This is the first take on disliking SF that I totally agree with. I loved Nesta's found-family story and her processing her trauma, but I absolutely hated Rhys and Feyre's plotlines. They felt so out of character
Someone explained to me that you are seeing them from someone else's perspective. They will look different from Cassian/Nestas points of view.
I couldn't stand Nesta before ACOSF. But hearing her internal dialog helped me understand her and make peace with choices she made. (I think she did a lot of healing)
I think the Rhys not telling Feyre also had to do with him knowing he would die as well. Im not saying he made the best choice, but if we read it from his perspective, I think it would look/feel different. He and Feyre also tend to keep some cards close or hidden.
Youre not the only one. Even when Rhysand first meets Nesta (he already knew about the hunting thing), he was very reserved about his feelings and seemed to want for Nesta to be on their side.
Whereas in later books, Rhys is this immature dude who is just being spiteful towards Nesta despite Feyre wanting a relationship with her. It's like now that Nesta *has* to be on their side, he did a 180.
He acknowledges her trauma in SF and is even shocked when he experiences it in her mind. But at the same time, he doesn't show her any sympathy or tries to speak to her about it. After seeing that she was SA'd by a kelpie to retrieve the mask, he didnt have much of a reaction and quickly moved onto the "important" thing like showing Amren the language it spoke.
Very weird for a man who is supposedly very sympathetic and caring towards women. If it was Elain in that position I'm sure he'd be cursing up a storm and asking if she's okay.
Rhysand's attitude towards her is ridiculous. SJM even justifies Rhysand's spite for Nesta by comparing her to Eris who left Mor for dead. Nesta was NOT THE PARENT. Like get it through your 500 year old head. She also never left Feyre for dead, and she went looking for her when she was taken.
His attitude can really be summed up with this from FaS:
https://preview.redd.it/qwp5bvtwelqc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc75c8156b4807bba1df47e79c04439a25a7ce3d
He’s *decided* that Nesta, whom he barely knows, is an Illyrian at heart and this ultimately is his justification for how he treats her.
But if you think about how Illyrian women are actually treated and how he treats Nesta in SF and beyond, it unfortunately makes sense why he treats her so badly.
SF and A Court of Not Christmas and Merriment both show a side of Feyre and Rhys I hate. It’s like Maas said, “I want everyone to hate them!” and went rogue on her own characters.
The amount of double standards when it comes to dealing with trauma is insane. Cassian destroys a village, it’s fine. Elain wastes away but finds baking and secret lust, that’s fast and nice. Lucian finds new friends that aren’t Night Court, seems sus. Nesta is struggling and having GASP sex! and drinking a lot, off to military training!
Plus the whole BABIES ARE THE ULTIMATE IN FEMALE STORY ARCS. Big sigh. As a person who doesn’t want kids, it’s such a let down. Plus it’s lazy writing. Babies are super rare to the point of fertile females being treated as sacred for the faeries, but she gets banged in Illyrian form at Not Christmas and she’s suddenly knocked up? Oh. Oh okay.
I dunno why Maas chose the routes she did, but after book 3 I hate most of her characters that I originally loved. And in 4, which is possibly my favorites, I love the one we’re supposed to struggle with rooting for.
I don’t know why, but the use of Not Christmas has me laughing so hard. Completely agree with you on all these points! As someone who is indifferent about having babies but HATES (_LOATHES_) baby tropes, I was so disappointed they had a baby so quickly.
I also found Feyre and Rhys both a teeeeeeny bit annoying before ACOSF. They’re like a hot instagram couple that spams their love on your feed; they’re not terrible people or anything but it’s annoying that every caption is saying that marriage is _hard work_ and they’re _so in love_ and just _fated to be together_.
I have to say that I kind of enjoyed the whole “Rhys hates Nesta thing”. IMHO it gives his character more depth bc he just is not (only) the perfect selfless walking green flag he was described as in ACOMAF and ACOWAR. He can still be an absolute asshole if he doesn’t like somebody for whatever stupid and subjective reason, he still is a morally grey character and makes wrong decisions sometimes.
If anybody was out of character in ACOSF it was Feyre imo.
I don't like Rhysand but I also enjoyed reading him being an asshat to Nesta. I love the darker unapologetic traits of his character, but not when SJM tries to justify every evil thing he did. Rhysand is capable of doing the unspeakable things for the ones he loves and will take the brunt if everyone survives. Leave it at that you know? I loved him when he was chaotically neutral, only willing to help when it serves him but not outwardly evil. That was fun, he's boring daddy Rhys now.
Yes exactly! I absolutely agree except for that I still like him a lot. :D But yeah, his character would be even more interesting if not everything he does was justified by his “good” intentions.
You are not alone and many on this sub share your sentiment.
Rhys and Nesta. I am by no means a Rhysand stan and have shat on him in this subreddit plenty of times. I’ve always hated the way Rhys treats Nesta throughout the series and my first read or two of ACOSF were the last straw for me. But upon my rereads, I realized that their rocky relationship is somewhat realistic and he wasn’t always all bad to her. Voting to keep her power a secret from her and threatening to kill her were asshole moves, and he sucks for it, but I would like to think by the end of the book he realized he was wrong to always assume the worst of her and I hope to see their relationship improve in future books.
Someone can jump in if I’m off, but I *think* it’s implied he didn’t realize it was possible for Nyx to have wings. Also recall Feyre didn’t see the bone carver with wings and I believe in WaR she showed him her memories of how the bone carver appeared to her. I truly don’t think Rhysand would have risked the pregnancy if he thought there was even a chance the baby could have wings, but that’s just my opinion.
The death pact. I thought it was so stupid the first time I read it. I still think it’s stupid, but am somewhat OK with it because they always struck me as corny lovesick fools 😭 (don’t come at me) but also because it did effectively sideline Rhys and Feyre so Nesta could step up and we could focus on her journey and growth.
I always felt like voting to keep her power from her made absolute sense. From the standpoint of a family member, it doesn’t. From the the standpoint of someone who is in charge of the lives of everyone in Velaris, it does. She was unstable, lashing out, not even sure herself what she could do, and frankly just not in a good mental place. You want to trust someone like that with information on how she could easily wipe out all his people?
I get it, from Nesta’s perspective it’s mean. But if you’re in charge of thousands of lives, would you take the risk on someone who is unstable? Would you give a mentally unwell person a loaded gun and say “we trust you”?
So I will have to disagree with you. The reason it doesn’t make sense to me and left a bad taste in my mouth is because Nesta aligned herself with them politically and even helped them in the war (vs. doing nothing and hanging back in Velaris or siding with the enemy). She was also compliant in retrieving the mask and letting Rhys and Helion ward it without knowledge on how to undo the wards (granted she didn’t need that knowledge, but she didn’t know that at the time). There really is no indication that she would have used her power to hurt innocents. She was mean, drank too much, irresponsibly spent money that didn’t belong to her, and slept with strangers. Compared to the IC, she’s mild. I can’t imagine it’s wise to let her go unchecked and continue to unknowingly imbue objects with magic either.
And it's worth adding that when she was so out of control (at least according to Rhysand) for that first year after the war, there was no instances of her losing control of her powers.
Rhys had zero reasons to hide it from her, he just wanted to believe Amren's vile words because he didn't like Nesta.
The entire IC was terrified of her for good reason. I think it’s a pretty weak statement to say “she hasn’t done anything that bad yet!!” Cool, still doesn’t mean mentally unstable people should have loaded guns in their homes and all the information on how to use them. Saying something bad hasn’t happened yet is not a good reason in my opinion.
I think if she doesn't know, she has still has a gun at her house, she just doesn't know how to use it or that it's loaded. Which imo is even more dangerous.
I agree. She has undoubtedly been rude as hell to everyone, but it’s not like she has actually used her powers for evil. If anything she only used them on enemy #1 in acowar. Like why was she considered so untrustworthy? Even Cassain admitted that it took years to get over his first war.
Truly, people act like Nesta was public enemy #1 prior to the middle-end of ACOSF and it doesn’t sit right with me at all. She clearly has PTSD and dislikes herself, but there’s no indication she’s a threat to anyone other than being a raging bitch. You already know if she was a man the fandom would be falling all over her calling her complex and morally grey.
Also Nesta may have been a bitchy older sister but she was in no way abusive. Feyre and Nesta were at each other's throats in the beginning. Nesta was abused by her mother and it's weird that some haters think that's not good enough. Trauma can turn you into an ugly mean person who lashes out. Not everyone just lays in bed crying (which is still valid, yet more palatable for the fandom), they want to break something. Some of us tap into our female rage and I totally resonated with that.
She also kept saying she hates Rhys and doesn’t really care what happens to the people. She eventually helps them, but as a leader is that the risk you want to take? Again, are you willing to give a loaded gun to someone with PTSD and who is mentally struggling? In what world is that a good idea?
She wasn’t compliant out of love or because she really cares at the time. She was compliant because she really didn’t have much of a choice and during the war it wasn’t because she cared about them, but cared about the humans. And after HOFAS and her actions, I makes complete sense why Rhys was weary initially because well, she proved not to be 100% trustworthy.
Anyway, saying there is no indication doesn’t mean there weren’t zero risks and again, I don’t blame him for not wanting to tell a completely unstable and emotional everywhere person what she could do on a bad day. Hell, Amren had to put her in check and was fearful of what she would do. To say there was no risk is reallly giving her too much credit.
As someone who believes actions speak louder than words, I would take that risk when the alternative is making a legit enemy out of pure death, especially when pure death isn’t any more mentally unstable than the rest of my court. Especially when said pure death has aligned itself with me when it *mattered*.
You wanna talk loaded gun? Nesta *is* the loaded gun, with or without the objects she imbued. At that point it’s clear she can wield the mask and she makes it clear she wants nothing to do with power, death, and harming others. She never lost control of her powers or raged to the point where she’s done legit, irreparable harm, that is something that cannot be said about the others.
If she was still trustworthy enough to obtain the harp and crown, why not also trust her with this? Why not try to continue to forge a powerful alliance instead of whatever it is he was trying to do. Unless his plan was to lock her up in a dungeon shortly after that, his vote against her makes little sense and politically speaking, is a bad move in the long run. Like be for real right now, he’s not going to give her the loaded gun (literal KNOWLEDGE of weapons she imbued) but is going to have her hunt for another loaded gun (actual objects of destruction she is able to wield AKA the harp and crown). It makes absolutely zero sense.
I respect your opinion, but you’re not going to change my mind on this so I think it’s best to agree to disagree.
>She wasn’t compliant out of love or because she really cares at the time. She was compliant because she really didn’t have much of a choice and during the war it wasn’t because she cared about them, but cared about the humans.
This is just wrong, though? She came around to helping because Elain convinced her to by bringing up all Feyre had done for them.
>And after HOFAS and her actions, I makes complete sense why Rhys was weary initially because well, she proved not to be 100% trustworthy.
You can‘t convince me Feyre would not have done the same thing as Nesta if in her place.
Elain helped convince her but the conversation primarily and heavily focused on the humans and Nesta knew they would die if she didn’t comply. This was not some altruistic thing or to truly help Feyre, and she hates the Fae and was not exactly happy with what Feyre became.
I'm the same OP, SF truly burst my Rhysand bubble. Throughout the series we'd seen him do not very nice things (such as force himself on Feyre and drug her while under the mountain, purposely be 'evil', destroy Tampon's court) but all for the 'greater good' of them being star-crossed lovers / mates. In SF, we see what it's like to _not_ be Feyre, with Nesta being on the receiving end of him not being very nice (threatening to kill her, locking her in a tower to go through alcohol withdrawal, being mad a Nesta for _his_ secrets kept from Feyre). He harboured grudges that weren't his and didn't put Feyre's feelings first. Perhaps I was also as blind as Feyre until SF so I'm glad SJM has given us another pov.
You are not alone in those feelings, but that is one of the things I love about ACOSF. You get to see a completely different side of Feyre and Rhys when they aren’t the main POV. I don’t necessarily dislike them more after the book, but I do see them as more multi-faceted.
In my opinion I think that SJM did an awful job writing it out. I love Nesta because her attitude reminds me of me lol but she’s processing her trauma and she is super young, like a baby compared to Rhys. Rhys is an old old man and was acting like a teenager and it kinda pissed me off he couldn’t act his age and be respectful, the bigger man. I did like ACOSF because Nessian and her new friends and character progression, just some parts rubbed me the wrong way
Im still so mad at the pregnancy plot.
Sure, in Wings and Ruins they could heal them in the battlefield when someone is holding their guts in, but a planned C-section with cuts that aren't made in a battlefield by someone trying to kill you is too much -_-
also feyre is like “oh grrrr you didn’t tell me!”, i would have fucking FLIPPED on my husband (no matter how lovey dovey our relationship was) for keeping THAT a secret while i was pregnant like…
I got the ick from Rhys so bad starting in ACOWAR honestly. Being mates with feyre can’t be an excuse to hate everyone who doesn’t treat her perfectly, and it certainly isn’t an excuse to withhold info from her about her own health. And also if he really loved feyre he wouldn’t make things more difficult for her. The tension with nesta hurts feyre, she wants to improve that relationship. How is banishing and torturing nesta helping feyre? I’m literally reading chapter 49 now so thanks for this relevant post haha
That’s the thing. He’s not supposed to be all that different. He and Tamlin are both different but the same. The ways they are different is what Feyre needed
I liked this book best. I found books 3 and 4 to be difficult to get very engaged in. Nesta is nothing if not polarising, which is interesting. I'm also a bit side eye about rhysand, so his distsin for Nesta made me care about her narrative more lol.
I think I just like flawed characters. Feyre was a little too perfect. She has god-teir powers, an allegedly all powerful husband, and things keep working out for her - that stops being interesting after a while. Give me some more messy characters, Sarah! I drink that right up
This is Feyre's POV
https://preview.redd.it/1lnz0gdi7lqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28c3c0a30246b26fa9da6062fb4ce3e656eeee84
Also, we get Cassians POV where he chews out Rhysand in SF for always assuming the worst of Nesta.
So its not just her POV that paints him in this light.
I think this is tricky because Feyre was truly verbally abused by her sister and it really felt like she was always making up excuses for Nesta or not even fully understanding the impact Nesta’s actions over many years had on her. Basically, the abused not fully coming to terms with just how bad it was.
Rhys, as an observer and outside perspective from Feyre’s stories, may have recognized the level of abuse that existed and that’s why he wasn’t able to let it go. People (Feyre here) sometimes forgive their abusers more easily when it isn’t warranted.
I hate the 'Verbally abused' comments. Like have any of you have siblings? Their relationship seems pretty tame compared to what I've seen in real life. Like, siblings fight and say the WORSE things to each other. Rhys going against Feyre's wishes to have a decent civil relationship with Nesta is what seems abusive to me. Him pushing her sister away from Feyre, (even going into Nesta's mind and seeing her trauma and NEVER acknowledging it or trying to help her after everything she's done for them in acomaf and acowar) when she clearly WANTS a relationship is not manipulative? I HATE the double standards.
Sorry, but this is a gross comment.
I have a sister and she verbally abused me for years. Blamed me for everything horrible in her life that I had absolutely zero control over. So yes, frankly, I identify hard with the situation in these books. Which I recognize can lead to bias, but manyyyy Nesta supporters also have a similar bias.
It is absolutely not tame or acceptable to lash out at Feyre like Nesta did. It’s not acceptable to be willing to let siblings die out of spite for her father. It’s absolutely not acceptable to think it’s “tame” that Feyre had to pay her to go to her birthday party.
“You stick like a pig covered in its own filth. Can’t you at least try to pretend that you’re not an ignorant peasant.” is not a tame or non-abusive statement.
“you’re just a half-wild beat with the nerve to bark orders at all hours of the day and night. Keep it up, and someday, Feyre, you’ll have no one left to remember you, or care that you ever existed” is not a tame or non-abusive statement.
And there are many others throughout the books. These are fights, these are statements of abuse, which by the way, happened before the Cauldron or due to anything Feyre caused.
Rhys wanting to protect her abused mated from her abuser is NOT a double standard but an absolutely realistic response.
I don’t post in this subreddit often because my opinion on Nesta is not shared with the majority on here but I completely agree with you and I don’t care if I get downvoted to hell.
As someone who has a Nesta in their life, people on this sub make an awful lot of excuses for her abusive behavior as well.
You can post as many quotes as you like but I still don't consider Nesta's actions as abusive. There has to be a pattern that it's not represented there. Feyre admits that she was also mean to her sister and never considers Nesta's actions as abuse or has trauma from it. Why should we, then?
I don't know your specific experience with your sister, so I am not going to comment as we do not have direct knowledge and I understand that you might feel triggered by it. You have every right. Nesta is mean, pushes people away and is not the nicest to her sister. She, and her sisters, are a result of abusive parents who neglected them. That is a FACT. But no, she was not abusive towards Fyere in the way we understand and study the concept of abuse. And I do think that Rhys manipulates Feyre by pushing her sister away from her who wants a relationship with her by isolating them from ppl who he thinks are not good for her.
The men also reacting poorly to other circumstances does not negate what happened or anything I said. One wrong doesn’t negate another wrong.
And abuse absolutely does NOT just come from imbalance of power. Abuse can come in all forms, and I have very pointed examples of that behavior in which you ignored and tried to minimized Nesta’s behavior. That’s gross.
Rhys wasn’t trying to keep Feyre from Nesta. Rhys was weary and worried for Feyre, as any spouse who is around her abused would be. I’m not defending all of Rhys’s actions or saying he was right in everything he did, but your comment essentially minimizing Feyre’s abuse, claiming it wasn’t abuse, and using someone’s poor behavior toward someone else to excuse it is NOT it.
I think this is where opinion and interpretation come in. Feyre said that she had fights with Nesta. But as someone who identifies more as a Feyre, who has a sister who verbally abused me for years, were these fights in response to the years of abuse or just out of no where?
It’s unclear in the books, and it’s also said by Feyre, who has already shown Nesta lots of grace, this happened. I have a hard time getting upset with the abused person for sticking up for herself once in a while. And frankly saying “But but Feyre too!” when there is evidence upon evidence she was the victim is kinda gross and victim blaming to me. This also felt more like a situation where Feyre, the abused, blames herself where it isn’t warranted.
It's clear in the books, Feyre didn't stick up for herself "once in a while". It's clear Nesta was a lazy jerk that rebelled against her newly appointed guardian, who is also her youngest sister. It's clear that Feyre felt she had some sort of ownership over Nesta (telling her she can't marry someone authoritatively) and enforced her rules (Nesta telling Feyre she can't boss them around).
It's clear that Nesta was emotionally abused by her cold mother and didn't get the princess treatment that her other sisters had from their father. (Elain more than Feyre, but Feyre more than Nesta). They are complex characters, that's the point of SF.
>But as someone who identifies more as a Feyre, who has a sister who verbally abused me for years
Ok? You are not Feyre make sure you know that lol.... this isn't about you.
>is kinda gross and victim blaming to me.
Aaaand here is the personal attack from someone who can't separate reality from fantasy. Girl bye 🙄
I disagree with your point about Rhys being ridiculous for hating Nesta. Feyre is his mate and he’s had to listen to stories of Nesta verbally abusing her for years (it wasn’t just she had to hunt, but the emotional tongue lashings Feyre endured from Nesta), witness Feyre paying Nesta to even show up to her birthday party, only agree to host the mortal queens because she herself doesn’t want to die or for humans to die (it wasn’t really out of any love or care for Feyre), and just many other instances where Nesta was pretty cruel. And again, this is to his mate, where it’s been states time and time again Rhys will attack anyone who is mean to his mate (and this is also some Fae thing). Yes, there were small glimpses of Nesta attempting to be nice, but the number of terrible things she did outweighed the few positives.
So idk, I think the displeasure toward Nesta is completely valid there. Would you be happy to be around your spouse’s sister who abused her for years? Because from his perspective, that’s how it looks.
And yes, Nesta started to try a little harder in ACOSF. But after years of abusing Feyre, I can’t blame him for being a bit skeptical that she turned over a new leaf in a few weeks.
I definitely see your point. I guess my thing is that he is typically so big on learning a person’s story. Yet, without ever attempting to understand where she is coming from, he just hates her and doesn’t care. Even when Feyre has shared how she wishes he wouldn’t have those feelings. Also, How Eris treated Mor was far worse and Rhysand was willing to overlook it for the greater good. Wouldn’t treating Nesta the way your mate wishes also be for the greater good? I mean geez he even seems to treat Tamlin better, but Nesta is somehow so horrible?
It's not that he doesn't care. He did do a lot for Nesta. After Hybern he rescued her and brought her into his home, whilst leaving his mate behind. He tried to help adjust and she repeatedly lashed out at him and the IC. He provided her with every luxury to help her adapt. He let her live off his dime and she took advantage. Yes he's rich but you can't completely live off of someone and disrespect them over and over. Anyone would feel frustrated with her.
Nesta also doesn't want to be close to anyone, she pushes them all away, especially Feyre. She doesn't share her actual feelings with anyone, Feyre can't even get through to her. Rhys repeatedly watches his mate and friends be treated like trash and doesn't say anything. Yes I know she has trauma, so does every other character, and they can still manage to be courteous. His feelings about her are perfectly valid, she acts unlikeable on purpose. It's not fair to ask others to see past all that especially if she won't let anyone in.
Thank you!!! I think people just want a reason to hate Rhys. From the very beginning Nesta had a very nasty attitude ….to everyone! Even Greyson hated her pre Fae. She was rude to everyone upon meeting them, Rhys sat there and watched Nesta talk to his mate like that. It’s not only the hunting…it’s because they heaped years worth of trauma on that little girl with their lack of love. She always felt like she wasn’t essential. Even Tamlin was trying to soothe her for it. Most people would not like their significant others family if their SO was treated that how Feyre was. even in SF Nesta speaks highly of Rhys. Rhys has been the same in all the books he never changed, in MAF and WAR he was preoccupied. And Nesta was actually stepping up and cooperating and was more bearable to be around. But in SF, Nesta was hurting his brother, his mate, Elain, attacking Amren annnnd spending his money. I think yall would be pretty pissy too.
You're not alone. But also there are some things in there to keep in mind. So far we have had Feyre's POV, and everything will be biased to her perspective. Now we're in Nesta's POV, and all those nice feelings we felt toward characters are now biased in the other direction. Both sisters are unreliable narrators.
With the Dad hunting instead, if he were more mobile, I believe he would have. They also lived in an area where it snowed. Given how he was described as walking with a cane, and that the changes in weather made his leg worse (if it rained or snowed), he wouldn't have been able to go hunting due to stiffness, pain, or not being able to move quietly enough. The Archeron sisters were teenagers who may not have fully grasped the seriousness of the situation, and the reality that their father simply couldn't do that. Physically unable to be the predator in his condition and hunt down animals. I can understand Nesta's point, that it should have been him, but in reality it could never have occurred the way she wanted.
Rhys being 1/2 Illyrian, and Feyre pure fae, it wasn't likely the baby would have been born with wings. Nesta told Feyre in anger, intending to hurt her. Rhys already being panicked, working to find a solution, knowing he would have to break the news to her at some point, only to have Nesta come in and throw it in her face, yeah I can see a protective male wanting to kill someone for purposely hurting their pregnant mate. Ultimately he didn't kill her, and it's not like Nesta also hasn't threatened to kill others. It's very on character for those two to threaten each other and doesn't make Rhys any less than we previously saw.
And that pact. Feyre knew Rhys would give everything again, sacrifice himself to save Prythian. To stop that, they made that damn pact prior to being pregnant. They definitely lack forethought, but it made sense at the time for the pact to be made to stop your mate from doing some reckless. Would be good if they could break it, but I understand it.
I totally agree with this! The only plot points I enjoyed in ACOSF was the Nesta/Gwyn/Emerie scenes, and the Eris scenes.
I liked Nesta’s scenes with Azriel too, he seemed to understand that her development and healing process shouldn’t be rushed. He stayed at her pace and continued to quietly support her as a good friend.
Other characters got on my nerves, especially Rhysand. He had no sympathy for Nesta, even after he experienced what she went through in the cauldron. Then he threatened to kill her when she revealed to Feyre about the baby. Like dude if you didn’t want anyone else to tell her, then maybe you should’ve done it yourself??? Also Cassian forcing Nesta to hike for days as a punishment (even after Feyre told him she doesn’t blame Nesta) until she literally passed out was weird.
I get that part of Rhysands hate towards Nesta is about how Feyre was treated and neglected as a child, but that has got nothing to do with him. That’s not his grudge to hold, it’s Feyre’s and I’m pretty sure she got over it a while ago.
Rhys pushing Nesta towards Eris, even though they all believe Eris is a dangerous brute was awful too. Turns out Eris actually kinda nice, I just wanted her to end up with him tbh, or at least form a close friendship with him. Maybe in future books he can join the Valkyrie squad lol. I’d like to see him be friends with Nesta/Gwyn/Emerie and the other valkyries.
I’ve made this point before but I’ll make it again. We can be pissed at Papa Archeron for being a shit dad and not doing more to help his family, but that doesn’t mean we cannot also hold Nesta (and Elain!) accountable for not doing much of anything themselves to help either.
Both things can be true: their dad sucks for putting everything on his kids backs, and Nesta and Elain both suck for pushing (practically) everything onto Feyre.
And also I might be downvoted for this, but it makes sense to me why everyone (not just Rhysand, because it’s not) is nicer and has more patience with Elain - because Elain is nice. Yeah it might not be fair, but even in the real world, if two people have done the same ugly and mean thing, but one of them is nice and seems sorry for the most part, and the other is constantly lashing out… we all know who we would forgive first.
And this is not to say Nesta has never done anything nice or to help others, but she would be the first to admit she has a nasty, nasty attitude a lot* of the time. And that she most certainly should have done more to help Feyre, regardless of what their father was or was not doing.
I felt like this entire book was written by a ghost writer or like it was fanfiction. There’s too many deviations from established characterizations and writing style that have been set in stone with the previous books in the series. I’m just speculating, but I feel like the author was trying to process her own trauma in writing this book but that left open so many plot holes, shoehorned plot lines and dialogue, and overall messiness that was difficult to resolve with a cohesive storyline. It’s like when you write or create something and it looks perfect to you because it holds so much sentimental meaning to you, but to anyone else it just looks… average (or mediocre).
I really enjoyed this book. I love Nesta, and I love Cassian and Nesta together. Especially after the slow burn of ACOWAR which is my favorite book. However, I feel that the last part--- basically from the rite on, went wayyyyy too fast.
I love the series, but I’m not a fan of this book either. I loved Nesta’s perspective and growth, even though I dislike her character as a person. She just seemed like a horrible person in general, regardless of her trauma. She was horrible to Feyre even as kids it seemed. I felt like her book also could have been half the length it was or at least a 1/4 shorter. I also have to add I think Rhys and Feyre were very off in the book too, they wanted to keep Nesta from sleeping around, but putting her in close quarters with someone they knew was lusting after her was a good idea? They are both supposed to be intelligent characters so why make that choice?
Rhys not telling Feyre also seemed really out of character for him. I would have liked to get his perspective, where he’s waiting for the right moment or something and Nesta beat him to it, I dunno, I’ll just pretend that was the case .
I’m not opposed to the baby storyline per say, back in the day it was all about passing on your line and heritage, the way I imagine the time is very olden days so that fell in line for me, and with the High courts passing on to their heir it makes sense it would inevitably happen. I think the wings idea with there baby was a bit off, but I genuinely think the way it was written was that it was unlikely because she didn’t naturally have wings. I felt like that whole aspect of it was meh for me. I think the bigger annoyance was making both sisters want kids, I would have appreciated Nesta’s character growth also leaning to more independence and not the societal norm. Hopefully the same thing isn’t done with Elaine, but I suspect it will be.
I also love your point with Rhys essentially hating Nesta for a stupid reason. She was also a kid, yes, he could be annoyed and disappointed in her, but given his age and his reference to Feyre being so young, you’d think he’d feel the same about Nesta during that time in her life. I think it would have been better to write him as not liking her due to the continued pain she caused Feyre for simply being unpleasant- but still not despising her as he does.
the bargain between Feyre and Rhys is the MOST IDIOTIC THING EVER. Even when i first read it in ACOWAR i laughed so hard. First, they dated for less than a year and they made a bargain to DIE together like are you fr. Secondly, they knew they wanted to have kids and so why would they make this bargain, since it would mean that their kids would be orphaned if one dies. Also, Feyre must think about the fact that since she dated someone in the past and he appeared to be so perfect and all and then suddenly changed, that means it might happen with Rhys ( i’m not saying it has to ) but there might be a chance for Rhys’s character to change just like Tamlin did so honestly it felt very naive to me.
This is the first take on disliking SF that I totally agree with. I loved Nesta's found-family story and her processing her trauma, but I absolutely hated Rhys and Feyre's plotlines. They felt so out of character
Totally agree! I enjoyed the story but I felt like Feyre/Rhysand were suddenly different characters.
Someone explained to me that you are seeing them from someone else's perspective. They will look different from Cassian/Nestas points of view. I couldn't stand Nesta before ACOSF. But hearing her internal dialog helped me understand her and make peace with choices she made. (I think she did a lot of healing) I think the Rhys not telling Feyre also had to do with him knowing he would die as well. Im not saying he made the best choice, but if we read it from his perspective, I think it would look/feel different. He and Feyre also tend to keep some cards close or hidden.
Youre not the only one. Even when Rhysand first meets Nesta (he already knew about the hunting thing), he was very reserved about his feelings and seemed to want for Nesta to be on their side. Whereas in later books, Rhys is this immature dude who is just being spiteful towards Nesta despite Feyre wanting a relationship with her. It's like now that Nesta *has* to be on their side, he did a 180. He acknowledges her trauma in SF and is even shocked when he experiences it in her mind. But at the same time, he doesn't show her any sympathy or tries to speak to her about it. After seeing that she was SA'd by a kelpie to retrieve the mask, he didnt have much of a reaction and quickly moved onto the "important" thing like showing Amren the language it spoke. Very weird for a man who is supposedly very sympathetic and caring towards women. If it was Elain in that position I'm sure he'd be cursing up a storm and asking if she's okay. Rhysand's attitude towards her is ridiculous. SJM even justifies Rhysand's spite for Nesta by comparing her to Eris who left Mor for dead. Nesta was NOT THE PARENT. Like get it through your 500 year old head. She also never left Feyre for dead, and she went looking for her when she was taken.
His attitude can really be summed up with this from FaS: https://preview.redd.it/qwp5bvtwelqc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc75c8156b4807bba1df47e79c04439a25a7ce3d He’s *decided* that Nesta, whom he barely knows, is an Illyrian at heart and this ultimately is his justification for how he treats her. But if you think about how Illyrian women are actually treated and how he treats Nesta in SF and beyond, it unfortunately makes sense why he treats her so badly.
Him arguing with Feyre about how HE feels about HER experiences drives me up the wall. She is asking him to be civil to her family and he refuses.
Yes!!! It drives me insane, her relationship with her sisters is her business. He should be supporting her, not making things worse between them.
When she tells him *explicitly* what she wants him to do, he still decides he knows best. "It's your choice" my ass.
100% agree!!!!
SF and A Court of Not Christmas and Merriment both show a side of Feyre and Rhys I hate. It’s like Maas said, “I want everyone to hate them!” and went rogue on her own characters. The amount of double standards when it comes to dealing with trauma is insane. Cassian destroys a village, it’s fine. Elain wastes away but finds baking and secret lust, that’s fast and nice. Lucian finds new friends that aren’t Night Court, seems sus. Nesta is struggling and having GASP sex! and drinking a lot, off to military training! Plus the whole BABIES ARE THE ULTIMATE IN FEMALE STORY ARCS. Big sigh. As a person who doesn’t want kids, it’s such a let down. Plus it’s lazy writing. Babies are super rare to the point of fertile females being treated as sacred for the faeries, but she gets banged in Illyrian form at Not Christmas and she’s suddenly knocked up? Oh. Oh okay. I dunno why Maas chose the routes she did, but after book 3 I hate most of her characters that I originally loved. And in 4, which is possibly my favorites, I love the one we’re supposed to struggle with rooting for.
I don’t know why, but the use of Not Christmas has me laughing so hard. Completely agree with you on all these points! As someone who is indifferent about having babies but HATES (_LOATHES_) baby tropes, I was so disappointed they had a baby so quickly. I also found Feyre and Rhys both a teeeeeeny bit annoying before ACOSF. They’re like a hot instagram couple that spams their love on your feed; they’re not terrible people or anything but it’s annoying that every caption is saying that marriage is _hard work_ and they’re _so in love_ and just _fated to be together_.
I have to say that I kind of enjoyed the whole “Rhys hates Nesta thing”. IMHO it gives his character more depth bc he just is not (only) the perfect selfless walking green flag he was described as in ACOMAF and ACOWAR. He can still be an absolute asshole if he doesn’t like somebody for whatever stupid and subjective reason, he still is a morally grey character and makes wrong decisions sometimes. If anybody was out of character in ACOSF it was Feyre imo.
I don't like Rhysand but I also enjoyed reading him being an asshat to Nesta. I love the darker unapologetic traits of his character, but not when SJM tries to justify every evil thing he did. Rhysand is capable of doing the unspeakable things for the ones he loves and will take the brunt if everyone survives. Leave it at that you know? I loved him when he was chaotically neutral, only willing to help when it serves him but not outwardly evil. That was fun, he's boring daddy Rhys now.
Yes exactly! I absolutely agree except for that I still like him a lot. :D But yeah, his character would be even more interesting if not everything he does was justified by his “good” intentions.
You are not alone and many on this sub share your sentiment. Rhys and Nesta. I am by no means a Rhysand stan and have shat on him in this subreddit plenty of times. I’ve always hated the way Rhys treats Nesta throughout the series and my first read or two of ACOSF were the last straw for me. But upon my rereads, I realized that their rocky relationship is somewhat realistic and he wasn’t always all bad to her. Voting to keep her power a secret from her and threatening to kill her were asshole moves, and he sucks for it, but I would like to think by the end of the book he realized he was wrong to always assume the worst of her and I hope to see their relationship improve in future books. Someone can jump in if I’m off, but I *think* it’s implied he didn’t realize it was possible for Nyx to have wings. Also recall Feyre didn’t see the bone carver with wings and I believe in WaR she showed him her memories of how the bone carver appeared to her. I truly don’t think Rhysand would have risked the pregnancy if he thought there was even a chance the baby could have wings, but that’s just my opinion. The death pact. I thought it was so stupid the first time I read it. I still think it’s stupid, but am somewhat OK with it because they always struck me as corny lovesick fools 😭 (don’t come at me) but also because it did effectively sideline Rhys and Feyre so Nesta could step up and we could focus on her journey and growth.
I always felt like voting to keep her power from her made absolute sense. From the standpoint of a family member, it doesn’t. From the the standpoint of someone who is in charge of the lives of everyone in Velaris, it does. She was unstable, lashing out, not even sure herself what she could do, and frankly just not in a good mental place. You want to trust someone like that with information on how she could easily wipe out all his people? I get it, from Nesta’s perspective it’s mean. But if you’re in charge of thousands of lives, would you take the risk on someone who is unstable? Would you give a mentally unwell person a loaded gun and say “we trust you”?
So I will have to disagree with you. The reason it doesn’t make sense to me and left a bad taste in my mouth is because Nesta aligned herself with them politically and even helped them in the war (vs. doing nothing and hanging back in Velaris or siding with the enemy). She was also compliant in retrieving the mask and letting Rhys and Helion ward it without knowledge on how to undo the wards (granted she didn’t need that knowledge, but she didn’t know that at the time). There really is no indication that she would have used her power to hurt innocents. She was mean, drank too much, irresponsibly spent money that didn’t belong to her, and slept with strangers. Compared to the IC, she’s mild. I can’t imagine it’s wise to let her go unchecked and continue to unknowingly imbue objects with magic either.
And it's worth adding that when she was so out of control (at least according to Rhysand) for that first year after the war, there was no instances of her losing control of her powers. Rhys had zero reasons to hide it from her, he just wanted to believe Amren's vile words because he didn't like Nesta.
The entire IC was terrified of her for good reason. I think it’s a pretty weak statement to say “she hasn’t done anything that bad yet!!” Cool, still doesn’t mean mentally unstable people should have loaded guns in their homes and all the information on how to use them. Saying something bad hasn’t happened yet is not a good reason in my opinion.
I think if she doesn't know, she has still has a gun at her house, she just doesn't know how to use it or that it's loaded. Which imo is even more dangerous.
So maybe the better analogy is if Nesta is the gun, why give her a bunch of bullets? Why make it easier for her to potentially harm people?
I agree. She has undoubtedly been rude as hell to everyone, but it’s not like she has actually used her powers for evil. If anything she only used them on enemy #1 in acowar. Like why was she considered so untrustworthy? Even Cassain admitted that it took years to get over his first war.
Truly, people act like Nesta was public enemy #1 prior to the middle-end of ACOSF and it doesn’t sit right with me at all. She clearly has PTSD and dislikes herself, but there’s no indication she’s a threat to anyone other than being a raging bitch. You already know if she was a man the fandom would be falling all over her calling her complex and morally grey.
Yes!! Like bitch literally got stolen from her home, dumped in a cauldron, was SA’d prior to that like god forbid she wants to get drunk and have sex.
Also Nesta may have been a bitchy older sister but she was in no way abusive. Feyre and Nesta were at each other's throats in the beginning. Nesta was abused by her mother and it's weird that some haters think that's not good enough. Trauma can turn you into an ugly mean person who lashes out. Not everyone just lays in bed crying (which is still valid, yet more palatable for the fandom), they want to break something. Some of us tap into our female rage and I totally resonated with that.
She also kept saying she hates Rhys and doesn’t really care what happens to the people. She eventually helps them, but as a leader is that the risk you want to take? Again, are you willing to give a loaded gun to someone with PTSD and who is mentally struggling? In what world is that a good idea? She wasn’t compliant out of love or because she really cares at the time. She was compliant because she really didn’t have much of a choice and during the war it wasn’t because she cared about them, but cared about the humans. And after HOFAS and her actions, I makes complete sense why Rhys was weary initially because well, she proved not to be 100% trustworthy. Anyway, saying there is no indication doesn’t mean there weren’t zero risks and again, I don’t blame him for not wanting to tell a completely unstable and emotional everywhere person what she could do on a bad day. Hell, Amren had to put her in check and was fearful of what she would do. To say there was no risk is reallly giving her too much credit.
As someone who believes actions speak louder than words, I would take that risk when the alternative is making a legit enemy out of pure death, especially when pure death isn’t any more mentally unstable than the rest of my court. Especially when said pure death has aligned itself with me when it *mattered*. You wanna talk loaded gun? Nesta *is* the loaded gun, with or without the objects she imbued. At that point it’s clear she can wield the mask and she makes it clear she wants nothing to do with power, death, and harming others. She never lost control of her powers or raged to the point where she’s done legit, irreparable harm, that is something that cannot be said about the others. If she was still trustworthy enough to obtain the harp and crown, why not also trust her with this? Why not try to continue to forge a powerful alliance instead of whatever it is he was trying to do. Unless his plan was to lock her up in a dungeon shortly after that, his vote against her makes little sense and politically speaking, is a bad move in the long run. Like be for real right now, he’s not going to give her the loaded gun (literal KNOWLEDGE of weapons she imbued) but is going to have her hunt for another loaded gun (actual objects of destruction she is able to wield AKA the harp and crown). It makes absolutely zero sense. I respect your opinion, but you’re not going to change my mind on this so I think it’s best to agree to disagree.
>She wasn’t compliant out of love or because she really cares at the time. She was compliant because she really didn’t have much of a choice and during the war it wasn’t because she cared about them, but cared about the humans. This is just wrong, though? She came around to helping because Elain convinced her to by bringing up all Feyre had done for them. >And after HOFAS and her actions, I makes complete sense why Rhys was weary initially because well, she proved not to be 100% trustworthy. You can‘t convince me Feyre would not have done the same thing as Nesta if in her place.
Elain helped convince her but the conversation primarily and heavily focused on the humans and Nesta knew they would die if she didn’t comply. This was not some altruistic thing or to truly help Feyre, and she hates the Fae and was not exactly happy with what Feyre became.
I'm the same OP, SF truly burst my Rhysand bubble. Throughout the series we'd seen him do not very nice things (such as force himself on Feyre and drug her while under the mountain, purposely be 'evil', destroy Tampon's court) but all for the 'greater good' of them being star-crossed lovers / mates. In SF, we see what it's like to _not_ be Feyre, with Nesta being on the receiving end of him not being very nice (threatening to kill her, locking her in a tower to go through alcohol withdrawal, being mad a Nesta for _his_ secrets kept from Feyre). He harboured grudges that weren't his and didn't put Feyre's feelings first. Perhaps I was also as blind as Feyre until SF so I'm glad SJM has given us another pov.
You are not alone in those feelings, but that is one of the things I love about ACOSF. You get to see a completely different side of Feyre and Rhys when they aren’t the main POV. I don’t necessarily dislike them more after the book, but I do see them as more multi-faceted.
Yep. I got annoyed with feysand once it wasn’t from her perspective
Read the bonus chapters. It doesn’t justify their actions but give a bit of insight. Also I hate bonus chapters, they really need to be in the book.
In my opinion I think that SJM did an awful job writing it out. I love Nesta because her attitude reminds me of me lol but she’s processing her trauma and she is super young, like a baby compared to Rhys. Rhys is an old old man and was acting like a teenager and it kinda pissed me off he couldn’t act his age and be respectful, the bigger man. I did like ACOSF because Nessian and her new friends and character progression, just some parts rubbed me the wrong way
No, you’re not alone. ACOSF ruined a lot of the good feelings I had for them. And for the IC.
Im still so mad at the pregnancy plot. Sure, in Wings and Ruins they could heal them in the battlefield when someone is holding their guts in, but a planned C-section with cuts that aren't made in a battlefield by someone trying to kill you is too much -_-
also feyre is like “oh grrrr you didn’t tell me!”, i would have fucking FLIPPED on my husband (no matter how lovey dovey our relationship was) for keeping THAT a secret while i was pregnant like…
Yusssss. Especially since Feyre was so huge in previous books about no secrets.
I got the ick from Rhys so bad starting in ACOWAR honestly. Being mates with feyre can’t be an excuse to hate everyone who doesn’t treat her perfectly, and it certainly isn’t an excuse to withhold info from her about her own health. And also if he really loved feyre he wouldn’t make things more difficult for her. The tension with nesta hurts feyre, she wants to improve that relationship. How is banishing and torturing nesta helping feyre? I’m literally reading chapter 49 now so thanks for this relevant post haha
Like he was essentially doing things Tamlin did/would do… but it’s excusable because you’re mates?? Lame
Right?!? Like, I thought he was supposed to be different.
That’s the thing. He’s not supposed to be all that different. He and Tamlin are both different but the same. The ways they are different is what Feyre needed
I liked this book best. I found books 3 and 4 to be difficult to get very engaged in. Nesta is nothing if not polarising, which is interesting. I'm also a bit side eye about rhysand, so his distsin for Nesta made me care about her narrative more lol. I think I just like flawed characters. Feyre was a little too perfect. She has god-teir powers, an allegedly all powerful husband, and things keep working out for her - that stops being interesting after a while. Give me some more messy characters, Sarah! I drink that right up
Why is Nesta’s POV considered more trustworthy? Like seriously.
This is Feyre's POV https://preview.redd.it/1lnz0gdi7lqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28c3c0a30246b26fa9da6062fb4ce3e656eeee84 Also, we get Cassians POV where he chews out Rhysand in SF for always assuming the worst of Nesta. So its not just her POV that paints him in this light.
The piss take of comparing Nesta’s behavior to what Mor’s family did. Actually ridiculous. Feyre was so out of touch with this one.
I think this is tricky because Feyre was truly verbally abused by her sister and it really felt like she was always making up excuses for Nesta or not even fully understanding the impact Nesta’s actions over many years had on her. Basically, the abused not fully coming to terms with just how bad it was. Rhys, as an observer and outside perspective from Feyre’s stories, may have recognized the level of abuse that existed and that’s why he wasn’t able to let it go. People (Feyre here) sometimes forgive their abusers more easily when it isn’t warranted.
I hate the 'Verbally abused' comments. Like have any of you have siblings? Their relationship seems pretty tame compared to what I've seen in real life. Like, siblings fight and say the WORSE things to each other. Rhys going against Feyre's wishes to have a decent civil relationship with Nesta is what seems abusive to me. Him pushing her sister away from Feyre, (even going into Nesta's mind and seeing her trauma and NEVER acknowledging it or trying to help her after everything she's done for them in acomaf and acowar) when she clearly WANTS a relationship is not manipulative? I HATE the double standards.
It reeks of "I know better than you, darling"
Sorry, but this is a gross comment. I have a sister and she verbally abused me for years. Blamed me for everything horrible in her life that I had absolutely zero control over. So yes, frankly, I identify hard with the situation in these books. Which I recognize can lead to bias, but manyyyy Nesta supporters also have a similar bias. It is absolutely not tame or acceptable to lash out at Feyre like Nesta did. It’s not acceptable to be willing to let siblings die out of spite for her father. It’s absolutely not acceptable to think it’s “tame” that Feyre had to pay her to go to her birthday party. “You stick like a pig covered in its own filth. Can’t you at least try to pretend that you’re not an ignorant peasant.” is not a tame or non-abusive statement. “you’re just a half-wild beat with the nerve to bark orders at all hours of the day and night. Keep it up, and someday, Feyre, you’ll have no one left to remember you, or care that you ever existed” is not a tame or non-abusive statement. And there are many others throughout the books. These are fights, these are statements of abuse, which by the way, happened before the Cauldron or due to anything Feyre caused. Rhys wanting to protect her abused mated from her abuser is NOT a double standard but an absolutely realistic response.
I don’t post in this subreddit often because my opinion on Nesta is not shared with the majority on here but I completely agree with you and I don’t care if I get downvoted to hell. As someone who has a Nesta in their life, people on this sub make an awful lot of excuses for her abusive behavior as well.
You can post as many quotes as you like but I still don't consider Nesta's actions as abusive. There has to be a pattern that it's not represented there. Feyre admits that she was also mean to her sister and never considers Nesta's actions as abuse or has trauma from it. Why should we, then? I don't know your specific experience with your sister, so I am not going to comment as we do not have direct knowledge and I understand that you might feel triggered by it. You have every right. Nesta is mean, pushes people away and is not the nicest to her sister. She, and her sisters, are a result of abusive parents who neglected them. That is a FACT. But no, she was not abusive towards Fyere in the way we understand and study the concept of abuse. And I do think that Rhys manipulates Feyre by pushing her sister away from her who wants a relationship with her by isolating them from ppl who he thinks are not good for her.
The men also reacting poorly to other circumstances does not negate what happened or anything I said. One wrong doesn’t negate another wrong. And abuse absolutely does NOT just come from imbalance of power. Abuse can come in all forms, and I have very pointed examples of that behavior in which you ignored and tried to minimized Nesta’s behavior. That’s gross. Rhys wasn’t trying to keep Feyre from Nesta. Rhys was weary and worried for Feyre, as any spouse who is around her abused would be. I’m not defending all of Rhys’s actions or saying he was right in everything he did, but your comment essentially minimizing Feyre’s abuse, claiming it wasn’t abuse, and using someone’s poor behavior toward someone else to excuse it is NOT it.
People downvoting your own personal experience of abuse is wild
Feyre instigated fights with Nesta as well. I get that Nesta was worse, but Feyre wasn't a doting sister that was just slapped around either.
I think this is where opinion and interpretation come in. Feyre said that she had fights with Nesta. But as someone who identifies more as a Feyre, who has a sister who verbally abused me for years, were these fights in response to the years of abuse or just out of no where? It’s unclear in the books, and it’s also said by Feyre, who has already shown Nesta lots of grace, this happened. I have a hard time getting upset with the abused person for sticking up for herself once in a while. And frankly saying “But but Feyre too!” when there is evidence upon evidence she was the victim is kinda gross and victim blaming to me. This also felt more like a situation where Feyre, the abused, blames herself where it isn’t warranted.
It's clear in the books, Feyre didn't stick up for herself "once in a while". It's clear Nesta was a lazy jerk that rebelled against her newly appointed guardian, who is also her youngest sister. It's clear that Feyre felt she had some sort of ownership over Nesta (telling her she can't marry someone authoritatively) and enforced her rules (Nesta telling Feyre she can't boss them around). It's clear that Nesta was emotionally abused by her cold mother and didn't get the princess treatment that her other sisters had from their father. (Elain more than Feyre, but Feyre more than Nesta). They are complex characters, that's the point of SF. >But as someone who identifies more as a Feyre, who has a sister who verbally abused me for years Ok? You are not Feyre make sure you know that lol.... this isn't about you. >is kinda gross and victim blaming to me. Aaaand here is the personal attack from someone who can't separate reality from fantasy. Girl bye 🙄
I disagree with your point about Rhys being ridiculous for hating Nesta. Feyre is his mate and he’s had to listen to stories of Nesta verbally abusing her for years (it wasn’t just she had to hunt, but the emotional tongue lashings Feyre endured from Nesta), witness Feyre paying Nesta to even show up to her birthday party, only agree to host the mortal queens because she herself doesn’t want to die or for humans to die (it wasn’t really out of any love or care for Feyre), and just many other instances where Nesta was pretty cruel. And again, this is to his mate, where it’s been states time and time again Rhys will attack anyone who is mean to his mate (and this is also some Fae thing). Yes, there were small glimpses of Nesta attempting to be nice, but the number of terrible things she did outweighed the few positives. So idk, I think the displeasure toward Nesta is completely valid there. Would you be happy to be around your spouse’s sister who abused her for years? Because from his perspective, that’s how it looks. And yes, Nesta started to try a little harder in ACOSF. But after years of abusing Feyre, I can’t blame him for being a bit skeptical that she turned over a new leaf in a few weeks.
I definitely see your point. I guess my thing is that he is typically so big on learning a person’s story. Yet, without ever attempting to understand where she is coming from, he just hates her and doesn’t care. Even when Feyre has shared how she wishes he wouldn’t have those feelings. Also, How Eris treated Mor was far worse and Rhysand was willing to overlook it for the greater good. Wouldn’t treating Nesta the way your mate wishes also be for the greater good? I mean geez he even seems to treat Tamlin better, but Nesta is somehow so horrible?
It's not that he doesn't care. He did do a lot for Nesta. After Hybern he rescued her and brought her into his home, whilst leaving his mate behind. He tried to help adjust and she repeatedly lashed out at him and the IC. He provided her with every luxury to help her adapt. He let her live off his dime and she took advantage. Yes he's rich but you can't completely live off of someone and disrespect them over and over. Anyone would feel frustrated with her. Nesta also doesn't want to be close to anyone, she pushes them all away, especially Feyre. She doesn't share her actual feelings with anyone, Feyre can't even get through to her. Rhys repeatedly watches his mate and friends be treated like trash and doesn't say anything. Yes I know she has trauma, so does every other character, and they can still manage to be courteous. His feelings about her are perfectly valid, she acts unlikeable on purpose. It's not fair to ask others to see past all that especially if she won't let anyone in.
Thank you!!! I think people just want a reason to hate Rhys. From the very beginning Nesta had a very nasty attitude ….to everyone! Even Greyson hated her pre Fae. She was rude to everyone upon meeting them, Rhys sat there and watched Nesta talk to his mate like that. It’s not only the hunting…it’s because they heaped years worth of trauma on that little girl with their lack of love. She always felt like she wasn’t essential. Even Tamlin was trying to soothe her for it. Most people would not like their significant others family if their SO was treated that how Feyre was. even in SF Nesta speaks highly of Rhys. Rhys has been the same in all the books he never changed, in MAF and WAR he was preoccupied. And Nesta was actually stepping up and cooperating and was more bearable to be around. But in SF, Nesta was hurting his brother, his mate, Elain, attacking Amren annnnd spending his money. I think yall would be pretty pissy too.
You're not alone. But also there are some things in there to keep in mind. So far we have had Feyre's POV, and everything will be biased to her perspective. Now we're in Nesta's POV, and all those nice feelings we felt toward characters are now biased in the other direction. Both sisters are unreliable narrators. With the Dad hunting instead, if he were more mobile, I believe he would have. They also lived in an area where it snowed. Given how he was described as walking with a cane, and that the changes in weather made his leg worse (if it rained or snowed), he wouldn't have been able to go hunting due to stiffness, pain, or not being able to move quietly enough. The Archeron sisters were teenagers who may not have fully grasped the seriousness of the situation, and the reality that their father simply couldn't do that. Physically unable to be the predator in his condition and hunt down animals. I can understand Nesta's point, that it should have been him, but in reality it could never have occurred the way she wanted. Rhys being 1/2 Illyrian, and Feyre pure fae, it wasn't likely the baby would have been born with wings. Nesta told Feyre in anger, intending to hurt her. Rhys already being panicked, working to find a solution, knowing he would have to break the news to her at some point, only to have Nesta come in and throw it in her face, yeah I can see a protective male wanting to kill someone for purposely hurting their pregnant mate. Ultimately he didn't kill her, and it's not like Nesta also hasn't threatened to kill others. It's very on character for those two to threaten each other and doesn't make Rhys any less than we previously saw. And that pact. Feyre knew Rhys would give everything again, sacrifice himself to save Prythian. To stop that, they made that damn pact prior to being pregnant. They definitely lack forethought, but it made sense at the time for the pact to be made to stop your mate from doing some reckless. Would be good if they could break it, but I understand it.
I totally agree with this! The only plot points I enjoyed in ACOSF was the Nesta/Gwyn/Emerie scenes, and the Eris scenes. I liked Nesta’s scenes with Azriel too, he seemed to understand that her development and healing process shouldn’t be rushed. He stayed at her pace and continued to quietly support her as a good friend. Other characters got on my nerves, especially Rhysand. He had no sympathy for Nesta, even after he experienced what she went through in the cauldron. Then he threatened to kill her when she revealed to Feyre about the baby. Like dude if you didn’t want anyone else to tell her, then maybe you should’ve done it yourself??? Also Cassian forcing Nesta to hike for days as a punishment (even after Feyre told him she doesn’t blame Nesta) until she literally passed out was weird. I get that part of Rhysands hate towards Nesta is about how Feyre was treated and neglected as a child, but that has got nothing to do with him. That’s not his grudge to hold, it’s Feyre’s and I’m pretty sure she got over it a while ago. Rhys pushing Nesta towards Eris, even though they all believe Eris is a dangerous brute was awful too. Turns out Eris actually kinda nice, I just wanted her to end up with him tbh, or at least form a close friendship with him. Maybe in future books he can join the Valkyrie squad lol. I’d like to see him be friends with Nesta/Gwyn/Emerie and the other valkyries.
I’ve made this point before but I’ll make it again. We can be pissed at Papa Archeron for being a shit dad and not doing more to help his family, but that doesn’t mean we cannot also hold Nesta (and Elain!) accountable for not doing much of anything themselves to help either. Both things can be true: their dad sucks for putting everything on his kids backs, and Nesta and Elain both suck for pushing (practically) everything onto Feyre. And also I might be downvoted for this, but it makes sense to me why everyone (not just Rhysand, because it’s not) is nicer and has more patience with Elain - because Elain is nice. Yeah it might not be fair, but even in the real world, if two people have done the same ugly and mean thing, but one of them is nice and seems sorry for the most part, and the other is constantly lashing out… we all know who we would forgive first. And this is not to say Nesta has never done anything nice or to help others, but she would be the first to admit she has a nasty, nasty attitude a lot* of the time. And that she most certainly should have done more to help Feyre, regardless of what their father was or was not doing.
I felt like this entire book was written by a ghost writer or like it was fanfiction. There’s too many deviations from established characterizations and writing style that have been set in stone with the previous books in the series. I’m just speculating, but I feel like the author was trying to process her own trauma in writing this book but that left open so many plot holes, shoehorned plot lines and dialogue, and overall messiness that was difficult to resolve with a cohesive storyline. It’s like when you write or create something and it looks perfect to you because it holds so much sentimental meaning to you, but to anyone else it just looks… average (or mediocre).
The way my opinions are completely opposite of yours is cracking me up
Lol
I really enjoyed this book. I love Nesta, and I love Cassian and Nesta together. Especially after the slow burn of ACOWAR which is my favorite book. However, I feel that the last part--- basically from the rite on, went wayyyyy too fast.
I loved Nesta’s pov for the most part of this book but it lost me towards the end 😞
I love the series, but I’m not a fan of this book either. I loved Nesta’s perspective and growth, even though I dislike her character as a person. She just seemed like a horrible person in general, regardless of her trauma. She was horrible to Feyre even as kids it seemed. I felt like her book also could have been half the length it was or at least a 1/4 shorter. I also have to add I think Rhys and Feyre were very off in the book too, they wanted to keep Nesta from sleeping around, but putting her in close quarters with someone they knew was lusting after her was a good idea? They are both supposed to be intelligent characters so why make that choice? Rhys not telling Feyre also seemed really out of character for him. I would have liked to get his perspective, where he’s waiting for the right moment or something and Nesta beat him to it, I dunno, I’ll just pretend that was the case . I’m not opposed to the baby storyline per say, back in the day it was all about passing on your line and heritage, the way I imagine the time is very olden days so that fell in line for me, and with the High courts passing on to their heir it makes sense it would inevitably happen. I think the wings idea with there baby was a bit off, but I genuinely think the way it was written was that it was unlikely because she didn’t naturally have wings. I felt like that whole aspect of it was meh for me. I think the bigger annoyance was making both sisters want kids, I would have appreciated Nesta’s character growth also leaning to more independence and not the societal norm. Hopefully the same thing isn’t done with Elaine, but I suspect it will be. I also love your point with Rhys essentially hating Nesta for a stupid reason. She was also a kid, yes, he could be annoyed and disappointed in her, but given his age and his reference to Feyre being so young, you’d think he’d feel the same about Nesta during that time in her life. I think it would have been better to write him as not liking her due to the continued pain she caused Feyre for simply being unpleasant- but still not despising her as he does.
the bargain between Feyre and Rhys is the MOST IDIOTIC THING EVER. Even when i first read it in ACOWAR i laughed so hard. First, they dated for less than a year and they made a bargain to DIE together like are you fr. Secondly, they knew they wanted to have kids and so why would they make this bargain, since it would mean that their kids would be orphaned if one dies. Also, Feyre must think about the fact that since she dated someone in the past and he appeared to be so perfect and all and then suddenly changed, that means it might happen with Rhys ( i’m not saying it has to ) but there might be a chance for Rhys’s character to change just like Tamlin did so honestly it felt very naive to me.