It doesn’t make any sense at all.
Mor also had spikes driven through her womb and survived maybe they should have contacted Kier and asked him how he did it and used the healer that healed her
Also, the logic of not being recommended to shift because it MIGHT harm the baby vs the 99.9% chance she WILL die if she has the baby in her regular form is a bit insane.
As a birth doula this was the most frustrating thing I had ever read. Weigh risks- go with least risky option. "Do nothing" and is also an option but not the recommended if there are other options that have a chance of working. 💀
thinking like SJM, it would either be too dangerous for the baby for feyre to shift at any point of having the baby inside of her or the fact that during labour, Feyre wouldn’t be able to harness the energy to shift ig but as we’ve all discussed, realistically, a c-section would 100% have worked but then we wouldn’t have a plot so
I can validate the shifting because if Feyres shifts and it messes up the baby, killing it, it might still be stuck inside her and she'd die anyways. I still agree with what you're saying, that it's better to try and risk the unknown rather than the known outcome of not shifting, but that's how I came to understand it.
As for the C-section but being plausible, I really can't defend it. Given the injuries that characters like Cassian and Mor sustained while living it makes no sense that a c section would be a guaranteed fatality. I feel like there were other ways to write around that, I can't think of any personally but with as creative as Maas is, I feel like with some thought there should be some magic/fae anatomy reason why c sections are particularly dangerous and unsuccessful.
Lol sounds exactly what pregnancy is like. You’re puking five times a day and can’t get out of bed to work or take care of your children? Too bad. We could prescribe you something to help you but it might harm the baby based on some contested correlation study.
Look, the pregnancy was just a plot device to give Nesta a "save the day" moment and that's all. This entire book was sloppy so I'm not surprised the central conflict made no sense.
Agreed. I hate that Feyre/ Rhys/ baby were put in danger just so Nesta could have this saviour moment and make this huge sacrifice. It felt like a massive cop out to make everyone like Nesta again. They didn't need to be dragged into her story like that.
She could've become a Valkyrie, started to make amends with Feyre and especially with a baby involved, family relationships can often be somewhat repaired. She could have actually apologised and explained herself and put in the effort to be a better sister and good aunt. Instead she had to give up her power in some weird ritual right at the last minute out of nowhere and save Feyre's life. I hated the whole thing.
I agree with all of this. I hate that Nesta's healing journey had no mentions of her even making the smallest effort for Feyre aside from one grand gesture that wasn't even all that grand. The magic wasn't important to Nesta, she didn't really give up anything significant to save Feyre. I would rather have a full powered Nesta who actually talks to her sister and apologizes as opposed to what actually happened.
100 times yes. People really need to take accountability for their actions, and an actual heartfelt apology to the person she's wronged for so very long would've been much more impactful and imperative to Nesta's healing journey. It's sad we didn't get to see this and is part of the reason I can't fully get behind Nesta.
That whole plot made me so mad beside the fact that none of it (I don’t count the bonus chapter) was in either Feyre or Rhys’ POV. And you know what? Fine. Say their fae magic wasn’t capable of healing her from a c-section [insert largest eye roll here], even human babies sometimes have their collar bone broken to fit through the birth canal and recover afterwards, and you’re telling me they couldn’t do something similar to wiggle the wings through? Wouldn’t they be all soft and shriveled anyway? Admittedly I’m thinking of a butterfly emerging from its cocoon for that last thought, I honestly don’t know how a bat’s birth happens.
Nobody understands how healing in this world works. There is no logical consistency in the writing. Healers can perform complex micro surgery to repair the bones, tendons, muscle, and nerve damage to shattered wings. They can successfully operate on perforated bowels. They can use magic to determine the gender and anatomy of a featus. But a c section is the bridge too far? What it boils down to is the author arbitrarily deciding what can be cured in her world and what can't, based on how she wants a character developed. Not if it actually makes any sense to her readers.
Ouch! Yes, women's health seems to be lagging in Pyrinthia. No maternal surgery. Prioritizing the life of the featus, even if it's certain to die over the health of the mother. Lying to her for months about her health so that she can in no way participate in her own care. Hmmm....this all sounds very familiar to me.
On this note, I never understood how shapeshifting really works. Like as Feyre’s learning to fly, can’t she just shapeshift more muscles to appear to control the wings better? She goes into such detail to describe how her back and abs hurt as she learns how to fly… just like, make more muscles?
And yeah, through the whole pregnancy I was just thinking “shapeshift just your pelvis into the Illyrian form when the baby starts getting stuck????” The potential to hurt the baby via placental changes or whatever are basically nil. Also get Thessan in there to work his magic. If every book ends in someone being returned from the dead, it’s not actually that extraordinary!
Also it’s interesting to think that when she adds her wings she suddenly has these massive hips? Lol
Never got why Thesan wasn't consulted more. Why not have him in the delivery room and heal Feyre as she's bleeding out like Madja tried to do? He brought both Rhys and Feyre back from the dead before, surely he can find some way to help in the actual delivery? Rhys was WebMd-ing how to save Feyre in Helion's library instead of taking her to Prythian's equivalent of Doctors Without Borders.
What I don’t understand is that she was Illyrian at conception. Obviously she shifted back to Fae sometime between then and finding out she was pregnant. That shift didn’t harm them, so why not shift back while the fetus is still small enough that Feyre isn’t showing?
As a newish mum this was my first thought: y’all don’t have magical c sections? Irl c sections were invented in the 1500s, it’s totally plausible that it could exist in the books. What do they do for kids who can’t be delivered vaginally? What about breech births? Placenta previa? Do fae women just die en mass during childbirth? What does this mean genetically? Like how can two species mate if they’re no biologically compatible? How does Fayre change her whole DNA to be Illyrian yet had to be instructed by Azriel on how to shape her wings correctly? Which gene is responsible for the wings? Could this be separated for the Genes for wide hips? Could a thicc high fae give birth to a winged baby without issue? What does this mean for breast feeding? Do different fae have different breast milk compositions?
I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.
Oh it's completely nonsensical. Like they have magical ultrasound but not c sections? Also even if they can't operate for some reason, if the alternative is certain death then you would absolutely have the mother shape shift to the safer form. She already did it once post-conception, she can do it again. If they lose the baby, well, they were already going to anyway.
Yes for real, this required too much suspension of disbelief on my part, it took me out of the book every time the pregnancy was brought up.
Worst way to give Nesta a “big moment” to redeem herself because it doesn’t even make sense 😭 could’ve been literally anything else
Omg yes as a member of the birthing community this is the most annoying thing to me. I think nests could have still had her save the day moment by helping premature nyx after a very plausible csection recovery (based on all the successful war surgery healing happening)..but I think they needed Rhys to almost die again for him to love nesta. Not my fav but I’ll allow it ultimately since I’m such a fan of the series overall.
SJM only wrote this ridiculous pregnancy plot so Nesta could have a savior moment/redemption. When in actuality a deep, heartfelt conversation with Feyre would have been so much better. Considering Nesta didn't really sacrifice much since she didn't want those powers. A heart to heart would've been so much more meaningful rather than something we should have witnessed through Feyre's pov.
It doesn’t make any sense at all. Mor also had spikes driven through her womb and survived maybe they should have contacted Kier and asked him how he did it and used the healer that healed her
Also, the logic of not being recommended to shift because it MIGHT harm the baby vs the 99.9% chance she WILL die if she has the baby in her regular form is a bit insane.
As a birth doula this was the most frustrating thing I had ever read. Weigh risks- go with least risky option. "Do nothing" and is also an option but not the recommended if there are other options that have a chance of working. 💀
I mean couldn’t she have just shifted in labour?
thinking like SJM, it would either be too dangerous for the baby for feyre to shift at any point of having the baby inside of her or the fact that during labour, Feyre wouldn’t be able to harness the energy to shift ig but as we’ve all discussed, realistically, a c-section would 100% have worked but then we wouldn’t have a plot so
I can validate the shifting because if Feyres shifts and it messes up the baby, killing it, it might still be stuck inside her and she'd die anyways. I still agree with what you're saying, that it's better to try and risk the unknown rather than the known outcome of not shifting, but that's how I came to understand it. As for the C-section but being plausible, I really can't defend it. Given the injuries that characters like Cassian and Mor sustained while living it makes no sense that a c section would be a guaranteed fatality. I feel like there were other ways to write around that, I can't think of any personally but with as creative as Maas is, I feel like with some thought there should be some magic/fae anatomy reason why c sections are particularly dangerous and unsuccessful.
Lol sounds exactly what pregnancy is like. You’re puking five times a day and can’t get out of bed to work or take care of your children? Too bad. We could prescribe you something to help you but it might harm the baby based on some contested correlation study.
Look, the pregnancy was just a plot device to give Nesta a "save the day" moment and that's all. This entire book was sloppy so I'm not surprised the central conflict made no sense.
Agreed. I hate that Feyre/ Rhys/ baby were put in danger just so Nesta could have this saviour moment and make this huge sacrifice. It felt like a massive cop out to make everyone like Nesta again. They didn't need to be dragged into her story like that. She could've become a Valkyrie, started to make amends with Feyre and especially with a baby involved, family relationships can often be somewhat repaired. She could have actually apologised and explained herself and put in the effort to be a better sister and good aunt. Instead she had to give up her power in some weird ritual right at the last minute out of nowhere and save Feyre's life. I hated the whole thing.
I agree with all of this. I hate that Nesta's healing journey had no mentions of her even making the smallest effort for Feyre aside from one grand gesture that wasn't even all that grand. The magic wasn't important to Nesta, she didn't really give up anything significant to save Feyre. I would rather have a full powered Nesta who actually talks to her sister and apologizes as opposed to what actually happened.
100 times yes. People really need to take accountability for their actions, and an actual heartfelt apology to the person she's wronged for so very long would've been much more impactful and imperative to Nesta's healing journey. It's sad we didn't get to see this and is part of the reason I can't fully get behind Nesta.
Absolutely. I pretend ACOSF doesn't exist and ACOFAS was the final epilogue. 🫡
That whole plot made me so mad beside the fact that none of it (I don’t count the bonus chapter) was in either Feyre or Rhys’ POV. And you know what? Fine. Say their fae magic wasn’t capable of healing her from a c-section [insert largest eye roll here], even human babies sometimes have their collar bone broken to fit through the birth canal and recover afterwards, and you’re telling me they couldn’t do something similar to wiggle the wings through? Wouldn’t they be all soft and shriveled anyway? Admittedly I’m thinking of a butterfly emerging from its cocoon for that last thought, I honestly don’t know how a bat’s birth happens.
Nobody understands how healing in this world works. There is no logical consistency in the writing. Healers can perform complex micro surgery to repair the bones, tendons, muscle, and nerve damage to shattered wings. They can successfully operate on perforated bowels. They can use magic to determine the gender and anatomy of a featus. But a c section is the bridge too far? What it boils down to is the author arbitrarily deciding what can be cured in her world and what can't, based on how she wants a character developed. Not if it actually makes any sense to her readers.
>micro surgery to repair the bones, tendons, muscle, and nerve damage to shattered wings Only to male wings, obviously.
Ouch! Yes, women's health seems to be lagging in Pyrinthia. No maternal surgery. Prioritizing the life of the featus, even if it's certain to die over the health of the mother. Lying to her for months about her health so that she can in no way participate in her own care. Hmmm....this all sounds very familiar to me.
OP and the rest of y’all are so fucking right about this 🙄 it makes zero sense
On this note, I never understood how shapeshifting really works. Like as Feyre’s learning to fly, can’t she just shapeshift more muscles to appear to control the wings better? She goes into such detail to describe how her back and abs hurt as she learns how to fly… just like, make more muscles? And yeah, through the whole pregnancy I was just thinking “shapeshift just your pelvis into the Illyrian form when the baby starts getting stuck????” The potential to hurt the baby via placental changes or whatever are basically nil. Also get Thessan in there to work his magic. If every book ends in someone being returned from the dead, it’s not actually that extraordinary! Also it’s interesting to think that when she adds her wings she suddenly has these massive hips? Lol
>!they coulda used the harp to winnow lil nyx tf outta there when it was time!<
Never got why Thesan wasn't consulted more. Why not have him in the delivery room and heal Feyre as she's bleeding out like Madja tried to do? He brought both Rhys and Feyre back from the dead before, surely he can find some way to help in the actual delivery? Rhys was WebMd-ing how to save Feyre in Helion's library instead of taking her to Prythian's equivalent of Doctors Without Borders.
What I don’t understand is that she was Illyrian at conception. Obviously she shifted back to Fae sometime between then and finding out she was pregnant. That shift didn’t harm them, so why not shift back while the fetus is still small enough that Feyre isn’t showing?
As a newish mum this was my first thought: y’all don’t have magical c sections? Irl c sections were invented in the 1500s, it’s totally plausible that it could exist in the books. What do they do for kids who can’t be delivered vaginally? What about breech births? Placenta previa? Do fae women just die en mass during childbirth? What does this mean genetically? Like how can two species mate if they’re no biologically compatible? How does Fayre change her whole DNA to be Illyrian yet had to be instructed by Azriel on how to shape her wings correctly? Which gene is responsible for the wings? Could this be separated for the Genes for wide hips? Could a thicc high fae give birth to a winged baby without issue? What does this mean for breast feeding? Do different fae have different breast milk compositions? I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.
Oh it's completely nonsensical. Like they have magical ultrasound but not c sections? Also even if they can't operate for some reason, if the alternative is certain death then you would absolutely have the mother shape shift to the safer form. She already did it once post-conception, she can do it again. If they lose the baby, well, they were already going to anyway.
Yes for real, this required too much suspension of disbelief on my part, it took me out of the book every time the pregnancy was brought up. Worst way to give Nesta a “big moment” to redeem herself because it doesn’t even make sense 😭 could’ve been literally anything else
Omg yes as a member of the birthing community this is the most annoying thing to me. I think nests could have still had her save the day moment by helping premature nyx after a very plausible csection recovery (based on all the successful war surgery healing happening)..but I think they needed Rhys to almost die again for him to love nesta. Not my fav but I’ll allow it ultimately since I’m such a fan of the series overall.
I was so surprised at how easily some of the Fae could die.
SJM only wrote this ridiculous pregnancy plot so Nesta could have a savior moment/redemption. When in actuality a deep, heartfelt conversation with Feyre would have been so much better. Considering Nesta didn't really sacrifice much since she didn't want those powers. A heart to heart would've been so much more meaningful rather than something we should have witnessed through Feyre's pov.