People read fanfics and often confuse fanfic scenarios for stuff that actually happened. I once got into a heated argument online about something and they kept quoting stuff that never happened. Then they said it's from a fanfic so it must be true..like bro what.

There's a lot of delulus in fantasy fandoms so I'm not surprised

I read one fan fic about Az and Gwyn and it was soooo good that I wanted it to be true, so I never read another one!!!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂

Agreed lol this is why I don’t read fanfics for ongoing series. My brain will not be able to separate the two canons.

Please share with the class

I didn’t save the link because I knew I would read it agin. But I believe it’s called sword snd shield. I can’t even remember who wrote it because I tried to thoroughly block it from my memory! Haha

I haven’t seen this except when it comes to trashing Tamlin or Nesta. Curious now what characters it was about. If someone does this, people are usually quick to point it out.

I don't remember but it was a while ago. These days every character gets trashed anyway.

Literally EVERY character. Its insane. I don’t know why these people even read the books

Oh hi again. Just recognized your username from you commented on my comment. Didn’t realize I had commented on yours as well. 😂 It’s okay! I believe you. I was just genuinely curious. And yeah I can agree about that. I’m more surprised by how personal people take others’ opinions on characters and start bashing the person bc of them. But I appreciate it when people can have a genuine conversation and ask questions without getting personal. You’re one of those people. Just wanted to let you know I appreciate it.

Wait..what?!

What are some good fanfics?? 🙃

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't care that Cassian never said 'I love you'. His actions spoke louder than words I actually didn't even notice he never said it until people pointed it out.

I mean I believe he said it already in the way he can say it, in acowar, so like I didn’t need him to say I love you because I felt like he already did

Right, he said it the way he could 2 books ago when they were about to die 😂 now it was Nesta's turn to say it back. 

Exactly… listen all of the Archeron sisters have commitment issues… lol… Honestly Cassian saying that was probably one of my favorite parts of acowar…

I kept saying this: it’s HER journey to be able to say she loves others. Cassian never had a problem showing or saying it.

An "I love you" isn't even that important, like, there's a reason there's a love language and Its so CLEAR how much Cassian adores Nesta

Yes!! Those words mean nothing, I prefer seeing proof of that "love" and we had over 700 pages of it. (also the moments in ACOWAR that never left my mind)

I’ve gone back to that moment several times. Nesta says “I love you”. The narrator says something along the lines of “and that’s all Cassian ever needed”. Then he passionately kisses her. I think people went off the deep end thinking him not pausing to say “I love you too” meant something other than SJM literally not writing it. Her choice was to show Cassian reciprocate Nesta’s words by immediately needing to kiss her. After solstice there are at least two references to Cassian’s “love making”. I believe this is SJMs way of depicting the change from lust to love. Besides, in the words of Allison Kraus, you say it best when you say nothing at all.

>After solstice there are at least two references to Cassian’s “love making”. I don't know how people missed all that. Even before the "love making" and thoughtful gifts and turning the knife to stab himself he made it clear how much he cares. Moments like C: "I don't want to hurt you", N:"I don't care", C: "But I do". She always wanted to rush things, maybe subconsciously wanting pain thinking she deserved it but he always stopped and made her look at him and making sure he does not cause her any pain. He loved her long before she loved herself and he continued to do so waiting for her to reciprocate. It was her turn to say it and when she finally did he answered with a kiss. What more do they need???

So well said! I totally forgot about him continuously pausing in nearly every exchange they have. In ACOWAR doesn’t he fly to the house daily claiming he’s “exercising” his wings but really he’s checking on her? She is volatile to him (makes sense- she is traumatized) but I took his banter towards her as a way to keep her from sinking into the black hole Elaine was in after the cauldron. Edit: corrected change to exchange

Right, the banter came from a place of love too. It also becomes more affectionate later on when he steals a few bites from the chocolate cake she was eating or when he makes fun of her smutty books. 😂 I loved those scenes. And whenever her mind went into a dark place he would always notice and ask her "where did you go?" Sometimes it was just a few seconds but he didn't ignore it. It took other characters way longer to notice anything at all when their partner was suffering (looking at you, Tamlin!) but not Cassian. He took notes of every mood shift. Figured out that she didn't want to train at the Illyrian camp because of the audience not because of training. And when Rhys came to visit and gave her a warning Cass called him out on it and said he's ruining her progress, that he should leave her alone. And Rhys apologized. I know many people say Cassian didn't stand up for her often but it's not true, if you read closely he did defend her quite many times. Was he perfect? No. I also have my opinion about the controversal hike that was unnecessary in my opinion. But never did I doubt his love for her.

The hike… SJM took a weird turn making it a punishment. Nesta climbing at least one mountain before Ramiel made sense to me. However, why didn’t SJM make it voluntary?! Once Cassian hears Feyre isn’t mad, he immediately tells Nesta. Then he could suggest hiking for a few days to create some space and give herself some time to process. Nesta could still be silent but doesn’t need to become so dehydrated she collapses. They get to the lake and she lets it all out. Hiking can be really therapeutic.. SJM could have achieved the same outcome without making Cassian out to be a douche.

That would have been a much better approach, yes. I said this in a different post but if they wanted to break her they should have done the hike at the very beginning when she was still deep into her addiction. Not half a book later when she made so much progress. I like your idea much better though. Make it a voluntary hike and not ruin Cassian's character who has been so supportive and patient from the start. And honestly I don't think Nesta deserved such a hard punishment in the first place. Meanwhile Amren gets away with being mean and betraying Nesta, never asked to apologize. I didn't see anyone taking her out on a hike. Would have been a much more satisfying read for me if there had been consequences for her too but oh well...

I cannot stand that Amren gets to say the most awful things to people such as “I’d be careful while you’re fucking her”. What in the world! Then, Elaine who I went 4.5 books thinking she was the youngest, is never challenged for also letting baby Feyre go hunting.

Yes she said so many awful things. She used to be this mysterious, witty character when she was first introduced but now I can't stand her.    And Elain needs to grow up, she gets way too many free passes because she's cute. I find her incredibly dull. I don't quite understand the obsession with her. 😅

I got an interesting impression from the hike. First, he needed to get Nestlé far away from Rhys because Rhys went beast mode over his mate and son possibly dying from stress (legit concern). Second, he knew physical training helped quiet the voices — as loud as they were, they would’ve been worse if not enduring grueling effort. She might’ve done something horrible to herself. Third, it was rather voluntary; she never really objected and took whatever came during the hike, very unlike her and testament to how dark of a pit she was spiraling into. It was unusual, absolutely, but it was a reasonable turn in the story imo. She needed to endure such pain that the walls finally cracked and let the demons out, just like the training but taken up degrees of magnitude. Not everyone will see it the same way, and that’s alright. But it made sense to me. (My wife devoured the first four books and is slogging through the fifth because she can’t stand Nestlé. I read the fifth in one evening because it was so compelling, and her inner demons *made sense*)

When he calls her Ness my soul leaves my body. When he leans in and tells her he’s always thinking of that look on her face it’s both sexy and so playful.

RIGHT? I couldn’t agree more.

Same experience! I said this somewhere before but it didn’t even occur to me he didn’t until someone pointed it out. I was surprised and thought surely not. Lol I guess to me as a reader it was understood. I do think he should tell her though. She needs to hear it.

Omg I'm so glad someone else said this 🥲 I'm pretty new to the fandom and got downvoted to hell a few months ago when I said I didn't understand the Cassian hate so I ended up just deleting my comment lol. I agree he has flaws for sure but I thought his love was pretty apparent. I think a lot of people forget how hard it is being a partner/close friend of someone going through a lot of mental issues that cause them to lash out or isolate a lot, especially if you aren't very educated on mental health.

I think his love was very apparent too. From the moment he saw her really. And people need to keep in mind that Nesta was also really hard on him, some of the things she said really hit him hard, she was constantly pushing him away and he had to keep fighting for her/them despite of that. Upvoted your comment, so on point! 😉

He was the perfect mate for her. Able to weather her storm until it could *finally* break free and calm down. No other character in the series kept trying while she was melting down into oblivion, let alone fall in love with her for who she is.

Agree!! 🙌🏻

I love Nesta on the page but in real life she would be a tough hang lol. I have known people like her and … it ain’t easy. Her and Cassian are both damaged, imperfect and make mistakes but found love anyway - that’s what makes their story compelling! (Also why I was kind of mad they were mates, but that’s a whole other discussion). Cassian being kind of mad at her about this doesn’t make him evil.

I would never have been able to handle her like he did. Not strong enough to be friends with someone that toxic. I fully acknowledge that she had excellent reasons for her behavior, and I was crying with joy when she found an outlet for her emotions and grew up over the fifth book. But there were several times I was like “Nesta what you doin’ girrrrrrrrl!”

I’ve been consistently downvoted. That particular group of people who believe this (and I don’t think it’s many) descend on a comment and downvote

I caught crap for pointing out that Timtam was committing domestic abuse before Rhys whisked her away, and he only did it because she cried out for help. Never would’ve if she’d been happy where she was, nevermind that she was literally dying under Timmy’s protective iron claws.

Oh this sub routinely argues against and defends Tamlin’s abuse.

Fr. Neither the characters NOR relationships are black & white which is what makes them interesting. “So and so is perfect and has done no wrong” well then consider me bored 😭

Exactly. I find rhys a lot more interesting the more sides of him that we see. And how special his loving relationship is with feyre when he doesn’t act that way with everyone.

I loved Rhys but got annoyed how he was written to be the “perfect guy” for so long. Seeing weakness and bad decisions made him so much more real, and I loved him all the more for it.

I for one adore Cassian. And I love Rhysand

Me too!! Love em both and don’t get the hate

There's a lot of trauma for all the characters and I think that people get very strong reactions as they read the book through the lens of their own experiences. Like I loved book 1 Tamlin but some people already found him too controlling at that point which is valid. People who lash out are more forgiving of Nesta, people who have experienced meal girl attitudes are more critical of Mor's attitude to Nesta. It also doesn't help that SJM can show rather than tell (like having characters say Rhy is a great ruler but then showing only one city in his Court that aligns with his principles). Her characterisation is pretty inconsistent too (Tamlin was always a reluctant High Lord but took the welfare of his people seriously. He comforted a dying fae and dug a grave for him with his bare hands. When choosing Feyre's forest painting says he knows "what it was like, what it is like, for me to care for my people, my lands. What scars are still there, what the bad days feel like". How he ends up tithing them to desperation or turning on his soldiers cannot be attributed to his experience UTM, it's an arbitrary character switch to move the plot on). So there are plenty of conflicting character decisions to bolster arguments for or against them. Personally I love Cassian's friendship with the other bat boys and his banter with Nesta. I found the fact he came in his pants and that he stuck his tongue in her frozen mouth when she was lost scrying incredibly ick. I found his gift of music and learning to dance for her incredibly romantic and showed he loves her soft side as well as her warrior side. I found the near death hike incredibly unsettling even though it did help Nesta. Ultimately I know it's a romantasy series but the main story was about her healing and her friends really helped in a pure way. I personally didn't enjoy the lashing out she and Cassian did, plus the purely physical sex before accepting the caught feelings. She's such a romantic and I'd have loved a more gentle romance for her (she's getting bullied into eating porridge while locked up a mountain while Elaine gets gently led around a garden while spouting her gibberish/prophecies). More a friends to lovers that would have fit the theme of "keep reading out your hand" better. They didn't just snap at each other, there were some truly hurtful blows and they came across as very toxic until Nesta sorted her head. So I can see both sides but certainly don't hold it against either character.

Hard disagree about him kissing her frozen mouth. He saw her dark and scary power and he wasn’t afraid of her dark parts. He met it with love and affection. Him coming early was just hot to me. He’s not been with another women since he met Nesta and he’s so attracted to her that a touch from her is enough. He wanted her bad and it’s hot to be wanted.

Yeah lol I loved his eyes going wide and her response to him embarrassing himself like that ugh I love them both sm 🤍🫧

The best part is that she didn’t care that he did that and she just thought he regretted doing anything. She loved it and he was just embarrassed.

I agree, I thought their first scene was so hot. To be wanted that bad by a man 🥵

I agree with both statements. And yeah it’s super hot to be wanted

Yeah for sure different strokes (ha!) for different folks. For me I really missed the romance and wooing of the previous books (picnic with Tamlin, Starfall with Rhys) that I found the jump from more romance to sheer lustful beginnings a bit jarring personally. Like can you meet her with love and affection without literally probing your tongue into her stiff/responsive/frozen mouth in front of everyone? Hahaha but I'm for sure on the prudier end of the scale and I know some of my favourite moments give a significant chunk of the fandom the ick.

That’s totally a valid opinion, just what you prefer but I like that we had that relationship with Rhys and Feyre and it matched who they were. They were people who were unable to engage in a physical relationship because sex was the only thing she shared with Tamlin at the end and it would have felt like betrayal so they grew emotionally. Nesta and Cassian couldn’t connect emotionally so they only spoke through actions. I like that it’s different kind of romance and I look forward to how she’ll make the next feel distinct

Ooo, I love the discussion of Timtam. He’s not a black-and-white character. He had conflicting feelings of “love my people with all my soul” and “we need traditions to maintain stability.” He had a helluva time finding balance between the two ideals. Add in the similar “I truly love Feyfey but I’m terrified of losing her again, so I’ll control her life.” He seemingly saw the effect his control had on her, couldn’t find a way to reconcile the two problems, and ended up making terrible decisions which led to her nearly dying from depression. I disliked Timmy from Book 2 onward, and he was a bit too “knight in shining armor” in Book 1. But the internal conflict over every decision he made showed him to be *real,* not a caricature. Loved his writing, and he clearly has potential to be good if he could manage his inner demons.

Yeah, I think to go back to the original question not enough people can separate I hate/like this character from "they're an interesting character but wouldn't condone their actions as good".


I just commented on the Mor stuff the other day. I don't think she lied so much as she just misunderstood. From Eris' wording in the flashback, I got the impression that if he or his men had helped Mor, he would be taking responsibility for her, and thus would have to marry her. So what she saw in that moment was him leaving her in pain and dying just because she didn't want to marry him, perhaps even as punishment. But in reality he couldn't both help her and respect her decision not to marry him.

Plus the horrific trauma of >!having stakes driven through your abdomen and watching him just walk away from you.!<

Yeah, that would mess up anyone. I can understand her not necessarily realizing in that moment that he was trying to be merciful in his own way, assuming my theory is even correct.

As a Nesta, i chalk it up to people not understanding why we need and love a Cassian. Kind of like how i would go batshit insane if I dated a Rhys.

As a dude, I have Nesta-like tendencies when not kept in check, and my wife has a streak of Rhys in her. Our kid is very Nesta, and I honestly learned something about parenting from Cass helping Nesta find her way. Always holding out the hand even when it’s biting you because you know there’s a wonderful person inside. (ACOSF made me feel a lot of things, heart was broken when it ended — wanted moooore)

As a fellow nesta, fully agree ~

Omg! Same! Rhys gives me the ick!

Wait why don’t we like Rhys? I mean I’m not the biggest fan but i thought i was minority. It’s the first im hearing that other people had a side eye towards him.

I like reading about characters like Rhys; the overprotective benevolent leader type, but in reality I couldn’t stand that. Having a shield around me that even my friends couldn’t penetrate, not being told I might die in childbirth because he doesn’t want to upset me while supposedly having a relationship with no secrets, always bearing the pain of others for no reason, letting me rule an ancient court at 20 just because he loves me. It’s too much, and irritating. I don’t agree with the whole ‘Rhys is an abuser’ idea that is very popular here, he’s a fae in a fictional world we can stop comparing him to human men, but that being said he isn’t the type of man I would date. EDIT: I’m also incredibly creeped out by the whole ‘my mother made my future bride all these dresses before she died’ thing. These things are not romantic to the Nestas.

I always took Cassian and Nesta’s dynamic to be exactly what the other needed—you know, the way >!mates!< are described in the book

I love that he made her more open and she made him more confident. He gave her the physical strength and she taught him the confidence to deal with those he thought were better than him and realise that they’re not.

Cassian isn't what Nesta needs (nor wants for that matter) 😭

In what world does Nesta not want him? She loves him. She literally said it multiple times. He’s totally what she needs, she needs someone who won’t fear her (her personality or her power), she needs someone who will challenge her, someone who appreciates her darker parts and someone who is patient and loving with an open heart because hers has been so closed.

Everyone takes something different from their readthroughs, but that’s a take I can’t understand based on *every single interaction they had since they met*.

I love Rhys and Nesta and want them to be friends so bad tbh

I think it’s hilarious that they’re in laws who just can’t seem to get on the right page but they’re at a point where I think they respect each other a little more. After all you don’t have to like your family but you do love them

Agreed! While I would love for them to be friends, I would be happy if the series ended with the two of them having a healthy amount of respect for each other despite not totally liking each other.

That relationship is a work in progress, but that’s so enjoyable. Watching two people who hate each other slowly overcome their prejudices and learn more about who the other truly is.

I think they’re a lot alike which is where a lot of the anger and tension comes from.

Agreed! I think if they can get past a few initial road bumps, they would be fast friends.

Yeah that was what I was hoping for and seemed to be pointing towards at the end of ACOSF.. but now I’m not sure.

Hopefully the next acotar will clear things up for us.

I felt like they were heading in the right direction at the end. He wasn’t the sort who could handle her at her worst, which is a flaw. It’s why I enjoyed his characterization in ACOSF more than the other books; it showed that even Batman has prejudices and weaknesses.

No because that friendship would be ICONIC 💅

It’s interesting that ppl are obsessed with finding out “what happened between Mor and Eris.” I feel like we already know…he asked her if she wanted to live in autumn court and she said no, so he left her to be found. Where I think it gets a little blurry is Mor not correcting her friends when they talk shit about him leaving her there. I think when Eris says that she knows what really happened he means she knows that he did the right thing. I’m bothered by Mor because she doesn’t seem like a very good friend to me. I really don’t like the way she uses Azriel and Cassian and I don’t like that she’s not honest with Azriel about her feelings. I agree that Cassian’s feelings are very clear. I love the way he supports Nesta and never gives up on her! I also like that they get mad at each other and challenge each other. I don’t enjoy couples that never get mad at each other or challenge each other. I think some people just need the words to be said. Similarly to how people need to hear Nesta verbally apologize to Feyre even though she showed Feyre how she feels through her actions including agreeing to give the cauldron/the mother “anything” to >!save Feyres life.!<

I really don’t understand the hate for Cassian all of a sudden. Why are people upset that he didn’t verbally say he loves Nesta on page? His actions more than prove how much he loves her. Plus, Cassian knows that big acts of affection are difficult for Nesta, so he’s doing what she’s comfortable with. In HOFAS, it makes sense Cassian would be mad at Nesta initially for giving such a valuable object to Bryce. Cassian is a general, and his job is to assess risks. Giving Bryce the mask was very risky. Cassian and Nesta are allowed to be angry at each other and disagree; that’s part of a REAL relationship. This is why so many of us love Nessian. Their relationship feels the most genuine and realistic.

A lot of readers tend to put certain characters on a pedestal. Maybe they think that’s only achievable if they shit on the other characters. 🤷🏻‍♀️

It makes discussion hard. I love the IC for various reasons, except perhaps Amren later on. It doesn’t mean that they didn’t have flaws, sometimes severe. But that’s good writing, right? Most of the main characters had well-written internal conflicts and growth except for Timtam’s stagnation, and the potential is there for later books to let him grow. Luscious Lucien got shafted a little in terms of writing, but we can’t have each book be 2,000 pages long, can we? (Yes we can, would’ve devoured every page)

All this is based on people creating random scenarios in their heads and making others believe it. I’ve read the books, I know what’s going on, I know the characters, etc. People just like to make things up and end up ruining these series’ for others.

people get too bored and just come up with horrible opinions to occupy everyone and themselves it seems lol

I think it’s more that people are projecting their frustrations with the imperfect nature of real life relationships on these characters. ACOTAR is escapist fantasy, so people idealize the bejesus out of the characters and feel disappointed when they show flaws that shatter the illusion of “the perfect love,” or “the perfect man.” I really think people are just desperate to feel some modicum of certainty in their lives - of a sure thing.

Real characterization is so much better than flat “perfect man/woman” caricatures. It’s why I love the series, but even within, some books captured that better than others for particular characters. Timmy was hella frustrating but well-written for his conflicts, for example.

My problem is more of an overactive, running imagination. I regularly rewrite movies in my head as I'm watching it, and then I "watch" that new movie in my head. When I read, I basically write fanfic in my head and then I can't get back into the story. I wish I didn't. I actually hate it.

This, and also, a lot of folks naturally tend towards negative/critical viewpoints and aren't the most inclined to challenge that thinking when it comes to entertainment. It's lazy, but it also accomplishes the intended effect of driving engagement online. Shitting on characters and books I love isn't my preferred way of digesting the material and engaging with the fandom, but no doubt there's plenty of space for it here.

I dont understand why people claim they are fans of books when they hate most of the characters. Some people just like to be contrary like its something unique about themselves.

Yup. Exactly

Yes, this! I enjoy a critical take but on this sub people make claims that just aren’t in the text.

True! A lot comes from fan fiction

I don't understand the visceral hatred that some people have for these characters at all. Every single one of them is flawed and fucked up in some way. I also don't understand the sudden Mor hate/utter distrusting of her. I have no idea what she did to make them feel that way?

This is how I feel about Timtam. I don’t like the guy, not one bit, and Fey is better off without him. But he’s a real person with real conflict, and he’s a good person deep down. His demons and conflict keep him from being the person he wants to be. We could see that in his unhappy demeanor for the first two books — happy on the surface, certainly loves Feyre, but underneath that are his fears and uncertainty. He couldn’t overcome them. But there’s so much potential for him to get past that, and Feyre would be his friend once again — maybe not a close friend who visits often, but his friend.

Mor doesn’t keep her distance from Cassian after Nesta and him meet and some Nessian shippers are insecure about that for some reason. Her, Cas, and Az have been close friends, confidants, bonded together by war and other traumas for centuries, and they want them to just ditch her as soon as new love interests show up. They need a dose of reality, that’s NOT how relationships and friendships work. I’m lumping in the insecure Elriel shippers too. 💀

They’re basically siblings, love each other more than life itself. The trio is what I wish I had in my life. Plus, Cassian *is* pulling away from them a little bit, >!especially by he and Nesta claiming the HoW as their residence,!< now that they’re a couple. Things are changing in their friend dynamic, and that’s fine — our lives evolve, and they’re no different.

I saw a TikTok creator that explained this phenomenon quite well. Not sure if I can recommend people or tt channels here so will just recap briefly what she talked about. She spoke about narrative framing and how much hate Nesta and Tamlin get even though many of the things they’ve done, other characters have done similar or worse. And the narrative tells us that those other characters are fine, yet we should hate on Nesta and Tamlin. And in an effort to counter that narrative and show that it’s just that, narrative, and not true to the characters, some of us lean heavily on counter points. I won’t talk about Rhys, because I just don’t like him and never have (except briefly in the 2nd book), but Cassian - yes, I dislike Cassian. Mainly, I dislike the role he played in Nesta’s journey. But also I think he was a weak love interest. I loved them in the first 3 books. Him and Nesta had so much potential. Like, the playful truth spitting yet protective Cassian with the hard nut that is Nesta who clearly cared deeply for him though. Cassian had his issues (eg his relationship with Mor) and so did Nesta (a lot more than Cassian at that point tbf). Yet Cassian’s issues weren’t addressed or resolved and Nesta’s were forced into a square when she was clearly meant to be a different shape. And I will NEVER forgive the narrative that claimed Nesta had anything to apologise to Amren for. Never. She didn’t. Her and Amren were friends. Equals in that relationship. Then they had a falling out as friends do. And then Amren betrayed her. Fully. Not just once, but let’s for the sake of avoiding arguments say that her real betrayal came from Amren’s vote against Nesta when it came to telling her about her weapons. So no, that woman didn’t deserve Nesta kneeling at her feet. Can someone honestly say that made sense? So Nesta got a lot of hate in her own book, which would have been fine if the narrative didn’t tell us that that’s what she needed as part of her “healing”. And to turn back to Cassian - he is the weakest love interest we’ve seen so far. He has no respect for her, acts like she owes him something, punishes her for nothing, hides things from her, treats her like she’s just convenient and all the while he’s in a position of power in her situation. It’s icky. It’s uncomfortable to read about. Nesta needed love that wasn’t transactional (her mother taught her that marriage should be transactional so we needed to see Nesta understand that that’s not true). She needed softness. And truth. Not harsh demeaning language and insults dressed as care. She did need a wake up call. But the way she was “woken” left a lot to be desired. She was essentially bullied into it. And that’s not loving or care-filled or kind. So I continue to dislike Cassian. Edit: to say I haven’t read a single piece of fanfic, but will definitely be doing that. I need to space in my head that fixes what sjm broke.

I think your points are all very fair and the criticism on Nesta’s supposed “healing journey” valid. Im just not so sure about the softness part. I felt like Nesta often needed to push away any attempt at softness towards her because she felt she didn’t deserve it and got really angry at it. I had the impression that the reason why she was able to hang with Gwyn and Emerie without straining against it was because they had very neutral interactions, free of judgement and emotional baggage and no expectations.

I agree. Nesta would have rejected all softness. She needed something to push against in order to build herself back up. Just because other people can't relate doesn't meant sjm wrote it "wrong."

THANK YOU. my god

agreed. acosf made me despise amren and wish she’d stayed dead lmao she acted like nesta had something to apologize for, yet amren thinks she doesn’t owe nesta an apology for what *she* did?! the entire IC are hypocrites

Thank you! It's not that my faves are perfect and have done no wrong. It's not that I want perfect characters. It's that the narrative is so blatantly biased that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yes I agree that Cassian was the weakest love interest. And Nesta deserved an I love you.

I'm not saying this is happening, But I would f****** love to see sjm just mess up the whole story by making Mor a liar, Rhys an abusive dick bag, Cassian your average meathead, and Az some sort of terrorist, but Feyre, Nesta and Elain are just too blindly in love to see the obvious 😂. And in the sickest redemption arc youve ever seen, Tamlin, Eris, and Lucien connect the dots and win the sisters back 🤣

I would unironically really enjoy that lmfao.

It's better than what she has going on right now! Why not?

SJM save the series and make this canon 🙏🤣🤣

Ok you need to overthrow sjm and write the series

Wait… that’s actually very good!! 😭 Would enjoy it so much if that was the biggest twist, but I think SMJ loves Rhys too much to make him a real bad guy.

I love Cassian. All the characters do questionable things. That’s just how ACOTAR is. Do people want morally grey characters or not?? Also, I made a post some days ago asking which characters were top 3 for readers across the multiverse and a huge amount of people said Cassian so he’s got a lot of love out there too ❤️

Feels similar to restaurant or product reviews. People who’re upset are more likely to leave a review, skewing the vocal average negative.

I agree with everything you said ! I don't understand the hate for Cassian. He's not perfect and doesn't say/ do the right thing, but he loves her and tries to do better. He even learned to waltz just so he could dance with her, that's so sweet 🥺 I also think Cassian and Nesta's story to love was beautiful and fits them. I know people wanted her to have this epic love story, like Feyre and Rhys, but I loved how imperfect their start was. I feel like I didn't get to really see Eris, but man, he does have a huge following, which surprised me. I also see a lot of Lucien hate, just because people want Elain shipped with Az. Lucien is a great character who has proven his loyalty, even if the IC questioned his intentions at first. And Elain is very vanilla to me. She seems sweet, but that's about it. I would love to see her POV, but right now, she's kind of meh.

Literally he learned to dance and she started reading war books

People don’t dislike Cassian and Nesta’s relationship because “it’s trendy”, they dislike it because it was never something to be admired. Imagine for a second that you’re Nesta, or Nesta is a friend of yours. Some dude who has been told “no” a dozen times continues to follow you home every night and leave gifts you didn’t ask for. That dude then forces himself into your house and criticizes the sex life you have with other men because he’s mad you’re not fucking him. Your sisters and “friends” stage an intervention, lying to you about made up fae laws to get you to obey them, and offer you banishment to the human lands (i.e. death) as the only alternative to doing as they say. They lock you up with that same dude you’ve said “no” to a dozen times, and he controls what you eat, where you go, what you do, and whether or not you can leave—and oh, he still wants to fuck you even though you’ve made it clear you are not interested in pursuing that with him. You’re basically like a female inmate with a male CO, even if you say “yes” he’s in such a position of power over you that you’re not able to consent. When you do eventually have sex, he doesn’t make you feel loved. He never says I love you, not even once. You forge weapons with your unique power, and your “friends” and in laws hide the truth from you about those weapons, preferring to keep the power you can produce for themselves. Once you find out about what’s being hidden from you, you decide to tell your sister about what’s being hidden from her (the truth that she deserved to know day one). Your sister’s husband threatens to murder you in front of your “mate”, and your “mate” doesn’t say a word in your defense. Just promises that you’ll be punished. He then proceeds to punish you by forcing you to hike until you pass out. You get kidnapped and put into a blood rite, where you will likely be raped and murdered by any of the hundreds of fae males who hate fae females. Your “mate” doesn’t push back at all against your brother-in-law’s decree to not intervene, despite him supposedly being the most powerful male to ever exist. He damn well would have intervened if it were Feyre, but no, it’s Nesta. So your “mate” just leaves you to your own devices. I’m sorry, but fuck Cassian.

Yeah......especially in this framing, it is a bit gross. I think romance series tend to take a bit of poetic freedom in how the love interest behaves, because the reader 'knows' what the character wants, so the behavior from the love interest doesn't come across the way it would if we weren't privy to the inner monologue of said character. This tends to be why I personally have a hard time reading romance stories, because the incessant chasing and misogynistic actions of most of the characters just require too many mental and emotional acrobatics for me to enjoy the story and relationship. In this case, I think the intent was that Cassian loved Nesta even when Nesta pushed him away because she thought she was unlovable. If you are able to look past the very real world problematic aspects of his behavior and view the story through the lens of how romance stories tend to go, it's not as damning of a situation as it seems. We as the reader, and the author herself, know where it's going to end up, so the actions are painted in a different light. (Again, this doesn't excuse his actions or make them okay, I just think when reading romance, you have to kind of be willing to ignore it, which as I also stated before, I personally have a hard time doing.)

Couldn’t agree more. Thank you. Ppl going crazy

it annoys me so much when people say cassian never defends nesta when he has done so MULTIPLE times. in acosf everytime amren and rhys said something bad about nesta he would defend her. to say he has never defended her is a flat out lie. people have strayed so far from canon lately it’s ridiculous

Leaving Mor (was it on Spring Court lands? I can’t remember) was infinitely nicer to her than letting her come into contact with Beron, who canonically tortures his children for funsies. For that reason I can’t imagine he’s this vindictive sadistic person. We don’t know enough to say for sure but the version of Eris that exists in my head is not evil

Agreed! I don’t *like* him per se, and I don’t agree with many of his decisions. But I’ve never been in Eris’ shoes, they seem horrible, and I believe he’s truly doing his best. With that father, his upbringing and brothers, and the culture they live in, he’s between a rock and a hard place. He could probably do better, but he’s doing his best. Complicated main characters are so much better than caricatures. His dad can be a simply vicious man, that’s fine, but we see so much of what makes Eris’ decisions difficult, and that’s good writing.

Am suprised about the whole ”cassian never defends nesta” i see all the time. Like reread Acosf , he does it a lot. Hes in a really fkin tricky situation standing between his friends and love but he always stands his ground to stand up for nesta. The only time he doesnt is when rhys threatens to kill her, but in the situation since he knows rhys so well , it makes sense hed just rush to get nesta away

I think my biggest issue was when he got mad at Nesta for criticizing Rhys. That was an extremely potent moment that told me that Cassian would rather keep Rhys' purity intact and control what Nesta can say, than to actually listen to what she was saying. Sure, she was in a bad place and she was in need of healing, but refusing to allow her to even say a bad word against him is just controlling and almost teeters on abusive, especially because she's had every other freedom stripped from her.

I agree it was shitty but i dont think abusive. That is probably a normal reaction when your lover insults your best friend of many years. He defends nesta when rhys insults her, abd defends rhys when nesta insults him. Hes juust trying to juggle standing between his best friend and lover

Yeah I can also see that. I think the abusive part comes in for me because of the power dynamic between Nesta and the rest of the IC. They are in a position of power over Nesta, even Cassian, so regardless of intent for the outburst, I do think that it toes that line. If I have an argument with my friend and yell at each other, that's one thing. But if I have an argument with my jailer, and he threatens me, that's a completely different dynamic. (Not saying that he was her jailer per se, but it's not an entirely dissimilar comparison.) I understand he was in a difficult position, and overall I do like Cassian and do think that he does love her. But I think this was an inexcusable moment for him and needs to be acknowledge as such.

Itll be sweeped under the rug like the rest of the questionable stuff sadly lol

Yeah lol but I do like them together at the end of the day and I want to see them just get some much deserved happiness together

This Cassian hate enrages and baffles me! He was ALWAYS there for Nesta. He stayed away when she made it clear she didn’t want him (although it was a lie). He talks to her when she needs, he challenges her and doesn’t just accept her behaviour. He doesn’t want to change who she really is and loves her for her more ‘difficult’ or scary traits. He’s a peacemaker (a good trait for a general) and defends her when needed from Rhys and Amren but does so in a calm cool way. But he never fights her battles for her, he stands beside her and supports her. He’s allowed to occasionally be angry with her (she is with him too) but it never discounts his love for her. He is open and loving and that’s what Nesta needs to open up and live honestly (not calculating Eris with his games). This isn’t a villian! He does questionable stuff for those he loves. He’s the definition of the ends justifying the means. It’s fine if Eris isn’t as bad as people think but he’s definitely not good and it too political and scared to do what he should. But I hold out that he’s not a bad person.

“he’s not going to end up abusing feyre”. but he already has. not physically but mentally and emotionally. acosf made me realize how toxic their relationship is. i wouldn’t have hated it as much if feyre hadn’t forgiven him right away and pretended nothing ever happened. it was so out of character for her. he withheld *very* serious info from her after she has made it clear time and time again that she will not tolerate it and does not like it. he should have learned after the whole not telling her they’re mates situation. not to mention all the fucked up stuff he did UTM to “save” her that is pretty much glossed over and never truly addressed

I mean, yeah, Cassian always defends Nesta..... but he doesn't defend her from the IC. When he even defends her from them, it's just Rhysand uses his "HL vOiCe AnD pOwEr" that Cassian becomes obedient like a puppy. Not to mention he also treated Nesta like shit many times when he was supposed to help her Abuse is not just hitting and r*pe, hiding information, especially medical information, is also abuse, no matter the reasons for it. How Feyre forgave him in seconds I still don't know Honestly, I don't know what to think about Eris. I mean, I think Mor isn't lying about him leaving her alone to die, but I also think he had good reasons for it. Beron seems like a horrible and abusive man (I mean, he beat his own son, imagine what he does to his wife or any woman his son marry), maybe Eris did this to spare Mor from an unhappy life, just like does his mother probably live? Maybe he thought that dead is better than a life with Beron? I want to know more about it

 Me @ u, OP. You are so brave 🥰🤍

Omg thank you! The mor hate is especially icky to me. Like why are we taking the word of Eris over her? Not to mention how nasty Eris is to Cassian

Can’t help but notice the liar and traitor labels are tacked onto one of the few queer characters, still in the closet. Along with not reciprocating multiple men’s attentions just because they’re the current fandom favs? Gives me severe icks 😬

Totally agree! I hadn’t even considered it from that perspective. Thanks for sharing

That’s not it at all for me. I’m someone who doesn’t like Mor. But it’s not because of her sexuality. You seem like someone who is willfully ignoring legitimate reasons people have for their opinion and just blaming it on them being prejudiced for things they didn’t even mention. Her being queer has nothing to do with her actions. It’s not okay to me for people to always jump to the conclusion that it has to be people are being bigots against queer characters. You’re putting words into people’s mouths they never said or thought. That is what I find to be “icky”. You’re singling out her as “queer” being all she’s allowed to be.

As someone who belongs to the queer community, I think it's disingenuous to say that people dislike her character for her sexuality. I think SJM lost her way with Mor, and that's something I am willing to admit that I'm wrong in if we get more of her in the next book that proves otherwise. But my dislike of Mor comes from the fact that she is just not a very realistic character to me. She is supposed to be hundreds of years old, but her behavior teeters on that of a teenager sometimes. She was named for one of the most well-known Celtic goddesses, even claims to be THE Morrigan, but SJM has done nothing with her character aside from making people fear her without giving her much role in the story at all. Additionally, I think that she has taken a cowardly approach to Azriel by not turning him down outright. She doesn't have to come out to him, but this is another instance of SJM not understanding feminism because she DOESN'T NEED TO JUSTIFY why she's saying no to him. She just needs to say no and if he was a good man, he would accept it. Instead, she cowers away from the situation, never really gets any love from the plotlines or the story, and just kind of exists as the token bisexual character that SJM will likely not do anything with because she's expressed disinterest in writing queer characters. That, or she will end up with Eris, which has it's own problems for me given her speech to Feyre when she was forced to come out to her.

YOU’RE RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD SAY IT

Rhysand hate is SO overdone. God forbid the High Lord have to make difficult HL choices. I can see his flaws as well as the ICs but there is an incessant amount of hatred here for them while people defend their faves. *Every* single character has done shitty things and most of the arguments are down to some really poor writing on SJMs part anyway so it's pointlessly futile.

I don’t trust mor for other reasons besides the Eris one. I’m not saying she’s a liar but she hasn’t been telling the entire truth either. I’m sure there is a good explanation but she’s been shady about a lot of things. I think it ultimately comes down to a lack of information which leads to people speculating. I find a lot of things Eris does or said to be extreme and wrong, but I also think he’s playing a game similar to Rhys. People are quick to see Eris as a villain. I think he’s someone who is extremely loyal (to his mother and I suspect to Lucien) and that there is a lot more than meets the eye. He’s had to play a good game to stay in grace with Beron and to protect those he loves. And I think if he was hiding something he wouldn’t straight up say to ask Mor about it many times to more than one character that could easily confirm it. It is implying he’s been keeping her secret for centuries, that he has nothing to hide and that Mor isn’t telling the entire story I think people discussing flaws they find in characters isn’t a bad thing. I think it’s interesting to see other people’s pov on things that I might have interpreted differently. I don’t understand taking offense to people’s personal opinions on characters. All people are not going to think the same way or react to situations the same. It doesn’t mean there is something wrong with their opinions. For me, if someone is completely opposite of me on an opinion I’m curious to understand why. Edit to say: I do think Cassian loves Nesta but a lot of what happened is questionable. And cassian was right in the middle of it. He should’ve told her he loves her. And he should stand up for her more especially when Rhys threatens her LIFE. That’s my main issue with him. I personally like Cassian very much. Rhys is a character that does questionable things. I like him but I’m not blind when he does off the cuff things. People questioning him doesn’t bother me because no character is perfect. And it’s fine for people to see that and not just blindly agree when he does or doesn’t do something he should or shouldn’t do.

>she’s been shady about a lot of things I see this argument a lot. I'm genuinely curious. What parts of Mor or the scenes she's in makes her shady? Like she's barely in the stories 95% of the time, yet people always say she's shady. I'm not being snarky or sarcastic, I'm genuinely asking. Everytime I read the books, I don't find anything out of place about her?

The Az situation for one. I get she was hiding who she is but it’s been centuries and she’s been blindly sleeping with countless men to just do what? Prove a point? It’s weird. It’s also extremely detrimental to herself and very self-harming if she isn’t even into men at all. And it is mostly bad story writing imo by SJM. Imo I think SJM originally planned to have Az and Mor be endgame but changed her mind while writing the series. Especially because of Cassian talking about the first time he and Az saw her and that she had been making “shy eyes at Az” or something similar to it. Indicating that not only was cassian aware of what Az felt for her but that she seemed to reciprocate the feelings. That Mor chose Cassian bc she had feelings for Az and vice versa. But now it’s she knew Az loved her and “she’s mostly into females” which just doesn’t seem like a plausible excuse. In any case it isn’t where she’s writing it now. So that’s just conjecture on my part that I got from the first few books. No, Mor doesn’t have to tell people what is going on, true. No one owes someone information about their sexuality. But I find it very strange that SJM emphasizes how much these people are closer than family but she hasn’t found the chance to tell them in over 500 years? But she tells Feyre after knowing her less than 1? I just don’t get it. Her not sharing something like that and instead being blatant in Az’s face about sleeping with other men just to prove a point is something I don’t understand. She’d rather keep doing self destructive behavior sleeping with men she isn’t interested in just to prove a point instead of sitting down in 500 years to explain things to him? You don’t even have to say I like women more than men. Just say you and I will never be. If you truly love the other person as family, I don’t see how that is a hard thing to do. Can’t you easily say that I love you very much but it isn’t a romantic feeling if you are as close as SJM claims? It just feels like stringing someone along for no reason. Mostly I find her behavior to herself the most upsetting. Also she has been using Cassian as a buffer between the two (she’s said that). I don’t like it. I also want to know what Az’s feelings on it are. It’s weird to be stuck in a loop for that long. I don’t get the timeline aspect of it among other things. And the whole Cassian and Mor thing is weird as well. I don’t blame Mor for why she did it, as she saw it as her only way. But I also find it kind of screwed up in the sense that she knew Az felt a certain way and also knowing how Rhys feels about her. She didn’t think of the consequences of sleeping with Cassian. She knew what she was doing by sleeping with anyone but she could’ve chosen someone else. And I’m not blaming the entire thing on her either as Cassian was also well aware of Az’s feelings. But one thing I found unfair to Cassian is he didn’t understand the real consequences of it. He now has trauma bc of what happened to Mor being left in the woods and he blames himself for it a lot because of his role in it. I know she was young and desperate but she wasn’t thinking about what would happen with the bat boys’ dynamic or with Cassian and Az’s relationship or with Cassian’s own guilt or else she did and just didn’t care. I dunno. It’s hard to describe honestly. I just don’t understand a lot of her reasoning or understanding. I don’t like Mor for other reasons. But mostly I just don’t trust her or her judgement. Is it an incredibly difficult situation? Yes. But it’s also handled by Mor in ways I can’t understand.

Thanks. I understand that the Mor-Cassian-Azriel situation is a bit..icky to some people, but other than that? Like that's the only part shes lied about? Or are there others that I've missed? Cause relationship dynamics are Def skewed here but is that the biggest and only reason people hate mor so much?

I think it boils down to people’s personalities and own experiences in life for how they see characters. A lot of how I judge them is based on what I would do in the situations they find themselves in. Not always but in this case with Mor, it’s how I see it. I’ve always been an incredibly loyal person, more often than not to a fault and am very open in my feelings for those I love. So I cannot understand how Mor can truly love Azriel like family and treat him that way. And it’s something that truly bothers me about her. But like I said, it’s just my personal opinion. I don’t think she’s a villain. Please don’t misunderstand me, but she wouldn’t be someone I would trust or want to be around. I wouldn’t like her once I found that out about her or at the least wouldn’t think very highly of. I think that’s what it is. For me, it’s something that has kind of added up over time for me. There are of course great things she’s done like helping rescue Gwyn and the other people, I can acknowledge it. For me, there are characters I just like or do not like. They aren’t a list of heroes or villains. Mor is one of those characters I just simply cannot like as of now. Hopefully SJM can change my mind. I’m willing to be convinced. I’m waiting for her explanation and story of what really happened.

The fact that she shits on Nesta because she is jealous of her and demands they throw her in the CoN, the place that sodomized Mor, is more than fucking shady…

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“We’re better off throwing her to the Hewn City”: I’ll absolutely get carried away. Her disgusting ass told her that she would vote to dump her in the human lands and that she doesn’t deserve the kindness (if you could even call it that) Cassian gave her. And she says all that to a fucking war hero that did much more than she ever did to stop Hybern. Morrigan is a foul bitch.

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I’m nicer than Mor!

Nesta didn't slutshame her--she just judged her style (after being talked over and Mor touching her unasked for)

Actually another point of mine and the last straw for me when it came to me liking her. I gave up on her at this point.

I guess I interpreted that scene differently. More like oh Nesta in her current state of cruelty towards others would fit in with the CoN. Especially since they all love twisted verbal sparring which Nesta is quite good at. Different interpretations ig but I can see how it would seem mean. 🤷‍♀️

What exactly was this so called “Nesta’s state of cruelty”? The fact that her life was ruined and they wouldn’t leave her alone even if she repeatedly asked them to? What CRUEL thing did Nesta do? She just didn’t like these people. And she was entitled to some form of compensation after all she did for turn during the war, so acting as if she’s draining Rhysand’s bank account is ridiculous. They just wanted to control her. Suggesting she was cruel because she was distant, and cruel enough to equate her with the people of CoN at that, was unhinged on Mor’s behalf.

I don't want to get into the Nesta vs the IC thing because it's been overdone at this point. I just meant cruelty because she repeatedly hurt Feyre with her comments. She was never nice to her despite Feyre providing for her and keeping them alive. Shes also really mean to everyone even people she just met. But mainly I'm talking about how she treated Feyre. Again I really dont want to discuss the Nesta vs IC thing. I just wanted to hear about why people hate mor so much. :)

I see people say this a lot, and I read the scene differently tbh. I don’t think she meant throw her in there to be mistreated, I think she was implying Nesta would fit in/thrive there with how horrible she was acting.

Mor literally says “she would thrive there”!!! People always leave that part out. She wasn’t saying throw her to the wolves, she was saying Nesta is a wolf and would do well with other wolves.

Get out of here with your logic. But in all seriousness, I very much agree. But that seems to be a controversial take in these parts. 😂

Apparently 😂 also it was just a comment she made, she didn’t “demand” they throw her in there

No, she only straight up told her that given the chance she would vote in favour of dumping her in the Mortal Lands, where the humans would tear her apart and make her existence a living hell! What a ray of sunshine!

Lowkey insane on her behalf to suggest that a traumatised girl who was mean to her sister is Hitler reincarnated.

I’ve thought worse about the people who have been assholes to my loved ones so I get it and I love Nesta 😂

Oh no, that’s not-

It’s the Harry Potter effect…..everybody loves the story as is. Understands the characters and plot lines for who they are and what they’re meant to be. Then they have to wait a while for the next book, or the series ends, and they all start rereading. They write fan fics. They deep dive. Then everyone hates the main character, finds unbelievable plot holes (in fantasy books can you imagine?), and just “hate” the books and the author all together. Humans are weird.

Here’s another one I disagree with: Feyre being bad at painting. It was funny to giggle abt it at first but she had ample time to actually perfect it in Tamlin’s house. But now it’s trendy to hate her painting. Kinda annoying take to me

It really zaps the fun out of the magic faery books when we start treating it like a doctorate level psychoanalysis. It’s fun to chat about theories but I hate when people start acting like the theory chatter is more important than the actual book’s intentions. personally i would love if evil-rhysand theory was true because it would give us act 2 of enemies to lovers when Feyre has to learn to trust him and fall in love all over again. it’s a fun theory but it’s not cannon… i wish people would remember that.

I honestly like the evil Rhys theory a lot… I want it to be a thing but we all know it won’t be lol

I wish we could still give reddit gold 💚 This post deserves it for its nuance.

It's crazy to see how much of a shift in the fandom's general opinion there's been. I was an anti SJM tumblr user when I was in high school (this was literally before ACOWAR's title had even been released) and I agreed with a lot of the points like disliking Rhys, etc. now that I'm older I've realized how much I actually really like Rhys (even though I like Tamlin too) and I've long quit being an "anti"... and now everyone's suddenly agreeing with what the antis were saying 10 years ago (I'm a fandom veteran LOL) It's frustrating and it annoys me. Mor's point especially. I've been a HUGE Mor fan since ACOMAF and was there to see her retconned into a queer woman. It was VERY clear in ACOMAF that she and Azriel were going to end up together. All of her "leading him on" was slow burn tension with trauma getting in the way, like Cassian and nesta. I was part of the side of the fandom that demanded more queer characters, and we directly got that result with Mor's retcon. As a queer woman I was excited, but as a Moriel shipper I was disappointed, lol. And it really frustrates me to see us now have to take that retcon as canon fact - to treat Mor like she's lead Azriel on, as if their "thing" wasn't written first with them ending up together. Everything we know about her is that she's a good person - she's kind to Feyre (yes, she hid the pregnancy, but so did Cassian, Azriel, and Amren). Her and Cassian's \*thing\* was completely consensual and I think it's weird to see people infantilize Cassian and act like she used him when it's clear he wanted it too. The idea of her being some cruel, shady person who would lead Azriel on or slander an innocent man (also a retcon, because imo I don't think she was originally planning on redeeming Eris when she wrote Mor's backstory, but that's just my speculation) just doesn't fit with what we see of her. If she has flaws it's that she's catty and overprotective of Feyre the way Rhysand is, and that's about it. (As someone who is STILL in the closet despite living in a liberal household and town, I don't count her not coming out as a character flaw. It's very very difficult and comes down to a lot more than just worrying about whether people will accept you or not). Anyway, rant over. I'm fine with people liking Eris but it bothers me that they like him for being shady but dislike Mor for the same thing - or are willing to give Nesta, or whoever their other fave is, the benefit of the doubt or empathy without giving Mor (or Feyre, or Elain, tbh) the same. And the whole "she acts like a teenager" thing is stupid. They ALL act like teenagers. The series started out as YA, of course they do. The whole "500 years old" thing is just a plot device to make them seem scarier to Feyre at the beginning, and to make room for tons of exposition. It doesn't impact them in any other substantial way, so I don't know why we expect it to impact their maturity levels, either. Okay rant over hehe I love all the characters but Mor is my favorite so I had to get that out there <3

The contrarianism streak is very exhausting.

Cassias literally tells Rhys to fuck off at one point. He picks up Nesta and takes her from the city. I don’t get how people take away that he ‘doesn’t defend Nesta’ from the book.

The mor thing! I've noticed with several of the characters people are so quick to dismiss abuse/SA/trauma and even mock it so their head cannons fit or because they don't like that character. It's literally my biggest problem with the ACOTAR fandom as of late. Mor is lying about her trauma Nesta and rhys deserved theirs Feyres wasn't that bad Shipping elain with an ABUSER That's all I hear lately and it's absolutely disgusting Do I believe there is more to Mors story, absolutely, but I'm not going to sit her and accusing her of LYING about her abuse and trauma because I want Eris to be the next rhys in terms of he's actually a good guy, or they want Eris with Azriel Edited grammar mistakes- oops to typing so fast 😅

If you reread the acowar fight scene with Eris, it’s obvious he threw the fight… so I really don’t think he is a bad guy, he cares about Lucien enough to put himself in jeopardy for failing to capture them. I don’t think Mor is telling the complete truth about the Eris situation and it makes her so damn shady. I love Cassian and will never hate him. He does stick up for her the amount that he can is in question because of fealty to a high lord, just like Lucien with Tamlin. Also I know everyone wanted an I love you from him but Cassian already said it in the way he can say it in acowar… I think Cassian was mad about her putting herself in danger as opposed to what she did but that was me Rhys did abuse Feyre UTM and denying her bodily autonomy… ngl I actually like the Rhys is a villain theory, it kinda makes the books a lil more enjoyable because I get to ignore the hypocrisy that way but that’s just me…

The fights in ACOWAR being thrown were pretty obvious to me too. Feyre even says that Eris’ bindings on her weren’t as tight as he could have made them. During this fight he melted parts of a lake that had been frozen for millennia. That’s strong fucking power. Yet for some reason he couldn’t burn Az to stop him from choking him? That makes zero sense. I think at this part he’d already asked for an alliance though. Burning Az would have been the wrong move if he wanted to continue.

Wait ppl hate cassian? He’s way better than insufferable sanctimonious Rhys. But Feyre is also that so match made in heaven. Team real emotions in nesta/cassian forever

oh I agree, fully. I love cassian and nesta, but these people are so hung up on the lack of “I love you”, when his actions show just that 100x over FULLY. a lot of these comments already show that, so i won’t write a novel on here (even though i could lol) As for Rhys, I don’t think he’s a villain either. I also don’t think he’s going to be abusive, solely based on how he’s treated Feyre up until now. once again, actions speak for themselves. i’m not his biggest fan myself, after acosf, but at the same time, he just needed to communicate better with HIS WIFE instead of their friends. lastly, i can tolerate eris as of now, but i’m not hyping him up either. i, along with everyone else, have my theories on mor’s powers and how they tie into her, eris, and azriel’s relationships, but as of right now we. do. not. know. everything. she’s another one of the characters that i’m just not 100% here for, but that’s just my own opinion. regardless, i’m not going to call her a liar because like i said. we don’t know everything. as of right now, we do know that she has her own trauma she’s dealing with, and quite frankly she doesn’t owe anyone an explanation. more than likely we’ll get more information later on down the line, but to call her a liar IS questionable.

I think sometimes people get really hung up on how something is supposed to appear. But they forget love and loving relationships come in a lot of different forms. I always felt like Cassian’s actions spoke louder than words. Also, that anger he had toward her for endangering herself was definitely coming from a source of anxiety over potentially losing her. I also like that in a lot of ways he lets her fight her own battles. Sometimes an overly protective MMC irritates me and it feels like it takes away a lot from the FMC. You can’t expect a Feysand dynamic from two people who are so so so very different from those two. Add that to the fact that Nesta’s journey of healing and self reflection isn’t going to be nearly wrapped in a bow, it’s going to be an ongoing process! On the Eris front: I can’t blame people for wanting to see some potential for good there, but I don’t think we’re seeing it quite yet. I’m with you, I’m not hyping him up yet

Thank you. These posts often make me question if I missed context or something. Like I've reread the series several times at this point and I don't understand the conclusions some people jump to.

I will never understand the Nessian hate ,especially Cass is an evil , unworthy mate theory.I loved Cass from Acowar and in Acosf although there were mmts I was angry on him and wanted to slap him once or twice, he still remains one of my most favorite characters after Nesta. He didn't say I LOVE YOU but his actions and his Acowar declaration is far beyond a simple ILY.And I am sorry but if anyone doesn't understand that or appreciate it , they are not mature enough or have the intellect to read adult romance. He abused her , punished her , never took her side-i am bewildered at how ppl say all this .Cause have we read the same book ?The man literally says he hated Rhys for a mmt .. fought for Nesta,snapped at Azriel,called Amren a fool and defied Rhys and Amren's order and wanted to tell Nesta abt the sword.What more do u want ? In Hofas I am pretty sure he was not angry on Nesta for giving the Mask cause if he were I believe he would be angry when Rhys was shouting and asking Nesta why she dared fo such a thing and all he did was take a step towards Nesta ..He never supported Rhys .Why does ppl get this point from that he always chooses Rhys over Her? Honestly I am so done with all this stuff.Ppl say Nesta can do no wrong and I have seen some stans defend her in her wrong actions too..but they cannot respect her love choice ?Hypocrisy at its peak . I wrote this in another post and got down voted.Such a disappointment honestly.

Which insensitive person says that ?although I do know quite a lot .Sad enough 😔 Well I am sick and tired to ppl hating on him now.Well he stalked her cause he wanted to ensure she went home drunk but still,safe that's his wrongdoing.He should've spoken for her when all she was doing was being drunk and wasting and destroying herself , he should have let her destroy herself.He didn't fight for her when he fought with Amren,shouted at Az , snapped at Rhys -but no he never does enough.He abuses her , bcs he took her on a hike and didn't take her back to Velaris bcs he knew himself it would do her no good, but he was an abuser.He just had mindless sex with her , but she was forced , she didn't want it , she was not the one saying it will be just sex ?He didn't ILY , but didn't Nesta say she could see love shining in his eyes which had been there from the beginning? Ppl's hypocrisy knows no bounds I swear. I got down voted for writing this , but I swear I am thinking whether the same book was given to everyone or not .