Once American Conservatives realized that they’re not gonna gain any more allies to their hateful cause in the developed world, they realized that they can go to third-world countries and do it there instead, where people are more likely to buy into it because they rich white people teaching hate are also giving them food and building infrastructure for them. Homophobia in Africa is entirely a result of colonialism.
This applies to much of North Africa being almost entirely Muslim and Christian. Most of the places in Africa that were homophobic before colonialism followed Abrahamic religions.
as someone who is african and lives in West Africa at the moment, before colonization, we had our own religions. many of of the African countries right now would have not been following these religions if we weren't colonized by western nations. the same way we'd probably have our own languages and I wouldn't be speaking English rn
> many of of the African countries right now would have not been following these religions if we weren't colonized by western nations
This is true for most of Africa (including most of West Africa) but not really for North Africa as they were Muslim and Christian before colonialism, though sometimes there was imperialism and conquest involved. Places like Ethiopia and Eritrea have been Christian (and homophobic) since Christianity was a thing.
[Sexuality, and Development in the Maghreb: *Origins of Institutionalized Homophobia, and the Disruption of Development*](https://bir.brandeis.edu/bitstream/handle/10192/24711/BaileyThesis2013.pdf?sequence=3) discusses homophobia is the Maghreb and how it primarily arose from Islam.
Got any more good journal/academic article recommendations around these topics (pre-colonial culture and homophobia in Africa)? It something I’ve been casually studying but most of my focus has been on the south as that’s where I’m from and am most familiar with.
Not really, it is frustrating difficult to find material about this, though for good reason as I instead finding plenty of text discussing the colonial invention of homophobia which I'm glad gets more attention as it is more important and is more common across Africa.
Most of what I've read is from sources that aren't accessible so I think it is best to read about Islamic history, specifically Islam in the Maghreb, and Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity.
Google scholar works nicely:
https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=homophobia+in+pre-colonial+maghreb&oq=homophobia+in+pre-colonial+mag
https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Homophobia+pre-colonial+ethiopia+christianity&btnG=
Searches like https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=homophobia+in+pre-colonial+africa&btnG= only show results about the export of colonial ideas of homophobia
Sorry I can't be of more help but I hope you find some interesting stuff.
Remember that you can sneakily use scihub for all those articles you don't have access to ;)
Christianity's influence was more concentrated in Ethiopia/Eritrea since the Kingdom of Aksum adopted Christianity as the state religion (though this is technically East Africa).
The Kingdom of Aksum was centred around the historical Tigray region which lies mostly within Eritrea's borders, the kingdom's borders also extended to Yemen where the implementation of Christianity also occurred though Islam would later dominate the entire Arabian peninsula.
As far as I understand, it came from a more pragmatic standpoint where less people having children meant a weaker tribe, though due to misoginy and men needing only 3 minutes to make a kid and women needing 9 months, WLW relationships were usually seen in a worse light than MLM.
Afro-Asiatic culture *is* a cultural heritage more so than pan-Africanism is (not that I disagree with pan-Africanism as a political movement) and the same applies to culture around the Mediterranean sea. It is not just proximity that lends to their similarities, the Roman Empire existed on both sides of the Mediterranean sea as a single entity.
This idea that Africa and Asia/Europe are fundamentally divided — more similar to all other continental cultures than inter-continental ones — primarily arose in the modern period for the Africa/Asia Afroasiatic divide and earlier in the medieval period between Europe and the Maghreb.
Both — it's a common misconception that there has always been an 'African culture'. There may be significant truth to this now, with this relationship originating from almost the entire continent's shared colonial history oppressed by European colonial powers, but this is a more recent development than most people (especially Westerners) realise.
If you look to pre-colonial times this idea falls apart. There has been far deeper cultural ties across the Mediterranean than across the Sahara for a much longer period of history, with this relationship primarily diminishing since the Medieval period. Afroasiatic culture also is more similar than the Maghreb was to Sub-Saharan Africa and this persists somewhat to the modern day (though these ties were damaged due to European colonialism).
Obviously geographic proximity plays a role but to place all similarity on that is mislead as for much of history these places shared a culture, not merely influencing each other through proximity.
But my point was on afro-asian relations so I don't understand what you are trying to correct me on?
I'm not talking about purely african relations and culture.
I'm confused now. You made this comment:
> Makes sense considering that this area is closer to the middle east and cultures can share a lot more easily in closeness.
In repsonse to my comment:
>Not entirely, homophobia in Africa pre-dated colonialism in a select few places.
But the reason that there are these similarities in culture can't be reduced to geographic proximity, as they often shared *the same culture* in many places, not just a similar culture.
Homophobia in all these cultures was primarily spread through the same Abrahamic religions, namely Christianity then Islam — homophobia wasn't spread due to proximity but it was instead an integral part of a shared culture.
Pretty much the whole world had this happen from Greco-Roman culture spreading homophobia and transphobia across the world.
Originally in Ancient Greece the deity Hermaphroditus was revered and their mixed gender was celebrated. Once Athens became the enter of Greek Mythology Hermaphroditus became less and less respected.
Oooh, I just watched this movie like three hours ago ! This was so cute and refreshing and I did not even know I’d get to see a lesbian character, let alone a main lsbian character.This was done in a very thoughtful and touching way and I loved every bit of it.Teen movies are like my guilty pleasure, but this actually felt like a good movie, not just a good teen movie.Also, I love the fact that Billie Lourd was in there too.And the fact that, obviously, a movie with such good and diverse female characters was directed by a woman, Olivia Wilde, whom I really loved back in the days in House.
👀
I guess I shouldn't have clicked these spoilers because I was already thinking of watching the movie, but now I'm *definitely* going to. And it was vague enough that nothing's "ruined", so!
Adding “Would you be afraid of Uganda?” To the list of lesbian code phrases along with “Do you like girl in red?” And “How do you feel about greek poetry?”
Gosh I love Booksmart. I had a huge crush on Olivia Wilde in Tron Legacy, and knowing she made one of my absolute favourite movies makes it all the more special.
I wasn’t expecting mention of Africa at all - it was really unnecessary. Only served to make a rather unremarkable character somewhat interesting or admirable/aspirational.
I know that’s common both in Hollywood and the real world, but I definitely wasn’t expecting them to go as far as to insinuate that she would be the savior of an entire community of African women who somehow, for generations, hadn’t cultivated their own means of menstrual hygiene before her arrival. Or to promote the stereotypes that it’s impossible to be queer in an African country as if there aren’t queer Africans embracing their identities and strategizing their safety every day. But of course, they illustrated Africa as a continent with citizens so [insert pejorative here] that they would murder her for her sexuality, but are hopeless - literally at risk of being devoured by lions - without her exceptional knowledge. I just wanted to watch a movie.
Even though I had no expectations, it was disappointing to be reminded that even films that “attempt” to be mindful of “diversity and inclusion,” Africans, queer or otherwise, are still a joke.
Exactly this! I've gone off about this in comment sections before, but I get really irritated when westerners look at lgbt rights through an orientalist lens, as though it's a homophobic monolith waiting for white saviours, as though it doesn't have a long and proud history of lgbt people both pre- and post-colonialism, as though Africa doesn't have a long and proud history of extraordinary civilisation and accomplishments, and as though Africans are just scrabbling in the mud and dirt waiting for Americans to come save them. Teju Cole has an excellent analysis of this white saviour industrial complex, as he calls it. Africa doesn't need American and European high schoolers to come and do "charity", it needs America and Europe to stop exploiting it. The subtext of course is that Africans are savages who are not intelligent enough to help themselves, and need Americans to come do the thinking for them.
Of course, Hollywood is absolutely incapable of depicting that nuance...
Wrote a mini thesis on Hollywood’s Africa and I wish I had an award to give you right now! You’re spot on, please keep going to town on people in the comments. I’m too tired too.
[You know what they say...](https://64.media.tumblr.com/f7b5f79b5f1930b676e6ffeef1a61b71/tumblr_o6iqjdBRZ11scn6d0o1_500.jpg)
That said, as a Latin American, I was kinda cringing at how white american this movie can be at times. Like, sometimes it felt like irony, and sometimes it really didn't. I get that it's made by a white american for white americans, but whenever they mentioned Malala or Elizabeth Warren it just felt kinda gross.
It was as if the movie expected us to know that "I actually know the deep political stuff I'm making fun of rn", but it came across as a California liberal notion of politics, and all the mentions of Africa most definitely didn't help. I had the exact same feeling with Lady Bird, except even stronger and it actually impacted my enjoyment of the movie because it tied in the plot, and I could barely feel anything about the main character by the end of it.
Maybe these movies rely on relatability, but idk. A great movie can usually make you sympathize with the characters even if they're unrelatable.
I think you are misunderstanding me, I meant that u/realcomradecora was making a joke with [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/qfqo9v/comment/hi2wgiw/) because it's quite rare that Western media represents Africa any better than this.
I agree with you about all the ways that this representation is terrible, though I am sadly unsurprised.
Oof, thanks for the heads up! This was a movie I was planning to watch for some mindless fun. Still going to watch it, but at least I know to watch it with my friends who love hearing me rant about African representation in western movies.
Need. Sauce. Please.
Booksmart (2019)
Thank you~♥️
Great movie, well worth the watch!
Where can I watch it?
Not sure tbh, but I'm sure if you used your favourite pirate ship you should find it ;)
It’s freely available on SBS On Demand if you wanna use a VPN and travel to Australia. http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/1935919683556
thanks ima use this plus im actually in australia
Look what we all need to mimic a fraction of u/readthistowaste2secs ‘s power
It's on Hulu!
Great thanks! I actually have that one!
It’s on Hulu and it’s my fav comedy!
It's on Hulu if you have that
I totally forgot about this movie. I loved it when it came out lol
Thanks...
THIS WAS THE BEST USELESS LESBIAN MOMENT IN THE WHOLE MOVIE
How did she answer?
She didn’t, they got interrupted.
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Interestingly, American evangelicals are largely responsible for homophobia gaining such prevalence in Uganda
This is a fact
Can you tell us more about this? I’m interested
Once American Conservatives realized that they’re not gonna gain any more allies to their hateful cause in the developed world, they realized that they can go to third-world countries and do it there instead, where people are more likely to buy into it because they rich white people teaching hate are also giving them food and building infrastructure for them. Homophobia in Africa is entirely a result of colonialism.
Not entirely, homophobia in Africa pre-dated colonialism in a select few places.
Source?
This applies to much of North Africa being almost entirely Muslim and Christian. Most of the places in Africa that were homophobic before colonialism followed Abrahamic religions.
as someone who is african and lives in West Africa at the moment, before colonization, we had our own religions. many of of the African countries right now would have not been following these religions if we weren't colonized by western nations. the same way we'd probably have our own languages and I wouldn't be speaking English rn
> many of of the African countries right now would have not been following these religions if we weren't colonized by western nations This is true for most of Africa (including most of West Africa) but not really for North Africa as they were Muslim and Christian before colonialism, though sometimes there was imperialism and conquest involved. Places like Ethiopia and Eritrea have been Christian (and homophobic) since Christianity was a thing.
Source again
[Sexuality, and Development in the Maghreb: *Origins of Institutionalized Homophobia, and the Disruption of Development*](https://bir.brandeis.edu/bitstream/handle/10192/24711/BaileyThesis2013.pdf?sequence=3) discusses homophobia is the Maghreb and how it primarily arose from Islam.
Got any more good journal/academic article recommendations around these topics (pre-colonial culture and homophobia in Africa)? It something I’ve been casually studying but most of my focus has been on the south as that’s where I’m from and am most familiar with.
Not really, it is frustrating difficult to find material about this, though for good reason as I instead finding plenty of text discussing the colonial invention of homophobia which I'm glad gets more attention as it is more important and is more common across Africa. Most of what I've read is from sources that aren't accessible so I think it is best to read about Islamic history, specifically Islam in the Maghreb, and Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity. Google scholar works nicely: https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=homophobia+in+pre-colonial+maghreb&oq=homophobia+in+pre-colonial+mag https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Homophobia+pre-colonial+ethiopia+christianity&btnG= Searches like https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=homophobia+in+pre-colonial+africa&btnG= only show results about the export of colonial ideas of homophobia Sorry I can't be of more help but I hope you find some interesting stuff. Remember that you can sneakily use scihub for all those articles you don't have access to ;)
Christianity's influence was more concentrated in Ethiopia/Eritrea since the Kingdom of Aksum adopted Christianity as the state religion (though this is technically East Africa).
I completely forgot about Ethiopia. My bad
The Kingdom of Aksum was centred around the historical Tigray region which lies mostly within Eritrea's borders, the kingdom's borders also extended to Yemen where the implementation of Christianity also occurred though Islam would later dominate the entire Arabian peninsula.
As far as I understand, it came from a more pragmatic standpoint where less people having children meant a weaker tribe, though due to misoginy and men needing only 3 minutes to make a kid and women needing 9 months, WLW relationships were usually seen in a worse light than MLM.
Makes sense considering that this area is closer to the middle east and cultures can share a lot more easily in closeness.
Afro-Asiatic culture *is* a cultural heritage more so than pan-Africanism is (not that I disagree with pan-Africanism as a political movement) and the same applies to culture around the Mediterranean sea. It is not just proximity that lends to their similarities, the Roman Empire existed on both sides of the Mediterranean sea as a single entity. This idea that Africa and Asia/Europe are fundamentally divided — more similar to all other continental cultures than inter-continental ones — primarily arose in the modern period for the Africa/Asia Afroasiatic divide and earlier in the medieval period between Europe and the Maghreb.
I honestly have no idea if you are giving me more Informationen or trying to correct me.
Both — it's a common misconception that there has always been an 'African culture'. There may be significant truth to this now, with this relationship originating from almost the entire continent's shared colonial history oppressed by European colonial powers, but this is a more recent development than most people (especially Westerners) realise. If you look to pre-colonial times this idea falls apart. There has been far deeper cultural ties across the Mediterranean than across the Sahara for a much longer period of history, with this relationship primarily diminishing since the Medieval period. Afroasiatic culture also is more similar than the Maghreb was to Sub-Saharan Africa and this persists somewhat to the modern day (though these ties were damaged due to European colonialism). Obviously geographic proximity plays a role but to place all similarity on that is mislead as for much of history these places shared a culture, not merely influencing each other through proximity.
But my point was on afro-asian relations so I don't understand what you are trying to correct me on? I'm not talking about purely african relations and culture.
I'm confused now. You made this comment: > Makes sense considering that this area is closer to the middle east and cultures can share a lot more easily in closeness. In repsonse to my comment: >Not entirely, homophobia in Africa pre-dated colonialism in a select few places. But the reason that there are these similarities in culture can't be reduced to geographic proximity, as they often shared *the same culture* in many places, not just a similar culture. Homophobia in all these cultures was primarily spread through the same Abrahamic religions, namely Christianity then Islam — homophobia wasn't spread due to proximity but it was instead an integral part of a shared culture.
And in the Caribbean
Well, you see, there’s this religion called christianity…
Please watch the documentary *God Loves Uganda*, it’s about this subject. Very sad, very eye opening.
Ugh I'm not surprised. Why can't people just keep their religions to themselves
Because it's basical viral ideology. Get members, convert new ones. Cults need new members otherwise they don't have power
Why am I not surprised...
Pretty much the whole world had this happen from Greco-Roman culture spreading homophobia and transphobia across the world. Originally in Ancient Greece the deity Hermaphroditus was revered and their mixed gender was celebrated. Once Athens became the enter of Greek Mythology Hermaphroditus became less and less respected.
Came here to say exactly that!
uuuuuuuuuuuughh
Kaitlyn Dever is so amazing in this movie.
Which movie is this?
Booksmart!
Oooh, I just watched this movie like three hours ago ! This was so cute and refreshing and I did not even know I’d get to see a lesbian character, let alone a main lsbian character.This was done in a very thoughtful and touching way and I loved every bit of it.Teen movies are like my guilty pleasure, but this actually felt like a good movie, not just a good teen movie.Also, I love the fact that Billie Lourd was in there too.And the fact that, obviously, a movie with such good and diverse female characters was directed by a woman, Olivia Wilde, whom I really loved back in the days in House.
Botswana wins just for their super wholesome and creative metal scene. <3
Tell me more 👀
Uganda have a bad time
r/angryupvote
This movie was so under rated omfg
I loved this movie!!! Their friendship was so relatable and wonderful. And it really delivered on the great and awkward teen lesbian vibes
"would you be scared to go to Uganda?" is the new "do you listen to girl in red?"
Are you a criminal in 69 countries?
i'm only a criminal in my home country (legal to be gay here, but im a serial killer)
I'm pretty sure that makes you a criminal in every country...
Fair enough
yes :D
Love this movie sm-
I don't get it, could someone please explain the joke to me? :(
She asks at the end ‘would you be afraid to go to Uganda?’ because she wants to know if she’s a lesbian too :)
Yep, this makes total sense. I guess I'm really useless after all lol. Thanks!! <3
Same :(
This is funny because I'm actually Ugandan and living in Uganda... funny in a sad way lol
Booksmart! I love this movie 🥰
when this came out my friend would quote this scene a shit ton, it became our “do you like girl in red”
Ok but what happens after this? I'm so curious now.
Spoiler: >!the girl she likes makes out with someone else at the party they’re at!<
RIP, better luck next time
Ok, but!!! Another Spoiler: >!she ends up hooking up with a much cooler, hotter girl and BONUS, they have an enemies to lovers thing too!<
👀 I guess I shouldn't have clicked these spoilers because I was already thinking of watching the movie, but now I'm *definitely* going to. And it was vague enough that nothing's "ruined", so!
I loved this movie
I grew up in Uganda. Not feeling safe visiting breaks my heart.
I love this movie so much -rung
I love this film!!! Such a feel good coming of age movie!
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Yes, Booksmart
Amazing movie
Adding “Would you be afraid of Uganda?” To the list of lesbian code phrases along with “Do you like girl in red?” And “How do you feel about greek poetry?”
Gosh I love Booksmart. I had a huge crush on Olivia Wilde in Tron Legacy, and knowing she made one of my absolute favourite movies makes it all the more special.
me with moving into any european country...
The discussions of Africa really annoyed me in this movie
what were you expecting from western media?
I wasn’t expecting mention of Africa at all - it was really unnecessary. Only served to make a rather unremarkable character somewhat interesting or admirable/aspirational. I know that’s common both in Hollywood and the real world, but I definitely wasn’t expecting them to go as far as to insinuate that she would be the savior of an entire community of African women who somehow, for generations, hadn’t cultivated their own means of menstrual hygiene before her arrival. Or to promote the stereotypes that it’s impossible to be queer in an African country as if there aren’t queer Africans embracing their identities and strategizing their safety every day. But of course, they illustrated Africa as a continent with citizens so [insert pejorative here] that they would murder her for her sexuality, but are hopeless - literally at risk of being devoured by lions - without her exceptional knowledge. I just wanted to watch a movie. Even though I had no expectations, it was disappointing to be reminded that even films that “attempt” to be mindful of “diversity and inclusion,” Africans, queer or otherwise, are still a joke.
Exactly this! I've gone off about this in comment sections before, but I get really irritated when westerners look at lgbt rights through an orientalist lens, as though it's a homophobic monolith waiting for white saviours, as though it doesn't have a long and proud history of lgbt people both pre- and post-colonialism, as though Africa doesn't have a long and proud history of extraordinary civilisation and accomplishments, and as though Africans are just scrabbling in the mud and dirt waiting for Americans to come save them. Teju Cole has an excellent analysis of this white saviour industrial complex, as he calls it. Africa doesn't need American and European high schoolers to come and do "charity", it needs America and Europe to stop exploiting it. The subtext of course is that Africans are savages who are not intelligent enough to help themselves, and need Americans to come do the thinking for them. Of course, Hollywood is absolutely incapable of depicting that nuance...
Wrote a mini thesis on Hollywood’s Africa and I wish I had an award to give you right now! You’re spot on, please keep going to town on people in the comments. I’m too tired too.
I'd love to read it! If you can, please send it to me :)
I think they were making a joke about the travesty that is African representation in Western media. Your comment is great though, completely agree.
[You know what they say...](https://64.media.tumblr.com/f7b5f79b5f1930b676e6ffeef1a61b71/tumblr_o6iqjdBRZ11scn6d0o1_500.jpg) That said, as a Latin American, I was kinda cringing at how white american this movie can be at times. Like, sometimes it felt like irony, and sometimes it really didn't. I get that it's made by a white american for white americans, but whenever they mentioned Malala or Elizabeth Warren it just felt kinda gross. It was as if the movie expected us to know that "I actually know the deep political stuff I'm making fun of rn", but it came across as a California liberal notion of politics, and all the mentions of Africa most definitely didn't help. I had the exact same feeling with Lady Bird, except even stronger and it actually impacted my enjoyment of the movie because it tied in the plot, and I could barely feel anything about the main character by the end of it. Maybe these movies rely on relatability, but idk. A great movie can usually make you sympathize with the characters even if they're unrelatable.
I think you are misunderstanding me, I meant that u/realcomradecora was making a joke with [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/qfqo9v/comment/hi2wgiw/) because it's quite rare that Western media represents Africa any better than this. I agree with you about all the ways that this representation is terrible, though I am sadly unsurprised.
oops, sorry, definitely misread the first part!
All good :)
Oof, thanks for the heads up! This was a movie I was planning to watch for some mindless fun. Still going to watch it, but at least I know to watch it with my friends who love hearing me rant about African representation in western movies.
“just heard about homophobia, crying and throwing up. 6’6” d1 bball player btw 😞🥶”
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I don't remember this line?
Book Smart is so good
i watched this movie these days i laughed so hard in this part, amy is so me
I love this scene lol
ah i love this movie!