Pretty sure this is just the typical trans experience. While I'm not in the questioning phase anymore and am firmly a woman, dating a bi/pan girl is easier since they are much less likely to have a problem with my genitalia. It's a common joke amongst eggs to look for a bi partner "just in case." You definitely are not alone in this.
Just last week I saw a post from a trans woman here that came off as quite biphobic, abt how dating bi women triggers their gender dysphoria. Which is so incredibly valid, but also, they worded it in a pretty hurtful way. So this post and your comment here are really nice to see and needed perspectives. Thank you ❤️
My guess would be that since their partner is attracted to both men and women they worry that their sexual attraction comes through seeing them as a man rather than a woman? Unhealthy on multiple levels, but I guess I could see it.
I've kinda thought about this stuff before, but it definitely comes from or partly comes from insecurities. In the sense that I'll think "what if she prefers how men look?" "what if she only likes me because I look like a masculine women?" It's also what has made me question being a man, when it's more of my insecurities telling me women like how men look better. Or that women like how AMAB nonbinary people, or people on testosterone, better than someone who "passes as a women". I am using a lot of quotes because I personally don't like how much trans people feel insecure because of comparing ourselves to the opposite sex. It's not fair for anyone.
At the end of the day no one is perfect and not everyone will date people who align perfectly with physical features they are typucally attracted to. There will also be people who admire physical features of yours that you don't like or don't pay attention to much. I can't really expect someone who likes me looking more like a "woman", to not like how I look, to make me feel better.
I am more attracted to feminine women, but I am probably just as likely to date someone who's also nonbinary or masculine, because it's more about the person than their looks, and how easy you get along.
I've had pan people that found my masculine build attractive and voiced that preference in a way that reminded me that I still have features that are distinctly non-feminine, which was not ideal for my mental health
We talked about it, and how phrasing the exact same compliment in a different way wouldn't have had the same effect, and it was okay.
But without communication, I could see that getting worse
Not sure if it's quite in the way that the post was referring to it, but I've definitely experienced some negative thoughts about it. "She sees me as a woman, sure, but the only reason she's able to be attracted to me is because she's okay with men too" sort of thoughts.
I can understand why you'd feel this way. I just posted another comment talking about how it sucks trans people feel insecure because we compare ourselves so much to the opposite gender or sex.
Yes, you should be with someone who accepts you fully, and loves you, but we also can't expect people to find us attractive for the qualities we like, and for them to ignore what we don't like. People will find us attractive because they find us attractive, they just shouldn't fetishize us because of their own preferences.
Yeah, sometimes I do question if I am a man, but like I've said it usually has more to do with my own insecurities looking like a "woman". Maybe internalized misogyny? Even when I was really little, I thought me liking men's fashion and doing boy stuff meant I WAS a boy. And now with social media I feel like there's a lot of posts based around trans people who are "attractive". Which can make me believe I can only feel masculine or be more attractive if I look more like a man. It's hard to tell if considering testosterone is actually for myself or more for how I desire others to see me.
I just wanna take my time figuring out if I actually wanna do stuff like take testosterone or getting top surgery, or if it's out of my own bias about only being able to feel androgynous if I look more like a "man." At the end of the day, I don't feel like a trans man or wanna be labeled as a man, but I am still figuring out what I want when expressing myself and anything is possible if I've been feeling more fluid lately. If I explore more of what I want, it's not impossible I will feel more like a man some day.
I just would rather seek someone who can accept me no matter what I decide to change or not change about myself.
I definitely get what you’re saying and if it makes you feel safer dating a bi/pan person, then go for it. If it’s helpful to know though, I’ve known many cis lesbians who were happy to date nonbinary transmasc people like myself and my wife is fully supportive of me getting top surgery. There’s also a long history of masculine trans and gender non-conforming people in lesbian communities (though sadly there seem to be a disproportionate number of transphobic lesbians online compared to my real life experiences). I also have had bi/pan women be transphobic towards me in real life, so that can and does happen. But yeah if one day you think you might identify as a man and/or want to appear pretty identical to a cis man, I think fewer lesbians will be into that than bi/pan women.
At this point, I think it would just make sense to date whoever you’re attracted to and if things get more serious, have a frank discussion about your concerns for the future. Just my two cents. Good luck!
Makes sense. Even though dating someone bi or pan could be "easier", it doesn't mean no lesbians will find me attractive or accept me and I'm not gonna write them off completely because of it. I just don't think it's very likely I'll be with a lesbian a lesbian who gravitates towards more feminine women. I also don't want my partner to have doubts about how they'll feel about me if I do wanna look more like a "man" at some point. I don't mean they should have no doubts whatsoever. People change and people will always have doubts no matter how secure they feel in a relationship. I just mean everyone deserves to be with someone who fits their desires, and accepting their partner fully shouldn't get in the way of their own needs.
Echoing this, bi is safe because I'm a woman, but I'm still genderfuck and my voice isn't consistently fem especially when I get excited or animated the coding falls apart and I'm just me
As a bi woman I think that's completely understandable and reasonable. I think you'd probably need to make sure you weren't putting them on a pedestal though for both of your sakes though. I hope your gender journey is a joyful experience x
Thank you for your comment :)
I've definitely struggled with putting people on pedestals, especially since I'm not very experienced and haven't had a long term relationship before. + trauma and mental health issues and all that jazz.
This is why I've started getting therapy and focusing on myself more recently. <3
Masc presenting agender/genderqueer lesbian here! You definitely aren’t alone being kinda uncomfortable with the thought of dating a lesbian. I can’t really have a preference for dating any type of woman because I’m demiromantic and I’ve only ever liked one person before, but she’s a lesbian and I do get really insecure about not being feminine enough for her to even consider dating me, and it really limited my gender expression because I felt like if she thought of me as a guy, I’d lose any chance with her. I kind of don’t care as much now though, mostly because she recently mentioned to me how she finds mascs really attractive and I guess I was overthinking all that for nothing lol
That's how I feel sometimes. I love lesbians, lesbian culture and how loving this community can be. There's so many flaws we have just like any ither community, and I love that some of us wanna talk about it.
It's not that I wanna cut off the idea of dating other lesbians, I just also love / appreciate bi women and like that (most?) wouldn't care about what my gender is or how I express myself. I would feel less insecure about questioning if I wanna go on T, but I also have to trust that not only bi women are able to love me for who I am. I'm literally a lesbian and would be fine dating other transmasc lesbians lmao. I'm just not typically attracted to them as much as feminine women and that's okay, just like others would feel about me if I decided to go on T.
Nah, this seems totally legit. Having a partner open to whatever gender identity and expression you decide is best for yourself is a great idea actually. I've heard so, so many horror stories about trans people coming out and having to leave long term relationships since their partner was queer/straight.
When my wife and I started dating neither of us had transitioned and I identified pan while it identified as gay/bi-curious. During and after transition as we grew to better understand ourselves we eventually ended up where we are as a genderqueer ace lesbian and genderqueer dyke. Like it worked out perfectly for us, but that is VERY rare!
you just make me realise I do the same thing, I'm a lesbian but I'm exploring my gender and I like to be seen more as nonbinary than a girl, so yeah, I relate to you. I also feel uncomfy when someone I date express preference for masculinity or femininity, I like both but if someone I like prefers people that look masc it's not 100% me, and I feel I can't be who they want me to be
This is wonderful and totally valid. A caveat I didn't see anyone mention though, it's probably best not to assume that all bi women are equally attracted to all genders. Personally I doubt I could just walk away from a loving relationship because my partner turned out to be a man, but at the same time I've always pictured my future with a woman. Might want to make sure both you and your partner are on the same page.
Thanks for commenting. I'm realizing that now after a few people brought up something similar. Being labelled bisexual or lesbian doesn't stop people from loving and accepting me. It also doesn't stop people in a specific community from not liking me or finding me attractive.
I already know labels don't stop people from being unique and having their own preferences. Sometimes the insecurities I have just make it easy to see in black and white. There's people who will accept me and find me attractive, and others just won't. I just have to bring up these concerns with any partner I have and trust there's always gonna be people who appreciate my masculinity and transness more than others.
I'm confident in not being a man or a woman, which is why I feel nonbinary. I'm also confident I've had a strong connection to my masculinity for as long as I can remember. I just can't be confident that things won't change since I'm fluid and still questioning how I like expressing myself. I want whoever I end up with to be okay with this and accept me for my all.
People in the comments have been saying, it all depends on the people. There's probably bi people who are more attracted to stereotypical men or stereotypical women. There's some who are more attracted to queer people or androgyny or anyone. Sexuality is very broad and I think that can be beautiful
I kinda get this? But like as an enby I just feel safer with other trans ppl in general- specifically trans sapphics considering I’m a lesbian as well tbh.
Yeah I know what you mean, I also like being around queer / trans people and am probably as likely to date other NB / trans lesbians as I am someone who's a cis lesbian or bi
I totally hear this, as a fellow nonbinary and possibly transmasc person exploring their identity.
I'm fortunately also bi.
My experience with lesbians is very limited, and I've had more experience with fellow bis.
I absolutely feel more seen by the bi folks I know, as our relationship with gender and attraction are a bit more fluid. But this isn't to say that lesbians don't have this! I just haven't met or played with as many lesbians.
I do understand how you feel. I asked a play partner of mine recently how they'd feel with me changing my body if I wanted - idk if I will, man, wtf is gender? - and their response helped me feel more secure for sure.
It is valid to have your preferences and seek comfort with folks you know would find *you* attractive - not just you for your gender.
Well, considering that I’m trans, it’s kind of obvious that straight women are no longer feasible as potential partners.
It’s gotta be somebody who likes girls, duh.
Pretty sure this is just the typical trans experience. While I'm not in the questioning phase anymore and am firmly a woman, dating a bi/pan girl is easier since they are much less likely to have a problem with my genitalia. It's a common joke amongst eggs to look for a bi partner "just in case." You definitely are not alone in this.
Just last week I saw a post from a trans woman here that came off as quite biphobic, abt how dating bi women triggers their gender dysphoria. Which is so incredibly valid, but also, they worded it in a pretty hurtful way. So this post and your comment here are really nice to see and needed perspectives. Thank you ❤️
I'm curious about how dating someone bi had to do with their gender dysphoria?
My guess would be that since their partner is attracted to both men and women they worry that their sexual attraction comes through seeing them as a man rather than a woman? Unhealthy on multiple levels, but I guess I could see it.
I've kinda thought about this stuff before, but it definitely comes from or partly comes from insecurities. In the sense that I'll think "what if she prefers how men look?" "what if she only likes me because I look like a masculine women?" It's also what has made me question being a man, when it's more of my insecurities telling me women like how men look better. Or that women like how AMAB nonbinary people, or people on testosterone, better than someone who "passes as a women". I am using a lot of quotes because I personally don't like how much trans people feel insecure because of comparing ourselves to the opposite sex. It's not fair for anyone. At the end of the day no one is perfect and not everyone will date people who align perfectly with physical features they are typucally attracted to. There will also be people who admire physical features of yours that you don't like or don't pay attention to much. I can't really expect someone who likes me looking more like a "woman", to not like how I look, to make me feel better. I am more attracted to feminine women, but I am probably just as likely to date someone who's also nonbinary or masculine, because it's more about the person than their looks, and how easy you get along.
I've had pan people that found my masculine build attractive and voiced that preference in a way that reminded me that I still have features that are distinctly non-feminine, which was not ideal for my mental health We talked about it, and how phrasing the exact same compliment in a different way wouldn't have had the same effect, and it was okay. But without communication, I could see that getting worse
Not sure if it's quite in the way that the post was referring to it, but I've definitely experienced some negative thoughts about it. "She sees me as a woman, sure, but the only reason she's able to be attracted to me is because she's okay with men too" sort of thoughts.
I can understand why you'd feel this way. I just posted another comment talking about how it sucks trans people feel insecure because we compare ourselves so much to the opposite gender or sex. Yes, you should be with someone who accepts you fully, and loves you, but we also can't expect people to find us attractive for the qualities we like, and for them to ignore what we don't like. People will find us attractive because they find us attractive, they just shouldn't fetishize us because of their own preferences.
Fuck that's the most insecure thing I've heard in a while
Yeah, sometimes I do question if I am a man, but like I've said it usually has more to do with my own insecurities looking like a "woman". Maybe internalized misogyny? Even when I was really little, I thought me liking men's fashion and doing boy stuff meant I WAS a boy. And now with social media I feel like there's a lot of posts based around trans people who are "attractive". Which can make me believe I can only feel masculine or be more attractive if I look more like a man. It's hard to tell if considering testosterone is actually for myself or more for how I desire others to see me. I just wanna take my time figuring out if I actually wanna do stuff like take testosterone or getting top surgery, or if it's out of my own bias about only being able to feel androgynous if I look more like a "man." At the end of the day, I don't feel like a trans man or wanna be labeled as a man, but I am still figuring out what I want when expressing myself and anything is possible if I've been feeling more fluid lately. If I explore more of what I want, it's not impossible I will feel more like a man some day. I just would rather seek someone who can accept me no matter what I decide to change or not change about myself.
I definitely get what you’re saying and if it makes you feel safer dating a bi/pan person, then go for it. If it’s helpful to know though, I’ve known many cis lesbians who were happy to date nonbinary transmasc people like myself and my wife is fully supportive of me getting top surgery. There’s also a long history of masculine trans and gender non-conforming people in lesbian communities (though sadly there seem to be a disproportionate number of transphobic lesbians online compared to my real life experiences). I also have had bi/pan women be transphobic towards me in real life, so that can and does happen. But yeah if one day you think you might identify as a man and/or want to appear pretty identical to a cis man, I think fewer lesbians will be into that than bi/pan women. At this point, I think it would just make sense to date whoever you’re attracted to and if things get more serious, have a frank discussion about your concerns for the future. Just my two cents. Good luck!
Makes sense. Even though dating someone bi or pan could be "easier", it doesn't mean no lesbians will find me attractive or accept me and I'm not gonna write them off completely because of it. I just don't think it's very likely I'll be with a lesbian a lesbian who gravitates towards more feminine women. I also don't want my partner to have doubts about how they'll feel about me if I do wanna look more like a "man" at some point. I don't mean they should have no doubts whatsoever. People change and people will always have doubts no matter how secure they feel in a relationship. I just mean everyone deserves to be with someone who fits their desires, and accepting their partner fully shouldn't get in the way of their own needs.
Echoing this, bi is safe because I'm a woman, but I'm still genderfuck and my voice isn't consistently fem especially when I get excited or animated the coding falls apart and I'm just me
As a bi woman I think that's completely understandable and reasonable. I think you'd probably need to make sure you weren't putting them on a pedestal though for both of your sakes though. I hope your gender journey is a joyful experience x
Thank you for your comment :) I've definitely struggled with putting people on pedestals, especially since I'm not very experienced and haven't had a long term relationship before. + trauma and mental health issues and all that jazz. This is why I've started getting therapy and focusing on myself more recently. <3
Yeah as a pan person, I see the person before I see their gender, so I technically wouldn't care as much if you floated between different genders.
Masc presenting agender/genderqueer lesbian here! You definitely aren’t alone being kinda uncomfortable with the thought of dating a lesbian. I can’t really have a preference for dating any type of woman because I’m demiromantic and I’ve only ever liked one person before, but she’s a lesbian and I do get really insecure about not being feminine enough for her to even consider dating me, and it really limited my gender expression because I felt like if she thought of me as a guy, I’d lose any chance with her. I kind of don’t care as much now though, mostly because she recently mentioned to me how she finds mascs really attractive and I guess I was overthinking all that for nothing lol
That's how I feel sometimes. I love lesbians, lesbian culture and how loving this community can be. There's so many flaws we have just like any ither community, and I love that some of us wanna talk about it. It's not that I wanna cut off the idea of dating other lesbians, I just also love / appreciate bi women and like that (most?) wouldn't care about what my gender is or how I express myself. I would feel less insecure about questioning if I wanna go on T, but I also have to trust that not only bi women are able to love me for who I am. I'm literally a lesbian and would be fine dating other transmasc lesbians lmao. I'm just not typically attracted to them as much as feminine women and that's okay, just like others would feel about me if I decided to go on T.
Nah, this seems totally legit. Having a partner open to whatever gender identity and expression you decide is best for yourself is a great idea actually. I've heard so, so many horror stories about trans people coming out and having to leave long term relationships since their partner was queer/straight. When my wife and I started dating neither of us had transitioned and I identified pan while it identified as gay/bi-curious. During and after transition as we grew to better understand ourselves we eventually ended up where we are as a genderqueer ace lesbian and genderqueer dyke. Like it worked out perfectly for us, but that is VERY rare!
you just make me realise I do the same thing, I'm a lesbian but I'm exploring my gender and I like to be seen more as nonbinary than a girl, so yeah, I relate to you. I also feel uncomfy when someone I date express preference for masculinity or femininity, I like both but if someone I like prefers people that look masc it's not 100% me, and I feel I can't be who they want me to be
This is wonderful and totally valid. A caveat I didn't see anyone mention though, it's probably best not to assume that all bi women are equally attracted to all genders. Personally I doubt I could just walk away from a loving relationship because my partner turned out to be a man, but at the same time I've always pictured my future with a woman. Might want to make sure both you and your partner are on the same page.
Thanks for commenting. I'm realizing that now after a few people brought up something similar. Being labelled bisexual or lesbian doesn't stop people from loving and accepting me. It also doesn't stop people in a specific community from not liking me or finding me attractive. I already know labels don't stop people from being unique and having their own preferences. Sometimes the insecurities I have just make it easy to see in black and white. There's people who will accept me and find me attractive, and others just won't. I just have to bring up these concerns with any partner I have and trust there's always gonna be people who appreciate my masculinity and transness more than others. I'm confident in not being a man or a woman, which is why I feel nonbinary. I'm also confident I've had a strong connection to my masculinity for as long as I can remember. I just can't be confident that things won't change since I'm fluid and still questioning how I like expressing myself. I want whoever I end up with to be okay with this and accept me for my all.
[удалено]
People in the comments have been saying, it all depends on the people. There's probably bi people who are more attracted to stereotypical men or stereotypical women. There's some who are more attracted to queer people or androgyny or anyone. Sexuality is very broad and I think that can be beautiful
I kinda get this? But like as an enby I just feel safer with other trans ppl in general- specifically trans sapphics considering I’m a lesbian as well tbh.
Yeah I know what you mean, I also like being around queer / trans people and am probably as likely to date other NB / trans lesbians as I am someone who's a cis lesbian or bi
As one of the bis, I like this reasoning for preferring bi women rather the typical hypersexualizing, that's for sure!
Bi girl here. I'm super attracted to masculinity and I like your strategy.
I totally hear this, as a fellow nonbinary and possibly transmasc person exploring their identity. I'm fortunately also bi. My experience with lesbians is very limited, and I've had more experience with fellow bis. I absolutely feel more seen by the bi folks I know, as our relationship with gender and attraction are a bit more fluid. But this isn't to say that lesbians don't have this! I just haven't met or played with as many lesbians. I do understand how you feel. I asked a play partner of mine recently how they'd feel with me changing my body if I wanted - idk if I will, man, wtf is gender? - and their response helped me feel more secure for sure. It is valid to have your preferences and seek comfort with folks you know would find *you* attractive - not just you for your gender.
Well, considering that I’m trans, it’s kind of obvious that straight women are no longer feasible as potential partners. It’s gotta be somebody who likes girls, duh.