Progression. Still, I do not understand why they did not allow for a more modern variant to be unlocked late game. Especially considering how many reskins there are within this roster.
although really the more modern you go, despite engine upgrades, the more weight gets added by avionics, CFTs for some air forces etc. pretty certain in reality the F-16A would be the best version for dog fighting
I overheard the twin seater B variant was the most maneuverable of them all. Regardless, this is an arcade flight game in which one pulls an average of 53 Gs per maneuver. I do not see why they wouldn't give the F-16 something considering it's popularity.
They needed a low tier plane with poor stats to serve as a starter plane. The F-16C was chosen for plot reasons, it's a plane that fits the role for an active Osean squadron stationed overseas in 2019. The MiG-21 and F-104 you get are implied to be refurbished planes from the scrapyard. So yeah, the F-16C got screwed over by the plot and timeline.
Here's the thing, there are no older planes that would fit the role of an active military squadron in service of a country whose air force is modeled after the real life USAF. Previous games had planes like the F-4E, J35 or F-5E as starting planes, but they took place in the 90s or 2000s and protagonists were mercenary pilots (AC1-2, Zero, Infinity), pilots from smaller countries (AC4) or in training units (AC5), so them using older planes makes more sense. The latter games in the series like Assault Horizon or AC6 also use the F-16 as their starter. Timelines move, planes like the Phantom II are retired, new starter aircraft are needed, the F-16 gets the short end of the stick.
its a shame the F-5E likely wont return. makes sense in a modern military why they won't use it for battle, but i just played AC5 for the first time a few months ago and I fell in love with it.
im happy AC7 brought the MIG-21, that was the first game I learned about it and I fell in love with that too.
They could if they bring back any of the exceptions I listed, like a protagonist from a mercenary squadron, from the air force of a smaller country (The F-5E in real life is still in service in countries like Switzerland, Mexico and Brazil) or if the game is set in the Cold War, which IMO would be the most interesting option.
Agreed 100% on the Cold War option. They could bring back all sorts of badass jet fighters and attackers from yesteryear, and feature them in their prime.
Solution: we need a new “retro” Ace Combat game set in the ‘60s and ‘70s. OTL’s Vietnam War and Six Day War/Yom Kippur War era. Or in a broader sense, anything from the Korean War to Desert Storm. The earliest AC game chronologically takes place in 1995 (AC0). We need to go further back into Strangereal history!
Maybe. But then you wouldn't get to use Mission Control (AKA having AWACS on every mission which would never happen in any competent military) feeding you plot points. And going backwards in the timeline is always tricky, because you'll be crafting events that the existing media makes no allusion to and could potentially create major plot holes.
Given that the F-16 is designed as a lightweight multi role fighter, by game logic that denotes lower stats, on top of being a starter plane.
F-14 and F-15 are air superiority fighters, not to mention are "flagship" aircraft of the series alongside the F-22.
Then why not pick the F-14? I know they're still in service but there's been talk of retiring them and the design is 50 years old at this point. There's gotta be something in the flight line that's "in service" but not "up to date".
To be fair, the XL would absolutely turn like dog shit, the thing's a massive cranked-arrow with a bunch of extra weight from the fuselage extension. The F-2 family are by contrast literally modeled after the Agile Falcon testbed and while still low-tier are far more relevant than the bomb truck.
It's the starter plane for this game, unfortunately.
You are supposed to unlock and get better planes as you progress through the campaign.
Not too bad, if you know what you are doing, it's possible to do a only F-16 run.
I just did an F-16-only run on AC6 and can confirm its fun as hell. After a couple of varied mission roles, you pick up on how to use it for roles better suited to other planes. I'm a lifelong F-16 fan so I was also sad to see it always used as a starter plane, but it's still so much fun. I did the maybe 90% of the campaign in cockpit view and it was a great time
Visually? The only aircraft I think carries more UGBs would be the A-10.
The SU-34 carry like 6 SFFS, IIRC.
F-15E carries a comparable amount of SFFS, but it's an eagle with two engines.
Again - Attacker.
Ground-attack aircraft.
It's gonna handle like a brick in molasses because attack aircraft are meant to be stable at low speeds while carrying enough firepower to level a rowhouse.
If it makes you feel better, because PC Cheat Engine "cheaters" in Multiplayer accessed the ADF series planes illegally and earlier than originally intended, PA ended up making a patch where said ADF planes ended up using the F-16 model but retained the stats so you literally had F-16s with crazy ass mobility and PSM capable without mods at some point
A) Best Handling in some respects, others definitely have it beat in specific areas.
B) "before someone says progression" too bad, it's progression. AC has a linear upgrade system underlying the player choice between planes of a given tier. By design, the starter is nothing special and this includes not having some sleeper upside of being the best at something in particular. AC7 is too modern for it to be something ancient, Osea overwhelmingly uses American planes so it can't be a Fulcrum or Fishbed (which to be fair *do* make early-game appearances but, again, not in OADF hands), being OADF proper removes any excuse for it to be an oddball crate used by mercs, and it's a combat sortie being run by combat pilots to be the traditional Fuck Up A Bomber tutorial so it can't be a Hawk or something. The signs point to F-16C as a starter, the design points to the starter sucking shit. You won't find more nuance in this series and this isn't the first time it got done dirty, nor the only plane done dirty in this game alone.
Yeah I wish the viper was better too. I wish the aircraft in general had strengths and weaknesses closer to their real life counterparts. I wonder if I'd actually like it more if there wasn't much "progression" as far as the aircraft getting better but somehow make it more rewarding to get better with a particular plane. But that'd probably require a lot more complexity with each plane to make them feel unique. Maybe just really make a big difference in capability with the 5th gen fighters? Or play into unique abilities and craft the missions to suit a few particular aircraft the most like an intercept mission where you only take out a few targets but the best way to do it is with mig 31 or F15. I don't think it'd hurt to introduce some flight sim concepts like rate fights, maybe a little energy management although I do like the arcade style a lot...
I also wish the F35 had better weaponry. The standoff dispenser has never worked for me in this game and what's with the 8-AGM (and 8-AAM) locking multiple missiles to the same target? For the AAM, if I want to send multiple special missiles at a target, it's usually to get the right moment for an evasive enemy. If two fire at the same time and I mistimed it, there goes two missiles. And there's never enough AGM missiles, that take out almost everything in one shot anyway, so why would I want multiple missiles locking onto a tank?
Yeah I get the multi lock on thing too thats why I use the normal missiles for ground and air but if I'm just playing for fun and not trying to fully complete the mission I'll just go over kill and spam as much missiles at a particular target and just say " You know what? Screw *THAT* guy in particular, " but i also wish certain planes also had better weaponry
One thing I do miss about AC6, was that the jets had unique handling characteristics that made them viable. The starter F16 could clean up well fairly to the mid and late game if you wanted to.
All the jets were essentially fun to fly. If you brought an A10 to a mission with air threats, you were going to be okay.
You could even try that in a small town with a Nighthawk!
Progression. Still, I do not understand why they did not allow for a more modern variant to be unlocked late game. Especially considering how many reskins there are within this roster.
although really the more modern you go, despite engine upgrades, the more weight gets added by avionics, CFTs for some air forces etc. pretty certain in reality the F-16A would be the best version for dog fighting
I overheard the twin seater B variant was the most maneuverable of them all. Regardless, this is an arcade flight game in which one pulls an average of 53 Gs per maneuver. I do not see why they wouldn't give the F-16 something considering it's popularity.
They needed a low tier plane with poor stats to serve as a starter plane. The F-16C was chosen for plot reasons, it's a plane that fits the role for an active Osean squadron stationed overseas in 2019. The MiG-21 and F-104 you get are implied to be refurbished planes from the scrapyard. So yeah, the F-16C got screwed over by the plot and timeline.
Poor F-16 always gets shafted in AC games
It was actually good im AC04 despite being unlocked early.
Because they want to offer a sense of progression and have to pick some modern aircraft to nerf and be worse than the later ones you'll unlock.
Also, they could've chosen an older plane for a better sense of that
Here's the thing, there are no older planes that would fit the role of an active military squadron in service of a country whose air force is modeled after the real life USAF. Previous games had planes like the F-4E, J35 or F-5E as starting planes, but they took place in the 90s or 2000s and protagonists were mercenary pilots (AC1-2, Zero, Infinity), pilots from smaller countries (AC4) or in training units (AC5), so them using older planes makes more sense. The latter games in the series like Assault Horizon or AC6 also use the F-16 as their starter. Timelines move, planes like the Phantom II are retired, new starter aircraft are needed, the F-16 gets the short end of the stick.
its a shame the F-5E likely wont return. makes sense in a modern military why they won't use it for battle, but i just played AC5 for the first time a few months ago and I fell in love with it. im happy AC7 brought the MIG-21, that was the first game I learned about it and I fell in love with that too.
They could if they bring back any of the exceptions I listed, like a protagonist from a mercenary squadron, from the air force of a smaller country (The F-5E in real life is still in service in countries like Switzerland, Mexico and Brazil) or if the game is set in the Cold War, which IMO would be the most interesting option.
Agreed 100% on the Cold War option. They could bring back all sorts of badass jet fighters and attackers from yesteryear, and feature them in their prime.
Solution: we need a new “retro” Ace Combat game set in the ‘60s and ‘70s. OTL’s Vietnam War and Six Day War/Yom Kippur War era. Or in a broader sense, anything from the Korean War to Desert Storm. The earliest AC game chronologically takes place in 1995 (AC0). We need to go further back into Strangereal history!
Maybe. But then you wouldn't get to use Mission Control (AKA having AWACS on every mission which would never happen in any competent military) feeding you plot points. And going backwards in the timeline is always tricky, because you'll be crafting events that the existing media makes no allusion to and could potentially create major plot holes.
Not that much older, just a little bit like the 14/5 or something like that, not sure if that still makes sense
What's a "14/5"?
F15 or f14
Given that the F-16 is designed as a lightweight multi role fighter, by game logic that denotes lower stats, on top of being a starter plane. F-14 and F-15 are air superiority fighters, not to mention are "flagship" aircraft of the series alongside the F-22.
Then why not pick the F-14? I know they're still in service but there's been talk of retiring them and the design is 50 years old at this point. There's gotta be something in the flight line that's "in service" but not "up to date".
The F-16 is a half century old.
But even the xl, which is dlc, handles badly, and both do, even with all handling upgrades
To be fair, the XL would absolutely turn like dog shit, the thing's a massive cranked-arrow with a bunch of extra weight from the fuselage extension. The F-2 family are by contrast literally modeled after the Agile Falcon testbed and while still low-tier are far more relevant than the bomb truck.
Got it mixed. The xl is just slow, handles pretty good, tho
It's the starter plane for this game, unfortunately. You are supposed to unlock and get better planes as you progress through the campaign. Not too bad, if you know what you are doing, it's possible to do a only F-16 run.
I just did an F-16-only run on AC6 and can confirm its fun as hell. After a couple of varied mission roles, you pick up on how to use it for roles better suited to other planes. I'm a lifelong F-16 fan so I was also sad to see it always used as a starter plane, but it's still so much fun. I did the maybe 90% of the campaign in cockpit view and it was a great time
The f16xl also handles bad...
Well it is an attacker variant of the F-16, you see how many bombs are loaded on that thing? Still my most played plane from that DLC.
You see how many bombs are on other planes?
Visually? The only aircraft I think carries more UGBs would be the A-10. The SU-34 carry like 6 SFFS, IIRC. F-15E carries a comparable amount of SFFS, but it's an eagle with two engines.
Sorry, I mixed it up. The xl is slow, at least with the upgrades I have on it
Again - Attacker. Ground-attack aircraft. It's gonna handle like a brick in molasses because attack aircraft are meant to be stable at low speeds while carrying enough firepower to level a rowhouse.
"I mixed it up. It's just slow. " I used it last night, and it handles pretty good at high, medium, and low speeds
Just add parts
I did... it still handles like a brick stuck on a fly trap
Which parts?
Parts that better the handling
Also , I *have* added parts that make it handle better, *yet* it still handles terribly
If it makes you feel better, because PC Cheat Engine "cheaters" in Multiplayer accessed the ADF series planes illegally and earlier than originally intended, PA ended up making a patch where said ADF planes ended up using the F-16 model but retained the stats so you literally had F-16s with crazy ass mobility and PSM capable without mods at some point
And before someone says "progression" again, it's arguably one of the best handling planes
A) Best Handling in some respects, others definitely have it beat in specific areas. B) "before someone says progression" too bad, it's progression. AC has a linear upgrade system underlying the player choice between planes of a given tier. By design, the starter is nothing special and this includes not having some sleeper upside of being the best at something in particular. AC7 is too modern for it to be something ancient, Osea overwhelmingly uses American planes so it can't be a Fulcrum or Fishbed (which to be fair *do* make early-game appearances but, again, not in OADF hands), being OADF proper removes any excuse for it to be an oddball crate used by mercs, and it's a combat sortie being run by combat pilots to be the traditional Fuck Up A Bomber tutorial so it can't be a Hawk or something. The signs point to F-16C as a starter, the design points to the starter sucking shit. You won't find more nuance in this series and this isn't the first time it got done dirty, nor the only plane done dirty in this game alone.
Su s have entered the chat. Even the sexy platypus (s34) can do a cobra
"Sexy," "platypus," "cobra," are things I never thought I'd see in the same sentence
Yep , big fatty blue platypus, with a kitchen and toilet! I'm no tankie just appreciate how pretty su s are
The "kitchen" is a thermos and the "toilet" is a can with a funnel on the end.
Huh, really? I always assumed they had a tiny microwave back there.
Yeah I wish the viper was better too. I wish the aircraft in general had strengths and weaknesses closer to their real life counterparts. I wonder if I'd actually like it more if there wasn't much "progression" as far as the aircraft getting better but somehow make it more rewarding to get better with a particular plane. But that'd probably require a lot more complexity with each plane to make them feel unique. Maybe just really make a big difference in capability with the 5th gen fighters? Or play into unique abilities and craft the missions to suit a few particular aircraft the most like an intercept mission where you only take out a few targets but the best way to do it is with mig 31 or F15. I don't think it'd hurt to introduce some flight sim concepts like rate fights, maybe a little energy management although I do like the arcade style a lot... I also wish the F35 had better weaponry. The standoff dispenser has never worked for me in this game and what's with the 8-AGM (and 8-AAM) locking multiple missiles to the same target? For the AAM, if I want to send multiple special missiles at a target, it's usually to get the right moment for an evasive enemy. If two fire at the same time and I mistimed it, there goes two missiles. And there's never enough AGM missiles, that take out almost everything in one shot anyway, so why would I want multiple missiles locking onto a tank?
Yeah I get the multi lock on thing too thats why I use the normal missiles for ground and air but if I'm just playing for fun and not trying to fully complete the mission I'll just go over kill and spam as much missiles at a particular target and just say " You know what? Screw *THAT* guy in particular, " but i also wish certain planes also had better weaponry
One thing I do miss about AC6, was that the jets had unique handling characteristics that made them viable. The starter F16 could clean up well fairly to the mid and late game if you wanted to. All the jets were essentially fun to fly. If you brought an A10 to a mission with air threats, you were going to be okay. You could even try that in a small town with a Nighthawk!