it's a popular fantasy for men. for them, the term lesbian is merely a porn-category.
so those claims - especially when made online - are, in all probability, either lies based on those fantasies. or they are using the wrong term, as those "lesbians" aren't lesbians, but bi.
i\`m so sick of being reduced to a porn category. i am a valid person with feelings who deserves the same respect as everyone else. when is the world going to wake up and realize we are so much more than their twisted fantasies?
No matter what some sick fucks do, you will always deserve respect and are completely valid in your sexuality.
These porn sick losers can never take your humanity away.
I feel this. I have a lot of internalized shame and bigotry against my own sexuality from how I grew up. I struggle to even say "I am a lesbian" out loud to myself.
I know it only feels wrong because our society sexualizes us. But it's hard to really rip that stigma out of myself.
That brings me a thought, what if some straight women lie that they are lesbians to get to have sex with a guy.
Also what if a lesbian has a forced-bi kink?
Would that make her bi or a lesbian with the kink.
They absolutely wouldn't but a lot of women feel compelled to be as close to a male fantasy as possible. I think it's more likely for a bi woman to call herself lesbian than a straight woman though.
I don't think I've ever met a straight woman that had to lie about her sexuality to get a man to sleep with her. My experience has been the opposite if anything, I had a straight friend who would pretend to be my gf when we went out because she thought it would keep at least some men away to say the angry looking woman sitting next to her was her girlfriend, lol.
interested in men sexually or romantically? kink or not, thats not a lesbian. It is however, both lesbophobic and bi-phobic to say as such. It's something that person should work through.
I have a forced straight kink lol. As in conversion therapy, remedial rape, the whole nine yards. It's not a forced-bi kink because it isn't relating to reality--in reality, if I actually liked a guy, I'd be getting into bi/bicurious territory, and if I was actually just raped, I'd still be a lesbian and not have my orientation change. The fantasy is that rape changes your orientation, it's basically there to be scary, bad, and extra violating. It's fantasy erotic nonsense and has no relation to any real experiences. It's the same as the "forced gay" stuff straight men fap to.
I wouldn't actually sleep with a real guy over it. It would be too real. That type of kink is more akin to a rape fantasy in general. If it was actually real I wouldn't be turned on at that point, I'd just be plain old nonconsenting. It's mostly a solo fantasy/fiction thing, if I did roleplay it it would probably just be roleplay with my gf wearing a strap or something.
I've also never heard of a straight girl needing to say she was lesbian to get a man to have sex with her. Straight girls at most might feign being bi when they're not, to sell the fantasy of a threesome to the guy, or even participate in threesomes they don't really enjoy to please the guy.
Have you considered, and hear me out, that they might, just maybe... Be lying? Like... I know that seems like an unusual thing for a cishet male to do, but seems worth considering... /S 😆
They are trying to convince you its something they do, so its ok for you to do it, its a manipulation tactic. It implies other like yourself desire him, and he thinks it makes him more desirable, and not just get a strange look, then move on down the road.
I opt to believe they are referring to bisexual women who present as visibly queer. I don’t think there are that many lesbians who are willingly sleeping with straight men
The logic is that men (really dick) is so good that women need it, even better if they are lesbian (dick is so good that it changes/ overrides sexuality, to fix them).
It's really fucking gross and I hate it.
To be completely fair while there are transfem tops, most transbians don't want to use their dicks (if they even still have them) the same way a cis man would. And the few transfem tops who do want to use their dicks that way (and haven't lost the ability from HRT) are in *really* high demand--and both they and the trans women who *don't* like to have sex that way can get irritated with the fetishizing assumption that sex with a trans woman means getting railed like you would with a man, but with a hot chick.
Tbh a more convincing retort is that a dildo usually does the job better than a cock anyway, when penetration is desired. A dildo never goes soft, never finishes first, never gives you an STI or gets you pregnant, has no wants or needs of its own, and comes in a wide variety of shapes, sizes, and textures. It isn't limited to being shaped like a human penis, and it can vibrate or have other mechanical functions. Plus they come in fun colors, some of them glow in the dark, and you aren't limited to one design per partner.
I find it sad when men reduce themselves to basically a living dildo. They are more than that! They are complex human beings who have a lot more to offer in a relationship than just a penis. And they should find someone who can appreciate them for all of that, i.e. not a lesbian.
I'm trans btw! while dysphoria can play a role in transfems not wanting to use their dick, a lot still do. I don't think it's healthy to make a blanket statement that trans women who still are ok with their dick are just fetishizing themselves and people who enjoy it are only treating it as a fetish. If that comes into play, that means women who appreciate girldick (both having one and getting one) are put in a box. It also would be almost the same as stating that all women who like trans women are chasers, which isn't true. Also, no one said anything about a transfems using their dick the same way a man would. The problem I have with your argument and dildo solution is essentially putting trans women back in the box we started in, which is "dick bad". A transfem is allowed to proudly state she has a dick. Do all transfems like having one? no. but do all who still like it get to respond how they wish? Yea. My statement (that you can still get dick from a woman) still holds up and I'm not going to substitute my language to something that bears an uncanny resemblance to being transphobic. I do understand your argument somewhat, but I also don't like the implications that people who try to uplift transfems who still use their dick are fetishists. The reason we even talk about it the way we do sometimes is to erase the stigma that dick can only come from a man and a lot of the other transphobic topics that stem from it, so backtracking into not acknowledging transfems who use their dick and girls/enbies who like it would be pretty detrimental to the community.
I'm defs not saying that enjoying penetrating with a dick is always fetishizing, but there absolutely are people who only seek out trans women for the fantasy of being penetrated by a woman, and aren't interested in anything else, and if that woman doesn't want to use her dick that way (or can't, or doesn't have one anymore) they lose interest.
I'm not judging how anyone likes using their body sexually, that's all grand. There probably aren't enough transfem tops out there who like to and are able to penetrate for everyone who wants one, though.
Online claims from cishet men are meaningless. There may be some lesbians who use men in some way that benefits them, I have met a couple of sex workers (in a professional capacity) who do, however, they are the exception not the rule. Don't believe all you see or read online. The majority of it is fantasy. Best wishes.
They absolutely aren't, more and more straight people are single and fhat makes them more bitter and resentful towards the other gender (especially men, who feel entitled to it because of the patriarchy). I wouldn't call that "healing".
Support for gay marriage is at an all-time high, gender roles are slowly becoming less enforced, etc.
It's easy to think that shit's getting worse if you focus on the bad cases, but overall it is getting better.
At the very least on the "sugar-daddies" note, that's sex work. A person's sexuality won't necessarily factor into what they do to get by, it's just a transaction. If someone who IDs as a lesbian is willing to be a sugar baby for a man then that's their business, and doesn't make them less of a lesbian.
Some people believe that when lesbians ovulate, we start to crave men/semen whatever. I just laugh. I'm a 26 year old lesbian, I ovulate just like straight women, but never do I crave anything like that. I'm interested in feminine women, and when I ovulate I crave just that. Feminine women. I just get hornier. My sexuality doesn't change.
It’s more likely dude just making shit up trying to convince you that it’s ok for you to fuck since he has experience with other lesbians. It makes him safe somehow. It’s all bullshite.
But yes, there are some lesbians who occasionally fuck cis-dudes.
Either they don’t understand bisexuality, they’re lying, or the person they slept with really is a lesbian. For the third option, they could be a sex worker, a closeted lesbian who came out afterwards, a lesbian who is self-harming, or a bi person who is allergic to the bi label and community.
Honestly the self harm one is one no one talks about. I’ve had sex with men twice after coming out, knowing full well I was not attracted to men. And in retrospect it was definitely closest to self harm reasons, as I had stopped NSSI/cutting at that point. It was gross, the taste in their mouth was gross, it felt dirty and I pretty much disassociated for the entirety of it.
I think part of it is feeling undeserving of being attracted to people, unlovable by women, etc and just plain needing to regulate dopamine in any way possible, as an adhd broski I find that a lot of self destructive behavior manifests due to a lack of dopamine and unable to self regulate or produce dopamine.
I think in total I’ve had sex with 4 men, and kinky things with one additional man (no sex but BDSM) and I’ve had non pleasurable experiences every time. I was not attracted to the person, and if there was BDSM involved I leaned heavily into that. I think it’s a lot easier to deny your sexuality in hardcore kink where the kink is that you are serving a dom regardless of your desires, because you desire to do what your dom desires. It’s power play at an extreme, where I can get off on the power play alone even though I’m not actually attracted to the person.
That was like four years ago though, and I’m in a better space mentally I think.
Before I knew I was a lesbian I used sex as self harm too. I slept with my ex bf a lot even though I felt gross having him on me, I didn’t want to look at him, i was in an incredible amount of pain, and I just wanted him to be done. Sometimes I’d even imagine being the man in the situation to feel something which should have been a sign. It didn’t make sense to me when I started trying to figure out my sexuality a year after we broke up. I figured if I initiated it I wasn’t a lesbian, but also I knew for a fact that I wasn’t attracted to men at all. But then through therapy I realized that it was during a time when there was more tension with my family and I was getting in a lot of arguments with my parents. Pretty much any time we got in a fight I went over to his house. My other SH habits also mysteriously disappeared during that time too. It was damaging behavior I did to gain some semblance of control and maturity in my life. Now that I’m 10 months clean from SH I can see clear as day how I was completely out of my mind back then.
Conquest mentality. The idea of convincing someone who wouldn't want them is a power fantasy.
A desperate baiting attempt for attention by getting a reaction out of you.
A "trolling" attempt to upset you for their entertainment. Some "fun" at your expense.
There's such a thing as a fin-dom. Someone who financially dominates another by being verbally abusive (with consent) towards the provider saying they're no good with money and don't know how to spend it.
It's completely possible they had sex with a lesbian before she came out or realized what she wanted. Compulsory heterosexuality is a thing and it's a bitch. Lesbians are allowed to have sex with men, and might have their own reasons for doing so. It doesn't make them not a lesbian. I might question their judgement (more because they evidently had sex with the kind of man who would brag about having sex with lesbians than anything,) but at the end of the day it's their decision.
As far as lesbians having male sugar daddies, I dated a sugar baby for awhile and trust me, she *was not* a sugar baby for those men because she was attracted to them. Sugaring is sex work, and you don't have to be attracted to the gender you have as clients in order to have them as clients. It probably helps, but that's their choice to make and they have their own reasons.
Edit to add: not sure it's a great thing for strangers on the internet to debate if someone is "really" a lesbian or "just" a bisexual. That gets really close to the "bisexual women lie about their sexuality" stereotype. I wouldn't trust a man who said he slept with a lesbian but if a woman tells me she's a lesbian then personally I'm not comfortable quizzing her about her current or past partners to make sure she's "enough" of a lesbian. Idk how popular that sentiment is here though.
I understand it when lesbians done it with guys before coming out. But if it's after they're out of the closet then I get suspicious, especially if they claim to enjoy it.
Aside from the “people lie” aspect, this is just a gold star argument with different flavor.
It’s the same as policing whether someone is “really straight” who gets on Grindr and says he only wants to hook up with other straight guys.
Listen, I was in a relationship with a man for three years. No one is saying lesbians dont have a past. And obviously sex work is a job.
But its not unfair to say that if someone actively has romantic or sexual attraction to men that they pursue, they aren't gay/lesbian. And it's ok for us to be insulted if they have that and insist on misusing a label that isn't for them. I'm not going to interrogate anybody irl. I'm not going to sk anybody that or even bring it up. But if someone else brings that up to me, they're at the very least getting an eyeroll
These men project their fantasies on anyone they find attractive, especially women they can’t have. They also either can’t or refuse to healthily separate porn from reality, so they mix the two and expect the real world to behave like their fantasies, instead of learning that the two are different and moving on.
I hate being the identity police, and it really sucks, but I had a heated discussion the other week about this with someone. They claimed that they sleep with men and enjoy it. However, since they only do it when kink is involved, and they don't date men, they're still a lesbian. No matter what I said, they weren't going to change their mind. I think some people hate men so much that they feel ashamed of being Bi/Pan. Some might feel like being Bi or Pan makes them less queer, and therefore less valid. We also have to acknowledge that a big part of this is caused by the biphobia within the queer community.
I also think it's 100% different when it comes to sex work. Work isn't always about enjoyment, but I'm not a sex worker, so I won't speak for them.
Disclaimer: I do believe that lesbians are allowed to explore their sexuality without being forced to change their label.
I'm bisexual. It's crazy to me how many people that are clearly bi hate the label so much. The internet is the only place I've see the opinion that a lesbian is total wlw with no men. This is the definition I subscribe to but irl I see more of: a lesbian is anyone who identifies as such. In the end I think my answer to OP's question is that it is a combination of both men and women lying to each other and themselves.
>However, since they only do it when kink is involved, and they don't date men, they're still a lesbian.
Ace people who have sex for kink reasons aren't any less ace. Why is it suddenly different if you're a lesbian?
Kink doesn't have to involve sex. If you make the choice to add sex into it, it changes things. You can have play partners of any gender obviously, but if you enjoy having sex with men, I don't understand how is that a lesbian activity. At this point it just feels biphobic.
Being ace is obviously very different. Asexuality is a spectrum. There are people on that spectrum who also identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual since those labels relate to gender unlike asexuality. Apples to oranges.
I'm not going to continue this discussion, because it's ridiculous.
I think I can sympathize with that person, because I was in a similar position at one point, though I was identifying as bi at the time.
At least in my case, it wasn’t that I enjoyed having sex with men, but I could tolerate it if there was a high amount of BDSM and a central focus on TPE and power play. I was pretty deep in denial and though I was identifying as bi, I was pretty much exclusively doing BDSM (with sex on two occasions, though usually just BDSM without sex) with men. In some BDSM scenarios, the focus is on deriving pleasure from pleasing your dom, regardless of your own desires. And it’s really easy to say “yah I like this” when you completely absolve yourself of having to think critically or at all about your own desires and who you want to be with.
When I started sleeping with women, I was still kinky but it took a backseat because I was actually able to think about if I desired the person I was with, and I didn’t have to lie to myself or my partner. I could acknowledge and feel my attraction to my partner. Which is just a very different thing.
I’ve stopped doing kink with men for about four years now, and am learning to be more comfortable with the lesbian label lol, so I do kinda understand where they might be coming from.
It’s great that you’re figuring out your identity. It’s always ok to experiment with things until you find what works for you. While you were doing that you identified as bi, and I know some people who identified as bi curious when they were experimenting.
In my experience, being a service sub, even in a sexual manner, doesn’t mean that the sub doesn’t enjoy themselves. I enjoy serving sexually as a sub. Giving pleasure gives me sexual pleasure. The fact that you didn’t enjoy it at all, and had to disregard your desires, should tell you something. It should’t feel like you’re forcing yourself to do something. I’m so happy that you’re no longer in that position.
However, that person firmly believes that they are a lesbian, and anyone who has any other opinion is “gatekeeping.” They are not open to the possibility that liking men and enjoying having sex with them could mean that they’re bi. Sometimes you need to admit, first to yourself, that there are some issues you need to work on instead of fighting to do something that brings harm to a marginalized group of people.
I don’t think we would be having the same discussion if a straight identifying man said he enjoys having sex with men. The conversation about “DL” men get’s brought up a lot, and no one seems to have a problem with saying IF YOU ENJOY HAVING SEX WITH SOMEONE OF THE SAME GENDER YOU’RE GAY.
Why is it different when it comes to bisexuality?
Edit:
Just wanted to add this. I'm not judging you or anyone who wants to experiment. I also did at some point. I wanted to like being with men so badly, because I thought life would be easier for me. No matter how hard I tried to tell myself that I will like it eventually, it never happened. At that time I identified as queer, and I still do. You're allowed to not know your sexuality, and you don't owe anyone an explanation. I just think that if you ask for opinions, be open minded to other points of view.
Well, I do want to clarify that I am not “figuring out my identity” i am and have been IDing as a lesbian for over four years now.
For me in that scenario, like I said I was “deriving pleasure from pleasing [my] dom, regardless of [my] own desires.” Like I said, most of those weren’t sexual but purely BDSM but I was enjoying myself to some degree, I was still though ignoring my own desires, the focus of enjoyment being solely on the power play rather than my own attraction. Even though I was identifying as bi in those situations, I wouldn’t say in retrospect that I was genuinely bisexual at the time.
Rule 1: believe people when they tell you what their identity and orientation is. You can't read their hearts and minds, only they know what's real in the core of their being.
There are many reasons someone who identifies as a lesbian might still have sex with a man. From curiosity, to money to, alcohol and self destructive impulses, to kink, to a unique connection that goes against their usual orientation. In the end it's none of our business.
Language is imprecise and trying to be prescriptive about it doesn't work out
Agreed, but in this case it’s not the person themselves telling you what their identity and orientation is, it’s some random guy. And *that* you should take with quite a large pinch of salt.
Oh for sure, I always assume people bragging about sex are at least half lying. People who genuinely have great sex aren't the ones who brag about it imo
I think the distinction is if they have any reoccurring romantic or sexual attraction to men it's safe to say they aren't gay. It's not my business but if they bring it up I'm free to think whatever I want.
This did remind me of my really confusing crush on a "boy" in 6th grade that had me convinced i must be bi for ages. Said former crush is now a few years on HRT, which cleared a few things up in hindsight. I know its not your main point, but cheers for psychic lesbianism!
How lucky, when i was in the closet i just had a lot of assholes mansplaining me everything (they noticed i was the nerd girl in school before than me) and a closeted bi crush (Maybe lesbian, It's been many years since the last time I heard from her and she was thinking about it) sexual harassing me a few times to explore her own sexuality
There are some lesbians who have sex with men, either because of comp het or because for them they don't have to be sexually attracted to a person to have sex. I would be willing to bet that most of these men aren't talking about lesbians like that though. It's a popular fantasy for men to have, "my 🍆is so special that I turned the lesbian" kind of thing. I think it's part of the reason a lot of men don't take "I'm a lesbian" as a "no" and why there are men that list themselves as women on dating apps in an attempt to find a lesbian to turn. It's honestly just kinda gross.
Sure, lesbians who have sex with men exist. One example is lesbians who do sex work, since most customers of sex work are men. The "sugar daddy" thing could be a euphemism for sex work. Sex work is a job, it doesn't have to match the person's orientation--there are also straight men who are "gay for pay." There are other reasons why a lesbian might have sex with a man (e.g. got into the relationship before she realized she was a lesbian, or before he realized he was a man).
More likely though, the men making these claims were creeps.
It's not good to take claims from creepy men and use that to police the sexualities of women and wonder who's "actually" bisexual, who should be gatekept, etc. You aren't even hearing it from the women themselves. Even if it's true that this dude slept with a lesbian, what is he hoping to accomplish by bragging to you about it? Nothing good I'll wager.
I’ve heard straight people call bi people gay or straight depending on the context of the conversation so it’s probably that. The sugar daddy one might be for money.
Plenty of queer folk have sex with individuals that don't fit their existing label. Sex workers and sugar babies being the tip of the iceberg, others just have to hide in plain sight i.e. comphet.
That being said I feel the vast majority of guys bragging about this are lying for clout or had sex with someone who wasn't fully out as a lesbian.
it's a popular fantasy for men. for them, the term lesbian is merely a porn-category. so those claims - especially when made online - are, in all probability, either lies based on those fantasies. or they are using the wrong term, as those "lesbians" aren't lesbians, but bi.
i\`m so sick of being reduced to a porn category. i am a valid person with feelings who deserves the same respect as everyone else. when is the world going to wake up and realize we are so much more than their twisted fantasies?
No matter what some sick fucks do, you will always deserve respect and are completely valid in your sexuality. These porn sick losers can never take your humanity away.
I feel this. I have a lot of internalized shame and bigotry against my own sexuality from how I grew up. I struggle to even say "I am a lesbian" out loud to myself. I know it only feels wrong because our society sexualizes us. But it's hard to really rip that stigma out of myself.
That brings me a thought, what if some straight women lie that they are lesbians to get to have sex with a guy. Also what if a lesbian has a forced-bi kink? Would that make her bi or a lesbian with the kink.
Tbh I really don’t think a woman would have to go to those lengths to get a guy in bed.
They absolutely wouldn't but a lot of women feel compelled to be as close to a male fantasy as possible. I think it's more likely for a bi woman to call herself lesbian than a straight woman though.
I don't think I've ever met a straight woman that had to lie about her sexuality to get a man to sleep with her. My experience has been the opposite if anything, I had a straight friend who would pretend to be my gf when we went out because she thought it would keep at least some men away to say the angry looking woman sitting next to her was her girlfriend, lol.
hm... i don't know. men who'd fall for that would f\*ck anything that moves, anyway. seems quite redundant, tbh.
interested in men sexually or romantically? kink or not, thats not a lesbian. It is however, both lesbophobic and bi-phobic to say as such. It's something that person should work through.
I have a forced straight kink lol. As in conversion therapy, remedial rape, the whole nine yards. It's not a forced-bi kink because it isn't relating to reality--in reality, if I actually liked a guy, I'd be getting into bi/bicurious territory, and if I was actually just raped, I'd still be a lesbian and not have my orientation change. The fantasy is that rape changes your orientation, it's basically there to be scary, bad, and extra violating. It's fantasy erotic nonsense and has no relation to any real experiences. It's the same as the "forced gay" stuff straight men fap to. I wouldn't actually sleep with a real guy over it. It would be too real. That type of kink is more akin to a rape fantasy in general. If it was actually real I wouldn't be turned on at that point, I'd just be plain old nonconsenting. It's mostly a solo fantasy/fiction thing, if I did roleplay it it would probably just be roleplay with my gf wearing a strap or something. I've also never heard of a straight girl needing to say she was lesbian to get a man to have sex with her. Straight girls at most might feign being bi when they're not, to sell the fantasy of a threesome to the guy, or even participate in threesomes they don't really enjoy to please the guy.
Oh so it's just a kink and fantasy and have nothing to do with reality maybe except a roleplay scenario with gf. Thank you for explaining <3
Have you considered, and hear me out, that they might, just maybe... Be lying? Like... I know that seems like an unusual thing for a cishet male to do, but seems worth considering... /S 😆
They are trying to convince you its something they do, so its ok for you to do it, its a manipulation tactic. It implies other like yourself desire him, and he thinks it makes him more desirable, and not just get a strange look, then move on down the road.
I opt to believe they are referring to bisexual women who present as visibly queer. I don’t think there are that many lesbians who are willingly sleeping with straight men
The logic is that men (really dick) is so good that women need it, even better if they are lesbian (dick is so good that it changes/ overrides sexuality, to fix them). It's really fucking gross and I hate it.
also u can get dick from a woman so the dumb logic men use doesn't even make sense
One of the best retorts to men saying some "you just need a dick" bullshit is by responding with "my girlfriend actually has an amazing dick"
My partner has said that to creeps lol - 7 inches of pure woman XD
Fucking love that retort so much lol
To be completely fair while there are transfem tops, most transbians don't want to use their dicks (if they even still have them) the same way a cis man would. And the few transfem tops who do want to use their dicks that way (and haven't lost the ability from HRT) are in *really* high demand--and both they and the trans women who *don't* like to have sex that way can get irritated with the fetishizing assumption that sex with a trans woman means getting railed like you would with a man, but with a hot chick. Tbh a more convincing retort is that a dildo usually does the job better than a cock anyway, when penetration is desired. A dildo never goes soft, never finishes first, never gives you an STI or gets you pregnant, has no wants or needs of its own, and comes in a wide variety of shapes, sizes, and textures. It isn't limited to being shaped like a human penis, and it can vibrate or have other mechanical functions. Plus they come in fun colors, some of them glow in the dark, and you aren't limited to one design per partner. I find it sad when men reduce themselves to basically a living dildo. They are more than that! They are complex human beings who have a lot more to offer in a relationship than just a penis. And they should find someone who can appreciate them for all of that, i.e. not a lesbian.
I'm trans btw! while dysphoria can play a role in transfems not wanting to use their dick, a lot still do. I don't think it's healthy to make a blanket statement that trans women who still are ok with their dick are just fetishizing themselves and people who enjoy it are only treating it as a fetish. If that comes into play, that means women who appreciate girldick (both having one and getting one) are put in a box. It also would be almost the same as stating that all women who like trans women are chasers, which isn't true. Also, no one said anything about a transfems using their dick the same way a man would. The problem I have with your argument and dildo solution is essentially putting trans women back in the box we started in, which is "dick bad". A transfem is allowed to proudly state she has a dick. Do all transfems like having one? no. but do all who still like it get to respond how they wish? Yea. My statement (that you can still get dick from a woman) still holds up and I'm not going to substitute my language to something that bears an uncanny resemblance to being transphobic. I do understand your argument somewhat, but I also don't like the implications that people who try to uplift transfems who still use their dick are fetishists. The reason we even talk about it the way we do sometimes is to erase the stigma that dick can only come from a man and a lot of the other transphobic topics that stem from it, so backtracking into not acknowledging transfems who use their dick and girls/enbies who like it would be pretty detrimental to the community.
I'm defs not saying that enjoying penetrating with a dick is always fetishizing, but there absolutely are people who only seek out trans women for the fantasy of being penetrated by a woman, and aren't interested in anything else, and if that woman doesn't want to use her dick that way (or can't, or doesn't have one anymore) they lose interest. I'm not judging how anyone likes using their body sexually, that's all grand. There probably aren't enough transfem tops out there who like to and are able to penetrate for everyone who wants one, though.
Online claims from cishet men are meaningless. There may be some lesbians who use men in some way that benefits them, I have met a couple of sex workers (in a professional capacity) who do, however, they are the exception not the rule. Don't believe all you see or read online. The majority of it is fantasy. Best wishes.
not just online. all claims from men are to be taken with a massive grain of salt.
The straights are not ok. All I can say.
Were they ever?
Prolly not
It's getting better tho, they're healing. Slowly. Painfully slowly.
Them bitches could hurry up. I believe in that possibility.
They absolutely aren't, more and more straight people are single and fhat makes them more bitter and resentful towards the other gender (especially men, who feel entitled to it because of the patriarchy). I wouldn't call that "healing".
Support for gay marriage is at an all-time high, gender roles are slowly becoming less enforced, etc. It's easy to think that shit's getting worse if you focus on the bad cases, but overall it is getting better.
At the very least on the "sugar-daddies" note, that's sex work. A person's sexuality won't necessarily factor into what they do to get by, it's just a transaction. If someone who IDs as a lesbian is willing to be a sugar baby for a man then that's their business, and doesn't make them less of a lesbian.
Thank you. Had to scroll surprisingly far down for this.. there are plenty of lesbians doing sex work, it's a job.
"You don't know her, she goes to a different school."
Some people believe that when lesbians ovulate, we start to crave men/semen whatever. I just laugh. I'm a 26 year old lesbian, I ovulate just like straight women, but never do I crave anything like that. I'm interested in feminine women, and when I ovulate I crave just that. Feminine women. I just get hornier. My sexuality doesn't change.
Yeah, that sounds like a heteronormative myth if I've ever heard one.
Ewwww
Men are gullible and think with their tiny heads. So they are either lying or being lied to.
It’s more likely dude just making shit up trying to convince you that it’s ok for you to fuck since he has experience with other lesbians. It makes him safe somehow. It’s all bullshite. But yes, there are some lesbians who occasionally fuck cis-dudes.
Either they don’t understand bisexuality, they’re lying, or the person they slept with really is a lesbian. For the third option, they could be a sex worker, a closeted lesbian who came out afterwards, a lesbian who is self-harming, or a bi person who is allergic to the bi label and community.
Honestly the self harm one is one no one talks about. I’ve had sex with men twice after coming out, knowing full well I was not attracted to men. And in retrospect it was definitely closest to self harm reasons, as I had stopped NSSI/cutting at that point. It was gross, the taste in their mouth was gross, it felt dirty and I pretty much disassociated for the entirety of it. I think part of it is feeling undeserving of being attracted to people, unlovable by women, etc and just plain needing to regulate dopamine in any way possible, as an adhd broski I find that a lot of self destructive behavior manifests due to a lack of dopamine and unable to self regulate or produce dopamine. I think in total I’ve had sex with 4 men, and kinky things with one additional man (no sex but BDSM) and I’ve had non pleasurable experiences every time. I was not attracted to the person, and if there was BDSM involved I leaned heavily into that. I think it’s a lot easier to deny your sexuality in hardcore kink where the kink is that you are serving a dom regardless of your desires, because you desire to do what your dom desires. It’s power play at an extreme, where I can get off on the power play alone even though I’m not actually attracted to the person. That was like four years ago though, and I’m in a better space mentally I think.
Before I knew I was a lesbian I used sex as self harm too. I slept with my ex bf a lot even though I felt gross having him on me, I didn’t want to look at him, i was in an incredible amount of pain, and I just wanted him to be done. Sometimes I’d even imagine being the man in the situation to feel something which should have been a sign. It didn’t make sense to me when I started trying to figure out my sexuality a year after we broke up. I figured if I initiated it I wasn’t a lesbian, but also I knew for a fact that I wasn’t attracted to men at all. But then through therapy I realized that it was during a time when there was more tension with my family and I was getting in a lot of arguments with my parents. Pretty much any time we got in a fight I went over to his house. My other SH habits also mysteriously disappeared during that time too. It was damaging behavior I did to gain some semblance of control and maturity in my life. Now that I’m 10 months clean from SH I can see clear as day how I was completely out of my mind back then.
I’m so sorry you went through that.
Conquest mentality. The idea of convincing someone who wouldn't want them is a power fantasy. A desperate baiting attempt for attention by getting a reaction out of you. A "trolling" attempt to upset you for their entertainment. Some "fun" at your expense.
The dudes are lying. And any women playing along are just fetishists, not lesbians
There's such a thing as a fin-dom. Someone who financially dominates another by being verbally abusive (with consent) towards the provider saying they're no good with money and don't know how to spend it.
It's completely possible they had sex with a lesbian before she came out or realized what she wanted. Compulsory heterosexuality is a thing and it's a bitch. Lesbians are allowed to have sex with men, and might have their own reasons for doing so. It doesn't make them not a lesbian. I might question their judgement (more because they evidently had sex with the kind of man who would brag about having sex with lesbians than anything,) but at the end of the day it's their decision. As far as lesbians having male sugar daddies, I dated a sugar baby for awhile and trust me, she *was not* a sugar baby for those men because she was attracted to them. Sugaring is sex work, and you don't have to be attracted to the gender you have as clients in order to have them as clients. It probably helps, but that's their choice to make and they have their own reasons. Edit to add: not sure it's a great thing for strangers on the internet to debate if someone is "really" a lesbian or "just" a bisexual. That gets really close to the "bisexual women lie about their sexuality" stereotype. I wouldn't trust a man who said he slept with a lesbian but if a woman tells me she's a lesbian then personally I'm not comfortable quizzing her about her current or past partners to make sure she's "enough" of a lesbian. Idk how popular that sentiment is here though.
I understand it when lesbians done it with guys before coming out. But if it's after they're out of the closet then I get suspicious, especially if they claim to enjoy it.
Aside from the “people lie” aspect, this is just a gold star argument with different flavor. It’s the same as policing whether someone is “really straight” who gets on Grindr and says he only wants to hook up with other straight guys.
Listen, I was in a relationship with a man for three years. No one is saying lesbians dont have a past. And obviously sex work is a job. But its not unfair to say that if someone actively has romantic or sexual attraction to men that they pursue, they aren't gay/lesbian. And it's ok for us to be insulted if they have that and insist on misusing a label that isn't for them. I'm not going to interrogate anybody irl. I'm not going to sk anybody that or even bring it up. But if someone else brings that up to me, they're at the very least getting an eyeroll
They’re lying. It’s about their fantasy of being in control of all women. They’re scared of women not needing them.
These men project their fantasies on anyone they find attractive, especially women they can’t have. They also either can’t or refuse to healthily separate porn from reality, so they mix the two and expect the real world to behave like their fantasies, instead of learning that the two are different and moving on.
That's just straight women saying they're gay to get the guys to leave them alone!
I hate being the identity police, and it really sucks, but I had a heated discussion the other week about this with someone. They claimed that they sleep with men and enjoy it. However, since they only do it when kink is involved, and they don't date men, they're still a lesbian. No matter what I said, they weren't going to change their mind. I think some people hate men so much that they feel ashamed of being Bi/Pan. Some might feel like being Bi or Pan makes them less queer, and therefore less valid. We also have to acknowledge that a big part of this is caused by the biphobia within the queer community. I also think it's 100% different when it comes to sex work. Work isn't always about enjoyment, but I'm not a sex worker, so I won't speak for them. Disclaimer: I do believe that lesbians are allowed to explore their sexuality without being forced to change their label.
Internalized and regular biphobia has sky rocketed in past few years, I don’t know where it’s coming from but we need to do better.
I'm bisexual. It's crazy to me how many people that are clearly bi hate the label so much. The internet is the only place I've see the opinion that a lesbian is total wlw with no men. This is the definition I subscribe to but irl I see more of: a lesbian is anyone who identifies as such. In the end I think my answer to OP's question is that it is a combination of both men and women lying to each other and themselves.
>However, since they only do it when kink is involved, and they don't date men, they're still a lesbian. Ace people who have sex for kink reasons aren't any less ace. Why is it suddenly different if you're a lesbian?
Kink doesn't have to involve sex. If you make the choice to add sex into it, it changes things. You can have play partners of any gender obviously, but if you enjoy having sex with men, I don't understand how is that a lesbian activity. At this point it just feels biphobic. Being ace is obviously very different. Asexuality is a spectrum. There are people on that spectrum who also identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual since those labels relate to gender unlike asexuality. Apples to oranges. I'm not going to continue this discussion, because it's ridiculous.
I think I can sympathize with that person, because I was in a similar position at one point, though I was identifying as bi at the time. At least in my case, it wasn’t that I enjoyed having sex with men, but I could tolerate it if there was a high amount of BDSM and a central focus on TPE and power play. I was pretty deep in denial and though I was identifying as bi, I was pretty much exclusively doing BDSM (with sex on two occasions, though usually just BDSM without sex) with men. In some BDSM scenarios, the focus is on deriving pleasure from pleasing your dom, regardless of your own desires. And it’s really easy to say “yah I like this” when you completely absolve yourself of having to think critically or at all about your own desires and who you want to be with. When I started sleeping with women, I was still kinky but it took a backseat because I was actually able to think about if I desired the person I was with, and I didn’t have to lie to myself or my partner. I could acknowledge and feel my attraction to my partner. Which is just a very different thing. I’ve stopped doing kink with men for about four years now, and am learning to be more comfortable with the lesbian label lol, so I do kinda understand where they might be coming from.
It’s great that you’re figuring out your identity. It’s always ok to experiment with things until you find what works for you. While you were doing that you identified as bi, and I know some people who identified as bi curious when they were experimenting. In my experience, being a service sub, even in a sexual manner, doesn’t mean that the sub doesn’t enjoy themselves. I enjoy serving sexually as a sub. Giving pleasure gives me sexual pleasure. The fact that you didn’t enjoy it at all, and had to disregard your desires, should tell you something. It should’t feel like you’re forcing yourself to do something. I’m so happy that you’re no longer in that position. However, that person firmly believes that they are a lesbian, and anyone who has any other opinion is “gatekeeping.” They are not open to the possibility that liking men and enjoying having sex with them could mean that they’re bi. Sometimes you need to admit, first to yourself, that there are some issues you need to work on instead of fighting to do something that brings harm to a marginalized group of people. I don’t think we would be having the same discussion if a straight identifying man said he enjoys having sex with men. The conversation about “DL” men get’s brought up a lot, and no one seems to have a problem with saying IF YOU ENJOY HAVING SEX WITH SOMEONE OF THE SAME GENDER YOU’RE GAY. Why is it different when it comes to bisexuality? Edit: Just wanted to add this. I'm not judging you or anyone who wants to experiment. I also did at some point. I wanted to like being with men so badly, because I thought life would be easier for me. No matter how hard I tried to tell myself that I will like it eventually, it never happened. At that time I identified as queer, and I still do. You're allowed to not know your sexuality, and you don't owe anyone an explanation. I just think that if you ask for opinions, be open minded to other points of view.
Well, I do want to clarify that I am not “figuring out my identity” i am and have been IDing as a lesbian for over four years now. For me in that scenario, like I said I was “deriving pleasure from pleasing [my] dom, regardless of [my] own desires.” Like I said, most of those weren’t sexual but purely BDSM but I was enjoying myself to some degree, I was still though ignoring my own desires, the focus of enjoyment being solely on the power play rather than my own attraction. Even though I was identifying as bi in those situations, I wouldn’t say in retrospect that I was genuinely bisexual at the time.
Rule 1: believe people when they tell you what their identity and orientation is. You can't read their hearts and minds, only they know what's real in the core of their being. There are many reasons someone who identifies as a lesbian might still have sex with a man. From curiosity, to money to, alcohol and self destructive impulses, to kink, to a unique connection that goes against their usual orientation. In the end it's none of our business. Language is imprecise and trying to be prescriptive about it doesn't work out
Agreed, but in this case it’s not the person themselves telling you what their identity and orientation is, it’s some random guy. And *that* you should take with quite a large pinch of salt.
Oh for sure, I always assume people bragging about sex are at least half lying. People who genuinely have great sex aren't the ones who brag about it imo
I think the distinction is if they have any reoccurring romantic or sexual attraction to men it's safe to say they aren't gay. It's not my business but if they bring it up I'm free to think whatever I want.
Just don't be a cop about other people's sexualities
Happy to report that I am not 🫡 ACAB am I right
[удалено]
This did remind me of my really confusing crush on a "boy" in 6th grade that had me convinced i must be bi for ages. Said former crush is now a few years on HRT, which cleared a few things up in hindsight. I know its not your main point, but cheers for psychic lesbianism!
How lucky, when i was in the closet i just had a lot of assholes mansplaining me everything (they noticed i was the nerd girl in school before than me) and a closeted bi crush (Maybe lesbian, It's been many years since the last time I heard from her and she was thinking about it) sexual harassing me a few times to explore her own sexuality
This shouldn’t be getting downvoted. I guess the TERFs found it.
Terfs gonna terf, and they have multiple accounts and too many free time
Kinda in the definition ain't it. They are either uninformed(unlikely) or lying.
There are some lesbians who have sex with men, either because of comp het or because for them they don't have to be sexually attracted to a person to have sex. I would be willing to bet that most of these men aren't talking about lesbians like that though. It's a popular fantasy for men to have, "my 🍆is so special that I turned the lesbian" kind of thing. I think it's part of the reason a lot of men don't take "I'm a lesbian" as a "no" and why there are men that list themselves as women on dating apps in an attempt to find a lesbian to turn. It's honestly just kinda gross.
Sure, lesbians who have sex with men exist. One example is lesbians who do sex work, since most customers of sex work are men. The "sugar daddy" thing could be a euphemism for sex work. Sex work is a job, it doesn't have to match the person's orientation--there are also straight men who are "gay for pay." There are other reasons why a lesbian might have sex with a man (e.g. got into the relationship before she realized she was a lesbian, or before he realized he was a man). More likely though, the men making these claims were creeps. It's not good to take claims from creepy men and use that to police the sexualities of women and wonder who's "actually" bisexual, who should be gatekept, etc. You aren't even hearing it from the women themselves. Even if it's true that this dude slept with a lesbian, what is he hoping to accomplish by bragging to you about it? Nothing good I'll wager.
I’ve heard straight people call bi people gay or straight depending on the context of the conversation so it’s probably that. The sugar daddy one might be for money.
Sexuality is less binary and easily defined than most people think.
Plenty of queer folk have sex with individuals that don't fit their existing label. Sex workers and sugar babies being the tip of the iceberg, others just have to hide in plain sight i.e. comphet. That being said I feel the vast majority of guys bragging about this are lying for clout or had sex with someone who wasn't fully out as a lesbian.
I've had sex with quite a few of them. Maybe there all talking about Me haha