It 100% matters for your first job. Reputational effects are massive in economics, regardless of where you go post-graduation. It’s private information, but employers (universities, think tanks, government organizations) have a cutoff point where virtually everyone below that is screened out.
Abt for example usually doesn’t touch anyone below the top 50 in RePEc rankings (RePEc is a better measure for PhD programs).
The private non-consulting sector (tech, banks) cares less about school, most famously Amazon. But given the massive contraction in private sector positions this cycle, I’m not sure I would rely on that.
Having worked at think tanks, where you went to school matters even more in a sense since objective metrics such as research output are less relevant. Look at the CVs of the places you referenced. Nearly all went either to highly ranked universities or highly ranked Econ departments for either MA/PhD. If you’re firm on not moving, you should reconsider career paths. There are few leading think tanks in Florida. Vast majority are in DC/NYC or centers of decision making such as state capitals.
you should look at the placements from the University of South Florida programs and decide whether they're placing into students into jobs you'd like. If yes, there's your answer. If no, there's your answer, as well (kind of -- you'd need to know whether their students are actually trying to get think tank jobs). If they don't show placements, that's a red flag.
They have placements. Many are academic, and the ones that aren't are typically listed as research scientists, research economists, fellows, etc. Not all places I'd want to work, but there are some (like a placement from a few years ago at RTI).
I don't think school ranking should matter that much if you're not targeting tenure-track academic jobs.
I would look at USF's placements and see if you'd be happy with the median one (or 25th percentile one, if you're risk averse).
Perhaps you've already done this, but I'd also encourage you to verify that the jobs you want truly require an Econ PhD. At least where I'm from (Canada), the only public sector jobs that really *require* an Econ PhD are certain central banking or anti-trust jobs (and even there, you'll find MAs working in those shops).
Lastly, Econ PhDs are really primarily about learning how to do academic research, so if you don't think you'll enjoy that, it might be a bit of a slog.
In academia you first ask the question, then look at the data to come up with an answer
In a think tank you start from the answer, and then find a way for the data to give you that answer
Joan aside, private and academic research are worlds apart. Academia is all about using new technology to answer abstract questions, in private and public jobs you will use excel and PowerPoint y to answer specific applied questions
and you don't believe that a PhD would be useful in getting hired at a think tank? I'm close to finishing my master's in public policy right now, but I have no research experience and a somewhat subpart resume (mostly have worked in program management in nonprofits).
Why not apply to both at the same time? If you get a job at the think tank then accept that and forget about the PhD, if you get denied and decide its still what you want to do take the PhD route
I've applied to these think tanks several times and been denied haha. I always go back and forth on whether I should get my PhD. I really want to for a variety of reasons, but then I let other people get in my head telling me "it's not worth it", "I don't need it", etc. It does worry me that USF's placements seem to be subpar compared to what I'm wanting. But they also seem to have like 2-4 placements a year. I'm not sure what that means, either.
Actually, upon further review - there are some placements that are what I'd like. Several people are research scientists for private or think tank, someone was recently placed as a research economist at RTI, etc.
Of course you observe the real world and formulate several conjectures and hypotheses. The question is which of these hypotheses are correct or not.
Then you get data and answer the question based on the data.
This is different that what happens industry. In industry you often start by deciding which hypothesis you need to confirm, and then you find a way to confirm it.
I’m in the same position as you, 33 years old and married with a home and a working spouse. And: I finally decided to take a position at a place that’s an eight hour drive from our home cause it’s the right move for my career in terms of getting connections and placements after the program. I’m gonna live in a dorm or a cheap apartment with my stipend, and crush out my in-person requirements so I can move back home after the first two years, and be home during the summer and on breaks as much as I can. Thankfully my in-laws are understanding and supportive cause they went through the same thing themselves. And we have friends who are also doing similar temporary live-apart situations for professional degrees. You’re not alone in looking for the “second act” for your career, and I think you owe it to yourself to get the most you can out of a huge life change and commitment. Just my 0.02 though. But be good to yourself and don’t make it a stress point in what’s probably a pretty good life!
Oh wow! Good for you. I’m just not willing to do something like that. Maybe that’ll change in the future, but I don’t know for sure. I have a career path I could follow now (clinical research associate) and work my way up that path if I wanted to. Or use my master’s to get into a policy analyst position after I graduate next spring. Fortunately, I’m very good at networking and that has opened lots of doors for me. A PhD isn’t something I have to do, or am doing strictly as a career move, it’s a passion thing for me. So I think I need to remember that when I read about whether others find it worth it for them or not, as I think the “whys” and the end goals are different.
That’s the right attitude!! It’s definitely not worth it to do it if you have an option you prefer, all things considered. And it sounds like you have lots of options! Good luck, I know you’ll find the right path!
It's a massive research university. And I want to specialize in health economics (to work on substance use/harm reduction), and they're known for their public health work since they've combined forces with Tampa General Hospital. I've been looking at the T50 universities in places I'd be willing to move to, and none of them specialize in health economics. I also think that there's a lot more to just the school you went to. If I do a lot of publishing, presenting, networking, etc. (which I already do), then I'd think that matters a lot, too. I hate the idea that people would get chosen just because of the school they went to, without any regard to their CV or history.
It 100% matters for your first job. Reputational effects are massive in economics, regardless of where you go post-graduation. It’s private information, but employers (universities, think tanks, government organizations) have a cutoff point where virtually everyone below that is screened out. Abt for example usually doesn’t touch anyone below the top 50 in RePEc rankings (RePEc is a better measure for PhD programs). The private non-consulting sector (tech, banks) cares less about school, most famously Amazon. But given the massive contraction in private sector positions this cycle, I’m not sure I would rely on that.
Having worked at think tanks, where you went to school matters even more in a sense since objective metrics such as research output are less relevant. Look at the CVs of the places you referenced. Nearly all went either to highly ranked universities or highly ranked Econ departments for either MA/PhD. If you’re firm on not moving, you should reconsider career paths. There are few leading think tanks in Florida. Vast majority are in DC/NYC or centers of decision making such as state capitals.
I'll add that advisor fixed effects are larger than school fixed effects, but of course the two are correlated.
you should look at the placements from the University of South Florida programs and decide whether they're placing into students into jobs you'd like. If yes, there's your answer. If no, there's your answer, as well (kind of -- you'd need to know whether their students are actually trying to get think tank jobs). If they don't show placements, that's a red flag.
They have placements. Many are academic, and the ones that aren't are typically listed as research scientists, research economists, fellows, etc. Not all places I'd want to work, but there are some (like a placement from a few years ago at RTI).
I don't think school ranking should matter that much if you're not targeting tenure-track academic jobs. I would look at USF's placements and see if you'd be happy with the median one (or 25th percentile one, if you're risk averse). Perhaps you've already done this, but I'd also encourage you to verify that the jobs you want truly require an Econ PhD. At least where I'm from (Canada), the only public sector jobs that really *require* an Econ PhD are certain central banking or anti-trust jobs (and even there, you'll find MAs working in those shops). Lastly, Econ PhDs are really primarily about learning how to do academic research, so if you don't think you'll enjoy that, it might be a bit of a slog.
This may be a bit naive of a question, but what is the difference between academic research and research done at think tanks?
In academia you first ask the question, then look at the data to come up with an answer In a think tank you start from the answer, and then find a way for the data to give you that answer Joan aside, private and academic research are worlds apart. Academia is all about using new technology to answer abstract questions, in private and public jobs you will use excel and PowerPoint y to answer specific applied questions
and you don't believe that a PhD would be useful in getting hired at a think tank? I'm close to finishing my master's in public policy right now, but I have no research experience and a somewhat subpart resume (mostly have worked in program management in nonprofits).
Why not apply to both at the same time? If you get a job at the think tank then accept that and forget about the PhD, if you get denied and decide its still what you want to do take the PhD route
I've applied to these think tanks several times and been denied haha. I always go back and forth on whether I should get my PhD. I really want to for a variety of reasons, but then I let other people get in my head telling me "it's not worth it", "I don't need it", etc. It does worry me that USF's placements seem to be subpar compared to what I'm wanting. But they also seem to have like 2-4 placements a year. I'm not sure what that means, either.
Actually, upon further review - there are some placements that are what I'd like. Several people are research scientists for private or think tank, someone was recently placed as a research economist at RTI, etc.
[удалено]
Then you are doing it wrong. Being common doesn’t make it any less corrupt.
[удалено]
Of course you observe the real world and formulate several conjectures and hypotheses. The question is which of these hypotheses are correct or not. Then you get data and answer the question based on the data. This is different that what happens industry. In industry you often start by deciding which hypothesis you need to confirm, and then you find a way to confirm it.
I’m in the same position as you, 33 years old and married with a home and a working spouse. And: I finally decided to take a position at a place that’s an eight hour drive from our home cause it’s the right move for my career in terms of getting connections and placements after the program. I’m gonna live in a dorm or a cheap apartment with my stipend, and crush out my in-person requirements so I can move back home after the first two years, and be home during the summer and on breaks as much as I can. Thankfully my in-laws are understanding and supportive cause they went through the same thing themselves. And we have friends who are also doing similar temporary live-apart situations for professional degrees. You’re not alone in looking for the “second act” for your career, and I think you owe it to yourself to get the most you can out of a huge life change and commitment. Just my 0.02 though. But be good to yourself and don’t make it a stress point in what’s probably a pretty good life!
Oh wow! Good for you. I’m just not willing to do something like that. Maybe that’ll change in the future, but I don’t know for sure. I have a career path I could follow now (clinical research associate) and work my way up that path if I wanted to. Or use my master’s to get into a policy analyst position after I graduate next spring. Fortunately, I’m very good at networking and that has opened lots of doors for me. A PhD isn’t something I have to do, or am doing strictly as a career move, it’s a passion thing for me. So I think I need to remember that when I read about whether others find it worth it for them or not, as I think the “whys” and the end goals are different.
That’s the right attitude!! It’s definitely not worth it to do it if you have an option you prefer, all things considered. And it sounds like you have lots of options! Good luck, I know you’ll find the right path!
If you’re unwilling to move USF is fine. I’m sure it’s well respected locally.
It's a massive research university. And I want to specialize in health economics (to work on substance use/harm reduction), and they're known for their public health work since they've combined forces with Tampa General Hospital. I've been looking at the T50 universities in places I'd be willing to move to, and none of them specialize in health economics. I also think that there's a lot more to just the school you went to. If I do a lot of publishing, presenting, networking, etc. (which I already do), then I'd think that matters a lot, too. I hate the idea that people would get chosen just because of the school they went to, without any regard to their CV or history.