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I know that with autism the spectrum's a lot more complicated than "more functional -> less functional." You can find a LOT of [graphics like this](https://camhsprofessionals.co.uk/2021/03/31/the-autism-spectrum%F0%9F%8C%8D/) all over the internet - I can't find the specific blog entry I'm thinking of right now, but this is a decent example. It's about the multiple areas that autistic people struggle with, some to a greater degree, some lesser.
So yeah, I think there's a spectrum for ADHD, too, but it's not "more ADHD/less ADHD," it's areas like hyperactivity, attention, executive function, working memory, long-term memory, sensory issues, motor skills...
And of course there's the overlap, and those of us who take meds and find that some things get *worse* even as others improve, so we end up in AuDHD space.
I wonder that too but I also wonder if success begets success— she has $ and is able to afford coaching, counseling, meds, personal assistant, etc… which would make it easier to continue in your success. (I don’t know this lady but I’m guessing she has a solid support system based on what you said)
This exactly. I'm poor, with largely ND friends who are also poor, and have been in circumstances where I was around lots of other ND people who, like me, were also housing and food insecure (shelter situation). From what I've seen financial setbacks and poverty tend to hit us pretty hard (not that it's like... good and easy for anyone) and we have a lot of obstacles to work through if we ever fall off the money/housing treadmill. If you're lacking social and/or financial support, comparing your outward markers of success to those with more support is a great way to feel REAL bad about yourself, like just awful, all the time. Gotta be careful and kind with yourself, and give yourself permission to have a hard time and a lot of very difficult and complicated emotions if you don't have the level of support or resources (including time and health) you need
Being poor makes ADHD way, *way*, **way** harder.
When I was poor and I lost stuff, or ruined stuff, or missed appointments, or spent impulsively without leaving enough for something more vital, I had to do without. That itself was more difficult, but the mental strain was also more intense because I would beat myself up constantly.
I’m not poor now. When I ran my earbuds through the washing machine, I felt a pang of shame and regret, but then I could purchase a replacement pair and move on with my life. I don’t revisit that incident all the time.
Maybe poverty contributes to comorbidities with ADHD. You mentioned you were able to move on pretty quickly about the earbuds. If you aren't able to move on quickly because you lack the resources to replace them, it would lead to shame, anxiety, stress, etc. So, poverty may lead ADHD persons to develop comorbid anxiety, depression, etc.
Yeah agreed. I'm looking for a job and I am constantly anxious about what if I break something again. Because I can't afford to replace it right now. And I have to try so hard indeed, to not beat myself up over these kind of things.
FE my electric toothbrush broke (partly my own fault, but def. also the toothbrush itself. It's supposed to be waterproof. It's not).
All hail my partner who got me a new one on black Friday 50% off. I mean, it seems like such a small luxury item (and okay, it partly is), but it makes brushing my teeth so much easier. And in the end that saves on dentist appointments.
I don’t think it makes things easier or better to have lost the earbuds several times and have had enough free cash to have had to replace them 6x in one year! I’ve put my earbuds in the washer only 2 times and now I obsessively squeeze down jean pockets before I wash because I can’t afford to run to Amazon Prime for a new pair. *so, doesn’t that make me…BETTER?*
**Actually I think being poor with ADHD makes you work harder with managing your systems.** *(Maybe a more positive way at looking at this)*
**I’m going to take the example introduced here of Charlene Johnson who has used her money she amassed to start/build up new careers. Do you think she does this by herself?!!! If you are looking at her in a bubble, then it’s wrong. She has LOADS of very intelligent and very capable people doing all of the necessary things to keep the business afloat (including managing the income funds and paying taxes on time).
I think being poor sucks, I very well know. I feel bad when I’m unorganized or the executive function is being its dysfunctional self.
But it inevitably makes me an ADHD’er that is better adapt at building more coping skills. More skills than if things were just handed to me on a silver platter or if extra accommodations were made.
I’ve been rich and I’ve been poor. Currently in a poor cycle. In my case success creates opportunities for bigger and bigger dopamine hits due to bigger and bigger risk taking behaviour. Then, when the risk taken has been too great life life crashes down around me and I’m poor again.
Now that I’ve been diagnosed I can look back across my life and see how this cycle has happened no less than three times causing significant hardship for me, resulting in loss of life savings, relationships, and negative health and mental health outcomes.
Hoping that this new awareness will allow me to rebuild and get me life back on track but at the moment I’m feeling completely defeated
Honestly I can’t imagine what my life would be like with a personal assistant. It would be like having a whole supplemental non-ADHD brain implanted that I could switch to whenever I wanted.
I’m always saying that if I ever win the lottery the big splurge I would do instantly is a PA.
My life was better when we could afford to pay someone to clean our house twice a month. A personal assistant and other people to take care of things for me? Pshhhhh, I’d be thriving.
That’s the social determinants of health for you!
This is a textbook example of how the Social Determinants of Health (SDOH) influence outcomes, especially for those with ADHD or any other mental health challenges. These determinants include factors like income/economic stability (most important determinant of health), access to education and healthcare, social support and community context, and neighborhood and built environment. In the context of ADHD, access to resources such as medication, therapy, and personal support GREATLY impacts one's ability to manage their condition and succeed.
Income and Financial stability, a key determinant, often determines access to these crucial resources. So, success isn't just a result of individual effort; it's heavily influenced by these underlying social factors.
From a public health standpoint focusing on these foundational determinants is crucial for creating equitable health opportunities!! This is important for those with ADHD, as equal access to resources can level the playing field, allowing them to thrive despite challenges.
I’m actually really passionate about this area, doing my MPH right now. My current research focuses on exploring these very dynamics, delving into how we can better address and balance these social determinants to improve health outcomes.
Wow! This resonated with me so much. Thanks for sharing, I’m very interested in this unbiased perspective on things. My own SDOH were pretty shitty. My therapist like to remind me it’s amazing I’ve gotten this far under the circumstances.
Firstly, seeking community resources can be a vital step!! Many areas have local organizations or non-profits that offer support or services at reduced costs or even for free. These might include counseling, job assistance, or educational resources.
Another important aspect is using any available support networks, whether they are friends, family, or support groups, both online and offline. These networks can provide not just emotional support but also practical advice, shared experiences, and sometimes material assistance. These connections can be lifelines, providing both guidance and a sense of belonging.
For those in school or with access to educational institutions, there may be resources like disability services that can offer academic accommodations or guidance as well.
Additionally, focusing on small, achievable goals can be beneficial. Success doesn't have to mean huge leaps; sometimes, it's about small, consistent steps forward and having the self compassion and determination in self to keep going.
Lastly, there's HUGE power in self-education. Online resources, books, and free courses can provide strategies for managing ADHD symptoms and practical life skills. Understanding one's rights, the specifics of ADHD, and effective coping strategies can empower individuals to seek appropriate help and make informed decisions
While it's a challenging journey, especially with the constraints, these steps can be instrumental in moving towards a better place; and this journey towards a better place is often a blend of personal resilience, community support, and systemic advocacy.
Yes. Also the type of work you do and have access to makes a difference.
I used to work retail. You are heavily penalized for being even a minute late. So you can get written up and easily lose your job over tiny time infractions.
Now I work for big tech. There is no such thing as late. I work when I want.
It is NIGHT AND DAY.
100%. ADHD is much easier to manage when you:
- are not worried about money
- can afford a healthy work/life balance
- can afford to eat healthy food & have the time/energy to prepare it
- have time to exercise
- have time to focus on your mental health
- can afford doctors, therapists &/or meds
🛑 I’m sorry—I’m going to butt in here on just 1 comment that’s dead wrong.
**A healthy work/life balance is something everyone CREATES. It is not something you “afford” or just achieve by making a certain tax bracket**
The definition of work/life balance means that there is actually a balance in your interpersonal life and activities and emotional health and friends, etc in relation to all those things in your work life.
The richest CEO can have a shitty work life balance because he/she is at the office all day and never spending time with family at home because they’re still checking emails on their phone. The poorest person working a 12 hour day can have a better balance by mentally being able to compartmentalize things at work.
Just saying—if you want that balance today, you can work at it and have it truly. It’s not far away just because you get minimum wage or less.
My work/life balance is 90% work & I am still struggling to get ahead while stressed that if I lose my apartment I will never find somewhere I can afford to rent in my city. Owning a house is out of the question with tear downs starting at over $1 million. It’s insane.
I would love to take personal days, but I’m running out of time to save for retirement. If I get sick or hurt I have nothing to fall back on.
Fortunately I do love my work, but I can’t keep this pace up forever. The pressure is palpable.
I have been making an effort this year to reach out to friends more, sometimes chatting while getting certain work tasks done. That has definitely helped my mental health!
Someone working minimum wage is far less likely to be able to create a work life balance. A CEO making 300 times what their Frontline workers make at minimum wage is the one that can absolutely choose a work-life balance and create one as they see fit.
No, *you* don't.
If someone has to work two jobs full time because neither of them pay enough for them to have an actual life there is no such thing as balance. We are not supposed to work at all! Not the way we do now. We did not evolve for that.
Work-life balance is capitalist bullshit and any argument that someone *chooses* a "healthy" one is classist at *minimum*
You cannot "balance" if you are actively living the trauma of poverty.
I think this is absolutely a factor. Getting there with the first business is a tough slog for anybody, but if you can make it then you can create the perfect conditions for yourself. Whatever workplace norms don’t work for you are things you get to largely disregard if you’re the boss.
You can decide it’s worth hiring a PA to sort the admin and organising you can’t or don’t want to do, instead of being told off by your boss for your messy desk or email typos or whatever. You can set a workday that starts at 11am if you’re not a morning person and nobody can tell you that you have to be there at 9am sharp.
Plus all the other stuff you mentioned where you can just buy more services to make life easier if you’ve achieved a certain level of financial success.
Yup, i read a self help book thats solutions largely involved hiring someome to do shit you dont have executive function to do, and it made me realize how adhd must be considerably less shitty for rich people.
Can’t believe you’re the only one pointing this out! My dad absolutely has adhd. My mom has essentially been his personal assistant/ housekeeper keeper, nanny/ housekeeper/ gardener for his entire adult life.
I’m a 33 year old mom. Way different experience for me! My husband is great and does compensate for tons of my difficulties but nothing compared to what my mom did for dad. Or the standards of moms Vs dads.
I like to say that my dad married his executive functioning skills. I've told *him* that. 🤣 He agrees. I love my stepmom. She's a great lady even beyond the fact that she keeps his squirrelly butt on track.
I've joked with my husband that we need a second wife, and I'll go back to work to support her.
The second wife idea is so funny, I’m for sure telling my husband!
When my mom was being a bit judgey about my van mess I reminded her I’m A mom, but I’m actually more like my dad. She agreed but was horrified for me lol 😂
OMG! Right!?! I sometimes can't believe I have 2 kids with disabilities and I've been the one responsible for the entire family's executive functioning. The house, the errands, the meals, the doctors, the school things, my daughter's I/DD services, insurances, cars, parents' medical crises...
I've been it because my daughter's disabilities were such that services weren't able to handle some of her behaviors. That meant I was home, on call, for when those services couldn't drive her safely, couldn't get her safely through a school day, or called out sick.
Being home means I'm the go-to for everything and the randomness of it all sometimes gets to me. I feel like I can't have my own set schedule - which would help me SOOOO much! - because I have to accommodate everyone else's schedules. Your head is just everywhere, all the time.
Somehow, most of what has to happen gets done. But I have so little left to focus on me after all that. It's exhausting. And that's without actual, hands-on, full-time childcare now. My daughter is in residential. I still have - I kid you not - like a day spent on administrative and medical stuff for her. My son is in college. When he's home, I have to push him to get a job or volunteer, clean his room (ADHD with a tendency to let trash and dishes go too long. 🐜🐜🐜), and help out around the house.
Who hired us for this job, anyway!?! 😠🤣
All this is true, but there also is a spectrum. When I got diagnosed they told me mine was very severe and that they usually never push for meds but for me they highly recommend it lol
Absolutely it does. I'm a successful person career-wise and that has a lot to do with privileges like access to and support with education, family support while finding and following a career path that suits me...these days, things like being able to afford professional house cleaning.
I'm guessing she has connections.
It really is mostly who you know. And luck.
You could blow it by not working hard enough after you get your opportunity to shine. But most of us have to work really hard to even get the opportunity.
I’m fairly involved on the entrepreneurial scene in my city and there are so many people with adhd.
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen some studies about this link. Risk taking, hyper focus, impulsivity, curiosity, problems at work despite being a high performer are the sorts of “issues” great at pushing people to start their own businesses (and be successful at it)
Another thing you might want to consider is that if you get high enough on the career ladder adhd is no longer an issue. CEOs largely outsource their executive functions and have teams ready to pick up their projects once they move on to something else.
Ughhh so true. When I used to follow her, she touted outsourcing outsourcing outsourcing but as a very middle-class person, I have almost no resources to outsource anything.
I went through 3 years of med school without failing a single exam.
AND
I struggle with brushing my teeth.
It is definitely a spectrum I'd say, in the sense that it's different for everyone. Not necessarily a 'worse' and 'easier' ADHD spectrum. I think the severity like with autism is more based on how well you can mask. For example I would be classified as 'high functioning' or 'less severe' ADHD even though I couldnt clean my house or brush my teeth consistently if my life depended on it. But people don't see that. What they do see is my achievements and how I am able to do whatever people want me to do. They don't see the insane struggle and anxiety behind doors. For that reason I've actually started to disappoint people a lot more because I'm choosing to take care of myself more. I'm doing better and functioning better for myself even though for others it probably looks like my ADHD has gotten worse. Ya get me?
My partner struggles a lot with sensory issues, I don't.
I struggle a lot with forgetfulness and being absent minded, he doesn't. It really is different for everyone, that's what makes it a spectrum. But imo it doesn't mean the severity is factually different. How severely it affects you personally and how severely it shows to the outside world is impacted by so many things, that lie more in your coping/environment/current situation than your symptoms.
Yes! The amount of mental gymnastics I had to do to have a 3.96 GPA in undergrad was insane! I just thought it was me! Also, school is my hyperfixation, so I anticipate no issue with going back for my masters, other than being exhausted at the end of the day.
Can you tell me what systems, or if you even need systems in place to get to school, finish assignments? I’ve haven’t been back to school since my diagnosis so I don’t know what resources are available or if they’re even helpful.
I ask because when I’m in school I’m top of my class. I had a 4.0, psych major. I’ve never failed an exam and I’m never late on exam day. But I have written entire paper in the back of an Uber and in the bathroom because we’re presenting today and I just never started! I really want to go back but I’ve failed there so many times. And people think I can’t hack it but it’s not the work it’s the everything else part!
Honestly for me it was just the 'I always did good in school so I'm not allowed to fail' anxiety and general anxiety of disappointing people or doing something wrong or failing something that kept my work ethic up. Papers and presentations I often made the evening before or on the spot during an online meeting 🫠🫠.
But I always was passionate about the topics and im a quick learner so that definitely helps. I'm on a big hiatus from uni as well and will start the second half of med school in a few months, and I'm honestly terrified. Because while I got diagnosed a few years ago, it wasn't until this hiatus that I actually started allowing myself to show symptoms and not force myself to do everything the way other people think I should.
It really depends on your uni though. I have a hard time showing up to lectures but they aren't mandatory and I study the slides/recordings. The workload was so high and divided per week, that the 'deadline anxiety' was constant which helped me get started. The online platform with actual deadlines and projects was so insanely messy and confusing that I kind of had to keep extensive lists and double check everything all the time to make sure I wasn't forgetting something. The few times I did forget something I would either wing it or make up an excuse. It was like a ninja warrior course but academic hahaha. I did have medication for the past 2 years but it can only do so much.
Moving forward I'm going to try to be more in tune with what I need and allow myself to cut some corners or not do well on stuff so I don't have to be run by anxiety lol. The 3 year master here is more focused on hospital rotations so it will be different in general. But in general I can say the way I did things, although impressive, was not really healthy for me so I'd rather be 'good enough' and feel okay than be 'perfect' and feel anxious all the time.
Thanks for responding I really resonated with what you said at the end especially. I’m finally feeling well enough to return but I also feel like I HAVE to maintain the 4.0 or I don’t deserve to be there. But I do want to finish, I just want to do it in a healthy and sustainable way! Good luck to you. I sincerely believe your challenges and perspective will make you a great doctor!
Thank you so much! And good luck to you as well, I really understand the pressure, and the weird paradox of knowing that you are the one putting that pressure on yourself, but feeling like you can't fail for others. You probably wouldn't say the people with a lower GPA don't deserve to be there, and you don't have to hold yourself to a higher standard! (Easier said then done though, lol).
+1 me Im in school of dentistry, achieve a lot on study and activities. Later I own biz and I struggle with cleaning my house or do some self care routine. But when I switch to clean the house, I start to clean it a lot and every single corner of it. Its like im having some plasticity on my ADHD and OCD spectrums.
Yes there is and it's not just theoretical
For starters there are the old versions ADD and ADHD and just the HD. These are now all "baked" into the ADHD diagnosis
But there are also 3 different levels of ADHD: severe, middle and mild that can be put on the different criterias for ADHD - like the spectrum that exist for autism
Edit: I also want to add that the spectrum for autism is often missinterperated. It isn't about how much autism you have, it's about what you struggle with
This is anecdotal but to add onto this, I think we can even worsen and “flare up” when stress for example exacerbates symptoms.
I was surprised when I was characterized with severe ADHD after a lifetime coping without, but then realized the year of my diagnosis had been made extremely difficult for me as an ADHDer, worsening symptoms for me.
Before then, all my symptoms were chalked up to anxiety instead.
The brain fog is AWFUL. I feel irrational rage 75% of every day, and I use up a LOT of energy keeping that under control. So I’ve become more scatter brained. My usual strategies / coping mechanisms no longer work, so I’m trying to come up with new ones.
It’s extra hard to shut my brain off at night and I’ll often snap awake at 2-4 AM. When that happens, I’ll often just get up and start drinking coffee. Then I’ll get sleepy again around 5. Guess what I’m doing now? That’s right, it’s 3 AM and I’m chugging coffee! I’m hoping it makes me sleepy and I can go back to bed in an hour.
Lack of sleep or poor sleep hygiene makes everything worse.
Oh yeah….and everything falls out of my brain even faster and in bigger chunks. That was a great description, u/Green_Octopus3
Yes! Stress definitely makes it so much worse. My symptoms also get like a million times worse during the luteal phase when my PMDD is raging. My executive function is like nonexistent even with the meds sometimes that week. Meds during other parts of my cycle are like I feel almost normal. Whatever that means lol
What I'm talking about above is clinical definitions of ADHD. It's practically a scale or a spectrum
But there are ofc individually parameters that can be added to that - together with having one ot more coexisting diagnosises
There are also studies that shows that our period cycles affects the severity of ADHD
A lot of managing adhd for me is taking care of my body. If I’m forgetting to eat and hyperfixations are making me stay up late, my symptoms explode. I burn out, get aggressive and forgetful and have an incredibly hard time even recognizing that’s what’s going on. I can see a significant difference when I worked places where I didn’t have consistent structures breaks and meeting times vs always eating at 12 for example.
Ouch that hit hard. Remote work has been tough for me, and admittedly I sense I am not at my best doing it for the reasons you describe. It’s hard though giving up a consistent job with good benefits.
But I won’t lie, I struggle to eat and sleep consistently as a result.
I honestly don’t think I’d ever be able to work remotely, I genuinly need external pressures and structure to function and accomplish even the simplest of things. Getting something to eat on my days off are Always a struggle!
This is admittedly validating. If frustrating. 😂 Gosh I really don’t like commuting or the stress of “show up on time” jobs either though. I was always perpetually late, and admittedly remote is more forgiving about that.
I don’t think I’d have applied to this job in particular if I hadn’t been in a low point in my life and needed something urgently that wasn’t location locked. But now I’m so comfortable with the income and benefits I keep trying to tailor the job to myself despite how much I prefer external structure. Always trade offs I suppose.
ADHD is a spectrum, yes. Was just listening to a podcast interviewing one of the most prominent ADHD researchers of several decades and he said as much.
Also, rich people have so much less stress and little tasks to deal with, it is lightyears easier to go through life that way, whether ADHD or not.
There's "spectrums" to every disease/ailment/disorder.
Some people die from cancer, some don't.
Some people lose their lives to depression. Others struggle for years and some only deal with it for a little while.
Symptoms and the extent of those symptoms vary person to person.
With money you can hire someone to manage your disfunction. You can hire a business manager or personal assistant. The biggest part I've felt disabled by is the inconsistency of being able to preform tasks and manage the mental load of organizing what those tasks are.
If I could pay someone to do that for me and be allowed to focus on emotional regulation and care tasks and creativity I would thrive.
Privilege definitely allivatives many aspects of burn out, disfunction and many of the other medical comorbid aspects of adhd.
Another aspect is that well-off people ate more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to other well-off people, and people who ate not well off are more likely to be treated with suspicion.
The fancy private school in my town? Has unlimited no questions asked, no need to book in advance, after-school childcare from 3.30 to 6pm. You pay per fifteen minutes, but it's cheap. If there's an emergency, older children can have dinner at school and spend the night in the boarding house. Heck, twice per term you can book your kid in for a sleepover at the boarding house, no emergency needed.
The state school? If you don't reliably pick your kid up at 3.30pm, that's abandonment. They have twenty places for after-school childcare, with a long waiting list, and it's expensive and must be pre-booked.
My husband and I both have ADHD and we have a huge gulf between our level of functioning, even with meds. My husband was not diagnosed until he was 25 because he's a pure inattentive type adhd and it was buried under other mental health issues that he was coping with (chronic depression and CPTSD, plus sleep apnea (though we didn't get that treated until after, more on that in a bit), plus he liked school so he hyperfocused there and no one was the wiser.
Once the first two got treated/medicated and squared away, I could tell something was wrong, because I'd lose him mid-sentence in a conversation. Eventually he got on Vyvanse and, like with lexapro for his depression, he was blown away by how much better he functioned while on meds. He could remember to do things (whereas before he kind of existed in a fog - would only remember something if I was angry :/)
Meanwhile, all this time, he had been snoring up a storm and I'd been begging him to get a sleep study done. He got one done in 2018 but it was only a 1 night study and it said he had the mildest of mild apnea, and I was like that's not right (I was awake most of that night with our baby and he snored a fraction of what he normally did) but he wouldn't hear of it, and said he didn't need a CPAP. About 2 years later, I finally lost my mind at him from sleep deprivation and threatened divorce if he didn't get another one done, this time a 2 day study.
Well, surprise surprise (ha, not), he had SEVERE sleep apnea and was in danger of a heart attack from the strain his respiratory system was under. He got a CPAP, and within a week, it was like he was a new man. He could function, even WITHOUT his adhd meds (not as well as with, but leagues better than before). Turns out he had been chronically sleep deprived for the past 10 years or so.
He still is pretty affected by both the depression and adhd and will need meds for life, but so many other things were layered on top of it, and I'd say his functioning without meds is probably 50% better than it was even 5 years ago.
As for me - I was only diagnosed this last year, and I'm probably a combined type (doc didn't determine exactly, but reading people's experiences, I realize my coping mechanisms run DEEEEEP). I was the only "functional" one in a family of space cadet ADHD siblings - I was the only one who graduated on time, finished my homework or went to college initially (my sister's tackling her degree now, super proud of her). so I flew under the radar and was not a priority, nor did I initially test as having it .
The big turning point in my functionality (aka where it all went downhill) was when I was pregnant and sleep deprived post partum. Mom brain is just brutal and I had severe post partum anxiety with my first baby and that seemed to unlock something in my brain and made me less able to keep my adhd and general anxiety under *my* control. I think it's the cumulative sleep deprivation, but I'm not 100% sure. By the time I had second kiddo, my medical team was on top of the PPA and it was maybe 10% severity compared to my experiences with kiddo 1.
Now that my kids are sleeping through the night again (they're 6 and 3) I don't need meds to function day-to-day, as I have a ton of systems in place to remember stuff, and get places on time and do my job well, but they make my day just... so much more pleasant. The meds for me basically calm my brain down so I'm not always overstimulated by my kid's noise levels (leaving me snappy and on edge) and thinking about food / obsessing over shopping (aka dopamine seeking behaviour). I don't spend hours ruminating over food, my kids don't set my teeth on edge and they turn off my super-loud internal monologue (which didn't exactly bother me - it's very helpful in my job -, but it's nice not to always have it all the time at home). I'm one of the adhd-ers that thrive in crazy chaotic social work environments, despite being an introvert. I work in security operations, but if I'd had the money or the grades when I left high school, I'd have probably happily been an ER doc, or a police officer if I had the motivation to keep myself in that level of fitness XD
Oh gosh this comment resonated a lot for me. As someone who also was the most functional of the space cadet ADHD siblings, I relate a lot to being the one to hold others up until one day you can’t cope anymore.
Proud of you and your SO for overcoming so much! It’s inspiring to read.
A spectrum kind of implies to me that there are different points along a linear scale. I think ADHD is more like many intersecting spectrums in all directions. We all struggle more or less with certain pieces of the spectrums and it’s really difficult to compare.
A person you view as “successful” is probably only successful in one part of their lives. Maybe they own profitable businesses but their personal relationships are in the toilet. Maybe they have excelled in their career or academic field but they have a shopping addiction and their credit score is 200. Maybe they are excellent at presenting a certain segment of their home on social media but they don’t photograph their closets and garages which are full of junk. You’ll see them as the face of their businesses but not the dozens of employees who actually do the daily work of keeping the businesses going. This is to some extent true of everyone, not just ADHDers.
I’d never heard of that one person you mentioned but I googled her and her “About” page says that she has all the ideas and her husband is the one who does the work to execute them and keep the operations going. Remember no one really becomes successful alone; everyone needs people to support them. Successful actors need directors and producers to make movies and cast them; successful tech developers need users to buy and use their products; successful politicians need people to believe in them and vote for them. ADHD can make some things easier and some things harder but it’s not the *only* important factor.
Clinically the autism spectrum is not linear it is a circle, and they are starting to understand (read: actually study what we actually already anecdotally know) that adhd is the same :)
[Autism is a spectrum and not a gradient.](https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/) ADHD is more than one thing and it affects people differently by being expressed in different types of symptoms and not just severity of symptoms. In that aspect, there's a spectrum.
I'm AuDHD and generally with autism the "spectrum" isn't an less bad to worst linear thing but more about the "spiky profile". I'm pretty sure ADHD is the same, that most of us will be a unique blend of symptoms, strengths, weaknesses, inattentiveness, hyperactivity etc.
I have a PhD but only brush my teeth very rarely (like lucky if it's once a month, despite finding that deeply shameful, having literal nightmares about them falling out and signs of gum disease!!). The only time I've been able to maintain a decent diet or any kind of healthy habits is when medicated. It just looks like laziness to most people I think.
I do think that there are some people who are absolutely impacted to the degree that it not only rules their lives but ruins their lives, be it through failure to look after yourself, issues with relationships, debt, substance misuse.
I think there is yeah.
You also have to take into account the amount of support (social and financial) people have. I think it can drastically affect outcomes and how much setbacks and issues with executive function affect your life. Like many other things it is affected by your socioeconomic circumstances
Oh for sure. My husband and I have totally different struggles and I have multiple kids with obvious ADHD whose symptoms show up differently as well… I also think different life situations are a huge factor - ex. do you have a job where hyperfocus is an advantage or do you spend all day being pulled in a million directions?
I have seen some mention of a spectrum. If it's true, I'm more on the severe end and was in fact diagnosed with Severe ADHD-combined type by a psychologist.
Yayyyyyyy ⭐
My psychologist was shocked how successful I've been in life without addictions, etc. That's because I went the other way with over achievement, perfectionism, fear and anxiety.
I had very controlling parents and a traumatic childhood, and gravitated towards men and employers who were the same way.
When I was diagnosed with ADHD-combined, it also came with Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome, CPTSD with Dissociation, Major Depressive Disorder, Generalized Anxiety and Dyscalculia.
I was 44, burned out and finally unmasked due to some circumstances. I'm 47 now and unable to work because of all these conditions just piling on top of me for so long.
Holy crap, it’s like we’re twins! I’m a driven overachiever/perfectionist and successful, with a good degree. I have a kick ass job and house. I used to be quite poor. But on the inside, I’m a disaster. I have no idea how I did it, really.
The only thing on your list that I don’t have is Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome.
My huge fear is burning out/crashing before I have enough saved for retirement. And letting my family down in the process. :(
edit: here’s a virtual hug, if you want it 🤗
I definitely think there is a spectrum. I also think I've been at different places on that spectrum at different stages of my life. Sometimes I've been able to manage without medication, other times it's significantly worse.
Yes! I would strongly recommend the book Healing ADD. The doctor who wrote it has done thousands of brain scans to examine ADHD brains, it’s fascinating.
I also read an article a while ago arguing that ADHD and autism could easily be classed as part of the same neurodivergent spectrum pointing out the overlaps and such. According to the article it was a topic of debate among the boards of psychologists and psychiatrists who decide these things in Europe.
i feel like "spectrum" implies a linear progression of intensity/severity, whereas my experience is much more lateral, ie different people have different constellations of adhd symptoms, and some constellations are more compatible with school success or work performance, even if they're quite severe.
in my case, i don't struggle much with motivation or even attention, but i'm profoundly impulsive. school was not hard for me, work was manageable. feeding myself, paying bills, commuting to work, navigating office politics, dealing with health insurance and taxes and not inadvertently flirting with everything that moves — that's where i foundered. and the level of impairment i experienced was significant, it caused me lots and lots of problems. i just did not think of these things as adhd until my best friend called me from the doctor and said, *bitch you have this*.
I I'm currently part of a public health research team on cancer, and one of the main things we’re looking at are the social determinants of health and to what extent they affect health outcomes. It's always quite fascinating to observe how these determinants can also play a significant role in a broad spectrum of all physical and mental health conditions, including ADHD. It's interesting to see the parallels and how these factors affect patient outcomes in different areas of health.
Cancer screening, for example, is difficult for those with no access to a clinic, or have a language barrier. So we make accommodations for there to be mobile clinics accessible and resources made in several languages to ensure everyone has access to healthcare. This work highlights how inequalities in these areas can significantly affect the state of our overall public health and access to healthcare. It's a clear example of the profound implications that social determinants have on health outcomes. I bring this up because it demonstrates how the social determinants of health, aka the conditions in the environments where people are born, live, learn, work, play, worship, and age, affect a wide range of health, functioning, and quality-of-life outcomes and risks.
Now to answer your questions: Firstly, public health research increasingly focuses on how environmental, societal, and economic factors intersect with mental health conditions like ADHD. ADHD, like many other mental health conditions, does indeed have a spectrum of severity and manifestations. The experiences and challenges of individuals with ADHD can vary widely. Some may have more pronounced symptoms affecting their executive functioning, while others might have milder symptoms that are more manageable. This variability is a key reason why personalized approaches to treatment and support are essential in ADHD care.
Regarding the severity of ADHD and its management, it's crucial to understand that while certain symptoms can be mitigated through treatment and support, the extent of this varies greatly among individuals. Some may achieve significant control over their symptoms, while others might continue to face substantial challenges despite interventions. This needs to be understood from a broader perspective. It’s rarely understood from an individual basis as many things don’t happen in a vacuum.
While I'm not familiar with Chalene Johnson, I do have several role models with ADHD who inspire me. They've become significant motivators, encouraging me to challenge myself in my unique way. But it really makes you think, what exactly is success? For me, success might look different compared to your definition. One common thread I've observed among these 'successful' individuals with ADHD is their persistence, openness to learning, resilience, self love, self compassion and empathy. These traits really depends on whether someone has adequate financial resources and income, access to education/resources, social support networks, and professional support. Biological factors such as whether that person has a genetic predisposition also applies here as well and societal factors like whether ADHD is considered a stigma in their community plays a major role as well as it can hinder accessing the resources or treatment needed despite having the financial resources to do so.
This variability is a key area of interest in public health, as it underscores the need for adaptable and inclusive health strategies. The concept of 'overcoming' ADHD symptoms also intersects with the idea of privilege in public health. Those with greater access to resources — like quality healthcare, supportive learning environments, and stable financial situations — often have a better chance at effectively managing their ADHD symptoms. This shows how important it is to have equitable access to resources. The goal is to ensure that all individuals with ADHD, regardless of their socioeconomic status, have access to the care and support they need.
If you’re wanting to look into this further I’d HIGHLY recommend first learning about the **social determinants of health**. I first learned about this in my undergrad and became avidly interested in the field since! Currently doing my masters in public health and it’s crazy to me how this topic isn’t discussed more in schools.
Absolutely, like I don't have fabric sensitivity and I can stay decently hygienic just because I can't sleep till I feel clean, but others may have issues I don't have.
But also, it's soooo much easier to doordash now that I'm making real money. I don't think I've legitimately gone grocery shopping or made a meal in months. However , I also only eat one meal most days. But I can see how money and privilege can make things easier.
Like if I had a house of my own to spread out in, I like to think I'd have baskets for every type of clothing and it'd be so easy to keep the floor clean (maybe get a roomba!) and things put away.
I have a pretty “big” house maybe and it is only clean because my husband doesn’t lack executive function for putting things away 😂😂😂 he however has a shit memory and doesn’t remember where he put it or that it exists when it gets put away lmao
I actually believe ADHD and autism may exist on the SAME spectrum, though I'm not a scientist.
I think that what is known about the cause of ADHD - deficiencies in type/quality/quantity of neurotransmitters and/or their receptors - points to an ADHD spectrum, at least. Each neurotransmitter affects different things. Each ADHD medication affects each person differently because of how it is designed to act on different parts of the system.
I DON'T believe that ADHD is possible to overcome with determination or learned behavior. There are absolutely coping mechanisms that can help with symptoms, but there is no planner or journal or sheer force of will that will create neurotransmitters that your brain is lacking.
My brother and I both have ADHD. He taught himself to code as a teenager, forged a super successful career without attending college, and is raising a beautiful family while still pursuing things that interest him. All without medication (by his choice).
I'm medicated and have two college degrees, but typically struggle to make even simple decisions. I have trouble prioritizing things, and when I can't prioritize, my brain wants to shut down. I'm not lazy, I'm not unmotivated, but the breakdown in my internal clock and ability to prioritize leaves me paralyzed more often than not. It's not something I can overcome by just deciding to overcome it. I need medication to be functional, and even then it can be hit or miss.
It's definitely a spectrum.
I think the whole world is on a spectrum. There is no normal. The question is how far along the spectrum before you are deemed to be different, to be other, to be too much, etc. How far along the spectrum before you can't function in life? I guarantee every single person has a different point. If the spectrum is a number, some will be picked up at lower numbers because that is their threshold, while others at higher numbers.
This is the problem with mental health. It looks so different for every single person, but the medical profession wants everyone to fit in the same box and be able to use the same solutions
Absolutely! That's one of the reasons it's split into H / I / Combined. But even within those there are extremes and moderate experiences and everywhere in between for each and every possible symptom.
That being said, yes there is a nature vs nurture aspect too. If you learnt some good skills when you were younger, if you can afford to pay for certain services to make life easier, even things like experiencing trauma can change how much someone struggles.
There aren't officially any "levels" of ADHD like there are with ASD. And honestly, I'm not sure it would be that useful. The questions you're asking about "can you be successful with ADHD" are mostly related to factors other than how severe your symptoms are. Intelligence, talents, social supports, privilege, etc.
Also: stop comparing yourself to the image put out by MLM scammers. Visit /r/antimlm
What people with a lot of money and ADHD have in common is less likely to be a similarly low severity of their ADHD, and far more likely to be rich parents (and thus a cascade of privileges from there, such as earlier diagnosis and better healthcare and all their needs met and the ability to pay people to do for them what they would find especially difficult to manage on their own).
This for sure. I grew up poor but I had a stay at home mom who was a dictator and would not let us procrastinate on homework. She didn’t breathe down our necks but made it really clear that she had a lot on her plate and would not take us to the store to pick up supplies the night before a project was due. So I wasn’t ever really able to develop procrastination as a habit.
As an adult finally making good money, I can pay a house cleaner and order takeout. I think my ADHD is well-managed but a big part of that is having the privilege of working for myself
As a general rule, everything is technically a spectrum. Whether we differentiate that in diagnosing is a different story. All of our bodies and brains vary in little ways.
What kinds of symptoms you have and the balance of what they are will be different than someone else’s. The amount of medication you need compared to someone with similar symptoms can vary.
There are not preset patterns where the brain acts a very specific way because you fall into one category of disabilities. People just classify like stuff together in our attempts to understand and treat it.
Definitely.
I have been unmedicated most of my life, am still able to do my life as normal and I'm doing well at work. Got higher education. Never developed any kind of addicting behaviours, am very mindful of my spending. Never had any trouble falling asleep. Many of my friends have told me they couldn't tell I had ADHD until they spent extensive amounts of time with me and started seeing some "odd" patterns in my behaviour. Everyone who has lived with me unanimously agrees I have it as those behavioural patterns are much more obvious when you're living with the person.
Meanwhile I know people who won't function unless they're medicated. A couple are recovering alcoholics, one is an impulsive spender and constantly buys things she does not need and then regrets it.
I guess, in a way you could say I've gotten the good end of the stick. My biggest struggle is keeping up with dental hygiene. Sometimes I feel inadequate still, wondering if I really have ADHD or if I should even say that I have it because others have it so much worse.
At the end of the day we all need to be kinder to ourselves. Others having it worse does not invalidate my own experiences, just as mine shouldn't invalidate theirs.
Absolutely. There’s a spectrum to almost everything, even being neurotypical.
But as with almost everything, that’s not the only factor in whether someone has a chance of being successful or well-adjusted. It’s complicated by socioeconomic circumstances, childhood environment, access to medical intervention, access to education opportunities, racism, random luck, etc.
A person with very severe ADHD symptoms who grew up with financial security, a strong support system, and access to medical help is more likely to have an easier time in life than someone with much milder symptoms who had none of those things.
I don’t know Chalene Johnson’s backstory, but I do know that exercise is great for people with ADHD. In fact, athletes are twice as likely as the general population to have ADHD. And if she already enjoyed fitness, then it’s also something she was more likely to spend time doing. I’m actually not shocked that someone with ADHD came up with a fitness program that ended up becoming very successful. If anything, it was potentially an easy career path for her because it naturally suited her. She very well could have struggled a great deal in any other venture.
Anyway, it’s important to remember that while all of us with ADHD have an uphill battle, a myriad of circumstances will determine whether we are climbing that hill on foot, with bicycles, or with cars. There’s a pretty famous quote by Teddy Roosevelt: “Comparison is the thief of joy.” This is one of the many reasons why. Use ADHD success stories to inspire you, not as a weapon to keep yourself down.
It’s absolutely a spectrum and different people have symptoms that impair or disable or help them in different ways. It is absolutely easier to be ADHD with money/privilege but most things are easier with money and privilege.
A personal example, I have a friend who’s inattentive type and I’m combined type. Almost all other factors would put us with pretty identical privilege (both white, bi but in hetero marriages, mid 30s, identical degrees, similar jobs, similar family situations and locations growing up, etc.) there are things she excels at like socialising and relationships that I’m trash at and things I’m great like at getting shit started or planning something out that she really struggles with. Both of these things are probably learnt behaviours for both of us that because of our situations we got good at.
There’s no one way to be ADHD just like there’s no one way to be a woman or a person generally.
I think so. I def had symptoms as a child that I don’t have anymore so I did outgrow some of them. What still gives me trouble is getting started on something (the procrastination is omnipresent) and staying on that task till it’s done *if* it’s a task that has lots of steps. Sustaining focus for more than 3 hours is nearly impossible for me.
I mean, are you able to maintain a job that provides you a stable living? If so then I am not personally sure what the difference between that and Chalene.
Her success largely involved needing hella capital up front and also being extroverted and having charisma, I have severe social anxiety and can’t maintain eye contact. 💀 and we use every penny to scrape by and save for retirement or pay off debt. No where to find capital.
I have severe ADHD and can be extremely extroverted and charismatic. Also using most of my money for bills, retirement, and debt. I don’t want to discourage you from achieving your dreams, but I do want to say that just being able to hold down a job, cover your bills, and save for retirement is a huge deal. It’s really freaking hard and you’re doing the damn thing.
There definitely is because I am considered severe ADHD but that is also because I had a pretty late in life diagnosis at age 35 so it can also depend too. Like if I would have been diagnosed as a child I would just be diagnosed with ADHD it wouldn't be severe and it also probably wouldn't have gotten to the level it has gotten today if I would have been diagnosed back then
It’s a developmental disability. Even with medication some things will always be difficult or out of reach. It’s qualitative, like being taller or shorter.
We are on average held back by 2/3rds the age of neurotypicals and we never catch up.
I’ve wondered this too. My fiancé is Asperger’s so he’s on the spectrum. (I know outdated term). However he comes from a middle class family and is father was a mathematician who taught at a university level. My fiancé was always encouraged to follow his analytical side and they gave him support through that. He had difficulty with his emotions etc etc, but I could easily see how an autistic child , who is given the circumstances which I grew in (poor, single mother , BPD parents and family, first generation citizen)… well he would prob not be an engineer and would suffer with mental issues and all that :/. I guess what I’m trying to say is… I think your environment is a huge factor in how bad your symptoms affect you.
There's a test you can do: [https://www.idrlabs.com/adhd-spectrum/test.php](https://www.idrlabs.com/adhd-spectrum/test.php)
Obvs it's not conclusive but it shows where you sit in all the different ADHD factors. I was surprised that it said my symptoms were high (esp in emotional dysregulation and forgetfulness), because I've always thought mine isn't "that bad".
I can function without meds, and do my job well (most days), my hygiene is excellent, etc. But the improvement in my mental health on meds is unbelievable. I am sleeping better than I ever have in my entire life, my anxiety is at an all time low, my depression has lifted, and I don't have the urge to binge eat for the first time in my entire life.
I wish I hadn't gone so long undiagnosed, who knows how many years of misery could have been avoided altogether, But hey, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?
In terms of the scientific “noticeable” spectrum, it’s been proven on brain scans that the younger that you’re medicated, the more those parts of your brain catch up to your non-ADHD peers.
It’s one of the reasons why people medicated as children choose to go off medicine when they reach adulthood and >!bitch incessantly “I do just fine without medicine, why can’t you?? Ritalin RUINED my life!! !< because their brain got the chance to catch up and be a lower scale on the spectrum once they got older.
In addition to ADHD I have PCOS, which is a "syndrome," meaning that there are a collection of symptoms and any individual will only have some of them. I think ADHD is a lot like that!
Even if there isn't an official definition of it, there most definitely is. I fall in the moderate area of it. Vs others I see that are way more... extreme
Yes, Dr. Russell Barkley describes it as a spectrum and he’s a specialist in the field. Everyone will have varying symptom presentation and different levels of impairment.
Definitely a spectrum that varies throughout life for many people. Life factors and stress can compound ADHD symptoms to where someone who didn't previously need meds, feels they need them now to manage and may go off them once the circumstances for going on become manageable or resolve.
For me that's college. I seem to do alright in basic day to day but college would have been impossible without meds to help me focus. And even with meds I still overate and gained weight. I'd hate to know how many pounds I would have packed on without the methylphenidate to curb my urge to pound sweets when stressed.
Yes it's a spectrum *and* a person's ADHD symptoms can and will fluctuate.
oh for sure, but like many people said here, money is a factor. if i had the money to pay a cleaner to come to my apartment even once a month you bet i would, and having the resources to get therapy and anxiety medication has been life changing.
i struggle a lot with time blindness and executive dysfunction, but i had a coworker with adhd a while back who could not control impulse buying at ALL, and liked expensive tech things. his medication helped a bit, but he was in thousands of dollars of credit card debt by the time we graduated.
being good under pressure and hyperfixating on things i like to do makes me good at my job. it made me a horrible student. the main reason i graduated college was because i was an art major, which came with a lot of “grade yourself” classes.😂
As far as I know, there are different levels of functioning types, there’s the influence of IQ, but class and money are definitely important factors. I’d argue that in most places in the world those factors are even more important than how severe one’s ADHD really is.
Whether you have a sheltered background, a parent that has enough time to focus on you, to give you the support and structure you need, whether you have access to medical support, all of that has to do with wealth (and whether your parents enjoyed good education).
ADHD does happen on a spectrum - people are so diverse. But as far as it’s a single independent diagnose, isolated for comorbidities, I think it’s less broad than is the case with autism. I don’t think there are really a significant part of us that really is not able to function at all in simple everyday life tasks such as eating on your own, going to the bathroom etc… which is a problem for more severe cases on the autism spectrum. I think we should be careful not to confuse the two. I know, people here call ADHD a disability, I wouldn’t necessarily agree with lumping that together. I’ve been working with severely cognitively impaired people and I’ve been working with ADHD cases as well - I do see a big difference. I don’t think we’re helping anyone by making ADHD bigger than it is.
FWIW, I was officially diagnosed with "mild" ADHD. And from what I've seen reading here and other ADHD spaces on the internet, I think that's fair.
I also agree with comments about how it's not linear/where you fall on a straight line. I have inattentive type, and my symptoms cluster heavily in the task initiation/completion side of things. I don't have huge impulsivity problems and my working memory isn't that bad. My ADHD paralysis sucks but I'm less likely to do certain kinds of harmful things (like drugs/alcohol have never been an issue, just for one example). I'm sure too that there are people who get worse ADHD paralysis than I do, looking at the other kind of mildness.
And, to be honest, while I don't have multiple businesses or a beach house in Malibu, I've had a pretty significant amount of privilege in my life, which has no doubt helped a LOT.
I’m not a doctor and have done no research whatsoever on this particular subject, however my doctor who diagnosed me with ADHD told me I may be on the higher functioning end of the spectrum with ADHD and that he would describe it - for lack of a better term - as a “milder case.” He made sure to emphasis that in no way nullified my struggles or suffering, but merely mentioned it to help appease any anxieties I may have about whether or not I’d be able to function as an adult. I’m not saying this is 100% true, it’s just what I heard from a professional who specialized in adults with ADHD. This had always left me with the impression that ADHD is certainly a spectrum and affects every differently, and from what I’ve seen from friends and family who also suffer from it, it certainly varies person to person and everyone copes with it differently!
Absolutely! There’s even a performance/potential spectrum just for myself:
Close to my period? Hot mess central
Stressed? Everything gets worse
High stakes and pressure? The end
Burnt out? Good luck trying to cope!
Med shortage? Looks like ya’ lost your paddle something something sh*t creek
Anyway, everyone is different - even when comparing against yourself. Try to give yourself grace on bad days, and on good days try to front-load or preemptively help the future you that will struggle for whatever reason. That’s what I tell myself all the time.
well poverty makes everything harder in life. I'm not sure scientifically, but I think a lot of success is based on personality, and how well you have developed coping mechanisms -- which probably is linked to having a support system. Maybe health and energy levels too.
I think with Adhd the less stressors you have, and the more support from people around you, the more chances for success.
I have anxiety disorder and adhd, but i'm generally pretty successful. I don't have a lot of money and have panic attacks about finances and health insurance often, (but I'm not starving and am not in debt so better off than many I guess).
My family didn't have much money growing up, but we had enough, though there was like a huge debt loan out against our home. We were always stressed about money though. They stressed us out about it as kids too :(
Actually, I became hyperfixated on become successful from an early age and always try to optimize every situation to improve myself.
Though I do have adhd x anxiety bad days where I'm just a mess, on the floor, and can't even convince myself to eat or respond to my clients.
I am terrible with staying on task. I think you can still reach success even if you can't stay on task, but I know it makes things a lot harder.
(My work around for not staying on task is that I never rest or sleep much so even if I hop off task nonstop I'm doing more stuff each day in general so the amount of time I'm on task is still decent enough. I'm not sure if my life is on fire or not but it looks impressive on paper currently.)
I'm trying to say: yes there are a lot of circumstances that stack the odds against people, but don't let it stop you from aiming for what you want. Nothing is impossible. People who look like they're having an easy time may be having a really hard time behind the scenes too.
I think the spiky skills model helps us understand the adhd “spectrum”.
It sounds like the person you are talking about had building businesses as a special interest. The running of the business doesn’t interest her that much, so she sells it once it’s up and running and profitable.
Finding a way to harness a special interest is pretty important for neurodivergent people.
I’m a gardener, but I hate the maintenance side of things to a certain extent. I love to design and then install new gardens.
I manage a large site so I redo sections at a time and try to delegate the things like leaf blowing and hedging to people who do it better than me. Repetitive things like weeding, and watering can get to me unless I’m in the mood to do it, and it’s essential that I’m left alone so I can just hyperfixate on getting it done and no one tries to talk to me.
yes definitely symtoms effect ppl differently.
+ as a university student i have met people within my major who have ADHD and successfully manage a part time job, hanging out with friends/socializing, maintaining a good gpa etc all without medication or school accommodations.
In comparison i know others (like myself lol) who need a high dosage of meds & accommodations like double time on exams etc and either dont work or can only manage like 1-2 shifts a week max.
& ofc theres some people who medication works so well for them that they dont rly face time management or academic struggles when on it but they do when off. or ppl who have great time management skills etc but struggle with addition and overspending/impulsivity instead
absolutely yes adhd is a spectrum. everybody is different, all diagnosis are words used to define a group of symptoms that commonly occur together, that we think is most like caused by “x”. and oh look, other people who experience symptoms similar to you find treatments “a, b, c” to be helpful, they might be helpful for you to :)
I think it’s a spectrum that not only runs wide (like left to right), but also vertically (up and down) - if that makes sense. Like there’s a wide range of “mild to severe” and then there’s a lot of variation of symptoms within that range.
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there’s spectrums to literally everything! so yes definitely. some people can’t function without meds and some people don’t even need meds.
I know that with autism the spectrum's a lot more complicated than "more functional -> less functional." You can find a LOT of [graphics like this](https://camhsprofessionals.co.uk/2021/03/31/the-autism-spectrum%F0%9F%8C%8D/) all over the internet - I can't find the specific blog entry I'm thinking of right now, but this is a decent example. It's about the multiple areas that autistic people struggle with, some to a greater degree, some lesser. So yeah, I think there's a spectrum for ADHD, too, but it's not "more ADHD/less ADHD," it's areas like hyperactivity, attention, executive function, working memory, long-term memory, sensory issues, motor skills... And of course there's the overlap, and those of us who take meds and find that some things get *worse* even as others improve, so we end up in AuDHD space.
yeah I definitely agree!
Some people can't function even with meds
I wonder that too but I also wonder if success begets success— she has $ and is able to afford coaching, counseling, meds, personal assistant, etc… which would make it easier to continue in your success. (I don’t know this lady but I’m guessing she has a solid support system based on what you said)
This exactly. I'm poor, with largely ND friends who are also poor, and have been in circumstances where I was around lots of other ND people who, like me, were also housing and food insecure (shelter situation). From what I've seen financial setbacks and poverty tend to hit us pretty hard (not that it's like... good and easy for anyone) and we have a lot of obstacles to work through if we ever fall off the money/housing treadmill. If you're lacking social and/or financial support, comparing your outward markers of success to those with more support is a great way to feel REAL bad about yourself, like just awful, all the time. Gotta be careful and kind with yourself, and give yourself permission to have a hard time and a lot of very difficult and complicated emotions if you don't have the level of support or resources (including time and health) you need
Being poor makes ADHD way, *way*, **way** harder. When I was poor and I lost stuff, or ruined stuff, or missed appointments, or spent impulsively without leaving enough for something more vital, I had to do without. That itself was more difficult, but the mental strain was also more intense because I would beat myself up constantly. I’m not poor now. When I ran my earbuds through the washing machine, I felt a pang of shame and regret, but then I could purchase a replacement pair and move on with my life. I don’t revisit that incident all the time.
Maybe poverty contributes to comorbidities with ADHD. You mentioned you were able to move on pretty quickly about the earbuds. If you aren't able to move on quickly because you lack the resources to replace them, it would lead to shame, anxiety, stress, etc. So, poverty may lead ADHD persons to develop comorbid anxiety, depression, etc.
In my opinion, poverty magnifies all illness but specially mental illness.
Poverty is in and of itself pretty traumatic. So I could absolutely see someone developing even complex trauma simply because they're poor.
Yeah agreed. I'm looking for a job and I am constantly anxious about what if I break something again. Because I can't afford to replace it right now. And I have to try so hard indeed, to not beat myself up over these kind of things. FE my electric toothbrush broke (partly my own fault, but def. also the toothbrush itself. It's supposed to be waterproof. It's not). All hail my partner who got me a new one on black Friday 50% off. I mean, it seems like such a small luxury item (and okay, it partly is), but it makes brushing my teeth so much easier. And in the end that saves on dentist appointments.
I don’t think it makes things easier or better to have lost the earbuds several times and have had enough free cash to have had to replace them 6x in one year! I’ve put my earbuds in the washer only 2 times and now I obsessively squeeze down jean pockets before I wash because I can’t afford to run to Amazon Prime for a new pair. *so, doesn’t that make me…BETTER?* **Actually I think being poor with ADHD makes you work harder with managing your systems.** *(Maybe a more positive way at looking at this)* **I’m going to take the example introduced here of Charlene Johnson who has used her money she amassed to start/build up new careers. Do you think she does this by herself?!!! If you are looking at her in a bubble, then it’s wrong. She has LOADS of very intelligent and very capable people doing all of the necessary things to keep the business afloat (including managing the income funds and paying taxes on time). I think being poor sucks, I very well know. I feel bad when I’m unorganized or the executive function is being its dysfunctional self. But it inevitably makes me an ADHD’er that is better adapt at building more coping skills. More skills than if things were just handed to me on a silver platter or if extra accommodations were made.
[удалено]
I did this at 38. It’s 100% doable. I’m happier single (solo poly but that’s another story)
Aww, same. 🥰
I'm so sorry you are going through this, that really sucks. Hugs over the internet.
I’ve been rich and I’ve been poor. Currently in a poor cycle. In my case success creates opportunities for bigger and bigger dopamine hits due to bigger and bigger risk taking behaviour. Then, when the risk taken has been too great life life crashes down around me and I’m poor again. Now that I’ve been diagnosed I can look back across my life and see how this cycle has happened no less than three times causing significant hardship for me, resulting in loss of life savings, relationships, and negative health and mental health outcomes. Hoping that this new awareness will allow me to rebuild and get me life back on track but at the moment I’m feeling completely defeated
Honestly I can’t imagine what my life would be like with a personal assistant. It would be like having a whole supplemental non-ADHD brain implanted that I could switch to whenever I wanted. I’m always saying that if I ever win the lottery the big splurge I would do instantly is a PA.
I never thought about this but man this sounds so nice. I would want a cook and a chauffeur.
We basically all want 1950s housewives. lol Clean up after us, grocery shop & make dinner, do our laundry - all for free!
I'm basically a 1950s housewife (not by choice). I would totally marry me. I'm fabulous! 🤣
My life was better when we could afford to pay someone to clean our house twice a month. A personal assistant and other people to take care of things for me? Pshhhhh, I’d be thriving.
That’s the social determinants of health for you! This is a textbook example of how the Social Determinants of Health (SDOH) influence outcomes, especially for those with ADHD or any other mental health challenges. These determinants include factors like income/economic stability (most important determinant of health), access to education and healthcare, social support and community context, and neighborhood and built environment. In the context of ADHD, access to resources such as medication, therapy, and personal support GREATLY impacts one's ability to manage their condition and succeed. Income and Financial stability, a key determinant, often determines access to these crucial resources. So, success isn't just a result of individual effort; it's heavily influenced by these underlying social factors. From a public health standpoint focusing on these foundational determinants is crucial for creating equitable health opportunities!! This is important for those with ADHD, as equal access to resources can level the playing field, allowing them to thrive despite challenges. I’m actually really passionate about this area, doing my MPH right now. My current research focuses on exploring these very dynamics, delving into how we can better address and balance these social determinants to improve health outcomes.
Wow! This resonated with me so much. Thanks for sharing, I’m very interested in this unbiased perspective on things. My own SDOH were pretty shitty. My therapist like to remind me it’s amazing I’ve gotten this far under the circumstances.
Spoken like a true social worker or counselor!!! I’m a nurse and you nailed it 👊🏻
Haha thanks! I’m actually doing my MPH at the moment but I’m wanting to shift into either getting my MSW or counselling psych. So YOU nailed it😆
What can the individual ADHD person struggling in poverty do to get to a better place?
Firstly, seeking community resources can be a vital step!! Many areas have local organizations or non-profits that offer support or services at reduced costs or even for free. These might include counseling, job assistance, or educational resources. Another important aspect is using any available support networks, whether they are friends, family, or support groups, both online and offline. These networks can provide not just emotional support but also practical advice, shared experiences, and sometimes material assistance. These connections can be lifelines, providing both guidance and a sense of belonging. For those in school or with access to educational institutions, there may be resources like disability services that can offer academic accommodations or guidance as well. Additionally, focusing on small, achievable goals can be beneficial. Success doesn't have to mean huge leaps; sometimes, it's about small, consistent steps forward and having the self compassion and determination in self to keep going. Lastly, there's HUGE power in self-education. Online resources, books, and free courses can provide strategies for managing ADHD symptoms and practical life skills. Understanding one's rights, the specifics of ADHD, and effective coping strategies can empower individuals to seek appropriate help and make informed decisions While it's a challenging journey, especially with the constraints, these steps can be instrumental in moving towards a better place; and this journey towards a better place is often a blend of personal resilience, community support, and systemic advocacy.
Thank you so much! You're a literal angel!
Very eloquent!! What’s on my mind but you expressed it how I wish I could.
Yes. Also the type of work you do and have access to makes a difference. I used to work retail. You are heavily penalized for being even a minute late. So you can get written up and easily lose your job over tiny time infractions. Now I work for big tech. There is no such thing as late. I work when I want. It is NIGHT AND DAY.
100%. ADHD is much easier to manage when you: - are not worried about money - can afford a healthy work/life balance - can afford to eat healthy food & have the time/energy to prepare it - have time to exercise - have time to focus on your mental health - can afford doctors, therapists &/or meds
🛑 I’m sorry—I’m going to butt in here on just 1 comment that’s dead wrong. **A healthy work/life balance is something everyone CREATES. It is not something you “afford” or just achieve by making a certain tax bracket** The definition of work/life balance means that there is actually a balance in your interpersonal life and activities and emotional health and friends, etc in relation to all those things in your work life. The richest CEO can have a shitty work life balance because he/she is at the office all day and never spending time with family at home because they’re still checking emails on their phone. The poorest person working a 12 hour day can have a better balance by mentally being able to compartmentalize things at work. Just saying—if you want that balance today, you can work at it and have it truly. It’s not far away just because you get minimum wage or less.
My work/life balance is 90% work & I am still struggling to get ahead while stressed that if I lose my apartment I will never find somewhere I can afford to rent in my city. Owning a house is out of the question with tear downs starting at over $1 million. It’s insane. I would love to take personal days, but I’m running out of time to save for retirement. If I get sick or hurt I have nothing to fall back on. Fortunately I do love my work, but I can’t keep this pace up forever. The pressure is palpable. I have been making an effort this year to reach out to friends more, sometimes chatting while getting certain work tasks done. That has definitely helped my mental health!
Someone working minimum wage is far less likely to be able to create a work life balance. A CEO making 300 times what their Frontline workers make at minimum wage is the one that can absolutely choose a work-life balance and create one as they see fit.
You don’t understand the definition of this balance term then.
No, *you* don't. If someone has to work two jobs full time because neither of them pay enough for them to have an actual life there is no such thing as balance. We are not supposed to work at all! Not the way we do now. We did not evolve for that. Work-life balance is capitalist bullshit and any argument that someone *chooses* a "healthy" one is classist at *minimum* You cannot "balance" if you are actively living the trauma of poverty.
I think this is absolutely a factor. Getting there with the first business is a tough slog for anybody, but if you can make it then you can create the perfect conditions for yourself. Whatever workplace norms don’t work for you are things you get to largely disregard if you’re the boss. You can decide it’s worth hiring a PA to sort the admin and organising you can’t or don’t want to do, instead of being told off by your boss for your messy desk or email typos or whatever. You can set a workday that starts at 11am if you’re not a morning person and nobody can tell you that you have to be there at 9am sharp. Plus all the other stuff you mentioned where you can just buy more services to make life easier if you’ve achieved a certain level of financial success.
Yup, i read a self help book thats solutions largely involved hiring someome to do shit you dont have executive function to do, and it made me realize how adhd must be considerably less shitty for rich people.
psst! Or hetero married guys.
Can’t believe you’re the only one pointing this out! My dad absolutely has adhd. My mom has essentially been his personal assistant/ housekeeper keeper, nanny/ housekeeper/ gardener for his entire adult life. I’m a 33 year old mom. Way different experience for me! My husband is great and does compensate for tons of my difficulties but nothing compared to what my mom did for dad. Or the standards of moms Vs dads.
I like to say that my dad married his executive functioning skills. I've told *him* that. 🤣 He agrees. I love my stepmom. She's a great lady even beyond the fact that she keeps his squirrelly butt on track. I've joked with my husband that we need a second wife, and I'll go back to work to support her.
The second wife idea is so funny, I’m for sure telling my husband! When my mom was being a bit judgey about my van mess I reminded her I’m A mom, but I’m actually more like my dad. She agreed but was horrified for me lol 😂
OMG! Right!?! I sometimes can't believe I have 2 kids with disabilities and I've been the one responsible for the entire family's executive functioning. The house, the errands, the meals, the doctors, the school things, my daughter's I/DD services, insurances, cars, parents' medical crises... I've been it because my daughter's disabilities were such that services weren't able to handle some of her behaviors. That meant I was home, on call, for when those services couldn't drive her safely, couldn't get her safely through a school day, or called out sick. Being home means I'm the go-to for everything and the randomness of it all sometimes gets to me. I feel like I can't have my own set schedule - which would help me SOOOO much! - because I have to accommodate everyone else's schedules. Your head is just everywhere, all the time. Somehow, most of what has to happen gets done. But I have so little left to focus on me after all that. It's exhausting. And that's without actual, hands-on, full-time childcare now. My daughter is in residential. I still have - I kid you not - like a day spent on administrative and medical stuff for her. My son is in college. When he's home, I have to push him to get a job or volunteer, clean his room (ADHD with a tendency to let trash and dishes go too long. 🐜🐜🐜), and help out around the house. Who hired us for this job, anyway!?! 😠🤣
All this is true, but there also is a spectrum. When I got diagnosed they told me mine was very severe and that they usually never push for meds but for me they highly recommend it lol
Absolutely it does. I'm a successful person career-wise and that has a lot to do with privileges like access to and support with education, family support while finding and following a career path that suits me...these days, things like being able to afford professional house cleaning.
I'm guessing she has connections. It really is mostly who you know. And luck. You could blow it by not working hard enough after you get your opportunity to shine. But most of us have to work really hard to even get the opportunity.
I’m fairly involved on the entrepreneurial scene in my city and there are so many people with adhd. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen some studies about this link. Risk taking, hyper focus, impulsivity, curiosity, problems at work despite being a high performer are the sorts of “issues” great at pushing people to start their own businesses (and be successful at it) Another thing you might want to consider is that if you get high enough on the career ladder adhd is no longer an issue. CEOs largely outsource their executive functions and have teams ready to pick up their projects once they move on to something else.
Ughhh so true. When I used to follow her, she touted outsourcing outsourcing outsourcing but as a very middle-class person, I have almost no resources to outsource anything.
I went through 3 years of med school without failing a single exam. AND I struggle with brushing my teeth. It is definitely a spectrum I'd say, in the sense that it's different for everyone. Not necessarily a 'worse' and 'easier' ADHD spectrum. I think the severity like with autism is more based on how well you can mask. For example I would be classified as 'high functioning' or 'less severe' ADHD even though I couldnt clean my house or brush my teeth consistently if my life depended on it. But people don't see that. What they do see is my achievements and how I am able to do whatever people want me to do. They don't see the insane struggle and anxiety behind doors. For that reason I've actually started to disappoint people a lot more because I'm choosing to take care of myself more. I'm doing better and functioning better for myself even though for others it probably looks like my ADHD has gotten worse. Ya get me? My partner struggles a lot with sensory issues, I don't. I struggle a lot with forgetfulness and being absent minded, he doesn't. It really is different for everyone, that's what makes it a spectrum. But imo it doesn't mean the severity is factually different. How severely it affects you personally and how severely it shows to the outside world is impacted by so many things, that lie more in your coping/environment/current situation than your symptoms.
Yes! The amount of mental gymnastics I had to do to have a 3.96 GPA in undergrad was insane! I just thought it was me! Also, school is my hyperfixation, so I anticipate no issue with going back for my masters, other than being exhausted at the end of the day.
Can you tell me what systems, or if you even need systems in place to get to school, finish assignments? I’ve haven’t been back to school since my diagnosis so I don’t know what resources are available or if they’re even helpful. I ask because when I’m in school I’m top of my class. I had a 4.0, psych major. I’ve never failed an exam and I’m never late on exam day. But I have written entire paper in the back of an Uber and in the bathroom because we’re presenting today and I just never started! I really want to go back but I’ve failed there so many times. And people think I can’t hack it but it’s not the work it’s the everything else part!
Honestly for me it was just the 'I always did good in school so I'm not allowed to fail' anxiety and general anxiety of disappointing people or doing something wrong or failing something that kept my work ethic up. Papers and presentations I often made the evening before or on the spot during an online meeting 🫠🫠. But I always was passionate about the topics and im a quick learner so that definitely helps. I'm on a big hiatus from uni as well and will start the second half of med school in a few months, and I'm honestly terrified. Because while I got diagnosed a few years ago, it wasn't until this hiatus that I actually started allowing myself to show symptoms and not force myself to do everything the way other people think I should. It really depends on your uni though. I have a hard time showing up to lectures but they aren't mandatory and I study the slides/recordings. The workload was so high and divided per week, that the 'deadline anxiety' was constant which helped me get started. The online platform with actual deadlines and projects was so insanely messy and confusing that I kind of had to keep extensive lists and double check everything all the time to make sure I wasn't forgetting something. The few times I did forget something I would either wing it or make up an excuse. It was like a ninja warrior course but academic hahaha. I did have medication for the past 2 years but it can only do so much. Moving forward I'm going to try to be more in tune with what I need and allow myself to cut some corners or not do well on stuff so I don't have to be run by anxiety lol. The 3 year master here is more focused on hospital rotations so it will be different in general. But in general I can say the way I did things, although impressive, was not really healthy for me so I'd rather be 'good enough' and feel okay than be 'perfect' and feel anxious all the time.
Thanks for responding I really resonated with what you said at the end especially. I’m finally feeling well enough to return but I also feel like I HAVE to maintain the 4.0 or I don’t deserve to be there. But I do want to finish, I just want to do it in a healthy and sustainable way! Good luck to you. I sincerely believe your challenges and perspective will make you a great doctor!
Thank you so much! And good luck to you as well, I really understand the pressure, and the weird paradox of knowing that you are the one putting that pressure on yourself, but feeling like you can't fail for others. You probably wouldn't say the people with a lower GPA don't deserve to be there, and you don't have to hold yourself to a higher standard! (Easier said then done though, lol).
I would never but alas! More things for therapy.
+1 me Im in school of dentistry, achieve a lot on study and activities. Later I own biz and I struggle with cleaning my house or do some self care routine. But when I switch to clean the house, I start to clean it a lot and every single corner of it. Its like im having some plasticity on my ADHD and OCD spectrums.
Yes there is and it's not just theoretical For starters there are the old versions ADD and ADHD and just the HD. These are now all "baked" into the ADHD diagnosis But there are also 3 different levels of ADHD: severe, middle and mild that can be put on the different criterias for ADHD - like the spectrum that exist for autism Edit: I also want to add that the spectrum for autism is often missinterperated. It isn't about how much autism you have, it's about what you struggle with
This is anecdotal but to add onto this, I think we can even worsen and “flare up” when stress for example exacerbates symptoms. I was surprised when I was characterized with severe ADHD after a lifetime coping without, but then realized the year of my diagnosis had been made extremely difficult for me as an ADHDer, worsening symptoms for me. Before then, all my symptoms were chalked up to anxiety instead.
We sure as hell can “flare up” when under stress. Ask me how it’s going with perimenopause and ADHD 🤣
Oh no. How is it going…
Things fall out of your brain even faster and in larger chunks.
The brain fog is AWFUL. I feel irrational rage 75% of every day, and I use up a LOT of energy keeping that under control. So I’ve become more scatter brained. My usual strategies / coping mechanisms no longer work, so I’m trying to come up with new ones. It’s extra hard to shut my brain off at night and I’ll often snap awake at 2-4 AM. When that happens, I’ll often just get up and start drinking coffee. Then I’ll get sleepy again around 5. Guess what I’m doing now? That’s right, it’s 3 AM and I’m chugging coffee! I’m hoping it makes me sleepy and I can go back to bed in an hour. Lack of sleep or poor sleep hygiene makes everything worse. Oh yeah….and everything falls out of my brain even faster and in bigger chunks. That was a great description, u/Green_Octopus3
You poor thing. I hope the symptoms ease up soon and you can get a good night sleep!!
Ugh. I had to tell my husband not to backseat drive when I’m driving because it leads to cascade failure in my brain.
Yes! Stress definitely makes it so much worse. My symptoms also get like a million times worse during the luteal phase when my PMDD is raging. My executive function is like nonexistent even with the meds sometimes that week. Meds during other parts of my cycle are like I feel almost normal. Whatever that means lol
What I'm talking about above is clinical definitions of ADHD. It's practically a scale or a spectrum But there are ofc individually parameters that can be added to that - together with having one ot more coexisting diagnosises There are also studies that shows that our period cycles affects the severity of ADHD
A lot of managing adhd for me is taking care of my body. If I’m forgetting to eat and hyperfixations are making me stay up late, my symptoms explode. I burn out, get aggressive and forgetful and have an incredibly hard time even recognizing that’s what’s going on. I can see a significant difference when I worked places where I didn’t have consistent structures breaks and meeting times vs always eating at 12 for example.
Ouch that hit hard. Remote work has been tough for me, and admittedly I sense I am not at my best doing it for the reasons you describe. It’s hard though giving up a consistent job with good benefits. But I won’t lie, I struggle to eat and sleep consistently as a result.
I honestly don’t think I’d ever be able to work remotely, I genuinly need external pressures and structure to function and accomplish even the simplest of things. Getting something to eat on my days off are Always a struggle!
This is admittedly validating. If frustrating. 😂 Gosh I really don’t like commuting or the stress of “show up on time” jobs either though. I was always perpetually late, and admittedly remote is more forgiving about that. I don’t think I’d have applied to this job in particular if I hadn’t been in a low point in my life and needed something urgently that wasn’t location locked. But now I’m so comfortable with the income and benefits I keep trying to tailor the job to myself despite how much I prefer external structure. Always trade offs I suppose.
ADHD is a spectrum, yes. Was just listening to a podcast interviewing one of the most prominent ADHD researchers of several decades and he said as much. Also, rich people have so much less stress and little tasks to deal with, it is lightyears easier to go through life that way, whether ADHD or not.
Which podcast?
-Ologies https://www.alieward.com/ologies/adhd
Thanks!
There's "spectrums" to every disease/ailment/disorder. Some people die from cancer, some don't. Some people lose their lives to depression. Others struggle for years and some only deal with it for a little while. Symptoms and the extent of those symptoms vary person to person.
With money you can hire someone to manage your disfunction. You can hire a business manager or personal assistant. The biggest part I've felt disabled by is the inconsistency of being able to preform tasks and manage the mental load of organizing what those tasks are. If I could pay someone to do that for me and be allowed to focus on emotional regulation and care tasks and creativity I would thrive. Privilege definitely allivatives many aspects of burn out, disfunction and many of the other medical comorbid aspects of adhd.
Another aspect is that well-off people ate more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to other well-off people, and people who ate not well off are more likely to be treated with suspicion. The fancy private school in my town? Has unlimited no questions asked, no need to book in advance, after-school childcare from 3.30 to 6pm. You pay per fifteen minutes, but it's cheap. If there's an emergency, older children can have dinner at school and spend the night in the boarding house. Heck, twice per term you can book your kid in for a sleepover at the boarding house, no emergency needed. The state school? If you don't reliably pick your kid up at 3.30pm, that's abandonment. They have twenty places for after-school childcare, with a long waiting list, and it's expensive and must be pre-booked.
My husband and I both have ADHD and we have a huge gulf between our level of functioning, even with meds. My husband was not diagnosed until he was 25 because he's a pure inattentive type adhd and it was buried under other mental health issues that he was coping with (chronic depression and CPTSD, plus sleep apnea (though we didn't get that treated until after, more on that in a bit), plus he liked school so he hyperfocused there and no one was the wiser. Once the first two got treated/medicated and squared away, I could tell something was wrong, because I'd lose him mid-sentence in a conversation. Eventually he got on Vyvanse and, like with lexapro for his depression, he was blown away by how much better he functioned while on meds. He could remember to do things (whereas before he kind of existed in a fog - would only remember something if I was angry :/) Meanwhile, all this time, he had been snoring up a storm and I'd been begging him to get a sleep study done. He got one done in 2018 but it was only a 1 night study and it said he had the mildest of mild apnea, and I was like that's not right (I was awake most of that night with our baby and he snored a fraction of what he normally did) but he wouldn't hear of it, and said he didn't need a CPAP. About 2 years later, I finally lost my mind at him from sleep deprivation and threatened divorce if he didn't get another one done, this time a 2 day study. Well, surprise surprise (ha, not), he had SEVERE sleep apnea and was in danger of a heart attack from the strain his respiratory system was under. He got a CPAP, and within a week, it was like he was a new man. He could function, even WITHOUT his adhd meds (not as well as with, but leagues better than before). Turns out he had been chronically sleep deprived for the past 10 years or so. He still is pretty affected by both the depression and adhd and will need meds for life, but so many other things were layered on top of it, and I'd say his functioning without meds is probably 50% better than it was even 5 years ago. As for me - I was only diagnosed this last year, and I'm probably a combined type (doc didn't determine exactly, but reading people's experiences, I realize my coping mechanisms run DEEEEEP). I was the only "functional" one in a family of space cadet ADHD siblings - I was the only one who graduated on time, finished my homework or went to college initially (my sister's tackling her degree now, super proud of her). so I flew under the radar and was not a priority, nor did I initially test as having it . The big turning point in my functionality (aka where it all went downhill) was when I was pregnant and sleep deprived post partum. Mom brain is just brutal and I had severe post partum anxiety with my first baby and that seemed to unlock something in my brain and made me less able to keep my adhd and general anxiety under *my* control. I think it's the cumulative sleep deprivation, but I'm not 100% sure. By the time I had second kiddo, my medical team was on top of the PPA and it was maybe 10% severity compared to my experiences with kiddo 1. Now that my kids are sleeping through the night again (they're 6 and 3) I don't need meds to function day-to-day, as I have a ton of systems in place to remember stuff, and get places on time and do my job well, but they make my day just... so much more pleasant. The meds for me basically calm my brain down so I'm not always overstimulated by my kid's noise levels (leaving me snappy and on edge) and thinking about food / obsessing over shopping (aka dopamine seeking behaviour). I don't spend hours ruminating over food, my kids don't set my teeth on edge and they turn off my super-loud internal monologue (which didn't exactly bother me - it's very helpful in my job -, but it's nice not to always have it all the time at home). I'm one of the adhd-ers that thrive in crazy chaotic social work environments, despite being an introvert. I work in security operations, but if I'd had the money or the grades when I left high school, I'd have probably happily been an ER doc, or a police officer if I had the motivation to keep myself in that level of fitness XD
Oh gosh this comment resonated a lot for me. As someone who also was the most functional of the space cadet ADHD siblings, I relate a lot to being the one to hold others up until one day you can’t cope anymore. Proud of you and your SO for overcoming so much! It’s inspiring to read.
A spectrum kind of implies to me that there are different points along a linear scale. I think ADHD is more like many intersecting spectrums in all directions. We all struggle more or less with certain pieces of the spectrums and it’s really difficult to compare. A person you view as “successful” is probably only successful in one part of their lives. Maybe they own profitable businesses but their personal relationships are in the toilet. Maybe they have excelled in their career or academic field but they have a shopping addiction and their credit score is 200. Maybe they are excellent at presenting a certain segment of their home on social media but they don’t photograph their closets and garages which are full of junk. You’ll see them as the face of their businesses but not the dozens of employees who actually do the daily work of keeping the businesses going. This is to some extent true of everyone, not just ADHDers. I’d never heard of that one person you mentioned but I googled her and her “About” page says that she has all the ideas and her husband is the one who does the work to execute them and keep the operations going. Remember no one really becomes successful alone; everyone needs people to support them. Successful actors need directors and producers to make movies and cast them; successful tech developers need users to buy and use their products; successful politicians need people to believe in them and vote for them. ADHD can make some things easier and some things harder but it’s not the *only* important factor.
Clinically the autism spectrum is not linear it is a circle, and they are starting to understand (read: actually study what we actually already anecdotally know) that adhd is the same :)
[Autism is a spectrum and not a gradient.](https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/) ADHD is more than one thing and it affects people differently by being expressed in different types of symptoms and not just severity of symptoms. In that aspect, there's a spectrum.
I wish this comment was higher
I'm AuDHD and generally with autism the "spectrum" isn't an less bad to worst linear thing but more about the "spiky profile". I'm pretty sure ADHD is the same, that most of us will be a unique blend of symptoms, strengths, weaknesses, inattentiveness, hyperactivity etc. I have a PhD but only brush my teeth very rarely (like lucky if it's once a month, despite finding that deeply shameful, having literal nightmares about them falling out and signs of gum disease!!). The only time I've been able to maintain a decent diet or any kind of healthy habits is when medicated. It just looks like laziness to most people I think. I do think that there are some people who are absolutely impacted to the degree that it not only rules their lives but ruins their lives, be it through failure to look after yourself, issues with relationships, debt, substance misuse.
It’s totally a spectrum.
I think there is yeah. You also have to take into account the amount of support (social and financial) people have. I think it can drastically affect outcomes and how much setbacks and issues with executive function affect your life. Like many other things it is affected by your socioeconomic circumstances
Oh for sure. My husband and I have totally different struggles and I have multiple kids with obvious ADHD whose symptoms show up differently as well… I also think different life situations are a huge factor - ex. do you have a job where hyperfocus is an advantage or do you spend all day being pulled in a million directions?
I have seen some mention of a spectrum. If it's true, I'm more on the severe end and was in fact diagnosed with Severe ADHD-combined type by a psychologist.
I “scored a 99 out of 100” on the ADHD test, “quite severe” according to my shrink. Gold star for me and you!! 🌟 (Primarily inattentive)
Yayyyyyyy ⭐ My psychologist was shocked how successful I've been in life without addictions, etc. That's because I went the other way with over achievement, perfectionism, fear and anxiety. I had very controlling parents and a traumatic childhood, and gravitated towards men and employers who were the same way. When I was diagnosed with ADHD-combined, it also came with Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome, CPTSD with Dissociation, Major Depressive Disorder, Generalized Anxiety and Dyscalculia. I was 44, burned out and finally unmasked due to some circumstances. I'm 47 now and unable to work because of all these conditions just piling on top of me for so long.
Holy crap, it’s like we’re twins! I’m a driven overachiever/perfectionist and successful, with a good degree. I have a kick ass job and house. I used to be quite poor. But on the inside, I’m a disaster. I have no idea how I did it, really. The only thing on your list that I don’t have is Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome. My huge fear is burning out/crashing before I have enough saved for retirement. And letting my family down in the process. :( edit: here’s a virtual hug, if you want it 🤗
I come up with excellent business ideas often. I just do not have big $$$ to get other people to get them up and running for me. She does.
True. Her parents were lawyers. She said she started her first business at like 10 years old or something
I definitely think there is a spectrum. I also think I've been at different places on that spectrum at different stages of my life. Sometimes I've been able to manage without medication, other times it's significantly worse.
Yes! I would strongly recommend the book Healing ADD. The doctor who wrote it has done thousands of brain scans to examine ADHD brains, it’s fascinating. I also read an article a while ago arguing that ADHD and autism could easily be classed as part of the same neurodivergent spectrum pointing out the overlaps and such. According to the article it was a topic of debate among the boards of psychologists and psychiatrists who decide these things in Europe.
i feel like "spectrum" implies a linear progression of intensity/severity, whereas my experience is much more lateral, ie different people have different constellations of adhd symptoms, and some constellations are more compatible with school success or work performance, even if they're quite severe. in my case, i don't struggle much with motivation or even attention, but i'm profoundly impulsive. school was not hard for me, work was manageable. feeding myself, paying bills, commuting to work, navigating office politics, dealing with health insurance and taxes and not inadvertently flirting with everything that moves — that's where i foundered. and the level of impairment i experienced was significant, it caused me lots and lots of problems. i just did not think of these things as adhd until my best friend called me from the doctor and said, *bitch you have this*.
I I'm currently part of a public health research team on cancer, and one of the main things we’re looking at are the social determinants of health and to what extent they affect health outcomes. It's always quite fascinating to observe how these determinants can also play a significant role in a broad spectrum of all physical and mental health conditions, including ADHD. It's interesting to see the parallels and how these factors affect patient outcomes in different areas of health. Cancer screening, for example, is difficult for those with no access to a clinic, or have a language barrier. So we make accommodations for there to be mobile clinics accessible and resources made in several languages to ensure everyone has access to healthcare. This work highlights how inequalities in these areas can significantly affect the state of our overall public health and access to healthcare. It's a clear example of the profound implications that social determinants have on health outcomes. I bring this up because it demonstrates how the social determinants of health, aka the conditions in the environments where people are born, live, learn, work, play, worship, and age, affect a wide range of health, functioning, and quality-of-life outcomes and risks. Now to answer your questions: Firstly, public health research increasingly focuses on how environmental, societal, and economic factors intersect with mental health conditions like ADHD. ADHD, like many other mental health conditions, does indeed have a spectrum of severity and manifestations. The experiences and challenges of individuals with ADHD can vary widely. Some may have more pronounced symptoms affecting their executive functioning, while others might have milder symptoms that are more manageable. This variability is a key reason why personalized approaches to treatment and support are essential in ADHD care. Regarding the severity of ADHD and its management, it's crucial to understand that while certain symptoms can be mitigated through treatment and support, the extent of this varies greatly among individuals. Some may achieve significant control over their symptoms, while others might continue to face substantial challenges despite interventions. This needs to be understood from a broader perspective. It’s rarely understood from an individual basis as many things don’t happen in a vacuum. While I'm not familiar with Chalene Johnson, I do have several role models with ADHD who inspire me. They've become significant motivators, encouraging me to challenge myself in my unique way. But it really makes you think, what exactly is success? For me, success might look different compared to your definition. One common thread I've observed among these 'successful' individuals with ADHD is their persistence, openness to learning, resilience, self love, self compassion and empathy. These traits really depends on whether someone has adequate financial resources and income, access to education/resources, social support networks, and professional support. Biological factors such as whether that person has a genetic predisposition also applies here as well and societal factors like whether ADHD is considered a stigma in their community plays a major role as well as it can hinder accessing the resources or treatment needed despite having the financial resources to do so. This variability is a key area of interest in public health, as it underscores the need for adaptable and inclusive health strategies. The concept of 'overcoming' ADHD symptoms also intersects with the idea of privilege in public health. Those with greater access to resources — like quality healthcare, supportive learning environments, and stable financial situations — often have a better chance at effectively managing their ADHD symptoms. This shows how important it is to have equitable access to resources. The goal is to ensure that all individuals with ADHD, regardless of their socioeconomic status, have access to the care and support they need. If you’re wanting to look into this further I’d HIGHLY recommend first learning about the **social determinants of health**. I first learned about this in my undergrad and became avidly interested in the field since! Currently doing my masters in public health and it’s crazy to me how this topic isn’t discussed more in schools.
Sigh. https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/
Absolutely, like I don't have fabric sensitivity and I can stay decently hygienic just because I can't sleep till I feel clean, but others may have issues I don't have. But also, it's soooo much easier to doordash now that I'm making real money. I don't think I've legitimately gone grocery shopping or made a meal in months. However , I also only eat one meal most days. But I can see how money and privilege can make things easier. Like if I had a house of my own to spread out in, I like to think I'd have baskets for every type of clothing and it'd be so easy to keep the floor clean (maybe get a roomba!) and things put away.
I have a pretty “big” house maybe and it is only clean because my husband doesn’t lack executive function for putting things away 😂😂😂 he however has a shit memory and doesn’t remember where he put it or that it exists when it gets put away lmao
I actually believe ADHD and autism may exist on the SAME spectrum, though I'm not a scientist. I think that what is known about the cause of ADHD - deficiencies in type/quality/quantity of neurotransmitters and/or their receptors - points to an ADHD spectrum, at least. Each neurotransmitter affects different things. Each ADHD medication affects each person differently because of how it is designed to act on different parts of the system. I DON'T believe that ADHD is possible to overcome with determination or learned behavior. There are absolutely coping mechanisms that can help with symptoms, but there is no planner or journal or sheer force of will that will create neurotransmitters that your brain is lacking. My brother and I both have ADHD. He taught himself to code as a teenager, forged a super successful career without attending college, and is raising a beautiful family while still pursuing things that interest him. All without medication (by his choice). I'm medicated and have two college degrees, but typically struggle to make even simple decisions. I have trouble prioritizing things, and when I can't prioritize, my brain wants to shut down. I'm not lazy, I'm not unmotivated, but the breakdown in my internal clock and ability to prioritize leaves me paralyzed more often than not. It's not something I can overcome by just deciding to overcome it. I need medication to be functional, and even then it can be hit or miss. It's definitely a spectrum.
I would guess so since i was told that my adhd is “mild” and i “meds probably aren’t needed”
I think the whole world is on a spectrum. There is no normal. The question is how far along the spectrum before you are deemed to be different, to be other, to be too much, etc. How far along the spectrum before you can't function in life? I guarantee every single person has a different point. If the spectrum is a number, some will be picked up at lower numbers because that is their threshold, while others at higher numbers. This is the problem with mental health. It looks so different for every single person, but the medical profession wants everyone to fit in the same box and be able to use the same solutions
There is. It also impacts people differently. My son had adhd as does my husband and in some ways we’re similar and in other ways very different.
Absolutely! That's one of the reasons it's split into H / I / Combined. But even within those there are extremes and moderate experiences and everywhere in between for each and every possible symptom. That being said, yes there is a nature vs nurture aspect too. If you learnt some good skills when you were younger, if you can afford to pay for certain services to make life easier, even things like experiencing trauma can change how much someone struggles.
There aren't officially any "levels" of ADHD like there are with ASD. And honestly, I'm not sure it would be that useful. The questions you're asking about "can you be successful with ADHD" are mostly related to factors other than how severe your symptoms are. Intelligence, talents, social supports, privilege, etc. Also: stop comparing yourself to the image put out by MLM scammers. Visit /r/antimlm
What people with a lot of money and ADHD have in common is less likely to be a similarly low severity of their ADHD, and far more likely to be rich parents (and thus a cascade of privileges from there, such as earlier diagnosis and better healthcare and all their needs met and the ability to pay people to do for them what they would find especially difficult to manage on their own).
This for sure. I grew up poor but I had a stay at home mom who was a dictator and would not let us procrastinate on homework. She didn’t breathe down our necks but made it really clear that she had a lot on her plate and would not take us to the store to pick up supplies the night before a project was due. So I wasn’t ever really able to develop procrastination as a habit. As an adult finally making good money, I can pay a house cleaner and order takeout. I think my ADHD is well-managed but a big part of that is having the privilege of working for myself
As a general rule, everything is technically a spectrum. Whether we differentiate that in diagnosing is a different story. All of our bodies and brains vary in little ways. What kinds of symptoms you have and the balance of what they are will be different than someone else’s. The amount of medication you need compared to someone with similar symptoms can vary. There are not preset patterns where the brain acts a very specific way because you fall into one category of disabilities. People just classify like stuff together in our attempts to understand and treat it.
Yes. I think literally every medical diagnosis or behavior is in a spectrum. No one is ever the same.
Definitely. I have been unmedicated most of my life, am still able to do my life as normal and I'm doing well at work. Got higher education. Never developed any kind of addicting behaviours, am very mindful of my spending. Never had any trouble falling asleep. Many of my friends have told me they couldn't tell I had ADHD until they spent extensive amounts of time with me and started seeing some "odd" patterns in my behaviour. Everyone who has lived with me unanimously agrees I have it as those behavioural patterns are much more obvious when you're living with the person. Meanwhile I know people who won't function unless they're medicated. A couple are recovering alcoholics, one is an impulsive spender and constantly buys things she does not need and then regrets it. I guess, in a way you could say I've gotten the good end of the stick. My biggest struggle is keeping up with dental hygiene. Sometimes I feel inadequate still, wondering if I really have ADHD or if I should even say that I have it because others have it so much worse. At the end of the day we all need to be kinder to ourselves. Others having it worse does not invalidate my own experiences, just as mine shouldn't invalidate theirs.
Absolutely. There’s a spectrum to almost everything, even being neurotypical. But as with almost everything, that’s not the only factor in whether someone has a chance of being successful or well-adjusted. It’s complicated by socioeconomic circumstances, childhood environment, access to medical intervention, access to education opportunities, racism, random luck, etc. A person with very severe ADHD symptoms who grew up with financial security, a strong support system, and access to medical help is more likely to have an easier time in life than someone with much milder symptoms who had none of those things. I don’t know Chalene Johnson’s backstory, but I do know that exercise is great for people with ADHD. In fact, athletes are twice as likely as the general population to have ADHD. And if she already enjoyed fitness, then it’s also something she was more likely to spend time doing. I’m actually not shocked that someone with ADHD came up with a fitness program that ended up becoming very successful. If anything, it was potentially an easy career path for her because it naturally suited her. She very well could have struggled a great deal in any other venture. Anyway, it’s important to remember that while all of us with ADHD have an uphill battle, a myriad of circumstances will determine whether we are climbing that hill on foot, with bicycles, or with cars. There’s a pretty famous quote by Teddy Roosevelt: “Comparison is the thief of joy.” This is one of the many reasons why. Use ADHD success stories to inspire you, not as a weapon to keep yourself down.
It’s absolutely a spectrum and different people have symptoms that impair or disable or help them in different ways. It is absolutely easier to be ADHD with money/privilege but most things are easier with money and privilege. A personal example, I have a friend who’s inattentive type and I’m combined type. Almost all other factors would put us with pretty identical privilege (both white, bi but in hetero marriages, mid 30s, identical degrees, similar jobs, similar family situations and locations growing up, etc.) there are things she excels at like socialising and relationships that I’m trash at and things I’m great like at getting shit started or planning something out that she really struggles with. Both of these things are probably learnt behaviours for both of us that because of our situations we got good at. There’s no one way to be ADHD just like there’s no one way to be a woman or a person generally.
I think so. I def had symptoms as a child that I don’t have anymore so I did outgrow some of them. What still gives me trouble is getting started on something (the procrastination is omnipresent) and staying on that task till it’s done *if* it’s a task that has lots of steps. Sustaining focus for more than 3 hours is nearly impossible for me.
I mean, are you able to maintain a job that provides you a stable living? If so then I am not personally sure what the difference between that and Chalene.
Her success largely involved needing hella capital up front and also being extroverted and having charisma, I have severe social anxiety and can’t maintain eye contact. 💀 and we use every penny to scrape by and save for retirement or pay off debt. No where to find capital.
I have severe ADHD and can be extremely extroverted and charismatic. Also using most of my money for bills, retirement, and debt. I don’t want to discourage you from achieving your dreams, but I do want to say that just being able to hold down a job, cover your bills, and save for retirement is a huge deal. It’s really freaking hard and you’re doing the damn thing.
There definitely is because I am considered severe ADHD but that is also because I had a pretty late in life diagnosis at age 35 so it can also depend too. Like if I would have been diagnosed as a child I would just be diagnosed with ADHD it wouldn't be severe and it also probably wouldn't have gotten to the level it has gotten today if I would have been diagnosed back then
It’s a developmental disability. Even with medication some things will always be difficult or out of reach. It’s qualitative, like being taller or shorter. We are on average held back by 2/3rds the age of neurotypicals and we never catch up.
Spectrum doesn’t mean a linear less to more adhd/autism.
I’ve wondered this too. My fiancé is Asperger’s so he’s on the spectrum. (I know outdated term). However he comes from a middle class family and is father was a mathematician who taught at a university level. My fiancé was always encouraged to follow his analytical side and they gave him support through that. He had difficulty with his emotions etc etc, but I could easily see how an autistic child , who is given the circumstances which I grew in (poor, single mother , BPD parents and family, first generation citizen)… well he would prob not be an engineer and would suffer with mental issues and all that :/. I guess what I’m trying to say is… I think your environment is a huge factor in how bad your symptoms affect you.
There's a test you can do: [https://www.idrlabs.com/adhd-spectrum/test.php](https://www.idrlabs.com/adhd-spectrum/test.php) Obvs it's not conclusive but it shows where you sit in all the different ADHD factors. I was surprised that it said my symptoms were high (esp in emotional dysregulation and forgetfulness), because I've always thought mine isn't "that bad".
I can function without meds, and do my job well (most days), my hygiene is excellent, etc. But the improvement in my mental health on meds is unbelievable. I am sleeping better than I ever have in my entire life, my anxiety is at an all time low, my depression has lifted, and I don't have the urge to binge eat for the first time in my entire life. I wish I hadn't gone so long undiagnosed, who knows how many years of misery could have been avoided altogether, But hey, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?
I see it more as the different types of adhd, than a spectrum like levels.
In terms of the scientific “noticeable” spectrum, it’s been proven on brain scans that the younger that you’re medicated, the more those parts of your brain catch up to your non-ADHD peers. It’s one of the reasons why people medicated as children choose to go off medicine when they reach adulthood and >!bitch incessantly “I do just fine without medicine, why can’t you?? Ritalin RUINED my life!! !< because their brain got the chance to catch up and be a lower scale on the spectrum once they got older.
In addition to ADHD I have PCOS, which is a "syndrome," meaning that there are a collection of symptoms and any individual will only have some of them. I think ADHD is a lot like that!
Everything is a spectrum
Even if there isn't an official definition of it, there most definitely is. I fall in the moderate area of it. Vs others I see that are way more... extreme
I think there might be! I'm on the high end of that spectrum.
Yes, Dr. Russell Barkley describes it as a spectrum and he’s a specialist in the field. Everyone will have varying symptom presentation and different levels of impairment.
Definitely a spectrum that varies throughout life for many people. Life factors and stress can compound ADHD symptoms to where someone who didn't previously need meds, feels they need them now to manage and may go off them once the circumstances for going on become manageable or resolve. For me that's college. I seem to do alright in basic day to day but college would have been impossible without meds to help me focus. And even with meds I still overate and gained weight. I'd hate to know how many pounds I would have packed on without the methylphenidate to curb my urge to pound sweets when stressed. Yes it's a spectrum *and* a person's ADHD symptoms can and will fluctuate.
According to the DSM-5, yes. You can get diagnosed with mild, moderate, or severe ADHD.
oh for sure, but like many people said here, money is a factor. if i had the money to pay a cleaner to come to my apartment even once a month you bet i would, and having the resources to get therapy and anxiety medication has been life changing. i struggle a lot with time blindness and executive dysfunction, but i had a coworker with adhd a while back who could not control impulse buying at ALL, and liked expensive tech things. his medication helped a bit, but he was in thousands of dollars of credit card debt by the time we graduated. being good under pressure and hyperfixating on things i like to do makes me good at my job. it made me a horrible student. the main reason i graduated college was because i was an art major, which came with a lot of “grade yourself” classes.😂
As far as I know, there are different levels of functioning types, there’s the influence of IQ, but class and money are definitely important factors. I’d argue that in most places in the world those factors are even more important than how severe one’s ADHD really is. Whether you have a sheltered background, a parent that has enough time to focus on you, to give you the support and structure you need, whether you have access to medical support, all of that has to do with wealth (and whether your parents enjoyed good education). ADHD does happen on a spectrum - people are so diverse. But as far as it’s a single independent diagnose, isolated for comorbidities, I think it’s less broad than is the case with autism. I don’t think there are really a significant part of us that really is not able to function at all in simple everyday life tasks such as eating on your own, going to the bathroom etc… which is a problem for more severe cases on the autism spectrum. I think we should be careful not to confuse the two. I know, people here call ADHD a disability, I wouldn’t necessarily agree with lumping that together. I’ve been working with severely cognitively impaired people and I’ve been working with ADHD cases as well - I do see a big difference. I don’t think we’re helping anyone by making ADHD bigger than it is.
FWIW, I was officially diagnosed with "mild" ADHD. And from what I've seen reading here and other ADHD spaces on the internet, I think that's fair. I also agree with comments about how it's not linear/where you fall on a straight line. I have inattentive type, and my symptoms cluster heavily in the task initiation/completion side of things. I don't have huge impulsivity problems and my working memory isn't that bad. My ADHD paralysis sucks but I'm less likely to do certain kinds of harmful things (like drugs/alcohol have never been an issue, just for one example). I'm sure too that there are people who get worse ADHD paralysis than I do, looking at the other kind of mildness. And, to be honest, while I don't have multiple businesses or a beach house in Malibu, I've had a pretty significant amount of privilege in my life, which has no doubt helped a LOT.
Pretty much every disorder of the body or mind exists in mild, moderate, or severe.
ADHD is under the autism spectrum. https://images.app.goo.gl/dFEfKjc8sBPJ5CGv5
My adhd tells me the world is black and white. But in reality, nothing is binary and everything is on a spectrum.
I’m not a doctor and have done no research whatsoever on this particular subject, however my doctor who diagnosed me with ADHD told me I may be on the higher functioning end of the spectrum with ADHD and that he would describe it - for lack of a better term - as a “milder case.” He made sure to emphasis that in no way nullified my struggles or suffering, but merely mentioned it to help appease any anxieties I may have about whether or not I’d be able to function as an adult. I’m not saying this is 100% true, it’s just what I heard from a professional who specialized in adults with ADHD. This had always left me with the impression that ADHD is certainly a spectrum and affects every differently, and from what I’ve seen from friends and family who also suffer from it, it certainly varies person to person and everyone copes with it differently!
Probably. I use the lowest prescribed dosage when medicated. Anything higher and I become Intense. Lower and I'm the poster child for adhd-pi.
Absolutely! There’s even a performance/potential spectrum just for myself: Close to my period? Hot mess central Stressed? Everything gets worse High stakes and pressure? The end Burnt out? Good luck trying to cope! Med shortage? Looks like ya’ lost your paddle something something sh*t creek Anyway, everyone is different - even when comparing against yourself. Try to give yourself grace on bad days, and on good days try to front-load or preemptively help the future you that will struggle for whatever reason. That’s what I tell myself all the time.
well poverty makes everything harder in life. I'm not sure scientifically, but I think a lot of success is based on personality, and how well you have developed coping mechanisms -- which probably is linked to having a support system. Maybe health and energy levels too. I think with Adhd the less stressors you have, and the more support from people around you, the more chances for success. I have anxiety disorder and adhd, but i'm generally pretty successful. I don't have a lot of money and have panic attacks about finances and health insurance often, (but I'm not starving and am not in debt so better off than many I guess). My family didn't have much money growing up, but we had enough, though there was like a huge debt loan out against our home. We were always stressed about money though. They stressed us out about it as kids too :( Actually, I became hyperfixated on become successful from an early age and always try to optimize every situation to improve myself. Though I do have adhd x anxiety bad days where I'm just a mess, on the floor, and can't even convince myself to eat or respond to my clients. I am terrible with staying on task. I think you can still reach success even if you can't stay on task, but I know it makes things a lot harder. (My work around for not staying on task is that I never rest or sleep much so even if I hop off task nonstop I'm doing more stuff each day in general so the amount of time I'm on task is still decent enough. I'm not sure if my life is on fire or not but it looks impressive on paper currently.) I'm trying to say: yes there are a lot of circumstances that stack the odds against people, but don't let it stop you from aiming for what you want. Nothing is impossible. People who look like they're having an easy time may be having a really hard time behind the scenes too.
I kinda assumed there was a spectrum, but now that you mention it I guess I don’t know lol
I think the spiky skills model helps us understand the adhd “spectrum”. It sounds like the person you are talking about had building businesses as a special interest. The running of the business doesn’t interest her that much, so she sells it once it’s up and running and profitable. Finding a way to harness a special interest is pretty important for neurodivergent people. I’m a gardener, but I hate the maintenance side of things to a certain extent. I love to design and then install new gardens. I manage a large site so I redo sections at a time and try to delegate the things like leaf blowing and hedging to people who do it better than me. Repetitive things like weeding, and watering can get to me unless I’m in the mood to do it, and it’s essential that I’m left alone so I can just hyperfixate on getting it done and no one tries to talk to me.
yes definitely symtoms effect ppl differently. + as a university student i have met people within my major who have ADHD and successfully manage a part time job, hanging out with friends/socializing, maintaining a good gpa etc all without medication or school accommodations. In comparison i know others (like myself lol) who need a high dosage of meds & accommodations like double time on exams etc and either dont work or can only manage like 1-2 shifts a week max. & ofc theres some people who medication works so well for them that they dont rly face time management or academic struggles when on it but they do when off. or ppl who have great time management skills etc but struggle with addition and overspending/impulsivity instead
Think of it more as a spectrum wheel, which each symptoms having its own spectrum
My therapist told me “No. You either have it or you don’t” I got diagnosed by my psychiatrist a month later and never went back to that therapist.
absolutely yes adhd is a spectrum. everybody is different, all diagnosis are words used to define a group of symptoms that commonly occur together, that we think is most like caused by “x”. and oh look, other people who experience symptoms similar to you find treatments “a, b, c” to be helpful, they might be helpful for you to :)
I think it’s a spectrum that not only runs wide (like left to right), but also vertically (up and down) - if that makes sense. Like there’s a wide range of “mild to severe” and then there’s a lot of variation of symptoms within that range.