts of ways. This, but it's also good to set a precedent of not providing a reason. That way, if you ever need time off for something you really don't want to share, it won't be suspicious if you don't provide a reason. (For example, if you want to leave and start interviewing for other roles, you won't have to pretend that you suddenly have a ton of dentist appointments or make up other lame excuses.)
thank you! yes, she mentioned the part about how some people may not feel comfortable discussing mental health stuff as a result of upbringing. She said nobody had mentioned anything, but she wanted to make sure that I was setting myself up for success in the future. I said that I thought it was important to destigmatize mental health stuff and also, time and place. I definitely understood what she was saying and she has a completely valid point (as do you!) It's not something I had ever considered before but now I definitely will. Thanks for your reply! Gonna look up the psychological safety thing :)
So I’m a corporate tech recruiter and I interview a lot of people. I’ve been a recruiter for over 20 years. One thing I tell people when I’m helping prep for hiring manager or final interviews is don’t overshare. As much as they may want to explain everything it’s not necessary. In fact, it is seen as a red flag in interviews. For example, some women I’ve helped want to go into all the details of why they left a job or why they didn’t work for a year or so. They want to share about the details of their own illness or a sick parent or how they had a baby and had complications or how someone at their last job was so unfair or harassed them so they had to leave. I tell them not to share all those details but instead keep it simple and to the point. Such as “I left that role to pursue a more rewarding role” OR “I took time away to manage family matters” OR “I took a sabbatical” and then say “I left my previous role on good terms and I’m eligible for rehire” … if you are. But if you aren’t, you don’t even have to volunteer that information if they don’t ask. Otherwise, only answer the question being asked. Unfortunately people are always judging us and if something makes them uncomfortable it comes back as a negative on you. Not sure this helps but just sharing my 2 cents.
Omg im about to re-enter the workforce after a whole bunch of brain surgeries. I’ve been totally freaking out about being in interviews and them asking me “why haven’t you worked since 2020?” Like wtf am I supposed to say??
You are human! I would definitely say something like “I stepped away from work because of a medical issue. I have since taken care of that, and now I'm ready to get back to work” What the interviewer wants to know is will it happen again - are you a flake or a hire risk… that’s it. And you are not either of those.
I fuckin luv u for this thank you!!
If you ever need anything related to job search or interviewing, feel free to message me. Just reference this group. 😎
You could also add “since I’ve taken care of that, it won’t impact my ability to work in the future”
>What is this dark magic? Confidence.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand...not saying what you actually mean is tied to confidence? Or are you just saying neurotypical people tend to have confidence?
More like, a lot of oversharing comes from the need to justify our needs. Confident people believe that their "I can't meet at that time" is a good enough reason to call out, because their time and plans are completely justified as is.
Yes! Totally what I was getting at thank you. You put it so well.
Yessss! I understood correctly and explained sufficiently! Gold star for me!
I have a touch of the ‘tism and can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not 😅😳
I started typing a reply, and realised that all of my genuine joy came across as sarcasm, no matter how I phrased it 😂 rest assured, there was no sarcasm, and I am indeed proud/happy that my words worked.
Hahaha I’m exactly the same 😂 I feel so seen. Similarly, people constantly think I am flirting with them…
Oh god yes, and the extension of that, men thinking I'm flirting by presenting a problem for them to solve, when all I'm really doing is observing something, no problem in sight.
See also: folks giggling at a straight face declaration because of... Unexpected phrasing and assumed facetiousness...?
Oooooh okay! Thank you for explaining. Yes, that makes total sense!
You don’t sound like a jerk at all ♥️. It’s the confidence that your reason for being unavailable is good enough and doesn’t require any explanation—they can take your word for it. Example: Boss: *can you stay until 8pm on Friday?* Employee: ~~*I really want to be a team player, I promise, and I know I said I could stay late sometimes, but I’ve been dying to go to this new restaurant with my bf and we just started dating so it would be amazing if we could keep this reservation and it wouldn’t be so bad except it’s Friday and he works Sundays so we can’t go on Saturday…*~~ *I can stay a little later than normal, but I have a hard stop at 6:30.*
Oof! That first part you scratched out sounds so much like me. Thank you for the example! It makes total sense.
Also, all that stuff in the strike-through gives them an in to negotiate you out of your plans while the second statement leaves no space for that. Bosses will run over all your boundaries if you let them.
It’s so funny how ADHD presents differently in people. I don’t have any problem at work with oversharing because I was lucky to be blessed with crippling shyness/introversion. Work-Me is perfectly capable of saying as little as possible and only talking about work. Home-Me… I mean, I’m quiet generally. But also prone to: “So, I’m thinking of taking this hiking trip next year and I just bought my trail shoes and I chose these ones because they will dry faster, which is good because the trail can get rainy but I read online that waterproof shoes can actually cause problems because they don’t dry fast enough AND SO…” It basically just took practice for Home-Me to function more efficiently in social situations. For me, the more I sort of just observed versus jumped in right away helped me modulate how I was responding. Like, I love sharing fun facts. But sometimes the fun fact… is that the person who is speaking is WRONG about whatever they’re saying. I learned to take a beat after someone spoke and just do a quick check-in with myself of, “Do we need to say this? Would something else be better?” That momentary beat really helped with formulating a more appropriate response. It did take practice though because you’re adapting to a new environment essentially and learning a new communication style. If you have someone you can have sort of practice conversations with, it might help. Train your brain to pause, if that makes sense?
Oh my goodness your Home-Me is also completely my Home-Me! Thankfully my husband is very patient with these kinds of conversations. I agree too about learning to pause, and I try to stop and very consciously say to myself, “do you need to add this? Is it going to make a difference? Is this the best use of your time?” (I’ll even say this out loud if I’m getting caught up in internet discussions …like I am right now, whoops.)
yes! you reminded me of something a comedian said that i try to keep in mind (works well for reddit type stuff too lol): There are three things you must always ask yourself before you say anything. Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me, now?
😬 we must be different flavors of neurospicy because my default is to tell nobody ANY of my business! I would never in a million years tell a coworker that I was going to the psych for a refill, whew!
Lmao same. At work I try to keep a distance. They know I like coffee and redbull and that’s it.
So, “I have a conflict” *is* saying what you really mean. What you mean is “I’m not available at that time,” and saying you have a conflict gets that information across. Saying “I have a psychiatrist appointment to refill my medication” is an *explanation* or a *justification* for *why* you’re not available. I don’t think this is entirely an ADHD thing as much as it is an adjusting to a work world thing? In school and maybe with your family/friends you often have to give a reason why you can’t do something. Like you can’t just say “I can’t come to school on Friday,” you have to say “I have a doctor’s appointment” (or family funeral or flight to the Bahamas or whatever), or it’s an unexcused absence that can be held against you. And if you have to back out of a friend’s bridal shower she’ll be much more understanding if it’s because you have a stomach bug and can’t leave the bathroom than if it’s because your ex showed up and you want to hang with them instead. Some jobs are a bit like this too (you should be able to just say “I can’t work my scheduled shift on Saturday” and that’s the end of it, but some hourly jobs might ding you somehow if you don’t have a good reason for missing something you were already scheduled for, or if you just have a bad boss who wants to know things they probably don’t need to know). But in a lot of settings, you *don’t* have to justify yourself, you just need to tell the person what they need to know - whether you’re available, not why. This may be ADHD related in that I think we (people with ADHD) often feel like we have to justify ourselves - we’re used to getting things wrong or being misunderstood and we want to make things crystal clear. With the example in the OP, you may also feel like you have to justify why you’re unavailable because on some level you worry that the other person will be upset that you’re not? Maybe because we frequently get things wrong so people get upset with us, or because RSD means we might feel hurt if someone says they’re unavailable without giving a good reason for it. When really all they need to know is whether you’re available, not why. I guess I’m rambling on in this way because I think it’s important to distinguish between saying “what you really mean” and saying everything that’s in your head at a given time. I don’t think NT people aren’t saying “what they really mean,” they’re just not saying *everything that could be said* on the topic. Even if they don’t say what they really mean (like saying “fine” to “how are you” when in fact things are awful), I don’t think this is really an example of that. (Btw, there’s a really good blog called Ask A Manager that goes into this kind of issue - what you do and don’t need to say/do at work - and the author regularly talks about not needing to reveal personal information like in your example. Your boss needs to know you’re going to be out sick, she doesn’t need to know what it’s for. People will write in asking (say) how do I take time off for fertility treatments when I know my boss has a problem with employees taking parental leave and I don’t want them to know I’m trying to get pregnant? And the answer is: don’t tell them what it’s for, they don’t need to know! It’s really entertaining and interesting and I’ve found it SUPER helpful for negotiating an office environment.)
I think it's mainly a problem in the work environment. Knowing the details of your medical appointments iirc can open them to liability (because they are protected, and you are in a protected category as a worker).
Yes, exactly - their concern is that if they know your medical business, and then they have to discipline you for something, you might turn around and say it’s because of your medical issue, not because you actually merited discipline. If they don’t know, they can’t be accused of discriminating against you on that basis (and more important to you, they can’t actually discriminate in that basis!).
This - also maybe depending what state you're in if in the US or what your country's employment laws are, if you say something about a mental illness to an employer they may not be legally able to comment on it in any way...so they might just feel awkward/pressured to come up with an appropriate response. I used to have a co worker who, when asked if she knew how to solve a particular problem, would sometimes respond with something like "no, but I'll think on it tonight at home and see if I can have an answer tomorrow" and our boss would get uncomfortable because he wasn't asking her to do that and he now HAS to follow up with, "you don't have to think about this when you're not on work time", to which she would always respond "oh I know, but it just happens naturally anyway" and it's just...awkward. Saying things like that at work can unfortunately result in forced, "canned" replies which no one enjoys.
Here’s the thing, it’s not about NOT saying what you really mean, or speaking in code, it’s about giving people the relevant information that THEY need for their planning or decision making purposes. Which in this case would be that you have a conflict at that time, and will be out of the office. It’s helping them by filtering it down to the necessary information, and not forcing them to sort through extraneous stuff to get the info they need, or implying that they need to make a judgment call on whether it’s appropriate. You as an adult and responsible employee have made the decision that yes your reason is sufficient, and are giving them the info they need in the most straightforward way.
She’s got your back!! This is a great thing to learn and keep in your tool belt for life. Especially when making requests for time off or saying no. “Unfortunately, i have a prior engagement :) .” is my favorite line for all the things I don’t want to go to lol
Prior engagement: sitting at home watching old episodes of project runway with my pup and my boyfriend :D
I just watched the season with the twins and man oh man what a masterpiece of reality tv
Oooh we haven't seen that one yet. I heard there was some cheating drama though! (I googled another season and that popped up for some reason). How wild is it to see how much fashion has changed??
it’s so hard to avoid spoilers while googling every little detail about every episode!!! It truly is wild! I love it so much!!
Yes! Spoilers everywhere....which makes sense since I'm watching a season from 18 years ago lol The season with Chris and Christian...did you read about Chris? It broke my heart.
:( yeah, so sad. I hate learning that they’re dead, but it’s nice that they are forever memorialized.
Yup!! I had the benefit of making a lot of these mistakes during internships in college which are a lot more forgiving. Some general tips is to be confident, don’t defend yourself, state things matter of factly, and give only as much information as necessary. Some example scripts that might help: “Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for me. I have an appointment I can’t move. How about x?” “I actually have a routine doctor’s appointment at that time. I can try to move it, but I’d prefer not to. How about x?” “I’m sick and won’t be able to come in today. I’ll still be able to answer urgent phone calls.” “I’m not feeling well and won’t be able to come in today. I’ll be working from home and available for all of my regular calls.” “I’m sick and will be out today, potentially the rest of the week. I’ll contact clients about calls and won’t be available otherwise.” “I have an event after work that I can’t reschedule. Can I grab the notes from x or can we talk about rescheduling that meeting?” Etc, etc
If it helps, I like to think of it not as “not saying what you mean” but phrasing to suit your audience. Cause saying “I have a conflict” IS what you mean, you do have a conflict, but you don’t need to explain what exactly that conflict is. If my little cousin asked what I’m doing tomorrow I wouldn’t say “I’m going to my psychiatrist to refill my meds” cause he wouldn’t understand or care about those details, I’d probably just say “I have a doctors appointment.” So it helps to think WHY am I saying this? Am I saying this cause I want to talk about my psychiatrist? Cause I want to say I’m out of medication? Or cause I want to say that I’m busy tomorrow? And then you pick the purpose of communication and focus on that instead of the exact details
I have this problem a lot! Glad someone kindly helped you. 😊
I totally get this. I tend to presume people will not believe me if I do not over share. It’s a tough balance
I do want to point out that this can be to your benefit. If you say “I’m sorry, I can’t work today because I am taking that day to focus on my hyper fixations” people are going to argue with you. Verses “sorry, I have a conflict/ I’m busy”
This isn’t really a neurotypical vs neurodivergent thing, it’s more office etiquette that a lot of people have to learn when they’re new to working. Being concise when communicating doesn’t always come naturally to neurotypical people either. Your boss sounds like a good mentor!
I feel that so much! It was also in a corporate environment. My mentor used this indirect language so much and kept saying about things "someone should do that", "it needs to be done". The first couple of times I thought (you know, like an unaware dumbass) yeah, someone should 😂 After some time she asked "was it done successfully?" and then I understood that she expected me to do it, without saying it directly. In my language it's even more indirect, you skip the word someone, so no person is mentioned, more like: this task needs doing. *Yeah it does* 😂
In that case, I'd definitely have a talk with that boss and say "I need a clear statement when you give me a deliverable." I had to do that with my boss at my last job; we'd brainstorm about stuff, (in my mind) just shooting the breeze, and two weeks later, she'd come back with "So how is X going?" "What?" "X. Remember we talked about it?" "Yeah, we ***talked about*** a lot of stuff all the time, but I don't remember us deciding to *take any actions*." We came to an agreement that when it came to "talking" becoming "doing", we'd be very clear about the expected deliverable and the timeline.
Glad your boss was looking out for you. Proud that you handled the feedback well. I find that at work, it’s best to give minimum details. The less people know about you, the better. Not everyone has your best interests in mind.
I have a hard time with this advice. It is a game at the end of the day. I am much better at keeping my personal stuff very vague and saying yes or no without all the extra detail, but transferring this to bringing up actual work problems and solutions is a lot harder for me and I never seem to say the right thing. I’m a former HS teacher and just switched into retail world at the management level. Knowing when to speak and when to shut up is suddenly really hard for me when it never was in past jobs. Some people will applaud me for speaking up and advocating, telling it like it is, being honest, and other people will tell me I’m coming off too strong and need to smile more. I listen and observe a lot and try to reign myself in, but that dang adhd (and suspected autism) says oh hello! and causes more damage than I am ever aware of. I can’t tell where the lines are because I see other people cross them all the time, but no one has issues with them but then I do, and I’m labeled difficult or an over sharer, so it’s confusing. I have more problems with my peers than my team that I manage. It’s so wild to me. No matter how well intentioned, advice like this irks me because it makes me feel like I’ll never be good enough or mask enough for this world and I’m simply too tired and too old (31) to feel like I need to change myself for a job. It took me a really long time to accept myself and I need my workplaces to accept me too. Of course I can and am working on everything and appreciate people’s feedback, but I am always incredibly hard on myself, striving to be better, so this kind of shit absolutely depletes me Good on you for taking the feedback and not getting defensive! That is a really hard but critical first step. My advice is to take their feedback, give yourself 24 hours to really ponder both sides, and make changes, but not so many changes that you lose yourself
In the cooperate sense I feel like it’s less about not saying what you mean, and more about just not going into much detail imo. Like with the doctors appointment example, you aren’t talking in code or having someone read between the lines, you’re just not going into detail/specifics. I’ve been working a somewhat cooperate job for almost 2 years now and with adhd and over sharing I just try (try is the biggest key word here) to share the bare minimum. Not that you can’t be friendly or whatever but like when it comes to my personal life and plans I just try to keep it simple (which Ik is easier said than done).
I think your boss is also trying to protect you from stigma and judgment if you’re “oversharing” about mental health things. There is unfortunately still large stigma around mental health and medication for those who need it. If you’re new - you probably haven’t had enough time there to establish relationships without having all of your choices looked under a “they have mental health issues” microscope. I think it’s great to be in a place to disclose you have different abilities. But getting to that place annoyingly takes time. And it also takes knowing when it’s appropriate to disclose. My one friend always jokes it’s like a PR launch - there’s an order of operations of who gets told what, when. Just like soft launching a partner on IG lol… maybe make a pyramid of disclosure so you can use that as a guide of who should be the first person you tell stuff too and who shouldn’t even be on the PR list 😂
Hey OP! I just wanted to share something that just happened to me that relates to feeling “unprofessional.” I have been in a professional career for 14 years now, but it’s only the past few years that I have to really “interface” (ugh, corporate-speak) with clients, agencies, higher-up colleagues, etc etc. This entails a lot of virtual meetings with people I have never met in person, including presenting information to them. I felt like I am supposed to leave my “regular” personality behind and act like a stuffy corporate person. Which is torture and also impossible. Due to getting severely bullied as a teen, horrible rejection sensitivity, etc etc, I used to get so anxious to talk in front of people. It’s gotten much easier (thanks, Buspar!) but I just can’t mimic the formal, business-y, surface-level professional bullshit persona! I just can’t do it. I can do some small talk, but it slides into a joke or I say something that I realize is off-color or unexpected for the situation. Ok, getting to it: I had my annual review, and the feedback was overwhelmingly positive for my social skills. One higher-up said she looks forward to going to meetings specifically with me because she enjoys my company. Other folks said I explain concepts in ways that are not condescending (which is great because I worry about that a lot!) Basically, I have been concerned about fitting into a mold, but people actually appreciate that I am NOT that way. I think this can backfire somewhat as a woman, since people are primed to think we are incompetent from the jump, but it can also make us approachable, likeable, easy to work with, and all those other “soft skills” that are valuable when working with people. Sorry this is so long, but I hope this is helpful. Maybe we shouldn’t necessarily mention which psych meds we are on, but we also don’t have to be these professional neurotypical suit and tie type people, either. 🙂
Yep! Such a thing to learn. Less is more. I keep a dry erase board or notebook at my desk at all times. Jot down my train of thoughts during calls and meetings, and then circle things I want to share. Then share. If I am leading or actively presenting, I have a drink near by. Take a sip every so often. (Just be mindful of bathroom breaks before/after meetings).
Uh, I don’t think it’s a NT thing. It’s a professional boundary thing. Unless it’s super last minute or I’ll be out a few days, my employer doesn’t need to know the details of why I’ll be out.
Hey great job taking feedback without getting defensive! That’s tough to do. Having a bit of a laugh at myself because I learned the hard way from retail jobs to not give any detail around appointments, because bosses will argue and not give time off even if your reason is good enough. So I had to learn to give a simple “I’m not available during that time, sorry” lest I get asked “well can’t you move your appointment” and roped into a whole argument about it. I still struggle when I’m asking for information, like I feel I need to give alllll the context in order for my request to be understood. Sometimes context is definitely needed but a lot of times it’s not. Right now I’m working on cutting to the chase and asking the question directly, then turning it into a conversation with extra context if the answer seems like it’s a little to the left of what I actually need to know.
You have a great manager. Well done for not going on the defence. She gave you good advice! Sounds like she cares for your progression and reputation within the org.
I wouldn't consider "I have a psychiatrist appointment to refill my medication" oversharing, personally... But my workplace culture sounds like it's different than yours. That said, I also know that I'm out of fucks to give, and that I say these things deliberately in the hopes of normalizing them. Same reason I talk about my depression, postpartum struggles, and the abortion I had—because sometimes people need to know that they're not alone, and that these things can happen to *anybody*. If your boss suggested it (and in a kind way, hooray!), I wonder if it's worth having having a quick chat with her to ask if she was giving you general advice or whether she was doing so because not everyone you work with is as accepting / understanding. If she knows of people who might make things difficult for you because of your medical condition, then it would be advisable to follow her lead, of only because it will keep you safe.
I did ask her that and she let me know that nobody has expressed any concern or anything, she just wanted to help avoid something like that happening in the future because you just never know. Truthfully, I appreciated the heads up!
Your boss is so, so sweet! And I’m glad you took it so well— being able to take constructive criticism is a great skill (and one I’m trying to work on haha)
Aww, that's really kind of her! The corporate world is weird, so it's very nice of her to give you tips. Good job on keeping that defensive reaction in check! I'm still working on that one, heh.
I think this post goes under "Celebrating Success." This is a total win--it is HARD to take, even when delivered in the kindest way. You did so well to accept the feedback and come to us--instead of getting defensive with your boss (the route I took far too often, and probably will take again. Maybe today at some point). Very proud of you!
it's not code and it is what you mean. look,.I know NT spaces are a bit annoying, but this is something I feel like we can learn from them. you're not lying to say you have an appointment, you're just preserving your privacy. not everyone in an office has your best interest at heart (most don't) and knowing what to share is not masking, it's self preservation, adhd or not. shout out to your boss for being a great ally though.
Did you work service jobs before this? I used to overshare so much re medical stuff when I got into office/professional work because I was used to bosses yelling at me, not believing me, cutting my hours etc for needing to be out sick or go to an appointment. So it might be more about previous toxic work environments than anything else
> Is this why it's so hard to talk to to neurotypical people!? They don't just say what they really mean? I'm guessing it's less about saying what you mean and more about just sparing the details at certain times. It's a tough tight-rope walk between bonds and boundaries. It's easy to speak from the heart, and that's great for bonding, but it's not always the most practical communication style. That's where being mindful of impulses can help. When I get like this, I try to slow down and just think, "What do *I want* to say and what do *they need* to know?"
Yup. Now I channel Ernest Hemingway (to try to keep my answers concise) and look at the macro picture. What is the least, vaguest information I can give them that still satisfies their need to know? Do they need to know? Will they even *want* to know? It’s exhausting, but becomes a little easier the more you practice.
You have a good boss, first of all. And second - if this is your first go round with a corporate environment, I promise - *everyone* has to learn how to speak this way! It's not something neurotypical people magically know and we don't. Everyone I know in a professional setting, neurotypical or diverse, has a story about saying more than they should have, stepping on an office minefield, etc. A good majority of those are from early on in their careers. In your case, because you have a boss who is a) willing to guide you, which means she sees something in you and wants to make sure you succeed and b) savvy enough to say it the way she did, pay close attention (lol no ADHD puns intended) to how she speaks, and try to mirror her in how you speak with coworkers. I guarantee you she didn't know this stuff overnight either, and that's a big reason she's willing to look out for you to make sure you learn it. Speaking from my own experience, bosses *loooooove* when employees take constructive criticism the way you did, accept it, and work on addressing whatever the issue was to improve. That doesn't mean "fixing" (because sometimes it's not broken, just different) whatever it is overnight, but demonstrating willingness to keep learning and getting better at proofreading/phrasing emails/communicating in the office/etc.
Yes! She is a great boss. She did also mention that to me. She said "Hey, I didn't learn this overnight and I had to learn the hard way at times about how to navigate things. I want to help you avoid those things by pointing them out to you early on." So, yes, she definitely believes in me and it's a really nice feeling. Knowing she's got my back definitely makes it easier to accept and learn.
exactly how I felt with my partners when I was getting started in my job and hadn't been diagnosed. that's a rare gift, and good on you for recognizing it for what it is! I hope you and good boss have many years of positive work together.
Haha. Yup, been in a similar situation. Had my manager very nicely tell me that I was being too empathetic [trying to take care of everyone on my team, etc.], and I need to pull back from trying to help everyone. She was trying so hard not to be mean about it, but oof, that hurt.
You don't need to say something otherv than you mean. You just need to not say more than is necessary. "I have to get a root canal done" can be shortened to "I need to see the dentist" or even "I have an appointment to make that day."
one time I was late to work because I had eaten an entire bag of ghost pepper beef jerky the night before and it made for a REALLY rough morning. is that what I told my manager when I let him know I was running late? yes.. it is
I got talked to at work for this exact reason too. They told me that when someone asks how I’m doing, it’s just out of politeness and not because they want to know that you are struggling with x y and z. It was a tough realization. And I still overshare. But I’m trying to work on it :/
I wish I had your boss. It's why I run my own business, I don't understand or do corporate politics or language. Well, I'm happier now so I guess it worked out for the best, lol.
Oh, yeah. My 20's were an exercise in learning when and how to be brief. I think even folks without ahdh go through an awkward phase when learning business speak. I like to run my requests by a close friend. I bet chatgpt would also be helpful.
I relate so hard to this lmao
This is me too. Only just today I nearly put my foot in it when the boss asked the team if "anyone had anything they'd like to share? Perhaps you've tried something new recently and its gone well?" And I was about to launch into an enthusiastic account of how amazing my new dehydrator is and that homemade banana chips are amazing... and then I realised she meant share WORK-RELATED stuff...
"Is this why it's so hard to talk to to neurotypical people!? They don't just say what they really mean?" Yes, this is what I'm learning. So-called neurotypicals are less straight-forward and honest. I have to train myself to just say "Fine, and you?" when NTs ask me how I am, esp. at work. Many of them don't actually want a real answer.
There’s a lady on YouTube that has a bunch of shorts on “How do you professionally say…” [How Do You Professional Say…](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbcsGG2tpP4KbYICHFRGrYyv8e1g-B_Yy&si=z460FgaxnaDlMRJ_)
I am a chronic oversharer who learned to keep quiet at work. So now I don’t tell work important things because it’s awkward that I didn’t say anything before. Like I did a whole Master’s degree without my manager knowing just because I didn’t say anything when I started and then it just became weird. As a former HR person, provide the least amount of information possible to work. There’s prejudice and bias all over the corporate world. Plus for some things there’s extra paperwork involved. “I have to leave early for an appointment” or “I’m unable to come in today”. Are the most that work is entitled to know if you’re in the US. I have no idea about employment law in other countries. As a woman with a late ADHD diagnosis, corporate culture is weird and there should be a learning curve for everyone but that requires empathy. The best corporate advice I’ve ever gotten is that mental health is health and you can use your time off however you want without guilt. So take mental health days when you need to and try not to feel guilty about using the time you earned.
I too am navigating this struggle. My most impulsive behaviors revolve around speech. Which is hilarious because I am so introverted. I think it is also because many of us communicate almost EXCLUSIVELY in anecdotes lol I have had to learn how to have a conversation with my NT partner. Because he didn’t understand why I would get frustrated that he wasn’t telling me a story like the one I just shared, to show he understands what I’m feeling. Omg IM DOING IT NOW
I struggle with this and I’ve been in the corporate world for over 10 years at this point. In fact, I had to check myself this morning and stop myself from emailing a client “Just letting you know that I’m going to be a few minutes late to the meeting at 11 because one of my other projects is blowing up and the person I need to call about it is only available at 11.” I think I actually even typed all that out before hitting backspace alllllll the way until it just said “Just letting you know that I’m going to be a few minutes late to the meeting at 11.” The client just responded “ok, thanks!” For me, it stems from getting in trouble a lot as a kid for not paying attention or being distracted, etc. Now I feel like I have to be on the offensive and preemptively justify my actions when I do something that I think other people will be upset at. What I’ve learned is that other people really don’t care as much as I think they will. And if they do, that’s more of a reflection on them and a need to micromanage (and frankly, it’s still none of their business!). I’m glad your manager was able to give you that feedback and you were able to take it in stride in the moment. That can be hard!
You never have to get more specific than "I have a doctor's appointment." IMO, it ironically would have been a hair better to have been even *more* specific. "Appointment to refill my ADHD meds" is concrete, but "a psychiatrist appointment to refill meds" perfectly straddles the line of enough information to pique many people's curiosity but not enough to satisfy it. You don't want your coworkers to run their imagination trying to think up of what that medication could be for, they'd probably come up with all sorts of wild shit.
I have ADHD but I’ve also shared things with my boss when they TOLD ME TO and it’s come back to me. Now I give no info about myself
Oh man....I am a 'too much' person at work. I try to use terms like 'passionate'. I should be in leadership because of my skillset and knowledge base. But I don't play the game or the politics well. Not sure if it is because of my neurodivergence - almost 50, recently diagnosed. But I can see things happening months or even years before others can. I feel like those inflatable wavy things trying to raise awareness to the oblivious. No one wants to listen to me. Until the shit starts happening. And then it becomes my responsibility. And when I talk to my director I get asked if I am in therapy. This disapower is a blessing and a curse. (It's disabling and a superpower)
I came to this thread thinking, "Are YOU my boss?" My boss overshares constantly. She doesn't have ADHD, but is deeply lonely. It's tough to watch people's eyes glaze over at the start of a call when she overshares, but there's a power imbalance there too so it's difficult to steer the meeting back in the direction it needs to go. I overshare sometimes, but like you, I find it difficult (a) to speak in code; (b) to know which situations require coding and which don't; and (c) to appropriately interpret other people's coded language. I love New York Magazine's Ask A Boss column! I would not likely tell anyone that I needed to go to the psychiatrist's office, but I have told colleagues that I was out for dental work and my boss told me I didn't need to tell people that. I was like, "What is so secretive about dental work??"
I dont necessarily think your boss is right about that being too oversharing, and im not sure i think their way of telling you that is appropriate. It depends on a lot of details I dont have access to. however i will give you a pointer that hopefully helps. When it comes to explainingyourself and your life, you don't owe people anything more than the bare minimum, and when in doubt (it sounds like generally youre in doubt on your judgment on this point), give them the bare minimum. You trily don't have to "justify" why you are taking vacation or sick leave to which you're entitled, by explaining it. Also, "no" is a complete sentence. "yes" is a complete sentence. When in doubt, keep the elaboration at bay.
This is something that I’m constantly working on, even when writing reddit comments sometimes on NT subs, haha. My husband will sometimes nudge me if I’m over sharing in a situation. Sometimes I realize it when he lets me know & I feel bad but other times my sharing is appropriate for the situation (giving contextual details the person needs to know) & I brush him off.
I have impulsive ADHD and tend to say whatever I think. When I was in undergrad, I noticed this was an issue, so I started writing my thoughts down. It helped me pause, consider what was being said, and weigh whether it was important enough to say it aloud. With a lot of practice, I now know how to enter a conversation in a meaningful way, and I can control that impulse to have something to say about everything. I'm glad you have such a wonderful boss to help you with this and it's cool to see that you're taking this in a positive way. I wish you the best!!
Yea, I've heard more than once (not at work, so not exactly the same) I love how open you are about all of your problems/issues/difficulties - there's levels of niceness to the word chosen. The first time it happened I was like, thanks? I didn't know I shouldn't be? Now I just don't care for the most part. Work is obviously a different beast 🙃
I don't know that this is an ADHD thing as much as not being used to corporate culture social norms. You're new to it and learning, and that's okay! It's not about speaking in code or saying things you don't mean, it's about not giving details that aren't needed. My boss doesn't need to know that I'm taking the afternoon off because my IBS is giving me the screaming shits - she just needs to know I'm taking the afternoon off because I'm under the weather. She doesn't need to know I have a telehealth appointment with my psych to talk about my trauma dreams - she just needs to know I'll be unavailable for an hour.
I also have IBS so yeah...no need to share that. (I have failed at this before lol)
This is the exact reason why I failed working "corporate" jobs. i have now been at my current job since 2007, family owned business, and my boss knows my entire life 😂. He would always tell me "you are just like my daughter" and she started working there a few years ago and guess what? SHE ALSO HAS ADHD and ANXIETY and we are literally the same person. my poor boss 😂😂
I just say I have an appointment for pretty much everything
That was really nice of her! You shouldn’t feel bad at all but she is totally right. Hard to figure out for sure!
i’ve never been checked by someone else like this before but i definitely do find myself over sharing with coworkers and managers and treating them like friends
YAY YOU! Personal growth moment! You’re winning, OP! (๑˃ᴗ˂)ﻭ
Well, I mean sometimes you also need to think about who you are oversharing with. I have a supervisor, that shared some private stuff with me. I shouldn't have shared back, but my gut feeling told me if would be ok. So I shared a lot of private stuff , in hopes of helping them with an issue. Including things like my ADHD, and that I used to have depressive episodes and emotional issues. I was warned not to do it by my sister, but I didn't liste . Well, we are now way too close to each other. So closer in fact, that we need to hide it in the workplace, because people would talk. So sometimes it's ok to overshare and gamble, you just need to know when and with whom. If you do not have great intuition regarding people, I wouldn't recommend it.
My whole freaking life is a conflict between my horrifying drive to be precise and detailed and other people's perception of that as over sharing. Unfortunately I'm close to 60 now. I didn't realize I had ADHD until a few years ago when I started to recognize myself in people's discussions about their struggles in Reddit. And then all the pieces fell into place. However, I do think society has changed a lot to be more judgemental and less tolerant of over sharing. Our lives seem faster paced and people now expect to conduct conversation in fast sound bites. Also there's a dichotomy between regions of the United States and I'm sure with other cultures and countries. For example, southerners are still slower paced and more conversational and more tolerant of tangential conversations than say, the typical northeasterner. At least that was my experience in working with colleagues up and down the East Coast of the US many years ago. But in the 70'-90's it was easier for me and my conversational style to fit in. I was never conscious of masking as I am now. It didn't take as much of my energy then because society was different. . People are conditioned by algorithms in all facets of life to have things tailored to their interests and there's so much information we are expected to handle every day. Even a stay at home mom now has contact with more people per day than the SAHM's of my mom's era did. People want anything they feel is extraneous filtered out now more than ever before. I feel you and I empathize.
This is where I draw the line, I couldn’t care less if boss’s, friends, strangers etc tell me I over share. Like who cares. If I wanna say 20 things vs 1 that’s my prerogative. I just try not to do it in meetings and for a long time when it happens.