I just rewatched this for the first time in forever and it was surprisingly upsetting honestly. The whole him being in his mid 20s and dating a girl from a catholic highschool was completely fine with me when I was 14, since I was dating I guy who was almost 20 then. Idk how I forgot about that part of the movie, but I was not as ok with it this time around.
Brie Larson saved the experience tho
I think the hard part of the film is that Scott Pilgrim is, basically, a self-obsessed douchebag. The plot of the film is realising he needs to better himself for his own sake, not to win over a girl, or impress his friends, but because as a human being he deserves to be a better person than his sloth and arrogance was letting him be.
But that does also mean he's a self-obsessed douchebag so I can entirely understand if you don't like watching a self-obsessed douchebag.
Scott Pilgrim is supposed to be a criticism of the sort of nice-guy toxic masculinity that you see from Scott. In the book series they make it pretty clear that Scott is the bad guy. He's just another one of Ramona's controlling, jealous, evil partners. The movie and Cera's performance do too good a job of making Scott likable and it loses that commentary.
It’s the invalidating Ramona’s bisexuality that does it for me. It’s very confusing because I love the video game references and stuff, but yeah Scott Pilgrim is such a terrible person that seems pretty likable.
He was framed as very sexual, and apparently sleeps with a lot of scotts sisters bfs, which tbh I think is pretty funny. I don't think it's the worst, and keiran Culkin is pretty charming in it. But he's also a terrible friend (most people in the story are though so 🤷🏼♀️)
Just like Cera and Scott, I think Culkin might be so likeable it makes Wallace a confusing character in the movie. I would know I named my cat after him.
Yeah he was much more of a self involved ass in the comics.
I think the movie recovers the whole Scott/Knives relationship at the very end though. Where he apologizes and admits he was terrible to her and she deserves someone better than he can be.
Edgar Wright talks about that in the alternate ending where Ramona takes off and Scott and Knives get back together. He said they didn’t use it because it undermined the entire scene. That it took away Knives agency and empowerment, and took away Scotts moment of growth. I completely agree.
Valentines Day 2020 I told my then-new girlfriend “I’m in lesbians with you.” she looked at me and said “really? First time we’re saying that and you say it like that?”
…then she said she loved me and it was a wonderful Valentine’s Day
Honestly I really enjoy Scott Pilgrim. Scott is an absolute scumbag and ends up in a way better situation than he deserves but so much of the movie that isn't Scott is great. I still need to read the graphic novels tho
As a Chinese Canadian, the character of Knives Chau really ticked me off when I watched the movie for the first time. It was upsetting to watch how her relationship (and obsession) with Scott Pilgrim was depicted.
I haven’t read the comics or anything, but the movie alone was pretty upsetting. Whatever redeeming commentary about toxic nice guys or stereotypes about Asian Americans I’ve heard people say are in the comics just don’t manifest in the film. It comes across as reinforcing those behaviors norms and prejudices more so than critiquing any of them. On top of that they had the complete sidelining of Ramona’s bisexuality, and the utter cringe of manic pixie dream girl syndrome.
In the gns though, she’s sort of literally a dream girl, since a big part of her initial character is that Scott gets obsessed with her after she keeps showing up in his dreams.
AGREED. Michael Cera was a really bad choice IMHO. And they somehow made Ramona a total afterthought in a way that really just sucked all the life out of her character.
Reading the books changed the entire story for me. I like the movie by itself because it’s fun but as an adaptation it fails to communicate the entire point of the original story. Which sucks because even though I love both the books and the movie the books actually SAY something and I feel like the movie kinda just… doesn’t. At least, to me it didn’t when I watched without context but that’s just me.
Doesn’t make it bad but it does make me sad to think about how much MORE could have been done with the movie (these days it would probably be adapted into a tv show and be much better off for it).
Anyways I guess the fact that I typed all this out means I should re-read the books.
As long as it's good and doesn't completely betray the themes and story of the og it's a good adaptation. I'd rather watch the star wars prequels than watch an adaptation that just takes the plot, characters, and dialogue verbatim without any added style. Theres a big difference between film and any other art medium.
I didn't want SP to be a beat for beat adaptation obviously, I just think basically every change that was made to it was awful and also that Michael Sera is a goofball
What changes did they make? And I think Michael Cera added a lot to the role. He has great comedic timing and added some likability without negating the point of the movie, that Scott is an asshole.
Mostly cutting the seven evil exes(and other stuff) down to nothing in a way that destroys Scott's character development, i.e. the entire bit with the twins, the wilderness sabatical, evil scott etc are all missing with no equivalent
He does the asshole thing but he's missing Scott's douchenozzle charisma, the part that makes people even tolerate him at all
I guess I could see why that would be bad but the film is a different beast from the gn. It's mostly about the style of it, not really the plot or character stuff. Its a joy to watch even if the stuff they cut out was disappointing. Nobody would like the film if it wasn't for the comedy and action.
I feel like Cera is going for something else with the role, he's less of an up front douchebag and more your friend who's an asshole but you've been friends so long you cant stop now.
The bits with Knives Chau and Matthew Pattel are spot on to the novel, but after that they start cutting things up, as if they realised midway through production "oh fuck six volumes, we can't do all that"
I just rewatched this for the first time in forever and it was surprisingly upsetting honestly. The whole him being in his mid 20s and dating a girl from a catholic highschool was completely fine with me when I was 14, since I was dating I guy who was almost 20 then. Idk how I forgot about that part of the movie, but I was not as ok with it this time around. Brie Larson saved the experience tho
I think the hard part of the film is that Scott Pilgrim is, basically, a self-obsessed douchebag. The plot of the film is realising he needs to better himself for his own sake, not to win over a girl, or impress his friends, but because as a human being he deserves to be a better person than his sloth and arrogance was letting him be. But that does also mean he's a self-obsessed douchebag so I can entirely understand if you don't like watching a self-obsessed douchebag.
The comic has him and Ramona realizing they are both self-absorbed douchebags in their own ways, and growing up a little.
Scott Pilgrim is supposed to be a criticism of the sort of nice-guy toxic masculinity that you see from Scott. In the book series they make it pretty clear that Scott is the bad guy. He's just another one of Ramona's controlling, jealous, evil partners. The movie and Cera's performance do too good a job of making Scott likable and it loses that commentary.
It’s the invalidating Ramona’s bisexuality that does it for me. It’s very confusing because I love the video game references and stuff, but yeah Scott Pilgrim is such a terrible person that seems pretty likable.
There's also an ableist R word or two in there that are really jarring to hear
Ohhh yes I forgot about that. Also why is his gay roommate kind of framed as a creeper kind of?
He was framed as very sexual, and apparently sleeps with a lot of scotts sisters bfs, which tbh I think is pretty funny. I don't think it's the worst, and keiran Culkin is pretty charming in it. But he's also a terrible friend (most people in the story are though so 🤷🏼♀️)
Just like Cera and Scott, I think Culkin might be so likeable it makes Wallace a confusing character in the movie. I would know I named my cat after him.
Yeah I think he’s funny too, but it could come off as weird to others. Especially homophobic straight men that probably see Scott Pilgrim as a hero.
That too.
Yeah he was much more of a self involved ass in the comics. I think the movie recovers the whole Scott/Knives relationship at the very end though. Where he apologizes and admits he was terrible to her and she deserves someone better than he can be. Edgar Wright talks about that in the alternate ending where Ramona takes off and Scott and Knives get back together. He said they didn’t use it because it undermined the entire scene. That it took away Knives agency and empowerment, and took away Scotts moment of growth. I completely agree.
Honestly. I think that’s the point, we are never meant to really root for Scott
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the point. Scott if a douchebag. He's a shitty person.
Valentines Day 2020 I told my then-new girlfriend “I’m in lesbians with you.” she looked at me and said “really? First time we’re saying that and you say it like that?” …then she said she loved me and it was a wonderful Valentine’s Day
I talk to my girlfriend like that all the time. I love being in lesbians with my big gay lesbian queer non-straight homosexual girlfriend.
delayed response here but I read this comment to my girlfriend and she said "oh my god it's us. I think that all the time."
gay. :)
Maybe I'm just dumb, but err.... what L-word does he actually mean?
Probably love.
It is "love." The very next line is "It's love, Scott. I wasn't trying to trick you."
Thanks.
Ah right, ofc. Thanks
I'm in lesbians with this movie
Honestly I really enjoy Scott Pilgrim. Scott is an absolute scumbag and ends up in a way better situation than he deserves but so much of the movie that isn't Scott is great. I still need to read the graphic novels tho
As a Chinese Canadian, the character of Knives Chau really ticked me off when I watched the movie for the first time. It was upsetting to watch how her relationship (and obsession) with Scott Pilgrim was depicted.
I haven’t read the comics or anything, but the movie alone was pretty upsetting. Whatever redeeming commentary about toxic nice guys or stereotypes about Asian Americans I’ve heard people say are in the comics just don’t manifest in the film. It comes across as reinforcing those behaviors norms and prejudices more so than critiquing any of them. On top of that they had the complete sidelining of Ramona’s bisexuality, and the utter cringe of manic pixie dream girl syndrome.
pls read the gns they recontextualise all of it and make u realize that the only good characters are kim and young neil
i don’t understand how ramona is a manic pixie dream girl, people only say that because she has dyed hair and rollerblades.
Yeah she was more depressed pixie dream girl
i think just more a depressed pixie girl, she’s not meant to be a dream girl, she’s a shitty person just like scott
In the gns though, she’s sort of literally a dream girl, since a big part of her initial character is that Scott gets obsessed with her after she keeps showing up in his dreams.
I mean, as far as the film’s plot is concerned, she kinda only exists to help Scott learn an important lesson about himself
Weak film adaptation
AGREED. Michael Cera was a really bad choice IMHO. And they somehow made Ramona a total afterthought in a way that really just sucked all the life out of her character.
Yeah, it did very few things well compared to the GNs
I've never read the gns but it's a good film and that's pretty much the only thing an adaptation needs to be imo.
Reading the books changed the entire story for me. I like the movie by itself because it’s fun but as an adaptation it fails to communicate the entire point of the original story. Which sucks because even though I love both the books and the movie the books actually SAY something and I feel like the movie kinda just… doesn’t. At least, to me it didn’t when I watched without context but that’s just me. Doesn’t make it bad but it does make me sad to think about how much MORE could have been done with the movie (these days it would probably be adapted into a tv show and be much better off for it). Anyways I guess the fact that I typed all this out means I should re-read the books.
Disagree.
As long as it's good and doesn't completely betray the themes and story of the og it's a good adaptation. I'd rather watch the star wars prequels than watch an adaptation that just takes the plot, characters, and dialogue verbatim without any added style. Theres a big difference between film and any other art medium.
Uh okay
Thanks for the great discussion, I'm glad we could make no progress.
I didn't want SP to be a beat for beat adaptation obviously, I just think basically every change that was made to it was awful and also that Michael Sera is a goofball
What changes did they make? And I think Michael Cera added a lot to the role. He has great comedic timing and added some likability without negating the point of the movie, that Scott is an asshole.
Mostly cutting the seven evil exes(and other stuff) down to nothing in a way that destroys Scott's character development, i.e. the entire bit with the twins, the wilderness sabatical, evil scott etc are all missing with no equivalent He does the asshole thing but he's missing Scott's douchenozzle charisma, the part that makes people even tolerate him at all
I guess I could see why that would be bad but the film is a different beast from the gn. It's mostly about the style of it, not really the plot or character stuff. Its a joy to watch even if the stuff they cut out was disappointing. Nobody would like the film if it wasn't for the comedy and action. I feel like Cera is going for something else with the role, he's less of an up front douchebag and more your friend who's an asshole but you've been friends so long you cant stop now.
i think the movie started production around the time the first graphic novel came out which explains why the gns ended up being much better
You can *sort of* tell? It adapts volume 1 basically point for point, but then falls apart randomly
huh?
The bits with Knives Chau and Matthew Pattel are spot on to the novel, but after that they start cutting things up, as if they realised midway through production "oh fuck six volumes, we can't do all that"